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Change Management and Conflict Resolution with Martha Rackets
28 Plays7 days ago
In this episode, Dr. Martha Rackets discusses change management, conflict resolution, leadership, and her own approach to working in the industry. Visit our website at www.nbhap.org.
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Transcript
Introduction to Destination Change Podcast
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to Destination Change, a podcast where we talk recovery, treatment, and more. I'm your host, Angie Fiedler-Sutton, with the National Behavioral Health Association providers, and I use she, her pronouns.
Meet Martha Racketts, Behavioral Health Strategist
00:00:22
Speaker
My guest today is Martha Racketts.
00:00:24
Speaker
Martha Racketts is a systems expert and behavioral health strategist with over 15 years of experience across clinical, operational, and leadership roles. She has dedicated her career to advocating for healthcare care providers and invests deeply in developing and mentoring professionals across the field.
00:00:39
Speaker
She also strongly believes in integrating person-centered and trauma-informed principles across every level of an organization, including leadership style and change and growth initiatives. Martha's career has been dedicated to, quote, helping the helpers so that the talented and passionate behavioral health providers and specialists can thrive and continue to do their life's work in a way that is rewarding and sustainable.
00:01:00
Speaker
Martha is a recognized expert in interpersonal communication, conflict resolution, and the human-to-technology relationship, and has published research and presented on these topics to national audiences.
00:01:10
Speaker
She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist, a board-approved clinical supervisor, and an AAMFT clinical fellow. Her academic and clinical roots inform an approach that blends data-driven and research-informed strategies with a therapeutic and person-centered style. providing leaders and teams with most strategic clarity and a sense of stability and support.
00:01:31
Speaker
Martha, welcome to Destination Change. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. For those who are regular listeners, they know exactly what my first question is. It's always the same. I like hearing origin stories. How did you get
Martha's Career Journey and Passion for Family Systems
00:01:44
Speaker
into the industry? Why did you pick this versus all the other potential career options that are out there?
00:01:50
Speaker
All of all the careers. Yeah. Why this career? Why this field? So my origin story probably start as a college student. I actually, as ah as an undergraduate, started as a music major, a vocal performance major, and soon determined that was not a perfect fit for career. vocational future. And as I was taking courses, trying to find a fit, seeing what resonated with me, I actually found my way into ah family sciences class that was ah it's like a basic introduction to family systems, how family systems work, what different levels of the family system are, how roles interact, how systems change over time and respond to stress. It's like a systems 101 class. And I was hooked. I had no idea that could be a major. Or that working with families and systems could be a career path, but I leaned in into that.
00:02:44
Speaker
One thing led to the other. So I ended up getting degrees in human development and sociology as a bachelor's level, and then continued on to my master's and my PhD, becoming a clinician.
Transition to Organizational Work in Behavioral Health
00:02:56
Speaker
So my first entry point into working in the behavioral health space was as a therapist.
00:03:03
Speaker
And then, you know, how i how do you go from being a therapist, like a direct care provider, to then working where I'm at now, working with, on the basically on the organizational level, right? I see my like my client as the organization itself, the system, the whole system together, what I'm taking in and supporting. That's really happened through a lot of experience. I've been in the field for over 15 years as a direct provider. a therapist, a clinical supervisor, a manager, an executive, and have had a front row view to how organizations in our field function, what these systems feel like, how behavioral health systems operate, some of the really beautiful things that we do and programs that we build and services that we provide. And then also some of the like the pretty unique challenges that behavioral health systems
00:03:52
Speaker
experience over time as they're changing, as they're growing. So I think that coming in from the therapist point of view and working as a direct care provider, working alongside other folks who are providing care, think it's really, it really primed me for taking on this mission of being very invested in the behavioral health workforce.
00:04:13
Speaker
So came in as a member of that team and at this point have transitioned into really wanting to support the workforce, the behavioral health workforce. I'm highly invested in the success of the workforce, being able to retain and provide support for all the talented folks who work in this field. Also working with the leaders along the way, right? Having been in leadership and executive positions myself, I also take a big interest in and how our leaders are doing as well. So it's not just the workforce, it's not just the organization overall, but there's a big role that our leaders are playing and how they're experiencing changes and growth over time and what their roles are like. So that's how I found my way into the field and then how I then found my way, right, working, thinking about my role at this point in my career as working with the system as a whole. As someone who had a theater minor in my undergrad, I say yay to the music. I also relate to the whole, there is not much work available in the arts, not much paying work anyway.
00:05:19
Speaker
But anyway, next up is and one of those questions that I feel everybody has a different answer to. So I love asking everybody the same question. What does it mean to you to go through treatment recovery? How do you define that?
The Transformative Recovery Process
00:05:31
Speaker
The going through the process and that experience? Yeah. So from ah like an experiential perspective, right, if you're looking at this from ah like a user experience or the journey, right, the journey of the experience, I guess it would say it's a combination of being extremely vulnerable, but also with the potential to be transformative. It can be a really beautiful experience, but in transformation, it can also be a lot of vulnerability and discomfort. I've seen some of the most incredible clinical programs that are honestly, I can't describe it in any other way, but to say it, it's almost like magical or ethereal in some way to see how different types of therapies, holistic practices, care, trauma-informed treatment, how all of that can come together to create a like really incredible transformative container For folks who are going through the treatment process or who are in early recovery, it can be, yeah, it can be transformative if you're in the space to receive that. But again, at the same time, transformation. And I know i'm coming from that change lens. Right? yes
00:06:37
Speaker
things in it yeah that were Different for everybody. And it can also be uncomfortable, right? It can be this in-between space of not quite where I was and not quite sure where I go from here or what the future holds. Some of that uncertainty can hold some tension in us, right?
00:06:54
Speaker
Now, this podcast is called Destination Change, and that's because we feel recovery is a journey, not a one-stop kind of thing. There are different paths you can take, you can backtrack. So one of the things I also like asking our guests is what are some of the barriers on a regular basis for people to not be able to get through recovery or to that they find while going through recovery? What do they experience as
Barriers in Behavioral Health Treatment
00:07:16
Speaker
a roadblock? Yeah.
00:07:17
Speaker
something that comes up for them. i guess I could come at this from a few different angles, right? So accessibility to to high quality treatment, right? That can certainly be a barrier or having gaps, gaps in treatment. I'm a staunch advocate for collaborative care across the continuum of care, warm handoffs from one level of care to the other. I think a lot of folks, their treatment progress and treatment momentum that they've gained from one program to the next can be lost, right?
00:07:47
Speaker
in the shuffle. In particular, I don't have a solution for this, but in particular, I think it can be really challenging to transfer therapists like primary therapists over time as a tricky, vulnerable journey is playing out. So when you have multiple guides in your treatment journey with different types of approaches, that could be that could be a beautiful thing and that could be very successful. But I think for folks who need more kind of containment and consistency in their experience, that could be really hard.
00:08:15
Speaker
and could create a roadblock in continuity or momentum or structure and accountability to have a lot of those different like treatment changes over time. Again, I don't have a solution for that.
00:08:27
Speaker
um Besides having like one therapist that follows you, like over time, I know that's certainly possible, right? But not all folks have the means to have a private therapist or a case manager or a sober coach who can follow them through different facets of their journey.
00:08:43
Speaker
think there are solutions, but access to those things. I think can be challenging as well. Or covered by insurance, which I'm actually currently experiencing myself. It's like, I'm flipping, I'm thinking of flipping insurances and my psychiatrist is not covered under one of the options. And so it's like, I have to sit there and weigh the pros and cons.
The Role of Humor in Therapy
00:09:00
Speaker
And the start over, what the potential slowdown in progress that will happen, right? Even if we do a perfect transfer of notes and medications, right? In that situation, there will be a slowdown Even if there's not a backtrack, it will be a slowdown in progress as everyone gets up to speed, right, with the new way of doing things, a new relationship with that person, maybe a different system to sign into or a different office you need to drive to, parking's different. You know, it it seems like a simple change, but it's not, right? Like the experience of it on our side as the patient, it can feel like a lot. It can feel like a barrier.
00:09:37
Speaker
Now let's start first talking about your work as a therapist itself. Looking over your website and one of the things it says is, I use humor, warmth, and curiosity to connect with clients and create a therapy process that is collaborative and productive.
00:09:51
Speaker
Why is humor important to the therapy process? I think that humor is important to the therapy process when cases are complex and there's a lot of suffering. There's a lot of palpable suffering.
00:10:02
Speaker
At this point in my career, I work with complex cases that I'm working with long term. And that's certainly also a lot of what I was seeing when I was ah an addictions therapist or working as a family therapist in treatment programs. It's a long haul. It's a long ride. for a lot of these families. It's a long ride for these patients.
00:10:19
Speaker
It's not a fast acting solution and off you go. So I think therapists and the treatment team being able to show up authentically as people with humor, with personality, with a little bit of levity in the room will go access a bit of fuel to put into the tank to keep us all going because it's a marathon, right? Not a sprint.
00:10:40
Speaker
Exactly. i I personally am a big fan of using humor as a defense mechanism and some of my worst events in my life. The only reason I didn't get I got through it with any kind of sanity is because I just would say some of the stupidest jokes or some of the weirdest things. So I totally understand the need for humor and in the partnership. Yeah, especially when we all know it's a defense mechanism and we can do it and then we can get back to work.
00:11:08
Speaker
Exactly. exactly we're We're not just here for the jokes, but we can use it. The clients can use it. We can all laugh and joke and then we can then dive back and dive back into the work. Let's talk a little bit about the collaborative aspect. Obviously, collaborative is important, but talk a little bit more about why that is important to
Collaboration for Aligned Patient Care
00:11:24
Speaker
you.
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, collaborative care for me. And again, gosh, I talk about systems a lot. Looking at things from a system perspective, I've always thought of myself as a provider as being part of a larger system of care, right? Even in private practice, if you're not on a treatment team, the likelihood that your patient is working with other providers who are treating symptoms or have different types of goals or interventions that they are engaging in that are related to the work that I'm doing, the likelihood is extremely high.
00:11:53
Speaker
So creating alignment across those methodologies, across those goals, even looking at what kind of contraindications can be here if I'm doing this and this provider is doing this, I'm just acutely aware of all of those things. So in my practice, and then also when I'm training clinicians or working with a treatment team to develop their clinical program or increase the quality of their program, right, I'm always encouraging folks to call those outside providers to do a collaboration call to get all the treatment providers on the phone together to ensure that there's alignment.
00:12:29
Speaker
Alignment, even as a basic, right? Even are we all, can we all just compare notes and make sure that we all know what the others know? Right. it's It's extremely common for our clients to not be 100 percent accurate reporters.
00:12:42
Speaker
I think we'd all agree with that. Even me as that showing up to the doctor, I may say one bit of information to my primary care provider and then go to my dermatologist and share other bits.
00:12:54
Speaker
of information about my medical history. That's very normal. So for the providers to take the onus of responsibility, right? Providers talking to other providers, right? We're all the experts.
00:13:04
Speaker
Why aren't we talking with each other about what's going on with the patient, right? it's It's challenging for me to think about the patient being responsible for getting everyone up to speed, right? it It's a weird game of telephone.
00:13:16
Speaker
Obviously it does take time. And it can be a little tricky to get providers on the phone with other folks, but I think it's always worth it. Even if you do it later on or like mid treatment, it's never too late to compare notes with other professionals to make sure that we all know as much as we can and that we're all of our interventions or approaches are all supporting one another as opposed to something that could look like like a contraindication or working with providers who maybe have different approaches that could end up doing harm to the client.
00:13:46
Speaker
Awesome. and One of the other things that pinged me about your website, it says you work primarily with couples. Is it easier to work with couples, harder than individuals, or is it just different? Compare it to why why do you work with couples versus individuals?
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think for me, working with systems actually is more comfortable. I show up to my work with my arms stretched out really far. Like I want to hold that much information. Like that's where my mind goes. I see solutions coming in from a systems perspective.
00:14:17
Speaker
When I'm working with a family, right, I'm wanting as many folks available to that treatment process as possible. When I'm working with an organization, i want to wrap my arms around as many levels of the system as possible. So for me, it's not that it's easier or harder. It's just actually more comfortable for me because of the way that I think about how systems change this of change, right? If you're moving just one piece together,
00:14:41
Speaker
of a system forward, the likelihood if the system around it is not also shifting forward, the likelihood that effort backtracks, because I see that as the change process, it's actually much easier. it actually feels like I'm going to have more success in making progress with this system if I'm actually able to work with more people. The more people, the better. That makes perfect sense. That's actually a great segue to let's switch over to your more organizational system based work.
Leadership Coaching in Behavioral Health
00:15:09
Speaker
You do a lot of mentoring, leadership coaching, that kind of thing. What draws you to to that aspect of leadership?
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah. So I think two things, right? I mentioned before that I've been in those roles. I have worked as a clinical supervisor, as a middle manager, as an executive. So I think my lived experience and some of my own some of my own experiences around challenge or maybe lack of support. support or some of the confusion in being an early career leader. right There's lots of question marks on what am I doing and is this the right way to do it? And can someone show me the way? Is there a best practice for this or am I just making this up?
00:15:50
Speaker
I think me having felt that and then also having heard that from a lot of leaders in my community, i think has always compelled me to want to support leaders in my peer group or across the field. So I think that's why I'm drawn to leadership development. I'm drawn to wanting to... I actually conducted mixed methods research this past fall, where I had a survey, like a self-report survey about leadership journeys across the behavioral health field, and then also did interviews. with executives across the field to really learn about the leadership journey, how people came into being in the leadership role and then all of the the bumps and the twists and turns and successes that the leaders experience over time, right? To try to understand the solution, right? Like, how can I be of support? I really care about the leaders in our field. And I think about a lot of the most impactful,
00:16:44
Speaker
influence in organizational health starts with the leaders. So I think for both of those reasons, like my own personal lived experience as a leader and wishing that I had a different kind of a resource or training or a mentor along the way.
00:16:59
Speaker
And then also seeing that working with leaders is also just smart. from an organizational health perspective, as far as a point of entry, like there's no better way to enter an organization to be able to influence change or be able to set an organization up for success than starting with the leaders, of course.
00:17:16
Speaker
I'm a bit of a word nerd to which anybody who knows me, what a shocker. And I'm curious in your mind, what is the difference between mentoring and coaching? Because they both are the same thing, but they are different too.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's a really great question. And i'll start by saying there's a lot of overlap. There's a lot of overlap because some mentors, my first reaction is coaching is more structured and you pay for coaching. So there's a contract, there's goals, there's a structure to the meeting session.
00:17:46
Speaker
things that you're checking in on. The coach may send you follow-up notes or point you to resources or so it's a structured kind of goal focused experience. Whereas mentorship would be an informal relationship. There may not be a reoccurring meeting for it. It may be more casual in nature, right? If the mentor is available and if you're available, then you call them up and get some advice. But, and it can be, that can be very powerful, right? A mentorship can be extremely powerful. But I'll also say there are mentorship relationships out there that are much more structured. So that's not a it's not a catch all in that to say that mentorship is not a structured thing. But typically the big a bigger designation is that a coach is usually following a coaching model.
00:18:32
Speaker
There's a bit more structure to the session of the the methodology of coaching as a modality of ah as a helping professional. And then mentorship is probably based more on like personalities and their availability and how much structure those two people want to put into it.
00:18:50
Speaker
But both are fantastic options for leaders. And while we're still on leadership, a quick plug, just a few days from recording this ago, we just did a webinar on clinical supervision.
00:19:01
Speaker
I don't know when this podcast is going to be out, but it's obviously going to be available on our website. Free for NBHAP members, $50 for non-NBHAP members, and you do get 1 CE if you get it. So thank you for letting me plug that.
00:19:14
Speaker
ge Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit more about some of the other
Approach to Organizational Change Management
00:19:18
Speaker
aspects. You talk about change management. Obviously, people, for the most part, struggle with being able to change, and it is very difficult. So walk me through how you work with change management.
00:19:30
Speaker
So change management for me, and I guess I want to back up a little bit and just talk about what that means, because it is it is any kind of change, right? Even from ah like a micro perspective, the example that you gave before, like even changing doctors, going from this doctor to this doctor, even if they have the same credentials and are in the same building, there's still nuanced micro changes that are going to happen there. And from um various folks perspective, that change can be experienced.
00:19:54
Speaker
It can be experienced with no problem at all, no friction, very easy to get from the current state to the future state where the change, once the changes happens. But for other reasons, it could be extremely challenging for another person to be able to navigate that change. I think, you know, when I'm thinking about organizational change management, I'm really scaling that out.
00:20:15
Speaker
to looking at growth, transformation, any kind of a change initiative that's happening on an organizational level. right So zoom that all the way out and thinking about having 200 people all go through the same change together, right going from this system to this system, going from this office to this office.
00:20:34
Speaker
going from this electronic health record system to this electronic, that could be a nightmare. Very complicated, very nuanced, very long-term project that is high impact, high risk.
00:20:46
Speaker
When I'm talking about organizational change management, that's the realm that I am highly invested in. is looking at kind of enterprise level ah changes that are maybe, maybe are required, right? Maybe they're externally motivated. This is just something that has to happen and we need to do it. Like we don't have a choice in the matter and here we go. Or it could be something that's strategically motivated, right? Something that is on a strategic plan or that we're moving forward with because we think it's going to increase something helpful, right?
00:21:19
Speaker
in the company, right? Some operational efficiency or patient care or any kind of an indicator, performance indicator in your company. So being able to help, I see investing my career at this point and my services in change management is it's really a service to helping the organization as a whole make it through the change process in one piece.
00:21:44
Speaker
That's the dream, right? All organizations, especially in our field, there's dynamic change. external change, internal change, small change, big change, right? Like these things are happening. It can feel rapid and turbulent, right? But my dream is that the organizations can navigate that experience and hang on for the ride, right? That it won't it won't have a detrimental effect on the workforce. It won't create ah like a culture misalignment. It won't create a retention issue on the other side or impact the
00:22:18
Speaker
patients and families experience of care. Wouldn't it be great if that's the way change could feel? Like that's my dream and why I've jumped all the way into the deep end on change management, right? Because there are so many strategies and solutions to be able to help organizations get there, right? be able to help organizations navigate even very large changes that maybe aren't very popular. Being able to do that in a way that will decrease any kind of a performance impact, it'll allow you to mitigate any kind of resistance that you may experience or any kind of misalignment that may play out, right? There's a whole field and change management methodologies out there that help help smooth the ride for everyone involved.
00:23:01
Speaker
Now, you just mentioned that there there are a dozen different ways things can change, and ah but you also are talking about methodologies. Without giving away all of your secrets, what are some of the people you should keep in mind or some of the advice you would give in that field?
00:23:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. There are certain parts of change management. It's a comprehensive methodology. It looks at every nook and cranny of assessing the organization, all facets of the organization, strategizing about everything you could possibly imagine, and then planning for every scenario, every every audience, every potential reaction and response. right So it's very comprehensive, but there are, to answer your question, there are a few areas that I love. So stakeholder engagement is one of them. right The idea of proactively, right when I'm talking about stakeholders, that's anyone in the organization or outside of the organization who would be impacted by the change in a small large way. So that's your workforce. It could be your patients and families. It could be your community partners, vendors, referral sources, payers.
00:23:59
Speaker
Right. Like it goes as wide as it goes. So the idea of doing stakeholder engagement is really slowing down. Right. So prior to launching a change or going live with the change, right, you would spend quite a bit of time assessing, assessing your stakeholders, assessing different types of stakeholder groups as different types of audiences that you may need to be communicating with about a change or about the why behind a change.
00:24:25
Speaker
Stakeholder engagement is a big part of the getting the system ready, getting the system ready to receive whatever is coming in its direction. I think a lot of times, a lot of the focus is put on what is the change? What are we going to do? Because we need to solve a problem or we need to respond to something. And then we need to get organized about getting all that together and then notifying everyone. And then the end, but we told everybody and we delivered that new policy. But the change management side is about getting the people ready, getting those stakeholders ready, right? Various different stakeholder groups who have different needs, different communication channels that they use, potentially different experiences of the change, right? It may be low impact for some groups. It may be extremely high impact for other groups, right? All all types of different reactions and responses will come up if you really zoom in on different types of groups that you're working with. And you can design, honestly, it's like designing or customizing a plan for this user group versus this user group.
00:25:30
Speaker
right? Like what's, what kind of messaging or what kind of a strategic communication are we going to give for the folks who work at on that unit or in that region, right? Do we need a different type of plan or engagement plan for folks who are on this team or have this type of ah credential because they are more motivated by this, or they really look at this problem from this lens, right? So stakeholder engagement can be customized communication plans. It can be customized ways of getting leaders of the change in front of people and compelling compelling different groups to understand the change, understand the why behind the change.
00:26:10
Speaker
Different stakeholder groups or can also be influenced in different ways, right? They may trust. Trust is a big part of this process, right? When you're looking at stakeholder engagement, there may be one sector of your workforce who really trusts one leader in particular.
00:26:26
Speaker
or they're much more on board for this type of a change or they can see it. They can see it up close maybe, right? Like they're gonna understand it and it's really useful to them. So they're like, yes, absolutely.
00:26:38
Speaker
Bring this change forward. so that's a different type of a group. And you would engage that group differently with different resources or efforts than you would a stakeholder group that has no idea what this is about. who is still going to impact them, but they're not. They haven't been read in on this. This is all brand new to them. right You would have a, in theory, right if you're going to do strategic stakeholder engagement, you would engage that group differently because you're going to be looking at all of these different groups and customizing plans, engagement plans for folks all across the company so that people are as ready as they can be right prior to that change coming in their direction. When I brought this up, I said that almost everybody is hesitant to embrace change, even when the changes are positive. My immediate thought is like when trying to lose weight, what's healthier, but
00:27:28
Speaker
yeah you are way to those sodas are just way too good. Along those same lines, you also do conflict resolution because obviously change and there's some friction there. Talk a little bit more about your work as conflict resolution.
Leadership and Workforce Tensions During Change
00:27:44
Speaker
Is it, and this is delving into gesturing at the world, is it getting worse? I think, I'm not sure from a, but in the behavioral health field, if a conflict or dissonance is getting worse,
00:27:58
Speaker
I guess I see some of that conflict or that dissonance as resonating between the folks who are making the decision about the change, who that subsystem that's usually going to be your leadership team or decision makers in the organization, right? They perhaps are in alignment about it and they understand why, they understand why now, the importance, what's at stake, potential consequences, right? Like they're all on the same page, right? And then the decisions made to do this. right And the other folks, maybe like the other chunk of the workforce, is is not in alignment with that or not in alignment with that yet. And that tension that exists, perhaps with leaders who it would be easier
00:28:38
Speaker
It would be easier if everyone could just snap into alignment, right? but Here's the announcement. This is what's happening. It's a fact. It's happening one way or the other. Can everybody just get on board?
00:28:50
Speaker
You know, wouldn't that be nice? But that's not the way that human relationships work. In a couple relationship, in a family, between a parent and child, even. Even though the parent is the boss, right? This is what we're doing. we're going to the We're going to the grocery store now.
00:29:04
Speaker
Wouldn't it be nice if my child just said, oh yeah, perfect, let's go? Never. Zero percent chance of my child saying high five, meet you at the park. 0% chance. So it's wild, right? When you look at conflict resolution or mitigating resistance from the the workforce or an organizational perspective, that leaders, right, would have the expectation or the hope that the workforce could just quickly, quickly align or quickly get on board, snap to and arrive and just adopt that change with open arms. So sometimes that feels like conflict. Sometimes that feels like resistance that can create a lot of frustration and tension.
00:29:40
Speaker
in the in the system, in the system, in the company, right? So I see myself as as really wanting to support leaders in understanding resistance, right? What is resistance? It's not always lack of cooperation or a poor attitude.
00:30:00
Speaker
Like that's a small fraction of what resistance is actually about. But sometimes that's how it feels. We're trying to deliver, this is the change and it's required. And could you please just come along and just do this now? Wouldn't it be nice? Leaders can feel that that friction. It can feel like resistance. It can feel like lack of cooperation. And then obviously it's feeling like that from the workforce perspective as well, right? It feels potentially leadership doesn't understand the needs or the experience of the workforce. Nobody asked me. That's a very common statement. Nope. Why is this happening? If anyone would have asked us,
00:30:36
Speaker
they would have known that this was not going to work, but they didn't. And here here comes the solution or here comes through this this policy change, or they would have just asked us, we would have told them that this was going to happen.
00:30:47
Speaker
So that's the conflict, right? That kind of that tension that exists between the experience, the needs and the experience of the workforce, and then the kind of the strategic priorities really needs of ah the decision makers in the organization.
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, a good example of what you were talking about. I one of my prior jobs was working for a startup that worked for an app that where a good chunk of us was basically phone support and they moved to a bigger building.
00:31:14
Speaker
But the building itself had a high ceilings that I was like, you do know that the noise in here is going to be massive because of those. Did you not even i was like, did you not even think about that? and Did you not even think about that? Yeah. This has had have a huge impact.
00:31:33
Speaker
on a basic functioning of our work. Exactly. Functioning. Yeah. Now, again, i don't want you to give away all of your secrets, but what kind of advice or what kind of suggestions would you give for someone who wanted to resolve a conflict?
00:31:46
Speaker
Resolve a conflict. Yeah. I always give the, and this is for any team, any leader who's going into a conversation like this, a couple to always approach the conversation or the interaction.
00:31:59
Speaker
from the position of a very curious scientist. I like that. Very curious, right? So imagine your ears are open, but you're also like highly invested in this, right? So like your heart's also open. You're listening with your ears and your heart, but you're a scientist. So you're very neutral.
00:32:17
Speaker
You don't have your own agenda. You're not working your own hypothesis, right? You're just going in to collect data. collect data, but you're very curious and you're really listening, right? so you're also going to ask questions. you're going to make sure you understand things because you're a scientist. You want to get it just right to always go in with that to start, right? if If even one person, one member of the system can go in with that kind of a, that kind of a mentality or approach, it can completely shift the dynamic, the dynamic of any system that is trying to work through different needs, different preferences, different points of view.
00:32:51
Speaker
Now, you've been in the industry for 15 years. i always like to ask people who've been in the industry a while, in your mind, what has been the biggest change you've seen over the past 15 years? What are some of the things that you've seen that you're seeing now that you didn't see then or vice versa that you don't see now that you used to see then?
00:33:07
Speaker
That is a, that's a great question. And maybe I can think, i can think through different types of systems, but what's coming to mind first and a type of change I have a lot of visibility on currently is the rapid expansion, the rapid development of private practices. group therapy practices, private practices that are operating in communities, and the rapid acceleration of therapists coming out of their graduate programs and transitioning into being an independent practitioner who are then becoming business owners.
00:33:41
Speaker
business owners and managers, people managers and leaders of companies very early on in their careers. It's not uncommon. Again, this has been the case for as long as I as long as i know. and in the leadership interviews that I did, there's a lot of consensus on this, is that there's not a lot of formal leadership development,
Need for Leadership Training in Private Practices
00:34:00
Speaker
right? People manager skills, leadership approach,
00:34:03
Speaker
teaching leaders about communication, teaching leaders about best ways to approach the workforce or engage folks and build culture. there's not ah There's not a lot that we're doing for our leaders or that they have access to. So I think that's pretty consistent across the field. But the rapid movement of early career therapists, then like opening a company and then hiring people to work for them, that's a profound change that I'm seeing popping up a lot, like all over, all across the nation. As virtual practices are, completely virtual practices are very common. The simplicity that you can find out there and starting up a private practice in two days, there's there's very low barriers. It's a low threshold for a therapist to be able to open their own company and to start hiring folks to work for them.
00:34:55
Speaker
And again, you're giving me a great opportunity to plug some of NBHAP's resources. We do have a couple of webinars that are on but leadership and that kind of stuff. Now, I want you to look into your crystal ball and tell me where are you see the industry going in the next few years, five to 10 years.
00:35:10
Speaker
Where I see the industry going in the next few years, I'm going to be extremely hopeful and and optimistic, right? Because i as I said before, like I i see a world, I see ah a behavioral health field where all of the organizations are embracing, they're embracing innovation. They're embracing principles around organizational development. They're embracing the value add of leadership development, bringing that in-house or allowing their leaders to to seek out those types of services and resources. It's the elevation, right? The element of elevation. Our mature, our field can mature and elevate and it can survive, right? That's the hope and that's why I'm doing the work that I'm doing. I want to be part of that.
00:35:56
Speaker
I'm here to be part of that mission helping elevate organizations to be healthier, to use proven methodologies that's being used widely across other more mature industries, right? I want for us to grow into all of that, to have room and space, curiosity, open-mindedness from leaders and decision-makers to bring in new methodologies, new ways of doing things to be to be creative, to be innovative. like that is That's the hope.
00:36:28
Speaker
That's the dream. That's what I have in this crystal ball. I've got all my pennies riding on it. That is a good way to look at it. yeah Now, if you could travel back in time to when you were first starting, what what piece of advice would you give yourself? What is the biggest lesson lesson you've learned over the years?
Challenges of Over-functioning in Unsupportive Systems
00:36:45
Speaker
The biggest lesson that I've learned over the years, this is a bit personal and it goes into that leadership, the the things that I learned and hard lessons along the way about the role of the leader. I think a hard lesson that yeah I learned and that leaders, i help there's a lot of leaders that that ah unfortunately experienced this and but can do some damage is leaders who find their cell find themselves in a place of of over-functioning.
00:37:12
Speaker
over-functioning in their role, right, in their level and their little spot in the organization, over-functioning to try to create health and stability and peace for their team, for their service line, for their location, and working overtime and in overdrive to be able to, to be able to Do that right in in a system that is not supporting that, that is not also on board for stabilization or safety or inclusivity, perhaps not using a trauma informed approach, being being one one leader.
00:37:49
Speaker
In the mix of many, right, in an organization that is that's not functioning that way, I think is it extremely challenging. And to do that long term over time, i think does quite a bit of damage to leaders in our field. Some leaders that I've talked to have called it like moral injury.
00:38:08
Speaker
Moral injury, right? I'm here to do this. I'm trying to do right. I'm trying to stabilize. I'm trying to keep the mission focused. And this is what I'm here to do. my My heart and my soul and I'm pouring everything that I've got into doing this work. And it's not it's not being supported or amplified elsewhere in the company. It can it can feel very not only...
00:38:31
Speaker
fatiguing for that leader, right? We do run out of energy eventually, but it can feel like demoralizing to do that, right? To find ourselves in this this over-functioning role, trying to fix things, do the cleanup, patch everything together as everything's shifting around you. And I think we lose a lot of good leaders that way.
00:38:49
Speaker
I've certainly, I've tried that out multiple times. I didn't learn the lesson the first time. Sometimes we think it'll work differently the next time. We we hop to the next system. We find our way back into that over-functioning role. We didn't but have the t-shirt. yeah Maybe I need to learn that lesson twice, but it does take a toll on you. It does take a toll on you So yeah, in retrospect, that i would wish i wish that I would have, but how great would it have been to have a mentor or a coach who specialized in organizational development or leadership or having those resources early on very early on. And your leadership experience can prevent, it can mitigate a lot of that wear and tear that are happening, that's happening on the leaders. Yeah, I would love love if i had that. That'd be awesome. And I hope that many others can find their way into a leadership development service really early on in their career.
00:39:42
Speaker
Now, our audience is wide ranging. We have everybody from people who've been in the industry for years, as well as people who are just starting out. What is some of the advice or some of the tips that you would give them in terms of what to do, how to find out more or what to get, what to do, what you do?
00:39:56
Speaker
What my role is. Yeah. So specifically around change management, I have asked folks, like, how did you even find your way into that industry? Like, how did you become, how are therapist and you found your way? over into this. so the the Association for Change Management is called the Association for Change Management Professionals. It's the be all end all of change management. It's an international organization. They have, but you can get a membership where you get access to all of their resources tons of resources, anything that you'd ever want to know about change management tools, templates, strategies, webinars, PowerPoints. It's like a tool bonanza in that organization. So even getting your hands on the tools or being able to watch a webinar right by getting a membership, that'll get you a long way.
00:40:41
Speaker
just in getting your hands on the methodology, right? If you're, if folks are interested in doing more advanced training, there's lots of really great certification programs out there. ProSci is one of those companies.
00:40:54
Speaker
Cotter with a k is another at one of the companies. They both offer advanced training in organizational change management and a certification track as well. And even just getting on their mailing list.
00:41:06
Speaker
If you can find those companies and you can just get on the mailing list and attending a free webinar here and there, I think any little bit of information or education or advice right that folks can they can get access to around change management would go a
Deepening Skills in Change Management
00:41:21
Speaker
long way. And if folks are interested in going all the way into full certification like I did, obviously it's there's ah it's an advanced training and then an exam, an exam to to get to the point that you have a CCMP, which is a certified, becoming a certified change management professional.
00:41:38
Speaker
That's all the way in the deep end for change management. Okay. We're getting close to the end of the interview. What is the hardest part or your least favorite of your job, part of your job or what you do?
00:41:51
Speaker
The hardest part or my least favorite part? but I think it's it's for me, obviously, I'm extremely passionate about the topics related to organizational development and leadership development, right? That part of organizational performance, like organizational health. I'm very passionate about it. I'm not going to let go.
00:42:13
Speaker
I'm here and I'm committed and this is what I want to do. But not all organizations in our field are ready or they're not ready. They are not at a point of maturity that they can they can receive more elevated methodologies. A lot of our organizations are pretty scrappy.
00:42:32
Speaker
they're pretty scrappy, right? There's a lot of, we're going to do it ourselves and we're all here for the mission and we all chime in and we're going to make this work. And that's more of the philosophy and the mentality. It's a huge strength.
00:42:44
Speaker
And I have something different to offer, right? I have a more sophisticated methodology. Let me bring this to you. So I think what what's challenging is that I very much believe in the value added of integrating change management methodologies or leadership development programs into your into organizations. But not all companies are ready for it.
00:43:05
Speaker
Not all companies are ready for it or may not have the resources for it. That's also heartbreaking that I'll talk with executives or owners who will say, this is absolutely what we need.
00:43:16
Speaker
And we don't have the budget for it. We're so stretched in our margins. We're so stretched. We have to prioritize payroll. We have to prioritize marketing. We have to... There are so many other hot, high priority pain points that, of course, I understand I've been there.
00:43:32
Speaker
I understand why the resources go where they go and what's going to be at the priority. But I also see the health of the organization as a whole as being a priority. So I would say a long... but my My long answer Is that's what feeling, feeling that tension, right? Knowing how valuable these types of services and this type of a focus can be for organizations. Like I can see it and they can see it, but we can't always get it there in the timeline that folks would really be benefiting from it.
00:43:59
Speaker
Now on the opposite, what's your
Personal Satisfaction in Coaching and Resources
00:44:01
Speaker
favorite part? What part do you just makes you shiver all over? Yeah. I love leadership coaching. One-on-one leadership coaching. Absolutely. If that could be what I did every day, just talking with leaders about what's going on for them professionally, what's going on for them personally, how they're showing up and doing their work, what kind of questions they have, letting them vent.
00:44:27
Speaker
and being a support to them and helping them organize what they're thinking and why and what helping them get up into more of a strategic thinking space when they're really caught in the whirlwind. It's wildly rewarding for me to be able to help leaders stabilize in how they're doing and then being able to get some clarity and approach. And then being able to feel, i think that being able to do bits of knowledge transfer as well, right? Little bits of knowledge transfer, little bits of learning, steering leaders towards resources that are really specific to what they're going through right now. That's also very valuable, very valuable to them and very rewarding for me to feel like I can get right in there behind them or beside them and and set them up for success.
00:45:09
Speaker
That is a by far my favorite part of my job. And so this is a reframing of the first question that I asked you off the top of your mind. First thoughts. Why do you do what you do? i do what I do because i have a kind of an overwhelming, an overwhelming driving passion to preserve the beautiful treatment experiences that are out there.
00:45:37
Speaker
Right. my My belief that transformative care is out there. It's important. It's successful. It saves lives. I know I've seen so many programs that are that are transformative, right? that are That can really make a difference for people, for their families and the lives of so many people who need it. I know that to be true. And then I also see the system around it.
00:46:04
Speaker
right How the organizations that are that are building those programs can strengthen and help those programs survive and grow and replicate. right There's so much beauty and potential for growth to increase access to care, but there's also such a precarious a precarious piece of the system that could come through that would damage that beautiful clinical program right or that beautiful service line in some way. right So I do what I do out of ah this desire to protect.
00:46:34
Speaker
transformative programming and to empower and strengthen the workforce that makes all of those services a reality, right? Like that's what I'm here to do.
00:46:45
Speaker
Now, I'd like to ask everybody near the end for, again, for people who might be interested in learning more, what kind of resources do you use on a regular basis? What kind of magazines, books, whatnot would you recommend? I know we talked a little bit about that already, but is there anything else that comes to mind in terms of you would steer people towards if they wanted to learn more about it?
00:47:03
Speaker
Yeah, the first, yep. So just to dip back in on those change management resources. So ACMP, the Association of Change Management Professionals, I would absolutely recommend that organization even to get ah a membership just one time around to get access to all of their resources. And it's not just about change management. They they scope out into project management and process improvement and leadership, and you'll get a lot of resources out of that.
00:47:27
Speaker
signing up for the Cotter, that company, or the ProSci, either of those two organizations, getting access to their webinars or their newsletters and resources. One leadership organization and kind of resource hub that I also really, it's called the Center for Creative Leadership.
00:47:44
Speaker
It has more of a a personalized leadership approach as opposed to just upskilling like Leadership 101. It has more of a, yeah, like a creative component, growth oriented, more of that kind of the person of the therapist.
00:47:57
Speaker
I think I would recommend that as a great resource for leaders. Okay. So for people who want to get in touch with you, where can they find you? Yeah, folks can find me at the, so the company that I am launching this summer is called Snowdrop Systems.
00:48:13
Speaker
This will be a hub where folks can find information on all the services that I specialize and we talked about here today. Change management consulting, leadership development, coaching and training. And then also facilitation. So I also facilitate workshops, team building trainings, any kind of a a team meeting facilitation need. So all of that information can be found there and you can get in contact with me there as well. Those can find me on LinkedIn. You can just look up Martha Rackets on LinkedIn. Happy to connect there as well. And then I do have a a clinical page, right, for couples therapy, for clinical supervision and any type of a clinical need. Folks can find me at my my other professional clinical website, which DrMarthaRacketts.com.
00:48:56
Speaker
Awesome. You've been listening to Destination Change. Our guest today was Dr. Martha Rackets. Thank you for being here. Our theme song is Sun Nation by Kitsa and used via a Creative Commons license by the Fremont Music Archive.
00:49:08
Speaker
Please consider rating and reviewing the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can get more listeners. In the meantime, you can always see more about the podcast, including show notes and where else to listen. on our website, www.nbhap.org. If you have any questions for the podcast, please email us at info at nbhap.org.
00:49:26
Speaker
Thanks for listening.