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Training and Caring for Collegiate Dancers
41 Plays4 years ago
Amanda Donahue, ATC, MS and Kristina Berger are faculty at the esteemed Joan Phelps Palladino School of Dance at Dean College in Franklin, Massachusetts. These two accomplished professionals join us today to talk about how they merge medicine, education, and training to best prepare their dancers for the dance world. Their unique collaboration is a model for training and caring for dancers. We talk about how athletic trainers are uniquely suited to be the key health care professional in a college dance program, and we dive into dance topics such as the Horton Technique, dancer nutrition, and how dance helps you discover your inner passion to keep you going in your career.
Dean College: https://www.dean.edu/academics/schools/palladino-school-of-dance/
Horton Technique for Dance: https://www.dean.edu/academics/schools/palladino-school-of-dance/
Performing Arts in the National Athletic Trainers Association: https://www.nata.org/professional-interests/emerging-settings/performing-arts
Doctors for Dancers: https://doctorsfordancers.com
Kristina Berger is a world-class dancer, choreographer, and teacher of the Horton and Hawkins techniques, both of which she teaches as Assistant Professor at Dean College. Kristina has performed throughout the United States, Europe, and Asia in positions ranging from current status as principal dancer with The Erick Hawkins Dance Company to first female and Westerner to perform virtuoso solo "Hanuman The Monkey King" in Bali, exclusive soloist of original Lester Horton works, and dancer for Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. Kristina has danced with Molissa Fenley & Dancers, Joyce Trisler Danscompany, Washington Opera Ballet and SWATT. She has been on dance faculty at Marymount Manhattan College, Steps, Peridance, The Joffrey School of Ballet, and continues to teach, create, and perform globally.
Amanda Donahue has served as the Athletic Trainer for the Palladino School of Dance & School of Arts at Dean College located in Franklin, Massachusetts since 2013. She received her Bachelor of Science in Athletic Training from Northeastern University and her Master of Science in Kinesiology from University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Amanda currently serves as the Performing Arts Committee Chair for the NATA Council of Practice Advancement and is the NATA Liaison for the Performing Arts Athletic Trainer’s Society. In addition to her work at Dean, Amanda worked as one of the athletic trainers with Boston location of Blue Man Group, as well as the Boston Ballet Summer Dance Program . Her passion of dance began at a young age with ballet and is currently a competitive ballroom dancer.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guests
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast, hosted by Stephen Karaginas and Yasi Ansari.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast again. I'm Stephen Karaginas, your co-host, along with Yasi Ansari. And today we're going to focus on the college dance experience and more specifically, the people that train them and take care of them.
00:00:37
Speaker
So the Athletes in the Arts initiative is based on this idea that sports medicine and performing arts medicine concepts and ideas and research are exchanged to help take care of the athletes and performers. And in a small college in Massachusetts, we see this example playing out very well.
00:00:54
Speaker
So we thought it would be fun today to have their athletic trainer at Dean College and one of the faculty there come into the show today and discuss with us how they work together so well. So first on our show today is Amanda Donahue. She's the athletic trainer for the Paladino School of Dance and School of Arts at Dean College in Franklin, Massachusetts. She's also the National Athletic Trainers Association liaison for the Performing Arts Athletic Trainers Society. She's been at Dean College since 2013.
00:01:22
Speaker
And she's also a competitive ballroom dancer, so I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit. Also, Christina Berger. She's an assistant professor of dance at Dean College. She's also a principal dancer still with the Eric Hawkins Dance Company, as well as so many other credits, including a soloist at the Lester Horton Dance Theater.
00:01:42
Speaker
dancing with Melissa Finley and company, Joyce Trisler Dance Company, Washington Opera Ballet, a founding member of SWAT in Paris and Zurich. She's also on dance faculty at Marymount Manhattan College, steps on Broadway, Joffrey School of Ballet, Ballet Arts at City Center, guest artists with Taipei National University of the Arts, and on and on. So she's an amazing and accomplished performer and teacher.
Role and Path of an Athletic Trainer
00:02:08
Speaker
So Amanda and Christina, thank you so much for being here today.
00:02:11
Speaker
We're so excited to have both of you here. Thank you. So Amanda, first off, so you've been involved in performing arts as an athletic trainer. And when you hear trainers, sometimes folks get confused about what a trainer actually is. So an athletic trainer, what is that type of job exactly?
00:02:30
Speaker
Yes, so also I want to say just thank you for having us. Christine and I are very honored to be part of this podcast today. So an athletic trainer, a certified athletic trainer, is a health care professional that specializes in injury care and prevention. So ATs have to graduate from an accredited program that is now housed in the graduate degree program. So you have to have a master's in athletic training.
00:02:56
Speaker
From there, we then have to sit for our national board exam. And then in most states right now, I believe we're up to about 49 states that you have to be licensed to actually practice in that state. And there's a number of continuing education opportunities that we have to complete to maintain our certification.
00:03:16
Speaker
But where you'll see us, not only in the traditional sense of athletics, but you'll see us in performing arts as well. And that's my specialization. You'll see us in the military setting. You'll see us in a physician's practice or even the occupational health setting as well. So the field of athletic training is really expanding. And we're working not only with your traditional athlete that you would think of, but movers in general and movers across the country.
00:03:46
Speaker
So to be clear, though, this is different than like when people talk about trainers at the gym. That's a much different thing, correct? Correct. That would be referring to a personal trainer and that they do not have a standardized national exam. Most of them you do not have to graduate from a collegiate program for that. But I will say that there is a lot of overlap in regards to the fitness element within athletic training. And it's really common, I think, for athletic trainers to
00:04:14
Speaker
work in the fitness setting as well. That was something that I actually did as an undergraduate student. I did get my certification as a personal trainer, and that helped me continue to grow and apply what I was learning in my athletic training program, but then actually implement that right away in the fitness world as well.
00:04:34
Speaker
Now, how does someone get involved in the arts? As an athletic trainer, what kind of skill set do you need to get involved with the performing arts? Do you need a special certification for that? Do you have to do an internship? How did you get your foot into the arts?
00:04:51
Speaker
Sure. So I, that's a great question. So I grew up as a dancer. I trained in ballet. And then when I got to college is when I transitioned to ballroom and I'm still a competitive ballroom dancer.
00:05:10
Speaker
So I, you know, when I was a student, as an AT student, I had exposure to traditional sports setting. And I knew that I wanted to keep dance in my life somehow. And at the time, I really thought that performing
00:05:24
Speaker
Was the only way to do that to actually major in dance, but you know now I know better There's so many things that you can do with a dance degree And I actually had the opportunity to meet Elaine Winslow So she's the head athletic trainer for the Radio City Rockettes and I met her at a conference and introduced myself and turned out that they had an internship opportunity and I applied for that and I was able to intern with their athletic training program For a full six months, so that was my initial foot in the door very
Passion and Creativity in Athletic Training
00:05:54
Speaker
cool
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, so I was so grateful for that opportunity to meet Elaine and Gail and Meg and Monica and Wendy and Karen, all of them that are there. And they've really, I think, shaped my career and had had a tremendous impact in my career as an athletic trainer. And I'm still very close with them and work with them on different
00:06:14
Speaker
you know organizations and and whatnot so but that was my foot in the door was getting that internship you know and I went on to get my master's degree at the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana and I had the opportunity to then work with the PTATC Kim Hardin there with their dance program so that kept my foot in the door for the performing arts and after graduation shortly after that Elaine had sent me
00:06:37
Speaker
the job application for the job postings at Dean College that they were looking for a full-time AT dedicated to performing arts. And I applied and I got it. And I've been there for the past eight plus years now. So that's how I got my foot in the door. But I also know athletic trainers who work in the performing arts that have never danced a day in their life. And they just have, you have to have a passion to help people, right? That's all you need. You need to be an AT that is compassionate, that is willing to learn.
00:07:05
Speaker
willing to listen to an underserved population in the performing arts, and that's what you need.
Dance Education and Teaching Philosophy
00:07:12
Speaker
All the other things, certifications and Pilates or whatever, you can take those to enhance your skill set, but it comes down to just being a very good athletic trainer that is willing to think creatively and help an underserved population.
00:07:29
Speaker
I think the beauty of all this, just hearing you talk, I think having that dance background is so special. Just talking to you and hearing your passion, you're still dancing, and now you're in the field and helping the population that you love so much. And then, Christina, you come from, obviously, a dance background, and you're a dancer, and
00:07:50
Speaker
And I think that I just want to throw myself in here a little bit, too, as a dietician. That's where my passion began, too, in working with the nutrition population, because I, growing up as a dancer, just realized how important it is to play a key role in helping this population.
00:08:10
Speaker
So, Christina, tell us a little bit about you and your role. All right. Well, so my role as a collaborator with the magnificent Amanda Donahue is I am a full-time professor of dance at Dean College. I came to Dean five years ago after living in New York City for 20 years.
00:08:35
Speaker
and also touring internationally as a professional dancer. And I have been teaching for most of my career as well. I've been teaching for over 20 years, a huge range of levels, but mostly at the college level.
00:08:53
Speaker
And when I came to Dean, I'm teaching, primarily I'm teaching Horton technique, which is, as I said, it's the technique that just runs through every muscle fiber of my body. I've had the honor of performing original works by Lester Horton, thanks to my mentor, Don Martin.
00:09:12
Speaker
and Frank Eng, who Frank was Lester's partner in the theater and in life. And Don is the, he is now the one who carries on the legacy. And he also went to high school with Alvin Ailey and Carmen de Lavalat and was, you know, a major force in making sure that this technique gets passed on in the most honest and generous way for me.
Collaboration and Injury Prevention
00:09:40
Speaker
And I also demonstrated for Milton Myers for many, many years. So we traveled the world together. So this is the technique that I really, I think I specialize in as a teaching artist. When I met Amanda, I had a huge, very, very varied population of dancers coming from different experiences, different levels. And I had never had such a, quite such a wide range.
00:10:07
Speaker
And I said, how are we going to do this? So I went to Amanda for one of my own little niggle naggles, you know, there's always something going on. And I just said, you know, would you mind coming in to observe my class?
00:10:22
Speaker
you know, see if you can, you know, if there's anything that you can see how we can better approach this so I can still continue to pass this technique on honestly and in its pure form. But it is a very physically athletic demanding technique. So if I'm going to honor that, then I need to be able to do this correctly. So she came in and right away, boom, she said, you know what?
00:10:43
Speaker
We got to get on the floor. We need to figure out what our glutes and hamstrings are doing. We need to, when you're doing those flatbacks and those laterals, know that's not where you want to initiate from. So right away we started connecting and she and I have built on this workshop that we started just out of me kind of being curious and
00:11:05
Speaker
and needing to try to find a new way to approach my teaching. And so it has been really fun, really successful. We've actually gone on now to take the technique into my higher advanced classes, which is really fun, so that she can break down some of these incredibly physically demanding movements, jumping, turning, getting on the floor, spiral descent up. How do you break that down? Well, that can take an hour or two.
00:11:30
Speaker
So we've just developed a really wonderful partnership, and that's something that I think can continue to evolve forever and ever and ever.
00:11:46
Speaker
So you're in the teaching realm now, but you've been performing performing for a long time as a professional. Yes. When you're a professional, when in the height of your professional career, did you have anybody like Amanda working with your companies anywhere in New York that you could turn to? Was it pretty much, you know, on your own? How did it work for you?
00:12:03
Speaker
That is a great question. So actually, yeah, I'm still performing, by the way, I'm still working with Eric Hawkins Dance Company, which is awesome, and doing my own work and working with Lake Tahoe Dance Festival as well. But yeah, in the height, I would say in the height of my performing career where that's, you know, all I was doing all the time.
00:12:22
Speaker
the answer is absolutely not. I did not have anyone like Amanda, and I would have been thrilled, but I, you know, you just sort of figured it out. Like once in a while we'd have somebody come in, but the way that I was able to sustain myself, which was really difficult, was through Pilates. I had some really good friends who were
00:12:44
Speaker
pretty major in the Pilates legacy, going way back to Drago's gym, who I used to teach at Ballet Arts at City Center, and one of the dancers there was getting her certifications at the time, and then has sort of risen up.
00:13:02
Speaker
in that wonderful realm and she would see me for free because she wanted to try new things out. I like working with dancers and then eventually it was like hey just give me 25 bucks and and then maybe she connected me to someone else and then whenever I had injuries which I certainly did and knock on everything. I haven't had to have surgery. I've been able to rehabilitate everything on my own from
00:13:24
Speaker
to torn knee ligaments, to torn labrum in my shoulder, to damaged cartilage. A lot of it with Amanda's help. But in the past, it was basically up to me. I had a poor artist's health insurance. I was able to see people at Harkness, but it was also a little bit less consistent and certainly not conventional. My Pilates superheroes and then Roberta Wien at PT and Pilates,
00:13:53
Speaker
who sees a lot of dancers and also helped me out to work out a plan so that I could financially make this possible for myself. But it was certainly not something that was just given. You had to be really creative and it became like another full-time job for me to get care. So if you could go back to yourself in the beginning of your professional career with all the information you know now, what would be the most important advice you would give you to yourself about taking care of yourself?
00:14:20
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that you don't need to take nine technique classes a day. It's one that it's OK to go to the gym. Strength is actually a good thing. And that when your body is telling you something, when you feel signs, when there's pain, when there's fatigue, listen to it, you will be a better performer tomorrow and the next day rather than continuously pushing
Challenges in Dance and Injury Management
00:14:48
Speaker
through. I think I caught the last.
00:14:50
Speaker
end of that an end of an era which thankfully I don't see too much of anymore at least in in my circles which which is like you know you just work through it you push right through that injury and you know it makes you stronger uh I don't think so yeah
00:15:08
Speaker
I've worked with a lot of adolescent dancers who try to push through the injury just because competition is so elevated, and they want to keep going. And especially for the summer intensives, they just want to keep going, keep going. And some of those athletes have resulted in having stress injuries, like stress fractures. And it takes them so much longer to come back had they
00:15:32
Speaker
taking a break stepped back right and gotten the help that they need it or maybe just given their body some rest and then been able to come back a stronger dancer. I was afraid to take one day off, you know, and yet you can't miss anything and also you know if you miss rehearsal, there might be
00:15:50
Speaker
There's still competition. There might be someone there who, oh, you try her role, and all of a sudden you come. So not to have that kind of security or trust, even from people that you're working with every day, or even maybe a conversation just to sort of make that clear. I think that's something that I definitely want to continually make sure that I'm putting forth and implementing both as a teacher and a choreographer and a performer.
00:16:19
Speaker
for the people that I'm working with as well, that we can trust each other and we're here to support one another. It is a competitive field. There's no question about that, but there's got to be a balance so that we don't physically harm ourselves. And rest is important. I think also just within the dance realm,
00:16:45
Speaker
you know people who whether you're you're going to a dance school where you're you're learning there like you're doing your academics there plus dancing or if you're at a school throughout you know during the morning and then in the afternoon you have all these class dance classes i think dancers grow up
00:17:03
Speaker
But, you know, really living the dance equals life, right? Dance everything. So taking that break is so challenging for some of them. Absolutely. Amanda, I want you to tell me a little bit more about what the day to day of a athletic trainer in the performing arts might look like.
00:17:21
Speaker
And I just want to say that I have such huge respect for athletic trainers. Some of my closest friends are athletic trainers through my collegiate experience. And so I know what their role looks like and how important it is. And I just want the people listening to this podcast to understand what your day-to-day role looks like and how important your role is for the dancer.
00:17:48
Speaker
Absolutely. I think that's a great question. And so typical in the collegiate setting, at least I can definitely speak to that. So my Monday through Friday kind of looks like a nine to five schedule, which is really kind of rare for athletic trainers, first of all, which that is something that I do enjoy working in the collegiate setting for.
00:18:06
Speaker
Right now, the way that it's organized is I do schedule-based appointments for the dancers, so that way, even after their collegiate setting, they understand that process of having a schedule appointment to get care, to make sure that that translates
Mental Health and Support Systems
00:18:19
Speaker
to afterwards as well. So the dancers, they can come in, and not only the dancers, the theater students, any of the performing arts students at Dean.
00:18:26
Speaker
They schedule an appointment with me. We do an evaluation. We make a plan. Is it something that needs to be referred out to our team physicians? Is it something that we can manage in-house? A lot of times it is something that we can manage in-house. Then we go from there and we schedule follow-up appointments.
00:18:43
Speaker
the scheduled part of it, but then there's also the non-scheduled part because there have been times where I've had students walk through my clinic door and they've just hit their head and they have a concussion. I've had students that have fallen downstairs and fractured their foot and yet managed to make it down to the bottom of the campus center where I'm located versus stopping and asking for help. So there's that acute injury care that athletic trainers really, that is part of our gig, that is what we do.
00:19:12
Speaker
outside of just the prevention side. And then working with Christina, there's opportunities for me to then go into the classroom where I'm collaborating with Christina, I'm collaborating with our jazz faculty, I'm collaborating with our introduction course that we offer for our first year students, and that's where I'm able to really kind of dive into the prevention
00:19:33
Speaker
of it to really empower them with knowledge to take care of their bodies and that make them kind of realize that they've just invested thousands of dollars into not only their education, but their bodies as well as a performer.
00:19:47
Speaker
And I just want to make it clear that this is injury prevention. Yes. Yes. Injury prevention that I'm speaking to them for at least initially. Now, if they do sustain an injury, then that's when they also will come in and schedule an appointment and go from there. When we are for performances on backstage, in case anything were to ever happen, which things have happened backstage where they've been kicked in the face or they've won
00:20:11
Speaker
into a light getting off the stage, or they've sprained their ankle in the middle of one of our theater productions, we had our lead performer, Elle Woods, in Legally Blonde, sprain her ankle in the first 10 minutes of the show, and thankfully, I was able to go backstage, and at that time, I wasn't actually covering the show, I was just an audience member, but I was able to then go backstage, assess it, tape her backstage in the wings, and she finished the show.
00:20:39
Speaker
So again, there's that acute care that athletic trainers really shine on. That's what we do, right? So that's part of it. But there's also been times from a mental health standpoint, just in the nature of it, they form relationships with us. There's a level of trust there. And there's students that have come in in the middle of a panic attack or just a mental health crisis, not having a good day or finally
00:21:08
Speaker
broken down to a point and come to the realization that they need help because they have been struggling with a eating disorder. And so those are parts of my job that I'm grateful that I am there for those extremely hard moments for them. Go ahead. I was going to say that I always call the athletic trainer. It's like the right hand man.
00:21:29
Speaker
or woman right and they're in a clinical setting that I work with you know we have nurses right so that that are there for the patients and I almost feel like athletic train without athletic trainers it's it's so challenging to make sure that everything is
00:21:48
Speaker
like right, you got to be ready to go you got to be prepared for your performance, we're here to to be backstage in case anything goes wrong or on the side of the field in case anything goes wrong when it comes to hydration there right there. So athletic trainers are really the
00:22:05
Speaker
Like I said, the right hand woman or man, and they really help with all of the specialized needs of the athletes. Yeah. Absolutely. It goes way beyond your job description. I mean, they just want to hang out with you all the time. I don't blame them. So do I. And they're normally the first to know, like you said,
00:22:28
Speaker
if someone is struggling with unhealthy relationships with food, if they have just things going on when it comes to mental health, they're the ones that communicate to the physicians, right? They're the ones that communicate to the dietician, to the parents, to the mental health provider. They help with the athletes' scheduling, and they just do so much.
Adaptations During COVID-19
00:22:52
Speaker
And I think it's really important for everyone to learn more.
00:22:54
Speaker
So that brings up a good point about the trainers and the teachers working together in the college environment. How rough has it been for you guys the last year and a half with all this COVID stuff going on?
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's been difficult for sure. But I think it has forced us to continue to grow, not only as a clinician, but as dance educators as well. So when COVID really hit, it was right before spring break. So we left for spring break last March, and then we did not return to in-person until this past spring semester. So we all had to go.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah, we had to scramble we had to, you know, figure it out. I was forced into now figuring out telehealth care for the first time, which is, it's really cool. And it was something I didn't think I was ever going to go down that road. But now that I have and have that experience and was forced to grow into that it's it's incredibly helpful.
00:23:55
Speaker
And so we were all kind of figuring it out together. So I think, you know, supporting the students, but then like the dance educators, the faculty and myself all kind of supporting each other and figuring out what is it to teach on Zoom? What are the settings that we need to do? How do we make it work on teams? And I think from a
00:24:11
Speaker
The clinical standpoint, what I found to be really helpful was the dancers are struggling. Just how you make this work now and how do you create a safe space while dancing at home? What happens to my performers that are struggling or recovering from an eating disorder who potentially are actually going through an active recovery program right now and being that additional support for them? So being able to offer that
00:24:38
Speaker
clinical virtual care for them, I think was really vital for us for the spring semester from a clinical, like just keeping a pulse on what's happening with them medically.
00:24:51
Speaker
And then in the fall, the college did make the decision to stay 100% remote. So again, we kind of found ourselves in that same situation. So the fall semester, I was 100% providing telehealth care to our performers. So during that summer, I dove into any type of continuing ed that I could.
00:25:09
Speaker
based upon telehealth, taking courses from physios, from athletic trainers, from strength and conditioning professionals on how do they make it work virtually, how does their assessment change. We can no longer rely upon our special test and manual muscle testing that we would typically do in person, but there is so much that you can do more
00:25:30
Speaker
from a range of motion standpoint and it actually empowered a lot of the performers in my mind I think because it forced them to really be honest about their exercises and whether or not they were doing it and then it gave them that sense of as they were improving as they were getting stronger they did it without any type of manual care
00:25:48
Speaker
support from me, which I think from an empowerment standpoint is really huge. So I was grateful for that for sure. So it kind of made them have to step up and take more ownership in their own care then. Yes, 100%, which I think is fantastic because they all should be doing the exercises outside of technique and everything.
00:26:11
Speaker
So this whole time you weren't able to see anybody in person for like if they had a injury to rehab or anything like that, you weren't allowed to have one on one personal contact.
00:26:20
Speaker
No, because all of us were virtual for the fall semester. During the spring semester, we came back, but we still offered the hybrid choice. So some students stayed virtual, and some students came back to in-person. So then navigating that and being involved with policies and procedures, working with my dean of the School of Dance and School of the Arts, Mark Aronson, on how do we make that work safely for our performers.
00:26:46
Speaker
And how does that change things in the clinic, you know, from a social distancing standpoint, barriers that had to be placed, PPE, all the things, you know, helping support students in that transition and dancing with masks on and preparing them that way from a cross training standpoint, too. So that's,
00:27:03
Speaker
and still being able to support them virtually, which I think was helpful for any of our students or performers that actually had COVID. So I was able to do virtual checks with them in addition to the support of our health services team to just make sure that they're doing okay. And even talking about just breathing strategies that help those that were struggling with any type of respiratory symptoms that really made, I think, a profound effect on some of them. So I was, again, grateful
00:27:33
Speaker
for now having that skill set and being comfortable with treating virtually. Well, Christina, teaching virtually in college, how the heck does that work? That is a great question. I'm still figuring it out. She's phenomenal at it. She is very kind. I am amazed at how far we have come. And when I look back now, we just finished our final presentations.
00:27:59
Speaker
And I'm watching some of the videos of the stuff we covered. I'm like, yeah, how in the heck did we do that? And so first of all, learning to choreograph in a very elliptical fashion is key. But what was really cool, actually, so when we had everybody online,
00:28:20
Speaker
somehow it was it was very time-consuming but somehow I actually had more frequent and more consistent communication with every one of my students let me let me rephrase that with most of my students because you know it's not always gonna be everybody but um but people were not afraid to reach out because we knew we were all in this together you know it's like you're going through it's it's a crisis and and it's a cliche but sometimes it does take a crisis to kind of bring people together we know we're all dealing with this we're all
00:28:48
Speaker
dealing with tragedy, people are you know losing family members and loved ones and we are and I still believe that dance can save the world so we're on a mission so we're going to do this and we're going to try to do it as safely and wisely as possible. So I just basically with all my courses which I have these modern dance elements courses which
00:29:13
Speaker
Amanda has been a huge part of influencing the curriculum on because of our collaboration of just starting at the basics of getting people to become stronger and more mobile using Horton technique, athletic training and Pilates, which I think is just like a major superstar trifecta. It's the trilogy.
00:29:31
Speaker
And so I was able to do that. That can work in a small space. It actually can. And so let's just get our technique on. Let's focus on alignment and really strengthening core strength. Everyone's talking about core strength. But yes, actually, core strength and figuring out how to execute these
00:29:55
Speaker
really intricate, intense movements, but breaking them down so that we can all actually focus on this together. And in a way, being in a small space actually kind of enhanced that, because normally I'd say, you know, we got to move across the floor, let's leave this, let's go. But we had to focus on these details, these nuances. And it was actually, it was really awesome. And then this semester,
00:30:22
Speaker
When we had a hybrid, we have people who are in the space, but we still weren't allowed to go across the floor, which is absolutely, I totally support that. We weren't there yet. So you still have to maintain your six by six magic genie bottle of space.
00:30:44
Speaker
But because they were together, there was a different vibe and people were excited about that. But then I had some dancers who were behind a mask and then some dancers who were online. But I had people set up, I had actually different cameras. So I had students, can you bring your laptop and can you bring your laptop? So I got to see what
00:31:05
Speaker
you know, one dancer was doing in the upstage left corner, you know, I saw that back attitude wasn't turned out properly. And then I see, you know, in the middle of the room, I see somebody who, you know, needs to like, lengthen the scapula down and reach, you know, their
00:31:23
Speaker
fourth finger out just a little bit longer. And then I see someone on, you know, downstage who should, you know, take care of their fifth eyelash. So I like I actually had like these really detailed views because I was online, which I never had before. You know, people, you know, you used to think if you can kind of hide in the back of the room, that wasn't the case anymore. So that brought us together.
00:31:44
Speaker
And Amanda and I were not going to stop. I had her come in, which is our ideal is she comes in once in the beginning of the semester, does an assessment. We FaceTime before, and I tell her, this is what we got to work on. This is where I'm seeing weaknesses. And she will affirm that. And then we take it from there. And then she'll come in again at the end of the semester, usually right before finals, so that they can get like a little extra rehearsal, actually. I take what they're struggling most with.
00:32:13
Speaker
and we break it down, make them comfortable with it. And then I always make sure they understand this is not just for this dance class. This is for every technique class and also for your life. So this is something you can do when you're handed choreography that you go, what? Having that ability to assess yourself,
00:32:35
Speaker
is just incredibly valuable and I had to spend most of my performing career doing that anyway and it definitely wasn't a first choice but when you're on tour and stuff and you know you you just don't know you might just have yourself in a really small hotel room and and that's where you got to make it work so you don't know what you're going to have access to so I think that we
00:33:01
Speaker
we really were able to take advantage of the fact that we have these sort of different circumstances to bring people closer together and to get people excited about what it is that we would like to pass on from my highest level classes to my classes where no one had seen this language before. And I think it was, you know, they really did consistently push themselves
00:33:26
Speaker
everybody changed and it's it's awesome to see those two those two the beginning and the end you know with Amanda and then also with the technique itself. So Christina what did you learn about yourself as a instructor during this time like what feels that during COVID era are you going to take into
00:33:52
Speaker
you know, your classes as people, as more students do come into the studio and we don't have the masks and we don't have the Zoom, like what are you going to be implementing now?
Innovation in Dance and Athletic Training
00:34:04
Speaker
What are you taking from this experience? And you're like, I have to be able to do that now.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So I do think that dance, that everything is going in this direction. And, you know, the fact that I could figure out how to get onto this meeting is huge. So what I, you know, I used to write everything down. Like, actually, I have my little notes right here. So like, I write everything down. This is all my class. I have zillions and zillions and zillions of books of notes and pictures and stick figures and drawings.
00:34:38
Speaker
You know, and now we I we can video everything we can record everything and I think this is awesome It's an amazing skill and I've also because I first had to assign What when we couldn't even meet live like in spring it was just we didn't even have zoom accounts So we had to teach, you know, I had to send sigma smoke signals but I had them video themselves and send me videos and there's nothing like even though I
00:35:05
Speaker
I definitely you know it's not like the most exciting thing to watch yourself especially like right after performance on video But it's and it is an incredible tool that I think you know I would like to use in my classes as well, but I don't want to leave this behind because I
00:35:23
Speaker
you are writing with your hand and your arm, which is attached to your body. And there's a brain up there too. And so there are connectivities that happen from that. So what I think is I think dancers are never going to stop. We're never going to stop what we're doing. We're always going to find a way. We're absolutely insane. It's the only reason we can do this. If you're not insane and you don't love this with every
00:35:46
Speaker
Little ounce of your being then you might as well run away because it's just too hard And that's why dancers are just my favorite people, but I I would love to see us using the technology And also not forgetting where we come from and the beauty of passing this on in person if we do have that luxury also live music and
00:36:06
Speaker
This is something that I have really missed and I've been really spoiled. I mean, that's one cool thing about teaching in New York. Every studio, even as a modern dancer, but because of the technique I teach, I always have live music. I mean, that started back when I was subbing for my mentor at the Ailey School. You walk in and not just someone who is
00:36:30
Speaker
Oh, I'm just doing this as a side thing. No, these are people who are really, really passionate about dance. And one of the musicians I met at Dean College, actually, he and I are performing together in New York City for a fully vaccinated audience next week. So we've continued our connection in a show that we've created together. But these are
00:36:50
Speaker
having that sense of aliveness, but then also I am able to, I'm Zoom rehearsing, I've created a whole duet with a partner of mine in San Francisco. My friend and I, who were working with this musician, we rehearsed, he's in Rochester, she's in New York City, I'm in Boston. I'm working with Lake Tahoe Dance Festival and we're trying to come up with
00:37:13
Speaker
which rep, I am working with the Hawkins Company, we're making a film because our season was canceled at Lincoln Center and we were going to do something at Library of Congress and reconstruct a piece from 1947. So she said, you know what, it's not 1947, let's make a film and let's get, we're going to use the same sculpture, but let's reimagine the work. And that is what Eric would have done. So I'm part of all these really cool
00:37:37
Speaker
things and working with these wonderful artists who are finding new ways but let's not forget that dance is still a live breathing art form and the beauty of it is that you know you go and you I want to see that sweat you know on on on the performer I want to see that work that struggle it's so beautiful if it gets too glossy and too fancy well I'm not interested in that so um
00:38:02
Speaker
So I want to be, let's get excited about the rawness, the aliveness, but let's also use these wonderful tools where we can communicate with each other internationally. It's so cool for me to have rehearsal in San Francisco every day with this beautiful dancer who used to work with Béjar in Switzerland and San Francisco Ballet. And then here I am in Boston. So we're bringing all of these things together. And I think the fact that we can share them
00:38:32
Speaker
pretty much any time is amazing, but let's not also just sort of like put the other stuff aside. It's because that's the only way we could have gotten here in the first place. I want to implement all of that in my classes. I haven't figured out how to break it down, but that's a passion of mine. Write stuff down. Talk to each other. Connect. Look us in the eye. Don't just do this all the time. We need to practice communication. Dance is
00:39:02
Speaker
Communication, you know, your body is the vessel for telling stories so you also feed off of so many people's energy I think while you're dancing right like right next to you the audience is watching you Whatever that is It's gonna be so exciting I think for everyone to get back into yeah
00:39:27
Speaker
you know, the setting, right? The studio setting. And I wish everyone, I wish listeners, I'm sure with, you know, your energy is so contagious through your voice, but I wish they could see you too, because your energy is really, really contagious. And I think that's such an amazing few points that you mentioned about how you're going to be incorporating some of these technological tech, these tech tools to be able to add them into the traditional
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So Amanda, so same kind of question that what are you going to bring forward to your work from COVID in the future?
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I think throughout COVID, it has pushed me clinically to really hone my skills of cueing and movement assessment because virtually that's all you have, right? Is looking at a person, seeing how they're moving, listening to what's happening to them, to their experience and supporting them that way. So I think
00:40:30
Speaker
virtually, it's a way for me to still stay connected to performing artists, especially my dancers, you know, and even from like a prescreening standpoint or movement screening standpoint, that was something that I was able to collaborate and integrate with with our ballet faculty, Jill Silverman. So we made the decision in the fall to do a biomechanics of pointe class. So we
00:40:56
Speaker
took a two-day class and one day they met with me virtually and we talked about all the different anatomy, everything throughout the body. We also, I led them through a virtual pre-screening so I had pre-recorded videos to demonstrate the movements that I wanted them to do.
00:41:17
Speaker
They were given that ahead of time. I then led them through that in the class. And then from there, I was then able to give them feedback on that movement. And we integrated that throughout the entire semester. So then on day two, when they were with Jill, they were then taken through a ballet class. And they were able to implement the concepts that I talked about that first day into that class. So there was a need of concern of students dancing on point
00:41:44
Speaker
at home and different services from a safety standpoint. So that's what this did. It filled that need. So everything that kind of goes in to the strength and everything that goes into point is what we really covered. So that I think from a collaboration standpoint, again, it opened up more doors to think about things differently. And I think that's one of my favorite things about working at Dean is the ability to collaborate with the dance faculty. And I think that's something that's
00:42:12
Speaker
really unique to the performing arts setting from an athletic trainer standpoint because you know as a student growing up like you had your role as the AT you worked with the athletic trainer and then the coaches had their role and you kind of worked together but there really wasn't a whole lot of collaboration happening and
00:42:29
Speaker
And I learn from my dance faculty every time I walk into a room to observe them teaching. I'm learning external cues. I'm learning internal cues that they are using to lead their performers into their choreography, into their movement. I'm looking at how are they warming up their bodies. What are things that I can pull from that to enhance my practice and care for my students? So
00:42:53
Speaker
that just having that opportunity to be able to collaborate and learn from that, to learn from Christina, oh my gosh, any type of queuing that you can think of from an imagery standpoint, she is the queen, absolute queen of imagery. And that- What is wrong with this person? No! It is fantastic. And like you said to her energy, like that came through.
00:43:20
Speaker
not only in person, but virtually, and it does. And I think that was really inspiring to see when I have that ability to collaborate with her and speaks to her, her professionalism and just her as a human being, which is really cool to experience. So, but yeah, I think that's just moving on. We're just growing as a healthcare professional and we'll continue to use virtual care.
00:43:44
Speaker
Awesome. So Christina, you talked before about how you're a professional dancer, but you started teaching really early as well. So what makes me fascinated by people who are at the highest professional level of a certain form or sport or activity, there are lots of athletes, for instance, who are amazing and they try to coach or teach and they suck at it. They're terrible.
00:44:06
Speaker
And then there's other ones who are like, you know, not very good athletes, but like amazing coaches, right? But then what drive but then to see someone who gets into it so early while they're still performing is amazing to me. So what made you what drew you into spending so much your time in teaching while you're still a professional?
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. That's a great question. So I had absolutely no plans of this at all. I'm in New York City. I had already danced with Washington Opera Ballet. I had toured the country as a Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Braley, Circus Showgirl. Definitely no athletic trainers there, let me tell you.
00:44:46
Speaker
they're gone so i can say that um but i know i love i loved um that was an amazing experience i um i and then i was with the joy i had been with the joist trestler dance company in new york and i was sort of
00:45:01
Speaker
getting started or trying to find my way into the Eric Hawkins realm because I was just absolutely fascinated by this beautiful technique and so ethereal. But my backbone has always been Horton and I was demonstrating in the prestigious position of assistant to Milton Myers who is just
00:45:24
Speaker
Absolutely incredible. He is now, he's at Juilliard at the Ailey School. He's the director of the Contemporary Traditions Program at Jacob's Pillow, which is where I met him as a scholarship student at Jacob's Pillow. So I became his demonstrator and he, you know, one day he wasn't able to teach his class and he called me at seven in the morning and the class was at eight or eight thirty, one of those at the Ailey School.
00:45:53
Speaker
And I was like, oh. So I'm 22 years old, going to teach. And my heart, I mean, no, there was no performance that conjured the same butterflies in my stomach as walking in. And I'm going to, so I'm going to, and I saw, I knew these dancers and they're all absolutely stunningly incredible and powerful.
00:46:15
Speaker
And do I even know how to count it? I mean, I know how to count for myself, but I mean, I'm just like on the subway, like, like, shaking. I mean, like, no performance has come close to the nervousness I felt there. And I was 22. Yes.
00:46:32
Speaker
some of them were older. Yeah, they were about that age. It was it was I would say a range of maybe 22 to 24 ish. But most of them were very early 20s. Okay. You know, and I come in there and they're like, Yeah, okay. So who the hell are you? And I mean, they knew who I was. But where's Milton? And I, I just, you know, I was like,
00:46:55
Speaker
We're just going to do this. It's going to be great. The drummer, Victor Siouen, who I still is just absolutely awesome and who I think every time I do online classes because I play
Evolving Dance Education Methods
00:47:06
Speaker
his music quite often, he and I are still very close. He had me like this. He sort of orchestrated the whole thing and he made me feel very comfortable.
00:47:19
Speaker
And within five minutes, I was having the time of my life. I mean, I was just like, and also at that point, I can't do half the stuff, I could do them, but I was just like, you know, showing everything but to the absolute fullest and doing it with them and just having, you know, and it was like a performance. And I was also then able to watch these dancers and actually see what it was that I thought might
00:47:48
Speaker
help them to, you know, attack this movement with even more precision and clarity or make their transitions more fluid. And I had never thought that was possible. And then they would take the correction and do it. And it was like,
00:48:02
Speaker
What is that? I just have some information. I'm not even better than you. I just have some information to share with you, but because my eyes are over here and I'm in this place, I get to do that? This is incredible. Afterwards, yeah, we're all applauding and cheering, and then Milton called me later that night and he's like,
00:48:24
Speaker
What did you do in there? You know, he loved it. And I said, I don't know. I just was myself. I mean, but clearly this was a part of my passion that had to be.
00:48:39
Speaker
awakened. And it's really thanks to him. It is thanks to Milton who gave me a chance, who trusted me. That set me on the path. And then I started subbing for him at STEPS at Marymount Manhattan College, where I would later start teaching as an adjunct at Ballet Arts at City Center. So it led to so many things. And it was
00:49:02
Speaker
you know, Horton, which is again, it's my primary training and I just couldn't be more thrilled to be able to pass that on. It truly enhanced me as a performer as well. He saw something in you, obviously. He saw something in you very early that just he knew what to do with you.
00:49:21
Speaker
I'm so grateful. I thank him all the time and he had just such a huge part of my life. So that's really cool. And yeah, I had no idea, but that day changed everything. So then I was like, well, this is now part of the plan as well, and we're going to do it all.
00:49:44
Speaker
If I can't afford a class, I'll just teach it myself. Then I'll get rehearsal after that. As a teacher, you also have to be so vulnerable. You have to be open to putting yourself out there. Throughout that young age, not only did you have the confidence because of your talents, but now you have this extra layer of confidence that you can orchestrate a whole dance class. That's going to be such an important skill to have in your future.
00:50:11
Speaker
huge yeah and it took you know I've definitely changed a lot as a teacher and I actually I kind of love being old now well I'm not old but I'm ancient for dance let's face it but you know what I love that I can actually because of experience and because of the ability to verbally articulate to myself which I really didn't have because I hadn't practiced it as much before
00:50:35
Speaker
I don't have to show every single thing and you think I have to be like an Olympic champion in every class. Like, I would do backflips for them, anything, you know, just to get people's attention. You know, like, no, look at me, I can do stuff. You know, like, so now it's really nice to
00:50:56
Speaker
to have, you know, evolved into another era of it where I'm also just learning so much from them. And it's really cool to be a dean and have the opportunity to see the same students on a consistent basis. And then, you know, with the fact that they have access to the incredible magical Amanda Donahue. I have so many names for her. I'm like the goddess.
00:51:20
Speaker
and that we get to work together, it teaches me so much of what is possible when you actually have time and you have the ability to be consistent and to truly build your vocabulary. And then new courses have come out of this for me. I never thought I would be like sort of teaching like Horton principles with athletic training and Pilates, which then can be taken
00:51:50
Speaker
You know, to anyone, like it goes beyond dance and the dance studio. I was sort of had a very specific population that I was teaching in New York with a few variations. But this has been really cool. And as a teacher, you know, you want to expand, you want to evolve. If you're not, then, you know, please go, because what's the point? You've got to be open and understand that you don't know everything. I think that's really fun. I don't know anything. I love that.
00:52:20
Speaker
You know so much my goodness.
00:52:23
Speaker
I think that's one of my favorite things about working with Christina too in the Horton technique. Growing up as a performer, my training was primarily ballet and ballroom. I hadn't had exposure to modern before. When I saw Horton technique for the first time, I was seeing these performers learning how to squat and learning how to hinge basic strength and conditioning principles of movement patterns that you want anyone to be able to do. I think that
00:52:51
Speaker
That just blew my mind. I was like, oh, this is amazing. This is amazing for a dancer to be able to learn this, especially for someone who might not have that exposure to modern. And maybe their background is primarily ballet. To be able to own that skill, not only in a turned out position, but a parallel position, I think is really intriguing to me. So I think that's why I love the Horton technique so much. She's very good at it. I'm a very good teacher, too, Christina. Yes.
00:53:20
Speaker
So how would you articulate the Horton technique if you're trying to explain it to somebody as far as compared to like, you know, Graham or other ones like that?
00:53:29
Speaker
Oh, wow. Oh, gosh. Do we have a whole other podcast for this? OK. So I think it really can be defined by its generosity, its expansiveness, its absolutely limitless length. It's very physical. It's very athletic. And there are all these super impressive lines
00:53:54
Speaker
But what we don't see, and this is where there can be some misrepresentation, those lines cannot happen without curves and spirals and circles and understanding how to soften and allowing yourself to be vulnerable and transition between making all of these very impressive shapes. And that's where it's been really cool for me to use the Hawkins technique
00:54:18
Speaker
which is all about having a super duper strong core, but with limbs that are almost like ribbons or tassels or like they're underwater. So I use kind of the Hawkins philosophy in order to allow the dancers to experience these really sharp, clean, angular shapes in a different way, which I think is just, you know, it's good for the body to be able to breathe and make a circle before you make a line. If you're just doing line, line, line, line, line, you're just gonna,
00:54:47
Speaker
Jam yourself up, but it is Lester created this technique on the west coast and I've heard a lot of people say this, you know Everybody a lot of the other, you know, modern dance pioneers were in New York City. They're very different You know, he had all of this space he had also he spent a lot of time on on Native American territory and grounds where he also there there was there's air and nature and and there's just this sense of like
00:55:17
Speaker
It's a generous technique, and he was a very, very generous, completely inclusive, wonderful, curious, imaginative person who also
00:55:32
Speaker
wanted, you know, everyone to feel welcome like they were able to participate. And he created this technique with the hopes that it would not stylize or label any dancer, but you would just become as long and strong and fierce and fabulous as you needed to be to do whatever the hell you need to do on this planet. And a lot of those dancers of the people from the theater have gone on to be, you know,
00:55:58
Speaker
famous designers, performers, people in the fashion world, but also doctors and healers. But it's also from West Side Story to the Alvin Ailey legacy.
00:56:15
Speaker
I think that, you know, this theater was really a place where people could grow and feel like they were supported and feel like they were welcome. But if you don't work your ass off, you're not gonna get anywhere. And it's
Future Focus for Dance Students
00:56:30
Speaker
just this incredibly, very impressive physical, wonderful technique, which there was one article in Dance Magazine where I just love it. It's described, Horton dancers can be described as human skyscrapers.
00:56:44
Speaker
And I just love that. It's never ending, but you've got to have these really strong foundations, which are rooted in what looks like these very linear shapes. But those skyscrapers, they're like swerving up. They're not just built like that. So I don't know. I hope that made some sense. A fluid physicality, it sounds like. Yeah.
00:57:12
Speaker
Yeah. His heyday was in the 20s to the 40s, right? His technique was developed a long time ago. Yes, correct, correct. It seems like it's kind of a timeless aspect of it, which seems like it's coming into its own now, the inclusiveness of it and the physicality and ballet now is much more prevalent now than ever before.
00:57:29
Speaker
Absolutely. And yeah, that's a really good point that you bring up and that Amanda pointed out as well, is I've had always really good feedback from ballet dancers who said, I never really connected with modern or I didn't really think I liked modern, but like this, you know, like this part. And it's also because it's
00:57:50
Speaker
it is codified and you kno it's not ambiguous. It is You know, if you're not d it's not correct, but we' there. Um and then if yo to, you know, like the a or have your head tipped
00:58:09
Speaker
floor while the leg is po Well, let's bring it up t and then let's do it in i it's very scientific. It' logical and while it's su and I know it hurts, but comes without a little st broken down and it can a safe way where your,
00:58:36
Speaker
properly with the correct information and guidance. It's not ambiguous. What are the arms doing? I don't know. No, they're here. I think that makes it a really great training tool. It's very strengthening and it's a wonderful way to sculpt the body while also staying true to a legacy, which is an art form. For
Wellness and Resources for Dancers
00:59:03
Speaker
me, it's just the most awesome combination of
00:59:06
Speaker
everything that I love.
00:59:10
Speaker
So let's, so all the information you guys have gained from this pandemic, from your careers, and you both are so experienced in your fields now. So what is now as you two work together for this, you know, for the Dean College year 21, 22, and not, and beyond, because you guys have a really, really powerful role in shaping future professional dancers to this college. So what are the big issues now that you're going to be focusing on in the future? What kind of things really need to be emphasized with our future dancers in performing arts?
00:59:48
Speaker
um okay it actually kind of reverts back to what we were what we were just discussing earlier about you know how do you want to implement what you've learned through this era um and i think um you know as far as collaborating with amanda um and and and you know me individually as a teacher but she's always with me so it's always collaboration
01:00:01
Speaker
either person can go. That's a good question. That's a really good question.
01:00:11
Speaker
in another room. I would love to see how we can encourage these dancers to work with other fabulous mentors and with other inspiring
01:00:28
Speaker
not only artists but you know perhaps trainers or people in the field using the technology that we have now using the availability that we have now using all of these new platforms. You don't have to wait until you can actually you know get a plane ticket to go somewhere to get certified. I would encourage I want to encourage them to gain as much knowledge as they possibly can while also supporting each other and continuing to
01:00:55
Speaker
make sure that they understand that the beauty of this art form is that we are live and in person. But that information is available to us everywhere. And I think just as far as our creations, our collaborations go, I'm actually working on
01:01:10
Speaker
creating a new video project now where I want them to create their own instructional videos after Amanda comes in to work with them on whatever it is that they need most work on, which I never know until I walk in the room. Can't, sorry, you know, can't plan the syllabus three years in advance, even though they want us to. No, it's not happening in dance. So she's going to come in and and we will assess, you know, what it is they need to work on. We'll break it down to maybe two or three exercises and then
01:01:39
Speaker
I'd love to have them show the dance study or the combination that they've learned and video themselves in a way that's not just like you know stick your phone on a bookshelf but you know do this as if we were maybe you're you know submitting this for someone else to view
01:01:55
Speaker
could be an audition and then create an instructional video where you and the dancers, you know, we have a trainer and then we have their clients and they can switch back and forth. And I'm still kind of working on the logistics of that, but using
01:02:10
Speaker
using video and using technology to also sort of play around and practice on their own and then create an assignment out of that. So we actually have this collaboration that is then going to go a little bit further. I would like to see where they can take that. So that's one idea that I had, and I'd like to see if we can come up with other interesting projects that incorporate these different
01:02:36
Speaker
skills that we're all going to need that are just nothing is going away, but we just have more magic tricks that we're adding to our bag of repertoire.
01:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, something I also wanted to kind of ask both of you, in addition to the question that Steve just asked, is how do you guys, you know, what's your role in also encouraging your dancers to practice healthy nutritional behaviors? Like as a dietician, that's something I always love asking dance teachers and athletic trainers, you know,
01:03:08
Speaker
what's something that you guys have learned during this process too, and how do you hope to implement healthy behaviors as well? Not only meeting with an athletic trainer, but what other lifestyle tips would you be giving your dancers?
01:03:24
Speaker
Sure. That's something that I really try to hit with all of my performers are some of the basics, like how are you feeling your body? How are you sleeping? What are your hydration levels? That's always a conversation that I'm going to have with them. And then also, how are you doing from a mental health standpoint? But talking to them really
01:03:42
Speaker
identifying that nutrition is a tool to be utilized to help fuel their bodies and that they are athletes and their bodies deserve to be fueled. Because I think that's something, during the pandemic, a lot of them, their bodies change. All of us, right? At some point, whether that's an increase in weight or decrease in weight or change in size, what have you, but that's something to really bring it back to that mindset that you are fueling your bodies as an athlete and as a performer.
01:04:10
Speaker
And that's something I talk about all the time. I mean, notoriously, the dancers, very minimal protein consumption. And that's something I really try to hit and emphasize, okay, that protein is really going to help you repair those muscles into be the strong, lean dancer that you're looking for. And, you know, and then pairing that with, well, how are you sleeping at night and, you know, college lifestyle, it's maybe five, six hours a night.
01:04:34
Speaker
And they're going to bed at 12, 1, sometimes 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. And they have these unrealistic goals of, oh, I'm going to have this six pack. And it's like, well, it's not going to happen with that sleep schedule. Sorry to tell you. And just the hydration levels too, just all those things and how that plays into recovery and from a performance element.
01:04:53
Speaker
And on top of that, when it gets to a point that I feel that they need that additional guidance, absolutely referring out to a registered dietician. And we have someone who specializes in working with dancers through Boston Children's Hospital that we do refer to. So I do not hesitate to refer out whenever they have specific questions or I really think that
01:05:13
Speaker
potential underlying disordered eating or eating disordered behavior is presenting itself, I'm gonna refer out no hesitation there, along with mental health referral as well too for support for them. Yeah, I think what's so key and I think it's great that you guys are both emphasizing that just meeting all of your nutrition needs, whether that's from carbohydrates, proteins, fats, and then getting adequate hydration is really what's gonna be key
01:05:41
Speaker
to helping prevent injury, in addition to working with your athletic trainer. So I think that's so great. And I continue to encourage all health professionals to encourage all of that. Amanda, I also just want to ask you
01:05:57
Speaker
We work with a lot of dancers that might not be in the collegiate environment yet. So if you can share how dancers can reach out to an athletic trainer, that would be wonderful when they may not be in that collegiate setting. Absolutely.
01:06:12
Speaker
So there are two organizations that come to mind, well actually three or four actually. So first one being the Performing Arts Athletic Trainers Society. So that is an organization that is all performing arts ATs that we absolutely take questions and can connect you with an AT in your area. Also Doctors for Dancers, that is where athletic trainers, like a performer could look up on the Doctors for Dancers website, find a provider that specializes
01:06:39
Speaker
in performing arts in their area as well. There are a number of A.T.s that are doing or in their own private practice that are available for care as well. There's also the National Athletic Training Association organization. I am the chair for the Performing Arts Committee within our Council of Practice Advancement. So we are also trying to increase job opportunities for athletic trainers specifically in the performing arts, but we also act as resources
01:07:06
Speaker
for any parents or young performers that are looking to connect with an AT in our area. We're always keeping our ear to the ground for that. Wonderful. Yeah. And also at your risk. So this is something at your own risk. That is the website specifically for athletic training and people that are interested in learning more about athletic training, potential employers as well. That's a way to connect with ATs and find out more about what we can do and offer.
01:07:38
Speaker
Great.
Conclusion
01:07:39
Speaker
Well, Christina, Amanda, I know you guys are being as shy and introverted as you are. It took a long time to get you guys out of your shell. And we appreciate your strong effort to utter a few words on behalf of yourselves. And we really appreciate having both of you here. It was a wonderful conversation. Thanks so much. I'm so impressed by your energy and your enthusiasm, your passion. And I'm jealous of the collaboration you guys get to have with each other. So it's about the great work. And we hope to talk to you very soon.
01:08:02
Speaker
your program.
01:08:08
Speaker
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. And thanks to you, Yasi. Another great episode as always. Yes, thank you. Well, that wraps up this episode. For everyone listening, we thank you so much for listening in. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and you'll get our newest episode set out to you automatically. For Yasi Ansari, this is Stephen Karaginas, and you've been listening to the Athletes in the Arts podcast.