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S2E23 - Who? Kristin McQuaid, Founder of "London is the Reason"
57 Plays25 days ago
On today's episode, we have the incredible Kristin McQuaid sharing her profound journey through infertility, surrogacy, loss and the inspiring way she turned the most heartbreaking moment of her life in to something amazing beautifully and good. Kristin opens up about the devastating loss of her daughter, London, and the beautiful ways London’s life has left a lasting impact.
In this conversation, Kristin takes us through the creation of her unique nonprofit, 'London is the Reason,' which supports parents and surrogates navigating the loss of a child. She discusses the emotional journey of coping with loss, grief, and finding a path to healing after the unimaginable.
We'll delve into the complexities of moving forward after loss, the readiness to grow a family again, and the unique challenges faced by intended parents and surrogates. Kristin’s story doesn't end in sadness—she shares the joy and love that came with the births of her children, Bexley and Ford.
This episode is a testament to Kristin's resilience, hope, and the unwavering power of love. Tune in to hear her inspiring story and discover how Kristin's journey can offer solace and strength to anyone facing similar challenges. I know this episode will tug at your heartstrings and inspire you to find hope in the face of adversity.
Takeaways
-Kristin's journey through infertility led her to explore surrogacy as a way to start a family.
-The loss of her daughter, London, inspired Kristin to create the nonprofit 'London is the Reason' to support others facing similar challenges.
-Celebrating the lives of lost children and finding purpose in their memory is a powerful way to navigate grief and honor their impact.
-The readiness to grow a family after loss is a personal and complex decision, especially for intended parents and surrogates.
-The unique challenges faced by intended parents and surrogates in the context of loss and family growth require specialized support and understanding.
Links
https://www.londonisthereason.org/
Book: https://www.londonisthereason.org/an-angel-gave-us-our-angel-book
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone. October is the month where we observe, honor, and offer safe space for those who have been affected by pregnancy and infant loss. Before we begin this episode, I do want to let you know that we will be discussing infant loss. We understand that this can be a very sensitive and emotional subject. If you find this topic distressing, we do encourage you to take care of your wellbeing and consider skipping this episode. If you need support,
00:00:29
Speaker
Please look at our show notes for resources as well as consider reaching out to a friend, family member, or mental health professional. On today's episode, I had the honor of speaking with Kristin McQuid. Kristin is a choreographer, director, and mother to three beautiful children, but her path to motherhood was filled with challenges and heartbreak as she navigated infertility, surrogacy, and loss. Kristin opens up about the devastating loss of her daughter of London and the lasting impact London's life has had.
00:01:05
Speaker
Kristen shares her emotional journey of coping with grief and finding a way to heal after such an unimaginable loss by turning her most heartbreaking moment into an impactful mission with the creation of London is the reason, a nonprofit that supports parents and surrogates navigating the loss of a child.
00:01:28
Speaker
but Kristen's story doesn't end there. We also talk about her path forward after loss, deciding to grow her family again and the unique challenges faced by intended parents and surrogates as they navigate this unique journey in the face of the unimaginable. This episode is a testament to Kristen's resilience, hope, and the incredible power of love. I can't wait for you to hear her inspiring story and hear all about how London is The reason? Me, you, and who? Who knew it would take more than two people to have a baby? In a world where infertility is no longer a taboo topic, this podcast will take you through all of the different aspects of surrogacy and egg donation through the lens of many who walk this journey in different ways. My name is Whitney Hall, and I am a two-time Surrogate Now Turned Surrogacy Coordinator for Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions.
00:02:27
Speaker
the very agency I used when I chose to carry for two amazing families. With this podcast, it is our goal to help guide and support you as you learn about what it takes to grow a family in an alternative way, as well as hear inspiring and beautiful stories of how this path has changed lives forever. We can't wait for you to hear about just one more way happy families are created every day.
00:02:57
Speaker
Hi, Kristin. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so happy to be here as well. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Well, no, truly it is a pleasure to have you here and just I know talking about something so special and so near and dear to your heart. But before we get started about talking specifically about London is the reason I would love to just go back in time and just how did surrogacy even become part of your world?
00:03:32
Speaker
Well, you know, honestly, I didn't even know surrogacy existed. I love it. oh Just to be honest, for all of those out there that are like, I'm going through this and I was in the same boat as you, Kristen, I had no idea. Yes. Yeah, it's crazy. I always wanted to be a mom, actually got two twins when I was a very little girl. And I always told my mom, I'm going to have so many babies and I'm going to have twins first and it's going to be great. and I always wanted to be a mom. um My career kind of um took priority. I grew up in Southern California, and I was in film and television. So cool. Yeah, I was on Days of Our Lives. I've danced with Britney Spears. I've danced in print music videos. Oh gosh. Yeah, so I was like very career driven. Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker
um A lot of people don't get that opportunity. So I wanted to make sure I soaked it all in yeah before I moved on to being a mother. yeah I met my husband actually at a wedding in Houston. we used When we lived in Houston um ah for a little bit when I was a child, um I grew up with a bride and he was the best man.
00:04:51
Speaker
So we met there and he told me he was from Oklahoma. And I said, I don't know where that is.
00:05:04
Speaker
Honestly had no idea. It's above Texas. And I was like, right here Oh, so like, the country like cows roam around the streets and he was there you go yeah not like where i live but in places yes sure we were long distance for four years because i was not ready to leave my career yeah and I just was like, I can't see myself moving to Oklahoma. That is absolutely bonkers. I am not doing that. Well, this is not the lifestyle amongst all the dancing and all of the... Yeah, no. No, we're not going from like, yeah okay, everybody quiet on set. Here we go. Britney Spears, who were living in teepees. No, no, no, we're not doing that.
00:05:54
Speaker
So I one day woke up and said, you know what? If I was to walk away right now from my career, ah hu i would be I would feel accomplished. I have done commercials and movies. And I've done it all where I could say, you know, I've done it. And I think I'm ready for that next chapter. So I called up my husband, Steve, and I said, I'm ready to move to Oklahoma. And he was like, OK.
00:06:23
Speaker
Are you okay? Are you feeling okay? And I said, no, I'm serious. He said, why is this a fever dream? He's like, this is this can't be right. um And so i I woke up the very next morning at 5 AM m and I said, I still have the same feeling. I'm ready to move. And so I have now lived in Oklahoma for 17 years. Oh my gosh, look at you. And I have to say at first, it was interesting.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, well, culture shock, I'm sure. I love the balance between the two because I still traveled back to California to work. I was on the other side of the camera, so um I actually still do choreography, creative directing, so producing. So I do all of in on the other side of the camera now, which is just amazing. I love it so much. um But the balance between the two was fantastic.
00:07:20
Speaker
um And so that's just kind of like a little backstory of me in a shell and how I ended up with my husband in a strange state called Oklahoma. And um so getting to where we are in surrogacy and how how am I even here talking to you?
00:07:40
Speaker
is um I thought in sex ed how they teach you in school when chefs you're going to have a baby. And so, you know, we were ready to start our family. This was ah now 15 years ago, I want to say. And um it wasn't so easy.
00:08:03
Speaker
we Always thought, oh, you know what? This happens. Let's just take a few years. The doctors are saying it just will it will happen. You just need to calm down. You need to do you know all the things yeah all the things that people say um can about how this can happen. And you know Sally down the street has 12 babies. She tries one time and then she has the baby. right. Kristin. No, not Kristin. She is. but Yeah. So, you know, they give you all I had went to the doctor, they gave me um all of the medicine to drop more eggs. Sure. um I developed stage four endometriosis. Oh, gosh. And I it was so
00:08:56
Speaker
painful to the point where I almost felt embarrassed to tell my husband that it felt like knives when we had sex.
00:09:07
Speaker
Like, I was in so much pain, but I wanted a baby so bad. Yeah. But I was like, you know what? It's fine. Maybe this is just the way it is. I don't know. Oh, Kristen. It was so painful. So I finally went to the doctor. I was like, this is not right. So they went in, and you know, they can't diagnose you in the the dark, in the room. Right, right. They have to like, yeah, absolutely.
00:09:35
Speaker
And um I was in there, which was supposed to be a 20-minute surgery. It ended up being an hour and a half. Oh, my gosh. And I ended up staying in the hospital that night. The doctor came out and said this was the worst case of endometriosis I have ever seen. Oh, my goodness. And I still didn't ever think, like, this is going to stop me from having children. Right.
00:10:03
Speaker
I'm cleared out now. He's gone. Yeah, we fixed it. We've done the things. Yes. It's gone. It's gone. So he said, if you're going to get pregnant, it's going to be now, because you're cleaned out. Wow. So I was like, great.
00:10:17
Speaker
i So we ah kept trying again. And um we actually were able to conceive. I got pregnant. and um week six, we went in for the heartbeat scan. Yeah. And baby didn't have a heartbeat. So, um you know, i it was...
00:10:43
Speaker
It was like I already knew, kind of, because I wasn't very attached. I don't know. It's almost like my body was telling me, like don't get attached to this one, Kristin. I don't know. It's a very hard, emotionally way to put it. But I just, I was very, very sad. um But I was ready to try again. Yeah, sure. Because I knew that it was so common.
00:11:11
Speaker
um And I, all but I also thought like a loss is a loss, you know, yeah at any stage. And so that- Well, I don't think there's a there's a wrong way to navigate that, right? Like everybody navigates that and there' in their own way. and yeah And I think it's beautiful that you had that internal, you know, just clock on yourself as far as, you know, just navigating that. And you're right, a loss is a loss, but how someone navigates that is so unique to them.
00:11:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, yeah you're right. I mean, it's it could be, you know, a week or two weeks that you get so attached to this baby, or you could be, you know, somewhere like myself where it's like, we're just, we're ready to continue on again. yeah um And so we continued on and my endometriosis came back.
00:12:02
Speaker
ah Um, and it came back 10 fold. Oh, geez. Um, so I had another surgery and it was the same thing. It was like a repeat. We tried again. We got pregnant again. We had a miscarriage.
00:12:17
Speaker
um So the positive, I think, was that I knew I could get pregnant. The positive was that my body was accepting that we were going to get pregnant. Right. um Until the endometriosis was just so bad and I was in so much pain that I ended up a couple years after having to go back again and they were like, Kristin, we can keep doing this, but I think your best outcome is gonna be a hysterectomy. And that was like knives to my heart. yeah I just like saw all of my dreams as a mom just being like shattered. Cause I was like, now how am I gonna have a baby? Like yeah I obviously know I can adopt. Still at this point, I don't know anything about surrogacy. And so I'm thinking like,
00:13:13
Speaker
Well, I don't I don't know what to do. I guess I'll just never be a mom. I guess that's it. So I was so defeated. And I, I just kept I, I feel like I went on to Google if Dr. Google Dr. Google Yes, absolutely. ah For better for worse. im telling you And you always find the right answer whether you have an answer you're looking for. Yeah, there you go. um
00:13:42
Speaker
the funny thing is like, it's not just one answer. It's like all of the answers. All the answers. Yeah, absolutely. Whatever you think it's right. Sure. Yeah. So I then discovered that surrogacy existed. And today in 2024,
00:14:08
Speaker
It is so relevant. I feel like people are talking about surrogacy. just as much as they're talking about natural birth. And it is the most beautiful music in my ears yeah because that is how I started my family. yeah And ah if anyone asks me today, how would you recommend going about having a baby? My number one answer would be surrogacy. And that is because it is the closest
00:14:42
Speaker
you can have as a mother like myself that can't carry children to carrying a child. ah You're a part of it. you it's I felt everything that my surrogate felt. And it was it was a beautiful journey. It really, really was. I love that. I love that. So fast forwarding a little bit, you you went down the road of surrogacy.
00:15:12
Speaker
You were there for delivery day, but it didn't go how you were expecting. Girl, we had the mom shirts, the dad shirts. My parents flew in. We were ready. You were ready.
00:15:29
Speaker
so ah We drove down to Dallas. That's where my time was. And so we took the four hour ah road trip down there. Steve and I had no idea what we were doing. We quickly realized, wait a minute, we're about to be parents and we don't even know what we're doing. Right. And no one ever does. They don't even give you a booklet. Nothing. they just like Nothing. Exactly. No, no manual.
00:15:57
Speaker
So I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We have to get prepared. Turn on all the podcasts about being parents. OK, let's do it. buy that Crash course. Crash course. Let's do it. So there we were listening to all the podcasts about how to bring home a baby and you know what do you did when you walked in before with the baby. Oh my gosh. So we got there and um we exchanged gifts with our surrogate. her mom had a nice dinner prepared for us and um it was just a beautiful last hurrah before that. Yeah. hospital And so, I woke up that next morning and I have a very, I think I have a very good inner clock like you said because something
00:16:50
Speaker
came over me to ask my surrogate if they had hooked up my daughter London to the heart monitor yet. Sure, yeah. And she was like, no, not yet. This was very, very much COVID times. So they were like, we have to do the COVID test still. They're still hooking everything up. So I was like, okay, can you let me know when they do? yeah Now, let me just tell everyone listening. I have never once asked any medical questions during my entire journey. Right, you were just taking it all in. I never, yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
It's almost like it you think it's a guarantee. like It's almost like you're going in to buy a car, right? Where you're like, i this is the product that I'm going to buy and I'm going to get that product. where you Because it's a business transaction, right? like You're basically renting a belly to say,
00:17:50
Speaker
nourish my little baby, and then I'll take it from you. Sure, to to to make it the most basic of basic. Right, exactly. Yeah. To level it down to like, you know, Kristin terms. Sure, yeah. Move into the belly.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, so that's kind of what I'm thinking. Nothing can go wrong, not anything like a normal pregnancy, because this is a special pregnancy. And that's all what's ah going in my mind, right? Yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
so um The surrogate stops responding to me and I'm thinking she's busy. She's in with the doctor. She's getting hooked up. ah We go to the hospital and I ring the bell and I'm like, we are here. yeah My baby is being delivered today. My surrogate is here. And they said, have a seat. She's in with the doctor and we'll be right out to get you. I was like, okay.
00:18:50
Speaker
Sure. So I've never had a baby before. Perfect. Yeah. So ah the doctor or a nurse came back and said, come this way. And she brought us to this really dark um testing room. Oh. And she sat us sat us down and said, the doctor will be in to see you. And I was like,
00:19:11
Speaker
Wait a minute. I don't see my surrogate here. ah And this is not a labor and delivery room. Like this is like something where you just go and like give your blood. I don't know. This is not right.
00:19:25
Speaker
so within two minutes maybe the doctor and two nurses walk in and the doctor this day is just like so vivid to me like it's a day I never ever I could remember every moment and picture in my head um she looked right at me and said it's not good ah she doesn't have a heartbeat and this was 39 weeks on her due day and
00:19:58
Speaker
she was not alive. My immediate reaction was,
00:20:11
Speaker
am I awake? Because I was, I know it's early, maybe I'm still sleeping. So I was like pinching myself and I'm like, no, I'm awake. And then I was like, this this can't be right. This can't,
00:20:28
Speaker
be real, like how could this happen to me? How could we just went through 14 years of infertility? We just went through surgery after surgery after loss. And we're finally here within minutes. The baby that we are ready to take home is gone.
00:20:57
Speaker
it
00:21:00
Speaker
was ah horrible. um
00:21:06
Speaker
It is a feeling I ah can't even put into words and that is why I always say a miscarriage or a stillbirth at any stage is so validated and is so important to celebrate their lives because You never know how ah it emotionally is affecting that mom. um I was very lucky to get to 39 weeks with London. I was very, I look back now and I can say with a smile on my face how lucky I was to be able to hold my sleeping baby and to see her.
00:21:58
Speaker
ah I wanted to leave right away. i said to I turned to my husband and I said, let's take my parents back to the airport and let's go home. I want to go home. i don't It's almost like I just wanted to like close out everything that I had just spent the last year on. That was my life. yeah I spent every waking second for London and it was all gone. And I i didn't know what what else to do. That was my initial response. And one of the nurses came out and said, we have London all dressed and she's beautiful and she's perfect. And when she used the word perfect, I lost it. Because I was like,
00:22:57
Speaker
She's not perfect. Because if she was perfect, she would be breathing and she would be here with me. yeah But now, almost three years later, I know what she meant. London is so perfect. And she... is the reason I am who I am today. And in the very beginning of your podcast, when you started, you said you wanted to talk about London as the reason. And i I always forget to tell this story, and that's why I wanted to bring it up real quick. Yeah. um Because I feel like it's so important, and I always forget to say this part when I talk before you.
00:23:47
Speaker
so um you know We had to drive home, right? And we had the empty car seat. i'm We ended up staying in the hospital, not on the labor and delivery floor, but I was mentally not okay to drive home. yeah um And so they just wanted to like keep an eye on me. I also didn't want to leave my surrogate. I wanted to leave when she was discharged.
00:24:12
Speaker
um That was very important to me from the very beginning. And yeah even when um London didn't make it, I still wanted to honor that my surrogate also was facing loss.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah. And so I had to make sure I honored that and protected her as well. So um we got home, and my sister had moved everything in the house. She drove 24 hours straight from Las Vegas, walked into our home, moved everything baby. And it was baby Disney World in here. It was. Yeah, oh yeah. Everything was perfect.
00:24:57
Speaker
And so she hit everything and I walked in and that was the worst feeling. oh Walking in empty handed, worst feeling. So I walk into my closet to get a sweatshirt because I was full and going through my sweatshirts and I had come across this sweatshirt that I had ordered about six months before London was born, that I went on to Etsy, which girls, if you're not a part of Etsy. Everything's there. ah Dangerous.
00:25:33
Speaker
danger So I wanted to get something that said London on it. And I didn't want like the London, I didn't want it to be cheesy, you know? Sure, sure. London sweatshirt. And this one sweatshirt came up that said London is the reason. And I was like,
00:25:53
Speaker
You know what? I love the font of this. Yeah. I have no idea what it means, but I'm going to buy it. So I bought it and I wore it when I was teaching in California. ahha I think this was like right when I got it. So like six months before London was born and I was preparing myself to have people ask me questions about what my sweatshirt meant. Because I also was wondering what it meant. What it meant. So I was thinking, OK, London is the reason I'm a mom. London is the reason I'm so tired. And because you've kept me up all night. So I am prepared with these questions in my head. And there it was in my closet.
00:26:45
Speaker
when I opened it up, when I'm going through and I saw that sweatshirt and I was like, wow. yeah Wow. I now know the real reason behind this sweatshirt. Like I just got the chills because how random that I would buy this sweatshirt. Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
and I put it on and I was like, London is the reason I'm going to keep going and I will become a mom to a baby on earth. London is the reason I will help so many future mommies and daddies. Yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
become parents and not give up. London is the reason that my surrogate will be able to continue on with life, even though she needs that. Like the the reasoning just behind London is the reason is endless. So I actually messaged the guy on Etsy and I was like, this is really crazy. And I don't know what the real reasoning behind your sweatshirt. Sure. I want to tell you what it is to me and he said he was calling the entire thing. You read the the my message to him and it was just it it made me say that's
00:28:24
Speaker
That's the re she's the reason I'm going to start a nonprofit. There you go. Yeah. and Yeah. Still to this very, very day, I have people saying London is the reason I became a NICU nurse.
00:28:40
Speaker
um There was a nurse that was there for London and she said, I always carry a picture of London's feet that we took that day. And she was the reason why I got into NICU and why I continued this. She was my reason. And I was like,
00:29:01
Speaker
Wow. Like London is so incredible. And I knew she was going to be the second I saw her. The second that door opened and I got to see London, it was, i it's like she had a purpose. She didn't need to be on this earth to show me her purpose, to show me her reason. It's already here. And so the loss still makes me ill every day. I think about London 24 seven. yeah um I talk about her all the time and she is celebrated just like she would be if she was on earth. And that that is something that if you are facing loss right now or if you have gone through loss, that is the number one tip that I can give you as far as grieving is celebrate your child.
00:29:58
Speaker
Don't talk about him if you're gone. Right. what What did that look like in those early days for you before you started London is the Reason, the nonprofit, which I'm so excited to talk to you about. But what did those early days look like for you and Steve as you're navigating that grief and you know you come home to all the baby stuff gone? and Because I think that's, I know that something so hard for your loved ones around you. do Do I go and remove all of the baby stuff or do we, like, what what what do we do? You know, that kind of thing. How did you guys navigate that and get to that point of we're gonna celebrate London always and say her name and she's part of our family whether, you know, even though she's not Earthside and just getting to that point. What was that like? It was horrible. Yeah. No, be honest. It's horrible. Yes.
00:30:58
Speaker
horrible I think that people look at me now and say, how can she talk about her daughter like that? Like I can barely get up bed. yeah and Let me just tell you guys, I was not okay. yeah i was I was basically in a coma in my bed for four days.
00:31:20
Speaker
me had to come in and force water down my throat and like wow made me, I did not leave my room at all. yeah um I so scared to turn my phone on in the hospital because I didn't want people to say, I'm sorry. i didn't either It was almost like knives like in my heart. Every time someone would say,
00:31:49
Speaker
I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm just like, it's digging at it every time. This was very raw. So we're talking like at the hospital to like a week after. um And I don't, I did not turn my phone on. I don't think for like three weeks after London passed and I'm glad I didn't.
00:32:16
Speaker
because there were, I had Steve go through all of my ah voicemails and texts and a lot of them were like, you're probably soaking up motherhood right now. Oh, sure. Congratulations. And then some of them were like, are you okay? You haven't posted anything about London on social media. And I'm a very public person on social media. And so I'm assuming that everyone was like,
00:32:45
Speaker
something must have happened because she hasn't posted. But I didn't want to see it. I didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to see it. And so my husband, um he jokes about it now, but he said he he went and got me a burner phone because the only person I wanted to talk to was my surrogate.
00:33:05
Speaker
And I think the reason why that felt so comforting to me was um because I felt like she was London still. I felt like she held London for so long and she got to feel London and she held London that I felt like that was my only hope in communicating with London.
00:33:33
Speaker
Right. That was your connection. Yeah. That was it. And so I didn't want to talk to anybody but her. And so when I was able to wake up for a few minutes at a time in bed, I would, now it wasn't easy to text because Steve got me the phone that was like with the one where you have to, if you want to see, you have to go one, two, three. Sure.
00:33:58
Speaker
It was impossible to tell. Honey, could you not have gotten me an easy ... I'm already struggling here. Can you not ... Now I got to really sit here and think about it. Oh my gosh, it was impossible. Really, my text messages were very limited in in words, but it was really bad. i My whole family flew in, um yeah just like I feel like any family's members would want to be there for their loved ones after facing loss. not But I didn't want to see them. I felt so embarrassed. I felt like I let everyone down. This was the one job that I had to do to provide
00:34:50
Speaker
for a baby and I let everyone down. and wow i' Like I said, I just felt embarrassed. I felt ashamed and I felt like I did something wrong, which I know that a lot of parents in loss feel like they did. They blame it on themselves because they don't know where else to turn.
00:35:13
Speaker
sure ah Something interesting that I would pass on to those that are dealing with loss and something that um affected me you know in a way that I feel like has helped other people that I've talked to is um I walked out of my bedroom and it looked like a cemetery. There was white flowers everywhere.
00:35:43
Speaker
And every time I walked out, there was just more and more and more. And I get it, it is very, like that is just your way of showing love and appreciation and saying, we're thinking of you, here's some flowers. But I think for a baby,
00:36:05
Speaker
white is very hard. um I wanted color. I wanted to have life back in me and i because I already felt so lost and white was so lost to me. So it was like day five, I think. I walked out, my mom said, Kristen, I know you're obviously in a state of mind where you can't think straight, but there's something that that's bothering you more than normal. What is it? And I said, i I hate these flowers. I hate them. Yeah, sure. Hated them. And she said, I didn't even think twice. She said, let's throw them out. Great. Let's get them out. Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
there was one person that sent a beautiful rainbow color bouquet. And I had it right in the middle. I lied. There was another person that sent a plant and it is still alive to this day. Hey, that's a big one. Good for you, plant mama. I don't even have a green thumb. So this plant is- That's a special plant. Yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
so um Note to families, if you're going to send something, flowers to me just aren't it because flowers die. Yeah. So not only are you having to like keep them alive and then when they die, you have to throw them out. yeah which That mentally is just not right. Yeah. so The plant idea was beautiful, something that was my favorite gift.
00:37:56
Speaker
from someone was a gift card to our local nursery. And we got a tree with um London was wrapped in a beautiful lavender blanket that one of the volunteers at the hospital made. And so lavender is her color. And so we picked out a beautiful tree with these flowers that um attract butterflies and that's vexs and that's that's my other daughter. That's London's um spirit animal is ah butterflies. I see her everywhere every day and um so we picked out the tree and we buried, we put some of her ashes underneath the tree and so it's the London tree and so now it has blossomed to be such this beautiful tree that we get to see bloom every spring
00:38:52
Speaker
And to me, that is life. That brings such a beautiful spirit and energy to London rather than flowers that might last a week.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I just suggest if you're going to give something or if you want to help, because you know, you're thinking like, how do I help? so I just had somebody reach out to me this past week. It has been a very busy London is the reason week. um Lots of loss, which is so unfortunate. But had somebody reach out to say, what do I say? What do I do? How do I act?
00:39:34
Speaker
And the the thing I can say to you is think long-term. Think um of something that you can honor. And it might not be right away. Don't think that you have to get something immediately for these people or anything. I'm sorry and move on. Don't say, I'm sorry, what happened? How can I help you? There's no help.
00:40:03
Speaker
they're At this point, there's no help. There's no help. And there's no need to put the mental load of how can I help? i can't I can't even get out of bed for five days. I can't sit here and tell you what I need. I don't know what I need. I'm literally having to focus on breathing at this point. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that, that like you said, it's it's just such an important time to just say, I'm sorry, I'm here for you.
00:40:31
Speaker
And that's all you need to hear. Ignoring the issue is bad. I've had people that were at my baby shower that I saw, I think a couple of weeks after the loss that acted like nothing had happened. They had a normal conversation with me um and never brought up the elephant in the room. And that is horrible. Yeah. Well, I think you said it best. It was, you said, how am I going to celebrate London? And yes, it's a loss. Oh God, it's a horrible loss. But to celebrate her is the goal. Whether it's just, I mean, I i know
00:41:29
Speaker
Unfortunately, I have talked to many bereaved parents. And one of the things that I feel like is consistent across the board is everyone says, say their name, say their name. I don't want you to forget them, say their name. And, and to have someone like you said, have just a conversation with you and pretend nothing happened is the very last thing that any parent wants. Yeah.
00:41:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I get it because you don't want to say something wrong. The wrong thing. Yeah. Well, then easy. I'm sorry. I'm here for you. That's it. That's all you have to say. And I think that people are so scared of death. Uh-huh.
00:42:16
Speaker
And it's just such a, and I think we just haven't as a society, we just don't talk about the loss of a baby very often at all. And so when people talk about it, they just get so nervous and they just shut down and they become so awkward. And it doesn't need to be that way.
00:42:37
Speaker
um It is oh like your child should not go before you. But there are situations in life where that happens. And i i I have talked to many, many surrogates and intended parents that have faced loss that after hearing my story have flipped and have are now helping other people through their story, rather than it being such a heavy burden on their life, they're spinning it and saying, how can we take our story and our tragedy to lift others up? And I think that the more that we can
00:43:34
Speaker
Grief. It is important to grieve. Do not get me wrong. I have spent time grieving and there are days where I will just sit on the couch and cry. I still have those days. Of course. You have to. That is so important. But I also feel you have to celebrate. it is It's not just a baby that's gone. That is your child.
00:44:01
Speaker
yeah You know? yeah Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. So to celebrate London, one of the one of the things you did was create this beautiful nonprofit. London is the reason. And I think something that is so beautiful and unique about London is the reason, is the fact that you focus not only on parents, but you focus on the surrogate and parents who have lost a child through surrogacy, of course parents who have lost a child in general, but also that unique situation because like you said, it feels so guaranteed yeah until it's not. And yeah, and your surrogate was also experiencing loss and you had that connection and and just that whole situation. So how did all of that, how did you begin that?
00:44:59
Speaker
Well, i honestly, it was so crazy. It was, yeah I think, two weeks after London passed. And I was talking to a mom that was an intended parent that also faced loss. And I felt like, wow, this is the only time I have felt my healing beginning.
00:45:28
Speaker
Wow. And I talk to somebody that feels the exact pain that I feel. Yeah. not A therapist didn't work for me. um And it may work for other people. Sure. I don't want to degrade that because I do feel like they do help. But for me, it just didn't work because They weren't there. They didn't experience that loss that I felt. So when I talked to that mom who was basically finishing my sentences, I was like, wait a minute. Am I figuring out that my daughter has a purpose? am i This could be
00:46:23
Speaker
a realization yeah that is lost in the world today. And so I was like, okay, so if this mom is here, there has to be others. So let me go on to Google and search support for surrogates and intended parents through loss. Sure. For the first time in history, Google was gone. Nope. Nothing came up. Nothing.
00:46:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Well, I was like, I can't be ah like one of those people on Shark Tank that just came up with something because I always have those ideas. And then I go on and I'm like, oh, it's already been created. Oh, yeah, sure. Absolutely. It's going to be a millionaire. I came up with this idea. OK, nope, it's already been done. Nope, there's 20 other people who did it. but um And so I thought, OK.
00:47:23
Speaker
Wait a minute. There has to be. So I'm like, no, maybe we'll go on to Facebook. done No. And I'm like, we're going to go to Barnes and Noble. I jumped in the car. I go to Barnes and Noble. The options of books were like slim to none, maybe five. yeah So I was like, wait.
00:47:49
Speaker
this I still like in disbelief that I can't find support because I had so many books about infant loss but I had to skip like 75% of the book because it was about you're milking breasts and when you are still experiencing pain from birth and sure but hormones. And I was like, I didn't do any of that. right and right So I didn't even get to experience my daughter at all.
00:48:21
Speaker
And, ah but I'm dealing with loss. So I was like, this can't be right. This can't be the only book. So I went on to all of these support groups, major support groups across the country that deal with infant loss. And their response to me would say, we don't have support for surrogates and intended parents, but you're more than welcome to join our infant loss group. And I was like,
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, see that, that's not working. Um, because I don't, I can't relate to that. And so all of a sudden I was sitting there and I was like, London is the reason yeah that there is going to be support for surrogates and intended parents facing loss. And so she, London,
00:49:17
Speaker
has started the very first support in the world for surrogates and intended parents. like My mind was so blown and all but for the very first time in those two weeks, I felt inspired. I felt like, wait,
00:49:42
Speaker
Now I know her purpose. Now I know why she didn't even need to be here to show me her reasoning to be a baby, to have experience of life just living in the womb. And so I built my website Yes, I was so I was fired up I was like one minute reason I went on I bought the name I got the website Steve came in he was like Kristin can I show you what I did in the garage and I was like what do you mean he's like look what I've been working on and he built like this gym bar thing in his and he goes what what have you been doing and I said
00:50:36
Speaker
Oh, well I created a whole nonprofit and here's the website. And he was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. No, don't come see what I did in the gym.
00:50:48
Speaker
So he was like, wow. Okay. Oh my gosh. So, um, yes. So ah London is the reason.org is a nonprofit organization that offers support for those that have lost, whether it is a natural birth, we still identify with those, but also specifically to surrogates and intended parents. yeah So it is a communication-based support that deals with one-on-one conversations with myself, as well as other surrogates and intended parents in the group
00:51:31
Speaker
that you can communicate with and begin to heal that understand your pain, that understand the position that you're in um so that you can begin to heal and you can begin to celebrate. And I also offer healing boxes specifically two surrogates and intended parents. When we left the hospital, isn I wasn't given any information on loss. I wasn't given anything to say, here's where you go next. Sure. It was just like, figure it out, I guess. um And so I created boxes that hospitals, actually the hospital that Bexley, she's Bexley's on my mind today, a was born at, they keep boxes there specifically for loss. So that when that happens, they can say, here's a surrogate healing box. And here's an intended parent healing box.
00:52:43
Speaker
It is a written handwritten letter from myself and it talks about my journey and letting them know right from the very beginning, they are not alone because that's what I felt.
00:52:57
Speaker
sure millions and trillions of people in the world and this happened to me. my So to know that you're not dealing with this alone, like you have somebody on your side and it's you. There are books in there that I wish I would have had. They're not specific to surrogacy, but they're more like self-guidance books that I have really found helpful on each side. And then um I actually wrote a book, um and I plan to write more books. um But the book that I wrote is a children's book, and it's called Our Angel Gave Us
00:53:42
Speaker
our, an angel gave us our angel and, um, it is available on Amazon and it is, we'll definitely put the link in the show notes for sure. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's when all the proceeds go to London as the reason. And, um, it's a great book for children that are dealing with loss and to understand that even though baby is not home and living with you,
00:54:10
Speaker
baby is there in spirit and she's in heaven and watching over you. And so it's a beautiful ah book that is um all illustration and it's out of the the mindset of our dog Gunner.
00:54:28
Speaker
ah he's my little Scotty and so he narrates the whole book. And it's so it's a great book and that is also in um the healing boxes as well. And my goal for London is the reason is just to grow more surrogates and intended parents in the group as well as getting these boxes in every single hospital across the world. um So that in that unfortunate situation that
00:54:58
Speaker
immediately those parents and surrogates can feel comfort because I know that it's such an awkward ah situation because you're dealing with two separate families. Like I felt so bad for my surrogate. shes Like she has to deal with death for the rest of her life. She has to feel like she didn't complete her task as as a surrogate and um you know I felt like I affected her life forever.
00:55:35
Speaker
and I'm also dealing with loss that, so I felt like I was dealing with two separate losses. Absolutely. And she's dealing with two separate losses. And so it's a very complicated situation. And I feel like London has really opened the doors for so many ah doctors and therapists and agencies to say, here is how we help because this might happen. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it like you said, it's, ah it's, it might happen and it's a club that no one wants to be a part of. But when you all of a sudden find yourself in that situation to feel like there's others around you that can understand such a unique situation so of
00:56:32
Speaker
you know, a surrogate her goal is to have that that completion of seeing baby in parents arms and to not have that and then to deal with that physical loss but it's not my baby and then for you to you were supposed to come home with a baby. And like you said, you're driving with the empty car seat, but then you have this other relationship that you're thinking about. And it's just so much happening all at once. yeah And there're there's no books for it. There's no words for it there you know until you talk to someone who's been in it. yeah And for you to create London is the reason for London to
00:57:13
Speaker
continue on in this way is so beautiful and I know has helped so many and I mean that's when you have those days where you can't get off the couch to have that there I know has just got to be amazing. It it really is. It's it's yeah rewarding in a way um but it is to talk to these parents and surrogates is heartbreaking. To hear their story and to know their pain that
00:57:50
Speaker
is so clear to me that day is just, ah I want to forget it, but at the same time I don't because I don't want to forget holding London, you know? And so it's a very messed up thought. Like I want to be able to just say like, I didn't ever want that to happen, but at the same time, ah I wouldn't be here helping others, you know? So it's very hard. Well, it's all and, right? Like you can have all those feelings. it's our It's our instinct to not want, for lack of a better word, bad feelings, uncomfortable feelings. But like you said, it's, you can have all of those at once and and there's just, there's no wrong answer, right? Whenever someone's going through that. So
00:58:38
Speaker
when, I mean, you said Bexley, but her name of a timer too. So yes, spoiler alert, you are mom to, you know, two Earthside babies. yes How did you, for parents who just can't, they're in that stage of, I can't even think beyond, you know, breathing right now, drinking water right now. yeah When did you and Steve, how did you navigate and realize we're ready to grow our family further. And I think that's the number one, I think you just nailed it. Like when are you ready? yeah That's so hard. um There is not an answer to that. I think everyone is ready on their own time. But specifically to Steve and I, ah we
00:59:28
Speaker
Because we had to wait so long for infertility, ah we were on the older side. I was not in my 20s. I was not in my early 30s to say, let's wait like five years, three or four, five years to just let this kind of marinate and then let's hide again. um I was like, listen, if we don't have kids right now, I'm going to be so old.
01:00:01
Speaker
what's like going with
01:00:06
Speaker
I was on the older side, so I didn't want to wait too long. And honestly, all I felt like I was doing was waiting. And so for 14 years, I was just waiting. waiting yeah so I feel like so London was born in July. And I want to say in November, we started looking into starting another journey. So the doctors and the surrogacy agency were like, Kristen.
01:00:57
Speaker
you are still in a state of shock. like You really need to grieve this loss and make sure that you are ready because you don't want to go into another surrogacy journey and nitpick everything on the medical side, on the emotional side. like You need to walk into it just like you did your first journey.
01:01:25
Speaker
and I guess medically, I don't know how this came up, but in the transfer doctor told me, um it's usually a year and a half before we will let you start again. over And I said, listen, I know my body and my heart and Steve's heart more than anyone.
01:01:56
Speaker
And I can tell you I am ready. I can tell you that my healing will be better if I have life to look forward to again. And they were still hesitant. The surrogacy agency was very much on my side, um very much saying we under, we can hear you. We know that you are ready. Um, so I had to convince the doctor that I was ready, that I was not going to go into this next journey with hesitation. oh Now that's very like light spoken because you are, I felt like I was walking on eggshells the entire time. Yeah. It still, ooh, ooh, ooh.
01:02:54
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like you're still thinking like this could happen again. Well, you went from, you said your first journey, you never asked a medical question to all of a sudden, like you said, it's not guaranteed. And I've experienced it not being guaranteed. I mean, I'm sure you're holding your breath at every ultrasound, every NST, every, I mean,
01:03:19
Speaker
and how How did you and Steve navigate that of being able to i enjoy maybe isn't the right word, but being able to navigate a journey and not just make yourself go crazy? I really don't think there's a way to be honest. And I'm just flat out being honest. Yeah, no, for sure.
01:03:43
Speaker
ah you art um is
01:03:50
Speaker
it's It's ruined. I don't know how else to say it. You know what I mean? I didn't want to do a gender reveal. I didn't want to do a baby shower. Yeah, no. I didn't want to do anything because of the sheer fact that I was scared that this was going to happen again. I didn't tell anyone.
01:04:20
Speaker
that we were starting another journey besides my mom and dad. Even like aunts and uncles and grandparents, we didn't even tell them. No, no one. Because it was less people I would have had to remember who I told if something happened. Yeah. Isn't that sad that we have to think that way? So um I said to Steve,
01:04:49
Speaker
Life obviously is not guaranteed. isn Like we just went through this and it didn't happen. So what if we did another journey and we looked into adoption at the same time and he was like, I'm all game for it.
01:05:12
Speaker
Now, keep in mind, we lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on our, foot not only did we lose a child, but we lost all of that money too. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a huge. yeah ask like Did you get your money back? No, you don't get your money back because that's The baby was there and it's not the surrogate's fault. It's not the agency's fault. is' that It's just life. So you don't get your money back. But that's the that's the true logistical aspect of of this type of situation as well. Yeah, yeah absolutely. Yeah. so um But that's a lot of people's question is, did you get your money back?
01:05:59
Speaker
That's so interesting that people would say that. Yeah. Yeah. i' I've been asked that multiple times. So we took out a loan and we borrowed money from my parents and we were game in on both sides of the dream. I know nothing about adoption. Absolutely enough. I just think it's like the movies where you go in, you're like, that one looks cute. I'll take that one.
01:06:29
Speaker
yeah It's not like that. No, it's hard. yeah Yeah. It's its own roller coaster. It's its own yeah absolutely own thing. Now, if people ask me today, like, oh, we're looking into adoption. I literally say to them, is surrogacy an option?
01:06:51
Speaker
because I would rather someone go through surrogacy than adoption. My adoption um process was, ah beautiful it was beautiful, but to get there wasn't. And so, scammers and, I mean, there's this whole thing. I mean, I could talk for hours about adoption. But you're so right though, because I think you,
01:07:21
Speaker
ah I think you have a lot of people ask the question when people are, are, you know, well, why surrogacy? Why not adoption? Yeah. And, you know, and again, I know we've said this before, but adoption isn't a guarantee either. Nope. And it comes with so many, a different type of roller coaster and it's beautiful and it's amazing. It is. But it's not a, um,
01:07:53
Speaker
Easier alternative, I guess. They're both beautiful. I honestly think it's a lot harder to be honest. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're both to beautiful. good Just to put our journey of adoption in a little nutshell. Sure. We had already gone through the loss of London.
01:08:10
Speaker
and um while we were um starting our second surrogacy journey, which to get there was just the most miraculous God driven like situation. I'm going to explain that in a minute. But um we had to, we went through this adoption agency and we were matched with someone after being scammed from like two other women who weren't even pregnant. Oh, Christian. I'm telling you. A lot of people don't even know this. And, um you know, I just want a baby at this point. I'm like, I just want a baby. um And ah the,
01:08:56
Speaker
birth mom that we had matched with. I flew to Phoenix. I went to the anatomy scan. It was a girl. So I was just over the moon because we had all girl's stuff for London already here. And um we,
01:09:11
Speaker
I was so attached to her just because, you know, she was carrying a child that we were going to adopt and she, uh,
01:09:23
Speaker
It was a lot. She was a lot to deal with. when um She fired the agency, and that we didn't know what we were going to do with the deposit that we had already just put down. And she was matched with two other ah birth parents after us, after we decided that's just not ah where we... Oh, wow. I was to the point where I was like, if this is what it's like to be able to parent a child, I don't think I can do it.
01:09:53
Speaker
That's how crazy it got. um She ended up ah not placing her child after the birth parents were holding the baby for 48 hours in the hospital. That would have been us again, leaving empty abandoned. So to say that adoption is a beautiful thing, the birth mom for our daughter is the most special person ever. And she is a little sister to me. like I love every piece of her. um So there are women out there that just financially cannot support children that want to help people like Steve and I. But they're very hard to come by. They're very hard.
01:10:50
Speaker
and so
01:10:53
Speaker
That's adoption. Girl, I could just... Right. No, so not only are you navigating that, you're also simultaneously navigating a surrogacy journey. Now, remember I said this was COVID, during COVID. Oh my gosh. So now we've got a pandemic happening. We have a pandemic. All of a sudden,
01:11:17
Speaker
I call the agency and I'm like, we're ready. We're doing this second journey. And they said, well, the wait time now to find a surrogate is between six months and a year. Yeah. And I said, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, because the last, my first journey you, I had like six surrogates to choose from. Well, what do you mean? And she said, well, the pandemic, it's hard now to find surrogates.
01:11:54
Speaker
And I was like, I can't wait that long. And they were like, you know, obviously they were gonna be able to move me up somewhat, but not just cut everyone, nor did I want to cut people that had been waiting in line to find a surrogate because they want children too. I didn't feel like just because I lost a child, I should be priority. um So they were doing everything in their power to help. So we get a call from London's doctor.
01:12:24
Speaker
And she had been someone that was so emotionally affected, obviously, by the loss of London, but just knew our whole journey. Because I was, like I said, I was very invested in it, so I became very close with the doctor.
01:12:40
Speaker
and so she had called me and said, I don't know if you guys are ready to start another journey, but I have someone that I see who is a surrogate and she's already done two other journeys. So I don't even know if she would want to do one, but I just wanted to put it out there that if she does want to do another one, maybe I can connect you guys together. And I was like,
01:13:14
Speaker
Yes, that sounds great. Let's chat. and Let's chat. This was on a Friday. On Monday, I get a call from the doctor again before I had even had the chance to tell her, yes, we want to be able to do this. She said, you're not even going to believe what happened. I walked into my office and on the top,
01:13:43
Speaker
of my paperwork are the clearance papers for that specific surrogate to start a third journey. Oh wow. And I was like, wait a minute. So like she's asking if she can start and a ah new journey. Like she hasn't, she doesn't have a match yet. And she was like, that's right.
01:14:06
Speaker
yeah And I was like, this is all London. London has set this up specifically and knows that this person should be in my life right now. And boy, was she right. She was so right. This girl has changed my life. She was exactly what I needed.
01:14:37
Speaker
to have the guts to take on a couple that has experienced stillbirth. so You're already going through such an emotional journey with your intended parents to have to carry life.
01:14:55
Speaker
um But to be able to say like, if this happens again, I'm here for you. yeah But I am praying that this does not happen again. And I'm going to do everything in my power to not let this happen. um And so I already knew that this girl was it.
01:15:23
Speaker
So we made it work. We did all of the work that the surrogacy agencies do. all the way leading up to like all the legal papers and stuff. And they were like, wow, well, you guys have already done most of the work. And I was like- Oh my gosh, yeah. I could, I could open up a Surrey Sea Agency. And so we started a journey and we didn't
01:15:57
Speaker
get I just told the and but embryologist ah to pick the next best embryo. sure i we None of them were sex tested, so I didn't know if they were a boy or a girl. um And so we had the transfer in November, um and then After we were scanned three times from adoption, um we ah matched with a birth mom and in January of 22. So ah just to give you guys a timeline, ah London was born.
01:16:41
Speaker
January or July, July 21. And then um we matched for adoption and our baby girl was born January 21st, 22. So around seven months, um we flew to Nevada and I had a healthy baby girl in my arm.
01:17:10
Speaker
um I wanted to honor London without calling her London. You know what I mean? It's such a weird thing because you once you experience loss like that, like you want to not replace, but you want to like still have that like tangible piece of London, even though she's not here. It's a very weird feeling. um And so i when I picked out my daughter's name, I was like, how can I do this without? So I went on and I looked up cities. They call them boroughs in England. um And one of the boroughs in London is named Bexley.
01:17:58
Speaker
And so nextly is the name of our second daughter. And um she is now two and a half and she was meant to be in our family. He is everything. I just, she's everything. So the surrogacy journey took We were pregnant. yeah So we,
01:18:33
Speaker
after Bexley was born in January, seven months had gone by and out popped the most healthy baby boy. And his name is Ford and he is London's biological brother. And so they have very similar,
01:18:58
Speaker
attributes and um it was really special because something that was important to me through my healing is being able to go back to the hospital that London was born at, walking through those doors, but walking away with a baby that was alive.
01:19:26
Speaker
and I had panic attack after panic attack after anxiety attack, knowing that I was going to have to walk through those doors again and be in that atmosphere where I was a year ago. And when I did and when I walked past London's room, um like my legs went numb.
01:19:53
Speaker
like i when i I was there to celebrate a new life and also to know that London was the reason that we were there again. And um everybody had, it was the coolest experience. I wish everyone listening could have been there because it was so cool. All of the nurses and doctors and everyone in the hospital
01:20:25
Speaker
That's a stretch everyone on the labor and delivery floor sure Everyone in the hospital that has a huge hospital um was wearing their London is the reason oh so When we got to welcome in baby Ford Everyone knew about London. Everyone was there. Everyone shifted their schedule so that if they were there to deliver London, they were there for Ford. So we had the same nurses, the same doctor, the same team that was there that was so affected by the loss of London, but was welcoming in Ford.
01:21:14
Speaker
And you could just feel like the presence in the air and you could feel the atmosphere just like shift into this like heavenly feeling of like ah London is so here. She is so present. And like she was the reason that everybody was able to come together again and celebrate life. It was unbelievable. So it's beautiful. Three of my kids are seven months apart.
01:21:45
Speaker
ah you You got your twins, basically. I know. And that's that's the crazy thing is we were going to meet one and done with London. Yeah. And now I cannot picture my life without these two. Yeah. London, I never would have met these two had it not been for London. And yeah it's, they are my life. All three of my babies. And I just,
01:22:16
Speaker
She's the reason for so many amazing things in my life. And that absolutely is the number one thing is my two babies right now. and well Oh, that's so beautiful. That's so, so beautiful that out of such tragedy and loss, there is this huge celebration and a continued, not only in your own life, but others are so, um, get to be graced with London. Um, and, and all that she is able to give, um,
01:22:53
Speaker
To others who are experiencing all of that. That is so beautiful. Is there anything? Because you've you've given kind of some of these I guess tips, you know and advice coming from the seat that you sit in. Is there anything that you would want to specifically say to maybe as an intended parent who experienced this loss, what you would want to say to a surrogate who is experiencing that type of unique loss?
01:23:26
Speaker
um
01:23:28
Speaker
you You can't blame yourself. And I say that with information that I have now that I will not share. um and And so i I say that with a grain of salt, but i I have talked to so many surrogates that their life has been so altered by the death of um a child that they were carrying.
01:24:08
Speaker
and I just want them to know that like your position is already so selfless. You are so giving up your body to carry someone else's child. And the fact that someone like myself that can never have children, they are the reason why we are able to be parents. And so if situations occur like this, you just can't blame yourself. You have to be able to say, this happened, but there is a reason. And there's a reason
01:24:59
Speaker
that may never be understood. And I think that that's also important to know is you may not ever, someone might say, well, you know, Kristen got this beautiful message given from London that she should start a nonprofit. I'm not saying that everyone should take their loss and turn it into this big monstrosity because that be what your child wants. They just might want to be celebrated in a more silent way. And that is so acceptable. But I also feel like as a surrogate, if you are facing loss, I think it's important to also speak and and tell your story. um Obviously, keep your privacy from your intended parent um yeah and ask them and make sure that it's OK that you share your story. but
01:25:56
Speaker
I think that it's important to to to talk and to to know that what you did was a beautiful thing. You gave your intended family a child, whether they are in heaven or they are on earth. You still gave them a child. And they are still at one point in their life going to be able to celebrate that.
01:26:22
Speaker
um And so I think it's important to remember that you still gave them something, whether you think that you failed or not. I don't think that the word failure should be in your vocabulary as a surrogate because had it not been for my surrogate that offered to carry London,
01:26:46
Speaker
I wouldn't be here. And you have to look at it that way. like yeah she didn't She wasn't able to produce a baby here on earth for me, but she was able to produce something that I can never imagine. you know I never could have imagined this and i wouldn't I wouldn't trade it. um So I think it's just important for them to remember that you know, to not let it affect your whole life. And if you can, like I did, I went and I conquered and I made sure that like, I i filled that void. There was a surrogate that I um was talking to that I met through London is the reason. And she,
01:27:36
Speaker
was so down, down, down, down. And I um was able to communicate with her and she is now going through another journey. And it's the most beautiful thing. And it took her a while to get there, to say like, oh I don't know if emotionally I can, what if I can't deliver again? What if I can't, you know,
01:28:02
Speaker
But that's just all the what ifs. That's the doctor's question too. that's the That's everyone's question. So it's not specifically just for you. Like that's an all around type of feeling. And yeah even with natural birth, it's not a guarantee. So, you know, I just think that it's important to keep your head high and know that you can't take that blame.
01:28:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and again, thank goodness now for resources like London is the reason where you can have those conversations with other surrogates and intended parents who have gone through that, that situation. Oh my goodness. Well, Kristen, I've taken up so much of your time, but I want to ask you one last question. Um, and it's a fun one. Um, for anyone who knows me, they know I have a very codependent relationship with coffee.
01:28:54
Speaker
Um, and so, yes. And so I always love to ask, what was the thing that filled your cup this morning? Literally or figuratively, what was the thing that filled your cup? Okay. So literally I went to certain. Yes. I got the shaken espresso. No classic. Two pumps of mocha with oat milk. Look at you go.
01:29:23
Speaker
I recommend it. She's got it. Okay. Excellent. We're gonna keep that stored. However, they gave me a white straw. Oh, oops. It's throwing me off because I need the green straw. We need the green straw. Right. we're Right. We're used to certain things.
01:29:41
Speaker
Okay. And then also, can I tell you this quick story one time? Yes. I always tip when I go to Starbucks. Of course. So the one time I didn't tip because I was like, uh, I don't know if the service was like great. I got a straw. It was karma. I got a straw and it had, it was like closed. Like they I couldn't even use the straw.
01:30:12
Speaker
They knew. They will meet the non-tipping straw.
01:30:18
Speaker
Okay. So despite the white straw though, it was a good drink. It's fabulous. and Fantastic. It was so good. um But on an emotional side, I just, I think it's that I got to talk about London. Yeah. You know? Yeah. and it's It's such a fun, it's crazy to say now, everyone listening, to say that it is a good, happy experience for me to talk about London, because to think about that,
01:30:52
Speaker
when we found out that we lost her is I never would have guessed. You could tell me a million times, Kristen, you're gonna be able to like smile about her. You're gonna be able to talk about her. You're gonna be, and I would look at you in the face and say, you are joking. yeah No. And now look, so everyone can get there. It's just yeah on your own timing. So I think that that's definitely what filled my cup today is that London is here. She's here with us right now. And it's just such a beautiful um thing to have. And she what's she's what motivates me just as much as coffee. So there you go. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, Kristin, again,
01:31:39
Speaker
so grateful for you and your time. And London is the reason dot.org. It will be in the show notes. Your beautiful children's book will also be there. And um I am just, I'm so grateful that um you have continued to um just, that that you've created this beautiful thing from London and can be a resource to those who are experiencing this type of loss. So thank you and thank you to London. um And I'm just so grateful. Well, thank you so much for having me and allowing you to speak your voice to so that we can help others. And I think that that's the main thing is that the more that we vocalize our loss, the more that we can help others. Absolutely. Absolutely.
01:32:30
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of me, you, and who. We appreciate your time and hope you enjoyed our discussion today.
01:32:44
Speaker
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01:33:14
Speaker
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01:33:37
Speaker
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