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Comics Catch-Up 073: She-Hulk (2014)
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You demanded it, we read it! The 12-issue Charles Soule/Javier Pulido run on She-Hulk from 2014 tries to come at the character from a law focus. How well does it pull that off?
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Transcript
Introduction and Zencastr Recording
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Listener-Suggested Comics Recap
00:00:25
Speaker
to start recording your own podcast. Oh my god, it's carnage! I think it's a foxhole in the world! This is Comics Catch-Up!
00:00:37
Speaker
Hey, twerp! You better not be lying! Come on! Look at my comic!
00:00:51
Speaker
where we read comics suggested by you, the listeners of War Rocket Apex, that we have missed. Oh, hey, it's been a while.
00:01:02
Speaker
We should catch up. Comics catch up, that is.
Review of She-Hulk Series
00:01:06
Speaker
This is the show where I, Chris Sims, and my longtime partner, Matt Wilson,
00:01:14
Speaker
Catch up on the comics that we might have missed, whether they're from ages past or a mere decade. Or like sooner than that, too, sometimes.
00:01:28
Speaker
This book that we're talking about this month is from 11 years ago, or at least that's when it started. And a lot of books ended because of Secret Wars. Yeah.
00:01:42
Speaker
In 2015? I'm not sure that's the case with this. It seems like it just ended. it seems like it was 12 issues and done. Yeah, because it doesn't it doesn't come back, right? There's no... It does not come back ah that I'm aware of. it And it ended before Secret Wars really got going. It ended in February of 2015. Yeah.
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. yeah So... I think the next She-Hulk series we got was 2018. Yeah, that seems... That would be She-Hulk Volume 4. Let's see. Let's see when She-Hulk Volume 4 is listed as starting. 2018. Yes.
00:02:27
Speaker
And that was only ah few issues that was... Legacy numbered 159 to And then I think it was the Rainbow Rowell She-Hulk after that. Yeah, the 2022 one.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. America Tamaki did the Volume 4.
00:02:49
Speaker
Anyway. Yes, it was it was the Rainbow Rowell She-Hulk after that, which lasted for... 15 issues and then relaunched his Sensational She-Hulk Volume 2. You gotta relaunch it, baby.
00:03:04
Speaker
You gotta relaunch. Relaunch it, even though this book never got a relaunch. And look, we did a poll asking people what we should read next, and this overwhelmingly won the poll.
00:03:17
Speaker
ah this This volume of She-Hulk by Charles Soule and mostly Javier Pulido.
00:03:25
Speaker
I'm going to go ahead and say this up front. I think it is just okay. It's pretty good.
00:03:35
Speaker
Just okay to pretty good is what I would call this run of She-Hulk. I mean, it's gorgeous. It is. I mean, ah well, except for in the issues that harve Javier Pulido doesn't draw.
00:03:46
Speaker
i think yeah those issues don't look so hot, um but they're weird. um Ron Wimberley is the artist on those. Now, I usually really like Ron Wimberley, but his issue does look... It's a weird read.
00:04:04
Speaker
And maybe that's just because it's dramatically different from Javier Pulido. There is a lot of playing around with perspective those Ron Wimberley issues. There's a lot of... like elongation and ah putting making things real big in the foreground. lot of fisheye lenses in yeah those issues. like i'm watching ah Like I'm watching a skate video from the 90s.
00:04:30
Speaker
And it also reminds me of kind of like the animation style from like Eon Flux. that's she very It's a very different look to the rest of the book.
00:04:43
Speaker
um But even in the Javier Pulido issues... I sort of feel like you the art is a little bit... Wasted is too strong of a word.
00:04:55
Speaker
But I don't know if Javier Pulido is the best match for this. Because... Charles Hull got hired as a former attorney to write a She-Hulk book about her being an attorney.
00:05:11
Speaker
And like... There is some superhero action in here, but a lot of it is talking and in courtrooms and in offices.
Art and Storyline Discussion
00:05:24
Speaker
And I feel like you want Javier Pulido art to be very kinetic and active. I mean... i mean I kind of want Javier Pulido to draw a bunch of talkie scenes, because I think he's an artist who can pull it off.
00:05:41
Speaker
He can make them interesting, at least. Yeah, like, Pulido is one of my absolute favorite artists. ah He's great. I mean, do not get me wrong. yeah He's great, and his art in this is great.
00:05:54
Speaker
It's just... it I feel like I want to see him doing stuff that's like... Big and dynamic and action-y, and there's a lot of this book that's not.
00:06:08
Speaker
um But anyway, let's get into what the the events of the series. um The book opens with Jen Walters, She-Hulk, who I don't think ever appears not hulked out in this series.
00:06:26
Speaker
She is fully hulked. well When they're trying to avoid the Doom bots, she is briefly Jennifer Walters. That's the only time. I gotta say, that before we before we get to that, we got these beautiful Kevin Wada covers.
00:06:42
Speaker
They're very good, yeah. they Again, they don't... They're good. they They don't match the interior art, which is a little weird, but... They are good.
00:06:52
Speaker
They are very good covers, yes. the The first issues cover is like She-Hulk stepping out of a hole in the wall in the shape of herself.
00:07:04
Speaker
sin Doing like a big muscle pose, which is pretty fun. um But anyway, so she starts out working for a big firm, and she gets fired because the partners in the firm want her to be bringing in like superhero clients.
She-Hulk vs Tony Stark Legal Battle
00:07:21
Speaker
And she hasn't been doing that. She's just been building billing a lot of hours. And... That's not what they wanted from her, so she destroys their big, nice table.
00:07:36
Speaker
And I do like that panel a lot, where she splits the table in half with like one finger. yes Did you get that the name of the law firm was a joke? Payne and Luckberg?
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah. Because it's not until it is pointed out by a character in the book later on that I got that this was a joke. but I don't even know what it is. What is the joke?
00:08:01
Speaker
It's P&L. Profit and Loss. Oh, I see. Which is, buddy, that's that's that's Lawyer FHO.
00:08:14
Speaker
That is... there i There are a few things in here that are Lawyer FHO, I feel like. um But Jin dramatically quits and goes to a bar to drink, goes to the lawyer bar to drink, and is immediately approached by someone who brings her a case.
00:08:36
Speaker
Even though she's not working at a firm anymore, she's she's going to take this case on as an independent lawyer, and it is it is the widow of
00:08:51
Speaker
Harrow. Uh, what's the guy's name? her dead husband. I, do not remember. He's like a C list villain. It's Arthur Harrow.
00:09:04
Speaker
Uh, he was, maybe he was just Arthur Harrow. Maybe he didn't have a, a code name. He was, he had one appearance in Moon Knight, volume two, number two.
00:09:17
Speaker
ah But her name is Holly Harrow, and she thinks that Tony Stark has stolen an invention of her husband's um that he patented.
00:09:31
Speaker
And so Jen is like, I'll just talk to Tony, and we'll get this cleared up, and we can settle it. So she goes and tries to talk to Tony at Stark Industries. And is instead sent to Legal, who is just a guy whose name is Legal.
00:09:46
Speaker
I did kind of like this bit. I loved this bit, actually. Legal being a character is good. I would like for Legal to come back. Stark Legal. ah to come back. Because, yes, this is good.
00:09:59
Speaker
yeah she gets She gets sent to him. he is on one floor oh Tony Stark's building that is only for him. That is a super long room with one desk. It's like something out of control.
00:10:17
Speaker
It's very much like that, yes. it's it's It's like, yeah you know, that that parody of bureaucracy that you see in lots of things.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah. And I, I do like that. Like, of course, Tony Stark has like this terrible legal department. He's, he's Tony Stark, you know, like he he would, he would have to.
00:10:46
Speaker
yeah Oh, his name was Jonas Harrow. So that's a different guy. ah but he he, was killed by the hood. That's who this guy is. I think that is mentioned in there.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah. ah Anyway, he talks and talks and talks and talks at She-Hulk. And she's like, you're giving me the runaround, I'll see you in court.
00:11:11
Speaker
And she gets to court and there's just this like army of lawyers who are going to throw everything they can at the case to tie up before it can move forward.
00:11:27
Speaker
And so She-Hulk has to go to try try to find something that's like the smoking gun that can will be the evidence that's totally convincing that this was his invention and that Tony Stark took it.
00:11:43
Speaker
She finds a tape that... essentially does that in a storage unit. And she muscles her way in to see Tony Stark himself. And Tony's like, oh yeah, I got legal working for me. He just, you know, he helps me out, but like, he's one of those guys, you know, he just works for me.
00:12:01
Speaker
But, but like, we can work this out. And like, he clearly like, you know, loves and respects She-Hulk. And she gets him to write a check that she then gives to Harrow's widow for her.
00:12:15
Speaker
A lot of money. She ends up getting paid $150,000. yeah it's ah Tony Stark asks how much money he made from the the patent, and she's like $8 million. dollars So presumably that's about what she gets.
00:12:29
Speaker
ah but yeah She-Hulk's piece of it is $150,000. And she uses that to open her new independent law office, and that's the first
The Blue File Meta Plot
00:12:39
Speaker
issue. Which is a pretty solid first issue.
00:12:41
Speaker
um like It accomplishes a lot in a single issue. It's maybe the best issue of the run, if I'm being honest. I think there's some fun stuff later on.
00:12:55
Speaker
but But as far as like a single issue... it it is It's very much a pilot. you know it is a It is a vertical slice of this comic. It is, hey, definitean here's what this comic is.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it it gets through that whole story in one issue. um it In pretty good order. um The second issue, she's opened her law law office.
00:13:21
Speaker
She's not... getting any cases. She doesn't have any clients. And also she's looking through this folder, the blue file, she calls it, which is all about this case that she doesn't even remember.
00:13:37
Speaker
But she is listed as a defendant in it. Which will become like the meta plot of the whole series. yeah um She meets her landlord who is, you know,
00:13:52
Speaker
A nice landlord. She's an ex-mutant who lost her powers on M-Day. Her name's Sharon King. And so she has a building that that is called the Idea Hive.
00:14:05
Speaker
that is a It's ah it's a startup incubator space for superhumans, which is which is a pretty fun idea that is one of those like fun little things that is going to come up again in like in like 16 years.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. but Because this is only a 12-issue series, it doesn't really get explored all that much. Except for any time there is any kind of superhero fight inside the Idea Hive, your insurance costs go up.
00:14:47
Speaker
Because presumably ah the rates go up, Sharon's rates go up, and so she's got to charge that that tenant more. Yeah, she charges more for rent to cover the insurance.
00:15:01
Speaker
ah But only if it can be definitively tied to you. Right. Also, Jen hires a paralegal. When they see Jen, when most of the candidates see Jen, they leave. Right.
00:15:14
Speaker
And that leaves behind only one person, Angie won angie Huang, who um has a ah ah monkey that she brings everywhere with her.
00:15:28
Speaker
And is a very, very interesting character that like I feel like Soul might have had much, much bigger plans for. Yeah, there's nothing in this entire comic that seems like I had bigger plans for this.
00:15:44
Speaker
than this character. Because, like, you you said everybody gets leaves when they see Jen. I think she makes them leave. It's possible, yeah. Yeah.
00:15:54
Speaker
yeah She's got some kind of power of persuasion. yeah um She's got powers and the monkey also has powers, but it's never really clearly defined what they are.
00:16:05
Speaker
It is unclear if the monkey is a power. Yes, but she refuses to go anywhere without her. That that is clear.
00:16:15
Speaker
ah So Jen makes some phone calls. ah She tries to get some clients. They all tell her that her ex-firm, the firm she just worked for before this, at the start of this, um has been bad-mouthing her around town.
00:16:36
Speaker
So they don't want to sign on to be clients. So Jen just leaves and goes and drinks ah
00:16:43
Speaker
with ah Patsy Walker. And they get trashed. And then they go out and ah fight some crime. They go fight some aim guys.
00:16:55
Speaker
And they're big robot. Which, ah I love Javier Polito's design of a big aim robot that looks like an aim guy. Yes. with that With that shaped head.
00:17:07
Speaker
It's very good. Yeah. These are some classic comic book robots. Very much so. ah So hungover, Jen comes to work. Angie's already there and finds out that there's a client who's waiting for her. And it is dr Doom's son, ah Christoph Bernard, who wants to defect from Latveria. Yeah.
00:17:31
Speaker
So the next story is all about She-Hulk trying to help Kristoff defect. He's been in the U.S. for almost a full year, which means that they have to go like get his paperwork to defect today.
00:17:50
Speaker
ah So they rush to try to go to the judge, but his chauffeur is a Doombot, and who attacks immediately and tries to take him to the airport so he can go back to Latveria.
00:18:03
Speaker
ah She-Hulk has to rush him back to the courthouse, and then in the courthouse, or before they can get into the courthouse, they're attacked by Doom bots. They get to the courthouse, they file the necessary ah paperwork and and get him approved for asylum, but then Doom shows up and takes him away.
00:18:25
Speaker
That's that issue. Yeah. ah Issue four is She-Hulk going to Latveria try to get Kristoff back, to be the the ah zealous advocate for her client, for Kristoff, after talking to Matt Murdock about
Kristoff's Defection from Latveria
00:18:48
Speaker
it.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, she goes to she goes California, talks a little bit to to Matt, who's like, hey, I was just in Latveria. It sucks. Yeah. yeah That's that story with Claw in it. It sure is, yeah. yeah
00:19:03
Speaker
So what ends up happening is that She-Hulk tells Doom what the actual problem is for Kristoff, which is not that he doesn't want to rule at Veria, it's that he does ah he wants to be able to rule it on his own instead of being under his dad's thumb.
00:19:21
Speaker
and And be Doom's servant. And Doom sort of understands that. And they sort of come to an agreement. Also, there's been a whole thing throughout this story about how Kristoff keeps paying She-Hulk Latverian money, which is illegal.
00:19:41
Speaker
yes And so they can't actually use it. Which is pretty good. That's a pretty good joke. ah because She-Hulk is desperate for money to keep her her practice open.
00:19:58
Speaker
She-Hulk also tells ah Patsy Walker and Angie about the blue file and how she doesn't really remember it or anything about it, and so they're going to try to investigate it in the next issue, which they do.
00:20:10
Speaker
And then these next two issues are the ones with the Ron Wimberly art, which is very... i don't know, it's weird. It looks weird. Yeah, I don't I don't dislike it, but it is weird and in some places kind of hard to follow. yeah And that that fish lens effect is all over it.
00:20:32
Speaker
Like that kind of perspective. I said it reminds me of Eon Flux, which it kind of does. But what it reminds me of even more is, do you remember the Men in Black cartoon?
00:20:43
Speaker
I do not remember the Men in Black cartoon. There was a Men in Black cartoon, and it looked exactly like this. Wild? That must have been wild cartoon. It was.
00:20:56
Speaker
It was pretty fun, but like the animation style was odd. So in this issue, She-Hulk, Hellcat, and Angie all split up and go to different places to talk to different people who were in the blue file.
00:21:11
Speaker
So She-Hulk goes and talks to Shocker. Angie goes to North Dakota, where this thing apparently happened, to try to Finds some paperwork at the courthouse.
00:21:24
Speaker
And. ah Hellcat goes and sees Tigra. And. Tigra just kind of like. Fugues out. And attacks Hellcat. Like.
00:21:37
Speaker
Scratches her on the stomach. With her claws. And then doesn't realize what she did. After the fact. yeah ah She-Hulk and Shocker talk.
00:21:49
Speaker
And Shocker's kind of just like, I don't remember any of it either. ah So like, I don't know if I remember anything, I'll let you know.
00:22:01
Speaker
And Angie also like ends up in like the, the court clerk shoots her.
00:22:13
Speaker
Like there's a, we see the, him holding the gun And then the casing coming out of the gun, it says, pop. um So it it the issue ends with Hellcat frantically trying to call Jen for help. Then issue six, Hellcat's in the hospital.
00:22:35
Speaker
She-Hulk feels bad.
00:22:38
Speaker
Angie gets like dumped out in the snow outside the courthouse while the courthouse burns. And Jen tries to talk to ah Kevin Trench about what happened.
00:22:52
Speaker
And hes he like sort of charms her, but then a big attack happens inside the office. yeah Which leads to a little monster's attack.
00:23:05
Speaker
ah Which leads to, of course, an increased ah insurance rate. There's also a part where Jen... extra hulks out in here where her hair gets weird and she gets even bigger
00:23:21
Speaker
yeah she seems to have the ability to be she hulk but also like like go superci super and become like like the hulk yeah Like, get even bigger and more hulky, which is kind of fun.
00:23:40
Speaker
um don't know. I i like it when a superhero has a second form. I sort of remember that from, like,
00:23:48
Speaker
the Avengers from around this time, where she would, like, get bigger and stronger and... but also kind of lose her mind a little bit. Yeah. um Now, also, of course, y'all remember Dr. Kevin Trench. Y'all remember Nightwatch.
00:24:03
Speaker
Nightwatch. Maximum Carnage. That's right, Nightwatch. He's there. He's here. terry kavanaugh Terry Kavanaugh's Kevin Trench.
00:24:14
Speaker
ah he's He's also listed as a ah defendant in that case. But he says... He also like claims to not remember any of it.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, yeah, look, I was a superhero for a while, but then I kind of quit. yeah Because being superhero is hard, and also I'm rich, so I just do a lot of charity work. Javier Pulido comes back, thankfully, in issue seven.
00:24:42
Speaker
Which is a single-issue story about a guy who also works in the building at the Idea Hive. This is probably the best use of the Idea at de Hive in the run.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah. So this other tenant has developed technology that he can use to shrink things.
00:25:07
Speaker
um that's He claims to be more affordable than Pym Particles. like It could be like used by consumers. yeah but Basically, you'll you'll order whatever you want from Amazon, they'll shrink it down, ship it to you, and then you can return it to its full size, and that way shipping costs will go down.
00:25:26
Speaker
yeah But you'll still get the full-size things that you order. It's called Shrinko. Shrinko. But he has a partner that... won't sell to this unnamed buyer because he was just like adamant about not selling to this buyer. He didn't want to work with the buyer.
00:25:50
Speaker
So She-Hulk and Hellcat go and find Hank Pym, and they shrink down and try to find this guy in like this yard where he apparently is.
00:26:04
Speaker
And they find him. they They eventually find him inside a soda can.
00:26:11
Speaker
in In a very Honey, I Shrunk the Kids style story. Yeah. After they're almost attacked by a kitty cat.
00:26:21
Speaker
So that they they bring the guy guy back to like his regular size. And turns out Hank Pym was the buyer the whole time. Yeah. Because because the problem with Shrinko is that if you ah use it on someone, then their atoms become unstable and essentially will create a nuclear bomb.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yes, it's it's fine for like inorganic material, but if you use it on a person, it is deadly and can explode. And there's a whole thing where... like this This partner cut the tip of his finger on the soda can, and She-Hulk throws in the air and it explodes.
00:27:09
Speaker
So yeah, Hank's trying to like protect these guys from themselves, and he ends up buying the technology, buying the patent. Then the issue ends with Captain America, old man Captain America showing up.
00:27:23
Speaker
ah to ask Jen to represent him. And in issue eight, he explains what that is for. Well, hang on. I will say, number seven does have my favorite moment in the entire series.
00:27:35
Speaker
Okay. Which is when... ah Jen's like, yeah, this guy's a partner. He invented a shrink ray and he's missing. So I figured he would just shrink me. She calls up Hank Pym and she says, yeah, he's just going to shrink me and Patsy and we're going to go look for it. But I, you know, I wanted to kind of run it past you first just to make sure. And he goes, do not do any of the things you just said you were going to do, which is very funny.
00:28:04
Speaker
So, old Steve Rogers, who I don't remember how he got old in 2014. I also don't remember how he got old. I have memory hold Steve Rogers being a 90-year-old man.
00:28:16
Speaker
i think it was because he was in Dimension Z. Yeah. But also, that may have happened earlier than this. i i it It never explains it in here.
00:28:30
Speaker
ah No, it was because he was in Dimension z because it was around the same time. Yeah, that little girl? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that little girl in Dimension for 90 years or whatever?
00:28:43
Speaker
Yes. That's weird. Yep. Anyway, he's an old man now, and he is being sued for wrongful death.
00:28:56
Speaker
And this is the story that got submitted to us for every story ever.
Steve Rogers' Wrongful Death Case
00:29:01
Speaker
I do not like this story. It's very stretched out. It's very stretched out. and It feels slow. It is so tortured in trying to figure out a way to make Steve Rogers be in danger of having his legacy tarnished by a lawsuit.
00:29:25
Speaker
Where it makes Steve essentially... The person who has brought this problem on himself.
00:29:36
Speaker
I mean, it's ultimately revealed to be ah villain behind it all.
00:29:42
Speaker
But Steve does not make it any better for himself. because like here's the cook So, okay, he comes to Jen and he says, I'm being sued for wrongful death by the family of this guy I knew ah long time ago before I became Captain America.
00:30:00
Speaker
And Jen says, okay, well, I can probably just get it thrown out. And Steve goes, no, I don't want you to do that. I want to win fair and square. I want to win in court and clear my name.
00:30:15
Speaker
Which, okay, fine. I can understand that. But then it just starts like stacking one thing on top of another to make it seem like Captain America could lose this case.
00:30:29
Speaker
Which, to me, look, I'm not the lawyer here. Charles Soule is the lawyer here. This seems like the flimsiest case I've ever heard in my entire It really seems flimsy. Like, no one would hear this and and be like, well, obviously it's Captain America's fault.
00:30:45
Speaker
You know? Like, I can't imagine that happening. So, the events as they're presented at the start is that Steve and another guy, a friend of his,
00:30:58
Speaker
travel to California.
00:31:02
Speaker
they It's l L.A. They go to l L.A. two This is in the 30s. To tell Steve's friend's brother to get out of what initially just seems like an organized crime situation.
00:31:19
Speaker
And while the criminals are threatening all three of them, steve the brother the his buddy and his brother, Steve says something that leads to the brother getting shot.
00:31:39
Speaker
And so Steve is being sued for wrongful death because he said something that led a criminal to shoot the other guy. Already this sounds very flimsy.
00:31:52
Speaker
Like, just because Steve told a criminal... That he sucked does not make him responsible for this guy's death. Yeah, because it's not like he says, hey, shoot that guy. Don't shoot me. Shoot that guy.
00:32:07
Speaker
No. The guy says, hey, shut up or I'm going to shoot you. And Steve is like, fuck you, buddy. Yeah. Steve basically says, like, we're not going to do what you say because you're bad men.
00:32:21
Speaker
And like, this is presented as the reason why he is could be liable for this guy's death? Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. like i Like, look, again, I'm not the lawyer here.
00:32:34
Speaker
If Charles Soule was like, this is absolutely a case that could exist. Okay. Yeah, but like then it turns out that it wasn't like just an organized crime thing.
00:32:47
Speaker
These guys were Nazis. They were Nazis. They were like fifth columnists. they they're like qui They're like Nazi saboteurs working in America. And Steve is basically saying, you want to kill me, you go right ahead, but you're never going to win because you're a Nazi and that's a flawed ideology.
00:33:05
Speaker
And you can fuck off with that. And the guy's like, oh, well, you're weak, so I'm going to leave you alive to continue polluting the gene pool. And he shoots the other guy instead.
00:33:16
Speaker
And, like,
00:33:20
Speaker
for some reason, Steve can't say, like, oh, they were Nazis. Like, it's classified. And I'm like, motherfucker, that was 80 years ago. Well, but but there's a lot of writing around how this can be a case to begin with.
00:33:33
Speaker
yeah Because it was 80 years ago. And so there's some kind of like explanation of because the the ah Steve's old buddy confessed this happening on his deathbed or talked about this happening on his deathbed, this case can move forward.
00:33:56
Speaker
Which, okay, fine. But to it is such a cut-and-dried It is so like... it is so like No, the person responsible for this guy's death is the Nazi who shot him.
00:34:09
Speaker
The Nazi who shot him. That for some reason we can't... Steve will not... Steve like takes the stand and he's like, that whole story was true. And... And... Like... He has to... Like...
00:34:26
Speaker
He... Like... I guess he does eventually say, like, but also that guy was a Nazi? Yeah. Yeah. But like and then that's the end of the case, right? like The end.
00:34:37
Speaker
I mean, it I think if the case should have been over before that. Yeah, like probably. Even if these guys are just mobsters, the guy who pulls the trigger is responsible, not Steve Rogers for saying, like, hey, fuck you.
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah. Also, if you wanted to do this, Steve Rogers shot a guy! Steve Rogers shot that guy worked for Ultimatum! That shit was on TV!
00:35:04
Speaker
yeah It sure was! Why didn't that guy's family come out and try and sue Steve Rogers? Okay, so... so okay I'll just relay like... Have we mentioned that Matt Murdock is the plaintiff?
00:35:17
Speaker
Matt Murdock is representing the plaintiffs, yes. Yeah. So so that's what it's... that's What this feels like to me is a very tortured way to make Steve Rogers the defendant and make Matt Murdock the opposing counsel.
00:35:39
Speaker
Because it's later revealed that Steve... Made. Well, didn't make. But like. Very strongly asked. For Matt Murdock.
00:35:50
Speaker
To represent the other side.
00:35:54
Speaker
And like. Okay. Yes. I understand that Steve wants to win. on the merits. And not on a technicality.
00:36:05
Speaker
Or on anything but. The facts. But the facts. Should make it clear from very early on. So after Steve says, like, oh, yeah, these guys were Nazis, he says what he said to them, which is, who do you think you are?
00:36:27
Speaker
And the guy goes, I'm a member of the master race. And then he says, Steve says, you're an idiot. So you found a few weak lost men looking for any port in a storm and convinced them to work for you. Big deal.
00:36:39
Speaker
Any cause can find a few men to support it. There are always men willing to believe whatever you want in exchange for three squares and a roof over their heads, especially these days. You're treating it like you've already won the war. I'll tell you something, pal.
00:36:51
Speaker
You know we'll get into this war or you wouldn't be here. And when we do, you won't be facing men like these. You'll be facing our best. And then the Nazi says, stop talking or someone will die. And then Steve says – Well, when did you at Steve?
00:37:06
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. Just before that, where they were going to kill all three of them.
00:37:14
Speaker
So, like... Well, no. He's going to make the one guy shoot his brother.
00:37:19
Speaker
Well, what he says just moments before that is, kill all three, dump the bodies out to sea. So, if anything, Steve Rogers saved two lives. Yes. Yes.
00:37:29
Speaker
Because only one of them got shot.
00:37:33
Speaker
Like, man, I don't know. It's just, like, it is such a constructed... conflict that feels so ultimately flimsy.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah, and it also turns out that the guy only told his family on his deathbed two to sue Steve Rogers over all this because of Faust?
00:38:00
Speaker
Because of Faust, yeah. Or Dr. Faustus? Yes, Y'all remember Dr. Faustus from the Grunewald run? the The villain of the story is ultimately Dr. Faustus, who, like...
00:38:12
Speaker
set it up to happen and, and he gets dealt with just, but Steve punches him in the face and knocks him out.
00:38:21
Speaker
And, uh, like, yeah, man, I don't know. Like Matt Murdoch's there's, there's a, a cool visual section where it's like Matt Murdoch doing his closing argument. And it's just a big full page shot of Matt Murdoch on a white background.
00:38:38
Speaker
giving his closing argument, and there's a page like that for Jen, too. But Matt's closing argument is unbelievably weak. Like,
00:38:51
Speaker
he says, I ask you to think about the events of that night in 1940. Think about what happened in that warehouse. A wrongful death verdict requires only that Mr. Rogers caused the death of another, or contributed to that death by virtue of his wrongful action or neglect.
00:39:08
Speaker
And, like, all he did was say that the Nazis sucked. it Yeah, which, again, I don't... I mean, for now, it's not illegal. Yeah, for now.
00:39:20
Speaker
Also, like, they're suing because the guy who got killed was going to be a doctor and was also going to enlist in the war. And so they're suing based on the idea that he would have been a doctor and would have been able to provide for his family with his wages. And I'm like...
00:39:37
Speaker
Yeah, if he made it. Like, a lot of people did die in World War II. but A whole lot of people died World War II, yeah. Like, you're asking me to believe, like, three potential ah like realities here?
00:39:51
Speaker
um don't know, man. This, again, I don't know anything about about the law. i watched i watched The Practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But...
00:40:04
Speaker
it doesn't It doesn't seem like he has a case. And then the big reveal is that, like, oh, he actually didn't have a case. It was actually ah trumped up charges by by Dr. Faustus the whole time.
00:40:17
Speaker
And there's a bit where it's like, Jen and Matt and Steve are, like, walking around it like at a pier. And Jen is like, well, why did you decide to make me your defense attorney? Yeah.
00:40:32
Speaker
And Matt, the prosecutor, or the the attorney for the plaintiff. And Steve's like, well, I wanted to win, didn't I? Oh, here's another thing. They keep talking about Steve being guilty.
00:40:46
Speaker
This isn't a criminal case. Yeah, I guess he would be found liable. He would be found liable. So, like, I know Charles Soule knows the difference.
00:40:58
Speaker
I mean, I hope so, or else we know why you became a comics writer.
00:41:03
Speaker
Like, that bothered me. Like, as someone who works as a newspaper reporter who had to be able to say – know the difference between guilt in a criminal case and liability in a civil case, it seems like they would be more careful with that language.
00:41:22
Speaker
But they keep saying – like, they keep talking about Steve Rogers being guilty or not. I mean, that – In all fairness to Charles Sewell, that might be like an editorial thing where it's like, people aren't going to know. like People know guilty and innocent.
00:41:37
Speaker
They know guilty and not guilty. yeah They do not know other terms. But if you're doing the She-Hulk book where it's like, we're going we're going to make this about being a lawyer, then just have like have somebody say guilty. Have Petsy Walker say guilty.
00:41:51
Speaker
And then Jen could be like, liable. This is a civil case. yeah when you know like ah to do it Do it like J. Exactly. ah said Yeah, like, ah what is it? s Slander is spoken in print. It's libel.
00:42:05
Speaker
In print, it's libel. Yeah. ah um There's a lot that I really like ah about this story. Like, I like the idea of She-Hulk and Daredevil going against each other in court.
00:42:17
Speaker
I think that's, you know, it is mentioned earlier in the run that it's like, right like, they literally go, hey, it's weird that's never happened. Yeah, it's set up earlier. ah I like the, like, I like ah Matt Rocks, who is the Jamie Madrox clone duplicate that became an entertainment lawyer in Los Angeles and didn't rejoin up with with Jamie Madrox, and so he goes by Matt Rocks.
00:42:46
Speaker
and And that gets explained as like, oh, well, yeah, all of his – all the multiple men went back into Jamie except for me because I make him too much money. Yeah.
00:42:57
Speaker
Like, that guy's fun, and he sucks, and I think that's ah that's a good bit. I think the – you know, on a – On a technical level, like I think Steve's speech to the the Nazi is like a very Captain America
She-Hulk vs Matt Murdock
00:43:14
Speaker
sort of speech. And it's obviously it's before he becomes Captain America. So it's like little 4F Steve Rogers.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I like the idea of a story about Captain America before he was Captain America. Yeah. but um And I really like the moment that you just mentioned where um where Steve goes, look...
00:43:33
Speaker
I wanted you to take the case, Matt, because I knew that like if I told you to go hard, you would go hard. yeah like you're a good you know You're a good lawyer, and I needed someone who was good and wouldn't hold back, because it's me.
00:43:48
Speaker
And I knew if I told you, you know you would do it. And then he goes, well, why'd you hire Jen? and he goes, I didn't want to which yeah is ah Which puts Jen over big.
00:43:59
Speaker
I do think those should kind of be reversed. I agree. Like, Jen is a good lawyer, but like, she can and will lose.
00:44:10
Speaker
Whereas Matt Murdock is like established as being like, untouchable, right? like Jen, I feel like is played as kind of a very realistic lawyer and Matt Murdock is played as a super lawyer.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah. um But you know, it's a She-Hulk book. She's going to get put over. That's fine. Right. it's it It's that, because this is the She-Hulk book and not the Daredevil book. Yeah.
00:44:36
Speaker
And honestly, this is not a story that would happen in Daredevil. This is a story that would happen here. It's a story that would happen in She-Hulk. I think it would have been in a more interesting story if She-Hulk had to be the the plaintiff, though.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah. yeah If she was like i like like like Commander Riker in Measure of Man. Right. And then... the and then The guilt of having to argue against someone you respect and love.
00:45:05
Speaker
Yeah. ah Like, yeah. But, like, there's not enough time in the rest the series to deal with that anyway. because i But I also feel like this case could have been anything else.
00:45:17
Speaker
And, like, from moment one, it seems like it's fucking a wet paper bag. Yeah. You know? To me, it very much so, yeah. which And as soon as it's trivi revealed that these guys are Nazis, it's it's even worse. you know Which, I will say, i i was going to save this for the end, but like a thing I do like about this this run is that it's a bunch of stuff that like you don't usually think about lawyers being involved in in comics.
00:45:50
Speaker
In comics, every... like every legal case is like murder. You know, it's the it's the big dramatic stuff. She-Hulk deals with contract law, a guy applying for asylum, and a civil suit over ah wrongful death
Action Sequence: She-Hulk vs Titania and Volcana
00:46:09
Speaker
in this one. And patents.
00:46:11
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's like that that's the contract law. Which is, you know, that's a thing lawyers have to do. It's not all, you know, Captain America's going to go on trial for killing that guy Who worked for Ultimatum.
00:46:25
Speaker
It's not all court. And in fact, very little of it is court. And and that is and interesting thing that this run brings to light. yeah The downside is that that stuff is the dramatic and more interesting stuff. so yeah So you are kind of not doing the most interesting version of what a lawyer is if you are doing a more realistic and ah like informed take.
00:46:52
Speaker
ah So issue 11 artistically is my favorite issue of the run. It's because it's just a big fight between She-Hulk and Titania and Volcana.
00:47:04
Speaker
And like Volcana or Titania is in She-Hulk's office and like immediately just starts punching. And she like grabs She-Hulk by the by the ankle and swings her around and throws her into the air.
00:47:20
Speaker
And there's a panel where it's She-Hulk flying from Brooklyn like to New Jersey. Yeah, that's pretty great. Where there's like a map below her.
00:47:31
Speaker
That's my favorite visual of the entire series. It's really good. I liked that a lot. I wish there had been more of that kind of stuff. like More fights with that kind of stuff in it.
00:47:42
Speaker
um But, you know, the the fight here is very fun. Yeah. but Patsy Walker gets involved. Angie's monkey gets involved and reveals Hi-Hi is the monkey's name.
00:47:58
Speaker
Or is it Hey-Hey? I'm not sure. It's H-E-I. Maybe Hey-Hey. Yeah. um But it's like it gets bigger and grows wings. And it ends with because it's revealed that Angie has been investigating the blue file even though she hollk told her to stop.
00:48:18
Speaker
And so she fires her, and then Angie reveals that Nightwatch has been behind everything the
Nightwatch's Reality Shift
00:48:26
Speaker
whole time. Yeah, and she fires Angie because like it triggers something, like a post-hypnotic suggestion.
00:48:33
Speaker
Yeah. Because in the next issue, she doesn't remember firing. She's like, why would I fire her? She's great! Yeah. Well, yeah, it's the same thing that happened to Tigra a few issues ago.
00:48:43
Speaker
yeah And then we finally find out what happened. And, buddy, you know it's going to be a clusterfuck because Dr. Druid's in it. Yeah. So it's a group of villains ah that include Shocker and Nighteater and ah Dr. Druid all at Nightwatch's behest.
00:49:10
Speaker
causing this like weird vortex to show up in North Dakota. And the heroes include Tigra and photon and Shang-Chi.
00:49:21
Speaker
No, that's white wing foot. Oh, that is white wing foot. Sorry. Uh, yes, that is white wing foot. Um, But they make a town disappear.
00:49:32
Speaker
Nightwatch makes a town disappear. Yeah. He uses Shocker and Vibro and Dr. Druid to realign reality vibrationally, which is more of a DC Comics thing than a Marvel Comics thing, but that's fine. that do That's Yeah.
00:49:50
Speaker
that's f h o for sure yeah oh But ah what he does is he's like, hey, being a villain sucks, actually, so I'm going to realign reality so that everybody remembers me as a superhero, and then I'm going to go be in Maximum Carnage.
00:50:05
Speaker
Right, right. Which is exactly what happens. Right. She-Hulk figures out what happened, and so they confront Nightwatch. And the the the reason there was a legal case about it is because there was one guy from the town that got disappeared who survived.
00:50:30
Speaker
He got near disabued. He got near disabued, yes. That's exactly what happened. And so he sued, and then Nightwatch killed him. And so She-Hulk Shocker and Patsy Walker...
00:50:47
Speaker
track down Nightwatch and fight him. And for a minute, it looks like She-Hulk is going to get like hypnotized into doing Nightwatch's bidding. ah But Patsy stops her.
00:51:01
Speaker
Well, actually, Angie stops her. Angie like uses her apparent powers to snap She-Hulk out of it. And so ah she just she just beats the hell out of Nightwatch. And then he's like, don't kill me.
00:51:17
Speaker
And she goes, heroes don't kill people. And so they don't kill – Except Captain America that one time did shoot that dude who worked for Ultimatum. Sure did.
00:51:28
Speaker
For sure.
00:51:30
Speaker
And then the then the series quickly wraps up in two pages. Angie – She-Hulk says, oh, I unfire you to Angie.
00:51:43
Speaker
And Angie's like, I gotta move on and go do my own thing anyway. Thanks for the opportunity. and And she she like leaves. And then Howard the Duck shows up for a second to lease some space here at the Idea Hive.
Conclusion and Inhumans Tease
00:52:02
Speaker
And then were we are left with She-Hulk still has her law office. ah Never the end. yeah Actually, I guess Angie decides to stay. Yeah, Angie does decide to stay. She's like, yeah, I actually like i need to leave.
00:52:20
Speaker
And they're like, oh, come on, you're part of you're part of the gang. You're part of the team now. yeah And she's like, okay. yeah And we never really do find out what's up with her and her monkey.
00:52:31
Speaker
Nope. um But there it ends with She-Hulk getting a case where she's going to defend the Inhumans against her old firm. Yeah, and which is where Patsy Walker says, oh, P&L, that's funny.
00:52:44
Speaker
And I'm like, buddy, but you that's that's that's a lawyer your joke. You put that one in there. that's also like That's like when me and Chad ah decided that since ah the Phoenix Force was named Falcon, that we were going to name like the actual name of the Phoenix Force.
00:53:03
Speaker
And we were like, God, Chris Claremont, that's dumb. And so we named the Starhawk Force Rathacon. That's very good. Which is now in Marvel continuity and will be forever. Yes, yes.
00:53:15
Speaker
That's like one of those where where it's like, you did that to make yourself laugh, and that's fine. Well, it's the ballsy thing is having a character say that your joke was clever.
00:53:26
Speaker
Yeah, Dark Hawk should have been like, damn, that's funny, y'all. Like that movie.
00:53:34
Speaker
Alright, let's rank She-Hulk Volume 3. The 2014 volume of She-Hulk. I think it is fine. I wish the longest story wasn't also the worst.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, that that that Cap story is three issues long. And it's trying really hard to get to a thing that I ultimately do not buy.
00:54:02
Speaker
you know what would have been funny? Is if Captain America, after he accidentally got that guy killed, like became the the the like frail 4F Steve Rogers version of the Captain.
00:54:17
Speaker
i guess he would just get like a black holter jacket. Yeah. that would have been pretty funny. Yeah. i I don't know. I just feel like this like as the second Cap was like, oh, they were going to kill all three of us.
00:54:32
Speaker
And then I started talking. And so then they only killed one of us. Like... Case dismissed. but Yeah.
00:54:44
Speaker
don't know, man. probably Probably the guy who did the shooting was responsible for that. Yeah. Like, it's fucked. It's fucked to be like, Captain America is responsible for this guy being shot by a Nazi.
00:54:59
Speaker
To me, that's unbelievable. But, like... Wild. i think okay I think it is a largely enjoyable read, more or less.
00:55:13
Speaker
But I do think, ah like compared to the slot She-Hulk runs,
00:55:25
Speaker
it it it is i i don't like it near as much as those. Yeah, I like the sillier, goofier stuff.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah. like Part of it is, like I'm sure it's it's diminished by there only having been 12 issues, and and clearly there were more plans, which was very much what Marvel was doing at this time.
00:55:59
Speaker
But at the same time, like I think there are short runs from around that time that are more enjoyable. Like the Silver Surfer comics that we read from this same time, I like a lot more.
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um And, you know, i it feels like I'm saying that I really hated this run, which I didn't. I just expected more, guess is what it ultimately boils down to.
00:56:25
Speaker
like Again, I really like the concept of, let's do She-Hulk as a lawyer with the lawyer stuff you never see. like yeah that's ah That's a cool idea. And I think i do honestly think, by and large, it's done pretty well.
00:56:43
Speaker
yes It's the but three issues of that Captain America story that are not... I think it peaks early, because I think the best lawyer stuff is the patent stuff with Tony Stark.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah. um like The blue file stuff is is fun, and it sets up a mystery that ultimately pays off. And and I think that all is pretty good.
00:57:09
Speaker
It's weird, because you wouldve thought you would have thought that we would have heard some backlash from the Nightwatch fans.
00:57:18
Speaker
There are dozens of us. Dozens! He had a solo series. He sure did. He had a solo series with 12 issues. He had as many issues as this run.
00:57:31
Speaker
That's true. But that was in the 90s. Anybody could get 12 issues. That's true. That's true.
00:57:40
Speaker
He was in maximum carnage, man. He sure was. ah I also think that there's like... There's something so interesting at a guy who was like, yeah, I didn't want to be a villain anymore, but I didn't want to just go you know go straight.
00:57:59
Speaker
like Because I always would have been a villain. I didn't want people to remember that I was a villain. Yeah. Yeah. Like...
00:58:09
Speaker
i think that's I think that's... You know, there's interest there's interesting character stuff for that. Like, if... like God, I hate to armchair edit this book.
00:58:22
Speaker
But like if someone was suing Nightwatch because of this, and She-Hulk had to defend him, or was the plaintiff in that case, and he was like, yeah, but none of that stuff happened, because that's not reality anymore.
00:58:40
Speaker
That's really interesting.
00:58:43
Speaker
But then it's not a mystery. But then it's not a mystery, and it's not like a... a a like Then Tigra doesn't beat up Hillcat. I don't know, man. Again, I hate to armchair edit. That's not the book we have.
00:58:57
Speaker
But... You know. it's It's a perfectly readable book. God, that sounds so mean, but I mean it. like it's it's It's fine. and like like Everything we say is going to come off mean by saying that it's...
00:59:11
Speaker
Okay. like i ah this this This volume of She-Hulk is its okay.
00:59:21
Speaker
There's just some stuff in it that I don't like very much. There's some other stuff in it I like a lot. um it's just It's like a weird mixed bag, I guess, is what I would call it.
00:59:32
Speaker
um Where did we put the slot She-Hulks? That's at $3.58. Yeah, they're pretty high. I like those. It's pretty high. um I'm looking at the 12 and 1300s.
00:59:46
Speaker
Sensational She-Hulk number 50, by a guy who got lost in the Bermuda Triangle, is dead number 1000. Which, I think it's better than this run of She-Hulk.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, like... Like, is this...
01:00:09
Speaker
i don't know man, is this better than the first appearance of Gambit?
01:00:14
Speaker
That's a 1266. That's not a great comic, but it does have Gambit in it. It's, yeah, yeah.
01:00:24
Speaker
Like, I don't know, man. It's better than Combo Man number one at 1270. Okay. the the the Not the lowest bar it could clear, but like I guess like the lowest bar it could clear.
01:00:42
Speaker
i would I do think it is technically a better comic than Night Business, which is at 1224. Alright. I can, yeah. But it's not as good as Mutant Genesis.
01:00:58
Speaker
That's at 1213. Let's see Remind me of what is. nineteen sixty three is that alan moore ah book That was like, uh, that didn't finish.
01:01:12
Speaker
It was from image.
01:01:16
Speaker
And it, uh, I think we got to say this is better than an unfinished comic.
01:01:23
Speaker
Right? Yeah. Well, don't know. I, I, it's not as good as little nephew in the goths, which is at 1214. Matt, I've done, I've somehow fucked up the spreadsheet.
01:01:38
Speaker
How? i I've changed the numbering to the formula that i use for the numbering. I don't know why it's displaying the formula for all the numbers instead of the numbers.
01:01:50
Speaker
I hit a button. You can ah restore it to a previous version. Okay. So that it's not that anymore. and Okay.
01:02:02
Speaker
Oh, wait, no, it's back to normal. Okay, good. think I just hit, like, a view thing. Oh, all right. Um... i would so I would say this is the new number 1215. Yeah. Well, um think it's I don't think it's as good as 1963, actually. Okay.
01:02:19
Speaker
Alright. I'll say it's the new 1216. Above Young Justice Sins of Youth? Yeah. Alright. It's the new number 1216. She-Hulk 2014.
01:02:31
Speaker
ah And then I'll put in other parentheses, Soul... And Pulido. Because Javier Pulido does do like 10 out of the 12 issues.
01:02:49
Speaker
Yeah. Of the run. And ah my favorite thing about it is probably the art.
01:02:59
Speaker
Like i don't want I don't want to be too hard on Charles Soule because like I've read a lot. I've read Charles Soule comics I really like. Um. This book is just fine, though.
01:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. For me.
01:03:15
Speaker
um All right. That is it for She-Hulk 2014. Catch up. That leaves either the James Stokoe Godzilla book or the Matt Wagner Spirit book. Let's do Godzilla next.
01:03:35
Speaker
Hell yeah, let's do it. buts that's that's That's monstrous. Yeah, that's in October. Although I have specifically said that Godzilla is not Halloween monster, but you know.
01:03:46
Speaker
Well, whatever.
01:03:50
Speaker
What the F ever, dude.
01:03:54
Speaker
So we'll be back in October with the James Soko Godzilla book, which I think we might like that one pretty well.
01:04:06
Speaker
That's just a prediction. We could be wrong, but I have a feeling that we're going to enjoy it.
01:04:16
Speaker
In the meantime, if you'd like to send us a recommendation for something to read on Comics Catch-Up, you can email us at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast at gmail.com. You can also message us on Patreon and join our Patreon.
01:04:31
Speaker
ah Go to patreon.com slash warrocketajax to join over there and be part of the group of people that are helping us to keep this show going.
01:04:43
Speaker
All the stuff we do ah here on in podcast land. It's all made possible by our patrons. You can also get in touch with us on Tumblr. We're there at warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. We're on bluesky at We also have a Discord. If you would like to join that Discord, ah you have to be invited. But if you ask us nicely for an invitation to the Discord, we will give you one. And you can join over there and be part of that community of War Rocket Ajax listeners.
01:05:18
Speaker
ah Very, very cool community of folks.
01:05:22
Speaker
Our website is warrocketajax.com. It is every episode episode of the show we've ever done. Warrocketwiki.com is the place to learn all you want to know and need to know about this show, War Rocket Ajax. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to all my stuff. Chris, where can people find you?
01:05:38
Speaker
Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. It's got links. Y'all love links, right? That's what the internet's made of. It's true. Hypertext.
01:05:51
Speaker
Hell yeah. Hypertext all over the place. That's it, everybody. Until next time, good catching up.