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Episode 21: Julie Seitz with All Rise
39 Plays17 days ago
Julie Seitz is a Project Director with the Impaired Driving Solutions (IDS), All Rise (formerly NADCP) division, providing training and technical assistance to the treatment court field. Julie joined IDS in 2018, bringing 20 years of experience working in the clinical sector and community program development. Before joining IDS, Julie was the clinical director of an internationally recognized treatment center offering the entire continuum of clinical care, including a first-of-its-kind direct access opioid withdrawal unit, where she was the project lead. As a published author and clinician, she has spent the last 20 years of her career giving clients a voice. Her work with clients has focused feedback informed, research, and outcome-driven practice. Julie has trained at the local, national, and international levels.
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Transcript
Introduction to Destination Change
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Destination Change, a podcast where we talk recovery, treatment, and more. I'm your host, Nancy Fiedler-Sutton, with the National Behavioral Health Association providers. I use she-her pronouns.
Introducing Julie Seitz
00:00:20
Speaker
Today's guest is Julie Seitz. Julie is a project director with the impaired driving solutions, IDS, all-rise division, providing training and technical assistance to the treatment court field.
00:00:30
Speaker
Julia joined IDS in 2018, bringing 20 years of experience working in the clinical sector and community program development. Before joining IDS, Julia was the clinical director of an internationally recognized treatment center, offering the the entire continuum of clinical care, including a first-of-its-kind direct access opioid withdrawal unit, where she was the project lead. As a published author and clinician, she has spent the last 20 years of her career giving clients a voice. Her work with clients has focused feedback-informed research and outcome-driven practice.
00:01:00
Speaker
Julie has trained at the local, national, and international levels. Thanks for joining us today, Julie. Thank you for having me. I always like to start with origin questions.
Julie's Career Journey
00:01:08
Speaker
does though So how did you get into this field versus all the other job options that are out there?
00:01:14
Speaker
I know that's i you know it's one of my favorite questions, so I'm super glad you asked. I am a social worker by trade. i just I feel like it's important to start with, even back when I went to college, I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, right? I thought I was going to be a nurse. I got into my first nursing class, hard pass. Thanks for all the nursing folks out there. And so my advisor said, you should be a social worker.
00:01:38
Speaker
I get into the social work class classes, did that. It was a natural fit. I did some really amazing internships, mostly medical social work. And then they said, go get a job, my parents. I was like, wait, what? And so here I was. And I thought I wanted to work with adolescents. I certainly was in the mental health work, in the medical model of the hospitals. I was working in the the medical social work clinics.
00:02:02
Speaker
And the organization that I worked for for 20 years, the Center for All-Conjunct Treatment, was offering a position for an adolescent entry-level position in their adolescent substance use disorder program. And that's where I started. And Angie, it is where I found what I wanted to do forever. I had no clue, and I think that's like a a testament to You know, when we're young, we but I mean, sometimes we know exactly what we're meant to do and go and do all those amazing things. But this pathway and this journey, I have found my calling, I have found my people, I have found my passion, and it has led it has led me it has led me to here. I mean, I'm just jazzed about it. So that's how it all started. Great.
Overview of All Rise
00:02:43
Speaker
Let's talk a little bit about All Rise. give me the effort For those who may be unfamiliar with the program, kind of give me the elevator pitch of what what the organization does.
00:02:52
Speaker
the elevator pitch of all rise. So we are formally the National Association of Drug Court Professionals. So a lot of folks would understand that that from that perspective. We've been around for 30 years and we are the leading organization for training, technical assistance, and all things drug treatment courts. um we I think if you can appreciate like how the world is evolving. We were once really identified as drug treatment courts and now we are really appreciating that we are more about treatment courts and recovery courts and looking at this through a more, well and I'm sure we'll talk about this, a recovery lens. So we provide all the training and technical assistance. We do a majority of the research on best practices for
00:03:37
Speaker
treatment courts and and what's happening in our field. And so we are one of the largest agencies providing services to the thousands of treatment court programs in the United States and beyond, really. Yeah. yeah Like you said, yeah, well, this is definitely a podcast where we talk about recovery. In fact, ah the big push behind destination change is the idea of ah recovery is a journey, not a destination that you can you can go, it you know, you can backtrack and you can have yeah issues and and keep going.
Individualized Recovery Pathways
00:04:06
Speaker
So talk a little bit about, you know, the work with ah recovery courts and what that does. Yeah. And I mean, can we just appreciate how I think certainly the the justice legal system and even some of the the folks in in the treatment systems are really starting to appreciate recovery and the recovery focus as opposed to sort of this idea of
00:04:30
Speaker
It is a a destination. It is a determination. And so the work that we're doing is really helping people understand that the recovery pathway, the recovery journey is is multifaceted. It is complex. It is individualized, which can be very difficult.
00:04:50
Speaker
When working in a, in a justice legal system if you can appreciate that. And so really kind of, it has been an honor and a pleasure to be in this field, really recognizing just the complexity of the folks that we're working with, but then also that their journeys can look so different. And that is really what we spend an enormous amount of time training and teaching on is what are effective treatment interventions? Some of the treatment works for some of the people, some of the time. So what do we do and when those pathways need to be shifted and redirect or they aren't linear? you know Particularly in the treatment court systems, we tend to think linearly, time-driven, checkbox, and it has been,
00:05:34
Speaker
ah A significant shift in focus of what we're doing um while while appreciating the accountability and the supervision of our folks in the community is how do we put them on these individual pathways that they can adhere to long after we're gone?
Challenges in Treatment Practices
00:05:48
Speaker
What would you say is the hardest part of your job? That's a great question.
00:05:53
Speaker
So I think it it is and remains sort of the the, well, hey, you tell me, is it safe to talk about like policies and practices and like kind of like some of the the, I think sometimes it's very difficult for us to do amazing work and know what the evidence-based practices are out there when we have arbitrary requirements put on us. So I think the hardest part of the work that we do is when we end up with these arbitrary requirements that aren't allowing us to be as individualized as we need.
00:06:27
Speaker
If I can, I can provide a couple of examples. that There are times when we have when we work with states or programs or communities where they have a required set of hours, a required set of curriculum, a required set of you know fill in the blank, and it's not even based on what the clinical needs are, what the the the stage of change the client is in. So I think if and and that is definitely where I think our primary challenges lies. that but we The intent is we want everybody to get evidence-based practices, and we want them to get enough to to find their their recovery journey. But the impact is often these arbitrary requirements. And then, of course, the opposite question. What is the easiest or your most ah ah enjoyable part of the job?
Fulfillment in the Recovery Journey
00:07:15
Speaker
is and always has been the clients, the participants, the the people that we get to serve, and having the honor of being a part of their journey in whatever capacity that is. When I was a clinician, it was always the easiest and the best part of my my day was working with the clients. And to this day, we have alumni, we have participants that we get to you know get engaged with when we're in the communities. And so that continues to be my my easiest and favorite, working with the participants.
00:07:45
Speaker
Now like NBHAP all rise as a national organization and I'm sure like NBHAP you have to deal with the fact that like you said states are different every state has their own regulations and whatnot. How do you go about kind of coordinating that?
Training and Advocacy at All Rise
00:07:59
Speaker
That's a really great question. So our training modules are really designed the national standards perspective, always digging from science and research, evidence-based practices. States tend to do the same and then they tend to have some of their own requirements within that. What we tend what we what we do is we become as familiar with the state that we're working in or the community that we're working in when we go and do trainings.
00:08:24
Speaker
and address it through that lens. And sometimes ah we encourage states to move and shift towards the the national ah recommendations.
00:08:36
Speaker
if they're conflicting. Now, one of the things we also ah talk about a lot is, you know, recovery capital and the idea that ah the very the the importance of recovery capital and in the recovery journey. Can you talk a little bit about that? Absolutely. We've started to really emphasize the importance of recovery capital, and I think The best, when I train on this, the one of the things I say the most is that historically, when we come out come to and work with our our folks in the the field, whether it's treatment courts or even in clinical practice, all of our assessments are typically
00:09:09
Speaker
disorder, dysfunction, and problem-driven, right? um And the beautiful thing about Recovery Capital is it really is about what people are coming to. It is a strength-based perspective. It is about what they but they already have and what they need to make you know initiate and sustain recovery. So we are taking it through this lens of what clients or what participants already have, what resiliencies already exist, and then where do we help them build upon that. So I think that's a huge shift for us because when you look at like power dynamics and how how you know treatment courts, even sometimes treatment is has taken this approach of I'm big, you're small, I'm right, you're wrong, and recovery capital shifts it to really appreciating what the client knows they already have and what they can can build upon ah for their recovery journey.
00:10:04
Speaker
And of course, look at where they need to you know expand or build their recovery capitals as well.
Evolution of Personalized Treatment
00:10:11
Speaker
Now in your bio, I mentioned that you have 20 years of experience. um Obviously 20 years is is a lot of time. ah What would you say is some of the biggest changes that you've seen in the industry?
00:10:21
Speaker
Oh, you know, that I think giving clients voice and choice. ah When I first started in this field, um I was it wasn't quite interning. What do you call it? Kind of like ah um a new counselor where you're you're shadowing and and being trained in. And I was being trained in with a a clinician who was great, and she was ah been in the field for a long time at that point in her her career as well. Everybody had the same treatment plan. Didn't matter. like It didn't matter why you came in, what you came in for, how you came in, what your what your goals were, what what stage of change you were in. It didn't matter. Everybody had the same treatment plan. and I think the biggest change I've seen in the field is really starting to allow clients some of that autonomy and recognition that like even when they maybe have pre-contemplation
00:11:10
Speaker
or this ambivalence of not wanting to change, we can still work with that. and That's perfectly normal. and that That is part of what our job is as clinicians is to help you know help them gain insight, help them build the skills. right so I think that's been but because I've been around for that long. right so I think that's been one of the biggest shifts.
00:11:31
Speaker
and then really just i mean watching us evolve into a full continuum of care and really right from in intervention and prevention all the way to maintenance and everything in between and really appreciating the complexities of the full continuum of care and that people don't have to move through them linearly. lin Yeah, lineard am I saying that right? lineard its like and All words are made up.
00:11:59
Speaker
you're right so i just and That's been sort of a change because it used to be, this is how many hours, this is what you do, and if you don't do it this way, you're you know the client's the failure. and i think we need to be I'm really hoping we're shifting towards treatment agencies and providers are really looking at, is it there's something that we're missing in our program, in our interventions that might better suit the client?
00:12:25
Speaker
Well, and that leads into my next question, kind of, not just trends, but where do you see the industry going in the next, you know, as five years or so?
Future of Substance Use Disorder Treatment
00:12:33
Speaker
In my utopian world? or like job in the way. do i think it's going to be i I'm excited about where it's going. I think we are moving towards an integrated model, a be a truly integrated model. I'm hoping we are shifting from thinking about substance use disorders as an acute illness, meaning you know you're diagnosed, you're treated, you're discharged to a more ah chronic condition model where we are fully integrated into
00:13:02
Speaker
you know, making sure people know how to address and and take care of their their substance use disorders, meaning, you know, right now in our current systems, if I'm diagnosed with a substance use disorder, I need to go in, I need to get an evaluation.
00:13:19
Speaker
I need to meet medical criteria in order to get into a a level of care and it can be very onerous. And if i were it was treated more like a chronic condition, i it would be like going to your primary doctor. When I'm feeling like I need to be seen for my symptoms, when I'm feeling like I'm becoming symptomatic or there's something off, we should just be able to go in and and see our providers. And we don't we aren't set up like that yet. So in my utopian world,
00:13:47
Speaker
And I think, i'm and I know I'm not alone in this, which is the great news, is I think we need to shift to that more. How do we help people engage in meaningful, connected recovery within their recovery management, which is all the services so that they can manage their recovery capital, which is what they have over the long term?
00:14:08
Speaker
That is a great answer. Back to kind of the idea of recovery as a journey, obviously treatment court is just one of the many possible steps on the recovery journey. um What would you say some of the barriers are for people to move forward in the recovery? Well, I think i think some of the things that we were talking about in regards to how substance use is treated it from an acute perspective, I mean, we have this idea. It is it is not entirely appreciated that recovery when we look at the research and the data about that it takes years and it can take multiple episodes like like other chronic illnesses. And so I think we have this this idea and stigma that still exists regarding about how people get ah services and treatment and then what said treatment is supposed to do, right? like
00:14:57
Speaker
it's still And if this is too callous or too outputting, we can take it out. But it's so like go to treatment. It's what's behind the curtain. You know what I mean? And then when everybody comes out of treatment, everybody's just supposed to be better as opposed to it really needs to be integrated in with people's families, communities, all the recovery capital components. Right. And I just think we are still but're we're getting there, but we're still appreciating that that that we I think we have society has expectations that people are are supposed to be definitive in their their decision and that it's not not more complicated than that.
00:15:36
Speaker
Great. um As your bio mentioned, you're a published author. Want to talk a little bit about what kind of things you've published? Absolutely. So a number of years ago, I wish I could remember the exact date. So when I worked at at at the clinic in Northern Minnesota that i that I got to work at, we did a ton of work with Dr. dr David B. Lee and Dr. Scott Miller. And one of the things that that we brought into our clinic and I think what's changed my lens on how we work with folks was called feedback informed treatment for deliberate practice.
00:16:06
Speaker
And what that is is an evidence based practice that really is engaging people in how do we know what we're doing in this treatment right now is effective are the outcomes producing the intended outcomes are is it positive is it negative or.
00:16:23
Speaker
even null. Are we not having any outcome? So we incorporated outcome measures in our clinical practices, including alliance measures. You know, one of the things that I think we we can really appreciate is that one of the best predictors for positive outcomes in substance use and mental health treatment is a positive therapeutic alliance. We know that, right? and But how do we measure it? So we did some beta testing on some some tools for in group settings, long story even longer. We really incorporated the feedback informed model and tools into our work. And because of the work we did, we were recognized for that. And I wrote some work. I've done some publications on that with Dr. Mee Lee. and And so I've done some of that. We've done some writing on and publications for the American Bar Association on impaired driving.
00:17:17
Speaker
and substance use disorders and effective treatment. So that's kind of some of the work that I've i've done. Now, our audience is a wide variety. We have everything from other clinicians to CEOs. So um one of the things i like to ah you know one of the things I'd like to know for for those who may do it, what are some of your suggestions for ah people or organizations that are working with treatment courts how you know to work better?
Forming Court-Community Partnerships
00:17:41
Speaker
We hear that a lot. um How do you work with the treatment courts? And that's a really great question because you know the courts have been this this in in their own silo for a long time, but truly to be, especially with treatment courts, for them to be effective, they really have to work.
00:17:58
Speaker
collaboratively with their community partners. and so So many of the people that they're seeing on the regular, whether it's through their their regular systems or through treatment courts, are engaged in the services in the community. so I think the the the best thing, and this is what we do a ton ah to to train and teach on, is about forming those collaborative partnerships in your community with your treatment providers, your social service systems, your recovery support systems, your recovery community organizations.
00:18:25
Speaker
so that when you are are working with the folks, they have access to all the services that and and supports that they need. Well, let's talk a little bit more about your training. kind of Give me, again, the elevator pitch of of what kind of trainings you offer, um how people can get involved, that kind of things.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yep, so we have, so some of our are primary trainings are foundational and operational two-nut trainings. So foundational trainings are three-day trainings where the entire team, so comprised of a judge, a prosecutor, a defense attorney, treatment providers, case managers, coordinators,
00:19:03
Speaker
peer recovery specialists, law enforcement officers. And so that is that the majority of our team. So when we look at it, that they all come together, they get three days of training on the adult treatment part best practice standards and how to put that into operation day to day.
00:19:19
Speaker
And so that looks like how do you how do you develop a a program with structure that meets the needs of the clients? How do you engage your community partners to make sure they're getting the services? How do you provide the appropriate supervision with probation and and supervising officers to ensure community safety, right? So we do three days of training there and then people leave that training ready to either ah start a a treatment court or they've had significant turnover in their team and they they need the foundation foundational practices. Operational tune-up tends to be for those programs that have been operational for a while and need to come to a two-day training on what's new, how do we revisit some of our policies and practices, and that we bring in experts subject matter experts from all over. We have hundreds of subject matter experts that we bring in and from all over the United States.
00:20:12
Speaker
ah to help facilitate these teams and develop their policies and their practices on site. And then we have more, we do a series of trainings depending on the year and how we go on practitioner trainings, diversity, equity and inclusion.
Significance of the RISE Conference
00:20:27
Speaker
We have a law enforcement track, we do technical assistance where it can be a little bit more catered to individual needs of the the communities. um And then of course, I don't know if I call it this. i This might not be all RISE, but I call it this. The Peace Daily Resistance is our our annual training that we do. It's called RISE. It is our annual conference this year. It's in Kissimmee, Florida. and That is where we bring 7,000 treatment court practitioners together annually, where there is just eight it is one of the best conferences and and schedules I've seen doing ah this kind of work for justice involved in substance use and
00:21:08
Speaker
um effective treatment so that is a little bit of what we do. We are a staff of about 50 and we are all out doing doing this full-time. I'm going to use this point to plug in BHAP that we do have a page of industry events. We do list your event among others so if you're interested in learning more about that you can also you'd not only go to the all arise but you can go to the BHAP website.
00:21:33
Speaker
Speaking of the AllRise website, you have an advocacy section. Let's talk a little bit about ah what kind of advocacy AllRise does. Absolutely. so we are I think we are about you know restorative justice and reform and really making sure that clients have and participants have access to the services that they need. so We have spent, you know whether it's through publications, whether it's through research, whether it's through our training, an enormous amount of time advocating for the therapeutic juists jurisprudence of of the work that we do. so We have
00:22:10
Speaker
podcast ourselves. We have an All-Rise magazine. We have all of our divisions that go out and do their own kind of targeted advocacy. The division that I work in, in Hair Driving Solutions, we do advocacy for keeping our community safe while ensuring participants are receiving the services that they need while looking at some of the policies and practices that could potentially be, I don't want to say change because I feel like that might just be indicative of of all, but i you know really looking at, is it best serving our community? so yeah we All of our divisions are working on on advocacy.
00:22:49
Speaker
great Now, ah like in behalf of the membership organization, what is your primary membership demographic? Gosh, that's a great question. I don't know that I can answer that off the top of my head. i i would have and I can only make assumptions. I don't know that I can answer that. or or what What kind of ah people make up, I guess, ah the membership?
00:23:09
Speaker
Typically, it is those that are serving or understand or whether it's through direct involvement in a treatment court or they are community partners with treatment court programs. So that is typically who are, you know, when I'm out there serving our members, they're in some way, shape, or form connected to a treatment court.
00:23:31
Speaker
if, why would someone want to join AllRise? Well, I think, you know, membership with AllRise is certainly something that I think we would want, you if you want to consider you A, it it provides you ongoing resources, it provides you ah with with what's new and you know certainly a connection. I think there's there's benefits to coming to our conference um at at a reduced membership price, but more importantly, just the the engagement and the the ability to be a part of a one of the most significant movements in the justice legal system that is is creating just an enormous pathway to change for those that are justice involved.
00:24:17
Speaker
Now, as I mentioned, our audience is comprised of a bunch of people, so I always like to ask if someone wanted to get into ah working with you know working in the justice involved field, what would be some of your advice?
00:24:29
Speaker
Well, a great question. It might vary from community to community, but if you have a a treatment cord in your community and most, i don't I want to be careful on how I say this, most would allow you to um you know engage in some conversations, maybe even observe a a court session, not a staffing, a court session. And if you're interested in becoming involved, whether it's through providing services, whether it's becoming a team member, reaching out to the coordinators or the judge of the team ah to to share about what you think you can bring to to the program.
00:25:09
Speaker
And oftentimes, I mean, we've been with we've worked with programs that have just, their team is just expansive of ah all the resources that are available in their community, making sure that no so stone goes unturned for what their their clients have access to. And a lot of that has to do with the outreach and the in-reach. So court programs outreaching to what's in their community and then community programs in-reaching to the courts.
00:25:34
Speaker
Well, speaking of resources, I normally ask you know what cut what cut resources you use on a regular basis, but AllRise has their own resource section on the website.
Adult Treatment Court Best Practices
00:25:43
Speaker
So talk a little bit about kind of some of the resources AllRise offers.
00:25:47
Speaker
I'm gonna talk about one, one in particular, and I'm gonna do this very deliberately and on purpose. The Adult Treatment Court Best Practice Standards is art one of our primary resources. It has its own tab. When I go out and do trainings, one of the first things I ask are are our folks that we're training that are involved in treatment courts, have you read the Adult Treatment Court Best Practice Standards?
00:26:12
Speaker
And when I hear no, I encourage people it is the primary thing. If you are going to be involved in a treatment court, please read the Adult Treatment Court Best Practice Standards. Now, can I appreciate that there's oh there's a lot to take in there? Absolutely. Absolutely. And like many of our college courses or maybe some of the other readings that we do,
00:26:36
Speaker
take it in bite-sized pieces, however you need to do it. We offer a podcast, we offer trainings, we offer a couple different ways that we can digest the adult treatment court best practice standards. It is, we not only do we have a ton of resources and literature and publications on nearly every topic in in the treatment courts,
00:26:56
Speaker
But I have to emphasize the Adult Treatment Court Best Practice Standards is one of the primary resources on how to operate a treatment court. So I get emails, I get phone calls, I get texts, whatever it might be about. Hey, what would you do in this circumstance? Or what about this? Or what do you what what's recommended? you know All these fill in the blanks. And every single time I reference the Adult Treatment Court Best Practice Standards because it's embedded in the research and it's embedded in practice.
00:27:24
Speaker
Now, aside from the AllRise website, what kind of resources do you or the organization go to on a regular basis, would you say? Oh, absolutely. So we regularly utilize SAMHSA, Substance Abuse Mental Health Service Administration, NIDA, National Institute of Drug Abuse.
00:27:39
Speaker
NAADAC, National Association of NAADAC, not forgetting the acronym, but you know making sure that we are relying on the field experts, the the national experts that guide us in our best practices as well.
00:27:56
Speaker
And then um what kind of advice would you give yourself if you could travel back in time to when you were first starting? You know, I've been asked that question before. The thing that that I tend to, I never said no. Like, do you want to do this? Yeah, I mean, like, sure, I had trepidation or I had pause or you know There was a lot of and and questions, but they looking back, never saying no to opportunity. And I would say to myself 20 years ago, don't hesitate. Just keep doing it. It has led me on this journey. I love this work. It is incredible. I'm passionate about it. It has been an honor to do what what we do. And it has been just a joy being a part of a larger systems change to ensure that people are getting ah their needs met.
00:28:43
Speaker
That is a perfect way to end this. um Was there something that you thought I was going to ask, but didn't, or that you wanted to talk about, but we haven't? I don't think so. What do you think? I always give that option because inevitably there's always something that somebody, you know, and every once in a while somebody's like, oh yeah, I wanted to talk about this. So I always want to make sure I give that option. Okay. Well, for those who ah may just be listening to this and not on the website, how can people get ahold of you or learn more about Allrise?
Contact and Learn More About All Rise
00:29:11
Speaker
Absolutely. So, www.allrise.org. And then in our resource tabs, you will see all of our different divisions. We have the impaired driving solutions divisions, the ah Justice for Vets division, the Treatment Court Institute, and our newest division, the Center for Advancing Justice. All of those divisions are there to serve our communities and our our Treatment Court community. So, that is an amazing resource. If you want to get a hold of me, my email and my contact is also there, Julie Seitz.
00:29:40
Speaker
at allrise.org, J sites at allrise.org. Great. You've been listening to Destination Change. Our guest today was Julie Seitz. Thank you for being here. Our theme song is Sun Nation by Kizza and used via Creative Commons license by the Free Music Archive. Please consider rating and reviewing the podcast on Apple Podcast so you can get more listeners. In the meantime, you can always see more about the podcast, including show notes and where else to listen on our website, www.nbhap.org.
00:30:07
Speaker
If your questions are for the podcast, please email us at info at NVHAP.org. Thanks for listening.