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Ep 27- What That Mouth (of Sauron) Do?
28 Plays6 months ago
Happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners and happy last week of November to everyone else! As you prepare your turkeys and gear up for... *ahem* interesting family conversations, know that you have us to keep you company! Topics of discussion include: the Year Without A Summer, mermaid ass, diplomacy, and Sauron's goose getting cooked! Or turkey, depending on the season.
Covers Book V Chapter IX: The Last Debate and Book V Chapter X: The Black Gate Opens
We are now on Bluesky! Same handle as everywhere else @fanapppod
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Transcript
Acquiring the Mermaid Lamp
00:00:00
Speaker
I want to talk about something you're probably so sick of hearing about, but it is the two new members of my household that I have recently welcomed. god after a long emotional journey supported by my community as I just detailed every single development. It's the mermaid lamp. We'll have to put a picture of the mermaid lamp on our socials just because I'm so proud of them. Specifically the detailed ass. They're so beautiful. Yeah, so just to back it up a little bit, I ah do a lot of arts and crafts as we know.
00:00:38
Speaker
And the lighting in my apartment is weird, and I don't like to have the big light on. But if I want to do a little arts and crafts on my couch, there's not any light there that's the darkest part of my living room for some reason. So I wanted to get a floor lamp that I could position over to the couch and i do my little things. And so I was just looking for floor lamps on Facebook Marketplace like a normal person, and there were lots of normal lamps.
00:01:04
Speaker
but then there was mermaid lamp. It is specifically the, I think, entwined mermaid sculpture by Design Toscano, if anyone wants to Google it, but also you can just look on our socials and see it there. It's over six feet tall. It is two mermaids, tit to tit, in a sensuous embrace, holding up this light fixture.
00:01:31
Speaker
and It's fucking spectacular. It's campy. It's tacky. It's gaudy. It is also really expensive. It retails for $1,500. But it was significantly less than that on Facebook Marketplace. And I saw it and thought that it was ridiculous, but also kind of wanted it. And then it was just two weeks of back and forth with this guy because someone else was going to buy it. And then that fell through. But I was just so... I just knew in my soul that it was my destiny to own this lamp. So I bothered this poor man so much every single time.
00:02:11
Speaker
anything changed or I had a new question, I would just be on him. And eventually I got my fucking lamp. And even if I hadn't gotten it, just the amount of joy that I got from looking at pictures of it and showing it to everyone I know. And now it's in my home and I get to see the mermaids every day. And yes, they do have incredibly defined asses, distinct butt cheeks on each one. Which is wild because it's below the point of scale.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yes. Of like scale origin. So like it's, it's fully within fishtail.
Decorating and Naming the Mermaid Lamp
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah. But there, there is a butt in there and we need to know about it. h And it's, it's just amazing. It's my favorite thing that I own. I can't wait for someone else's grandkids to inherit it one day. Cause as we know, my bloodline ends with me, but some, someone in the future is going to take this. Cause it's not getting donated to fucking Goodwill on my watch. You've got siblings.
00:03:10
Speaker
They can have kids. Yeah. Siblings, yeah um please have children at some point. I was telling one of my brothers, listener of the show, hello, that I just, it's adding so much to my gay aunt vibes, my gay aunt cred, because imagine being like nine and going to your gay aunt's house and your older cousin being like, I dare you to go touch that mermaid's boob.
00:03:40
Speaker
like you're gonna do it. That'll be a formative memory for someone in the future. And in the meantime, I have them in my home. They are identical. They're obviously made from the same sculpt, but they do not have names yet. So I am very open to names from our community. I will be dressing them up for various seasonal festivities. It's going to be great. It's the best thing in my life right now is this stupid lamp. Miles showed it to one of their coworkers and she had the gall to say it was ugly. And now we can never speak to her again. Okay. Okay. No.
00:04:20
Speaker
when When we posted this in book club, one of our our lovely book club members, um who I believe was also a listener of the show, hello if you're if you're here, was saying that then they were looking at other lamps on Facebook Marketplace and they found one that was like a crab lamp.
00:04:37
Speaker
that That was me, my love. That was you? Yeah, because now the Facebook algorithm knows that I'm interested in whimsical stained glass sculptural lamps. And so I found one for the low, low price of $600, because I think that one was actually bronze instead of resin, like my lamp. And it's a crab.
00:04:59
Speaker
And the crab is lifting its claws, presenting this Tiffany style lampshade to you. And then there was also a lamp of some fucking race car driver. But yeah, those were both me. Yes, they were. I'm now looking at the chat. I it i was just remembering the responses of our book club members and thinking that one of them perhaps had originated the crab lamp. Sadly. No, that is a lamp.
Introduction to Fandom Apprentice Podcast
00:05:28
Speaker
that one you can describe as a work of art and also ugly. This is true. But that also, it adds to the gay aunt vibes though, eccentric childless aunt, going, yeah, I have this thing, isn't it hideous? I love it.
00:05:44
Speaker
Both the crab lamp and the mermaid lamp would also really fit in like your future home in coastal Maine. That's like sort of nautical themed, but not really. Yeah. Yeah, my home is not nautical in the least. I do not have a nautical sense of decor, but I do have an eclectic sense of decor. And I have been saying for ages that I needed some gay artwork.
00:06:12
Speaker
and, you know, perhaps some edgy, more naked people gay artwork because I'm an adult and that's allowed. And I think this is really getting that off to a strong start as I see you on the screen looking up off to the side where I know for a fact you have gay art posted on your wall. Just in case anyone who makes it into your bedroom was not already very clear what you were about, you know, got a little bit of You got some visual aids.
Queer Perspective on Lord of the Rings
00:06:43
Speaker
Listen. sir
00:07:03
Speaker
And welcome back to this week's episode of The Fandom Apprentice.
00:07:11
Speaker
My name is Rin, I am the host that read Lord of the Rings as a kid. My name is Sam, I'm the one that didn't. The purpose of the podcast, just to review, but it's been a little while since we've like gone over this. But here in episode 27 of our main content,
00:07:36
Speaker
I read Lord of the Rings as a kid. I was enamored with it. It became a huge piece of my childhood, of my love for fantasy, of how I run D and&D games, of playing D and&D, of all media that I consumed thereafter. And Sam didn't. So as adults now, we're re-walking through this series that meant a lot to me as a child.
00:08:06
Speaker
and looking at it through our new gay little eyes. Yeah, and now I've said this on the pod before, but having experienced the story with a queer lens first, I can't imagine doing it any other
Reflections on Finishing the Book Series
00:08:24
Speaker
way. There's so much that is just so obviously queer to me in these books and in these chapters, we've got some good gay stuff. So I'm excited to get into it. Did you have anything else that you wanted to cover before we get started? and No, we're now we're now five sixths of the way through this series. Which I mean, that's something. Yeah, I'm a little sad. I don't want it to be over. But I know we have movies, we have other content, but it's wild to be this far along. So we are now
00:09:03
Speaker
staring down the barrel of 2025. The ceaseless forward march of time terrifies me constantly. That's fair. You know what also terrifies me? What, Bestie? The mouth of Sauron.
00:09:23
Speaker
So true. But we have some things to cover before we get there. Yeah, like anything that mouth might touch. Jesus Christ.
00:09:39
Speaker
So chapter nine, the last debate. Anyway, chapter nine. Let's get serious. This is a serious
Gimli and Legolas: A Dynamic Duo
00:09:51
Speaker
scholarly show. No, it's fucking not. Anyway, is it Samantha? Is it? No, it's not. It better not be.
00:10:03
Speaker
I didn't sign up for that. So it's the morning after the battle. We are back to Legolas and Gimli POV, which is super fun. They are really eager to see Mary and Pippin.
00:10:17
Speaker
And we immediately open with them walking through Minas Tirith and I had this little quote, together the elf and the dwarf entered Minas Tirith and folk that saw them pass marveled to see such companions for Legolas was fair a face beyond the measure of men. And he sang an elven song at in a clear voice as he walked in the morning, but Gimli stalked beside him, stroking his beard and staring about him. So they're this cute little duo, very not quite golden retriever, black cat dynamic, but opposite vibes. And everyone is remarking on it. Gay little moments of using the same pronoun to describe your characters. I read this well, very tired. And so I read that line about Gimli stroking, Gimli stalked beside him stroking his beard.
00:11:15
Speaker
which makes it sound like he's he's just reaching up and stroking Legolas's beard as they walk.
Aragorn's Journey with the Army of the Dead
00:11:22
Speaker
Legolas doesn't have a beard. Oh, besides Gimli. That's well, yes. And staring about him, which again, I read is staring up at him. Just the focus is on Legolas and Legolas is unearthly beauty.
00:11:40
Speaker
And they're mean gays. Gimli is critiquing the stonework. Legolas is saying that the city needs more gardens and they need trees that won't die because all their trees are fucking dead. And they're just talking shit about this great city that has just undergone this huge, dramatic catastrophe. And I love it. They they will say their opinions.
00:12:04
Speaker
They are headed for the houses of healing, and Gimli's happy to learn that Mary and Pippin are alive. Because he basically says if they weren't alive, this kind of would have all been a waste of time. Along the way, they meet Imrehill. Yes. these are These are two very Imrehill-heavy chapters. And so...
00:12:27
Speaker
Tolkien has a little time here to have a conversation between the trio. So we make sure that we know that Imrehel is important and great and powerful. Yes, I was not expecting him to be this big of a deal, but I really like him. He seems like a great guy. At the end of this conversation, Legolas identifies Imrehel as like a great man. Kind of in part because he has elvish blood.
00:12:54
Speaker
Yes, right? And says that Gondor must once have been full of great men like him. And Gimli says the older great humans were the ones that made
Genealogy of Elrond and Aragorn
00:13:04
Speaker
great things, but something went wrong and now they don't make good things. And humans kind of always disappoint in the end. To which Legolas kind of asserts that like humans might disappoint at times, but that greatness can still sort of rise again.
00:13:22
Speaker
Which I guess it leads to sort of an interesting question is, you know, can non-great men create great things? Is greatness, which in this case is sort of implied to be some sort of racial superiority, a prerequisite for creativity? Hmm.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I had not thought about it that way when I was reading it because I was focusing on sort of the end of that conversation when they're talking about how the deeds of men will outlast them both. And so what I was getting from that was the deeds of men will outlast Legolas and Gimli specifically, but also their cultures and their impact, despite the fact that it takes so little to kill men or set them back from their goals because they're saying, you know, if there's a frost, if there's a bad harvest, if there's an earthquake, then all these men fucking die and then they can't do any things. They're not worth shit. And despite that, men are still able to make these lasting impacts on the world. But yeah, I don't know if they mean in the sense that it's just great men, TM, or if this is just a broader human quality.
00:14:42
Speaker
Well, and one of the things that I was taking away from this is that there is a shared fault to elves and dwarves alike. Perhaps in part because they're so long lived that they're unwilling or unable to adapt to change. And Tolkien shows it like a fear of change across all his characters. The men don't want to accept change.
00:15:11
Speaker
but they're a lot more likely to survive and adapt to it. Whereas the elves instead will go into the West and fade. Yeah, the elves see basically oblivion as their only option.
Elves, Dwarves, and Human Achievements
00:15:27
Speaker
Right. And the dwarves will hold a grudge for hundreds of years to then go back and fight a fucking dragon with 13 of them.
00:15:39
Speaker
ah to to reclaim what was once lost. Yeah, and I feel like even though we have so many human characters, it's not really a book about humans. It's not about humanity explicitly.
00:15:56
Speaker
So we don't get a ton of, I feel like, human perspective on the existential implications of all of this besides just we will lose wars and there will be, you know, immediate consequences to all of the conflict. But I don't think there's really been any humanity will end and all of the men will die in quite the same way.
00:16:24
Speaker
Right, but we are gearing up to, and you can sort of see it here, we are gearing up to an era in which there are no more elves and there are no more dwarves. We are gearing up to some kind of ending here. The sort of apocalypse-like nature of the destruction here, the the almost post-apocalyptic description of how great Gondor used to be, the descriptions we've gotten earlier of the elves going to the sea, and then Legolas shortly here describing
00:17:13
Speaker
how he felt seeing gulls and the sea and now no longer feeling comfortable on land and wanting to go to the sea and having that sea longing that lives within all elves. Regardless of the outcomes of all of this, humans are going to survive it. The elves and the dwarves? Not so much. Yeah, and this is...
Reunion in the Houses of Healing
00:17:42
Speaker
dovetailing nicely going along with the plot because as these conversations are happening, they reunite with the hobbits. It's lovely. They are all hanging out in the gardens. They're discussing this feeling of an unsettlement isn't a word, but discontentment now that Legolas feels now that he's had this sea longing awakened in him. And Gimli is really upset by this.
00:18:08
Speaker
He says, say not so, said Gimli, there are countless things still to see in Middle Earth and great works to do. But if all the fair folk take to the Havens, it will be a duller world for those who are doomed to stay. And that speaks to, you know, broadly this whole issue with we don't want all the elves to leave. But also, they've just survived a big battle and Gimli doesn't want to think about the existential threat to their love. He doesn't want his boyfriend sailing off into the Havens without him. Well, and they've now promised each other to go visit multiple places in Middle Earth. Together. Yeah, they have plans.
00:18:47
Speaker
and show each other little pieces of their culture. And so Gimli's like, are you, are you abandoning what we decided to do? Yeah. What about us Legolas? But they, they fill us in on the events of what happened after they left the paths of the dead. Yes. Mary and Pippin sense the discomfort and try to change the subject and ask about the journey. And Gimli really doesn't want to talk about it.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, because he's he was fucking terrified. And so he doesn't want to admit that, that he was yeah so overcome by fear that he almost didn't make it through the paths of the dead.
00:19:36
Speaker
But then Legolas, of course, has to flex on him a little bit because the Hobbits keep pressing for details and Legolas agrees to tell them a little bit. And he says, I will tell you enough for your peace for I felt not the horror and I feared not the shadows of men, powerless and frail as I deemed them. Just, you know, i I wasn't scared. I'll tell you because I'm a big brave elf boy. Sure, Jan, whatever you say.
00:20:05
Speaker
But we do get another song. It's short and it was not particularly exciting to me, but it was nice to see any kind of song after all of the bleakness and lack of songs that we had remarked on previously. So that was nice. Yeah, it's clearly like a piece of a larger song.
Strategic Debate to Distract Sauron
00:20:23
Speaker
This is like doing the like, I've been reminded of a lyric thing that. yeah when Whenever somebody says, oh, I'm, you know, making my way there,
00:20:34
Speaker
You go, you know, like making my way downtown, walking, you know, that sort of that sort of thing. That's exactly what's happening here. One of the things that comes up in this conversation is that Aragorn is of the line of Luthien. We know he's the heir of Isildur, but that he's of the line of Luthien. Of Baron and Luthien fame. Well, yes, I know. Right.
00:21:01
Speaker
Do you know who else is of the line of Luthien, Sam? Am I supposed to know? I feel like we must have talked about it, but I don't remember. Elrond. Oh. Which means so is Arwen. Oh, no.
00:21:21
Speaker
And I did the math. Aragorn. is descended by roughly 60 generations from Elros, Elrond's brother, which means Arwen is like his 60 times removed cousin. I feel like 60 times removed, if you're gonna be cousins, that's about as good as you can ask for.
00:21:55
Speaker
I mean, ah yeah, to be fair, that's I didn't do the research on like how related any two humans are on earth to each other, but I think it's like well within that. like It's just weird having their shared family member still be alive. Yes. Damn.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, I will choose not to worry about it. Yeah, I could I could do more research into that, but we're just I i feel like it's at that point, it's probably fine, but it is weird to be especially for like. I feel like especially for Elrond. To be like, yes, this is a descendant of my brother.
00:22:49
Speaker
and But also it's yeah gotta to be strange because Elros, there were then 22 generations between Elros and Elendil and Isildur. So by the time Isildur, who we have heard so much about in this story came around, we're already looking at 23 generations of removal isn from Elrond's brother.
00:23:19
Speaker
And there's a further like 35 generations before you get to Aragorn.
Ecological Impacts of Sauron’s Reign
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah. There's thousands of years. Yeah, I think at that point, you're probably good, but it is still weird to especially be alive and remember all of that and just watch it all happen. ah Yes. Yeah. The. Looking at the.
00:23:49
Speaker
family tree, it's you it's a bit of a bush.
00:23:57
Speaker
I mean, Elrond's parents were second cousins. It's old timey royal family stuff. It truly is. um It's not fucking Habsburg's, so.
00:24:16
Speaker
You know, they're all right. The look on your face. Does Arwen have a Habsburg jaw? No. Anyway, back to what happened with the dead. ah They came upon the corsairs of Umbar and the dead helped them fuck them up. Yeah. But they were very merciful. They found a bunch of captives from Gondor that were on the ships and made sure that they were okay and let them go and the the zombies fulfilled their oath and that was great for them. so It worked out very well. Yeah. And so they made their way to Minas Tirith and at one point
00:24:59
Speaker
through the sort of never ending darkness, they see, there were there were two lines in this section that made me think. The first was they saw like flames on the horizon. And Aragorn says, Minas Tirith is burning. And I just started the viral underclass today.
00:25:19
Speaker
And in the first chapter, the author makes a reference to the 1990 movie, Paris is Burning. So I now am sort of imagining what the ballroom and drag scene is like in Menace Tariff. Ooh, yeah. And has Baragon been to any of the bars? Oh, absolutely. Especially if all of the, well, I know that some children are still there, but presumably a lot of the women have been kicked out to go somewhere else.
Gandalf’s Speech on Hope and Evil
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, oh man, the gay scene must be flourishing. Baragond is mother. Stop.
00:25:59
Speaker
oh No, he doesn't have that kind of confidence. He's not that kind of leader. No, he doesn't. The second was Gimli saying the phrase, day without a dawn, which just made me think of the year without a summer, which I don't know if you're familiar.
00:26:18
Speaker
One of my professors in college was absolutely obsessed with the Year Without a Summer and particularly the like ecological effects that came out of that, but also the socio-political effects. The Year Without a Summer was 1816. There was a global temperature drop of 0.4 to 0.7 degrees Celsius worldwide due to the eruption of Mount Tambora in April of 1815,
00:26:49
Speaker
damn which basically created a volcanic winter due to massive amounts of ash being released into the atmosphere, blocking sunlight, leading to global cooling and global famine isn due to crops failing around the world. And so thinking about Sauron's I guess, ability to somewhat manipulate the weather. you know i I almost am wondering, you know how much of these clouds are storm clouds? How much of this is perhaps explosions coming from Mount Doom or other volcanoes, places? like What are we looking at here? How temporary is this? What are going to be the ecological effects later down the line of this
00:27:43
Speaker
these days without dawn.
Marching on Mordor: Leadership and Morale
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. And one I don't necessarily have the answer to. But anyway, they arrived back at Minas Tirith, they fought, and now they're here, basically is the ending of that section.
00:28:03
Speaker
Yeah. And everyone just really wants the war to be over, but they acknowledge that there's still a lot of fighting left. And then the companions just kind of chill in silence while the captains talk in their tents. And around this point in the chapter, I was wondering why it's called the last debate because nothing had been debated yet. And then we cut to the debate. Right. And this is an entirely separate area. This is outside of the city.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yes. so This is a POV switch to Imra Hill, and he meets up with Amer, Aragorn, Gandalf, and the various sons of Elrond. Elro here and Eladan. Yes. To figure out what they are going to do. We you know have a short chapter on, I said, strategic objectives and quarterly goals. so this This felt like meetings that I've sat through that I definitely didn't need to be in.
00:29:02
Speaker
where you know people who make at least three times your salary are talking about things that you have no say in. yeah And so you're sort of like, why am I here? The people that you will talk over are people who are two rungs up from me on the ladder, so anyway. But there's none of that here because everyone here is essentially a king or a prince. But their big strategic challenge, because this is this is a whole talk about strategy. What's next for them now, militarily, now that they've driven off this invasion of Minas Tirith?
00:29:45
Speaker
Yeah. And the biggest issue facing them and is the fact that very simply the enemy is stronger than them and they just don't have any sort of force multiplier that can level those numbers.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yes. And they open with Gandalf talking about Denethor's last words about what he saw in the Palantir and there being no defeating the power that has now arisen. And we had talked about last time that I wasn't sure about the trustworthiness of the information from the Palantir because it seemed like he was being very fatalistic, but also we have no reason to doubt that the vision was true. And Gandalf explains that very neatly and says that, yeah, a military victory is impossible in this situation. and
00:30:40
Speaker
what Denethor saw. Obviously, Sauron had an agenda and he interpreted it a certain way, but it was true. He saw that there was no way to just beat the forces of Mordor in an all out fight. But I was also interested in the fact that we're just now openly talking about the ring. Right. And I i i saw this here is now. We've basically winnowed out anybody that would want to use the ring as a weapon. And I think now having learned from Faramir where he last saw Frodo, Gandalf now knows that the ring is beyond reach. No one from their side can go and stop Frodo. Either Frodo will succeed or Frodo will perish. And if he perishes, they're all fucked. Yeah.
00:31:37
Speaker
So at this point, Gandalf has read everybody in on the ring. And basically it's like that's our greatest chance is to destroy the ring because Sauron at that point will lose so much power as to be essentially removed from the world. I noticed specifically that Gandalf doesn't say that this will kill him. Oh, interesting. I didn't pick up on that.
00:32:02
Speaker
Like it very it it very much does not refer to Sauron's death. It talks about removing an evil from the world, but he will be maimed forever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. Because Sauron is the same type of being as Gandalf. And just as Gandalf,
00:32:30
Speaker
didn't die even when his physical form did. Sauron also probably is, in a sense, immortal. But so much of his power is tied up in the ring that destroying the ring forever destroys his power.
00:32:47
Speaker
Yeah, and that vibes with the bigger picture of other things that Gandalf's talking about here in saying that also Sauron is not the only problem that exists. There was a really nice quote from him. Other evils there are that may come. For Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary. Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succor of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in fields that we know.
00:33:17
Speaker
so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule." And I think that unintentionally goes so well with what we were saying about ecological impacts of things and a field metaphor is so good. But also get off making the point that yeah, even if we can't completely destroy Sauron, even if we can't solve every single problem in the world in this situation, this is the task that is appointed to us while we're here, and it is possible for us to handle it. And it was just a nice little thing, general wise words, but then also the invocation of Sauron being but a servant and that being fucking terrifying. Well, it's because Sauron at, you know, at one point was but a servant of Morgoth. Yeah. And now I'm thinking about Morgoth and he's scary.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but he's been defeated before. And so, and we've seen that it's not just Sauron that can rise up and seek power. We've already defeated Sauron on last book. And so it is not inevitable. And it is in fact more than likely that other evils will rise up over time. Yeah.
00:34:45
Speaker
you know They will not completely eliminate evil from the world by these actions. But so basically, they treat themselves as distraction. Yeah, they're the bait. They are. Aragorn has already used himself as bait to try and draw an army to Minas Tirith, to try and draw an army out of Mordor. And that was successful. That was a gamble that paid off.
00:35:15
Speaker
but Aragorn sort of acknowledges that like it might not have. yeah And there are still eight Nazgul, the Witch King's dad, but there's still eight others, right?
Confrontation with the Mouth of Sauron
00:35:28
Speaker
And so they can't win by force, but they are going to still march directly on his front gate. yes Basically to be like, look at us making this obviously suicidal move.
00:35:43
Speaker
I bet you think we have the ring, right? Because that's the only way we would possibly do something this reckless with such a small force. So you should commit more of your force to crush us completely while we send two small hobbits to sneak right up your back door and destroy the ring. And Amr makes a really good point during this conversation.
00:36:11
Speaker
saying that, okay, if Sauron had the ring, it would be pointless to challenge him because he would be so powerful. So if he believes that we have the ring, why would he bother challenging us because wouldn't he think that we're invincible? That is a good fucking question. And Gandalf does have some good answers. He says that, first of all, Sauron is not 100% sure that they have the ring, but he's not going to wait around to find out. Even if he was 100% sure and they had it specifically, they couldn't learn how to wield it in a day. And even if they could learn how to wield it, it only has one master.
00:36:55
Speaker
And besides all of that, they're just going to be bait anyway, so it's fine. But I like Amr's thinking. He's being very pragmatic here. this is They're playing some 4D chess game here with Sauron to try and draw as much of his energy and attention away from searching for Frodo and the Ring.
00:37:22
Speaker
so that Frodo can potentially defeat, can potentially destroy the ring, which gives them a chance at defeating the evil. yeah And so they decide, fuck it, yeah, let's go ah march on the gates.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, they all agree to participate. Imrehill is also more than willing to go. But as the temporary acting steward of Gondor, he's also obligated to think of its people and he's not going to leave Minas Tirith totally undefended. And he also is really thinking clearly he's got good presence of mind. He just seems like a good guy. I like him a lot.
00:38:08
Speaker
And they figure out that they have reinforcements coming up from the south and they should arrive in about two days before our friends depart. So it'll all work out very nicely timing wise. And Imrehill is also worried about the gate that's been destroyed. i gro And Aragorn assures him that he'll have... Yes, by Grand. And Aragorn assures him that he'll have Ginli look into it.
00:38:33
Speaker
and that men are better than Gates in the meantime. But I did also just like that connection because Gimli already has some notes about the gate. He will be giving his opinion whether you want it or not. Yeah, but well, the unfortunately, Gimli's not going to repair the gate until they're successful. Yeah. He needs Smiths from Erebor to take care of this. Yeah, this is a long-term plan. um But Aragorn's not wrong. Having defenders that can you know set up temporary defenses or focus their defenses in this particular place is ultimately going to be better than a stationary gate that can just be knocked down with another big ram. And I was thinking about these gates falling because of our book club book this month, which we're currently reading
00:39:30
Speaker
The Song of Achilles, which we've actually talked about on this podcast before.
Preparing for the Battle of Mordor
00:39:35
Speaker
isn't And I have barely started it. I'm on chapter two, so but I will make more progress. Yeah, so I won't like spoil things other than eventually Troy falls. No, really? Spoilers for the Iliad. um but Spoilers for a Homer, sorry. But thinking about summoning basically magic to build these gates that were already magic and had to be shattered by magic. I was thinking about in Greek myth, the walls of Troy were built by Apollo and Poseidon. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes, as depending on which myth you read either
00:40:25
Speaker
like in agreement with a King of Troy or as punishment by Zeus for rebelling against him and failing. e So, you know, if you if you're are a Lore Olympus fan, which I read way too much of that before I tapped out, but Apollo rising up against Zeus is something that does in fact happen in Greek myth on more than one occasion.
00:40:55
Speaker
Um, it's the, it's the sons always try and overthrow their father's thing. Anyway, the sons literally. Heh. Heh. Cause it's Apollo. Heh. Heh. Anyway, I did have.
00:41:09
Speaker
a couple last little things about this before we move on to the next chapter. Yeah. So, you know, they've all agreed to the plan. They reached the end of their debate. And this conversation was so calm and respectful that it hand on my heart literally was not recognizable to me as a debate because I live in an American hellscape. If Tolkien had not described this conversation as a debate, it wouldn't have even occurred to me to describe it as one because it's just a calm conversation.
00:41:47
Speaker
in which a bunch of people agree on a plan, bring up some reasonable concerns, talk it through, and then work out with the solution that everyone's on board with. that That's what a debate can be. So my, I mean, obviously Tolkien does describe this as a debate, but my reading of this initially, I i got something else out of it, which was, are you familiar with the phrase, Altimo Ratio Regem? No.
00:42:16
Speaker
The last argument of kings, which ah Louis XIV of France had cast on his cannons. Damn. The last argument of kings is violence. The last debate, the last argument that they are choosing to make.
00:42:39
Speaker
is military violence use of military force against Mordor despite the fact that they cannot win, despite the superior numbers of Mordor. And so you know it's it's it's the last argument. It's their last their last debate, their last last hope. I like it. So that was my thought off of that. Yeah.
00:43:05
Speaker
And Imrehill does a nervous laugh at the absurd inadequacy of this plan. The absurd inadequacy of the plan because how many people are they bringing to assault Mordor? 7,000 if they can manage to wrestle that up. Mostly on foot.
00:43:27
Speaker
Mm hmm. And we don't know the size of the forces of Mordor, but it's basically implied that like 7000 soldiers is like a joke. That's a walk in the woods. Yeah, that's a drop in the bucket compared to the infinite reserves of power that they have in Mordor.
00:43:51
Speaker
And at this point, I'm just really missing Sam and Frodo. I hope they're okay. Just worried about everyone and everything. We'll find out eventually. Fucking hope so. Maybe. Well, we'll learn some things this this next chapter. Yeah, so did you have anything else, or should we go right on to chapter 10, The Black Gate Opens? No, I think we can progress to The Black Gate Opens.
00:44:17
Speaker
Hell yeah. And I remember back in book two of the two towers, the Black Gate was closed. So now the Black Gate is opened and it did take me a while to remember what the Black Gate was. It's the big gate to Mordor. That's what it is. but As the newbie, as the apprentice, I am obligated to faithfully report when I forget shit. So if anyone else also forgets important shit, like what the Blackgate is, don't worry, you're not the only one. There's a lot to keep track of.
00:44:47
Speaker
There's a lot of names, too, in this chapter as they march through various parts of land. And I was like, isn't that here? And had to sort of like try and remember where certain places are that we've already passed through or heard mentioned previously, because our characters came south through here, but now they're going back north and anyway.
00:45:10
Speaker
I didn't dedicate too many brain cells to trying to keep track of that too closely. When you make the map for Instagram, I will enjoy seeing the map. Yeah, I'll have to remember to put the map on. I haven't put the map on a couple of previous posts, but I'll have to remember to put it up again for this, because we are definitely moving through some interesting territory. Yeah. But they all get ready to march out without Mary.
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's still not recovered enough to go, so it's just going to be Pippin. And Mary is left in the city with Virgil and who's also watching Baragon ride out. who And I really hope this isn't the last that we see of Mary because he's great. And he just had his amazing moment in battle. It sucks for him to be left behind. Well, and Aragorn has kind of this trying to be cheerful little speech with him.
00:46:06
Speaker
but it's really not that cheerful. It's very much like, hey, we might die. And if we die, you also are gonna die, but like not until a little bit later. So, you know, don't feel too bad that you're not coming with us. Also, you've done cooler things than Pippin, so have fun.
00:46:30
Speaker
Yeah. I had written down a longer quote, which if I need to trim it in editing is fine, but as. Mary and Virgil are watching everyone march out. The last glint of the morning sun on spear and helm twinkled and was lost, and still he remained with bowed head and heavy heart, feeling friendless and alone. every Everyone that he cared for had gone away into the gloom that hung over the distant eastern sky, and little hope at all was left in his heart that he would ever see any of them again.
00:47:03
Speaker
As if recalled by his mood of despair, the pain in his arm returned, and he felt weak and old, and the sunlight seemed thin. He was roused by the touch of Virgil's hand. Come, Master Perion, said the lad, you are still in pain, I see. I will help you back to the healers. But do not fear. They will come back. The men of Minas Tirith will never be overcome, and now they have the Lord Elfstone and Baragon of the Guard too.
00:47:28
Speaker
And there's so much there, and it fucking destroyed my heart. I have a lot to say about that, but do you have anything to say about that part first? That quote just really reminded me that Virgil is 10. Mm-hmm. Like, that is that is a kid. That is a child. Being like, hey, listen, don't worry. You know, the king's here, and my dad's with them too. My dad!
00:47:57
Speaker
and I work with kids, as we know, and when a kid genuinely tries to comfort an adult, that is the most heartbreaking, heart-melting thing because it takes so much for them to get out of their own little tiny brains that uses so much brain power, empathy is so hard, and then to just rub all their little brain cells together and come up with the most comforting thing that they think could possibly help in any given situation. If that's just, you know, holding your hand or giving you a sticker or saying it's going to be okay. It's just, it's so heartbreaking because a kid should never be in that position of having to comfort an adult. And even though Mary is, you know, not, I guess, terribly older proportionally, I mean, he's older than Pippin, but not a ton.
00:48:54
Speaker
It's still just like, oh, you're you're a baby. You shouldn't have to be worrying about making anyone else feel better in this situation. You should be being comforted. But the reality of the situation is that you're all fucked and everyone has to deal with it. Oh, that's awful. And he's such a good kid. And if he dies, I'll be upset. But so far, everyone seems to be doing OK. Knock on wood. We'll see. And he's out here serving as a child soldier anyway.
Eagles' Arrival and Pippin's Determination
00:49:24
Speaker
Yeah, the baby. But anyway, they go on their march and you we slowly pass through Osgiliath and across the river. And as they go on their way, they're like announcing their presence at every turn. They're putting defenses back up. They're repairing old statues.
00:49:49
Speaker
theyre making decisions about leaving some people behind as a rear guard. Imrehill suggests taking out Minas Morigul and going up the Morigul Pass instead and taking them by surprise in the rear. And Gandalf shoots that idea down basically as a like, because he knows that that's where Frodo and Sam went and doesn't want to draw any more attention there.
00:50:20
Speaker
that sort of defeats the point of the distraction. Imrehill also, this whole time, ends up being Aragorn's biggest cheerleader. Yeah, he's awesome because as they're moving through the land, they have Heralds announcing the arrival of the Lords of Gondor are here. Come out and fight us if you want. And then there's no response to their challenge. But then Imrehill insists that they change it to the King Elisaur. And that's awesome. And they do because, yeah, he's just he's Eric Horn's number one fan. I love it.
00:50:55
Speaker
it's It's funny, because every time he's like, I owe my fealty to the king, you can almost see Aragorn go and like raise a finger. Because you know not last chapter, but like a couple of chapters ago, Aragorn was like, I'm not going to say that I'm king until this is all over, and I've had a chance to talk to Faramir, or you know the steward of the city which who is now Faramir.
00:51:24
Speaker
And Emeril's like, yeah, honestly, yeah I don't give a fuck. Well, that's like our dear friends who are now both officially lawyers. But before they did all of the bureaucracy and things they needed to do to make it official, every time we would call them lawyers, they'd go, not a lawyer. Not yet. Not technically. Legally, not a lawyer. Not the king.
00:51:50
Speaker
Janet from The Good Place, not a girl? Basically. Not a robot? But they encounter like some small issues, some small resistance that they take care of relatively easily, and the Nazgul start following them. Yes. Only Legolas can see them, but everyone can feel their vibes. Yeah, and it's not good for anyone's mental health. No. Now, if I'm having a really bad day, I'm just going to say that it's clearly due to the Nazgul.
00:52:18
Speaker
just clearly Obviously, just it's it's just hovering up in the sky. But they finally reach roughly the Black Gate. And you know some folks don't want to go on. Aragorn sends them back to retake Cara Andros instead.
00:52:38
Speaker
So it's like, basically, you know if you if you are too terrified to take these last steps, like you're not going to be useful. And that's OK. I understand the fear. it he sort of calls out the fact that like, these are not professional warriors.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of them are young. And he's giving them, Kara Andros is sort of an honorable way out. Say, if you're going to leave anyway, go do this. You might be successful. ah You might not be as ashamed. And a lot of them go do that. But some are just encouraged by his reassurance that there's still something they can contribute. And they stick it out. They stay with the army.
00:53:26
Speaker
But so when they finally reach the Black Gate, between people they've left behind as a rearguard and this other force that they've now sent to Cara Andros, they are 6,000 strong. And they send out their little parlay party with Gandalf, Elinor, and Elrohir, Eamer, Aragorn, Imrehill. That's a lot of vowel names. Legolas, Gimli, and Pippin. Except Pippin is identified with his full government name.
00:53:55
Speaker
Of course he is. Because we've learned nothing about secrecy. Although, I think if you roll up with that group of people, knowing your real name is not going to be your biggest concern. Yes. It's hardly subtle. And the Black Gate opens.
00:54:14
Speaker
Or actually, to go back for a minute. then the the The text identifies Pippin by his folk by his his full name, by peregrine, but not like to anyone specifically. Oh, interesting. it just It's describing like who the party is that's going to negotiate.
00:54:37
Speaker
There's also a throwaway reference to the landscape and they're being slag and broken rock and blasted earth, the vomit of the maggot folk of Mordor. Uh, what are the maggot folk? Is that or just a colloquialism? Are there real maggot people? Orcs. Okay. Orcs. Okay. Cause I was imagining worm people and it was very unpleasant. So I'll i'll take Orcs. That's good.
00:55:02
Speaker
it's it's a It's a derogatory sort of term for the orcs. It's, you know, describing them essentially as as low as maggots. The destruction. Well, that seems like a big generalization. Yeah, the destruction that they have wrought as, you know, like vomit, like completely disorganized. Borbag and Shagrat deserve better. They do. They and their gay commune. Yeah. Anyway.
00:55:32
Speaker
The black gate opens. And out of it comes the mouth of Sauron. It's fucking horrible. I know I've read a lot of quotes this episode. If you want the quote or if you want to paraphrase what this motherfucker looks like,
Reflections and Community Engagement
00:55:48
Speaker
by all means. Let's see.
00:55:53
Speaker
At its head there rode a tall and evil shape mounted upon a black horse. If horse it was, for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. And I think that's just the description of the weird creepy horse thing. But its rider is no ringwraith, no spirit, but a human.
00:56:23
Speaker
a Black Numenorean. Which, yikes. That's Tolkien, buddy. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. We can't. We can't with Black Numenoreans all being evil worshipers of Sauron. Try again. Well, it's it's it's not a racial description. I know, but it is still. It is still... They can't do that. No. Most depictions of Black Numenoreans do depict them as like light skinned as as white, more or less. Well, that's because people can only conceive of Lord of the Rings characters as being white. This is true, except for the dark skinned Haradrim, obviously. Yeah, it's just it's a bad look. Yes. I don't care what it's meant to represent in 2024. You can't do that. But this guy's fucking terrible.
00:57:22
Speaker
I was sort of interested to think about how old he is, because if he's of the line of Numenoreans, and Black Numenoreans specifically were Numenoreans who followed Sauron after the fall of Numenor,
00:57:41
Speaker
Numenoreans live a long time, up to three centuries, roughly. And it mentions that the mouth of Sauron, who no longer has a name, or if he did, it's not recalled anywhere. It mentions that the mouth of Sauron has been in Sauron's service since Barador was rebuilt, which was about 70 years ago at this point. But it's sort of unclear of whether or not this particular mouth of Sauron was alive like all the way during the Last Alliance a couple of thousand years ago, or if he's a descendant of the Black Numenoreans of that era who is now in the service of Sauron. And I think that's probably the case, considering he's a, quote, living man. Yeah, that's the vibe that I got. But the idea sort of being that he is the direct foil to Aragorn.
00:58:41
Speaker
You know, he is Aragorn in reverse. And he does taunt Aragorn and they have a little staring contest. And he tries to sass our guys. And, you know, seeing obviously that they've showed up armed, it's all their forces going, oh, I'm just a messenger. Don't hurt me. Tee hee.
00:59:05
Speaker
and He's saying, you know, something about there being customs about not hurting Mestra. I'm just the mouth of Sauron. I'm not Sauron. And again, well, and this this gave me the vibe because like he opens up with insults.
00:59:22
Speaker
Right? Basically saying Aragorn is, you know, too dumb to understand him and, you know, not a worthy king, worth no more than any brigand of the hills, you know, doesn't have enough soldiers. And this, and then of course it's like,
00:59:43
Speaker
don't hit me, don't hurt me, I'm just an ambassador. And this gave me the vibe of like conservatives online who will say like heinous shit to you. And then when you're just like, dude, shut the fuck up.
00:59:57
Speaker
They get all, you know, you're oppressing me. It's my free speech. You're so mean. Like, shut the fuck up. You want to be a victim so bad. Yeah. But that's the point. Right. The point is they're trying to use the human decency, whether it's the conservatives trying to use your human decency or the mouth trying to use Aragorn's decency.
01:00:20
Speaker
to like move the goalposts and make you feel bad for either retaliating or setting reasonable boundaries on your interactions. If you block me, you're afraid of debate. No, I'm curating my online experience to fucking relax, which is supposedly one of the points of social media. So Gandalf is like, you're a dick, ah but we're not going to hurt you yet.
01:00:45
Speaker
And because the mouth of Sauron is saying, you know, about customs, not hurting messengers, Gandalf says, where such laws hold, said Gandalf, it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence. So shut the fuck up. You are not. He calls him out on this immediately.
01:01:04
Speaker
And Mr. Mouth has one of his men bring out a bundle which has Sam sword Frodo's elven cloak and Frodo's mithril shirt in it. And that's no good. they He basically outlines what they believe they know, which is they accuse Frodo of being a spy and these items all made by dwarves, elves, and men obviously speak to a grander conspiracy that everyone is working together to try to overthrow Sauron and
01:01:39
Speaker
he advises Gandalf to think very carefully about how he responds to Sauron's demands, or they will keep Frodo alive magically and torture him forever. When the bundle comes out, Pippin you know is overcome with grief, like visually.
01:02:02
Speaker
lets out a cry and shows that these are important items. So it feels like the mouth essentially has won the first two moves of this little game, right? The insults, I feel like, were designed to make Gandalf speak, right? Because when Gandalf speaks,
01:02:29
Speaker
the mouth turns to him and goes, you know, so you're the spokesman. Well, we know who you are. And we know that you can't oppose Sauron because they're the same type of being Gandalf was when he was sent to Middle Earth initially forbidden from going toe to toe with Sauron. Oh, I didn't know that.
01:02:54
Speaker
But now he's here and now he is going not necessarily directly against Sauron, but he's serving not just as an advisor, but as a leader almost in his own right. um He doesn't bring any additional force to the field.
01:03:14
Speaker
but he isn't just serving in like an advisory capacity. yeah And so I feel like you know the mouth was trying to get Gandalf to identify where he stands in all of this. ah Because if Gandalf didn't speak and it was just Aragorn speaking, then the mouth knows that, okay, Gandalf is still taking a back seat. right We don't have,
01:03:44
Speaker
Lesser deity, wizard level, angel level powers at play here. Yeah. But Gandalf speaking up is like, okay, that's where we're at. Good to know. Yeah, you no longer have plausible deniability. You have outed yourself as fully being on their side. And similarly, when Pippin has that moment of grief, when Frodo and Sam's goods are brought out, the mouth knows that they belong together.
01:04:17
Speaker
like that this that Whoever they took these off of, wherever they found these goods, that was part of this organization. And so they can use that as a negotiating tactic. If they brought these out and the the parley party was like, hmm, never seen these things before, that's that's wild.
01:04:44
Speaker
the mouth couldn't have been like, well, we have one of your people, because then the party still has plausible deniability, as you were saying, as to whether or not you know this this being who is loose or captured in Mordor is part of their party. But based on this conversation, the mouth is threatening eternal torment on the captured hobbit, but he keeps referring to a singular being,
01:05:14
Speaker
Yes, I noticed that. Uh-huh. And we know that these things come from two people because they specifically mention Sam's sword and Frodo's mail. Yes. And the cloak could come from either of them, right? But the mouth and there thereby Sauron only knows of one of them. And we know that Frodo was captured. So Sam is still out there.
01:05:41
Speaker
Yes, I was so worried. I was taking my notes and I was writing down that they're going to torture Sam and Frodo forever. And then I was looking back at the text and going, wait, no, they're only talking about one hobbit, which means that Sam is still out there somewhere. Right. Because we are nine to 12 ish days from where we left Sam and Frodo.
01:06:04
Speaker
Right? Because they were getting captured at the same time that Faramir was fleeing Osgiliyev and there was like two days of battle and then a couple of days of healing and then two days while they gathered and then a seven day march here. So it's been almost, it's been like two weeks. So whatever shit has happened in that time, Sam has not been discovered. And I think it's also telling because Gandalf then is basically trying to be like, you're showing us this stuff, we need fucking proof of life. And that's where negotiations break down, roughly. That's when the mouth moves on from talking about the spy because the mouth has no more information. That's all they've got. yeah it's He confirmed that,
01:06:59
Speaker
whoever is Lucent Mordor was together with this group of people, that they are aligned on the same goals and has no further information from there. Yeah, and he offers a totally unreasonable hostage deal. I don't think it's a hostage deal. That's the thing. Oh, okay.
01:07:18
Speaker
is it's it Gandalf is treating it as a hostage deal. because that puts them on equal footing. But the mouth, essentially, is offering them terms of total surrender yeah to maintain the upper hand that they clearly have in numbers. It's it's a very David and Goliath scenario. whereas the So like the mouth is trying to very clearly place Mordor where it is.
01:07:47
Speaker
as the superior force, as having you know all the cards. And Gandalf is trying to be like, well, we're on equal footing, actually. Yeah.
01:08:00
Speaker
Gandalf basically says no fucking way to these absolutely ridiculous bonkers, total surrender terms. And the mouth of Sauron basically says, take it or leave it. And Gandalf goes, actually, you know what we will take? And then uses the Force again to get all of this stuff and just yeet it over to himself. It says, fuck you and fuck your terms. I think he physically walked over and took them.
01:08:30
Speaker
I thought it was a magic swoopiness. We can roll the tapes and find out. He did magic swoopiness to make the mouth recoil. Oh, and then he just gets up and takes it. I like that more, actually. And Gandalf coming seized and took from him the tokens. Amazing. Coat, cloak, and sword.
01:08:52
Speaker
Yeah. So he just fucking snatches the stuff up and then says, get you gone for your embassy is over and death is near to you. So good. A plus. And he leaves and the battle is on. Yeah. Because literally it says like before they got back to the gate.
01:09:12
Speaker
the trap is sprung. There are Easterlings and Orcs coming out of the gate and out of the hills. And so the army, which is positioned on two hills, makes two rings to sort of defend themselves on all sides. Yeah, there's very little time to react and the Nosgals show up because of course they do. And yeah poor Pippin is completely without hope.
01:09:40
Speaker
But he looks at his sword and at least that motivates him to do some murder, if he can. For it seemed best to him to die soon and leave the bitter story of his life since all was in ruin. Well, well, now at any rate, I understand poor Denethor a little better. We might die together, Mary and I, and since dying we must, why not? Well, as he is not here, I hope he'll find an easier end. But now I must do my best.
01:10:06
Speaker
he And so he draws his sword and then the enemy hits the shield wall. And very quickly, Baragon goes down. Yeah. It doesn't say the word die specifically, so who's to say? But Pippin does retaliate against the orc that smoked Baragon and kills that orc, but then the orc falls forward. Trolls.
01:10:38
Speaker
Oh troll. Excuse me. A troll? Bigger. Yes, bigger and badder. So then the troll falls forward and crushes Pippin and he passes out. And I have another long quote. But I think that it is worth reading because it's the end of the chapter. And It's evocative and is setting the tone for where we're gonna leave this group of characters. So it ends as I guessed it would, his thought said, even as it fluttered away, and it laughed a little with him ere it fled. Almost gay it seemed to be casting off at last all doubt and care and fear. And then even as it winged away into forgetfulness, it heard voices and they seemed to be crying in some forgotten world far above. The eagles are coming, the eagles are coming.
01:11:26
Speaker
For one moment more, Pippin's thought hovered. Bilbo, it said. But no, that came in his tale long, long ago. This is my tale, and now it has ended. Goodbye. And his thought fled far away, and his eyes saw no more. So first of all, if Pippin's fucking died, I'm gonna throw my computer into the ocean. there's no There's no way he died. I refuse to believe that Pippin is dead, but We have his resignation. we have For a second, I thought that the Eagles were actually coming, which would have been amazing. But no, we have the parallel to the Battle of the Five Armies and the fact this isn't like that. There's no one coming to save us. What the fuck do we do with this, Catherine? What do I do with this shit? We keep reading ah over the course of the next few months. I wish you could see Sam's angry face here.
01:12:25
Speaker
I wish you could see Rin's devilish little grin. I ah messaged you when I was doing this reading and said that I was chomping at the bit to record because I need to immediately go back to reading so I could see what happens. I exercise so much restraint in not reading ahead. But even if I did, I know that we're going to switch back to Sam and Frodo anyway. So I'm probably not going to fucking know what happens to Pippin until like the end of the book.
01:12:51
Speaker
So I am just gonna sit here and suffer and everyone who knows what happens can laugh at me But I don't know what happens. So this is this is my pain in real time I also just once again would like to note that Sam is the best of the hobbits and Also that hobbits are like bees They have like one to two stabs in them Oh, yeah. Stings, if you will. Yes, exactly. um Because Frodo, you know, tries to stand up to the Witch King and gets himself so stabbed and falls into unconsciousness and ends up in the House of Elrond. He also gets, you know, stabbed into unconsciousness by Shelob. Merry stabs the Witch King and loses consciousness, but manages to, you know, take out the Witch King in cooperation with Eowyn.
01:13:41
Speaker
isn it Pippin stabs a troll chief and gets crushed for his efforts. And Sam goes ahead and stabs Shelob multiple times and cuts off a leg and drives her off, possibly to death it's unclear. Sam is amazing. He's so good. And when I see him again it on just the next page, he's going to be so sad because he's without Frodo and he's stuck with the fucking ring and the impossible burden of the entire world on his shoulders. And I just want him to go home and eat potatoes and have a nice time. Sam roused himself painfully from the ground. You are... You're... Is the next line. You are on a slippery slope, Catherine. If you keep going like that, I'm gonna make you read me the whole chapter and we'll be here all night. I... You need to go to bed. Can't do that.
01:14:36
Speaker
So, ah this ends this half of Return of the King, end of book five, which means when we return to Tolkien, we will be picking up with book six, chapter one, The Tower of Sirith Ungal.
01:14:58
Speaker
In keeping with our standard operating procedure, we will probably have a break of some sort. At time of recording, I haven't quite figured out what's next for us, um bonus episode-wise, or in terms of how we're breaking up, book six.
01:15:21
Speaker
However, by the time this is published, we will be far ahead in recording and you will be able to access that information on our social media, at FanAppPod, on whatever social media site you choose to try and find us on. You can choose to try and find us on a lot of them, but you're only actually going to find us.
01:15:43
Speaker
on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Tumblr, and the information is probably just going to be on Tumblr and Instagram. Farmers only, Christian Mingle. Who's to say where you could find the fandom apprentice? I should make us a dating profile. I might have to clear that with my spouse. Does anyone want to date a podcast? and Not us, not the hosts, but the podcast, the content.
01:16:12
Speaker
I mean, I'm i'm open. I'm available. We'll see what we can do. You're a married woman. This is true. i I'm at capacity for deep, meaningful relationships, but... Yeah, so you can find that information out. I know, yeah, we are approaching the end of the year. We had discussed potentially taking a week off. Potentially we have a ah ah Christmas special episode coming out. Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yes. That's brewing in our little noggins. Whether we do that next or whether we start ah book six and then do our Christmas special just to make it a little more timely.
01:17:02
Speaker
will work that out. But by the time you're listening to this, you can find all of this information and what comes next. And if you are reading along with the podcast, what to read next on our social media. And if you have a bonus episode you'd like to see us cover, if you have reviews, you can you can leave us a written review if the podcast platform you're listening on allows that.
01:17:30
Speaker
You can leave us a comment on the videos on YouTube. I need names for my mermaids. You can leave us comments about that in our socials, you know, whatever. You can also always send us an email at thefandomapprentice at gmail dot.com. I'm signing us out unless we need any, we have any other commentary on these two chapters or book five as a whole. I feel like I don't have anything on book five as a whole, but Just thank you everyone for hanging out with us for an entire year, whether you've been with us from the very beginning or jumped in at some point along the way, it's really cool that people listen to the show and we are very happy to be here making it really just for each other, but anyone else who wants to join in with us is really awesome and we appreciate it tremendously. Yeah, we're having a good time and we get we get the occasional message from listeners, um usually in our DMs,
01:18:30
Speaker
usually with like commentary on weird shit we've said. And I i really enjoy it because i as i've I've said, I'm the quote unquote Tolkien expert. It means that like, yeah, I read a lot of Tolkien as a kid, but it's it's been a few years. And so you know between that and the random tangents that we go on and the little pieces of inspiration that we pull out I always love hearing from our listeners that know more about a particular topic than we do. If you're correcting us, be nice about it. Everyone has been very nice so far. I don't think we've received a single mean message. So keep that up for us. We have not. We have not. But, you know, I'm having a lot of fun with our little queer reading. We've got just a bit more, just another couple of episodes before we finish this.
01:19:27
Speaker
Journey through the Lord of the Rings novels. Yeah. And then we've still got movies. We've got more to go. We do. We do. I think we'll definitely do at least one full episode on the appendices. I think that's it. I think that's, that's my, uh, I think that's the cue. Yeah. Phoenix knows when we're wrapping up the podcast. And so now he's in his crate huffing and puffing and marching in circles. Cause he knows I'm going to let him out and give him a cookie.
01:19:56
Speaker
Well, um if you would like to see pictures of Phoenix, you can check out our social media, get the podcast to follow. And you know whether we take that break or not, you will be notified as soon as we drop a new episode. Whatever that next episode happens to be, check out our socials and we will see you next time.
01:20:17
Speaker
The Phantom Apprentice is produced and edited by Rin and Sam. Our music was composed and performed by James, and our art is by