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90 - Ruth Ellis and MKUltra
54 Plays1 month ago
Jeff tells the story of Ruth Ellis, an African-American LGBTQ+ rights activist and one of the oldest surviving openly lesbian women, living to the age of 101. Though she considered herself ordinary, her quiet courage, lifelong advocacy, and support of Detroit’s queer community made her extraordinary. From operating one of the few safe gathering spaces for LGBTQ+ people in the mid-20th century to inspiring generations of activists, Ruth’s legacy is one of resilience, dignity, and unapologetic authenticity.
Sam shares the story of Project MKUltra, an illegal human experimentation program designed and carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency during the Cold War. The program sought to develop techniques and drugs that could alter human behavior, including experiments involving LSD and other substances—often conducted without the knowledge or consent of participants. Decades later, declassified documents and testimony revealed the disturbing scope of the project and its profound ethical violations.
Visit us on Linktree for the collection of links, Instagram, or email us at jeffandsamshow@gmail.com.
Sources
Jeff’s Sources (Ruth Ellis):
- https://www.globalsociety.earth/post/a-century-of-courage-activism-and-legacy-ruth-c-ellis
- https://bentley.umich.edu/news-events/magazine/living-with-pride/
- https://pridesource.com/article/how-ruth-ellis-inspired-my-early-activism-helping-queer-at-risk-youth
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Ellis_(activist)
Sam’s Sources (MKUltra):
- MKULTRA: How the CIA Used the Cold War to Commit Horrors on US Citizens by Dawson M.
- https://safe.menlosecurity.com/doc/docview/viewer/docNBFC8F817A722e7b2e98174f84e8f35b0224aae7515b4ca0358577a181726d9320a24538f2a6f
- https://research.unc.edu/human-research-ethics/resources/ccm3_019064/
- https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/dnsa-intelligence/2025-10-30/top-secret-testimony-cias-mkultra-chief-50-years-later
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, Samantha. Hi, Jeffrey.
00:00:25
Speaker
And welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff and that is Sam. I'm Sam. That's me. She's Sam. That's Sam over there across the table from me. Did face on the microphone when you leaned forward? Honey, I always hit my face on this microphone.
00:00:39
Speaker
Unless going like this, to clean out your ears. And then I try to scratch my ears with these big headphones on and it turns out that's impossible. You make the same face every time you do it also. Like you're half surprised that it's there, but also confused. And then why is my finger not touching my ear? Why is it not touching my ear? Hole.
00:00:59
Speaker
so yeah Welcome to our show. This is us. You know, this is us. This is us. And anybody... So, here's the thing. Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio. You can find us anywhere you get your podcasts. You can tell your friends about us. You can tell your family about us. Spread the word. We're here. We're queer. We're trying to tell you stories.
00:01:20
Speaker
um Look, that was such a good little run. know. I didn't fuck it up. You're feeling frisky. I'm feeling frisky. i just had... Oh, yeah. I'm feeling frisky. just had a whole fjall. Fjall. I had a fjall. Have you ever had a fjall? I do love a good fjall. A fjall is where it's at.
00:01:40
Speaker
A fjall helps you get through the day. I'm just like watching you eat those french fries from McDonald's. I mean, they're just not like... Oh, yeah. I'm not feeling it. And so that's why I'm picking through them trying to find the ones that are not like sad, soggy little like...
00:01:55
Speaker
so Do you know, did I tell you what I had? um i worked on a Friday, like a couple of weeks ago and I got off at 7 p.m. and I had to go get gas. First of all, like my ah little,
00:02:11
Speaker
you know, the full and empty, the little bar thing? yeah What's the word? The meter. yeah tells you where you' It was like relaxed on the e ah It was getting a tan. It was like, hands thrown back. Like, I literally have nothing in me right now. I just started getting so sweaty thinking about that.
00:02:32
Speaker
And ah so after I left work, I stopped and got gas. And I was like, okay, getting and gas. Like the one on base? No, the one somewhere else. And so as I was getting gas for the car, i saw Burger King.
00:02:52
Speaker
Did I already tell you this? And it has been ages since I had Burger King. So I was like, hell yeah. I need a Whopper with cheese.
00:03:04
Speaker
i wanted to have bacon. Bacon makes everything better in my opinion. Bacon makes the world go round. And then i'm like, i want a Whopper with cheese, medium combo, with the fries, and then a Diet Coke.
00:03:19
Speaker
And then I was like, the fuck did I say a Diet Coke for? ah And as I was about to say, oh just regular Coke. just He said, you want a Diet Coke? I said, yeah, Judgy. Did you say that out loud? No. in I said, yeah.
00:03:33
Speaker
And then I was like, Judgy? Judgy. He was kind of Judgy, but I kind of loved him. So I had my Whopper with cheese and bacon. That's good. oh it Did it hit the spot? Did it tickle your fancy? Tickled it.
00:03:46
Speaker
Tickled the fancy. Melted your Yeah. It was so good. That's awesome. No regrets. Sometimes. With that Diet Coke. No regrets. Made you feel better. Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah. No, I mean, yeah. No. This is this is not really where I'm at, but.
00:04:02
Speaker
You need an air fryer. Too bad I burned mine on the stove. No.
00:04:09
Speaker
ah sorry Too bad I completely melted my air fryer. I still can't believe that your stove wasn't ruined. No, and it looked like it was gone. I swear to God. i was like, oh. What, that smell?
00:04:23
Speaker
And then you scratch it, and it's like, oh. It goes back to normal. Completely back to normal. Crazy. Air fryer, on the other hand, went to a cemetery. Indeed. Indeed. To a cemetery. How are you?
00:04:36
Speaker
I'm good. I'm tired. did you take a nap? I did a little one, yeah. Hell yeah. um But, you know, an hour and a half, little snooze isn't quite going to get me where I need to be. It'll get you somewhere, though. Yeah. i just Hey, it got me here.
00:04:52
Speaker
i did not. I got off at five, came home, and... Did your fall. did my pho and then did the therapy because I had therapy at six and i told her at the beginning i was like she kind of felt my vibe I said you are getting me after four days of working and I'm exhausted and she said ah she's amazing she said oh you know what don't worry about it we'll keep it light and fluffy today that's all we need to do Did you tell her that you haven't been journaling? Told her I, and I said, let me tell you something.
00:05:26
Speaker
She said the journal. I said, absolutely. i did not get a journal. i did not journal anything. i told her about me giving you that journal that I had had for four years. hilarious that just, what was that, weeks after you give that to me and you're like, I never journal. She asks you to journal. And I told her, I said, like, I have the intention. the intention is there. It's just the follow through. you know what I mean?
00:05:51
Speaker
Like follow through. this I can't. Yeah. ah You have the plan without intent, actually. i have the, um, is that true? Honestly, can I be honest with you? i have no fucking idea.
00:06:04
Speaker
we were When we ask those questions, I'm like, what does this mean? How does this one differ from that one? i do. Do you never do that? All the time. Every time I ask those questions, I'm like, I don't even know where they fall.
00:06:21
Speaker
no I don't know which one intent and which one is not. um I think I have the intentions to... This is our therapy session. I want to thank you for being my therapist momentarily. i think that what I have is the intention to journal.
00:06:38
Speaker
Right? Because they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And I got them. I got so many goddamn intentions. But the actual pen to paper part... Evades you. Evades me. I can't force myself to sit down...
00:06:54
Speaker
and write the shit and she laughed and she's like look she said i will be here in two weeks and i will try to hold you accountable again in two weeks do not worry about it and i was like thank you you're not mad at me she's like no come on she's like look you'll get there it's okay i said okay i have the intention to journal i'm gonna do it god darn it god darn it i'm gonna do it
00:07:26
Speaker
Why does that sound weird? Say that again. God darn it. That sounds weird in my brain. I'm probably saying that. And it just is my brain. Oh. that's Probably other people that are listening too going, yeah, that's weird.
00:07:37
Speaker
Okay. It's just not clicking in here. God darn it.
00:07:42
Speaker
What? Because it's gosh darn it or God damn it. like Oh, gosh darn it. God darn it. Gosh darn it. So, yeah, that's our show. Thank you. Have a good day. Yeah, right. So i told them all, Apple, Spotify, oh rate and review us. Give us some stars, people.
00:08:02
Speaker
Right now. Right now. We're going to shame you into giving us a review or rate us. us We're poor. Shame. Shame. if you have never done and you've listened to this show.
00:08:15
Speaker
um What else? um When we were talking about walking into work earlier, siri picked up something. i don't know how because, you know, I don't know how.
00:08:26
Speaker
But I want you to know that
00:08:28
Speaker
You remember what we were talking about. were talking about how I would get anxious and I'd be dripping sweat. But I want you to know that my Siri picked up, oh my God, i would have been dripping. And then siri responded with, I'm sorry. i couldn't quite catch that. Could you please ask it again? so I had to take a picture of it because what the fuck?
00:08:49
Speaker
i would be dripping. yeah I'm sorry. couldn't catch that. Said no lesbian ever. she broke Siri. It's probably because my Siri is Nathan the man, the Australian man.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, my Siri is an Australian man too. It's Hugh Jackman. He's my personal Siri. that's That makes sense. Yeah. It really does, right? and It does. It tracks. It's the greatest showman. Indeed. um Okay.
00:09:21
Speaker
ah i don't... Yeah. I don't... i Oh, I did the thing again. And I know for a fact I didn't write it down because I meant to write it down and I didn't. Because I had something that I wanted to share with you.
00:09:34
Speaker
but I can't even remember what it was about. i just...
00:09:38
Speaker
intentions you did that last week too i have a whole podcast sticky note but you forget to put stuff on it you intend to put stuff on it your intentions are to put stuff on it yeah and then i just get lost in the thoughts I watched more of that show last night that I told you about, the um How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. yeah Sam, you would love that show.
00:10:08
Speaker
Those Irish women are so funny. I do love a good Irish woman. It's like slapstick. And then also there's like a hint of like dark crime.
00:10:18
Speaker
I love that. But then there's a hit woman who's obsessed with Dolly Parton. Say no more. Please. Say no more. She's like this badass kind of mean character. and Unless she's listening to Dolly.
00:10:35
Speaker
and if anybody Dolly brings out the best in all of us. Right? And somebody said something like, what's so special about Dolly? And she's like, i excuse you? going to kill you just for that. She basically saves the world.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. Dolly saves the world. Yeah, she does. To Dolly. To Dolly. To Dolly. And cheers, queers. Cheers, queers. What are you drinking?
00:10:57
Speaker
um I'm drinking ah Dr. Pepper. And I think I'm going to save that Alpine Blast for work tomorrow. poppy alpine blast because you know i love me an alpine blast i think you should and i think i'm gonna keep saving i'll save mine too and i'll drink my diet coke that you bought me and mine is the whopper i should have brought you whopper you should have well you can have some of my sad disappointing fries no no no no i'm good you sure no because the fries are crispy you know and crunchy that's when they're good if they're just like
00:11:34
Speaker
That's like a flaccid What did you think I was going to say? It's a fry. a flaccid fry. Peroni's disease. Peroni's disease. ah Okay. okay this should we Should we start the show?
00:11:52
Speaker
Maybe. All right. 44 people just tuned out. Tell me when to stop.
00:12:02
Speaker
Stop.
00:12:07
Speaker
Remember what this is? Switzerland. My drink token from the street parade. All right. You're going to be the wordy side. Okay. And I'll be the blank slate.
00:12:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:22
Speaker
Went to the ground. It's on the blank slate. Okay. Good enough. Good enough.
00:12:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:30
Speaker
Actually, I want you to go first. Because I want to leave everybody on. is yours going to be like a continuation? no Okay.
00:12:41
Speaker
But it's going to make some people tink. Okay. All right. Mine is not. Mine is going to make a people. Make make a people. make Mine's going to make a people happy. It's going to make people happy. Okay.
00:12:54
Speaker
So it is the very end of Black History Month. And i was scrolling through Instagram the other day. And there's this one person that I absolutely love her content. She just tells stories, right? Her name is Ashley the Baroness on Instagram.
00:13:11
Speaker
And she does a lot of like African-American history. And um that's where I got the idea to do this person because she did, it was like a minute long clip that she did and it was just enough to pique my interest. Right.
00:13:29
Speaker
So as America is a bit of a dumpster fire right now, Is it? little bit. The thing that I've come to love and appreciate while doing this show, even before the show, writing the stories about people that we talk about on the show, it's that there are people who have made this country a better place.
00:13:50
Speaker
And they didn't do it for fame. They didn't do it for any personal gain. They did it simply because it was the right thing to do. They didn't think they were going to be famous. It's a normal idea. Yeah.
00:14:01
Speaker
Take, for example, the woman that I'm going to tell you about today. She helped to create a safe split safe space for black queer youth back when the term safe space wasn't even used.
00:14:14
Speaker
And by safe space, I'm not talking about a place where you're tolerated, but a place where you could simply be you. Free from harm, free from judgment. And she did this for Black LGBTQ youth of Detroit.
00:14:28
Speaker
But she didn't do it in the nineteen eighty s nineteen ninety s She did it in the nineteen forty s the and the nineteen sixty s This is the story of Ruth C. Ellis.
00:14:42
Speaker
And I'm really excited to tell you about her. I believe that stories like Ruth's are as much a part of American history as George Washington, the White House, or the American flag.
00:14:55
Speaker
We have a way of whitewashing history in the country, though, and that's especially true for Black history. So the sources i used, Ashley the Baroness, thank you if you ever hear this, because you did a great job.
00:15:09
Speaker
An article entitled Living with Pride by the University of Michigan. a global society article, an article from Pride Source. need you to stop bending your finger like that. It's freaking me out. Sorry.
00:15:23
Speaker
And Wikipedia. Okay. So Ruth was born in Springfield, Illinois in 1899. She was the youngest of four kids. She grew up in a home full of music and dancing.
00:15:36
Speaker
And she was also lonely. She was one of a very few African-American students in her class. And when Ruth was a teenager, she became the only female in her all-boy household because her mom died.
00:15:51
Speaker
When Ruth was a teenager, she realized that she was gay and she had a crush on her gym teacher named Grace. And Ruth was as her, her dad was the only person that she could rely on for advice. So in 1915, she tells her dad that she has these feelings for girls.
00:16:12
Speaker
And in an interview, her dad, actually her dad was very accepting of this. She's black. She's gay.
00:16:23
Speaker
It's 1915. She tells her dad and he later, she would say in an interview, he said, quote, he wouldn't let me go with boys. He would say books and boys don't go together. So I think he was kind of glad that I would be with a woman because that way i wouldn't have a baby.
00:16:41
Speaker
That's my way of looking at it. Yeah. I mean, either way you look at it, the fact that he said that, you know, we were talking about that football player whose dad chastised him for wanting to be a cheerleader. And the fact that he says that I think set the the tone for the rest of her life, right? i would say so.
00:17:03
Speaker
And this was at a time when sexuality wasn't discussed much, or even, especially even taught. So Ruth said, quote, I found a psychology book. It had different things in it about different types of people.
00:17:15
Speaker
That's how I learned. Nobody said anything. So in 1919, Ruth graduated from high school, and this was at a time when fewer than 7% of African Americans graduated from secondary school.
00:17:28
Speaker
It was in the 1920s when Ruth met the only woman that she would ever live with, and her name was Ciceline Babe Franklin. The couple moved to Detroit in 1937. Ruth had already been working at a printing business by this time, so she and Babe decided to open their own printing business.
00:17:46
Speaker
This established the Ellis and Ruth Printing Company. This was the first woman-owned printing shop in Michigan. It was a personal triumph as well as a significant milestone for women and African Americans in business.
00:18:03
Speaker
It's like nobody ever said she couldn't do it. You know what I mean? Or if they did, she just didn't pay them any attention. So beyond Ruth's professional success, her home became known as, quote, the gay spot within the community.
00:18:17
Speaker
Too often, young people in every community, especially in black communities, were kicked out of their homes for being gay. Ruth wasn't about that. was was it I mean, so she and Babe were were openly gay. they they There was no... Wow.
00:18:36
Speaker
From every bit of the reading that I did they were... If they weren't Like openly gay they did a society. specifically hide it. They didn't specifically hide it.
00:18:49
Speaker
And they were openly gay to the young queer black people. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So um Ruth and Babe lived together during the period of civil rights. Yeah.
00:19:03
Speaker
Wait, I skipped a whole section and it's important section. She and Babe welcomed the youth in. Their generosity extended beyond their home, and Ruth often fed the people that she welcomed in and even so assisted them with college tuition and provided them with essential resources.
00:19:22
Speaker
Ruth and Babe lived together during the period of civil rights and the national gay liberation. During that time, black queer individuals were often excluded from white queer spaces.
00:19:35
Speaker
That's why Ruth's home was a central location for gay and lesbian parties, particularly as a refuge for African-American gays and lesbians. In 1971, Ruth and Ellis separated after 30 years.
00:19:49
Speaker
In 1973, their house was demolished in an urban construction renewal project. Bay passed away also 1973. In the 30 years that they were together, hundreds of people laughed, talked, and danced at their home where everyone was welcome.
00:20:07
Speaker
As Ruth got older, she was rediscovered by the LGBTQ community. It all started after she took a self-defense class with a martial arts instructor named Jane Spiro.
00:20:19
Speaker
Ruth said, i knew a lesbian when I see one. So she struck up a conversation with Spiro after class one day. Spiro, as it turned out, introduced Mother Ruth to a new generation of gay people.
00:20:34
Speaker
Ruth attended the Michigan Women's Festival, that's W-O-M-Y-N, Women's Festival, and lived her best queer life, as Jason Michael from PrideSource said.
00:20:48
Speaker
She was hailed as the matriarch of Detroit's black queer community. Dykes on bikes even sang happy birthday to her one year. Aww. They're fabulous. Ruth loved the attention, but she was also at the same time really perplexed by it.
00:21:03
Speaker
According to Ruth, she simply couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. About little old little old Ruth, that's what she said. what's the i need to put a pin in that. What's the fuss about little old Ruth?
00:21:15
Speaker
Ruth started to gain attention as the oldest out African-American lesbian in Michigan, possibly the country. When people started to ask for interviews with her, That ask was always a bit funny and strange to Ruth, as she was little old Ruth.
00:21:31
Speaker
Or as she would say, why do they want to talk to me? I'm just an ordinary person. In the 1990s, an independent filmmaker, Yvonne Welben, thought that Ruth was anything but ordinary and decided, with Ruth's permission, to make a documentary about Ruth called Living with Pride, Ruth Ellis at 100.
00:21:50
Speaker
The documentary highlights Ruth's trailblazing role in creating a space where black people and LGBTQ people could fit in. It also shows Ruth's love of dancing, including a scene in which she leads the electric slide in a dance hall.
00:22:08
Speaker
She dances to the left and then she dances to the right. And she even outdances people who are half her age. The documentary was released in 1999 during the year of Ruth's 100th birthday.
00:22:24
Speaker
In the documentary, Ruth can be heard laughing at the idea of anyone wanting to see a film or read a book about her. She cackled and said, who would want to read a book about my life? I'm nobody. I'm just Ruth.
00:22:38
Speaker
Who would want to read that? As it turned out, plenty of people thought Ruth was extraordinary. The film was well-received, and Ruth received countless letters and cards, and even by this time, emails for her thanking her for being, quote, just Ruth.
00:22:54
Speaker
In one letter someone wrote, happy 100th birthday and thank you for being out and proud as an African-American lesbian. What a life you have had.
00:23:05
Speaker
Your love and zest for life are truly contagious. Another letter Ruth received in 2000, the writer using a fake name address and fake address for reasons that we probably can imagine, said, quote,
00:23:19
Speaker
I hope to instill in my children the ability to be true to themselves. So this is going to get me. So I need them to see stories like yours and others who have lived their lives being true to who they are and that she, the person writing the letter, couldn't reveal her hut to her husband her attraction to this community.
00:23:40
Speaker
Also in 1999, a committee in Detroit met with the goal of creating some type of emergency housing for queer teens who may otherwise end up on the streets. At the first meeting in June of 1999, they voted unanimously to name the initiative the Ruth Ellis Center.
00:23:58
Speaker
At 100 years of age and with a little bit of assistance, Ruth cut the ribbon and posed for photos with fans old and young. The Ruth Ellis Center continued to grow over the years.
00:24:11
Speaker
Ruth's impact on the LGBTQ community is immortalized in the Ruth Ellis Center. After all, it is dedicated to the homeless LGBTQ youth and young adults in Detroit. The center offers a range of services, including a drop-in center, supportive housing programs, and health and wellness center that provides comprehensive medical and mental health care.
00:24:35
Speaker
The center's mission is a direct reflection of Ruth's lifelong commitment to supporting and uplifting marginalized individuals. Ruth Ellis fostered a community where all individuals, regardless of sexual orientation, could live with dignity and with pride.
00:24:54
Speaker
Ruth contributed more... Let's do that one over, Alan. Ruth fostered a community where all individuals, regardless of sexual orientation, could live with dignity and pride.
00:25:08
Speaker
She contributed to a more inclusive and just society. Her legacy continues to inspire current and future generations of activists who strive for a world where every everyone is treated with respect and dignity.
00:25:24
Speaker
Though Ruth Ellis did from time to time appear to be superhuman,
00:25:30
Speaker
Though Ruth Ellis did, from time to time, appear to be superhuman, she was, after all, simply human. Ruth passed away October 5, 2000, at the age of
00:25:44
Speaker
Kofi Adoma, a clinical psychiatrist and activist from Detroit who also appeared in the documentary said, quote, I think it's important that we know about people like Ruth Ellis because we don't know how many are out there in their 90s, and 100 living an out life.
00:26:02
Speaker
Ruth is a gift to us in that she has come out to the world. And in doing so, she has been able to share what it's like to experience triple oppression, being a woman, being black,
00:26:14
Speaker
and being a lesbian. And as Jason Michael said in his article, quote, Ruth lives on, and that makes me smile. Yes, little old Ruth has made it to the big time, right, where she belongs.
00:26:28
Speaker
And that's the incredible story of Ruth C. Willis and how one person can make such an incredible difference in the world. And cheers to Ruth.
00:26:39
Speaker
Cheers to Ruth. That's wild. I mean...
00:26:44
Speaker
I want to meet her. I want to meet her and put her in my bucket. She's amazing, isn't she it's I mean...
00:26:52
Speaker
That's just one person that we didn't know about. But made it made a difference in hundreds of lives of of kids who would have otherwise... been homeless and had all of the struggles that came along with homelessness, but also being rejected by their friends and family and being in the queer community. Like just wild.
00:27:16
Speaker
even helped put some of them through school that's crazy but and then the fact that she still lives on yeah through the ruth ellis center and she's because of her there's mental health assistance and medical medical yeah what she's an important person or she was an important person yeah You see why when I saw that clip on Instagram, I was like, ohbi but bla I need to check her out.
00:27:45
Speaker
I need to check her out. Well done, Jeffrey. Thank you. i thought you would like that. To Ruth. To Ruth.
00:27:52
Speaker
Well, I'm a the the very different world we're about to dive into. That's what we do. Okay. That's what we do. i want you to tuck in and prepare yourself.
00:28:07
Speaker
tucking so excited i love when you give me warnings i don't know if we've talked about this on the show i think i've talked to you about it or i've talked to people in passing about it but like in addition to all of the romanticy crap that i love to read and the fantasy um i love secret spy shit okay shows, movies, books, everything, right? Things like Jason Bourne, ah the the books and the the whole series by people like Vince Flynn, Brad Thor, Daniel Silva, Brad Taylor, like love it, okay? Just, ooh, keeps you on the seat, you know, it's great.
00:28:46
Speaker
Intrigue. So I'm going to dive into one of the world's favorite agencies of secrets. Okay. What do you think it is? Um...
00:28:57
Speaker
MI6. Nope. KGB. Nope. No. CIA. Yeah. Okay. okay So I think a fair statement to make at this point would be that plenty, if not most, of Americans would agree that the Cold War era was ah roughish time for the United States. The time period from the late 1940s to the early 1990s was rife with covert chaos, conspiracy, fear and panic, distrust and suspicion, right? I mean, that was just the whole era was all of this, right?
00:29:35
Speaker
There have been countless examples of failure failures and willful abuse of power that violated not just the rights of American citizens, but the basic human rights as well.
00:29:45
Speaker
The individuals and agencies who employed heinous tactics and committed such violations found excuses for their actions. Most of them claimed that the safety of the country outweighed the rights of any individual.
00:29:58
Speaker
And that's, you know, a tale as old as time, right? Like, you have a spy agency and they're going to say like, yeah, we've dabbled in a little torture here and there, but like it was for the betterment of our country, right?
00:30:12
Speaker
So he although this is a semi-dated tale, it's also probably widely known, okay? I think it's good time to share because of everything that it represents and the lessons to be learned, okay?
00:30:26
Speaker
Same with Ruth. Yeah. So Mission Impossible, James Bond type people are a romanticized story type version to entertain the masses, right? I mean, who doesn't like a good James Bond villain? I've seen every one of them. Yeah, and Mission Impossible is super catchy. same um And it's all fun and games to dive into that fictional world of spycraft spycraft and intrigue until you realize that your own country ah tried their hand at the whole Manchurian candidate business in real life.
00:31:00
Speaker
Gonzaga University undergraduate student Dawson Neely said it very well in his 2021 paper when he stated, quote, the atrocities of the past must serve as admonitions and MKUltra provides compelling evidence against unwarranted trust in governmental operations.
00:31:21
Speaker
This is the terrifyingly true story about how the U.S. government experimented on and tortured thousands of citizens to try and, quote, win the win the mind control race from 1953 until 1973.
00:31:35
Speaker
In a way, the true story is far more horrific than any type of crazy sci-fi spy story that any author could write. The intricacies and details of the MKUltra project started revealing themselves in the early 1970s during the investigations that unfolded after the Watergate scandal.
00:31:55
Speaker
Congress unraveled 30 years of illegal, improper, and unethical activities conducted by and nsa FBI, irs which IRS, like, get the fuck out of here. And, of course, the CIA. I mean, honestly, what the fuck is the IRS doing that's, you know? Who the fuck knows? Right?
00:32:17
Speaker
Anyway, some of the findings included things like the FBI infiltrating civil organizations and attempting to incite chaos, like the things that they did against Martin Luther King Jr.'s movements and the Vietnam anti-war groups. and we also found CIA assassination plots, which Many, if not most, of the, quote, projects that these agencies conducted were not subject to congressional or executive oversight.
00:32:44
Speaker
Surprise, surprise, right? This story focuses on one of the biggest scandals found during that investigation. MKUltra was founded by the CIA in 1953 and authorized by the then director, Alan Dulles, in response to reports that the Soviets, North Koreans, and Chinese had developed some twisted form of mind control and brainwashing.
00:33:05
Speaker
The US intelligent community decided to find ways to create their own versions of behavioral modification, mind control, and like truth serum type stuff.
00:33:15
Speaker
You know MKUltra, right? Yeah. Okay, so the same man who approved the project made a speech the same year that research began in one of the most masterful examples of manipulation and deception, okay?
00:33:31
Speaker
Dulles spoke at the Princeton University's National Alumni Conference about the supposed Soviet experiments, and he was quoted saying, "...we in the West are somewhat handicapped in getting all the details." We have no human guinea pigs ourselves on which to try out these extraordinary techniques.
00:33:49
Speaker
Knowing full well that he had just approved a wild project. Bless you.
00:33:57
Speaker
The research, broken down into um about 150 sub-projects, dove into things like drugs and the use of things ah like narcotics and hallucinogens on participants.
00:34:10
Speaker
Other research involved many other types of things.
00:34:14
Speaker
Did you hear that? I did. Okay. We're being invaded. Some of the participants, quote, voluntarily enrolled in these studies. Others were completely unaware of the tests being done to them. Okay?
00:34:29
Speaker
Some people were told falsely that they had certain diagnoses, whether mental or physical. Okay. and that they were being given medications for these illnesses, okay? Others did have actual medical or psychological diagnoses, and they were treated in a completely inappropriate way.
00:34:48
Speaker
One such victim, and I use that word specifically because it's not a patient, it's not a test subject, it's not a participant, it is a victim, okay? These people were victims because they didn't know what was happening and they were being lied to.
00:35:01
Speaker
um described the effects of the treatment he received as mental rape. One subproject was intended to determine how to disturb an individual's memory and discredit them by inducing aberrant behavior.
00:35:18
Speaker
So they would intentionally give people such high doses of LSD or other types of like drug cocktails to make them start...
00:35:29
Speaker
acting in, in quote, crazy ways so that they were discredited and wouldn't be believed when they said, the sky's blue. Well, we can't believe you because look at how you're behaving, right?
00:35:40
Speaker
So another subproject was the elusive truth serum. And this was a study that combined several drugs and hypnosis during interrogation to extract truthful truthful information from an uncooperative source.
00:35:53
Speaker
In no uncertain terms, the project was a system systematic torture of civilians and a display of, quote, complete malpractice and science to further national interests. The findings of the congressional investigation into MKUltra served as the motivation for legislation protecting Americans from unethical domestic intelligence activities.
00:36:15
Speaker
As we all know, the CIA is a sneaky little bitch. Okay. So the agency attempted to hide their involvement by conducting the research at many well-known institutions.
00:36:27
Speaker
Throughout all of the research and all of the releases in the FOIA and all that kind of stuff that came about with these congressional hearings, the names of the 44 colleges or universities, 15 well-known research research foundations, 12 hospitals or clinics, and three penal institutions were not all released in the findings because it was revealed that the institutions weren't actually aware that they were working for the CIA. mom The funding had been disguised as grants and and scholarships and all sorts of things. It's all disguised as some other shit. So it is. So these these institutions were given money and like general guidelines, but they were told, oh
00:37:14
Speaker
take many whatever liberties you want and do whatever you want because you know, this money's paying for it. And they weren't told, hey, this is like flat out illegal, mind you.
00:37:27
Speaker
Did any of them have any question about the moral or ethical side of this? i mean, fucking clearly not, okay? So a significant point of contention in the discussion about this research was the accuracy accuracy of the term voluntary for those that were aware of this program that they were enrolled in. Because based on where the research was taking place,
00:37:50
Speaker
the participants were students, people who were already unwell or ill, and then people who were incarcerated. So they maybe couldn't actually give full consent, right? We have to make sure as medical professionals that We have someone who is cognitively aware enough to make a decision. Yes, I understand the risk and the benefits of this. is Right. So not all of these people that were involved could do that. And some of them were in positions that they were not able to decline. So even if they were told, hey, this is what we're going to do, if they declined, something worse could happen. Right.
00:38:30
Speaker
So these individuals were classified under the second phase of the program that was conducted on the more controlled setting of volunteers. So the brainiacs the super spies acknowledged that these tests that they were doing and the effectiveness effectiveness of the techniques couldn't really be fully established because they needed more.
00:38:51
Speaker
So enter phase three. This third phase of the program involved undercover fucking agents from the Bureau of Narcotics who were directly working for the CIA, secretly administering the substances to, quote, unwitting non-volunteer subjects in normal life settings.
00:39:10
Speaker
Hmm. Okay. That's a lot of words to say that they were fucking drugging people without their knowledge, right? Like just fucking strangers on the street. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. The unaware individuals were targeted and observed in what they called safe houses.
00:39:25
Speaker
And these participants, whether they were volunteers or not, suffered catastrophic and lifelong consequences. Mm-hmm. Most of the official CIA documentation and details were ordered destroyed by the lead overseer, Sidney Gottlieb, when the inspector general learned of the operation and halted the progress. So in 1973, all of a sudden, 20 years of research just stops.
00:39:51
Speaker
And as soon as they realize that they're being investigated, The people in charge of it are like, whoa, and they burn book all of it, right? They just get rid of it.
00:40:02
Speaker
So a lot of the information that we know about the project comes from the people that did the research, who were investigated, their patients, who
00:40:15
Speaker
or it the the The patients, the families, all of the people who witnessed the the happenings and then the after effects of it, right? And a lot of fucking lawyers, journalists, historians trying to dive into this.
00:40:31
Speaker
The prisoners who volunteered for the program were not told specifics about what was happening. They were given a vague consent form, and they were promised or rewarded with, hey, I hear you've got a hankering for heroin. If you do this, we'll give that to you at the end of it. ah hu Okay? Yeah. So the thank you for their participation was to continue their drug habit.
00:40:56
Speaker
Dr. Ewan Cameron of the Allen Memorial Institute was a psychiatrist and program researcher who has openly been referred to as a mad scientist.
00:41:08
Speaker
Under the guise of providing psychotherapy, Dr. Cameron dosed his patients with massive quantities of LSD until their depression was the least of their worries.
00:41:20
Speaker
ah didn't This guy's fucking horrible, okay? Additionally, he used dangerously high and unresearched doses of electroshock therapy de-patterning.
00:41:37
Speaker
He used paralysis drugs, sleep drugs. He was known for medicating his patients into pseudo coma states for up to 60 days and practicing something called psychic driving that involved medicating and then forcing patients to listen to prerecorded like tapes that said certain things to change their sense of reality.
00:42:03
Speaker
His techniques performed for the CIA constituted behavioral modifications that successfully, successfully stripped individuals of their identity and personality.
00:42:16
Speaker
and stole years of their lives it's unknown if dr cameron was fully aware that his research was being used by the cia and for what purpose but i think that if he didn't know that it makes it even worse right like the at least if he knew he could like find some bullshit excuse and be like i'm doing it for my government right yeah The son of one of his patients was interviewed many years after the experiments and gave a statement about his father after he returned from his time at the Allen Memorial Institute.
00:42:51
Speaker
He said, quote, At the end of that time, my father was someone who was unrecognized unrecognizable to me or any anyone else in the family or his friends.
00:43:02
Speaker
He was someone who could not function in this world, whose perspective did not extend beyond the next five minutes, who had no recollection of the past and no almost no recognition of the present. Mm-hmm.
00:43:16
Speaker
His methods and treatments were entirely disproportionate to the underlying reported illnesses and very clearly violated the Nuremberg Code. For those people who, for some reason, i don't know, live under a rock, the Nuremberg Code, for those, again, who don't know, is the 10-point statement that outlines permissible medical experimentation on human subjects. It was developed in 1947 during the post-World War ii Nuremberg trials, and Because, you this non-consensual torture experimenting that the nazi Nazis did, right?
00:43:49
Speaker
So in the simplest terms, it notes that humane experimentation is only justified if the results benefit society and it is carried out in accord with basic principles that satisfy moral, ethical, and legal concepts.
00:44:02
Speaker
The cornerstone is voluntary, informed, and uncoerced consent. okay Voluntary, informed, and uncoerced. thank yeah Nothing about this is any of those things.
00:44:18
Speaker
So with the attention that grew from the lawsuits in the media coverage, the CIA eventually confessed to the project's unethical side, but still to this day has never once issued an official apology. Okay? Hmm.
00:44:30
Speaker
Lucas Meyer wrote, quote, even if one leaves aside the unparalleled violations of basic human rights and the system systematic absence of informed consent to the often deb debilitating procedures, the damage inflicted on the victim's minds and brains was far too great for the desired psychological and behavioral modifications to be much be of much value for the purposes envisioned by the intelligence agencies. So he's basically saying that...
00:44:58
Speaker
All of these thousands of people suffered unspeakable horrors for years, and the processes implemented never scientifically made sense for any type of actual development or advancement. So they endured untreatable traumas on the whim of mad scientists for the good of the country.
00:45:14
Speaker
Neely brought about many points in his paper about MKUltra. The most poignant is his conclusion that states, in short, Project MKUltra is relevant today because it provides a historical horror story of intelligence misconduct and serves as an admonition against complacency when things don't add up.
00:45:34
Speaker
Just a few months ago, in October of 2025, the transcripts from Sidney Gottlieb's testimony to the church committee, in addition to formally long, long classified memos and records, were finally published by the National Security Archives.
00:45:50
Speaker
And holy fuckballs, Jeff, if you have the time or the chance and you want to just ruin your mental stability, ah take a peek.
00:46:02
Speaker
just to see the arrogance of these individuals, because still, you know, you read these papers and you're like, God, they're just fucking assholes.
00:46:15
Speaker
They were callous and unfeeling and their testimonies were fucking her horrible. And, Here's where she gets horrible, even more so.
00:46:27
Speaker
So in an impressively terrifying 2025 publication from the Harvard Kennedy School, Lucas Meyer explores the implications for the current technology and continued developments in brain-computer interface systems.
00:46:39
Speaker
He relates the concepts and the goals of these types of but devices to the goals and aims of the MKUltra experiments. Modern-day devices bypass the peripheral nerve system and directly access the brain.
00:46:50
Speaker
They read and interpret cerebral activity to produce commands for machines to follow and perform activities or carry out instructions, right? So they're currently being used for like neuroprosthetic controls. So we know people who have like the,
00:47:05
Speaker
the sensors and they're surgically implanted inside the skull and they use that transmission and those signals for someone who is paralyzed or someone who has had a ah really traumatic stroke that has left them unable to use it. Right. And they can use these sensors to move a robotic arm or something like that, even though their body's not actually moving.
00:47:35
Speaker
Amazing. So as the world advances, so too do these devices and interfaces. Now there have been devices that go beyond motor intent. So I want to be able to pick up that cup, but my arm doesn't move. so i'm go to use the robotic arm to do it. Right.
00:47:50
Speaker
um Some interfaces can detect emotional and cognitive states. As long ago as 2019, the Nags Experimental School released research involving students wearing a brain-computer interface headband that monitored attention levels and relayed that information in real time directly back to a teacher's display.
00:48:18
Speaker
Newer research is finding that these devices are effective in decoding increasingly complex sensory perceptions of the wearer. So again, we're going beyond just, I think I want to stick up a middle finger on that robot arm to,
00:48:35
Speaker
So additionally, the interfaces are able to not only decode cerebral activity, but can be used to stimulate the brain. Okay. This means modifying psychological properties.
00:48:47
Speaker
The human brain, which we as medical people know as the most complex and intricate and unmapped and like beautifully unknown. Okay. Or terrifyingly unknown. i think it's beautiful, but um it's it's getting read like a children's book by these devices now.
00:49:05
Speaker
Didn't know that. Yeah, so it's targeting the sensory cor cortices, but we also know of deep brain stimulation, right? Because all of these sensors are or are superficial almost. yeah But we know that deep brain stimulators are used for patients with Parkinson's or other neuro neurological disorders. Also people with you know seizure activity, all that kind of stuff. So those are deeper in, right? Yeah.
00:49:35
Speaker
So if what they're working on now for all of this sensory like understanding, motor intent, all that kind of stuff is combined with the deep brain stimulation technology, the potential for misuse and nefarious intent is startlingly real. Mm-hmm.
00:49:57
Speaker
Meyer points out that all of these advancements, although there are plenty of real and perceived benefits, the technology and capabilities are moving us, quote, dangerously close to inadvertently enabling one of the main goals of Cold War intelligence programs, the eliciting of an information from subjects who are not willfully cooperating.
00:50:17
Speaker
This potential closely ties to one of MKUltra's subprojects that was focused on the design and creation of mini polygraph machines to be used on unwitting targets. So Cold War era, they were trying to develop technology that was small enough that it could be put inside someone's brain to determine if they were lying or telling the truth without them even knowing. Okay.
00:50:43
Speaker
This specific sub project at the time was limited primarily by the lack of technology to make the devices small enough. Something that has already been accomplished many times over by companies today.
00:50:56
Speaker
Easily, easily, easily. Just think about like, I just had this conversation with somebody recently that um the um the satellite that was sent up in the 20th century, the what the iPhone can do now, you know? Yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
The computer in the 1980s, what the iPhone can do now. Yeah. I mean, it's just an example, but like there are things that are 10 times more of an example than that, you know?
00:51:27
Speaker
and it's moving very rapidly. You know, with all these big brains that we have and all of the opportunities, it's...
00:51:35
Speaker
So even 50 years ago, during Project MKUltra, researchers at the University of Maryland successfully completed experiments that involved the surgical implantation of electrodes into dog brains that remotely elicited desire locomotion.
00:51:53
Speaker
Okay. 50 fucking years ago, Jeff, they were able to put a device in a dog's brain, type a command in a computer, and make that dog move the way they wanted it to. Okay? That's insane. So as a subproject of, like, MKUltra, it was subproject 119, the research was intended to be translated to humans to, quote, master the remote control of behavior.
00:52:18
Speaker
And they fucking did it. Mm-hmm. Only a few couple handfuls-ish of years ago.
00:52:25
Speaker
The Committee on Military and Intelligence Methodology for Emergent Neurophysiological and Cognitive Research was asked by the Defense Intelligence Agency to review neurotechnology to, quote, select the manners in which this work could be of interest to national security professionals and for the future of war fighting applications.
00:52:52
Speaker
The questions they asked were wildly unsettling, okay? Can cognitive states and intentions of persons of interest be you read?
00:53:05
Speaker
Can cognitive states and intentions be controlled? How can we disrupt the enemy's motivation to fight? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?
00:53:19
Speaker
Just a few years after those questions were asked, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, which is the part of the defense Department of Defense that is responsible for developing military technology,
00:53:34
Speaker
Contracted researchers from aris state Arizona State University for a project that aimed to, quote, explore the neuropsychology of narrative and persuasion. i about we don't? With the goal of, quote, helping the United States government.
00:53:52
Speaker
to convince world populations of its good intentions and to dissuade key constituencies from the powerful narratives told by violent extremists.
00:54:05
Speaker
And when I tell you that that is a direct quote from a government directive, That's online for the public to read. I'm sweating. Yeah. Okay. Like, way hoof. Okay.
00:54:19
Speaker
So these scientists were tasked with generating the necessary data to, quote, understand, model, and disrupt narratives on a neurological level and the capability to induce powerful narrative phenomena with certainty.
00:54:35
Speaker
The researchers indicated the intent to use transcranial magnetic stimulation to, quote, selectively alter aspects of narrative structure and the brain functioning to induce or disrupt selective features of narrative processing.
00:54:49
Speaker
We don't like how you guys are interpreting what we're doing right now. So let's change what you see and how you feel about
00:54:58
Speaker
So that's a lot of technical jargon. It's a lot of science talk. It's a lot of like brain stuff. Right. But you understand what all of that means. We don't like your interpretation. Let's change our interpretation.
00:55:11
Speaker
It's okay. and Let's go to Stepford. In layman's terms. Yeah. Let's change. We're puppets. So writing this story, I am, I find myself,
00:55:23
Speaker
with like ah lots of different feelings about this, right? Because again, as medical professionals, I despise how much we don't know about neurological disorders or how little we do we can do to manage them. So I'm absolutely stoked about the ideas that could come from and have already come from brain computer interface technology. I mean, it's amazing, right?
00:55:46
Speaker
Stupidhead Musk has a company called Neuralink that has already successfully mastered wireless communication-equipped implantable devices that paralyzed patients are effectively using at this time. Okay? So there's so much good for this type of technology, right?
00:56:03
Speaker
The potential is endless. Unfortunately, there's also significantly and startlingly like evil villain level fucking potential with the technology and the fact that even years ago governments were already poking their hands into the cookie jar and reaching to take the next step towards the goals that are absurdly close to what the goals of project mk ultra were okay although in different in many ways mostly because it's less illegal so far um and less physically damaging to the human brain
00:56:41
Speaker
quote, that if influences can be exerted on the mind in less invasive ways does not render them any less dangerous. In a sense, inconspicuous manipulations are even more concerning as they are harder to detect.
00:56:57
Speaker
Our country and the world at large is in a period of time let's call it, significant unrest. much like the Cold War era.
00:57:10
Speaker
It's times like these that things escalate and liberties are lost. and you have Let me add, I just want to, what I was thinking about while you were telling this is we're at spot in America where everybody is starting to see that the top 1% gives no fucks about the bottom, the rest of the people. And it's the top 1%, like the person you mentioned, that has the power to do with this what he wants.
00:57:34
Speaker
And... They do not care about us, the little people, roots of the world. They don't care about us.
00:57:44
Speaker
And they're the ones that are controlling all this.
00:57:48
Speaker
they're They're the ones inventing it. Look at Stupid Head. You know, there's a Michael Jackson song that I think would be perfect to play here. What is it?
00:57:57
Speaker
Anyway, okay we have already seen it occurring in so many different ways in our country. The government takes and takes, and there's less and less oversight as geopolitical, racial, and religious tensions continue to rise precipitously.
00:58:10
Speaker
The rights on individuals fall victim to the, again, safety of the country as a whole, right? Meyer concludes his earth-shatteringly horrific re revelations with a simple and incredibly profound undeniable statement.
00:58:27
Speaker
Quote, the two dangerous ingredients are ingredients are recurring. A resurgence of block confrontation and the availability of innovations employable for interfering with the human brain.
00:58:38
Speaker
We may not be able to rely on technological limitations thwarting efforts at mind control a second time. And, like, i wouldn't I wouldn't have fucking believed it until I read. Mm-hmm. Like, and this wasn't just some fucking nutcase spouting off what he thinks is happening, right? This was a fucking Kennedy, like, Harvard Kennedy School. Mm-hmm. And it was written last fucking year, Jeff. That's insane. With sources that are government sources.
00:59:07
Speaker
So I don't ever think of myself and had never considered myself a conspiracy nut or like a tin foil hat kind of person. And it's always easy to like give a really big old eye roll, laugh it off when people talk about our phones or our Alexa is like listening to us, right? You know, we joke we joke about how often do we joke about, oh, my phone heard me, like now it's giving me ads for this or Alexa randomly turned on. Siri just randomly tuned in my conversation, like pitch, shut up.
00:59:36
Speaker
um We joke about it all the time, but it's...
00:59:42
Speaker
I never cared because if there is somebody like listening to me or watching me through my camera, I don't cover my camera on my laptop because you know like I'm fucking awesome. I'm hilarious. And like if they want to spy on me, like what are they going to see? right But this is this is getting fucking weird.
01:00:02
Speaker
So I've had this conversation with people from another country and they um their thought is always, I have nothing to hide.
01:00:13
Speaker
they can They can listen to me. That's fine. I have nothing to hide. no it's it And my position was always, it is not okay. That is not o okay. Regardless, if you are the most innocent human in the world, that is not okay. Well, I have never cared about that, even though I know it's a violation of privacy. I have no i have no reservations in saying that, like, yeah, no, they shouldn't be able to do it, but the truth is, is, like, I'm not going to be the one that's going to stop them. So I know that whatever they're seeing or hearing on my
01:00:44
Speaker
all of my accounts that I have or whatever. Like, I know that that's fine, but you know, this story
01:00:54
Speaker
and like, I went deep, deep into this. Cause after reading that Harvard article, I was like, Oh fuck. So I kept going, which was a terrible fucking idea. Okay. ah Horrible. Have you ever seen the movie read?
01:01:10
Speaker
Red, but... Bruce Willis, Helen Mirren. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So in that movie, huge, huge bunch of stars, but John Malkovich plays...
01:01:22
Speaker
He plays a man who like you can laugh at at the time because they consider him paranoid and crazy. And in the movie, they explain that he is the way he is because the government had done secret LSD dosing experiments on him, which, again, we knew MKUltra was a thing, so we knew that that was like a stab at that, right? But truthfully, after reading all of this shit,
01:01:49
Speaker
I feel as though it's important for us to start figuring out how we can live like he does in that film just
01:01:59
Speaker
but I think it's also like ah people will say oh he's like that because the government the government did something to him like in quotes as a way like that's part of the propaganda like we should never believe that you know what I mean No. well um We're kind of taught to not believe that the government would ever do anything like that.
01:02:21
Speaker
Oh, so you think that the movie like was saying it in like a sarcastic way? No, I'm talking about in real life. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no. For real. I mean, you have those people. You have the people that are forever going to just like have blind faith and just ignorant fucking bliss. Right. And they're going to choose to be like America, the great America, the beautiful America is would never do such a thing. But I mean. The proof, the proof is out there. And just again, i mean, the fact that they just released.
01:02:56
Speaker
whatever records they did have in the transcripts from Gottlieb's testimonies, just last year, it became available to the public, okay? And it's still, I mean, there's just a whole bunch of redacted shit still, obviously.
01:03:12
Speaker
But there is plenty of testimony on the freaking hand on the Bible that all you fuckers like to swear on and and under oath and all that shit.
01:03:26
Speaker
things that he is saying
01:03:28
Speaker
ah yeah yeah yeah so i don't know i'm so like at a different spot in my mind than where i was 10 years ago you know what i mean about how we're treated in this country it is different i have a different view of that now than i did 10 years ago And what I know is that, and I will go back to it all the time, the 1%, with the government permission, they're doing bad shit.
01:04:06
Speaker
They don't give a fuck about us. They don't care about us. That's the Michael Jackson song. They don't. And that's part of the problem.
01:04:18
Speaker
He was a man beyond his time. Which, by the way, let's take a pause. First of all, let's take a pause. That's the end of that story because, ick. But now you know why I was tripping balls when I was like, i remember you doing that iron want to get my tinfoil hat made, please. can i Can I have different colors? Just insane.
01:04:39
Speaker
But did you see the newest releases and the newest interviews about with with everything that has come out?
01:04:48
Speaker
the things that have been coming out about Michael Jackson, have you seen? no So one person that, one person that everyone always liked to reference was Macaulay Culkin, right? And how he was definitely abused by Michael Jackson, et cetera, right? He gave an interview recently about how with everything that has been released, not once is Michael Jackson's name mentioned, right?
01:05:12
Speaker
And it was because he used...
01:05:17
Speaker
Neverland as... ah See, that's not the right reaction. He used it to fight against what was happening on the island.
01:05:28
Speaker
And it's... But there's new information that has come out that because he was taking these kids away from that as the alternative, and he was... He never did any of the things that they...
01:05:45
Speaker
thought that he did they were like oh it's so creepy like a grown-ass man doing this like inviting all these boys over yeah his his the narrative about him was thought to be is now thought to have been put out by certain individuals to distract distract distract Some people are really good at throwing a bomb out in the middle and saying, look over there. Look at that.
01:06:18
Speaker
You know? Yep. And that's all they could focus on. Yeah. I didn't see that. I did see that Prince Andrew was arrested. I did see that.
01:06:28
Speaker
Did you see the Virginia Hospital Center executive was identified? Really? Uh-huh. Sarah Ferguson did some nasty shit.
01:06:37
Speaker
Begging that, you know, whatever. So what a world we live in. you know what? We've got Ruth to think about. We do. And you know what? They might not care about Ruth, but I do. And this is proof that we do not discuss our stories with each other at all. At all. We don't try to align the stories. We just pick one and go with it. There's no conspiracy. There ain't no conspiracy. We're not colluding.
01:07:02
Speaker
Okay. That was a good show. On that note, cover your cameras, people. Mine's already covered on my computer right here. i have a little piece of paper over my camera. I'll be selling tinfoil hats right in the coming months. I'll take two. Thank you. What colors?
01:07:17
Speaker
Silver. Sparkly. Sparkly. big Thank you. Kelsey, we're to need you to get on that. Part of our swag collection is going to be tinfoil hats. As you're listening to us, just plop that right on.
01:07:29
Speaker
Oh, you're going to have a weekend with them this weekend, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. there oh yeah. That's happening. Oh yeah. So we also need to make sure that we mentioned that there was some birthdays we missed throughout the month of February. um So I know Malayla and May don't really listen to as much, but happy birthday to May and Malayla and to um my cousin, Kirsten and to all you other February babies. Oh, I got to see my friend Kate this morning. She drove up from North Carolina and I almost died. I walked out, slipped, fell, and you know, but i got to see her new baby and her son, who's like a grown ass man.
01:08:09
Speaker
um He's only three, but he's like he's got smarter than I am already. He's got a beard. Hey, what's up, Sam? Drinking a beer. But he's three. No, he's grown. He's a grown-ass man. um But yeah, so that's there's some bright spots. And i think that one of the things that keeps me sane in everything that's going on is...
01:08:31
Speaker
Thank you to all of the the people in the Instagram accounts that have been created over the the handful of the last few months with everything terrible in the world. um Those people that put out like the 10 good things that you didn't hear about because of all of the overshadowing bad. And they just, you can just scroll through there and you can get a good laugh or a good cry and like a healthy one, right? Because there are good things happening and there's stuff that is changing.
01:08:59
Speaker
Elsewhere in the world. Not so much here. All the bad shit we see. All the bad shit we see and that we're learning about. There's going to be more good people like Ruth. There already is. People are having walkouts at school.
01:09:14
Speaker
I shared this person with Jamie the other day. and I do. I want to give a really, really huge shout out to the kids of Woodbridge High School who stood up for something that was really important and you know, 300 children created this,
01:09:35
Speaker
children
01:09:36
Speaker
created this this
01:09:40
Speaker
peaceful act of defiance to stand up for what was right and they did it and they knew why they were doing it and they did yeah it wasn't just oh i get out of school it was a genuine effort the only thing that these kids can do is to show their support and a small small act of defiance And then they were suspended. And then one of their moms was like, yeah, I'm good with that. She did the right thing. Yeah. Boom.
01:10:12
Speaker
Boom. Speaks volumes. Okay. On that note, we're here for a good time. Not a long time. All right. Bye.