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Every Story Ever: November 2025
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This month, we get another story into the top 100 and rank some first appearances of Batman villains, along with much more!
We're rating even more swords on this week's show, including one that slayed a Gorgon, one that's all too real, one that we don't even have a picture of, and a couple that come in pieces.
We make our show on Zencastr, and you can too! Follow this link to sign up now!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster or you want to be a podcaster and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes or in the episode description and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Glad to start.
00:00:35
Speaker
We have a list on our website, warrocketajax.com, called Every Story Ever. What we're doing is we're taking lists from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story Ever special.
00:01:07
Speaker
November 2025. It's... It might be Thanksgiving Day when this episode goes up. It will probably be after, but if you're in America and you celebrate, we hope you had a happy Thanksgiving.
Comic Book Ranking System
00:01:23
Speaker
My name is Matt Wilson. Chris Sims is here with me, as always. Hello. And what we do on this show, as you heard me say in the opening in the past... is we rank comic books on a big old list from best to worst.
00:01:40
Speaker
Chris, would you like to provide our listeners with the current state of the Every Story Ever list? Matt, I sure can. I happily sure can.
00:01:54
Speaker
ah We're looking to list with, oh, it's so nice, 1,669 entries on 60 nice. 60 nice. entries on it sixty nice sixteen nice yeah ah At the top, of course, Spider-Man If This Be My Destiny slash the final chapter. At the bottom, Identity Crisis, a comic I'll die mad about.
00:02:13
Speaker
it may My last words may well be, fucking Identity Crisis. I really don't think anything is ever going to supplant that as the bottom of the list. but It's real bad.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah. yeah That means that our midpoint... is 864, 864, 834, 835, right?
00:02:39
Speaker
So, um let's see here. 834 is the Ron Mars, Doc Shaner, Adventures of Superman, only child story. And 835 is ah Tintin the Blue Lotus, a story that I enjoy quite a bit, but is racist.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, um, I'd say those are two good comics, though, to be the dead middle of the list, because as we have said many times, it's a top-heavy list. top-heavy list, everybody.
00:03:09
Speaker
Things don't start getting bad until well into four digits. For a second I realized I hadn't scrolled back up, and so I was looking at like 1335, which the one where Chapel... ah which is ah which is the one where um where chapel finds out that he has HIV.
00:03:30
Speaker
And I was like, that can't be the midpoint. Yeah, that ain't the midpoint. That can't be right. We don't start getting bad until like the upper 1100s.
00:03:42
Speaker
So... Even then, I mean, there's some very readable stuff in the twelve hundreds Yeah. Like, 2014 is and that comic's Perfectly fine.
00:03:57
Speaker
yeah it's ah Yeah, it's good. um Maybe the 1300s is actually where it starts getting bad.
Mid-List Comics Discussion
00:04:03
Speaker
then i feel like I feel like maybe the first bad comic on the list.
00:04:15
Speaker
1293 is the Spider-Man X-Force Sabotage crossover where Juggernaut destroys the World Trade Center in 1993. ah or nineteen ninety ah Or 1990, 1991. That's pretty rough.
00:04:27
Speaker
But I feel like it's worse from this side of it. From this side of history. Yeah, yeah. At 1300, we have Spider-Man, Unintended Consequences by Michael Czajinski, and I believe Mike Diodato Jr. And that is, in fact, like, that's a bad comic.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:04:50
Speaker
Chris, would you like to get to our first list? Oh, Matt, i would I would love that. Matt, matt how you doing, buddy? I don't ask you on the regular show anymore, but how doing? You know, you know, it's, uh, you know.
00:05:05
Speaker
are you? Yeah, man. All right, my dog's on steroids.
00:05:11
Speaker
Um, getting jacked, huh? Uh, she, I mean, she had, like, some inflammation. Yeah. um But I will say her behavior on steroids has been out of control.
00:05:25
Speaker
On the juice. Yeah, she's she's on the gas, brother, and ah it's it's not good.
00:05:36
Speaker
ah Well, if we hear from Biscuit on this Every Story Ever special, ah everyone will love it, right? They should. I love Bisky.
00:05:47
Speaker
She's probably downstairs shredding something because she's in a rage. Because she shredded she's She's getting shredded, and therefore every scrap of paper in my home must also be shredded.
00:06:00
Speaker
Correct. Bisky is a dog, and she's in a rage. She wants to shred everything, and she wants it in a cage. This list is from Dan Black.
00:06:12
Speaker
And... it The theme of the list is first appearances of Batman rogues.
Exploration of Batman's Riddler
00:06:19
Speaker
Oh, man, okay. that's that's That's right up my alley. Now, that's that's somebody who knows how to send in some comics I've probably read.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yes. First on Dan's list is... The first appearance of the Riddler from 1948, which is Detective Comics number 140, The Riddler by Bill Finger and Dick Sprang. You know what's wild about that story?
00:06:44
Speaker
Tell me. It's about the Riddler being shitty at puzzles. Yeah, it's not really Riddler as we would come to know him. Yeah, like the like the whole bit with the Riddler in the beginning is that like And this was you know this is part of his origin like up through i think the ninety s Because it would be in like Secret Origins and stuff. but like like even So even post-crisis it was... yeah Interesting. like He's he's like bad at at puzzles as a kid. And so he's like, well, I guess I'm going to be the fucking Riddler.
00:07:24
Speaker
That's actual dialogue.
00:07:27
Speaker
Bill Finger had a mouth on him, man. Yeah, man. they They had to change all kinds of dialogue. yeah Yeah. oh But I mean, like, you know, it's... i I... obviously... i have a lot of love for Bill Finger.
00:07:47
Speaker
But I love that he was like... You know, he had a little notebook that he carried around that it was his gimmick book. And so every time he thought of a gimmick,
00:07:58
Speaker
he would write it down so that he could make a supervillain based on it for Batman. Yeah. And I love that because I feel like people don't do that as much as they should carry around a little notebook and write down gimmicks in it.
00:08:13
Speaker
That's, that's the 2026 challenge.
00:08:17
Speaker
But I love that his, like, he, his, I like his idea was, what if a guy was shit at puzzles? and And so he decided to become like a puzzle master. And so in this first appearance, he's not really like the Riddler as we know him. like it's not He's not like asking Batman riddles.
00:08:45
Speaker
He's presenting Batman with puzzles. Yeah. like which is like I feel like that's like gimmicks that Clue Master would pick up later. Yeah.
00:08:57
Speaker
ah I'll make each crime a duel of wits between myself and the law, and fix the puzzles so I'll always win. So he's cheating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like he makes like a crossword for Batman and Robin.
00:09:13
Speaker
Crossword clues. And he builds like physical puzzles for them to solve. Yeah, and this is like... Like a jigsaw puzzle. Like a like a literal jigsaw puzzle. Yes.
00:09:25
Speaker
This is like the... archetypical Dick Sprang story too, right? Because it's like like there's a building in Gotham City that has a giant billboard that does a crossword puzzle ah every night, yeah which is great.
00:09:42
Speaker
and there's you know okay there There is one riddle, but it is on a truck with a giant ear of corn on it. ah huh From the Higgins Can Corn Factory. From the Higgins Can Corn Factory. He steals!
00:09:55
Speaker
yes Dear Batman, here's a corny riddle to tip you off to my next job. Why is corn hard to escape from? Because it's a maze. It's maze. Yeah, it's a maze. So so it's ah it's leading them to another physical puzzle, which is a big maze that they have to get through. Which I guess um was the inspiration for that Batman the Animated Series episode where they're in the The labyrinth with the minotaur? In the video game? You talking about you talk about a Riddle of the Minotaur?
00:10:25
Speaker
or you You talking about If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich? Is the name of that episode. Great title. what Such a great title. Just featuring Dugod John Glover yes as the Riddler.
00:10:39
Speaker
John Glover, a man who has played three Detective comic Comics Comics supervillains in three separate ah pieces of media. Do what you love. Hey man, do as you love.
00:10:52
Speaker
You'll be able to get Trashbacks 420s at any con.
00:11:01
Speaker
If you're John Glover. And that's what you love specifically. I think this is a pretty fun story. It's a pretty fun, like... I guess this is still technically the Golden Age ah Batman story.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's... 1948, so it's the Golden age for sure yeah. Yeah, I think this is like...
00:11:23
Speaker
If you read other comics from this era, you will know immediately why Bill Finger and Dick Sprang... Like, why these are comics that people still talk about, and why other comics are not.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like, you can read the the fucking Robot Man story that is that follows this Batman story in this issue and see why nobody really cares about Robot Man.
00:11:54
Speaker
that's That's not actually that bad a comic, but ah yeah, like it's solid, and I feel like... I wonder who wrote that Robot Man issue that robotman story. Now I gotta look. and Yeah, I bet we can find out.
00:12:05
Speaker
It ain't credited in the in the comic book, I'll tell you that. Yeah. ah But yeah, man, it's like, it's a solid gimmick crime story. And I love a gimmick crime story.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like there's, you know, there's a reason. Otto Bender wrote the Robot Man story. It's probably better than I think it is then. Because Otto Bender was good as hell. But like,
00:12:35
Speaker
nobody cares about Robot Man. remember i mean, until he joined. James Robinson cared about Robot Man for like a minute. Until he joins the Doom Patrol, nobody cares about Robotman. That's true, yes, yes.
00:12:47
Speaker
Matt, this is not Cliff Steele. i I know, I know. But, like, the he is, like, the legacy version of that, of Robotman.
00:12:58
Speaker
that That you cannot deny. i also feel the need to note, I fucking love the Riddler.
00:13:06
Speaker
Like, a guy who just wants to, like... A lot of criminals are criminals for weird reasons in the DC Universe.
00:13:18
Speaker
The Riddler is one of the few where he's a criminal just because he's an asshole. Well, because he wants to outsmart Batman, right? Yeah, because he wants like he wants to prove he's the smartest. He doesn't want to commit a crime.
00:13:34
Speaker
He wants to be smarter than you. And this is how he has chosen to do it. Because there's a guy who's the world's greatest detective. Yeah, it's... I don't actually really love stories where Riddler, like, is a mass murderer.
00:13:55
Speaker
Because I don't really feel like that's what the Riddler's about. No. No. Like, it it's it's probably the weakest part of The Batman, for me, the movie. Yeah.
00:14:07
Speaker
like I do like the Riddler in that movie, because he's a guy who makes online videos where he starts it by saying, hey guys. but Hey guys. But ah he is also like a mass murderer, which I don't know. i like I think the Riddler works just fine as just like a guy who wants to prove he's smart.
00:14:29
Speaker
I mean, look, I do agree with you. But also, the Batman... The Riddler in The Batman. Like, that guy's also still an asshole.
00:14:42
Speaker
Oh yeah, very much So, it's different kinds of asshole. ah The worst part of this story is when we see Riddler in ah his origin story. ah When he's at school, um cheating to solve a jigsaw puzzle. And he looks like he is 49 years old.
00:15:02
Speaker
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean... like he has He is the exact same. Dick Sprang did not change how he drew the... like He designed Adult Riddler first and did not change it.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yes, he he does not look any different at all. Same wrinkles on his face and everything. yeah he also like The first thing he says is, I ought to be able to solve this puzzle.
00:15:26
Speaker
My name is Edward Nygma. E. Nygma. He explains his name. Yep.
00:15:34
Speaker
But he's had that name from from Jump Street. Yeah. That's something. I'm going to tell something. I'm going to tell you something. Sometimes people will change the names of comic book characters because they think they're silly.
00:15:52
Speaker
And that's fucking dumb. And they shouldn't do that. That's what comic books are. They're silly. Yeah. they're silly Yeah. like Lean into it. like If you think the Riddler's name needs to be Eddie Nashton and not Edward Nygma, you're wrong. And I'll tell you why.
00:16:12
Speaker
My dog's veterinarian is named Dr. Ruff.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah. And that's a shoot, brother. Look, i i how many weather... what I was going to say weathermen. ah Meteorologists...
00:16:32
Speaker
are have weather names. In the Charlotte area growing up, I remember like three or four, including Larry Sprinkle.
00:16:44
Speaker
That's a great name. Larry Sprinkle did the weather on WCNC. like That's a real Detective Comics comics-ass name, too.
00:16:56
Speaker
It really is.
00:17:01
Speaker
Fucking Bill Finger writing that one down in his notebook.
00:17:05
Speaker
And I'll sprinkle clues around the city. Larry Sprinkle.
00:17:12
Speaker
Love it. No, I like the story a lot. I think, you know, especially for 1948, I think it's solid. I think it's, like... Certainly a better story than the case of the Chemical Syndicate.
00:17:24
Speaker
That's what I was going to start with, yeah. Yeah. And I like the Riddler more than most people like Batman, so... That's that's at 1140, the case of the Chemical Syndicate. i mean, I think i I would put it a lot higher.
00:17:39
Speaker
oh At number 1000, have Tower of the Elephant. Now, see, that's a good one, because Conan climbs up a tower and there's an elephant in there.
00:17:51
Speaker
That's right. So you know exactly what you're getting before you even read it. like You barely even need to read it. Got that beautiful Carrie Nord part. Yeah, that's the Busick and Nord version, too. ah Because at 1001, we have the Roy Thomas, Barry Windsor Smith version of the same story.
00:18:06
Speaker
That's right, yeah. Which, I mean look, Barry Windsor Smith ain't no so ain't no slouch either. No, not at all. I mean... I can name like three better Conan stories than that.
00:18:19
Speaker
I can also name three better Riddler stories than this, but again, I'm me. you know i think it probably goes below Conan stories. I think it probably goes below the Beard Hunter.
00:18:37
Speaker
But I think it's in the neighborhood. like I think it's probably in the low one thousand somewhere. like It's probably better than Flowers for Rhino, which is at 1020.
00:18:47
Speaker
i would say I would say so. Is it better than Legends of the Dark Claw, which we have at 1019? Matt, you're you're talking to someone who is currently sitting beneath a piece of original Dark Claw art.
00:19:00
Speaker
So what you're saying is that this is the 1020? By which I mean, an original piece of art featuring Dark Claw, I did not get a page from the talent, Jim Ballant, from Legends of the Dark Claw number one.
00:19:13
Speaker
I don't know, man. like Is it better than that U.S. s agent story where he cusses out a fucking scarecrow?
00:19:25
Speaker
Where is that? that's it That's a 1043.
00:19:30
Speaker
I mean, okay. We're going further down then. i mean that's a like That's a pretty good story. 1042. I have it at 1042, yeah. I don't know. I think it's probably better than that.
00:19:41
Speaker
I think it is probably better than that. ah like i was I said I think it's better than Flowers for Rhino. We have that at 1020. Oh, okay. Yeah. And Legends of the Dark Claw right above that, so I think this is the new 1020.
00:19:56
Speaker
I do like Dark Claw, but like...
00:20:00
Speaker
I think this comic is as good as Batman Incorporated 1-3.
00:20:06
Speaker
i don't think it's as good as that issue of The Walking Dead, though. I don't think it's as good as The Tick 1 and 2. Okay. but Then I think it is better than the Templeton Tim Vampirello.
00:20:18
Speaker
Okay, so it's the new number 1016. So this is what is... What is the story called? I think it's just called just called The Riddler. Yeah, it is just called The Riddler.
00:20:31
Speaker
ah So The Riddler, Detective Comics number 140, is the new number 1016.
00:20:45
Speaker
Next on Dan's list is the first appearance of Ra's al Ghul.
Ra's al Ghul's Character Analysis
00:20:50
Speaker
1971. Batman number 232, Daughter of the Demon by Denny O'Neill, Neil Adams, and nick Dick Giordano.
00:20:57
Speaker
Hey, dog? Yeah, man. Hey, dog? Yeah, man. That's a good fucking comic.
00:21:07
Speaker
That's a good fucking comic, dude.
00:21:12
Speaker
That's like...
00:21:15
Speaker
That's kind of about as good as they get, really. i mean that's You want to talk about comics I have read 18 times in my life?
00:21:28
Speaker
ah that is a like i mean got That is a very low number. I'm sure I've read that comic at least 18 times. but like Boy! It's kind of exactly what you want from like a Bronze Age Batman story, I feel like.
00:21:43
Speaker
It's kind of what you want from a Batman story.
00:21:49
Speaker
Now, are we are we We're only doing this one. We're not doing the the ah the follow-up stories. ah No, i think that I think those would be ranked separately. yeah Okay, because like this isn't the one where Batman gets in a shirtless sword fight no Which we would have to maybe clear out the top of the list for.
00:22:14
Speaker
ah We've ranked that. we've ranked that oh that's such a good comic. Oh. Matt, it's so good. When he takes his shirt off. ah But I mean, this is a, like...
00:22:30
Speaker
This is about as good as they get, man. like i was it They made this comic into an episode of Batman the Animated Series and changed nothing. What was the title of the the shirtless sword fight issue?
00:22:41
Speaker
I believe that's The Demon Lives Again. Demon Lives Again. Okay. Yeah. Maybe we haven't ranked that one. We have Son of the Demon and Birth of the Demon.
00:22:54
Speaker
um But that's... I don't think we have The Demon Lives Again. So, never mind. But but this is not that. This is Daughter of the Demon. This is Daughter of the Demon. And, you know, if you have if you have this comic...
00:23:07
Speaker
In its original published form. It also has that one ah weird Aurora model kit ad where Frankenstein is kidnapping a woman and Vampirella says, don't worry, this is New York. No one will help her.
00:23:21
Speaker
And there's a little caption that says girl victim with an arrow pointing to her because she's apparently a model you can get. Yeah. We should rank that as a story. That shit is fucking bananas.
00:23:34
Speaker
Somebody send it in. so Send in the weird world of Aurora. Because that's not what Vampirella does. Vampirella and bre Frankenstein. um Anyway, yeah but this this is about as good as as Batman Comics got for 20 years in either direction.
00:23:59
Speaker
Again, it's ah it's a whole setup of Ra's al Ghul testing Batman.
00:24:10
Speaker
It's almost a Riddler story, because he like makes him solve a bunch of stuff, and then also it turns out to be like a whole thing, because literally at the end of this comic, Ra's al Ghul's like, yeah, my daughter's real horny for you.
00:24:26
Speaker
So... what are we going to be doing here? Yeah. And then that's the end of the story.
00:24:37
Speaker
Which... Great. It's so good. Alright. I'm giving you the reins to to rank this one.
00:24:48
Speaker
I mean, I'm surprised we don't have this one already. Because, like... Well, I'm i'm shocked we don't have the shirtless sword fight issue. but it's But here we are. Batman's best look is his real clothes, but no shirt, no cape.
00:25:07
Speaker
Cowl? Yes. And then utility belt and pants and boots. yeah That's his best look ever. I mean, he is wearing his real clothes in this story.
00:25:20
Speaker
oh yeah Don't get it twisted. of course he He is absolutely wearing the full outfit with Oval.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, man. Also, God, like, what a great, like, Racial Ghoul's such a great fucking villain. Like... He's so different from other Batman villains.
00:25:41
Speaker
He is, but he's also, like, a weird throwback. Yeah. Because, like, he's Fu Manchu. And I'm not gonna say, look, I'm not, I don't think I can say that Racial Ghoul is not a racial caricature.
00:25:57
Speaker
Racial Ghoul? Yeah, it's it's a racial character caricature. But, like, at the same time, I think he is a much more nuanced character. Like, there's there's nothing there's nothing about him that is like that is like a Middle Eastern stereotype.
00:26:22
Speaker
Except for maybe that he's rich. You know, like, that he's wealthy and has this, well, he does have Ubu and the kind of army of ah desert servants.
00:26:33
Speaker
So there's a little bit of it there. But, like, he's not Fu Manchu. You know, he he's the he's the updated modern Fu Manchu for the 70s.
00:26:47
Speaker
Like, there are certainly, like, elements of that kind of older type of, you know, Fu Manchu villain. But I don't think... It's a modernized version of it. Yeah.
00:27:01
Speaker
I think if you were creating the character now, he would be even more different. But I do think there was a realization that like you couldn't do Fu Manchu, the Fu Manchu of the in comics in the And comics in the nineteen seventy s and so you know Denny O'Neill came up with a sort of more refined take.
00:27:29
Speaker
yeah And that's what Ra's al Ghul is, or Ra's al Ghul. I mean, you know you say you don't like he'd be different today, but like he's not a character who has changed a lot. He's very much still this guy.
00:27:43
Speaker
No, I'm not saying he would be different today. like i'm not saying he i'm I'm saying like if you were creating today he probably wouldn't be like that.
00:27:53
Speaker
yeah But like I also think, like even despite being Middle Eastern, I think Ra's al Ghul often reads as like a white guy. Well, I mean, a lot of that is because he has been portrayed by David Warner and Liam Neeson.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah. like like you You know what I mean? My formative memories of Ra's al Ghul are of David Warner. Of David Warner, yeah. but i But I also think that that's like kind of by design.
00:28:21
Speaker
Where like that takes away some of the kind of racial elements of the character. um or Or he seems more like just like a worldly man.
00:28:34
Speaker
yeah i mean if that makes sense. He definitely... He is representative of some, like, Old World mysticism. Not like Old World as in, like, the Eastern Hemisphere, but like, a a man of magic and sorcery and alchemy in a world of science.
00:28:55
Speaker
Oh... Which I think is like interesting. And unfortunately like does have a lot of that you know Orientalist baggage to it. But yeah is, I think, a viable character?
00:29:09
Speaker
And you know i think as evidenced by the fact that we still basically have this Ra's al Ghul today. oh He's ah he's think he's hard good, man.
00:29:23
Speaker
I think part of why it works is that Batman's beef with him, Batman's ah issue with him as a villain has nothing to do with his ethnic origin. It has everything to do with like what he wants and what he does and the organization he heads and all of that.
00:29:48
Speaker
and so I do wonder if like... I do wonder how much of it was... Denny O'Neill reading about like the origins of the Hashashin. League of Assassins, ah immortal guy who's been alive for 500 years.
00:30:12
Speaker
Historically, you kind of trace assassins back to the the Middle East. yeah look We've all played Assassin's Creed. We all know that when the aliens came down...
00:30:24
Speaker
ah or the the Sorry, not they're not aliens. Ted Anderson loves to correct me on this. They're not aliens. They're something else. The Isu. You know about the Isu, Matt.
00:30:37
Speaker
i I haven't played an Assassin's Creed game in so long. i you know about You know about famous assassin James... No, it's not James McElroy. It's the other one. Michael Fassbender.
00:30:48
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I... The lore of Assassin's Creed, even when i was playing those games, the lore was just like...
00:30:59
Speaker
So so ah secondary to me. Just there secondary consideration. It's the worst thing about those games. it's It's the worst thing about those games, and also kind of the best thing about those games, because I'm not going to lie.
00:31:13
Speaker
Fistfighting the Pope in the secret alien artifact storage chamber underneath the Vatican? That's the best it ever got. but yeah That's the best I've ever got. yeah There are some people who care about Desmond, and I am not one of them.
00:31:27
Speaker
No, sir. No, sir. Can't make me care. They trash Desmond to like by by like four. Yeah, but consider that that's four is actually like seven entries into the series.
00:31:42
Speaker
But there have been so many more since then. i mean, yeah yeah. Anyway, what I'm getting at is like i I wonder how much of it is like I know Denny O'Neill specifically was doing ah like bringing back a lot of stuff that he liked, you know, like he brought back Joker.
00:32:02
Speaker
Consider that there was a five year stretch where the Joker did not appear in comics, except for one justice league story. Yeah. That's an unbelievable to the thing to think about in 2025.
00:32:15
Speaker
And like kind of, you know, updating Batman, doing like the world traveling stuff. Cause you know, there's obviously, there's a lot of James Bond in this.
00:32:26
Speaker
Sure. yeah There's a lot of, you know, like, uh, the thing that I love about this is that, that, uh, Talia appears a couple issues before to kind of like seed everything.
00:32:39
Speaker
Uh, so it's, it's really interesting. Like, like, ah O'Neill did an interview where he was like, i wanted to do like a Moriarty for Batman. If he's the world's greatest detective, then like who's his Moriarty? I so yeah i think there's a lot of like really cool influences at play that make a character who, even with 50 years of like changing ideas about
00:33:15
Speaker
comic book characters and villains and what they should be, like he's still basically this guy.
00:33:23
Speaker
We currently have Son of the Demon at number 239 and Birth of the Demon at 242. Buddy, I'm looking at at number 50, which is Amazing Spider-Man Annual number one.
00:33:35
Speaker
<unk> That's a good-ass comic. That's a great-ass comic, yeah. I would be hard-pressed
00:33:48
Speaker
to say this is better.
00:33:51
Speaker
But I think it's probably better than then The Silver Age of the Superman, which is a very, very good story. Which is at number 55. Yes. I mean, okay is this story better than God Loves, Man Kills? Well, Neil Adams in 1971 was better than Brent Anderson.
00:34:10
Speaker
No offense. are you Are you saying that this should be number the new number 55? I would put it that high, yeah. Okay. But not as good as Forever People number three.
00:34:24
Speaker
That's got the justifiers in it, man. and that's like that is a That is a morally instructive comic. ah Okay. so That comic is like resident on a moral level. Okay, so we're putting this at number 55. is...
00:34:38
Speaker
which is A very good showing. Which I agree. I think it is it is that good. Yeah, man. It's a good comic. ah So, Daughter of the Demon.
The Ventriloquist and Scarface
00:34:51
Speaker
Which is Batman number...
00:35:01
Speaker
So...
00:35:04
Speaker
that is high
00:35:08
Speaker
ah and a good story so
00:35:12
Speaker
Finally on Dan's list, we have the first appearance of Ventriloquist in Scarface from 1988, Detective Comics number 583, Fever by John Wagner, Alan Grant, and Norm Braefogle. Alright, look.
00:35:27
Speaker
Look.
00:35:29
Speaker
That's not as good as this one. a But it is good. And it is weird. ah Well, Ventriloquist and Scarface are inherently weird.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, no, like... that's That's one of the reasons that I want to do ah Munch Squad.
00:35:52
Speaker
M-O-E-N-C-H Squad. Is because that weird 80s, 90s era of... Like, like late eighty s early ninety s era of Batman.
00:36:06
Speaker
Like, every now and then... Somebody like makes a new villain. And sometimes they stick. Ventriloquist obviously stuck around a lot. I think... I would say... i would say 70% of the Ventriloquist sticking around is Batman the Animated Series.
00:36:27
Speaker
That they chose to use the Ventriloquist in Batman the Animated Series is very much... like You know, who who knows if Ventriloquist and Scarface would have had any staying power?
00:36:40
Speaker
Like, if they had chosen to put Magpie on Batman the Animated Series, would she still be around? Well, they put her on one of those shows. Yeah. And that show got cancelled, I believe. so yeah oh But I do i do think 30% of it is that the Ventriloquist is inherently...
00:37:03
Speaker
as you said, weird. Like, and interesting, and you get it immediately.
00:37:12
Speaker
Like, oh, this is a weird dude with a weird, possibly haunted puppet. And Matt, I know that you love haunted dolls. That is true. I know you have a whole podcast that I think is called I Love Haunted Dolls,
00:37:29
Speaker
And my friend Chris is a baby. as a stupid baby. phil I'm not saying I love haunted dolls and my friend Chris is a weak, stupid baby.
00:37:42
Speaker
There are three of us. Our friend Chris. Yeah, each one of you is saying my. it's It's like, you know.
00:37:51
Speaker
I will say that the probably the weakest thing about this comic... And also, i think we do have to say this is not just this one issue. It has to be at least the next issue.
00:38:10
Speaker
how Let's see. How long does this ventriloquist story go?
00:38:15
Speaker
ah It's only the two issues. So it's 583 584. Yeah.
00:38:21
Speaker
um It is like a weird 80s anti-drug story. Yeah, but it's a weird, it it is one of my favorite weird-ass comic book drugs, which is, it's called fever, and it is a drug that makes you catch on fire.
00:38:38
Speaker
Yeah, like, like um start so you start sweating and your body gets hot. That's what it does to you. Yeah. And that's fucking funny.
00:38:51
Speaker
But yes, it is like, at one point, Batman does get dosed with fever, and it is very much like a Streets of Poison moment. It's very much that, yes. ah Where ah he almost beats the ventriloquist to death.
00:39:08
Speaker
oh
00:39:11
Speaker
But, like, I think that's fine. like it's not It's not great, but it's it's fine. Norm Braveheart would draw the shit out of it, though. He's going hog wild in this.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, man. The panel of Batman like about to like punch Ventriloquist to death, it's so distorted.
00:39:37
Speaker
distorted And Batman's like face is so... like it looks like a it It looks like it could be from Batman the Animated Series. like like That bottom half of his face is just like a trapezoid. And it's like the panel borders are aflame. So like yeah like the panels themselves are like catching on fire. It's i eat fucking great. Norm Brayfogle, man.
00:40:06
Speaker
so That dude's a real one. And then it ends with Ventriloquist and Scarface in the same jail cell. And they put Scarface in like a low prison in a little jail uniform.
00:40:21
Speaker
And and like Ventriloquist says that he'll turn state's evidence. and And Scarface says, no, you won't. You're a rat.
00:40:32
Speaker
I'll murder you. And he's like hitting him. Pretty good. So it like never gives up the game about, like you know, is is the puppet alive or is this just like personal different personalities of the ventriloquist? Shout out to this cop who is guarding the ventriloquist at 3-4, Gotham Police Precinct 34, who is kicked back with a his feet on a desk with an espresso
00:41:07
Speaker
and a book about magic.
00:41:12
Speaker
That says magic and has a creepy face. On what is either like a, a type maybe he's reading a tankabon, or that is the back cover.
00:41:23
Speaker
Love it. yeah I like this story. I read this story pretty recently, again, and i i really like it, man. John Wagner, ah Norm Brayfogle, Alan Grant, that is a That's an underrated team on Batman. They did some fucking classics.
00:41:41
Speaker
Also, 583, the actual first appearance of Scarface the Ventriloquist, has a fucking Mike Mignola cover. Oh, yeah. That that cover is like it's very um ahead of its time. Because it's just like...
00:41:57
Speaker
a cool drawing of Batman that has nothing to do with the the issue. ah I'll tell you what, though. You look at this cover, you know, ah ah Rob Liefeld said the reason he quit drawing feet was because he saw Mike Mignola...
00:42:16
Speaker
ah like basically quit drawing feet and thought it looked cool. And when you look at this cover, that's exactly what's happening. Rob saw this cover.
00:42:28
Speaker
I mean, he did draw the feet, but they're like... Yeah, but they're like they're basically Rob's feet. Pretty much, yeah. yeah They're like really like foreshortened way out of the Way out of the image. Let me tell you something. You could read a lot of Hellboy and not realize he has hopes.
00:42:48
Speaker
That's true. um you You rarely see Hellboy's feet. look i'm And look, I'm not out here going, Hellboy, show me the feet. I'm not on Hellboy's OnlyFans. But I'm saying Rob had a point.
00:43:04
Speaker
I would say the only like major problem... downfall of this story is the kind of like 80s drug panic of it all.
00:43:17
Speaker
but Yeah, because it's like ah there's like a gang of completely amoral youths. Yeah, yeah. ah But it is it it helps that it's like a weird comics ah fake drug And that, um you know, ends up being Scarface and Ventriloquist behind it, who like are absolutely batshit bonkers from Jump Street.
00:43:53
Speaker
i like As soon as they show up. like like scarface The design of Scarface would change over time. But the the idea of Scarface and Ventriloquist was was pretty much here from the beginning.
00:44:07
Speaker
yeah um Do you think it did actual harm to have so many comics where a good guy...
00:44:22
Speaker
gets dosed with drugs, or does drugs, and is about to do something awful because he's on drugs, and then he just goes, No! And just doesn't do it. Batman stories in particular, there are so many Batman stories about that very thing.
00:44:41
Speaker
He locks himself in his basement and just stops doing drugs a lot. he Venom. but like There was a there was a prestige...
00:44:53
Speaker
story where Batman did Venom. And boy, oh boy. but yeah Boy, all he did was like he grew a beard? and And that got him off off the gas?
00:45:06
Speaker
yeah ah Yeah. I don't know if that it actively did harm. I think collectively the
00:45:17
Speaker
rush of 80s anti-drug media Absolutely did more harm than good. Listen, here's what I'll say about this.
00:45:30
Speaker
I don't know a lot about John Wagner and Alan Grant's personal lives. Yeah. I've read a lot of their comics, though, and I'm going to guess those are two gentlemen who have some experience with drugs.
00:45:42
Speaker
Probably, yeah. You know, probably as much as you or I do. And I would wonder if, like, but you know, is John Wagner sitting there getting ready to, like, eat a whole Papa John's pizza? And then he goes, like, no!
00:46:03
Speaker
I wonder if that was an amendment to the Comics Code in the 80s, where it's like, if a hero does a drug, they have to just kind of, like, break out of it. I'd say, no, I can't.
00:46:16
Speaker
I can't do a murder because of drugs. No! Alright, where do you think this goes? I like it. I mean it's like i think this it's a very solid Batman story of its era. I think you know it's it's not it's not perfect.
00:46:33
Speaker
it has you know we We have enumerated its problems. yeah But if I was going to try and rank it lower than, 800, I'd have to be like No! no well You know what, a Batman should have switched to Totally Harmless Vapor.
00:46:54
Speaker
ah What we have at 800 is Wintertime wait Wager from Walt Disney's Comics and Stories. um
00:47:04
Speaker
Also, I do really like the Ventriloquist. I think the Ventriloquist is like... The Ventraluquist is a great Batman villain because you never have as much sympathy for him as you should.
00:47:15
Speaker
Like, he's the Batman villain who, like, very clearly, unless it is a haunted doll, opinions vary, ah but, like, he very clearly has, like, a real problem.
00:47:28
Speaker
Like, especially if you go and read his origin story in Showcase. that Alan Grant wrote where he's like in prison because he accidentally knifed a guy 26 times or whatever it is. ah like But I don't find Arnold Wesker to be a particularly sympathetic character because he's fucking yeah he's kind of a punchline in a way that works.
00:47:54
Speaker
Right, and... and like he is probably a murderer. He just does it through his puppet. Yeah, either him or ah or the ghost of that the hanging tree from ah Black Gay Prison.
00:48:10
Speaker
Right. I mean, you know, there have occasionally been stories that seem to posit that Ventriloquist is alive. Or, I'm sorry, Scarface is alive. ah and And sentient.
00:48:24
Speaker
But... But I kind of think that it's just the ventriloquist doing it all. Yeah. yeah you know um and eight As I said, at 800, we have Wintertime Wager from Walt Disney's Comics and Stories. um At 750, we have Marvel Zombies 3, which is good.
00:48:48
Speaker
Which is good. is Marvel Zombies 3 is actually very good. It's the best one. um It's the best one. I don't know if it's as good as that. I don't know if it's as good as Hellboy in Mexico, which is at 761.
00:49:00
Speaker
Camazotz, man. Camazotz is in that All of No Man's Land is at 758. In which Ventriloquist is ah the first villain that Batman goes up against in No Man's Land proper.
00:49:12
Speaker
That's true. oh
00:49:16
Speaker
I would say... You know about um yeah about fucking Quakemaster? Uh-huh. quake You know how Quakemaster was the the villain behind the earthquake that hit Gotham City?
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah. And Quakemaster was Scarface. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I just think that's funny. like I think it's funny that they were like, but was like no, this was just a big earthquake.
00:49:42
Speaker
And so the whole story about there being a guy behind the earthquake was like, you a goof. Yeah. I think that's fun. oh My Uncle My Enemy is at 794. God, that's a pretty good one, too.
00:49:58
Speaker
Dirty Pear Start the Violence is probably about... You know, I would probably read this before I would read Start the Violence again. Okay, so are you saying that this is the new number 795? Is it... Is
00:50:14
Speaker
is it it is it Not as good as My Uncle My Enemy? I would say it's not as good as My Uncle My Enemy. Of course you would.
00:50:26
Speaker
Okay, yeah. The new 795. It's fun, though. Okay. So this... this is We're saying it's the two issues, not just number 583. It's and um And that story is called... well Fever! 584 is called Fever Break.
00:50:50
Speaker
And 583 is just... Well, it's called Fever Part 1. So I guess we'll just call it Fever. um Fever! But the second issue is called Fever Break.
00:51:04
Speaker
Alright. Fever, first Scarface. ah Detective... numbers 583 and 584.
00:51:17
Speaker
Is what that is.
00:51:23
Speaker
It's weird that they made Scarface originally, like the original ah Scarface design looked like a puppet of the Joker. Yeah, it's got a totally white face, which is yeah strange.
00:51:35
Speaker
Like very red lips, very white face. He does not have those in like the second appearance. Yeah. Like I said, his design changed, but the, the concept was there from the start.
00:51:49
Speaker
Um, all right. Uh, thank you, Dan, for that list. That was very fun. That was very fun. Uh, all right. Our next list is from Greg Packnet.
00:52:01
Speaker
And, uh,
00:52:06
Speaker
Let's see. Greg says, your Every Story Ever list inspired me read me to reread and rank all of the comics in my collection. After about three and a half years, I estimate that I'm about 12% finished, and my list has 1,737 stories on it. These are currently the top three, with four to six as backups.
Wonder Woman and Reluctance on Eternals
00:52:26
Speaker
Okay. right? First is The Lies and the Truth, Wonder Woman Volume 5, Numbers 1-25, and Wonder Woman Rebirth No. 1, i.e. the Rucka Rebirth Run.
00:52:41
Speaker
don't think I read the Rucka Rebirth Run. I think I read some of it. Yeah, that might be a one that I just kind of, I mean, that was 2016. You know, we all we all had a lot on our plates.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah, that was that was the Greg Rucka, Liam Sharp run on Wonder Woman. I mean, I like Greg Rucka on Wonder Woman. that's you know ah Prior to ah Absolute Wonder Woman, that is the that's the the most I've ever really loved a Wonder Woman run.
00:53:14
Speaker
Yeah, the the previous Rucka Wonder Woman run is is very good. Yeah.
00:53:21
Speaker
I mean, I bet this is good. Looking back at it, I don't think I read any of it. yeah Strangely enough.
00:53:30
Speaker
but it Could be a CUC, catch-up candidate. Yeah, I think we'd have to do it in two parts because it is a pretty sizable chunk of comics. But um yes, definitely potential to...
00:53:49
Speaker
to be a catch-up candidate. So let us know if we should read those Greg Rucka Wonder Woman issues. I think it is 1 through 25, and then by 26, Rucka is gone.
00:54:06
Speaker
And somebody else is writing. Shea Fontana starts writing with 26. And then, of course, I believe now we've got the ah the Tom King Wonder Woman run, which, buddy, couldn't pay me.
00:54:20
Speaker
I read the first issue and tapped right out of there. like we We've talked recently on the show, because because if you don't listen to the regular War Rocket Ajax, first of all, how dare you?
00:54:37
Speaker
It's good show. ah We're very funny on it. But i've been we've been reading Hush 2, and I'm having a fucking blast.
00:54:49
Speaker
With Hush 2.
00:54:52
Speaker
Well, you know what? I was thinking about this just today. i would rather read something that's stupid and knows that it's stupid than read something that is bad but thinks it's smart.
00:55:10
Speaker
Do you... Do you think Hush 2 knows it's stupid? I think Hush 2...
00:55:19
Speaker
I think Hush 2 is not taking itself seriously. I... The people reading it might be taking it seriously. The people... Like, Hush 1, I do think, took itself seriously. It is hard for me to imagine that Hush 2 is taking itself seriously. I think, at best, Hush 2 doesn't care.
00:55:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think that might be what it is. At best, slash worse. But, like... i would i I actually prefer that. Something that's kind of like dashed off than something that's like being presented as like smart awards bait, but is in fact shit.
00:56:08
Speaker
See, that's... That's what Identity Crisis is. but Identity crisis is an attempt to like grow up and make superheroes respectable literature and it fucking sucks.
00:56:22
Speaker
That's true. But like, it this is, this is interesting to me. And the reason I'm, I'm continuing with this conversation here is because I think this is, An interesting discussion to have as we continue ranking comics.
00:56:35
Speaker
yeah Because also, we often say that we would rather have a comic that takes a big swing than a comic that that is you know just what we've seen before.
00:56:49
Speaker
sure So I feel like there's there is a conflict there where... Yeah, yeah like you get what I'm saying? Because I think the crisis is a big swing. It also sucks.
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, it' but but is it a big swing? because it's i just I think it's a big swing. But it's just an attempt to bring like crime literature tropes into to a superhero story I remember working at the comic book store and having... because brett brad meltzer was a crime novel writer right he was a novelist i don't know if he was ah but crime novelist yeah okay sorry say what you're going to say well i remember someone literally coming into the cal books storere i swear to god
00:57:38
Speaker
verbatim when I was working there and asking me if we had the comic where the superheroes deal with the real issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he wanted Identity Crisis and that made me want to walk into the sea.
00:57:54
Speaker
So I do think Identity Crisis is a big swing. It is it is trying something. What it is trying is bad and it's catastrophically bad at what it's trying.
00:58:07
Speaker
Yeah. However, like, there is, like, Heroes in Crisis is kind of a fascinating failure on every level.
00:58:23
Speaker
But it is fascinating.
00:58:27
Speaker
Point being, you couldn't pay me to read that that Top King Wonder Woman run, but I'm having a blast reading Hush 2, a comic I hate.
00:58:36
Speaker
And I'm not mad about it, which is unusual for me. i'm just having a nice time. But it is, like, fun to read. Oh, it's a hoot. It's so stupid. it's it's It's terrible, but it is fun to read. Batman shoots Jason Todd in the head with a gun.
00:58:55
Speaker
i i looked up the kinds of novels that ah that bread melts. Are they, like, legal thrillers? They're kind of like legal thrillers, yeah. Yeah, it's like bootleg John Grisham. Yeah, he went to law school. He he writes kind of like legal thrillers. Yeah.
00:59:10
Speaker
she Should have stuck to writing them briefs. Yeah, man. um Okay. Next on – Greg, this list is a hard sell, I got to tell you.
00:59:20
Speaker
um I mean, look, we should try to read the – We should read that, Greg Rocco, Wonder Woman. It'll be fun. but the But the second one is Only Death is Eternal, which is Eternals Volume 5, Numbers 1 through 6, which is the first story in the Kieran Gillen run on Eternals. And like we've been told many times that the Kieran Gillen run on Eternals is good.
00:59:40
Speaker
But i I will not be tricked. I will not be tricked into reading Eternals. I don't care if a good writer wrote it.
00:59:52
Speaker
I'm sorry. Here's the thing. I didn't care about Jack Kirby's Eternals. Yeah. And much love, nothing but love, for Kieran Gillen.
01:00:08
Speaker
I think Jack Kirby was better at making comics than Kieran Gillen. And I don't think Kieran Gillen would argue that. Hey man, also, all due respect to Jamie McKelvey, but fucking Jack Kirby drawing Phonogram would have been fucking lit. imaginephonagraph Just take a minute, imagine the page where ah they're dancing to Atomic by Blondie in Phonogram.
01:00:38
Speaker
Imagine Kirby drawing that. I mean, pretty tight. Pretty tight is what that would be. Would have been amazing. Also, nothing but love for Jamie McKelvey. Kieran Gillen, legit one of the best writers going.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah. But if Jack Kirby couldn't make me care about Jack Kirby's Eternals.
01:00:59
Speaker
Like, look, you can convince me maybe that Eternals, Gillen's Eternals could be a catch-up candidate. but It'd be hard. It would be hard.
01:01:10
Speaker
It's going to be way down the list of potential stuff to read. If we had to put that to a vote, I would say we would have to do electoral college rules, and that shit would have to get 75% of the vote for it to win.
01:01:27
Speaker
Alright. um Next, we do have one that i at least I have read. i feel bad, because this is two we haven't read off this office list, but ah Well, i've we've read number three. i've I've definitely read it. I'm pretty sure you have, too.
Spider-Man's 'Severance Package' Issue
01:01:42
Speaker
um It's Spider-Man's Tangled Web number four, Severance Package, which is the Greg Rucka, Eduardo Rizzo issue of Tangled Web.
01:01:53
Speaker
How have we not ranked that comic... That was reprinted like 46 times the year it came out. That comic was everywhere. it was. It was.
01:02:05
Speaker
Which, you know, it's it's good. It's really good. It's good. it's it's ah It's a weird issue of a Spider-Man comic. Because, um like, Spider-Man ain't really in it.
01:02:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a ah a kingpin story. Like, Tangled web, I think was initially meant to be the story about like the world around Spider-Man and kind of like the, kind of like the Astro city man on the street.
01:02:37
Speaker
Like, this is what it's like to live in the world with Spider-Man as opposed to, oh ah you know, like, like focusing on Spider-Man. So I don't think Spidey's in this issue.
01:02:49
Speaker
And like, like the, uh, the one that Raven wrote, uh, the, with Crusher Hogan, like Peter Parker's in one panel of that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, so like, there are other Tangle Lip stories where Spider-Man is like, incidental.
01:03:06
Speaker
But he's just not in this one. yeah which is Which is, you know, interesting. It's it's an interesting like, okay, we're this is what we're going to do with our kind of like, anthology Spider-Man comic about the The Tangled Web. um This is going to sound like I am damning this comic, right?
01:03:35
Speaker
this story I think the reason this story got like reprinted so much, because they were like packaging the reprints of this with like action figures and shit in 2003 or whatever,
01:03:48
Speaker
yeah um I think the reason it got reprinted so much is because this is the kind of story that Identity Crisis wanted to be. Because this is a story about the kind of realistically dark, negative consequences of a superhero's actions.
01:04:12
Speaker
all right which is heck is ah or a good Go for Even though Spider-Man isn't in it, it is it is the result of Spider-Man's actions like stopping um a a weapons deal...
01:04:30
Speaker
Well, actually, no. Okay. Spider-Man is in one panel. There is Spider-Man in one panel. I just saw him. um So Spider-Man stopped a weapons deal that the Kingpin was behind.
01:04:43
Speaker
And he's this lieutenant of his, whose name is Tom, ah is is being held responsible for the failure. And so late at night, they get a phone call from the Kingpin like...
01:04:59
Speaker
We're sending a call or call or car to come get you.
01:05:04
Speaker
And Tom knows what this is. Tom knows what's about to happen. But he like takes a shower, gets dressed. His wife is like, this is not fair.
01:05:16
Speaker
he's he's like We see his kids. His wife tells him, like why don't you kill the kingpin? And he's like, I can't. I can't do that. So he just like walks out and gets and gets in the car and goes to you know what's coming for him.
01:05:33
Speaker
So he goes to the Kingpin's office. The Kingpin's like, you know why you're here? I know you have a gun. You're not going to shoot me. like You know what's going to happen.
01:05:46
Speaker
And then the Kingpin just like chokes him to death.
01:05:53
Speaker
And he's like, okay. ah you can leave his family alone because he he did his duty. And that's the story.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah. It is a guy who, because Spider-Man stopped a crime, this guy gets killed. Yeah. i And Greg Rucka, to his credit, does not say great power at any point in this comic.
01:06:23
Speaker
But he does talk about responsibility. Yeah. And Kingpin's like, yeah, you were responsible for this. You have to take responsibility for the failure. I'm going to kill you. And Tom Cochran's like, yep, i that's the way it works. That's the way Kingpin works.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, and and you know he shows up to the meeting with a gun, but he also knows that if he tries to hurt Kingpin, he will have his family killed. Yeah, because there's a the reason he has a gun is because Kingpin sends a a guy to – ah go pick him up, and on the way to ah to the Fisk Tower, ah he's talking to the guy, and he's like, oh, did you get your thing straightened out? And he goes, no, but Mr. Fisk said I deserved a second chance. And Tom kills that guy and goes, there are no second chances.
01:07:15
Speaker
And then he when he goes up to to see Kingpin, he's like, hey, I did kill Richie. And Kingpin's like, yep, that was the plan. You get it. Yeah, and also, ah Kingpin's like, oh, also, like I do need you to take a few shots at me, because the story is going to be that you snapped and tried to kill me, and I defended myself.
01:07:36
Speaker
Yeah. And we all know that Kingpin is a big enough boy that he can just ah fall over onto the Red Skull. Correct. And win a fight. God, that's a fucking great comic. Yeah.
01:07:50
Speaker
Um, also like, ah I think we got to give some props to Eduardo Rizzo, um, on the art in this because like, you know, Rizzo was already like a star, like a crime comic star. Yeah. I mean, this was, this was post, this was like when a hundred bullets was like a big deal.
01:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. And like, uh, you know, um, a hundred bullets, um, started strong and then like really fell off. hundred bullets looks good. It looks great. Yeah. Um,
01:08:19
Speaker
it It really kind of fell off by the end, but Rizzo's art was always great in it because it's like this moody, inky, um like characters in shadow, like kind of like, like it's definitely got like a,
01:08:39
Speaker
like a very specific look and feel, a very, a mood to it. Right. And so like all of the shadows and stuff in this issue, I think are part of what really make it like the the whole scene with the Kingpin. Like he's like bathed in shadow. Like his, his, like the, the light will be like on the, the kind of outer part of his head, but like his face will be in shadow or his whole body. Like,
01:09:10
Speaker
you know it it Rizzo does all kinds of different things. Yeah, and I think it's worth it's worth ah shouting out Steve Buccellato, who did the colors on this as well, for really complimenting that kind of neo-noir look that Edward Oriso brought to it.
01:09:26
Speaker
Okay, there is one panel where the Kingpin like makes a phone call, and it is the weirdest looking phone I've ever seen in my fucking life. but That's just what phones looked like back then, Matt. No, it is not. That's a cell phone that has a like a cord coming out of it. That's his that's like a phone charm.
01:09:43
Speaker
You could see the end of that chain. It's it's got like a little Pikachu on It's got like a little Hatsune Miku it. ah I do like comics where they draw they like they draw the Into the Spider-Verse, Bill Sienkiewicz, Kingpin. Because Kingpin has this phone, and it's like...
01:10:05
Speaker
He's holding it between his thumb and forefinger. yeah Because it's tiny compared to him. And I love that. i love... Because hand is gigantic. Yeah. yeah um But, um yeah, it's a good issue. It's... it's it's I mean, look.
01:10:23
Speaker
I think it's kind of a perfect single issue. Like... The reason it got reprinted so much is because it's really good and perfectly paced and exactly one issue of comics. Like, you can give this to somebody who knows who Spider-Man is, who knows the Kingpin is, and they will get it.
01:10:45
Speaker
And it's it's digestible. It is... It is a... it It's kind of a perfect single issue. Like, it's...
01:10:56
Speaker
I think it's funny that it was reprinted so much when it yeah came out. get it. it's it's well it's It's weird that it's printed so much, right? Because... Because it's a Spider-Man comic with without Spider-Man in it.
01:11:10
Speaker
Well, it's a Spider-Man comic where Spider-Man's in one panel, and it makes Spider-Man look naive. Well, it's it's a thing where, like, if if Peter knew this is this was going to happen, it would kill him.
01:11:25
Speaker
yeah And I think that's great. like i think that's Because I don't think it makes Spider-Man look naive, because there was a big crime that Spider-Man stopped.
01:11:36
Speaker
That was bad, and it would have been worse if he hadn't stopped it. well i But I think the implication of the comic is that this is Spider-Man's fault. right like like like If it weren't for Spider-Man, this guy wouldn't be dead.
01:11:51
Speaker
Well, I don't know other people might be dead because the weapons deal would have happened. But, you know, the the the actions of Spider-Man directly led to this guy this guy's death.
01:12:04
Speaker
Well, the actions of Spider-Man and also this guy's actions. Like, one of the things, because here's the thing. I wouldn't say that um we've we've both read enough Greg Rucka comics to know that that's not how he views superheroes.
01:12:20
Speaker
yeah So I think like it's very important that they have that, you know, that Tom has that conversation with his wife and that he has the conversation with Richie where he's like, no, I knew like i know i knew when I joined up, if you fuck up once, that's it.
01:12:38
Speaker
Like, I knew, like, when he gets the call and it's like, yeah, Fisk wants to see me. And his wife's like, he's going fucking kill you. He's like, I know. I know. Like, yep, that's exactly what's going to happen.
01:12:53
Speaker
So it's not like, it's not his fault, but it is the consequence of working for Kingpin. For sure, yeah. You know, and this guy knew what he was getting into.
01:13:07
Speaker
And I think the, I don't think Peter would view it as his fault. yeah But I think that's the that's the key to the story, is that like this is how Kingpin operates, and that's why Spider-Man has to stop him wherever he can. Because eventually Kingpin run out of henchmen to kill.
01:13:36
Speaker
i really like it. That's a good comic. There's a scene where Tom goes and kisses his son goodbye. And his son has like fallen asleep with the covers, like not even under the covers, with a comic book like on his chest.
01:13:55
Speaker
And the comic book just says, Superhero, um the cover. Uh-huh. So in the Marvel Universe, there's a comic book that's just called Superhero. What's wild is that in the Marvel Universe, there's a comic called The Amazing Spider-Man.
01:14:10
Speaker
That's true. and there's ah There's a Captain America comic drawn by Steve Rogers. um Do you think those issues were good?
01:14:22
Speaker
No, he couldn't put any time into that. he i mean He was we see's doing other stuff. We see the editors like them. Yeah. And we see them get fired for not being able to hit a deadline.
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. Which is very funny.
01:14:39
Speaker
Imagine if Imagine if... Fucking... trying I'm trying to think of like what would be the equivalent.
01:14:52
Speaker
Like... Who do we love who drew like six issues of comics and was never seen again? you know?
01:15:02
Speaker
like Imagine that guy was suddenly like, oh, by the way... He was the leader of SEAL Team 6. That's why that's why doc Bright never had... you know That's why Chris Sprouse never had a big run on Superman.
01:15:17
Speaker
Right. was Because he was actually the leader of SEAL Team 6. he He was too busy he was too busy um saving the world, yeah. You'd be going back and looking at those fucking issues of Tom Strong like, that's just wild. Yeah.
01:15:37
Speaker
Alright, where do we reckon Severance Package? I mean, it is kind of a... like like I think it is kind of a perfect issue of comics. It's not my favorite. I don't know if it's the best. But in the way that like Tetris is a perfect video game, this is kind of a perfect comic book.
01:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. yeah um I think it's better than any of the Tangled Web stuff we currently have on the list. The highest we have is Twas the Fight Before Christmas, which is at number 399.
01:16:05
Speaker
I, that's a good issue. That's ah it's good issue a really good issue. I think the only competition for it being the best issue of Tangled Web are the the Darwin Cook issues, which the Fight Before Christmas is one of them.
01:16:21
Speaker
And the one that Raven wrote, which is a very similar story.
01:16:31
Speaker
Raven and Brian Azzarello. Yeah. That was number 14. I mean, is it... you know i i have i have spoken about Uncanny X-Men 183 by Claremont and John Romita Jr. ah He'll Never Make Me Cry as being another perfect like single issue of comics.
01:16:55
Speaker
yeah And I think that's... like
01:17:00
Speaker
I think this is on par. I don't think it's as good as Welcome Back Frank, which is 102, but I think it's, you know, there's a lot of good stuff in the in the hundreds that I think this could this could be, you know, stand alongside. The thing is, it's a very top-heavy list that's very crowded with comics that, like, yeah I don't know if this is better than than those. I don't know if this is better than...
01:17:28
Speaker
then
01:17:31
Speaker
Suicide Squad number 10. you know Another kind of perfect comic. I'm going to say it's not better than There's No Hope in Crime Alley. No, that's a good comic, Matt. I think that's the right call.
01:17:42
Speaker
That's at 122. Yeah. But it's better than ah it's better than Punisher Kites, The Bargain Basement, No Hope in Crime Alley, which is at 1205. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:17:53
Speaker
Joe 100 is at 163. um gi i joe one hundred is at one sixty three That's a fucking great comic.
01:18:00
Speaker
like that's a That's a perfect single issue comic. yeah That shit opens with Cobra Commander kicking a dog. So you know fuck that guy. ah The Glory Boat is at 188. God, that's also a good comic.
01:18:16
Speaker
Goddamn. I'd say it's on on par with Incredible Hulk number 312, which we have at number 198. is Monster. Monster. that is monster That's Monster. Which is a great single issue. I like i think that issue is an excellent single issue, and I think this is just as good. Suicide Squad number 10 is at 194.
01:18:42
Speaker
So I think this is this is the neighborhood. Is it better than Kraven's Last Hunt, which is at 203?
01:18:50
Speaker
Shit. Probably not. Again, I think like very comparable in terms of like here's a darker, weirder, yeah offbeat Spider-Man story. it's Here's another story where Spider-Man... Spider-Man doesn't directly cause something bad, but he will blame himself for a bad thing happening.
01:19:11
Speaker
um Spider-Man, you can't blame yourself for Kraven eating all them spiders when he was naked. licking milk out of that bowl. Totally butt-ass naked. You know what? Ryan North and Erica Henderson, you tell Erica this next time you you're on the Haunted Doll podcast, Matt.
01:19:29
Speaker
Okay. They should have done a comic book where Spider-Man was like, hey man, what was up with you getting naked and eating all those spiders? He wasn't there. he didn't see that. That Craven should have been like, yeah man, don't know. I was going through a lot.
01:19:41
Speaker
I was going through it i was i it was it. It was a bad time. You know, I was real angry. oh Riding up and down the road, leaving messages on Christian's voicemail. ah Batman 425 is... 204 is Batman 425 consequences. Okay, it's not that good.
01:19:58
Speaker
Okay, alright. 219 is the fraction Carmine DiDiomenico Mandarin story from Iron Man Annual. yeah unwro in withwiment manual That's a really good single issue comic. That is a good single issue.
01:20:14
Speaker
The Death Wish of Terrible Turpin is at 220. God, that's also a good comic. Man, I like it when people send in comics that are this good, because I get to look at the top of the list and be like, wow, comics are good.
01:20:26
Speaker
Yes, yes. ah hu
01:20:35
Speaker
and I'm looking at for other single issues. ah Let's see. How do we have the hood at 251? The hood good. but is good Yeah, it's good, but it's not 251 good.
01:20:49
Speaker
It's good. Matt, that's... The hood is above Astro City Confession and OMAC Volume 1. Yeah, it's good. Wild. Okay.
01:20:59
Speaker
That must have been a Matt Wilson decision. um Okay. Superman Beyond three d That's at 225. That's a good comic, but I do we think this is better.
01:21:15
Speaker
Okay. Two Kyle comics are above that. Kill Them All and Old Head. I think those are both better than this. Okay, so this is the new number 225, then.
01:21:27
Speaker
Kill Them All's great. Kill Them All is great. Underrated, I think.
01:21:35
Speaker
Okay, so this is Severance Package. Spider-Man's Tangled Web.
01:21:44
Speaker
Number... Number four. Four. Severance Package.
01:21:55
Speaker
The comic that got reprinted so many times. You know, I bet if we go back and look, it was reprinted like twice. Probably. And we just feel like it was Fastlane.
01:22:10
Speaker
It felt like it was Fastlane, and you'd just be reading a comic, and then there's 20 pages of this Spider-Man story in there. Yes, yes. All right. um we'll take ah We'll try a couple backups from Greg, since there were some we couldn't rank.
01:22:25
Speaker
um The first is The War Within from Superman Adventures number 11 through 12.
01:22:31
Speaker
I've definitely read those. Because I've read all of Superman Adventures. I need to look them up, though. Are these Miller issues or are these Evan Dorkin issues? These are...
01:22:44
Speaker
Neither. ah Scott McCloud. Oh, interesting. um forgot that Scott McCloud did a couple issues with Superman a Adventures. Obviously. ah
01:22:56
Speaker
Textbooks, man. Textbooks. You read this? It's like reading homework.
01:23:04
Speaker
I'm just kidding. i don't i don't have I don't know why I'm being a dick to Scott McCloud. Scott McCloud's good. Zot's great. I'm going say the comics is good. Zot is great.
01:23:15
Speaker
oh I don't remember what happens in these issues.
01:23:25
Speaker
I don't think I've ever read these. so i mean i've i've definitely I've read all of Superman Adventures. I do not remember what is what happens in these issues.
01:23:39
Speaker
And why it is called The War Within. There's a lot of Lois in it. Yeah, it seems to be a very Lois-focused story. Which I'm all for. That sounds great. yeah I would have to read these again.
01:23:54
Speaker
Because they're very, for especially for like, Adventurers comics, they're very dense. A lot of like, six and seven panel pages, a lot of dialogue. Yeah.
01:24:05
Speaker
So I don't feel comfortable going off my memories of 20 years ago when I read those. Okay.
01:24:16
Speaker
Let's see. Scott McCloud and Rick Burchett. Rick Burchett's great. I have i have some Rick Burchett originals. Yeah. All the characters are very on-model.
01:24:27
Speaker
that Matt, say something nice about this comic right now, because that sounds like the meanest thing you could say. i think it's a i think it's a nice thing to say. Matt, you know, you know you it's got two staples.
01:24:44
Speaker
ah I think it's hard to draw the adventures, the animated books, and for them to look right. And Rick Burchett was always great at it.
01:24:56
Speaker
That's true. but Batman and Superman. Rick Burchett was great at that and is also great at drawing other stuff. Like if you only know Rick Burchett as a guy who can draw kind of like Bruce Timm, go read some of his other stuff. That dude kicks ass.
01:25:15
Speaker
Okay, the other backups I don't think we've read either. um That was yesterday from Runaways Volume 5, numbers 13 through 18. Runaways Volume 5?
01:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, I did have definitely not read that volume of Runaways. All comics should go back to Legacy Numbers. That's maybe like the Rainbow Rowell.
01:25:37
Speaker
Yeah, I don't believe I've read that. i do I do like Rainbow Rowell, though. like I like both ah her comics and I've read a couple of her novels that are really good. She has one of my ah one of my favorite ah jokes that I immediately stole for D&D, which in the ah in the Simon Snow book, they talk about fighting worsters, which are badgers, but worse.
01:25:59
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. yeah It's really good. That's exactly the shit I like. ah Yeah, it's it's the Rainbow Rowell run on Runaways, which...
01:26:11
Speaker
I have not read. And then, uh, Paper Girls, numbers one through 30. I have, um, at least one Paper Girls trade paperback that I have not cracked open.
01:26:23
Speaker
I have also not read Paper Girls. That's Cliff Chang, right? That's K. Vaughn and Cliff Chang. Brian K. Vaughn and Cliff Chang, yeah. I bet it's great. bet that shit's good. Yeah. I bet it's great. But you know what? Unfortunately, Josh 2 keeps coming out.
01:26:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:41
Speaker
Uh, Also, Greg submitted a list of peanut strips about Franklin, which we're not doing because we don't do comic strips anymore. Sorry, Greg.
Comics vs. Discussions
01:26:51
Speaker
yeah I feel like part of part of the point of every story ever is that you and I have spent a lot of our lives reading comics. So like if you want to know what the Mark Grunewald run of Captain America is like, that'll take you a while to read.
01:27:05
Speaker
It will actually probably take you exactly as long to read as it did for us to talk about it, now that I think of it. But, ah you know, if you haven't read all these 1600 comics, that would take some time. You could just listen to us talk about them. That's probably quicker.
01:27:19
Speaker
Those peanut strips, you can just go read them. Yeah. They're quick. They're like three panels. and You can read a strip in no time. Yeah. um Okay. And know what? I bet they're good.
Chris Claremont's X-Men and Fan Theories
01:27:32
Speaker
Our next list is from Sam Rutzik. ah And this list is called Really, We're Just Good Friends. Okay, interesting. Is this going to be a kiddie pride?
01:27:45
Speaker
ah Rachel Summers heavy me list? Well, first is X-Men True Friends number one through three by Chris Claremont and Rick Leonardi.
01:27:57
Speaker
I haven't read this, but man, a Chris Claremont book called X-Men True Friends should just be called X-Men Subtext. The X is big. ah um it It is a Kitty Pryde book. It is a Kitty Pryde Rachel Summers book.
01:28:18
Speaker
Nailed it. Crushed it. I...
01:28:21
Speaker
i oh i was I was reading so many Marvel comics at this time. Yeah, God, what is this, 98? 99. Yeah. And I did not read this.
01:28:36
Speaker
I'll tell you what, it's got one of the funniest first pages I've ever seen.
01:28:41
Speaker
Which is, it's just a splash page of Kitty Pryde in the middle of the road, and a car's coming at her, and she's just saying, car? Yeah.
01:28:53
Speaker
Well, yeah, Kitty, you're in the street. Yeah, we haven't read this. ah So, don't know what to tell you. i mean, like i'll I'll tell you. They're girlfriends.
01:29:06
Speaker
They're true girlfriends. Like, I was reading some X-Men comics at this time. i'd like you know i
01:29:16
Speaker
X-Men was not like my thing as a teenager. I was reading a lot more a Spider-Man and stuff like that. But, ah I don't know. I think the Chris Claremont of it all, like, at this point in time, like, a Chris Claremont X-Men comic was not a selling point for me. Yeah, this was like right this was, like, right on either during or on the verge of the third Claremont run.
01:29:43
Speaker
yeah And, oof. this This would have been around the time of Extreme X-Men. Oh, no, this is this is before Extreme X-Men. Extreme X-Men's, like, post-Morrison.
01:29:56
Speaker
Extreme X-Men was to at the same time as more Extreme X-Men, yeah, at same time as Morrison. But, yeah. But this is when Claremont was back on Uncanny.
01:30:07
Speaker
And yeah Beast wore a big suit.
01:30:15
Speaker
I don't mean like a big suit like talking heads. I mean like he wore a costume that covered up his entire body. yeah ah Sam, i don't I don't know how your list is going fare here, um unfortunately. ah I'm not ah also not like a Kitty Pryde Rachel Summers guy. i'm ah You and I are from the Jubilee generation.
01:30:34
Speaker
Yeah. um Next is Future Foundation Numbers one through five by Jeremy Whitley. I know I read some of that Future Foundation book. Uh, it's good.
01:30:48
Speaker
I remember reading it. I unfortunately don't remember other things about it. Yeah. But it could be, it's it's probably worth revisiting. You know, we, Jeremy Whitley, friend of the show, big fans.
01:31:01
Speaker
Uh, that again, probably less subtextual and more textual than Claremont was getting in 99. ah Some good art in here by Will Robson and Paco Diaz.
01:31:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. But but yeah, i I don't remember it well enough to rank it, and I don't even know if I read every issue, if I'm being honest.
01:31:28
Speaker
um And then, finally, X-Men Blue Origins No. 1 by Cy Spurrier and Marcus Toe. ah did did Did not read it.
01:31:39
Speaker
Did not read it? Sorry. wild to call your X-Men book Blue Origins. bullet is it Is it X-Men Blue Origins? Or is it X-Men Blue Origins?
01:31:53
Speaker
It's X-Men Blue colon Origins. But it is still and nuts in 2033. This is the this is the the one where you find out that Nightcrawler's dad is Mystique.
01:32:08
Speaker
I read this one. You read this one. we did We talked about this on the show, didn't we? Yes. That's a terrible title, because it says the word Origins three times on the cover. Like, in the logo. Also, Blue Origin was a company.
01:32:22
Speaker
but What did Blue Origin make? ah at Rocket ships. Oh, weird. It's it's ah Jeff Bezos' is rocket ship company. Oh, weird.
01:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, this is the origins of two blue X-Men. the Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Why didn't they – and like this is the only issue of it. It's like a one-shot. Why didn't they call it X-Men Nightcrawler and Mystique?
01:32:52
Speaker
I mean, they could have just called it X-Men Blue, because there wasn't in a book called X-Men Blue at the time. It was over. the The previous Cullen Bunn X-Men Blue book was over by this. I mean, here's here's how you know this was a bad title.
01:33:09
Speaker
You and I have both read this and know exactly what this issue is, and ah we can discuss it and and rank it easily. But from that title, neither of us knew what it was. And we are two people who generally know a lot about comics. You could say, hey, Batman, Daughter of the Demon, I know exactly what issue issue you're talking about.
01:33:31
Speaker
X-Men Blue Origins.
01:33:36
Speaker
That's that's nothing Anyway, this is a good comic, and I liked it a lot. And I know that there are other people who are far more invested in Nightcrawler than I am, and Mystique, yeah who, I believe, ah Kevin Maroney, think, ah ah like texted me when this came out. Kevin Maroney, listener of the show.
01:34:03
Speaker
ah Someone who will spend all year oh ah taking notes on things that I say that I immediately forget on this show, and then buys me coffee ah at the end of the year, and gets out a notebook to settle his grievances with the things I've said. Which is the only way that I will accept criticism.
01:34:30
Speaker
you have to buy me something. You have to give me a cup of coffee and be nice about it. Kevin's very, I love Kevin. But he messaged me when this came out and he was like, yeah, this is the, this is a comic that I have been waiting 30 years for.
01:34:47
Speaker
ah Because this is the reveal that ah Nightcrawler is Destiny and Mystique's child.
01:35:01
Speaker
Nightcrawler's father is not the Demon Azazel. Right. Right, yeah. oh Who we always call Nightcrawler's dad when we talk about the Demon Azazel on Apocryphals.
01:35:13
Speaker
oh It is... It's it's like... Yeah. Mystique is safe shifter. she can like she her She can change her DNA.
01:35:26
Speaker
Like, if she wants to two father a child with her longtime a lover Longtime partner. That makes total sense.
01:35:39
Speaker
But that is a thing that makes so much sense that it it was like a like fan cannon. It was like head cannon for years. And then when the Azazel stuff happened, that was bad for a lot of reasons.
01:35:49
Speaker
Shout out to Chuck. He's doing better these days. We wish him nothing but the best. Yeah, shout out to shock Chuck the Truck. Shout out to Chuck the Truck. Holding it down. She-Ra, Steven Universe, King of the Hill.
01:36:02
Speaker
Love that for you, Chuck. Genuinely, legitimately not sarcastic. ah But yeah, like that was bad. And this is like... The the best part of this when Mystique was like, yeah, I told him it was Zazel's kid.
01:36:20
Speaker
Dumbasses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we wanted to hide it. um Because, you know... Yeah. we We made a baby. Yeah. So, like, it's...
01:36:34
Speaker
And I don't just think it's like... It is not just a good story because... Oh, that... that Your headcanon theory is now... ah Now canon.
01:36:48
Speaker
You know? like That is a value-neutral proposition. Geoff Johns had the headcanon that Superboy was a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor and made that canon in Teen Titans.
01:37:02
Speaker
And I don't think that... resonates as well as other things do. That's a nice way of saying that, right?
01:37:15
Speaker
ah It's also like presented in a oh a compelling and interesting way. ah it makes sense. like The the the flow of it makes sense. It adds a lot of like drama to Mystique and Destiny's past, which is ah ah really interesting. like Mystique's a really cool character in this.
01:37:46
Speaker
And ah yeah, ah like it it looks really good. I think it works. It's good. You know, i I have to admit something.
01:37:56
Speaker
ah i have tried to read a lot of Cy Spurrier comics and just bounced off of every single one of them. And I don't think i don't think that's a Cy Spurrier problem. I think that's a me problem.
01:38:12
Speaker
But like, I don't know why i don't know why i i have such a a thing where like, I just don't connect with Cy Spurrier's
01:38:28
Speaker
writing style. um maybe Maybe not the judgeres Judge stuff that he wrote, but like like Legion.
01:38:40
Speaker
like I remember trying to read Legion, and just like it just didn't work for me. That might be a Legion problem. Yeah. um But like this issue is good.
01:38:54
Speaker
Like... of Of all of the Psy Spurrier comics I've ever tried to read or or engaged with, um this is the one that I've kind of felt the most sort of connection with.
01:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, Spurrier is not someone that I have like
01:39:14
Speaker
a lot of experience with, and that i have like not someone that i have a lot of feelings about one way or the other. But I do like this issue, for sure. Yeah.
01:39:25
Speaker
Yeah, good, solid comics. if you're if you're gonna If you're going to make your headcanon canon, do it like this. Do it good. Yeah, do it good.
01:39:37
Speaker
Just do it good. Just do it good. Every time I read a every time i read a bad comic, I'm like, man, that ain't hard to make a good one. Just do it good. i mean But, that said, we art seem to be enjoying bad comics as much as good ones lately.
01:39:56
Speaker
if you make it bad, make it like fun bad. yeah Either do a good comic, or do a bad comic, and then 20 years later do another bad comic!
01:40:10
Speaker
That I can have experience personal growth before I read. yeah Alright, we can rank X-Men Blue colon Origins. If you're going to make a bad comic, you've got to do it after I get medicated.
01:40:32
Speaker
Where do you think X-Men Blue colon Origins goes? Wherever we want to put it, we've got to drop it ten spots for that title. I'm afraid that's true, yeah. I'm afraid... like You cannot make me think of Jeff Bezos' as rocket ship company when I'm trying to read an X-Men comic. The logo says, Origins, Origins, Origins, X-Men Blue.
01:40:57
Speaker
That's what it says on the cover of the book. I mean, I think that is somewhat required by the ah Krakoa-era logo.
01:41:13
Speaker
conventions. Then change the logo. You could show this to Dylan Todd and he would be repelled like Dracula seeing the cross. Dylan Todd, great graphic designer. ah Fantastic logo designer. Hire him for your comics.
01:41:28
Speaker
Yeah, hire him. Friend of the show. We love Dylan. Yeah,
01:41:34
Speaker
man. It's good. um Probably not as good as the Painting the Date Paris. Probably not, yeah. But you know Is it as good as Jonah covers the waterfront I think so Yeah
01:42:01
Speaker
yeah I mean I think it's that good Yeah They should have called this comic Bluton Genesis Bluton Genesis is very funny ah That's very good That is very good. Oh, you can tell it's getting a little late at night, folks.
01:42:19
Speaker
ah i think it's I think it's better than Jonah covers the waterfront. Well, that comic is above Transformers vs. G.I. Joe, the movie adaptation. i don't know what we were doing there.
01:42:33
Speaker
um I don't think it's as good as Empire of Chairs. I would put it right above Jonah covers the waterfront. That's that's my suggestion. Okay, but then we've got to drop it ten spots.
01:42:44
Speaker
Then we've got to drop it ten spots. So that would put it, I believe, right below Mr. Band from Akewood. would put it right above Mr. Band. Right above, but let's put it below Mr. Band.
01:42:56
Speaker
Okay, that makes it the new number 790.
01:43:06
Speaker
X-Men colon blue colon origins.
01:43:11
Speaker
I think it's just X-Men Blue colon Origins.
01:43:21
Speaker
X-Men colon We Blue Ourselves.
01:43:28
Speaker
There's gotta be a better title. There's gotta be a better title. Bluetent Group. Bluetent Group, yeah.
PSA Comics and Spider-Man in Canada
01:43:37
Speaker
Alright, here's our next list.
01:43:39
Speaker
Do we have time for another list, Matt? Oh, yeah. We certainly have time to start another list. We've got about...
01:43:52
Speaker
Well, you know, we've got maybe 20 minutes left. um So, we'll start this Let's go up with some more puns for the title of this comic. Uh...
01:44:07
Speaker
Uh...
01:44:09
Speaker
My Blue Haven. baby. Baby.
01:44:18
Speaker
This list is from CJ Kroll. This is a list from CJ Kroll. It's a list of PSA comics. Do love some PSA comics. You're talking to someone who who bought ah the paperback collection of Spider-Man substance of abuse comics.
01:44:38
Speaker
a Brand new, full cover price. ah First from CJ is Spider-Man Skating on Thin Ice.
01:44:50
Speaker
What's that one about? Uh... ah It's, uh, I'm sure I've read this before. is Is this actually going to be about thin ice, or is it going to be about drugs?
01:45:05
Speaker
it It's going to be about drugs. It had a Todd cover. Boy, it does have a, where a kid is wearing an Edmonton Oilers jersey. Yeah, man. That's how you know it's you know it's straight Todd.
01:45:19
Speaker
Uh, let's see. This cover does look like Spider-Man has brought these kids to his drug lab.
01:45:27
Speaker
He's got them like looking at ah at beer and a syringe and cigarettes and bottles of pills. Yeah, yeah but they're all webbed up, so Spider-Man's like, what are you buying?
01:45:41
Speaker
take ah Take a look at what I got. You know what? I don't know if I've read this comic, but I bet it's good. Dwayne McDuffie and Alex Savick. ah Yeah, I mean, the the interior art does not look like the cover because it's Alex Savick. Matt Todd ain't drawing this. Instead Todd McFarlane.
01:45:57
Speaker
um But um yeah, Dwayne McDuffie wrote it. I mean, that's that's pretty good. um So, okay.
01:46:07
Speaker
Peter goes to Winnipeg. I remember i remember this. The hotbed of of drug activity. so So that's why the kid has an Edmonton Oilers jersey. Because he ah Peter does go to Canada.
01:46:20
Speaker
Edmonton is nowhere near Winnipeg.
01:46:24
Speaker
Okay, but yeah those kids like hockey, is what I'm saying. Yeah, the kids like hockey, yeah. oh But ah he he gets an assignment from Jonah, who...
01:46:36
Speaker
um Well, it it actually, he asks Jonah if he can go to Winnipeg, because he finds an invoice after fighting Electro.
01:46:49
Speaker
um Because Electro filled out all his paperwork. Electro is shipping ah materials to Winnipeg. and And so Peter's like, hey, Jonah, can you pay for me to go to Winnipeg?
01:47:03
Speaker
And Jonah yells at him, but agrees to do it. So he goes to Winnipeg. He meets ah this like kid's hockey coach and ah goes to the mall. And the kids the kids from the hockey team are all like doing drugs at the Winnipeg mall.
01:47:22
Speaker
Listen, I've been to Winnipeg. In January? yeah And Jonah probably thought it was a fitting punishment for Spider-Man. For for well Peter. what was What was the occasion to go to Winnipeg?
01:47:34
Speaker
Matt, don't... We'll talk off mic. Okay. Don't bring up my sordid past. Okay. um So peter ah or Spider-Man discovers that Electro has been shipping drugs in hockey pucks. Great.
01:47:54
Speaker
to winnipeg and um he gets the kids from the hockey team to like shoot um to like hit hockey pucks at electro and that's the how they beat electro and he gets like you know arrested and taken off why is electro selling drugs to canada
01:48:20
Speaker
Buddy, yeah they needed they needed a story. That's not Max Dillon's deal.
01:48:32
Speaker
ah Look, Electro's getting ah arrested. And the kids go, thanks for saving us, Spidey. Yeah, thanks. No problem, guys. I was after Electro anyway. That's what Spider-Man says.
01:48:45
Speaker
And then one of the kids says, thanks for talking to me about substance abuse. great ah Matt, is what Spider-Man villain do you think would be most likely to sell drugs to Canada? Because it sure is Hell and Electro. Not to i mean king not to doubt.
01:49:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Kingpin, obviously, but like if you had like who's on the ground? The Owl. I would buy the Owl. Yeah. I would buy the arm Tombstone, maybe.
01:49:15
Speaker
Tombstone could do it. um Electro is a bad choice. Electro is a bad choice. This does not seem... Well...
01:49:26
Speaker
Electro was involved in Dr. Octopus's cocaine rocket. That's true. That's true. ah Anyway, ah there's a hockey game. the The team wins.
01:49:38
Speaker
And... ah And ah the the kid, Alan, who you know was all into drugs, beer and smoking, um like after the game, some some some some street toughs approach him and like immediately hand him a beer and cigarettes and say, drink up, buddy. You coming to the party?
01:50:01
Speaker
And Alan goes, sure am. But you know what? I already realized something. I already feel pretty good. I don't need this stuff to celebrate.
01:50:10
Speaker
And then... Uh, Peter calls Jonah and says, uh, I'm all done here in Winnipeg. Uh,
01:50:22
Speaker
And he says, ah he it in Thought Balloons, he says, you can bet I'm going to keep an eye on Beth. I don't know why that escape mystery man was after her, but I suspect I haven't seen the last of him. One thing's for certain, if he threatens Beth again, if he even shows his face, Spider-Man will be there to stop him. And there's a but to be continued, which it is absolutely not. No, it is. It is, though.
01:50:44
Speaker
There is a second Spider-Man skating on thin ice by Dwayne McDuffie and Herb Trimpey. That follows up, that does have these kids in it.
01:50:56
Speaker
Double trouble. Yeah. Double trouble. What do you know? So I guess he did follow up on it. I was wrong. It was continued. So these were these were made by... These were made for Canada, right?
01:51:12
Speaker
That seems like it has to be what it is. Because why in the world else would Spider-Man be going to Winnipeg? Well, wait up no drugs in New York, man. That's true, yeah. yeah This shit's got the chameleon in it I would buy that guy selling drugs.
01:51:27
Speaker
that guy Yeah, i could I could see that guy selling drugs. That guy a weirdo. Yeah. Selling drugs and hockey pucks to children? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, if you have any comments or questions about this comic, send them to Spider-Man, Care of Community Programs Group, 643 Queen Street East, Toronto, Ontario.
01:51:48
Speaker
Yeah, so this was CanCon. This was CanCon.
01:51:54
Speaker
wild Wild. Look, we love joy we love Dwayne McDuffie here. Dwayne McDuffie is an underrated king of ah writing comics.
01:52:05
Speaker
Absolutely. ah But this story is not good. Like, not even fun like Fastlane. Well, nothing's fun like Fastlane, Matt.
01:52:16
Speaker
Like, why is it a Electro... They shoot hockey. I mean, it's funny. It's electro. It's okay. Here's what I am betting is Dwayne McDuffie's thought process.
01:52:30
Speaker
Canada. Hockey. Hockey pucks? Hockey pucks are made of rubber. yeah Electro? Sure. Yeah. Because he went a par elect rubber is an insulator, and so electro can't affect the hockey pucks.
01:52:46
Speaker
There's even a part where Electro's like, you think those hockey pucks going to stop me? And then he goes, ugh! And he gets hit by the hockey puck. Which you would think Spider-Man would just like carry around a hockey puck. because if you if you Especially if you're you've got the proportionate strength of a spider. If you just fucking wing one of those right into Electro's head, he's going down.
01:53:06
Speaker
I'm going to come down on this is funny but bad. Okay, so which where would where would you put it? So I think that is probably... Huh, okay, what's where's where's where's funny but bad?
01:53:25
Speaker
We have Fastlane 1147. This isn't sniffing that. How is Fastlane that low? This isn't sniffing that. How is a comic that we love that low?
01:53:37
Speaker
i mean, it is objectively bad.
01:53:41
Speaker
but sounds like yeah it Sounds like pothead talk to me. But we love it.
01:53:48
Speaker
Yeah. it Sounds like a real Zane Whelan partisan to me. that's that's some That's some pothead talk, for sure.
01:53:58
Speaker
ah ah
01:54:05
Speaker
Like, okay, Maximum Carnage is at 14.02. Okay.
01:54:10
Speaker
I think Maximum Carnage is better than this. Finally showing some respect. It's exactly as good as Streets of Poison, which is at 1405. Oh,
01:54:26
Speaker
of the faintest of praise. I think I'm going to put this right below Streets of Poison, making it the new number 1406. So it is better than The Death of Clark Kent. Yeah, it's better than The Death of Clark Kent.
01:54:38
Speaker
Oh, what was that guy's name? Conduit. Conduit.
01:54:47
Speaker
um Spider-Man Skating on Thin Ice goes at number 1406. I think we can rank one more on CJ's lift list, and then we have to come back to it next time. um Next on CJ's list is Superman and Batman Heroes Against Hunger.
01:55:05
Speaker
a I mean, you know, i like both those guys. I like both of those guys. Hang hang on a second. I've got to make sure to put in ah the the accurate information that this was a comic published by Marvel and Canada.
01:55:20
Speaker
Yes, it's joint production of Marvel and Canada. Okay, I've never read Batman and Superman Heroes Against Hunger. ah i i I know the cover.
01:55:35
Speaker
I am looking at the cover by Neil Adams and Dick Giordano. It's bonkers.
01:55:44
Speaker
Okay, let's... Yeah, yeah. This this cover is madness. Yeah, yeah.
01:55:56
Speaker
Lex Luthor, in his power suit...
01:56:02
Speaker
is pointing at Superman and saying, they're dying, Superman, and you not ah yeah all your power can save them. Superman is holding onto the hand of a dying child being held by his mother and accompanied by, like i assume, you know a sibling or or some some other kid. And then in the background is all these other starving people um and Batman just like looking like standing there looking like there's nothing he can do.
01:56:34
Speaker
And Superman is crying, holding this child's hand. And it says on the cover, all proceeds go to relieve hunger in Africa, because this is from 1986 when like live aid and feed the world and all of that stuff was like so huge.
01:56:52
Speaker
um And so, you know, this is a benefit comic in that vein. And man, that cover is wild.
01:57:07
Speaker
Yeah, man. Yeah, man. It also, it it really does look like Lex Luthor is responsible for starving all these children. Is starving these people, yeah.
01:57:22
Speaker
Like, Lex is rich. he could He could pay for these people to eat.
01:57:29
Speaker
um Look, I have not read this comic. No, I have not either. I'm going to guess it's bad. ah And the reason I would guess it's bad yeah is because every page has a different writer and artist.
01:57:46
Speaker
Has a different entire creative team. Yeah, every two-page spread... so ah So there's a plotted by credit for Jim Starlin.
01:57:59
Speaker
Yeah. Like Jim Starlin plotted the whole thing. And then plot assistant character designs by Bernie Wrightson. And then, yes, from then on, it is creative team for two pages like Jim Starlin does the first and last page with George Perez.
01:58:23
Speaker
And then from then on, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, it's a different writer, different artist, different anchor, different letterer, and different colorist. Yeah. Because because clearly everybody's doing two-page spread and donating it it's it it's for the cost.
01:58:42
Speaker
It's the, we are the world of comics. Yeah. um And here's the thing about We Are the World. It's not a very good song. It's not a very good song. And Dan Aykroyd was there.
01:58:57
Speaker
That's weird, right? like he's that is That is weird, yeah. um um just so I'm just going to guess by its nature as a weird exquisite corpse ah style book It's just gonna be weird.
01:59:19
Speaker
ah Here's what I'll say, though. It has the best fucking back cover of any comic I've ever seen. there's a Jack Kirby spread in here. so What's the back cover?
01:59:34
Speaker
The back cover is a Superman and Batman pinup by Bill Sienkiewicz.
01:59:40
Speaker
It's very moody. the Superman is like posing like Lex Luger. And is huge. Well, yeah, Matt. He's big.
01:59:51
Speaker
Big guy. and Batman is just like bathed in shadow. Yeah. And crouched down. Superman is like all like very light ink wash. So he's like almost like he's drawn in white and Batman is drawn in black.
02:00:05
Speaker
it's It's a pretty it's pretty kick ass back cover.
02:00:11
Speaker
There's, um ah ah there' I gotta see which two pages these are. There's like two pages in here where Batman just fully looks like Adam West Batman.
02:00:26
Speaker
These Jack Kirby pages are bananas. Ah, who drew these?
02:00:32
Speaker
I really want to know. It's page 20, okay. it's page twenty okay
02:00:40
Speaker
who drew Page 20 is Joe Brzezowski.
02:00:45
Speaker
Those pages are nuts. Inked by Mike Kaluta, that's why.
02:00:52
Speaker
wait, who put what's inked by Mike Kaluta? Page 20. but No, that's page 18 and 19. Oh, is it? Yeah. Page 20 and 21 are inked by Gray Morrow.
02:01:04
Speaker
oh yeah, yeah, yeah. but like But Batman looks like he's in the Adam West costume in pages 20 and 21. ah it's It's nuts.
02:01:23
Speaker
Well, he really does. I haven't seen the Jack Kirby pages yet. i mean, they look like Jack Kirby pages.
02:01:34
Speaker
Superman's flying with his legs spread wide open. It was great. Oh, yeah. Damn, that does look like Jack Kirby. Holy shit. There's so much, like, Kirby crackle happening, like, immediately.
02:01:51
Speaker
yeah I like how, if you looked at this page, would you be able to tell that it takes place in Addis Ababa? No. Correct.
02:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, man, I have not read this. This is kind of a weird, fascinating product of its time. But, you know, obviously, good on DC for doing it. Good on everybody for contributing.
02:02:20
Speaker
oh It does have a like letter from Dick Giordano, who was the ah vice president and executive editor of DC Comics at the time, who who does say it's a good story.
02:02:32
Speaker
Which I don't know if You need to say that in a comic where that is true. Yeah, that that makes me think that you're you're protesting a little too much.
02:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. um ah Part of me does want to just like read this, though. It's like 48 pages, Matt. I know. but like I don't mean right now. but i like Part of me does want to read it just to see.
02:03:01
Speaker
Like... the The lettering being different every two pages is bonkers. Couldn't expect Todd Klein do the whole damn thing himself. that like Like, I've seen Art Jam books, but like the lettering being different, that's that's another level. like i guess it's just because like everybody wanted to be part of it, right? Yeah, yeah and it's a lot easier if like you know everybody only has to do two pages and won't disrupt the schedule.
02:03:34
Speaker
yeah They're not losing money by by doing... Especially writers. Writers ain't losing any money. oh I mean, it' well, okay. So it's a different writer and a different artist every two pages. There are so there is some like repetition with letterers and colorists. but
02:03:54
Speaker
Man. That is that is a wild... thing to exist. um CJ, I'm going to try to read this before we come back.
02:04:05
Speaker
I'm not. I'm going to try to read this. Now, in December, we might do we're probably going to do Every Santa Ever, which, send those in. But like when we come back to this in January, I will try to have this read.
02:04:21
Speaker
and And maybe we can rank it then. Yeah. But we're out of time. Thanks for listening, everybody. If you would like to send us an Every Story Ever our list, you can do it at our email address, which is warrocketpodcasts at gmail.com.
02:04:37
Speaker
um Please support these Every Story Ever specials, as well as our weekly War Rocket Ajax show and our other stuff, Comics Catch Up, the other stuff we do, by going to patreon.com slash warrocketajax. You can help us out there.
02:04:58
Speaker
You can also follow us on Blue Sky. We're there at warrocketajax.com. We're on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. You can also join our Discord. Ask us for an invitation on any of the places I just mentioned, and we will send you one.
02:05:14
Speaker
um And you can join our Discord and be part of that community, which is a cool place. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net.
02:05:25
Speaker
That's where you can find links to everything. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website. And it has links to the things that I do.
02:05:39
Speaker
Bye, everybody. We'll see you in December. See you December, everybody, for every Santa ever.
02:05:47
Speaker
Bye. Bye. Forever, forever, forever, ever, ever, ever, ever. Yes! From this day on, let every breed monger live together.