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Year In Beer 2024: Queensland
380 Plays1 month ago
We head to Queensland for the penultimate podcast of our Year In Beer 2024 series.
As with much of the local beer industry, it's been a challenging time for many in the state. A number of craft beer venues have closed or changed hands, the most high profile of which was Brewski, whose owners Ant and Matt joined us for an earlier show before rocking up with their new My Beer Dealer in Fortitude Valley.
Talking of high profile, the voluntary administration and, ultimately, sale of Black Hops Brewing to a new ownership team was among the most talked-about of all the littered the past 12 months in Australia. But, even here, the changes that brought led to an unexpected opportunity for two of the guests on this episode: Phil Sharp and Daniel Venema of Hiker Brewing.
They took ownership of Black Hops Brisbane and converted it to their second home, a move they hadn't expected to make for a couple of years yet. However, such a decision feels very in keeping with the brewery's fine start to life.
The founders discuss the lean and mean, community-centric ethos that's brought them to this point, the opportunities for smaller, locals-focused breweries to step in as the new pokie-free pub, their fondness for Working Title's beers, and how they were the real winners of the GABS Hottest 100 of 2023.
We kick off, however, with Brisbane-based Crafty Pint writer Mick Wüst for his take on the past 12 months: the trends he's witnessed, the beers he's enjoyed, and what he's been up to, which has included publishing a second book and completing a third (both on spirits, following his first on beer).
From there, we head to the Sunshine Coast where Craig Williams sits down at the home of Josh Donohoe, founder of Sunshine Coast Craft Beer Tours. A renewed focus on beer tourism is something we wrote about in the national trends article that launched this series and it's cropped up in other episodes, but few are as well versed as Josh. Not only has he been running tours in the region since the days when they had just a handful of breweries, but he's played a central role in the Craft Beer Capital tourism marketing campaign, even travelling with the region's brewers to sing the Sunshine Coast's praises in New Zealand.
Start of guest segments:
- 2:40 – Mick Wüst
- 14:16 – Josh Donohoe
- 26:33 – Phil Sharp & Daniel Venema
The Crafty Pint's 2024 Year In Beer series is proudly presented by Mogwai Labs, leaders in liquid yeast solutions. For the perfect pitch every time, visit mogwailabs.com.au.
Relevant links:
- The Crafty Pint’s Year In Beer 2024
- Sunshine Coast Craft Beer Tours
- Mick's Gin Drinker's Toolkit
- Hiker Brewing
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Year-End Beer News
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pony Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. We hope you had a great Christmas and Boxing Day and you know, ready for for a bit more beer news before the year's out. um So yeah, we're on to our penultimate year in beer 2024 rap and this time we're heading to the the Sunshine State to to
Queensland's Beer Scene Overview
00:00:24
Speaker
Queensland. Yes. So first up, you're going to hear the two of us chatting with Mick Wustau, long-term Queensland contributor. He's kind of going to give us a broad overview of the local scene and what stood out for him and what he's loved. yeah always had He's had a big year as well, publishing one book, writing another yes kind of stuff. So yeah, good to catch up with him before the year was out.
Sunshine Coast Craft Beer Industry
00:00:43
Speaker
Yes. And then um our ah podcast admin, Craig Williams, um he caught up with Josh Donahue from Sunshine Coast Craft Beer Tours. yep um Craig is based on the Sunshine Coast as well. So they sort of dive into local scene, obviously. Those who know Josh know that he's really embedded in the local industry and he's he's just done amazing work over the years sort of putting it on the mat.
00:01:04
Speaker
One of the first times I went to Sunshine Coast, um I guess when the beer scene there was starting to grow, he he was just launching his business and he took me on a sort of personalized tour. And I'm pretty sure we went to every brewery there was on the coast and there was four or five. You could not possibly do that. No, no, so and and he's been involved in the the tourism side of things there as well. So he's he'll have ah he's got plenty to offer on what's been going on
Growth and Success in Brewing Industry
00:01:28
Speaker
there. um And then lastly, we head back to Brisbane yes for a chat with Phil Sharp and Daniel Venema from Hiker Brewing. um They've only been going a few years, but they're definitely on the up, probably less than they plan to be and have had a pretty amazing 2024.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, so they did really well on the Gab Sottos 100 at the start of the year. They found a lot of love for their beers and they also took over the former, the home of Black Ops in Brisbane as well. So they've got two venues now. They're still a very small brewery and a small team and they're doing everything a lot themselves, but they're doing it well. So we thought it would be a really good chance to chat with them. Yeah, all brewing beers, fun, colourful venues, just, you know, yeah, real community vibes. So yeah.
00:02:08
Speaker
Cool, and then that'll just be one more for the year. Our territories wrap, which will run before New Year's Eve. um So I guess, Will, what do we have left to say for this intro? Don't forget to like and subscribe, and cheers! Cheers.
00:02:22
Speaker
The Crafty Pints Year in Beer series is presented by Mogwai Labs. If you've got a wild barrel fermentation program or have considered starting one, the best way to dial up the funk is to chat to Josh and the crew at Mogwai. They have one of the best libraries of forage yeast in the country. Hit them up at MogwaiLabs.com.au.
Mick's Personal and Professional Insights
00:02:42
Speaker
Mick, welcome to the podcast. Hey, how you doing, Will? Very in jail you get you on as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. thanks for Acknowledging my presence here on the on the camera. um Tell us about your 2024, Mick. I know it's it's not just been beer. It's been, I guess, family and non-beer in terms of writing. It's been a pretty big one for you. Yeah. ah And I bet I had a lot of insomnia this year too. So hazy is my and my year and that's got nothing to do with beer.
00:03:08
Speaker
um Yeah, look, it's pretty, pretty full one. So like, I've got a one year old or 100 bit year old now, who is amazing in leaps and bounds, obviously makes everything crazy. I've got a book that came out last year, a book that came out this year, and I'm writing another one. So that's been thinking of a lot of headspace. And then yeah, and all that trying to not just, you know, stay on top of beer stuff, but like, while everyone is kind of sinking and scrabbling and, you know, narrowing their focus, trying to Yeah, get out and see things and taste things and talk to people as I think everyone's experiencing. um Even that part of it's not always easy. But yeah, still a lot of good beer and a lot of good stuff happening. So, you know, we're all holding on. Yeah, and and I guess a bit of, a you know, I guess I was referring back to the the national ask we did about the the music musical chairs has been some movement within the industry as well. Is that something that you sort of has been sort of picked up or or talked about within within the Queensland scene?
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how much it's been talked about, but I've definitely seen it. Yeah, because I was trying to think how many you know new breweries are there or whatever, because every year, that seems to be the main thing that takes up our interview discussion, new breweries. um And this year, there's been so much it like shuffling, um whether that's breweries opening up extra tap rooms or um selling, but to other independents and things like that. um Obviously, the Black Ops thing went down this year, like the sale, which seems like a million years ago now, but that was the first half of this year.
00:04:29
Speaker
um Things like that have kind of, I think, shaped the landscape a bit and so there's a lot of, you know, everyone's always been saying for years there's going to be a resettling or there's going to be a recalibration or something to that end. And I think it's kind of happening. It's kind of been pushed by some of this weird stuff over the last couple of years.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah. yeah ah yeah so Certainly there's been some shuffling, I guess, but also some expansion as well. Not least, yeah I guess in your home part of Queensland, the Sun's Fire and Coast just seems to keep welcoming more venues, whether it's you know slipstream opening one or whether it's new breweries opening. like It's quite remarkable, really.
00:05:05
Speaker
It is. i um And as someone who lives in Brisbane, now I don't get to enough either of the coasts enough to kind of feel like I'm in the middle of it. But watching it, absolutely, it just keeps growing and growing. And some of the individual um individual breweries there expanding as well, like Tento's just opened their second place this year. Torella is still this sort of monster of ah of a venue.
00:05:25
Speaker
um Yeah, and like you mentioned Slipstream, obviously seeing them how many spin up there was pretty ah pretty fun because I love Slipstream and seeing them kind of go from strength to strength this year again. oh It's been exciting, so yeah.
00:05:39
Speaker
it's It's hard to know like whether Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast will almost just be a little bit behind Brisbane in how it looks or if it is going to just continue to be its own beast.
Breweries' Shift to Community Engagement
00:05:51
Speaker
In terms of sort of trends aside from i guess movement and growth in the industry, are Queenslanders drinking more of anything than they were in previous years? Are you seeing less of certain styles over the last 12 months?
00:06:05
Speaker
yeah I mean i think think we've said this a bit, and a few of the other guys might have said it as well, but lagers are not only um kind of coming back in a big way, people have been calling for it for years, brewers have been wishing for it for years, but I feel like it's actually finally happening. um A lot more lagers, but in the same way that, do you remember like when craft beer came onto the scene and IPAs got big, brewers were just pushing for as bitter as possible, like this bitterness arms race, bitter, bitter, bitter.
00:06:30
Speaker
They finally got to the roof now and they were like, okay, that's not the best place to be. Let's dial it back to a good place. um And then sourness, the same thing happens. so a Sour, sour, sour. Dial it back. Hazy, hazy, hazy, hazy. Dial it back. I feel like That's kind of where lagers at now as well. Some people have gone, right, should we do really hoppy lagers? We've made some, you know, at the far the extreme ends of hoppiness. Cool. And then we'll dial back the hoppiness for our hoppy lagers. How about like mid-strength plain as cheap as possible lagers? We had that over the last couple of years after COVID. um And then a lot of people said, okay, I don't think you will just want really cheap or only mid-strength lagers. So we'll come back into the 4%. We'll put a little bit more flavor back in.
00:07:07
Speaker
oh So I think lagers are actually settling into this really sweet spot that is not just a Queensland deal, but I'm definitely seeing it a lot around here. um And yeah, I think as well, in the middle of this year, I think the middle, Lost Palms did something really weird. They deleted like everything on the Instagram and they started again in this really, um oh yes, they were quite explicit about it, but this really strange sort of web-scale whisper whenever else is yelling um sort of approach to social media.
00:07:37
Speaker
And while not everyone else is doing it explicitly, I actually feel like there's been a bit of a focus for a lot of people away from pouring energy into social media. I don't know if you've noticed that as well.
00:07:47
Speaker
But maybe maybe it's more of a focusing on their tap rooms or focusing on their community. you know Social media is so much about spreading your reach as far as possible and getting to the other end of the country. And people have never heard of you. I think a lot of people are just going, you know whether it's strategy or whether it's because they've you know had to let go of their marketing person, they're just going, we just need to focus on our locals and our community more than anything. um And I think kind of that's included. We're just going to do less on social media. yeah So it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a different thing.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I suspect that sort of resourcing issue may be part of it as well, whether it is not having that dedicated person in the business or potentially not having the money to dedicate to it for a while. And it's going to be interesting to watch that with the Gabs Hollis 100, for example, this year. you know maybe seeing either less people making noise about it or doing it in ah in a different way, you know, in a less noisy, but also maybe less expensive, and less time consuming manner. Because I guess yeah while we're into summer now, things are, you know, ah picking up into the beer sales, I think coffers are still probably a little bit emptier than people would have wanted.
00:08:55
Speaker
And that's the other thing, a lot of these sort of marketing things that are sort of long game plays that don't get me wrong, in an ideal world, you know, everyone will be thinking long game as well as short term. But I think a lot of people just said, you know, how are we selling the beer that we've got at our bar over the next month? Or what's the next beer we're making for our hunters who already show up before we had to go and try and find new people?
00:09:15
Speaker
oh So it's been interesting and actually kind of nice, I think, at breweries and when you are a local or when you are in the community, I think there is this really nice focus on, oh, they're not just thinking of the next biggest beer they can do for gabs. They've got a really great, um, IPA, rotating IPA tap that is a bit different every time, but it's, it's always an IPA I know I love. All they've got, you know, yet is great moon.
00:09:35
Speaker
um you know larger series or sour series or something so i think people really are benefiting from it but it's very much from their local breweries as opposed to i've got the you know the 600 pokemon that i've got to catch from across the country yeah i think limited have a real much more intention at the moment like if people who are doing them they're doing them for a very specific reason or they have they know they have to have a real story behind them rather than just keep going every style every style and that kind of thing people are really narrowing in their focus Yeah, which again, I think it'll be interesting to see whether that's something that sticks around or whether that's just kind of survival mode for people. But as a phase, at at the very least as a phase, it's very interesting to see. And have any um breweries or beers not knocked you back? You know, really been like, well, okay, that's, you know, that's something that is someone's nailed.
00:10:26
Speaker
I feel really bad that I think it's the second year in a row that Balta's West Coast Pilsner has been my peer of the year. um Technically they call this one a news New Zealand Pilsner, but it was very much the style of a West Coast Pils and it was phenomenal. So that's certainly one that I've remembered.
00:10:44
Speaker
Um, I, I loved felons, um, barrel beers that, you know, the latest ones, James, you and I had, um, Chardonnay barrel and the Wee Heavy. Uh, you know, those guys, again, they've gone sort of, I think they've got a training champion trophies early this year. Um, and their, for their barrel program, um, and their barrels, their barrel stuff is just, yeah, amazing. So that's been. And Mick, looking ahead, like anything you hope to see or are excited for next year?
00:11:13
Speaker
I feel really unimaginably new saying this. I feel like it might be more of the same. I feel like there might be, unless something you know amazing happens and we all kind of come out of a bubble next year, I think there will be a lot more you know people going, right, how do we focus on our communities and our tap rooms and i our locals and make sure they've got a great experience every time we know their names, we know what beers they like, we know who events they like, and we act like we're not always just chasing the new customer.
00:11:42
Speaker
I think lagers have been done really well, and not just lagers, but pale ale has been done really well by something we've seen, both hazies and some more silver plastic ones. I think people are starting to nail them. Now that brewers aren't necessarily out chasing the next pastry set ingredient, they are actually you know sharpening up some of their pails and lagers in a way that's really fun.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah. And we've seen some yeah here here in sort of elsewhere, a sort of return to some more sort of classical beer styles, English ales, that kind of thing. Have you seen that kind of thing? I know, I got, you know, we've seen a little bit with sort of Belgian style as well. But I guess you've already got, you know, Maddock making great Belgian styles all year round. I guess Le Pudy Rocher came out this year with that kind of thing. You see much of that or is that sort of not happening so much in and your neck of the woods?
00:12:31
Speaker
I think still just in dribs and drabs, I think, unfortunately, it doesn't doesn't suit my palate. But unfortunately, I think Queensland's still just not into malt Malt has just always taken a back seat to not necessarily be cops, but whether it's lager, whether it's, you know, yeah, more easy drinking flavours or hobby stuff. So while you do get your very, your niche, cool niche, European stuff, your eumatic, your leopardy, rucher, things like that, and a few individual breweries will put out Um, one or a few of those sort of traditional UK or something in styles. Um, it's not a trend that I've seen sort of taking over here. It is much more likely to be right. How do we do the, the pails, the loggers, the sessions just really well. Right. Fantastic. Well, Mick, thank you so much for joining us. It's Willie. Good to see you guys.
00:13:31
Speaker
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00:13:54
Speaker
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00:14:18
Speaker
Josh, thank you for joining me on the Crafty Pint podcast, mate. great Great to have you here. Awesome to chat to, mate. Always awesome to chat to the Crafty Pint followers and talk about the sunny coast. Mate, and thank you for, I should say, you've invited us into your home. We've got the dog, we've got the Christmas tree up. We are Christmas ready here on the sunny coast. We are.
00:14:37
Speaker
Mate, now this is a bit of a recap of 2024, the year just gone. We thought it'd be great to speak to you. You are kind of at the bit of the of the coal face, particularly the Sunshine Coast beer industry. You run Sunshine Coast craft beer tours. You've been doing that for a few years.
00:14:54
Speaker
And I have to say you are very much an unofficial or somewhat official ambassador for the craft beer region here on the coast. So I don't know. give Give me your take. What's the just the broad brush stuff? How's the year been for for your business and for and for others on the coast?
Tourism's Impact on Beer Industry
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Thanks, Craig.
00:15:13
Speaker
Well, look, it's been a challenging year. I think, you know, we're coming to December now. So that's a busier month in in the scheme of things for Hospo and breweries. So there's probably a little bit of shine in this very second as we look to a busy month. But if we recap probably 18 months, I think you'd say that most breweries, most hospitality businesses and us included would have taken a fairly significant hit. um Speaking broadly from Tourism and Hospo, that's anywhere from 20 to 30%, maybe even a little bit more.
00:15:42
Speaker
um So they're pretty startling figures and I think as a business and and even from our business, you look at that and you get a little bit worried. and I know breweries would be in the same boat, but um you know we've talked about before from a tourism perspective, outside of COVID coming off the back of COVID, that 21, 22 into 23 kind of year, were what we call sort of COVID bump years on the sunny coast. And other areas in Australia I know would have experienced that, but not all. So- Can you describe that like that COVID bump? What do you yeah mean by that?
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah, so if we looked at, you know, dead stop, business shut, nothing we can do. Breweries are trying to get be out of kegs and into package stuff to sell it. um It was a pretty ordinary time. and We all know that. But as the world opened up or as we're allowed out of lockdown, the sunny coast became a little bit of a hotspot. And for a few reasons, Queensland was also state locked um and Queenslanders who loved a holiday were coming here. So that was great. We definitely saw a kickback from that. um Domestic travel in in in its whole over the last sort of two or three years has really boomed too because that pent up demand for travel is still there. And the sunny coast has done a very good job. um Visit Sunshine Coast in in promoting our region and getting people here. So if you looked at those couple of years, everyone on the sunny coast was having
00:17:02
Speaker
bump years, COVID bump years. So you can call them inflated years too, really, um but they're they're good. They were needed. Everyone's trying to recoup some of those losses. So they think that's that's those COVID bump years. Has that peed it off now? Like what's sort of happened since? Yeah. Yeah. So definitely that last 18 months and and last financial year, we would have come off that and look more like a pre COVID 2018, 2019 year. So a bit of a harsh reality, I think if you were running on the highs of those bump years, but now I think we've we've settled down. So that drop of 20, 30% is significant, but it's more like a 2019. Yeah, right. But at the same time, I guess you've now got the the added pressures of you know increased living costs and so on, which we all know the story of, but you've got all of these hospitality businesses that are, I guess, trying to extract the same kind of dollar per head spend out of customers, but maybe not quite getting there.
00:17:54
Speaker
Not going to happen. Yeah. the The customer spend is massively down in, as we would all know, in hospitality and and brewery spend. And in my perspective with our business, we're tours and attractions. So people still book flights in accommodation and They might go to dinner once or twice. Do they have the extra money in their wallet to take a tour, to to visit the attractions? At this stage, unfortunately not. So there'll be a little little bit more market correction and a little bit more challenging times ahead, I think for us.
00:18:20
Speaker
and tours and attractions. Hopefully breweries and hospitals can pull out of that a little bit quicker. yeah Amazing that, you know, in in all of that through the COVID bump stuff, the downturn, the the pressures of of what's going on at the moment. You mentioned visit Sunshine Coast, obviously there's been that campaign that's really come to life in, that's probably been over the last 12 to 18 months I'd say, around ah the Sunshine Coast being putting a flag in the ground and calling itself the the crappy capital of Australia. yeah ah You had a lot to do with that right Josh? is that we did yeah We had a new change of head of marketing who saw that as an opportunity pretty fresh out of COVID. I want to say it was 21 when that okay that idea was really launched.
00:19:00
Speaker
with a few hiccups with border closures but it has been great so collectively breweries are on board with this collective group who can promote coming to the Sunshine Coast for another reason. Great beaches, great climate, great food but we've got all these great breweries that offer something as well so look really successful campaign um and collectively something the brewers can get behind so yeah look proud to have been part of that and work with Visit Sunshine Coast to do that including our craft beer trail which I remember 2018 asking for someone to build one of those and it was a very prehistoric version online on the website but now it's going to be a live interactive map that's hosted on Visit Sunshine Coast, the Brewers hosts it, we've got printed maps so yeah look I think overall that's been a resounding success. Yeah, you and I were were lucky enough last year, I think you went this year as well to the Bivana Festival in New Zealand and bringing over a bunch of Sunshine Coast breweries to fly the flag and represent. I think again, that's a, I guess, a great example of the local kind of tourism marketing body really getting behind small business. Yeah, exactly. We had great support from Visit Sunshine Coast and also local council.
00:20:12
Speaker
and The opportunity was to go to Bivana, promote our, or the brewers to go to promote their beer, which we got amazing feedback from punters at Bivana. They loved our beer, but ah a chance to promote the region. This year we had a huge map behind our stand and the amount of conversations I had with people about, you know, this is where, you know, Moffat Beach is all the way down here and, you know, boiling pot and these guys are up in the north and showing people that,
00:20:34
Speaker
the region and getting them excited, the engagement was next level. And I think that kind of activation at ah at a beer festival in a market New Zealand, which is a huge market for Sunshine Coast was a really smart move. And I think we'll definitely see benefits from that.
00:20:49
Speaker
Well there you go, a little shout out to the tourism marketing people out there. Definitely follow follow the Sunny Coast lead, get her get behind craft beer. Mate, tell me about, obviously we the reason we've gone with that craft beer capital thing is I think there's now 23 or 24 craft breweries on the coast between Kalandra and Noosa. Another new one just opened up recently with young giants brewing out near the airport.
00:21:14
Speaker
i do you so We've seen a lot of doom and gloom across the country with with a number of larger, higher profile breweries going into administration. Are you seeing, are we getting, is there risk of that up here? like what what What are we looking like?
00:21:29
Speaker
I think there'd always be risk. I think small business is definitely doing it tough. and I'd like to see some consolidation over the the next six months and 12 months and hope breweries have really, you know, can survive what I think will still be a challenging year ahead. But we have been pretty lucky. We've seen a couple of new breweries open and not really seen any disappear. yeah um That might be a testament to that the pure numbers we're getting to our region through tourism. Great local support too. I mean, locals really have gravitated to their local brewery. And like I say, I think we're at 25. I've even heard that we might be at 26. So, you know, there's there's room there for venue-based brew pubs, in my opinion, that locals can get behind and call their own. um I just really hope, you know, there've they're in a strong enough position to survive that next 12 months, if it's a bit tricky. I was having a conversation with with James the other day and we were I think there is really a bit of a huge difference, a gulf of difference between the metro capitals and regional sort of areas and and so on. and i think you know
00:22:32
Speaker
ah I've found moving here from Melbourne myself there is that really strong local support and I think that brewery business model of just you know small production serving your local community your own taps and maybe a few others like that business model seems to still hold and work okay. yeah it's It's when you get to that next level of scale that you've really got to have your ducks in a row but yeah Well I think knowing your numbers, I mean the brewers I speak to, um who really know what their numbers are and what their market is and work towards that, obviously i have a better chance of of making that work. But I agree, I think getting into a bigger space is definitely challenging in current climates. but
00:23:11
Speaker
We've got a really diverse range on the sunny coast too from, you know, micro size, really small operations through to, you know, the bigger guys like your mates and heads of Noosa who are pushing into that bigger distribution, but they're playing in different ballgames. Yeah. They've got different challenges and hopefully they're all.
00:23:26
Speaker
all taking them on and succeeding. And you've seen just the evolution of your own business. So you you've sort of started with really craft beer tours. And I want to say like, what, five years ago, six years ago? No, we're actually in our ninth year, believe it or not. Totally misjudged that one. So nine years. Ten years, not sure.
00:23:44
Speaker
butourism Have you seen, is there still the same excitement ah amongst tourists around craft breweries or is it more shifting to the craft spirits rise or restaurants? food what Where are the trends in foodie tourism? It's a good it's a good question. i mean now so craft beer tours When I first moved here, I started Creative Tours, which was just a generic tour company for food and drink, and we had one brewery. And then as the breweries grew, we started Craft Beer Tours specifically to have that branding space, which was really great timing and very fortunate.
00:24:18
Speaker
um But I think what we've seen shift is that real shine that you know craft beer is something new and something shiny is probably rubbed off a little. But people are still really interested in having a local experience. And I think breweries will always be part of that. do Is the target market wanting to see four breweries with lunch maybe as strong as it was?
00:24:38
Speaker
pre-COVID or a few years ago, maybe not, but for us doing a lot of custom tours, a brewery is always part of it. Whether it's a lunch stop, first stop, one or two, they offer really unique spaces and and experiences and stories too. So I think the the The demand is still there, yeah but it's spread over and and included in being part of a local experience when they visit a real, you know, authentic genuine, you know, to use the buzzwords, local experience, but we're just still playing a big part of that. Yeah, great. And um to wrap us up here, I guess, looking forward to crystal balling it. what What's kind of got you excited about the year ahead or what are you looking forward to? What would you like to see happen down the track?
00:25:21
Speaker
Well, it's a tough one because I know we're into some headwinds still, but I mean, I'd love to see all of our breweries here. I mean, I'm being very localised saying it, but survive through those times and and really start to thrive and benefit from that returning market. We're still looking for international visitors to come back. So if we can get them to come back in larger numbers and and they can get out there and and visit those breweries, I think that will help. But I think ongoing support, we the industry needs it across the country, but locally, we're going to have to really partner up to the likes of, you know, Business Sunshine Coast from a tourism perspective, local government, and and get support from as many stakeholders as we can, get local businesses on board every time events are run locally, whether they're large corporate events or small events, really make sure that they are championing local beer. And that shift is still happening, which I love seeing more and more. I think to to really help strengthen the industry, we're going to want to see more and more of that and encourage that wherever we can.
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. Well, mate, thank you so much, Josh. Really appreciate your time. I look forward to coming back for Christmas drinks and we will ah call it a wrap on that. Back to you at the podcast. Cheers, guys.
00:26:36
Speaker
Dylan Daniel, thanks for joining us. No worries. Pleasure. How's things in ah sunny, or was it is it sunny Brisbane or did I see there's been a rain coming through at the minute? It's a bit dreary at the moment, so and sounds's good it's good. The weekend was quite hot. I think it got up to about 36 degrees, so it's it's a mild 24
Hiker Brewing: Journey and Innovations
00:26:54
Speaker
at the moment, so which which is good. How's how's humid like Brisbane summer 36 degrees brewing in your shed?
00:27:02
Speaker
Oh, that's great. Yeah. Love it. Daniel sweats at the best of times. yeah I'm actually not too sweaty right now, which is weird. We timed it well. I can't really complain. We have pretty open shed with lots of roller doors, but no, I do end up drenched in sweat. Go through a few shirts a day. It's good. And just before we get into, I guess, I'm looking back over 2024 for you guys and for the Queensland scene, generally sort of positive history of, I guess, both your two careers in beer and and how you came together to form Hiker.
00:27:31
Speaker
Yeah, so um yeah well Phil used to work at The Echo, the Brisbane Show Society, RNA, and he was the head of competition. So I met Phil in 2019 when Hendo sort of got me in as an associate judge. And we've been annual acquaintances at the beer awards ever was since. Well, more than that now, I suppose.
00:27:55
Speaker
and Yeah, so ah guess I I went pretty quickly from home brewing into a job thanks to Hendo's help. um So yeah, he got me in at catchment when I started in 2018 and trained me up on the job there and worked at a few breweries since, but at the end of, well, mid 2021, I guess I was starting to think about maybe doing a small group up by myself and Phil had similar thoughts and Hendo put us in touch, thought we should chat.
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, how about you? Yeah, and the rest is history. So yeah, so but pretty much for me, I was yeah, as Daniel mentioned, I was head of competition. So I started the Royal Queensland Bureau Awards back in 2019. And then unfortunately, COVID hit. um So it gave me an opportunity, ah being on JobKeeper, had three days a week off. So went and did the TAFE course um that that just started. So I was the first I was on the OG TAFE course, I learned how to brew i there. And then basically, yeah, got made redundant in the JobKeeper. So obviously pivoted from running events to brewing. So then worked it all in for a little bit.
00:29:16
Speaker
and then moved to Black Ops and during that time sort of had the grand plan of opening main brewery but obviously didn't have enough funds by myself and then yeah, Hendo sort of mentioned wish we should have a chat so and yeah and then we decided I had very similar philosophy in regards to not too big you know brew pub model and then so yeah so we put our heads together and took the leap of faith.
00:29:43
Speaker
e And several years in, looking from afar, it definitely looks like you've hit the ground running. And that was one of the reasons we wanted to have you on because like you've already expanded into um ah the Brisbane venue. So how's it sort of felt looking back?
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's been a wild ride. So it's three years since we took over the lease on the shed, took us like 15 months through government red tape and buildings to get the Salisbury site up and running. So, and you know, it was probably also a bit of a perfect storm with um when we opened ballistic down the road when the VA, so it was because they're sort of like maybe 600 meters away from us and we sort of pilfered a lot of their regulars, um not only because we were new, but also you know we worked really hard in regards to our business model. and yeah Daniel and I were always working behind the bar, so people could actually talk to the brewers, and we built that real rapport within the community. so and we still We don't work as much behind the bar as we used to, as so we're sort of getting a bit bigger. but
00:30:49
Speaker
You know, people still sort of love to come in and have a chat. And then, yeah, this year we had the opportunity with East Brisbane. So with. black hops going into VA and then liquidation. So we were able to snaffle that side up basically for rent. So the whole fit out was done. So it was really just a liquid paint and new mural. So it was definitely in our long-term plans to open the second venue, but it definitely came quicker than we anticipated. It was just too good an opportunity to pass up.
00:31:23
Speaker
So, yeah, it seems very fast. so It wasn't our plan to do it that quickly, but, um, yeah, I couldn't really say no. It's funny, like it seems, sort of seems normal. Some, most of the time, day to day, just working in the brewery and then occasionally someone will say something and you just go, Oh, wow. Yeah. And yeah, pretty crazy. Yeah. And that's the matter, man. and we'rere We're constantly doing things. So we're in the final throws, our beer garden that we wanted to have from day one at Salisbury, we've just,
00:31:52
Speaker
put up the scrim and the the festoon lightings on the table. So we're just waiting for liquor licensing to give us the tick and then we'll we'll open that up. So that's something we wanted to do from day one, but basically ran out of money. So um so yeah, we've been able to to pull that off now soon.
00:32:08
Speaker
ah You talked about sort of your your ethos before and how you reckon that sort of the strong folks on that help you sort of build a bit of a following. um what What is what is the ethos of Hyker then what is it you think that's, you know, drawn people to the brand and the and the business and the beers? Well, I think I think there's two elements. The first first ethos we have is like we try like from a cost perspective, we where we try and do everything ourselves. So we're very much a The business model was around vertical integration. So we've got our own canning machine. We do everything ourselves. So we work the bar. It was always like just lean and mean. So I sort of keep a pretty tight control on the finances. Daniel says I'm the tightest person in the world. so
00:32:54
Speaker
yeah So i say that that's what's kept us afloat. I think just being smart in regards to how we do things. And even our whole brewery design was actually, we spent a lot of time actually picking the best bits out of the various breweries that we both work with. So, you know, like even our our floors, yeah they go straight to drain, we rarely have to squeegee, all those type of things that is the bane for brewers. But yeah, and I think for us, it's all about, and the the other side with it with the consumers, it's very much, I think
00:33:27
Speaker
We want to be attractive to, you know, rather than just craft beer people. So like we use light and bright colors. um We sort of try and avoid black, but East Brisbane is a bit different because that was fully black. So, um but yeah, and budget for item and that sort of why trying to be a lifestyle brand. So, you know, we have trail runs, we do hikes, we do all those sorts of things to try and engage, you know, different elements of the community to so come, ah come and check us out.
00:33:57
Speaker
yeah obviously beer quality is paramount but um yeah you can have great beer and not go very well if if other things aren't in place so like beer quality number one but we really want to focus on the venues and making them inviting for all sorts of different demographics catering for kids, catering for non-beer drinkers so like yeah beer gardens an example like our capital expenses are sort of aimed at the venue and making it a ah great spot for community. Yeah. Yeah. So like one of our key tenants is making more beer doesn't make you more money, is how you sell it. So we rarely do wholesale. We do a few kegs to the local bowls clubs and things like that. And you know, if you've got a little bit of excess stock, we'll, we'll send cans off to independent bottle bottle shops. But yeah, it's not about trying to have hiker beer in, in every, you know, bottle shop in the country. It's like, our egos aren't that big. Much too costly.
00:34:57
Speaker
thin margins, competitive, you know, all that. Are you seeing that more sort of widely across the industry as well? Because certainly it's a bit of a theme that's been cropping up in a few of these conversations we've been having for this end of the year series. And I guess, you know, conversations we've had throughout the year, do you think that's becoming, you know, even people that have maybe explored that, that sort of approach of maybe going, you know what, either now is not the time or maybe never the time, you know? Yeah, well, I think, yeah, we're seeing a bunch of ah breweries that did have national distribution pulling back, obviously. um And whether they're still distributing in their state or not, um a lot of them are opening new venues as well. um plenty Plenty of second venue, third venue stuff going on. So I think everyone's realizing that, um yeah, it's just a really hard market with a lot of a lot of costs involved in breaking into it. and But that sort of valley of death between
00:35:53
Speaker
you know, brewing one or 200,000 litres and brewing enough to do proper distro is just getting wider, I think, um as as more and more businesses start to struggle. I think most people who are looking to open a brewery now are pretty well aware of that. um we We're here to tell of people who start up breweries with the goal of getting into all the Dan Murphy's and things, but Generally, they seem to pretty quickly realize that's very tough to do from the get-go now. yeah And in terms of you know looking back over the year, have there been any real standout moments or beers either yeah know from a hiker perspective or from around the Queensland scene? Has anyone out there that you think has really been nailing it this year and you've you know i've been picking up a few of their beers along the way?
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah, well, for us, I suppose the highlights, we' we've had a few few few early on in the in the in the year, 52 for Cloudscapes and the Gabs Hotice 100 for a beer that we only brewed 4,000 litres of. So that was pretty incredible to actually get that local support. I still claim we came number one, votes per beer. We we we we slayed mountain culture. so Anyway, so that's the the analytical head of head
Innovative Brewing Approaches
00:37:07
Speaker
of mine. We won a vote book. But also like we you know from from our peers at the Royal Queensland Beer Awards, um yeah we picked up Champion Brew Pub and Champion New Brewery. so that was like
00:37:22
Speaker
You know, that was really rewarding. um You know, it was sort of like a full circle moment personally for me in regards to having started those awards and then then to actually go up on stage and actually, you know, pick up those awards we with Daniel. So that was definitely the ah highlights for me. Yeah.
00:37:40
Speaker
whatever the audience going to fix is in fill fill fill things behind the scenes yeah no um i ah yeah no longer involved so i was just a bystander so but yeah so but it was yes i was very gratifying and i think you know there's a yeah the britain beer saying it's going well I think the standout for me is definitely working title. Like I just I've always loved Mark and known he was a great brewer but to see what he's doing at working title now that he's got his his own creative control and the different technologies he's exploring while still making really modern
00:38:23
Speaker
you know, cutting edge sort of beers. Um, and yeah, I don't, I don't buy that much beer. Um, I mostly drink my own because there's low fills and I don't have to pay for it. Um, but, uh, often the social posts or newsletters I do get that make me go, yeah, I need to, I need to grab some of that, um, uh, Mark and Luke's. So yeah, I think they're doing great stuff. Yeah.
00:38:48
Speaker
They're definitely one of the most creative breweries anywhere in the country. I think I'm always blown away by what I'm seeing come out of them. Yeah, absolutely. And they somehow nail it every time. Like they they do some weird stuff that you think, oh, that's, that's going to be interesting. And then you taste it like, wow. Yeah. There always seems to be a story, you know, whether it is exploring a new technique or a new ingredient or just some wild flight of fantasy that him and Luke have concocted and gone, we can do
Economic Challenges and Community Role
00:39:16
Speaker
this. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:19
Speaker
And looking ahead, I mean, what's what's next for High Car? You won the event of this year, so two next year? So no, for us, it's really a shipping container kitchen is basically will be up and running at East Brisbane early next year. So we're very excited for for that. I think that's that was a missing piece um at that venue with ah the, you know, with Black Ops and before that semi-pro. So So getting through the red tape on that. Also, ah like at East Brisbane, we're we're rolling out our um wild fermented beers. So there we got beers in barrels there at the moment. So we really want to, um yeah, that's a bit of a passion project with with help from um with from Jake Harrison, who used to run ballistic bunker. So he's going to take the lead on that little project.
00:40:13
Speaker
um So that that'll be exciting and just working on the sub brand for that at the moment. um so that yeah So I think that that'll give a new dimension to that space as well and also just sort of round out the full offering from Hyker. Yeah, really excited about that because I think like ja Jake's been thinking about doing his own little side thing for a while and it works out well because this is a fairly low risk way for him to do that.
00:40:39
Speaker
Um, and obviously it's great for us to have some of his mixed culture beers offered in our tap rooms. Um, and yeah, it puts, it's a hyper sub brand, but, um, you know, practically we're giving Jake a full.
00:40:52
Speaker
ownership and creative control within reason. ah But yeah, no, really excited to to see these beers come out and to start serving them. Yeah. And on on on a wider sort of, you know, looking at beer, whether for the Queensland Sea or Australian Sea, anything you'd love to see in 2025, I guess, other than people spending more money.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yes. That'd be nice, yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. I think, ah well, yeah, yesterday another interest rate hold, so that was good. So it'll be good for it to drop a little bit, to give a bit more consumers a bit more confidence because yeah we've definitely noticed throughout the year, a lot of the regulars who used to come in for and three or four beers are now having two or three and very yeah very um price sensitive. So whenever there's a special on or something like that, i'll they'll grab that. so We're just balancing that. But yeah, obviously, hopefully, yeah, the economy picks up and get to get a couple of interest rate reductions and um sort of get get craft beer back on the rise. Yeah, I think it's been exciting to see so many new breweries still popping up in the last few years and and nailing their beers out of the gate. I think if people like Bracket,
00:42:06
Speaker
um ah And yeah, ah even Fox Friday, they've been around a bit longer, but um really starting to hit their stride and things like that. um And I think it's not really a 2025 thing specifically, but um You know, it sucks that a lot of the bigger breweries with distro are finding it really hard, but at the same time, I think that's a market shift that needed to happen. um And I'm looking forward to seeing more of the small breweries and brew pubs sort of evolve into the the new pub, like pubs before the pokies and and the TAB sort of thing, the new family hangout, friend hangout, community space. That's going to happen more and more, I think.
00:42:48
Speaker
and Uh, yeah, it's great to see people taking real care and and making great bees. Well, can we, can we take that name for a series or for a campaign for next year, pubs before the pokies? Yeah, sure. Yeah. No, that would work. and Good protest slogan. Yeah. Daniel and Phil, uh, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks guys. Thanks.
00:43:13
Speaker
The Crafty Pints Year in Beer series is proudly presented by Mogwai Labs, leaders in liquid yeast solutions. For the perfect pitch every time, visit MogwaiLabs.com.au. That's M-O-G-W-A-I-L-A-B-S.com.au.
00:43:34
Speaker
The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website craftypint.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
00:43:48
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.