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Ep 32- All Hobbits Are Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others
26 Plays3 months ago
The Hobbits have returned home, but it has not escaped the ravages of time- we finally come to Ryn's favorite chapter in all of Lord of the Rings, The Scouring of the Shire, which definitely has absolutely no relevance to the current political climate, none whatsoever. Anyway, for no reason at all it's a really good time to get to know your neighbors and local communities.
Covers most of Book VI, Chapter VIII: The Scouring of the Shire- We had quite a bit to say, so we'll finish the chapter next episode!
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Transcript
Grocery Store Adventures and Queer Recognition
00:00:00
Speaker
I was just at the grocery store because it's supposed to snow tonight. Like heavily. So, you know, me and the entire population of my city were at the grocery store.
00:00:13
Speaker
But I went with I went with Abby. Because they were also going shopping. And I got, first of all, recognized by ah somebody who went to.
00:00:25
Speaker
So I was wearing my sweatshirt. he was in He was like, oh, you know, is that sweatshirt from the college? And ah I was like, yep. And he goes, it's class of 1994.
00:00:35
Speaker
nineteen ninety four And I was like, I'm class of 20. twenty Hello. And then i was over by the eggs. And this older gay man in a purple, like like a light lavender button down shirt and a wonderful tie and earrings comes up and like looks at all the eggs and just kind of gives a deep sigh.
00:01:00
Speaker
and he's like, you know, and he was instructing his partner to go like get in line. He's like, I'll get eggs and I'll come join you. and I turned to him I was like how many types of eggs does one person need because he was like looking at each type of eggs like clearly like dismissing several and he goes well and they're so expensive and nothing is all of the like little ones you can just get the 18 racks now I guess everyone's already gotten to the smaller ones and they're all so expensive was
00:01:32
Speaker
thought the price of eggs was why we're getting a new president. Oh my In like the most disdainful of voice. And then gave another deep sigh, selected some eggs, and walked off. And I was like, I want to be your friend.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's beautiful. I'll have a grocery store encounter with other queers. Yesterday, Miles and I were walking the dog on the bike path.
00:02:01
Speaker
And we were passed in the opposite direction by this family that was two lesbians. And they're probably three-year-olds who they were pushing in this folding wagon thing. And they were all wearing matching Cotopaxi jackets.
00:02:14
Speaker
And i saw them from a distance and immediately knew. And then I saw them even closer. And I was just looking at them and looking at Miles. And I was like, did they know? Did they see us? Do they know that we're also gay? And Miles was like, yes, I think they know. Although they did make a point.
00:02:28
Speaker
They were like, yeah, as I continue to experience more side effects from tea, we're eventually going to circle back around from gal pals to gay man and his platonic lesbian bestie.
00:02:45
Speaker
And I thought that was delightful. That is delightful. Little do the people know. is a queerness of which the cishet mind cannot conceive. Historians would call them close friends.
00:02:59
Speaker
besties even.
00:03:02
Speaker
oh do enjoy inspiring some amount of confusion in the general public when I'm out with people in my close circle. It's fun. No, i think I think it's kind of essential to make the non-queers understand that we are here and we are experiencing loves and relationships and paradigms beyond their imagining.
00:03:33
Speaker
That's beautiful. That's very poetic. Yeah, ah we're about to bring down the mood. ah Yeah. Should we get into it? Might as fucking well.
Introduction to 'The Fandom Apprentice' and Tolkien's Relevance
00:04:02
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of The Fandom Apprentice. My name is Rin. I am one of your hosts.
00:04:14
Speaker
I read lord of the Rings as a child, frequently, and it had a profound effect on how I experience the world, on my love of fantasy, on just how I go about my life today, and decided to share that with my dear friend, sam That's me. I'm Sam. I'm the other one.
00:04:41
Speaker
I have now, as of this recording, read all the books. Asterisk, because we haven't read the appendices yet. Those will be for a later episode. But in terms of plot of the main three or six, if you're being pedantic about it, Lord of the Rings books, I have now read them all.
00:04:57
Speaker
And...
00:05:00
Speaker
It's going to be hard. i have taken more notes for this episode than I think I have for any other episode. And I still don't know how much I'll be able to articulate about it because it destroyed me.
00:05:13
Speaker
In a good way, question mark. Yeah, let's I'm just I have 11 pages of notes for the scouring of the Shire alone.
00:05:26
Speaker
oh my God. So today, dear listener, we have reached actually the last stage of our journey.
00:05:40
Speaker
see And today we are going to be discussing chapter eight, book six, The Scouring of the Shire. And if we have time, we'll discuss the Grey Havens, but I doubt it.
00:05:53
Speaker
We'll see. We'll see. Because we, like we said, we have a lot of fucking notes. And it's the end of the book, so we don't want to rush this. So full disclosure also, not that this will likely matter or be noticeable to anyone but me, but I did read these chapters before taking
Tolkien's Authoritarian Themes and Modern Parallels
00:06:11
Speaker
notes on them. Usually I'll read and take notes as I go.
00:06:14
Speaker
And so then it's my full first impressions. But for these, it's the end of the journey. I just wanted to read them slash have them read to me. So these were written after going back and having some idea of what would happen. So there's probably a lot less in all caps than there would be otherwise, but it will still be emphatic.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah. I want to mention, because I think it's important, particularly for this chapter. As I was reading back through this chapter yesterday and today, i was struck by, unfortunately, how relevant it is.
00:06:47
Speaker
We are recording this the day before Trump's inauguration in 2025. Mm-hmm. And there is fires in California and fears of rising authoritarianism over the next several years.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I think there's going to be, there will be quite a few points in this chapter where that is relevant. And as we've said in previous episodes, we know not what horrors will be inflicted between now and when this episode comes out.
00:07:29
Speaker
As of today, TikTok is down in the States. I was just about to mention that. As much as we personally don't like TikTok, it still is important. I remember reading something about the reason that Congress wanted to ban it, as opposed to any other big Chinese platforms that are big in America.
00:07:52
Speaker
is just because of the way that it allowed people to communicate and spread anti-American sentiments, which is great. I mean, it's it's xenophobia is what it is.
00:08:04
Speaker
yeah It's just racism ah at its core. i think sort of the some of the central themes of this chapter really are about authoritarianism and the necessity of community.
00:08:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So I think that's important to keep in mind. And I thought it was important for us to bring up here at the start. This is not going to be us, you know, having a happy, calm little romp through the end of this book.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah. Unfortunately, there is you some difficult topics being discussed and we're going to connect those to real life.
00:08:45
Speaker
That said, this is my favorite chapter in the entirety of Lord of the Rings. I would love to know before we get into it, what about it makes this your favorite chapter? Because it is really different, I think, from the rest of the books. It's very unique.
00:09:01
Speaker
But I want to know why specifically you were so hype about it. Because you had been talking about this chapter for basically since we started this book. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why I connected to it so much as a kid.
00:09:15
Speaker
I think, you know, as a as a as a wee, a wee child, I was, you know, really into like, the Revolutionary War and shit. You know, i was I was a history buff. Of course. Yeah, so was I. Did you watch Liberty's Kids on PBS?
00:09:29
Speaker
Fuck yes, I did. Fucking loved It's my favorite propaganda. It was so good. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But i I sort of really enjoyed the like, revolutionary aspect of this chapter.
00:09:44
Speaker
and I liked just the focus on the hobbits. We've had such a huge ensemble cast. That even when they were sort of split off into their own separate journeys, I felt like we weren't getting as much of them as a group of friends, as a family, as we do in this chapter.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. know, I think we learn a lot about the hobbits and how much they've grown in this chapter. Yeah. Both physically in the case of Merry and Pippin and emotionally.
00:10:18
Speaker
So yeah, I i really loved this chapter as a kid. I
Impact of War on 'The Scouring of the Shire'
00:10:22
Speaker
was very, very upset the first time that I watched the movies and it wasn't there. Both this and Tom Bombadil.
00:10:30
Speaker
Which, like, I understand why it was cut, but I do think in many ways this chapter is essential to the overall story of Lord of the Rings.
00:10:43
Speaker
And sort of the overall tale that Tolkien is trying to tell. And again, thinking about applicability, we'll we'll talk about this more throughout the chapter.
00:10:56
Speaker
But I think you can't read this without thinking about Tolkien's background and military service.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And his own thoughts and impressions and experiences coming back from the war into a changing England. Mm-hmm.
00:11:19
Speaker
In a previous episode, I know that I read the introductory paragraph of The Guns of August, which is just about the month of August of 1914 at the beginning of the war.
00:11:32
Speaker
So gorgeous was the spectacle on the May morning of 1910, when nine kings rode in the funeral of Edward VII of England, that the crowd, waiting in hushed and black-clad awe, could not keep back gasps of admiration.
00:11:46
Speaker
It goes through little more. And at the end of the paragraph, you get the muffled tongue of Big Ben told nine by the clock as the courtagé left the palace. But on history's clock, it was sunset.
00:11:59
Speaker
And the sun of the old world was setting in a dying blaze of splendor, never to be seen again. And I think what the scouring of the Shire marks is very similar to what Tolkien experienced when he was coming home from the First World War.
00:12:15
Speaker
We have literally in the calendar of Middle Earth, this is the end of the Third Age, and it's the first year of the Fourth Age.
00:12:26
Speaker
It is literally the end of an era. Yeah. And for Tolkien coming home, having grown up in a sort of more pastoral England, and then going and experiencing the industrialization of war And then coming home to the industrialization of his country.
00:12:48
Speaker
I think that was a... And and the the technological leaps that were made between when he was born in the late 1800s and when he wrote these books were so massive.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think it's it's not something that we can discount or leave out of our interpretation of the of this chapter.
Return to Authoritarian Shire
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:14
Speaker
but into the content. Yes, just to sort of re-anchor us as to where we left off, because for our listeners, it has not been very long. For us, it's been a hot minute since we've recorded. So we just left off with Gandalf leaving the Hobbits at the end of Homeward Bound, and we were left wondering about the gates.
00:13:33
Speaker
There were these new mysterious gates that nobody knew what was up with, and there had been a lot of weird vibes about the state of things in the Shire. So we are opening on that sort of apprehensive,
00:13:46
Speaker
mood. Yeah, were we're kind of back to where we started. it's ah it's an It's a full circle moment because now we're just back down to the four hobbits.
00:13:58
Speaker
And so they arrive at the Brandywine after nightfall and we do see this gate in sort of our first picture. And I do like that this is also happening in the dark. it kind of adds more spookiness to it. But At either end of the bridge, there was a great spiked gate, and on the further side of the river, they could see that some new houses had been built, two storied with narrow, straight-sided windows, bare and dimly lit, all very gloomy and unshire-like.
00:14:26
Speaker
So there's this really threatening new construction that they're faced with, this barrier to entry to their home. So this is kind of the vibe that we're starting with, and it's not great.
00:14:40
Speaker
When they left the Shire, they left through like a secret entrance into the old forest. And so, and at that point, they were fleeing the Black Riders.
00:14:51
Speaker
isn And so at this point, they're coming back thinking that everything is going to be fine and peaceful. They're coming back along the main road. There's no secrecy.
00:15:02
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, boom, fucking gates. And the impression that I got with gates at either end of the bridge was like this defensive fortification. This isn't just like a toll road.
00:15:17
Speaker
This is, they can herd you onto the bridge, shut gates at either end, and then you're in a kill box. That's intentional. And also, thinking ahead to the things we learn later in the chapter, perhaps also to keep hobbits from coming out, which I think is also a valid...
00:15:36
Speaker
interpretation but they are not having any of this shit they start banging on the gates and somebody on the other side shouts at them to come back in the morning and there's some back and forth between sam and one of the guards and the guards going can't you read the notice and sam basically going no bitch it's dark how am i supposed to read your stupid ass notice in the dark and let me in and just they have And this will continue to be a theme throughout the chapter.
00:16:02
Speaker
They have stared death in the face. They are not going to let some stupid new arbitrary hobbit social norms or bureaucracy or gates get in the way of anything they want to do They're just going, this is stupid.
00:16:16
Speaker
We're not having this. Let me in the fucking gate. Well, and I also love throughout this chapter, they keep running into people that they knew before isn't and calling them the fuck out. Like here, Mary calls out Hob Hayward.
00:16:29
Speaker
who is another Bucklander, and mentions that, like, you were on the Haygate, which is a way down south in Buckland. So there are gates into the Shire, but the Haygate leads into the Old Forest.
00:16:43
Speaker
So that makes sense to have, like, a gate in the hedge. and And there have been, quote-unquote, border guards, more or less. But this is clearly unexpected.
00:16:55
Speaker
even... even With border guards in the past, sort the expectation was, oh, like you're you're a Shire Hobbit, you're traveling along. Come in, we'll get you food and a place to rest.
00:17:10
Speaker
we're making show We're making sure no dangerous animals come out of the forest and into town. you know Right, exactly. Making sure that you know we know who's left and gone into the forest so they're that if they're missing for too long, we can go find them.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Register at the ranger station before you go hiking. Poor Bob Hayward is apologetic about the whole situation, but says that they have orders from the chief not to let anyone in.
00:17:38
Speaker
And there's one of a million fucking hilarious exchanges. I had to be picky about which quotes I wrote down because they were all really good. But this one. Chief, chief, do you mean Mr. Lotho, said Frodo?
00:17:52
Speaker
I suppose so, Mr. Baggins, but we have to say just the chief nowadays. Do you indeed, said Frodo. Well, I am glad he has dropped the Baggins at any rate, but it is evidently high time that the family dealt with him and put him in his place.
00:18:06
Speaker
So good. I love the little exchanges. The other thing that this told me about Frodo was some of the ring corruption. The constant oppressive weight of the ring has worn off a little bit.
00:18:19
Speaker
isn Because we haven't seen him be like this talkative, this sassy in a while now. Oh yeah, you're right. But this scares the shit out of all the gate hobbits.
00:18:32
Speaker
sir Because the chief might hear about it and also they'll wake the big man and Anyway, the big man comes out. And it's Bill Fernie. Fuck that guy.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, Mary is like, you motherfucker, I will kill you. And Bill Fernie, chastened, unlocks the gate and then makes a ah run for it. And Bill the Pony gives him a nice farewell kick.
00:18:56
Speaker
Oh, I missed that. Yes, justice for Bill the Pony. Here's the thing about bullies like Bill Fernie is they're they're fundamentally cowards. Mm-hmm. And so in this case, like he comes out all blustering, like, you know, I'll give you a thrashing, I'll break your filthy little necks.
00:19:15
Speaker
And then he sees that they're all holding swords and armored and armed and ready to... absolutely fucking merc him.
00:19:27
Speaker
And he runs off. And bullies like Bill Fernie. They like holding power over other people and other other creatures. And some absolutely will respond with violence when challenged like this, as we see later in the chapter.
00:19:42
Speaker
But in this case, like he knew he was outmatched and the The unexpectedness of hobbits standing up to him gave them the upper hand.
00:19:56
Speaker
And ultimately that comes in later too. The the other ruffians don't expect the hobbits to stand up to them. Yeah, I want to put a pin in that theme for now, because I think there's a lot of examples of the Hobbit's relationship with power and things that we can discuss about it.
00:20:16
Speaker
So I want to save most of that discussion for the end. But there's a lot of different examples of power and resistance to it in this chapter in a specifically Hobbit context that I think is really interesting.
Personal Reflections on Authoritarianism and Rebellion
00:20:28
Speaker
Yes. Anyway, Bill Fernie gets his ass literally kicked down the road. And the Traveler's asked to be put up for the night. And Hobb reveals another rule against taking in people and sharing food, which immediately made me think of the US Constitution's Third Amendment against being forced to put up soldiers in your dwelling.
00:20:54
Speaker
And also dividing community and making it seem like everyone must be out for themselves is a fundamentally authoritarian tactic. Ticketing groups that give food to the homeless is a fundamentally authoritarian tactic.
00:21:12
Speaker
It divides communities and it prevents us from organizing as a group. Mm-hmm. I'm just going to keep peppering in little pieces of like where we see authoritarianism throughout this. Oh, absolutely. As you should. Yes, I i support this wholeheartedly.
00:21:28
Speaker
And it's also just fundamentally against hobbit nature. Everything that we have learned about hobbits and their culture not only is this forbidden, there just you is no food and there is no beer or pipe weed or anything to go around. It's being produced, but it's being taken by these gangs of ruffians.
00:21:50
Speaker
Well, gatherers and sharers, quote unquote, are coming around and This was very, like, anti-communist to me, very, like, you know, anti-USSR vibes, very Animal Farm vibes.
00:22:04
Speaker
My God, fucking Animal Farm. Which makes sense because that's sort of the context of an authoritarian state on the rise that Tolkien would have had in his sights at the time. Mm-hmm.
00:22:17
Speaker
But yeah, that was that was another little piece that I noticed, um ah particularly then when they go into the the bridge house and the list of rules is on the wall.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I didn't write down what their rule number four is, but apparently there's a rule number four that is shitty and our rule four is much better than their rule four. Oh, absolutely.
00:22:39
Speaker
There's a lot of allusion to rules and there being some specific list of rules that's just sort of general rules that are posted everywhere and more specific rules for other situations. And we don't get a complete list of what all these rules are, but they're implied.
00:22:55
Speaker
All it is is all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Yeah. That movie fucking terrified me. We watched it in the eighth grade and there's the scene where they see old major's head that's been cut off. And in the movie, there's just a literal actual pig head, which I know is just a food item and is not inherently scary on its own.
00:23:15
Speaker
But if you're an eighth grader, that's a very visceral, frightening image. I have beef with Animal Farm. Which is was not an intentional cow pun, but I'll... I never watched the movie, but we did read the book in, want to say, seventh grade.
00:23:31
Speaker
Somewhere in there. I remember, this is just now an anecdote about young teen or tween me. I think this was a little bit after Animal Farm. This was probably freshman or sophomore year of high school.
00:23:43
Speaker
But I had just noticed that communism in general was sort of this... villain in all discussions about the world and freedom and good governments and bad, stinky, evil communist governments.
00:23:57
Speaker
And I wasn't vibing with it. So I decided to investigate for myself and just read the communist manifesto on my nook color that I had gotten her because it's And I read it.
00:24:11
Speaker
And then I came back into US history the next day and went, hey, guys. So I just read the Communist Manifesto. Don't know if any of you have, but it doesn't seem that bad. And that was not a popular sentiment.
00:24:25
Speaker
But I liked being confrontational. No, i I think in eighth grade, I think it was, I gave ah presentation on the Communist Manifesto.
00:24:37
Speaker
love you so much. And why, you know, communism wasn't the villain we all thought it was. and that How no communist country, quote unquote, was actually communist.
00:24:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Fucking little tanky Rin. Yeah. I also wrote a paper about how the US was weirdly obsessed with 9-11 in a non-productive, non-compassionate to the victim's way. And we were just using other people as scapegoats. And it was a distraction from real injustices.
00:25:08
Speaker
I was as radical as it was possible to be in my tiny Western Massachusetts town, or I guess Central Massachusetts, even worse. so But I was trying and it was very fun.
00:25:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, similar vibes. I was also just a contrarian asshole back then, and so I was like, yeah, I understand that this is there's there's the villain here, and there's definitely some bad shit in in the history of the Soviet Union.
00:25:41
Speaker
I remember being reading Animal Farm and the whole like first half of it being like, yeah, they're right. Why are you booing them? They're right. Yeah. in the 10th grade for summer reading, and I promise we will get back to Hobbits, but this is just fun.
00:25:57
Speaker
I had to read, i think the book was called Thank You for Arguing. And it was about rhetorical strategies and logical fallacies and stuff and debate techniques. And that was a dangerous weapon to give little 10th grade me because I was already kind of obnoxious and pretentious and liked to be right and Like to bring justice down upon people who are wrong. And so then giving me actual tools and then calling out my fucking siblings on their straw man fallacies.
00:26:26
Speaker
Oh, I was so obnoxious, but it was really fun. But back to Hobbit Seas. So at this point, they're about 70 miles from Bag End, but word has gone ahead to the chief about their arrival. So they skip visiting Crick Hollow and just go straight on towards Bag End. And there's ominous smoke in the air and it's just continuing to get more uncomfortable.
00:26:53
Speaker
And then they reach another barrier in the road. Yes, as they approach Frogmorton, which is a fucking stellar name for a town. Oh, I love it. It reminds me of your cousin Throckmorton, the skateboarder.
00:27:06
Speaker
Of course, my cousin Throckmorton and his 900... Is it watermelons? Watermelons, usually. i think it's watermelons. But now as we're hearing more names for towns, I'm realizing how fucking funny Hobbiton is as a name for a town. Because like the other village names make sense. Mikkel Delving means large excavation and it's the biggest town in the Shire, and which makes sense when hobbits mostly lived in hobbit holes.
00:27:35
Speaker
Buckland makes sense. You know, it's like plenty of big families in our world have settled areas and been like, ah, yes, this is our land and we shall call it this last land.
00:27:47
Speaker
I think we should call it your grave. Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. Bywater is by the water. Underhill, Woodhall, Tuckborough, Deep Hollow.
00:27:58
Speaker
They all follow these sort of like place name conventions, right? hmm. But Hobbiton is like, ha, yes, I am a human from Humanville. Human City, nice to meet you. Welcome to my normal human town.
00:28:13
Speaker
I am a normal human person. But anyway, they approach Fogmorton. And they're stopped by a bunch of sheriffs. um Which I'm going to pronounce like this to distinguish it from our word sheriff, which has the same root.
00:28:29
Speaker
It's spelled exactly the same, except the E and sheriff is changed to an I and and then an extra R is added and you get sheriff. Sheriff. But it comes from the words shire-reeve. Oh, which Shire is a region and Reeve is a representative of the local lord or local authority.
00:28:48
Speaker
All right. i I should not question any silly new Tolkien words at this point. I just thought, oh, this is a dumb way to spell sheriff and it's a little bit silly. No, of course, there's an important linguistic history to it. I shouldn't have been surprised by that.
00:29:02
Speaker
I mean, it is a way to spell sheriff, more or less. But there is sort of in keeping with the sort of pseudo 17th century nature of the Shire, keeping it a little closer to the old Shire Reeve is is kind of interesting.
00:29:25
Speaker
An interesting linguistic choice. Shureffs initially only had 12 of them throughout the whole Shire. Three in each farthing.
00:29:36
Speaker
But clearly their numbers have expanded, which is, again, an authoritarian tactic of expanding the size and powers and armament of law enforcement such as such that people are afraid to defy decrees and laws for fear of punishment.
00:29:51
Speaker
the The police, and by extension, sheriffs, are just an occupying army holding a threat of violence over the heads of the people. Naturally. Laws are threats. I think Socrates said that.
00:30:05
Speaker
I'm sure Brennan Lee Mulligan would be very happy to hear you you're referring to him as Socrates. No, that's just what I say. Anytime somebody deliberately quotes someone, it's usually I'll say, I think Socrates said that, or I think Rumi said that. Those are my two misattributed quote go-tos.
00:30:22
Speaker
There is some more discussion about the changing roles of the sheriffs, but before that, there's more tone setting, more things to put a pin in about authority. The first impression is that there's a barrier in the road and behind it stood a large band of sheriffs with staves in their hands and feathers in their caps, looking both important and rather scared.
00:30:42
Speaker
And there is this discomfort that they have with this role that they've been kind of shoved into. And we see that manifesting through all of their interactions. And the sheriffs tell our party all of the various crimes that they're accused of.
00:30:58
Speaker
Gatebreaking, tearing up of rules, assaulting gatekeepers, trespassing, sleeping in shire buildings without leave, and bribing guards with food. And then we get another great comeback from Sam.
00:31:09
Speaker
I can add some more if you'd like it, said Sam. Calling your chief names, wishing to punch his pimply face, and thinking you sheriffs like look a lot of tomfools. Yeah. He is just having absolutely none of this. And the guards are trying to stay serious and saying that they're going to take them in custody.
00:31:25
Speaker
And all of our hobbits literally laugh at them. And Frodo says that they're going to Bag End. And if the sheriffs want to come, that's fine. But it's none of their business.
00:31:37
Speaker
And then one of them says, very well, Mr. Bag End, said the leader, pushing the barrier aside. But don't forget, I've arrested you. And Frodo's response to this is... I won't.
00:31:49
Speaker
Never. But I may forgive you. Stone cold Frodo. Uh-huh. And then also it's like, I want to go to the inn. I'm tired. It's bedtime.
00:32:00
Speaker
and are informed, you know, there's no inn. And also we're in prohibition here, which is, again, another authoritarian tactic of claiming that leisure activities are somehow dangerous or immoral.
00:32:11
Speaker
And anything that could promote social bonds is banned as a threat to the state. Mm-hmm. TikTok ban.
00:32:21
Speaker
And we have another instance of hobbit getting recognized. Sam spots one of the sheriffs he knows and calls him out. And this is where we learn what you said before, that sheriffs are an existing institution in the Shire that just kind of involved traveling around and generally keeping an eye on things. But now their work has changed significantly. Yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
And the sheriff, Robin, Sam asks him why he doesn't just quit if the work isn't honorable anymore, because Robin had been a sheriff previously. And he's not satisfied with Robin's answer that he's not allowed to quit, which another thing we can put a pin in for later about power and authority. But hobbits really don't like to rock the boat.
00:33:04
Speaker
And there is a lot more of this happening. complicity and accepting these orders being handed down totally arbitrarily on the part of hobbits at large, which is partially responsible for
Confronting Ruffians and Philosophical Debates
00:33:17
Speaker
a lot of the bullshit. But I do like Sam calling the other hobbits out and telling them that that answer isn't good enough because it's not.
00:33:26
Speaker
Right. ah As the as the sheriffs go from being sort of a local peacekeeping presence to cops, we have to understand that there is only one way to be a good cop, and that is to quit.
00:33:42
Speaker
isn The other thing that I noticed as they as we meet Robin Smallborough, Sam refers to him as Cock Robin. Yeah. which is just a name for a male robin.
00:33:55
Speaker
And a quick bird aside, please. American robins that many of our listeners may be used to seeing and are sort of like heralds of spring are not, in fact, robins. They're thrushes.
00:34:08
Speaker
Ooh, spicy. European robins or robin redbreasts, which Tolkien was referring to with this or would have been more familiar with, are flycatchers. They're smaller, but still very, very cute. And I'll put images of both. Oh my god, they're cute. I'm on the Wikipedia page for them right now.
00:34:25
Speaker
They're so fucking round. Oh god, I love- there's one with a mealworm in his mouth. Good for you, buddy. Yeah, I'll put images of both on our socials for this week because they're so fucking cute.
00:34:35
Speaker
Oh, they're really cute. Oh, their eggs are only two centimeters long. oh They're fucking mini. But anyway, when Sam sort of calls out Robin and says one of the lines that I really appreciated from Sam, when Robin says he's not allowed to quit, Sam's response is if I hear not allowed much oftener, I'm going to get angry.
00:35:03
Speaker
And you won't like me when I'm angry. um And Robin is like, we should all get angry together and maybe we could maybe we could make shit happen that way.
00:35:14
Speaker
Collective power, let's go. Anyway, the other thing that I love, i I love how fucking stone cold all the travelers are. isn' but next morning The next morning, they they get up to head to Bywater.
00:35:29
Speaker
And it says, they would have started earlier, only the delay so plainly annoyed the sheriff leader. And going back to sort of your your thought about authority is on the one hand, the sheriff leader is is the authority here.
00:35:45
Speaker
And on the other hand, he's arresting three members of basically what amounts to nobility in the Shire. And he's clearly not part of that social class.
00:36:00
Speaker
And so sort of he's clearly uncomfortable with exercising that power over them. Yeah, I hadn't even considered the class aspect, but you're right. Yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
I think the class aspect permeates everything in this. um I'll bring it up a couple of more. It does. And I always forget that. Please, please do keep bringing it up because I forget that we have some fancy hobbits and Sam.
00:36:25
Speaker
Who's going to make his way into the higher social class the end of all of this? But anyway, the sheriffs are supposedly escorting the prisoners, but they're marching ahead as the party rides behind chatting and singing.
00:36:38
Speaker
Except for Frodo, who's all contemplative. And this makes an old man watching laugh at the sheriffs.
00:36:46
Speaker
And two of them go to, like, rough him up or arrest him until Mary orders them to stop. Yeah. And then, again, more stone-cold responses to things.
00:36:59
Speaker
And after that, the travelers saw to it that their ponies' pace was quick enough to push the sheriffs along as fast as they could go. Basically being like... You can't be assholes if you're too tired.
00:37:10
Speaker
And they get too tired because as they continue going, the sheriffs physically can't keep up with our party because they're not used to long travel days. And so they just leave, and but not without reminding our party that they're breaking arrest.
00:37:27
Speaker
And Pippin's response is, we shall break a good many things yet and not ask you to answer. Good luck to you. Pippin's like, I'm going to cause problems and it won't be your problem.
00:37:38
Speaker
Fuck off. Love him. Love Pippin. So they arrive in Bywater and it's in a bad state. Many of the houses that were there before are gone now. a lot of them are burned down.
00:37:51
Speaker
All of the trees are gone. And there's a huge tower that's belching this black smoke that we had seen before. And Sam rides off to find his gaffer. And this is where I have to admit something to you, to our audience, which is that I had no idea what gaffer means this whole time.
00:38:11
Speaker
And I didn't Google it until... just now in preparation for this episode because I didn't know why that's what Sam calls his dad and apparently it's just slang for old man because when I think of Gaffer I think of somebody who works on like a film set yeah doing electrical stuff and so I knew that it had to have some other meaning I just never bothered to find out so now I know and maybe anyone else who also didn't know but was too afraid to admit it now they also know it just means old man there's also gammer
00:38:42
Speaker
which gets brought up later on too. Oh, I missed that one. Gaffers and gamers. They encounter a bunch of ruffians. Yes, men, not hobbits.
00:38:53
Speaker
And potentially half-orcs as well. Ooh. um The sort of the descriptions of the men suggests that they're ah that they're half-orc like.
00:39:06
Speaker
Because Mary does say that they remind him of the men from Isengard. And it seems like they might actually be from Isengard, but they weren't there when all the shit with the Ents went down. But it's it seems to be implied over the course of their conversation that they are, I guess, Isengardian, whatever you call someone from there.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, and Saruman earlier on, as as is noted here, you know, like the friend of Bill Fernies at Bree, he'd sent his agents out into the land.
00:39:39
Speaker
isn And so not all of Saruman's men were at Isengard when it fell. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:50
Speaker
And so whether all of them came from Isengard or only some of them and recruited other ne'er-do-wells on their journey, it doesn't particularly matter.
00:40:03
Speaker
The only thing that matters is that there is some connection to Saruman, and this is the first hints we're getting of that here. Yeah, there's a lot of layers to this conversation, which I did not fully get.
00:40:17
Speaker
But the main thing that we learn is that Lotho answers to someone called Sharky. And we hear about the men's prejudice against hobbits, some rumblings about swapping one boss out for another if the current one doesn't suit their plans. So Lotho is just kind of their puppet, but he doesn't really matter.
00:40:38
Speaker
Mary talking about how they remind him of the men from Isengard. And there's threats and blustering. And ah Frodo informs the men that that's cute.
00:40:48
Speaker
That's fine. But they're clearly behind the times. And Isengard has fallen. And the king's messages messengers are riding on. And fuck you. And one of the men gives them shit about it.
00:41:00
Speaker
And who's the one... I think it's Mer... Pippin. Pippin? Yeah. So Pippin steps to this guy. He cast back his cloak, flashed out his sword, and the silver and sable of Gondor gleamed on him as he rode forward.
00:41:14
Speaker
I am a messenger of the king, he said. You are speaking to the king's friend and one of the most renowned in all the lands of the West. You are a ruffian and a fool. Down on your knees in the road and ask pardon, or I will set this troll's bane in you.
00:41:27
Speaker
Again, bullies are fundamentally mary and sam drew their swords and also rode up to support pippin but frodo did not move the ruffians gave back scaring freeland peasants and bullying bewildered hobbits had been their work fearless hobbits with bright swords and grim faces were a great surprise and there was a note in the voices of these newcomers that they had not heard before it chilled them with fear again bullies are fundamentally cowards is it But they run them off and our hobbits have a quick consultation on what to do next.
00:42:01
Speaker
Pippin wants to go after Lotho and destroy him. But Frodo says, like, this this isn't really on Lotho. Like, yeah, he started it, but he let shit get out of hand.
00:42:17
Speaker
And even, you know, Lotho's authoritarian tendencies... allowed an even worse authoritarian to come in and fuck things up. And, know, it's a you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas type thing.
00:42:32
Speaker
Mm hmm. Right. And it's sort of what's happened with both the GOP and the Democrats in the last 50 years. Mm hmm. Which is, you know, you lie down with, you know, some people with sort of vaguely conservative policies and keep compromising and compromising and compromising.
00:42:54
Speaker
And the hard right keeps going, well, we we keep shifting the Overton window. What's acceptable to compromise on just keeps shifting right. Until now you're looking at literal fucking Nazis. Yeah.
00:43:10
Speaker
in the halls of power. Not that there ever haven't been since the forties. Highly, highly recommend, uh, if you have the mental fortitude for it right now, Rachel Maddow presents ultra, which is a really interesting discussion of Nazi sympathizers in the U S up through like between the fifties and the, and like the eighties or something.
00:43:35
Speaker
And we can link that in the yeah description. Oh, yeah. it was ah It was a really cool two-season podcast on sort of right-wing power and Nazi sympathers sympathizers in Congress.
00:43:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And how they remained after after World War II. Anyway, Frodo also reveals that there's never been any Hobbit-on-Hobbit killing in the Shire. Mm-hmm.
00:44:01
Speaker
is interesting. there There are no murderers. Hobbits are, at their core, a fundamentally peaceful people. Which is what makes this whole situation so much sadder.
00:44:19
Speaker
Any animal will bite or fight or defend itself if backed into a corner, if it feels threatened. you know And that includes people. yeah It's the fight, flight, or freeze response.
00:44:31
Speaker
But it's it's really sad to see these community-oriented, peaceful people be driven to violence to defend their homes.
00:44:48
Speaker
and And Mary brings this up, basically, saying that... There's a lot of these these thieves, these ruffians, and you know you won't rescue Lotho or the Shire just by being shocked and sad, my dear Frodo.
00:45:05
Speaker
One of my favorite books I read last year was Babel by R.F. Kwong. which is subtitled The Necessity of Violence. And one of the arguments it makes is that imperialism and authoritarianism are inherently violent, and so only will recognize the oppressed if they too take up arms in violence.
00:45:25
Speaker
And so Mary present, hinting the idea that like thoughts and prayers won't solve this. It's going to take action. is is sort of in line with this idea of like, is violence necessary to defeat oppression?
00:45:43
Speaker
i'm I'm fundamentally a pacifist. I like to believe that violence should never be necessary. But so often it's it's wielded as a tool of the oppressor that sometimes but like the oppressed must respond in kind as a form of defense.
Rise and Fall of Lotho's Regime
00:46:01
Speaker
And so I pose a few questions that I was sort of trying to keep in mind throughout the rest of the chapter. It was, when is violent resistance justified? What provides justification for violence?
00:46:15
Speaker
And what qualifies as resistance rather than violence in kind? o I mean, I don't necessarily have answers to these questions, but these were things I was thinking about as as I was reading the rest of this.
00:46:30
Speaker
I remember in one of my gender studies seminars in school, we were talking about the prison system. And that was my first introduction to the idea of prison abolition. And one of the things that we were talking about was the laws relationship between to violence as Socrates slash Brennan Lee Mulligan pointed out.
00:46:50
Speaker
And I remember having my mind blown by the idea that laws aren't there to prevent violence. They decide who gets to wield it. The state wants to own violence. The state wants to control violence and inflict it upon whoever is convenient at the time.
00:47:08
Speaker
And that really reframed things for me. It rewired my brain. I don't know if I could confidently describe myself as a pacifist. I have never personally inflicted physical violence on another person besides like beating up my siblings when I was younger. Sorry.
00:47:26
Speaker
But conceptually, I think that it's complicated. I used to live with someone, Miles and I had an old housemate who was a Quaker and very committed to nonviolence in all things and just non-confrontation in general to a point that was a little confusing to me. And I had had some conversations with him about it because he really walked the walk in terms of
00:47:57
Speaker
being committed to nonviolence in all ways. And even if I one time made a joke about bringing back the guillotine to go cut off Elon Musk's head or something, he was genuinely very concerned and looked at me and went,
00:48:10
Speaker
that was a joke, right? And I was like, yes, housemate name. I am not actually going to kill someone with a guillotine. But even the idea of joking about violence was completely unthinkable.
00:48:22
Speaker
And I've respected that he, I guess, to say stuck to his guns would be inappropriate since guns are a weapon.
00:48:30
Speaker
He stuck to his convictions, and I respect that, but it was really interesting to have those conversations with him. But they were very respectful conversations because he was a really respectable guy.
00:48:43
Speaker
But I don't think that I could get on the same page with him about being that hardcore about it. Yeah, i I sort of frequently have to think about my my devotion to pacifism and whether that's sort of just for me, you know, ah again, the these questions that I pose are questions that live in my brain kind of constantly.
00:49:08
Speaker
And questions that just humanity is always thinking about. you know These aren't things we can answer on a podcast. No, we're distinctly not qualified for that.
00:49:19
Speaker
We are two dykes with mics. isn You know, that this my desire not to see violence committed does not stop me from making jokes about dead CEOs to my friends.
00:49:35
Speaker
Yeah, there's a time and a place. It's all the fucking interconnected web of suffering, man. Anyway, speaking of resistance... Mary says they need to raise the Shire now to incite a rebellion before the ruffians have a chance to regroup.
00:49:55
Speaker
And God, what's the word? Inact revenge? Seek retribution? Sure. Something like that. I have retribution written down and I was looking for like the verb.
00:50:06
Speaker
Retaliate? Retaliate. Thank you. a Sam goes to Tom Cotton's, Rosie Cotton's father, because he's sort of a local leader and has a bunch of lads, quote unquote.
00:50:18
Speaker
Are they all his sons? Are they family? Like, where is the... Who are they? His personal male harem who he keeps around because he's a bisexual little freak. I don't know.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yes. Who are the lads? Mary goes out and raises the horn cry of Buckland blowing the horn of Rohan. It's the fear fire foes cry again.
00:50:44
Speaker
But this time it's not actually in fear. This time it's in defiance, which is a really interesting juxtaposition. Yeah, I liked that.
00:50:56
Speaker
I really loved this description of the horn cry. was Far over hill and field it echoed. And so compelling was that call that Sam himself almost turned and dashed back.
00:51:09
Speaker
home I love the imagery of something being so compelling that you simply can't sit by and watch. And, you know, I think the only reason that Sam didn't turn back was because he was already going to work towards the same goal just away.
00:51:35
Speaker
Anyway, you were saying. Yeah. So Sam... goes to the Cotton's Farm. And Rosie is upset with him because he took his sweet fucking time getting back.
00:51:48
Speaker
it implies that there had maybe been some conversation between the two of them before he left about when and if he expected to return. and Or that she had gotten news about...
00:51:59
Speaker
Minas Tirith being saved and had assumed he'd be coming back sooner. She is not happy. And she tells him to just go back and get Frodo because why bother looking after him all this time if he's just going to leave him now?
00:52:10
Speaker
And Sam is overwhelmed by the existential nature of this question. And so he's just faced with the choice to either give her an answer that would take a week or say nothing. So he just turns around and leaves, which is...
00:52:28
Speaker
A little bit sad because he's having a hard time expressing everything that he's been through, but it's also just a little bit funny that he's so overwhelmed. He just goes, I cannot do this right now and just dips.
00:52:41
Speaker
Just a little bit the old Sam. Well, and he he only goes in to see them to make sure that they're defended by Nibs. I don't know who Nibs is, but he's got a pitchfork. So good luck out there, Nibs.
00:52:56
Speaker
I get the feeling that Nibs is probably like the youngest male cotton. The littlest lad. Yeah, I'm just imagining like probably like a 14, 15 year old hobbit or whatever the equivalent is in hobbit years with a pitchfork.
00:53:14
Speaker
The rallying of the lads also just gives me flashbacks to elementary school and a teacher saying that she needs some strong boys to help move desks or something. me going, I want to move a desk.
00:53:26
Speaker
What the fuck is this? Inequality. oh it's it's definitely that because like, Where are the lasses? wrote it You know, are Rosie and Mrs. Cotton completely incapable of wielding a bow or a spear or what have you? Like, they have to be defended by the youngest Cotton.
00:53:44
Speaker
i mean, we don't we don't know if Nibs is older or younger than Rosie. But i sort of get the sense that because he wasn't out with, I'm assuming, all of his older brothers with axes in the road, that he's been left behind also as a last line of defense, but also because he needs defending himself.
00:54:06
Speaker
isn it Which, to my mind, positions him as a child. Yeah. Therefore, you know as a child, why is he the one entrusted with protecting his sister and mother?
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah. Sexism. Yay. On the part of our author. Yeah, I'm not going to attribute that to hobbits because we've discussed hobbit gender extensively on this podcast. home I'm going to attribute that to our author.
00:54:33
Speaker
and So after this, Pippin rides off to go gather some Tooks. Farmer Cotton lures some ruffians into a trap surrounded by archers, which is very impressive. And Merry is really taking charge and showing some really impressive military leadership in this whole thing.
00:54:50
Speaker
It's fun to see Merry taking charge because also Merry also has Took in him. If we recall, his mother was a Took. indie And we've we've established here that the Tooks are the fighters of the Hobbit world.
00:55:08
Speaker
isn't And the Thane of Tookland or Tuckborough is sort of the closest thing to a military leader that Hobbits have.
00:55:21
Speaker
And so it's it's not surprising now to see somebody of Took heritage taking over. Yeah. We sort of get a ah little rundown on what has gone on.
00:55:34
Speaker
Yeah, I wrote, Farmer Cotton catches Frodo up on how this shitstorm started. Right. Lotho took to calling himself Chief Sheriff. Which makes sense. It becomes more or less a military coup, which is like he positions himself as an authority and as that sort of quote unquote peacekeeping or law enforcement authority arrests the only other authority in the Shire, the mayor of Mickle Delving.
00:56:06
Speaker
And we've mentioned that, like, the mayor doesn't have a lot of responses and responsibilities or authority, again, for lack of a better word, but is more or less sort of the biggest official in the Shire.
00:56:17
Speaker
isn You know, he is the one who folks would look to for leadership besides, like, the Thane of Tuckborough. Yeah. But the Tooks are kind of, like, insular. They keep to themselves. And so for everyone else who was looking to Mikkel Delving, by Lotho deposing...
00:56:35
Speaker
ah Will Whitfoot, the mayor, and making the sheriffs into his direct subordinates, he can sort of wield them as a private army and position himself as a moral and legal authority in that case.
00:56:49
Speaker
And we also learn that Lotho had kind of started off with more property than was good for him. And he just kept buying up more and more of the Shire with money that no one knows how he got.
00:57:02
Speaker
And we find out how he got it, which is he is the one who had been quietly sending away pipe weed to Isengard. And then got Boulder and Boulder sending too much away out of the Shire until it wasn't, it couldn't be ignored anymore, basically.
00:57:18
Speaker
And then that's when the gangs of men sweep in, the mayor gets locked up. No one has seen Sharky, but he's clearly the one who's actually in charge.
00:57:30
Speaker
And the situation has devolved to a point where, quote, there's no longer even any bad sense in it, unquote. Whereas you are fond of saying the cruelty is the point.
00:57:42
Speaker
We have moved totally beyond anything that could possibly be justified in any way to just total authoritarianism. And this is something to take note of because this has all happened incredibly quickly.
00:57:59
Speaker
We are now in early November. And they left the previous September. So it's been just over a year for all of this to happen.
00:58:11
Speaker
And there's some other timing points, which I'll bring up in a little bit, which on the one hand is like, that seems really fast. On the other, in the last few years, we've seen how quickly culture can change or how, you know, quickly whole nations can shut down.
00:58:29
Speaker
how much violence can be enacted in a short time by state and non-state actors. The idea of going from, hey, some rich guy is fucking with things to that rich guy's a dictator and all of us live in fear in the span of a few months is not out of the question for us.
00:58:54
Speaker
And it really sort of highlights the importance of standing up to even the little things that you think are kind of innocuous. Because we let the little things go by and then the big things happen. it's It's kind of like, it's that poem of, you know, first they came for the what, da-da, and then yeah next they came for the, until there was nobody to speak for you when they come for you.
Battle of Bywater and Saruman's Manipulation
00:59:18
Speaker
but with property property rights, and import-export shit. Like, i don't know. i little tongue-tied, but... no I get you. You get the point.
00:59:31
Speaker
And there's a line earlier, too, about how the hobbits have been so comfortable for so long that they're kind of primed to be taken advantage of because they have been existing so peacefully. They're not used to this kind of conflict and they don't have the skills or recent cultural memory to know how to deal with it, which we I guess we can save this for, you know, more power reflections at the end.
00:59:59
Speaker
But I am wrestling with how culpable the hobbits at large are for not standing up to Lotho and Saruman more. How much could they reasonably have been expected to do? Do we feel like the everyday people did everything we could?
01:00:13
Speaker
Some people did stand up to Lotho and then they got fucking sent to jail. Lobelia. Lobelia. And unfortunately, to put a point in her favor, she stood up to the ruffians and she got sent to jail and no one misses her.
01:00:25
Speaker
But at least she had a fighting spirit and that counts. So all of the people who did say something were swiftly punished and separated from the rest of society.
01:00:36
Speaker
It's a complicated question that I don't have a satisfactory answer to, but I'm thinking about it. So we get caught up on the history and how things have gotten to this point. The gaffer shows up with Sam and immediately berates Frodo and says that he never should have sold Bag yeah Which is your fault, asshole.
01:00:54
Speaker
why Why did he sell his beautiful hole? That's a question that we must revisit. And then he says, and I hope my Sam's behaved himself and given satisfaction. And I was just like, yeah, yeah I'm sure he has.
01:01:08
Speaker
And then Frodo says. Frodo with his body. oh yeah. With his hands and body. yeah um And then Frodo says, perfect satisfaction, Mr. Gamgee, said Frodo, which I'm sure was accompanied by Sam turning the color of a cooked lobster and Frodo doing some kind of eyebrow waggle and or wink.
01:01:26
Speaker
But then it turns wholesome and says, indeed, if you will believe it, he's now one of the most famous people in all the lands. And they are making songs about his deeds from here to the sea and beyond the Great River. Which is nice that he's hyping up Sam because Sam deserves it. But also, come on, giving satisfaction. of course And I'm sure he got plenty of satisfaction, too. But Sam's a giver. What can we say?
01:01:47
Speaker
He's a surface top. We've established this. We have. You cannot tell me that this is not a... father-in-law partner interaction.
01:01:59
Speaker
I was just about to say that. Yes. Like, I'm sorry. Who else acts like this with their employer? No, this is this is absolutely ah father turning to his kid's partner and being, you know, it a little, I'm going to polish my gun at the kitchen table.
01:02:23
Speaker
Oh my god. and i yeah And I have another thing to add to this little exchange that's happening in my mind. Frodo and Rosie high five. Oh, absolutely. Yes.
01:02:34
Speaker
This is not high five. Perfect satisfaction. Hell yeah. Anyway. so i for Belt Eiffel Tower, Sam later. oh And that's beautiful. I think that's what Sam deserves, frankly.
01:02:48
Speaker
Anyway, the Thane of the Tooks raise the Tooks and are pursuing the ruffians that were watching Tookland. Pippin is on his way back with a hundred more Tooks.
01:02:59
Speaker
But there's 100 ruffians headed towards them, and they lay the same trap that they laid in Hobbion for the other the the other ruffians the other night. But it doesn't work quite as well, and fighting breaks out.
01:03:10
Speaker
And results in, in the end, 70 ruffians dead, a dozen captured, with 19 hobbits killed and 30 wounded. And apparently this is the Battle of Bywater.
01:03:26
Speaker
And we get, again, sort of this section that like travels with us through time as if this is a historical retelling. Now, it was remembered for generations to come. It would be the second ever and the last battle ever fought in the Shire.
01:03:41
Speaker
It would be recorded in the Red Book. And apparently because of Tom Cotton's role, the Cotton family would become quite famous and powerful later on. hmm. I'm sure being connected to one of the travelers and heroes from the great great stories didn't hurt either.
01:03:58
Speaker
I was kind of shocked to think about 19 dead hobbits and 30 wounded. That's a lot. That's a lot of fucking dead hobbits. And I did like that in that same section that's sort of taking us through time. It says, and the names of all those who took a part were made into a role and learned by heart by Shire historians.
01:04:16
Speaker
And then, like you said, talking about the Cottons, the very considerable rise in the fame and fortune of the Cottons dates from this time. But at the top of the role in all accounts stand the names of Captains Meriadoc and Peregrine, which I did like.
01:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, they're just constantly going to be in this section of history. how is just And Pippin is here again. And Merry's here again.
01:04:41
Speaker
But just think about from before when, I think it was Pippin, it might have been Merry, I don't know, fucking one of them, was saying talking about how he felt like a piece of luggage and was totally useless and out of his depth to now being these super capable military leaders. Yeah.
01:04:57
Speaker
It's great. I like that they're confident. Anyway, ah ah they ride up after lunch to Bag End. And the area around it is fucking bleak.
01:05:09
Speaker
And what finally breaks Sam is that they've cut down the party tree. Yeah. And we get to meet Ted Sandyman, who is a hobbit who has fully gone to the dark side.
01:05:22
Speaker
And he's like tossing insults and, you know, doing the the French taunter thing of your father was a hamster and your mother smelt a health of elderberries. think was the other way around. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
01:05:35
Speaker
Maybe they were an elderberry smelling hamster. You don't know. I mean, I think the implication is that the mother was like a rodent slut and the father was drunk on elderberry liquor, but...
01:05:46
Speaker
Regardless. That makes sense. Mary is like, hey, fuck you. We already dealt with all of your friends. And when Ted goes off to like blow a warning horn, Mary he goes, i can do better than that.
01:06:03
Speaker
And pulls out his horn. I was going to say it's a little dick measuring contest-y, but he uses the horn of Rohan to call out the hobbits of Hobbiton who all start yelling and cheering down the hill.
01:06:19
Speaker
I also just had a connection of neurons in my brain thinking about the Tiffany Aking books. um I forget what the... i don't know if it's the We Free Men books, whatever the official designation of that little subset of Discworld is called. But they're the ones about the Little Witch Tiffany Aking.
01:06:36
Speaker
And there's a lot of talk about... the people in her village generally being peaceful. But when things get tough, when they're, when it comes out that a man has been abusing his wife or somebody has done something wrong and there needs to be some kind of retribution, the people in their town don't have weapons.
01:06:57
Speaker
They don't have swords, but they have a lot of things that aren't weapons. They have not weapons in the form of pitchforks and knives and other things. And the more, that tensions increase the more those not weapons start to be very appealing and the more people see the potential for violence or for different applications of various parts of their everyday lives. And so I was thinking about that too, of that, you know, these hobbits aren't armed in the traditional sense, but for better or worse, they're all coming out with axes and pitchforks and torches and stuff, and they're ready to make a show of things.
01:07:36
Speaker
Well, and historically, that has always been the case of, you know, when you raise a peasant army, who does not have experience with weaponry, necessarily, you hand them a polearm, because it's similar enough to a tool that they've used for most of their life.
01:07:55
Speaker
And so many polearms are more or less derivatives of agricultural tools for that exact reason. When you know you get a peasant rebellion marching with billhooks, there's not much difference from a billhook used on a farm to a billhook used in a military sense.
01:08:20
Speaker
Besides perhaps a broader, a slightly broader blade. And in in many places in history, peasants were forbidden from owning or carrying weapons. And so to defend themselves from bandits or from overzealous lords or to rise up when they were being oppressed, you know, they either were there with their agricultural tools or Or they disguised weapons as tools.
01:08:47
Speaker
If you're walking along with a quarterstaff, you're just an old man. You would not part an old man from his walking stick. Right? But that walking stick is, if it's iron shot on the bottom, can still break somebody's skull.
01:09:02
Speaker
You might not be able to own a sword, but you can own a big fucking knife. Right? Or the the lord doesn't know what a what an agricultural tool is. If you say, yeah, that hook is definitely for pulling apples off of trees, but it works just as well for pulling a knight off a horse so you can beat him to death.
01:09:25
Speaker
That's the, yeah, always been the case. People make do with what they have access to. Sort of taking in this whole situation and all the destruction, Sam says that this is worse than Mordor because all of this destruction and violence has come into their home.
01:09:44
Speaker
And then Frodo says that this is Mordor because it's one of Sauron's works at Saruman's hands. And that was just so fucking good and poetic in that, you know, Mordor isn't a place, it's an idea, it's a philosophy, it's a regime. And I didn't really have more to add to that, but I just wanted to point out that it was a really good line.
01:10:07
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And as soon as they connect to Saruman, all of a sudden, like fucking Beetlejuice, there's Saruman.
01:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, they open the door to Bag End and Saruman is there. I cannot express how fucking shocked I was at this revelation. I was not expecting it at all.
01:10:32
Speaker
it's Oh, same when I first read it? Absolutely. I don't know if it's just because the books and movies are so long. There's so much of them. There's, you know, we've talked about my vague cultural awareness of Lord of the Rings that I had going into this.
01:10:47
Speaker
I don't feel like there is a vague cultural awareness of how these books end. There's stuff about the middle. there's ah Hobbits exist and Gandalf is the guy with the hat. and the beard and stuff and there's rings and they're bad and Gollum goes my precious you know those are things that we all generally know but I had absolutely no idea that any of this would happen but especially that Saruman would fucking show up it was it paid off the surprise was there I was not expecting it whatsoever Well, and again, I think the fact that these these scenes are not in the movies adds to that lack of cultural awareness and therefore the suspense of this chapter.
01:11:28
Speaker
Yeah, i I had no idea it was going to happen at any given moment. And... sorry Because we had seen him already on the road and and I kind of thought that was the end of him. But he's there. he is, despite being less magical, is still dramatic.
01:11:43
Speaker
And he has some fucking prime jabs for them. I just imagine this being in an extremely whiny voice that they say his voice is still powerful and can move you, but I just imagine it being a little annoying.
01:11:57
Speaker
He says, Saruman's home could be all wrecked and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no, Gandalf would look after your affairs. And there's some more stuff. Not he.
01:12:08
Speaker
When his tools have done their task, he drops them. But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking and riding around twice as far as needed. And so he's... Shitting on them for destroying his home. Shitting on Gandalf saying that they're just his tools and Gandalf doesn't care about them.
01:12:26
Speaker
And it's threatening, but it's also just kind of pathetic. Oh my god, I just forgot that I had written. Saruman is a real snarky sharky.
01:12:38
Speaker
We do. Yes, we do learn that Saruman is sharky. And we get a rare footnote here. Oh, yes, we do. Which I looked back, I was trying to remember if Tolkien had used footnotes in the past. and He has, but it's usually to direct us to particular parts of the appendices.
01:12:58
Speaker
isnt And the copy that I'm looking at is ah is a collection of all three volumes collected into one book, you know, as the professor wanted. So I'm not like 100% sure if the individual books have the same footnotes or where certain appendices appear regardless.
01:13:15
Speaker
the The footnote we get here is in defining potentially the etymological origins of Sharkey in Orcish Sharku for old man.
01:13:28
Speaker
And i I almost have to wonder whether Sharkey came first or Sharku came first. Did Tolkien sort of reverse etymology? etymologize I guess yeah sounds right this or did he ah you know go from language to nickname which Tolkien being who he is who knows but yeah we get that villain monologue that you were mentioning Mm-hmm.
01:13:55
Speaker
Which, rule one, magic makes you dramatic. Mm-hmm. And I feel like this almost deserves its own rule of fantasy.
01:14:07
Speaker
Which I believe will be rule six. Okay. To be a true villain, they must monologue. Mm. Did Sauron monologue? I don't, have we heard him talk directly? He's just kind of existed as an idea. Right. Sauron is a concept of evil. He's not a villain.
01:14:24
Speaker
True, true, true, true, true. You're so right. Villain as in antagonist role in the story. Yes. Yeah, Bill Fernie talks shit. Does talking shit count as monologuing if they talk shit for long enough?
01:14:37
Speaker
I think so. I think i I mean, maybe maybe let's see, we can we can workshop the structure of of the of the rule. But I think the connection of villain to monologue needs to be established as a universal rule of fantasy.
01:14:54
Speaker
Maybe that you can identify a villain by their monologuing. It's not that villains must monologue because villains might not. But if there is monologuing, that is an indication in the direction of villainy.
01:15:06
Speaker
Not necessarily. Well, because you sometimes get, you know, monologues on hope and wonder. We'll workshop it. But i I do think that this deserves its own space in our universal rules of fantasy.
01:15:19
Speaker
I think so, too. Isn't there something in the long list of rules for villains? Are there things in there about monologuing? Oh, absolutely. Hang on. there's There's a few different evil overlord rules.
01:15:33
Speaker
this This was published as a list in 1990. And it was ah initially positioned as like a what not to do when you capture James Bond.
01:15:46
Speaker
Because the James Bond villain is such a perfect archetypal version. Archetypal villain. But the evil overlord rules contain rules such as I will not gloat over my enemy's predicament before killing them.
01:16:00
Speaker
just When I've captured my adversary and he says, look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about? I'll say no and shoot him. On second thought, I'll shoot him and then say no.
01:16:13
Speaker
you know, things like that, sort of. i will never utter the sentence, but before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know. All of these, absolutely, you must as a villain resist the urge to monologue because that will be your downfall. Mm-hmm.
01:16:32
Speaker
He does continue to monologue, of course, and claims that there will be a curse laid upon anyone who harms him, which may or may not be true. But Frodo is not interested in finding out whether or not this is true or perpetuating the cycle of violence.
01:16:49
Speaker
But Sam draws his sword and is ready to fucking strike Saruman down. And I think this may be a good point to... pause and let us come back in part two where we'll finish this chapter and talk about what happens to Saruman and then move on to the Grey Havens.
Episode Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:17:08
Speaker
Yes. So in that case, thank you for listening. We didn't expect to have this much to say about this singular chapter. So next time you'll be able to catch the end of this chapter And all of our discussion of the final chapter of the Lord of the Rings saga, chapter nine, The Grey Havens.
01:17:33
Speaker
If you like what you're hearing, give us a follow on whatever podcasting platform you're listening on. If you have not already, leave us a five-star review. If the platform you're listening on allows that sort of thing, ah like, a comment, feel free to follow us on social media.
01:17:48
Speaker
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01:18:02
Speaker
And so whatever of those exists by the time this comes out and isn't completely overrun by Nazis, you can find us there. You also, yeah, you can also always ah send us an email at thefandomapprentice at gmail.com.
01:18:19
Speaker
And until next time, be you wary of authoritarianism. You are not immune to propaganda. And we'll talk more about that next time because I have end of chapter commentary, but it is end of chapter commentary. All right. See y'all next time.
01:18:36
Speaker
Bye. The Phantom Apprentice is produced and edited by Rin and Sam. Our music was composed and performed by James, and our art is by Cassie Turgeon. This podcast is created for non-commercial entertainment purposes.
01:18:55
Speaker
The content discussed is the property of the Tolkien Estate and is used here under fair use.