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233: The Politics of Reframing Adversity - Martin Bean
80 Plays3 months ago
Bad things can and do happen to all kinds of people. It can be hard to see the good or the why in such times and adversity is not something we can always easily “get over”. Yet maybe we can. Positive thinking and reframing go hand in hand – we can for example choose to focus on the positive aspects of a situation, rather than the negative. Reframing reduces negative emotions, increases feelings of optimism and hope, and improves overall mood and outlook on life. How do we do that better?
Today’s guest Professor Martin Bean CBE is a visionary leader shaping the future of education and work. As CEO of The Bean Centre, he drives partnerships with pioneering experts, cutting-edge technology companies, and forward-thinking executive leaders to create a future that works. He is also Co-author of the book "Toolkit for Turbulence," Martin equips leaders with tools and strategies to navigate change, seize opportunities, and foster resilient teams.
Currently a Professor at the University of New South Wales, Martin's expertise lies in exploring the evolving landscape of work and lifelong learning. He shares his knowledge as a mentor at Mentor List, connecting Australia's brightest minds. Previously, Martin served as Vice-Chancellor and President of RMIT University, an institution with over 80,000 students in Melbourne, Australia. He also held the position of Vice-Chancellor at The Open University, the United Kingdom's largest academic institution, and served as General Manager of Microsoft's global Education Products Group in Seattle, Washington.
In 2012, Martin launched FutureLearn, the UK's first provider of Massive Open Online Courses (MOOCs), earning him the distinction of being named one of the UK Prime Minister's Business Ambassadors in 2014. Martin represented the Australian Government on the Commonwealth of Learning and was appointed one of three Business Champions to support the Australia-Vietnam Strategic Partnership in 2021. Acknowledged for his contributions to education, Martin has received prestigious awards, including an Honorary Doctor of Laws from the University of London and appointment as a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for his services to higher education.
Tune in to hear Martin discuss:
1. Explain what reframing adversity is about and why it is a helpful tool to use.
2. Are there times beyond work when adversity is not something to be “reframed” or seen differently like losing your partner, a serious illness diagnosis, or a serious accident?
3. How can we best teach leaders and our teams to face adversity better and win?
4. How can we become more accepting of change?
5. Takeaway: What is your final message on The Politics of Reframing Adversity?
Connect further:
https://toolkitforturbulence.com
http://linkedin.com/in/professor-martin-bean-cbe-84655b1a2
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Politics of Everything'
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more. Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program. Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
Reframing Adversity
00:00:46
Speaker
Bad things can and do happen to all kinds of people. It can be hard to see the good or the why in such times and adversity is not something we can always just so-called get over. Yet, maybe we can. Positive thinking and reframing go hand in hand and we can't, for example, choose to focus on positive aspects of a situation rather than the negative. Reframing reduces negative emotions, increases feelings of optimism and hope. and improves overall mood and outlook on life. How can we do that better?
Introduction to Martin Bean
00:01:14
Speaker
Well, my guest today is here to chat about that and that is Professor Martin Bean. He's a visionary leader shaping the future of education and work. As CEO of the Bean Center, he drives partnerships with pioneering experts, cutting-edge technology companies, and forward-thinking execs. to create a future that works. He's also the co-author of the book Toolkit for Turbulence, what a great title, where he talks about equipping leaders with tools and strategies to navigate change, seize opportunities, and foster resilient teams. He's currently a professor at the UN of W, University of New South Wales, and his expertise lies in exploring the evolving landscape of work and lifelong learning. He shares his knowledge as a mentor at MentorList, connecting Australia's brightest minds,
00:01:56
Speaker
and Previously, Martin has served as Vice Chancellor and President of RMIT University, a big institution with about 80,000 students down in Melbourne. He's held the position of Vice Chancellor at the Open University, United Kingdom's largest academic institution, and served as GM and Microsoft's Global Education Products Group in Seattle, Washington. In 2012, Martin launched FutureLearn, UK's first provider of massive open online courses, earning him the distinction of being named one of the UK Prime Minister's Business Ambassadors in 2014. He's done a whole bunch of other things as well, but I'm really keen to get chucked into this conversation today because reframing adversity is something all face, and I want to find out more. So welcome to the politics of everything, Martin. Hello, Amber. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm looking forward to this very much.
00:02:44
Speaker
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00:03:30
Speaker
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Martin's Career and Aspirations
00:03:56
Speaker
Yes, what an accomplished human you are. But I guess what I really want to ask you before we get into our topic today is what did you think you might do when you were a younger Martin Bean? Did you kind of think you'd be an academic or something else? Or did you have some other dreams and aspirations? Yeah, no, in fact, um if my dearly departed stepfather Jim thought that I would end up being an academic, he would have been shocked.
00:04:19
Speaker
amber I actually the whole way through high school wanted to be a lawyer but i didn't get the grades in my year twelve to get into law back in the day it was pretty pretty selective and then i got some terrible career advice at school which is often the way sadly for a lot of young people i was told i'll just go do economics and you'll do well in your first year and then you can switch to law. Well, unfortunately, Martin and microeconomics were not a good match. So I got lucky. I joined like a lot of students do a wonderful student association that ended up taking me to run it for Australia in Sydney and then to run it globally in Brussels in Belgium and that
00:04:56
Speaker
really ignited for me a passion for global, a passion for education. And when I got back to to Sydney, actually, when i when I got home from Brussels, I joined the wonderful UTS in Sydney and they had a great Bachelor of Adult Education program, Amber, and I jumped into that and never looked back. And education has been the red thread, that intersection of education and technology for my my whole career. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. I also went to UTS um many, many years ago doing communications, which um was a very sought after degree. And now, unfortunately, there's not that many jobs for journalists. So I'm glad I've kind of evolved since then. um But I love hearing people's backstories
Stages of Reframing Adversity
00:05:36
Speaker
as well. So explain for the audience.
00:05:39
Speaker
what you define or how you kind of work around this idea of reframing adversity and why is it so helpful? Because sometimes I wonder if it's just in our DNA, some people are pessimists, some people are optimists, or is there other ways to approach this particular topic? Yeah, and you know what? It's within all of us, Amber, which we talk quite a lot about in in the book. But that we sort of think of it as a pathway of advantage leaders, but it doesn't just have to be leaders either. And there's three stages to that, disruption, adaptation, and then advantage. And and the the mindset that helps people sort of lean into adversity is to really think of the disruption as a force multiplier to achieve what's impossible in stable times.
00:06:24
Speaker
And when you see people suddenly put in turbulent situations, it's the ones that look for the advantage to adapt, which is the second stage of the pathway to sort of recalibrate their personal and if they're a leader, their team mindset to really look for new tools and adaptive capabilities. And wow, have we ever seen that as we came through the pandemic and beyond it, Amber, that A lot of us have really developed a whole set of new coping mechanisms, tools, and adaptive capabilities to to really reframe our lives for many of us, to to do the final step of the pathway, which is by adopting those new tools, techniques, processes, really applying them to emerge stronger from new types of disruption. But the challenge for all of us, Amber, is that when we hit turbulent times, ambiguity, uncertainty,
00:07:18
Speaker
Our natural wiring is to go defensive, to be cautious, fixed, go towards security and the face of all of that ambiguity. And and it's perfectly natural. It's our flight or fight instinct. But again, we we see the people that are able to recognize those feelings of a defensive mindset um recognize them, build their own personal toolkit for sort of um being able to own up to them and move themselves into what we call an adaptive mindset, which is about being constructive, courageous, and creative, where there's the light on the hill. They run towards the challenge rather than away from it. They expect to make mistakes, and their their their approach about mistakes is not failure.
00:08:04
Speaker
but learning, they're really open to seeking feedback and insight, and their predisposition is to help others grow. And so so it's not that we don't all feel it, that terrible sinking feeling, that the knot in our stomach, our sort of our flesh creeping when we go defensive, But those advantage leaders or individuals are the ones that recognize it, build their own toolkit to get themselves into an adaptive mindset, run towards the challenge. But for this discussion, Amber, I think it's really important, though, that as people compartmentalize and go adaptive,
00:08:40
Speaker
They also have to find a way in their lives to release some of that steam, some of that that sort of stress and pressure that comes with compartmentalizing. So a big part of what we talk about is is the cultivation of mindfulness techniques so that people have the ability to release that energy when they need to so that it doesn't bottle up and actually do them harm. That's interesting. Are there times beyond, say, work environments, for example, when adversity is not something that we can reframe? I'm thinking really extreme things like losing your life partner, a really serious illness or diagnosis or an accident. Is there times where that adversity is just what it is? How would you look at that?
Limits of Reframing Adversity
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, look, there are never any absolutes in life, so I'm absolutely sure there are times that reframing um or in like immediately from defensive to adaptive isn't the right thing to do, particularly in the short term, Amber. I think you know owning up to those feelings, recognizing them, legitimizing them, and understanding them and also understanding the feelings that are going on in inside you, taking that time ah to reflect is really important. But then I think there does come a point where understanding those feelings and that defensive mindset and and being able to ask yourself the question, is it now holding me back?
00:10:09
Speaker
and do I want it to hold me back? and And once you're aware and once you've sort of thought about your thinking and your thinking and style, and if you make the decision, no, this is holding me back now, that's where it's really important then to to sort of, from our perspective, to think about the techniques you personally want to use to go adaptive. And much of what we talk about in the book is really that being human And I think it's important that we realize that being human doesn't respect work and life boundaries. Being human is just being human. so So that the techniques we talk about can be just as valuable when we run into those sadly inevitable moments in our lives where we are just given great pause. But what Graham and I hope is that the techniques we talk about can help people um if and when they want to
00:11:03
Speaker
to sort of understand and recognise when those thinking styles are holding them back and then have the tools to to to sort of become much more opportunity thinking, Amber.
Navigating Workplace Turbulence
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So why did you decide to pen a book about this idea of turbulence in workplaces? Is there a backstory and a why for this particular reframing, I guess, of adversity in ah in a workplace context? Yeah, there's a great backstory, actually. So when I took over as Vice Chancellor at RMIT, so it's a $1.4 billion dollars revenue enterprise, 80,000 students operating in Australia, Singapore, Vietnam, and China. um
00:11:45
Speaker
you know everything was was going swimmingly and for your listeners amber vice chancellor is sort of a education speak for ceo so i was running a pretty large organization things were going we're going well my leadership playbook that was honed over thirty years was serving me well my team loved me the university was running well governance was running well And I'd already had Graham, who is my co-author and former three-time lead psychologist to the Australian Olympic team and former A-grade cricketer. so in And his specialization is performance psychology. So I'd already had Graham working with my executive team, but because I declared to them
00:12:26
Speaker
that this was going to be my last chief exec gig, and I wanted them to be the best team I ever had. So Graham was working with us, but then along came COVID, the borders shut, the Prime Minister told all of our international students to go home, and almost overnight, I had to cut nearly three with my the help of my team and leaders. We had to cut $300 million dollars out of our cost-based Amber and and and ah And while doing that, we had to move 80,000 students into digital spaces with in within a 48-hour window. And so I had that terrible sinking feeling. I felt myself go defensive. I felt myself running away rather than running towards the challenge.
00:13:09
Speaker
So I called Graham and I said, look, it's really clear that my finally manicured, honed, successful leadership playbook ah isn't going to cut it. What would I do if I was leading the Australian cricket team into an Ashes battle in England? How would I, as the manager of the team, act and respond differently. And so over the course of that year, we built an entirely new approach to leadership for me in the way that I would run myself and the way that I would lead my team. We characterized it as being the coach that my team needed rather than being their leader or chief exec.
00:13:46
Speaker
um And when we got to the end of that, it was probably about 14 months ago, Graham and I were having coffee on Collins Street in Melbourne and he said, you know what, Martin? He said, the dust is never going to settle. We've got paste disruption and complexity everywhere. We haven't even seen the impact of generative AI on the workplace yet. Will you and I both want to have an impact on leaders in Australia and beyond? we need to write this book. And so he twisted my arm one way, he twisted my arm the other, and then I'm just so glad he did, because now we have something that we both really believe is a very timely and very necessary prescription for leaders of all types to rebuild their toolkit. Because Amber, that's clear to me, the dust isn't going to settle. You know, I had one young person describe it to me a couple of years ago as it just feels like the world is holding its breath. And even overnight last night,
00:14:40
Speaker
we wake up to an even more unsettled geopolitical landscape than when I fell asleep last night. And it seems like every day that's happening, Amber. You're right. Everything's speeding up and the word turbulence is going to be with us for a long time. So it sounds like they are like tools for life in some ways that you can, you know, if you can operate ah in that in that way. What do you think is the best way that that we can teach leaders and our teams in workplaces to face adversity better? and win And when I say win, I don't mean just you know win prizes and make more money and all those sorts of external attributes. I mean, feel like they're doing work that is meaningful, that has purpose, but also is something that they perhaps you know can be proud of and individualize it a little bit too. Because I think sometimes you know there's a lot of things in in the corporate world where it's all about the external and and not very much about the individual and the person inside that team.
00:15:36
Speaker
And I'm so glad you asked because that's where that's where my great love is now, is focusing on individual leaders and really helping them be better for themselves, for their team, um but also for their organization and our communities, Amber. And so, ah you know, there are a few things that I'll share today. In the book, we've scaffolded at around 25 core tools specifically designed to help leaders, but there are just a few themes I thought I'd touch on with you today. The the first, which we which we think about as mindset, is really just resilience training. It's helping leaders to maintain focus and composure under pressure, and how to help their dos teams do the same. And that's why we really, as we've already discussed, talk about that as cultivating that adaptive mindset
00:16:27
Speaker
The second is it's absolutely appropriate to do scenario planning. you know Sort of you and your leaders regularly engaging in scenario planning to help teams anticipate potential challenges, develop contingency plans. that can often reduce the shock and hesitation that can accompany unexpected adversity. You know, I was so lucky in my CFO, Kate, 12 months before COVID, Amber, I actually had run a Black Swan scenario planning event for all of our leaders and our governance ah that was all about what, if all of a sudden we lost all of our wonderful Chinese students, what would that mean to the university? I had a crystal ball. We couldn't believe it, Amber. i mean and And of course, so we actually had the playbook on the shelf, believe it or not, because Kate has taken us through that that exercise and we were just so lucky to to have it. And I say luck, but that's because Kate's just a brilliant woman that she she had us do do that. um
00:17:28
Speaker
the The third thing is just open communication. you in the In the book, we talk about five shares. Sharing is all about largely about communication. And it's about, are you really building and fostering an environment of open communication where leaders and teams feel safe, psychologically safe, to express concerns and challenges? By opening that up, it can often lead to early detection of issues. But then when the storm hits, Amber, you can actually have collective problem solving and the only way you get synergy between leaders and and teams is if you have collective and open problem solving where you get every piece of information and perspective out on the table and then just two more quickly
00:18:14
Speaker
One is to cultivate a growth mindset. In the book, we have a model of a line, collaborate and learn, and the learn is all about a growth mindset, a culture where challenges are viewed as opportunities to learn and grow rather than in some amount of obstacles where people are punished. for you know actually highlighting challenges or mistakes. And the the the final one, which is one of the the the five shares that we talk about, is celebrating the wins and learning from the losses, really creating a culture where even small wins
00:18:49
Speaker
are celebrated, but we're learning from losses without any blame at all. That helps grow psychologically safe psychological safety, it helps maintain morale and motivation, even when there are tough times. It's very interesting that even in tough times when things don't work, if that is seen as a learning opportunity and people are supported to grow and learn, how that will maintain motivation even in the darkest times. So there's a few thoughts, Anne, before we use it. There's a lot. And I can imagine that the book obviously goes into more detail. I mean, I love what you're talking about with crisis planning. Part of my practice, I work obviously in communications and PR and crisis and reputations, my expertise.
00:19:33
Speaker
is I always get people to do the scenarios they don't want to do because I say that's the thing we need to do. You know, if it's about a scandal with a CEO or, you know, whatever, but you know, something happens at the stock price and there's because there's, you know, been a call recall or something and they're all like, I don't want it. We don't want to do that. And it's like, well, that's what you need to prepare for. And if you don't need all those tools, at least you've actually executed everything. We know what we can. do and what we can't do, and we have time to do it. Because when you're in a crisis, obviously obviously your brain is not functioning at that same level of deep thought. You're reacting, you've got a lot of adrenaline sometimes, and you're not necessarily able to make those strategic decisions because it's not a well-oiled machine for you. So I totally hear what you're saying when it comes to going through that scenario planning, but there is a little bit of reluctance sometimes to do that. There's something wrong.
00:20:19
Speaker
more important to do in the amount of times those things get rescheduled is is is amazing. And then of course, when the worst happens and there's a hacking crisis or something, you know, you have the two camps, one that's so happy we've done this and we know exactly how this is going to play out. There is a playbook for crisis obviously as well in what I do, but also the ones that are just calling me going, can we just work through the night and do this, you know, sleep deprived and so forth, which is never, never as ideal in my experience.
Embracing Change and Self-Care
00:20:44
Speaker
No, in the book we call it embracing the squirm. Yeah. And we not we don't like it. We don't like that feeling of being uncomfortable and the the anxiety or the anxiousness that comes with it. So I'm not surprised there's a reluctance to really lean into it because it really does trigger that flight or fight feeling.
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think the broader thing here, and of course, you know, we've got our topic reframing adversity, is how can we become more acceptee, I guess, of change generally? Because that's, to me, the most inevitable thing. Good change, bad change, just change. A lot of people fight it. A lot of people find that difficult. And therefore, reframing adversity even becomes harder for them because they just don't want it to be different. So how do you actually, I guess, encourage leaders and individuals to make sure they can do this? Maybe on a day-to-day basis so that when you have the big changes, the life changes, new careers, or, you know, having to move countries or moving houses and all those big things, you actually have some tools in your toolkit.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, and the the first thing that comes to mind, which can just be so stress relieving, is accept the externality of change. Embrace uncertainty and ambiguity so you learn to lead with poise and certainty as you sort of jump on that highway of uncertainty. And I'll give you a wonderful example. We had 15 co-contributors for the book, either chief executives or CXOs. And one of them at the time was Andrew Westercott, who was the chief executive of the Australian Grand Prix Corporation. And if you remember, Amber, when the Grand Prix in Melbourne was cancelled, it was sort of like the starter gun for the pandemic.
00:22:21
Speaker
first in Australia. It was the first major global sporting event to be cancelled. it was Sort of particularly in Melbourne, it was the beginning of yeah everybody going, oh my goodness. and And Andrew's realized that once they all got back to the office, that they never knew when the race was going to happen again, if it was going to happen again. But he had a whole team of people and a whole organization to run, and and they had no control over the externality of change. They had no control over government policy, over the Formula One our corporation, the FIA, none at all. So he coined a phrase with his leaders, which was ready to race, which was it didn't matter when they got the call to say the race was back on again, they would be ready. They would focus on the things they could control,
00:23:08
Speaker
and they would be ready better than they were before they went into the disruption. So the first technique, I think, is don't obsess or focus or waste time on the things you don't have any control over. Focus on the things that you do have control over. I think it was Bridges that said, it isn't the change that will do you in, it's the transitions. yeah And so managing the transitions, the thing that you can control, rather than the things that you can't. A, relieves a lot of the stress. B, empowers you. C, saves you a lot of time because you're not wasting time focusing on the things you can't control. You're applying that time and energy to what you can. And of course, human beings are always more comfortable when they focus on the things that they can control rather than being out of control. So that'd be the first. The second would be um prioritizing self-care.
00:24:03
Speaker
Which is often the thing you don't do. It's like, I'll delay that, I'll sleep later, I'll eat better later, I'll do that walk later. like Whatever the thing is that you nailed it. Exactly. yeah You nailed it. again Yeah. Yeah. And you know when a lot of leaders you know suddenly were in crisis mode with the pandemic, to your point, they stopped sleeping well, they stopped eating well, they stopped exercising, they consumed More alcohol and they just basically did all the things that they knew they shouldn't do so i think there's sort of if we all could just reflexively. Say no the thing we need to do whenever we hit the turbulence is to focus on ourselves be alert to the cost of ignoring self care.
00:24:45
Speaker
embed habits that suit our inner game. ah you know ah We'll all have mindfulness techniques that work for us. I know for me, it's about breathing and getting control of my breathing, but also really place equal value on performance and wellbeing. But to your point, I don't know why, but we're just wired to give up on all the things that we know are going to serve us well from a self-care perspective when that storm hits. Absolutely. I agree with you on that. I don't know how technical you are, but is there a business tool or hack or something that you're using at the moment and that you're really enjoying because it's either helping you in business or in
Generative AI and Creativity
00:25:24
Speaker
life?
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, you know, i want of yeah what first ah occurs to me is not so much a technology hack as more of an approach to life. But if I think about what's really working for me right now, and and i can I can't see you, but your eyes will probably roll, but it it is working for me, is is generative AI. But I use it to unlock me, Amber. Yes. So I've got a project, so I love what Microsoft has coined as being my co-pilot. Often in the work that you and I do, we just need to get started on a project. It could be a set of questions for a podcast. It could be, for me, a new workshop structure that I have to do or a prepared presentation that I have to deliver.
00:26:07
Speaker
And I find by jumping in to I use a generative AI tool that many will have heard of chat GPT, but I work with it not to outsource my job, but I work with it to unlock me, give me a starter position, recognize that it's a machine and it has a lot of limitations, but then take over its starting position, make it my own. and add my humanity to it. And i I can't tell you how much it has sped me up by, instead of just sitting and spinning and waiting for a way to get started, it it it has just been tremendous for me, Amber. Absolutely. I love that. Your biggest life lesson today, and why has it been so formative or important to you?
Life Lessons and Leadership Values
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah, without doubt for me, and I learned it very, very early on,
00:26:56
Speaker
in a number of ways, it was just about accepting people for who they are, absolutely at face value, and don't buy into any of the stereotypes that we create in our society. So I love the fact that I live life where everybody gets a smile, everybody gets acknowledgement, and it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, If you respond in kind and engage me in a conversation, I'm right there with you. And it's made me so much more effective as a leader. it's I lead a much richer life from living that way. Every now and again, you get let down. You don't get a smile back. You don't get engaged.
00:27:43
Speaker
But i I'm never judgmental about that. I never am cranky or angry. I just sort of wonder, I wonder what's going on in that person's life or, wow, I'm a bit sad for them because, you know, it's free to smile. It's free to engage. And actually that reflected energy you get back, it warms your heart. It puts a spring in your step. And I tell you, it's just made me a better human and a better leader, Amber. It's excellent. I've never had that answer. So I love when I get something new. How do you define your own version of success? Yeah, so um you know my my version of success is that Abraham Maslow with his needs hierarchy got it absolutely right when he coined the term at the top of his pyramid, self-actualization. And for me, self-actualization is doing what you do well, like knowing you do it well and loving every minute of it and never having to compromise your personal values as a result of that.
00:28:43
Speaker
I just, that to me, that is success. And I feel just so good about the fact that I've engineered my my life and my career to be at that self-actualization stage of my career now. Excellent. And our final takeaway message for everyone listening on the politics of reframing adversity. Yes, well, I think my final lesson is perhaps the biggest lesson that came through from all of our co-authors to the book, which is really recognizing as leaders today the power of vulnerability and what I think of as values-led leadership. and And it's all about surfacing and affirming your core values, those things that when everything else is stripped away, define you and motivate you to keep moving forward.
00:29:34
Speaker
And if you allow them to guide the decisions you make for yourself, your team, and all those relying on your leadership, and if you couple them with having a really clear view of purpose and intent, That's without doubt what I believe is the superpower of a contemporary leader. We want that authenticity. We want that values-led leadership. We don't want perfection, vulnerability as a strength. Embrace it, work with it, and turn it to your advantage, Amber. I love it. So much goodness in that conversation today. And if you do want to connect further with Martin, find out more about his book and his business and who he is, there are details on the show notes. Until next time, take care.
00:30:18
Speaker
Thanks so much for listening today. If you've enjoyed the politics of everything, I thrive on your feedback. So please add a short review and share the podcast with your network through Apple, Spotify and all the usual suspects. I'm always on the hunt for new and diverse guests. So if you or someone you know has a fresh idea, you're busting to get out there, please email me at Amber at AmberDanes.com and my crew will get back to you very soon.