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Moments with GEOF - Part 2
16 Plays5 months ago
"What about just being a kid?" ...
GEOF & I continue our contemplation & conversation in Part 2 of "Moments with GEOF" as we discuss the integral pieces that go into building a man of strength, honor, integrity and kindness, including lightbulb moment of realizing how extremely important the "feeling function" is to mental and physical health, safety and the ability to grow and adapt.
"Everything you choose gets you where you need to go." What are you choosing on your way to becoming the man you want to be?
Listen to more of Geof's meaningful experience and deep wisdom ...
Also hear his father's take on becoming a man in "Moments with GENE"
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Transcript
Childhood Mischief and Lost Carefreeness
00:00:00
Speaker
And I'm like, really? What about being a kid? What about I remember, I got yelled at from the moment I said, guys, have you ever toilet paper at to house? And they said no. So they go, what is that? And I told them what it is. And then one of the moms or dads can I say, Hey, Jeff, that was really responsible, because you're really wasting resources. I'm like, you got me there. But just be a kid. You know, ding dong ditch. I know it's a pain in the ass of the community. But I mean, those
Impact of Alpha Beta Dynamics
00:00:22
Speaker
are just, we're taking that away, you know, and then I'm going but yeah the alpha beta male thing drives me absolutely nuts and it's a it's a community killer you know the way it's going you say it makes no sense I guess you know we could go down the road where it actually does make sense um right to uh
00:00:43
Speaker
to destroy the family because what did, let's go back to what did you get from doing that? What did you get from puppy play? but and Again, I don't know why I keep saying that, but i you know what I mean, playing on the field, being able to be tackled and still be loved and challenged, all those things, family around you. um different
Enhanced Consciousness and Gender Confusion
00:01:00
Speaker
you know older people younger people all of that that if those people if those kids are in classroom every single day they're not doing any of that which means they don't feel supported which means they don't know that that it's okay for them to mess up and to challenge themselves and to question what they're doing so that then they can change and adapt they don't it's all linear
00:01:23
Speaker
It must be from here to there. You must pass the test. It's very patriarchal. So. And as you say, I'm sorry. And there's no experience in playing with feelings. No, not at all. Just to be real clear, I don't think it's an age thing um because I see adults trapped on their phone doing the same thing. And I do see we're not doing because there are so many wonderful young kids out there right now. It's just some of them are such an a mess. I mean, they have no feelings, but there's a lot of them we will get, where there's nothing we'll get through, but yeah, yeah it's, it's rough. So you're speaking
Experience and Personal Growth
00:02:01
Speaker
to my my other life where I teach about this great turning of the ages and what we're in, and they're both happening at one time. There's this really, you know, forced structure into not even knowing your gender. And then there's these other you know kids coming through that, you know, just have this consciousness. You're like, how do you know that at eight years old?
00:02:21
Speaker
So it's both happening at one time and you're right. You know, it's not doom and gloom, but okay. So, you know, and I know you probably have some other ideas about what you want to talk about. So go ahead. If there's something you want to open up. Um, yeah, I'm, uh, I, I think, I mean, ah through experience, experience is great. I mean, I remember one of my mentors when I got about my, got my first gym started and i I had two mentors and I had different lunches with them and I had a meeting on what I need to do because I just sank a lot of money and 30 grand, you know which was a lot of money for me to start in the 90s.
00:03:05
Speaker
and Both of them after hearing my struggles after getting it going or my desires were saying, Jeff, you're defining experience. Again, two different lunches. They rounded up and I said, what are you talking about? They said everything you're aiming for is about experience and you can't get there without putting the time in. So you have to put time in, you have to mess up, you have to learn even though I want to worry about physical and conditioning and training and rehab. I got to keep the supplies that pay the electricity, keep the insurance. I mean all these things which are going to mess up and even protocols you might have. So I mean it's wants to pay you for three months in advance and you think wow this is going to be a great thing and then it doesn't work out. You know you just never know. so
00:03:48
Speaker
I think being patient and putting your time in to get experience. And then I think with the masculinity part is you keep learning um from certain, you keep learning and then you can put in the right mindset or the right gear. I define those formula one race cars. They have eight different gears. So those drivers are perfect in all eight. They would make us drivers look ridiculous. This is like you work any elite musician, they they know when to be at a certain area, at a certain spot, how hard, how soft, how long, how short. those You can't rush it, right? If you wanna be a performer, you have to play in thousands of crappy gigs. you know To be a lawyer or a doctor, you have to read so much, your eyes are gonna be shot before you're making any type of money.
00:04:36
Speaker
you got to put the time in. I think experience that allows us to adapt. you know so And if you don't put yourself out there and get the experience and be in an environment that's you know iron sharpens iron is one of the things I've always grown to, is you don't want to be coddled, but you don't want to be oppressed. It's got to be fair and firm when it's supposed to. And I think finding experiences through things you're Not good at, you know, I started competing in kettlebell lifting years ago. I am not, I always lifted from my sport, but I wasn't known
Zen Story and Embracing Perspectives
00:05:11
Speaker
as just brute strength guy. And we happened to be learning from, we needed translators from all the teachers, you know, because they spoke a different language. But when they spoke physics, we all understood it's international language, momentum, mass, you know, vectors and all that. So it was kind of fun.
00:05:29
Speaker
My goal was to learn kettlebells because I wanted to become a good teacher for the athletes that I worked with. So the guy asked me, are you going to compete? And translator says that. And I said, no, I just want to become a good teacher. And by the time the lady's translating it back to him, I'm like, hey, can I rephrase that? She's like, what? I said, I now realize to become a teacher, I better become a student. So yes, I will compete. you know so Uh, thank goodness, my brain saw it that way. Um, because I don't look at myself as a weight lifter, but then I trained in that for about five years. And it, and I got so much more than just lifting. There was so much about commitment and somewhere where you go, when you have to lift certain weight for 10 minutes without resting, you are experiencing different conscious levels at minute seven.
00:06:19
Speaker
and practicing your brain, it goes to mush, and it's all about these weird conversations that go on. And then when you're done there, you got to go hit the hills and run to train for, you know, for your endurance. So I was very grateful I opened my eyes to that, to have that experience. But I realized, you know, through somebody probably dropped a seed in me a long time, you know, to be a better teacher, you need to be a student first. and reading a lot of Zen stuff. Zen Fles, Zen Bones was a good book that there was one story that stood out at me that helped free me from my past and present. If you don't mind, I'll go there. hey so There is a, what I want
Vulnerability in Masculinity
00:07:00
Speaker
to say, an apprentice and a mentor, right? They're going from each town, our town to town. And so on their way there,
00:07:08
Speaker
they would come to ah a brook or water, you know, and there was a lady on the other side, not a damsel in distress, but it was like, okay, it's kind of deep, she's carrying something. So the master, he went across the river, picked the lady, the brook, sorry, it wasn't a river, I'm already embellishing, that's a guy thing, right? So the fish was out, bit so picks her up, carries her, drops her off, says go on your merry way, boom. So as they get to the town, The apprentice, he is going, um am I saying it right? The apprentice, the younger one, not the master, but he is absolutely baffled. And so his master is telling him, so what's what's what's wrong with you? What's been eating at you all day? He says, I thought we were not supposed to speak and touch anybody when we're commuting from place to place. He says, well, yeah, that's true. There was a person that needed help. I helped. But I had left that there.
00:08:04
Speaker
where where it happened you've been carrying that with you ever since and that one hit me like saying carrying stuff whether it's good or grudges it's my problem it's it's how do I get the experience and things and now to take that different perspective. And it's not that I'm wrong, it's just having a different perspective. And I think that had I not had that influence, then it wouldn't have matched up with things out on the athletic field or classroom or in relationships or family. I think you never know where it's going to hit you and drop like, why did my dad saying honor the family name? Why did that hit me big? Why did it hit me so big when that master was telling him, I let that go when it was there. You know, you've been carrying on that with you the whole time. You know, whose fault is that? You know, so
00:08:48
Speaker
i can you know And there's tons of the lessons in an app for that, but kind of guess samurai and Jedi stuff, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, and I think what you're speaking to, okay, you've been carrying that. And then like you said before, some things we can go, Oh, okay. Well, I'm going to drop this and not carry it anymore. And then some things we go, Oh, okay. That's a little deeper. That's going to take some work and some effort. I'm going to show you a thing that your father gave me. I mean, I made up the saying, but I made it from what he said. I don't know if this shows up um straight forward. I like that sense of purpose. Yes. Right. So and I have it right here at my desk. And I think of him all the time when I when I look at it, because I just stay on it, just stay on it. You you know, if I find that I'm carrying something, it's just hard. I can't just drop it today. Right. Stay on it. Keep at it.
00:09:41
Speaker
Have some patience with yourself. You're going through a change. Maybe you've carried it for years and years and years. I don't think men are really often allowed that. Women have had these years of like you know learning about ourselves. I feel like women are more apt and maybe they have even more openings, more groups, more books. I don't know about how to what you've been doing, getting in touch with that feeling function because that's the gold, right? It is. It really is. It is. It shapes, you know, where you go, what you move toward, what you move away from. But that's been impaired, I would say collectively, for all of us. And so it's, you know, but especially for men, when they're total, you don't even have feelings. Absolutely. Absolutely. You don't have feelings, but that masculinity part that you're doing, we don't need that either.
00:10:30
Speaker
No, and I think there's a lot of that happening where women, we can we don't need men. We can just do this ourselves. And really what we're saying is like, you know, I'm not just the fixer. I also, you know, we have our reasons and we, and needs to also feel and be sensitive. That is part of our masculinity is part of our kindness is part of all these other things we bring into masculinity, not just force. I think again, that's what, what it's been equaled with and it's it's in for. Yeah, in sports too. I always hear. you See a high school kid that barely do a push up or pull up his coaches and parents. They mean well from and they said you need to get bigger.
00:11:14
Speaker
And I'm like you're playing tennis or pitching a baseball. You don't need to get bigger. You need to get stronger. They're totally different because you can look at the best throwers in baseball. There's 300 different pitchers now have a different body type and they're not all looking like bodybuilders. And we have this thing where and if you look in football. you have all these different positions and their body types require a different look you know so it shouldn't make sense and and i think that's the same thing in masculinity
Activities for Vulnerability and Connection
00:11:41
Speaker
what are you talking about should have a different look it just shouldn't be this suck it up you know don't cry uh be a man you know i mean that's very tough i think for men
00:11:55
Speaker
whether they're in touch with a masculine or not, when you're in a relationship, I feel men are very vulnerable around and after, you know, sexual experience. I mean, you're fully, I just might as well open and of course you want to live up to the woman's experience and do all this stuff, but I mean, if you're in
00:12:14
Speaker
If you're not in good mindset, I think, I know how can you stay in a relationship for the guy and the girl, you know, and then you bring in all these past things. And if you haven't dealt with them, I just, how do you, how do you want to clog, clog all that? Right. Especially the past and present very close together and all the things happening at that time. And, and I just, I feel like, uh, what you're saying too is like, you know, it's okay for us to be vulnerable and have feelings, have the emotions, but so many, um I don't think are really, I don't know, feel like or told they they don't have a place to do that. as um I don't know. and and And that's really what I'm trying to open up is that we, it's not that we want men to be all emotional and crying with us all the time, but we have to open up that we all have this, that we can't just discount the whole gender and say they don't have feelings and they don't even think about these things, which means there's not an opportunity for you to do that, right?
00:13:12
Speaker
I mean for the men to go, I'm going away for the weekend and be with my Cherokee chief or my on the mount top. And so, you know, and and you're doing it and you have a great partner that is, you know, of course, you know, matching you in that place right now. Absolutely. What are you seeing, even though we're not generalizing, what would be a general thing you would say to men, right? Come on men, you know, let's, or And I'm fine because, you know, stereotypes and generalizing are just means it's the majority generally happens. and and And we've been talking about we know that it's so individualistic on a spectrum. You know, real quick, there's three types of guys that I remember going out with and not say and I don't know which one will good or bad. There was all mix except there were guys that thought
Growth Through Change
00:14:00
Speaker
every girl in the world wanted to sleep with them if they just walked in a bar and bought them a drink.
00:14:04
Speaker
There were guys that thought they were just the the worst person in the world and nobody would ever like them. And then there was the other ones that are going and feeling, let's go dance, let's try to create conversation and see where it goes. um So you have all those different, like what makes a person think when they walk in somewhere that they're just gonna get jumped up? you know I don't understand, but that's real. it's it's It doesn't mean they stayed like that. So I would say that's where that conversation needs to happen. and For me, I was one of those guys that liked it. Well, let's go dance or play pool or shuffleboard and go figure this thing out, because at least you're going to have fun either way. You know, most time you go home alone and that's fine, but it was like you're you're creating a skill set where the other ones took a long time to do, you know, and then the other guys needed some courage or some because they just felt very like, you know, what was me, you know, like sub rock and and I'm insignificant. I'm not like this. So.
00:14:59
Speaker
And that's when I've been to talk in the groups where I think the men, they they need to find and start. So what do you have some connection with, that you know, whether it's building cars, whether it's, you know, hiking, planning, you know, I think just finding activities to to share and be a little bit vulnerable and not that I'm better than you, that we all have things, you know, we're all going to heal each other. Sometimes I need to get help and I need a hand up and then I need to be the guy helping somebody and pulling them up and it doesn't stop. And I think, activity on what you love. There's nothing right way. I like i love the trails. I don't like the gym. I gave up my three gym memberships in 2008. I live in an area where I don't need them. I don't think gyms are bad. Some people love them. Keep them. Find where you need to be. I wish I was a car guy. I'm just not that mechanically inclined, but I respect it.
00:15:50
Speaker
but I know guys from all ages, there's two teenagers at my work that are just getting into cars and there's 70 year olds building cars. I'm like, you guys need to talk because guess what? Those 18 year olds will probably get a lot of benefit from maybe going and having a little bit of coffee or tea with these older guys building their cars that have some money. And how did they build your business? How did you do that? You know, and I think that's a very significant on finding things that you're, You like to do cooking. I mean, cooking, man. More people, I mean, I love to cook. I can cook for three or four people well. Anything over that, I'm a train wrecking. So that's a whole different art. But I mean, those are great things to get going and get together. Mixing cocktails or or anything, whatever. There's just some passion, you know, and some art you you bring. I've gotten a group that they like to either talk about mezcal or sake. And I just like to go and talk because
00:16:45
Speaker
I just like to see what's out there and just to see where the conversation goes. And it's maybe once a year for each one. It's not big, but it's just a conversation piece to help you in touch with what's going on because we're all hurting. When a mom passes away, when we lose a pet, I mean, that brings us to your hardest tender and you start talking. But if you have those relationships built up, I think you can do that more often than when your just heart is broken and real tender. Tender might be because you just lost and you don't know what to do. you know Yeah, and nowhere often to express that. I had a guy here um ah do some sound baths sometimes, and for some reason, he just started tearing up a little bit, right? Just had a little tear, and he didn't really know why, and there's no reason to you know delve into it at the time. um But I asked him, because I was just starting this inquiry with moments with men, and I said, so would you actually have been able to you know tell the guys that you had a little tear? He said, oh, no. No, no, no.
00:17:46
Speaker
Huh. Right. um I'm a crier. I'm a crier. I just, I've never been anything other and it's never been, I've never tried to embarrass it. I cry with joy as well. Like I'll sit around and just, I think it's, I don't know, it's enlightening. I think I'm pointing out to the support that you felt from the beginning. That means you're able to let some things flow, change, grow, evolve in your life, not be so stuck in state. And, you know, I'm also an astrologer. So, you know, we don't, there's 12 places on the wheel, not just three, meaning men are only, you don't have to only be the provider protector.
00:18:25
Speaker
father, um what if you're the actual emotional quality of the relationship and some are but they're not allowed to be even the women go, hey, you shouldn't be so sensitive, right? yeah Whereas they're actually perhaps more the sensitive one or, you know, you need to feel things instead of think through things. And I just don't like you've just said, um it does take some courage and some practice, I think just stay in touch with some of those things if you want to, or You know, you yeah you've what you've really told is a story of of someone who's been able to really bring in that feeling, function and sensitivity that was already there and balance it with being a strong man. It doesn't mean either or. yeah you know um agree That's what I see. How do you feel about it? No, I do. And it's it's about and it's it's constantly adapting. I'm very comfortable and I've always liked mine. I think you need to start there. Do you like and love yourself?
00:19:23
Speaker
Um, you know, and you have to even know when you screw up, you know, and believe me, I'm not, there are things that, you know, I'm just, I'm just not good at, you know, and, and, or I handle poorly. And, uh, and, but it's just, is there, there's enough strength and light to know that I'm always trying to get better. You know, I always know I can learn from anybody, you know, whether I go to a kindergarten, I can learn from watching a little kid tell me something or play, you know, it doesn't have to be scalp scholastically. I can. you know, just learn going to the grocery store, just seeing how somebody does them. So there's always learning opportunities. And I think knowing who we are, as allow you to make growth and change, um which is adaptability, you know, and that's what it's all about.
Supportive Partnership Dynamics
00:20:06
Speaker
Because um I don't, I shouldn't be the same person I was a year ago, let alone 20 years ago. I'm not a hockey player anymore. I was.
00:20:14
Speaker
I was a long time ago, like I'd talked about my kettlebell lifting, I haven't done it in five years. That was a whole nother lifetime ago. And that was a different being that got me to where I am now. And now it's an exploration of just slow down the aging process. But finding joy in what we're supposed to right now, you know, and um that's a beautiful thing, you know, and and again, from a person that was an A to B guy in my past and present, to be able to be enlightened. And again, I still got to work at it, but it's just there's so much more future and hope, you know, and, and if I don't get to do things, it's it's okay, I can find other things to do things. So it's just, it's just, and I don't want to miss out on things. I want to be active where I can, you know, I never been a regret guy. I always want to say I don't want to be and say, Oh, I wish I would have gone. Like, I wish I would have went to a reunion.
00:21:04
Speaker
Uh, it's not comfortable. You don't know how it's going to be. I'm like, just be yourself and just go. I don't want to be like, I should have went. Everybody had fun. You know, it's like, just go put yourself out there. But that's, I always do. I never want to regret when you're, when you pass people that you may know, I, it's a big town and I still go back and there's a lot of people I know from work or growing up, not a lot, but there's enough. And you never know when you're going to run to the person, whether you want to run into them or not. And oh, am I looking good? Or did I just get down from a song on a sweaty mask? But I never wanted to be like, oh, there's that person, but I don't want to see him right now. you know Because it just it feels not authentic. And I think it's always better when you just step up and say, hi, how are you doing? you know Good to see you. It's been a while. And then move on. You don't have to be best friends and go do it. But it's always just such a nice exchange of energy. And when I've screwed up on that, I've always like, oh.
00:22:03
Speaker
ah what happened, like energy is gone or something happened, it wasn't good. So and that's what life and experience is to do is put yourself out there. And life will give you some cool things, you know, some very cool experiences. So but I just being the more in tune we can be with different, more tentacles we had to feel. and to see and taste and all those senses is what it's about. Like there's something about cooking with herbs and citrus and all this. And I was a pretty plain pallet, but I've added shallots and garlic, you know, and all this stuff. And I'm like, it's just fun. And sometimes like, well, I overdid it. That didn't go so well.
00:22:43
Speaker
but it's really nice to hit those, that tongue has all those sensory areas, like five or six areas, it's good to hit them all. um You know, not as intense with all of them, but it's really good. Like I have a Serrano chili plant and I have limes and mint, and somehow the citrus and the heat from the Serrano just works so good together. So I know that's stupid, but it's just being aware. and kind to burn I say it's not stupid. It's a creative endeavor, again, that isn't always seen as a masculine thing. Well, unless you're making money as a chef, right? Yeah, true. And but you said being able to feel puts you in touch with what's you're what you're passionate about, what you makes you feel feel good, which is part of your authenticity, which means you can show up as yourself, no matter who is in front of you, no matter where you go. And I just feel like, you know, that's not
00:23:36
Speaker
That's been something that hasn't been instilled perhaps in yeah a lot of people like you've gotten to. You just diagnosed me with something. I did i just hit a thought. There are certain times I'm very peculiar what I want to eat or what I want to watch or do. And there are certain times where I don't give a raps. I don't want to make any decision. I don't care. And now I'm thinking about that. It's when I'm not feeling, it's when I'm either tired, depressed, what was me and I don't feel and I don't care. I'll go without eating and I will have 50 in my 54 54 now. And I'll sit there and out like I would when I was a little kid, that somebody took my blanket, you know, and it's like, but I'm not feeling and I didn't know that until you just said that I'm not feeling.
00:24:24
Speaker
Well, okay, thank you for that because that's part of the, ah ah um again, another part of the studies I do is trauma work and on this vagus nerve. And you just said it when I go back to just pouting like I was a little kid. Yeah, something that was programmed in that vagus nerve from that. And it actually, this is my response as well, takes us into what's a frozen response. where, you know, it's almost freezes the hunger. so Like, I don't even know I'm hungry. I can't feel if I'm hungry or, you know, got i anything is's like so I'm blank. The face is blank. All of that. I don't, I don't care about. And, and that's one of the first things that goes is self-care to where I wouldn't even like to eat myself, you know? So now my question is, okay, if I don't want to eat or I don't want to cook, why do I not want to take care of myself? Yeah. Right. And that's, um,
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, I can see that. I mean, this the snowballing effect and it's like neighbor, turn your music down, you're pissing me. I mean, I could just see this whole beast come out. And if that's somebody's everyday life, how dangerous I also was taught when I was going through depression, I would be very much a spectator and passive. I was taught to participate, just step out and just be involved, you know, and These are all making sense. This is this this why this is beautiful because things that are and people might say, what are they taught? But for me, I'm tasting and feeling that, of being inactive, not feeling, or shutting down. I know now when I feel depressed that I just have to participate and move. I just have to just go. Now you just gave me the enlightenment of when I am feeling this, ah and I don't even think Jeff at three or four was,
00:26:11
Speaker
a prick like I can be when I'm not feeling. You know, like, again, just moping. I know I want to eat, but I'm not I'm not doing anything about it. Screw you, world. You owe me. I'm not doing a thing about you. And you could just see if I'm letting that drive my life. I mean, feminine or masculine. I mean, that's just that's what's happening, I think, is a lot of people are not living in not being connected to their own self. Well, I would say As a collective, we're all really not all. Most of us are in a general state of being frozen where we can't feel anything below here. We're unaffected, meaning our face goes flat. We can't even want to don't want to look at people. look at you They walk right by you, won't even show any expression. And some of that vagus nerve shuts down our facial expression. Sometimes a trick where we can just go into the face. If we realize we're frozen, start stimulating the face a bit.
00:27:08
Speaker
smile, we're going to make some ugly faces here, but, you know, getting that moving again. And now, now let's apply that to people who don't even know that this is happening, that are eating mindlessly are, you know, they're, they're actually in more of a frozen state. So they actually can't feel what you've been talking about. Wow. I noticed this makes me feel a certain way. I want to get in the shower. I don't feel as good when I don't, you know, those kinds of things. Completely cut off and never even thought we needed to do this, right? Yeah. I could look at coworkers I work with and I'm not judging it, but I can see like when we're productive in meetings and when we're not. Yeah. And you could see like, holy cow, no wonder why people used to probably kill each other because all that guy's trying to backstab me or take my job. So Caesar, take them out. The other thing that happens is when our face goes flat,
00:28:06
Speaker
we're not out when we don't care about all these things for a bit, then we're not giving safety cues to others. Safety cues come from soft eyes and smiles and you know that I'm comfortable and safe to be around but when I'm like that, no safety cues for children and for other people who may be triggered by not getting a smile. Like, oh my God, they didn't smile at me. Uh-oh. You know, I mean, I'm not saying we're responsible for everybody's triggers, but we just, that was the snowballing thing about, you know, just, we don't even realize, and this is unconscious and it normally is not something we can go back and go, oh, that's because my mother or father said this when I was three or four years old, no wonder I've gone into this frozen state. It's unconscious. We won't be able to really make sense of it.
00:28:57
Speaker
So all we can do is just notice when we're in it. Yeah, start moving around, you know. um Again, that question for me is why do I not want to take care of myself? um and when And even in society, we're told, well, that's selfish to only want to take care of yourself. I mean, and it goes on down the line, you know, just selfish to even think of ourselves. So. Which is yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, if you don't like who you are, how can you be do good for others? I mean, there's no way, you know, or even for yourself, or even for yourself, why would you take, why would you make the investment even in yourself? And especially when you're told you're not even with the investment, you know, men don't do those things. Yeah, weekends, you know, yeah, whatever.
00:29:41
Speaker
Um, well, so I want to jump we we were almost to the end here. And so, um, you have a wonderful relationship and, you know, Oh gosh, what should we admit 20 years ago? And in our so how does this, how does this relationship, um, support your ability to, um, you know, explore and express the masculinity that you bring to the table? Um, hopefully without repressing that, because I think it's easy for women to repress it. So what does she do not do? and You know, speak to, her that a bit. You know, that that's very good. I mean, we're constantly growing. We are when when we butt heads, we're like brother and sister. It was the only time I felt like even we were dating that I knew this was probably the one because
00:30:27
Speaker
I never felt unloved when we would battle or bump heads. I felt that in the past. you know Maybe that was my fault, maybe probably a combination of ah both in the relationship. But it was the one time where I felt like we could really get after it. And usually there was an insecurity driving both of us or one of us more than the other. But then
Navigating Life Changes as a Couple
00:30:45
Speaker
but I never felt the love was or the care was part of it. I felt unconditional like I got from my mom and dad. So that's able to go there. She's very strong, always been by taking care of herself her whole life since she's been a youngster. um So always go, go, go. I've always appreciated that. I've also liked when she's a woman, you know, to dress up or just to be and to let us do our roles. And generally we we fall into who we are.
00:31:17
Speaker
And unless it's a really big deal, one of us will state that. Like, this is why, and this is why I care. and or This is what I think is going on. If we're going to spend money in a certain way, then if it's a little decision that's going to help you out, I don't need to be a part of that, you know and vice versa. But if it's something that's going to be substantial, but we're looking to improve our education, to improve our return on investment, or whatever that might be, then it like we should talk about it a little bit and then at the end of the day if you really feel that passion and make that decision I mean as a masculine
00:31:53
Speaker
I'm pretty into my masculinity, but I'm not this macho, but I'm, you can make a good decision, you know? She can't, what I'm talking about, Shannon, she can make a good decision. Even though I might not agree with it, if she hears me out and can move forward and still make a good decision, at the end of the day, I trust her enough. I don't think she's gonna be wasteful, you know? So I don't have to worry about that. I can still be heard and she can still make her decision. And I feel like the same with me too. Like sometimes it's easier for me to bring our dog Trigger and drive to Arizona. And then she can't go because she's got to stay and maybe work a little bit. It sucks that we have to get broken up. But I would rather take my dog he in hand with my dad, our dog, instead of me just flying out there. So it's more of that experience. So I know that's weird. But yeah, it's it takes us apart. But there's a greater good of
00:32:48
Speaker
my dad in trigger kind of hanging out, you know, then versus me flying there and I'm leaving him here when he's working, you know, she's working and it it hurts. We had a tough holiday decision to make this year as my first Christmas without my mom and ah the so the Christmas before me and Shannon were going to her brother's in Denver. And I'm like, our dog's, you know, he's, he's 12 now, but he was so 10 and a half then 11. I'm like, he's getting old. I'm not leaving him by himself. So we drove to Denver, which was kind of old school thinking you grew up in the seventies and eighties. It's normal, but today the fast pace, it doesn't make sense. So we drove through some snow and ice. It was interesting, but it was, it was great, but we got to have our dog trigger with us for Christian. So.
00:33:36
Speaker
Fast forward, my mom's path is away. And her brother had his first child. So she it was a first Christmas with her being an aunt and my first Christmas without my mom. So we split up for Christmas. it we know We took it as a hit, but she needed to be with her mom and brother and aunt and niece. And me and my sister needed to be with my dad. And my dad, of course, is saying, forget about me. Just go with your life. And Shannon, I'm like, well, going to get through this but I think it was there was no good decision but I think it was the best thing we could do. um I know so when it comes to things like that and we but we do have to be careful that we take enough time and and we read together. um not We're pretty consistent. We take some marriage counseling about being in relationship and even sexual stuff as we get older and change and just
00:34:29
Speaker
Like, how do we keep connecting in these ways? so um And I think she appreciates that, like, when when we pray together or just do things, I know she really it really works for her. Like, she really enjoys that part of that knowing that I'm in and there caring about our heart and our past, it's and it's not about domination. um So anyways, I think a lot of it is is a spiritualness, and I believe there's so many different spiritual ways you can get there, what resonates with you. um And for us, it works out to have that in in our life and knowing that there's a lot of greater things out there. And it's okay, it's not oppressive to be a man and to
00:35:08
Speaker
to act a certain way and to desire certain things, but it's it's it's holding each other accountable, you know and vice versa. She's not trying to domineer or manipulate me. It's it's a trust thing. And so when that trust, I think we have that trust. And again, our fights are hilarious because they're so moronic and childlike and we're not that way. you know It might be a tense case or this or that. And then we start, hopefully I catch on and say, well, wow, what an idiot, but it's just like, are you serious? Like they're, but the trust is there and the love is there. So, um, it helps, you know, and like, uh, it was scary cause we didn't choose to live together before we got married. So I'm saying I want, I want to never live alone ever again, ever. So, and you figure you're older, we got married, I was 38. So I figured, I figured it out, been through two before I'm worked on it much better. That first six months was brutal. I mean, because,
00:36:06
Speaker
it was cool, but we still were older, but you're more set in your roots and your ways. And so I thought I'm like, am I just meant to be alone? Am I just like, and I know that's not true because I do believe we're companion and all that. And, but we worked through it and it was like, it was harder than I thought, you know, for her too, you know, sleeping schedules are different, you know, and just, yeah, life, money, of course, when we get married, I, lost a third of my income by choice, but it it it took about two years and got back. But as a man, you're just getting married and now you, I'm giving up some, I just couldn't work for this person any longer. I'm like, I can't do it. So I know I'm giving up a third part of my income, but it's just morally, I can't do it. And so, and I'm ah knowing as a guy and being a little older at 38, I'm like, oh
00:36:53
Speaker
That's the two biggest things and as a male, you want to be a provider and you want to be like sexually connected with your, I mean, those are two important things. And I'm like, well, money, I'm already stressing this out. That's not a good start, but it ended up being good because then other opportunities opened up. You know, you put, I called it manure. You put fertilizer on it, it stinks, it smells, but eventually you get a lot of growth. So
Balancing Energies in Relationships
00:37:16
Speaker
with work into it. So anyways, that's what we try to do is just be who we are. And then, grow with who werere <unk>re we're changing and who we are together. um And trying not, we get pulled by the weight of the world. I mean, social media, ah trying to, luckily in my business the last 10 years, um first time I have a job versus instead of working for me, so it's a little more consistent. She still works for herself, so she's kind creating content and doing things, which as you know, never stops. And it's hard sometimes to put
00:37:47
Speaker
Priorities like she likes to eat earlier, which is healthier and I don't get home till later. So she's just started cooking a little earlier or prepping. So when I get home, it's like we're eating closer to her time. And it's just, it's it's better for me. So it helps. oh Days that I'm off, like Fridays and Saturdays are my days off. I mean, all I'll prep and do all the cooking and do all that. It just works. So it's learning to help each other out. Like when I'm from a long week and it's Thursday night, our trash cans go out. I usually take them out Thursday morning just to get ahead and I get all late. And then sometimes she'll have like the trash already done for me.
00:38:22
Speaker
which isn't feminine right but it's just nice that we're helping each other out when we can versus oh it's tit for tat she's going to help me out because she wants something right right so um it's a good balance and i think we're setting ourselves up good to grow old with each other you know and learning as things go uh pretty open you know i think that helps but it helps from trust like i'm not afraid to tell her my shortcomings and failures in our relationship and i do want to become a better man a better husband you know and And it's just ongoing, you know? And I think she wants the same thing, which I shouldn't, I'm thinking, saying, I'm thinking, but that's how she is. So um yeah. And I think she is, she is the desire to want to become better. Yeah. you know Well, I think that's important to you. You've grown up that way, like never, like not being afraid of a challenge and putting yourself out there and also having, like you said, at first, the goals, the future seemed way out, but it's right here. And then, you know, that's going to take some, some things, some efforts, some work, some constancy of purpose. We both want this. So now how do we get there? You know, some mapping, you know, and like really setting yourself up with a foundation that's not by, you know, and maybe that takes some years and some maturity as well. Like all that you've learned to be able to be humble and open to get in touch with your sensitive nature while maintaining strength doesn't mean, you know,
00:39:50
Speaker
being weak or too, you know, sloppy, emotional or whatever that I think it often gets equated with and that you're both meeting each other and working together. And like, isn't that in my, in my astrology school, we call this, there's a word for it. guylanic g y l a n i c And it means working together. You know, we've had a time, there were times of matriarchy. right when it was all about the the woman owning the land and that's where the word husband bond comes from and husband all that kind of stuff and then it's patriarchy and that overtook and now it's all about control so how about it's not about either you know and I think that's where sometimes the message has gotten also distorted as like rise of the women only the women only the women and we don't need the men we don't need the men I'm like whoa whoa wait a minute you literally I don't care what they tell you literally can't create without both
00:40:42
Speaker
exactly masculine feminine energy, even within yourself. So let's not, you know, put disparage masculine energy in of itself, because it comes in many different expressions. So thank you. Again, you've shown us to how that balanced, you know, man who is in touch with owns his strength, um his valor, right? Yeah. Carl Jung says know to to be a man is to know your sword and know how to use it. Absolutely. That doesn't mean just go around stabbing everybody. Sometimes the the sword is right by your side. It's like you said, some some express this way and some express that way. And can we just allow that instead of no, it must only be this way or it's weak or you're not a man or you're not needed.
00:41:37
Speaker
And so I appreciate seeing, you know, the picture of that and really where it comes from. You spoke it, you know, I had this, this web of support and love, and then you spoke how it's reflected back to you with your wife who says that we can fight, but I know that there's always, I always felt love. There wasn't an absence of love. So even back to the, on the field, right? I mean, the guys would tackle me, but I knew it was like for my own good, you know, yeah yeah a little bit more. well In my two prior with marriages, one was just manipulation, diabolic. We each had our part in it. You know, it's never one or the other. So bad choice, bad selection, whatever, boom. And that was, that was hard. I didn't think that would happen. The second one was more of a heartache because we didn't want to burden each other. So we, we, we didn't, it's not that the question of, of, of, of love or or what I want to say, or, uh,
00:42:35
Speaker
unconditional it wasn't there, but it's just we didn't connect and it just built up too much, you know, and it's like we were trying not to hurt each other and we hurt ourselves. So Now I got a little bit of of the good of them all is like, hey, we're not, we still have that unconditional, we're not just trying to hurt each other. But when we do get after it, it's not manipulative. You know, it's just irritable life stuff, you know, and and that's it. And you know, I didn't mean to come up either or sound that way or vice versa. Why was your tone that way? I just come in and want to see you smile, you know, but
00:43:11
Speaker
I'm trying to finish something, you know, and im I'm just as guilty of that. I receive it and I give it. So it's like, you know, but when we come home, I see your dog walk and I got this guy over here. yeah i know yeah get happy He's just ready to greet us both. You know, he's whining if we're in the garage too long. Like, come on, let's go. And yeah, me and her need to be, and we laugh. We're like, yeah, we need to greet each other like that. You know, drop what we're doing. It's so important. I'm doing this. I'll be just give me two minutes and it's just amazing what it can change. And when we fail, it's like, Oh, we could have prevented that. So that's interesting. You said that I was married for 24 years. And of course we get through many ups and downs. And I will say we were passionate, which means a lot that way and everything else. And we did go to counseling one time. And that's actually the first thing, the first homework she gave us is that when the other, when you're big love it,
00:44:07
Speaker
walks into a room, like notice them, say something, acknowledge that they walked into the room, um you know, hello, I mean, you know, um yeah again, how many relationships and marriages devolve into, they walked into the room, I'm leaving, or some, or some of that, but it takes that work, it takes the goal, the common goal of no, we're not actually going to devolve into that. And so, You know, energy. I mean, when I get home, I got about a 20, 30 minute where we'll communicate about the day. And then I want to go instead of decompressing, I'm decomposing. Like I just want to shut down and read, watch something mindless or do cry. I love puzzles and reading. So, but it's like, and our windows are off because then she's been working hard all day and she's ready to start sharing. So we kind of have a humor about it, but it's amazing how just energy and timings are, and we have to work through it.
00:45:02
Speaker
But to know that about each other instead of expecting each other to show up exactly how you would, right? And again, I could go into astrology to say that it's okay. It's just they do this differently. And this sounds like what you found with your second marriage is like, it's just not fitting. It's not working. And that sometimes can be told by just our own astrological energy. And that makes it okay. It's okay. It doesn't have to fit every, you know, the models that are out there, which is what I'm coming at. with, with this, you know, um, this inquiry into this moments with men to hear everyone, uh, many different expressions or percept, perspectives on what it means, you know, yeah ben um in different ways. And I've really enjoyed that. And I've enjoyed hearing this from you too. You know, I've just seen some of the different, I've seen my dad's top, but I have the other guys queued up and just cause I, again, it's so important to hear because masculinity is on a spectrum.
00:46:00
Speaker
But I
Tribal Dynamics and Cooperation
00:46:01
Speaker
think at all, like most religions or spirituality, there's so much more connectedness and disconnectedness. you know And even politics, there's so much more connectedness in people. We just see the little things that we don't, but having the virtuous things, or that's all we're trying to be. To try to be a better human being, to try to become a better man is very masculine. And better, like I say, maybe some violence happens, but it's not provoking. It's not aggression. It's not force-feeding something. um Also learned along the way, they were showing these Mediterranean tribes from probably millennials ago. And I could relate it to the tribes of North America, Middle East, et cetera. He goes, there's generally three types of tribes. There were savages that wanted to kill everything around them. There were ones that were had no violence in their ah tribe ever. And then there was the medium one that would only be
00:46:58
Speaker
get violent if they were threatened so i'm like you know what that so when somebody we start talking history i don't know why i'm going here but oh they're also peaceful or they're all savages like no it was just like how we are they were all this some got along some didn't and if you had a better watering watering hole or hunting ground than i did and we're friendly we work together if not we're gonna fight and it's usually killing and enslaving the captors, right? It's just how it was, you know, and still is to this day to to a different degree. But to understand that there are just certain societies and brains dealt a certain way, just like there are certain men that are a certain way. But I think the ones that really have the virtuous and growth, you know, are just bettering. Same with females, you know, we do need each other to coexist.
00:47:50
Speaker
It's much better that way. You know, it's, uh, we're different for me and we should be different, you know, and every guy's different, every girl's it's how it should be. but like Yeah. i don't break it But I think again, where is it coming from? Is it manipulative? Is it growth? Where are we? What's the motivation or what are the
Social Media's Transition
00:48:10
Speaker
roadblocks or hindrances we have? Again, thank you for exposing. I said I powdered or act like a punk when I don't feel. you know So now I know, wow, when i'm when I'm starting to kick and scream like ah like a punk, I better start feeling, and if I can't feel, then go move a little bit. Go do something that makes me feel.
00:48:30
Speaker
so um Yeah, those are, again, never too old to learn and to practice under stress. Like most of the athletes I work with, they're absolutely perfect. But then what's their decision making under stress? I'm sure, even in playing music forever, why do certain people thrive under stress and certain people collapse? And some people stay the same. You know, it's the same thing as a third. When I got to every level of sports I got to, a third would happen. A third would get better. A third would stay the same. And a third would regress. Mentally, they just weren't there. you know And what why was that? Maybe they their expired time or it's just they didn't know how to handle not being the guy you know or failure because i mean those are things that happened. So um how do we handle under stress? And then how do we recognize that in our own life and our relationships are of the most important? you know like When do we recognize like that? why Why am I being short with even my dad or why am I my sister or you know my wife? why Why am I doing that?
00:49:30
Speaker
What's the cause? Well, I love that visual you gave. Well, usually because the past and the present are right here somewhere, you know, yeah um um to be manipulative in relationships, usually coming from, I'm not going to get it if I don't manipulate it. And the other thing we talked about connecting with being outside and creating space, even if it's going to look at the moons and the stars and all that, and just seeing stuff and just going, wow, it's just crazy, crazy what I don't understand, which is fascinating. But Facebook, I think I was invited to join in 2008. I didn't know what the heck is Facebook. But okay, being from Huntington Beach, going to school in Massachusetts, going to college in Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, New York, you name it. And then being in a ah ah business where people around the world, Swedish, Russian, you know, Finnish, Ukraine, all over the place, Australian, it was such a cool thing to connect.
00:50:29
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, and I think 2012 or 14, it just started getting ridiculous. And I realized it started sucking life out of me versus it used to bring life's like, Oh i got my God, I
Family, Community, and Accountability
00:50:45
Speaker
haven't seen this person while they got a family now, or this person is doing a kettlebell lift. Let me see their video on how they're training. It was a great way. And then all of a sudden it's now, it's just bombarded with, and I'm not saying it, and then i then more social media has come out. And so I'll go on, I usually get on on my birthday and thank people. Cause it's nice to hear saying happy birthday. It is nice. And then I get trapped for, my mom passed away. They had on my mom's page. So I'd get on and check in, but then I would start finding myself, you know, dilly-dallying on there more. And I'm like, it's just so painful, you know? And same thing with, with, uh, I know people have to be on ah Instagram and other Twitter and all that and Z X, whatever they're calling everything.
00:51:28
Speaker
but if they're they're not doing what's the consistency of purpose, right? It's gonna eat your life away versus having boundaries and use it for your benefit. I had it a lady I worked with, her husband, she hated, they're older, they're in their 70s, probably in their 80s now, but he would call her and say, hey, what do you need from the market I'm going? And she would tell him I need X, Y, and Z. And then she would call him back because she forgot something and he would never answer. And he she goes, and she get home, she mad at him. She goes, well, why didn't you answer your phone? He goes, well, when I'm done using it, I power it off. Cause I don't, I don't want to talk to anybody. So he, he used the phone as a tool, you know, when he wanted to use it, he turned it off.
00:52:13
Speaker
regardless. And when he was done, he turned it off. And I thought, I wish we could do that with all these interactive things that are good for life. Like we're doing this, you know, over the the technology, but then other parts of it just just take away. And I'm he's guilty. I mean, two minutes, there's no such thing as two minutes. It turns into two hours. and Right. and Exactly, and I think it's why I call it what you but you describe too after you have to come home from work and you need that 20, 30 minutes. I call it an unpeopling. I do a whole day. I'm like having a whole unpeopling day, which unfortunately is sometimes when I have to say, oh, so sorry, I didn't get right back to you, but come on. We used to be okay with people not getting back to us for like a day. Like we would leave a message to them like an answering machine and then maybe they'd turn The it creates, right?
00:53:03
Speaker
And if you don't do the thumbs up or the all this stuff on texting, it's like, well, did you get it or not? I mean, the whole anxiety we've created, it's kind of funny. Like I try to laugh at it. be a Mel Brooks or the old Sarah out live, just try to laugh at stuff like that. But it's like, I'm involved. It's kind of funny, but it keeps us from feeling too. Because again, we're here from here to here. Sorry, I have a bug in my face right now. But um yeah, from here to here. So we're not feeling again. It's all mechanisms to keep us from this. So good for you. Right? Because it's an effort. It's an effort to to return to that feeling function to
00:53:37
Speaker
own your all your emotional life, really, own emotional life, that's where the goal the gold is, ah you know, God gave us emotions for this reason to know how you felt about something. So then you could act on that, not be told what how you feel about it. And so I appreciate you really, because that's an inspiration, you know, it can be done, even in a from someone that had a very linear mind still does still very good at making plans and strategies and goals and getting there. So that takes that linear thinking doesn't mean we can't have both. And so I've seen, you know, and it comes at our responsibility, right? And I see all ages like I, I mean, my mom would get on it too. And I'm like, we're right here, you know, let's, let's be together. Our people at dinner together. It's just, Oh, I thought I blocked that. I got it. That's okay. Uh, I don't want to talk right now.
00:54:35
Speaker
Oh, my dad's calling in. Oh, yeah. OK, good. Hi, dad. There we go. yes I guess that's our cue. That's our cue. But you're right. It's taking responsibility and, you know, for our own actions, our own emotional life, our own partners. At the end of the day it's a feel because you know like this is good or this is not good. It's either taking or giving energy to you and nothing wrong with it. Great to keep in touch. Great to do things if you want to build business connections and again it's we have the power to do that and again when I manage that well
00:55:09
Speaker
I feel a lot better in life than when I allow it to manage me. When I succumb to it, then I'm generally not as happy and clear. it's just it It's just how it works. There's something about it. It does have an off button. And when you're more clear and and feeling good, then you're more likely to take care of yourself. and do the things to do to keep yourself healthy and keep balance, you know, and have good relationships. You know, whether you're in a relationship or not, life's about relationships. Really um because that's where it plays out. All this stuff that goes on in our head plays out, you know, works as well. yeah So I'm really happy for you and for your wife and thank you Thank you.
00:55:55
Speaker
It's so interesting to have gotten to talk to your father and to you in these ways and and how it it woven it wove together a bit, but you've had your own experience, right? What a great foundation, but your own experience, you know? And my mom and dad, that's how they, rate that's how they parented it was about having opportunities and experiences. And we just had to fulfill certain levels of commitment. And, but opportunity was always given and failure was too, you know, and it was, ah It was good. Yeah, and it shows. And it's ah and we are different. We're different people. um And I, we have a different relationship than for every 10 years of my life, it it does change. um And it doesn't mean it always change. Like, oh, it's always better. No, it's just yeah different. It's different, you know, but going back to so our relationship up, yeah he just turned 84. So
00:56:52
Speaker
you know And with my mom passing, we look at things a little differently. you know It's still bizarre to think of him you know looking at him like it was my grandparents. I remember graduating high school, my dad was my age or whatever. It's like, holy cow, how does this happen to our college? how fast but anyways it's a yeah that was cool he's I'm glad he did that with you and sparked this and it would be interesting to hear likes father sons talk about this and of course he was a huge uh he planted so many seeds and the seeds he mostly planted was to stay able to absorb everything around you you know and I know every man can't every dad can't give their son everything that son needs to go hopefully he's in an environment where he can go learn
00:57:37
Speaker
from other people in family and his community, teachers, you know, co-workers, you know, uncle, aunt, whatever that might be, that that's our, the community should be able to give that child what he needs, you know, and when he needs a foot in his ass and when he needs a pat on the back, you know, that's, there's reasons for that. There's reasons, I think we need to be held accountable to certain ways, you know, and I'm not advertising for violence by any means, but there's some times Tommy Lasorda was a baseball coach for the Dodgers. He passed away a while ago, very Italian looking guy and very animated. So when he was a little kid, his dad asked him to move one of his mom's porcelain or Chinese vases you know over from the mantle to the TV. So he's going over there to the mantle. He says, Tommy, before you get over there, come
00:58:31
Speaker
Come here to my chair. Tommy comes over, he goes, hold your hand up. And he, his dad whacks him on the hand and he's like, what did you spank me for? He goes, that's so you don't drop your mom's possessions because he, he was preventing a kid from just not thinking and just grabbing something and just throwing out a TV and dropping. Now that may be a little out of hand, but when Tommy explained that as a kid, he goes, no, the idea is to, when you're managing or coaching athletes or being their dad is you're trying to, prepare them and think ahead of time. Like the dad must have saw in his eyes that Tommy had these watery eyes and start daydream and it wasn't paying attention. So he gave a little swan on his hands to focus, pay attention. Now there's other ways to do that, but I think the idea is like very important. And that's what my dad had with me is I just need the accountability book.
00:59:21
Speaker
You know, bringing a note home from school was not fun. You know, I didn't do many of them. My parents would always hear my side, but they would always go with the school. Totally different these days, but at least my parents wanted to hear me. Punishment was coming. I didn't feel it was fair, but guess what? That's what life's all about. Dealing with things when it's not fair and unfair. and Now it wasn't unjust, but I might've done something, but maybe not as bad as it looked on what happened, but sorry, they're going with what the school says, you know, I needed to be reprimanded. So again, the consequences happening, you know, and I think those are good things, you know, all I had to do is make my bed and keep my room clean. No consequences. If I did that, if I didn't, there were consequences, you know, consequences, but always knew there was love there too. And you're talking about to having a community of family and a community of just
01:00:16
Speaker
people, you know, teachers and and other people in the community that teach that you are open, you are around and they were also teaching. So now it takes and minute now, you know, who have learned ah to turn around and, you know, be there to create a community for the ones coming up, it seems. um And, you know, I hope that's happening every town, every community is different, you know, um so that you really pointed out a, you've just shown us over this time, you know, how important that is, how important it is for the formation of you as a man, and, you know, the hope that that's happening in coming up now, you know.
01:01:02
Speaker
We had a, ah i I started a hockey club from my nephew, turned into like four teams in a year. It just grew. Everything was going well. And there were 10 and under at the time. And then we had two 12 and unders and then a 14 and under team at the time. And we had grade checks. And if they had bad grade checks, they weren't allowed to play in that game that night. They'd have to dress up and sit there kind of on the bench and happen. And at that same time, my nephew, we got him into taekwondo classes. And apparently they had grade checks too. And this isn't that long ago. This is literally like, he's 30, so 20. So it was 20 years ago. And my sister would take it with him. It was kind of cool that mother and son would take Taekwondo together. And he goes, uncle, he goes, they're doing grade checks. And if we don't do grade checks, we can't do our tests for our belt. And so it was kind of cool. I'm like, well, that that's kind of a good thing. And so he understood it, but it was like, there is an accountability.
01:02:01
Speaker
You know, and I did learn that from having that. I did it. I had coaches do consequences with me. It doesn't mean they they love me. And that's why they gave me consequences. Right. Same with teachers and parents. And I think that was the culture we wanted to create was, you know, it's you have to be a good as good as you can outside of that ice rink that you can inside. You know, because that impacts you. I remember we're playing the championship game. We had no business being in. We were overachieving and our best player pulled. A move that was just disgraceful. So he didn't play the rest of the game and some of the parents want to tear my head off saying we had a chance to win that game. Why don't you let that guy play? And I said, if you heard and saw what he did to another player in the team. I know he's the best player on our team, but I'm not doing him any favors by not.
01:02:54
Speaker
We lost, you know, we might not have won if he would have played. I'm not saying we would have won, but I'm like, there's no way. And hopefully down the road that carried on, because I'm more worried about what, again, what's he going to be like when he's out of high school, when he's, you know, had a college working and married and all that. So hopefully that was an impact. But those are things that were very easy to pass down. And like we talked about, that's where community comes into play. You know, I want to work with some orchestras here too and some musicians and not everybody can be in the first chair. If you're in the first chair of the violin, you have to be at a certain standard. That's it. And so it's really cool to see they and they kind of understand you can't fake it, right? When you're playing classical areas, you can't fake it. So um it is good, you know, and that lets them know where they are. And a lot of these musicians will never make money off of it, but
01:03:47
Speaker
from what they get from being able to focus for so long, concepts of purpose, they are going to benefit in their personal and business lives. you know So it's very important. Well, it's important if that's what you want, because everything everything else you just said, you know winning at all costs, doing it only for the money. out um That's the patriarchal way that we're hoping to balance back out and to heal from. We've all been under that. Men and women. Men and women and have been you know wounded by those ideas you know and acting out on, behaving on, making our way in that way instead of asking these deeper questions. OK, okay so all right wrap it up with maybe one thing. I loved this statement. but I want to go back to what did you say, because I think this is going to be in the first, in the explanation.
01:04:42
Speaker
Everything you choose when you're down, when you're down and out, yeah but and everything you choose at that time does what? It's going to get you to where you need to go. Something like that, right basically, right? Because when when you feel like you have zero power, you just got dumped, you lost your job, whatever, you feel like the world's falling down, but you're actually the most powerful you'll ever be because every decision directly impacts on where you're going to go. And I'm going to bring in too, you were empowered by those times they came, but you still always felt loved when you had to get reprimanded or or whatever happened, um but you but you weren't coddled. And I think that's the difference too.
01:05:32
Speaker
is that being held accountable, which means that means you were going to have to take responsibility for your own growth, the involvement, changing, even if that means getting more in touch with the heart. I remember, and I was probably 15, I went out and had some beers with my buddies. And then I ended up throwing up that night before I got home. And then I had a soccer game the next day at like 8.30 in the morning or nine. So I've never been hungover before. I never do any of this. And then it was miserable. My first time I had to head the ball, it was just nightmare. And so I get home from the game and my dad just throws a whiz at me. I thought I'm clean. Nobody knows what happened. you know And he's like, hey, he goes, ah next time you come in kind of like that, you might want to flush the toilet.
01:06:26
Speaker
So apparently I thought I, I didn't know I threw up in my toilet that night, but sorry for going to everybody. but hey and so here oh And here I'm thinking my ass is going to get chewed out. I'm going to be grounded for how knows who long. And I said, yeah, you know, I had like four beers, never had it in my life and that was fun. And next thing you know, it's just too much. and I go, so what's my punishment? He goes, watching you out on the field this morning was enough punishment. You know, that was, and I learned from that. So not to say I never screwed up again, but it was just like, that was a kind of like conversation we could have, you know, and it wasn't all about getting the belt out and spanking me for that. It was, there was a mental connection to like, man, I messed up my bad. And there was no one else to blame.
01:07:19
Speaker
You know, so the consequences was just having to talk about it and coming up and being factual about it. And how you already felt about it, you didn't kind of need anything extra. And it oh it wasn't my fault, dad, it was, you know, peer pressure it was the older brothers. No, no, it was my decision. So that was always, you know, always room for that. There was a time when I was playing summer baseball in Utah, my parents were there and I, in my baseball bag, I had a can of chewing tobacco. And It was in my baseball bag. I never did it in the house because I didn't want to disrespect my parents, you know? And all my dad said is like, if you're hiding it, probably isn't a positive thing in your life. And I just was like, scratching my head. I had pissed me off because I had no comeback because he was totally right. I'm hiding it because I'm embarrassed of it. yeah But again, that was the kind of teaching and I was like, for this day, I still remember
01:08:13
Speaker
the exact bag it was in where we were sitting at and i was like that was very profound i had nothing to say i'm like yeah you're right yeah yeah well thankfully you took it that way again you've taken these messages i think you've taken these messages because you felt it they still came from love not from trying to keep you down or make you not be who you are, you know, and seek your own authenticity. And I know from he wouldn't do that. he I think he's the one that said, just have the courage to be who you are. I think that was. That's true. Absolutely.
01:08:50
Speaker
So, and you've done it. So thank you so much, Jeff, for having this conversation with me. I loved going down all the different tendrils, as you call it, crazy yeah of your life. And I'm sure it keeps going. So I would love to- Well, thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing this for men and communities and for women and just for the human race. I mean, this is what these conversations and thought provoking is just, it's been so fun thinking about this. I don't know where it's going, but it's like, wow, this is this is what it's about. And I know it's going to continue to give around you know my tribe, who I'm with. so good Well, thank you so much for that. And I hope it's shared with women, too, I hope. you know I've had some women that come and say, I'm going to listen to this one tonight with my husband. So they can really start, you know maybe they haven't even had these conversations before. So that's what I'm hoping, again, it opens up
01:09:44
Speaker
um in the in the universe in some way that we can just start kind of thinking about this in a deeper way. So I really appreciate going down the the deep dives with you in this. um And I hope we could do it again. And how fun would it be to have you and Gene on at the same time? That would be fun. Well, you have a great trip. And then and know I'll be out there a couple of times this year. And hopefully you can see you. I know they had a good time. I think Saturday night you just played. So hopefully I can see you in action next time I'm there. Awesome. Thanks so much, Jeff. Thanks, everybody.