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82 - Tulsa Race Massacre
50 Plays2 months ago
On this week’s show, Jeff shares the story of the Tulsa Race Massacre. The Tulsa race massacre was a two-day-long white supremacist terrorist attack that took place in the Greenwood District of Tulsa, Oklahoma, between May 31 and June 1, 1921.
Mobs of white residents - some of whom were deputized and armed by city officials - attacked Black residents and systematically destroyed homes, businesses, and institutions in what was known as “Black Wall Street.” The violence left Greenwood in ruins and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Black men, women, and children.
The Tulsa Race Massacre is widely considered one of the worst incidents of racial violence in American history and remains a critical example of how systemic racism, government complicity, and historical erasure shaped the United States.
⚠️Trigger Warning:
Racial violence, mass death, destruction of communities, white supremacist terrorism.
Sources:
- Tulsa Race Massacre: A History from Beginning to End by Hourly History
- National Endowment for the Humanities — article by Kweku Larry Crowe and Thabiti Lewis
- https://www.neh.gov/article/1921-tulsa-massacre
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer
- https://www.history.com/articles/black-wall-street-tulsa-visionaries
- https://www.tulsalibrary.org/black-wall-street
- https://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/22/tulsa_still_faces_historical_trauma_from
- https://cinematreasures.org/theaters/12823
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Transcript
Introduction and Show Setup
00:00:01
Jeff Rogers
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeffrey.
00:00:25
Jeff Rogers
Well, hello, Samantha. Hi, Jeffrey. Welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. I'm very uncomfortable with this. Why? Why is it so fast? It's freaking me out. let's say I feel like I'm in a race and I feel like I can't. I need i need to take that away. Put on the other side. we have, I don't know, all these hourglasses on the table here that we flip when we record. It's too fast. And Sam bought me an hourglass for Christmas and um it's sparkly and blue and glittery.
00:00:56
Jeff Rogers
And it's so beautiful. But say I told you it was like a minute. It is going so fast. I kind of love that though. Okay. Okay. Then put it right here.
Microphone and Recording Adjustments
00:01:05
Jeff Rogers
Is that one an hour? keep I'm going to keep my hour. Yeah, this is the hour. so I'm going keep my hour here, but put the minute minute one right there.
00:01:11
Jeff Rogers
it was this one was freaking me out like look at how spastic that but it's so beautiful it is beautiful but it's very spastic and that's our show and that's it and this is the first time that we've recorded in the new year oh fuck ah Because we haven't recorded in like three weeks. We basically didn't remember how to do this. Sam had a fight with the microphone.
00:01:33
Jeff Rogers
um It wasn't just the microphone. It was the microphone and then the position of both of the chair type, stool type things that I sit in. Because as Jeff pointed out, I have ah an upright where I start position. And then I need to also be able to move the microphone down so that when I slink at the end of the session...
00:01:54
Jeff Rogers
I can also bring it down such a way. So I had to, he used to make fun of me because the, the arm of the thing has one, two, three, it has four um rotation points.
00:02:09
Jeff Rogers
His always had a rotation or rotation or rotation. And up until right this moment, mine was always a straight shot.
00:02:20
Jeff Rogers
Like all of them were perfectly lined up because I could slink down. Yeah, you start out sitting and then over the course of two hours of recording, you go down and slump and slump.
00:02:33
Jeff Rogers
But my straight arm one always worked. But now I have a But now I think this might work better because now you can move it with you. i have i have a ah one, two,
00:02:45
Jeff Rogers
like a meat or and it We love a meat merp. We love a meat
Listener Engagement and Apologies
00:02:50
Jeff Rogers
merp. I feel like that is a that's very good visual representation. yeah A meat merp. Definitely a meat merp. And there's like a merp.
00:02:58
Jeff Rogers
Did you guys like all that conversation? We're done. That's the end of the show. Have a good one. Bye-bye now. Bye-bye. been a while. ah Follow us on Instagram. yeah Everything is in the show notes. The big thing is, though, I know we do have new people that are listening. And for anybody that is listening that is new or has listened for a while, thank you. for listening because we know you have to endure that thing that we just did okay we'll get to the show eventually we'll get to a story eventually but thank you for listening and you can find everything in the show notes like where we are who we are all the good stuff where you can find us all the things how to share it with your family members but the big thing rate review she give us a five star yeah
00:03:42
Jeff Rogers
Because it's the new year and we're amazing and you're still listening to us. Which is kind of awesome. And I think that that deserves five stars. I give you five stars, Jeff. I give you five stars, Sam. I would take three. I would take three. Solid three. would take one. Who am I kidding? I don't care. Anyone gives you a one, Jeff, I will find them. You will come after them.
00:04:03
Jeff Rogers
I think that we also need to refresh everyone on the fact that um I apologize for whatever comes out of my mouth this day, this episode, that you are listening because I have been a drinking beverages with alcohol for the past – what time is it?
00:04:26
Jeff Rogers
um For the past five hours. the past five hours I've been drinking alcoholic beverages. So Jeff said that this was okay. Alan, I know that you will do your damnedest to make sure that anything I say that is not okay will be taken out.
00:04:44
Jeff Rogers
But for... The people that don't know me, Alan will leave in a lot of things because i might be uncut and bonkers, but I'm not offensive, except for sometimes. And he will take out the offensive. Yeah, take out all the offensive stuff, Alan, but leave all the rest in because we don't care. Because I'm unfiltered.
00:05:07
Jeff Rogers
That was a fun day that we
New Year's Eve Reflections
00:05:08
Jeff Rogers
had. We went out to lunch. In D.C. We went into the District of Columbia. All of you that know us, that know me, know that I do not do that unless Jeff takes me there or I'm going to a sporting event. And so today is my day.
00:05:25
Jeff Rogers
i will go probably one other time this year, and that will be for Pride Month. Other than that, I do not do D.C. But Shubi was there waiting on us and we love Shubi. We do.
00:05:38
Jeff Rogers
He was there and we had a blast. And you know what? I have some things that i have taken away from this experience. Shubi. That I will forever treasure. Shubi, you're amazing. And thank you for supporting me and all of my things, Shubs. Shubi, thank you.
00:05:58
Jeff Rogers
You're a hero. Uh-huh. Okay, so what else? What's new? We haven't talked on here. It's 2026. That's insane. Number one that it's 2026. Jeff, we, listen, 2025 was not the best. It wasn't the worst, but it was not the best.
00:06:16
Jeff Rogers
And we survived it. So here we are What did you do for New Year's Eve? That was day... Because we had like four days in there where we did not communicate at all.
00:06:32
Jeff Rogers
So I worked every single day between...
00:06:38
Jeff Rogers
Pause while my phone loads. I worked every single day between December 19th through the 28th. And then I was off for just the And then worked 30, 31... and then i worked thirty thirty one And so for New Year's Eve, I was at the hospital with Bonnie and Naima. Oh, oh, oh.
00:07:05
Jeff Rogers
That was the night that we were so wicked short-staffed So that was it. That's what you did. Well, I came home because I got off early. At 7 p.m., yeah.
00:07:15
Jeff Rogers
And lit the fireplace and then watch some TV. i was i don't know. I watched this really good show. But then I was like, oh, it's New Year's Eve.
00:07:27
Jeff Rogers
um so i called my sister we chatted she was watching andy and anderson so i turned it on to andy and anderson anderson cooper andy cohen on cnn and watched them get absolutely hammered and talk shit i love that loved every minute of it oh that was ah that was fun so that's what i did at with the fireplace watch some movies then watch andy and anderson
TV Show Recommendations and Discussions
00:07:56
Jeff Rogers
Anyway, it was fun. But I also watched this show called The Crow Girl. Like, crow girl. Like, Raven Crow? Yes. That common misconception? Okay. And it is very similar to The Fall and to Happy Valley and to um ah Broadchurch.
00:08:23
Jeff Rogers
I mean, it's what in that lane of shows, like super dark. All these young men are being murdered. Is it on BB Air? I think it's Acorn.
00:08:35
Jeff Rogers
Look on Amazon. The Crow Girl. Yeah, it was so good. it's It's really good. I think you'll like it. It's your kind of show. Have you seen The Gone?
00:08:47
Jeff Rogers
No. Okay, so. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Can we open our drinks?
00:08:55
Jeff Rogers
Oh, yes. What are you drinking? Um, a poppy root beer. I am drinking poppy lemon lime.
00:09:09
Jeff Rogers
Um, so the gone, I know that you didn't watch grace. Grey's Anatomy? Yeah. But for Kayla specifically and all those who did watch Grey's and stick through all of the frickin' endless seasons, okay? Because holy crap.
00:09:30
Jeff Rogers
I haven't even made it past. I think I'm still on season like 18. don't know. That's insane. The last time I watched it was in 2006. Cheers, Queers. Cheers, Queers. To a new year. To a new year.
00:09:41
Jeff Rogers
To all the queers and all the nons. Yes, to everybody. Because we love everybody. Well, we love most people. There's plenty of people I hate, but... Yeah, the Crow Girl, you will like that. And also... yeah that's it.
00:10:00
Jeff Rogers
does it is it is Does it... That looks like... um Okay, all right, all right. You just put it on your list. There's a couple things happening at one time on this show, which kind of like is anxiety producing.
00:10:15
Jeff Rogers
ah have no idea what that is. I don't have anxiety. Yeah, the crow girl. But it's a bit like the fall. A bit like... how A bit. They're cops investigating ah the murder of young men. Okay, so I haven't watched this show yet, but it's called the Gone. And it has...
00:10:37
Jeff Rogers
um
00:10:38
Jeff Rogers
the guy oh no no no i'm oh no it's a new zealand irish crime drama okay so like what that's a lot new zealand an irish irish i mean i don't know It does not have any... Yeah, no. Yeah, it's New Zealand. I'm here for it. That's a lot of accents though, right? Yeah.
00:11:00
Jeff Rogers
And... It's a little different. the It's too much. Okay. But... ah So I haven't watched it yet. Did somebody recommend it to you? Somebody did recommend it to me.
00:11:14
Jeff Rogers
But the thing that gets me is that this guy, the bald guy... Oh, yeah. he is in the later ish season of Grey's and everyone that I know wishes that he and she and Meredith ended up with him.
00:11:33
Jeff Rogers
and I say later seasons, i don't even know what season I'm on. Kayla, you're to have to correct me because I think I'm on 18, but that could be wrong. Now, is Grey's as good on the 18th season as was on the... 112% not. When does it start to decline? When does it start to go down? Derek dies.
00:11:51
Jeff Rogers
What season was that?
00:11:53
Jeff Rogers
It's the same shit. Hey, Siri. When does Derek die in Grey's Anatomy?
00:11:59
Jeff Rogers
Oh, it's not going to talk to me. Season 11. Oh, I never made it that far. The end of season 11 and then season 12, I think she has to like pull the plug. I don't know. It's all, it's everything after that is just like,
00:12:15
Jeff Rogers
it's not, it's not the same. i remember. Because the whole point of that show, it's not just Grey's Anatomy. It is the Grey and fucking Derek show. Yeah.
00:12:26
Jeff Rogers
And, Yeah, no So as much as, listen, Shonda, you're my girl. If you ever listen to this, maybe in the future, please do not doubt that I love you and you are amazing.
00:12:39
Jeff Rogers
But me personally, personally, only me, I feel like I lost it after Derek was dead. And there was so much that happened afterwards and it just destroyed me.
00:12:51
Jeff Rogers
No one made me happy like them.
00:12:53
Jeff Rogers
And after that, it just kind of got to the point where it was like, how much horrible shit can happen to the same fucking doctors? And also, where are the nurses? They have one season, one episode where they're on strike and it's like the nurses are like there and you're like,
00:13:09
Jeff Rogers
But wait, for the rest of every single episode of every single show of every single season, it's four doctors yeah ambulating a patient. It's four doctors. They don't do that.
00:13:21
Jeff Rogers
and And the general surgeons, I'm so so, so, so, so sorry. They don't do that. The general surgeons do not come to the emergency department just to fuck around and do... Crikes and trachs and thoracotomies and intubations. No, sir.
00:13:36
Jeff Rogers
It does not happen. So I'm angry about Grace in a lot of ways. But Chandra is a great writer. Oh, my God. Do you know my favorite show? My favorite show that she's.
00:13:48
Jeff Rogers
Scandal. My favorite. Yeah. that she is the creator of. Scandal. Olivia fucking Pope. Shut it up. boss. And the whole show so far. I just. Have you seen Scandal?
00:13:58
Jeff Rogers
I have watched one season. i have watched the first season. Okay. so And that's it so far. Don't say anything else. No, the first episode of the first season where the man's girlfriend is dead and he's too afraid to be gay because he's a Republican like candidate for whatever and a military hero.
00:14:16
Jeff Rogers
And she... ah She is an icon as a writer. And Olivia Pope... Wait, wait, wait. Is she a writer or producer? I think both. Okay, Shonda, my girl, Shonda Rhimes, you are extraordinary. Again, Jeff and i love ya. Love you. Love Olivia Pope. Love, love everything. I just, my heart is broken grace. That's one of mine and Ashley's favorite characters.
00:14:40
Jeff Rogers
She's just so badass. I'll handle it. It's handled. there was another one that I watched recently from Shonda Rhimes, right? How to get away with murder or how to...
00:14:53
Jeff Rogers
um But I think I talked about it recently and it it it it was not. It was not on the like Grey's and Emmy because that's what got me to watch Scandal the first episode or the first season because we talked about it. Hold on.
Food and Drink Conversations
00:15:10
Jeff Rogers
So also here's the thing. Here's the dill. Here's the dill. Here's the dill. did have a dill martini. You did. You had a dill martini. pickle dilly.
00:15:21
Jeff Rogers
i had the virgin jalapeno, whatever that was that was delicious. We had some um good food. Oh my God. I had a burger. I know everybody's surprised when I say I had a burger. Wait, eat I thought you were a vegan. I only eat beef. sure um Oh, also. Bridgerton. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. She did Bridgerton?
00:15:51
Jeff Rogers
Shut up. Okay.
00:15:57
Jeff Rogers
Inventing Anna. I saw that one. and that was good. it was good. ah But I just watched one recently-ish.
00:16:05
Jeff Rogers
Bridgerton and then come on. Was it Inventing Anna? Inventing Anna was based on a true story. Yes.
00:16:17
Jeff Rogers
That was insane. Uh-huh. Horrible, terrible, awful, amazing.
00:16:24
Jeff Rogers
That woman was crazy. Oh, The Residence. Shonda did The Residence. Did you watch it yet? i can't do medical shows. It's not medical.
00:16:35
Jeff Rogers
It is not medical. And the thing is, is it is one, one season and it is an absolutely. It's not. met oh it's not the resident. It's the residents like the White House. I did watch this. she She is the investigator. She's kind of kooky. She comes in to figure out who killed the man or how that man died.
00:16:59
Jeff Rogers
And it is so good. And be like minister from France. Don't say anything else. Because honestly, Shonda, hey that one got me. I thought you were saying The Resident, which is like sounds medical. So there is a show called The Resident and it is medical and it's like a baby doctor. No one cares about that. No one cares about baby doctors.
00:17:21
Jeff Rogers
The residence, like the White House residence. Okay. There is a murder in the residence. Yeah, I that one. like that I didn't realize that was Shonda, but I guess I did my subconscious because holy crap, loved it.
00:17:35
Jeff Rogers
That was good. That was good. My favorite is Kendall, though. I can't, I don't have a favorite. I don't because there are so many bits of me that are tied to Grey's Anatomy and I will not forget it.
00:17:49
Jeff Rogers
And still, and Kayla will attest to this. However many times we watched the first handful of seasons, when all of those people die at separate points, it still guts you. And that is a sign of a true great story.
00:18:04
Jeff Rogers
wonder what ever happened to the blonde woman. Izzy? Yeah. What was her name? Izzy Stevens. Like in real life. That's her real name? No, that's her name in the show. Her name in real life is... i don't know. I know it because she was also in Firefly Lane, which was also a great show. But she kind of like fell off the radar. she Until she came back for Firefly Lane. Oh.
00:18:31
Jeff Rogers
So if you haven't watched Firefly Lane... is it dark? No, it's not. And it's so good. It's darkish. There's like dead.
00:18:44
Jeff Rogers
Should we do a story? Yeah, we should do a story. I've got a story for you. Katherine Heigl. Thank you. Katherine Heigl. But also Sarah Chalky. Is that who that is? She's in it. Oh, i like her. Yeah, love her.
00:18:56
Jeff Rogers
So i highly suggest you watch that too. um Also, there was the one with the
00:19:05
Jeff Rogers
blonde and brunette.
00:19:07
Jeff Rogers
Dead to me. You ever saw that? tened Dead to me.
00:19:12
Jeff Rogers
So put Firefly Lane on your thing to to watch.
00:19:16
Jeff Rogers
And Dead to me because it's got these ones in it.
00:19:19
Jeff Rogers
I want you to put the Crow Girl. i already put it on my list Okay. Those ones are good ones. Super dark. Super dark. yeah But it's like the shows that you like. British, crime, serial killer.
00:19:33
Jeff Rogers
Say no more. Yes. Say no more. Yeah. I started watching that and i was like, I've got to tell Sam about this one. Yeah, that's good. Okay, so we've cheers queered.
00:19:45
Jeff Rogers
Cheers queers. Cheers queersed? We cheers queersed.
New Format and Historical Storytelling
00:19:49
Jeff Rogers
Cheer queersed? No, I like cheers queersed.
00:19:53
Jeff Rogers
We did the cheers to the quills. We did the thing. we did the this week, you're only getting a story from me. Next week, you're getting a story from Sam. We've got some traveling, traveling stuff coming on And ah we're going down to one show per episode while we do this until February.
00:20:10
Jeff Rogers
Because that's all we got in us. Honestly. All we got in us. And today is January 8th. Yeah. And you guys, it is eight days into the new year. And like, way to fucking do it. You did it. You finished 2025. So pull your fairy wand up and do the damn thing, Jeff. Yeah. Okay. And also we should have, we were thinking today was Wednesday. Yeah.
00:20:34
Jeff Rogers
No, I thought it was Tuesday. Yeah, we were really fucked up on the day. So if you notice, this show come out on Friday, if you listen to it the day of. We're sorry about that, but here you go. but you technically, we are recording on Thursday. Yeah, it is Thursday at 5.20 p.m. So it's late for us. Sam's had a little bit to drink. It's been a fun day. And the show's coming out on Friday. There you go.
00:20:55
Jeff Rogers
Jeff has so many mocktails. He might be intoxicated. I don't even drink a mocktail usually, but today was just, I needed that like virgin Bloody Mary. But it looked so good. It hit the spot. When Shuby bought that one, knew you were going to get it. And it was spicy, yeah? It hit the spot. It had a little spice to it.
00:21:12
Jeff Rogers
It's kind of perfect. I wanted the bacon that he had in his i didn't know why he didn't put it in yours. Virgin maybe? I don't know, but Shubes didn't give you his bacon. He didn't eat his bacon. Did you know what said? Damn.
00:21:23
Jeff Rogers
Damn, Shubes. Okay. Are you ready for my story? i Am I? I don't know. Okay. Oh, okay. I will tell you this. Remember how we were sitting at work one day and I said, oh, Sam, I'm not really a history person. And you said, quote, I'm pointing to you. Immediately. i said, bullshit.
00:21:45
Jeff Rogers
Yes, you are. okay I've learned a little something about myself in this show. I do like history. And you're good it. But that's it new to me. It's not something I've ever enjoyed. But I think there's a different, like... um It's not your history that you are historically entertained. But no you are now yeah historically entertained. And so in some time, it will be your history that you are a history buff. And this particular story, i first learned about this 2020.
00:22:15
Jeff Rogers
in twenty twenty There were two shows that came out. um Lovecraft Country and The Watchmen. The Watchmen, yeah. With Regina Hall. ahha Did you watch that? Duh. Regina Hall was in it. Badass woman. Duh. Science fiction. Yeah. But based on a true story. Yeah.
00:22:34
Jeff Rogers
Do you know the story? The Watchmen, yeah. And it came out like prior to the summer of 2020 when there was like a lot of Black Lives Matter protests and... There was a lot happening. There was a lot happening in that summer, but people were watching The Watchmen and they were seeing like...
00:22:52
Jeff Rogers
It kind of like um intrigued people to find out what the basis of The Watchmen was about. And I was one of those people. Okay?
Tulsa Race Massacre: Unveiling History
00:23:02
Jeff Rogers
So i'm not gonna I'm going to take you on a little tour of history.
00:23:06
Jeff Rogers
So it's going to be stuff we did learn in school and then on to history that we did not learn in school. At least I didn't learn it in Alabama in the 1990s. And I'm pretty sure you didn't either. going to tell you the story of... Listen, Maryland is a northern state, so we might have learned it. Well, let me tell you this.
00:23:25
Jeff Rogers
I'll tell you this in a second. I won't spoil it. But I'm going to tell you the story of the Tulsa Race Massacre that took place in 1921. And that is the that is what the Watchmen is inspired by. Okay? This dark.
00:23:42
Jeff Rogers
The massacre, it is extremely dark, but it's fascinating to me. In a horrific way. And it's extremely important. story worth telling.
00:23:53
Jeff Rogers
And ah it wasn't even in textbooks until very recently. So that's how I know we didn't learn about it when we were in school, because it was not in textbooks.
00:24:06
Jeff Rogers
um The massacre was a two-day-long massacre by white supremacists that took place in the Greenwood District of Tulsa, Oklahoma, in the United States, within the span of 18 hours between May 31st and June 1st, 1921. Okay?
00:24:23
Jeff Rogers
But before that, we're going to go back a little bit, just so... because i think you need perspective to see where the country was right Everything's good place, right? Yeah, great place. Race, equality. was good. ah The Civil War, number one, 1861. The North was opposed to slavery. The South benefited from slavery because of the labor of the enslaved people. The Union won. 1868 to 14th Amendment to the Constitution was passed.
00:24:48
Jeff Rogers
stating that all African Americans, including those formerly enslaved, were free. 1870, the 15th Amendment was passed, saying that all male citizens should vote or could vote, and this couldn't be changed by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
00:25:06
Jeff Rogers
That was the story, but it wasn't at all the reality. Soon, some southern states said that they didn't like it, so they started enacting something called Jim Crow laws.
00:25:16
Jeff Rogers
They wanted segregation in schools and and in public places, and by 1910, 11 of the Confederate states, or southern states, had enacted these Jim Crow laws. Specifically, they wanted to make it harder for black men to vote, so there were new laws aimed at black voters.
00:25:36
Jeff Rogers
But Jim Crow laws were good thing? Question mark? Yeah, right. They wanted to... So the Supreme Court said black men could vote. And it was illegal to make them, to prevent them from voting. But the Jim Crow laws, they did things to kind of block black people from voting.
00:26:01
Jeff Rogers
And so prevented it from getting to the Supreme Court's spot. It's a very tricky thing that they did, right? They kept it below... They introduced new voting requirements like litery literacy tests, proof of employment and residence, and payment of local polls taxes.
00:26:19
Jeff Rogers
Black people effectively disappeared from political life. Another thing they did that I read about was they put um marbles in a container, and like the black man had to guess how many red marbles were in the container to be able to vote.
00:26:35
Jeff Rogers
I mean, it was... But they didn't do it to the white people. No, not at all. expert Sorry, the white man. Because it was only against African Americans. Right. So Oklahoma was formally admitted to the union in 1907. And when it became a state, many of the politicians wanted to incorporate the Jim Crow laws into the constitution. But President Roosevelt said, no, no he blocked it.
00:26:59
Jeff Rogers
Oklahoma became a state. And the first thing that the state Senate did was disenfranchise black voters. And this set the scene for what's going to come. So by the time Oklahoma became a chemist state in 1907, they were already...
00:27:13
Jeff Rogers
There were already a lot of black communities there, as many as 20 towns were all black. On August 4th, 1916, Tulsa passed an ordinance that mandated residential segregation by forbidding members of either race from residing on ah any block where three quarters or more of the residents were members of the other race.
00:27:32
Jeff Rogers
Although the United States Supreme Court declared such an ordinance unconstitutional the following year, Tulsa and many other cities continued to establish and enforce segregation segregation for the next three decades.
00:27:45
Jeff Rogers
So now World War I is over. Servicemen return to Tulsa following the end of the First World War in 1918 as they tried to reenter the labor force. servicemen of every color Of every color, very important, black men, white men, Hispanic men, any man was fighting in World War I, including black men. okay um There was a lot of social tensions when they came home and white supremacist sentiment increased in cities where the job competition was fierce. It was a lot of their take in my job.
00:28:18
Jeff Rogers
That shit never goes away. I don't know what that's yeah like. you know We have such a different take on life now. An economic slump in northeastern Oklahoma increased the level of unemployment. The Civil War, which ended in 1865, was still in living memory of the people. Civil rights for African Americans were lacking.
00:28:37
Jeff Rogers
Still, okay. And also around this time, the KKK was resurgent. And that was influenced by President Woodrow Wilson in 1915 saying, hey, let's all screen the birth of the nation, the birth of a nation in the White House, which was this really racist film so it was coming from the white house which if you haven't watched it don't it's nasty fucking horrible Well, President Wilson viewed this at the White House. so Since 1915, the KKK had been growing in urban chapters across the country. Its first significant appearance in Oklahoma occurred on August 12th, 1921. the Tulsa's residents were
00:29:22
Jeff Rogers
according to one estimate In the early 20th century, lynchings were common in Oklahoma as part of the continuing effort to assert and maintain white supremacy. By 1921, at least 31 people, mostly men and boys, had been lynched in the newly formed state. 26 of those people were black.
00:29:42
Jeff Rogers
So here we are, May 31st, 1921, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Okay. What? You got a thought? I'm surprised that there were non-African-Americans. There were indigenous people. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. They still had color. yeah It wasn't white people. They just happened to not be African-Americans. Right.
00:30:03
Jeff Rogers
Specifically, we're going to go to Greenwood, the neighborhood in Tulsa, home Tulsa, Tulsa, Tulsa, I get that. i know where that is. I'm going to tell you about some people and businesses in Greenwood, okay?
00:30:15
Jeff Rogers
John and Lula Williams became some of the wealthiest black people in Tulsa. They owned the Dreamland Theater on Greenwood Avenue in Tulsa, Oklahoma, along with a rooming house, a confectionery. i love that. You said they were black? Yeah.
00:30:30
Jeff Rogers
Huh. We're in Greenwood. the And this is what um somebody would coin Greenwood as the Black Wall Street. This is a neighborhood in Tulsa that in 1921 is doing so well.
00:30:48
Jeff Rogers
35 blocks of Tulsa, Oklahoma is Greenwood. That's wild. Yeah. Kind of unbelievable. Yes. Okay. The story is crazy. So John and Lula Williams, they were wealthy black people. They own dreamland theater on Greenwood Avenue in Tulsa, Oklahoma, along with a rooming house, a confectionary commercial rental property, property, and a garage. The theater itself was freaking amazing. It opened on August 30th, 1914, it showed live musicals, theatrical reviews, as well as silent movies. Okay.
00:31:20
Jeff Rogers
Education was also big in the Greenwood neighborhood and it drew families to Greenwood. In 1913, Booker T. Washington High School opened, hiring Ellis Walker Woods as a principal, a beloved educator who would serve in that role for 35 years.
00:31:37
Jeff Rogers
Woods, who was college educated, walked from Memphis to Oklahoma after seeing a flyer advertising for black teachers in Oklahoma. This is like i it's a like, it's a place of like- um Hope.
00:31:54
Jeff Rogers
A place of hope for people. I'm just goingnna tell you all about it. I got the papers right here. I was going to start winging it off the top of my head, but I was like, I have it all right here written down. Now there was a man named J.B. Stratford, the son of a former enslaved man. He was a lawyer from Kentucky who owned public art pool halls, shoeshine parlors, and boarding houses.
00:32:15
Jeff Rogers
Before moving to Tulsa around 1899 with the goal of creating wealth there, Mr. Stratford invested in real estate properties and built the Stratford Hotel on Greenwood Avenue, a luxury establishment that was, at the time, considered the largest black-owned hotel in the entire country.
00:32:33
Jeff Rogers
Wait, does that does that name, should that name ring about the Stratford? That seems familiar to me. Maybe. I don't know about now. okay I've seen interviews with some of the descendants okay of his. um In 19, okay, so the hotel...
00:32:48
Jeff Rogers
was the largest black owned hotel in the country with 51 suites, a pool hall, a saloon, and a dining room. By 1921, check this, the hotel and the land that it was on was worth $100,000 in 1921. 1921? In 2026, right now. In Oklahoma. In Oklahoma, right now, that same property would be worth $1.81 million. Wow.
00:33:07
Jeff Rogers
and oklahoma right now that same property would be worth one point eight one million dollars no way it would be more come on and that's just no that's what it i looked it up that's what the um worth of just that one hotel on that one block was worth and that that is um when you hear people talk about um generational wealth That's it.
00:33:34
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. yeah His family saw none of that because it was burned down. Right. ah And then another really interesting fact before I get into the story is that this was um that this was called the Tulsa race riots initially by all the newspapers for reasons that I'll tell you in just a little bit. But basically it was never a riot. it was not right It was not a race riot. It was a A riot means that there were two sides. Yeah.
00:34:02
Jeff Rogers
And there was definitely one side that instigated this. Okay. So here we are Monday um monday morning, May 30th, 1929, when a 19-year-old African-American boy, Dick Roland, was working at a stand in front of the Drexel building in downtown Tulsa.
00:34:19
Jeff Rogers
He worked as a shoeshiner. He had to go to the bathroom. So he went into the Drexel building to use the one elevator in the building to go to the third floor where the, quote, colored bathroom was. So everybody who was black that had to go to the bathroom had to go to, it was either the third or the fourth floor just to use the bathroom, right?
00:34:38
Jeff Rogers
There on his way to the elevator, he and encountered Sarah Page, a 21-year-old white elevator operator who was on duty. Whether and to what extent Roland and Paige knew each other has long been a matter of speculation.
00:34:53
Jeff Rogers
The two likely knew each other, at least by sight, because Roland would have regularly ridden Paige's elevator on his way up to the restroom. A clerk at Renberg's, which was a clothing store on the first floor of the Drexel, heard what sounded like a woman's scream and saw a young black man rushing from the building.
00:35:11
Jeff Rogers
The clerk went to the elevator and found Paige in a distraught state. Thinking that she had been sexually assaulted, he summoned the authorities. Apart from the clerk's interpretate interpretation of that Roland had attempted to sexually assault Paige,
00:35:29
Jeff Rogers
Many explanations have been given for the incident, with the most common explanation being that Roland tripped as he got onto the elevator and as he tried to catch himself and keep himself from falling, he grabbed Sarah's arm, who then screamed.
00:35:45
Jeff Rogers
There's no written document about what happened. It was just what the lady thought happened and the fact that he ran. Next, Roland did what every single person in his situation would do. He ran home to the Greenwood neighborhood. He told his family that he had tripped over the elevator threshold and accidentally grabbed the white girl, and she had screamed.
00:36:06
Jeff Rogers
Everyone knew that he should lie low for a while. The next day, Roland was arrested at his home by two Tulsa police officers. The Tulsa Tribune then published the front page of a headline. it said, quote, Nab Negro for attacking girl in elevator.
00:36:23
Jeff Rogers
There had been several lynchings recently, so the Tulsa Police Department was concerned enough about this, so they moved Roland from the regular jail to the top floor of the Tulsa County Courthouse for safe safekeeping.
00:36:35
Jeff Rogers
Meanwhile, the Tulsa Tribune's afternoon edition fanned the flames with the headline, quote, to lynch Negro tonight, as an ugly mob began together outside the Tulsa Courthouse.
00:36:48
Jeff Rogers
As Roland sat in jail back at the offices of the Black newspaper, A.J. Smitherman of the Tulsa Star led an impassioned discussion discussion about how to protect how to protect him.
00:37:00
Jeff Rogers
He urged the men in the room to protect Roland and themselves. W.E.B. Du Bois had visited Tulsa in March as the NAACP protested the gruesome lynching of Henry Lowry in Arkansas.
00:37:14
Jeff Rogers
Du Bois had already warned the black veterans of World War one in May of 1919 issue of the crisis that they would be, quote, cowards and jackasses if now the war is over. We do not marshal every ounce of our brain and brawn to fight a st sterner, longer, and more unbending battle against the forces of hell in our own land.
00:37:36
Jeff Rogers
Later that afternoon at the Dreamland Theater, 16-year-old Bill Williams watched as a neighbor jumped on stage and announced, quote, we're not going to let this happen. We're going to go downtown and we're going to stop this lynching.
00:37:49
Jeff Rogers
True to their word, an armed contingent of 25 black men, most of whom were World War I veterans, went to the Tulsa County Courthouse and Led by O.B. Mann of Mann Brothers Grocery Store and Black Deputy County Sheriff J.K. Smitherman, they offered their assistance to Sheriff Willard McCullough, but he persuaded the Black man to leave.
00:38:13
Jeff Rogers
As the white mob reached nearly 1,000 people, a new contingent of about 50 more black men feeling anxious arrived to protect Roland. But they, too, were persuaded to leave at about 10.30 p.m.
00:38:26
Jeff Rogers
Then, as they walked away, according to Scott Elworth's interview with one of the survivors, Robert Fairchild, um There was a bailiff and also he was a failed candidate for sheriff. He grabbed a tall black man's 45 caliber army issue handgun leading to a heated exchange and a shot was fired.
00:38:47
Jeff Rogers
Today, nobody really knows who fired the first shot. But the bailiff was a white man. Yeah. And he grabbed the black man's gun. Then according to several witnesses, all hell broke loose. As the white mob engaged the retreating black men in gun battle, the mob broke into downtown, which was the white-owned pawn shops and hardware stores to steal weapons and bullets.
00:39:12
Jeff Rogers
And now Tulsa law enforcement started deputizing and arming members of the mob. ah White members. Right. There was a person who was disguised, a black man disguised, disguised like he was a light skinned is what the quote is. Black man.
00:39:30
Jeff Rogers
he was at a meeting and he overheard at an ad hoc meeting of the city officials, a plan that of the Greenwood invasion that night. Sheriff McCullough hunkered down in the County courthouse. He kept Dick Roland safe as the mob's fury was aimed at the Negro revolt in Greenwood.
00:39:46
Jeff Rogers
While most mob members were not deputized, the general feeling was that they were un acting under the protection of the government. The fact that after the disaster, none of them were convicted of crimes kind of vindicates that position.
00:40:01
Jeff Rogers
i mean, they might as well all have been deputized because they were acting that way. Because they were white. Yeah. After an all night battle, many residents of Greenwood were taken by surprise as bullets ripped through the walls of their homes in the early hours of the morning.
00:40:16
Jeff Rogers
By planes. Planes with two people, two wings on each side, two people and two people. I want to make that clear. little bit of everything in a biplane.
00:40:28
Jeff Rogers
um Dropped turpentine bombs from the night skies onto the rooftops. This was the first aerial bombing of any American city, American town in U.S. history. Oh.
00:40:41
Jeff Rogers
A furious mob of thousands of white men barged into black homes, killing, destroying, and snatching everything from dining room furniture to piggy banks. Arsonists reportedly reportedly waited for white women to fill bags with household loot before setting homes on fire. They would light the curtains to make the homes burn faster.
00:41:03
Jeff Rogers
Tulsa police officers were identified by eyewitnesses as setting fire to black homes, shooting residents, and stealing. Eyewitnesses saw women being chased from their homes naked, some of them with babies in their arms, as shots were being fired at them.
00:41:17
Jeff Rogers
One of those children fleeing with her mom was seven-year-old Viola Fletcher. She and her siblings will be able to share their stories a little bit later on. Several black people were tied to cars and dragged through the streets of Tulsa.
00:41:33
Jeff Rogers
The black residents of Greenwood did not passively endure the onslaught. One witness said that Greenwood men defended the stone wall, which was the tire tracks. That was their defending point. Like they weren't going to let the mob get past the tire tracks.
00:41:48
Jeff Rogers
And one witness said that the men defended those tire tracks until they exhausted their ammunition. Obi Mann, he was a World War I veteran and a veritable giant, led a valiant fight by sniping the rioters from Mount Zion Baptist Church Bell Tower until the church was engulfed in flames.
00:42:08
Jeff Rogers
A Greenwood legend by the name of Peg Leg Taylor. I'm obsessed with somebody named Peg Leg Taylor. you do love a good Peg Leg. I do. A veteran of the Spanish American. What was your name?
00:42:21
Jeff Rogers
And her Peg Leg... the the The woman. Oh, Virginia Hall. Virginia Hall and her pegs that she named.
00:42:32
Jeff Rogers
um Fuck, it was Osberth? You're so close. Osbert. It was Osbert. Like the St. Osbert. Not Osbert. It was close to that, though. Osferth.
00:42:45
Jeff Rogers
Something. Oswald. No, it was Osbert. Cuthbert. Cuthbert. Yeah. oh that one came out of nowhere. So Peg Leg Taylor was a veteran of the Spanish American war. He was said to have shot a dozen white men from a sniper position on Stan, Stan pipe Hill.
00:43:02
Jeff Rogers
Both of these men survived the conflict. Then the Oklahoma National Guard was called in by the governor to restore order. The governor did this by joining the fight against the outnumbered and outgunned black community.
00:43:14
Jeff Rogers
The guard helped round up and disarm at least 4,000 African Americans, men, women, and children, and then marched them at gunpoint to makeshift detention camps at the Tulsa Convention Center and the McNulty Baseball Park as the mob in the early hours looted their homes.
00:43:30
Jeff Rogers
The looting, although it was hurried, was very methodical, with white mobsters taking furniture, victrollas, and even pianos. Over the course of three days, dead bodies were stacked up on the trucks, and railroad cars were buried in secret around the city by white aggressors. Even afterwards, um a few of the black families had a chance to organize funerals or mourn their dead.
00:43:55
Jeff Rogers
Many black Tulsans simply just disappeared that day. Tulsa's Greenwood Cultural Center said, in the span of twenty four hours thirty fiveve city blocks of black wall street were burned to the ground the white mob blocked firefighters while one thousand two hundred and fifty six homes were destroyed and another four hundred were looted A massive share of people in Greenwood were left homeless. The destruction also included many businesses and community institutions.
00:44:22
Jeff Rogers
Four hotels, eight churches, seven grocery stores, two black hospitals, two candy stores, two pool halls, two Masonic lodges, real estate offices, undertakers, barber, beauty shops, doctor's offices, drugstores, and auto garages.
00:44:36
Jeff Rogers
This was a fucking thriving community. Tulsa Race Massacre Commission reported that 100 to 300 people were killed, though the real number might be higher than that. There's really no way of knowing exactly how many people died.
00:44:49
Jeff Rogers
What we do know is that there were immediately several thousand unaccounted for. and it's difficult to know For sure. How many survived? Because after the massacre, they fled.
00:45:01
Jeff Rogers
People fled that no neighborhood. Among the counted dead was Dr. Jackson. He was noted surgeon endorsed Clinic. among the dead among the counted dead was dr jackson he was a noted surgeon endorsed by the mayo clinic Now, this is one of those stories that for me... Sorry, the Mayo Clinic?
00:45:18
Jeff Rogers
Like, the Mayo Clinic? Uh-huh. This was a black doctor, a black surgeon in 1921. I mean, i bet that man has a story right there. You know what I mean? So, for those of you who are not medical, medical the Mayo Clinic is top tier. It is one of the leading in the country for all things...
00:45:44
Jeff Rogers
Well, they had endorsed Dr. Jackson. And died in this. Late in the battle, as gunfire was sporadic, dr jackson Dr. Jackson walked back into his home after attending to victims with his hands up.
00:45:57
Jeff Rogers
According to the one of the books I read for this, The Burning Massacre, Destruction, and the Tulsa Race Riots, there was a retired judge, John Oliphant, which was also Jackson's neighbor, testified that two young men trained their guns on the physician.
00:46:11
Jeff Rogers
Dr. Jackson said, quote, here I am, take me. And Judge Oliphant said, don't shoot him, that's Dr. Jackson. But it was too late.
00:46:22
Jeff Rogers
Some still unidentified men in khakis who came up frequently in the testimony looked down and asked, are you Dr. Jackson? Learning it was indeed Dr. Jackson on the ground, one of them said, oh shit, those boys have done it now.
00:46:38
Jeff Rogers
Although they had survived one of the deadliest race massacres in the United States, hit in the history of the United States, and their district was demolished, many residents returned. They mustered up the strength to rebuild.
00:46:51
Jeff Rogers
Relief was sent from around the country, from Red Cross, to from churches, from philanthropies, through Tulsa City officials attempted to block all that. The law firm, this is this is key right here, the law firm of Spears, Franklin, and Chappelle provided legal assistance to the victims of the race massacre. The African-American lawyers filed claims against the city of Tulsa and against its new fire ordinance, number 2156, which would prevent most of the victims from rebuilding, and the insurance companies from paying for the damage caused by the riots.
00:47:29
Jeff Rogers
It's not. a riot But it was back then, that's what they were calling it, even as white pawn shop and hardware store owners were compensated for their damages to their shops. The lawyer leading the charge was bulk i mean sorry Buck Colbert Franklin. He was the father of framed historian John Hope Franklin, the late professor emeritus at Duke University. He did not find any evidence that the disaster was premeditated by city officials, but he thought they certainly took advantage of it to the detriment of the black community.
00:48:00
Jeff Rogers
One of um the survivors who I mentioned earlier, the seven-year-old girl, was Viola Fletcher, also known in her later life as Mama Fletcher. At the time of her death, she was the last living survivor of the Tulsa Race Massacre and a super centenarian because she lived to be 111 Shut the fuck up. This is incredible. 111? On May May 19th, Biola Fletcher testified before the United States Congress sharing her firsthand account and advocating for justice for survivors and descendants of the massacre. testified 2021? Honey, she was with it. Okay? She was with it. iwi Oh, my God.
00:48:55
Jeff Rogers
her mother woke up in the family woke the family up and they all fled the family lost everything but the clothes that they were wearing Fletcher told Congress that due to family circumstances after the massacre, she left school after the fourth grade. She returned to Tulsa at the age of 16 and got a job cleaning and creating window displays in the department store.
00:49:17
Jeff Rogers
Biola, are I prefer to think of her as Mama Fletcher i a f because you watch an interview with this woman and she's amazing. She is a Mama Fletcher, huh? Mama Fletcher passed away November 2025.
00:49:30
Jeff Rogers
twenty twenty five Jeffrey. Uh-huh. Jeffrey. She just passed away. ah Her grandson, Ike Howard, said that she died surrounded by family at the Tulsa Hospital. Sustained by strong faith, she raised three children, worked as a welder in a shipyard during World War II, and spent decades caring for families as a housekeeper. And she slept sitting up...
00:49:57
Jeff Rogers
elder Girl was badass, okay? And she slept sitting up with her lights on for the rest of her life. yeah Now that Tulsa has scratched its way into popular culture in shows like The Watchmen or Lovecraft Country, it stands as a symbol of black tragedy and also of resurrection and resilience.
Current Racial Disparities in Tulsa
00:50:17
Jeff Rogers
Writer Ali Lanzana was quick to point out that the scars and hurdles that continued to plague Tulsa The legacy of oklahoma isn the legacy of Oklahoma is that the place remains deeply segregated, even today. North Tulsa, where Greenwood was located, there's not a hospital, and there hasn't been one since the massacre.
00:50:39
Jeff Rogers
The difference in mortality rate in North Tulsa is 11% fewer years than white people in South Tulsa. The first grocery store since the 1940s or 50s is just now under construction in North Tulsa.
00:50:54
Jeff Rogers
Every year, Tulsa Equality Indicator Report comes out, and it reveals and outlines alarming disparities along racial lines from policing to the life expectancy.
00:51:06
Jeff Rogers
As for Sarah Page, the white girl that Roland was accused of assaulting, yeah she made a statement later in 1921 in which she refuted all of the charges against Roland.
00:51:19
Jeff Rogers
She said none of them were true. She denied the version of events printed in the newspaper. As for Dick Rowland, the 19-year-old young man who more than likely tripped and stumbled in the elevator and his accusation of attempted assault was the catalyst for this massacre, because of Sarah's statement, the charges against him were dropped.
00:51:40
Jeff Rogers
He was kept safe in the county jail, released soon after, and he eventually moved to Oregon where he would pass away in 1959. fuck out it was never about them like it was never about them no that was just the the little match that lit that went boom the the tinder pile yeah that just needed a spark oh no About 10 years after the Tulsa race massacre happened in Greenwood, Greenwood was rebuilt. Sorry, you mean the riots, right?
00:52:10
Jeff Rogers
It's riots. Yeah. rights Greenwood was rebuilt. W.E.B. Du Bois visited Greenwood and he said, quote, the scars are still there, but the city is like loud and noisy. It's alive. It believes in itself. Thank God for the grit of black Tulsa.
00:52:27
Jeff Rogers
By the 1950s, Greenwood was once again one of the most vibrant black communities in in any American city. About 10,000 people once again resided there, and it was about 35 square blocks again.
00:52:41
Jeff Rogers
But that
00:52:42
Jeff Rogers
But you said right now the disparities still exist? Like that's the so the statistics you just gave on the the grocery store stores and the hospitals was recent. 1921 happened. Okay. And then they built back. By the 30s, 40s, and 50s, they had their grocery stores. um They were building back. It looked really good. But it my literally my next paragraph More recent history has been less kind to Greenwood. The building of highways and the rezoning of areas for industrial use undermined the area's prosperity in a way that the massacre and fire of 1921 failed to do.
00:53:20
Jeff Rogers
Now it's estimated that only a handful of Black-owned businesses remain in Greenwood. And racial violence didn't end with the Tulsa massacre. Lynchings continued. In 1967, there were more than 150 race riots in the United States. In 1992, race riots in Los Angeles happened after the acquittal of LAPD officers accused of assaulting Rodney King led to 63 deaths and looting.
00:53:48
Jeff Rogers
Between 2020 and 2023, series of disturbances following the murder of a black man named George Floyd by a white police officer in Minnesota. These events led to the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:54:03
Jeff Rogers
Only in 2020, 99 years after the the fact, after the massacre, did the Greenwood Massacre become a part of the Oklahoma school curriculum.
00:54:15
Jeff Rogers
And that is the story of the Tulsa Race Massacre. Really quick, I want to like name my sources for this because there was one article that I really used by Larry Crowe and Tabidi Lewis, and it's the National Endowment for the Humanities.
00:54:33
Jeff Rogers
These two men wrote a phenomenal article. i used the book called The Tulsa Race Massacre, a History from Beginning to End, history.com, Democracy Now, and Tulsa Library.
00:54:48
Jeff Rogers
I think that's such an important story to tell. i think that
00:54:54
Jeff Rogers
today on January 8th, you and I had a conversation about some other shit that happened in in Minnesota. And so when this comes out and mentioning George Floyd, I mean, there's there is nothing that can be said from me about his death, right?
00:55:21
Jeff Rogers
ah You can say rest in peace all you want, but like, God, I wish that it could be different, right? And so January 8th, 2026, Minnesota.
00:55:36
Jeff Rogers
I was shooting there today. is um Minnesota. So yeah, damn. I didn't, i didn' like,
00:55:44
Jeff Rogers
As if George Floyd was not enough of a fucking tragedy and a break in humanity. But I mean, like when you read it, like the the way I researched that story, it just like just keeps happening. It does. just It's just a cycle. I mean, President Wilson was watching Birth of a Nation in the White House.
00:56:09
Jeff Rogers
So I have to say, um
00:56:12
Jeff Rogers
I like when you tell historical stories and I don't know if I have a right to be as angry or hurt or like just kind of choked up as I do.
00:56:24
Jeff Rogers
um but when you tell stories like that, because you have told a handful of them that are so absurdly powerful and like just gut wrenching and racial based it,
00:56:38
Jeff Rogers
it i don't Those to me, it makes me so sad and it makes me so unhappy. and it and it Those are the worst. yeah You did a an extraordinary job. You did. Don't you love Mama Fletcher? ah do. You need to watch an interview with but you know it's just It's wild to me because it's like you have her. She was seven years old. welder.
00:57:03
Jeff Rogers
a welder She became a welder in World War II because you know what? Women had to do what they had to do. But now here's also the thing. Because this happened to her when she was seven and she had to leave school after the fourth grade, she came back at the age of 16 and started doing like... Like like jobs. Real jobs. Yeah. She didn't get to continue her education. She didn't get to, you know... don't know. That just...
00:57:30
Jeff Rogers
You do. I could never tell a story that covers that kind of topic. And you do them very well. And i think the fact that you mentioned specifically, it was never about him tripping in the elevator.
00:57:47
Jeff Rogers
It started with that, but it was yeah it was just somebody had built the fucking pyre and somebody else just needed to throw the match. It was a tinderbox.
00:57:58
Jeff Rogers
He was forgotten about. She was forgotten about. In fact, when I was done with the story, was literally done with the story and I was like, what the fuck happened to them? Where start? I mean, what happened to the The man, the young 19-year-old man that got on the elevator with the white woman.
00:58:15
Jeff Rogers
Because the story ended after that. It was about them. And so there was somebody sub-stack that I went on to. And he actually, he's the one that when I read this said basically they were just the catalyst.
00:58:27
Jeff Rogers
Like there was a tinderbox there already. and Somebody threw the match. It was that it was that moment that threw the match. And you do a good job telling those stories. They're horrible and they are awful. And I hate every single moment of them.
00:58:42
Jeff Rogers
You're welcome. Because of. It's deep. It's dark. It's heavy. And I don't hate them because they're bad stories. I hate them because they are true stories. I hate them because they are still true today. well it fucking burns my ass. I'm going to flip a bitch. And then you're gonna next week, cup pitcht that means turn around, do a 180. Oh, yeah, I know that. And I'm going to come at you with an insane story next week, two weeks from now.
00:59:13
Jeff Rogers
That's my gift to you. You're going to be floored, but in the other direction. Okay. So while I am in, so we're going record this, and this, this insane story next week, but while we are in Egypt, you, the rest of the world will be listening to Jeff. Tell a story that is happy.
00:59:30
Jeff Rogers
um Just insane. And it gets crazier and crazier. And you're going be like... it going to make heart hurt? Uh-uh. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. As long as it doesn't make... Because this whole time, my heart has been fucking aching. That was a dark one. That was a heavy one. Horrible.
00:59:46
Jeff Rogers
Horrible, but fucking story we're telling. It's one of the most important. And that's as much a... That is as much a part of American history as... um this show I watched a show recently called Death by Lightning, which is a president ah Charles Gatteau killing President um Garfield.
01:00:05
Jeff Rogers
That's just as... This story is wait just as Wait, wait, wait. We have President Garfield. Did I make that up? No, you didn't. But we had this conversation and just me laugh. But like...
01:00:18
Jeff Rogers
This story, the reason why wanted to tell it is because this one is as as important as that story. And unrecorded and until. And unrecorded. Recently. No one talked about it. No one said anything. But you know what? Mama fucking Fletcher. She said something. 111 years old. She said something. Yeah. and fuck anyone who tries to silence it. Yeah. Oh, you did a good job. Well, thank you. and I hate you. like That was it for the day. I think we've exhausted it. I hate you for making me feel things.
01:00:49
Jeff Rogers
Feel it. All right. We're done here. Bye-bye. know We're... Hold on. How does it go? We've not done this in a while. It's been three weeks.
01:01:02
Jeff Rogers
We're not here for a long time. for herefo But you know what? Did I do that wrong? It is not a good time. It is not a good time when Jeff tells sad, horribly true and accurate and totally necessarily told stories. But you know what? We're here for it. And that is what he brings to you.
01:01:27
Jeff Rogers
You're welcome. Have a good day. by Welcome to 2026.