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Why it's Scary to Embrace Vulnerability & Why You Should do it Anyway with Jeremy Cearbaugh | Ep #31
55 Plays4 years ago
Vulnerability has become a trendy word in the last few years but still manages to be something that eludes most men. There's a reason we avoid it like the plague even though deep down our heart is longing for intimate connection.
Today we dive into:
- Why is vulnerability so scary?
- How celebrating success can be vulnerable.
- Why you need to have men in your life you are vulnerable with on a regular basis.
- Tangible ways to deepen a relationship with other men through vulnerability.
Guest:
Jeremy Cearbaugh is the program manager for the semesters and ambassador branch of Adventures, an organization that helps young adults deepen their relationship with God and each other through shared experiences. He, his wife, and three children are based in Gainsville, Georgia.
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Important URL's
- Complete Book of Questions by Gary Poole - 1001 questions to help deepen relationships.
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- Host: Josh Cearbaugh Consulting
- 12-Week Course designed to help you find clarity, get unstuck and build momentum
- Free 15 Minute Consultation with Josh Cearbaugh
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Transcript
Introduction: Understanding Men's Complexity
00:00:00
Speaker
Men, we are not simple, chest-thumping, rock-smashing, fire-starting barbarians. We have depth. We intensely feel. We are scared, yet brave. We love to have fun. We're imperfect and make mistakes. We're compassionate and loving. We are multifaceted.
00:00:24
Speaker
Let's explore the reality of masculinity together. For those of you that have been listening to the series on dreams, I want to let you know some good news and some not so great news. And that is the good news is that we are going to continue the series on dreams. That's not going away. There are still a couple more that we actually want to do to expand on the ideas and the concepts around that.
00:00:46
Speaker
The not so good news is that is going to be put on pause for now because after thinking about it and really talking to a few people, I feel like it's more important to have conversations that help men for where we are right now as a society.
The Importance of Vulnerability Among Men
00:01:06
Speaker
And while dreams are important, they're a passion of mine, you spend a lot of your time sleeping, et cetera, that passion doesn't necessarily apply across the board for all men. Where today, my guest, which is also my brother, we are going to be talking about something that is universal, which is building a culture of vulnerability. Why is that important? And quite frankly, how the hell do you do it?
00:01:32
Speaker
And so if you've enjoyed the dream series, know that there is going to be more episodes coming down the pipeline, but that is put on pause for now so that we can dive into, given everything that's going on in our world today, how do we as men build relationships that have vulnerability interwoven in them? Because now more than ever, we need the depth that that offers.
00:01:58
Speaker
that vulnerability unlocks for us men. We need it. So today, we are diving into how do you build a culture of vulnerability? As always, if you have not already, my ask to you is that you pause this, go ahead and leave a reply and let me know how these episodes have impacted you.
00:02:22
Speaker
And for those of you who have not subscribed yet, I know that there are a chunk of you. My analytics show that about 42% of my listeners are not subscribed. So if that's you, please go ahead and pause it, hit the subscribe button so that way you don't miss out on future episodes. Okay, let's go ahead and get started on how to build a culture of vulnerability.
Introducing Jeremy and the Role of Vulnerability
00:03:01
Speaker
All right, so today is yet another special day because, you know, the last few guests that we've had on have all been significant to me in one way or another. And you can't get much more significant than a family member. And so today we actually have Jeremy Seerba, who is my youngest brother. I've got three brothers. He is my youngest. He has done a variety of things, which we are going to get into today.
00:03:30
Speaker
But the reason why I have him on today is just because out of the variety of depth that he has to offer and who he is, the thing that stands out to me about him is his ability to cultivate vulnerability. And what I mean by that is he has a community that has a depth in relationship that quite frankly, I have not come across more than maybe once or twice in my life.
00:04:00
Speaker
My heart is to offer something to you guys of value. And I can't think of anything more valuable than this conversation when it comes to vulnerability. So without further ado, Jeremy, nice to meet you. Not really meet you. Well, for starters, is there anything that you want to say to the audience just in general, before we kick things off?
00:04:25
Speaker
In starters, I think the fact that whomever you are, you're listening to this right now already sets you better than 50% in terms of pursuing excellence, pursuing health and life. The fact that you're pursuing a healthy masculinity podcast already tells me, you know, I'm talking to the right people. I'm speaking the language of people that are going to get it.
00:04:51
Speaker
that hopefully they can take something from our conversation and apply it to the world and their circle. Yeah. So that makes me hopeful for taking some time to hit record and have a chat between brothers because I think the men that are listening to this right now and even women will be able to quickly translate to their own worlds. And to me, that's like that's worth my time. Yeah. So I'm pumped for it. So my first question is,
00:05:21
Speaker
You know, vulnerability in the last couple of years really is kind of somewhat become a buzzword in certain circles. Um, but I, my question within that is why is it so attractive, meaning it's become a buzzword, but at the same time, so scary, like what's so scary about vulnerability for men? Somewhere along the lines, vulnerability got a really bad rap. It got.
00:05:49
Speaker
paired with men that got paired with like weakness and a myriad of other negative words like, you know, don't cry and all this stuff. And so I think the lack of understanding of what true vulnerability is, is scary for men. And, you know, some of the strongest men I know, the ones I look up to the most, the ones I respect the most,
00:06:13
Speaker
who lead and take authority and protect and guide are at the same time some of the most vulnerable men I know. So powerful and strong, yet they still lead and protect and care. It's not weakness. So I think why it's such a buzzword and why it is powerful and why it's something to pursue as a person and pursue in community and pursuing your marriage, et cetera,
00:06:44
Speaker
I would put vulnerability and authenticity as like best friends and people love authenticity. So if I'm being really authentic, I'm probably being quite vulnerable about where I am at in life and how I'm feeling and how I'm feeling. And sometimes that means being very vulnerable about maybe my successes or where I'm doing really well, like that takes a level of vulnerability. So it's not just
00:07:08
Speaker
I'm scared or something like this. It's like sometimes some areas of my life that I'm doing a really good job and it takes some vulnerability for me to talk about it with people and share my successes with people because maybe I won't hit the mark every time or maybe I'll fail. Yeah, that's probably the elevator speech. You just hit on something that's really interesting that I want to dig a little bit deeper on.
00:07:38
Speaker
And that is the whole piece of the strength of vulnerability, but specifically within that, as far as what you said in the sense of, it can feel really vulnerable to celebrate the good, to almost let yourself be cheered on by other men. And just how that can feel scary or not applicable to the relationship or whatever it may be,
00:08:07
Speaker
I think that at least in the circles that I run in and the friends that I have and I know the friends that you have, it's almost like we've learned how to risk. Risk is defined by letting people into your weakness in the sense of those weak moments, those moments I'm scared or whatever it may be. But how do you balance
00:08:30
Speaker
being authentic and vulnerable and let people celebrate you at the same time, not be proud. Yeah, it's definitely a tension. At the very beginning of this year, I set out to run a half marathon and the half marathon wasn't the goal. The goal was I lean towards passivity and if I'm not careful, passivity will eat my lunch.
00:09:00
Speaker
And I wanted to do something. Does it taste good? No, it's bitter and disgusting. I wanted to do something that kind of gave a giant little finger to passivity in my life. So I thought, okay, let me pick up a length of running I've never run before, which for me was a half marathon. And not just do, I mean, I could go the miles if I needed to, I could run, walk 13 miles. It wasn't about that. It was about, well, let me,
00:09:30
Speaker
do a training to work my way up to it. And let me stick to that training every day if I could. And so it was very vulnerable for me to share with my guy friends on this date, I'm going to run a half marathon. And I actually wanted to invite you guys to do it with me. And they were all about it and yes and amen. But what was more vulnerable was being really honest with them about
00:10:00
Speaker
the training process because that's why I was doing it so the days that I didn't want to or just straight up didn't do it and also the days are like guys I freaking crushed it and it was so much fun and like this is what I'm learning in it etc but I think it was vulnerable so this is like a very positive thing like I picked the half marathon I worked my way up to it and I ran it but it's like what if I don't do it what if I say I'm gonna do something and don't follow through and
00:10:29
Speaker
Also like it feels for me kind of vulnerable to also that day that I did it and achieved it. It felt awesome. It was a ton of fun. It was a big crescendo of like me falling through with something. Um, and then a couple of my guys came out because of COVID they got canceled, but I said, if you pass it, I'm doing it anyway. I just ran up the road 13 miles and back. And so my buddies came out, did it with me.
00:10:56
Speaker
And yeah, as I think about sitting around my fire that night, it felt somehow vulnerable to achieve this thing and to be kind of public with it. It wasn't a, hey, look at me, look how awesome I am. It was my friends celebrating with me that I chose to do something hard and positive and followed through on it. So
00:11:22
Speaker
One of my best friends, Jeremy, is running a half marathon in every state over the next three months, raising money to go over to Indonesia long-term. He shared with me and online on his Instagram account how scary it is to put this goal out there and he's living out of his van for the next three months and is going to do it. What if I get hurt? What if I can't? What if
00:11:51
Speaker
people don't join like they want people to join with them and he wants to raise money. What if I don't raise the money? Like it's this really cool, exciting thing. He's not braggadocious about it. He's like, actually, I'm pumped for myself and I'm doing this and I'm pumped for him, but it's kind of vulnerable to put yourself out there and it's scary.
00:12:09
Speaker
So yeah, it's not just I failed or I am struggling with this. Like those are, that is vulnerable and beautiful, but yeah, the positive side to the successes is equally as vulnerable. So I don't have to talk a lot about the, you can sniff out cockiness a mile away. You can tell when someone's being cocky and hey, look at me, look what I accomplished versus hey, join me. So yeah.
Adventures and Authentic Connections
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a couple of interesting points you hit on there. One is the whole aspect of community, right? I think a lot of times people get caught up in moving into pride when they don't have the relationships that help them stay grounded.
00:12:54
Speaker
an intricate part of that tension is balancing community as part of the celebration, as part of the challenge, as part of the process. So I love that. There's another thing that it might seem like it's not connected, but actually I think
00:13:12
Speaker
Your friend's example as far as what he's doing is a perfect segue to this question. I actually was torn between two topics to talk about with you. That was a lot of T's in a row. And that was whether to talk about vulnerability or talk about the need for adventure.
00:13:35
Speaker
Because I would say that's another one of your pillars. I mean, obviously, we talk about it often. It's more important to buy memories than it is to buy stuff in the sense of where you spend your money, that kind of stuff. We have a trip to Nicaragua, nine days, hopped on a motorcycle all over the country, climbed volcanoes. It was that. It was a memory that was adventurous.
00:14:01
Speaker
But segue from just the adventure piece or maybe to tie it into the conversation. How does kind of like your friend who is, you know, I'm doing this, I'm going for it. It's vulnerable. But there's also a big adventure component or piece to that vulnerability. So how does vulnerability or can you give us some advance, some examples of how vulnerability and adventure
00:14:28
Speaker
can and quite frankly should go together. Yeah, they do go together. And in the vein of community and friendship and building healthy masculine relationships, probably one of my biggest pieces of advice of how like how can you build really great authentic relationships with men would be
00:14:55
Speaker
Going on adventures and honestly, adventures doesn't have to be like we did a big one. You know, we did that motorcycle trip in the garage, but like even just like, let's go, let's go hike in three hours and camp together as men. And like, let's have a shared experience is probably the bigger for me, the bigger things do shared experiences versus do big adventures. Adventures are great, but just, yeah, shared experiences together.
00:15:23
Speaker
Um, really do, I think, especially connect men where you can have these memories that you can build on. And, um, you know, I, I've met with the same group of guys every Monday night for years now, but some of our best memories are the moments when we like went to my buddy's, um, parents' ranch out in Texas, which you were part of that too. And just having these moments together that you remember and that you mark, um,
00:15:52
Speaker
And adventure doesn't have to be expensive. It's never convenient, especially for men in their 30s, 40s who have children. It's never a convenient time to take the weekend. That's a great point. But it's always worth it. Just a couple of weeks ago, my buddies and I decided, actually sending off my buddy Jeremy. He's doing his half marathons all across the country.
00:16:18
Speaker
And then moving to Indonesia where kind of a farewell to him was we decided to get dropped off in Asheville, North Carolina and ride our bikes back home, which is Gainesville, Georgia. Okay. And none of us are like avid cyclist, but, and you know, it costs us a couple of motel stays and food for three days. And that's something we're going to remember the rest of our lives, overcoming challenges and hitchhiking and causing a car accident. And.
00:16:46
Speaker
Uh, injuring, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, who
00:17:14
Speaker
I mean, on that bike trip, day two of three days, we woke up early gearing up. I think we all kind of confessed to having butterflies in our stomach that day, as there was just a ton of unknown. It was going to be some of the biggest climbs of the trip on that second day. And we were like, are we going to be okay? Are we going to make it? Like, how's my body going to do? I'm tired. My butt hurts from yesterday. And.
00:17:40
Speaker
It was vulnerable to be in that position together, like, will we make it? What will happen? And we don't know. So yeah, adventure is vulnerable. And overcoming obstacles, almost every adventure I've been on with people, you know, you have to problem solve and overcome and lean on each other. And you see, you see really authentic sides of people when you're
00:18:07
Speaker
biking across the country or camping that you don't when you're just watching a movie or playing poker and talking about sports, you know, like those are good too. But yeah.
00:18:19
Speaker
Well, I mean, for the record, playing poker is an important part. And I'm holding up to the camera here a little poker trophy that I have from my group of guy friends that we have a revolving trophy for the person that wins for that week. I love it. And I happen to have it at my house. But I agree. I think there's there's a couple of things because there are times where poker nights can have those moments, but
00:18:45
Speaker
It's, I agree with you a hundred percent where the vulnerability normally shows up when it's something that is, and maybe adventure was the wrong word to use, but it's outside the norm. So then that can be broader as far as like what you said with the shared experience. It's, it's not your normal day to day rut routine, or even like for you and your friends, if you've been meeting for years.
00:19:08
Speaker
a norm or a normal could be meeting every Monday night. And so what does outside the norm look like for where your relationship is with somebody or a group of people?
00:19:19
Speaker
I think it's an important thing to weigh because outside the norm could be starting a small group of guys that meet every Monday night versus riding a bike for 150, 160 miles in three days. I think there's another big component where I've noticed even with my kids, especially my oldest son,
00:19:40
Speaker
where if, especially as guys, if we are busy doing something that all of a sudden we're not, we're not sitting down going, how's your heart? Tell me right now, like I'm here for you. Cry, don't cry. And if you're doing something, it doesn't matter what it is, playing catch with a baseball or building a fire or camping, just something that is engaging something else other than talking about that vulnerable side of you. A lot of times,
00:20:10
Speaker
I don't know what it is. It's like it lowers the guards that we normally have up as men and engages our mind, which we normally use to protect our heart, to then all of a sudden let the honest part of ourselves be seen, obviously for those that we've cultivated history and trust and relationship with. Now, that said, all of this sounds great, right?
Overcoming Excuses for Vulnerability
00:20:35
Speaker
I'm sure there's got to be some people that are saying, okay, great. Josh, Jeremy seems like you guys have done that to a degree. That's awesome. But, and I hear this often, especially with clients, which is where I live or where I am in life. I just don't have that. I just don't have guy friends. I just don't naturally make friends easily, or I don't easily make friends or, um, the guys that I know.
00:21:04
Speaker
wouldn't know what to do with vulnerability. Kind of those common thing, common default responses that are somewhat, sometimes they're convenient excuses for you to not be vulnerable. Sometimes they're semi legitimate, given your circumstances. But
00:21:21
Speaker
for those men specifically that say, you know what? This conversation on one hand sounds great. On the other hand, almost feels discouraging because I don't have what Jeremy has. And I don't even know where to start to try to get what Jeremy has. What would you say to those guys that really need to either
00:21:45
Speaker
either step it up a level in vulnerability or just engage in relationship differently than they have been to begin to cultivate that community of men around them. You know, I would, I would probably challenge you and say, how bad do you want it? You know, stop making excuses and, and put yourself out there and join a small group, join to this, you know, go out for that. Like, I don't know, like it's going to take work. And even I,
00:22:15
Speaker
personally have it laid out in front of me, like I've cultivated in a beautiful way to some degree. But even on Monday nights, the path of least resistance is for us to kind of just tinker on the fire and talk about work and not really go after it. It still takes energy, emotional and mental energy to do the engaging conversation that I know I actually want. Yeah.
00:22:39
Speaker
but it takes effort. It's the table set before me and I still don't want to eat every time. If you don't even have the table set before you, yeah, that's tough. You're not going to be sitting around on fire with three guys asking, how's your heart? Then planning on a bike trip next week. It took me months and hours and years to get to a place where that's where we landed.
00:23:00
Speaker
What can you do? So everyone in life, you've dealt some cards. Well, how are you going to play those cards? Okay, you don't have a group of guys. What do you got to do to get that? Oh, it's COVID, so nobody can really even meet right now. Okay, well, what are you going to do about that? What can you do? Who can you reach out to? All the front guys in my circle just talk about
00:23:26
Speaker
farts and sports and no one says anything of substance. Okay, we'll find some new friends or be or be strong enough to ask a really challenging question and see if there's one or two guys that meet you there and are waiting for someone to set the tone and break the call. Yes. Yes. So why don't you start there? And if that doesn't work, go find some new friends. You're a sum total of your five closest friends.
00:23:51
Speaker
So you look at the five closest guys and even gals around you in life that are near you, spending time with you, and that's who you become. So if you don't like the guys that are around you, maybe you find some different ones. But there might be some hidden gems around you that are waiting for someone to like you to lead the conversation, to ask the question. And human nature is we want it and we want it now.
00:24:19
Speaker
If you're starting from a bit of a ground zero, be okay with, with, if all you guys talk about is you play poker, which is awesome and actually kind of a shared experience for a lot of guys and great. And after poker, you ask, where's everyone failing and succeeding at work right now? Like I would think that's like not a very vulnerable question at all, but for guys who never talk really personally, that is quite vulnerable and see where the conversation goes. So stop making excuses and fight for it. You know,
00:24:49
Speaker
Treat it like a part-time job, creating some really great friendships. Do the pursuing, do the planning. Maybe you've got a group of guys, plan a camping trip, invite them over. Don't wait for them to invite you back. Just invite them again. Yeah, stop making excuses and go after it. You can do it. It's going to be difficult for sure and not easy for sure. To me, it's worth it.
00:25:16
Speaker
You need to measure that within yourself if this is going to be worth it, but it definitely will take time to cultivate and create, but it's for sure worth it.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah. I love that, Jeremy. I really do. It's because I know that we've talked about it several times, but our dad is not a proactive man in a lot of ways. He has great attributes, great qualities to him, but he's not the most proactive. And so even what you said earlier is in the sense of
00:25:47
Speaker
punching passivity and going after it and all of that That's something that i've even had to fight and I I hate the excuse That it's just oh, well women are naturally good at relationships and men aren't because it's It's one that I hear way too often and quite frankly i've used it myself in the past it's just really convenient right and
00:26:13
Speaker
I actually have, you sent me a PDF, so for those of you that say, okay, great, Jeremy just gave me one question to ask. I'm not gonna ask the how's your heart question, because the guys don't know what to do with that. He sent me a PDF, gosh, what was it, Jeremy, maybe nine months ago, a year ago, of 1,001 questions to ask. And they progressively get harder, or more intimate, or more thought-provoking.
00:26:44
Speaker
I don't remember the question off top of my head, but it's like, number one is, what do you think of the weather? And number 1,001 is, what's the meaning of life? And everything from either spectrum. So I'm going to add a link to that in the show notes for those of you that are interested and just say, I don't even know what questions to ask. Well, we're going to remove that excuse. Now you have 1,001 questions to ask that you can download and take a look at or pass along to a friend.
00:27:13
Speaker
with for men that are
00:27:18
Speaker
they're in this journey of cultivating relationship.
Leading by Example in Vulnerability
00:27:22
Speaker
They say, I hear you, Jeremy, it is something that I want to fight for, I feel afraid to fight for it, but I'm gonna do it. What would you say to those men who are kind of at that tipping point of wanting to dive deeper? But let's be honest, it is scary, it is intimidating,
00:27:45
Speaker
to be that man that kind of chooses to lead other men. And in the sense of not necessarily, hey, let's go charge that hill, but lead other men in the sense of initiating those questions. I've seen you do it in so many different settings where we are all sitting around dinner just talking, and then you drop a question that just changes the conversation.
00:28:11
Speaker
That's something that you have definitely cultivated, but it's also something that's not natural for anyone that I know of to do it in the way that you do it. So for those that feel like, Hey, that's great that you've done it and been able to do it. What would you say to them that that would help move them into that tipping point of just saying, Oh, you know what? Screw it. I'm just going to try and I'm going to see, I'm going to see if there are those men that want to respond that way because
00:28:39
Speaker
I'd be willing to bet for every guy listening, you have at least one other guy and that's really all you need to start that is waiting for some other man to lead by example and to initiate with that vulnerability. So what would you say to them? How do you want to be remembered in life? Like if you die tomorrow, what are people going to say about you? Do you want to be a man that
00:29:04
Speaker
actually takes life and the beauty and the highs and lows and the vulnerability and hardships of life and you're a leader and you set that you like show up you emotionally you spiritually you physically show up to life.
00:29:18
Speaker
That to me is a man who asks great questions, is a man who shows up to life and changes the conversation and you walk into work and people are gossiping about the boss and you have enough courage to change the conversation or to walk away. And there's, I guarantee you, there's men around you that are itching for that leadership. You might get rejected. So what? You might stumble over your words or ask the wrong questions. So what?
00:29:48
Speaker
and pulling the whole cliche if you died tomorrow, but it's so true. If you died tomorrow, what would people say about you at your funeral? How would they remember you? Would they remember you as a guy who just kind of dinked along and kind of hid in the shadows and did just enough to not get noticed and just kind of kept his head down or like a man who had convictions and stood up for what he believed in and
00:30:16
Speaker
and drew other men into a place of strength and vulnerability. My wife and other female friends of mine would say, when they see me and my guys get together, there's strength there. Women in the world are attracted.
00:30:38
Speaker
to men who are linking arms with other men and being honest and vulnerable and going on adventures and sharing, you know, super deep around the fire. Like we do on Monday nights, like that's attractive to them. They're like, what are you guys talking about? And what do you guys did? Like they're, they're curious about our group and like what we're about and whatever, because it's, it's attractive. So, um,
00:31:04
Speaker
I guess what I would say is similar, like, don't make excuses and just do it. The worst case scenario to me is not that bad. The worst case scenario is you lose some of your friends who are able to run with you at that level. And honestly, that's dramatic. You might not even have to lose your friends. You just don't have to give them your full time. And you can still have friends that have varying levels of male friendships. A couple that I
00:31:29
Speaker
uh go super deep with and they know everything about me and they know my failures and my successes and um and then i've got second and third tier friendships that i'm cordial and kind with and we'll update how my family's doing but they're not getting all of my vulnerabilities sure so yeah anyway yeah just freaking go after it man what are you waiting for that's awesome i love that
Adapting Relationships Through Life Changes
00:31:57
Speaker
I would add to that just as far as like the tears of relationship. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that is also because I've, as you know, I have moved a fair bit in my lifetime. You know, I've lived in, we grew up in the Midwest. I lived in Pennsylvania, Florida, California, Texas. And so in that it can also be, there are
00:32:24
Speaker
because what I've seen happen with people is they say, okay, this is my kind of core that I run with. And it becomes immovable or it's like locked in stone, but understand too that relationships are fluid. And there are times I know that
00:32:40
Speaker
When I had kids, all of a sudden there were certain guys that the relationship changed because we didn't have as much in common. They were still great guys. They still, I still liked them as friends, all of that. But the depth of the relationship couldn't, didn't have that same compatibility because just where we are in life is changed. And the same is true for moving. I have some really close friends.
00:33:05
Speaker
from years of cultivating relationship in California. And I talked to them periodically. I just went out there to shoot a three-day video shoot for a dream interpretation course that's launching here in a little bit. And just to connect with them and hang out with them, it was so much fun. But then I also, because now I'm in Texas, I am having to cultivate or kind of rebuild a community here.
00:33:30
Speaker
in relationship. It's not that I throw those away, but understand too, that it is fluid. It ebbs and flows given where you are in life, physically, as well as just where you are in life and the journey of life too. Let me ask you a question. How did you go from Marine Corps
00:33:52
Speaker
don't cry martial arts instructor, super shut down to your emotions. And vulnerability was for sure equal to weakness. Yeah, totally. Was he whatever to this whole picture of a man who valued and sees the strength and vulnerability. So obviously, that's a huge story and whatever, but I guess specifically vulnerable, you know, as a Marine,
00:34:19
Speaker
you know, corporal, vulnerability is weakness. Now, as a man in your 30s, who's successful in a dad, et cetera, who values your Marine Corps experience, but you're like, nope, I was wrong. Vulnerability is not weakness, it's strength. Was there a moment or a person, like how did you bridge those two extremes? That is a four hour answer.
00:34:45
Speaker
But I think if I were to give a two minute answer, the short version would be that, you know, I often say growing up, I don't recall many conversations around sex, money or emotions. And so it just wasn't talked about. And then obviously going in the Marines, it just kind of further reiterated any kind of emotion other than rage is rage is like the only accessible emotion. Right. Anything else is weakness.
00:35:14
Speaker
And so I basically used that after I got out of the Marines, I think there was two kind of pivotal moments in my life after the Marine Corps that did that. One was a few weeks after the Marines. Um, I had, I actually had dinner with a girl, I had a crush on, and she challenged me about, uh, said that I was running away from God. And I was like, Marine Corps, martial arts instructor, I don't run away from anybody, you know? And.
00:35:42
Speaker
Driving home from that, I realized, holy cow, I actually have been. I told friends in the Marines, I hate God. I wanted nothing to do with them. Really, I was hurt by my dad, and I imposed that onto my God. And so then that started a spiritual journey for me that kind of laid a foundation and softened my heart in a lot of ways, in certain ways. It softened my heart, but it didn't connect me to my heart.
00:36:10
Speaker
And so that kind of started this journey of I went around to family members that I felt like I hurt as far as the way that I acted out as a kid and apologized and all of that and ended up in Africa for nine months as part of that spiritual journey. But
00:36:28
Speaker
even within that. So there's a spiritual component. And then there was the emotional component of it, which was I had done all of that, a bunch of other things too. But then there was a moment when I was in California that I had spent
00:36:42
Speaker
Myself like everything I had in me to launch this company with a couple other people and we spent a year building it and We launched it and it didn't work. I mean and we lost a ton of money We basically lived off of our savings as well as the you know Significant investment that was put into the company
00:37:05
Speaker
And I basically burnt myself out in that. At the same time, I was addicted to looking at porn, just coping and managing. I was actually going to, so I was building this company and launching it, going to a ministry school in Reading, California, which is just, it was like another evolution in my spiritual journey. And at the same time was checked out, kind of shut down to my wife at the time.
00:37:37
Speaker
began to get shut down to just other relationships because I just didn't have the capacity. And then when it didn't work, it didn't launch, I just hit one of my rock bottoms. I don't think that there's one rock bottom that can turn you around. For me, it was
00:37:55
Speaker
In that moment, I had Blair, who was just a guest on a couple of episodes previously. He randomly reached out to me the week that that company launched and crashed and just said, Hey, I don't know if you remember me, but I just wondered if you wanted to grab lunch. And we had one business meeting like a year before that. And he just literally just thought of me in that moment. And we had lunch. Um,
00:38:23
Speaker
And really what it was is in that lunch, I was desperate. I was broken. I was broken down. I was like, man, I literally don't know what to do. I gave everything I had to this company. And he's like, well, I don't have the answer to that, but there is a men's group that I go to that meets every Monday night. Must be a thing. And, um, you know, you're more than welcome to come if you want. And, and I was just at this place of desperation where I just said, okay, I'll do it. And.
00:38:52
Speaker
That was, that's what I would say was really what began the emotional journey side of me, where I started meeting, I met with a guy every week for nine months and it was largely what's going on internally. And until that time, it was, I don't meet with a counselor or a life coach or life, I'll listen to CDs, I'll listen to podcasts, I'll take courses. I'm not meeting with somebody, I'm not sitting, I literally sat down in my first session with this guy and I just said, okay, so-and-so recommended me.
00:39:22
Speaker
So I trust you. My time is valuable. So I'm paying you this much and we have 45 minutes left. So I'm curious as to what you're going to do with the information I just gave you. And he literally just sat there for probably like a good 30 seconds of awkward silence. And it was the first time I had slowed down enough to feel anything.
00:39:44
Speaker
And, um, and I just started crying and then didn't stop in certain ways off and on for, for months because of the backlog of suppression that I had created. And, and so I would attribute it to really those two times in my life where I can point back to and say, it took those two extremes, um, to really shift my internal direction to point me to where I am today.
00:40:14
Speaker
Do people have to hit rock bottoms to become emotionally aware and choose vulnerability?
00:40:22
Speaker
Absolutely. A hundred percent. It's the only way through the door. No, I mean, my hope is that more people will learn from, you know, learn from my mistake, not to sound like a marketer, but it really is. That's why I launched this podcast. There was a couple of reasons why, but that was one of them was, you know, if there is one or two guys that listened to it and learn how to ask hard questions or
00:40:50
Speaker
connect to their heart or realizing that they're chasing the wrong definition of success or begin to integrate dreams into their life or whatever it may be that from what I have learned from, I think if you choose like anything in life, but if you choose to make it a priority and implement it and really integrate it, you don't have to hit rock bottom to make it a pivot point. I think you can you can choose to make it make a conscious decision internally to shift and then
00:41:20
Speaker
over time to begin to peel back the layers that you have built either around your heart or your internal paradigm that has you going in the wrong direction. Yeah, that's good. Yep. So one last question.
Self-Care and Healthy Masculinity
00:41:33
Speaker
You're actually the first guest that I'm going to ask this question to you, but I'm actually going to start asking every guest this question. Okay. And well, actually we're going to have a series where I have four or five women that are going to be on
00:41:47
Speaker
because I want to talk about masculinity from a female's perspective. So I won't be able to ask the same question. But for you and for the men that I have on as guests, as a man for where you are today, what's one thing that you wish you knew related to masculinity 10 years ago? I'm 33. So when I was 23, I think I wish I knew that me
00:42:17
Speaker
Taking care of myself physically, emotionally, spiritually was the number one thing that I could do to make me a healthier version of myself for my wife, for my community, for people around me. A little bit with the passivity vein, you know, would be everything for everyone, would probably be a bit of a doormat, would take care of myself last, and it was all just false humility. It was
00:42:43
Speaker
It was, it was ego hidden in, Hey, look at me. I'm so kind. I, I will, I will have no boundaries in my schedule or life. I'll say yes to every chance to go help someone move or fill in for this or fill in for that. And I think I just wish I knew that if I had better boundaries, if I took care of my, and like in a weird way, like prioritize myself, like in a healthy way. Yeah.
00:43:11
Speaker
that that would have really helped me level up and be a really healthy masculine presence in my marriage and my French and even at work. There's some men I know that I would almost give the opposite advice to like get out of your navel gazing and show up with people. You're not that important. So it's a nuanced answer. You need to kind of know on the spectrum. But for me, I looked really
00:43:38
Speaker
good on the outside and I was so helpful. If you know Enneagram, I'm a classic two, the need to be needed. And I was at 23, a really unhealthy version of a two. And now I'm a much more well-rounded version of a two. So yeah, then obviously still definitely learning that and ironing those kinks out for me. But
00:44:08
Speaker
Yeah, even now in this amidst of this pandemic we're in, I'm presently working from home again a bunch because there's a small outbreak around us. I've got small kids at home, I've got a wife, and the last couple of weeks every day I've been in the middle of the day when I really have lots of other things, little eyeballs looking at me that I could be with. I'm choosing to go on these runs every day on my lunch break.
00:44:37
Speaker
And I know it could look selfish to people, but it is actually the most selfless thing I could do because I am a better man. I'm a better dad. I'm a better husband when I had these moments of taking care of myself. So 10 years later, it's still hard for me. It's not the path of like the natural path. It's still very much a choice. So, yep. I love it, man. I love it.
00:45:06
Speaker
Well, thank you for taking the time. I know that I know that you would do it because you're a two and you love me, but
00:45:19
Speaker
Now, I really do appreciate you taking the time and for what you shared. For those who don't know, I guess one thing I didn't point in my introduction is, can you just take 30 seconds and share what it is that you do for a living and how people can support you in what you do for a living?
Jeremy's Work with Gen Z
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah. About a decade ago, I went on this mission strip called the World Race. It was 11 countries in 11 months.
00:45:47
Speaker
and had the time of my life opened my eyes in a lot of very positive ways. And I've been with them ever since in multiple different capacities. And now I get to spend my days helping Gen Z wake up to a kingdom way of life. And when statistics are very bad about Gen Z walking away from God and the church,
00:46:12
Speaker
You know, we get the opportunity, you know, every year hundreds of them are knocking on our door saying, Hey, send me, I want to go. I want to have an experience. And so we're a mission organization, but we're honestly primarily a discipleship organization. So, um, we take men and women on adventures and shared experiences and teach them how to be vulnerable. And we're doing it with, um, I'm presently overseeing our college age and high school stuff. So I'm doing it with.
00:46:39
Speaker
15, 16, 17, 18 year olds and teaching them the voice, how to hear God's voice and how to cultivate community and how to serve and get outside their immediate worlds. And it's, yeah, it's really exciting to be a part of. And as of recently, we've shifted almost all of our efforts towards America. And it's been really fun to see
00:47:04
Speaker
see a ton of results and fruit and people finding God still and find a community in the midst of American cultures we put them in instead of like the norm for us being overseas. Yeah, I am just really privileged and honored to be able to give my hours and my days to something to me that's super meaningful.
00:47:32
Speaker
So that's what I do for a living. Yeah, I do raise money, part of my salary. So if you're interested in supporting me help Gen Z live a kingdom way of life, Josh can maybe put something in the show notes to... Yeah, yeah. We'll put a direct link so that people can, if they want to do a one-off or... I know that for you, consistency in that. So if you want to commit even just 10 bucks a month, it makes a big difference for you. I mean, you've got
00:48:00
Speaker
three small kids and you're actually raising money while living in the United States with a family. So I really admire that part of you. So we'll add a note. So there's going to be a couple links within the show notes. One will be to the PDF with the thousand questions, thousand and one questions. And then another will be if you really felt, even if you got one thing from
00:48:23
Speaker
this podcast episode as I would ask as a thank you, give Jeremy five bucks and just say, I want to take you out to coffee.
00:48:33
Speaker
or coffees on me, or if you want to give $1,000, that's great too. But I think a small something for his time and for the years of depth and wisdom that he has cultivated and shared would be a very giving gesture. So again, Jeremy, thank you. Love you. And I'm sure either you'll be at my house soon or I'll be at your house soon, one way or the other. We've made a commitment. We haven't missed it yet. All right. Bye.