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Moments with JOHN
33 Plays5 months ago
"C'mon, men ... live in your truth! Be real, get real! Own what the heck is happening in your life. (And women), let's be in empowerment together."
My personal friend, mentor, and teacher, and world-renowned sound journeyman, and fellow shamanic astrologer, John Dumas shares his experience of a time in his life of intense anger and frustration that led to a weekend on a mountaintop to begin the process of redefining his ideas of what it meant to "be a man."
His passion and en-COURAGE-ment to live and to help others live in their true authenticity, in integrity and in gratitude invites us all to first treat ourselves with the same unconditional love we want our children to receive, and that we want to receive from others.
I truly feel and appreciate the frequency of unconditional love when I'm in John's and his partner, Ako's, presence. In this episode, John shares his journey and the courage it takes to "be a man" and be vulnerable and live from the heart at the same time.
To find out more about John and his work:
Thank you for supporting my work with "Moments with MEN!"
Contact me with comments, insights or to continue the discussion with me on your own episode ...
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
And I just have to hit OK. There we go.
Introduction and Purpose of 'Moments with Men'
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, everybody. I'm Lizzie Kay. Welcome to Moments with Men. I am here spending some moments with John Dumas. Hi, John. Hello, Lizzie. So thank you so much for coming to have this conversation with me because I like to open up space where a man and a woman can have conversations about the expressions of masculinity and what it means to be a man in this society.
00:00:31
Speaker
from your perspective. So I appreciate you. I know you have so much to share. I'll just say a little bit because I've known you for a couple of years now, I guess.
Influence of Shamanic Astrology on Masculinity
00:00:43
Speaker
And you have introduced me to the shamanic astrology paradigm, which is really kind of, I would say the birthplace of this conversation because it opens up so many different ways of expressing masculinity or that masculine expression.
00:01:01
Speaker
in this world than maybe the three that are expected or accepted in this society. So I appreciate that opening and wherever this conversation will take us. All right. Cool. Yeah. So let's just start first, like, you know, where are you from? Where were you born? What was
John's Personal History and Media Influence
00:01:20
Speaker
your family like? It kind of gives some context to how it got started.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, I grew up in New England, very different from Sedona, Arizona, red rocks and mysticism, dense Catholic, Italian family. And yeah, an overprotective Italian mother. And interestingly enough, my father died when I was a baby. So I was actually told he died when I was two. I did find out years later
00:01:53
Speaker
That was not true. He died when I was four. Anyway, the story continues where my masculinity and male role models from childhood were the fawns. From happy days. You know, grease. You're getting the idea here. So, you know, leather jackets and being cool, right? So,
00:02:21
Speaker
James Bond, you know, real healthy masculine role models. And in some ways, yes, I actually believe there was a healthy version in there of some of that masculinity. Of course, there was a lot of the old paradigm patriarchal dark masculine mixed in with some of that as well. And so what is the new warrior? What is the new vision for what it is to be a man? And unfortunately,
00:02:51
Speaker
We've lost that in society. And so it was many moons ago when I was living here, oh, let's see, probably around 2000 and I'll say 2006, around that time, I ended up going into a initiation on a mountain here, Mingus Mountain, and it was through the MKP program, not MKP, make sure I got this right, mankind project.
Mankind Project and Modern Rites of Passage
00:03:18
Speaker
I have KLP. It's been a while since I've even said these words. So New Earth, New Earth, New Warrior Training. And this is an amazing international group that is helping men, one man at a time, towards their empowerment, giving them a rite of passage, so to speak, which is missing from today's world. And so
00:03:43
Speaker
At times gone by, there was the initiation of the uncles, the grandfathers, right? And they would take the child away from mom and initiate them away from the women. And you were taught what it was to be in your manhood.
00:04:00
Speaker
Sometimes that included going out into nature, you know, and don't come back till you have the saber-toothed tiger or, you know, whatever it is, you know, the bear claw or the eagle talon. God only knows, right? So these kind of initiations, if you survived, you were now part of the manhood warrior class of the tribe. That's one extreme example, and I'm not talking about
00:04:23
Speaker
that per se. I'm talking about just the ritual at least, the demarcation, the time in a boy's life where he enters into manhood and what that looks like and where the support is and what are the healthy values and modeling that that child sees. Being a generation X born in 1970,
00:04:48
Speaker
Again, my world modeling was the boob tube, right? It was TV. It was because my dad worked and my dad was a stepdad. And there was some cool things that we interacted doing. Like he would take me skiing when I was in my, you know, like around 13, I think my brother and I started skiing. I do have an older brother, very different from me. Of course we have brotherly love, it's all good. But he didn't have the,
00:05:18
Speaker
let's say the fire that I have. And he was tired a lot and I was always just full of energy and go, go, go, Mars and Aries. There you go. So anyhow, it was a time in my life where growing up, having such a strong mother that was kind of playing both father and mother in some ways, and then the stepdad where there's love, but also kind of resentment and then not knowing of
00:05:47
Speaker
who my real father was. And every time I would ask, it wasn't told to me. And the only time it was told was when I was misbehaving. That wasn't so fun because you hear all these negative.
Brotherhood and Emotional Vulnerability
00:06:00
Speaker
issues of how you're like your your father and who I never knew so that wasn't so fair so this so again this is all painting an interesting picture of how I grew up which is your main question here and what it led to so here I am now in my mid 30s and I'm being asked to go on this mountain for three days
00:06:23
Speaker
and be initiated into this new way of thinking in a rite of passage. Hearing from many men in the community at the time that had been through this and was pretty wild by their stories, I thought this is something I need because I was at a place in my life where I was experiencing a lot of anger and I was just frustrated with so many things. Of course, relationship was a big part of that and
00:06:51
Speaker
What I went up on the mountain for was to really go deep and look at that. But what ended up happening was beyond the help I received in just coming to grips and looking at what was there hidden in the unconscious, it was also
00:07:12
Speaker
an incredible shift of feeling alone, feeling separate, feeling like, OK, I was an art major in college. I wasn't the jock. I wasn't in whatever clique. I was kind of in my own world clique, being an artist and having to create my own study classes and courses. Went to art school.
00:07:35
Speaker
you know, rock and roll. Again, my role models were on TV or Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin or, you know, Jim Morrison. Again, not the greatest role models, right? But there was an archetypal pull that I felt connection. They were cool. They were, you know, a little bit of that bad boy. And then of course I have a godfather, an uncle, my mother's brother.
00:08:00
Speaker
And thank God, what a great man that was in my life and really, really close to my heart. And there was again, what a positive role modeling and maybe that's a good role modeling there. So without the discernment of having to really know where to go with what was the good, what was the bad and kind of
00:08:30
Speaker
discovering all that through my life and getting older, it was a spiritual, strong spiritual practice that really brought me into my integrity, into where I was gonna be going in the world, where I wanted to be, how I wanted to show up in the world. But it was until my mid thirties and I'm on this mountain and I'm feeling all of a sudden a sense of brotherhood
00:08:56
Speaker
of being in the club of just being a man and finding that my man's my my own issues were the issues of of many men from all walks of life and in a way it's like a bit of a boot camp because you're no one knows who you are you don't even use your real name you don't no one knows what you do for a career it doesn't it's not about that it's about finding the archetypal
00:09:21
Speaker
meaning of what manhood is and what the values that are universally agreed upon within all these men. And they were sharing this. It was like being on a rite of passage and being given this code of honor and just working through any shadow that was missing or basically working out issues
00:09:47
Speaker
the way that only men can work out issues. It's different from women going into their red tents or their moon lodge or women's issues are different from men's issues because it's a different driving force which motivates us. And it was such an amazing experience that I had that I was really motivated to then go on
00:10:09
Speaker
and be part of an integration group that lasted for three years, every Monday night for three hours, the group about averaging six, seven men. And it was incredible. It was like the best therapy anybody could ever imagine. And we worked and we worked and we worked on how to become a better
00:10:31
Speaker
person, but of course being a better man, and anything that was not that we got to share, process, do work around, and really get to the core root.
00:10:46
Speaker
of what was happening with the support. It doesn't mean these guys are all therapists, right? Although some of us were. Some of us were spiritual teachers or therapists, my background's in psychology. So it doesn't matter because men's work is men's work. And we kind of learn on the job. We were learning how to support. So this organization, MKP, is an amazing way to
00:11:14
Speaker
hold space and give a formula, so to speak, give a way through how to do this. And since then, I've turned on many men to this that have gone into the higher ranks, that have become leaders in the community. We were invited also to lead and go on the mountain, but be the leaders after we've been initiated. So again, that was something I was doing for a few years. I since moved on to Hawaii.
00:11:40
Speaker
did other things, went on a different life mission, but received so much from those three years that it's a continuous work that I love to share. And so that's why when you said, hey, you can put my show and talk about what it is to be a man and your life and these kinds of things, I'm like,
00:11:56
Speaker
Oh yeah, this is something I love to do because it's my service and empowerment, which to me is such a key word in men's work, is men who feel empowered versus weakened, lazy, they're not living their full potential. So when we live an empowered life with a wide open heart, vulnerable heart,
00:12:22
Speaker
which is also misconstrued in most men, because you're told, don't cry, big boys, don't, you know, don't, don't show your emotion. You gotta be stoic. You gotta be cool, you know, fawns. But yet, what about this authentic side of being a man and being who you are? Where is your room for that? So there's values that we could all agree upon and,
00:12:50
Speaker
If that was running the world, good Lord, what a different world it would be, rather than the business as usual, which is typically psychopathic corporations, unfortunately run by men. But who do they answer to? And so who do you serve?
00:13:12
Speaker
Do you want to serve the Christ consciousness? Do you want to serve something darker and self-interest and self-serving?
Empowerment Through Vulnerability
00:13:23
Speaker
To me, that's a huge polarity that exists. And it's serving the one, the oneness, the love, integrity, unconscious, unconditional love.
00:13:36
Speaker
These are more energetically inspiring values, words that speak to my soul and what I hope to share with whoever's listening. Yes. Well, okay. Thank you. Well, there, there you go, man. Let's go have one of these initiations and look what comes of it because, you know, I believe too, there's not even much of an
00:14:02
Speaker
opportunity for men to bump up against these things, you know, which means there you were in Sedona, of course, there's, you know, groups and people doing this work. But most of us from Phoenix go to Sedona, see the pretty mountains not to go do shadow work, you see. So, and I, you know, we can talk about all the mechanisms that are separating men and women from bumping up against or talking about these things in deeper ways.
00:14:32
Speaker
You're around it probably more in Sedona than most people are. So how wonderful for you to have found that at 30, how wonderful for anyone to find it at 30, at 40, at 50, at 60, at 70 at any time. Because I think what you spoke to is that common value that I think until you are together with other men, peers, women to women too, just your group of peers, you don't
00:15:01
Speaker
often realize that everybody really does have those same values and can we just, you know, fighting over what team we're for, what politics we agree on, all of that and get back to the commonality because what you said was I was in a brotherhood. You know, people have men, I hear it, you know, well, I go out to the game with my guys, you know, we go to the bar, we go to do these things.
00:15:26
Speaker
But if I ask them, do you feel a sense of brotherhood? Meaning if you came to the bar tonight and said, man, I really got a thing I want to talk about. Could we just like step out about my wife or my really? They used to just say right there, they wouldn't even do it. They wouldn't even do it. With the men, they call their friends, their buddies. And I think as men age, I see them just becoming even more and more isolated because it's not worth even going to the bar and sitting and acting like we're, you know,
00:15:55
Speaker
brothers here watching the game and just stay home. I can do that. And they become even more and more isolated. Thankfully from this, actually a local group has started. They don't, it's like men are like, we don't know what we're doing, but we know we got to get together because there's that pull. They're not feeling it in other ways. So just kind of feeling their way through. So, um, so you, okay, you have,
00:16:23
Speaker
And I know you and from your story, you have had this poll, there's something in the heart that says there's a spiritual life. There's something to, to seek in that way. Which led you to Sedona, which led you to music, which led you to all these incredible experiences that have allowed you to be more authentic. Okay.
Spiritual Life and Gratitude in Personal Growth
00:16:48
Speaker
How does someone who,
00:16:50
Speaker
perhaps doesn't have that pull. I mean, it has to be possible and available for all. It is. How do we talk in ways that? You cultivate it. You know what I'm saying. So go ahead. I believe I know what you're saying. It's a cultivation of your life force, of your mana, of your soul. I was just a weird kid. I was an artist. I was different. I was asking questions like, what's breathing me?
00:17:22
Speaker
You know, what is creator? What is, you know, what is good? What is bad? Feeling drawn to the deep questions of life.
00:17:35
Speaker
what happens after death is then all of a sudden learning about reincarnation. Oh, that sounds cool. That sounds better than what I was being taught in this Catholic upbringing. And so I never felt so strong and dogmatic in any religion. In fact, I studied all religions when I was in high school.
00:18:00
Speaker
because I already knew that if I'm born somewhere on the earth, that means I might be exposed to a certain type of belief system, morals, or even a culture like being growing up with battalions, very different from growing up in a different ethnicity, even in America, even though we're Americans. It's
00:18:25
Speaker
It's just why would that be fair? What if I was born in Israel or if I was born in Persia? It's like it would be very different. We're born in Australia as an original person. Talk about a different type of zeitgeist, different type of energy.
00:18:47
Speaker
to me, maybe because I'm an Aquarian and I'm more into oneness and humanity and had a love for humanity even as a child, I asked the deeper questions and because I was asking those questions, it must have been, I probably asked those questions before and probably found some answers and serendipity, synchronicity brought
00:19:10
Speaker
teachings, teachers, what not to do teachers, just as much as the what to do teachers and having that discernment, right? And so what I found over the years was I could even call upon and ask and cultivate that synchronicity into my life. In other words,
00:19:33
Speaker
Why not call in the grace, call in the magic, call in more experiences? Because I found that my ego personality was actually very limited to what
00:19:45
Speaker
The universe had in store for me things that were beyond my wildest dreams, the places I've been, the people I've met, where I've gone, what I've done on the planet so far. And it's exciting. I really love the excitement of life.
00:20:06
Speaker
I enjoy waking up and not always knowing what I'm going to do that day. It's not clockwork. It's not nine to five. It's not in a set of blindfold parameters. I couldn't have done life that way. I mean, I was an art major, for God's sake, right? So it's like, once those blinders are off,
00:20:30
Speaker
It's impossible to ever want to put them on. It's just not going to happen. In some ways, I was fortunate because maybe I was allowed to go to art school. I was allowed to explore the mind and spirit.
00:20:47
Speaker
And in that, I felt a great gratitude. And that's another wonderful thing that I cultivate is just the gratitude for my life, gratitude for friends like you, gratitude for my close, my loved ones, family and friends. And so, you know, I've been grateful to have friends that I've had now for almost, you know, 40 years in my life and kids I grew up with even. So it's, it's,
00:21:15
Speaker
It's what we value and when we
00:21:19
Speaker
get sometimes woken up through traumatic experiences or the pattern interrupts of life near death experiences, which I've had many. It's like, I thought I was gonna die that day. It's like, well, it's a good day to die. And then you get rescued or something happens or whatever miracle is there, it's like, oh my God, thank you for, I'm still breathing. And acknowledging the fact that I'm not just a meat suit,
00:21:48
Speaker
Right? This one-shot deal. I believe there is a higher source of divine light and love that is breathing. Not just me, it's breathing you, if you're open to that belief. And from that, it is an incredible journey. One that is full of divine love and light and has my back.
00:22:11
Speaker
Even though it teaches me tough love with those what not to do teachers and moments and rug being pulled out from under me and the times where I would really not like to have had that happen. But it always teaches me some different, deeper level of empowerment from those experiences. So they're welcomed. That's the difference. Well, and you just said, you know, I think there's even scripture that says it.
00:22:40
Speaker
The ones who ask or seek spines, right? And so what are we seeking? What are we asking for? And are we doing it consciously? And then often we say, look, I just asked for good things, but now comes all these hard lessons. And then we go back into, no, I have to make things happen. And I think that's part of the programming for all of us and especially for men in this society.
00:23:09
Speaker
Right? So because if the thing, a lesson, an emotional healing, a shadow work is bringing up too much emotion, then there's something you're doing wrong, right? You should go up on the mountain for three days and do shadow work those whole three days, then do shadow work. Because you see the value in it. That's a very different
00:23:32
Speaker
Okay, that's a very different perspective too, because I am part of this, I like to bring up because it's not just men who have been told that's not valuable. And what are you doing going out and you know, being with other men for the weekend, the game's on on Sunday. You know, so not only that, but women now get trained to go, what you're going away for the weekend with guys shirt, right, you know, so
00:23:57
Speaker
So we've all got the constructs in place that keeps us all acceptable to everybody in the neighborhood and the community and all of that. So I really believe it takes a lot of courage for a man who hasn't been seeking or open to these ideas and living in Sedona and traveling the world and asking for miracles and seeing them happen for men to really speak up
00:24:23
Speaker
to say out loud, you know, no, I wanna go explore a different thing. I want to, you know, I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I gotta do something different because you mentioned the words, anger and frustration. And that's what brought you to that initiatory process. And I believe that's a lot of men. Maybe they don't wanna, they don't have any place to express it because women, they just heard it the other day. A woman goes, oh, men don't even think about those things.
00:24:52
Speaker
Men don't even express those things. I'm like, because they don't have anywhere too, right? Because we shut them down. Look at that, you just shut them down and they're not even in here. We just went ahead and dismissed the whole gender. And so- Yeah, men are supposed to, sorry to interrupt. Yeah, men are supposed to be so attentive and just listen to the female, but yet where is the reciprocation of that? Where do they hold the space?
00:25:18
Speaker
Yes, which means, and you just, it's a difference. Thank you. And that's what we're getting to because you just said it, you know, men need to process ways that men need to process, not women. And because, you know, we've been sitting in circles for a while and we know how to do this and you're not doing it fast enough, right enough, or, or saying the words that we like to hear. So we like to shut it down.
00:25:44
Speaker
And so I'm really here exploring what is that going to look like? What does that look like? What does, you know, from your, if you could say, this is what like, and here I go generalizing after we're saying don't generalize, but what do men need to do? What do women need to do? And then maybe in that, and these are two part question for you. What is that primal masculine energy?
00:26:10
Speaker
not the programmed masculine energy that says you ought to fit into these things or else you're doing something wrong or you're emoting too much or whatever. What's the primal thing that's like, no, this is the primal masculine energy as opposed to what we're told. I don't think men, women, I don't think any of us necessarily know anymore. Not all of us, but it's hard to discern. You see what I mean? So go ahead.
00:26:37
Speaker
So, so why don't you just kind of state the question a little more. That was a few different comments. Let me, let me just reel you back here. Exactly. So how, what's all right, let's go to what's this. If men are getting the inkling that they're coming up against anger, frustration.
Expressing Needs and Embracing Shadows
00:27:05
Speaker
I mean, suicide rates are rising. Come on, you know, among men. You know, they're getting blamed for a lot of things. They're getting blamed for everything, global warming, everything, politics. And now women tell them we don't need them. You know, we don't need them. So how does a man now have the courage enough to speak up and go, you know, I need to, I don't know what it's gonna look like, but I need to do something.
00:27:34
Speaker
is sovereignty, self-empowerment, self-sourcing, as opposed to the old paradigm, which is your value is based on validation from outside yourself through others.
00:27:51
Speaker
versus an inner validation because you're connected to something that's so amazing and divine that is breathing you, that is your soul essence. In other words, even for women, Prince Charming doesn't come and complete you. That's yesterday, right? That's so yesterday, you know, new age. It's a soulmate.
00:28:19
Speaker
To me, that's obvious. It's your soul. It's your mate. It's your partner for life or lifetimes if you're open to the belief of lifetimes. It's your best friend. It's your mate. They mate. And so once I started realizing that my value and loveability isn't based on outside validation,
00:28:41
Speaker
the miracles already started pouring in because I was able to start self-sourcing against all odds, against all of the programming that is out there that exists that started when it was, you know, do your chores or else go, you're going to be punished. You're bad. We won't love you. Brush your teeth, do all these things, like all the lists and lists of lists. Of course, some of these were good ideas, but it was also,
00:29:11
Speaker
A lot of conditional love. That was programmed, interesting, right? Versus unconditional love. Where do we get the reference point for such a thing, for unconditional love? How are we supposed to offer that to others if we can't even feel unconditionally loving to ourself because we hold onto the pain body of shame
00:29:38
Speaker
Anger typically is a mask for shame. So on the mountain, I realized, oh, I wasn't just angry, I was in deep shame. Okay, let's get to the core. And so how far down the rabbit hole of shadow do we go? Do we give ourselves permission? And who is brave enough? Who has the courage?
00:30:01
Speaker
to go there. And this is why I call the new warrior a love warrior. You have to have courage. You have to choose to take a risk. You have to get your butt in the spirit gym, I like to call it, because you gotta do your workout, no pain, no gain. You've gotta embrace your shadows. And that means love them. It means actually give them up. Does it mean condoning them? It's different.
00:30:30
Speaker
when a child on the outside, again, is crying or sad or upset, what do you do? Scream and yell at it? You could, that happened to me. And it sucked and I didn't like it. And so I figured, wow, I really don't wanna be like that. And so I wanna be really compassionate and be loving to that child.
00:30:59
Speaker
So most people are, most people can see that in a child, if they're suffering, their power of love and support until, you know, their boo-boo is gone or whatever, right? But why aren't we doing that for ourselves? Why does that stop when it comes to our own inner wounded child?
00:31:23
Speaker
Exactly. As without, so within. And I believe, you know, we're all that wounded child as well. I mean, society's been a real doozy in that way, telling us all these ways to be ashamed of ourselves and especially ashamed of how we feel and how we emote. And that definitely casts a blanket of shame when you're told that how you feel and how you emote is wrong or bad.
00:31:46
Speaker
And we've all been told that, right? And nevermind if that's happened to us personally, as well. So I want to take you for a second. We'll go to that second part of the question in a minute. Because back to this part, because, like you said, you went to this initiatory process, you were feeling a lot of anger and frustration, I think you said over relationship. And then you brought this, this point up about anger being a cover, usually a shame or sadness or something. So
00:32:15
Speaker
Because I believe that, you know, a lot of us or a lot of not only men, but everybody, a lot of people just stay in anger, like, well, that feels safe. It feels protective. I'm not going to get hurt again if I stay angry enough. Right. And we never get to the point of, you know what, I'm just really sad, really sad. I'm really, you know, grieving the loss of something.
00:32:38
Speaker
or I'm ashamed, I'm embarrassed that somebody broke up with me in that way or cheated on me or whatever, and we won't admit that emotional part.
00:32:49
Speaker
I don't know. I'm kind of wanting to speak to that. What did you? Happy to. It's something that I speak to a lot, especially with my clients. And so when I'm counseling, and this is all from my own life experience.
00:33:09
Speaker
And what I've learned along the way from teachers in psychology and various resources. But basically, if you think about your anger, when we're angry, there's a sense of empowerment.
00:33:25
Speaker
Not saying it's a good sense of empowerment. I'm saying that we feel strong. We feel like, OK, I'm tough. I can get through this. In a way, it's a way men are taught. But also, women learn this too. It's not just men that learn that. And so, of course, different cultures have different versions of that.
00:33:49
Speaker
But basically, the why of why people choose unconsciously to go to anger, because it is unconscious, is because they can't face the shame. They can't face looking at the core wound, the pain body. So anger is just an easy, false sense of feeling empowered. But if you really truly want to be empowered,
00:34:13
Speaker
you've got to ask the deeper questions. You got to go into what's underneath that. So let's just say it's shame or sadness or fear. It could be anything, right? It could be any negative emotion. What if we just sit with that, accept it, allow it just like you would allow a child to be sad until you're giving them hugs and making them feel safe.
00:34:37
Speaker
could be fear, could be a lightning storm. I like to use that as an example, because I remember my first lightning storm, beelining it down the stairs that my mother's bedroom going, thinking the world is gonna end, thunder is shaking the house, lightning's going. It's like, it's just, it was such a scary thing that my mom somehow was able to make me feel safe by her embrace. That mother's love that can pick up a Volkswagen off of their child in an accident. You know, these kinds of stories you grew up hearing about, right?
00:35:07
Speaker
What gives that adrenaline? What gives that mother, that mother bear that force of power to do that? Well, it's because it's within us all. We're much more powerful than we give ourself credit. We're powerful beyond measure. The false sense of fear is kind of like that Miriam Williamson quote. It's like our greatest fear is not our inadequacies, right?
00:35:32
Speaker
Our greatest fear is that we're powerful beyond measure. So people are afraid of their own power. Why? Because they've been angry and they've done things and they've hurt people with their anger. Well, okay. I don't want to be like that. I want to own that. I want to accept that. I'm going to look what's underneath that and embrace that with that loving hug. And so what happens is from going from anger, then I go to shame and then I go to love.
00:36:00
Speaker
And once I'm in love, unconditional love, how can I feel angry or sad or fear or shame if I'm choosing consciously to unconditionally love the shame, fear, sadness? I've just stopped the pattern, the cycle, the spin.
00:36:27
Speaker
And we're all capable of doing this course it takes practice takes muscle memories like playing guitar. You're not going to get good at guitar looking at it in the corner of the room. You got to get on it and move those fingers and learn the fretboard and you got to you got to spend time practicing in the spirit changes like you would at a gym pumping muscle.
00:36:46
Speaker
No pain, no gain. Ripping muscles hurts your sore. But after a few months of it, you kind of like it. It's a good sore, they say, right? Same thing with the spirit gym. It's like, God, it's like, who wants to look at their shame? Well, do it enough. You get good at it. You see that you don't have to stay in that very long. So the lag time gets shorter and shorter with more practice of being able to quickly come back to your center
00:37:13
Speaker
do your apologies authentically because you just hurt somebody maybe with that outburst, right? So what do you, it's taking full accountability and responsibility. And this was one of the first values that we could say we learned up on the mountain during that weekend. And what we practiced was taking full accountability for everything. And that's,
00:37:40
Speaker
that's a very divine masculine value, if you think about it. And women cannot, women have their own inner masculine. They can do the dark masculine and be, you know, powerful and be corporate and do everything men can do. And, but are they role modeling an unhealthy masculine or are they role modeling a beautiful and empowered divine masculine? Right. And I would say that we're all.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, we're all living under what we call the wounded masculine, or whatever at this point, because there, you know, it's just been so distorted. And again, that natural essence of masculinity has been distorted into corporate success, and, and a hardness and actually an anger.
Emotional Acceptance and Relationship Dynamics
00:38:26
Speaker
And I believe that, you know, again, as without so within, we're all not all. Some of us are working on it. But anger is so accepted, like it's normal that you're just got this angry
00:38:39
Speaker
You know, front, maybe not in Sedona, but I see a lot in places where there's just a, if I just keep this stoic look, then I don't get flustered. I don't get anybody like upsetting me. You know, there's such a sensitivity to getting down past what's what that anger is.
00:38:59
Speaker
And then there's the expectations because I can only imagine some couples that I know, right? He's sitting there watching the game because he does every Sunday. She's doing her stuff in the kitchen. And then suddenly he's breaks down because he's gotten behind his anger. And now he's revealing his sadness or his grief or shame or whatever. And she's like, what the heck is going on here? What are you falling apart? You know, and we got to zip this right back up because otherwise the house is going to fall down.
00:39:29
Speaker
So there's a whole lot of constructs that keep especially men. I think women are more likely to go, well, there's a group of women and we're going to go do this thing. I think there's a whole lot of constructs that especially keep men from just doing anything different than what is expected. And there's not much of an outlet. So I think we're still speaking to this courage piece.
00:39:58
Speaker
you know, and it's just going to take courage on both of our parts. That's what it takes to go. Yeah. In a relationship, both partners have to agree on certain non-negotiables. And that means
00:40:17
Speaker
Let's not let our little crazy seven-year-old children or five-year-olds run the show of this relationship. Let's take responsibility for those. Let's take accountability and let's be authentic. Which means women take responsibility for what we're projecting onto how men ought to be and how they ought to show up as well.
00:40:39
Speaker
vice versa, right? It takes both partners to understand how each other go through their emotions and how you can support.
00:40:53
Speaker
A woman supports a man differently than a man supports a man, right? There's different ways. And so this is why the men are from Mars, women are from Venus. It's like, you know, why there are polarities. It's not about just becoming the same.
00:41:11
Speaker
It's a unique diversity that there's yin and there's yang. Now there's a seed of each other planted just like there's X's and Y chromosomes. There's an extra Y or an extra X making you one gender or another, which opens up a whole other can of worms about gender added on to all this and all the distortion and all the crazy stuff that's happening around that in the world.
00:41:36
Speaker
where you want to identify as an eggplant or God knows what these days. So what are we, you know, what is, where do we get back on track, take responsibility and accountability for how we show up and how are we gonna be more loving? Cause that's what the world needs. Now, divine masculine can totally be in alignment
00:42:06
Speaker
with compassion, loving, commitment, you know, there's all these beautiful qualities. So it's, and there's the distorted, like you say, the dark masculine. And so the same thing with, and it's just seen with women.
00:42:23
Speaker
And it's even some, so there's all these patriarchal constructs, which is what has been now screwing up the place, let's say, Earth. And we've gotta have a balance, but the balance isn't gonna be for women to take on the men's roles and be the dark masculine. It's not about that. It's about women learning how to be really feminine.
00:42:50
Speaker
in their divine feminine, but also there's a place to be in their divine masculine as well. Nothing wrong with them. And so when we have to make, when a woman has to make a choice or do something linear, of course they can't just rely on men in their divine masculine to make those or men in their unconscious dark masculine. So we have all of it within us. So it goes beyond gender at that point.
00:43:18
Speaker
Okay, and this is what is so important is to understand the bigger wider oneness of humanity, and that we all have, you know, red blood, hopefully, and we all believe in we in our hearts are pumping that for some reason, and our
00:43:36
Speaker
breath is breathing for some reason, that's divine for me. That's I don't, I don't see it as mechanical as this meat suit is that, you know, important, of course, I take care of it. It's important because it's housing my soul. So I'm going to do the best I can and enjoy it. While I'm here, I'm not rushing to never come back. It's like, this is actually a pretty good place. And
00:43:59
Speaker
I make it that way. I see it that way because I've been in the dark side of the worst underworld dark nights of
Astrology and Personal Empowerment
00:44:09
Speaker
the soul. I've gone through it, yet I'm still
00:44:13
Speaker
breathing and I'm a better man for the journey because what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. And so there's a way in which I know that's par for the course. And in astrology, because we're both astrologers, we're looking at this stuff, we know there are cycles.
00:44:30
Speaker
And so it's really such a cop out when people decide to, you know, when it's like, geez, they just waited two more months, they'd be out of their Pluto cycle and everything would have been okay. But when you're so dark, I have compassion for those people. It's, and of course, there's all different levels and extremes of that. So I'm not here to pass judgment on what they do. I can only,
00:44:58
Speaker
worry about this guy and do my best. And as I work on myself and change myself and empower myself, it just so happens it seems like the timeline I'm living changes and the world reflects that in a much beautiful, better way. At least that's been my experience. I can't speak for everybody, but it's been an incredible journey of empowerment because I cultivated.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yes. Thank you. And take responsibility. And this is the difference.
00:45:31
Speaker
And because I had a way, there was, I really wanted to find that. I missed it, maybe out of my desperation, maybe not having a father, the darkness of that, the unfortunate situation, but maybe that's what compelled me to then be such a seeker, a spiritual seeker, learning about different father type figures, right? So, you know, Buddha's a different kind of figure than
00:45:59
Speaker
you know, Jesus, it's like, there's different figures out there of, you know, then there's the fonts, it's Buddha. It's like, it's like, okay, what am I gonna, what, how am I gonna work today? What would Jesus do? What would the fonts do? And then it's like, you know, those kinds of funny things, but that was the upbringing. Right. I mean, your, your whole demeanor just talking about, Hey, this is fun. I could be this, I could be that. Who even thinks they can do that? Right. That's what I'm saying. They're like, this is what I must do. And
00:46:26
Speaker
And how, you know, the only way through, and I think you just spoke to it too, if I hadn't gotten in touch with the dark side, the shadow side of not having my father around, I wouldn't have found the path I was on. And this is what I think people miss, is that that's where the empowerment is, is wherever that dark place is, that unconscious place is dark, it's unconscious, it's subconscious, it's all it is, it's been under the sofa, you're bringing it out from under the sofa, right? And so if I don't do that, though, I'm not gonna get the richness or the lessons or maybe the new path.
00:46:56
Speaker
that I go on by uncovering those things. And so you reminded me too, when we started that little part about relationship, and we're talking about relationship actually lasts with others, but first with ourselves. And again, as without so within, and Daniel talks about, the founder of the school we're in, Daniel talks about the Skylantic relationship and how
00:47:23
Speaker
You know it's we can understand that there's been the patriarchy and it's done a lot of damage and all of that, and so then there's been the backlash of the rise of the feminine feminist movements and you know.
00:47:34
Speaker
I hear a lot of it and I'm so happy for us and proud of us and all of that. But I don't feel like it's the right time to, again, leave men behind and leave the masculine behind. Here's the time, if there's any time that we can now turn around, if we've been sitting in circles for a while, turn around and hold out our
Rising of the Sacred Masculine and Feminine
00:47:55
Speaker
hand. Isn't this what we wanted? Was for the sacred masculine to rise with us?
00:48:02
Speaker
not to continue to disparage and put that energy down. And so I'm getting to this because there is an essence of the masculine energy that yes, I have that masculine energy within me, but I don't have it like a man does. You know what I mean? So what is that? Because I think some people have a hard time, myself included sometimes, kind of parsing out
00:48:25
Speaker
What is this masculine energy you're talking about? What is this feminine energy you're talking about? Okay. So, so here's, I'll just throw this out cause it's kind of, I'm just popping to my mind. So there's like these memes, right? And you have three dudes, three men from 1970 that are all riding, you know, their dirt bikes.
00:48:47
Speaker
Manhood, 1970. Manhood, 2024. They're little like leaf eater, you know, sensitive on scooters. You know, it's like, no offense, you guys. But what has happened? What's going on? Why is a strong warrior archetype of manhood somehow
00:49:15
Speaker
not acceptable anymore. When did that change? When was there some kind of cosmic memo that went out that says, don't be weak, be meek, let the women run the show. You just like, that's absolute distortion for me because I don't subscribe to that.
00:49:42
Speaker
there's something wrong going on. And whoever is pushing that agenda, and for whatever women that are going for this pretty feminine style looking qualities in men, that's the guy that's going to build your house for you. That's going to be the strong father that protects you.
00:50:06
Speaker
aren't those sacred divine masculine qualities that you would want? So there's this really weird distortion that I'm speaking to, I believe, to what you were just talking about. And so where do we find healthy role modeling, universal, archetypal, energetics that we should have within us as humans? So now I'm gonna go beyond
00:50:35
Speaker
any gender. I'm not saying that women have to just be demure and weak and hopeless. I'm not saying that either. I'm saying, how do we find a balance within ourself? And this is what I love about, again, our teacher Daniel, is someone that brings in what's called the sacred marriage.
00:50:56
Speaker
So instead of projecting your inner other, instead of projecting your own inner feminine, if you're a man, onto what you would think that would be, look like for a woman, but own that within yourself. That's one way of kind of working this out astrologically, looking at the Mars and Venus and owning both, doing an inner marriage. I'm talking about it beyond that going into a soul. I want to incorporate my full divine connection.
00:51:25
Speaker
Because to me, that trumps, of course, anything as astrological anyway. It's the highest of the higher mysteries, let's say. And even our teacher will say, astrology is a certain level, it's great. It's personality, it does certain things, it can really guide us. And I love astrology because it does do that, and it's amazingly spookily accurate. But what happens is, even Daniel will say, it doesn't account for grace, it doesn't account for the higher,
00:51:52
Speaker
of mysteries. And so love, I just, maybe that's just the way I see things, but love is the most powerful force there is on this planet. Love is such a force. And so if I'm going to be a warrior for anything, it's going to be for love. And that includes if someone's messing with someone that's near and dear to me, they're going to have to reckon
00:52:19
Speaker
with that mother bear or father bear, let's say, that kind of energetic. Because if someone's crossing my boundaries and I'm clear what those boundaries are, guess what? I have a right to be angry.
00:52:34
Speaker
And damn sure, I'm going to be angry. I'm blessed with this amazing woman in my life now. She has an eight year old girl that is with us half the time. And if I was just like here in my office and I'm looking outside and I see some weird van pull up and some guy and she's out there on a bike and this guy, like soon as I could just like see that up my window, B line,
00:53:00
Speaker
You think I'd be all like, oh, are you okay? Like what's going on? No, I'd be like ready to take the guy out on the ground. Why? Because there's nothing that's gonna mess with my family, especially that innocent little girl. And this is the predatory dark masculine and women can be like that too. I could join Maxwell, look at all this stuff that's happened in the, you know, things that are being revealed.
00:53:29
Speaker
The atrocities, the sickness that is out there for greed, lust, money, all these very dark forces that are on this planet that we're just being almost being made aware of for the first time, that wasn't in my paradigm. And it's almost too unbelievable to imagine it exists. But the more that I see this happening close to home,
00:53:59
Speaker
This is definitely, we're in trouble when we wanna legalize that kind of behavior. Legalize things that go against nature that we should be protecting our children at all costs. Not selling their soul and letting and giving them phones at five years old. We need to protect the innocence.
00:54:26
Speaker
and strengthen their beliefs of empowerment and love with love. Does that make sense? Oh, it makes total sense. And we'll have to have part two for that rabbit hole because there is so much. And I always say it takes one generation or two. That's all it's going to take. And you just said the 70s. Here's at least a picture of a manly man, whether it was the healthiest or whatever. It was a picture.
00:54:54
Speaker
Right. And now we got military putting on lipstick and all the, all the stuff. So, you know, I have to say that's probably, that's not my mistake. And it's not just because we're all finding out that we have different sexual preferences. I believe it's a big programming to take men away from that strength. And I wonder too, because you mentioned, and we use these words back and forth, we've used the words back and forth, sacred and divine.
00:55:22
Speaker
And I think in our school, Daniel makes a point of saying sacred. And I just wonder, this is just a postulation I'm throwing out there. Because when we hear, especially in the New Age movement, divine, do we automatically connect that with feminine?
00:55:41
Speaker
meaning that if you're going to be right, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, but I wonder if we do go, well, that just means you're soft and angelic and there's pixie dust and unicorns and all of that, which means that's how a divine masculine ought to be. And so if you're angry, then you're toxic. Let's talk about that. You're saying, wait, divine or sacred masculine, and then there's 12 different expressions of the masculine right within that Aries warrior or protector. So
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah, is it gotten softened? Meaning we all think men ought to be softer. You see? I think the dark masculine does, right? However, a healthy, let's just say, let's replace divine with sacred. And let's just keep just saying that for the rest of this conversation, because I think that does thank you for bringing that to my awareness how some people might
00:56:39
Speaker
I just think it's kind of a common thing and I wonder if it contributes. There's many, there's a place on the wheel for all kinds of masculine. There's a place on the wheel for all kinds of feminine. Some are more acceptable to society. Some aren't. I'm not discriminating, I'm not judging.
00:57:03
Speaker
But let's just even talk astrology for a moment. Cancer is a nurturing mother type energy. Capricorn, a father responsibility, strong, grounded, linear, get the job done, protect, provide.
Return to Universal Values and Courage
00:57:23
Speaker
These are universal archetypes. Of course, a mother could have capricorn
00:57:30
Speaker
and be more like a father type of energy to their children. Maybe they're not so sweet. Maybe it's not so natural for them to nurture. Maybe they don't say, I love you every day 10 times a day to their kids because that's not how they grew up. It's like they grew up being a provider is love, right? So I'm not saying that that's, I'm here to change all that in the world and make people think differently. I'm saying that there are universal,
00:57:59
Speaker
ways in which we as humans, universal values of what is now gone into a distorted reality. And what is that agenda and how does it distort? Well, it distorts through looking at a computer screen or an iPhone where, you know, the black mirror, it's like, who's,
00:58:29
Speaker
spending dollars or whatever the nomination, right? Whatever currency, it's somebody's in charge of this. And that agenda doesn't seem in harmony with nature, love, light to me. Sacred.
00:58:52
Speaker
I feel that there are people of course that really want that. And I think most humans do want that. If we had the choice, if we were given options.
00:59:04
Speaker
but we're not even given options anymore. And if you didn't see that happen over the last few years, where we weren't given options and we were actually told to dehumanize, to separate, we weren't told to have courage. There was no cheerleader. There was nobody saying, come on, we can do this. It was, everybody was shaming each other, fear. The program was off the hook. Sad.
00:59:33
Speaker
That's the world that I'm not in agreement with. That's the world that I want to see shift and change. But if I get all my information and news and everything, even the alternative stuff, it's not helping. It all goes within to the sacred. So when I say divine or let's call it sacred now, to me that is a universal
01:00:00
Speaker
loving force. And then we have to come up with some kind of non-negotiable agreement of what those values are and work as a humanity towards those values. But that means we have to be allowed to work towards those values. But if you have a huge amount of people with guns, armies being paid as mercenaries or whatever it is to stop that agenda,
01:00:31
Speaker
We're kind of in trouble, which is kind of why we're in trouble. So it takes a zeitgeist. It takes a spirit. It takes a 100th monkey. It takes an awakening. It takes podcasts like this. It takes some of us putting our neck on the lines, let's say, to speak truth, to speak from our hearts, speak from our soul. There'll be haters that will hate what I'm saying right now, that are just fuming about words that are coming out of my mouth.
01:01:00
Speaker
And that's OK. It's not going to stop me from speaking my truth. And this is only my truth. When a student-ready teacher appears, if this is for those who are going to get something out of this,
01:01:15
Speaker
who you are then I hope this empowers you and we can continue the dialogue and we can empower ourselves. I've made steps in my life to choose that path to really go deep in this journey towards empowerment and to me that is
01:01:40
Speaker
something that gets me up, it motivates me, it helps me be of service. It's filling my cup every day so that I can share my full cup. I don't wanna share my backwash. I wanna feel empowered in my life. And so when I live a life that's where I have accountability, where I'm being authentic, being true to myself, being in integrity,
01:02:07
Speaker
And I know that. No one else can tell me if I'm an integral. They can try. But I know if I've done something or not done something, because people can project anything they want on you. And if I value their validation more than my own inner source, you know? So again, see how it all tingles in. And if I'm consistent with this as a spiritual practice, it's only going to get better.
01:02:36
Speaker
And so as I've been on this path for so long and watching the results in myself and also other people who I've shared with the ones who are ready for this type of teaching, I'm so, this is just my mission to do this. And it seems like it's getting to the point where I am being more vocal about it, let's say, and opportunities to be more vocal about this being on your podcast here is,
01:03:07
Speaker
is definitely a step in that direction, right? And so we can play small and just hide out and be in fear or be in our full potential and truth. And to me, the teachers that inspire me are the ones doing that. And so, you know,
01:03:34
Speaker
And you're my teacher, you inspire me. So thank you so much for that. And like you say, I hope we just continue having this conversation. And I believe we're learning right now that it doesn't matter if a hundred people, a hundred thousand people listen to this or not. It's out there in the consciousness, the work you have done, the work you're doing now, the work I'm doing is out in the consciousness, which means it's there for others to pick up, whether they ever actually hear you or your words or not. And I think there's a lot of,
01:04:02
Speaker
energy rippling out from this, as we're talking right now, and as it will go out, that is just a thread that other men can pick up.
01:04:14
Speaker
and somehow a spark gets lit, and maybe they see the warrior, the mankind project come across their feed. Yeah, M-A-P dot org. I mean, that exists. That's just something that I stumbled upon. I'm sharing it because I don't make money from sharing it. It's just something that I did years ago. I was like within 10 years ago. But also the vibration quality. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
Healing Through Sound and Mindfulness
01:04:42
Speaker
I was just going to say that even beyond words, I'm a sound healer. I mean, as you know, that's how we met actually. I was doing a concert. And so as a musician, as a sound healer in particular, to me, everything is frequency. I really see it that way. And as physics describes it,
01:05:00
Speaker
It is. Terrence Howard blowing up right now too about coming out and really sharing his truth is also inspiring and people are trying to shoot him down, right? So frequency vibration. If there was, we didn't get into such a, this wasn't like a workshop where I'm teaching, teaching, teaching. I was planting some seeds, but mostly that was through a vibrational field of mindfulness that I'm intentionally embodying.
01:05:30
Speaker
And that can be felt in your listeners. So if there's women, because this shows women too, this is helping the women. Come on, you gals. It's like, let's stick this together. What I want to see where MKP was just for men.
01:05:48
Speaker
My wish is to bring circles of women, circles of men together and have these discussions like you and I are doing right now. So to be continued for sure, Lizzie, I'm more than happy. And who knows, a workshop could come out of this with people that are listening to the show. And you guys want it? We'll give it. So. We're going to talk after the show. I see it coming for sure.
01:06:15
Speaker
So I appreciate that because it is about just having these conversations, bridging the gap. Not us, not the women just continuing to go, we're gonna go to our circle and you do your thing. But really looking in with each other and kind of holding hands in this ascension or rising or just coming together in a way instead of, and then understanding that that means that it looks different for each and holding space for all of that.
01:06:46
Speaker
Anything else you wanna wrap up? Again, I don't like, I'm doing this to not generalize, but in a way, in a general way, what would you say? All right, men, come on. All right, women, come on. Yeah, I just looked at the time, I can't believe it. I know, right? An hour and nine minutes, like this, didn't we just cut? That was an hour. You're in your passion, when you're in your truth. So come on, men, live in your truth. Be real, get real.
01:07:17
Speaker
own what the heck is happening in your life. You've been sold a bunch of lies probably that don't resonate or make sense anymore. And it's becoming more and more obvious. Women, I'm saying the same thing to you. Let's come together. Let's be in empowerment together and come up with the non-negotiables.
01:07:40
Speaker
This, life is precious. Our children are precious. What are we gonna do for these next generations? We can't let this sickness keep, you know, running the show and whatever that's gonna take to get back to this type of awareness. To me, that is my mission and I'm happy to support and help anybody that wants to choose empowerment and unconditional love and answer to a sacred
01:08:10
Speaker
source that is breathing us, that's loving us, that has our back. And even seemingly in times where we feel like it doesn't have our back, it has our back. It's like, mom, you know, 10 times you want to touch that stove, eventually mom's going to say, okay, that's it. It's like, okay, you learn the hard way.
01:08:33
Speaker
It's tough love sometimes folks and even those cycles pass. So we're still breathing and that's what matters. What are we gonna do with this day? Let's make it the best day ever. So thank you, Lizzie, for having me on your show. I hope you guys found this helpful and we've touched the soul. It's worth the hour.
01:08:55
Speaker
I'm sure I'm sure he did. I want to share one more thing that happened a couple weeks ago that really puts to me was such a poignant moment that showed the energy and the essence of of what we're talking about. And I can't even hardly put words to it. And I'm probably going to cry. But we were at the Yama concert in Sedona. And you played before that. And so I was there to
01:09:21
Speaker
I always like to get myself in the mood with your music. It's wonderful. And then Yama came on and they have been developing songs related to each of the 22 tarot cards, uh, major arcana tarot cards. And they shared with us. It was just being unveiled the emperor. Right. And see, here I go, because it was such a beautiful moment when she spoke about this sacred masculine and it was
01:09:49
Speaker
I really felt that moment for all the women too, being open and holding, like doing the action of holding the sacred masculine and you guys receiving it as well. And just knowing that this was a moment to just really stand in your manly hood, whatever that was. And my goodness, there are many different expressions of that in that group because it's Sedona. So I just, it really,
01:10:18
Speaker
I don't know, it's like that hopeful moment, that moment that brings us forward as Daniel says, dreaming the dream onwards about, you know, that could be the energy that we go forward in. And so I hope if it's only me for an hour at a time,
01:10:34
Speaker
with a man at a time that you felt held in that and supported in your rising into your sacred masculine expression as you continue to. Absolutely. It really resonates with me a story too from when I was up on that mountain and we were talking about different archetypes like that, like the king versus the prince.
01:10:58
Speaker
All right, how do you wanna show up in the world? Like this was addressed to like, we all got to like, look at the art of us of how often are we playing the role of the prince as men? Where we kinda don't have to take responsibility, daddy will take care of it. Or, you know, we don't have to be totally in integrity because it's like, it's not just fun to be naughty or whatever it is, right? Whatever these things are, where being the prince, you know, cutting corners,
01:11:27
Speaker
business as usual. Sometimes you gotta be sleazy in business to make money. Like all of this prince-like thinking. Is that how we're gonna step into being the king?
Transition from Prince to King: Maturity and Responsibility
01:11:42
Speaker
There's a point where you just have to put your mind in the sand and say, I'm ready to step into being the king. Right. And letting the rest of the chips fall where they may, which means relationships may change and other things may change.
01:11:55
Speaker
And I'm not saying every man has to do that. It's not everybody's path. But there's a point where we're teenagers and we're princes and there's a point where we're in our 20s and we kind of get away with stuff. There's a point where in your 30s and you're kind of now having to pick on more responsibility, that's probably a good time to step into your king, especially if you're gonna have family or kids or, you know, do something on a business. By the time you're 40,
01:12:22
Speaker
It's even more so, probably time to get into your king. Now you're entering into the wizard or the magician or God only knows what's going on at that point. But what's happening to me is I feel that there's just too much distorted thinking. And that really woke me up on the mountain was one.
01:12:48
Speaker
I want to step into the king. I don't want to be that prince anymore. And you know, we queens want kings. We do, you know? So instead of continuing to say, no, we just don't need you. And so I hope that we can maybe drop our defenses as well, too. It's all healing, right? We're all healing from collective trauma and personal trauma, so we can drop our defenses and support
01:13:17
Speaker
sacred masculine in their growth into their you know kinghood and or wherever they're growing as well the king probably wants his queen doesn't want the princess that would be a little weird but that's kind of like what's going on in the world right what's been sold to you as well i believe it's a little bit weird so why would it what's what's wrong in this equation where kings want princesses instead of
01:13:45
Speaker
their queen so they can be in their glory and power and do the right thing and support not only their families but their greater family and then there's community and again this isn't you know we've been so inundated with
01:14:04
Speaker
inflation, all these money, the world where men and women have to go to work and women have to become like the men to work in the workplace and the corporate, it's just getting out of hands to the point where the values are all twisted up. And so if we come back to core values, it doesn't mean women can't work.
01:14:25
Speaker
That's beautiful. But what is the sacred work for them in particularly to what their role is? And it could be anything. Like I said, there's many places on the wheel, but we need at least some of them to be mothers because
01:14:41
Speaker
Right? We got to keep going. We got to let moms be moms. And we got to encourage. Thank goodness there are some of them. And I always say, the it, the big it, the they, whatever it is, doesn't spend trillions because it doesn't work. It works because it distorts and it gets us off of these natural roles. So it takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of effort to extract from that and to reprogram what we've been told.
01:15:11
Speaker
maybe going on to a mountain for three days or going to Sedona or coming to our workshop or learning more even about your chart.
Shamanic Astrology and Life Path Exploration
01:15:19
Speaker
John does shamanic astrology readings and counseling and all of that as well. So I will be glad to put a link to your work in our description box. So thank you very much for your time.
01:15:35
Speaker
You're welcome. To me, this was a very personal sharing. Of course, you're just kind of plugging my sessions as a counselor or astrologer. To me, I combine both of those together.
01:15:52
Speaker
That's a neutral zone. There's no judgment. A person comes in, you're there to help that person of what you can, aside from my own personal beliefs. So just so viewers understand the difference of what our own version and personal beliefs are versus being healing and support and there. I'm not trying to make anybody something they're not. I'm only there to help people who do wanna become
01:16:21
Speaker
more empowered and offer suggestions, options, help them see the bigger picture and help them become true to their self, empower them in that way. So there's absolutely a place on the wheel for everybody. And I'm just kind of at large because the foundation of this show is what is a healthy, you know, what is your version on masculinity? I'm just sharing my personal beliefs with you. No, that's exactly what I wanted. Very different session.
01:16:50
Speaker
Absolutely that's exactly what this is about and often I don't even bring up what you do but it's so helpful in this arena you know to be able to say okay what's my particular version or if I choose to lean into exploring that expression of masculinity instead of what I've been told what the trillion dollar gene has told me so I did mention that because it is very helpful but I really appreciate your personal
01:17:15
Speaker
experiences in this so that people can know how it really helped you. And it was before you really found shamanic astrology necessarily, it was just that seeking.
01:17:24
Speaker
You know, that brought hands and, you know, my thirties were a really incredible time for me because of all the, the teachings that came in that really showed up. That just was, it was just instant fire living in a place like Sedona, of course, where who's who from any type of spiritual teaching is going to come through here and you have the opportunity to learn from. And, um, it's.
01:17:48
Speaker
It's been very blessed that way in full. So again, it's why I like to pay it forward and share and give back because I really feel that life has been so generous and I have so much gratitude for that.
01:18:03
Speaker
Thank you for helping me share a little bit more about my thoughts on the topic at hand, and we'll see you next time, or maybe in five minutes as we hang out. Yes, thank you, John DeMasse from the full cup. So thank you. Bye, folks.