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94 - Shanda Sharer
37 Plays2 days ago
Sam shares the devastating and deeply unsettling case of Murder of Shanda Sharer, a crime that shocked the nation and exposed the darkest edges of youth violence.
In 1992, 12-year-old Shanda Sharer was abducted, tortured, and ultimately murdered by a group of teenage girls in Indiana. What makes this case especially disturbing isn’t just the brutality—it’s the psychology behind it. Drawing from research on adolescent violence, group dynamics, and behavioral development, this story explores how peer influence, identity formation, and unchecked aggression can spiral into unimaginable tragedy.
Sam breaks down not only what happened that night, but why—digging into studies on youth violence, gang-like behavior, and the role of environment and psychology in shaping extreme actions. It’s a case that forces a hard question: are monsters born… or are they made?
This one is heavy. And it stays with you.
Visit us on Linktree for the collection of links, Instagram, or email us at jeffandsamshow@gmail.com.
Sources
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9512271/
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-27055-009
https://www.catch-22.org.uk/resources/understanding-violence-in-young-people/
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/virtual-reality/articles/10.3389/frvir.2023.1142241/full
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shanda_Sharer
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-01-31-mn-1053-story.html
https://people.com/shanda-sharer-inside-killing-indiana-girl-burned-alive-11764118
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-gang-definitions
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5215800/
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Interactions
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeffrey.
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. Hi, Sam. How are you? I'm good. How are you, Jeff? I'm good. ah This is us. You're here. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, Audible, iHeartRadio, JeffandSamShow at gmail.com, and on Instagram at the Jeff and Sam Show.
00:00:40
Speaker
And here we are. Listen to us, follow us, rate us, review us, subscribe, tell us what you want to hear, reach out to us, share us with your friends and family.
00:00:51
Speaker
But if we know your family members, don't share us with them because we curse a lot. And this is like unhinged. So we don't want them to know that side of us. Unhinged.
00:01:02
Speaker
yeah new What's new with you?
Weather and Workplace Humor
00:01:04
Speaker
Not a whole lot. No. Sun's starting to come out more often. Oh my God, it's nice outside today. Yesterday was perfect. Today there's like a pretty cold breeze. Yeah.
00:01:16
Speaker
But it's nice in the sun and tomorrow's going to be glorious. What is tomorrow like? Tuesday. Oh. Like nice sunny warm weather? Yeah. Okay, I'm here for it.
00:01:27
Speaker
Oh, I lied. Liar. The temperature drops precipitously. Of course. is it going to snow? No. I almost punched someone. One of our coworkers the other day, I was talking about how lovely it was like outside. He was like, oh, well, it's going to snow tomorrow. And I went, fuck off. And he was like, no, seriously. And I thought he was serious. And I was like, I had so many violent thoughts.
00:01:47
Speaker
And I know it's not his fault, but I genuinely was about to punch him in the throat. He wasn't kidding? He was. Oh. But like, that makes it even
Signature Phrases and Studio Setup
00:01:54
Speaker
worse. Right? Don't fuck with me. Yeah, we've been through this. ah Can we like, just for Christopher.
00:02:01
Speaker
have a lot of them. Yeah, but there's one in particular. He knows who he is. And he's called us on the fact that for the past two shows, we have not said cheers queers. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that.
00:02:14
Speaker
That's wildly disappointing. Last week after we recorded, i was like, oh shit, we didn't say it again. Wow, two times in a row. So let's just right now do it two times, and then we'll do it a third for today.
00:02:24
Speaker
Okay. So we'll we'll just do it for Christopher. Cheers, Queers. Okay, that was one. Cheers, Queers. That was two, Christopher. And here's for today. Cheers, Queers. Okay. Sorry.
00:02:36
Speaker
That was for you, buddy. In the moment last week, I thought, man, I didn't, we didn't say it. Shit. He's going to call me out on it. And he did, didn't he? And he did. Well...
00:02:49
Speaker
I got to fix this. You know, you know i want to I want to say something. There is something new in my life. jeff Jeffrey bought these, um what he calls, portable soundproof studios. And he was describing them. And he was very accurate in his description. ah The picture that you sent did not do it justice. But when I saw these things when i first walked in,
00:03:15
Speaker
It looks like something out of like a um Cartoon Network show, like a gag something or other. like You know like the the clowns at carnivals, how they use those really big inflatable like weapons? That's what this look like. Yes. Well, let give them an idea. it's It's a styrofoam box for the microphones. Yeah, it's it's... And there's a pop filter on the front.
00:03:40
Speaker
But the styrofoam box is bigger than Sam's head. Yes. So we have to like maneuver the microphones in a way that we can actually look at each other and see each other. But it's also putting a whole lot of weight on it. So the arms that we use to hold the microphones, every once in a while, Jeffs will be like, oh So I've got to figure that one out.
00:04:00
Speaker
But until then, i will just fix it. I think that's great. Not a big deal. And you know, this morning I sat down at the computer for to do something and I freaked out because I was like, oh my God, my story. no ah i don't have a story.
00:04:13
Speaker
You have a story. I do. i have a story. So ah for those of you who listened last week, Jeff told anti-Jeff story, basically. And i was shocked and mortified the entire time he was talking. And then the end, I went home and I was like,
00:04:29
Speaker
oh no, he's not okay. Should I have like started that story out last week and I've thought about this with like, this is the story of the death of, you know what i mean? You know, i don't I don't think you had to. i think maybe other people probably picked up on the fact that this was not a survivable thing. I was just really stuck on the whole like Jeff and his survivor story. So I was like, up until that very last moment where you were like, and they pronounced him dead. I was like,
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. No, they didn't. But then they got him out, right? And then they did CPR and then he wasn't dead. They unalived him. He was unalived. Yeah. Yeah, no. Sorry about that. Well, ah you know, just for warning, my story is a typical Sam story and it is Gruesome?
00:05:20
Speaker
Fucked up. Okay. So hold on to your butts, y'all. You ready to dive in? I'm ready. Let's do it.
Gang Involvement and Violence Studies
00:05:27
Speaker
Okay, many studies have have been conducted regarding the association between gang involvement and violence. Although it seems obvious to say, we're just gonna like put it on the record, that there is a proven positive association between gangs and the full spectrum of violent victimization.
00:05:43
Speaker
The association is not limited to adult gangs and violence is just as prevalent, if not more so, in youth gangs. We all have like ideas of what a gang is or what it looks like. Obviously, the first thing that comes to my mind because I'm watching the show right now is the Sons of Anarchy. um And then very real groups like MS-13 or the Bloods and the Crips. And then the old school outlaw groups like Wild West style, Butch Cassidy and Jesse James. Those can all be considered gangs as well.
00:06:14
Speaker
The federal definition used by the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security is, quote, any association of three or more individuals who adopt a group identity in order to create an atmosphere of fear or intimidation. And this can this can be a long-term thing where like this gang has been going on for years or it can be in short stints.
00:06:37
Speaker
So the evolution on what drives gang development shifted in 1992 with Agnew's general strain theory, shifting motivations from just status frustration cited by Merton's original 1938 strain theory to strain driven by emotional and individual factors. So it basically means that gangs can be formed not simply based on like shared social class or soci socioeconomic status and or geographical location, but by self-generated desires like wanting to feel useful or needing to feel like you belong somewhere, right?
00:07:18
Speaker
And Maybe it's just because this is a story that I'm telling, but those factors, I think, are maybe more dangerous than just a group of young kids that live in a bad neighborhood forming a gang. like That, I think, is one thing. But when people are driven by their own desires and their own self-generated motivations, I feel like that's where things get dark and twisty. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So recent studies focus on the evolution of young women in gangs and how it supports that these individuals have higher levels of mental health needs and multiple physical and social needs. Not surprising. Chicks are crazy.
00:07:56
Speaker
In 2017, a study published by the n nih and NIH found that the initial social disadvantages predicted harsh and inconsistent parenting, which then led to social and cognitive deficits, things like conduct problems, which all ultimately led to violent behavior in adolescence.
00:08:17
Speaker
So again, this this term violence is a spectrum. So it includes something like bullying, which I'm going to say as simple as bullying, even though we know that bullying is not simple, especially nowadays, all the way to murder and then everything in between.
00:08:34
Speaker
And again, it can be short term or it can be ongoing. Notable key predictors for young homicide offenders include a dynamic combination of factors. These include abuse and family trauma like our heart just fell over and your wand collapsed.
00:08:49
Speaker
I hate it when that happens. So family trauma, including neglect, um abuse in any form, like physical, emotional, or sexual abuse, and then witnessed domestic violence. um Early behavioral problems and violent tendencies, so the typical animal cruelty, lack of empathy, and then poor emotional regulation.
00:09:07
Speaker
The family environment, so harsh or inconsistent parenting, low and poor economic status, parental criminal conduct, and parental substance abuse. All of those to us from doing this show and from being crime junkies um are familiar because we hear about all of those things when we think of serial killers or serial offenders in adulthood, right?
00:09:31
Speaker
None of them are surprising. With that in mind, you are going to meet a few of the key players in my
Background on Shonda Scherer
00:09:37
Speaker
story today. Okay. Shonda Scherer was born in Pineville, Kentucky in June of 1979 to and Jacqueline, who goes by Jack. Her parents divorced and her mother remarried.
00:09:47
Speaker
they're With Jack, shanra Shonda moved to Louisville, Kentucky with her new husband, um... Shonda attended 5th and 6th grades at St. Paul School and was part of the cheerleading, volleyball, softball. She was really active. She was loved. She was well-liked. In June of 91, Jack divorced again, and she and the family moved back to New Albany, Indiana.
00:10:11
Speaker
Shonda was enrolled initially in Hazelwood Middle School briefly before transferring suddenly to Our Lady of Perpetual Help Catholic School, which just... skeeves me out it has nothing to do with the story but it just it freaks me out our lady of always full yeah while there she was on the basketball team she was kind loving and well liked until she wasn't mary laureen tackett aka laurie was born october 1974 in madison indiana her mother was a devout fundamentalist pentecostal christian what does that mean to you
00:10:46
Speaker
oh Devout fundamentalist. pentecost Pentecostal. Pentecostal. a i know this is probably not right, but to me, it's giving me like snakes in a church vibe.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah. Is that it? Well, yeah, so it's basically like, it's basically everything we think about when we think about like a crazy religious, like controlling mother. Okay. Her dad was ah an ex-felon who worked works in a factory. he was There was really nothing much to be said about him. um In 1989, Lori's mother found out that she was changing when she would get to school. She would change out of her like good girl conservative dress that her mother forced her to wear into Jeans.
00:11:29
Speaker
Ooh. Mm-hmm. So fundamentalist mommy was like, fuck off. hu A fight ensued, and basically her mom almost choked her to death. Social workers got involved, um and the parents agreed to unannounced visits so that like the county could confirm that the abuse was not ongoing. ah Throughout the years, Lori and her mother continued to butt heads because she's now...
00:11:56
Speaker
a budding teen, okay? And her mom's a fundamentalist Christian, so, you know. Clash. But it was like her rebellious phase took things to another level.
00:12:06
Speaker
So Mrs. Tackett, one point, even marched that big old holy ass of hers right over to Lori's friend Hope's house to yell at and condemn her father for buying the girls a Ouija board. She said that the house needed to be exercised and the board needed to be burned. So imagine like crazy mom shows at your friend's house and is like,
00:12:29
Speaker
That's insane. Yeah. So this caused Lori to rebel more. So by the time she was 15, she was obsessed with the occult. In 1991, Lori began self-injurious behaviors, cutting anything to harm yourself, not necessarily with the intent of suicide. um And she started dating a girl who was heavily involved in the occult. so What year was this? 91. Okay.
00:12:54
Speaker
She was quickly, ah so her parents discovered the cutting and she was checked into a hospital. They quickly evaluated her. She was put on antidepressants and then she was discharged. She received a diagnosis borderline personality disorder and admitted to experiencing hallucinations since early childhood, which this is going to be an unpopular opinion because I'm not in the psych world, but having worked in the ER as long as I have and having known as many people in the world as I have, ah when someone's diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, what do you think of?
00:13:23
Speaker
Hard to get along with. Manipulative tendencies towards lying and deceitful behavior, kind of overacting to get attention and to like twist the scenarios, right?
00:13:37
Speaker
So already, God, I hate this chick, right? um hey just a few months after being discharged from that psych facility she dropped out of high school um she bounced around from homes of friends in louisville and new bay albany and then during those months laurie was introduced to a melinda loveless they became fast friends and even when laurie moved back to madison she still spent most of her time in new albany with loveless hope rippy was born in madison indiana as well on in June 1976. Again, not too many details and known about her life except that her parents divorced in 84 and she lived with her mother and siblings in Quincy, Michigan for a few years before returning back to Madison when her parents remarried.
00:14:19
Speaker
She was childhood friends with Lori Tackett and happened to be the friend whose dad reportedly bought the Ouija board. Upon return from Michigan, the girls continued their close friendship against the wishes of Hope's parents who thought that Lori was a bad influence.
00:14:33
Speaker
By age 15, Hope also was engaging in self-harm. Toni Lawrence was born February 1976 and was also close childhood friends with Hope Rippey and Lori Tackett. She had a documented history of abuse by a relative at the age of nine and rape by a peer at the age of 14. The charges against the individual were just a restraining order, like nothing ever came from it. Toni was put into therapy briefly after the rape but did not continue. She began self-harm, she became very promiscuous, and in eighth grade attempted suicide. The final piece to our fucked up puzzle is Melinda Loveless.
00:15:09
Speaker
She was the youngest of three girls, born in October of 75, to Marjorie and Larry Loveless in New Albany, Indiana. Larry was an army veteran who struggled to adjust after his return from Vietnam. He worked odd jobs, he was fired or he quit after short stints, and then he would continue to work odd jobs. Marjorie would also work intermittently throughout the years, and while both parents were working, the family lived in an upper middle class neighborhood. However, the marriage was repeatedly, and by many, described as loveless. Which is really stupid.
00:15:41
Speaker
ah Larry was also described as violent and abusive, distrusting and jealous. He spent any money that he made impulsively intended not to share it with his family. So in 1980, he filed for bankruptcy.
00:15:53
Speaker
Together, the Loveless parents frequented bars and Larry often forced Marjorie to perform sexual acts with his work friends, which she hated. yeah For a brief time, when Melinda was five, Larry and Marjorie gave up the booze and the partying and joined a church where they became heavily involved.
00:16:10
Speaker
Larry became a preacher. Dun, dun, dun. and Marjorie became the school nurse. As a marriage counselor through the church, Larry attempted to rape one of the women he was counseling. And the loveless couple quickly left the church.
00:16:24
Speaker
Very rapidly after their church separation, the family returned to drinking and a swinging lifestyle. Over the years, the abuse worsened. um An event stated that at one point, Larry even took one of his firearms and fired it at the daughters, claiming that he intentionally missed. But obviously, if your dad shoots a gun in your general direction, that's a little startling. yeah um Marjorie attempted suicide multiple times throughout the girl's childhood. So she's got three daughters. She's living this lifestyle that she doesn't want to be a part of anymore. And she multiple times tries to take her own life. And the girls are aware of it.
00:17:02
Speaker
In 1986, Larry beat Marjorie so severely because she refused to allow him to go home with two women from the bar that she was hospitalized. He was actually convicted of battery. There were many reports of Larry molesting teenage family members, including his own daughters. However, never once was Melinda identified and never did she admit to being one of his victims. The other two sisters did, but they could never say that Melinda was part of that as well. Right. In November 1990, Marjorie caught Larry spying on Melinda and a friend. She attacked him with a knife, wounded him. he was taken to the hospital. Marjorie attempted suicide again, and the daughter's called 911. And at this point, it's like, ah Larry then, at this point, leaves, okay? He divorces her, um moves to Florida, which kind of is like an additional slap in the face, right? Right. you're the problem, but you're the one that has the audacity to file for divorce.
00:17:56
Speaker
I just feel so bad for her. So initially he would stay in touch writing letters, etc., but very quickly severed all contact with Marjorie and all three of his daughters. So after Larry left, 15-year-old Melinda began dating 13-year-old Amanda Hebron.
00:18:13
Speaker
One of the things about this story is all of the lesbians in the early 90s in middle of fucking nowhere, Indiana. I'm like, You've got the early ninety s You've got the occult, which is so 90s to me. Yes.
00:18:26
Speaker
I mean, think about it. The craft. Yeah. it's yeah Charmed. Everything. Yeah. Midnight margaritas. Yes. um But yeah, so there's... And then you have all of these like warning signs, right?
00:18:41
Speaker
I mean, they're piling on. They are, and they just keep getting more and more. Yeah. um And you know, it introduces, the story introduces the concept of like groupthink mentality, right? Which again, in itself is danger zone, can be. So um Loveless became increasingly erratic after her father left. She started fighting at school. She suffered from depression, got brief treatment, stopped it, but she was all over the place. um In early 91, she came out to her mother as a lesbian, and her mother was initially furious, even though both of Melinda's older sisters were also both
Melinda Loveless' Jealousy
00:19:17
Speaker
lesbians. um
00:19:18
Speaker
But she eventually accepted it. Unfortunately, as the year progressed, Melinda's relationship with Amanda de deteriorated rapidly. At the beginning of the school year in 91, Amanda Heverin started a fight with the new girl at the school, Shonda Scherer.
00:19:32
Speaker
While serving their detentions for the incident, the girls became very close and actually began exchanging romantic letters. Melinda Loveless found out about Heverin's growing relationship with Scherer and was...
00:19:44
Speaker
And absurdly jealous, like almost disproportionately so, because at that point, Loveless was dating another older girl. Okay, so they weren't dating anymore. But it's one of those, if I can't have you, no one can, right? Yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
So in October 91, Hebron and Cher went to the school dance together. Loveless confronted Cher. They had a verbal disagreement, and that was kind of it. So Cher didn't think anything of it.
00:20:08
Speaker
The new couple was not deterred. ah Later that same month, they attended a festival together. at that, Loveless began openly discussing killing Shonda and even threatened her in public. so how old is Loveless?
00:20:20
Speaker
At this point, she's 15, 16.
00:20:23
Speaker
That's so much for a teenage. guy Yeah. so Shonda's parents grew concerned and they transferred her to the Catholic school in late November. So she's at Hazelwood or whatever it was called, very briefly, meets Amanda. And then her parents are like, this this girl that's involved with Amanda is insane. Like, let's not even do this. So even after Shonda left the school, she continued her relationship with Amanda. And because of this, Lovelace continued to send letters to Hebron with like very explicit and very um detailed death threats against Shonda. Wow. So reportedly, these letters were actually given to the authorities, but nothing came of that.
00:21:09
Speaker
Okay. So on the night of January 10th, 1992, the three girls from Madison, 15-year-old Tony Lawrence, 17-year-old Lori Tackett, and 15-year-old Hope Rippey drove to New Albany to Melinda Loveless's
Intimidation Plan Unfolds
00:21:23
Speaker
house.
00:21:23
Speaker
ah Hope and... Tony were under the impression that they were going to Loveless's house and then going to a concert somewhere far-ish away. Okay. This was the first time that Tackett was introducing Lawrence and Rippy to the 16-year-old Loveless. um Remember, they met while Lori was bouncing around her friend's houses and then... Hope and Tony were her childhood friends. So she's like, come on down, yeah meet my lovely friend, Melinda.
00:21:54
Speaker
So they arrive at the house um and Melinda's like, here, take some of my clothes. i don't know why. So they arrived and they were informed of a change of plans.
00:22:05
Speaker
The girls borrowed the clothes from Loveless then they were regaled of the tale of woe, of why Melinda hated Shonda and how she planned to scare her with a knife. Okay.
00:22:17
Speaker
All because she quote unquote stole her girlfriend, which she didn't. Okay. And now we officially have a gang, right? Four young teens with their own troubled ah childhoods, mental health struggles, and a desire to be accepted and be a part of something. too Right?
00:22:33
Speaker
Intimidate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, yeah So, at this time, Shonda was spending her weekends at her father's house in Jeffersonville. So, Rippy drove them all to Jeffersonville, arriving just before dark.
00:22:45
Speaker
Loveless instructed Rippy and Lawrence, mind you, they're 15, and Loveless is 16, so maybe there's also this, like, it's only slightly older, but maybe there's some version of worshipping her as an older figure, right? So Loveless told Rippy and Lawrence to go to the door, asking for Shonda, and pretending to be friends of Amanda's.
00:23:09
Speaker
They got to the door and they told her that Amanda was waiting for her at a place called the Witch's Castle, also called Mistletoe Falls, which was an isolated set of stone ruins from an old house that was up on a hill overlooking the Ohio River.
00:23:24
Speaker
Shonda told them that she already had plans and said, well, I'm going go do the thing that I had planned. If you want to come back around midnight, like maybe I can do it then. They got back to the car, Loveless was enraged, but she agreed to come back. So in the interim, she and the three other girls actually did go to that concert. ah Lawrence and Rippy kind of got disinterested in the concert, so they were like, we're going go hook up with some people. So they left, took the car while the other two were still at the concert, ok hooked up with some guys, and then reconnected with Loveless and Tackett. So nearly 1230 the morning, the four girls arrived back at Shonda's dad's home. Loveless hid herself under a blanket in the backseat of the car while Tackett and Rippy went to the door this time. Lawrence kind of refused to go and be a part of it because as they were driving back from the concert, Loveless kept making statements, right? Because initially the plan was go to this concert and then the plan changed to, oh she wants to intimidate intimidate this girl that, you know, was a copycat and stole her lesbian lover, etc. But on that drive, she started making statements about doing more than just scaring her. um So by this time, Shonda's father and stepmother were in bed, leaving Shonda downstairs watching TV.
00:24:39
Speaker
When the girls came to the front door, Shonda kind of was like, I don't actually want to go. I'll see her another time. um But unfortunately, she ended up giving in. She went to change her clothes and then followed them out to the car. Once inside the car, she was sitting in the front seat.
00:24:54
Speaker
um Rippy began asking her... what could maybe appear to be like innocent questions about her relationship with Amanda. And then Loveless popped out from under the blanket she was hiding under, ah grabbed a fistful of Shonda's hair and put a knife to her throat.
00:25:09
Speaker
As they drove towards the witch's castle, Loveless grilled Shonda about her sexual relationship with Amanda. Tackett shared that the witch's castle was said to have been home to nine witches who were all burned to death in the house when the townspeople were fed up with their prison. So again, more cult, more eerie stuff. um And this whole time, there is a knife to this 12-year-old girl's throat.
00:25:33
Speaker
That's insane. um And Loveless is just yelling at her, again, intimidating her. They're taunting her, all that kind of stuff. So upon arriving to the witch's castle, Shonda was dragged out of the car inside, sobbing. They bound her hands and her feet with rope. Loveless began teasing her and taunting her, like just being a mean girl at this point. The other girls did join in.
00:26:00
Speaker
Loveless started taking all of her jewelry away, handing it to the other girls kind of as like trophies and prizes, right? They were dancing around her. She was bound on the floor crying hysterically, begging them to let her go. ah They repeatedly threatened her in like a whole bunch of different ways.
00:26:15
Speaker
This is what we're going to do next. is is And they they just got more and more. And there were three of them, there were four of them, and and then one of Yeah, so two 15-year-olds, one 16-year-old, and one 17-year-old abducted 12-year-old. Okay.
00:26:28
Speaker
So um next, Tackett grabbed a T-shirt, set it on fire to scare her, and said that they were going torture her. They said that she was going to be the newest set of human remains in the castle, because one of the legends was that it was built on human bones. After lighting the shirt on fire, the abductors kind of worried that maybe someone saw that from the road, so they decided to pack it up and move somewhere. They drove around with the still-bound and sobbing Shonda. They got lost repeatedly because early 90s, no GPS. Doesn't stop me.
00:26:57
Speaker
um They stopped for directions twice, and while at these gas stations, they subdued Shonda enough to make it so that no one could hear her crying, right? They chatted up boys, like the gas stations that they stopped at, they got snacks. like They're in absolutely no rush, and they're not giving any indication that they have a kidnapped girl bound and gagged in the fucking car. That's insane.
00:27:23
Speaker
So they eventually end up at the woods near Tackett's home in Madison, and Here, Lawrence and Rippy kind of got scared and they were like, we're going to stay back in the car. Tackett and Lovelace dragged Shonda out to an abandoned building in the woods um and they forced her to strip down into her underwear. This is January, okay, in Indiana. it gets fucking cold.
00:27:43
Speaker
Loveless immediately began beating her with her fists first and then began like slamming her head into her knee. um Just shattering her facial bones. Torture. um Very quickly it escalated. Loveless tried to cut Shonda's throat but apparently the knife was not sharp enough so it just left like a shallow gash along her neck and at this point Rippy had come out of the car to see what was going on Loveless told her to hold Shonda down and then Loveless and Tackett took turns stabbing her repeatedly in the chest
00:28:16
Speaker
Then they stra strangled her with a rope until she lost consciousness.
The Brutal Assault on Shonda
00:28:20
Speaker
um They threw what they thought was her dead body into the trunk of the car and then told Lawrence that Shonda was dead. Didn't give her any details, but they get back to the car and there's this dead body and they're like, yeah she's dead.
00:28:32
Speaker
So they drove back to Tackett's house, leaving Shonda's body in the trunk of the car. They went inside, calmly cleaned themselves up. Mm-hmm. ate some snacks, had some drinks, and then they heard some screaming coming from the car. So Tackett picks up a paring knife, walks outside, stabs Shonda multiple times, comes back in again, covered in blood, cleans herself up again. She's like, hey, I can do runes.
00:28:59
Speaker
Do you want me to tell your futures? So she tells the girls futures. And then she's like, why don't we have a seance and ask Shonda how it felt to die? At 2.30 in the morning, Lawrence and Rippy remained behind at Tackett's house as Tackett and Lovelace went country cruising. They were driving around. Shonda was still in the back, continuing to cry and make like a gurgling sound. Yeah, so she wasn't formulating words. She wasn't screaming out for help anymore, but she was still making sounds, all right? Mm-hmm.
00:29:30
Speaker
Tackett got irritated with this. She pulled the car over, opened the trunk. Shonda at this point kind of sat bolt upright, but she was nonverbal really, and she wasn't staring at anyone. her She had blood everywhere.
00:29:41
Speaker
She had obvious wounds. um Tackett beat her with a tire iron until she stopped making sounds. yeah Then Lovelace and Tackett both decided to take turns sexually assaulting her with that same tire iron, both vaginal and anal penetration.
00:29:57
Speaker
And this continued on and off for multiple hours while one was driving around, the other was in the backseat assaulting Shonda and they would swap out. Then they drove back to Tackett's home shortly before the sun rose. They woke the other two girls and cleaned up.
00:30:13
Speaker
Rippy asked about Shonda and Loveless and Tackett provided all of the horrific details of what they had done, laughing the entire time. Tackett then drove all the girls with Shonda's, again, what they thought was dead body um around town looking for what to do.
00:30:29
Speaker
Lauren's kind of... refused to take part in anything else at this point. They drove to a gas station, filled the car up, got a two liter bottle of soda, poured the soda out, filled that up with gas. um At this point, ah Shonda, they realize that Shonda is not dead because she's making noise again. And Rippy, who had stayed out of the the and driving around torture, started taunting Shonda, saying, you know, you're not looking so hot now, are you? Okay.
00:30:57
Speaker
So they arrived. She's fucking 12 years old. 12. She has spent the last, what, eight hours being beaten? Yeah. So, and she's still in just her underwear at this point. Clothes gone, burned, nothing. Like, she's just in underwear again in January. This is like the worst version of groupthink. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:31:17
Speaker
So they arrive at an isolated location that Rippy had chosen. Lawrence remained in the car, again refusing to be a part of it, but kind of unable to separate herself. Rippy and Tackett wrapped the still living Shonda in a blanket.
00:31:33
Speaker
And then they carried her and dragged her over to a gravel road. They doused to the blanket in gasoline and set her on fire. They drove away, but then Loveless wasn't convinced that Shonda was actually dead, so they returned to her burning body and poured more gasoline, focusing on face and hands. Then they drove to a McDonald's for a lovely 9.30 breakfast, and they sat and they laughed about how Shonda's burned body resembled the sausages they were eating. What the fuck? At this point, Lawrence reportedly calls a friend and is like freaking out on the phone about what has happened.
00:32:10
Speaker
Nothing ever came of that. The friend didn't do anything. Lawrence didn't leave. She just had a total breakdown on the phone and then nothing's really mentioned about it. Yeah. Tackett dropped Rippy and Lawrence off at their homes and then went back to her house with Loveless. um Loveless called Amanda, told her what had happened and said, I'll be by later to pick you up, honey. Amanda was like, yeah, right. So then a friend, they they head to Loveless's house and then a friend of Loveless's named Crystal Wathen goes to her home to visit.
00:32:41
Speaker
And at that point, they tell Crystal all of what they had done. And again, she's like, right, sure. She didn't believe That's crazy. No. So then all three of those girls drive to Amanda's house to pick her up.
00:32:53
Speaker
And they told the story again with every gory detail. Again, Wathen and Amanda were not believing what was happening. But Tackett took them around to the back of the car, opened the trunk. They saw the pools of blood and the bloody handprints all over the place. Amanda immediately asked to be taken home, freaking out, trying to keep it together, but she's freaking out. Mm-hmm.
00:33:13
Speaker
They agree to drop her off. And as they drop her off, Loveless kisses her and begs her not to tell anyone. Amanda agrees not to tell anyone. So later that morning, two brothers who were completely uninvolved in this story, okay, they're out driving down a country road to find a place to hunt.
Murder Investigation Begins
00:33:31
Speaker
And they notice a body on the side of the road.
00:33:33
Speaker
They initially think, weird, what's a mannequin doing here? But what's the rule? Never a mannequin. Correct. So okay they pulled out. They ah immediately realized that it's not only a body, but it is the badly burned body of a child.
00:33:48
Speaker
A child. At 1055 on January 11, 1992, the brothers called the police. State Trooper David Kam and Jefferson County Sheriff Buck Shipley began the investigation.
00:33:58
Speaker
Their initial findings determined that she was placed in a location and kind of posed in such a way and you could still kind of see... that her legs were bound, um and that there was no clothing fabric anywhere, um that this was like a very intentional thing to do. yeah murder um So they're like, this is nobody in... in our hometowns would do this this isn't local like somebody from the outside maybe it's drug related like a warning or something right so her face and hands had been burned worse than any other parts of her body in an attempt to obscure her identity and delay or prevent any recognition uh the officers um immediately noted that she was found in what is called the pugilistic stance do you know what that is don't know
00:34:48
Speaker
So that is arms outstretched and clenched fists, which is a natural reaction of the body when you die by burning. Apparently it's like the contraction of, it's what happens when you're not fully unconscious or sedated. Yeah.
00:35:06
Speaker
So, ah earlier that morning, Shonda's father... And let's just take a minute to realize, like, the four other girls... you know, we heard a lot about this, like, bad childhood, right? But the only thing Shonda's life that was negative or weird or abnormal... Was the divorce of her parents, but they were both living close enough She was spending time with her dad spending time with her mom, right? So these are parents that loved her and cared about her. Okay, so Shonda's father's freaking out. She's not home. He can't find her anywhere So he spends the next couple hours calling everyone he can think of friends neighbors looking all over the place And by 1.45 that afternoon, he still couldn't locate her. So he called Jack and they filed a missing persons to the Clark County Sheriff's. Okay. So the officers that found the body are state trooper and the what Jefferson County.
00:35:55
Speaker
Yeah. Jefferson County. Are they talking to each other? No. So there's a missing person, ah a missing child report out in Clark County Sheriff by the clark Clark County Sheriff's. So the investigation continues. No word on where Shonda is or,
00:36:11
Speaker
anything right so at 8 20 that same night um tony lawrence and hope rippy walked into the jefferson county sheriff's office with their parents apparently and lawrence had had a complete historical or hysterical meltdown um and somehow her moral compass flickered on briefly i guess so at home she admitted to her parents everything that had happened that she knew right um And she said that Hope had
Confessions and Consequences
00:36:41
Speaker
been there. So Tony's parents contacted Hope's parents and they're like, we're fucking going to the police station. They dragged their daughters there. um And over the course of the next hour or so, the two teenage girls are like bumbling through the story, frantically giving details, talking over each other. Eventually it comes out that the burned body that had been found earlier that morning was Shonda Sher. They did name the two other girls involved and briefly described what had happened the previous Also, they're teenage girls. It's probably so easy to get them to tell.
00:37:13
Speaker
you know what I mean? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she fell apart when she went home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um So an inter-county investigation was conducted, and they were able to match the missing persons report from Clark County to the body, which had been identified by dental records.
00:37:30
Speaker
By January 12th, all four girls were in custody. They arrested those two immediately and then went after Tackett and Lovelace. The prosecution immediately made it known that they were going to try these children as adults. Two 15-year-olds, one 16-year-old, and 17-year-old. To avoid the death penalty, they all accepted plea bargains.
00:37:52
Speaker
Lori Tackett and Melinda Loveless were sentenced to 60 years in the Indiana Women's Prison in an Indianapolis for the charges of murder, criminal confinement, and arson.
00:38:02
Speaker
um For years, Loveless' attorney tried every avenue of appeal, used every kind of bullshit excuse and pathway to try to get her out or released or retried. um Her appeals were repeatedly denied. In...
00:38:16
Speaker
2018, Tackett was released and served ah one year of probation after. Loveless was released in 2019. Oh, shit. Rippy was sentenced to 60 years with 10 years suspended sentence for what they claimed were mitigating circumstances. um Basically, her childhood and her drama lessened her charges and she was less involved in what had happened. Plus 10 years of medium supervision probation. After an appeal, the judge reduced the sentence to 35 years. She was released in 2006. Wow.
00:38:49
Speaker
wow Lawrence, who left before Shonda was actually set on fire and cooperated early and fully, was allowed to plead guilty to one count of criminal confinement with a maximum of 20 years. She served nine years and was released in 2000.
00:39:04
Speaker
The case shook the town. This is like a picturesque little spot. There's like historical homes and beautiful views. Stuff like that could never happen here. Cozy bed and breakfast, antique shops down Main Street, like small town USA, yeah. um But now they're home to four teenage murderers.
00:39:23
Speaker
So we talk about the ripple effect a lot, so here's where we go. Shonda's father died from complications associated to alcoholism in 2005. In an interview about him, Jack said he was so distraught by his daughter's murder that he did everything he could to kill himself besides actually putting a gun to his head. That man drank himself to death.
00:39:42
Speaker
He definitely died of a broken heart. In 2012, Jack indirectly had her first contact with Melinda Loveless. The organization Indiana Canine Assistance Network program trains and assigns dogs to individuals with disabilities. melinda loveless had been working with that program for many years um jack in 2012 donated a dog named angel in shonda's name to that program um and here's where like people gave their opinions after they found out what she had done they were shocked that she was doing something like supporting this organization that loveless was a part of or They all had their opinions, right? So Jack's reaction was simple.
00:40:26
Speaker
She said, quote, it's my choice to make. She's my child. If you don't let good things come from bad things, nothing gets better. And I know what my child would want. My child would want this. That's amazing.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah. um Since the case concluded, um it has been the focus of countless books, shows, plays, movies. Some of them have been like dramatized, fictionalized, but some of them are true to fact. There were poems and artwork dedicated to Shonda's memory. And this was...
00:40:56
Speaker
Before Stephen Scherer died, he and Jack both um filed a lawsuit to guarantee that none of those four girls would get any money that was made in the making of any of these things. Did they win?
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um So again, let's kind of roll back to where we are here. So multiple different points throughout this time period. She was abducted at 1230 from her home. Her body was found at 10 a.m. m the next day.
00:41:27
Speaker
The girls were eating breakfast by 930. Okay. so You know, you have all of these girls together. Lawrence clearly was hesitant. um Rippy was hesitant and wasn't hesitant and then was and back and forth. and There were times where they were left alone, where they could have left Lori Tackett's house to tell someone. um And then they did tell some people and nothing happened. You know, like... right but I'm sorry, but if someone told me like, hey, I just, I was a part of like a group murder of this 12 year old. I'd be like, let me, let me just mention this to the cops. I'll be right back. I'm going to go call somebody. Yeah.
00:42:07
Speaker
So the backgrounds of all of these offenders hold like all of the hot button issues that we talked about. Right. um And we know the predictors of of violence and homicide. um So does that excuse their actions?
00:42:19
Speaker
and No. No. Like, you know, we we talk about adult serial killers, serial rapists, serial offenders. When they have these same types of traumatic childhood childhoods, like, we don't give them a pass. We don't try them differently. We don't, you know, there's... Well, plenty of people have, like, borderline personality disorder.
00:42:38
Speaker
They don't commit crimes, you know. People are abused as kids. They don't grow up to commit crimes. There's... No. Yeah. They knew what they were doing. It was a group think, you know...
00:42:50
Speaker
So the idea of this tight-knit group, which when they decided to combine forces, became a gang of vulnerable young girls. They got together and they did heinous, worse heinous things. Like this was not just, again, not to use the word simple, but this wasn't a simple murder.
00:43:09
Speaker
This was hours of torture on a 12-year-old child because one girl said that she stole her girlfriend. And also it was them saying, them telling somebody and saying, don't tell. So they knew what they were doing. You know?
00:43:24
Speaker
i mean, yeah there's no excuse. Yeah. Don't care. um And one of the key concepts is that it came out later that um before Loveless and Tackett decided to get Rippy and Lawrence involved, Tackett knew what the plan was.
00:43:40
Speaker
Melinda Loveless had every intention of causing severe harm to this child and then killing her. There was no doubt in her mind that that's how the night was going to end. And Tackett knew that. So they told Lawrence and Rippy, like, we're just going to go scare her, right? But Tackett is aware of what's actually going happen.
00:43:56
Speaker
Okay. um And then one of the girls um was like testified that as loveless watched shonda burn uh she said she saw the quote glee at watching her rival die glee okay ah laurie tackett again was aware of this she dragged her childhood friends into this um but they went along with it uh they witnessed the violence and they realized the way the night was going to go um but their willingness to participate in such hateful things is kind of startling still right um so again is it simple to explain it as like oh they had this really traumatic upbringing and they wanted to fit in and they didn't want to lose a friendship and they didn't want to become the next target like does that i guess i've never been in a situation like this you know like My childhood was very different. My adolescence was very different. um
00:44:53
Speaker
I mean, we got crazy and rowdy, but there was never violence involved, you know? No, not familiar. There's ah the 2007 Steinberg-Monahan article or research study showed that susceptibility to peer influence peaks in mid-adolescence. So that is 15, right? I mean, I believe that. But yeah, they knew what they were doing and they did a horrible thing. Yeah, um but this peaked period of susceptibility contributes to the greater tendency to take risks and commit crime. So, I mean, there are research studies that prove, like, they're susceptible, and for whatever their self-generated motivations are, right, they're more likely to go along with things that they typically would not have during this period of time where maybe that makes them even more vulnerable. But I think we all did that.
00:45:44
Speaker
We all went along with things that maybe we shouldn't have had done at that age. Did you kill anybody? Never. Okay. I mean, you know, that's like not even a thought. so yeah Oh, I mean, i I joke about it all the time, but like I have never genuinely considered murdering someone. I mean, we all did shit we shouldn't have done.
00:46:03
Speaker
That's fair. But like, and then we had a group mentality at some point. Everybody did. Yeah. Because you're part of a group. You're having fun. You're doing crazy stuff. We're susceptible. We're peers. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, but no, they, and had they robbed a bank, that would have been one thing, you know, how they robbed a convenience has they robbed a convenience store, stolen some M&Ms. That would have been something, but like what they did was heinous. Heinous. Nothing excuses that.
00:46:28
Speaker
Okay, so what about Amanda Heverin and Crystal Wathen, the two who were told about the murder after the fact, and Amanda was like, I want to go home. And then when her crazy ex-girlfriend told her, asked her not to tell, she didn't.
00:46:43
Speaker
And Crystal didn't say anything either, you know? Yeah. It didn't come out until like the trial period and the investigation. um So do these girls... who are now all free, um feel regret, remorse, shame for what they did to a child?
00:47:01
Speaker
Do they understand the magnitude of their actions and how it rippled out? Do they understand what they did to that family and the town? Are they capable of those types of feelings? Doesn't matter because they got out. Shonda's mom was quoted saying, these girls were not born murderers. Something made them capable of this.
00:47:19
Speaker
The things that happen to children that serve as these predictors that we know and we can recognize, we have countless stories about, oh, if this happens, this could potentially happen. and Like, here's your red flags, right? um Of adolescent violence and homicide are undoubtedly horrific. Like what these kids endured when they were children There's no excuse for how their parents behaved and how they were treated.
00:47:42
Speaker
No doubt about that, right? And what they have to endure, what all children that go through this have to endure is really heartbreaking. But the idea of having to just accept that age-old violence begets violence thing, that kind of just doesn't sit right. um And as you brought up, you know, every child who has ever been abused, mistreated, neglected, they don't all turn into killers. They don't all do things like this. um So how did they overcome it?
00:48:09
Speaker
How did they get past all of those things? How did they compartmentalize that or therapize that away or process it in such a way that didn't turn them into fucking monsters?
Adolescent Violence and Rehabilitation
00:48:20
Speaker
Since then, since they come committed the crime? No, like the ones that don't turn into the monsters. Like how do how do they endure the same stuff that these girls did? because i kind of feel like that was like um a bad idea, bad intentions, and then you have a group that joined along for the ride, came along for the ride. And it was fueled by that. It was a perfect storm. So I think the key for me is the intention part, right? Yeah. Is it wasn't spontaneous. It wasn't like, oh, they're driving they're driving down the road because they're having a girls' night and then they see Shonda walking down the street and... Well, it wasn't spontaneous for Loveless. Exactly. That's the thing. So her, i think I have the most issue with... But for the other ones, it was like oh, we're They were dragged along. But also maybe not Tackett.
00:49:10
Speaker
Tackett was also, she was a 17-year-old at this time, okay? Yeah, she's the oldest, yeah. she knew what loveless intentions were before this happened. so but But Hope and Tony, like, they were there, they got caught up, and they just didn't do the right thing. Yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
um not a single one of the girls served anywhere near to their full sentence right 60 years at most i think loveless served 26 years and that was the maximum that any of them served right what's she doing now out of the 60 years it's hard to find information uh and the brutality of their crime speaks to like an astonishing level of cruelty and evil, right? I mean, that's just something that's ingrained. So how much of what happened to Shonda was nature and how much of it was nurture or lack thereof in this case, right? Because like we all know the the biological, the environmental, the social aspects of personality development. But like this seems like a very extreme reaction to having your girlfriend taken from you, not even taken from you. You weren't dating anymore. And she's 12 or 13.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, Shonda was 12. um So when we were in Denver at CrimeCon, do you remember the session that we went to regarding Daniel Marsh?
00:50:30
Speaker
Remind me. 15-year-old boy. um Not only did he kill his down-the-street neighbors and elderly couple. yeah, yeah, yeah. He planned it so meticulously that he duct taped his shoes. There was not a single bit of forensic evidence in it.
00:50:47
Speaker
and And he stabbed them like a total of 187 times or something like that. And then tattooed those stab wounds on his own body. So like all of this.
00:50:58
Speaker
Right. 15 year old kid. He it was in the state of California. He was tried and as an adult because of the brutality of it. um But then California changed their laws regarding children being tried as adults. So then he did the TED talk from prison. Remember? And he was like, I'm a healed man. Like, I'm not a bad person. I'm not evil. Fuck you, guy. Right. Yeah. I think that there are some people who are, i think, have more of a capacity for, think that there's like a brewing inherent evil in some people. You know, like I don't think that there is. Shonda's mom, bless her, she she took this and she went in the absolute most angelic way she could. And she has handled this very well. But I think that there are people who are,
00:51:44
Speaker
bad and then you add bad circumstances so you have the biological like already brooding because someone who was born bad but in good circumstances can be rehabilitated can find outlets can find ways to manage or just make different choices right exactly because it's about processing your your emotions and choosing to do not the thing that you want to do which is murder people or kill animals or set shit on fire right it's I'm so angry. How do I change this? And yeah, like your immediate gut reaction is like murder, but you don't do it. Then there's like the people that were born with an absence of empathy or, you know, and I think I go to like, in my in my mind, I go to Jeffrey Dahmer. Like he was not, he was, his childhood situation was not horrific.
00:52:36
Speaker
And, you know, i the he just was born without something, and something that we were born with maybe, you know, that's where I go though. Like he is an example of like, yeah. Born we and then monster.
00:52:49
Speaker
Exactly. Because, you know, and not every serial killer or serial rapist or whatever has these predictors, you know, like, yes, it increases your likelihood, but also you could have the best fucking childhood ever and still turn out to be just a shit bag. And in that instance, you have to think there's a biological fucking problem. It is you who who you are yeah completely from your genetic makeup.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think in this situation, maybe with Loveless, there was something that she was not born with, maybe, or born with. I don't know. But add in the the cult thing, add in the 1990s cult situation, add in the group mob mentality that happened, and it just snowballs, right? So it's less about what she was born with or without.
00:53:35
Speaker
It was all of the worst circumstances that you could put. Yeah. on someone who had that upbringing and who also potentially was born without one of the things that we need to stop ourselves from all becoming murderers, right?
00:53:52
Speaker
So we have previously in some of our um stories talked about like the developments in the research and education murderers.
00:54:03
Speaker
and we heard about this also at in CrimeCon, with adolescent violent offenders, again, on that spectrum, whether it be robbing people, mugging people, whatever it may be, to murder, they are they're changing the justice system reaction to that into more of this like transformative rehabilitative process, hoping to foster this more of a curative instead of a punitive type of reaction to what they've done. Because again, the research that shows that you have these red flags in childhood and these circumstances that build and build and build, and you don't have the resources to learn how to manage that
00:54:46
Speaker
increases your adolescent violence. um And then there's also studies that prove that those violent responses do decrease with age. Okay, so yes, overall, there there has been generalized research done that says that you can have a shit childhood, you can be tortured and abused, and then you can turn into a violent gang-affiliated homicidal little fuck. And then Yes, naturally, as you age, you are going to have less impulsivity. You are going to be able to control those choices more and think before you act. And again, your susceptibility also decreases.
00:55:29
Speaker
If I were to tell you right now, like, hey, let's go fuck somebody up, like, you're not going to give him into peer pressure.
Trauma-Informed Care Approach
00:55:34
Speaker
Like, if 10 people came in and they were like, hey, like, we should, we should kill this person, like, none of us would be like, yeah, let's do it. We'd be like, sure, sure, sure. I'm going but also going to call the cops on you, you know? um So the the term trauma-informed care is um a relatively new concept. In 2023, they shifted towards that, um hopefully reshaping how we recognize, understand, and intervene for those that have experienced what we call adverse childhood events. um
00:56:07
Speaker
And then maybe the survivors of childhood abuse, et cetera, will lean more towards being thrivers. You know, like they didn't just survive it. They have become better. They have broken all of those norms. And maybe one day the norm will be that this rehabilitative process has worked as a proactive thing instead of a reaction to a violent crime committed but 1990 that was not there and so 12 year old Shonda Sher was tortured for 8 hours and then burned to death That one was bad.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah. Her mom knew it. A rock star. Superhero. Yeah. Yeah. And I was thinking when you were telling me this, imagine, so that was 1991. Imagine if that situation had played out today, which ends somewhere it has, I'm sure.
00:56:59
Speaker
But the Snapchat, the TikTok videos, it would... this The research that I did for this, I mean, these are all my sources. like i There's so many sources because the world has completely changed. yeah you know And the advancements of um social media and cameras everywhere, those influences changed. already made a lot of things worse in terms of cyber bullying and all that kind of shit right however in the uk there has actually been a three percent decrease in adolescent violence over the past three years um and they are really heavy on pushing this rehabilitative trauma-informed like response um and again targeting before who um but again you know you you have certain communities that are never going have access to that like right bumfuck middle of nowhere is never going to be able to be like oh let me read this article on how to trauma informed care how to recover from my dad beating me to near death or firing a gun at my head Yeah. So there's a lot of excuses for all four of those girls. um
00:58:13
Speaker
And again, all of them had suffered their own adverse childhood events. But they did a horrible thing. Yeah. So that kind of just like wipes it out. Yeah, and I mean, that's that's one of the things that always kind of like gets me the wrong way because even it's the same with any any like murder type thing, right? Is you have a look at the you have to look at the crime, right?
00:58:37
Speaker
if i accidentally killed someone in a hit and run, went to jail for manslaughter. um That is very different than me going, intentionally seeking someone out and brutalizing them in a way like this. So yeah, sure, maybe they were rehabilitated, but how is it possible that you can say that the 26 years that Loveless served or the nine years that Rippy served is is okay when 12 year old Shonda died in a horrendous way you know yeah so I'm I'm always kind of I'm not really torn with it I'm I always just kind of lean more towards like they should never have gotten out they should have to live with what they've done forever and but they're not there i wonder but that just makes me wonder like how they are today what they're doing today Yeah, but it's like the Ken and Barbie murders. When she got released from prison, she like changed her name. She went and got married to a a successful guy and had kids, and like she was living like this wonderful life, and yet multiple people died be in horrible ways because of her.
00:59:46
Speaker
And then she had the audacity to be like pissy when someone identified her, and she started getting media coverage again. Like, come on. Fuck you. Fuck off. Fuck you, and I hope your kids find out what you did. Which they will. And hate you. They will. Forever.
00:59:58
Speaker
So that's the story of the brutal murder of Shonda Sher. Poor girl. Yeah. The rock star mom. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. We're going to end it there.
01:00:10
Speaker
That was a good, that was a horrible story. Story worth telling. Story worth telling. Shonda. Shonda. Shonda. Shonda, 12 years old. God damn. I'll tell you what though. There was the, the research brought like Bandera, Bandera's theory of like learning and like the Bobo dolls and like learned violence. And I'm reading all of these and I'm like,
01:00:34
Speaker
hate I all of this. so fascinated with mob mentality. Groupthink mob mentality, that fascinates me. i mean, it's but it's crazy that it's something that we all know. yeah Like everyone knows it, even if you're not in.
01:00:49
Speaker
Even if you don't know the words. Yeah. You know the the idea of being in a large group or even a small group and like how it shifts your behaviors, but people still can't overcome it.
01:01:02
Speaker
Nope. You know? Okay. Well, what a good job you did. What a horrific story. Yeah. Okay. So on that note, Alan, thank you for fixing this. Jeff, thank you for these cone of shame.
01:01:15
Speaker
My thanks. These are so big. They really do look like a prank. I know. But I think they're going to be good. I mean, we'll find out. That said, we're here for a long time.
01:01:27
Speaker
Not a good time. Bye.