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234: The Politics of Ethical Entrepreneurship - Amanda Rose
88 Plays4 months ago
Amanda Rose was an early guest on this show (in fact ep 95 The Politics of Ambition) and that was some years ago. Since then, much has evolved for her and those she works with and how to create impact in business communities.
Today Amanda Rose (#BossLady) is an advocate for women in business, a media commentator, keynote speaker and an entrepreneur. Appearing weekly on Sunrise and SkyNews and contributing regularly to the Australian Financial Review, the Daily Telegraph and SmartCompany, Amanda applies compassionate critical thinking to disseminate complex issues affecting everyday Australians.
Amanda is the Founder and CEO of Entrepreneurial & Small Business Women Australia (ESBWA) and the Founder and CEO of Western Sydney Women. She founded and sold Business Women Media, the first platform of its kind to advocate for small business women. As a mentor and advisor to women in executive roles and SMEs, Amanda is known for her strategic, practical approach to leadership and business.
Hear this time from Amanda on:
1. One definition I saw was that ethical entrepreneurship is beyond the bottom line, and aims to make a positive impact on the world. By embracing say more sustainable practices, entrepreneurs can contribute to environmental preservation and resource conservation. How would you describe ethical entrepreneurship and why is that something you are keen to unpack further?
2. When do ethics get challenged for entrepreneurs and is making money usually the root cause? View and examples (up to 2) please.
3. Some successful leaders dismiss this emphasis on business ethics as a form of virtue signalling – what would you say to this?
4. How can ethics be seen more than externally espoused vision or mission statement? Doing good and looking good are not always the same thing in business.
5. Your favourite ethical entrepreneur and why?
6. Current business tool or app etc that you’re enjoying (not a smartphone) and what can it do that helps you?
7. Takeaway: What is your final message for us on The Politics of Ethical Entrepreneurship?
Connect further:
Website: https://www.amandarose.com.au
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandarosemedia/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theamandarose/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amandarosebosslady
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Politics of Everything'
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more. Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program. Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
Amanda Rose's Journey and Advocacy for Women
00:00:45
Speaker
Amanda Rose was an early guest on this show. In fact, episode 95, The Politics of Ambition, and that was some six years ago. Since then, much has evolved for her and those that she works with and how she operates to create impact in business communities. Today, Amanda is an advocate for women in business, a media commentator, keynote speaker, and an entrepreneur. She appears regularly on programs such as Sunrise and Sky News, contributes through columns in the AFR, the Daily Telegraph and Smart Company. And she applies compassionate, critical thinking to disseminate complex issues affecting everyday Australians. Because she's not busy enough doing that, she's also the founder and CEO of Entrepreneur Muriel and Small Business Women Australia and the founder and CEO of Western Sydney Women. She founded and sold business women media, the first platform of its kind to advocate for small business women.
00:01:33
Speaker
As a mentor and advisor to women and executives and roles and small businesses, Amanda was known for her strategic practical approach to leadership and business. She works with a whole bunch of different clients, including CPA Australia, UTS, ANZ Deloitte, and has worked in with corporates as well. She's described as the glue connecting communities, government and business on critical infrastructure and social impact initiatives, and I totally agree with that. She's a external committee member for Western City University's Creative Leadership degree and a small business mentor for the Australian Government's Boosting Female Founders Initiative. She has a host of qualifications and she's currently studying a Master's of Business Law at Sydney University. So today we're chatting about ethical entrepreneurship and I warmly welcome Amanda back to the politics of everything. Hello.
00:02:21
Speaker
Podcasting remotely can be challenging, but it doesn't have
Amber's Positive Experience with Zencastr
00:02:24
Speaker
to be. Since day one of the politics of everything, I have relied on Zincasters all in one solution to make the process quick and painless, the way it should be for those of us who just love great content and want to get our ideas out into the world. If you know me, I'm obsessed with quality in terms of my guests, my sound, and everything about my show has to be great the first time. I'm Time Pool. It's so easy to use Zencaster. I'm not tech savvy and you don't need to be either. There's nothing to download. Just click on the link and off we go. Zencaster is all about making your podcasting experience easy and with everything from local recording to automatic post-productions now in their toolkit, you don't have to leave your browser to get that episode done and done fast.
00:03:07
Speaker
I have a special offer for you and I hopefully you can experience what I have with Zencaster. Go to zencaster dot.com forward slash pricing and use my VIP code, the politics of everything, all lowercase in one word, to get 30% off your first three months of Zencaster Professional. How good is that? I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. Hello, it's it's been a while between podcasts. And so I'm not going to ask you my usual question, what did you want to be as a kid? Because we've done that a number of years ago. But I will ask you to kind of summarize what you actually do for everybody in 2024, because you wear millions of hats, which I've alluded to in that intro. But how would you describe your key focus at the moment?
Advocacy for Small Business Owners and Core Values
00:03:58
Speaker
I would say that I advocate and equip. So advocate for small business owners, women, whoever it is that feel that they're not being heard with a focus on those two areas in particular and then equip them. through different means to be able to survive and thrive in today's world. I love it, and I think you do that really well. One definition of the topic today I saw was ethical entrepreneurship is beyond the bottom line and aims to make a positive impact in the world. For example, by embracing more sustainable practices, entrepreneurs can contribute to environmental preservation and resource conservation. I'm sure it goes beyond that. How would you describe ethical entrepreneurship in your view?
00:04:40
Speaker
and Why is it something that you are interested to chat about today on this podcast? so It can be different for different people depending on their core values, but I feel that in today's society, there are so many factors and forces, I would say, that are pulling you away from what it is that you truly believe and what you really stand for. It's so important for people to be reminded and also assisted in sticking to what they believe in. So doing the right thing. And it can be very difficult when you have money in front of you or you have opportunity in front of you to say, is this the right thing to do for you know my business, which I'm trying to build?
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the challenge for lots lots of people. And as you mentioned, money can be an amazing empower of people, but it also can be a detractor sometimes. Why do you think ethics get challenged for entrepreneurs, perhaps more than other people in business? Because you know making money is not always the cause of root evil, but there is a saying around that. But are there some examples which you think bring to life, I guess, some of these challenges for entrepreneurs particularly?
Financial Pressures and Ethical Compromise
00:05:50
Speaker
Look, a lot of them, and I've worked with so many, they fear that if they don't have the funds, they won't be able to achieve what is they want to achieve. And a lot of them, ethical ones, have good purpose, like they're purpose-driven. They want to either help the environment, help individuals, or they've got a solution that will work with people. And we've been pretty much conditioned that you need to bend and tweak
00:06:17
Speaker
um in order to appease whoever it is that has the funds, whether it's a bank, whether it's a VC, whether it's another form. But there's a big shift happening where the society and where there are platforms like virtual that allow an entrepreneur to um go out and say, you know what, I'm going to take control of my narrative and what I stand for and then raise funds that way. And it's so important because what can happen is that people that have a lot of money can start to dictate what you should and shouldn't be doing in your business and that kind of defeats the purpose of
00:06:54
Speaker
the ethical entrepreneur that usually started their business because they didn't like the way things were done in the first place. Yeah, exactly. And I think I guess some of the challenge, I guess, if you're an early stage entrepreneur and you don't have cash behind you is that you kind of have to make, I guess, compromises, if not sacrifices, to get to where you want to be. Is there any sort of room for that kind of, I guess, that levity where you kind of go, well, I'll keep taking this particular path until i'm in a position where maybe i can buy back that equity in my business or i don't need vc funding or i don't need to have a co-founder who maybe i don't necessarily agree with but they bring some great things to the table like how do you i guess,
00:07:36
Speaker
not be too nervous about it. I guess it's the purest thing. It's like, you know what I mean? Well, you can't compromise on your values. That is dead set. Number one, is if you want to be an ethical entrepreneur, you cannot compromise on your values. Now, that might mean that your journey takes five to ten years longer. than someone else. It might not. But the thing is, when you stand firm on what you believe and who you are, it will actually filter out those people that have you know a motive that doesn't you know that's disingenuous or whatever it is. And what will it do? Open the doors and the way for you to find the people that agree with you. Find people with the same values. We're seeing this in every other area of life. Work with the people who have the same values.
00:08:17
Speaker
You know, have friends with the same values. It's the same with your um business. So the more you say no to the wrong things, the more the right things will be in your path. Yeah, I've personally experienced that. I suppose the challenge is, and it's been sometimes you don't learn these things until you have the
Instincts and Research in Business Relationships
00:08:33
Speaker
experience. It's the hot plate theory. I can tell you that hot plate's hot. But Amanda, until you put your hand on it and and burn your hand, you're not probably going to believe me in the same way. I've worked with people that I thought were on the same page and perhaps haven't been. And that's even before I was an entrepreneur, but obviously since then as well.
00:08:49
Speaker
And it's a tough lesson but sometimes you know you kick yourself or you don't always know because particularly i think with things like social media people present one way and sometimes they not. The same so how do you she' trying to make that sort of distinction cuz i must admit i'm a grown woman and i've been fooled before. Oh yeah, let me tell you there are master manipulators out there. Look, you go with your instincts. Often we kind of ignore them at the very, very beginning and we think, oh, we're just being you know paranoid or this ridiculous. Do your research. Actually and treat it. you know We don't do references. we don't We don't get into the deep dive that we need to when it comes to our businesses. so
00:09:31
Speaker
speak to people that's worked with them, or what have their been, their decisions get to know them. You need to see them and how they've handled difficult situations. ah What are their responses to what's happening maybe in the world, maybe in politics, whatever it is that you think, how would you handle the situation? Because that says a lot about their character. So you really need to find out the character of people and sometimes when you're anxious and you need money or you need connections or you want to grow your business, we can skip a few steps and this shiny new object can actually end up being poisoned. Yeah, we've I think we've all experienced that at some point as well. Yes. Some successful leaders dismiss this and instead of say, well, business ethics are great, but it's sort of a form of modern virtue signaling. It's you know utopia, if you like. How would you challenge that?
Ethical Business Practices vs. Virtue Signaling
00:10:20
Speaker
Look, it's it's only virtue signaling if you're telling everyone you're doing it.
00:10:24
Speaker
Right? So true ethical business leaders or business leaders with a good core value system and entrepreneurs with that core value system, they just apply it in the decisions that they make. So it's who they are. That's how they breathe. That's how they think. If they're having to tell everyone how wonderful they are and all the wonderful decisions they're making, then that's virtue signaling. It is hot at the moment. A lot of people are doing it, but you just um scratch a little bit. You just scratch a little bit and you'll find out. look A classic case would be the companies that say that they're highly diverse and a lot of their collateral is all these diverse people. and Then you look at the board and they're all the same. and Exactly. so It's not hard to dig a little deeper in that capacity, but it's not purchasing. link and I think people that say business is no place for ethics, so the type of people you want to stay away from.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And it's interesting. And obviously, my business is around communication. And I'm very good at analyzing people's communication styles and all those pieces as well. But one thing I've observed is sometimes when you're overly stating something, particularly through LinkedIn or other sort of platforms, it's often the thing you're not. If that makes sense. So if you keep saying, you know, I'm so strategic and I'm using strategic all the time, it's like, are you or you just want me to think you are? Prove it. I need proof points. I need that scratchy at the surface. That's right. And that's what's interesting. So a lot of people aren't look the fruits of their labour. So let's look at what they've done. Who are they? What hard work have they put in? Who have they worked with? And that takes time. So often when people don't have the credibility, they don't have the track record.
00:12:02
Speaker
and they're just sprucing one liners, that's a red flag. So go back and see the journey of that person and you'll see a lot about them that you probably would have missed if you were just reading that one liner. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing is, with social media, you notice, and of course, people are entrepreneurs, we all have multiple businesses, you've done that as well. I've had agencies importance sold as well. But sometimes people reinvent themselves a lot. And that always worries me a bit. Does that make sense? If you can't join the dots, I'm like, hang on a second one minute, you're like a yoga guru. Next minute, you're a corporate mindset expert, like, but you've just gone but put on a line in the sand, you know, and gone, I don't do that anymore.
00:12:43
Speaker
It depends on what their agenda is. Often when people jump around, what they're looking for is cash. So they're looking for a formula of something that'll work. You see this a lot with cults. If you watch a lot of documentaries, they're very similar. It's all about getting people to sign up to pay for it. Business coaches are very similar. So you just sign up, you pay me money, and I'll show you how to make money when you actually made money from people signing up. so Isn't that the irony of helping? Yeah, I was going to say, I'm pretty sure that would sound like something Amway would have done in the 80s. Well, now they call it a lot of things and the reality is you need to ask questions and we need to get comfortable asking questions that are uncomfortable and get used to the fact that some people are going to be scratchy in return. So some people will get vicious in their response, some people
00:13:31
Speaker
might go, yes, good question and answer it honestly and give you connections from previous clients. They're the people that you should look into a bit further and they're probably the right people. But if you ask questions and people don't want to answer them or they're uncomfortable or they're avoiding it, there you go. You've solved your problem straight away. You don't work with them, but they're everyone. And I think how do you feel about things like testimonials, which I kind of take with a great assault in a way. Sometimes I figure you're not going to put forward people that don't love you and, you know, say great things. But how can you get that? I guess that reference check piece, which I think, you know, different in when you're employing someone, you can do that. But I think when you're working with someone collaborating as an entrepreneur, that can be harder.
00:14:12
Speaker
It can, and I think with testimonials, diversity of testimonials is usually a good sign. So you've got a very diverse mix of the type of people they've worked with, from whether it's industry or the type of person, because you know that they've been around and worked extensively. Also, reach out to the people. So if there's a name attached to the testimonial, even when you're dealing with someone, I always say, can I speak to two or three people that have worked with you? you know and get an understanding of what's your relationship with them, how long you work with them, what have you done, then ask other people, do your homework. So if there is a testimonial, there should be more than just one or two, red flag is when there's only a couple. um Look at them, contact them. What is it like working with these people? This is the type of level of of investigation you should be doing when money's involved and your business is involved.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Of course. How can ethics be seen as more than those externally espoused vision or mission statements, which you might see on a website or on socials?
Ethics in Action During Difficult Times
00:15:12
Speaker
I think sometimes doing good and looking good are not the same thing in business, but, you know, someone keeps sort of, you know, pushing a message. You do start to believe them, even if you haven't necessarily had that experience. What what do you sort of see around that sort of ethical, I guess, mismatch? Oh, look, you see it in large companies all the time with their taglines, or people with their vision statements. It's just the proofs and the pudding. So look at how they respond to difficult situations. Like you a large company is a classic case of, okay, the difficult situations come up, they've made a mistake. How did they handle that? Because it's not necessarily the mistake that's a problem with the business, it's how they respond to it.
00:15:51
Speaker
So if you're dealing with someone or a small business an entrepreneur or someone with funding, ask the questions, show me the proof, what have you done? Now, if they are constantly telling you how wonderful they are, how they've donated their time to overseas charities, and they've helped here and helped there, you can go, okay, what are you covering up, right? and So why is there a need for that? i actually like businesses that don't constantly tell everyone where they don't at their time and their money, it says a lot. It means they want to do it because it's the right thing to do, not because they're trying to get some brand equity out in the marketplace. So again, dig deeper, look at the annual report, meet with the but people, connect with them on LinkedIn, look at what they, you know, where they speak, where they participate, what their language is, but especially look at how they handle difficult situations.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, I reckon, you know, they say good times, everyone's, you know, great, but hard times is where people are made or broken. yeah I think in a crisis, that's often when you see, you know, I guess the scaffolding might fall away a little bit. is Is there a way in which, you know, during tough times for yourself, for example, you might navigate your own ethical challenges because, you know, I'm sure in business you've had plenty. But there's some sort of hard and fast rules that you stick by when you are dealing with your own, I guess, ethical approaches to to tough times. Oh, look, I don't budge. I'm unmovable with what I stand for, which really shocks a lot of people. So there are a lot of opportunities that I passed on or the they've said no to me because I won't budge. And that's fine. But what that does, it sets a tone in the marketplace that if you want A, go to Amanda. If you want B, go elsewhere.
00:17:32
Speaker
And the more I've done it over the years, the more defined and refined I am in the marketplace where the people actually say, you know what, I actually know how to find who she is. She will say no to that, don't even bother. up People that I know that have been, you know oh, can you approach me? And if it is, don't bother, she'll say no. So that took a long time though. And that took a lot of years. I was going to say, what was I guess along the way, you probably had a few hardships and heartbreaks in business as well. I had a lot of shocks of of people's character. Yeah. Absolutely. And to this day, I'm still regularly disappointed by the character of people. And usually when money's involved. Yeah, I was going to say. and yeah That's the thing.
00:18:14
Speaker
but But it is. But the thing is, there are people out there that just chip away, get it done.
The Cost of Sticking to Core Values
00:18:19
Speaker
And if you're going to be an entrepreneur for good, then be for good. If you're going to be an entrepreneur and you don't care how you're getting money, that's a different group for people altogether. And they're the people that aren't even interested. They won't even be listening to this podcast because they have no interest in their things whatsoever. It's more for those who feel like, oh, I'm not sure about this. If I say no, they won't like me or um this is a great opportunity, but I'm my gut says, you know, things are wrong and say, no, I've passed up. I would probably say millions of opportunity, millions of dollars worth of opportunity, which is fine. It doesn't phase me. But every now and then I think, wow, it is pretty tough out there. But I have met and worked with and connect with like-minded people and it's very rewarding. It just takes time. Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker
Just on that point about the unethical, less ethical entrepreneurs out there wouldn't be listening to this. I have another theory. They might be sharing it and liking it, Amanda, so that they look ethical. Oh my gosh. I don't mean to be always the naysayer. That is so true. That is so true. They would too. This is a great podcast. Amazing. Focus on ethics, everyone. so But hopefully, as long as people are listening, I don't know. I've got you right now, you're a douche. yeah Absolutely. Who's your favourite ethical entrepreneur and what values and I guess, you know, ideas do you love about them or have you seen up close that you think, wow, they're someone we should, if not emulate, aspire to sort of be part part of that sort of ilk, if you like? Well, I'll say two. One I don't know personally and one I do know. So don't know, I take Canva.
00:19:53
Speaker
co-founders because they do a lot of, well firstly when they created something to help people and secondly they give away a lot of money to charities but they don't tell everyone. So it kind of gets exposed through second, third hand um communication channels. And that says a lot about a business, that they're doing it for the business and to help people with their extra money, they're not holding on to it and trying to be up with the elite. and for One, personally, I would say Kirsty Parks from Community Cafe Inc. It's someone who I've watched from the very beginning build a charity from scratch without knowing how to and make it, or for starters, it's successful.
00:20:38
Speaker
But the people she connects with, they just instantly stick to her and they grow. And and it's been growing at a slow pace, but at a substantial, um how could I say, ethical, long lasting pace. And that means it will last. And I think that's what we need to learn, especially from the micro organisations that you know are going to potentially um end up national. that they could license out because the processes and the core values of who they are, she just did not budge. She would not budge the whole time and would not give up on saying this is needs to happen for the community. So she put the people that she cares about first before anything else and would say no to anyone that she didn't believe in.
00:21:25
Speaker
which you would kind of expect if you were to go into that space. But I know firsthand that's not always the case in not-for-profits and charitable organizations, which is kind of like, yeah say ironically. Let me tell you, there's a lot of corruption in ah in a lot of industries. A lot of people are under the impression if you're not profit that you're doing the right thing. I'm sure people would be shocked that there are, you know, are places out there that have massive amounts of pokies are not for profit, sporting clubs are not for profit. I'm actually studying that right now. What is a not-profit and the loopholes that people go around. so I always say before you help a not-for-profit in any capacity, get to know the CEO, research them because of fish rots from their head. If they're bad and if they're making bad decisions or if you're not liking where they stand ethically, you shouldn't be supporting anything under them.
00:22:19
Speaker
Absolutely. Changing tack a little bit, your current favourite business tool app that you're loving, it's either saving you time, money or just brain space. Can you share that with us? ah I can again. You and about 30 other people on this show, but um I understand why. Well, only because I do graphic design. One of my many things I did in the early years, I built websites from code. So I understand the pain of anything in graphic design. and the need for speed and efficiency. What I like about it is that every single person on my team has the ability to use it, which means that things can be tweaked, changed.
00:22:59
Speaker
ah without having to go through just the single source of failure of one person. What I've loved about Canva is that they've really evolved. I saw recently they're going to expand into working with actual graphic designers, people who actually like you have maybe have studied it or that's their business these days. So it's always been something that I guess most of us that are not that are graphically challenged, if you like, could use. But now you're going to you know, they've sort of seen that there's an opportunity to to work There is. but Rather than sort of pricing them out and cutting them out, which I quite like. I think that's quite smart. Absolutely. Very smart. you know Especially those people that are doing that as well as other things because these days, you're not just a graphic designer. No. For a large company or a large agency, you have to do lots of things. Absolutely. Totally agree with that.
00:23:43
Speaker
Your biggest life lesson to date and why has it been important to you? Well, there are so many. I reckon we could do a podcast just on our lesson. Yeah, wow we definitely could do that. But I would say never doubt your first instinct about someone. Yeah. Interesting. Never question it. And it doesn't mean, and it't it doesn't mean you don't have to know them or you don't have to work with them, but you need to know who they truly are and then you can work with them accordingly. Yeah, absolutely. No, i would I would second that as well. And how do you define your own version of success, Amanda? You're obviously very successful in in what you do and um you continue to work, I guess, in that way. That's ethical, but for you, what does success look like personally? For me, it's living um a quiet life, financially independent, but achieving my goals and not the goals that other people have for me.
Building a Network of Like-minded Individuals
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's great.
00:24:39
Speaker
And just a final takeaway message for us today on the politics of ethical entrepreneurship. Don't budge from your core values. Go and find people that you're aligned to and don't ever, ever, ever feel that you're alone because there are other people out there that feel the exact same way you do. Go and find them and build your own network if you need to. Absolutely. Always a pleasure to chat to you, Amanda, and of course lots of pearls of wisdom in there as well. If you do want to find out more about Amanda Rose and her business opportunities, please do connect with her on the show notes. There will be some details. Until next time, take care.
00:25:15
Speaker
Thanks so much for listening today. If you've enjoyed the politics of everything, I thrive on your feedback. So please add a short review and share the podcast with your network through Apple, Spotify, and all the usual suspects. I'm always on the hunt for new and diverse guests. So if you or someone you know has a fresh idea, you're busting to get out there, please email me at amber at amberdains.com and my crew will get back to you very soon.