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249: The Politics of Domestic Violence - Felicia Zsha' Mirzze
10 Playsin 3 days
I met today's guest at the 2024 Stevie’s Asia Pacific Awards event in Manila, and as fellow Australian business owners we connected instantly.
Domestic violence is more than a domestic issue – it’s a well-known national problem in Australia that seems to be a permanent stain on our communities. Recent ABS statistics indicating 41% of Australians have been affected by violence of some kind since the age of 15 and 1 in 4 women and 1 in 14 men have experienced sexual or physical violence at the hands of an intimate partner. As CEO of The Trauma Recovery Network, Felicia Zsha’ Mirzze is an international speaker, advocate, and therapist with a Social Science background with a specialised focus on trauma. Felicia brings a blend of lived experience with a robust academic foundation. Holding a degree in Social Science and Counselling, Felicia is equipped with a wealth of knowledge that extends beyond traditional boundaries. Her academic background includes multiple diplomas spanning Journalism, Legal Services, Community Services, Counselling, and Communication, reflecting a diverse skill set that enriches her perspectives on mental health and well-being. Felicia has presented at the Inaugural Asia-Pacific Conference on Women's Mental Health, The World Conference on Gender and Women's Studies and the Stop Domestic Violence Conference.
This is a huge (adult) topic and given its nature won’t be suitable for all listeners.
Hear from Felicia on:
1. Domestic violence is certainly a national crisis in Australia but it feels like we say that every year. Can you share your perspective on why this seems like an epidemic in our society?
2. What impact does DV based on what you have seen in your own practice?
3. Your work includes advocating for the rights of women with a conviction history. How has this become a focus for you, and I imagine DV is many times a part of these women’s stories?
4. What role do governments play in solving DV – can’t be about money for new programs alone alone right?
5. How can we break cycles of DV in families from your professional view?
Connect further:
(3) Felitciana (Felicia) Zsha Mirzze | LinkedIn
www.traumarecoverynetwork.com.au
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Politics of Everything'
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the politics of everything. I'm Amber Danes, your host and podcast producer. This is a half hour of power podcast dropping every week where I unpack the politics of everything from money to motherhood, nutrition to narcissism, startups to secularism, the environment, quality and much, much more.
00:00:22
Speaker
Our guests are seasoned in the field of topic of their choice, even if you've not heard of them yet. This is a nonpartisan show. So while I love exploring varied views and get a buzz from a healthy debate of ideas, this is not a purely blue, white, green program. Please subscribe, tune in and enjoy the politics of everything.
National Crisis of Domestic Violence in Australia
00:00:46
Speaker
Domestic violence is more than a domestic issue. It's a well-known national problem in Australia that seems to be a permanent stain on our communities. Recent ABS statistics indicate 41% of Australians have been affected by violence of some kind since the age of 15 and one in four women and one in 14 men have experienced sexual or physical violence at the hands of an intimate partner.
00:01:08
Speaker
I met today's guest at the 2024 Stevie's Asia Pacific Awards in Manila and as fellow Australian business owners, we connected instantly.
Guest Introduction: Felicia Czar Mirza
00:01:17
Speaker
As CEO of the Trauma Recovery Network, Felicia Czar Mirza is an na international speaker, she's an advocate, she's a therapist with a social science background with a specialist focused on trauma. She brings a blend of lived experience with a robust academic foundation.
00:01:34
Speaker
She's obviously very accomplished and she holds a degree in social science and counseling and she's equipped with a wealth of knowledge that extends beyond traditional boundaries. Her academic background is impressive. It includes journalism, legal services, community services, counseling, communication, and this diverse skill set enriches her perspectives on mental health and wellbeing.
00:01:53
Speaker
She's presented at the inaugural Asia-Pacific Conference on Women's Mental Health, the Conference on Gender and Women's Studies and the Stop Violence Conference. And this is a huge topic and a bit of a warning, its nature won't be suitable for all listeners. Welcome to the politics of everything, Felicia. Thanks for having me.
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00:03:10
Speaker
to get 30% off your first three months of Zcaster Professional. How good is that? I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. Okay. Young you, what did you want to be as a kid? I don't imagine this particular job was maybe in your wheelhouse or maybe it was. Can you just join the dots for it? So what you were like at school, a bit about your academics and how you got to where you are today.
00:03:40
Speaker
What I wanted to be when I grew up ah didn't even consist of a job description. So a lot of the other kids, we had an exercise, a lot of the kids drew pictures of what they wanted to be when they were older. And there was astronauts, people were drawing pictures of nurses, doctors.
00:03:57
Speaker
I drew a picture of a dog. um my um free skin like pants I did pick that up when we met. ah Well, I have got three dogs. So it kind of has translated into some ways ah into my my adult life. But I think I wanted to potentially be a dog because I saw that they had all of the traits that, you know, everyone loves, loyalty, unconditional love.
00:04:20
Speaker
I'm always happy to see you when you get home. um So maybe it had something to do with that, but I didn't ever have a career focus as a child. though I was more into animals and pets, so to speak.
00:04:32
Speaker
Interesting. You didn't become a vet, though. No, no, I didn't. no i didn't um Look, in my in my earlier career of when I was trying to figure out where I sat in the world, I did initially start off by studying law. I then had to do a pivot and I changed to social science. And it was at a time where distance learning was actually not um you know common.
00:04:55
Speaker
and I wanted to do distance education and that was one of the options and also I found it really interesting because social science also looks at a lot of the behavioral characteristics of how we ah behave as a society and then that led me down the path of counseling.
00:05:11
Speaker
Interesting. Well, the topic
Domestic Violence as an Epidemic
00:05:13
Speaker
today is domestic violence, and it certainly feels like a national crisis. But I feel like we say that every year. Like I feel like this is like not getting better. Can you give your perspective as an expert who works with people in this space and your view on why it's pretty much like an epidemic in our society? And we talk specifically about Australia, but we do have audiences overseas as well. And you know I'm not as familiar with their statistics, but I feel like this one and four statistic for women and one and 14 for men is not OK.
00:05:41
Speaker
No, look, it's definitely not. And and violence on and any level should not ever be normalized or accepted in a community or in a society. But we find ourselves in the in the midst of this you know termed crisis. I feel as though we are focusing probably on areas that you know we could We could focus better on different areas so looking at the root causes and we know what the root causes are. The research has been done. It's about putting together things that are going to be practical and are going to work to solve the issue. So data collection and also looking at
00:06:22
Speaker
communication between government agencies, law enforcement, child protection. We need to be able to flag in the system where there is a risk. And I think there needs to be an overhaul on risk assessment. There needs to be better training for our police officers and first responders. There needs to be better ah risk assessment training in so many areas so that we are not missing ah when you know risk is really present.
00:06:51
Speaker
And you think that maybe is one of the one of the things that's been happening. There's just been a delay between you know identifying some of these risks. And I'm thinking about some specific cases in Australia, which I won't name, where there's been all the signs of of perpetrator violence. There might have been some sort of police involvement and some like legal aspects to it. But certainly, it sometimes has just come too late that that person's been out on bail or has never kind of been convicted. so you know they've gone on to do so horrendous things to to maybe a former partner or someone else in their life, and we look back and go, oh yeah, the signs were all there. like What's your sort of view on that kind of i guess you know trend, if you like? It's very frustrating for me as somebody who responds daily to instances of violence. A lot
Justice System Inadequacies and Solutions
00:07:39
Speaker
of my clients are victims of strangulation and horrific things go on that I'm not sure the general public
00:07:48
Speaker
is fully aware of the circumstances around those incidents. I think because it's highlighted in the media now, people are more aware and more attuned to it. But things go on like women are made to work.
00:08:00
Speaker
in brothels. Their partner takes the money from them and they are afraid for their lives, so this continues. So instances and stories like that go on. And then the perpetrators go to court and these things are heard. And in some cases, I've heard that they get a community sentence so i think the risk Which doesn't feel enough, it just feels like a snap on the wrist really. you know It doesn't feel like it's going to really deter other people from perhaps making similar decisions. So the magistrates need to have some accountability in the decision making process that that goes on as well and I think that needs a big overhaul. I think that the justice system is overwhelmed because they probably wouldn't have enough beds in jail to put everyone in jail that is a domestic violence perpetrator.
00:08:51
Speaker
So there there is that as well. and And when men do go to jail for domestic violence, they're put in a setting that only enhances their tendency to become violent. So I don't think there's enough reform done when they're in there or corrections.
00:09:07
Speaker
um done correcting of behavior when they're in there. So there needs to be some real behavioral change programs in there that make a difference, that actually work, that are evidence-based and that are going to ensure that after these perpetrators have you know engaged in violence, that this is looked at and this is worked on and this is remedied. Otherwise they get out of prison and they engage in another relationship and they continue the abuse cycle. I don't think the penalties I don't think the penalties in place deter. so I think when somebody, you know their amygdala is dysregulated, they've got substance abuse issues, they've got chronic long-term mental health issues, they could even be um impacted by drug-induced psychosis in some cases. and I'm not speaking for everyone, I'm just speaking about a lot of the cases that I see. That's the MO for some of the perpetrators. and you know if they If they have those deficits,
00:10:02
Speaker
And they go into a relationship and there's conflict. I really don't think they stop for a minute and say, oh, they've just actually increased the penalty for this. I'm not going to bash my misses. but That doesn't come in into their thinking processes. So it's not really the answer.
00:10:20
Speaker
Absolutely. So obviously domestic violence impacts the victim, if you like, or the survivor. What impact does domestic violence based on what you've seen have in a broader sense? You know, we can look at the individual cases and and be shocked and then sometimes you just kind of go back to your normal life and you may be working alongside people who've experienced that or grown up in that environment or, you know, you might end up in a relationship with someone who has had those those experiences.
00:10:47
Speaker
Obviously, there's more impacts than just the person. What are some of the things that you see in your everyday experience?
Impact of Domestic Violence on Children
00:10:54
Speaker
I think as a society and in my everyday experience, the the broad impact of this, it's in all spheres. It's absolutely in all spheres. And I think we can see that in our kids at the moment.
00:11:08
Speaker
And, you know, majority of kids that are currently in youth detention or have contact with the justice system all have been victims of family and domestic violence. And I think that their voices are not properly being heard. And I think the solutions that are are being proposed towards remedying youth crime are not ones that are going to work. These are our next generation and they are going to be the ones that are going to be functioning in this world after we're long gone. and They are getting locked up for reasons beyond their control in regards to the fact that they've been brought up in a traumatic environment. so I think the impacts on our kids
00:11:50
Speaker
ah is a huge one, and we need to be teaching our children how to respect and love each other, skills of resilience, how to pick up red flags in another person within a relationship context. And you've got to think too, as an example, and it goes it goes into a generational realm here.
00:12:07
Speaker
If you have grown up in a domestic violence situation, you're more likely to end up in one yourself, because relationship has been modelled to you in a way that is unhealthy, and then you go on to think that that's normal or normalised, and then that continues on in your children, so on and so forth. So to be able to really break that cycle of domestic violence, that cycle of trauma and abuse, we really need to be looking at what we need to be doing to support and help our children.
00:12:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Your work does include advocating for the rights of women with a conviction history, which is an interesting kind of niche if you like. How did this become a focus for you? And I imagine domestic violence is often part of these women's stories as well.
00:12:53
Speaker
Most definitely because instances of of DV and abuse and trauma for women who are incarcerated and or have
Advocacy for Women with Conviction Histories
00:13:02
Speaker
conviction histories, it's in the 90 percentile. So it's gauged at 90 percent, but I would say it's much higher than that because a lot of things do not get reported. People are not ready to talk about it. ah It's a very underreported thing. It's only now recently that that reporting rates are higher.
00:13:19
Speaker
So this is usually inclusive of trying to defend themselves and also substance use is criminalized. And also in regards to substance use, it can be a case of, you know, the male perpetrator ah gets their their partner hooked all or reliant on a certain substance. And then from that, there's more power and control exercised. Then to be able to maintain a habit, they need to do things that are criminalized. So, you know, your drug dealing, prostitution, et cetera.
00:13:49
Speaker
There are so many layers there um that come into it, and it it comes down to the feminization of poverty as well. so Poverty has a lot to do with the reasons behind you know why women end up with conviction histories. and I went down the path of advocating in this area, and as you said, it's it's a bit of a niche. but because I have a conviction history myself, and I also am you know i have experienced some pretty bad domestic violence in the past. I've been strangled, I've been shot at, um so i've I've had some really you know hectic things going on in my life. And when that happened, I sat back and I thought, you know how how did I end up in this situation?
00:14:35
Speaker
And I also acknowledge that I'm in a really privileged position that I was able to leave that situation. I was able to get an education. I had a good support network. I had a lot of things that I'm grateful for that other people don't have access to. So that's why I thought you know I need to be a voice for the voiceless um until they're able to to to find their voice and they're able to heal and recover.
00:15:04
Speaker
and and Absolutely. movement yeah Very admirable, the work that you do. And and how sort of i guess how do you get access to these groups so of women with this conviction history? Are you working directly with the justice system or the legal system or the courts? How does that work from your point of view so that you can actually make a difference?
00:15:23
Speaker
We undergo research, so me and my research assistant Talia, we co-designed a research study and it it talks about the adverse childhood experience and how that translates into offending later in life. So we have people who respond to our ah research study and we also speak at a lot of conferences in regards to the preliminary findings, um but basically we get referrals from domestic violence shelters ah we get referrals from victims of crime services. So that's our our referral pathway. and And also word of mouth, I think that when people know that you have lived experience in addition to you know the academic side of things and the clinical experience, it it instantly makes them feel more comfortable in discussing what has happened to them because they know that it's going to be a judgment-free area. It's going to be therapy and assistance
Challenging Stereotypes of DV Victims
00:16:15
Speaker
of free of any kind of
00:16:17
Speaker
judgment because i've I've been in similar situations. ah So I think that that makes people instantly kind of feel more more at ease talking about what's happened to them because it's not easy. Absolutely. I mean, I guess even though we we talk about the fact it's more high profile, it's more of something that's brought to the forefront through in the media. And obviously in society, we talk about domestic violence quite regularly. There is still probably a degree of stigma and shame attached to having had that experience and even when you're just sharing your story then you even talked about you know that idea of how did I get here you know what have I done to to be in this situation even if it was through no fault of your own.
00:16:57
Speaker
um Most definitely. And a lot of victim shaming and blaming still goes on today, even though there has been a shift in that, and you know, a small shift in that. It still happens today. The old, you know, what what was she wearing? It goes back to that. So there's a real cultural shift that needs to be made so that people can feel as though they're able to come forward and and speak about their experiences and and get help.
00:17:22
Speaker
without having to be you know demonized by society and without blaming themselves. Because some of the most vivacious, strongest women I know have found themselves in situations where they've been subject to some horrendous abuse. And they always think, how does someone like me end up in a situation like this? So no one is immune from these societal issues.
00:17:48
Speaker
Absolutely. It's not really about demographics, although you know I think the stereotypes are that. It's some you know people from lower socioeconomic groups, you mentioned substance abuse, but sometimes that's not always the case. Sometimes things like coercive control and things like that can present itself in people who might be highly educated, they might have great jobs, they might be high profile, they might be celebrities even, and and that can still happen to them.
00:18:12
Speaker
Most definitely. And, you know, there are cases where I've seen, you know, somebody like Erin Mullen, she came forward and she spoke about her experiences. And I think it's really, really good when people who challenge the societal norm as your typical DV victim survivor come out and they speak about their experiences because it it really challenges that stereotype. And I think that's really, really important in changing ah society's attitudes and views towards, you know, what your typical DV survivor looks like. Absolutely. We obviously um can do so much in in the practice and the work that you do and research you mentioned as well. What do you think the role governments play in solving domestic violence? I sometimes get a bit apathetic about solving the world's problems just with money, although that does help. And programs
Government's Role in Tackling Domestic Violence
00:19:04
Speaker
and, you know, we do, you know, raising awareness, we might have
00:19:07
Speaker
certain, and you know, days that we sponsor like White Ribbon Day. I mean, those things raise awareness, but do they move the needle on, on I guess, what we're trying to do here, which has really reduced incidences of domestic and family violence? I commend anyone or any organisation trying to move the needle, but I don't think it's as simple as money. And the the government sometimes puts forward things that I feel are quite unrealistic. I would rather have a realistic view of where we're at, even if it is absolutely you know inconceivable so that we can know where we're going. But we also need to know where we've come from. So we need to look at the origins of of DV. We need to look at the origins of violence. We need to look at the biological factors and um you know also the risk factors that come into it. Some people are biologically also more um prone to be aggressive How do we pick these things up? There's stuff like, there's stuff like fatal jealousy or morbid jealousy, they call it, which we could be screening for, which, you know, more likely to end in, in homicide or femicide. So there's so, there's so many things that need to be looked at. I think also we're working in silos when we all need to be working together a little bit more. Um, and back to your, your question about money, is it, is it the only answer? No, so the government wants to end domestic violence in one generation. I find that really quite offensive and an insult to everyone's intelligence. They cannot end this in a generation. They need a more longer-term strategic plan, like I said, that involves all different cohorts and all different sectors to to have their say and put solutions forward and then to move forward from there.
00:20:47
Speaker
Interesting isn't it because yeah I just like you say those big ambitious targets they sound good they're great announcements for people to make but who's gonna hold you know the government to account because the time that whatever date comes will have a new government will have new leaders if it's not a priority there's something else happening in the election cycle.
00:21:05
Speaker
It's easy to see how it's it's no longer going to trend. And I think about things like the year that Rosie Batty was Australian of the year, that's great. But then we go back to you know sports people and everybody else, which is also fine. But it doesn't necessarily mean that a lot lot shifts. It's just a spotlight. And then moving on sometimes, I feel like, from my view of of what's happening here.
00:21:26
Speaker
The planning is too vague and we need to be looking at other countries that are doing things right and are doing things that are working and then shaping it to suit the way that Australia functions. And I think to the economic state of the country has a lot to do with domestic violence. So if you don't have the economic means to move out of your situation into a better, more healthy situation for yourself and for your children, um that's already a huge barrier. So you can take the $5,000 escaping violence payment But then where are you meant to actually go when there's no affordable rental? I was going to say, there's a housing crisis as it is in Australia. Yeah, exactly. I know people who are on two incomes, great incomes, and they can't even find a rental. So how can somebody who may have been financially controlled for the past X amount of years, who's got three or four dependents, even one dependent, um even people living on their own, how are they meant to go and find a safe, suitable,
00:22:26
Speaker
stable home environment where they begin to rebuild their lives and the lives of their children. So it's just not really that viable. You can give that money to somebody, but then when that money runs out, where are they meant to go and how are they meant to support themselves when they are not in the mental or probably physical state to be able to even begin to look for work or begin to start the process of healing. So I think it's a Band-Aid solution and needs to go beyond that escaping, you know, escaping violence payment. There's so much
Educating Children on Healthy Relationships
00:22:59
Speaker
more that needs to be done.
00:23:01
Speaker
and Looking holistically, what are some of the things that you think could break this cycle of domestic violence in families? so We've talked about, I guess, that big picture, government solutions, but you know at a grassroots level, if you if you've come from a ah background which might be predisposed to domestic violence, you might have experienced it yourself. Like you say, the perpetrators often have had that in their own childhoods or lives and that just cycle continues.
00:23:25
Speaker
How do you break that cycle when perhaps, you know, you might have the resources to go and see a counselor or you might not even think you have a problem? I think that the solutions lie in educating and teaching our children. What is a healthy interaction between partners? What is a healthy interaction in any relationship boundaries? What's acceptable? What's not acceptable?
00:23:51
Speaker
how you treat each other, what treatment you should or should not accept from another human being, identifying red flags early in relationships. So all of these things need to be worked on. We need to be teaching our kids this instead of pushing algebra.
00:24:08
Speaker
yeah You know what I mean? like We need real life resilience and coping tools and and mental health strategies taught in our schools and in our homes. um And if it's not able to be taught in the home, because sometimes, like I said, you know that's where it stems from, an unhealthy environment in the home, that's where the school needs to step in. That's where we need to step in and provide these resources to children that otherwise wouldn't have them.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, changing tack a little bit. What's a business tool that can't be a smartphone that you are finding really helpful in what you do and how is it helping you? Okay, when we say business tool, I'm going to go slightly rogue because it's not going to be actual like a physical thing. I think for me, my best business tool is implementing space for creativity and implementing space for for new ideas and that comes through mindfulness. so I like to sit with myself for at least an hour a day and do some guided meditation. But I also have a notebook next to me. So usually once I finish that process of meditation, I'm able to have some really good fresh perspectives and I'm able to have some really good fresh ideas.
00:25:16
Speaker
Things just come to me after I've allowed that mental space. And I think because we have so much input, our brain can't cope. Our brain is not meant to have as much input as what it has in today's society. um So allowing that space actually taking that time saves me time later because I'm not sitting around trying to come up with innovative or new ideas. They come to me through making space for them. Totally agree. I think a lot of entrepreneurs would agree with that as well. What's been your biggest life lesson today and what's it taught you?
Life Lessons on Resilience and Focusing on Children
00:25:46
Speaker
Biggest life lesson is that it's really, really important to have connection to yourself. Because without connection to yourself, it's very difficult to have connection to other people. And also, look, I know there's only meant to be, I guess, one biggest life lesson, but there's another one that I'll just throw in here.
00:26:03
Speaker
and That is, I think, embracing moments of crisis and perceived failure and flipping the script on that and saying, hey, this is not a failure, this is an opportunity for learning, an opportunity for growth, and I like to change the wording to stepping stone. This is just a stepping stone to my next destination and to where I'm really meant to be.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a bit older than you, but I always um think of that saying, you know, this too shall pass. So whatever I mean, whether it's good or bad, just knowing that this is just a moment and it's a season perhaps, but it's not forever. ah I totally agree with it. And as they say, you know, healing is never linear nor our life's experiences. So I say it's a roller coaster strap in and and let's go. Absolutely. How do you find your own version of success?
00:26:52
Speaker
My version of success I feel is having a really good support network around me, having a fulfilling life and for everyone that looks different. So friends, family, pets, and finding the joy in everyday life and also acknowledging that joy can sometimes walk alongside pain. So even if things can be going terribly wrong, there's always moments of joy.
00:27:18
Speaker
to be found. And I think if you're able to do that, um you can have a successful life. Totally agree with that as well. Just a final takeaway message if we wrap up our conversation today on the politics of domestic violence. Okay. So I guess final message for me would be we need to focus on our children. We need to stop locking up our children who are DV victim.
00:27:42
Speaker
survivors and our women, and we need to have better policies in place, potentially even more lived experience voices in politics and an advising on policy as well. And I think that's going to make all the difference. Well, I love those words of wisdom. I hope somebody out there in power can listen to this show and make some changes too. If you do want to connect further with Felicia, there will be some details on the show notes. Until next time, please take care of yourself. Thanks so much for listening today.
00:28:26
Speaker
you or someone you know has a fresh