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Ep 25. Michelle Mitchell OBE, CEO Cancer Research UK: Cancer care, COVID-19 and the power of collaboration
78 Plays3 years ago
“Leaders who can convene and collaborate are going to be best placed to navigate the challenges of the post-pandemic world… No one (single) person, no one organisation, in fact no one country can beat cancer... we go faster when we collaborate and partner.”
Michelle Mitchell epitomises her organisation’s strap-line: Together we will beat cancer.
Driven by an absolute determination to accelerate progress in cancer research, Michelle shares leadership insights and lessons learned from being CEO of this £600m organisation.
Being the world’s largest independent funder of cancer research, has not meant that Cancer Research UK has been immune to the effects of the pandemic. CRUK is predicting a £250m drop in income over the next 3 years, which will seriously impact their ambitions to enable 3 in 4 people to survive cancer by 2034.
We also talk about the impact the disruption of the past 18 months has had on the cancer community; and the importance of partnership, and the One Cancer Voice collaboration, in ensuring the continued delivery of world-class cancer services.
Recorded September 2021.
Guest Biography
Michelle Mitchell OBE is Cancer Research UK’s first female CEO. CRUK is the world's largest independent funder of cancer research. Michelle believes that by working together, and building the strongest possible team, we will beat cancer together. She is a member of the National Cancer Board, and has extensive non-executive experience, serving on the Boards of NHS England and The King’s Fund, a leading health policy think-tank. Before joining Cancer Research UK, Michelle was CEO of the MS Society for five years. Prior to that, she was Director General at Age UK, the UK’s largest older people’s charity. Michelle has a BA in Economics, an MA in Politics and Public Administration and an International Executive Diploma from INSEAD. Michelle was awarded an OBE in 2015 for services to the charity sector.
Links
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/
This episode is sponsored by EdenTree Investment Management
https://www.edentreeim.com/
Michelle Mitchell epitomises her organisation’s strap-line: Together we will beat cancer.
Driven by an absolute determination to accelerate progress in cancer research, Michelle shares leadership insights and lessons learned from being CEO of this £600m organisation.
Being the world’s largest independent funder of cancer research, has not meant that Cancer Research UK has been immune to the effects of the pandemic. CRUK is predicting a £250m drop in income over the next 3 years, which will seriously impact their ambitions to enable 3 in 4 people to survive cancer by 2034.
We also talk about the impact the disruption of the past 18 months has had on the cancer community; and the importance of partnership, and the One Cancer Voice collaboration, in ensuring the continued delivery of world-class cancer services.
Recorded September 2021.
Guest Biography
Michelle Mitchell OBE is Cancer Research UK’s first female CEO. CRUK is the world's largest independent funder of cancer research. Michelle believes that by working together, and building the strongest possible team, we will beat cancer together. She is a member of the National Cancer Board, and has extensive non-executive experience, serving on the Boards of NHS England and The King’s Fund, a leading health policy think-tank. Before joining Cancer Research UK, Michelle was CEO of the MS Society for five years. Prior to that, she was Director General at Age UK, the UK’s largest older people’s charity. Michelle has a BA in Economics, an MA in Politics and Public Administration and an International Executive Diploma from INSEAD. Michelle was awarded an OBE in 2015 for services to the charity sector.
Links
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/
This episode is sponsored by EdenTree Investment Management
https://www.edentreeim.com/
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Transcript
Leadership in the post-pandemic era
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Speaker
Convening and collaborating. I absolutely believe leaders who can convene and collaborate will be the ones best placed to navigate the challenges of the post pandemic world. We'll go faster when we collaborate and partner. And there's a mindset issue, which is you've got to believe no one person, no one organization, in fact, no one country
00:00:21
Speaker
can for us beat cancer, but it is often the case with a number of many other causes. So continuing to work closely and in collaboration is a lesson well-learned.
Introduction to Charity CEO podcast
00:00:41
Speaker
This is season three of the Charity CEO podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm Divya O'Connor, and I never imagined that this show that I started as an experiment during the pandemic would turn into a number one ranked global podcast with thousands of listeners all across the world. It is truly humbling to know that the show's content is valued by so many. And thanks to our Season 3 sponsor, Eden Tree, I will continue to bring you inspirational and engaging conversations with a host of leaders who are all truly driving change in the nonprofit space.
00:01:16
Speaker
Eden Tree themselves are owned by a charity and have led the way in responsible and sustainable investing for over three decades. Thank you to Eden Tree. Now, on with the show.
Leadership insights from Michelle Mitchell
00:01:29
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I am delighted to be speaking today with Michelle Mitchell, Chief Executive of Cancer Research UK. Cancer Research UK is the largest independent funder of cancer research in the world, with an ambition to enable three in four people to survive cancer by 2034.
00:01:46
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Driven by an absolute determination to accelerate progress in cancer research, Michelle shares key leadership insights and lessons learned from being at the helm of the £600m organisation. We talk about the impact of the pandemic on the cancer community
00:02:01
Speaker
and how taking early, decisive action has enabled CRUK to come through the past year and perform better than expected in the face of a colossal drop in income. We also talk about the One Cancer Voice collaboration and the importance of partnership in ensuring the delivery of world-class cancer services. I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
00:02:25
Speaker
Hi, Michelle. Welcome to the show. You are someone I wanted to have on as a guest ever since I launched the podcast. And so I'm really thrilled to be speaking with you today. It's very kind. I'm delighted to be with you. So you may be aware that the tradition is to start the show with an ice break around. And so I have five questions for you. And if you're ready, we can get started. Of course. Let's go for that. So question one, what was your first job? My first job?
00:02:53
Speaker
after university was working as a research assistant in Parliament. And question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? Determination. That's a good one.
00:03:07
Speaker
I nearly said patience, but I thought that's probably not that true. I'll go for determination instead. Well, I wonder if that would inform your answer to question three as well, because the next question is, what is something that you could not have survived the pandemic in the past 18 months without? A pair of trainers, which allowed me to go walking for miles, but also run, which I enjoy very much. Excellent. And they're very old and muddy trainers as well.
00:03:36
Speaker
Well, you certainly need determination to get out there on a cold, wet, windy day and go for a run. Question four. If you could wave a magic wand right now and change one thing in the world, what would that be? Cure tall cancers. Indeed. I thought you might say that. And our final icebreaker question.
Interview choice: Nelson Mandela
00:03:53
Speaker
If you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? Nelson Mandela.
00:04:02
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and what gave him the belief and power to lead.
00:04:09
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with such strong direction and dignity.
CRUK's survival rate goals by 2034
00:04:12
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Yes, he would absolutely be my choice as well. And so, Michelle, thank you again for coming on the show. You are the chief executive of one of the UK's largest charities, Cancer Research UK. Now, I doubt that there are many of our listeners who are not aware of your organisation and its work, but I'd like to start off hearing about CRUK's vision and mission and particularly your work to drive up survival rates and your ambition
00:04:36
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to enable three in four people to survive cancer by 2034. So Cancer Research UK in its different guises is nearly 100 years old and we're approaching our 20th anniversary as the merge charities next year and throughout that 100 year history what's been at the heart of our mission and vision is to see a world one day when all cancer secured and until we
00:05:04
Speaker
get to that through the power of research and science until we get to that to see improvements in the prevention, treatment and diagnosis of cancer. And one of our goals has been since 2014 to see cancer survival improved to three and four people surviving over 10 years by 2034 here in the UK. And that would be a significant improvement in cancer survival. And of course, cancer is an issue that affects
00:05:32
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so many of us, so many of our friends and family that I think that's a mission that many people clearly support and believe in and it's because of that support and belief that we are able to be
00:05:46
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the largest independent funder of cancer research in the world. And we currently fund over 50% of all publicly funded cancer research in the UK today.
Impact of the pandemic on cancer services
00:05:56
Speaker
So we are all very aware that the pandemic and the past 18 months has had a huge toll on
00:06:03
Speaker
cancer patients and cancer care. In fact, I think I've heard it said that cancer patients are the forgotten casualties of the COVID-19 pandemic. Can you tell us about the current status and state of cancer care in the UK, including particularly for those who are potentially undiagnosed? That's such an important question. I mean, you're absolutely right. The pandemic has had a devastating impact on cancer services.
00:06:27
Speaker
And to be honest, we may never know the full toll of it, but we do know there are still thousands, tens of thousands, in fact, of people left undiagnosed or waiting for tests. So it's vital that they get the care they need as quickly as possible. And to give you a sense of the scale of that, we estimate that nearly 45,000 fewer patients started treatment for cancer in the UK in April 2020 to March 2021.
00:06:56
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compared to the same time pre-pandemic, 45,000 for your patients. That's a reduction of 13%. And while this figure looks specifically at treatment, it's largely driven by a drop in the number of people who were diagnosed with cancer during this period. And we saw that there was a small decrease, about 1% in the number of patients starting cancer treatments in England in June, 2021 compared to, for example, 2019.
00:07:26
Speaker
So what that indicates is the services are continuing to recover, as we've seen in recent months, but we have to go way beyond pre-pandemic levels of services if we're going to meet some of those big survival ambitions that we have.
00:07:42
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Yes, and indeed to catch up because surely this has actually put back a lot of the research and progress that has been made over the years. Absolutely. I think it's a very worrying time for people with cancer. What I've talked about there is the treatment and some of the incidents of cancer, but we also face some other particular issues and just would refer to two. One is
00:08:07
Speaker
We're seeing at the moment six to eight times more patients waiting for six or more weeks for diagnostic tests. And these are key diagnostic tests in England. Numbers of patients waiting six plus weeks have generally been improving since January 2021, but numbers on the overall weightiness have remained high and particularly worried about endoscopy, which is relatively more impacted than radiology.
00:08:32
Speaker
The other issue to flag is really around people's patient experience. So you can hear all these numbers and understand the scale of the problem, but you've got to understand the experience people are having as well. And almost a third of cancer patients have reported receiving worse care since COVID-19 began and about 29% experienced delays, cancellations or changes to their treatment.
00:08:59
Speaker
What we've seen is some big challenges. COVID hit hard during the early stages of cancer referrals and treatments. Cancer services are coming back, but we face a big backlog of these missing patients. And we know that in the UK, our survival rates are pretty poor compared to comparable countries. Only 55% of people are diagnosed at stage one and two of cancer.
00:09:27
Speaker
We know that if we're going to see a big stage shift in cancer diagnosis, then we have to detect cancers earlier. People need to come forward with signs and symptoms and absolutely critically, government needs to resource properly the health service and cancer services within that because at the moment, what is clear is we do not have the kit.
00:09:49
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nor the workforce to ensure that those essential ingredients are in place to improve cancer survival. So yes I did actually just want to ask you about what government can do to remedy the situation.
Call for government investment in cancer care
00:10:03
Speaker
What more would you like to see from government? Well as you'll know we're rapidly approaching the comprehensive spending review and it's very clear the message we're sending to government at the moment that to meet its
00:10:17
Speaker
commitments around improved cancer survival, then it absolutely has to put more money into the recovery of cancer services and it has to invest significantly in a cancer workforce and the diagnostics and kit that we need to ensure people are diagnosed early, referred quickly.
00:10:39
Speaker
and cancer survival improved. So very, very clear message of action needed from government very quickly.
Collaboration with charities for cancer services
00:10:46
Speaker
So I know from my conversations with many charity CEOs that collaboration has been hugely valuable and impactful this past year. And that a little while ago, Cancer Research UK joined forces with 60 other cancer charities to form the One Cancer Voice collaboration. Tell us what you hope to achieve through this coming together and what its impact has been to date.
00:11:08
Speaker
Collaboration is so critical, I think, for all charities, big, small and medium sized, because together we can achieve much more than we can on our own. And in March 2021, we joined with 46 charities. It's gone up now to nearly 60, our cancer charities, to speak with
00:11:29
Speaker
one cancer voice on what we need from government and the NHS to not only plan the route out of the pandemic, but also a very positive vision about what's needed for world leading cancer services. So we've combined our efforts. We produce joint evidence, policy recommendations. We influence the senior government figures and the NHS on our common priorities. And of course it is speaking with that voice.
00:11:56
Speaker
that one voice that can make a difference and amplify all of our messages. And critically, we work very hard to ensure that the experiences of people with cancer are a central part of that story and those recommendations too. At the moment, we're now formalizing the group and we're working together
00:12:15
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to brief our concerns about the lack of detail on plans to build and support the NHS workforce in the health and care bill and we're joining work together on influencing the comprehensive spending review. I'm really pleased about how that's going. Excellent, really pleased to hear about the progress that you're making there.
Adapting strategies during income drops
00:12:36
Speaker
So, Michelle, I'd like to come on now to talk about more specifically how Cancer Research UK has fared as an organisation during the pandemic. I know that you achieved a better than expected income for this past year, but that you are still predicting a drop in income of about 250 million over three years. So tell us about the impact that this has had on your organisation and will have on research and outcomes for cancer patients.
00:13:02
Speaker
Well, goodness me, hasn't it been more than a year now for us all or in our personal lives, in the charities that we lead and critically for the people we're here to serve and like most charities, Cancer Research UK was hard hit by Covid-19. Almost every way we raise money to fund our research was impacted in 2020 and particularly for us with our shops being temporary closed and our events being cancelled.
00:13:31
Speaker
we had to do was take immediate and really quite difficult emergency measures at the start of the pandemic and in large part that was to ensure our financial stability. I had to make decisions around temporarily moving all of our staff to 80% pay, furloughing 60% staff and cutting 44 million from our research budget immediately. And I suppose when I look back and reflect on that time now I think what it did that was very quick
00:14:01
Speaker
early actions, was brought us time to set out an ambitious but realistic three-year plan to rebuild and adapt to the changed world before us. And I think from my perspective, the hope was the plan would see us emerge from the pandemic, a more streamlined charity, but in a good position to adapt to the changed world and return to year-on-year growth in fundraising. We're predicting by 2022-23,
00:14:31
Speaker
And in that plan, you know, I had learned how we would be incredibly focused, greater emphasis on investing strategically for the future while contracting in a number of areas during this period of continued financial uncertainty. And to give you a sense of some of those areas we invested in digital transformation,
00:14:51
Speaker
Reaching out to our philanthropists and individuals and organisations all around the world, we're investing heavily in developing really personalised, supported journeys and of course a critical focus on workplace culture. I've put EDI at the fore of our workplace culture as well as flexible working, but we did have to make
00:15:12
Speaker
major changes to how we work. And we had to make some really difficult cuts to our teams and our research. And that's terribly hard to be honest, because we do fantastic work. Our people are fantastic. And it was so hard to cut that, but we did. And it has been challenging. I am, we don't take the decisions about redundancy lightly. We did have to make considerable redundancies and reduction in staffing.
00:15:38
Speaker
But we are only able to achieve our mission. I think really thanks to the hard work and dedication of our incredible staff. So it was really hard to see so many of them leave. But now we're nearing the half point of this rebuilding. And I think so far we've not only kept pace with these ambitious plans, we have
00:15:57
Speaker
outperformed them. And again, thanks to the agility, the unity and the collective strength displayed by our staff, our supporters and our volunteers throughout this time. And as you said, for us, we did perform better than anticipated in 2020 and 2021, raising a total of over 582 million, but that was £74 million less than the previous year.
00:16:22
Speaker
We were expecting to give you a set of the scale of the financial impact, a drop of income of 300 million over three years. We think now clear impact of the pandemic or forecasts are saying it will be about 250 million reduction in income for us. So it still has an impact and that impact is being felt today and will be felt in the next couple of years for us.
00:16:47
Speaker
If we do better than expected, though, and I'm ever the optimist, always a glass half full, we will ensure that that money now over and above that budget position will go into protecting our life-saving research. It means we can give our researchers the breathing space to do what they do best, which is disrupting the status quo.
00:17:06
Speaker
innovating and accelerating progress against our mission. Yes, it's been such a difficult time for the entire sector. I think I saw some recent statistics to say that actually job reductions are to the tune of 60,000 plus jobs that have been reduced in terms of workforce reductions and redundancies. And I do wonder how some of those people we are going to be able to bring back into the sector in the future, given the knowledge and expertise.
00:17:36
Speaker
But Michelle, as we are looking to come out of the pandemic, do you have any advice for charity leaders on how we can look to rebuild a better future for our organisations and for the communities that we all serve?
Lessons learned for future challenges
00:17:51
Speaker
Well, I talk about potentially leadership lessons and then our priorities for the future. And I think that might answer partway that question. Yes, go ahead. And I think for me, from a personal level, some of the things I learned, I think are lessons which will apply in an ongoing way. One of them was during Covid, we absolutely had to make decisions quickly.
00:18:13
Speaker
on our strategy plan and budget and we weren't afraid to be bold. So I think moving quickly, developing the measures and the plans that you need to have with PACE is something we should carry on doing. Sometimes confronting controversial or difficult decisions is the thing to do and not to put them off. I think that was very important. Setting very clear objectives right throughout the pandemic
00:18:38
Speaker
We set five really clear objectives, keeping our staff and volunteers safe, supporting people with cancer, supporting the COVID-19 effort, minimising the impact on our research and ensuring we stayed financially viable. And those objectives really helped us to guide our decisions through what was quite a tumultuous period. And my leadership team and I have referred back to them at every key point.
00:19:06
Speaker
So, you know, again, clarity of objectives is critical. And to pick up one of the points you raised earlier, collaboration and absolutely sharing our learning along the way. I can't overemphasize the importance of knowing who your friends are, not just in a time of crisis. We found out that we had many dear friends and supporters or supporters who kept on giving through the crisis. Our network of expert advisors, philanthropic supporters, partners who gave their time
00:19:35
Speaker
and pro bono resource to help shape our response to the pandemic. My chair and board of trustees were absolutely fantastic. I mean, I couldn't have wished for greater support and challenge, but predominantly support. They gave immense time, effort, and it very much felt like a team endeavor. And critically, the network of charity CEOs
00:19:59
Speaker
We kept really closely communicating, sharing ideas, sharing responses, supporting each other within the cancer sector, but much more broadly. And I think that network of charity CEOs as a peer group, a source of ideas and support had proved very, very valuable. And I think all of these networks, which I stayed very connected to during COVID,
00:20:25
Speaker
Perhaps more so than you would in brackets normal times, they fed into our response helped informed what we were doing, and I'm very grateful for that and I think they're really important leadership lessons for the future.
Focus on research and digital transformation
00:20:37
Speaker
Now, in response to the questions about prioritization and what does the future holder.
00:20:43
Speaker
I think for us, we'll be really focusing on a number of key areas. Just over the summer now, we are an early autumn developing our 10 year strategy. What's likely to be in there is up for debate at the moment, but I'm sure we will continue to focus on maximising our research impact. We have to continue to be ambitious and innovative, supporting the best cancer research at scale and partnering with organisations around the world,
00:21:13
Speaker
critically to drive innovation, remain focused on influencing cancer services and research, not only just the recovery of cancer services and clinical research in the wake of COVID-19, but absolutely ensuring we have world-class services with significantly improved cancer survival. But we have to reposition for growth. We've talked a lot about the impact of drops in income and COVID on charities.
00:21:39
Speaker
I think considering deeply how we shape our fundraising portfolio and drive philanthropic giving, not only to return to sustainable growth by 22, 23, but in a much longer scale as a subject of a lot of debate. And of course, we won't be able to do that, especially in reaching our beneficiaries through really personalised journeys and our supporters through really personalised journeys and content, unless we make
00:22:08
Speaker
much better use of digital technology to support our relationships, make it simpler and easier, more convenient to deal with us online. And I think some of those areas of top of mind, of course, we are all continuing to reshape our operating models and reduce costs, getting the absolute most from our spending, reducing our costs, improving our ability to respond to changes in our environment. And another element that has been
00:22:38
Speaker
important during COVID, which will only increase in importance as we come out of it, is strengthening our relationships, whether that's with supporters, researchers, staff, volunteers, partners, and others with a focus on engagement, equality, diversity, inclusion. I think deep relationships are going to be incredibly valuable to us all in the future.
00:23:03
Speaker
Great, thank you. I'd like to talk a little bit more about priorities for the future, especially with regards to the new partnerships that you have with the US National Cancer Institute. But before we do that, Michelle, I'd like to just go back to some of your reflections with respect to the pandemic on two specific things.
Reflecting on pandemic response
00:23:23
Speaker
One, and I appreciate this is a little bit of a crystal ball question, but I'm curious to know that looking back on the past 12 to 18 months and given what you now know, might you have done something differently at the beginning of the pandemic? And also given that your fundraising and income actually achieved better results than expected, what you think are some of the key things that worked well in those plans?
00:23:49
Speaker
Isn't it the case that people often say having done a job for 10 years at the point of retirement, they know exactly how to do the job. So, you know, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'd say a couple of things that prove to be very important for us is convening and collaborating. I absolutely believe leaders who can convene and collaborate will be the ones best placed to navigate the challenges of the post pandemic world. We'll go faster when we collaborate and partner.
00:24:17
Speaker
And there's a mindset issue, which is you've got to believe no one person, no one organization, in fact, no one country can for us beat cancer. But it is often the case with a number of many other causes. So continuing to work closely and in collaboration is a lesson well-learned.
Global partnership with US National Cancer Institute
00:24:37
Speaker
For us, and it partly refers to your point about National Cancer Institute, what became very clear
00:24:43
Speaker
is that it's really important for us to increase our global footprint. I'll say a little bit more. I mean, medical research charities play an absolutely essential role in cementing the UK's ambition to be a global scientific superpower, which is, I suppose, now at risk as a result of the pandemic because of the huge financial challenges medical research charities face as a result of it. But we've got to increase cross-collaboration and knowledge sharing between
00:25:13
Speaker
the UK and world leading global institutes and industry. And that's why we launched the Cancer Grand Challenge, a globally funded research platform founded by CLUK and the US National Cancer Institute, granting multidisciplinary research teams across the globe up to 20 million over five years to tackle some of the biggest, toughest questions in cancer research at scale. And so for us, partnership
00:25:41
Speaker
and increasing our global footprint was a way of improving our impact at a difficult time. So looking at global, looking at partnership to continue to make impact has been important for us and stripping back bureaucracy. Have you been able to achieve that? Yes, actually, absolutely. What we learned was what we thought the risks weren't and we hadn't really identified
00:26:09
Speaker
some of the risks that came our way and we were compelled to trust people to operate and allow for incredibly rapid decision making to adapt in a changing world. And we did, we, we really changed every level from our trustee board to the executive board, to the leadership team, how we worked. And that was stripping back bureaucracy. It was getting the right people in the room.
00:26:36
Speaker
being comfortable and comfortable about what you know and don't know and making decisions based on the best knowledge you have there at the time.
Embracing change and impact post-pandemic
00:26:43
Speaker
And we've kept a lot of that, you know, and I'm desperately keen not to go back to the way things were before, because I think we know that organizations, businesses, charities, those that will succeed are those that are absolutely unafraid of change who will make tough choices, difficult decisions,
00:27:02
Speaker
And you got to adapt quickly and seize the opportunities before you. And I think there are many, many opportunities for the sector. We've also seen COVID-19 has greatly accelerated many trends that were already in evidence before, perhaps we'd not responded to them as quickly as we should have, could have, for all sorts of reasons, online fundraising and virtual events have been a really big success for us during COVID. And I think
00:27:33
Speaker
On a more positive note, the pandemic has provided an opportunity for us to refocus our efforts. Supporters, corporate partners, philanthropists, governments, cancer patients and their families, they expect us to drive impact, be transparent about how we're doing that and how we're spending our money, differentiate ourselves in a crowded market. And ultimately, we don't have a right to exist.
00:28:02
Speaker
that continuous resolute focus on impact is critical. And I think the final thing I would say is we've had to, and it has been right that we have done so, provide much greater support to our staff. Goodness me, the world's changed, right? And I think the sector needs to adapt its approach to support wellbeing, retaining talent, and of course, removing those big barriers to progression.
00:28:29
Speaker
We had to do a major restructuring programme, sadly, but we provided
Supporting staff with flexible work options
00:28:34
Speaker
quite considerable support and engagement with our staff right throughout this process and did a number of things which I'm sure many others would have done in proving
00:28:45
Speaker
that mental wellbeing support offer a good employee assistance program consistently communicating our leadership priorities and reassessing the resources we had available. But we also did things like celebration and reflection events where people spoke openly about what they were feeling, the good, the bad, and everything else in between. And that proved to be a really useful release.
00:29:11
Speaker
We operated something called best endeavors during lockdown where we asked those with caring responsibilities just to do the best they could with no minimum hours required. So, you know, people were asked to use their common sense and adapt according to their circumstances. And finally, we did a big change in policy around flexible working at CRUK. So to provide people with much greater choice about where and when they work and this approach
00:29:40
Speaker
kind of recognise the importance of choice and it's just about working from home. It provides many options for our staff to consider including part-time work, job shares, compressed hours and continuously ongoing issues about workload and prioritisation which we know is often a challenge in the sector and our staff and volunteers have been amazing. So I would say in conclusion there are a couple of things here aren't there is
00:30:05
Speaker
Convening collaborate, be bold during a crisis as we look to the future and there may be opportunities globally and through partnership which help you go faster, strip back the bureaucracy and keep on
00:30:18
Speaker
focusing, focusing, focusing on your people. I really like what you said there in terms of continuing a resolute focus on impact as well has really been key to surviving and thriving through the pandemic, as well as really focusing on people and your best endeavors program. It sounds really bold and refreshing, if I may say so. Could I just say, and of course you trust people,
00:30:47
Speaker
And we have amazing staff and volunteers. And my goodness me, the discretionary effort people have given and continue to give to help us drive impact and achieve our mission is so admirable. And, you know, at the heart of this is trust, isn't it? It's having an interesting relationship with your people and we couldn't wish for more from our people. I mean, we have highly motivated, highly educated, mission driven staff.
00:31:15
Speaker
And I'm really pleased we're experimenting with some new ways of working. You're absolutely right. But as you say, it's not an ending of itself. It's building a people and a culture that enables us to achieve our mission quicker and accelerate progress. That's why we're doing it. And we won't get everything right.
00:31:34
Speaker
our stuff team will tell you if we don't get things right, they're not shy. But we're giving it a go and we're trying new things and some stuff will work and some won't and we're quite relaxed about that. Yes, absolutely. As you said then, Michelle, trust is really central to organisations being able to achieve their impact and their mission
00:31:54
Speaker
And indeed, the concept of trust is really central to the reality of hybrid or flexible working that indeed all organisations, I think not just across the sector, but across the world are currently grappling with.
Hybrid working and office culture
00:32:09
Speaker
And with an organisation as large as Cancer Research UK,
00:32:13
Speaker
I'm interested to hear, Michelle, some of the challenges that you have faced with regards to moving to this model of a hybrid or flexible workforce and workspace, as well as some of the things that have worked well. You already mentioned a few there, but as you look to move to the future and perhaps put some permanency around some of these measures, tell us about your thinking there. We on one level were pretty well prepared.
00:32:39
Speaker
to move to home working for most staff immediately, particularly those based in London, because prior to the lockdown, there was a very thorough plan in place to move from Angel to Stratford. And so we'd done a big piece of work on collaborative working, hybrid working, and had already prepared for not just an office move, but the beginnings of a change in how we work together. And so on one level, that immediate move to home working was
00:33:09
Speaker
a huge amount of work, I can't tell you, not least from our tech team, huge amount of work, but we did it quickly and successfully. What we've learned to do over the different cycles of lockdown is adapt and change. I mentioned some of the importance of engagement and communication. I mean, we've never engaged and communicated more with our people than during the last 14 months or so.
00:33:35
Speaker
absolutely stating with great honesty and transparency actually, the issues and challenges that we're facing, the options and choices and the decisions that are going to be made, including many open sessions with staff.
00:33:48
Speaker
to answer questions on a whole variety of areas. Again, in a very open way, building a culture where people can speak up and out on issues. Lots of staff also focused on engaging people socially, the lunch clubs and the book clubs going online and all of that. I think what we decided to do several months ago was to actually formally update our approach to flexible working because I think we were seeing this not just as an issue,
00:34:18
Speaker
to respond to during COVID and best endeavors and all of that. But to actually say, look, we believe increased flexibility is how we need to work in the future. When and where people work is important to support wellbeing, it's really important to keep pace with how the world is changing. And we all know keeping and attracting best talent is really hard.
00:34:42
Speaker
So we put in place a new approach already. We've changed our policy and we set an expectation that the vast majority of people come into the office maybe once, twice a week, not yet. People are still largely working from home. And it's not just about working from home. So as I said, part-time working, job share, compressed hours are all part of that change for us. Now, what we need to do above and beyond creating a better work-life balance, because I do believe that will help
00:35:12
Speaker
deliver our mission is for the next phase, we have to define what good looks like for us, what is the culture as we hopefully come out of COVID, as we adapt to hybrid working, where we reap the value and the benefits of face to face and keep the value and benefits of flexible working and people working from home and
00:35:34
Speaker
We'll do that as we've done with most other areas of big internal change by really engaging our people, getting insight, understanding what others are doing. And then we are building that plan for us as we speak at the moment. And again, I'm sure there'll be things that work, things that don't, but as a team, we'll do that together. We're not going to go fully remote. I mean, I think we really feel face-to-face interaction remains a really critical
00:35:59
Speaker
part of our work environment. It will help us thrive at CLUK and our workplace and spaces will remain
00:36:08
Speaker
places staff can come together, collaborate and build culture. That's one of our challenges at the moment, actually. Yes, I agree with you that the face-to-face interaction element is something actually that's really important and indeed valued by a lot of staff and is important for staff morale and wellbeing. Well, this would have been nice to do face-to-face, wouldn't it? I know, rather than on Zoom.
00:36:32
Speaker
And talking a little bit more, Michelle, now about leadership, I'd love to hear more about your own background and your career journey.
Michelle's career journey
00:36:40
Speaker
So how have you gotten to where you are today as the CEO of Cancer Research UK? Where should I start? So a little bit about me. I grew up on Merseyside. That's near Liverpool for those of you who are not from the Northwest during the 80s. And it, you know, it was quite a difficult period. It was a period of quite significant economic decline.
00:37:02
Speaker
I grew up in an area which was afflicted with quite high unemployment. But personally, I had a very loving family, a very happy childhood. Came from a close community, still in touch with many of my friends from infant school, which is always interesting. But I spent most of my childhood dreaming of getting a perfect 10 in gymnastics, not becoming the CEO of CRUK. That wasn't what I was thinking about in my younger years. And I was the first in my family to go to university.
00:37:32
Speaker
did the great trip of 36 miles from Merseyside to Manchester and studied economics at Manchester. And from there, having grown up with quite a sense of, probably at a young age, a sense of injustice, whether it's at the bottom of your street or around the world, I've always felt quite passionate about doing something about the issues that matter to me. And they are many. I've got many, many things I have an interest in.
00:38:00
Speaker
I first worked in parliament as a research assistant when I left university and studied at that time to do an MSc in public administration. But thought after that experience, which was very interesting, actually, for me, the way in which I feel I can contribute most, how I can affect changes through working for and with charities. And I've had the great privilege now
00:38:28
Speaker
over a number of years to have served as a non-exec or trustee on many charities small and large and public bodies and also led a number of charities. Obviously Cancer Research UK now previously I was the chief executive of
00:38:47
Speaker
MS Society and we saw significant progress critically improving access to effective treatments for people with MS from about 40% to 58% and that was the charity's number one impact goal. Before that I was the Director General at A2K and oh gosh there were many an issue there the biggies you know pension of poverty, age discrimination, malnutrition of older people and of course the old chestnut for
00:39:14
Speaker
charity sector social care and it seems we're still having many of the same debates there that we had over 10 years ago and also amongst other things started my trusteeship experience in my early 20s when I was chair of the Fawcett Society. So I've had many different opportunities there just a couple of them in the charity sector but really happy to talk with many of the others as well if that's helpful.
00:39:41
Speaker
But also on a non-exec experience, and I think this is being important for my own personal career development, is a non-exec director on the board of NHS England, been on the board of the King's Fund, set up Para to Change Trust funded by the Big Lottery to set up a grant-giving fund for community-owned businesses. And I've felt I've been able to develop
00:40:07
Speaker
my experience, my knowledge, my networks through a combination of trusteeship and executive roles and I've really enjoyed doing both and of course all of that experience came to the fore not only in leading CRUK but also critically during the response to Covid
00:40:31
Speaker
all CEOs would say this. It's been one of the most challenging periods of my career. And looking back, Michelle, on that incredible journey, getting a perfect 10 in gymnastics notwithstanding, what advice would you give? I didn't get one. What I said was
00:40:48
Speaker
I dreamt of getting one. I was never near a perfect turn. I still occasionally dream of getting a perfect turn, but the mind is willing, the body less so. We all need those dreams to pull us through, but I'm curious to hear what advice you might give to yourself on day one of becoming a CEO looking back.
Advice for new CEOs
00:41:07
Speaker
What advice would I give? I would say you have to follow what you're interested in.
00:41:18
Speaker
And you have to really think about what is the job and the type of leadership your charity needs of you at this time for it to be successful. I think that's really, really important for a CEO because it's a combination, isn't it, of those two things is all the skills and experience, your vision and the direction you would wish to set with your colleagues.
00:41:47
Speaker
But it's also what the charity needs of you at a certain time that can often differ depending on the external environment, your financial position, how you believe you could have the biggest impact. And I think those are two really important considerations. And the other, I mean, especially for women who have spoken to me about these issues, I mean, I do a lot of
00:42:10
Speaker
I wouldn't go so far to say coaching or mentoring but I certainly support and encourage lots of leaders in the sector or those that are stepping into their first leadership positions and I think for a number of
00:42:23
Speaker
women leaders, you've got the job because you're the best person to do the job and have real confidence in that, I think. And talking about your interests, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what really motivates and drives you every day and given the huge responsibilities of your role, what is your go-to with respect to self-care and your own personal wellbeing?
Balancing responsibilities and wellbeing
00:42:44
Speaker
And you mentioned earlier about like running
00:42:46
Speaker
I mean, how do you carve out the time for yourself and how do you manage that very fine balancing act on the gymnastics beam in your life? I've had to develop an interest in cricket, as my son's interested in cricket as developed. My googly has improved with age as he's brought a bit older. I do take joy in things I sometimes am not that interested in. It's all quite flexible, but I suppose my big motivations are like so many people. I mean, my life has
00:43:16
Speaker
being changed by cancer. I saw my mother and nurse, her sisters, my aunties, who went on to die of cancer. And not just the immediate impact of cancer on them, but the way it affects and changes people. And I think what drives me is an absolute determination to accelerate progress in cancer research. And for me, and this goes back to the point of feeling a little bit of injustice. I mean, I'm not satisfied with what's happening today.
00:43:46
Speaker
I'm not satisfied that we have some of the poorest survival rates in comparable countries behind Australia, Canada, Denmark, in some instances, Ireland. It's not good enough, really isn't good enough. So that motivation inspires me. I also think it's an absolute privilege to lead. It is a privilege to do this role. And I spend a lot of time, less so face to face in the last 14 months or so,
00:44:14
Speaker
but certainly online and always as soon as we can get back out there properly and it's safe to do so. Talking to all of our communities, the people who've volunteered for us for 45 years in a shop or the person who's run the 40th Race for Life or someone who's very kindly left money in their wheels or the big corporate partnerships we have and how those are not only increasing in generation but improving
00:44:43
Speaker
health, the scientists that we fund to do world-class research, and all of those people are contributing to our cause. So I feel I'm part of a team of brilliant people who bring very different skills, very different perspectives, but ultimately it's that diversity and that collaboration of people from all walks of life united by a belief that
00:45:12
Speaker
it is only through research that we will really make great progress and save lives. And I want to do the very, very best I can in honor of that, to be honest. I mean, I think it's such a privilege. And personally, who wouldn't want to work with some of the best minds in the world to tackle one of the biggest social challenges we face? And the charity sector is an
00:45:37
Speaker
absolutely brilliant place to be and to lead if you fundamentally believe in social change.
Diversity and collaboration in the charity sector
00:45:45
Speaker
The UK charity sector as a whole shares a focus and an energy which keeps me absolutely passionate about my work every single day. I think its strength comes from its diversity but no one organisation can achieve its aims alone so we keep working together and learning from each other and on a personal self-care
00:46:07
Speaker
perspective, I have taken the time. I think it's so important to be with my children and my husband and enjoy their lives and their interests and listen and learn from their perspectives. Gosh, they've got opinions on everything, but that's supposed to be expected having me as a mother. Sport is very important exercise, running, walking, got a little rowing machine I use at home, yoga, all of that.
00:46:37
Speaker
I do and make the time to do it. It gives energy rather than takes away energy and to lock down, you know, those podcasts and those long walks and rediscover the love of reading again and.
00:46:51
Speaker
cooking and oh I have many ways I could occupy my time with more interest than I have time to spend on them but yes I do keep a balance. Well I hope you are an avid listener of the Charity CEO podcast Michelle and I absolutely agree with you that being a leader in the charity sector is an absolute privilege
00:47:11
Speaker
and thank you for giving your time so generously today and it's been such an insightful discussion and in closing now, Michelle, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation?
Inspiration within the charity sector
00:47:27
Speaker
I would say each and every one of us has the power to change the world and there's no better place in the charity sector to do that.
00:47:35
Speaker
Well, thank you, Michelle. And on that inspirational note, I will bring us to a close. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much.
00:47:47
Speaker
What a privilege it was to speak with Michelle Mitchell, CEO of Cancer Research UK. I love what she said about how being dissatisfied with progress is what drives her to push herself and the organisation to be even better. And how dreaming of that perfect 10 in gymnastics has given her the determination to succeed.
00:48:08
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Charity CEO podcast. A show that, thanks to you, our listeners, has repeatedly reached the number one spot in Apple's non-profit podcast category. If you found this conversation valuable, please help spread the word. Share or tag us on Twitter or LinkedIn or Instagram, and make sure you subscribe to the show by clicking the subscribe button on your podcast app.
00:48:30
Speaker
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