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Ep 9. Julie Bentley, CEO Samaritans: Learning, Leadership and Listening
102 Plays4 years ago
“You don't need to have all the answers, you don't need to have solutions... you just need to be able to listen.”
Julie Bentley is CEO of Samaritans, the suicide prevention charity.
In this episode Julie shares life and leadership lessons, from being a post-lady early in her career, to how she grappled with the gremlins of Imposter Syndrome. She highlights key qualities of leadership: emotional intelligence, authenticity, resilience, humility, kindness, vulnerability and humour! - all of which she believes have been important through her own leadership journey.
We talk about the work of Samaritans: providing a place where someone is always available to listen, without judgement.
The Samaritans’ service delivery model is unique, as it is entirely volunteer run. With a vision of ensuring that fewer people die by suicide, Samaritans has over 17,000 trained ‘listening volunteers’ who respond to calls for help. Currently 1 in 5 callers to Samaritans are voicing concerns about the impact of COVID-19, indicating a significant risk to mental health from the pandemic.
We discuss Brew Monday, turning the third Monday in January (traditionally known as Blue Monday) into a campaign aimed at encouraging people to stay connected with a virtual cup of tea; particularly important as the UK is now in its 3rd full lockdown nationwide. #BrewMonday
Julie also opens her heart about her brother Roy’s, death and talks about co-curating the book ‘Sisters and Brothers’, breaking taboos around talking about death, dying and bereavement.
This is a poignant, moving and inspirational start to our second Season.
Recorded December 2020.
Guest Biography
Julie Bentley has been a charity CEO for over 18 years and has led some of the UK’s most well-known charities including Action for Children, Girlguiding, Family Planning Association and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust. Julie joined Samaritans as CEO in November 2020. She is currently also Vice Chair of NCVO (National Council of Voluntary Organisations).
Julie is a passionate advocate for the voices of those with lived experience being at the heart of a charity. She has a reputation for driving change and for the authenticity she brings to her leadership.
In 2014, she was named as Third Sector’s ‘Most Admired Charity CEO’ and appeared on BBC Radio 4’s Desert Island Discs. In 2019, she received The Charity Times Award for ‘Outstanding Individual Achievement’ and was voted one of the sector’s ‘Most Influential Leaders’.
Links
www.samaritans.org
www.samaritans.org/support-us/campaign/brew-monday
www.cruse.org.uk
Buy ‘Sisters and Brothers: Stories about the death of a sibling’ book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3obuEGw
Julie Bentley is CEO of Samaritans, the suicide prevention charity.
In this episode Julie shares life and leadership lessons, from being a post-lady early in her career, to how she grappled with the gremlins of Imposter Syndrome. She highlights key qualities of leadership: emotional intelligence, authenticity, resilience, humility, kindness, vulnerability and humour! - all of which she believes have been important through her own leadership journey.
We talk about the work of Samaritans: providing a place where someone is always available to listen, without judgement.
The Samaritans’ service delivery model is unique, as it is entirely volunteer run. With a vision of ensuring that fewer people die by suicide, Samaritans has over 17,000 trained ‘listening volunteers’ who respond to calls for help. Currently 1 in 5 callers to Samaritans are voicing concerns about the impact of COVID-19, indicating a significant risk to mental health from the pandemic.
We discuss Brew Monday, turning the third Monday in January (traditionally known as Blue Monday) into a campaign aimed at encouraging people to stay connected with a virtual cup of tea; particularly important as the UK is now in its 3rd full lockdown nationwide. #BrewMonday
Julie also opens her heart about her brother Roy’s, death and talks about co-curating the book ‘Sisters and Brothers’, breaking taboos around talking about death, dying and bereavement.
This is a poignant, moving and inspirational start to our second Season.
Recorded December 2020.
Guest Biography
Julie Bentley has been a charity CEO for over 18 years and has led some of the UK’s most well-known charities including Action for Children, Girlguiding, Family Planning Association and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust. Julie joined Samaritans as CEO in November 2020. She is currently also Vice Chair of NCVO (National Council of Voluntary Organisations).
Julie is a passionate advocate for the voices of those with lived experience being at the heart of a charity. She has a reputation for driving change and for the authenticity she brings to her leadership.
In 2014, she was named as Third Sector’s ‘Most Admired Charity CEO’ and appeared on BBC Radio 4’s Desert Island Discs. In 2019, she received The Charity Times Award for ‘Outstanding Individual Achievement’ and was voted one of the sector’s ‘Most Influential Leaders’.
Links
www.samaritans.org
www.samaritans.org/support-us/campaign/brew-monday
www.cruse.org.uk
Buy ‘Sisters and Brothers: Stories about the death of a sibling’ book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3obuEGw
Recommended
Transcript
The Charity Sector in 2020
00:00:00
Speaker
Charity Sector colleagues, you have been totally awesome during 2020. And this is going out at the beginning of January, and I think we've got months ahead that are gonna continue to be difficult, but know that every day what you're doing is making a massive difference. And so just keep doing what you're doing, folks, because our Charity Sector is absolutely wonderful, and I'm incredibly proud to be part of it, and incredibly proud to be alongside all of you.
The Charity CEO Podcast Introduction
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:00:52
Speaker
I'm the Rio Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.
Insights from Julie Bentley
00:01:09
Speaker
I am delighted to have had the privilege to interview Julie Bentley, the new CEO of Samaritans, the suicide prevention charity.
00:01:16
Speaker
Julie's love for the organisation spans back decades as she reveals that she applied to be the chief exec there 14 years ago, second time lucky. We talk about the work of Samaritans providing a place where someone is always available to listen without judgment.
00:01:34
Speaker
Julie shares life and leadership lessons learned from being a post-lady early in her career and how even today she grapples with the gremlins of imposter syndrome.
Discussing Bereavement and Family Influence
00:01:44
Speaker
She opens her heart about her brother Roy's death and talks about co-curating the book, Sisters and Brothers, breaking taboos around talking about death, dying and bereavement. This is a poignant, moving and inspirational start to our second season. I hope you enjoyed the show.
00:02:03
Speaker
Hi, Julie. Welcome to the show. I have been wanting to have you on as a guest for a little while now, so I'm absolutely delighted to have you here today. I'm very, very excited to be here. Very much so indeed. Looking forward to it. Great. So I like to start off the show with an icebreaker round of some get to know your questions to give our listeners a little bit of a sense of who you are. So I have five questions for you, and if you're ready, let's get started. Oh, wow. Do I get a prize if I give you good answers?
00:02:35
Speaker
but we can sort something out. So question one, can you name a book or a person that has had a profound impact on you as a leader? A book or a person? Wow. As a leader, there's too many books that I love. I think that the person in my life who has had the most profound impact on me generally, not just in leadership roles, but in my whole life would have to be my mum.
00:03:02
Speaker
who was an extraordinary role model of resilience and being a strong woman, but also being compassionate and loving. And I consider myself to be extraordinarily fortunate to operate in the charity sector because I think there are so many incredible role models at the moment, particularly in the charity sector. I couldn't pick out any individual person, but I'm surrounded every day in this sector by role models, I think.
00:03:28
Speaker
Lovely. Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? Well, this is not a superpower. And it's probably not very helpful a lot of the time, but I do swear too much. And I do laugh a lot. So I think humor and bad language have certainly helped me through some of the most difficult leadership challenges that I've faced. But I'm not sure we could really count them as superpowers, but they are very much a part of
00:03:55
Speaker
what makes up Julia Bentley. I love that humor and bad language. That's great. So on that note, what is a superpower you wish you had?
Qualities of Admirable Leaders
00:04:05
Speaker
Superpower I wish I had. I think one of the things I really admire in other people whose leadership style I think differs from my own is I think people who are much, much better than me at being quietly confident and being a quieter tone of leadership.
00:04:24
Speaker
You know, I'm an extrovert, I'm quite gregarious, but sometimes I watch colleagues who just quietly and thoughtfully think things through, don't speak unless they've got something really valuable to offer. But when they speak, they say some of the most extraordinarily helpful and insightful things. I always really admire and respect that in other people, not least because I'm not quite like that myself. So question four then, if you were a Spice Girl, which one would you be and why?
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, it wouldn't be posh, that's for sure. Maybe scary because quite often, especially in my early career, people used to often say that they found me quite scary.
00:05:07
Speaker
And I think we need to remember that my career goes back quite a long way. And that was maybe because back then, confident, assertive women were still considered to be a little scary. And our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be? And what one question would you like to ask them? Wow, that's a, wow, how would I want to interview dead or alive? What one question? Well, I think I'd have to say my dad,
00:05:37
Speaker
because he died when I was 18. And the one question I would ask him is how do you think I'm doing that? Oh, lovely. So we started with your mom and now finished the iceberg around with your dad. Very fitting.
Samaritans' Mission and Volunteer Impact
00:05:51
Speaker
So Julie, you have recently taken the helm as the new CEO of Samaritans, the suicide prevention charity. And I would like to start off by talking about what you do there. So tell us about Samaritans and what is the organization's vision and mission.
00:06:06
Speaker
Okay, well Samaritans, yes, I think I'm in week seven as we record this program. So Samaritans is the national charity that has a vision of fewer people dying by suicide. It is the most extraordinary charity, I have to say. We have over 200 branches across the UK and Ireland.
00:06:25
Speaker
The services are entirely delivered by volunteers and there are 20,000 incredible individuals who keep Samaritans going. And Samaritans is there for people 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days of the year, which I think is extraordinary. And even through this most challenging of years, Samaritans has continued to be open every day, all day for anybody who needs it. I think one of the things that is really important is that
00:06:56
Speaker
to challenge a misconception about Samaritans, which is that I think much of the public think that Samaritans is only for people who are having suicidal feelings. But actually that isn't the case. Samaritans is there for anybody who is experiencing distress, difficulty, challenge, or who wants just to talk to somebody. And actually only one in four of the calls that we receive at Samaritans is from somebody who is feeling suicidal. We have people who ring with a myriad of issues
00:07:24
Speaker
challenges, everything from financial challenges to family and relationship issues, to concerns about employment, housing, everything you can think of. Very importantly as well, we hear from people who simply are lonely and feeling isolated. And that is very much the case this year as well as we are winding our way through this pandemic. But if I tell you that I applied to be the chief executive of Samaritans 14 years ago, as it would have been my second chief executive role, and I wasn't even shortlisted for the job,
00:07:54
Speaker
And on reflection, that was absolutely right because now, in hindsight, I was woefully under-skilled to take on such a challenging role 14 years ago. But I think that probably tells you a little bit about how long I have admired the work of Samaritans. And it's an extraordinary privilege to
00:08:14
Speaker
14 years later have been able to get the job. That's absolutely brilliant. And thank you, Julie, for making the distinction there that Samaritans is there to help people in distress more widely. It's not just about suicide prevention. I'm curious to hear a bit more about your organizational model. So you mentioned there about the 20,000 volunteers who are engaged to help deliver the services. So can you talk a bit more about the volunteers and also about the impact that the pandemic has had on the organization?
00:08:45
Speaker
So Samaritan's entirely delivered by volunteers. We have a very small paid staff team. We have paid staff in our Central Samaritan's team and we also have some paid staff across the different nations of the United Kingdom and Ireland. But on the front line in our branches, it's entirely delivered by volunteers. Central Samaritan's is there to support that volunteer movement to be able to be there for all of the people that need us.
00:09:09
Speaker
So Central Samaritan's does things like provide training and all of the infrastructure around it. Our volunteers go through really, really high quality training. And it's been very interesting as I've been meeting volunteers over these last few weeks. One of the things I'm hearing from all of the volunteers is how extraordinarily high quality and high caliber the training that they receive to become a volunteer is. And indeed it needs to be because of course they are supporting people
00:09:36
Speaker
And they never know from one minute to the next what the next person they talk to is wanting to raise with them to talk about. And this is extraordinarily painful and challenging things that people hear about and have to support and deal with. And one of the things that I am really delighted to hear is that our volunteers feel like they are really well supported and trained to deal with that. Not only the training, but they also tell me how very well supported they are in their voluntary Samaritan's roles. So that's absolutely crucial.
00:10:05
Speaker
And then we have a paid workforce of around 200 people who are also extraordinary individuals who work very, very hard to make sure that Samaritans are able to do what they do every day. It's a phenomenal organization. That's absolutely brilliant to hear. Julie, can you tell us a bit more about some of the challenges and priorities for Samaritans that you're looking at right now?
00:10:29
Speaker
Well, I mean, obviously, like all charities, Samaritans had to respond to coronavirus. Like all charities, we had to go virtual very, very quickly. And obviously, we have physical branches, buildings, 200 of them around the country. And we had to think about how we could establish them in such a way that we could keep the service going. Very early on in the pandemic, Samaritans were made key workers by the government, which meant that Samaritans could continue to operate.
00:10:57
Speaker
But we did have a real challenge with many of our volunteers needing to isolate or not being able to continue their volunteering, especially in the first lockdown in March. And we saw a volunteer number decline in that period by about 30%. And that was obviously at a time when we needed to make sure that we were there to respond to the increasing challenges that the wider public were feeling. I'm really delighted that we now have seen those volunteer numbers come back up again as people have been able to return.
00:11:26
Speaker
But one of the things that some of those volunteers who had to isolate was that they then actually started to do volunteering from home to help support the NHS helpline that we set up as part of the response to the pandemic. One of the other things that we saw during coronavirus was we saw a real uplift in the email as a form of contact to the service. We saw it go up by over 35%.
00:11:50
Speaker
And we think that is because in lockdown, people obviously are often in homes where there's no private space. And obviously if you want to ring Samaritans, then you want to have confidentiality and privacy. And we think therefore that that resulted in a number of people turning to email as a way of contacting us rather than the telephone. So yes, pivoted very, very quickly and established a number of additional services. So,
Initiatives to Combat Depression
00:12:17
Speaker
We launched a self-help app so that people could get some, you know, just get help for themselves when they needed it. If feelings were difficult, we launched a service in partnership with some other organizations, Mind Shout Hospices UK, called Our Frontline, which was a service dedicated for frontline workers and blue light workers, key workers, et cetera. And as I say, we also established the line for NHS workers dedicated to them, to support them with their wellbeing and mental health.
00:12:47
Speaker
because obviously, you know, on the front line, they were seeing a lot of very, very difficult things and operating in extraordinarily high, high stress, high pressure times. And of course, we've seen through callers, the impact that coronavirus has had on the public. And we are seeing real concerns around anxiety and isolation, loneliness, financial concerns, relationship challenges. And, you know, this is this risk to the public's mental health is really significant. And we
00:13:15
Speaker
We need to make sure that alongside the obvious physical risks of the pandemic, that we don't underestimate the mental health risks that we are seeing as a result of it as well. At the moment, we have one in five of our colleagues are wondering about coronavirus and the impacts of that on them.
00:13:30
Speaker
And I think this might be a good point for us to talk a bit more in terms of the mental health aspects. And I want to also point to a campaign that Samaritans are doing. So the third Monday in January is meant to be the most depressing day of the year as people settle back into work and routines post Christmas.
00:13:50
Speaker
This day is usually known as Blue Monday. I know as the take on Blue Monday that Samaritans are doing a campaign to turn this into Brew Monday. Talk to us about Brew Monday. Yeah. Obviously, the pandemic has added to the pressures that people are facing in the year. We are encouraging people to reach out to someone they care about, that they work alongside,
00:14:15
Speaker
to connect with someone else over a cup of tea. As you say, the 18th of January is considered to be, you know, a very difficult day in the calendar. And so we're saying on Brew Monday, make a cuppa, reach out to somebody else, have a conversation, check in with each other. And of course it doesn't have to be a Monday and it doesn't have to be a cup of tea. It's just about encouraging people to talk to each other.
00:14:41
Speaker
But really importantly, it's about encouraging us to listen to each other because that's what Samaritans is all about. Samaritans is about there always being a place where somebody can go and have somebody listen to them without judgment on any level. And that skill of listening is really, really important and it's very powerful. And so we're asking people, you know, on Brew Monday, 18th of January,
00:15:09
Speaker
take some time out to check in with other people. And there's lots of ideas on our website about how you can actively listen if people want to check it out on the Samaritans website. So it's interesting because 18th of January is also to date that this podcast interview is going to be released. And I hope that through this conversation we can help spread some cheer and indeed gain more traction for your Brew Monday campaign and the brilliant work of Samaritans.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, me too, me too. Have a nice cup of tea, folks. Indeed. But Julie, before we move on, I just want to touch upon something that you mentioned earlier. As you said, we are recording this in mid-December and you've been in post for about seven weeks. I understand you started your role just as the country was heading into the second national lockdown at the beginning of November. So
00:15:56
Speaker
I'd like to know, how has it been starting your role as a new CEO during lockdown? And have you actually had the opportunity to meet with your team in person, or has it just all been virtual coffees and things? Yes, well, I mean, it's been slightly odd, to say the least, to join a new organization as chief exec from the corner of my spare bedroom, which is where I talk to you from as we speak. I mean, obviously, the country has been working in this way all year.
00:16:25
Speaker
And I had a break before starting at Samaritan's. I didn't work for several months before it. And so then going into the new role, I mean, you're always nervous when you start a new role anyway. And really, to be honest with you, I wasn't sure what to expect. I got the kit, so I got the laptop and everything was provided for me and the diary was in place. And so basically I've been sitting here meeting lots and lots of Samaritan's colleagues over the last few weeks.
00:16:54
Speaker
One of the things I was concerned about was how do you make that connection and how do you build those relationships when you're doing it virtually? So I've tried a range of means. I've done a lot of one-to-one conversations, a bit like the one that you and I are having now, really. But I've also done virtual visits to branches, to Samaritan's branches. I came off of one this morning where I met with a number of volunteers from Aberdeen branch. I've been all over the UK virtually from my room meeting branches virtually.
00:17:23
Speaker
I've also had virtual coffee mornings and coffee afternoons with Samaritan staff where six colleagues at a time have signed up to a slot. Everybody's brought a cup of coffee along and we've just chatted and it's just really been a kind of let's get to know each other kind of deal. It's really important to me that people know who I am if I'm their chief exec and I can only hope really that I can still convey that through this means.
00:17:49
Speaker
But there've been great opportunities actually, just to, one of the good things about it is I would definitely by Christmas have met far more people doing it this way than I would have done if I was traveling around the UK to meet people. So, you know, it's not all negative. There's some real positives as well to utilising, I think, virtual means as we go forward. But I have met my ELT now, not together, I should add, but individually we've managed to find ways to capture some time
00:18:16
Speaker
been for a walk with one of them, et cetera, who made me laugh tremendously because his first response when I walked up to meet him was, oh, you're much taller of Julie than I thought you were going to be. Because, of course, you we don't know what if you don't know somebody, you actually don't know what they look like at all beyond, you know, below this this headshot. And that's quite odd as well when you don't know people and you're in any organization.
00:18:39
Speaker
But I'm just really grateful that, you know, technology has enabled me to enter the organization to start to build my relationships and people have been really great and really welcoming, really helpful, answering all of the lots of tedious questions I've been asking them. So yeah, on the whole, it's not been a bad entry, but I think that
00:18:58
Speaker
from talking to colleagues across the charity sector, I think people are pretty exhausted that as we get to this point, you know, we're recording this just before Christmas. And, you know, people have had a really, really tough year. And I think there's a lot of fatigue and there's a lot of fatigue of sitting in one room and staring at the screen of the computer all day long. So people taking care of their wellbeing is really important when working like this. And that's certainly something that we've been
00:19:24
Speaker
focused a lot on its Americans about how are our folks doing and how is their wellbeing. And we will continue to think about that as we enter January, because I think we've got several more months at least of this, haven't we?
00:19:36
Speaker
Yes, I absolutely agree with that, and it is so, so important. Julie, I'd like to talk more now about your own experiences and your personal leadership journey, if
Julie's Leadership Journey
00:19:48
Speaker
you like. You have been a charity CEO for over 18 years. Before joining Samaritans, you were most recently at Action for Children, and before that, of course, with Girl Guiding, Family Planning Association, and the Susie Lamplute Trust.
00:20:03
Speaker
So if we delve into your personal story, I know that you didn't follow what may be considered more of a traditional route to leadership. You didn't go to university after school and your first job I believe was as a post lady. So I'm really interested to hear how you went from being a post lady to running one of the UK's biggest charities with over 150 million pounds in turnover and what experiences you had along the way that you feel really helped prepare you for the CEO role.
00:20:32
Speaker
I was trying to work that out myself how that happened.
00:20:36
Speaker
Absolutely. As you say, I certainly when I was a child, you wouldn't have had me down as somebody who was going to end up having had the career that I had. I grew up in a very, very working class family background. I grew up in a family that was quite poor and a family where academic achievement wasn't something that was either expected or aspired to. If I'm honest, it was a very working class family. My dad was a manual laborer. My mum was a cleaning lady.
00:21:04
Speaker
And I was the youngest out of three children. My brother and sister were quite a lot older than me. So, you know, I was pretty rubbish at school academically. I was in, you know, lots of the lower classes, lower bands of stuff. I was extraordinarily shy, which many people would find hard to believe now I know, but painfully shy, you know, like really debilitatingly shy as a small, small child. And so I still kind of look back and think I'm not quite sure how that happened.
00:21:33
Speaker
But, you know, I did enjoy school and I particularly enjoyed the sixth form where I kind of started to feel like I'd come into my own a bit there. And then when I first left school, actually my very first job was as a photographic technician with Essex police. It was an apprenticeship role. And I did that after my A-levels, which I did really appallingly in my A-levels. And partly that was to do with the fact that, you know, things were tough. And then when I had to re-sit them,
00:22:01
Speaker
I had a chance to reset my A levels, but unfortunately by the time I resat them I was just around the time my dad died. So that wasn't ideal really. But to be honest, I just wasn't very bright academically. So I'm not sure that there's any world in which I would have done better in my exams. I was really interested in photography. So I took this apprenticeship job as a photographic technician and hadn't really quite understood what that meant. But I realised very quickly that I wasn't cut out for that job because
00:22:27
Speaker
It involved, of course, looking at all of the scene of crime photographs from across Essex. And they were, as you might imagine, frequently horrific. And so I didn't stay in that job for very long. And then I needed to get a job because I needed to make my financial contribution to our family. And so I just got the first job I could find in my local area, which was at the time advertised as a postman back in the day.
00:22:53
Speaker
I did that for five years and I actually really loved it. I loved being a postie. You know, you're out and about, you're doing a lot of exercise, you get to meet a lot of people, you don't have people giving you too much hassle, but you also learn a lot about people being a postie. So I, you know, I learned a lot from how people treated me because some people treated me really well and warmly and actually some people didn't treat me very well because they thought it's just the postie and they underestimated me
00:23:21
Speaker
And that taught me quite a lot about the importance of how you behave toward one another. But during that time, I decided that I was really interested in being a youth worker and working with young people. And so I also began to volunteer and then I went on to train as a youth worker. So after five years of being a postie and also doing voluntary youth work, in addition to being a postie, I then eventually got my first paid youth work job in London when I was 23, working for a charity called Charterhouse in Southwark. And then,
00:23:51
Speaker
I just found myself in a management position one day. You know, I somehow ended up running the center and then running a department. And then before I knew it, I was being promoted to assistant director. And so when I left there, I was 28 or 29 and I was assistant director at the time that I left and I had no aspiration or intention to be in management at all. So yeah, to have found myself then becoming a chief executive, you know, I still feel slightly bemused by that even now, if I'm honest with you.
00:24:21
Speaker
But it was in Charterhouse in Southwark that I met my first amazing wrong model who really took me under her wing, who saw some potential in me and who took some risks and invested in me. And she put me through my management diploma in management. She put me through a diploma in counseling. And it was at that point that my interest in learning was ignited because it was learning about things that I actually was interested in and that I could apply to my job. And as a result of that, I did then go on to do an MBA later in my career.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting, a couple of things that you talked about there in terms of listening, having a real passion for learning and wanting to help other people and crucially, actually treating everybody that you come across with real dignity and as human beings and as equals.
00:25:08
Speaker
So on that note then, what are some of the fundamentals of leadership that you see is key for all charity leaders to be able to steer their organizations through this ongoing crisis and perhaps also touch upon some examples that you've seen modeled by charity sector leaders during this pandemic?
Leadership Qualities During the Pandemic
00:25:26
Speaker
I think the single most important quality for a leader in our sector, well, actually, I would say any leader, not just in our sector, but for me, it's all of the emotional intelligence, you know, it's all of those areas of random emotional intelligence. It's about authenticity for me, and it's about humility. It's about absolutely about resilience, and goodness me, haven't colleagues needed that this year. And I do think humour helps. And I think it is also about vulnerability, because for me, that's part of being authentic and showing humility.
00:25:56
Speaker
I always say that, you know, I can't be anything other than who I am. There's not several versions of this julibently. There's not the professional julibently than the private one. There's just this one. And that therefore means that I need to try and just be as authentic as I can at all times. And my experience over many years of being a chief executive is actually, that's what people want of you and expect of you as their chief exec. They want to know that they can trust you to tell the truth, to be honest with them about things.
00:26:25
Speaker
And I think this year, I mean, I spent a number of months of this year sitting on the sidelines, not leading an organization and watching as the pandemic struck and our sector just faced the most enormous, enormous challenge that it may have faced. And I can't tell you how blown away I've been by the response of leaders in the charity sector.
00:26:52
Speaker
talk about authenticity and vulnerability and humility and resilience in bucket loads. I mean, we have seen some extraordinarily good examples of leadership. We've seen people blogging about their own pain at the difficult decisions that happen to make about their organisations. We've seen people talk publicly about the fact that they just don't know what to do, actually, and they're trying to work out as they go along.
00:27:20
Speaker
We've seen people talk about their own mental health struggles and how much they're finding it difficult living through this pandemic and through lockdown scenarios. And people have brought their whole selves to their leadership roles this year. And I think that the sector and the different charities are much the better for it. And I think there's been a generosity of learning across the sector and across leadership
00:27:45
Speaker
where people have said, you know what, none of us can do this on our own. And actually we need to pull together and we need to do our best collectively to steer our organizations and to hold ourselves and each other through this time. And I have seen that happening. I've watched with immense pride as I've seen our sector do that.
00:28:06
Speaker
Yes, this whole concept of your whole self and bringing your whole self to work actually has really taken on a different meaning during this crisis with everybody on Zoom calls and we're looking into each other's homes. And there's almost been nowhere to hide if you've got pets and children kind of walking into the room in the background. And I think Julie, I was very much like you, I've been on a maternity break, so I did feel I was a little bit on the sidelines.
00:28:32
Speaker
while the whole crisis broke, so to speak. And this is one of the reasons why I started this podcast because I really wanted to help share some of the incredibly inspirational stories and messages around challenge, et cetera, much wider to the sector. So hopefully this certainly is helping with that piece around collaboration and getting everybody to pull together.
00:28:54
Speaker
If we come back, Julie, to your own leadership journey, I'm curious, what advice would you give yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO? If I could give it back, you mean, if I could look back and give myself advice. Yes. Yeah. I would say don't worry so much. I used to worry a lot. I mean, you know, the very shy, nervous little girl obviously found confidence because they ended up as a chief executive.
00:29:20
Speaker
But for many, many years I worried tremendously about things. I carried the weight of being a chief executive quite heavily and felt extraordinarily responsible. And that's not wrong because of course you are extraordinarily responsible and you should feel that. But I think that there are different ways of carrying it. And I think for a long time I carried it quite heavily and I had extraordinarily high expectations of myself. And I had significant degree of imposter syndrome.
00:29:48
Speaker
of thinking, what on earth am I doing? I'm just a really not very bright poster person from Essex. How can I think I can run this organization? And over the years, I have learned how to deal with the imposter syndrome. I always describe it as a gremlin on my shoulder who's whispering in my ear, you can't do this, you can't do this. And over the years, I've got a lot better at a little creature on the opposite shoulder shouting, shut up, yes, she can, across to them.
00:30:15
Speaker
But it doesn't entirely ever go away, I think, if I'm completely honest. And so, yeah, I would definitely say worry less, Julie. Share the burden more and know that you are good enough. And I know all of those things now.
00:30:29
Speaker
but I think it would have been better for my health and wellbeing if I'd have known them and been able to work that out earlier in my career. And so what I say now to people entering Chief Exec roles for the first time is, you really need to pace yourself in this. It's a hard job being a Chief Exec of a charity. There are so many people to be accountable to. There are so many really important things that you're responsible for. We're here because we're passionate about our issues of the charities that we represent.
00:30:58
Speaker
But we're custodians of charities as chief execs. We have them for a unique period of time and our job is to do the best we can for that charity's beneficiaries whilst we're there and then we hand it on hopefully in better shape to the next person. And so now more than ever, and actually in the coming years more than ever, we need to make sure that we're looking after ourselves because if we burn out, then we're not going to be able to do our job properly anyway. So yes, it would be,
00:31:26
Speaker
Be kind, show the kindness to yourself that you show to other people. I'm reminded of the quote where I think it goes something like this. The devil whispered in my ear, you cannot withstand the storm. I whispered back, I am the storm. And that's a quote that I really love. And to me, it talks about having real sense of conviction in yourself and what you're able to bring and just having that resilience piece.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the third thing I would say to my younger self was you don't have to do everything on your own. Actually, alongside other people is better. And that's something that I have certainly embraced a lot. You know, I rely on and lean on colleagues in my own organization and across the sector, because I really believe that if we're all here, you know, with a shared endeavor, then let's do it together. Let's not try and do it on our own.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yes, and talking of shared endeavors, Julie, I'd like to move on now to talk about the book Sisters and Brothers.
Exploring Sibling Bereavement and Dialogue
00:32:25
Speaker
This is a book that you've curated along with Simon Blake, the CEO of Mental Health, First Aid England, and the book is about loss, and as the title suggests, specifically about the death of a sibling. So I know that you've been very open about your brother, Roy,
00:32:42
Speaker
who sadly died in February of 2019, and also about how you feel that there needs to be much more of a conversation around the subject of death. And so given that context, Julie, tell us about how this book came about. So Simon and I have been friends for many years, having met when we both worked in the sexual health sector. And Simon's brother Andrew died a few years ago. And then as you say, my brother Roy died last year.
00:33:07
Speaker
And we obviously were talking together about that after Roy died, we were talking about the death of the brother or sister and the loss of siblings. And one of the things that we were both reflecting on was the fact that we had been unable to find a huge amount of literature or reading about the death of an adult sibling. There's lots written about bereavement and death of different relationships, but not so much about adult siblings death.
00:33:32
Speaker
And the idea of the book was actually Simon's. He messaged me one day when he was away on holiday and said, I've got this idea about getting people who have experienced the death of an adult brother or sister to write chapters and maybe try and get a book together. And he said, I have three questions for you. One is, do you think it's a good idea? Two is, if you do think it's a good idea, would you write a chapter? And three is, if your answer to questions one and two is yes, will you actually do it with me and co-create it with me? And so I said, yes, yes, yes.
00:34:01
Speaker
And then we spent the last year pretty much working on it. And the book has 12 chapters and each is a different story of a different person's experience of the loss of their brother or sister. And there was, you know, there's kind of no rules really. We let people write the chapters in the way and tone and style that they wanted to. And we launched it last month and it's, I mean, if I do say so myself, I think it's a rather special thing. And what we hope is, we hope two things. We hope that it will open up the conversation about death and dying.
00:34:29
Speaker
We hope that it will bring comfort and accompany people who have lost a brother or sister. And also we hope it's going to raise some money for cruise bereavement care, which is a charity that supports people who are facing bereavement, not just of siblings, but of any kind. And all of the proceeds from the book are going to cruise bereavement care. So, yeah, I mean, in the midst of a year that's been pretty awful, it feels like something positive and constructive actually to come out of that year.
00:34:58
Speaker
and it's also been a really very real way for all of the contributors who are all wonderful and Simon and I are so grateful to all of the contributors. It's also been a way for us all to honour our brothers and sisters which has felt
00:35:11
Speaker
pretty special as well. Yes, you speak so eloquently in your chapter about Roy in the book about how your family ties are your anchors. So what message do you have for others who have similarly lost people who were their anchors and who perhaps now feel untethered? I would say don't be alone with it. I feel really strongly that we aren't very good at dealing with death, dying, bereavement, particularly in this country.
00:35:38
Speaker
I've been through a number of significant bereavements. My dad died when I was 18, and then my mum died when I was in my early 30s, and now my brother has died. And if I've learned anything from those experiences, it's that actually we just need to talk about it. There's still too much of a taboo around death. There's still too much of a taboo around the process of dying if somebody is terminally ill. And it's nothing to be scared of. But actually, if you can embrace it and if you can find the words to express how you're feeling,
00:36:07
Speaker
It can be extraordinarily liberating, but also it's a very beautiful thing to be able to talk with people at the end of their lives. I was fortunate to have that time when my mum died because she was terminally ill and therefore we knew that her life was coming to an end and similarly with my brother. So I would say we really do need as a society to talk more about death, dying and bereavement. And I'm determined to keep talking about it and to help encourage others to.
00:36:36
Speaker
And if you are facing the loss of somebody or you're facing a death, then just reach out. It doesn't matter if you don't know how to say it or what to say. It really doesn't matter. And if you are accompanying somebody who's had a bereavement or is facing that, just keep letting them know that you're there and it's fine and you can listen because you don't need to have all the answers. You don't need to have solutions. You just need to be able to listen to somebody and accompany them on that journey of bereavement.
00:37:05
Speaker
I heard you speak at an event recently where you, Simon, and a number of the other contributors were talking about the book, and you shared a beautiful story about your mum and her message about butterflies. I wonder if you could share that story with us now. So one of the conversations that my mum and I had during the last few months of her life was about the fact that she was somebody who had a faith, a religious faith, and I don't.
00:37:31
Speaker
And mum was very troubled by the fact that I didn't have a religious faith because she was taking great comfort from her faith about the end of her life being near. And she kept talking to me about the fact that she wished I'd had the same. And I said, it's fine, mum, because I don't need that. But I'm glad you have it. I'm glad that's your comfort. But then nearer her death, she wrote to each myself, my brother and sister, a letter. And it was personalised to each of us. But she wrote for all of us that
00:37:59
Speaker
that she wanted, whenever we saw a butterfly, she wanted us to take that opportunity to remember how much she loved us. And so I have no religious belief whatsoever, but her inviting me to always view a butterfly is a little reminder of her love for us. It has proven to be an extraordinarily lovely thing since her death.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yes, that's such a beautiful story. I really love that. And just so listeners know, the book Sisters and Brothers is available to buy on Amazon. And as you said, Julie, all of the proceeds are going to the charity cruise bereavement care and links to both the charity and the book will be included in the show notes. So Julie, we've now sadly come to the end of our lovely conversation. And do you have any final thoughts or reflections?
Encouraging Charity Workers
00:38:47
Speaker
What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation?
00:38:52
Speaker
Oh, wow. I tell you what, I would like listeners to take away from this conversation, which is that charity sector colleagues, you have been totally awesome during 2020. And this is going out at the beginning of January. And I think we've got months ahead that are going to continue to be difficult, but know that every day what you're doing is making a massive difference. And so just keep doing what you're doing, folks, because
00:39:19
Speaker
Our charity sector is absolutely wonderful and I'm incredibly proud to be part of it and incredibly proud to be alongside all of you. So stay well. Thank you, Julie. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you for all of your wisdom and of course for being a guest on the show. Thank you so much. It's been great.
00:39:38
Speaker
What a beautiful start to season two of the Charity CEO podcast. Kindness was a core theme running throughout my conversation with Julie Bentley, CEO of Samaritans. And as Julie said, if we all showed the same kindness to ourselves that we show to other people, as leaders, we would be happier and healthier in mind, body, and spirit. I'm really excited for my next interview with fellow podcaster Mark Longbottom.
00:40:05
Speaker
Mark is the CEO of Hot Kids New Zealand and in his spare time produces the successful purposely podcast. Tune in on the 1st of February to listen to my conversation with Mark Longbottom.
00:40:18
Speaker
I am so grateful to all of our Season 1 followers and listeners who helped the show reach the top of the Apple Podcast rankings for the non-profit podcast category. It is such an incredible endorsement of our content, and the rankings and reviews really make a difference because they enable more people to find and listen to the podcast. So if you enjoyed the show, please click the subscribe button on your podcast app and consider leaving us a five-star review.
00:40:44
Speaker
Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details and to submit suggestions or questions for future guests. Thank you for listening.