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Innovative Off-Grid Brewing On The Limestone Coast
389 Plays13 days ago
We return to normal programming – temporarily at least ahead of our GABS Hottest 100 Countdown livestream – for Episode 028 of The Crafty Pint Podcast, featuring one of the interviews we recorded on the road in South Australia in late 2024.
That said, it's arguably a little harsh to refer to Loophole Brewing as normal. Sure, it's a brewery that makes beer, but there's more to distinguish Loophole from your run-of-the-mill breweries than most. The entire operation is off grid. It's based on the grounds of a winery (but is no token beer brand designed to offer a modicum of choice at the cellar door). They grow barley they've used in their beers. They've won trophies for beer-wine hybrids and beer featuring local saltwater, and fermented the winery's grapes with nothing but Brettanomyces.
In short, there was plenty to talk about when we pulled up at Cape Jaffa Wines – the first to plant vines on this stretch of the Limestone Coast – half an hour north of Robe.
We were there to catch up with Tom O'Reilly, head brewer and also the man who designed and built the brewery for the Hooper family, the pioneers who saw the potential for producing wine in the region back in the 1990s.
As well as discussing the brewery and winery's innovative and sustainable approach and regular cross-pollination of ideas and ingredients, we chat about Sunlight Liquor – Tom's mead brand, making a positive impact on the wider beer industry, the importance of educating drinkers, and how a mishap on his first night shift at Stone & Wood led to the creation of a Molly Rose favourite.
Prior to the chat with Tom, we look at some of the positive news stories of the past week, including the imminent arrival of a Bridge Road bar at Melbourne Airport – hot on the heels of a Stone & Wood bar opening at Sydney Airport, the acquisition of Port Mac brewery Moorebeer by its long-term head brewer, and the arrival of Subculture Brewing in Brunswick.
We've enjoyed a great start to our campaign shining a light on good beer citizens, "Have you done a Rallings?", while applications are now open for this year's Young Henrys IWD Brewing Scholarship supporting women and non-binary individuals aiming to get into the industry too. This week's episode also features a new segment featuring Steve "Hendo" Henderson of Rockstar Brewer with tips on brewing better beer.
Start of segments:
- 12:43 – Tom O’Reilly (part one)
- 29:43 – Rockstar Brewer
- 35:28 – Tom O’Reilly (part two)
Relevant links:
- Loophole Brewing
- Cape Jaffa Wines
- Bridge Road Brewers Land At Melbourne Airport
- Brewer Buys Brewery
- Who Brews Subculture Beers?
- Young Henrys IWD Scholarship
- Have You Done A Rallings?
- GABS H100 Countdown Livestream
- Rockstar Brewing Academy
- The High Country Hop
- IBD 2025
To find out more about supporting the show or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Studio Move
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and we're back in the warm embrace of the the Crafty Pint Podcast Studio, temporarily at least before we head off to another studio for our live stream of the Gabs Hotters 100 Countdown, which we'll talk about a bit later in the later in the intro. um But yeah, good to be back together after a few few weeks apart. Yes, absolutely. And there's been some very good news as well from last week.
00:00:31
Speaker
Indeed do you want to um tell us about a couple of the chats you had over the last few days Yeah, so first up with ah Ben from Bridge Road who have they've opened a taproom at Melbourne Airport Yeah, so Melbourne Airport's looking not too bad these days. Have they actually opened it? They will or are they about to open it?
Bridge Road Taproom at Melbourne Airport
00:00:48
Speaker
Apologies, they will on February 4th. They are opening one. yeah Yeah, but we're very close to that date. Yeah, and Yeah I mean Melbourne Airport it's looking all right these days as terminals are missing out particularly I was in the international one recently and it wasn't looking too good but Bridge Road are in the same terminal as the local tap house so they have biz from across Melbourne then in terminal three you have Stomping Ground um brew pub that's been there for quite a few years now opened just before airports all closed in 2020 and yeah Bridge Road now have their own tap room four taps
00:01:19
Speaker
um sort of doing spins on stuff that they've become known for in their impressive 20-year history. Yeah. Like pizzas Pizza by the Slice, Maria's famed Pretzels from Austria and all that kind of thing. So yeah, it's great. No, it's pretty good. I think it's it's great news, obviously, for travellers through the airport. Great news for Bridge Road as well. Really good opportunity for, I guess, travellers to come into contact with independent Victorian beer as soon as they arrive in Victoria or leave in Victoria.
00:01:48
Speaker
um And I guess it kicks off as going to be a big few weeks for Bridge Road
High Country Hop Festival Symposium
00:01:52
Speaker
as well. um Obviously we've talked about the High Country Hop Festival. They have now put tickets on sale for their symposium, which takes place on the Friday beforehand. We'll be up there hosting that once again. um And yeah, they're still looking in some of the programme, but as previous years have shown, it's always a high quality high quality event. Yes, you're listed as speaker number two after Kylie left Bridge from the IBA. So that's that's pretty exciting.
00:02:14
Speaker
Well, I'm hoping my speaking involves just sort of welcoming other people onto the stage. But if they want if they want to hear us, you know, hear me talk about my thoughts and pontificating on the industry, then, you know, I guess I've got plenty to say. and So that's March 21. March 21st and then the festival on March 22nd. So we'll all be up there yeah in Beechworth for a few days around that. Always a great event. So looking forward to that.
00:02:36
Speaker
um And then I guess there's another good news that got a really good response when we ran something last week.
Big Moz at More Beer Brewery
00:02:41
Speaker
I guess it technically happened just before Christmas, but yes you spoke to the new owner of More Beer in Port Macquarie. Yes, Big Moz, also known as Mark Connors. I met Mark at More Beer in 2019 when I went up there and he just just sort of started brewing, he'd finished studying and he'd been working with the owners. and uh what how many years are we now five to six or whatever and um he's taken over the brewery so Ryan Moore who was one of the founders he left quite a few years ago to go back into teaching um and then Brad Hodge and his family were the main other owners and they were looking to get out and yeah it's just an awesome thing to story to be able to sell really the brewer buys the brewery he loves and has worked for for a really long time
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I think he's been very well received. I think Big Moz is clearly a popular guy, given different given by the reaction online to present people in the industry and outside the industry, you know, liking and commenting the post from all over the country. So clearly, he's is a popular decision. and And I think from what he's been saying, he's going to take a similar approach to, for example, Michael um and Mary at Tumut River and just sort of focus locally, building, you know, reap continue to build locally within the community eu and the Port Macquarie region. So yeah, and it's a big, lot of big populations.
Subculture Brewing's Neighborhood Focus
00:03:57
Speaker
It's this regional city, Port Macquarie. There's only two breweries there. So um there are a lot of people. And that was one of the exciting things talking to Mark when he said,
00:04:06
Speaker
You kind of think your people know about you because you've been here for a while, but there's still people coming in for the first time and hopefully they keep coming back and that sort of thing. Yeah, for sure. um And aside from that, I guess, I guess, close to home for for you in particular. And we did Hooboos yesterday on yet another brewery in Brunswick.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yes, yes. So Subculture Brewing, they opened as a taproom in late last year, August, September, and they've only just started firing up the brewery. So a couple of their beers are on tap now, which is great. um Very small, very tight taproom. You can tell it used to be a sort of smaller restaurant, and it's great to see them open and doing their thing. Again, talking about small, like their focus is really on being a neighborhood bar that happens to brew its own beer.
00:04:53
Speaker
subculture the name I'll always done this the two meanings that he explained to you. Yeah so splitting a yeast subculture making a subculture and then also he's obviously a pretty big music fan particularly sort of punk and reggae and that kind of thing so so exploring that kind of thing um in musical subcultures.
Young Henry's Scholarship for Diversity
00:05:12
Speaker
And there seem to be a lot of sort of pop culture stuff sort of dotted around the venue as well so. It's a bit of a Gen X wonderland you'll have to go James. He reminded me a little bit thank you very much Will. um but I think I'm at the younger end of Gen X, though, aren't I? Just about. um You remind me a bit of Spooning Goats, which became mixtape in Sydney, that sort of vibe, you know, celebrating, you know, locally focused, regularly changing the beers and that sort of yeah that sort of pop culture, subculture references.
00:05:38
Speaker
um Yeah, and I guess some other stuff that we put out on the website of the last sort of week or so, Young Henry's scholarship is back again, and supporting women, non-binary people wanting to get into the beer industry. So that's open, we'll include a link for that in the show notes if anyone wants to get on to the next New South Wales TAFE brewing course. um And someone, we sort of talk about re relatively you know um relatively often
Reckless Brewing's Presidential Medal
00:06:04
Speaker
reckless brewing. yes Another success for them.
00:06:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah, so they they're one of eight finalists in the Royal Agricultural Society of New South Wales. but They got a presidential medal, which seems odd. kind of I guess there's a president running the Royal Agricultural Society. All seems a bit odd to me, surely. it's ah Anyway.
00:06:22
Speaker
We won't get into republicanism right now, but um so it recognises food and beverage companies and agricultural connected businesses. They're doing really well, doing great stuff, particularly in the area of sustainability and good social impact and that kind of thing, which obviously reckless is it.
00:06:38
Speaker
big Yeah app and and so they're the one sort of beer business from
Crafty Pint's Good Deeds Campaign
00:06:43
Speaker
the awards earlier in the year that's now competing against a bunch of other winners from trophy winners from other I guess areas that the agriculture society celebrates so yeah nice word to them um and also I guess look out for when we have our Hottest 100 livestream at the weekend for Grace from Reckless' brief appearance, which is quite spectacular. I asked her to put get together a short video and she really ran with it, or drove with it. Drove with it really fast. um Yeah, and I guess sort of looking back to last week, we launched the, have you done a Rallings, I guess campaign promotion? Yep. Looking to celebrate people doing good deeds, doing good stuff in the beer industry. and We've had a really great response so far. um
00:07:27
Speaker
Admittedly, the first nomination came from the United States. ah But unfortunately, we won't we won't be ah we won't won't be awarding any prizes to people in Portland, Oregon. But nice to know that we have a reach out there and people like people are keen to get behind celebrating the beer industry everywhere in the world. But um yeah, I think we've had sort of, you know, and Craig was saying sort of regional bottle, bottle.
00:07:48
Speaker
Craig was saying that there's been a regional bottle shop manager organizing a shuttle bus for customers to go to gabs. Graphic designer is sending hop samples to the brewery he worked with in Cairns from his home in New Zealand. So all manner of nominations. If people want to.
00:08:01
Speaker
get involved in that and nominate someone they think so goes above and beyond doing really cool stuff. In the beer industry, craftypint.com slash railings will include a link in the show notes. Make sure you access actually fill in the form because there's a few people sharing it and a lot of comments, people will going, oh, this person's doing awesome stuff. We're not going to see it that way necessarily. like Make sure you fill in the form if you
Gabs Livestream Countdown
00:08:20
Speaker
want to nominate people. And the form is very short. It's like five fields you need to enter. So, you know, craftypint.com slash railings. And once we've got a few of them in, we'll start talking about some this specifically on the on the on the show. but Also, maybe run some stories on some of the most standout stories on the website as well. Yeah. um Which, yeah, just leave just to I guess this weekend's big event for us. Fun big event for the beer industry, I guess.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yes, so the Gabs livestream, we're kicking off from 2.45, so we'll be... 2.45 Australian Eastern Daylight Time. Yes, sorry, Melbourne Time, Melbourne and Sydney Time, and Tassie Time. Yeah, it's a good thing about doing this at this time of year, there's about, you know, five different time zones for us to sort of, you know, bear in mind. But anyway, if you know where you live, you know what the time will be, hopefully.
00:09:04
Speaker
So yeah, that's the point here end of the gab sort of countdown. um So we'll talk about the results have been, we've got some great interviews that we've already recorded with people, we'll be cutting to we'll have live streams with people um as they sort of come up on the day. And yeah, we're just really looking forward to it. It should be a lot of fun. We're working with a really great studio and stupid old studios in Melbourne. So yeah, it's it's just really exciting.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, you've committed to wearing a hat. You know, I actually realized I probably can't wear the headphones and the hat. So I'm hoping some producer might um step in and say I'm not allowed to wear a hat. Well, I was thinking of getting some sort of novelty hat as well to sort of, you know, in in sympathy with you. But um I've realized that suit that I wore for the is a really heavy suit. So it's going to be like 35 degrees again, hopefully the air conditioning industry. They have good air coming in there. Don't worry about that. Yeah, so join us from 245. We'll be carrying down from the top 30, but also reflecting not only on the whole 100 itself, but the history of the history of the poll discussing some of the issues that I guess it's raised over the years and some sort of the current issues in the industry right now. And just celebrating beer as well. We've kind of had some people make videos that are really fun and things like that, just to talk about what they love about beer and their favorite beers and things like that. So it's um we hope it'll be a
00:10:16
Speaker
kind of all-encompassing celebration of beer, rather than just ah just about the countdown itself. 100%. Yeah, so we'll hopefully see a whole bunch of you. It's going out on YouTube, so head to the CraftyPoint YouTube channel, which is the CraftyPoint podcast um on YouTube. Subscribe there. We'll have the live chat going as well, so encouraging people to make comments.
Loophole Brewing's Off-Grid Operations
00:10:36
Speaker
ask questions and over the course of the day um which I guess just leaves us to introduce our main guest today you know this is one of the interviews that we recorded on the road where we were an essay towards the end of last year um with Tom the head brewer well I guess the head the guy that helped set up the brewery at um Cape Jaffa wine so the brewery's loophole brewing yeah 100% off grid. They've been growing some of their own barley. so The limestone coast first ever winery is Cape Jaffa wine. So this there's some projects that are entire business collaborations with yeah with the people working in the vineyard and the winemakers, barrel aging, blending, working with grapes and other fruit. um He's a really fascinating guy. like he's a yeah he's a He's sort of a deep thinker, but he's a's yeah he's a funny chap as well. And it's a really, yeah really enjoyable conversation.
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, and the wines aren't too shabby either. If you get a chance to try some Cap Jaffa wines, they're awesome as well. Don't forget to like and subscribe. And we're back with Tom after the break in beautiful um limestone coast. Cheers.
00:11:42
Speaker
Beer music and food lovers, rejoice because tickets are on sale for the 10th annual High Country Hop Festival in Beechworth. Taste fresh hop harvest beers from Australia's best indie brewers, bridge road brewers, mountain culture, range, wildflower, love shack and kaiju. Plus the high country's famed local breweries, winemakers, craft distillers and more.
00:12:05
Speaker
see Japanese good-time rockers the 5-6-7-8s in their only not-yet-sold-out Victorian show, alongside ARIA winner Kaiet and folk legend Darren Hanlon. With an inspired food line-up headlined by some of Australia's most inventive chefs and iconic Box Wars workshops for kids, it's a family-friendly day out.
00:12:25
Speaker
An unmissable beer, food and music festival for all. Saturday, March 22nd in High Country Beechworth. Tickets on sale now at thehighcountryhop.com.au. Hosted by Bridge Road Brewies.
00:12:43
Speaker
Tom, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, guys. Welcome. chair and Thank you for having us to this beautiful part of the world. Do you want to start us by telling us exactly where we are? Yeah, so we are down in the southeast corner of South Australia. It's called the Limestone Coast. um And in particular, we are not far away from Cape Jaffa, which is about seven kilometres behind us. So we're right by the sea. And we are Not far from Lupole Brewery, just a few hundred meters between us and the brewery with Cape Jaffa Wine's vineyard over there. So yeah, we're in ah um in a rural setting and um we've got lots of flies. trees a do yeah some Someone's coming. in
00:13:31
Speaker
um And I guess while we're here, so we're here to talk about loophole brewing, but also maybe to tell us a bit about Cape Jaffa wines first. um because i I guess that was the first operation here, and actually the first winery in the area. so Yeah, totally and it sets the same well because the owners of Lupo, the Hooper family who started Cape Jaffa Wines a few decades ago, planting vines here on what was a farm, a sheep grazing farm.
00:14:02
Speaker
um because they were sort of pioneers in the area, seeing that there was um really good soil, that torossa soil over limestone here, and really good quality aquifer of water. um And so yeah, that's why we're here in Cape Jaffawine's backyard.
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah. And that was what, 30 odd years ago? Yeah. I think it was early nineties when Derek and his father, Kim started planting vines here. And um it was late nineties when they started their first harvest, started their first vintages here.
00:14:35
Speaker
mini minieral intervention yeah Yeah, exactly.
Loophole Brewing's Brewing Philosophy
00:14:38
Speaker
It's a great place to work and I think it's ultimately why um a lot of us, my colleagues and I are drawn to the area is, um you know, the philosophy of bi-dynamic viticulture as well as um winemaking. um It definitely sort of flows into the the winery as well and I think as well, ah no doubt.
00:15:06
Speaker
was as well um why um we started Lupo here and was you know wanting to be innovative and creative and um and see what what this site would would translate to with the beer. And how did you end up doing it and I guess starting Lupo, because I guess you arriving here was the last piece in the jigsaw as to why Luke probably even started. yeah Yeah, no, totally. So I was definitely a case of being in the right place at the right time. I'd been um been brewing for a few years um at Stone and Wood in Byron Bay in my Woollen Bar.
00:15:43
Speaker
and I came down here um to do a vintage at the winery. I was certainly inspired by the biodynamic vineyard and thought it'd be, you know, interesting um to see. How many is your life compared to the 24 hour shifts you had? Oh hell, the 24 hour system you've been working at Byron Bay. Yeah, exactly. Trying to escape or at least see what um what the wine industry was like, because a winemaker and a brewer have the same general goal of making tasty booze. um And I was thinking that maybe um um it could be, yeah, interesting to see what a vintage is all about, um but ah that ended up turning into more beer and more brewing anyways. And was there anything in particular that drew you here? Like you could have done vintage, you know, anywhere in the country, other parts of the world, what what was it about?
00:16:40
Speaker
this area Well, I hadn't been to South Australia before and I think it was um learning that these guys, you know, followed by dynamic principles in the vineyard. I thought, well, that's probably going to, um you know, in a way,
00:16:58
Speaker
It kind of be like making, you know, growing grapes and making wine from from the past a little bit, um knowing that we're brewing and certainly the ethos at Stone and Wood was, um you know, less is more. And it's incredibly, you know, such a beautifully simple recipe Pacific ale and no surprise that it's like,
00:17:22
Speaker
a BSL that's going on to influence so much. So I think there's definitely a bit of that thinking, being like, oh, binodynamics could be something interesting to observe, could be an interesting working holiday, um but actually it does go back to what I studied at uni a bit, um in particular with studying microbiology and um and sort of the ecology of agriculture. That was probably another drawing point to wanting to come down here.
00:17:50
Speaker
yeah And so you're working on vintage and all of a sudden what, vintage ends and it's like, well, can't make boozers anymore. Like let's start brewing or have that sort of work out. It was, it didn't take long for once, um, once everybody found out that I was a brewer by trade.
00:18:08
Speaker
Because at this point I was just a gypsy traveller, mid 20s, just trying to... And you were going to move on weren't you? The plan was this would be the first stop in a longer travel, yeah. Exactly. Trying to do a lap of Australia and, you know, fine. Didn't get too far. Didn't get very far at all. Exactly. And partly because I met my partner.
00:18:30
Speaker
um in town here, and that helped with definitely um setting setting roots. But no, I think it's compared to living in you know an urban setting and in a fast-paced, fast-growing brewery like Stone and Wood, which is so awesome and energizing and a great place to learn.
00:18:52
Speaker
I think um it was nice to find a place that was you know regionally based, um has ah you know a beautiful environment, um but I'm a country boy anyways, so it was sort of nice to be living on the on a quite bit of coastline down here and being able to brew some beers.
00:19:15
Speaker
and So you were here right from the start in terms of designing the brewery, I'm assuming, and helping them all order and set up as they have done? Yeah, totally. so they hadn't They hadn't started making beer when I got here, but um there's this saying that I'm sure like a lot of people have heard in the wine industry that it takes a lot of beer to make wine. and I was kind of expecting when I came down here for the job, for the vintage job, that I would be tasting a lot of wine and learning a lot about wine. But, um, machine las exactly. it just specific ale Yeah, that's right. It's winemakers make, they, uh, crack a lot of, a lot of beer takes a lot of beer to make wine. And so, um, yeah, and it's, uh, it's basically been a slow build from there. We.
00:20:05
Speaker
um You know started with a pilot system of 50 litre batches or grain batches and piloted that with the pubs and then um and then we started And just with the pubs, like in Robe, just real local. Between Robe and Kingston, that's it, where, you know, I guess that was a really handy part that through the winery, we, you know, we already had these great relationships. Pubs were like whole batches at a time as well, you know. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's it. And so, yeah, we started working out how to build the brewery, a bigger brewery, and we converted an old
00:20:44
Speaker
viticulture machinery shed um And we've spent about six years now since we poured the slab for that brew house and we've sort of been growing growing in and around it since since then um and Yeah, I guess it's been um Really interesting to see it going from a from me just smashing out um small one keg brews six seven eight years ago to now we've got six of us working in loophole and Ben, do you want to tell us a little bit about the focus in terms of what you're making? Um, so yeah, our bread and butter is probably like a lot of breweries is, um, pale ales, like we've got our Cape Ale, Pacific Ale style beer. Um, I probably would say that our passion piece, um, is dark beers and sours, um, particularly fruited sours because, you know, for me, one of the most appealing parts
00:21:42
Speaker
of for starting loophole was the fact that the brewery is literally flanked on all sides by different grape varieties. We've got Pinot Gris, Petit Vito, Cabernet, Shiraz that go all around the brewery. So um yeah, that's the the interesting part for for me at least is Um, being able to utilize that fruit, each vintage, and also just the fact that the the space is just teeming with microflora from the vineyards. So, um, yeah, that's, that's the interesting, um, interesting part for me, but, um, but certainly, yeah, we make a lot of lager now, a lot of payload.
00:22:22
Speaker
How do the winemakers feel about all this sort of mixed culture nonsense going on in in the British head? Yeah, that's that's funny because Brett is such a dirty word yeah to winemakers. And um I mean, probably when we saw the loophole, I think like Brett might have been at its peak interest. And um so we obviously had some fun. And even the winemakers really got interested in like making 100% Brett beer. That was like one of the first small batch specialties we made. um And ah think I think ah you know ultimately what came out of that vintage experience was was being grateful as brewers how much like creative license we have.
00:23:08
Speaker
you know, and we we we don't have, um you know, the establishment telling telling us that, you know, that ah we can't be innovative or different. and and But at the same time, ah it's been really interesting to learn some of the winemaking techniques, whether it's like barrel aging um or it's, you know, how to get the most out of fruit through crushing and macerating um and And so, yeah, the funnest part about, I think, working here at Lupole is, yeah, we've got us who work in the brewery, but then we've got the team from Cape Jaffa Wines and the vineyard as well and were one big crew. So there's all this awesome sort of collaboration that happens um across the driveway, so to speak.
00:23:57
Speaker
And I know there's a big focus on, it's off grid, the whole operation here. And even when I came in first time five years ago, and you were talking about other sort of initiatives you're look looking to put in to make maybe sort of carbon neutral, potentially even carbon positive beer. So do you want to talk about the of the sustainability side of the business here? Yeah, totally. um And I think that it was always something in the DNA of Lupole being in the middle of a bi-dynamic thin yard. And also, I guess being regionally Based being a farm based brewery um that you know, and we we need some like any brewery. We need a fair bit of juice to come into site to power some big chillers four for the for the seller or for our cool rooms.
00:24:42
Speaker
And so um when Derek was was faced with, you know, having to pay to get Maine's power, three-phase power up to the hill where we have the brewery, um it made more sense, more long-term sense to invest in an off-the-grid solar battery system. So um I was a little bit skeptical to see like how that would pan out when there is a 24-hour requirement for electricity in a brewery. um But yeah, it's worked out great. where The power is more reliable out at work than what it is in Robe, where I live. And so, yeah, we're fully off the grid on power. And then, I mean, just like any farm-based operation, we can't take anything for granted. Like if we see a drop in pressure coming with our process water,
00:25:36
Speaker
we've got to go and and work out, you know, which ball pump is playing up and hopefully ah we can dodge you something up without having to call the Sparky out from town and stuff like that. And then similarly with the wastewater system here as well, which we take very seriously that, that yeah, we, you know, you really don't take anything for granted, whether it's power or the water coming in or or whatever, it's all part of the ecosystem of working here.
00:26:05
Speaker
You talked about your using some of the fruit from the wire. Have you been growing any other ingredients for beer here as well? Yeah, so we've we've got some back paddocks where we have you know been renovating and cropping and growing some barley as well. So we've got a few beers now that we've made with our own barley, really small amounts, not really from the growing perspective.
00:26:27
Speaker
but from the molting perspective, that's actually the difficult part of it yeah we've been getting altered here is the disconnection between the grower and the maltster. Have you molted any small batch stuff on site here? Or is it allowed to go back and forth?
Sustainability at Loophole Brewing
00:26:42
Speaker
In my more vagrant days when I was down doing the 50 litre pilot system and... I think it used to be called vagrant days. Well, you need to maybe.
00:26:54
Speaker
Yeah yeah well that's and I guess yeah that's totally that would be really going back to how we started the whole process because we're 30 k's out of town that and I was living on site here for the first sort of 12 months um that ah that yeah you have to be quite resourceful. So where did you actually get the the barley malted then?
00:27:14
Speaker
So that was the hardest part of it out of all of it, I reckon. So we had to send it over to House of Malt. And so, which unfortunately now we can't do that anymore because it's crazy, dollar app based. And that was really good. We got it done in a couple of styles, um most of it as Pilsner.
00:27:32
Speaker
And yeah, I think, I think that was, and that was fun to see what we could do and where we could take, um, I guess the, ah the idea of being in a state based brewery. Um, but now, um, once we, you know, get some, grow some more barley, then it's nice to know that AMSA based in Adelaide is probably, um, where we will, um, go and go for next. And we admittedly.
00:28:02
Speaker
Made um you know limited release interesting styles but it'd be great to to see if we can get enough done as baseball one day yeah to to make a meaningful impact on our brew schedule. Hops as well, have you tried growing that yet? That's been tried here but this is a pretty fucking windy part of South Australia. Cape Jaffrey is considered I think the windiest part.
00:28:24
Speaker
of SA, so um it's not like it couldn't be done, but we'd need to definitely sort out some windbreaks. Derek, um my boss, he's he's grown them in the past um and we used some initially in some test batches, but we worked out pretty quickly that if we're going to make a really big impact on ah on a brew, the barley would be the best place to start. yeah And particularly pairing out um our homegrown barley um with um you know ah a sour beer, whether that's a fruited sour or a sour in the um idea of it going through um
00:29:04
Speaker
a wild tertiary fermentation, something that really is part of this place um is what um was where I wanted to go initially with the small amounts. So um I think we've got some, we've got a barrel-aged mild to try later, which is an expression of that. Yeah, great. um well We might take a short break now and then come back, take a deeper dive into some of the beers and your background, getting into beer in the first place and yeah, recharge our glasses, I guess.
00:29:31
Speaker
easy Recharge and discard charges. Jay to the lady would should say. Nice.
00:29:43
Speaker
Okay, I'm here with Steve Hendo Henderson of Rockstar Brewer Academy. Now, many of you may know Hendo, he's got to be one of the smartest people in brewing countless years of experience working with some of Australia's leading breweries and brands. And now with rocktar brewing sorry Rockstar Brewer Academy, you've been helping brewers all over the world make better beer, something we can all aspire to.
00:30:09
Speaker
ah Mate, welcome to the show. It's great to see you, mate. How you doing? I'm good, mate. I'm good. I'm excited to talk about Better Beer. Mate, give me the rundown on Rockstar Brewer Academy. um We've mentioned it briefly or we've talked about it briefly and you describe yourself as you're definitely not a consultant. You're not the guy who comes in to work on a specific project or solve a specific problem. You've described it to me as more of ah a coaching ah community. What is all that about? Tell me more. Yeah, so basically the Rockstar Brewer Academy is ah is a coaching community for professional brewers. So often when brewers approach me, they're experiencing the problem that they want to increase their brewing technical knowledge, but they're either going down the internet research rabbit hole or they're reading countless books which don't give you anything that you can implement in your brewery or they're pestering a local friendly professional brewer in the neighborhood until they wear out their welcome or lowest common denominator they're going to home brew forums looking for advice on professional brewing. Wow. So what I do is provide a a very constructive and friendly community of professional brewers. We're all
00:31:29
Speaker
marching in the same direction and and looking to increase the quality of our beer and reduce costs at the same time and some three pillars and the three pillars are basically coursework, coaching and community so there's a whole bunch of training modules available to members. I host live coaching call events ah almost on a weekly basis so three out of four weeks of the month And then we've got a very lively online facebook private Facebook community where if you've got questions and you need answers, you can post or you can post about your wins and that sort of thing. And it's way better than the um ah you know date the public forums you where if you ask a question, you get six different answers and that sort of thing.
00:32:14
Speaker
Definitely sounds more practical, kind of real life experience, real life tips. Mate, consistency is absolutely one of the key things in brewing. It's so important from batch to batch. What would you say, I guess, are some of the biggest challenges that professional brewers face in terms of of getting that consistency of, you know, um doing it in a way that doesn't impact their time, their bottom line, cost control and so on?
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So there's like the yeah basically when if you're if you're going to be improving your operations in your brewery, the priorities that that I like to put forward is basically start with your safety, and it doesn't take much to get a basic brewery safety program going. Then look at then look at your quality and consistency, and then move on to things like your efficiency and optimization and cost reduction.
00:33:07
Speaker
and that sort of thing. So safety, very easy to to to look at. We've got ah very a single module that addresses that and you can have it implemented within about two hours. From there, all new members of the Rockstar Borough Academy go through a program called Beer Quality Bootcamp.
00:33:24
Speaker
the The objective of that is really simple. It's a 60, up to 90 day program. It's all self-paced. And the promise that I make around that is we'll take your biggest selling ah beer in your flagship lineup and we will brew the best batch of that beer ever.
00:33:42
Speaker
or I'll basically refund your money. Once you finish that, then we start to look at the optimization and cost saving and money saving things and bringing your unit costs down. So that's things like um getting your brew house efficiency up to 90%. It's implementing standard operating procedures. It's reducing your dry hop and raw materials costs by creatively implementing the use of enzymes in your brewery. There's loads of stuff there and um and so we we work together to sort of work out what is the next right thing for the brewer so that they're not overwhelmed with all of the content and drinking the knowledge through the fire hose. Hendo, okay, if someone is listening right now and they're keen to brew better beer, to save time, save money, what's the best way they can get started with with Rockstar Brewer Academy?
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah look the best thing to do is is to book in a free 15-minute calibration call one-on-one with me. um It's not a sales call, it's actually a fit call to see if we're a good fit for each other and if there's any opportunities for us to work with each other. um If you head to rockstarbrewer.com forward slash calibration you can book a 15-minute slot directly into my calendar We'll catch up over Zoom. If I can't help you, I'll point you in the right direction. And if I can help you, I'll let you know and we'll talk next steps from there. Brewers, get onto it. Obligation free, a calibration call, rockstarbrewer.com forward slash calibration. Thank you, Hendo. We'll see you back in a couple of weeks. Too easy, mate. Good to talk to you. yeah
00:35:28
Speaker
Welcome back. Tom, let's maybe go back to the early days and talk about Stone and Wood. Like, how'd you come to be there? And was that your first brewing job? Yeah, it was. Um, so I had just finished uni and even though I'd been, um, I'd been a home, a keen home brewer through uni started off from necessity, but then like, you know,
00:35:52
Speaker
became fascinated with the process. um But I'd still, like when I'd graduated, didn't actually consider um brewing, becoming a brewer as a job. um And it must have just been stuck in the uni bubble. So this is back 2012, 2013.
00:36:12
Speaker
And, um, I went home to start, you know, applying for jobs after I graduated. And my dad said, Hey, why don't we go down to stone and wood and have a tour? I'm like, Oh, that sounds great. Um, and you know, dad had been like, uh, he, he had an important job of doing a lot of taste testing of my brewing and all of that. So he could see I was interested in it, I guess. And so we went on a tour.
00:36:38
Speaker
there and, um, still at the original Bironia street site. Exactly. And, uh, Luke, Luke Rutland now at Grady Island. yeah He gave the tour on Friday afternoon. And, um, I guess he could see the, my interest in it being a home brewer. And he said, Oh, Hey, would you like a job? And I couldn't talk on the tour. So then I started that next week, as we all do on the packaging line. And,
00:37:04
Speaker
They didn't offer your old man a job. No, they didn't. Did they still have the green hose with the holes in it spraying the bottles coming off the line at that point? Yeah, of course. Yeah, there was a... Held on with cable ties and yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's it. And then thing, you know, it was a captivating site to work on because it was running 24-7. Like that little bottling line, Amy was, um yeah, was running from Sunday night through to front ah Friday night.
00:37:34
Speaker
And um yeah, I just loved every part of, you know, of working there and, um you know, being there in a really high growth phase. And for the first 18 months of working there was in Byron and it was, it was absolutely amazing that it was a new tank.
00:37:56
Speaker
got put in place, new fermenter in place every month. So wow it was just, oh, really um amazing to be a part of that sort of growth. And this is when pubs were clamouring for their beers and couldn't get it and all yeah with that. We couldn't keep it up. That's it. And it was ah it was like once a month, we got to brew a Jasper ale or a lager. And that was the highlight, like limited release beer was um was was not something that we could do. They were core range, but there was almost like limited release because everything else had to be specific out here. That's it. So now that was um yeah that was how I got into the industry. and i think
00:38:35
Speaker
Um, it was really fun being there while, um, the transition and setting up, um, the Mullenba site as well. And you made some friendships, um, with fellow brewers there. I know you could mix with Nick at Molly Rose. He makes a beer named after you. That's it. Is it Sowatom because of your personality or because- Oh, great. That's going to come up in the sense of you. Thanks, Nick. But no, that was, um yeah, so Nick took me under his wing a little bit. um And I don't know, i I read the production plan wrong, I guess. And I, um it was my first night shift and I, I mashed in because the tank wasn't full and that's what- you know, what you do, you fill up the tank as soon as possible. But yeah, and we didn't want to mash, they didn't want me to mash in on my first night shift. They wanted me to just make sure that I could you know transfer the beer and the boiling line was good and stay awake. That's it. And um I'm like, I realized pretty soon afterwards
Astral Project's Beer-Wine Hybrids
00:39:37
Speaker
that, yeah, I just don't have any steam pressure here. And so I had to turf that mash
00:39:46
Speaker
out of the Lord a tonne and then Nick, he took some of that mash, he noticed that it was smelling really nice a day or two later and he made a balloon of ice out of it and added strawberries to it and um and then yeah he called it sour tongue. The beer was born. That's right and so now I get to remember and drink One of my mistakes, forever. It's a lovely day. Yes, it's great. Back to the starting wood days, you know, it would have been very intense. Was it three years you were there? Yeah, more or less. I think it might have been about two and a half, but it was, yeah, fast pace. It certainly tested
00:40:31
Speaker
um you know, tested me on whether it was the right industry if we for me, because I didn't know any better, but yeah, the twenty the the graveyard shift brewing um was pretty intense, but overall, it was a really good experience. And um just to be able to see what a really fast growing business that's really utilizing Every hour of a shift and, um, and even having a really decent sized crew, like it was a crew of like 70 or 80 by the end of my time there. So it was, um, yeah, it was a lot of fun. So essentially home brewer finished uni two and a half years at stone and wood, one vintage here, and then you're designing and building a brewery. And here we are now, but still here at loophole.
00:41:20
Speaker
yeah Yeah, exactly. and it fact It's a pretty fast pace, you know, roll into being a foundational brewer, a new new brewery. Yeah, well, yeah, thank you. I mean, it is a very small site that we have. It's a 12 heck of a house. You're uniting your mentor every every week here. No, thank God. That would be, that's really nice that the goalposts aren't changing super rapidly. I think what I like as well about, um, loophole, um, you know, was it was great having the challenges from the start with, you know, the type of site
00:41:53
Speaker
to set up based on the fact that we're off the grid. But also the industry has gone through a lot of change since I started at Sonamwood, where to see it start with, you know, the Pacific Ale being a real groundbreaking style and then for it to just go really fucking crazy with hazy IPAs and like really expensive beers with interesting additions or interesting barrels to age them in and then to come out the other side I think um
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's been, it's been interesting to reflect on, um, on, you know, what, what you need to focus on as a, as a head brewer or maybe, um, maybe in my case, someone that, um, you know, is trying to say, well, what, what, where the goalposts for us and how much more do we want to grow and all of that? And you have said you've been sort of growing organically, steadily over time in terms of the evolution of the beers. When I first came here five years ago, you know, there's the mid or pale, the red IPA might have been on as a, or the dark IPA might have been but be on by then, but you've done a lot of interesting stuff. You talk about the fruit sours, you had a Brett, you know, Peano or something in the in the tank when I first came through, you've done the astral suit. You know, you've done a lot of different things basically over the years.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's probably my fault in general because I think that, you know, ah going back to um why I got into brewing was probably just through university and what I studied. It was just an interest in microbiology and um fermentation in general.
00:43:38
Speaker
I think it just led me down um certain rabbit holes and so um and as well, when you develop a taste for Belgian um sour beers, fruited beers, and then you find you know there's definitely all of those things go through your mind. We've setting up a brewery in the middle of a vineyard.
00:43:58
Speaker
so So yeah, I think I'm lucky that I get to express kind of my interests and what I'm interested in with brewing, but also, um you know, it's been it's been nice to, particularly with I guess lagers becoming more popular in the last um few years, um just be able to hone I mean the craft and ah you know keep all of the machines running that's probably ultimately been um that the part of you know that i'm in that part of my career where um yeah it's easy to put a site together but um you know that the things that you learn is when you're.
00:44:42
Speaker
three, 400 kilometres from a major city and um you're off the grid. It's a regional brewery that um yeah, it's it's it's been ah it's been fun just learning about how to maintain all of this equipment, doing a lot of it ourselves and choosing the right equipment that doesn't require a lot of servicing and stuff like that.
00:45:03
Speaker
And what about some of the beer wine hybrid stuff you've been doing, like maybe making use of beer? Yeah, an Astral project. for They have a cult following in Adelaide, particularly within the industry. I think every time you talk to an Adelaide brewer, they're talking about it, but just so people understand what what that is.
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's good to hear. It's definitely where, um you know, where the the passion piece is. Essentially, the Astral Project is a um is a collaboration between the vineyard, the winery and the brewery. And each vintage, way um we start chatting.
00:45:42
Speaker
to the winemaker, the vineyard manager, and, you know, see how the the vintage is progressing. Obviously, we yeah only have to walk five meters out of the rear. You can see how the pativa dough or the pinot gris going. But then, yeah, you start to formulate ideas on some different techniques. um And as well, the the weather of the vintage does play a big part. um So, yeah, we've we've Now gotten to the point of, after experimenting over the last five or six years, we've worked out there is plenty of enough microflora on our grapes. and I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that it's the vineyards are biodynamic, which help helps of all of that microflora.
00:46:28
Speaker
um And so yeah, we've got some wild um wild ales in barrel Our current releases are Is a pino grease sour that's completely wild um and The basically we had hand-picked, whole bunch of Pinot Gris that's macerated in a very simple um ah very simple work, a very pale, simple work. And I think, um um yeah, there's just so much more room for innovate innovation with vineyard products.
00:47:05
Speaker
and So the fermentation is being kickstarted by the grapes. Yeah, essentially it wasn't a grope wasn't inoculated. We actually installed on that vintage an open fermenter from the winery so that we could, you know, it obviously helps when you're putting hundreds of kilos of fruit in it. You need an open fermenter. That's right. And then you need to get rid of it. um And so, so yeah, but I think definitely where we'd like to see um this this project, the actual project go is get more wild, more spontaneous. Just now we're we're we're working out um how much um much microbiology is in the air. Yeah, so are you sort of thinking through the beers like a winemaker or with them in terms of like, you know, this Pino's particularly juicy this year, kind of, and you're like, ah great, like this is what else to do it with or the malt base and that kind of thing?
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah, more or less, I'd probably say that ah generally a bit of a rule is, you know, it's very easy to um lose focus on the fruit with you overcomplicate the malt bill.
00:48:16
Speaker
So generally, like in the case of the one and we're we're going to taste in a moment, is very light um and bright. And because, you know, the there's a lot of sugar in grapes, you don't need to be um going too high in gravity with the brew. But in saying that, I reckon maybe one of the nicest um mixed ferment beers that we made with some Shiraz was putting a really nice base of crystal malts behind it. Um, and to really get that kind of like candy flavor through, um, through the beer. And I just love what, you know, that the brightness that some of that acidity from the grapes, um,
00:49:03
Speaker
Did you get a chance to trial these on a small batch first or have you got one go because it's kind of vintage bags, I guess? Yeah, we don't really trial too much. um We're lucky that our brew length is really small anyways. We've got a 12-heck brew house and we get the efficiencies through having four vessels. um But, you know, we do a lot of our experimentation at that brew length.
00:49:26
Speaker
And yeah, it puts pressure on, but after- It's experimental, so it turns out how it turns out, yeah. You have to spend a lot of money on a on um pilot or smaller system to get the quality out the other end. So I'd much rather have all my gadgets and good gear at the ah the full brew length and and and play there and just just make you know hope that we'll sell it. Do you like one or two a year with the Astral Project? what's the what What's the plan with that? Generally, I mean, we were lucky enough to pick up a champion trophy in 2020 for our merlot sour. And then I went a bit crazy at the next vintage. and It was your yours to do it. you could You could tell Derek, right? That's right. That's how well it did. The Astral Project is the loophole now. No, it' the it's the new Pacifica. That's right. Exactly. It's going to be knocking down our door. It's the Astral Project. We're going to have to extend the shift pattern out, guys. but You're working your next row.
00:50:25
Speaker
That's it. and so yeah but now we We do try to rein it in a bit, particularly with seeing that other beer styles have become um popular that we have to do. We have to be making more lager at the moment and um there's always a demand for hazy IPA. so yeah we we We experiment um with a couple of batches each vintage.
00:50:51
Speaker
Um, at the moment, but, um, hopefully it's something we can be doing more of. I think that, um, in terms of, you know, hopefully making a bit of a meaningful impact on, um, uh, the beer landscape in Australia, I think that's the way that we can really do it. Like, uh, with us being ah an estate based brewery and being off the grids, I'd love to be making more of these fruits
Local Ingredients and Unique Beers
00:51:17
Speaker
and sours. cool it looks pretty glorious and i know most people won't be looking at this but it looks pretty glorious in the glass there's a kind of viscosity to it which i'm assuming comes from the grape juice in there
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I think as well, it's always it's always interesting when you're making a wild beer or you're not inoculating it to really see where it gets to, where it stabilizes at, that's for sure. um Do you think you could bring wine drinkers who just don't like any normal beer, whether it's a pale ale, a hazier stout, low, or whatever, bring them over the line with something like this? Because it is there's so much wine character in in that Pinot Gris sour.
00:51:58
Speaker
I think ultimately, um you know we're lucky we get to see a lot of firsthand feedback from consumers where we've got um the cellar door here, which sells both the wine the the wine and and our beers. And we've definitely seen, um now we've actually got whole paddles of just sours, um including these vineyard sours.
00:52:20
Speaker
And I think for me, you know, you you learn to brew in numbers, you're chasing gravity, pH and temperature and IBU and you're looking for relationships between those things when you brew beer.
00:52:36
Speaker
And I think that when it comes to sours, where you don't have to worry about IBU as much, except for the ATO. And you, you're looking at other things like acidity, which is a really important part of wine. And it's a bit of a, was a forgotten part of beer up until last few years. um It opens it up to a different crowd completely. And, um and yeah, so I think that it's like a session wine, really, in a way.
00:53:04
Speaker
to an extent this one you know Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. um And I think particularly the fact that South Australia, yes, it's, um it grows a lot of amazing grapes to make amazing wine, but it's, it grows, ah you know, that's, it grows a lot of amazing malt barley. And for me,
00:53:27
Speaker
uh while we don't have a lot of hot farms in this day it was sort of for me tying things together where you got something that it's predominantly getting its flavor from barley and and grape something with two things we're growing here yeah and um one thing we need to talk a lot about is is mead um and sunlight for cure it's a liquor it's a Drink that's probably not that commonly made in Australia.
Mead Experiments and Sustainability
00:53:51
Speaker
I was fortunate enough. I yeah um Remember having a blind to drink easy, you know late a number of years ago and um just being blown away by it like I was genuinely like I'd
00:54:04
Speaker
need to stop writing about beer and devote my devote my life to this to this stunning liquid because it is such a unique drink. So so how did you get into it? Yeah, thanks Will. Well, um, I think it was, it was probably, it was back at that, that time in 2015, 2016 when um I was questioning whether I wanted to be a brewer. There's a huge market for me out there, that's the way I'm going. No, it's more so about like with some of the things that I studied and um
00:54:42
Speaker
you know, maybe looking at, I think, starting to use honey in home brews and things like that. And maybe just questioning the sustainability on some of the brewing ingredients that we use. I just started adding more and more honey by proportion, two beers. And all of a sudden there was no barley. Look at what you've got. More or less, I think there's other things like, cause honey,
00:55:10
Speaker
Um, ferments a lot more similarly to, um, wine than it does to beer. And I think that was another little motivation to come into a vintage, but it's just trying to understand. So if you launch something like, like a while at stone wood or no it's purely playing around at home.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, pretty well. And um and then I linked in with a mate of mine from uni who um was ah was a beekeeper who lived down here in SA and sort of just always a bit of a project. It was a way for me to be able to um really make what I wanted to make and push the boundaries a bit. I think I love honey because um All across Australia, even in some really marginal landscapes where you can't grow crops, you can get a honey flow going or at really interesting um you know times across the year when when native um flora will be flowering. And I think for me, It always speaks to place, doesn't it? Like in the way it's made, it's always going to be purely a place. That's it. And it's so it's a great thing we with honey is that because um honey production in Australia or honey harvesting in Australia is still very much a family-based industry, um you can get, you know, these really site-specific, crop-specific honeys. And I guess that was, you know, the interest in playing around. And I think
00:56:42
Speaker
In terms of the little business, it was um a great education in, you know, like learning the other aspects of running a business. And the things that I'd taken for granted, you know, looking at um my time in Stone and Wood, like,
00:56:59
Speaker
um Yeah, the Pacific Art was a groundbreaking beer style and all of that, but um it made me um respect my other bosses,
00:57:12
Speaker
um um Ross and Jamie and the contributions that need to be made. in branding, marketing and sales to run a beverage business. And so, um, so yeah, it's, it's been a really good learning curve making the mead. And you've been out foraging like wild honey for some of the meaders that right as well.
00:57:36
Speaker
Yeah, there's been there's been different things going on there. um You do need a really good amount of of honey to make a commercial base of mead and all of that, but robbing farmer's markets.
00:57:50
Speaker
Yeah, well, or even just developing like, uh, I think that was one of the fun, the funnest aspect of making the meat is chatting to the beekeepers and seeing where their hives are at because it's a real, um, it's a real process and art to, to making sure they've got enough forage for their bees and where they're moving their hives to what's flowering. It's a, it's a, I always enjoyed the the conversation with them to understand a little bit more about what was going on in,
00:58:19
Speaker
In other parts of south australia or even when their hives are coming down here to the southeast um so yeah i'd hopefully can continue to make. Make more made but probably what i started to realize is how like niche of a market there is. does anyone know me From retailers or is it like.
00:58:40
Speaker
Yes, it has to be at a sell a door or like a market or yeah don't tell me about the meat heads as well. I want to know ah about craft meat nerds. i Yeah, I think maybe the bit that was always um maybe was an added challenge. um For us, was the style of me that we made. I think that, um you know, ah ah traditionally, more often than not, me is high in alcohol and has a high viscosity and a high residual sugar. um And I think with us, essentially what we were
00:59:18
Speaker
um making there um was like a seltzer based version of ah of a mead and so a lot light lighter and drier sparkling and I think um yeah I reckon there's definitely a market for it like we're looking at what seltzers and sodas Um, hard sodas and things like that of um and honey sala could have but then, uh, a part of that kind of kills me a little bit as well. Your soul just starts crumbling. Yeah. That's right. Um, but, uh, but yeah, it it'll be interesting. I've got some, um, fire gravity needs aging in barrel now. And I think we've, uh, look, uh, We've becoming a father in the last few years and and having a young family. um It's um just focused on what pays my bills, which is brewing beer for loophole. But it will be, it'll be interesting to see how that space develops. um And yeah, and say see, hopefully I can be finding some interesting um honey flows out there and um and be able to make some more of it.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah. I can't let this part of the discussion pass without bringing Nick Sandry back in because you shared some of the hardiness you've used in your mead with him for some Saison. And I thought it was Oh Honey Honey one or two. It was one of the best Saisons I'd ever tasted. you know And that was a collab in the sense that you provided some of the honey to him. Is that right? Oh, Nick's and he's an amazing brewer, as you know.
01:00:57
Speaker
And he's always had, um you know, an interest in Saison. I think he was really introduced me to Saison when I started brewing at Stone and Wood. And yeah, it was, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, and ultimately goes back to what I was saying that that's where the um real interest in making a meat is, is starting with the base product, the honey and the different types of flavours you can get.
01:01:20
Speaker
um from different areas. So ah yeah, that's always fun to do a collaboration with Nick. It was great that I had a choice this time. And yeah, no mistakes either.
01:01:31
Speaker
yeah nick was brokeque yes
01:01:37
Speaker
And Tom, I mean, you know, ah you pointing this group at this point in your career in beer, like, is there anything you'd sort of wish you'd known earlier on that you could tell yourself? Um, I guess, um, I guess what, what would I wish to have known more of? Um, uh, probably would have, yeah, I would have liked to know more that the brewing job, um, as a shift brewer, it requires, you know, uh, you basically just.
01:02:18
Speaker
um, looking after machines, like, um, whether it's, um, the, the various equipment needed for canning or, um, you know, loading trucks. And I think that was, um, you know, that's, it's now become like the favorite aspect of my job. Um, but yeah, loading trucks. No, no, you the i we're recording on just before we started. So you obviously got that mechanical mind sorted. I don't know about that, but yeah, I think it's probably, um,
01:02:49
Speaker
I don't regret anything really, but um that was that was the interest going into brewing beer with the real interest in the in the process and the recipe and all of that. But then realising that ultimately the main job as a brewer is making sure that you don't blow anything up.
Local Craft Brewing and Community Engagement
01:03:06
Speaker
And Tom, do you have like a big hope for beer in the future, other than buy more funky mixed culture stuff or wild ferments?
01:03:16
Speaker
Um, I'd probably say that, um, I think every time I, um, you know, uh, bring someone into the brewery on a tour or whatever, I think I probably, I, and then by the end of it, you get lots of really interesting questions on the process and, and why are we, we're doing things in a certain, certain way or why.
01:03:40
Speaker
Some beers can be in a printed can and other ones have to be in a label. And you end up having all these really interesting um conversations and and you know explaining to somebody you know what are some of the hard the challenges that we have at brewing at this scale. And I think the the number one would probably be, um you know it's really impossible for us small brewers to be able to sell a beer um at the same price point as some of these big breweries. um But once you explain to somebody that this, the craft industry that represents six, seven, eight percent of all the beer made in Australia employs 50 percent of the workforce. Yeah, I think that it'd be great if more people knew that. And I think
01:04:37
Speaker
Go on a brewery tour and you know see a job yeah you might get a job. Exactly. We need more hands. we We enjoy employing a lot of people and I think that's become you know one of the the most pleasing aspects of my job is that now I'm like an old guy on site and you got These young people that you get to train and you learn some things off them as well. so So yeah, that's probably what I would say is go on down and visit your craft breweries, ah knock on their doors, walk through, you might get a job. Yeah, I think that's really important. were We're in a country, on the outskirts of a country town right now and you know being an employer like you are, like
01:05:24
Speaker
giving people jobs in winter that they wouldn't have otherwise. It's a major part of the story. We stopped for you to get a soft drink in, is it Salt Creek? You stopped at Salt Creek. We stopped at the kiosk and what happened from when when you went to buy your your soft drink? They told me that I needed to go to the boot boutique brewery in Cape Jaffa.
01:05:44
Speaker
Oh, well. There you go. Feud on him. Fire out. So he's obviously, in doing that, he's telling people to come down and check out the local brewery. For listeners, Salt Creek might have a population of what, eight or something? Yeah, it's not many. It's it's not many. I think you only have to slow down to 80 if that's anyny any I did get the feeling that we may have been the first people to stop that day based on the length of the conversation with the barista.
01:06:14
Speaker
Alright, I think we better leave it there. Visit South Creek. Cheers. Cheers.
01:06:24
Speaker
Shout out to brewers, distillers and beverage industry professionals. Don't be the one who misses out on one of the year's biggest industry events. IBD 2025, it's the 38th Boneal Convention run by the Chartered Institute of Brewers and Distillers and it's taking over Australia's distillery capital Hobart from the 3rd to the 7th of March.
01:06:45
Speaker
Over the course of this convention, you'll be immersed in the latest trends, knowledge, technical expertise presented by expert speakers from around the world. There's going to be plenty of social opportunities, too, including the chance to experience the Tasmanian Hop Harvest while it's happening, as well as visits to leading local distilleries. IBD 2025, it's the perfect opportunity to connect face to face with old friends and colleagues and create new friendships among members of our brewing and distilling community. Also, while building your own knowledge and expertise, registrations are open now at ibd2025.com.au. The Crafty Client podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Client website, craftyclient.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:07:40
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, the events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry. Whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with the Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, the Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.