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Ep 29- And This Is The Last Stage. Apparently.
24 Plays5 months ago
Here, at the end of all things, we finish our discussion of The Quest with who's the top in Frodo and Sam's relationship, the professor's overuse of the phrase "last stage of their journey," volcanology, and our emotional attachment to cookware!
Covers Book VI Chapter III: Mount Doom
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Transcript
Introduction to Romantasy and Key Characters
00:00:00
Speaker
I want to talk about fucking Zayden Ryerson. Oh, I forgot about Zayden. Oh, Lord. And also fucking Zayden Ryerson. Psychically. So, um, which many of our listeners may be familiar because it is a very popular book series with the fourth wing and iron flame books.
00:00:26
Speaker
I just dipped my toe into the realm of romantasy. So I read those two and I just finished Crave by Tracy Wolf, which is like a YA vampire romance. It's very shades of Stephenie Meyer. Not quite 50 of them because it is a YA technically ish ish.
00:00:51
Speaker
And then I read T. Kingfisher's Paladin's Grace, which was honestly the best of the bunch. And The Witch and the Vampire by Francesca Flores, which was a queer romanticy, which was lovely at a level lesbian romanticy. Also vampires and witches. Opening Fourth Wing was an experience. i Obviously I listened to the audiobook because that's how I consume almost all of my media.
Critique and Tropes of 'Fourth Wing'
00:01:21
Speaker
and experience. If you are not familiar with the book, it is about a character Violet Sorengale who is attending a war college for dragon writers. Because she's soaring on the gales of wind on her dragon.
00:01:38
Speaker
yeah oh She is the daughter of a general. she's She is disabled in some respect. It's sort of described that she's got like fragile bones. um She was, I guess, sick when she was younger or her mother was sick when she was pregnant. And so it's not expected that she's going to survive because it's like two thirds of the cadets at the school don't.
00:02:02
Speaker
Shit, that's not a good school. Which is just, no, it's ridiculous. It's so fucking stupid. It's like, we're going to spend all of this time training these people. And then if they don't get chosen by a dragon or they fail somehow, we're just gonna kill them. And it's like, honestly, you'd be much better suited to like, okay, now you're an infantry officer. Oh, so it's not like they become officers and die in war. They just straight up get killed?
00:02:28
Speaker
it's It's usually they they end up dying in the incredibly dangerous environment that is the Dragon Riders' school. So there's a lot of like political intrigue, but most people are reading this for the smut. Or not necessarily. There is... It's known for the smut. Its reputation is defined by the smut. It's known for the smut.
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah. And quite frankly, I thought it was unimaginative as all fuck.
00:02:58
Speaker
um Even though it happens in the imagination. So so one of the features of the Dragon Riders is they all have fun magical abilities.
00:03:11
Speaker
it So Zaden Ryerson, who is the love interest, because ah all romanticy protagonists, male protagonists, have a couple of requirements. They have to be dark and broody. They have to be convinced that they are the most dangerous being ever, and they have to have an X in their name. o The protagonist in Crave is Jackson with J-A-X-O-N.
00:03:35
Speaker
Oh my god. ah ah And Zayden Ryerson is the son of like a former rebel leader?
00:03:46
Speaker
who was executed and the children of the rebel leaders all have to go through this Dragonriders school because it's the school with the highest rate of deaths, basically, to prove their loyalty. o So he has a vendetta against Violet Sorengale's mother, who is the general that ordered his father's death, but he can't kill her because she bonds with a dragon. She bonds with two dragons because she's very special. Oh, so special.
00:04:14
Speaker
No one's ever done that before. She bonds with a dragon who is mated to his dragon. And so normally you only have a psychic bond with your dragon, but because the dragons are mated, they have a psychic bond, which then gives Zayden and Violet also a psychic bond.
Fantasy Scenarios: Psychic Connections and Humor
00:04:31
Speaker
Naturally.
00:04:32
Speaker
And dragons and their riders, if the if the dragon dies, the rider also dies. The dragons don't necessarily die if their rider dies, but depending on the bond, they can. And so Zayden can't hurt Violet because it might affect him. It might kill him because if they're all those of the psychic, linky nonsense.
00:04:56
Speaker
when she manifests her magic powers for the first time. She manifests her magic powers for the first time when they're fucking. Of course, because of course they they end up you know having the opposites attract bullshit and end up fucking. And she manifests her very lightning powers when they're fucking and destroys half of her room and sets things on fire and all of that shit. But then she like can't manifest her powers without sex.
00:05:21
Speaker
early on. And so at one point, she's like in class trying to manifest her powers and they're just having psychic sex, basically like psychic phone sex. Just imagine being a classmate in that room and going, hey, it's Violet acting kind of weird to you. Just don't look, don't worry about it. It's Violet, you know, whenever she casts a lightning bolt, man, she like, that's an interesting face that she makes.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, I have opinions about, you know, there's some things that are fun and exciting and we can explore them in fantasy that in real life, perhaps one shouldn't do. I think having psychic phone sex in class may be fine to explore in fantasy in real life. Please don't do that in class. Your classmates don't want that. That's not a considerate way to be. I don't care if it's the only way you can manifest your powers. That's uncomfortable. That's consent issues. Yeah, she eventually like like handles that. And... Does he have to be involved in the psychic sex? Is this something she can handle on her own? Well, you can't really psychically masturbate.
00:06:40
Speaker
he But if you can bond with two dragons, why can't you psychically masturbate? That's going to be on our new Band of Apprentice official merch. That's going to be on a t-shirt. It's going to be on a trucker hat. I'm going to get embroidering as soon as we're done with this monster recording session.
00:07:09
Speaker
Just guess what you're getting for Christmas this year. At all times, at all times I am psychically masturbating. That'd be a good bumper sticker.
Exploration of Other Romantasy Series
00:07:20
Speaker
I had a, I had somewhere to go from here. I'm pretty sure there was a bumper sticker I saw once that was like, don't tailgate me, I'll come or something like that. Let me Google that real quick. That's incredible. So eventually they get their shit together. um he
00:07:40
Speaker
Can you send this picture to me so I can put it on? hard Oh, that's what I'm doing right now. Thank you. Okay, anyway. Eventually they get their shit together. um There is some like interesting politics to it. I think the the political thriller aspects are written kind of interestingly. I was sort of like breezing through some of the sex scenes besides the psychic sex, honestly.
00:08:05
Speaker
That's like the most interesting bit. Oh, the other part about their weird psychic bond to their dragons because their dragons are a mated pair. Their dragons also fuck like on the regular naturally. And so because of the psychic bond until she learns to block it out, she basically is just sitting there getting like randomly incredibly horny because of the like emotions traveling through the psychic bond.
00:08:29
Speaker
And also, like, she first encounters Zayden when she's, like, wandering through the woods trying to, like, figure out how to block this out. And he's just, like, smoking fantasy weed. And, like, that's his way of going. Oh, my God! He's a weed-smoking boyfriend! He's a bad boy. Which is, yeah, technically against the rules. No, this is, like, he's, like, a fucking... Like, the weed-smoking girlfriends. But he's the weed-smoking boyfriend. Mm-hmm, yes.
00:08:58
Speaker
Good lord, Zayden, what the fuck are we gonna do with you? Oh my god, it's ridiculous. It's a wild time. Crave was also sort of equally wild. It was a YA, so there wasn't actually any sex scenes. There's some making out. It's at a like high school for supernatural beings.
00:09:17
Speaker
And apparently it's the start of a whole series. I don't know that I will be getting myself through the series. I'll probably read the next Iron Flame book when because Iron Flame's the sequel, Fourth Wing. I will probably read the next one when it comes out because I feel like I'm semi-invested in the political nonsense now.
Deep Dive into 'Lord of the Rings' Relationships
00:09:33
Speaker
And you get through them alarmingly fast because you listen to them super sped up. You will text me in the morning like, oh yeah, I started Fourth Wing. And then 48 hours later, I just started the sequel, the Fourth Wing.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, they are like 21 hour long audio books. Cheers. So one of the features that Zayden possesses, one of his magical abilities is he's got shadow manipulation, which basically manifests as telekinesis. But it made me think about one, that time I got drunk and yeeted a love potion at a werewolf or something like, what was the title of that one? Yes, that was exactly it. It's very, very good book. The Mead Mishaps series are excellent.
00:10:15
Speaker
The Mead and Miss Haps are phenomenal. And also Hunt on Dark Waters by Katie Robert. Because both of those series or both of those books have elements where there is either manipulation of shadows or like telekinetic manipulation of the female main character by her love interest ah during a scene in which magic is actually utilized in the scene.
00:10:40
Speaker
in a creative and innovative way because I think a lot of straight people books have It's not a problem because it's like reverse kink shaming. It's shaming them for not being kinky enough. But they will think that the scene that they have written is the edgiest possible thing ever. And then people whose brains are rotted like us will read it and go, oh, that's cute. Oh, you think that's what you think is really sort of dangerous and exciting. That's great. I love that for you. But
00:11:17
Speaker
ah compared to the rest of the literary landscape of comparable works. It's really not that much going on. I was also at a Georgia O'Keefe exhibit the other day, which was also quite fun.
00:11:32
Speaker
We're just getting real comfortable with our audience today. How's it going, everyone? Good. You made it this far. We need a lighter energy to pick up the pace in the middle here because- The energy that we're bringing today is about as dark as Zayden Ryerson's shadows.
00:12:11
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Phantom Apprentice. I'm Rin, I read Lord of the Rings as a child, and I am so fucking hyped to end the fucking quest.
00:12:26
Speaker
It's so good. It's really exciting. It's got surprises. It's got twists. It's got turns. And you are joining us midway through the same conversation we were already having because we did this all in one go. So it's been all of five minutes since we talked about this. Yeah. And who knows how long it's been for you. We'll decide how we want to release these. But This is more of the same conversation. If you haven't listened to the last episode, go back, listen to that one. We're just going to get right back into it. Huzzah. So my first impression here, I'm going to say something perhaps rather controversial. Ooh, I love controversy. Sam as a top. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, he is. Sam as a service top. Yes, I agree completely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:13:19
Speaker
He might not have been at the beginning of this journey. He might have, but he might not have. But after this whole arc of personal growth, he has found his confidence. He has hit his stride. Yes. He's not a Dom, but he is a top. No. Yes. There are different things. Yes. We confuse those terms at our own peril. Not unlike the peril that they are currently facing in Mordor. They are you know drinking a little bit of water trying to get Frodo to drink. They eat just like little bits of food. And and what does the top do if not try to get bottoms to drink water? It's all connected. Well, it was I was just reading about Sam putting the cloak under Frodo's head and covering them with the robe of Lorian and like
00:14:11
Speaker
hoping against hope that this will protect them a little bit, trying to get Frodo to drink and eat, just like trying to make sure that he's okay. And like thinking back just all through, like he's a top. Yeah, no, that's caring. Frodo, God bless him, does not have the skills to either be a Dom or a top. That requires a level of effort that only Sam is willing to put in.
00:14:35
Speaker
Mm hmm. And then as they are looking at Mount Doom and how far away it is and how high it is, Sam, I don't think realized up to this point that they weren't coming back. Yeah, he was like Frodo was resigned to it months ago. He Frodo was ready to die on this mission.
00:15:01
Speaker
But Sam always thought they were going to go home again until now. And in perfect Hobbit fashion, it's because of the food. yeah Like he counts out the food. he realizes He realizes that that is the limiting factor here. They are not going to be able to make it home. They can make it to the mountain, maybe, but they will have no more food. They will get nowhere else.
00:15:26
Speaker
Also just contextually, full disclosure, I read this chapter fully before I went and took notes. Usually I take notes like as I'm reading, but you were really excited for me to read it. And I finished the stuff that I needed to do. So I just sat on the couch and burned through it. So my notes do not carry any suspense necessarily, but the chapter has plenty of suspense. So we will try to convey that, but.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, Sam's guesstimating how far they have to go, and he thinks it's probably at least a week of travel. And that's when he's really, you know, like you said, figuring out about the supplies. But the bitter truth came to him at last. At best, their provision would take them to their goal, and when the task was done, they would come to an end. Alone, houseless, foodless, in the midst of a terrible desert, there would be no return.
00:16:20
Speaker
And we also get a couple of references to some new Hobbits as Sam is thinking about food and thinking about his life back home and other things that he'll miss and never see again. We have a reference to Rosie Cotton and her brothers. And this conspicuous sudden mention of a girl Hobbit who has literally never come up before this point. Plus vague inklings that I have.
00:16:48
Speaker
from the internet at large leads me to believe that Rosie is gonna be set up as some kind of love interest, some element of Sam's new life when he gets back to the Shire, despite literally never being on the page before this point. Sam never thinking or talking about her at all. I just, I feel what we refer to as straight relationship.
00:17:15
Speaker
brewing, not because Sam is straight, but because Tolkien is straight. i We'll see. We'll see what becomes of that. But there she will be mentioned a couple of times as suddenly this thing that Sam cares about now, and I don't buy it. I don't like it. Sam can be buy. That's fine. He and Frodo can have a non-monogamous relationship. That's also fine. What's not fine is introducing Rosie at the end of this fucking last book. Why? Who is she? Why do we care about her at all? Yeah. I mean, listen, I i have some opinions about hobbits being non-monogamous. I think all hobbits are. there was There was a Tumblr post I read a while ago that was ah putting this in better in better words than I i do.
00:18:03
Speaker
or that I could, but it was talking about hobbits are likely non-monogamous because like it's always talked about like they have big families. But the birth rate of the Shire seems to stay fairly consistent. And it doesn't seem like there's a lot of like childhood death, isn which would almost suggest that not everyone is having children.
00:18:30
Speaker
but they are all still having big families. I like it. Like you have your hearthkin and your bloodkin and, you know, your various partners that all live together. And like, I mean, you, you have, uh, Brandy, Brandy Buck Hall or, um, the, with the giant multiple generations of the Brandy bucks all living there.
00:18:57
Speaker
And then that adds a sort of extra little like level of strangeness to Bilbo. Because not only did he not have any family, any family like he took no partners at all. He's just living alone up there in Bag End. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how that would just make him extra weird. Yeah.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah, and then he adopts his other soul bachelor. He adopts this other kid who also happens to end up growing up and becoming a soul bachelor. Anyway, moving on. They travel for four days, hardly speaking. like It's obvious Frodo's an anguish. Nalembus is what like keeps them going.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah. Frodo's behavior is really weird. He on the fourth day just completely stops talking and he keeps raising his arm to brace himself against a blow that never comes. And he keeps reaching for the ring but fighting not to put it on. And there's obviously a lot of internal turmoil happening that we don't get any insight into. We just only see the way that it's manifesting.
00:20:11
Speaker
we, after about four days, they have to turn off the road to get to Mount Doom. And Sam offers to take the ring for a bit and Ferto snaps at him again and then again apologizes and says it's his burden alone and if Sam tried to take it, he'd go mad. um So Sam instead being the problem solver of the group, suggests getting rid of other weight, just anything else they have to carry. They get rid of their armor. Sam tosses his pack, including his cooking gear, which he's very sad about. The clatter of his precious pans as they fell down into the dark was like a death knell to his heart. That
00:20:49
Speaker
that part really got me. It is absolutely fucking heartbreaking because they are literally casting off everything that they don't absolutely essentially need and really just stripping themselves down to their barest selves before embarking on the last stage of the journey. And it's really symbolic and moving and just so sad that he's getting rid of his cooking pans. But they're dumping all of this stuff down into her a ravine, specifically so Gollum can't get it. Because if Sam has to give up his cooking shit, he will be damned if Gollum is going to touch it. That would be worth that would be the worst possible fate.
00:21:37
Speaker
i I kind of like get this grief over the pots. i like I had to toss a pot a while back that like some stuff had burned in and I was like weirdly sad about it. Yeah, you go on a journey with it. I definitely have a strong emotional attachment to a lot of my cooking stuff because, you know, yeah if cooking is something that's important to you, that's something that you spend a lot of time with and learning, you know, the quirks of each piece of equipment and then thinking about all of the food that you've made with it for yourself and for the people that you love, you know, it's a big deal.
00:22:09
Speaker
So they keep the cloak, ah some elf rope, some whey bread, water, sting the file of Galadriel and the the bit of earth. isn't And that is also, I'm just um ignoring that. That is also.
00:22:25
Speaker
Interesting in the context of Sam giving up any hope of returning home because the reason that Galadriel gave him that bit of earth is so that he could add it to his own garden one day. So whether it's because it's so precious just because it came from Galadriel and he wouldn't insult her by getting rid of it or because there's still that like tiny glimmer of maybe possibly they might make it home one day.
00:22:52
Speaker
A tiny box of dirt is objectively not an essential item. The vial has magic powers, and they have proven that it's useful. But the dirt is the one sentimental item that he's allowing himself to keep. I've got a box of dirt, and guess what's inside it? I don't know what that's from. Pirates of the Caribbean. um I have never seen pirates, in fact, by me. I think it's it might be the second or the third one. Davy Jones's heart is inside a jar of dirt because he can't sense it. Therefore, if it's technically on land, ah whole thing.
00:23:28
Speaker
Sam goes ahead and asks Frodo if he remembers the rabbit from the herbs and stewed rabbit chapter. And Sam was like, it's the day I saw the elephant. And Frodo gives kind of like a little pathetic woe is me speech, but like actually woe is him. So yeah, justified.
00:23:44
Speaker
He's full emo right now, it's really exhausting. I mean, he's obviously justified in being full emo. This is a situation where that is warranted, but I am just remembering the very beginning of fellowship and him just being a little broody baby. I'm like, yeah, oh my God, we get it, Frodo, you're suffering. And again, we get the fucking phrase, the last stage of their journey. And we gotta put that on merch. I mean, i don't I don't think we're ever really gonna, we're not gonna,
00:24:14
Speaker
get to merch at any point in the near future. But um if we ever do, we got to put that on merch. It's fun to dream about. Yeah. Cause this is the last stage of their journey to Auradruin Caim, which is finally kind of true, except there's another full day of travel before they get there. So it's not even really, and then there's still half the fucking book after this. So at least it is the last stage of their journey to this specific location. Well, to this major part of the quest.
00:24:50
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. But it doesn't have the emotional impact that maybe Tolkien wants it to have because he's really diluted its meaning. Yeah. So they they're taking their rest and Sam is complaining that he left it. I didn't ought to have left my blanket behind muttered Sam and lying down he tried to comfort Frodo with his arms and body.
00:25:15
Speaker
And my erotica novel, Addicted Ass, was like, oh, how did he use his body to comfort Frodo?
00:25:24
Speaker
Chastely, that's how, I guess. But Frodo, like, can barely walk at this point. And Frodo, and so that they've reached the base of the mountain. And Sam says, I said I'd carry him if it broke my back. And he carries Frodo up the fucking mountain like Madame Zaroni said.
00:25:49
Speaker
it's so beautiful and it's so heartbreaking and Sam is worried that he wouldn't even have the strength to carry Frodo let alone with the physical burden of the ring because he's carried the ring himself and he knows that it physically weighs you down, but Frodo is distressingly light, and it doesn't really cause him any strain at all. It says, whether because Frodo was so worn by his long pains, wound of knife and venomous sting and sorrow, fear and homeless wandering, or because some gift of final strength was given to him, Sam lifted Frodo with no more difficulty than if he were carrying a hobbit child's piggyback and some romp off the lawns or hayfields of the Shire.
00:26:30
Speaker
So, like, ah Frodo is a grown hobbit. He should have more substance to him, but he's so wasted away that Sam can just carry him up the fucking mountain. Then he says, come on, Mr. Frodo, dear. Sam will give you a ride. Just tell him where to go and he'll go. He's a top. Sam is a top. He's a top. Yeah, he's a top. It's unquestionable. Except in that case, he would be doing the riding, but, you know, semantics.
00:26:59
Speaker
Well, I mean, if he's so that's always that's always been an interesting bit of phrasing to me. Well, I guess it depends on the position. Right. Yes. Because if it's like doggy style, but then also you could be physically on the bottom but still be the the penetrating party. ah There's options. Yes.
00:27:19
Speaker
<unk> so they they're carrying er Sam is carrying Frodo up the mountain and eventually they get sort of above a bunch of like they get above an area that smelled super noxious and now it's like clearer air. So I did a little cursory research into volcanic gases.
00:27:39
Speaker
Okay, so one of the super common ones that you might know if you've ever been to like Yellowstone or Hot Spring or similar is s sulfur dioxide. um This is what makes things smell like rotten eggs. Other common gases on that are produced by volcanoes are carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen chloride, and hydrogen fluoride, and a few others.
00:28:03
Speaker
Right? Some of these gases smell horrific. Some of these gases have no scent at all. But a lot of these gases are denser than air. And so they tend to collect lower. And in the case of the volcano, they might roll down towards the valleys rather than stay up on the mountainside. But it is still emitting these gases. So it would still smell bad, but probably not as bad. And now that we're here, I want to talk about volcanoes because we're at a volcano.
Climax and Resolution of the Quest in 'Lord of the Rings'
00:28:33
Speaker
Yes. Mount Doom or Ora Druin is likely a stratovolcano. It's relatively short. It's only about 4,500 feet tall. Stratovolcanoes or composite volcanoes are built up of alternating lava and ash flows.
00:28:51
Speaker
and they don't flow very much. So it solidifies building up the cone of the volcano into sort of a higher mountain, ah rather than spreading out with sort slow flowing lava, or quickly flowing lava, sorry, that ends up getting out pretty far before it cools like a shield volcano.
00:29:12
Speaker
um So particularly the way that Sam describes the base and then the cone together building up over it it, it really suggests building up over several different eruptions. Some of the most catastrophic eruptions in history and some of the most well-known volcanoes are stratovolcanoes.
00:29:30
Speaker
Vesuvius in outside of Naples in Italy that destroyed Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79 AD is a stratovolcano. Krakatoa in Indonesia is a stratovolcano. That was one of the deadliest eruptions in human history. Mount St. Helens in Washington state is a stratovolcano. Mount Etna in Sicily is a stratovolcano. Mount Fuji in Japan and Mount Tambora, which I did not actually know where that is, but the explosion of Mount Tambora in the 1800s caused the year without a summer.
00:30:01
Speaker
Due to the large amount of ash that it spewed into the atmosphere i'm Cooling the planet by several degrees Celsius so that it was yeah, we talked about that a couple episodes Yeah, I I love the year without a summer. It's very fun So that's that's my volcano discussion is is just the sort of this is likely a stratovolcano. It's a likely got sort of explosive types of eruptions, but it's clearly, and while it's not dormant, because it's still producing ash and producing gases, it's likely not so catastrophically erupting as to cause it to be super dangerous to get close or causing destruction to passers-by, like who are going up to Oudun.
00:30:50
Speaker
And it's not so dangerous as to cause danger to Baradora, which is in relatively close proximity to it a couple days away. Yeah. But they find Sauron's path to the mountain, and they struggle up it. And I think it's just wonderful dramatic irony that Sauron used this path to forge the ring, and now this is how it's traveling to be destroyed. I love that so much. Full circle, like a ring.
00:31:19
Speaker
Uh, when Frodo reaches for the ring, Sam Fireman carries him so he can't touch it. Yeah. And they're still managing to slip by undetected. Yeah. And Frodo does ask Sam for help with that. He barely, they're climbing by the way, literally laid low by this task, crawling on hands and knees across rubble on this path. And Frodo just barely is able to get out the words to ask Sam to help him to move his hands away from the ring.
00:31:50
Speaker
And Sam also sees a small black shape falling off a ledge above them. And it's fucking Gollum because we can't get rid of this guy. Gollum with the igneous stone.
00:32:01
Speaker
ah ah So Gollum is there. Yay. Because he knows that they're going to destroy it. Yeah. And he and Frodo are locked in this combat basically right away.
00:32:19
Speaker
and Frodo's filled with this renewed vigor that basically only a direct attack on the ring could have possibly brought out, and it's a really sad and beautiful poetic parallel between the two of them that we get another version of again later. But to you know see Frodo and what Frodo could become in this place where the decision about the Ring State is going to be made, it's really it works really well.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's, and Sam, as Furtow and Gollum are fighting, Sam sees a vision of a figure in white fighting off this crouching shadow. Then suddenly, as before the eaves of the Emon Mule, Sam saw these two rivals with other vision. A crouching shape, scarcely more than the shadow of a living thing. A creature now wholly ruined and defeated, yet filled with a hideous lust and rage.
00:33:15
Speaker
And before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice, Be gone and trouble me no more. If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the fire of doom. And I love a prophecy.
00:33:36
Speaker
whom Especially a really clear one. So I was reading this in a couple of different ways. One is you can read Frodo as this good figure in white fighting off against the shadowy figure of Gollum, the last halfp gasp of Hobbit goodness winning. You can also read this as Frodo, the great and terrible, like Galadriel channeling the power of the ring.
00:34:02
Speaker
Or alternately, you could read this as not Frodo versus Gollum. You could read this as the good parts of Frodo and Smeagol, both trying desperately to cast off the desire for the ring represented by Gollum and Frodo snapping at Sam.
00:34:23
Speaker
That is a compelling one. Did you come up with that just in your own brain? Uh-huh. I love you. You're so smart. that's Guys, when I said this, Sam's body physically relaxed. Listen, you are known to have that effect on me. I am a simple gay person who thinks you're great. I love you too, boo. Anyway.
00:34:46
Speaker
But regardless of Frodo and Gollum's fight, Sam decides, nope, this is my time, motherfucker. I get to fight Gollum now. And he gets up to fight Gollum and tells Frodo to go on. So Frodo goes up the path. So Sam goes to fight Gollum, and Gollum ends up like on the ground begging for just a little more life. He knows that his life force is tied to the ring, so like when it goes, he's gonna go.
00:35:14
Speaker
And even now Sam can't bring himself to kill Gollum. Yeah, I wrote down the... The quote about it, it's kind of long, we can cut parts of it or we can just paraphrase, but I'll read it anyway.
00:35:26
Speaker
sim's hand wavered his mind was hot with wrath in the memory of evil it would be just to slay this treacherous murderous creature just and many times deserved and also it seemed the only safe thing to do but deep in his heart there was something that restrained him he could not strike this thing lying in the dust forlorn ruinous utterly wretched he himself though only for a little while had borne the ring And now dimly he guessed the agony of Gollum's shriveled mind and body, enslaved to that ring, unable to find peace or relief in life ever again. But Sam had no words to express what he felt. Yeah, and he he kicks Gollum down the path. But of course Gollum is trickery and turns to follow again.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah. And Sam tries to catch up with Frodo. He pulls out the vial in desperation, but even that can't pierce the darkness. And he finally is able to get to where Frodo is and sees him silhouetted against the light from the fire of the volcano. And he's just standing incredibly still as if he's been turned to stone. And it's something is wrong here immediately.
00:36:40
Speaker
who Yeah, it's we're at the heart of Sauron's power, of his craft. This is the birthplace of the ring. This is where its power is strongest. And this is where Frodo decides that he will now be the master of the ring, that he will not destroy it. And he puts it on.
00:37:00
Speaker
I fucking lost it at this point. I was horrified. I did not know that this would happen. I was not expecting it to happen. I was expecting there to be some kind of monologue and inner journey or something and Sam would come and help in some way. I did not expect him to just fully give in to the corruption. It was really, really good. It was excellently done. And Sam goes to cry out, but he's too slow. He gets knocked over in his momentarily unconscious and Sauron
00:37:38
Speaker
knows now. His armies end up faltering because the will that was driving them now is gone as Sauron drives all of his power towards Mount Doom and now all eight Nazgul left are heading there as fast as they can. And part of it, you know,
00:37:56
Speaker
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it out loud, I was going to say that part of it is just because the ring is back in the place where it was founded and Sauron has more attention there. But if that were the case, he would have noticed earlier. So really what's triggering it is Frodo putting it on and claiming it. Yes. And as we've as we've noted before, there is no way to fully claim the ring when you are not Sauron.
00:38:22
Speaker
It doesn't truly serve any other master. But Frodo attempting to claim it is what makes Sauron go, ah, no, bitch, that's mine. The ring's a snitch. The ring told on Frodo. Yes, it did. And Gollum is there, fighting with invisible Frodo. Mm-hmm.
00:38:45
Speaker
Because if there is one thing that Gollum can do, it is find the fucking ring. And he did not come this far for something as simple as invisibility to get between him and his precious. Despite the fact that he couldn't find Bilbo initially, but now he's had 70 years to realize this is the trick. The fucking Bagginses are going to turn invisible and then I'm going to have to fight them.
00:39:11
Speaker
And he bites the finger with the ring off and Frodo reappears. Do you want to talk about this? So I, in all of the long quotes that I wrote down, I did not write down a specific quote for this part, but I was ultimately correct in my capital P prediction about what would happen with Gollum in that It wasn't exactly what I predicted because he didn't have any moment of clarity where his conscience or the Smeagol personality took over, but he does do something unexpectedly noble and save the day in
00:39:51
Speaker
he So does he get pushed into the fire or does he just fall in the chaos of the fighting? I was so like swept away by the events at this point, I was not paying super close attention. He just kind of stumbled like he bit off the ring and then as he's dancing around with it, he falls back off the edge into the fire. As was prophesied just a few pages ago.
00:40:15
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yes. He touched Frodo again and was himself cast into the fire of doom. And so I couldn't say it back in book four when you made this prediction, but you were, you were correct. Uh, Gollum redeemed himself. Question mark. Uh, like he has a final moment where is he is the savior of everything. It wasn't a heroic moment, but he did it.
00:40:43
Speaker
And I'm kind of, as much as I fucking hate Gollum and I am on record on this podcasting that I hate Gollum, he got what he wanted. He got the ring and he knew, like we said, that he was going to die when the ring was destroyed. And so he didn't have to experience being separated from it again and whatever amount of peace he was able to get from having the ring back, he got it, if only for a couple of moments, and he got to kind of go out in triumph. So, you know what? Good for him.
00:41:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But the ring is destroyed. Sam grabs Frodo, and as they exit Samath Nar, the the forges at the center of Mount Doom, they briefly have a vision of, like, the greatness of Mordor, and then it all goes away immediately. It's all falling. There's an earthquake. Ora Druin's about to erupt. There's thunder and lightning. The way hey Sam loves Frodo is frightening.
00:41:55
Speaker
The very land is rebelling against the destruction of the ring because so much of Sauron's power is wrapped up in Mordor, which is wrapped up in the ring. So this was all literally happening. This was not symbolic visions. Okay. I was not totally sure because the word vision was in there. I didn't know if this was a metaphorical thing, but yeah, I wrote, this is some wall of Jericho shit. This is just everything comes tumbling down and it's really satisfying, which is also terrifying, isn it but you know, this was a good payoff.
00:42:30
Speaker
in terms of immediate consequences for the ring being destroyed. Yeah, the Nazgul caught in the fiery ruin of hail and sky, they crackled, withered, and went out. Which, cool, I was also kind of imagining them like screaming and then just fading and going higher pitched as they like you know implode on themselves and then pop like a cartoon.
00:42:49
Speaker
Or those little, I don't know if you played with these when you were a kid, there are those long balloons that you would pump up and then let them go and they would make a really high pitched noise and whistle as they like flew away, like one of those. Yeah, basically. that's That's pretty much what I was imagining. But that's it, the ring is destroyed. And more importantly than all of the evil empire crashing down, because who gives a shit about that, is that Frodo is back in his right mind
Emotional Closure and Episode Conclusion
00:43:16
Speaker
again. ah hu Did you want and to read the quote for that, or... Well, this is the end, Sam Gamgee, said a voice by his side. And there was Frodo, pale and warm, and yet himself again. And in his eyes there was peace now, neither strain of will nor madness, nor any fear. His burden was taken away. There was the dear master of his sweet days in the Shire. And then they talk about Gollum being the one who ultimately saved the day.
00:43:47
Speaker
But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the ring. The quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him, for the quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. You're at the end of all things, Sam." Yeah. Yeah, Sam just bonked her head against the mic like a cat. You went to call me out. I love you, but also, I don't tell our listeners. I mean, how do you...
00:44:16
Speaker
How do you follow that up? Like, damn, I know that we have talked before about, you know, if you don't want to read these books, that's fine. Just listen to the podcast. We'll give you a sense of what happens. But having gone on this very long journey and getting all of the context and all of the little details, the emotional impact of that line. I am glad you're here with me here at the end of all things. I'm fucking speechless. And that is the end of the ring, but it is not the end of the story. There is more to do. Oh yes, there is consequences. this There's still a big chunk of this book left. Look at all the consequences.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah, do we have anything else we want to talk about for Mordor, Frodo and Sam, Ring Destruction? It'll be interesting to see how things continue to play out. i Even though it's been a couple of days since I read this chapter, it still feels like so emotionally fresh. I don't even know how to begin to unpack it. All I can just say is that it's good.
00:45:37
Speaker
the emotional weight is there, the payoff is there, everything has escalated to just these increasingly extreme levels, levels of things. I don't have smart words because I am still just reeling from this, but it all, it all works. It's a good payoff in terms of immediate consequences.
00:46:00
Speaker
And I'm very curious to see what happens. I don't know if the next chapters are going to be more Sam and Frodo, if it's going to be a POV switch. I have exercised admirable restraint and not read ahead. So I have no idea what's coming after this. It'll be sort of interesting for the next few chapters, because we have to resolve all the storylines and bring them all back together. Deal with the immediate aftermath, because now we are all up to sort of the same exact point, roughly.
00:46:29
Speaker
right We have ah the captains with Pippin out in front of the Black Gate and the battle raging, and we ended that battle with somebody shouting that the Eagles were coming. And now we have the destruction of the Ring, which that battle was brewing a few days ago when all the orcs were marching north to Adun.
00:46:47
Speaker
And so now we have what will be the conclusion of that battle. So I am very interested to to go through the rest of this. We've got a little bit before, actually what is actually my favorite part of these books, which is like the the second to last chapter is actually one of my favorite parts of the books and it's not in the movie. Oh, spicy. Yeah, no, i have I have opinions about it. I'm excited to get to that. Yeah, no it's great.
00:47:15
Speaker
So, which means next time we will come back with ah chapter four, the field of Kormalyn and chapter five, the steward and the king. But until then, you can listen to us here on our feed. You can subscribe to our podcast and get notified of the new episodes as soon as they drop. You can listen to any of our backlogs.
00:47:42
Speaker
We have now ah almost 30 episodes on the books and we have several intermission episodes. We also have various social media. We are on Tumblr, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok, technically.
00:47:59
Speaker
As at fan up pod, you can follow us on any of those places, most active on Insta and ah Tumblr. You can always send us an email at the fandom apprentice at gmail dot.com. And you can also leave a comment if you're listening to this on Spotify or on YouTube, you can leave a comment on the episode.
00:48:18
Speaker
You can slide into our DMs on Insta, even if I sometimes avoid commenting on things because I don't feel like I have anything to say, just, I liked it. It was good. If you just want to say that, say good show, thumbs up. We'll take it. We'll take compliments. No, like honestly, it makes our day. I had a friend message me being like, Hey, I really like your podcast. I finally got around to listening, listening to it. It's really fun. It was like.
00:48:42
Speaker
Cool. That's, that's what I want to hear. This is fun. It's, it's validation. It's really nice. We like it. So, you know, you don't have to prepare any eloquent thoughts if you just want to be nice to us. We'll take it. Yeah. So you can catch us next time here next time in two weeks. We release every other Tuesday. Leave us a five star review if you like what you're hearing and we will see you next time. See you next time. Bye.
00:49:08
Speaker
The Phantom Apprentice is produced and edited by Rin and Sam. Our music was composed and performed by James, and our art is by