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00:00:01
Why I'm so passionate about "Moments with MEN"
24 Plays9 months ago
An introduction to why I have these conversations with men.
Thank you for supporting my work with "Moments with MEN!"
Contact me with comments, insights or to continue the discussion with me on your own episode ...
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi,
Introduction and Men's Experiences
00:00:02
Speaker
Lizzie Kay here. I just wanted to come on and tell a little more about why I am so passionate about moments with men. Perhaps not why you think. See, I'm not at all new to this game of life and I've had many moments with men.
00:00:24
Speaker
I've been in relationship with a few, I worked with them, observed and listened to them. And, you know, I think it's actually really tough out there for men right now. Yes, it's tough for all of us, men and women alike. And of course, not every single man is experiencing the same thing. But from my perspective, it seems at this stage of all the huge changes that are happening all around us,
00:00:52
Speaker
In general, men are having a hard time.
Are Masculine Roles Fulfilling?
00:00:57
Speaker
And so a hard time with what? Isn't it a man's world? I mean, don't they always have more opportunity and more respect and more prestige and just an easier time? Well, maybe, but our opportunity and respect and prestige and ultimately success in the material world, the only things that make life easier
00:01:23
Speaker
What about authenticity? What about being free to question expected roles? And what are the roles now?
00:01:34
Speaker
Which thoughts, behaviors, ways of being are naturally masculine and which have been part of a passed down narrative for so long. We don't even know whether we're wired that way or programmed that way. And that's men and women alike. I think for men, they really have been given a story of what being a man means.
00:02:02
Speaker
And
Restrictive Narratives and Astrology
00:02:02
Speaker
then, so what outlets do they have if they want to question some of those things or really think about those roles or talk about them in a deeper way?
00:02:15
Speaker
So how often have we heard that, you know, all men are a certain way and all women are a certain way, especially think about, we think we've heard men are rational, women are emotional, or here's a new one. Men are toxic, women are crazy and men are toxic.
00:02:34
Speaker
And, of course, men should be strong and women are the weaker sex. So, you know, or we even hear how men or women just don't get it, you know, or that men should do certain things and women should do certain things.
00:02:51
Speaker
You know, women like to talk and men like to watch sports or drink beer or on and on. You know, we just put it right down the middle. Men are one way and women are another. So I work from the shamanic astrology period paradigm. And very simply, in astrology, the zodiac has 12 places on the wheel.
00:03:20
Speaker
like 12 members of a tribe. And they each have an important and vital function. And if all the 12 members of the tribe tried to only be like three of the members, well then we'd be missing out on nine of the important functions.
00:03:40
Speaker
So what happens in this society is it seems that there are about three of those roles of the tribe that are accepted. Father, protector, provider, there may be one or two others, but there certainly aren't 12. And even further,
00:04:00
Speaker
instead of just being the 12 tribe members, each member can also have a different flavor, a different flair that they bring, a different version of that role that they bring to the tribe too. So what I'm saying is instead of the three or four roles that we try to say men have in the society and only accept,
00:04:24
Speaker
Well, this paradigm shows very clearly that there are, gosh, we're up to 144 different versions of the masculine. But society is relentless.
00:04:39
Speaker
It relentlessly molds all of us into fitting into manageable little boxes. So even the virtuous qualities are limited. You know, it's generally not accepted that the protector can also be or decide to be the Epicurean or that the father can be free to undertake a vision quest.
00:05:04
Speaker
Women know this, we've lived it. We've been rising up, gathering, coffee clutching, girlfriending, retreating, doing our work, regaining our inner power, all of these things to try to break out of those boxes. So
Expressing Masculinity and Societal Expectations
00:05:23
Speaker
what do men do?
00:05:26
Speaker
Have a beer and forget about it all. Watch a game. Have a night out with the guys at a noisy bar or other kind of distraction disco, where we just don't have to talk about these things. Do their women or partners or wives or mothers or sisters give time and space to think and feel and speak? Or do they just know how they are already and dismiss them?
00:05:52
Speaker
My friend produced a podcast a few months ago entitled I'm a man, in which he and his podcast partner were talking about these very things. Part of what they described is that men have heavy expectations on them, ingrained messages about right manliness and no outlet to express the frustration they're feeling or much hope of getting out of these little boxes.
00:06:20
Speaker
So I contacted them because I wanted to let them know that I actually have a heart for this and that women I know feel the same, that not all women see all men as toxic or lazy or spiritually stupid or whatever projections they've become accustomed to. And that I certainly don't have any answers about how to fix it all, but I really would like to have the conversation and really would like to just let them know
00:06:47
Speaker
that there are women who don't see all men the same way. So I wanted to ask them, how could it change? And what would that look like? So a few weeks later, they invited me to be a guest on their episode, I'm a man too.
00:07:07
Speaker
In the first five minutes, it was interesting, um, as we were just introducing, getting introductions in, uh, Joe made a comment with a deflective little laugh, like we do, that Lizzie's going to tell us what's wrong with men.
Women's Perspectives and Diverse Masculinity
00:07:23
Speaker
And it certainly wasn't personal. I know he was kind of joking on the chin.
00:07:29
Speaker
I say, but it struck me as indicative of what men have come to expect, that telling them what's wrong with them is what women do. I've done it. I was married for 24 years and had a list of what was wrong. And he should just, and if only he was more, and I would do or be different if it wasn't for him, he never, he always, yada, yada. I mean, we've all done that.
00:08:00
Speaker
You know, women are crying to be seen and heard and respected and known, of course, and rightly so. And are we doing that for men? There are some men's movements, groups, gatherings, mostly I've seen around reclaiming the warrior within. And yes, that is definitely needed for some.
00:08:28
Speaker
But there are many other expressions of masculinity than warriorship. Where are those groups? How do men who don't desire to express as a warrior find their authenticity?
00:08:43
Speaker
I don't know. I don't claim to have answers. I do know a little about the human condition and about nervous system responses and about the need to feel like you won't be judged or ousted from a group or from society before you'll speak or make a change or even take a deep breath. I know it's a more delicate process than screaming. Why don't you just be different?
00:09:13
Speaker
at someone. So, I want to hear from men about their thoughts and experiences of what it means to be a man in today's world. I also want to offer men an experience of having a conversation with a woman about these deeper topics without agendas or expectations or history or advice
00:09:43
Speaker
I want to have conversations that bridge some gaps in understanding between men and women.
Bridging Understanding Between Genders
00:09:51
Speaker
And regardless of how we were born and how we may choose to identify after that, at least for now, we are not going to escape relationships between men and women. So how can we drop the all men, all women narrative and allow each other to express more of our own individuality? Not just women, but men too.