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246: The Politics of Balance - Danielle Colley
12 Plays32 minutes ago
The idea of true balance in our lives can often feel allusive and at times impossible. What if there was a way to make it more of a reality in our personal and professional lives? I am speaking with Danielle Colley, integrative life coach, speaker, event facilitator and writer. For the past five years, she has been helping people who are feeling stuck and dissatisfied with their lives to reach their full potential. Hundreds of people have taken Danielle’s courses at Your Good Life that tackles confidence, self-worth and courage. Danielle also delivers leadership workshops for well-known brands that include Sony Pictures Television, F45, The Leadership Institute and Transport New South Wales.
Her latest book The Chocolate Bar Life made my ears prick up – the title was so unique. After being fired as a journalist at The Australian Women’s Weekly, the solo mum was propelled beyond stress and straight to burn out which many of us can relate to. Addicted to stress and self-soothing with whatever she could, Danielle realised at the heart of it was the ingrained conditioning that success proved you were a worthy human and should be attained at all costs.
But a chance comment about making life more like a Mars Bar changed how Danielle saw life forever. Deciding life should not feel like a constant uphill marathon, Danielle’s new mission centred around creating an ambitious life that still felt good to live. She lives by the sea one hour south of Sydney, with her husband, her two kids, and their dog, Rocky.
This show includes views from Danielle on:
1. Share with is what led you to ‘burn out town’ as you describe it? And what was your redemptive path back to balance?
2. Is the idea of work/life balance too binary and can set us up to fail because in truth real life is always a raft of ups and downs in any given period?
3. Your book The Chocolate Bar Life (Hembury Books $29.95) is both powerful and humorous = and it guides readers through powerful learnings, showing that if we prioritise the delicious balance between work, rest and play life becomes far yummier. How did you make this book stand out as there are so many others that tell us about how to stress less and seize the day already?
4. Your non-negotiable fave daily habit?
Connect further:
(31) Danielle Colley | LinkedIn
https://daniellecolley.com.au
POE listener offer: Zencastr is my podcast platform of choice. Use my special link (zen.ai/thepoliticsofeverything30 [http://zen.ai/thepoliticsofeverything30]) and use code "THEPOLITICSOFEVERYTHING" to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more.
00:00:22
Speaker
Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program. Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
00:00:45
Speaker
The idea of true balance in our lives can often feel elusive and at times impossible. What if there's a way to make it more of a reality in both our professional and our personal lives? Well, today I am speaking with Danielle Collie, an integrative life coach, speaker, event facilitator and writer.
00:01:01
Speaker
For the past five years, she's been helping people who are feeling stuck and dissatisfied with their lives to reach their full potential. Hundreds of people have taken Danielle's courses at Your Good Life that tackle confidence, self-worth and courage. Danielle also delivers leadership workshops of well-known brands such as Sony Pictures Television, F45, the Leadership Institute and Transport New South Wales.
00:01:24
Speaker
Now, she's got a great new book out called The Chocolate Bar Life, and that made my ears prick up. That title was just so unique. Her story is also very interesting. After being fired as a journalist at the Australian Women's Weekly, the solo mum was propelled beyond stress and straight to burnout, which I'm sure many of us can relate to at times in our lives.
00:01:44
Speaker
Addicted to stress and self-soothing at whatever she could, Danielle realised at the heart of it was the ingrained condition in success, prove that you are a worthy human and should be attained at all costs. But a chance comment about making life more like a Mars bar changed how Danielle saw life forever.
00:02:01
Speaker
Deciding life should not feel like a constant uphill marathon, Danielle's new mission centered around creating an ambitious life that still felt good to live. In her personal life, she lives by the sea one hour south of Sydney with her husband, two kids, and their dog, Rocky, and I warmly welcome you to the politics of everything. Hello. Hi, Amber. It's so nice to be here.
00:02:22
Speaker
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00:03:03
Speaker
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00:03:21
Speaker
to get 30% off your first three months of Zcaster Professional. How good is that? I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. We've had a little bit of crossover because obviously you were working at Strain Women's Weekly and I'm a former journalist. Was that something that you thought you wanted to do at a very young age or sort of what was your early career story? Yeah, no, I fell into journalism completely by chance.
00:03:50
Speaker
ae Well, very early on, I was obsessed with Dame Margot Fontaine. I wanted to be a ballerina. not But sadly, not very graceful. So I stopped that quite early on. and And acting was the thing that I really wanted to do. i got I was a full drama nerd at high school, and that continued well into my 20s.
00:04:15
Speaker
um i um you know I trained and I auditioned. What sort of acting? Was it stage or screen or bit of everything? Whatever I could whatever i could get. but Yeah, that that's that's acting. isn and ah There's like terrible bit parts on bad socies and um cheesy ads. I would write and produce my own theater or make my own short films, anything to sort of keep my hand in. But at about 27, I actually was like, oh,
00:04:44
Speaker
I've worked in enough bars trying to support this acting gig that wasn't really going where I hoped it would. So it was time to get a real job. And that's when i I fell into audio producing and after that TV producing. And then I had a couple of kids. So I've been in the media for a while. But writing absolutely came about by chance because my marriage ended.
00:05:11
Speaker
And I had two kids under four and no job and no money of my own. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I know, right? It's everything all at once. You know how you usually have a couple of things, but you had all the things. and That seems to be a bit of a trend for me. That seems to be a bit of a thing. I wonder, but does that happen for everybody though? I think it must. It can't just be me. No, I'm sure there are people out there all nodding. like Oh yeah, me too. But I think when you're in it, it's just a lot, right?
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It feels like your brain is going to blow up. So I just, I started, I had a little blog that was doing okay, not making any money or anything, but it had, it was a solid body of work. And, uh, I sort of used that to springboard me to start pitching to editors. So that's how I got into, you know, online and print publications. And it kind of went from there. I learned on the go pretty quickly.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. well I love that. Wing it sometimes. It does work out for a bit. Obviously, in the introduction, we I mentioned your story about learning to what you leading to what you call burnout town. What was that redemptive path back to some kind of balance like for you? What what steps did you have to take?
00:06:29
Speaker
I love the assumption that i I've reached some kind of... Oh, come on. You're the girl of balance, our topic today. I mean, you know, but yeah it's always a work in progress. But the idea that, you know, you you reach that point and you go, I can't do this anymore. My body, my brain, everything's done. How do you actually put yourself back together?
00:06:48
Speaker
Um, I feel pretty hard. So, um, after, after I lost my job, then also my dad got really sick and, and passed away. And so I like sort of had again, thing after thing, right. And I fell pretty far and was, I mean, I spent a bit of time on the couch crying. I have to say, Oh, everyone has to do that. Come on. Yeah. I gave myself space. I think, I think that was kind of the thing that it led to everything else as I was like, I can't just keep pushing forward. It's not working. It feels like crap. I feel like crap. And I actually was so exhausted, like, like bone weary of everything. But I was tired of myself. I was tired of everything. So I really needed to take some space. And I was really fortunate, Amber. I really, I do recognize that a lot of people
00:07:45
Speaker
don't have that opportunity or, you know, for whatever reason, whether it's financial or there's no support or, you know, I mean, obviously I still had to parent my kids, but I had a bit of a financial buffer. I had at that time, he was my boyfriend who had was a great emotional support. So, you know, it was recognizing that I needed, I needed some time out. I needed to go and sort of recalibrate. And it was from there that I was able to Well, I actually really and i dove into research, researching happiness, researching, um you know, what like more about positive psychology, understanding how the human brain works, what even is happiness, what do we think success is, all of that sort of stuff. So I went on a bit of a a journey um to understand why I felt like crap.
00:08:38
Speaker
And I thought that, you know, maybe I could hack it through learning. Alas, you can't brain, you can't think your way out of this emotional stuff. No, definitely not. And you can't sort of speed it up or all kind of shortcuts. There aren't shortcuts in these type of things. I know we'd all be very wealthy people. I think we had a shortcut to that, you know, the ideal kind of balance and how to do it. The thing is, it is those It's those like really big life moments where
00:09:11
Speaker
you feel like everything has gone to crap and it's never going to be good again. They're the pivotal moments that sort of um catapult you towards something else. Otherwise we're just going, we're cruising and there's no need to really reflect or assess or make any changes. yeah So um sadly it's a bit of a design flaw I think that we have to go through these like really big lows or really big periods of questioning everything before we can I think maybe have the courage or be sort of propelled towards whatever the next thing is. Yeah, I think that's pretty pretty sensible insight.
00:09:48
Speaker
This idea of work-life balance, I have a little problem with it. I find it quite binary and I feel like it sets us up to fail because in truth, real life, like you just mentioned, is always a raft of ups and downs over every given period. There are periods in my life where I've been building my business and it's all been about work and I haven't exercised or ate that well or spent time with my friends or family, but I knew it wasn't forever.
00:10:11
Speaker
The work-life blend thing kind of is my way of rationalizing that. But I think there has to be overall a sense of wellbeing in everything we do really to function long-term, because otherwise, like you've mentioned, we burn out. We are not machines. What's your kind of sense of this idea of work-life balance from your own experience?
00:10:32
Speaker
Ah, look, I don't think it's work-life balance. I think it's life balance. And I think one of the issues when we talk about work-life balance is people sort of imagine in their head a scale that is balanced. Therefore, it would be sort of two equal things. But what you know what the what the chocolate bar life philosophy really talks about is how exactly what you said, different seasons, different things, different days are going to require different sort of parts of your energy or of your brain space or your capacity is going to go into a certain area. But it's understanding that there are sort of these elements, much like the Mars bar. So if you look at the nougat, the chocolate, the caramel, they are not in equal ratios. They are all present.
00:11:23
Speaker
And when you take a bite, it tastes delicious. It's like a symphony in your mouth. And so if we think about our life or the balance of our life as work, rest and play, like the famous Mars Bar jingle.
00:11:38
Speaker
ah ma they help you You went there, you sang. Hey, you've done your lifetime, haven't you? Is that one of them? Can I ask? No, no, it is not. Absolutely not. And I don't usually, I don't usually sing publicly, but, um, but you heard it here. You've got it here today. You got it out of me, Amber. But if you think about, if you think about, you know, the, the work rest and play elements of your life and they all need to be present in order for life to taste delicious, right? For life to be really yummy. We need to have those present.
00:12:14
Speaker
And I think that we have a tendency as certainly as grownups to get really good at work and home, right? And we lose, we think we're so busy that we don't have time for rest. We feel like our family needs or everything of us that is not work, therefore all of our play or all of our free time needs to go to them. And I feel like,
00:12:43
Speaker
looking at this concept of work-life balance as there are these elements of my life that when I prioritise them regularly, I can perform optimally and I feel good about my life. Therefore, when the scale is tipped towards one certain thing,
00:13:06
Speaker
I know that I need to ensure that there's little bits of this or some of that to look forward to. Yeah, right. But you have to purposefully do that, it sounds like. You've got to think about this stuff because I think we're we are on autopilot a lot of the time. Yes, absolutely. look Everything nothing happens without intent like being intentional about it you know you can't be like oh I'd really I really wish that my health was better and I was more fit but then not think about your nutrition or make time for exercise so and yeah even your business I really want to grow this business hope it happens by itself no what you do you intentionally
00:13:42
Speaker
right you're like okay well i'm gonna make these moves and i'm gonna make these calls and i'm gonna do this stuff and i'm gonna put this energy into this because this is a priority for me so i think it's recognizing that the priorities are other things and you can do it all and it takes intention. Yes. Right. And when I talk about rest as well, Amber, I'm not necessarily talking about sleeping or having afternoon naps, although I do love an afternoon nap. So do I. Yeah, they're so good aren't they? It's like a civilized concept, I tell you. So yes, that's all. No, I mean, I don't do them often. It's more of a wintery thing too for me. I find it hard to do that in summer. But yeah, luck can be really, it feels a bit decadent, but it's, you know, it's what we call little treats. It's things that don't cost a lot of money, for example, but give you so much joy. That's what I'm all about at the moment.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yes, I love that. What do you do for little treats? So those sorts of things, a short walk, um sometimes it's even just watching 20 minutes of a Netflix series that, you know, in the day, not just waiting till night when everyone's in bed and, you know, I'm exhausted. It's like, yeah, with my lunch today, working from home, I'm going to watch 20 minutes of this and not do something for other people. I think, you know, the working mum kind of thing. I'm not going to hang the washing. I'm not going to run around and get stuff for dinner. I'm going to do something for me. So I think Yeah, I've only learned that later in life though that those things are much better than even going out and buying yourself something Which probably would have been myself soothing thing in my 20s Shopping. Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like you are on the way. It sounds like you are well on the way to Mastering what I call the pops of restorative activities. So we know like I mean we need rest right? We need sleep. I love sleep face Yeah, ah so good. So once you have cracked all your bedtime routine and your morning routine. so you you know You know that you're getting good sleep and you're optimizing that as much as you can. What I'm actually talking about with rest is this idea of restorative activity. right so Throughout your day, you will have little bite-sized pops
00:15:54
Speaker
in between tasks so what happens is we have a tendency to be like i'm so busy i've got to keep go go go go go go go i've got to do this to do this and then i've got to you know finish work and then do all the other things for the the evening routine or whatever and it's just this go through the go go go go until we we flop at the end of the day and we're like oh man i need a glass of wine to take the edge off or i'm going to scroll on my phone i'm going to watch netflix whatever these are all fine But I wonder when you do little things throughout the day, if you have that sustained kind of energy, you're resetting your nervous system, then at the end of the day, you actually don't feel quite as spent. That's it. That's what I've realized. It's not about working to your flop and then going, oh, then I'll reward myself once I've done 40,000 things because yeah
00:16:43
Speaker
I think when you get to a certain point, you just triage your priorities and you know your to-do list is never going to be fully done, but I never used to feel like that. You know what I mean? I used to feel like I've got to keep going and it's like a prize at the end. There is no prize, but it's that, like you say, you're being addicted to that sense of success. It's conditioned into us for whatever reason. could Yeah. And some of the stuff, it's like not stuff on your bucket list. It's just stuff, right? It's just things that have to be done and most of it could wait.
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I like the idea of triaging the to-do list and ensuring that, like, I mean, so we look at our diary, right? Look at your daily diary, whatever's in there, you prioritize and you get done, right? So yeah you can have your to-do list on the desk and you can triage that and be like, okay, what absolutely, what is the deadline today? What absolutely has to be done? What can, you know, what's not super important? But then in your diary, you can have these, okay, at I don't know, one o'clock I'm going to have a five minute stretch break or meditation break or at, you know, 2.30 or three o'clock or whenever I'm going to have a cup of tea in a sunny spot in garden or whatever at, you know, X o'clock. It's like just recognizing that you've got these little pops in your diary. They come up with an alert because if you got an alert, um you can't forget.
00:18:09
Speaker
I'm going to do this thing for myself, which it can be as short as 30 seconds. It doesn't have to be huge. I can't go for a walk unless I've got three hours to climb a mountain. It can be nano bits of exercise.
00:18:25
Speaker
For me, I like being really fit, but sometimes I literally, and this is going to be a little bit embarrassing, I will literally stand at my standing desk and I'll just start doing some stretching or I'll kind of do a few push-ups or, you know, it just makes me feel good and I don't go, well, I don't have an outer exercise, so I'm not going to exercise at all, which is used to be how I used to be. It was like warrior syndrome, you know, I had to do it really hard and fast and long time, otherwise it didn't happen. It's like, no, that's not realistic as well.
00:18:53
Speaker
a and As we get um older as women, and I'm not too sure how old you are, but I'm nearly 48, hitting perimenopause, that kind of activity is not as great for us as it used to be anyway. Exactly. There's lots of studies of how we need to change our exercise and and even our diets as well.
00:19:13
Speaker
yeah Look, your book is fabulous. I love this title, as I mentioned, The Chocolate Bar Life. It is powerful, but it's also quite funny, which I think is really good for people. we It's too much as serious as stuff sometimes. i Sometimes it's harder for me to read because I get so many books sent to me all the time. I like you share some powerful learnings and showing that if we prioritise that delicious balance, as you put it, between work, rest and play, life becomes more yummy.
00:19:37
Speaker
How did you decide that this was the book you were going to write? Because there are a lot of books about about how to manage our stress and seize the day and live you know live for now and all these sorts of cliches. But your book obviously is based on personal experience and you decided that this is the book the world needed. How did how did it come to be, I guess, is what I'm getting to.
00:19:56
Speaker
You know those, you know in the cartoons when you see like a light bulb and and you know someone's had this idea, it was literally like, bing, I was working with a client of mine. So the Mars Bar philosophy, as it used to be known, was the Mars Bar life. I changed it to the chocolate bar life for legal reasons, but interestingly, I just talked to Mars and they said they would have let me use it, but it doesn't matter because I think the chocolate bar life is a more generic and more- Exactly, because Mars might not be everyone's thing, right? Right, right. But um it was the Mars Bar life. And so I was talking to a client of mine, because I work with a lot of people in leadership who have similar, like I was seeing similar problems, similar issues coming up um to what I had lived, you know, like pushing myself beyond my edge, never feeling like I'd done enough, no success or no achievement ever felt like
00:20:48
Speaker
and Like ah I was done and I needed to continually push myself and you know how that played out on my nervous system or my sleep or you know Just feeling like I had to keep go go go go go go more more more more more and so I was working with this one particular client one day and And so I have used I've talked about this philosophy on on big stages. I've talked about it You know, it's one on one and in various different groups for quite a while, but this one particular day I was going really deep on like the nougat and the caramel and I got so i went into it and I was like talking about like you know the chocolate like wraps the whole thing up and that's like the element of play and I was so into it and I was like oh you know what I could probably write a book on this and he just looked at me we were on zoom he just looked at me and I went oh that's it I'm gonna write a book on this I love it the way that the chapters kind of evolved ah you know that it's kind of loosely based on a one-day
00:21:48
Speaker
workshop that I actually had been delivering. I traveled Australia last year. ah i suspect It sounds far bigger than it was. I went to like four cities last year.
00:21:59
Speaker
ah delivering this workshop. And then I realized that everything that I was talking about, what drives your ambition, you know, your saboteurs and your people pleasing and understanding yourself and, and, and having people to call on and all of those things, I realized that we're all under this banner of the chocolate bar life. Like how, how do we have this life that feels really good to live and still have ambition and have goals and be moving towards things that make us feel like we are achieving. What is holistic success basically? How do we have this whole life success? So that's something that I'm um super pumped about is is helping people to have a life that has the space for them to look after their physical and mental health to have
00:22:57
Speaker
great connections with friends to have that satisfaction and feel like they're achieving and doing well, but for it to be in a really balanced way, not just being consumed by work. I agree. Powerful stuff. What's your favourite non-negotiable daily habit? And by the way, this is a new question for my guests, so you are protesting it.
00:23:21
Speaker
Excellent. Cool. Happy to be the guinea pig anytime. I say, I say non-negotiable, but obviously life is life, right? But every morning I try to, after I wake up my son, he usually doesn't get up straight away. I will go into my office where I have a little like an elemental altar with, you know, some crystals and candles and Palo Santo and stuff. And I light a candle to signify the beginning of the day. This is a fairly new ritual for me. I um went into the desert about six weeks ago for an Indigenous healing retreat and we watch the sunrise and the sunset every day. So I've been trying to light a candle at the beginning of the day and the end of the day since. So I light a candle at the beginning of the day, think of my intention for the day,
00:24:09
Speaker
And then I do the kid stuff and then I like to go and have a workout and then walk my dog before I start my day. So I feel like I'm having a little bit of the spiritual, a little bit of the physical and walking the dog is a bit of connection and at time in nature because I always go to the beach. So I'm sort of setting myself up every day before I do anything else.
00:24:32
Speaker
apart from the school lunches, which sneak in there somewhere. But that's- I'm yet to make peace with them after like over a decade of doing them. ah Do you know that's actually really funny because I always get to the end of the term and I'm like screw your school And im like I'm so angry about it and yet when I try to get my kids to do them because they're 12 and 14 Yeah, they just throw like stuff you don't want in there. Yeah, seriously So I actually came to this realization that what they eat in their school lunches is really important to me totally important and so if I am going to be a
00:25:09
Speaker
but upight But if I'm going to to have that as a ah place of importance in my life, then I can't complain that I am choosing to do it that way. so i actually i had this It's funny you say that because I had this realisation recently and i I kind of made peace with it.
00:25:27
Speaker
even though it's still like, what, you want lunch again? Are we here again? It's so funny and trivial, but everyone sort of is probably relating who has children of similar ages. What's your biggest life lesson to date and what has it taught you? It's such a big question. I think my biggest life lesson is, is those moments where you think you don't have what you need to get through.
00:25:57
Speaker
you actually do. You're so much stronger than you think you are. And you know I've got loads of like twee, quippy lessons that I could share. But when I think about that particular thing, like the times where I've sat at the bottom of my garden, hiding and crying, thinking, I'm not equipped, I'm not equipped for this, whether it's a parenting thing,
00:26:17
Speaker
or or a daughterly thing because I have a mum who's got MS. um So whether it's any of those things or a big business thing that's gone badly or whatever, and I just think I'm not equipped and I feel like I just am so out of my debt, I have 100% of the time got through it. I have 100% of the time figured it out.
00:26:40
Speaker
So I think it's that, you know, never underestimate the resources that you have inside yourself. Yeah, I agree. Because you're stronger than you know. Absolutely. And you already know that sometimes in hindsight. Another big question for you, how do you define your own version of success?
00:26:59
Speaker
ah For me, it's a life that feels good to live. so like if i If I'm really busy, and like so I set myself a goal. like for For instance, in my business a few years ago, I set myself a financial goal. but and I was like, when I make X amount of dollars a month, I'm going to be successful. right We've all seen it all over Instagram and the people and the monthly revenue and the blah, blah. and I was like, that's going to feel really good and I'll know that I'm successful when I do that.
00:27:25
Speaker
But what it cost, I was, I was working all the time and it, I was frantic and I was missing things for the kids and I was, you know, working into the evenings. And I thought this, yeah, this sucks. This is not, this is not what I thought it would be, you know? So for me, I think it is having the time and space to be able to go to assemblies if that's what I want to do or to be able to go to the doctor's appointments and not have to reschedule because I'm too busy, have time to take care of my physical fitness um workout as often as I want, have time to cook nutritious meals for my family, connect with my friends, not be frantic all the time. Now, obviously I do, I still have like push moments. I have busy moments in my business, but just overall,
00:28:20
Speaker
I feel like a successful life is when it feels good and spacious. Me too. I feel the same. Not always busy. Like this busy syndrome that we all tend to have is just not okay. It doesn't feel like a hamster wheel. There's not enough money in the world to run on a hamster wheel all day every day. No. I agree. I know. The hustle culture, it feels a little bit dated now too. I don't think many people really aspire to it, but I could be wrong. You never know.
00:28:49
Speaker
Well, okay, maybe not, Amber, but like the recent stat coming out of MRSA HR is that eight out of 10 people are going to experience burnout symptoms this year. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Eight out of 10.
00:29:02
Speaker
No. So, you know, you know, the cost of living, there are lots of different reasons why we're like, so why we stress. But I really do feel like a lot of the stuff that I'm seeing with my clients or in my workshops is, is this intrinsic pressure, right? People are putting this pressure on themselves to have this certain type of life. but And what is that about? at At what cost? Yeah. And for whom? I always say, who's your audience? You know, yeah is it yourself? Is it your families and others?
00:29:31
Speaker
and Just our final question for today is your wrap-up message for us on this idea of the politics of balance. I think it's recognizing that on any given day, your ratios are going to be different. you know The ratios of work, rest, and play are going to be different on any given day.
00:29:53
Speaker
so being kind to yourself, cutting yourself some slack, recognizing how you're talking to yourself is really important. um What's your internal dialogue um about all of it, but also just, you know, on any given day, what is required of you is going to be different. So allow yourself to be more like a slack rope walker than, you know,
00:30:22
Speaker
I don't know, trampolinas. I'm not too sure where I was going with that analogy, but I think I i think i got lost. That's all good, and I ah i understand what youre what you're leading us to. It's been a great conversation. and If you do want to connect further with Danielle, of course, there's some details on the show notes. Until next time, be well.