Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep 26- Too Hot, Hot Damn
32 Plays7 months ago
CW: Suicide, suicidal ideation
Skip ahead to 0:38:45 to avoid discussion of these topics
Call the wizard and the fireman- Ryn and Sam return to Minas Tirith where Denethor has succumbed to madness and despair from the palantir, and Pippin must rush to save Faramir from a terrible fate. Tangents include the ethics of physician-assisted suicide, hot gay nurses, and a good bass line.
If this episode brought up anything you would like to talk to anyone about, you can find resources here-
Suicide Crisis Lines (US and Canada): 988 (https://988lifeline.org/) or 1–800–273–8255
Crisis Text Line (US only): Text HOME to 741741
Trans Lifeline: 877-565-8860 (US), 877-330-6366 (Canada) Run by and for trans people
The Trevor Project: 1–866–488–7386 or text START to 678678
National Suicide Prevention Line UK (UK only): 0800 689 5652
Telefonseelsorge (Germany): 0800 111 0 111, or 0800 111 0 222 or at http://www.telefonseelsorge.de/
Centre de Prevention du Suicide (Belgium): 080032123
Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention: https://suicideprevention.ca
If we did not include a crisis line here that is available in your country or preferred language, you can find more at the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines
Please keep yourselves safe.
With love,
Ryn and Sam
Covers Book V Chapter VII The Pyre of Denethor and Book V Chapter VIII The Houses of Healing
Recommended
Transcript
The Charm of 'Leverage' and Its Narrative Style
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm on record on this podcast as having as being in love with scoundrel characters. And my other great love in this life is a really good baseline. Tell me more about that. And so accordingly, I'm doing my ah biannual rewatch of leverage but um right now.
00:00:28
Speaker
I found a leverage podcast where they do essentially what we do with Lord of the Rings, but for leverage, which for our listeners that are unfamiliar, I would say stop listening to this episode and go watch leverage, finish this episode, then go start leverage.
Leverage as a D&D Campaign Analogy
00:00:44
Speaker
Um, it is a beautiful, gorgeous found family tale of a bunch of thieves stealing from the rich, um, Robin hooding all over the place.
00:00:58
Speaker
And isn't that just every D&D campaign? Yes, it is. It's a D and&D camp. It's like it's got the D and&D campaign vibes because it's it's the found family. It's the characters that are sort of hyper specialized in one thing. They all have their roles. There's the hacker, the hitter, the grifter, the thief and the mastermind. And every one of those characters is just wonderful. The mastermind is kind of the worst part of the show, but like He's fine. Yeah, I've been
Critique of Leverage Podcast's Musical Choices
00:01:31
Speaker
very much enjoying it. um I love the soundtrack. i love the it's It's just a baseline that I figured out year how to play years ago. My one gripe with the podcast I've been listening to about it so far, and I'm i'm only like three episodes into the podcast. So I'm sure you know when we were three episodes into this podcast, we we still had some work to do.
00:01:54
Speaker
isn but they have like a walking baseline the whole time behind them talking. Oh, just the whole episode. The whole episode. That's a lot.
00:02:07
Speaker
It is, and it it it just repeats. It's like when you're in the Elf Song
Music in Video Games: A Broader Discussion
00:02:13
Speaker
Tavern in Baldur's Gate 3. Don't fucking talk to me about the Elf Song Tavern.
00:02:19
Speaker
ah And you just... its way into your nightmares? zoom It's like that.
00:02:36
Speaker
it's Yeah. In Final Fantasy, the ends have a jukebox option. And then you can just pick whatever sound from the soundtrack. And I think that's a fairly standard RPG thing. It is. We could have had that. We could have had that. Animal Crossing does that. Yeah. Wretched. Yeah. Mass Effect, Animal Crossing.
00:02:58
Speaker
Trying to think if there's any others that have that. I love a list of video games where the only two things on the list are Mass Effect and Animal Crossing. That delights me. Which could not be more different games. Exactly. That's why it's funny. And jokes are extra funny when we explain them. So you're welcome listeners. I i was wondering if any of the Assassin's Creed games had that and I don't think they do.
00:03:24
Speaker
but they're also not nearly as repetitious um as the elf song Tavern. but And like, I get it. You can't have like an actual like jukebox thing, which is sort of the, what a lot of video games will like sci-fi or modern video games will build in is that effect is like, Oh, you have a turntable you can change the records on. It's like, okay. But you could just, you could have a bard standing there and you can go up to them and be like, can you play this song?
00:03:53
Speaker
Or you could
Leverage's Unique Appeal and Political Commentary
00:03:54
Speaker
have an enchanted music box. I think that's what they have in Final Fantasy. There's ways. There's ways to make it happen. Also, Baldur's Gate has computers. It has magic computers, so they should be able to play music.
Introduction to Lord of the Rings Discussion
00:04:08
Speaker
Fair. I feel like I was going to talk more about leverage, but I don't really have that much more to talk about other than it is It's a highly underrated show. It's very 2008 for like the first season. um It really does date itself a little bit. But just as ah at like as a vibe, there's a line in the second episode where one of the villains says, in these uncertain times, buying a US congressman is one of the safest investments a company can make.
00:04:45
Speaker
um to which the hacker who's listening on comms goes, ugh, I'm a professional criminal and even I find that disturbing. but And that's just the vibe for the show. It's fantastic. ah I love it. Speaking of the rich and powerful. Taking whatever they want, including their children's lives. Oof. Do we want to roll into the episode? Let's do it.
Denethor's Despair and Gandalf's Role
00:05:14
Speaker
Let's go.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeehaw!
00:05:34
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of The Fen of Apprentice. We are here to make our way through the Lord of the Rings series, which was a series that had a profound impact on me as a child, and which my lovely co-host did not read until now. But we are making our way through it. I'm Sam. I'm the lovely co-host. Thank you. I'm Brynn. I'm the other the other one.
00:06:07
Speaker
The other also lovely co-hosts. We're both very hot. Anyways, so we are talking about chapter seven and eight of Return of the King. And just as a blanket statement for chapter seven, the Pyre of Denethor, big content warning for suicide, suicidal ideation, that's the entire chapter. So if you don't want to listen to that, we will put in the description of the episode when we start talking about chapter eight.
00:06:34
Speaker
and you can skip ahead to there if that is not your thing today, which is totally fine.
Ethical Implications of Suicide and Historical Contexts
00:06:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I was going to say, and never mind. i was I was going to say, you know who else is also really hot? Denethor. No, no, you're keeping that in.
00:06:54
Speaker
Listen, we are going to cope with humor today, and that's fine. um But we start the chapter back where the Witch-King withdraws with Gandalf and Pippin. isnt And Pippin is yeah in tears from hearing the horns of the Rohirrim across the fields.
00:07:23
Speaker
he And there's ah there's a line that I wrote down here, which was, and never in after years could he hear a horn blown in the distance without tears starting in his eyes. I had written down the exact same line. My response to that was, oh, he's traumatized. ah No shit. He's been through a traumatic experience. But he can't stop to be relieved for too long because he came and sought out Gandalf for a reason.
00:07:55
Speaker
which was that Denethor was going to burn himself and Faramir alive. There's just a quick little line that's not important to the plot but that I did write down where he's going out to find Gandalf and Gandalf is on Shadowfax about to leave but Pippin calls out and says, Gandalf, Gandalf cried Pippin, and Shadowfax halted. And specifically, the way that that's phrased implies that Shadowfax is the one listening to Pippin and not Gandalf, because it doesn't say Gandalf halted, or he commanded Shadowfax to halt, Shadowfax halted. And he is making decisions about
Denethor's Monologue and Gandalf's Confrontation
00:08:35
Speaker
where to go and who to listen to. And that was just delightful. And I had to point it out.
00:08:40
Speaker
Well, and I think that's a really good interpretation of this because Gandalf's immediate response is basically like, you can't be here. I don't have time for this. There is so much to do. Get out of my face until Pippin gives him the rundown. And even then Gandalf is like, listen, I can help you and Denethor, or I can help everyone else out there. And I don't know what the best choice is here.
00:09:10
Speaker
And Gandalf is in that position a lot in these two chapters where he will have to choose to help our heroes at the expense of helping someone else. And obviously we want our heroes to get help, but it's a good reminder that even Gandalf has limitations and he can't be everywhere fixing everything all at once.
00:09:34
Speaker
you know, Pippin asked him, you know, can't you save Faramir? Gandalf goes, maybe I can, but if I do, then others will die. But in this case, I think he's he's weighing the need for Faramir's leadership in the next stages of the battle against the unnamed soldier on the walls. And we know too that Gandalf has his his own biases, every character does in here.
Leadership and Downfall in Gondor
00:10:09
Speaker
And we'd we know that, you know, some of these characters are presented as inherently superior. So Faramir, you know, by nature of being of Denethor's bloodline is inherently superior and to the random soldier on the walls. But Gandalf still weighs their lives next to each other, just to remind us that
00:10:35
Speaker
While he's definitely going to go save Faramir, the soldiers on the walls are still dying. Yeah. Speaking of leadership. Gandalf puts Prince Imrehill in charge, just kind of in passing as he rides by saying, oh, I'm going to go see Denethor. You're in charge of the city. OK, bye. And that also kind of happens a lot. There's a lot of uncertainty about who is in charge at any given moment, and that gets especially muddy next chapter. But it is very comical just to go, oh, you're in charge. He's in charge. I don't fucking know. Everything is on fire. One of the things I noticed is that Prince Imrehill keeps getting put in charge.
00:11:15
Speaker
and also very much does not want to be. Yeah, and he's also not the only prince there. He's not the only important person. A lot of people have ridden in to help, but he's just the one who we see the most of. Yeah, and I think he's technically related to Denethor probably the most closely. And so he is sort of like the the senior most member of that bloodline currently conscious. And so in this bloodline succession society, it makes sense for him to keep keep taking command. yeah
Denethor's Use of the Palantir and Sauron's Influence
00:11:59
Speaker
He is of noble birth. They make it to the doors of the Hall of Denethor. And the gate guard there is dead. And Baragond isn't standing guard anymore.
00:12:12
Speaker
because he is busy fighting off the other men. Gandalf swoops in, Denethor busts out. It's a whole fucking nightmare because Baragond is trying to hold off the other men who have been instructed to burn Denethor and Faramir alive. And he's basically going, what the fuck are you doing? They're not dead yet. We're not doing this. But that's technically treason. And it's just a big shit show. Yeah.
00:12:42
Speaker
Which is interesting because the last time we saw Baragon, he was like, I can't abandon my post. isnt And Denethor is about to stab Baragon in the back. But Gandalf telekinesis his sword out of his hand and then gets into a whole fucking argument with him, which is, as we've noted previously, just how Gandalf and Denethor's conversations go. Yeah, I had written Gandalf uses the Force to take Denethor's sword from his hands because it just kind of out of there. And I didn't write down a lot of specific quotes from their interaction. I just got kind of the
Denethor's Accusations Against Gandalf
00:13:18
Speaker
broad strokes. No, I just broad stroke this. Gandalf goes in and carries out Faramir's unconscious body. um And he was lying on a pyre that had been built and drenched in oil, ready to burn Denethor and Faramir side by side.
00:13:41
Speaker
um And Gandalf takes Faramir away and Denethor is furious. He's like, yeah, we can't fight this. Yeah, he has um a heart wrenching monologue about wanting to go into death side by side with his son and no victory that they could achieve could even be worth it at this point. And Gandalf basically replies that with, you know, you're better than this. You might be king, but even you don't have the power to decide the hour of your own death. And. But he's not. Well, yes, he might be in charge. You're. Yes, technically he is not. I don't remember what the exact word is that Gandalf uses because because I didn't write it down. I have it here.
00:14:31
Speaker
Authority is not given to you, Stuart of Gondor, to order the hour of your death. And only the heathen kings under the domination of the dark power did thus, slaying themselves in pride and despair, murdering their kin to ease their own death. And I, then my brain sort of sidetracked here into the ideas of the honorable death and of death as a choice. yeah And so sort of again, double trigger or warning here for talk about suicide. ah Throughout history
Denethor's Death and Gandalf's Reaction
00:15:08
Speaker
there's been and various cultures, there's been various ideas of you know what is an honorable death? If you die in battle, is that an honorable death? If you die in service, is that an honorable death? And there's sort of the idea of a dignified death as well.
00:15:30
Speaker
And in my bioethics class, we talked a lot about the idea of physician-assisted suicide. And there's you know a lot of various opinions on whether physician-assisted suicide should be allowed, under what circumstances it should be allowed. I think there's a couple of states in the US where it's allowed, a couple of countries around the world where physicians cannot administer the drugs, but they can prescribe them and then the patient administers them themselves.
00:16:08
Speaker
And typically the idea is it's given for terminal patients basically as a suffering reduction measure. And so, you know, the idea of Ordering the hour of your own death struck me because that's that's a very Christian suicide is is a sin piece of worldview. And there are many reasons to be cautious about physician assisted suicide, particularly reports of
00:16:46
Speaker
I want to say it's within the Canadian Health System. I was also thinking about Canada. Where physicians have recommended assisted suicide to disabled patients who can't get the treatment that they want, but don't want to die. Or for patients who have severe depression that could result in suicidal ideation one way or another.
00:17:14
Speaker
And it's it's ah it's a complex ethical issue. And in this case, Denethor's
Further Ethical Reflections on Suicide
00:17:22
Speaker
suicide is definitely not a result of him choosing the hour of his death as a way of preserving dignity. you know There's also many stories from throughout history where people before you know invading armies come through will poison themselves and their families or fall on their swords to prevent the pain and destruction that's going to follow under an occupation um or under an invasion. So I don't necessarily, you know, personally, I don't agree with Gandalf that like, um only that like what Gandalf is implying here is that choosing the hour of your death is evil.
00:18:10
Speaker
or at the very least barbaric and beneath Denethor. Yeah. No, and and i and I don't agree with that. um Obviously, Denethor is in the wrong here. Denethor is trying, is killing Faramir without Faramir's, you know, he's he's pulling Faramir off of life support more or less, except in this case, like Faramir has chances of making it through and will ultimately survive. And Denethor has been,
00:18:42
Speaker
corrupted, but I don't think Denethor's despair here necessarily makes him evil or makes him barbaric. And no one who chooses suicide, whether that be yeah with the aid of a physician or not, I think is and is barbaric or evil. I think that's that's a very backward way of. life Yeah, that's a perspective that helps no one. Just like shame in general is a terrible way to get any kind of point across elevating or wholly condemning anyone with suicidal ideations, whether or not they act on them. It's just it's stupid. It's not going to help anybody. Nobody is going to get the result that they want out of that situation. Right.
00:19:35
Speaker
But, you know, like, like Ganoff is sort of getting at here is if Denethor had made it through
Modern Comparisons to Denethor's Despair
00:19:44
Speaker
this bout of despair, what, what might've become of him and his life? Could he have broken free of the corruption that Sauron had placed upon him? Faramir survives his injury.
00:20:02
Speaker
I think the side of things that my bioethics class really came down on was physician assisted suicide is most acceptable when you know solely applied to terminal patients in which their prognosis basically indicates severe physical or cognitive decline and pain prior to death.
00:20:32
Speaker
because otherwise you run the risk of things happening like we've seen coming out of Canada where patients who otherwise could live very happy and healthy lives are being recommended suicide rather than being given the treatments that they need. Yeah, to recommend that another human being end their own life is, I can't. get behind that, just to have the option in conversation with your physician. Sure, that's a personal choice. But to be like, you, I don't think your life is worth living. That's not, don't do that. It's ridiculously
Suicide Hotlines and Compassionate Understanding
00:21:12
Speaker
ableist for starters. I mean, that's, that's almost goes without saying, but that's, that's what lies at the core of all of that. But yeah, I was, I was thinking about the ideas of, you know, what is an honorable death? What is a dignified death?
00:21:27
Speaker
And sometimes can those come about by choice rather than by circumstance. Yeah. I'm also thinking.
00:21:39
Speaker
You know, and these are complex ethical questions that ah we here on your comedy podcast do not have clear answers to. Don't make medical decisions. No. Things you heard podcasters say, please. But we are also recording this on 9-11. And I'm thinking about a because we're both old enough that we were technically alive, but don't really remember a whole lot. But I have some distinct memories that I remember.
00:22:06
Speaker
listening to a podcast, it might have been 99% invisible, where they were talking about people who were in the Twin Towers who made the choice to jump rather than go down with the building and those deaths not being ruled as suicides because those people didn't really have a choice. And it presented a huge religious issue for people, Catholics and I'm sure others, where to die by suicide would be a really, really bad thing. And for legal reasons and religious reasons, just made a blanket statement that this was a hopeless situation. And so all of these deaths were a result of the accident. But there's there's a lot of complexities if you are forced into a hopeless situation. And Denethor certainly, I think his despair is really genuine.
00:23:03
Speaker
And to the point where it even touches Gandalf and we'll talk about that in a second, but shit's shit's complicated. Yeah. Um, if you or anyone you love, you know, feels like you need to talk to somebody, um, we will include the numbers for the national suicide hotlines in our show notes this time around.
00:23:28
Speaker
Um, so you can look in the show description there. And, uh, those thoughts and feelings are a lot more common than you might think. It's not weird or bad or evil. You know, there's, there's people who you can talk to who will be compassionate and understanding.
Denethor's Regrets and Gandalf's Attempts to Save Faramir
00:23:43
Speaker
Just, you know, remember, Faramir makes it out. Hell yeah he does. So does Baragon. I was so convinced that Baragon was going to die horribly. I'm very glad he's okay. And Virgil too. They're all, all our faves are okay in these chapters.
00:23:58
Speaker
So far so good. But if we're pivoting back to talking about characters, they are bearing Farabir's mostly unconscious body out of the tomb.
00:24:13
Speaker
And then we get a little quick Gandalf POV and this moment that was really heartbreaking. Denethor followed him and stood trembling, looking with longing on the face of his son. And for a moment, while all were silent and still, watching the Lord in his throws, he wavered. The he being Gandalf. And that really shows how profound Denethor's grief is, that even Gandalf is questioning if he's doing the right thing.
00:24:44
Speaker
And I didn't really have more to say on that, but just, it was a very intense moment and Gandalf has to make a lot of really difficult, shitty decisions. You know, and Gandalf, you know, going the next line there is, we are needed. There is much that you can yet do. And PTSD was not nearly as well understood um when Tolkien was writing this,
00:25:12
Speaker
But i I don't doubt that he has known that he knew plenty of people that he fought with in the in the First World War that suffered from PTSD. it It is a major issue, obviously, in anybody that has served in a combat zone.
Denethor's Legacy and Mythological Comparisons
00:25:33
Speaker
So there is obviously judgment being cast on Denethor here, but I think if you If you step back from him, you can see that there is a lot of compassion for his scenario, his situation. I mean, the man is under the impression that he's just lost both of his sons. And as much of a dick as he is, he cares about them. And especially as much of a dick as he's been to Faramir. And maybe he is even having some regrets about that, that they parted on such horrible terms.
00:26:13
Speaker
You know, he's been through a lot. And is convinced that his city is about to fall. Yeah, he's literally, from his perspective, he's losing everything. The world's ending. And also from Gandalf's perspective, thinking back to Saruman in Isengard, this is his second conversation just in these couple of books to say nothing of his very long life before these events, where he has had a hopeless conversation with someone who has so much potential to both contribute to the greater cause and the greater good, but also just to live their own life and be happy and trying to bring them out of the darkness that they've fallen into, but knowing that it's not going to work. That also is horrible.
00:27:06
Speaker
And in another sort of bringing this back to our idea of Lord of the Rings as a greater piece, as a piece of a greater mythology, we get the sense that Denethor himself has a very long and storied history. Denethor gives me major Hrothgar vibes, much like Hrothgar in in Beowulf.
00:27:33
Speaker
clearly has a long and storied history.
Denethor's Death and Gandalf's Grief
00:27:36
Speaker
We get the beginning of Beowulf, sort of that little piece of the um saga, the Skudungs, and an understanding that Hrathgar was at one point himself a great warrior and now has been brought low by Grendel. We get the sense here that Denethor has been, you know, not just a strong warrior, but a very competent and learned administrator of the city.
00:28:04
Speaker
and of Gondar as a whole. And so to see him brought so low is really is a really tragic moment. But ultimately, they fail to convince Dethor not to go through with it. And he reveals that he has a pound here. Yeah, he has one last trick up his sleeve.
00:28:33
Speaker
and We had speculated about this previously and now it's confirmed that yes, he has a Palantir. He's looked into it. And Denethor says right before the fire is about to be lit around him that they might win this fight, but Sauron's victory is inevitable and all hope is lost and all of the darkness and tragedy. But the thing that was most interesting to me from what he said here was the way he calls out Gandalf.
00:29:04
Speaker
and says, do I not know thee, Mithrandir? Thy hope is to rule in my stead, to stand behind every throne north, south, or west. I have read thy mind and its policies. And that was extremely interesting to me.
00:29:19
Speaker
Because at first I kind of thought it went against what we previously knew about Gandalf because he said so much about not wanting the ring. But also, so far, we don't really have reason to not trust the things that the Palantir reveals or to think that they're not true.
Preparation for Upcoming Battles
00:29:41
Speaker
Though Denethor is also obviously under Sauron's influence. He could be lying. He could be misinterpreting the things that he saw.
00:29:50
Speaker
But all we really know specifically is that Gandalf doesn't want the ring. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want other power. And he certainly has his fingers in a lot of pies. But I thought that that was very interesting. Well, and, you know, a piece of why he refuses the ring is the temptation of power.
00:30:11
Speaker
But remember when we talked a little bit about both Sauron and Saruman being unable to conceive of anybody not wanting power and unable to conceive of Gandalf not trying to take their seats of power because To them, power is the only thing worth having. And so if you are seeking their defeat, you must be after their power. And so breaking that power and not seeking it for yourself is utterly inconceivable to them. And so for Danathor, staring into the Palantir and having been corrupted
00:30:59
Speaker
by Sauron, I think it makes sense that that is now also his worldview. Regardless of whether or not Gandalf is
Baragond's Moral Courage
00:31:12
Speaker
seeking to be a guide or you know some kind of puppet master behind any sort of throne,
00:31:23
Speaker
Denethor being utterly convinced of the fact, and this was sort of hinted at in earlier chapters, he's deeply suspicious of Gandalf and Gandalf's motives. Because both Sauron and Sauron read Gandalf as a rival. Yeah. As another sufficiently powerful being that could take their place.
00:31:51
Speaker
And Gandalf hasn't necessarily shown any sign of wanting that power. He you know wants people to make decisions and he'll guide people towards you know certain decisions. But is that him leading? I mean, he's too busy putting out everyone else's fucking fires to be in charge of anything.
00:32:17
Speaker
Man needs a break. Ultimately, two of the servants come at Denethor's call and Denethor grabs a torch from one of them, thrusts it into the fuel and leaps up into the pyre where he burns alive with the Palantir in hand. And anyone who tried to look into it ever after would just see old hands surrounded by flame. Gandalf in grief and horror turned his face away and closed the door. And then Denethor gave a great cry and afterwards spoke no more, nor was ever again seen by mortal men. Gandalf says, so passes Denethor, son of Icthelion.
00:33:12
Speaker
It feels very so it goes, Slaughterhouse Five vibe there, not passing judgment on the method of his death, just this is how it happened.
00:33:29
Speaker
And then after that Gandalf tries to rally the remaining men and the spell over them has kind of been broken.
Aragorn's Healing Abilities and Royal Identity
00:33:36
Speaker
And he tells them that it's not their fault for succumbing to dark influences. And also Baragond saved Faramir's life. So please don't hate him, even though he turned against you. And Baragond, responsible icon, tells Gandalf that he feels terrible for killing the door guard and that he took the guard's key and he should probably give it to Faramir.
00:33:59
Speaker
And Gandalf just tells him to hang on to the key because Faramir doesn't need it right now. And then there's some more things which we'll circle back to, but just focusing on Baragon for a second. Gandalf tells Baragon to go report to his captain and that he'll probably be fired from the guard because he did technically commit an act of treason. But he should also maybe be Faramir's personal guard until he wakes and it'll be fine.
00:34:28
Speaker
But that seems like kind of a dick move on Gandalf's part. And I don't know how that conversation with your boss would go to explain that situation and say, yes, this is what happened. I understand if you have to fire me, but Gandalf said that maybe I could be reassigned to kind of that just seems like a whole mess. i I can't imagine going to my boss. And being like, hey, man, I ah I may have really fucked up a couple of my coworkers, but in my defense, they were doing their jobs. And also I saved Faramir's life.
00:35:15
Speaker
So that's pretty big win for me. It just, I think. Well, that's, that he could be, that's the thing is Berrigan thought for himself because he ended the last sort of section of the last chapter, like telling Pippin he had to remain in his post.
00:35:33
Speaker
But when Pippin and Gandalf get back, Baragon is all that stands between Faramir and death. Now I'm also thinking about Sam at the end of Two Towers having to think for himself.
Merry and Pippin's Reunion
00:35:45
Speaker
And their positions aren't really super similar, but ultimately when people are able to break from the mold and make the decision that they know is right, that's when you get these really heroic moments. And I like that.
00:36:02
Speaker
Don't just follow orders or just follow what someone on TikTok tells you. Think for yourself. Oh, hey, it all comes back to Beowulf. Who's that fucker who went in to save him when all the other soldiers wouldn't? Wiggloff. Yeah, Wiggloff. It all comes back to Beowulf. See? It's consistent. So they head for the Houses of Healing, where apparently there's a bunch of women.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, that that was a surprise and the next chapter one of them even has a name. I don't know if any of them are named in chapter seven and I missed it. And talks? Yeah, quite a bit. Love to see it. They do sort of a brief review where they sort of review the foreshadowing of the Palantir and how it corrupted Denethor.
00:36:54
Speaker
And then they get to the houses of healing, which goes back to being from Mary's perspective. Yes. Unless you have anything else from Chapter 7. Yeah, just briefly the sort of speech that Gandalf's giving to everyone.
00:37:11
Speaker
kind of gets more into what I was wondering about earlier with, is the knowledge from the Palantir trustworthy? What's going on here? And then that is basically addressed where Gandalf says, the knowledge which he obtained was doubtless often of service to him. Yet the vision of the great might of Mordor that was shown to him fed the despair of his heart until it overthrew his mind. So yeah, he got useful knowledge. She got stuff that was maybe factually true, but also it came at a price. But yeah, after that we can move on to the houses of healing, which my Baldur's Gate brain keeps confusing with the house of hope. Which are two very different places.
Gandalf's Reflection on Hobbit Bravery
00:37:59
Speaker
Well, and my Led Zeppelin brain confuses with the houses of the holy. Amazing.
00:38:06
Speaker
But this one starts from Mary's perspective and then we'll go back to Pippin's perspective later on. The first line grabbed me. A mist was in Mary's eyes of tears and weariness when they drew near the ruined gate of Minas Tirith. He is exhausted. He's in shock. And this becomes very clear shortly because Pippin finds him.
00:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, I had written, are we going to reunite the hobbits here? And then literally two lines later, Pippin shows up. They do reunite the hobbits. They've been apart for 10 days. It feels like so much longer than that. Uh-huh. But it's only been 10 days since Pippin uncovered the Palantir and looked into it. And then he and Gandalf set out for Minas Tirith. And in that time, it's it's been a rough week and a half.
00:39:03
Speaker
Mary can't use his arm. He's only sort of making sense. um He's wandering separate from everyone. But Pippin is very patient with him and sort of slowly leads him towards the houses of healing. And ultimately, when Mary can't go any further, they run into Bergil, who is Beragon's son. Yes. And Bergil goes and fetches Gandalf.
Houses of Healing and Lost Medical Knowledge
00:39:32
Speaker
Yeah, he's running errands for the healers and Pippin asks him to give the healers a heads up that they're coming and also the Gandalf will probably want the news if he's there. And he calls Mary a Perian question mark. That word comes up a lot. It's in italics in the books. And I don't really know what it means. Are we supposed to know what it means? This is another one of those instances where Tolkien uses various names for things in different languages. It's the Sindarin word for hobbit. Oh, okay. And so they can be hobbits, they can be halflings, they can be parrying. Yeah, I gathered from context that it had something to do with hobbits in general, and that makes a lot of sense. Yes, it has a lot to do with hobbits, in fact. And Gandalf does come looking for them, like you said,
00:40:28
Speaker
and he actually picks Mary up and carries him and they have a really sweet moment. where he's basically lamenting the state that marries in and says, he should have been born in honor to this city. He has well repaid my trust. For if Elrond had not yielded to me, neither of you would have set out. And then far more grievous would the evils of this day have been. And yet here is another charge in my hands while all the time battle hangs in the balance. And that's a slightly abbreviated mode. But it's sweet because he's picking him up and he's saying he deserves so much better.
00:41:04
Speaker
But also, now here's another fucking thing that I have to deal with while the rest of the battle is going on and my attention's being divided again. And it's... it's rough. We get to the Houses of Healing and we are reminded that we have three heroes here. Faramir and Eowyn and Merry. And we're also reminded that, once again, this is a post-apocalyptic world. This is the Dark Ages.
Aragorn's Search for Athelas
00:41:33
Speaker
There are many secrets of healing and of magic and of medicine that have been forgotten. And Gondor's good at it, but they clearly still don't know everything. They have a lot of skill with leeches, apparently, which is lovely. Leechcraft is a another term for medicine. Oh, thank God, not actual leeches. Yes and no.
00:42:04
Speaker
because leeches would have been an actual ah tool for bloodletting and balancing the humors. But the healers are absolutely stumped by whatever fucking curse the Nazgul have laid on people, which Mary and Eowyn definitely have. And Faramir has a super high fever. And we meet another named woman. Yay. How do we pronounce her name? I wasn't totally sure.
00:42:35
Speaker
That's a good question. I was going with Iraeth. Iraeth, sure. It's for the listeners I-O-R-E-T-H. So however you pronounce that, we'll say Iraeth because that sounds nice. But she's there. She seems to be in charge. And she wishes there was a king there because if only there was a king, he would be a pretty great healer. And Gandalf says, funny, you mentioned that. Hee hee hee.
00:43:03
Speaker
Well, and he's like, you haven't heard any rumors. And she's like, I have been too as busy with this and that to heed all the crying and the shouting, she answered. All I hope is that those murdering devils do not come to this house and trouble the sick. She's like, I have a fucking job to do. Yeah, I'm busy. I don't have time for this. Meanwhile, outside,
Faramir's Loyalty to Aragorn
00:43:31
Speaker
We have our three captains, Aragorn, Aamir, and Imreil, and they have a little bit of a philosophical talk about succession and being a king, and Aragorn decides that he's not going to go into the city until he's invited in by the current lord of the city, so as not to cause any confusion about succession. Yeah. And Amr does make a good point. The Aragorn has already, quote, raised the banner of the kings and displayed the tokens of Elendil's house, unquote. And Aragorn says that, yeah, you know, we're just not going to make a fuss about that. Now is not the time to really drive that point home. But also, they haven't been shy about declaring who they are. Yeah. Well, and at this point, they don't know that Danathor is dead.
00:44:27
Speaker
Because Denethor at least somewhat seems to have shared some of Boromir's opinions, which is that like he was the ruler of the city. yeah you know He was not the king, but he did rule the city and he would not be challenged on that fact. So instead he remains outside while Imrehill and Aemir go into Gondor where they find Theoden's body.
00:44:55
Speaker
lying in state. And Amer is very confused because he's wondering where Eowyn is. And Imprehil is like, you did I forget to tell you that like she's currently still alive?
00:45:13
Speaker
You'd kind of think that like he would have, considering he was the one who pointed out that she was still alive, that he would have been like, hey, let's go see your uncle and then we'll go see
Eowyn's Recovery and Reunion
00:45:25
Speaker
your sister. yeah ah He waits until after they've seen the body of Theoden to be like, oh, yeah, Eowyn's alive. Yeah, just really let the despair sink in.
00:45:38
Speaker
But then Amr is thrilled and is filled with hope and joy again, so that's good. Mm-hmm. They learn about AOM being alive. They did learn that Denethor is dead.
00:45:53
Speaker
And then they find that Aragorn has been brought into the city incognito with Gandalf because the hands of a king are the hands of a healer, according to IRF. And so shall the rightful king be known. And his entrance is so good.
00:46:13
Speaker
I think it's Imrehill talking to Gandalf about the situation of all the various heads of state, saying, who shall rule the city meanwhile? Shall we not send for the Lord Aragorn? And the cloaked man, because a cloaked man had appeared suddenly, spoke and said, he has come. And they saw, as he stepped into the light of the lantern by the door, that it was Aragorn, wrapped in the gli in the gray cloak of Lorien above his mail and bearing no other token than the green stone of Galadriel. which is just an amazing entry. It's like, bitch, you rang. It's been less than a page. It's so good. I love it. It's been less than a page since he was like, I'm not coming in. And now he's like, surprise, bitch. But you thought you'd seen the last of me. But it's because he's such a good guy and he needs to help people.
Merry's Humorous Recovery
00:47:01
Speaker
And he still wants to wait until Faramir recovers to make any claims to the throne. And he thinks that Gandalf should be in charge in the meantime. But he just really wants to get down to business with healing. Which they go into the House of Healing and there are two guards there. And one is tall and one is scarce the height of a boy and immediately greets Aragorn as Strider. One of Pippin's central character traits is just a total lack of respect for or deference to authority. He's a teen. like He is a teen, and he's a hobbit, and they don't have that sort of authority in their lives. like He gave some deference to Theoden and Denethor, but like he also still ignored all of Denethor's orders.
00:48:00
Speaker
He was like, I'm going to swear myself to your service and I won't be listening to you though, because you're saying some mighty shady shit. ah He also got to see Theoden and Denthor in their context of, okay, they're obviously in charge and everyone around them is acting like they're in charge and there's sort of a certain social shared understanding here. But Strider's just some fucking guy who he's been traveling with for a couple of weeks. Like, you know, he's not going to stand on ceremony with him. And Imrehel goes, is it thus that we speak to our kings, the bro? Tell me we still know how to talk to kings.
Aragorn's Continued Healing and Departure
00:48:50
Speaker
But Aragorn is like, you know, well, here's my names in Quenya. And when I take the throne, I'm going to name my house Strider, except I'll translate it into Quenya, and so it'll be Telkontar. So it'll sound ah pretty. But ah suck that, I guess. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Or don't, because then you'll be sad about your dead friend. But we'll get there.
00:49:19
Speaker
But Aragorn looks at our three injured friends and goes, we need Atholas, which is the Middle Earth panacea. And the people in the House of Healing don't know what it is, so he tries calling it some other names. And there's some Kingsfoil is the other one, which I noted specifically because of the rhyme that Iareth said.
00:49:46
Speaker
I was sort of wondering like what the shape of the King's foil plant is. Obviously it's a fictional plant. One source on the internet I found said it was based off of comfrey, which doesn't have like hand shaped leaves or anything like that.
00:50:05
Speaker
But I was sort of thinking about like, what if the rhyme is is literally talking about a plant with leaves that look vaguely hand-like? What if it's literally talking about the hands of the king's foil? I like that. That was when when he said king's foil, it was like, oh, in the hands of the king, this that's literally what this is. yeah
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah. And Aragorn is talking to some man in the houses of healing and asking for some atlas slash king's foil. And this man.
00:50:50
Speaker
Fuck him very much. Because he's saying, oh, that's just a stupid weed that we don't care about. It has no medicinal use. That's lame. Unless, of course, you give heed to rhymes of old days, which women such as our good IRF still repeat without understanding.
00:51:09
Speaker
When the black breath it blows and death's shadow grows and all lights pass, come Atholas, come Atholas. Life to the dying in the king's hand lying. It is but a dog roll, I fear, garbled in the memory of old wives. Fuck you! I was so upset!
00:51:27
Speaker
Hey, maybe if your king who shows up to heal some unhealable people tells you that he needs something for a solution that you hadn't already considered, maybe you should take him seriously and not also shit on women while you do it. I was incensed. Fair. But then then then I guess that's the other question. Is. Is King's foil only reactive?
00:51:56
Speaker
in the hands of the king. Is it otherwise just a plant? And then that begs the question, and you know is it some sort of special magic that Aragorn possesses? Or is it just Aragorn knows what to fucking do with it? yeah Because that's knowledge that's been passed down in his family.
00:52:18
Speaker
I don't know the answer to that, but eventually they do find some dried Athalas. Specifically, Birgill finds some dried Athalas. Because apparently old people sometimes keep it on hand as a headache remedy. And Gandalf urges the guy who's talking shit about Athalas to find some. Okay, good. Old people have it. Go find an old person right now. If there's a single leaf in the city and then Birgill comes through, which is great.
00:52:47
Speaker
And they make like a tea with it. And I was wondering if you had any commentary on the making of the Appalachian Tea here. I did not, no. I would love to drink some because as we know, I'm a tea girlie, but no, I didn't have any particular insight on that. I was more focused on what Faramir says when he wakes up. Fair. um But right before he wakes up, there was the description of The scent of the tea for the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in spring is itself but a fleeting memory. I thought that was such an interesting description. you know I don't have like a specific scent that calls to mind, but I can immediately get the feeling of it.
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah. And we get some other descriptions of the scent too. There's something about a summer evening with the healthy air full of bees. It's very evocative. And I think that everybody kind of has those moments where you're just walking around somewhere, especially outside, and you suddenly get a whiff of something that just transports you back to another moment. I get that a lot in the fall, something about crispy leaves and pine needles just instantly transports me to being like 10. And, you know, it's- Scent memories are super powerful. Yeah, it's a really strong association. Or if you find, I don't know if this is something that happens to other people or if it's just me, but especially if I'm at my mom's house and I find an old blanket in the back of a closet and it still smells like it did when I was a kid and I just get a good whiff of that blanket. And then I suddenly feel like I'm seven again. It's very cool. It's very powerful.
00:54:37
Speaker
associations, especially for those really specific life smells like the smell of inside someone's house or of a particular piece of clothes that's not just something you can go out and find. It just kind of gets you by surprise. Do you want to talk about because they they sort of wave the scent under Faramir's nose and that's what brings him out of his slumber. Yes, i have I have things to say about this. So I also have a quote written down.
00:55:06
Speaker
Suddenly, Faramir stirred, and he opened his eyes and looked on Aragorn, who bent over him, and a light of knowledge and love was kindled in his eyes, and he spoke softly. My lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command? Walk no more in the shadows, but awake, said Aragorn. You are weary. Rest awhile, and take food, and be ready when I return. I will, lord, said Faramir, for who would lie idle when the king has returned?
00:55:32
Speaker
and There's so much there. I love it. But there was two things specifically that I had made bullet points about. The first one was how thrilled Faramir is to see the king versus how threatened Denethor was and how threatened Boromir was just by the idea of a king returning and usurping his family who'd been in charge for so long. And this just really shows the difference in their perspective in that Faramir is just such a good guy. He knows his role and is more than happy.
00:56:12
Speaker
to support Aragorn immediately upon awakening from this horrible, horrible state that he's in. It's so wonderful. And the love in his eyes is just so great and sweet. The second thing is far less serious.
00:56:26
Speaker
Which is that I gave blood for the first time ever today. Ryn can see my big old bandage. And I did it to be a good person, but also because I wanted to know my blood type just out of curiosity. And I almost passed out. It's a good thing to do for humanity. So you should do it. Don't let this scare you. But I'm really stoic about getting shots, getting blood drawn, getting tattoos, nothing when I got my ears pierced. It doesn't bother me. So I thought.
00:56:57
Speaker
foolishly that I would be a total champ. And I was not. The lady thaters very helpfully was asking me how I was doing. I thought it was going great. And I was like, you know, I feel kind of nauseous. My vision is kind of weird. I can't really see until I'm just like about to pass out. And then suddenly, like an angel This super hot gay nurse appears. And they were, oh, friend, they were my type. They were tall and masked and noodley with a bunch of piercings and tattoos and a badge reel with Spider-Man on it. And they were somehow goth despite wearing scrubs. They made it work. I think they had like cool boots on. And I was like,
00:57:50
Speaker
So your spouse. Listen, I have I have several types. That's one of them. But so I was like, OK, I can't pass out in front of this hot gay person. And so they just appeared next to me and put this cold cloth on my forehead. Have you ever been lovingly tended to? And just the throws of your despair.
00:58:17
Speaker
by a hot gay person just gently wiping your forehead with a cold towel and like putting ice packs on you. And it was so embarrassing because I really wanted to be stoic and cool. And I was like, oh, this is so stupid. Obviously, people have bad reactions to giving blood. It was my first time ever. It's normal. Some people faint. That's also normal.
00:58:39
Speaker
But Faramir gazing upon Aragorn's face was how I felt looking at this nurse. And they were so cool and so nice. And I was just like, yeah, this is not the time to try to try to impress somebody. But at least I didn't pass out. That was something. And now I've helped people, which is good.
00:59:04
Speaker
But yeah, I did not expect that I would have such a personal connection to this passage.
00:59:11
Speaker
I am on medications that prevent me from giving blood. So if you are able, definitely go for it and make sure to bring a hot gay person to stare at so you don't pass out.
00:59:26
Speaker
I had sort of the vibe of this felt very Jesus after the resurrection. Yeah, a little bit. That was that was my little little drawing lines with red string on a board. Yeah, it's very Jesus-y. It felt very St. Peter. But we leave Faramir's side. And as we leave Faramir's side,
00:59:57
Speaker
IRF goes, King, did you hear that? What did I say? The hands of a healer, I said. Yes. It's almost like the woman knows what she's talking about. I was fucking right.
01:00:09
Speaker
who But Aragorn comes to AON and does the, you know, 24 year old woman ah with a crush injury to her left arm and flesh eating bacteria settling in on her right.
01:00:31
Speaker
Pulse is something very bad. Dr. Pippen present the case for us. Speaking of pulse, I need to look at my Fitbit data from when I almost passed out because I'm sure my blood pressure was wildly low. And it'll be like, wow, you were so relaxed.
01:00:49
Speaker
Good job. Your heart health is great. like No, i'm I'm dying because of a lack of oxygen. Blood loss. Yes, it's rough. But, yeah, so he has, he reports he's doing his rounds with Dr. Pippin. And Aragorn is speculating that Aowin suffers from a pain that came long before her injury. And Amr basically says, what? She had didn't start acting weird until I saw her talking to you. So what's going on?
01:01:23
Speaker
And Gandalf has to break the news to Amr about misogyny. And it was really funny. Did you have the quote for that? No, I don't. But I i i was just seeing like little pieces of the misogyny she was dealing with. But also she was.
01:01:47
Speaker
serving Theoden. And so she was much closer to Wormtongue that whole time. So she was hearing all of the verbal poison that Wormtongue was pouring into Theoden's mind that whole time. While Aemir was off you know at in battle, Eowyn was gearing worm tongue denigrate Theoden and their house and make it seem like they had no chance while being at heart a warrior.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, I had written just such a good quote. My friend, said Gandalf, you, the you being Amr, had horses and deeds of arms and the free fields, but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man who she loved as a father and watch him falling into a mean, dishonored dotage, and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on.
01:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, she's depressed. She's traumatized. She's confined by being a woman. She's experienced all of these really difficult things. So yeah, it makes sense that she's been really suffering. And I love that Aragorn can perceive that.
01:03:14
Speaker
you know And that probably is ultimately what led her to pick up a sword and ride out to battle. I think she probably always felt that she could serve her family as a warrior. But perhaps there was also some need to prove that every member of her house was stronger than what Wormtongue said it was. Yeah, I like that interpretation.
01:03:51
Speaker
but Aragorn waves the Atholas under her and leaves the room as Aemir calls her back to the world of the living. Ayo and Eamon's daughter awake, for your enemy has passed away. And I love that he gives Aamir that moment with her and he steps away to sort of let them have their reconnecting, but also just thinking about their loaded gazes and flirtations. I do like to get into Aragorn's head and think, OK, so I just woke up Faramir and he looked at me with love in his eyes and all that. I don't need that from Aowyn right now. I'm not dealing with this. I'm just going to let her brother talk to her.
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah. Aemir fills in Aowyn on the death of their uncle and that he's king now. And Aowyn is concerned for Merry, who we then go to and find that he is also gravely wounded. He is weary now and grieved.
01:05:01
Speaker
and he has taken a hurt like the Lady Eowyn, daring to smite that deadly thing. But these evils can be amended so strong and gay a spirit is in him. Our gay spirits are strong. And the first thing, the first thing that Mary says on waking is, I am hungry, what is the time?
01:05:26
Speaker
So good. On brand. A hobbit's first priority is their stomach. And I would make that a rule of fantasy if we were going to see hobbits in anything else ever again. Yeah. That weren't like complete Tolkien derivatives.
01:05:41
Speaker
And I had written down more of their exchange, so I had a lot of quotes from these chapters because they were really good. ah Pippin's response to what is the time. Past supper time now, said Pippin, though I dare say I could bring you something if they will let me. They will indeed, said Gandalf, and anything else that this writer of Rohan may desire if it can be found in Minas Tirith where his name is an honor. Good, said Mary, then I would like supper first and after that a pipe. At that his face clouded. No, not a pipe. I don't think I'll smoke again.
01:06:11
Speaker
And that, again, there's a lot there because I had mentioned last time about Theoden dying and the whole herb lore of the Shire connection there. And so now we're seeing another connection that Mary doesn't want to smoke anymore because it reminds him of his dead friend, which is very sad. But I also reminds him of his friend who he never got to.
01:06:36
Speaker
who who wanted to know more about this and he never actually got to explain it. Yeah. And I also loved that Gandalf refers to him as a writer of Rohan, which he is obviously because he swore his oath and rode with them. But that was just nice to see him honoring Mary. who Yeah, you are a writer of Rohan. You can have whatever you want. Mm hmm.
01:07:05
Speaker
But Aragorn tells him smoke then in his memory. And I think here we we do see Aragorn kind of coming to the end of his rope a little bit because Mary's like, I misplaced my pack. Can you find that for me? And Aragorn's like, dude, I just healed three people and saved the city of Gondor and recruited a bunch of dead dudes and haven't eaten or slept. I cannot just go find your pack.
01:07:31
Speaker
If you're looking for weed, you can send for the herb master, but like, he was fucking useless when I talked to him, so he's gonna be fucking useless when i when he talks to you. Here's some other names for weed, just in case, cause you're gonna have to run a bunch by him for him to know what you're talking about. I i love that bit of just, cause it sounds so polite.
01:07:53
Speaker
but it's clearly Aragorn going, I just had this useless conversation with this useless fucking man, and I'm just gonna be snippy about it now. And I think that's more than fair.
01:08:06
Speaker
If you're looking for weed, you can send for the herb master. And he will tell you that he did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called Westman's weed by the vulgar and Galenus by the noble and any and other names and other tongues more learned. And after adding a few half forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none in the house and he will leave you to reflect on the history of tongues. Amazing. And Aragorn,
01:08:34
Speaker
he drags his exhausted ass out of there and leaves Mary with a little smooch and presumably it's a forehead kiss but all it says in the text is and kissing Mary he went out and Gandalf went with him so you could interpret that however you want Is it likely that it was anything other than a forehead kiss? No. Does the text allow you to interpret it however you want? Yes. Yes, it does. Yes. Well, ah first of all, I had that exact thing written down in that exact fashion, just to prove once again, the brain cell ah that connects us is still intact. Always. You know, so I was imagining a full-on, a full-on on the lip smooch
01:09:25
Speaker
But if we remember Faramir's farewell to Frodo and Sam, I think that was expressly a forehead kiss. Yes, it was. But it was said there that it was, you know, it was his custom to kiss the homies. And so I'm just fully imagining Aragorn, you know, leaving and planting one on Mary. um Which, like ah again, everyone's been through an intense situation. I do not think that response would be unwarranted if you are so happy to see your friend alive. Just saying. And Mary mary apologizes to Eric Gordon's he's leaving for you know like being a little flippant. And Eric Gordon's like, I would not have you any other way.
01:10:21
Speaker
May the Shire live forever unwithered. The Hobbits are a fundamentally unserious people, and I think that perhaps is what allows them to set aside some of the serious nature of the rest of the world around them and float above it all. But Pippin's like, I have your pack, you asshole.
01:10:50
Speaker
It's been right next to your bed this entire time. He literally calls him my dear ass. Your pack is lying by your bed. I love it. I'm so glad they're back together again. Mary says he can't smoke. And then by the end of the paragraph, he's like, get my pipe out. Let's go. Let's get some food and then we'll blaze it. But as they're as they're leaving Aragorn and Gandalf, that is they go and do shit ah the shift change notes with the next charge nurse. Very responsible.
01:11:21
Speaker
And then Aragorn goes and heals everyone else until he can't anymore. Again, very Jesus-y. And, oh, as as they're doing the shift change notes, they are remarking on like, how long Eowyn and Faramir should rest,
01:11:41
Speaker
but Merry can probably get up tomorrow. Yeah. For a bit, but like probably tomorrow. And the warden of the houses of healing is like, man, these hobbits are tough, which is not the first time that this sentiment has been expressed. But again, the, the fact that they are very, what's the word, party resilient, I think is, is how they managed to get by.
01:12:19
Speaker
or at least a piece of how they managed to get by in this in this strange world. And why Gandalf uses them so much? Is there some kind of, I don't know, a horrible tragedy in Hobbit history that is a reason they've evolved to be so strong? Because life in the Shire is pretty easy overall. It's not like they're dealing with constant danger. The Shire itself is protected.
01:12:48
Speaker
with magic. So you would think that they would just be squishy little marshmallow people who weren't particularly strong against anything, but they're basically unkillable. Is there some kind of reason that they're like that? This may be a question that either doesn't have an answer or that you can't answer, but now I'm thinking about it. I don't actually really know for sure. I do love the theory that that I saw like on Tumblr ages back, that like either their you know general hardiness allows them to eat like super deadly mushrooms. Alternatively, the fact that they've been eating super deadly mushrooms for generations has made them super hardy.
01:13:39
Speaker
But I loved, somebody had put on Tumblr ages ago, the idea of like, because hobbits are obsessed with mushrooms, Aragorn just looking back one ah one morning and the fucking hobbits are there just chowing down on death caps. Just like, hey man, you want some? Don't put that to the stew. And Aragorn's like, holy be fuck.
01:14:07
Speaker
I need to keep these little fuckers alive somehow. And they're like, dude, it's just a little bit spicy. Like, don't worry about it. But poor Aragorn, after he's done all of the healing that he can possibly do, slips out of the city to rest. And it's not totally clear to me if he just completely fucks off or just goes to take a short rest in the woods for a bit.
01:14:35
Speaker
because the closing passage for the chapter is, and in the morning the banner of Dol Amroth, a white ship like a swan upon blue water floated from the tower and men looked up and wondered if the coming of the ks if the coming of the king had been but a dream. So obviously he's taking a little break, he's taking a little rest, but he's not gone, gone.
01:15:00
Speaker
Right? No. OK. Because the whole if it had been but a dream that confused me as to how soon he would be coming back. I think it's it's they're trying to sort of maybe stick to the original plan with because Prince Imrehill is the Prince of Dolan. So.
01:15:27
Speaker
Imrehill taking command of the Citadel while Faramir recuperates until then Faramir as the Steward of Gondor and as specifically the Steward of Minas Tirith can hand over command and can hand over stewardship, I guess, sort of makes sense. Yeah, that at least is a clear logical progression that's a story that's easy to tell as opposed to the king just showed up after all this chaos and I guess he's here now. Yeah I think Aragorn is the kind of person he couldn't not go help but ultimately he recognizes that like if he had stuck around it would have caused the chaos that they were worried about in the first place. Yeah.
01:16:22
Speaker
And so, you know, he was willing to start perhaps rumors for the sake of saving lives. And also a piece of it is if Faramir had died, that would have caused so many more issues. But that just shows what a good guy he is, that he is thinking about the state of mind of the people.
01:16:46
Speaker
He's not trying to take advantage of the city in its weakest moment and swoop in and just be in charge. He wants things to go as calmly as possible, both for his own sake and for the sake of just general safety and sanity. But he's great. I love him. That was a good king. Oh, yeah. That is a good king. He's not he's not dead yet.
01:17:15
Speaker
even though he's never returning to whatever that place was in Lorian, never again as a living man, but he will live a long time. Almost 200 more years. Hell yeah. He is, as King Elessar, he rules for nearly two centuries. He's 88. eighty eight you could still get it. At the time of these these books,
01:17:43
Speaker
And yes, he absolutely can still get it, but also his girlfriend is over 2000, so, you know. An older woman. Age gap relationship. Anyway. Did you have anything else for these two chapters, Bestie? No. And like Aragorn, I think I'm starting to flag a little bit. It is late at night when we record these. um But that's okay. Well,
01:18:13
Speaker
hello everyone and welcome to Hello, Back to the beginning, motherfuckers. um Welcome to the very first episode of The Fandom Apprentice. Well, since Rin is clearly losing her mind, I will close things out and also tell you listeners that my dog is very smart. And he knows when we're wrapping up the podcast and I'm going to take him out, he can tell just because we kind of end it the same way every time, the change in our tone of voice, the words we say. So he's very faintly grumbling in his crate because he knows that as soon as I say goodbye,
01:18:48
Speaker
It's going to be over. But we hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you like what you're hearing, you can go ahead and give us a five star review. If you feel so moved, a written review, if your podcasting platform allows it, you can find us on social medias and Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.
01:19:09
Speaker
What's the other one tumblr at? F-a-n-a-p-p-p-o-d you can also email us at the fandom apprentice at gmail.com and We will be back in two weeks with the next two chapters with the last two chapters of Book five of Lord of the Rings we're moving through this fast We are Booking our way through this. Bottom. Thank you. The Phantom Apprentice is produced and edited by Rin and Sam. Our music was composed and performed by James and our art is by