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209: Mass Murders + Killings sprees
48 Plays1 day ago
So clearly this is a very sensitive topic, like most true crime, so please be aware this will contain mentions of child death, child sexual abuse and other very violent topics. No explicit details are included but be forewarned it's a rough one. "we observe, but we must not need absorb" about bearing witness to trauma survivors in crime cases.
So first we learn about a William Cook from Kelsey, and he was born to a big family and grew up to be a man who made very poor choices. He had a terrible temper, a penchant for kidnapping instead of just carjacking, and had too many children, who surely hated their father. To make a semi-Minecraft reference, no his children did not, in fact, yearn for the mines. Who wants to live underground but worms, anyway?
Alanna covers the Dunblane Massacre, a school massacre in 1990's Scotland that sent the small town and nation into grief. What causes such impulses, we discuss, and what effects must it have on a vulnerable section of people? our kids are prepped for everything from drunk driving to school shooting these days, and we wonder what the consequences on our mental health must be.
But then also, we find the light that shines through the cracks sometimes, when Alanna messes up musical numbers NOT from Hamilton, etc. So tune in and clutch a stress toy if you can, such is the joy of life, and we love you for being here with us!
Happy Listening and Keep it Cryptic!
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:04
Speaker
Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
00:00:29
Speaker
You are listening to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm your host, Alana. And I'm Kelsey. And she's finding pictures for her segment.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yep. Well, uploading them on the drive, at least. I found pictures. From the one source. What did I even use?
00:00:56
Speaker
it was a like a life.com article. It's like, nice. It's pretty good. Yeah. Well researched. I liked it.
00:01:07
Speaker
When I hate to say it, but just didn't like, yeah, there's maybe pictures of a few people that I'd want to see about in that. I don't have any desire to see any pictures from crime case. I sort of accidentally chose because I was looking at lists and oh, this is something from this date in this place. And then you look more into it and you're like, oh, this is very dark.
00:01:31
Speaker
no like Yeah, especially with our our chosen topic. If you're you're tuning in and you didn't hear us last week or maybe even the week before, ah this was supposed to be last week's episode instead of the UK cryptids. But with the recent events in Canada, the shooting that happened in BC, we just out of Like, I don't know, mental health wise, we didn't want to cover
00:02:04
Speaker
um this topic um mean so quickly after what
Delaying Episodes for Sensitive Topics
00:02:10
Speaker
happened. I mean, Unfortunately, they're so frequent and everything in North America, it seems, and other places too, but especially in North America, you can't really avoid it.
00:02:22
Speaker
But we just didn't want to something so closely what happened. So... I'm not used to it hitting it that close to home. in Yeah, for sure. Usually our neighbors to the south, let's be real, unfortunately. like But yeah, it can happen different different places.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. But anyway, it's like terrible things are, of course, happening all over the globe. Right? All the time.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah. I do appreciate when people are brave enough to address things, but also it's hard because you do want to be a little bit of respite for people to come to where they can just think about something other than the news and stuff, too.
Challenges of True Crime Community
00:03:13
Speaker
I think the the true crime community especially. Like, I have a different type of listenership, I want to say, than maybe some other genres of podcasts that people want to use to escape. So, yes, we're the most maligned, I would say, of all the podcast types, because every freaking media these days, although every, you know, there's always a podcaster character.
00:03:43
Speaker
from Ghostbusters where they his yeah nickname is just podcast to like everything else having a podcaster like having just
Appeal of Survival Stories
00:03:51
Speaker
um watched the latest scream it's like yeah of course there's someone who's obsessed with true crime and Sydney and whatever yeah you know there's always that trope nowadays and it's always like oh they're just like you know very exploitative and listening to it to get their rocks off and it's kind like how horror fans are like treat you know what i mean like kind of sometimes yeah sometimes yeah you're like we're like there's nothing wrong with us we're not less empathetic than other people i read that book i always curiosity yeah i like stories of survival and learning how people were resilient and true uh
00:04:37
Speaker
survival stories area i yeah I yeah really like those kinds of stories where people survive and they successfully fight back I mean there's a lot of stories where people do fight back and they don't necessarily survive and right not necessarily because they did anything wrong but just that sometimes happens and i guess it's that like human element of it could happen to anybody like that Yep.
00:05:07
Speaker
Absolutely. You never know what's going to happen. And yeah, I i hope i hope the our our listeners at least think we approach different topics with like empathy and respectfully and everything. Because I know that's not always the case when you are like listening to different podcasts or different platforms and people so yeah we appreciate all you guys and uh definitely try to be one of those ones you can listen to without feeling gross about it nah we try not to make like like bad jokes and that kind of stuff we
00:05:54
Speaker
keep that to the lighter episodes and jokes about guys trying to white write romance novels with female characters. what
00:06:07
Speaker
Sometimes some of the best writers, yes. Yeah, calf calf yeah yeah it's it's so erotic to hear men write ah accurate descriptions of women. er not Just absolutely not.
00:06:26
Speaker
Oh dear, dear, dear. Um, yeah. How did we derail this intro? Uh, anyway. Welcome. I don't know, but, um,
William Cockeyed Cook's Crime Spree
00:06:39
Speaker
I, uh, full disclosure, have not had any ADHD medication to oh no
00:06:50
Speaker
um but yes keep us kelsey will keep the train on the track off the tent i'll try oh god um sorry we're i am a bit avoidant when it is true crime but that's okay it's i did it i picked spree killers knowing full well that's like massacres it's like oh yeah right People are obsessed with serial killers. This is just as bad. It's taking people out in one fell swoop and often in a very short amount of time and it's very scary. Yeah, absolutely. i mean, always feel like it's a good time to talk about like mental health and how...
00:07:36
Speaker
like, resources and mental health services and everything can play a huge part in these kinds of crimes that happen, as well as,
00:07:47
Speaker
um yeah, as well as, like, people having good support systems and family and friends that they can talk to about things when they're not feeling okay.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, that can play a huge part as well. Obviously, it's not the only factor. Um, same with, like, Gun control and stuff isn't the only factor because if somebody really wants something, they're going to find a way to get it.
00:08:12
Speaker
Like, just because you make something illegal or harder to access doesn't make it impossible to find. It just makes it harder to find. Yeah.
00:08:23
Speaker
And easier to kill people when do find it. Yeah. God. Yeah, so there's a lot of nuance. There's laughter. Sorry. There's a lot of i almost said... I tried to say nuance, but I said nuance.
00:08:38
Speaker
There's a lot of nuance to these types of cases. ah which That's funny. um My case doesn't specifically talk about, but there's definitely some...
00:08:51
Speaker
like childhood trauma and stuff that leads up to it so yeah we'll get into it um and that's the thing it's like that trying to go back and analyze where could someone have perhaps intervened been a good influence in this person's life a lot of times like they were failed in some way and then they lash out yeah like oh that's why i remember seeing a case i ah
00:09:23
Speaker
I cannot remember what it was, but where um the person was, like, reported to their school, and then, like, the school reported them to the police, and the police reported them to the fucking FBI, and, like, everybody fucking knew, and it still didn't help, so, like...
00:09:43
Speaker
At that point, who failed because people did their their jobs, what they should have been doing, and it just still didn't work. So at that point, it's like, okay, what really is the purpose of these? Systematic failure, almost. Yeah.
00:10:03
Speaker
It's like, okay, then what else do we need to do so that that that doesn't keep happening? Because if it happened once, okay, how many more times could it happen, right?
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and anything can be a ah weapon in the hands of the mentally ill, almost. Yeah, and you never... Yeah, you don't know. It's not always guns. um In my case, it is, but i did pick a older case. Yeah.
00:10:41
Speaker
It's not guns. Just to try and... <unk> Yeah, just to try and, like, get a different thing so it wasn't, like, oh a super, like, back-to-back episode, if you know what I mean.
00:10:57
Speaker
Well, here's another one. This one's a little bit different. And, okay like, caught my interest. Yeah. This is the story of gentleman by the name of William Cockeyed Cook.
00:11:16
Speaker
Oh, okay. It's his nickname. He does have, like, kind of droopy eye. no. But still, what a moniker to be called Cockeyed. Yeah, I don't love it So,
00:11:30
Speaker
um I will just be calling him William Cook or Cook. But he was born William Edward Cook, Jr., ah He was born just a couple days before Christmas on December 1928. So this was a pretty old, pretty old one.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah. 28? 1928? Yeah, 1928 he was born. And... twenty twenty eight nineteen twenty nineteen twenty eight he was born and
00:12:03
Speaker
At first, my first source said he had seven siblings, and then the other stuff I read said he had ten siblings. But either way, big, big family in the twenty s Like, can imagine?
00:12:18
Speaker
Very poor. yeah Imagine the kids are still... not not dying at that day and age so you still had a handful of them just having 10 kids like successful uh yeah the family lived in joplin missouri and sources described his early life as brutal Like, just not good. Nope.
00:12:48
Speaker
Brutal, not a great term for your childhood. No, that's like not good. um I don't really have a lot of specific details, which maybe I'm grateful for.
00:13:03
Speaker
Ten kids, I can imagine. The parents don't have that much energy and time for that many children. Nope. um It doesn't help that Laura May Cook, William's mother, she died unexpectedly when he was just five years old.
00:13:24
Speaker
Oh no. It's Bridgerton. There's eight of them when the dad Damn. Okay. Yeah. um So this left all the the kids in the care of the dad, William Cook Sr.,
00:13:41
Speaker
senior Okay. So I guess when the mom died, William and his younger sister Betty were the ones that discovered her body.
00:13:52
Speaker
oh no And her death was investigated um and ruled to be a cerebral hemorrhage.
00:14:04
Speaker
And the person that, like, did the autopsy or, like, death investigation noted that she had, quote, apparently been in good health an hour before her body was found.
00:14:17
Speaker
So, I mean, they did investigate because it seemed just maybe a little suspicious, but... They didn't really make any rulings or decide on anything.
00:14:30
Speaker
so okay maybe the husband was involved, maybe not. I don't really know. But her obituary that was released at the time had made no mention of her husband, William Cook. And ah the researcher noted that like for that time period and with how many kids they had and everything, that was unusual that like her obituary wouldn't even mention him.
00:14:55
Speaker
Okay, wouldn't wouldn't he be the one writing the obituary? I don't know. like that's what I'm like, i don't really know. Some of these details are a little weird to me.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's sort of almost like vague. It's like, so are they saying they don't like someone doesn't think it's a cerebral hemorrhage? Because couldn't that come on quite quickly? Like a stroke and that kind of stuff can just happen. Right?
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not really sure on that one. But yeah, so lots of kids. ah the will The dad, William Cook Sr., I mean, I don't know where they were living before, but he relocates all the children into an abandoned mine shaft, like mine. And that's where they live. Yep.
00:15:46
Speaker
That's where they live. I did not have predicted that you were going to say that. Absolutely not. i didn't you When I started researching this one, I was like, Jesus Christ.
00:15:58
Speaker
Okay. Just like seven years old. Living in a mineshaft. They're miners. They're not that kind of miners. Right? Fuck.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah, so they're... I don't know how exactly long they were living there with him, but he eventually just leaves one day and doesn't come back, so he abandons them in the mineshaft. Oh, Lord.
00:16:22
Speaker
and leaves them to fend for themselves. And William Cook Jr. at the time was only seven, Oh, damn. Yeah. And he had, like, younger siblings, too. so Yeah, just awful. Um...
00:16:40
Speaker
Again, I don't know how long it was until this, when the children were discovered in the mine by authorities and Cook's siblings were all placed into foster care, like, successfully.
00:16:55
Speaker
But to Cook, who was seven, he was known, or, like, they figured out he had a really bad temper. um And this was made worse by a lot of bullying and everything he endured due to his eye deformity. Okay, that sucks. yeah Probably accounts for some of that temper. Yeah. Yeah, so he was pretty like mad all the time. And then because of his attitude and then also because of the eye deformity, It stopped him from being adopted and he wasn't placed into foster care really and eventually became a ward of the state. Okay.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah. um During this time, Cook was eventually placed in the care of a woman who accepted like state money in order to care for him, but the two didn't have a good relationship.
00:17:58
Speaker
can't imagine. Again, there's not a lot of like... Yeah, not a lot of, like, details about any of this, but, I mean, it is, like, the early thirty s mid to early 30s, so.
00:18:11
Speaker
Right. Like, orphanages and shit, probably, I don't know. Yeah. mean, if they're bad now, I can imagine what they were like then, 90 years ago. ninety years ago ah So he ah he began committing these petty crimes and eventually was arrested for truancy.
00:18:32
Speaker
So like notm not showing to- that one's the one not going to school, right? It's like- Right. um It's like arrested. and It's so crazy.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah. Apparently his life must have been bad enough because at age 12 he told a judge that he would prefer to go to a reformatory over staying in like the foster care situation.
00:19:00
Speaker
Oh wow. That's pretty bad. Yeah. The judge was like okay and he spent the next several years in a detention center. before age 17 when he got transferred to the Missouri State Penitentiary. And he stayed there. Missouri.
00:19:22
Speaker
Missouri. Missouri. Which I determined I kept forgetting how to spell every time I had to type it. It kept getting underlined. I was spelling it different ways. I was like, this sucks.
00:19:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Let's just abbreviate that shit. Missouri. Missouri. Yeah, so he's at the Missouri State Penitentiary where he ends up assaulting another inmate with a baseball bat after apparently they had made a joke about his droopy eyelid.
00:19:53
Speaker
So just like relentless. Yeah. mean, it's a pretty rough go, but doesn't mean have to turn out to be a baddie.
00:20:05
Speaker
Oh, dear. Right, yeah.
00:20:09
Speaker
um Yeah, so getting into kind of the lead up to what happens, he was released from prison in 1950 and he was 21 at the time. And by this time, i guess like fairly recently, yeah he had briefly reunited with his father after being estranged from him for about a decade.
00:20:32
Speaker
and oh because he took off off yeah dad like yeah he left i know it right um during this time like cook had told his father that he had decided to quote live by the gun and roam so he was just gonna wander around with a gun that was his life's goal now that he was released from prison he's gonna wander oh my god he thinks it's bad law maybe god i mean it is kind of the time of outlaws because i saw stuff talking about like um like john dillinger and everything apparently this guy made more headlines than them and was just like damn because like i've never heard of him no not at all uh yeah wow
00:21:28
Speaker
Um, yeah, so he said he was gonna live by the gun and roam. Roam around, do whatever you wanted. He headed west from Missouri and drifted to Blythe, California, where he worked as a dishwasher until just before Christmas of 1950.
00:21:51
Speaker
After that, he headed eastward again, stopping in Texas in late December. ah like, later in December, where he got a.32 caliber cold ah semi-automatic pistol, and he got it under the name of W.E.
Cook's Final Crimes and Capture
00:22:12
Speaker
Cook, so he didn't use his real name, and he got it at this Boston dry goods store.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah, he got it, i think, under... Oh yeah, I guess. It says like under the name W.E. Cook, but those are his initials, I guess, so I didn't even even try to hide.
00:22:31
Speaker
we Cook. I'm not William Cook, I'm W.E. Cook, get it straight. I'm Wee Cook. Yeah, you didn't try very hard. Imagine just like buying a gun at like a...
00:22:46
Speaker
a dry goods store, but I mean, i was in the States and I'm pretty sure I saw guns in a certain department of Walmart. So, like, fuck off. ah Oh, yeah, it's so weird. and It's weird to think about. Yeah.
00:22:58
Speaker
I think that was in Montana. Anyway. He gets this gun at in El Paso, Texas. um Then December that's when shit starts go down and there' is Quite a bit of it that happened in not a short but also not a long period of time.
00:23:24
Speaker
So, it' said yeah. um His crime spree begins with the kidnapping of an auto mechanic named Lee Archer.
00:23:36
Speaker
of game Yeah, so Cook had been, like, hitchhiking and this Lee Archer had pulled over and was going to give him a ride.
00:23:47
Speaker
And i think it was when they were pulled over, or maybe he got him to pull over again after getting in the car, but a Cook robbed Archer of about $100 at gunpoint and forced Archer into the trunk of his own car.
00:24:06
Speaker
oh mean. Yeah, and the... That guy, Lee Archer, was able to escape shortly afterward after forcing the truck trunk open with a tire iron. Crikey.
00:24:23
Speaker
So, I mean, he got away. so what why did he want this mechanic? I'm so confused. he He just... He's... No reason. None of these are for any particular reason.
00:24:34
Speaker
He's just... out there abducting people. Yeah. Just wants to take out his frustrations on other people. um ge now So next thing that happens is Cook drives the car until it runs out of gas between Claremore and Tulsa, Oklahoma.
00:24:58
Speaker
And Cook's next victims were the Moser family ah consisting of The dad, Carl, age 33, his wife, Thelma, who is 29.
00:25:12
Speaker
And then their kids, Ronald, 7, Gary, who is 5, Pamela, who 3. And they were driving or they were from Illinois and were driving to New Mexico when they saw a Cook on the side of the road in Oklahoma, where he was hitchhiking again, and they stopped to offer him a ride.
00:25:36
Speaker
Oh, that's nice. Right? Because they're kind, caring people, and it's the fifty s and... They're family. Family people, yeah.
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah. Cook pulled out that.32 caliber pistol that he had, and he ordered Carl to keep driving the car. um This is really weird, but over the next three days, Cook just forces...
00:26:03
Speaker
um Carl and like the Moser family to just weave their way um aimlessly driving back towards Joplin where Cook was from.
00:26:15
Speaker
Over three days he holds them hostage. Like what? Yeah, at a stop at to refuel at a gas station, Carl Moser nearly overpowered Cook, but Cook was too strong. And like they got back in the vehicle and started driving again. That's insane.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yeah. On the third day, things come to an end when Cook just like shoots them all. Inside the car. No.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah. Including their dog. They had a dog with them. And... Why, though? That's so unnecessary. None of this is for any reason. Yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
He could have just taken their car. Yeah. Because these ones he didn't even rob. Like, didn't even say anything about that to the other He took $100 from him. That's...
00:27:22
Speaker
yeah i was not ready for that
00:27:27
Speaker
um yeah so he shoots them and their dog and dumps their bodies down a mine shaft uh either a mine shaft or a well that was like not far from the town uh yeah so like with all these things that are happening the authorities are like in the background they're picking up, um, like the vehicles being abandoned, they're finding the bodies and all that kind of stuff.
00:27:53
Speaker
Um, and they're starting to hunt for Cook. Um, he took off west again, abandoning the Moser's vehicle, uh, near Oklahoma, where it was discovered full of bullet holes and covered in blood. And the receipt for the gun that he had purchased was also found inside.
00:28:14
Speaker
so they were like okay but the bodies oh no right the mind shift yeah what the fuck yeah um yeah so he abandons the car and then cook uh stopped outside of Blythe California again ah he where he had worked as a dishwasher and he takes this ah deputy sheriff named Homer Waldrip He takes him hostage after they have a confrontation at a motel.
00:28:48
Speaker
um so I think this Homer Waldrop was like tipped off that Cook was inside the motel. And because he had lived there before, he he like knew him, knew of him and stuff. so he like knocked on the motel door.
00:29:06
Speaker
um and yeah, like Cook. And him had a confrontation and ended up with Cook and him in the police car now. um Yeah, so he makes the deputy sheriff like drive around for 40 miles.
00:29:26
Speaker
my god. I don't know what all they talk about, but Cook ends up confessing to killing the Moser family. Yeah. wow yeah ah Yeah, good crazy like this kidnapping ends with Cook sparing waldrif's life Waldrip's life, telling him to lay down in a ditch and that he planned to shoot him in the head.
00:29:58
Speaker
But instead of doing that, Cook just got back into the police car and drove away, leaving Waldrip in the desert alone. So... I cannot predict him at all. Any of this. Yeah. It's all over the place. Yeah. He couldn't spare anyone in an entire family, but then this cop was good to let go. Like,
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, he spares this guy. um Cook later said he only spared him because Cook had briefly worked with the deputy sheriff's wife and that she had been one of the only or she had, quote, treated him like a human being and had been nicer to him than anyone had ever been in his life.
00:30:42
Speaker
So he got spared because his wife was nice to Cook when he worked as a dishwasher.
00:30:49
Speaker
That's so fucking sad. But you still took him, like, fucking kidnapped him. Like, yeah. Very confusing set of morals or whatever you, if you can call it that. like Yeah, there's no rhyme or reason to any of this.
00:31:10
Speaker
No. Yeah. So, yeah, he gets let go. Cook then kidnaps this guy named Robert Dewey. Dewey?
00:31:22
Speaker
A traveling salesman from Seattle after trying to, ah they have a bit of like a scuffle or confrontation where Dewey tries to wrestle the gun away from Cook during which Dewey ends up getting shot.
00:31:39
Speaker
And... oh God, Deputy Dewey. No. Yeah. No, this time he's a traveling salesman. Right. I guess this all happened when one of them was driving because the car then veers off the road into the desert. ah where yeah and Dewey's like really badly injured, so I guess Cook just decides to shoot him in the head. Oh my god.
00:32:12
Speaker
Don't you like hate it when they're in the movie and they're like wrestling the driver of the car? or Worse yet, the fucking flyer of the plane. The pilot of the plane.
00:32:23
Speaker
What are you doing? um So dewey's Dewey's body was found in Sheriff Waldrop's car. Which I find this part confuses me so much. Because i'm like, where was... ah So like, he leaves Sheriff Waldrop.
00:32:47
Speaker
in the desert, drives off with his car, and then kidnaps this salesman. And they're in the salesman's car, and then he shoots the salesman and leaves his body in the sheriff's car, which gets abandoned near Ogilvy, California.
00:33:08
Speaker
where they find it. But then Cook takes Dewey's car, the salesman's car, and drives it to Mexicali, Mexico, where he abandons it there.
00:33:24
Speaker
So like, you're one person, and you're in different... like cities how are you coordinating driving and like put getting this person that you kill after into the other person's car that you had before that you did and then you go back a different city and pick up the other car again and get in it until it but abandon it in another place in mexico hmm and and your shirt they didn't just like fuck up instead saying like
00:33:57
Speaker
He just got one person's car and then when wanted to get rid of that when he got into the next one. Yeah, it specifically says that they find the salesman. So he kidnaps the sheriff, ah leaves him in the desert, takes his vehicle, takes the salesman, kills him, puts his body in the cop's car that he had, like, kidnapped a few days before or something. And then, like,
00:34:28
Speaker
leaves that and then gets back into the salesman's car and takes off with it. Which I'm like, why? Like, how do you coordinate that unless you're like taking the bus in between? Like, but we don't have any other sightings like in between any of these that people talk about.
00:34:44
Speaker
so I don't know. I don't really get it i just He didn't just take the salesman in the sheriff's car to his house and then swap out the vehicles for the new victim's vehicle. Maybe, but like if you found an abandoned police car somewhere, like wouldn't that catch attention?
00:35:05
Speaker
i If they know he took off with the police car because the guy lived. Well, that's going to get found eventually. i don't know. I don't really... Because all of this is happening over the span of like three weeks. So it's not like a day or two. Like this is three weeks this is happening over. Like there's a lot of time in between where it's like, what's he doing? so yeah, a lot of weird stuff. on Yeah, so he he's now in Mexico. um law enforcement in the southwest of the US were on the lookout for Cook. um They had started organizing what ended up to be, at the time, the largest manhunt in the United States history. Okay, wow.
00:35:53
Speaker
Which is why I mentioned like John Dillinger and all those bank robber guys and everything, because this manhunt was actually bigger than all of theirs. And he got more publicity, and there was more like talk about newspapers and everything about Cook than there was about the other guys, which is kind of crazy.
00:36:13
Speaker
He was like a celebrity at the time. Everybody was on the lookout. ah Yeah, so this huge manhunt is happening or being organized.
00:36:24
Speaker
They end up with about 2,000 law enforcement officers. And then on top of that, there's thousands of other police and then game wardens and private citizens that are also joining the search.
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, so Cook, while that's all happening, they're searching for him. Cook leaves Mexico again and goes back for, I think, the third time to Blythe, uh, where he kidnaps these two guys, uh, James Burke and Forrest, uh, Dameron, or Dameron, uh, who were on a hunting trip, uh,
00:37:10
Speaker
And he forces them to drive back across the Mexican border to Santa Rosalia. So like he leaves Mexico, kidnaps these two guys and then be like, hey, drive me to Mexico.
00:37:23
Speaker
Like, what the fuck? I don't get it. You were in Mexico. Does he even know? I don't know. what I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? You were in Mexico. You leave Mexico and then be like, hey, I'm kidnap somebody. Take me to Mexico. Okay.
00:37:40
Speaker
Or like, it's like you you're at the point where you want to get caught or something. It's so weird. Something. It's so weird. Just so risky. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:52
Speaker
um Yeah, it ends up being very, very risky because in the town of Santa Rosalia, Mexico, a local police chief named Luis Pera, under like unlikely circumstances, he immediately recognizes Cook.
00:38:13
Speaker
and like confronts him and able to confiscate cook's gun like snatches it off his waist and like detains him and arrests him like on the spot so like oh my god finally someone's paying attention like come on love to see you're on that list yeah like my god and this puts yeah this puts an end to cook's 22 days of terror Um, or, like, almost three weeks, which spanned from December 30th, 1950 to January 21st, 1951, during which Cook had killed six people and injured another three.
00:38:56
Speaker
Wow, long, long spree. Yeah, right? And that's one of the things that intrigued me about this, because, like, none of the... There was no motives, other than maybe the one being, like, I want $100.
00:39:11
Speaker
But he's just making people drive him around and then killing them. And then it's like, but you're driving from one city to another and then a couple days later kidnapping somebody else to drive you back to the city you were just at and then abandoning their cars when they run out of gas. But like making people buy gas because they're driving too long in their own car that you kidnapped them in Like it's just, yeah.
00:39:41
Speaker
It's so weird. are like Like, just kick them out of the car and kidnap and take their car. If you need the car, just kick them out of the car. Yeah. So weird. Carjack. Don't kidnap and murder. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:57
Speaker
oh Yeah. So since Mexico at the time, because that's where he was arrested, 1951, it lacked a formal extradition treaty with the U.S. It didn't exist at the time. So this was also a little weird. um What happened is the Mexican authorities... Yeah, they just basically, the articles all said they extradited him by the Mexican authorities just walking him, like, physically to the border crossing.
00:40:28
Speaker
Oh. And then having the American authorities meet them at the other side of the border crossing, and they literally just shoved him over the border. Like, on the ground. Here you go. oh like where's the screenplay for this that's amazing it's just like a yeah hostage exchange range just like just like shove him over the border and you're like here's your extradition it's like jesus um yeah we we were at the ah u.s s canadian border by accident oh no just tired pat yeah it was because we had been driving for a long time well pad had been driving for a long time because we were going to visit
00:41:09
Speaker
driving to New Brunswick for Christmas or something like when rain was really little that one time we drove and then it's like I'm like kind of half awake like I think that said uh you know United States border in French or whatever like it's Estes Uni like you're like I think that might have said and then it's like all of a sudden we're in this area and they're like are you trying to cross the border we're like no I think we're a little lost to go but f friin that's the thing this place in New Brunswick yeah there's not enough signs and places there's no way to turn around but once you start going yeah i think they got kind of like coming yeah stuck beyond the barriers and then they're all like well where's the doctor like Rain was like two so she they were like where's her passport we don't we don't have any and documentation for this child I just had it was very like
00:42:04
Speaker
It felt dicey for a while where I was like, ah you know, yeah I always feel good. Like pat Pat's good in emergencies. Don't get me wrong. Like, and he's going like, I'm a mechs army. Here's my, like my ID. Like, you know, like we're, we're good, yo. We're just literally like trying to go visit some family. And then it's like, it can be scary. Right. Or like one time we were going into Maine and that was when rain started.
00:42:29
Speaker
was old enough to make sarcastic comments and then like we go across the board and do some shopping with mom and rain and then like so we're like for some reason i think they pulled us into a room or something and then we're like just sitting there waiting and then she's like looking at pictures on the wall of these like american um politicians and stuff and going like happened to that trump and i'm like shut the fuck up and then thank god you know not this last administration or last few years or that would have been even fucking scarier but yeah it's like you don't want to fuck around oh you keep your mouth shut it's like the airport yeah you don't want to joke about having a bomb yeah i was just gonna say
00:43:17
Speaker
You don't say hi to your friend Jack. Hi, Jack! Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. But I thought that was a nice funny little thing. They're like, we don't have formal extradition so we're gonna coordinate with you guys and we're gonna take him to the border and we're just gonna shove him over the border and then you guys can pick him up.
00:43:41
Speaker
It's the Las Vegas wedding ceremony of extraditions. Yeah. It's official! Yeah. So they take him into custody immediately. Nice. And I guess when they had originally arrested him or whatever, he had like four guns on him.
00:43:59
Speaker
So I don't know how he got the other three. There's made no mention of it. Jeez. And he's like back and forth across the border already. Like, what are you doing?
00:44:10
Speaker
How lax was our security? Well, it's like the 50s. Nothing bad they thought could happen, really. I know. We have the, famously the largest undefended border in the world with the U.S. Like, yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
That's interesting. um Yeah, so he he's now back in the U.S. and I guess he gets put into the custody of the FBI. no, they're dead. Sorry.
00:44:39
Speaker
And, uh, because he had kidnapped the Moser family and, t like, forced them across straight state lines, it became that federal, like a federal kidnapping case.
00:44:53
Speaker
Oh, okay. And he was being, um, charged pretty heavily, in order to avoid a possible death sentence. Cook pled guilty to five counts of kidnapping.
00:45:06
Speaker
um And the guilty plea was permitted by the judge due to disputes over Cook's mental health.
00:45:17
Speaker
There was, like, some assessments and stuff that they did. One psychiatrist thought he was sane and a psychopath, while another one thought he was insane.
Cultural Impact: 'The Hitchhiker'
00:45:29
Speaker
back and forth, but... yeah i find that very feeble when it's like clearly deliberate their actions and and yeah premeditated and stuff like that or like you know what i mean like obviously they knew what they were doing like yeah i mean insane maybe because like in just the way of like you're a bad criminal yeah we don't know what your motive is but you're fucked up sorry all right
00:46:00
Speaker
ay ah Yeah, so he is found guilty. He gets sentenced to like 300 years in prison for the deaths of the Moser family members. He's sentenced for that in Oklahoma. And um another name drop, he is, ah he was supposed to be sent to Alcatraz.
00:46:25
Speaker
so Oh man. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. um But after word got around that he could be up for parole after only serving 20 years of his 300, there was a lot of public outrage.
00:46:44
Speaker
and Yeah. me Yeah, he was ah taken out of Oklahoma and sent to California so he could stand trial for the murder of that salesman, Robert Dewey.
00:46:58
Speaker
And they were not as lenient as they had been in Oklahoma because he was sentenced to death for killing Robert Dewey.
00:47:11
Speaker
damn and then they stuck him in alcatraz they're like now we're in california i don't know that's crazy i don't know where he oh yeah i do know where he went so um oh okay he doesn't end up going to he doesn't end up going to alcatraz um where he was supposed to he goes to somewhere just as famous you also know um but first wait wait okay
00:47:38
Speaker
was trying to think of other jails around there, I guess. Because you always like to know, and they did mention it, his last meal consisted of fried chicken, ah French fried potatoes. i don't know if that literally just means French fries. Peas.
00:47:54
Speaker
try choose peas. i don't want peas in the last meal. want to eat vegetables. im Really? can die.
00:48:03
Speaker
ah He ate, yeah, fried chicken, french fried potatoes, peas, pumpkin pie, coffee, and milk. That was his last meal. Oh, wow. that is, I do, i do find those things interesting and, like, have watched a few of those.
00:48:20
Speaker
you know youtubers where they're like what would be your last meal and also then one of the podcasts i listen to where it's like what's your dream meal which seems a little less morbid in my opinion but sometimes people come out they're like if it was my last meal and they're like no no no it's not your last meal it's your dream real in the dream restaurant and this guy's a genie and you like They're like, oh, I want to eat this, but like I'm lactose intolerant. They're like, doesn't it matter. Dream meal. So it's really fun that way.
00:48:52
Speaker
Oh, and I'm going to listen to the episode that has that lady um from, there's a bunch of episodes I hadn't listened to, but because they're British, they have the Philomena Kunk, Kunk on Earth lady, Diane Morgan. was like, I haven't listened to this app.
00:49:08
Speaker
She's so funny. Yeah, I'll be thinking of you. Okay, perfect. Pump up the jam, pump it up. Oh, it's actually just so fun because you know how many times on podcasts people just start talking about things they want to eat? Well, this is at least dedicated to that already.
00:49:27
Speaker
podcasters they're always hungry why are they always hungry i just had supper i'm good i know so did i i can still talk about food though don't get me wrong you get me started when you said french fried potatoes i was like yeah what do you mean what about them fried chicken what about it ah i just made chicken breast and garlic bread and I'm going to use that leftovers, make some chicken and Caesar salad. Ooh, baby.
00:49:58
Speaker
Oh, no. Kelsey's going to yod. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. and don't have too much more. ah Yeah. So that was his last meal. And he was executed on December 1952 at San Quentin.
00:50:14
Speaker
um at san quentin I was gonna guess San Quentin! I was trying to think of other prisons there. Honestly. Honest to God. Okay.
00:50:26
Speaker
um Yeah, he was executed there in ah apparently the prison's like famous gas chamber. oh gross.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't know it was like famous. The article was like, yeah, it's a famous gas chamber. I was like why? Exactly. It's kind of like ah you've heard that there's like a famous...
00:50:48
Speaker
electric chair i feel like somewhere in the south and they called it like old sparky and the guy and it's just like it had so many execute I don't know yeah it's just I don't like it yeah um yeah so when William Cook was executed he would have been close to his next birthday but yeah he was he was he was only 23 years old oh my god Yeah. That would have been his champagne birthday. have been turning 20 wait, no, he was 23. Yeah, he would have been 24 in another 13 days or 11 days, which also kind of broke my heart.
00:51:30
Speaker
I'm like, I get it. He killed people and everything. And what he did not have a good upbringing and sounds like he was bullied through his entire life, continuing to adulthood.
00:51:41
Speaker
and didn't have anybody there other than that the cop's wife who was nice to him one time in his life. It's almost a direct reflection on how their system is poorly based on, what do they call it? a Not reformation, but retribution, like punishment. like Yeah.
00:52:05
Speaker
It's not there to fix anything. just about, oh, well, after it happens, after they kill a bunch of people, that will kill them. It's like this is not working. like If he hadn't gotten some more support as a young kid or something, some intervention. Maybe.
00:52:20
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. So like, that's what happened. i have a little bit of the aftermath because this has also kind of been interesting. Yeah.
00:52:32
Speaker
So just like I kind of mentioned, but he's kind of ah like barely remembered today. nobody really talks about him, even though it seems like gonna saw nineteen yeah in the a sensation in his time.
00:52:50
Speaker
he he was like huge ah he was a sensation in his time ah most notably or one of the most notable things that happened was less than a year after his execution there was a movie that was released based on his killing spree which is kind of crazy for like the 1950s yeah it would have been like one of the first movies based on a killing spree or like based on a real crime that would like not the first but one of them like
00:53:27
Speaker
ah yeah it was also notable that this movie that was released was led by this actress who had turned and like changed her career path into more of a director standpoint her name is ida lupino um yeah so female director decided to to his story um the movie was titled the hitchhiker and it was released by lupino's independent production company the filmmakers which is kind of cool um if you look up ida lupino um i guess there's no picture in the drive but she looks like typical 50s like hollywood starlight like oh yeah like leading lady it's crazy but a um this is yeah uh the movie is notable not only because it's described yeah yeah um the movie is notable not only because it is described as a better than average noir film but also because it's one of the first ever films made in hollywood that was so clearly based on a killer whose crimes were so recent
00:54:42
Speaker
Because again, he was executed like a year after the crimes and then this movie came out less than a year after that. So it very recent.
00:54:54
Speaker
um we're we're in more used to that now where like a documentary could come out sorry like yeah not long after the events but still crazy we've been like but they're definitely oh the fact yeah sorry um the fact that it was like a female um like leading it and um i guess in like the noir like crime movies and everything female Directors were not common and then they're saying like it's also notable that this movie is actually just really good in general.
00:55:32
Speaker
for like a noir film so yeah but they did they did change some stuff like it's not wholly accurate it mostly focuses on the two hunters that he kidnapped later on and like the ones he tried to the ones that drove in him to mexico before he was arrested um it focuses primarily on them i think um yeah
00:56:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's not like we weren't obsessed with morbid stuff before then a society and whatnot. But yeah, that's interesting. The first real almost true crime doc, if you will. Or like, yeah, one of the adaptations. Yeah. um Yeah, which I feel like became really popular in like, the 70s and with like a bunch of those ones but yeah um lot of killers i did decide to look i did decide to look up the movie a little bit on um wikipedia and this is just like a little blurb they had um saying that um i won't get into the plot or anything but they had saying that the hitchhiker was the first mainstream released american film of its type like a noir that was directed by a woman
00:56:59
Speaker
It was selected in 1998 for preservation in the United States National Film Registry as being culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant.
00:57:12
Speaker
my chat okay i was like, I might need to watch this movie. Might not hurt to give it a go. um and the only other thing because i had i thought there was going to be more little like don't know if i want to call them fun facts um i didn't know how to end this case but it was just like oh i'll start a miscellaneous category and like anything i don't know where to put i'll just put here and it only ended up with one point i do that one thing in it
00:57:42
Speaker
And that was that Cook had hard luck tattooed on the like the tops of his fingers on his left hand.
00:57:53
Speaker
um Like on on the knuckles. So it said like hard and then right underneath it said like luck. Oh my god, that's confusing. I'm sorry. Yeah. Why does it not on both knuckles? Both hands? I know, why does it say, like, hard on one hand luck on the other? No, it all says it on one hand.
00:58:11
Speaker
Um, there are pictures. Terrible. Um, yeah.
00:58:19
Speaker
Oh, are they okay? Yeah, and that's it. um
00:58:25
Speaker
the end goodbye dessert picture of the knuckles there is okay i don't know if there's like i think i saved a couple pictures of them um oh there's one and there's also a picture of the movie the movie poster says like who will be the next victim you and then it has like a gun in a hand and then like two people driving And they both reached for the gun, the gun. I don't know. i I've never seen Hamilton, but I've heard of the song. Sorry.
00:59:01
Speaker
oh That's not Hamilton. Isn't it? That's, uh, no. That's, um... Pardon me.
00:59:11
Speaker
think Chicago? is it? Oh, then I must have misunderstood somebody talking about a different, um, place. Because, like said, have not seen...
00:59:23
Speaker
I've not seen it. Oh, I see this. Who will be his next victim? You. You? oh my God. This is so like, Uncle Sam wants you. No, like it's. Oh, great. That's the movie po poster, but kind of propaganda. Like, you know, they just have a certain book from a certain time.
00:59:43
Speaker
And there's a gun pointing. Oh my God. yeah so dramatic it's all in red too it's like okay it's not hard to read the hard luck because the hard is on one the top knuckle and the luck is on the bottom knuckle so i can actually just like yeah i i said it's like a little weird i know little prison-y um I mean, they're well done. It looks when there's pictures of it up closer and you're like, oh, the lines are really clean. They're really straight. Like, okay. I don't want to judge anyone's tattoos. Yeah. Like that's thing with me. Like, I don't mind thinking about getting one, but then I'm like, it's just such a big decision. I'll make the wrong decision. It's like, you know, what you like when you're like 13, you're like, it won't be the same thing I like later. You know what I mean? You're just like, it's so much pressure.
01:00:37
Speaker
it's too much yeah oh all right quick break yeah i gotta go get my charger yes my laptop's gonna beep at me any second i know i already had a charge point all right we'll be right back
01:01:15
Speaker
It's Tuesday and you're listening to Murder Unscripted.
Casual Conversations and Promotions
01:01:23
Speaker
My name's Ed. For the past two decades, I've been producing true crime content for some of your favorite networks like Hulu, Oxygen, and of course, Investigation Discovery. And I'm Melissa, Ed's bestie and walking, talking true crime database.
01:01:35
Speaker
We've combined my behind-the-scenes insight with Melissa's morbid curiosity to bring you a podcast that immerses you in the true crime genre like never before. We highlight victims' cases and bring you exclusive insight from the people who lived through them, with a touch of humor to lighten in the darkest stories.
01:01:51
Speaker
This is Murder Unscripted. Dun dun dun!
01:02:31
Speaker
You're listening to Psychology of the Strange, a podcast exploring the psychology behind fear, folklore, the uncanny, and the unexplained.
01:02:44
Speaker
This show is brought to you by the Darkcast Network. Welcome to the dark side.
01:02:52
Speaker
This winter, the world gets a little stranger. Season two of Psychology of the Strange is here. We're traveling into the season of long nights, distorted shadows, and the old stories people used to whisper to survive the dark.
01:03:10
Speaker
This time, we're exploring winter-born omens, creatures that came from the shoreline, mischief spirits who slip into homes, and the ancient rituals that blurred the line between the living and the dead.
01:03:24
Speaker
And as always, we'll step inside the psychology beneath the folklore. Why certain stories survive. Why winter changes perception.
01:03:35
Speaker
And what these legends reveal about fear, identity, and the edges of the human mind. If you're ready for a season of liminal spaces, uncanny children, hollow shadows, and the strange logic of the cold months, then welcome back.
01:03:55
Speaker
Psychology of the Strange Season 2 begins now.
01:04:25
Speaker
being janky.
01:04:29
Speaker
It's like recording two, zero minutes, zero seconds. I'm like, yeah. You didn't. dare
01:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. It's like it's counting it as a glitched recording. and I don't know. Weird. Makes no sense. i guess this is recording three then.
01:04:49
Speaker
Who knows?
01:04:52
Speaker
Alright, and we are back for part two back back back again oh no one that used eminem in this scary movie i think it was that before the perfect uh the perfect song choice saying we need a little more controversy i was like yes because we were watching a scream seven so i was like is this an ad for the movie gonna watch and then it's like no it's the trailer see i wanted to talk to you about it before because when you said you were going last week that's when the trailer dropped and they're like it previewed before scream 7 the trailer for scary movie 6 or whatever and i was just like oh that means alanna saw the trailer and i was like i can talk to her about the trailer if i can't talk to her about the scream movie and then i was when i texted you or you were like we haven't seen it yet and i was like damn it
01:05:55
Speaker
It was disappointing. We were, yeah, had to postpone, just whatever. Stupid mortgage had to come out and that stuff. So then I was like, okay, what should be able to do it by next week?
01:06:09
Speaker
Ah, yes. I liked it. Um, I've also told my friend Anita, who just retired to go watch weapons she said something and I was like oh that reminds me of a unit and then i was like you haven't seen that yet oh yeah Stephen King and shit so I was like oh you like the scary movies don't you it's like oh okay yeah yeah it's pretty good might be another good year for them hopefully so I hope so I mean I'm trying to catch up on the ones from the last couple of years yeah
01:06:46
Speaker
Oh yeah, I'm sure there's still some I haven't seen. but yeah they They're definitely hit or miss. When you see them on streaming, you're like, well, haven't I heard about this one? Because it's shit.
01:07:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I find even a lot of like bad ah horror movies are still fairly decent. Even just to have on in the background.
01:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of like they say, unless it's horrible. like ah Movies are just good, entertaining, whatever, usually. At least if you can get lost in them for an hour or so, then whatever. Yeah. Why why do movies have to be great? Why do they have to be a 10 out of 10? Sometimes you can watch a watch a 5 out of 10. And then like, well, that was something. I'm like...
01:07:41
Speaker
Dumb American audience? Yes, please. Give it to me. Some stupid comedy. i love it.
01:07:50
Speaker
All right. um And yet we decided we wanted to do a true crime podcast. but Such is the dichotomy of man. We contain multitudes, right? Yeah.
01:08:02
Speaker
Oh, my God.
Dunblane Massacre Introduction
01:08:07
Speaker
I effectively picked... a what became known as the Dunblane Massacre.
01:08:13
Speaker
that gives you any indication of yeah how horrible it will be. So, big old trigger or warning for child death in this one.
01:08:25
Speaker
So, that's not something you feel comfortable with right now. Maybe it's one people could sit out, but you can't, Kelsey. God damn it! I was gonna say...
01:08:37
Speaker
oh my god they used to do that on uh crimes and consequences all the time they'd be like no someone's those fours to listen to it but you guys can leave
01:08:49
Speaker
yeah i mean a lot times yeah i give credit to people that can listen any true crime because sometimes i'm just not in the freaking headspace for a lot of it yeah yeah um Okay, anyway, so this begins, this is a, Dunblane is a town in an area called Stirling in central Scotland.
01:09:16
Speaker
Okay. I'm wearing my Scotland shirt that my sister got. Alana's flashing me. There's a dragon and says Scotland. yeah I have to pull up the Scotland part it's the bottom of my tits right now. ah It is very cute.
01:09:33
Speaker
um Thanks, Ressa. I got some shirts. That and that chili pepper shirt for Christmas. Oh, cool. Very cool. Sorry. I am so bad at avoiding these. Okay. So we'll start with little history. It's just a little small um area. ah So, uh, an old town founded in the seventh century, which is not something you hear about here.
01:10:00
Speaker
Yeah. Very old. yeah just, just a little, a little old Not very. Casually, like, some Romans were in the area. Yeah.
01:10:13
Speaker
Like, made some camps, and there you have it. Years later, Scottish town. Practically, practically a baby.
01:10:23
Speaker
I know, right? So funny.
01:10:30
Speaker
Just north of Dunblane in this Ardok place, you can look and still see the best preserved Roman fort in the UK. So there you go, guys who think about the Roman Empire all the time. Just kidding. Yeah.
01:10:44
Speaker
think about history all the time, too. It's Victorian eras and bustling skirts and things. No. yeah oh yeah But yeah, this one's super old. It's named after St. Blaine, who had a base at a place called Kingarth?
01:11:03
Speaker
Isle of Butte. And he brought brought Christianity there in the 600s. So just all that to say, you know, this whole town has some roots.
01:11:15
Speaker
A cathedral that dates back to the 12th century and still stands. It's crazy. It predates dirt. yeah I said it predates dirt. It's older than dirt. Older than dirt. And there's a Dunblane primary school, which comprised of grades one to six.
01:11:41
Speaker
That's in the town. So it's like an elementary school. We would call it here. right Yeah. Um, and it is taking place at a time when I would have still been in like elementary school. It's the morning of March 13th, 1996. Ooh, this could have come out on the March 13th if we hadn't been doing every week. we But obviously I picked it because I was like, oh, that's close to my birthday. What's this case? And you know, it was just like Dunblane massacre. And then I was like, oh my God, primary school shooting. So.
01:12:17
Speaker
That's why it's seriously fucked up. um But I've never heard of it. i had never... like No, I haven't either.
01:12:30
Speaker
know. it's just sad that there's so many... Normally it's like high schools or colleges and stuff that it's more common in. Yeah, typically.
01:12:42
Speaker
Other than maybe... What was that one in the U.S.? Sandy Hook? Was that a younger... Like a middle school or something? I can't remember. Honestly, I try not to like learn about them too much. Well, and honestly, their they they are so frequent. It's hard to keep up with the different ones in the States. Honestly.
01:13:07
Speaker
But I just remember there was one where like then when the kids got older, they were like, this is fucked up. It's like still happening. And you're like... Yeah, what are we doing? Yeah, they were one of the first ones. It's like 20 years later and it's gotten worse instead of like better.
01:13:24
Speaker
It's yeah, it's crazy. if think how far back like Columbine was and some of those. Yeah.
01:13:35
Speaker
So in the morning and between
01:13:41
Speaker
A man entered the parking lot of the school and fired off a few shots. And he had prepped by cutting the telephone cables to the school. And was wearing um four different handguns. Yeah.
01:13:59
Speaker
I thought that was pretty sinister. Yeah, that's brutal. and he was He was prepared. He was literally wearing, we'd call them here like more like earmuffs, but sometimes in in Britain I've heard them called ear defenders. Like, literal, like, well, if you go to the shooting range, what would you put on like like to the sound?
01:14:23
Speaker
um So yeah, he totally had that, so like his poor little ears didn't even get hurt. And he had over 740 rounds of ammo as well. Damn.
01:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He went directly inside and towards the gym area where Gwen Mayer had her class of 29 children aged, kindergarten aged children.
01:14:47
Speaker
Sorry.
01:14:51
Speaker
um He shot into the gym and wounded Eileen Harold, a phys ed teacher, and Mary Blake, a teaching assistant. They managed to pull a group of kids into a sort of cover to shelter despite their and devastating and injuries.
01:15:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like, they have, like, little, like, supply cupboards in, like, gyms where they have, like, extras for... I was gonna say sports balls. Sports equipment.
01:15:25
Speaker
Exactly. The big thing where they... The cage box. You throw the balls in that area. Yeah, so I think they were able to get... a few in there.
01:15:37
Speaker
There was another adult and a student who peeked into the doorway of the gym and when they were like shot at and toward they retreated immediately. um Damn.
01:15:51
Speaker
And in the chaos the shooter left the gym and began shooting into and towards the library cloakroom
01:16:01
Speaker
um there were a lot of kids in there they were all lying on the floor and he sprayed bullets into that room as well and they were lying on the floor of but um like a mobile classroom which i don't know i had one of those in my school yeah where it was like kind of like a little trailer add-on thing yeah we call ours the portables oh okay yeah your class is in the portables
01:16:32
Speaker
poor school things maybe it was my it was my high school there they had the portables and um the well my elementary school also ended up getting portables added to it yeah um a couple years after i left or actually partway through me being in there they like expanded it and then they ended up just having to like permanently expand it and then my high school had like here quite a few portables um that had been there for a long time already oh that is strange just of the expanding population yeah
01:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. I just remember we seemed like the poor school and we didn't have a gym and we had to bus to the nearby other elementary school to go to their gym instead. We always had a gym. My high school had two gyms.
01:17:26
Speaker
And one time we did an active shooter drill in my high school and it happened during gym class. So I remember hiding in gym class in the secondary room. So like the one gym,
01:17:43
Speaker
second gym you could only access going through the first gym yeah yeah it was much much smaller it was just because they had so many kids in my high school that they had to have like two gym classes going at the same time almost so oh yeah yeah i feel like when they had the the drill like they had to go into the smaller one and then another another time we had to go into the supply like closet that was inside the smaller gym. Damn.
01:18:15
Speaker
So I was like, oh damn, like i can I can picture this i yeah have no personal experience with it. It's like other people being like, now my kids are having to go through this. And I'm like, wow. It's actually when even though you're given a heads up, it's fucking scary. Yeah, I i would imagine.
01:18:35
Speaker
um It can last sometimes like half an hour to an hour. i remember one of the drills we did, they like came and they like were yelling at us through the door and like banging on it and like trying to unlock it And even though you're in fucking high school, it's yeah, it was scary.
01:18:57
Speaker
oh yeah. It's simulating a very real experience. Yeah. Yeah. That is gross. We only had like, what, the the things, or some sort of truck thing they had for the, it was like a fire truck thing, or like it was simulating a,
01:19:15
Speaker
a house fire and like if you had asthma you might not be able to do because it had like fake smoke and stuff and you just like crawl through as if you were escaping like a fire that's what was happening in my era yeah damn i mean they they should still do that it was kind of interesting they're like we shouldn't we shouldn't intentionally cause kids lung damage even during a uh well they're always traumatizing them about something i feel like the generation before me it was all the here's the drunk driving videos and they'd show them all the high school chair there was a fire like really nearby in the neighborhood i could see it coming home last night driving and then like oh damn
01:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, the fire I had to like, fire one fire truck went and then I was pulling out of the store and there was another fire truck and I'm like, oh, they're going towards my neighborhood. And I could see the black smoke and then like, I was telling Pat and we came upstairs and we could see like flames and stuff and they were getting it under control.
01:20:16
Speaker
And then like, I got like a notification. Neighborhood app. There was a fire in your area. I'm like, yeah, that was like hours ago. It was like the next morning. I was like, thanks. Wow.
01:20:28
Speaker
but still i had um they showed us some like the mothers against drunk driving we got like a couple videos but we got the thing that will forever be ingrained in my mind um um there was a girl i think it was this was in like grade eight or nine um she was leaving her mom a voicemail or something and oh no the voicemail caught like all the sounds of the vehicle crashing and her dying and they played it in the gymnasium for all of us to hear and listen to her like crashing the car and fucking dying and i'll never forget that that was like traumatizing
01:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't put that on our fucking yeah podcast. Not without huge trigger warning. like my God. Yeah, well, you had to get, like, you had to sign permission slips to, like, attend the assemblies and stuff. And remember my friend. They're like, we know we're fucked up for doing I remember my friend ended up having a panic attack. And, like, another friend just couldn't stop crying.
01:21:46
Speaker
Like, the whole assembly. and Yeah. switch phone. Like, fucked up. Right? Oh, did you guys want to hear someone's last words today? no thank you.
01:21:59
Speaker
Yeah. thought we were going to school. Right? Thought were going to have an assembly and be like, don't drink and try. They're like, here's... Yeah.
01:22:10
Speaker
yeah was like, what the hell?
01:22:15
Speaker
Ugh. Yeah. No, it sucks that, like, by necessity, the kids know in a lot of places train for it because of these things Yeah, it's wild.
01:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:22:31
Speaker
But yeah, these poor kids, too. oh yeah, so this... Okay, i was almost done. that This is almost the end of the trigger warning sort of details, you know, not really... That detailed, but still. Oh, okay. the The shooter sprayed bullets down on the children lying on the floor of the mobile classroom.
01:22:54
Speaker
He then went back to the gym, grabbed another gun, and shot himself. The whole massacre took less than five minutes in total, apparently. Wow. Very quick.
01:23:05
Speaker
That's the thing, it can be so quick. Yeah. with that type of weapon which is the whole gun control argument we don't need weapons that kill people that fast yeah who okay oh yeah it's not even i agree oh i was gonna say that's something that maybe sounds insensitive doesn't even make a good movie you're just gonna shoot a bunch of people to death what's the where is the there's no there's no challenge You know, even, uh... It's not fair. Yeah.
01:23:45
Speaker
It's a complete... Yeah.
Gun Control Measures in the UK
01:23:49
Speaker
Complete loss of life. um There 15 victims, mostly children, who died on sight, while 15 more were injured because of the attack.
01:24:01
Speaker
And one more victim later died in hospital.
01:24:05
Speaker
It could have been a lot worse, though. I'm sure...
01:24:11
Speaker
yeah it's five minutes though like yeah that's so quick you can't do anything in five minutes no even if he hadn't have cut like the phone lines or whatever like can't do anything that quickly okay and at the time not they didn't have a lot of precedent and i'm sure they didn't have drills going on for this because i didn't when i was in school in the 90s in the like a small town in a commonwealth country so i'm sure they didn't but um the country was in shock police uh arrived from nearby sterling they saw the bodies piled up and the wounded still whimpering in pain
01:24:58
Speaker
sorry Chief Constable for Central Scotland, William Wilson, broke down describing the grisly mass murder scene. Ambulance crew chief, John McEwen, said the gym was a medieval vision of hell.
01:25:14
Speaker
Seeing the gun beside the killer's body, he admits to feeling an overwhelming desire to mutilate the body.
01:25:22
Speaker
Yeah. I'd feel some rage, I think. don't know. yeah but so one thing i could never forgive is like people that do stuff like this the slaughter of complete innocence yeah yeah that has absolutely nothing to do with like anything but his own shit that's what i'm gonna tell you right here yeah there's a lot of ones these elementary school children have to do with you
01:26:00
Speaker
just more trigger warning stuff that's gonna relate to other things that gonna make you mad about things that are still happening in today's day and age selfish gains of his own and perversions so oh is he a pedophile buckle up yes indeed i believe he was oh body mutilate his body. his body i'm so sorry. i picked it, but like, it's like things people talking about things they're listening to now about Epstein files. And they're like, they're like, I feel terrible, but I feel like I have to bear witness in a way, you know, like I have to, for the people that aren't here anymore to hear their stories and stuff. and you're like, ah, fuck, that sucks.
01:26:54
Speaker
yeah
01:26:59
Speaker
Ron Taylor, headmaster, said evil visited us yesterday. Sorry. I'm joking.
01:27:12
Speaker
The front side of the school was flooded with, them you know, a an at like, what's the word when you have, like, ah a shrug or a gas? Yeah.
01:27:23
Speaker
Yeah, that too. Stuffies, bouquets, messages of sorrow, flowers,
01:27:33
Speaker
messages that said, may God take better care of you than this world ever did and things like that.
01:27:40
Speaker
The Prime Minister of England, John Major, came to the community of just under 8,000. So that's how small it is. if i didn't say that. Wow, that's very small.
01:27:50
Speaker
Yeah, right. After paying his respects, he denounced the tragedy as a horror of almost unimaginable proportions and promised to revisit gun control laws.
01:28:06
Speaker
For all the good that'll do. Yeah.
01:28:11
Speaker
The Minister for Scotland ordered a public inquiry to be done. um a previous case had happened in 1987 when when a man named michael ryan murdered 16 people in cold blood in hungerford sorry pardon me uh in hungerford berkshires before killing himself and an investigation began into the killer this murderer oh and his last name was hamilton which is what we're going to call him
01:28:49
Speaker
Sorry, i only laughed because i fucked up saying something about Hamilton earlier, didn't I? Yeah. No, I'm like, oh no. Okay.
01:29:01
Speaker
I need to, I don't know my Broadway. Is that what it is? ah Your musicals. Yeah. for pro Yeah. I haven't seen Hamilton. I haven't seen Wicked. i haven't seen lot of them.
01:29:17
Speaker
I saw the first Wicked. It was okay. Okay. I wouldn't mind. I don't mind when they're on like Disney Plus and I don't have, you know, i mean, they're free to watch. Yeah.
01:29:28
Speaker
ah like Hamilton. like Hamilton. I think it was really well done. Yeah. I feel like I've heard. but it's like four hours long. It's really, right? Yeah. Yeah. Three or four hours long.
01:29:41
Speaker
I like the cabaret because they do that in Schitt's Creek and then like Stevie does that one song and she does really beautiful job.
01:29:51
Speaker
It's great. Um.
01:29:55
Speaker
Right. Pete Catherine O'Hara. Right. Such a national treasure for Canada lost. Hey. i don't know if talked about that yeah she just won that like award for the studio and seth rogan like accepted her award posthumously oh i really want to see the studio i love anything seth rogan does and she's amazing yeah so oh he wasn't seth rogan was in future man with Josh Hutcherson and he his character's name is Susan and he says in the future Susan is a unisex name.
01:30:37
Speaker
It's very silly. I just love it. i Oh God, sorry. Okay, so where were we at?
01:30:49
Speaker
Oh yeah, the
01:30:53
Speaker
The murderer. Because, of course, the murderer always gets his name. And then they kill so many people that, you know, you're like, I don't have time to name all their names. Which, that's the horrible part. Yeah.
01:31:05
Speaker
I don't think I could. i did, like, look. But ah they were a lot of the miners, so. Yeah, it could be protected, like, information. and then.
01:31:17
Speaker
Probably any of the survivors probably also don't want their names out there and unless they've chosen for them to be out there. Yeah, and a lot of the sources, so I just didn't pursue it.
01:31:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:31:33
Speaker
But, yeah, I want to honor their story. um Yeah, they had pretty ah okay gun laws, and then Apparently, ah think these changes were amended after the fact. So there were like laws against handguns.
01:31:57
Speaker
You need to have a proper permit. There were bans against most assault weapons. Or sorry, all assault weapons and most rifles. Like, you know, the heavy duty. Yeah.
01:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. The ones that can do the most damage and stuff, but... And no one with a criminal record or history of mental illness purchase one. High capacity stuff. Yeah.
01:32:22
Speaker
Because I think, yeah, if you happen to have a handgun for your protection, like it, it can hold what? Six to 12 bullets maybe? Like that's different. Yeah. Yeah.
01:32:34
Speaker
And you have like take aim and fire. Um, He had a legit license for his firearms and he also belonged to Dunblane gun club.
01:32:50
Speaker
yeah He definitely had a history with the firearms and had once been refused entrance to another gun club of and accused of being erratic in behavior and suspicious and stuff like that. Like there's some things in his past. Yeah.
01:33:07
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that should have stopped him being able to have a gun, then. If the people that support people being allowed to have a guns are like, nah, man.
01:33:18
Speaker
This guy's nuts. We don't want to be associated with you. If those people are the ones saying we don't want you to bring your gun in our presence, then maybe we should listen.
01:33:32
Speaker
he got kicked out of the and NRA, but that's fine, right? and Yeah. For sakes. should be
01:33:40
Speaker
for erratic yeah and as always comes out after the um quotes about the name from the neighbors and such like known around his community as angry paranoid gun happy a perverted loner ah ah lovely also described as a dumping ball dumpy balding and bespectacled 43 year old man the spectacle let's not bring that word back
01:34:11
Speaker
Yeah, why is it always a bad thing when they're described glasses? Bespectacles. They're four eyes.
01:34:21
Speaker
Usually I don't mind ah that word, but when you pair it with Dumpy and Balding. Dumpy and Balding. It's my statement.
01:34:32
Speaker
Dumpy, Balding, and Bespectacles. Is that username? Yeah. also a social misfit and a suspected child molester.
01:34:44
Speaker
The other descriptors. He loved the Boy Scouts, but was fired from a leader position in 1974 for unstable and possibly improper behavior following a scout camp.
01:35:01
Speaker
And that man was allowed to have permits to have a gun.
01:35:09
Speaker
not great yeah i'm seeing red flags everywhere
01:35:20
Speaker
boy scouts supposed to be so wholesome i loved girl guides i mean it's supposed to be great come on i only did it for like a year or two so i mean
01:35:33
Speaker
winter camping wooho there was some oh we never did that i only went camping once it was fun it was like a weekend matt yeah i remember doing some fun stuff thank um yeah so this guy this is more for his own this mother enjoyment yeah he then like in the 80s so this is after what he's been a boy scout leader and fired Now he's starting his own clubs for youths, mostly young boys, to come learn some gun stuff and sports and things.
01:36:09
Speaker
Ugh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:36:14
Speaker
Some said he behaved inappropriately. As in, run around in your underwear and get photographed, kids. What the fuck? Yeah.
01:36:26
Speaker
This is triggering, isn't it? um they found a collection of pictures of kids in various states of undress like bathing suits or shorts so a lot of times they're shirtless yeah kids around there heard to keep away from the local creep one boy william mckinnis recalls we always told the boys that they should never be the last one in the shower
01:36:51
Speaker
oh like don't be alone with him yeah are they showering? Oh, because sports. Yeah. William's son, Stuart, was part of one of these clubs, but quit around age 11, and later said they were forced to strip down to their waist and stick their chests out, and Hamilton would just stare at them.
01:37:14
Speaker
Jesus. Ugh. Kathleen Kerr, his 71-year-old neighbor, said he was very creepy. He looks straight through you.
01:37:25
Speaker
um no And he seemed to start spiraling after he was taken away from his Boy Scout duties. He said he was falsely accused of being a sex offender.
01:37:37
Speaker
Falsely. Oh, yeah. They have the pictures to prove it. Right? No. After the fact, it's easy to. um In 1993, he wrote to the Scottish Secretary Michael Forsyth to complain directly Hundreds of children tell their parents I am acting inappropriate with them. They're all liars.
01:38:01
Speaker
They'll say I'm a creepy creep.
01:38:05
Speaker
Fuck's sakes. he wrote directly to some of the parents to plead that they send their kids to his clubs. No!
01:38:16
Speaker
Sorry. Ugh. On the early morning of the attack, just hours prior, he was seen distributing copies of protest letters he had written, including a letter to Her Royal Highness herself.
01:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, and then you go on to murder a bunch of children and kill yourself? That's really going to help your case. Like, and- Makes no sense. You're like, if I don't get an answer back from the Queen, by- Within 45 minutes.
01:38:47
Speaker
You know, like, What the hell? That makes no sense. Well, let alone a distributing things at like 6am and then like being like, anyway, it's not even funny, but the start of the day. okay. So this kind of just quote, um, details what I was just describing from the Canadian encyclopedia.ca.
01:39:11
Speaker
Oh no. well Canadian. Only hours before he embarked on his murderous assault, Hamilton distributed copies of protest letters he had written over the years to the local council, national politicians, to parents, even to the Queen.
01:39:29
Speaker
The BBC got copies of seven letters the day after the massacre. his letter to the Queen, written five days earlier, Hamilton complained that the police had falsely accused him of being a sex offender.
01:39:43
Speaker
quote, or quote within a quote, as well as my personal distress and loss of public standing, this situation has also resulted in loss of business and ability to earn a living, he wrote.
01:39:55
Speaker
Indeed, I cannot even walk the streets for fear of embarrassing ridicule.
01:40:02
Speaker
Then how about, and I don't advocate for it, but how about you kill yourself and don't take a bunch of fucking kids with you? Like, just do society a favor. If you're all, woe is me, like... What's the point? Yeah, exactly.
01:40:17
Speaker
You're gonna fucking kill yourself at the end anyway because you can't live with yourself after that? Well... Great. Just do that step first, then. Just do that step first. That's really, like... And it's not...
01:40:32
Speaker
I can't imagine it's easy to have somebody charged with being, like, a sex offender. so No.
Community Grief and Response
01:40:40
Speaker
There's, like... Various degrees of that, I know.
01:40:43
Speaker
Where, you know, it's not... It's like someone... Say you're, like, peeing out in public or whatever. Like, sometimes that can you be enough to get something, you know, on your, like... Yeah. ah Register your offense record. But, like, no. These...
01:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, even these rules weren't enough to curb this guy or stop him from anything.
01:41:12
Speaker
ah In 1993, the year after he closed some boys clubs, Hamilton wrote to Scottish secretary- yeah, there's more about him right into that guy- Secretary Michael Forsythe to blame overzealous police officers obsessed with child abuse.
01:41:30
Speaker
That same year, he wrote to parents...
01:41:34
Speaker
Sorry, I guess I just kind of already talked about that, but... Urging them to ignore the rumors and send their children to his annual summer camp. I cannot understand why you have not booked your boy for this annual event, which is held for the benefit and enjoyment of children his age.
01:41:53
Speaker
Jesus. Jesus. Because they're probably asking the kids, where do you want to go? And the kids are going, no! don't want go! I'd rather go to Bible camp, Mom! Yeah. It sounds funny.
01:42:09
Speaker
Jesus. So some of those parents may have managed to escape his horrors in the past, but now whole families were torn apart and grieving their lost babies, the lost loved ones.
01:42:21
Speaker
Like, the poor community, you know, having to deal with All of that perversion and then his retribution. That's crazy.
01:42:33
Speaker
It's fucked. I've never seen one too with like like a case like this where the motivation is so, don't know, very sinister. And like, usually it's students that are fucked up. Yeah, it's like so somebody that got like bullied or... feels marginalized or something. Yeah.
01:42:57
Speaker
He's just like, why won't you let me diddle your children? you're like, but sir. Yeah, why don't you pay to send them to summer camp so I can most... So messed up. I think I've heard of one other shooting maybe that was like an adult that went in. Really? in Yeah, but it's...
01:43:23
Speaker
Oh my god.
01:43:27
Speaker
It was like a disgruntled like separation situation where like somebody was like wife was going to the kids and the husband wasn't going to. Yeah. So he like went into the school and like specifically targeted the classroom his kids were in to like take the kids or something.
01:43:45
Speaker
Yeah. Something like that. But so personal a motive though. Yeah. Yeah. This one is different.
01:43:58
Speaker
for sure yeah it's so cold in a way if i can't have your kids nobody else can you know you're like oh it's like i blame your kids for lying or something and that's what he's trying to say like yeah so many levels of disgusting for sure yeah
01:44:22
Speaker
So, don't have too much more. Sorry. Good. Yeah. Right. i'm I'm angry. I have a little squishy toy here thing that um at work, a couple people gave out, like, valentines for everybody at work. And one of them had, like, these squishy, like, hamburgers. So, I've been playing with this your whole case. You're like, squish, squish, squish, squish.
01:44:47
Speaker
Take my anger out on this little cheeseburger. like jelly thing it's like fucking angry i need to crush something no those things are cute though i we've had a few people at work where now i have like a squishy seal and a little bit of a ra strawberry or something i get it i keep it in here and it got all dirty so i had to wash it stupid Oh, that's perfect. You're like Amy Poehler. She has a bunch of fake food in her podcast studio.
01:45:15
Speaker
She'd be like, look at that one, guys. Looks like a hamburger. This one is. It's like painted to look like a little cheeseburger. It did have a face. little Like a stress ball. Yeah, but it's just like squishes.
01:45:31
Speaker
say
01:45:34
Speaker
Anyway. No, you're good. um We'll just... ah you know knuckle down for this last page or whatever. Yep. Do it. Speedrun this. I'll survive.
01:45:47
Speaker
oh Just to own her. Those kiddos. One parent, Lynn McMasters. McMasters. Sorry, I said that weird. Lynn McMasters recalls her daughter, Victoria, leaving for school.
01:46:02
Speaker
She said six bye-byes to me as she went down the path, waving, looking back and laughing. What am I going to do without her? God, I'm sorry. Mike North, a professor at Sterling University, became a widower two years ago when his wife died of cancer.
01:46:19
Speaker
His daughter, Sophie, was among the 16 who died. James Ross lost his five-year-old granddaughter. i took her to school this morning and later she was dead, he said. In an editorial, Britain's Daily Telegraph commented, the murder of children is the ultimate test of faith.
01:46:37
Speaker
this For the sorrowing people of Dunblane, the test has begun and will not soon be over." End quote. Well, yeah, and like a a small community too. I'm sure like everybody knows everybody.
01:46:51
Speaker
Exactly. Like who wouldn't have been affected in some way? There was a little update in 2025 how there was an award bestowed honoring one of the teachers, Gwen Mayer.
01:47:06
Speaker
It was given to her family and it's called the Elizabethan emblem and goes to public servants who died in the line of duty and is basically the civilian equivalent of the Elizabeth cross, the award for UK forces killed in action or in ah an attack.
01:47:24
Speaker
<unk>s It's sad that they like even need an award like that though, like fucking civilian. died in the line duty yeah and why did it take so long till last year for her to get honored with that maybe they didn't have the civilian one before or like yeah like it seemed to matter because her husband rodney said they were extremely proud and honored to accept it on her behalf and that we always believed her actions that day deserved more recognition You would have had to have known Gwen to know that she would do whatever trying to protect the children in her care.
01:48:07
Speaker
She paid the ultimate price for that commitment. Finally, we now feel that she's been honored for what happened that day. Yeah. I mean, teachers, man. Teachers. They can anything for their kids.
01:48:20
Speaker
They don't get paid enough for that? They're like surrogate parents. Yeah. They put up with so much shit. Yeah. Literally, if they're like kindergarten or like preschool.
01:48:34
Speaker
Shit. Yeah. So just to conclude, by the following year, the parliament parliament had banned private ownership of most handguns.
01:48:46
Speaker
Yeah, so it's kind of more enforcing of those similar rules they had. Required mandatory registration for shotgun owners, and there have been no school shootings in the UK since then.
01:48:59
Speaker
That's good. i guess, right? I'm like, yay, and silver lining. um and Oh yeah, this one article said now the UK, well, they it was like most of the UK, they didn't mention Northern Ireland, but the rest, England, Scotland, and Wales, sees an average of about 30 gun deaths a year.
01:49:21
Speaker
And they said in 2020 in the US, it was close to 20,000. Yeah.
Gun Law Pushback and Technology Impacts
01:49:29
Speaker
I don't know how true that is, but it's pretty stark. And... Oh, it was not without pushback, of course, on the gun laws, because strangely enough, Prince Philip, when he was still alive, he compared banning guns to banning cricket bats.
01:49:46
Speaker
Just like, you know, they're weapons. If anybody wants to use them. Yeah. Yeah, let me ah reload my cricket bat, get within striking distance of me, or I can throw it at you like a frisbee and try and kill you.
01:50:03
Speaker
Like, how is that the same thing? God forbid. Fucking aristocracy. They just, like, love their hunting and stuff, so they don't want to have to give that up. It's like, yeah, um have a a school stabbing and try and stab somebody with a pocket knife. Yeah. That's right. 38 casualties. No, it's just not possible.
01:50:23
Speaker
Well, what happened if someone gave Ghostface a gun? What would he do? it gave him a shotgun, and it didn't work in that convenience store. Did he have shotgun? Right?
01:50:36
Speaker
Pretty sure he had a shotgun in the convenience store. the Yeah. I don't know, man.
01:50:48
Speaker
That's an almost an allegory. No matter how many of the killers you kill, more will pop up, right? Like... Yeah. If we don't fix them when they're young. and not all Right? Through,
01:51:04
Speaker
like Everybody just needs more therapy. i think so. And community too. That stuff's really gone away. Yeah. Every, they talk about like, oh yeah, everybody's got a cell phone in their pocket and everybody's so connected to other people, but are we really, i feel like we're not actually meaningfully connected to anybody anymore. We're just watching videos or like doing whatever, but we're not actually meaningfully connected
01:51:35
Speaker
to people that are You're like text all that out right now. We're not gonna have this kind of conversation by text. Like that's just not gonna happen. It's just not the way of Or it's like you're connecting with somebody halfway around the world, but like are you talking to...
01:51:50
Speaker
Yeah. Somebody down your street. Like, do you know your neighbor's names? Like, people are so disconnected. Oh, totally. Yeah. The way they've to come up with different Well, being the most connected they've ever been.
01:52:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah. The kids are like, I'm starved for physical touch. I'm like, what? Is this a thing? Yeah. I'm like, I just thought my family would be huggers.
Light-hearted Listener Anecdotes
01:52:12
Speaker
Yeah. Well, sometimes you just don't realize you haven't hugged someone in a while or whatever. You're like, whoa.
01:52:18
Speaker
This is weird. I know my mom goes to hug me and she goes, I know you don't like hugs. And I'm like, I don't hate them. I've been told I don't like hugs because I think I feel uncomfortable a little bit. Like where i'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.
01:52:32
Speaker
Yeah. You and I hug. We do hug sometimes. I just, me and mama, I feel like in our family, we're like, we hug if you're going away. We're not going to see you for a few days or something. You know, I don't know what it is. yeah That's funny.
01:52:48
Speaker
um Everybody hug your friends. Yup. We'd like to hug you too. Okay. We'd like to hug you too.
01:53:03
Speaker
Are we okay? I don't know. I ah have this squishy toy. It might explode. i A squishy toy.
01:53:14
Speaker
Oh, there's stress and things. Gordo's half hanging out of his little box here He looks like he's melting. He's like overflowed at the top of it. And he's like, it looks so funny.
01:53:27
Speaker
he's cute. I sometimes just see things which which show about different ragdoll cats and they'll be like, ah cute. And like they somehow have similar coloring, but they don't always, they don't look like Gordo.
01:53:39
Speaker
Not exactly. No. His little derpy face. be Slightly cross-eyed. Slightly cross-eyed. thanks Exactly. Yeah, I'm talking about you, little boy. Who's the boy?
01:53:56
Speaker
Our boy did very good. I rooped his nose. Oh, here he comes. We were only for the dog inside with, there's like view YouTube videos. We're supposed to keep your dog calm.
01:54:08
Speaker
He's just not left alone a lot. So we went out to the movie, like, but then he wanted outside. So we just left him outside. And then it was stay at reeves like, oh, at least you were cool. But when he came back and he was so excited to see us. And then it was like, oh, you're kind of thirsty too. Cause you don't have any like water outside right now. Usually in the summer we have like a dish out there too, but right now it's just snow.
01:54:27
Speaker
like well, you had your little snow that you like to lick? I was like, shit. hope he wasn't too thirsty. You know? He come inside, he was very like, missed you guys. And we're like, okay.
01:54:43
Speaker
Nice. Sorry, bud. Yeah. All right.
Conclusion and Future Topics
01:54:48
Speaker
Well, sorry about it, guys. Next one will be a little lighter. Yeah. What did we settle on? I can't remember. do you have it up? You suggested we do something a little stitious or a little superstitious. Oh, yeah.
01:55:03
Speaker
It was my my topic I picked and I forgot what it was. I had to look at my paper. yeah Yeah, we're going to be a little stitious.
01:55:14
Speaker
yeah Maybe superstitious. Should be fun. Medium stitious. I think there's different ones in different folklores and places. So yeah, that's a good one.
01:55:28
Speaker
Yeah. awesome well Catch you next time. Keep it cryptic.
01:55:56
Speaker
if i have to close my door because his butt has pushed it ajar. just have a couple pictures to put in the drive i think i forgot about.
01:56:15
Speaker
I don't know if they're in a folder.
01:56:25
Speaker
Do I have pictures? What's happening? I do. thought I did. Fuck sakes. was like, I couldn't find them for a second. I'm like, what's going on?
01:56:40
Speaker
All right, I'll just start the music while you're doing that. I think we're ready. That's episode 209.
01:56:55
Speaker
Yeah.