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226: The Politics of Child Sexual Abuse - Kristi McVee
79 Plays6 months ago
Before we start this episode talks about a topic that may be upsetting and affect some listeners so please bear that in mind before you tune in
Kristi McVee is a passionate advocate for child safety and the prevention of child sexual abuse, dedicating over a decade of her life to this critical cause through her career as a police officer, detective and specialist child interviewer. As the author of "Operation KidSafe - A Detective's Guide to Child Abuse Prevention," Kristi has empowered countless parents and caregivers with the knowledge and practical strategies needed to protect children from sexual abuse and harm. With a deep commitment to safeguarding the well-being of children, Kristi has emerged as a recognized authority in the field of child protection. Her journey began with a personal mission to create a safer world for kids, and it has evolved into a significant influence on the lives of families and communities.
We discuss:
1. What is the biggest myth around child safety and abuse in your experience and why?
2. Stats how that 1 in 3 girls, 1 in 5 boys and 28.5% of all Australian adults have been a victim of child sexual abuse with 90% abused by someone known to them and 47% by a direct familial relative such as a male parent, caregiver, sibling or relative. 45% of all CSA is by another child (source www.acms.au) – are we making any dent in this?
3. It seems in 2024 child abuse was something rarely talked about until the past decade or two, a taboo almost like domestic violence in homes. Are the numbers on child sexual abuse higher because they are more accurately and readily reported or something else?
4. How do you start educating parents and carers on this very difficult topic of child sexual abuse?
5. What role can we play in the rise of online grooming on our kids’ devices and even say online games?
6. Takeaway: What is your final message on The Politics of Child Sexual Abuse?
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more. Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them
Nonpartisan Approach
00:00:27
Speaker
yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program.
Sensitive Topics: Child Safety
00:00:38
Speaker
Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
00:00:46
Speaker
Before we start this episode, it talks about a topic that may be upsetting and affect some listeners, so please bear that in mind before you tune in.
Kristie McPhee's Advocacy
00:00:53
Speaker
Kristie McPhee is a passionate advocate for child safety and the prevention of child sexual abuse, so dedicating over a decade of her life to this critical cause through her career as a police officer, detective and specialist child interviewer. As the author of Operation Kids Safe, a detective's guide to child abuse prevention, Christy has empowered countless parents and caregivers with the knowledge and practical strategies needed to protect children from sexual abuse and harm. With a deep commitment to safeguarding the wellbeing of children, Christy has emerged as a recognised authority in the field of child protection. Her journey began with a personal mission to create a safer world for kids and it has evolved into a significant influence on the lives of families and communities.
00:01:35
Speaker
She is a sought after keynote speaker, captivating audiences at child safety events and parenting conferences with her expertise and engaging delivery.
Endorsement of Zencastr
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Speaker
And I warmly welcome you to the politics of everything. Thank you so much. That was beautiful.
00:01:51
Speaker
Podcasting remotely can be challenging, but it doesn't have to be. Since day one of the politics of everything, I have relied on Zincasters all in one solution to make the process quick and painless, the way it should be for those of us who just love great content and want to get our ideas out into the world. If you know me, I'm obsessed with quality in terms of my guests, my sound, and everything about my show has to be great the first time. I'm Time Paul. It's so easy to use Zencastr. I'm not tech savvy and you don't need to be either. There's nothing to download. Just click on the link and off we go. Zencastr is all about making your podcasting experience easy and with everything from local recording to automated post-productions now in their toolkit,
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You don't have to leave your browser to get that episode done and done fast. I have a special offer for you and I hopefully you can experience what I have with Zencaster. Go to zencaster dot.com forward slash pricing and use my VIP code, the politics of everything, all lowercase in one word. to get 30% off your first three months of Zcaster Professional. How good is that? I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. i Okay.
Kristie's Career Journey
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's a big topic and that's why we have that warning at the beginning, but I think it's an important one. And on this program, we don't, we don't shy away from that. I just wanted to ask you, did you always wanted to be a police officer as a kid or did you have a different dream?
00:03:19
Speaker
No, I didn't. I didn't even, it wasn't even on my radar into until I was a parent. so Oh, how interesting. So early on, what did you think you might do? Like when you're at school, you know, you go to the careers advisor and they go, oh, you know, you'd be good at this or, you know, have those dreams that you think you might pursue. I had a really interesting childhood. So I had, I had horses. So at one stage I thought I'd be a veterinarian. I had like aspirations of, you know, maybe going into that sort of field, but then I just realized that I didn't like school that much. So I never actually, I didn't actually finish school. So funny enough. And then, yeah. And then I went into administration and.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. that's And here I am. It's amazing. I love joining the dots and I think that's that's good for people just to get a sense of where you've come to up to this point
Myths about Child Abuse
00:04:11
Speaker
as well. So getting into the topic today, what do you think, and there's probably loads of them, but what do you think is the biggest myth around child safety and abuse in your experience? and And why is that still something that's so prevalent in terms of the myth itself? The biggest myth is that it doesn't happen to your child or your family and that It's a stranger that will abuse your child when it's actually 90% of all child sexual abuse is by someone known to the child, either through family, which is about 50%, or someone, a close relative, neighbor, friend, teacher, et cetera.
00:04:47
Speaker
And that's interesting because as you're saying that, and I am a parent of of two two boys who are age 11 and 15, and I grew up in the 80s with stranger danger and all that sort of stuff as being kind of, you know, we need to know where you are, but if you were someone we know that's fine.
Impact and Prevalence of Child Abuse
00:05:02
Speaker
But and I feel like I know that the chances are higher that it's likely to be someone in our immediate circle or someone who's befriended the kids or a person of authority, like a sporting coach or a teacher that might in fact potentially groom them per se. So it's interesting that that myth has pervaded because I feel like I think of it differently these days to that stranger danger myth. Yeah, it's it's generally like what we do here is or what people always used to say to me when I was a detective is that oh I just didn't think it would happen to my child. um yeah Because it's probably the worst thing you can possibly imagine other than obviously the death of your child. Like this is pretty much, you know, every parent's nightmare. Yes, very much so. And
00:05:44
Speaker
Well, it's it's just it just starts. It's a huge trauma to the family and it is a huge thing to have to navigate through and and hopefully help heal. You know, I've i've spoken to lots of survivors over the years and, you know, it it like leaves a lasting toll and it leaves a lasting impression on their lives. So it it can change the whole trajectory of a person or a child's life. So Yeah, I just wish that more parents took this seriously and more people took this topic seriously. I think because it is such a really scary and really distasteful topic, you know, people don't want to hear about this stuff sitting around a breakfast table or, you know, at a dinner table. But if we gave survivors and and victim survivors more of a chance to share their stories, we would probably have a lot more patient's compassion time for what
00:06:43
Speaker
ah for this subject. Absolutely. And look, the stats are pretty full on. I mean, I'm obviously prepared for today um and I just wanted to know, you know, whether things had had moved in any way, but statistics show that one in three girls and one in five boys and almost 30% of all Australian adults have been a victim of child sexual abuse. And as you mentioned, 90% are abused by someone known to them and almost 50% by a direct familial relative such as a parent, a caregiver, a sibling or relative. And of course, there's so also the other taboo of, you know, abuse by another child to another child or another minor. These statistics are very ah alarming. It must seem like it's like happening everywhere, but maybe people are not sort of shining as much a light on it because it is distasteful. What what do you say to that? ah if we don't If we don't look at right in the face of it and if we don't talk about it and
00:07:38
Speaker
That's part of why I do what I do now after leaving the police. You know, we have to have these conversations and you know, those statistics are fresh. They're from 2023 and it's the Australian child maltreatment study was the one who, you know, trying to lie on those current statistics. But even up until 10 years ago, 12 years ago, it was one in three and one in seven boys, but it's now come down to one in five. And we now have so much more, more data, which is great, but it's not obviously preventing child sexual abuse, knowing this. Exactly. Knowing is one thing. The prevention is ist probably the missing piece. And it look, it does seem like, you know, we're now in 2024, child abuse was something I must admit was really talked about when I was growing up. And, you know, in even in even in mainstream media, it sort of reminds me a little bit of like how
00:08:33
Speaker
And you were obviously in the police force, you know, domestic violence, we used to, the colloquialism was, oh, it's just a domestic, you know, when, you know, when a wife or someone else was being abused in their own home.
Increase in Reporting and Challenges
00:08:45
Speaker
Are these numbers on child sexual abuse perhaps higher than we, than those, even those shocking figures, because it's, you know, it isn't more reported now, or is it just, is it not going away? Like, is it, what can we, what can we sort of take from this so that we understand where we are in 2024? I often think about this stuff because when I first started in the police, you know, and obviously didn't have a ah clue growing up, you know, not talking about it like yourself, i I used to think, is it getting worse or is it being more reported? I think it's always been bad, but we're now talking about it. And there is ah there is a few things that are contributing to the the worsening of this
00:09:30
Speaker
is that we now have easier, accessible pornography. And that is actually contributing to the harm and abuse of children, both by peers and by adults. So we we, once upon a time, and without going too much into too much detail about, you know, the offender behaviors, we, you know, an offender would have to go past, get through a lot of like, they'd have to get through a lot of resistance. So for instance, We know that it's wrong to abuse children, so therefore, you know you have to get past that resistance to go then and harm a child. But now, with the with online child exploitation material that's easily accessible on the internet, that restriction or that... It's almost like... and luck it like it was it's sort of I don't know if taboo is probably not quite the right word, but it feels like... It's been normalized. Yeah, exactly. and And it's been mainstreamed, I suppose, is another way to think about it.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah. And um one of this one of the recent studies showed that one in six Australian men would sexually abuse a child if if no one ever found out, and child or young person. So not necessarily talking about children under the
Educating Children on Safety
00:10:44
Speaker
age of, you know, under pubescent, but yeah child or young person, if no one was to find out one in six Australian men would sexually abuse a child. So this is a very recent study that came out and It's very scary to think that that is the opinion of people, you know, adults. And they're willing to share that in a survey. Even if it's anonymous, the idea that that yeah that's even in their brains at that at that level is is quite quite disturbing. In the work you do, obviously a lot of it is around education.
00:11:17
Speaker
around, you know, the for the parents and the carers in young people's lives. It's a very difficult topic. Where do you start with it? Because I think there's that fine line and I'm thinking of, you know, anything that's kind of, like you say, distasteful or grim. Like, you don't just want to do shocking, extreme stories, because I think sometimes people go, well, that would never happen to us. You know, we're not in a cult. We don't do this. We're not like that. Our family's not like that. There's a lot of kind of otherness that comes into this so that happens to others. So how do you educate parents without just doing the shock stuff and then having them perhaps feel like that was terrible, but that won't happen to us still. Yeah, so I talk about safe and unsafe behaviours by adults and I talk about appropriate and inappropriate behaviours. So in order for us to identify what is safe and unsafe, we need to think about what we believe is a safe adult and how they have behave.
00:12:14
Speaker
You know, for instance, a safe adult would never ask a child to obviously touch them or to see their private parts. A safe adult doesn't talk behind closed doors with a child in a room on their own. A safe adult, and I'm talking about any safe adult, you know, I'm not talking about, you know, say, teach a child relationship. And a safe adult believes children. you know, a safe adult is someone who is going to, if a child says no, they're going to respect that no and respect that boundary and not push past it. So, you know, there's certain, you know, language that I like to use to explain what's a safe adult and what's ah an unsafe adult and what's an inappropriate behavior and what's an appropriate behavior. For instance, I don't believe that it's appropriate for adults to be friends with kids on social media. So, you know, when I talk to young people, I'm like,
00:13:07
Speaker
Do you think it's appropriate for for adults to be your friends on social media and why? And then we go into that. you know So I think if we just call out or just start thinking about safety and what is safe and unsafe when it comes to adults and and child protection, and then what is appropriate and inappropriate behaviors, then we can sort of tackle it a little bit softer. Yes. And I think that that kind of makes sense. And then in that process, I mean, do you find it takes more than one kind of engagement with parents and carers? Like, how do you keep the message going? Because I think sometimes these things kind of feel like, OK, I paid attention to that. But in the day to day to sort of low on their radar, if that makes sense. Yeah. So part of part of child safety or child abuse prevention is a
00:13:59
Speaker
skill set that we teach kids from really early on called protective behaviors and body safety. So in that skill set, we talk about everyone has the right to feel safe at all
Online Safety Strategies for Parents
00:14:09
Speaker
times. And you can talk with someone about anything. So first of all, we need to identify, well, when I feel safe, how do I feel in my body? And when I feel unsafe, how do I feel on my body? And us as adults will talk about that as our intuition, you know, that gut feeling that we feel. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think as a parent, that does that does kick in sometimes, you know, or as a human, really, like just as you get older, you have that gut sense when something's not quite right or you feel uneasy in the company of something or someone. And we teach that to kids so that they can identify it and then they can tell someone when they don't feel safe.
00:14:48
Speaker
So, and we also teach kids who are on their safety team and a child should always choose their own safety team because unfortunately, you know, if we're picking their safety team for them and saying, oh, well, you know, dad, Nana and and uncle are all a part of your safety team. We don't know, you know, if that child feels safe with that person or if something's happening. So it's better if a child chooses a safety team and then they can they know that they've got these people and when they feel unsafe, they can go to them. And that's how we teach children. But think about it, if we are an adult and we're not feeling safe or we have those warning signs go off, because that's what they are. They're early warning signs that something isn't right and you don't feel great about it, and we listen to that intuition, then we would have a greater possibility of protecting children.
00:15:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Obviously, online grooming and you mentioned pornography on our kids devices is is is everywhere. And I know i know i and as a so as a mother of boys, I mean, I remember when both kids were in primary school, I've got one in year six and one in year 10 now. reading that statistic by you seven, like 90% of boys have all seen pornography, whether you like it or not, because you know, friends have different access levels. And you know, we've got child restrictions on our devices and access, but you know, they go to people's homes or they're like, see, with friends on a bus, and they've got, you know, no restrictions on their phone, for example.
00:16:09
Speaker
What role can we play in monitoring that? And I'm thinking this now and I'm kind of personalizing it because as kids get older, obviously you don't have the same degree of control over them and and you they're not with you as much and you don't have access to the devices all the time. Even online games, I'm thinking things like Roblox, which my kids never play, people were saying that's like a grooming center. I'm like, what is going on? Yeah, well, scarily Roblox has like 50 million users a day and 50% of those are over the age of 18. So when you're combining 50% of kids under the age of 18 and 50% over the age of 18. That's not ideal. It's not ideal. But um okay, so with regards to devices online grooming, etc.
00:16:54
Speaker
we really need to have conversations and we need to have open dialogue with our young people. I mean, going back to those protective behaviours lessons, if we start having really good conversations around safety, inappropriate, appropriate behaviours from a very young age, and it doesn't, it's not scary when you start it and you're talking about it as in, oh well, it's my body's my body and it's, ah you know, no one's allowed to touch my body, no one's allowed to touch your body, no one's allowed to look at our private parts, And then you're moving on to, you know, online safety, you know, listening to your warning signs and you're having those conversations open and honestly from a very young age. And then when they get to that age where they're starting to, you know, have those conversations with strangers and they've got people that or young, you know, other peers that might ask them for a nude or something like that. Then we've talked, we've already talked and had really good conversations, which means that our children are
00:17:51
Speaker
much more likely to come to us and talk to us about stuff that's making them feel scared, unsafe, or just doesn't make them feel good. And with regards to online safety, you're done everything right by having child safe, having something on their devices, locking it down. Remember, when we give our child a device, they're borrowing it. We're the owners of that device. They're borrowing that device So we have ultimate control over our head. And I do remind my kids of that, particularly when they've done something, this is off topic, that I'm like, no, you're not listening. We've got to go now because they are very distracting and the dopamine fix is kind of next level, I think, for that generation. Yeah, you do. And my daughter's 16, just about to 10, 16. So I've been through it all with her. And it's different to how we grew up.
00:18:40
Speaker
So we've just got to have a different type of conversation. And some of that's just about, you know, what would you do if someone did this or how would you, you know, has any of your friends ever been asked for a nude or has shit had a nude shared or has anyone asked for an inappropriate photo or a photo of your privates, you know, for little kids or, you know, has any of your friends always using friends is a good way to talk, but really open communication, supervision, you know oversight, checking in on them, asking them what's going on. You know you know your child the best. If there's something going on, they're withdrawing, they're maybe on social media more than they should be because all of a sudden something's happened. They're anxious, depressed, panicking, you know checking in with your kid and just making sure. Because unfortunately in this day and age, we're all very distracted and we need to ensure that we're not neglecting their emotional needs just because they're behind a device.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. So when we come when it comes to things like open communication, I feel like, you know, as kids get older, that that dialogue needs to change because, you know, little kids could be more open to that conversation and and sort of, you know, their parent is they sort of in awe of their parents. us but As our kids get older and they're teenagers, there's a bit of a cringe factor when their parents start talking about things like sex and, you know, asking them, you know, have you been sending nudes or has anyone sent you a nude? How do we actually make sure that we're sort of proactive in that because we've got to keep checking in with them without perhaps alienating them? I guess is the question I'm like i'm really asking. o Well, I've talked to lots of young people and teenagers. I was a specialist child interior for nine years. And so I talked about this all the time. So the way we ask is really important. It's again, like I mentioned earlier,
00:20:30
Speaker
Asking in relation to their friends is sometimes one of the ways. It's like going through the side door instead of the front door. So saying, you know, have any of your friends ever yeah had experience with XYZ? You know, when it comes to online gaming and and being online, Like sitting on the couch with them and just like asking them to show you or you know Can you play with that game with them because you know spending five ten minutes doing something or twenty minutes doing something? That's important to them will help them and we'll start the conversation around stuff, you know whilst you're gaming with them You could be saying hey, has anyone ever done this XYZ? Sitting in the car if it's just you and you know If you've got multiple children obviously try not to have conversations like this with all of them in the car
00:21:16
Speaker
But you know if you've if you've got one child in the car going to a sporting event or whatever, you know just saying, hey, I saw this on the radio, I saw this on the news, you know has anything like that happened to one of your friends? Or have you ever had that happen to you? you know using Using what the tools around you, you know social media, TikTok, Instagram, you know what you see on the news, what you hear on the radio, you know having conversations like that, using a resource like that really starts to make it not about them per se, but what's happening in their world.
Talking Safety with Teenagers
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah. No, I like that. And I think I can sit, I know for my, my kids, both of them actually, both boys, it, you know, in the car when there's no eye contact, they'll often tell me everything. Like, yeah. Yeah. When you're sitting next to them somewhere, even like on the couch.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's a perfect place. where It's not confrontation. We're going, we're having a serious chat now. That just tends to then go, oh my goodness, am I in trouble? And they close down a little bit, you know what I mean? you get I mean, the car's the best place because they can't escape. That's true. There is the lock door. But you know, the other place that I like to have conversations, you know, serious conversations is when And, you know, not all teenagers are okay with it, but, you know, laying down in bed just before they're about to go to sleep when, you know, you go in there to say, hey, time to switch off. Let's put your phone away. Let's put everything away. And you lay down and you just go, you know, like the lights are off. It's dark in their room. It's kind of nice to have that wind down time with your kids.
00:22:45
Speaker
Absolutely. Changing Tack, what is your number one business tool or hack? And it can't be your smartphone, unfortunately, because everyone has one of those. And I guess how's that kind of helping you either in your business or your life? And it could be an app or it could be some other little device which you just, you know, you're loving at the moment. hu um It's an interesting one. Yeah, smartphones are really helpful. But I would say my favorite app at the moment is Canva. You are the third person to say that. I might have to ban smartphones and cameramber camera from the screen. Well, how about my second favourite? Yeah, go for that. I'll put you on the spot now. Yeah. um ah My second favourite and one that I'm using a lot of is my Google Calendar, because obviously I could i don't know. Does anyone have an actual paper calendar anymore? No, I think I stopped buying them probably about four years ago. You know, you used to buy one every year and have it hanging up in or a big chart.
00:23:40
Speaker
on your fridge or whatever it is with all the kids activities and stuff. Now we all just send each other meeting invites. That's how that on our phones. We know where we need to be when, cause we are like a lot of people very busy. Yeah, everyone is. and And you can have each have a different color. Like if, if my Google calendar imploded, I wouldn't know what I'm doing. You wouldn't know you need to be here to do this. Absolutely. No, I appreciate that. Your biggest life lesson to date and why, what's it taught you? Well, I don't, I haven't really delved into this yet,
Coping with PTSD and Finding Joy
00:24:13
Speaker
but I got PTSD from my time in the police. So I was in the police for 10 years. And when you have a severe, you know, high stress, high anxiety and everything going on, one of the biggest life lessons I learned is that everything that there, there is a lot at the end of the tunnel, you know, all you have to do is get through today and tomorrow will be okay. Because sometimes when you're going through those really,
00:24:37
Speaker
extremely highly charged mental health um moments. And you're not sure what yeah that whether you can survive through it because unfortunately depression, anxiety, ah they were they've been a very big part of my life since leaving the police. But you know just knowing that tomorrow, there there is just waiting for tomorrow and it will be better tomorrow and eventually the tomorrow's get better and you you you come out the other side of it and that's pretty deep. but You know, I've unfortunately been to a lot of cases where people haven't survived those those moments. And so and just waiting for the next moment and you'll be okay. And I think our young people need reminding of that as well because
00:25:23
Speaker
in the moment our young people think that it's they're never gonna survive what they're going through. So, yes you know, just- Perspective is kind of important, I think, in those sorts of situations. Yeah, totally. So yeah, just reminding everyone that, you know, tomorrow will be a better day. Excellent. I like that. How do you define success these days? You've obviously, um you know, you're running your own own stuff now, but in your life, I imagine success has evolved over time. And what makes success kind of resonate for you these days? um Success for me now, it's so different to what it was, but it's definitely things that make me light up, give me joy, make me excited. you know Before it was you know getting to that next career goal or that next thing, that next house you wanted to buy or that next that that money you wanted to save, but now it's all about what brings me joy because that's really all that life's about.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And what does bring you joy? Do you have any hobbies or things that you just love doing? Oh, sadly, yes. My Darshan brings me so much joy joy. He's only about to turn one year old. ah Walking on the beach and swimming, swimming in the ocean, ah yeah it got it's definitely one of those things that clears your mind, clears your breath. clears anything that's going on. You cannot be sad when you're in the ocean. Absolutely.
Vigilance in Child Abuse Prevention
00:26:48
Speaker
And to wrap up our conversation today, which obviously has dealt with a very challenging topic for for many and and of course yourself having you know worked in this sector for so long, what would be your final takeaway message for anyone listening on the politics of child sexual abuse? Please, please go become more aware of what the statistics are, what to look look out for.
00:27:08
Speaker
you know, there's red flags and warning signs. Just please spin. ah It's a really difficult topic and I understand that, but please be aware that if you've got young children in your family, they need you to take that time and to just learn a little bit more about it. And once you know something like that, you can't unknow it. So it's not going to disappear out of your brain. And it's something that your kids or the kids around you need you to know. Yeah, I really appreciate your time. And of course, anyone listening can contact you through some details on the show notes. If this episode has raised issues for you when you are in Australia, Lifeline is 131114. Thank you so much for your time. Until next time, please take care. Thanks so much for listening today.
00:27:52
Speaker
If you've enjoyed the politics of everything, I thrive on your feedback, so please add a short review and share the podcast with your network through Apple, Spotify and all the usual suspects. I'm always on the hunt for new and diverse guests, so if you or someone you know has a fresh idea, you're busting to get out there, please email me at amber at amberdains.com and my crew will get back to you very soon.