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Feeling Misunderstood As A Sensitive Child: How Christina Perri Found Her Voice
7.1k Plays5 months ago
CW: Miscarriage, Pregnancy Loss, Stillbirth, Alcoholism
In this heartfelt episode, you’ll hear singer-songwriter Christina Perri open up in a profound way. Christina talks to us about her journey from being a sensitive, deeply feeling child to an unexpected superstar. She shares how her deep emotions and sensory processing difficulties made her feel misunderstood and how she found solace in songwriting from a young age.
Christina takes us behind the scenes of her sudden rise to fame with the hit song "Jar of Hearts" and how she navigated the challenges that came with fame at an early age. She also discusses the incredible impact of her song "A Thousand Years," and Jess shares a surprising story about this song with Christina.
In this vulnerable and honest conversation, Christina shares her experience with pregnancy loss, including the stillbirth of her daughter Rosie. She discusses her advocacy work to expand prenatal testing to prevent pregnancy loss and the importance of talking openly about grief and keeping Rosie's memory alive.
Christina also shares how motherhood has shaped her current focus on healing, authenticity, and vulnerability in her music and public persona. She emphasizes the power of connection and shared experiences, especially among mothers, in overcoming difficult times.
Throughout the episode, we explore themes of sensitivity, creativity, grief, advocacy, and the importance of being vulnerable and true to yourself. This moving conversation offers a rare glimpse into the heart and mind of a talented artist and the experiences that have shaped her life and music.
Hear more from Christina Perri on Instagram!
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
Learn more about The Body Safety Toolkit here!
Credits:
Editing by The Pod Cabin
Artwork by Wallflower Studio
Production by Nurtured First
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Question
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Robot Unicorn. We are so glad that you are here. As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott. We're going to get into the big stuff right away.
Sensory Processing in Parenting
00:00:20
Speaker
Do you think that sensory processing problems in parents makes it more challenging to be a parent?
00:00:28
Speaker
That's a really good question. I know. Are you just sitting here thinking of questions that you want to ask your wife? Yeah. Okay. I love it. Yes. I definitely think it's more challenging to be a parent when you have sensory processing difficulties, especially I think about parents who are really sensitive to sounds. I mean, you know, when we have the three girls in the house like this morning, even.
00:00:50
Speaker
before I came here, it was just so loud in there. And I know for me, I have pretty high threshold to be able to handle that. But someone who is really sensitive to noise, that would be very overwhelming. And I think we can often dismiss people with sensory processing difficulties and say, I'll just get over it. It's kids, kids are loud. But what we don't realize is that it's actually
00:01:14
Speaker
physically painful for them to feel that noise or to hear that noise. And I feel like you can relate to some of that. Yeah. I don't know about noises in general. I feel like that's not really an issue for me. Now, I guess this is a perfect segue into what are some things that someone who is highly sensitive or who has some sensory processing difficulties or ADHD or whatever it is, what can they do that will help make their life a little bit easier as a parent?
00:01:39
Speaker
as a parent. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. There's so many things that we can do. One, just understanding this about yourself. So for example, if you're someone who's really triggered by loud noises, knowing that about yourself is huge. And then what you're going to do is you might not have toys with batteries in your house. So I know for me, loud noises are something that I am sensitive to, maybe not as sensitive as other people, but that definitely bothers me. So you know that we don't have really any battery operated toys in the house. I think we have one.
00:02:07
Speaker
We have one. And when we did have more battery operated toys, I would even put like a piece of tape over top of them. And it's okay to say a way that I take care of myself as a parent is I actually don't allow those types of toys in the house. It's too loud, it's too overstimulating. A parent who's sensitive to loud noises might also find it helpful to try and take a full sensory break.
Sensory Breaks and Emotional Expression
00:02:26
Speaker
I used to advise to my clients just once an hour at least, go to the bathroom, turn off all the lights, have no sounds going on and just sit there for a couple of minutes just to allow your body to have that break.
00:02:36
Speaker
But how realistic is that actually though? Like as a parent, we have three kids. They're a little bit older now. We can feel relatively fine with the fact that, hey, I'm leaving after an hour, I'm going to the bathroom, spending a minute in there, whatever it is for a sensory break. But is that even realistic for a parent who has a newborn or a toddler that's destroying their house, ripping all the books off every shelf, trying to climb the shelves?
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, you can't always go to the bathroom alone, unfortunately. Sometimes what I would suggest to parents is if you can put your child in a safe place if you really need that break. Because sometimes it is safer for us as a parent to say, I'm going to put my child in the crib, even though they might be a little bit upset about that, for a couple minutes while I go to the bathroom and just have a quick break so that I can re-center myself and be present and not yelling at my kids when I enter back in. Sometimes that's safer than
00:03:23
Speaker
staying with your kid, but losing your cool and not being able to handle it. Um, so sometimes it is just finding a safe spot for your kids. And I'm not talking about being in there for 15, 20 minutes. It's a couple of minutes just resetting yourself and then coming back out or trying to do that during a nap time. I know during nap times we can just be busy and try and get everything done, but that could be a good time to take a sensory break too.
00:03:43
Speaker
Right. Like we, when in our discussion with Christina Perry, you talked about a bit about like losing yourself when you become a parent the first time and some of the things that you experienced or did beforehand, you're kind of losing that part of you a little bit.
00:03:59
Speaker
Then you talked about writing as an outlet for that. Her writing songs, her music, you writing post for Nurtured First. Is there things like that that can help for a parent who experiences some of these sensory difficulties? Is that something that you would recommend for them or is that a different
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think Christina and I were talking about two kind of separate things, but I think they are often mixed together. So we were talking about how she is really deep internal world. And so a lot of emotions and feelings and things going on inside of herself and how it was really helpful for her as a way to get those thoughts and feelings out to journal them out. And those might be connected to the sensory issues that she was having. That's more like an emotional outlet for her, for yourself.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, but I do think that our kids who have sensory struggles also are often deeply feeling and feel misunderstood. So for example, if I think about a toddler who, let's say, is very overstimulated by lights and sounds, is very triggered by textures, but nobody understands them and they're just getting punished all the time for not wanting to wear socks or something like that. I think then they can start to have this deep internal world and all of these feelings of nobody understands me, nobody gets me.
00:05:09
Speaker
So I think that there is a connection between this sensory processing struggles and having this deep sense of like, nobody gets me, I'm alone in this. And I think for Christina, maybe that's where her writing came out because she was a sensitive kid and nobody was understanding her. And so I think they're very connected. Well, I think this is a good time to get into the episode with Christina because I think the conversation with her was very
Personal Reflections on Parenting and Growth
00:05:31
Speaker
interesting. Let's get into it.
00:05:38
Speaker
The first thing I wanted to ask you about is I saw your puzzle last night. How long did that take you to finish? Oh my God, I'm getting so good at them and I do them so fast now that that's why I was like sort of joking like is there some competition I can sign up for because everyone makes fun of me like my husband and my friends when they come over I'm like
00:05:57
Speaker
It's how I wind down at the end of the day. Like even if I only have 10 minutes to do the puzzle, like if it took me forever to get Carmela to sleep or something, like I'll still give myself that time because I mean, truthfully, I think I might have a little undiagnosed sensory stuff because I'm from the generation of like, one, only boys had ADHD and two, it was just like nobody really noticed, but like, you know, I need to calm my central nervous system. I feel like all the time. So like I have a weighted blanket. I like doing Legos.
00:06:27
Speaker
Puzzles, to me, those are little signs. And so like, even if it's only five minutes, it'll still calm me down at the end of the day. So I actually paced myself because I could finish a puzzle in one sitting. So like that took me maybe three days, but I purposefully stopped so that I can enjoy it longer. Does that make sense?
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah, totally. So it's actually something you enjoy, not just something you're powering through and doing at night. Yes, I just love it. Honestly, I went through a period maybe like three months where I didn't do any and I really missed it. And I was like, I'm bringing it back. And now so I always have one like on our kitchen counter and I'm just like,
00:07:01
Speaker
when i need to focus or when i need to chill out like i just start putting this puzzle together yeah i love seeing the puzzle and i i'm really interested in what you're saying about the adhd and the sensory processing honestly my husband scott who's sitting right here him and i were literally talking about that last night we were saying how so many of us maybe we have adhd or we had as kids that wasn't diagnosed and now that we're parents
00:07:23
Speaker
Those things are so much more difficult to cope with because parenting is so busy and the kids are so loud and there's so many things going on. Do you think that you had ADHD and had these tendencies even as a kid and maybe it wasn't recognized then? 100%. I can't even remember.
00:07:38
Speaker
thinking about how clothes felt on me when I was little, and I thought that everybody felt that way. Almost like one of my earliest memories is not liking the way something I had on felt. Well, this is a great segue into your whole thing. I feel like we are so aware now of our children and want so much to support them and how they came.
00:08:00
Speaker
we're not like trying to make them all the same we're not trying to make them look good or be good or like this model of what kids should be which i feel like i grew up in the nineties and so that's just like what it was it's like i wasn't acting like a good kid my mom would tell me that you know like it's so it's so different.
00:08:17
Speaker
I mean, I absolutely love my parents. My dad's actually staying with me right now. He flew in last night. He's 80. I'm like the youngest of six. So he's like on the older side. And I adore my parents because now I kind of parent them too. And like, I just did a lot of work to love them just as they are and like,
00:08:35
Speaker
Having children was such a healing thing for me to sort of just see how hard it is But also to see exactly what I wanted to do different and I really do Notice all my things and then I noticed them in Carmela and pixie and then I always try to say what I wish I heard Which is so funny because that's like, you know one of our talking points today But it's like that's me every day like every single day. I have a miniature me and
00:09:02
Speaker
Carmella is five, going on, I say 15 and she goes 35. I'm like, whatever you want. She's so emotionally present and so good at communicating her feelings and emotions, but she's such an empath and such a sensitive, spicy one. There's a mom on Instagram, I follow, that talks about her spicy teenagers, and I feel like that's potentially going to be me.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. So Carmela, gosh, I have to be so intentional with the way I say things to her. And I try very much to say exactly what I wish I heard when I was little, because she says things that I said. Like I clearly remember saying to my mom, like, Mom, do you think about thinking and then think about the thought that you're thinking? Like I went on this whole thing. Am I
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, my mom was like, no. And like, shut it down. So Carmela, like almost the exact same thing to me, like two months ago, she's like, mom, do you think about like, you know, why we're here? Like, and like, our brains, like, we just like think things and like, I'm thinking, but you can't hear what I'm thinking. But it's, she went on this whole thing. And I was like, yes, I do. I'm like, absolutely. Tell me more, you know, and it's so wild. It's so wild to like,
00:10:18
Speaker
wonder who she's going to be. I feel like we're raising the kids now that are getting hopefully emotionally what they need or mentally and eating what they need. All these things to thrive. I don't even know who I'm going to make. Is it going to be a healthy me?
00:10:37
Speaker
Who I don't know, could have been, would have been. I mean, you know, I try not to like wish anything of the past, but it will be fascinating for me to see Carmel continue to grow when I like really support her. Yeah. And I can see that in everything that you post and I can see how much you love your girls. And that's something I love about following your page is that I feel like we're very similar in that way where we're both like, we're just like these fierce mama bears who do everything for our kids and we want to support them. And I love that.
00:11:06
Speaker
I was looking through, I think it was maybe your TikTok or Instagram something, and you had this video of Carmela watching you perform. I literally just cried. I'm such a softie to anything like that, but just seeing the way she's lighting up and watching you perform.
00:11:25
Speaker
Incredible, is that? Yeah. Well, it was so special also because, I mean, I've been in my family building years for the past six years. Cramelle will be six in January, and I like step back from performing so that I could build my family. I've done just random things here and there, but with the pandemic, it was even harder to just casually perform. So she really didn't see me put on a show until last summer, like a full show.
00:11:54
Speaker
At that point, she already knows all the words to my songs. She's the cutest little cheerleader for me. She'll actually play a game where she'll say, okay, tell me someone to imitate because she loves acting. I don't know if I'm making a little actor, a singer, a doctor. I have no idea what she's going to be with maybe all of it. She said she wants to be a Dr. Ballerina singer. I was like, cool. But she'll go, tell me to imitate someone. I'll say my husband or whatever, and then I say, okay, me. She goes, I have died every day. She's so funny.
00:12:24
Speaker
I love that. Yeah, so she's just becoming aware of what I do, but definitely was so cute that day. It was a show in New York City, I'll never forget, because she was sitting up in the balcony and I kept talking to her during the show.
00:12:40
Speaker
And after the show and it was over, I was so curious to see what she would be like because, you know, she only knows me as a mom. She definitely doesn't think I'm cool. You know what I mean? She doesn't think like my job is cool. Yeah. And so she like comes in my dressing room and immediately has to pee. Of course, she's like, where's the bathroom? You know, and I'm just like, what do you think? Like I'm like waiting for her like review and she's like sitting on the potty. Right. And you picture just like a mom moment of like sitting right in front of her, like holding her dress up.
00:13:09
Speaker
And it's like hitting her and she goes, are you real? Are you really my mom? And I was like, oh my God, I just like melted. So she thought it was super cool. She really did.
00:13:20
Speaker
I love like every story you've told. I wanted to get into, like I know we've been talking a lot about our kids, but one of the things I really want to talk to you about too was your own childhood. And I know you mentioned the sensory feelings and I know in a lot of the other interviews you've done, you've kind of touched on your childhood and how you're, I've heard you say like a sad kid or a child who kind of felt misunderstood.
00:13:43
Speaker
And, I mean, you said you have six, six kids in your family. Yeah, I wonder if you can touch a little bit more on that. And I know you were raised in Pennsylvania, which is actually pretty close to where we are right now. I've been to Pennsylvania lots of times. Yeah. What was it like to be one of six and to be a child who kind of felt misunderstood? Sure. Oh my gosh. I could talk about this all day, so you'll have to stop me.
00:14:03
Speaker
I'm ready to listen. Thank you. You know, it's funny. I've actually been in therapy for like 27 years, which to me doesn't, I can't even wrap my head around it. I started going when I was eight. So like that should give you like an idea of like, well one, how emo I am, but two, I've been working through this stuff like really intentionally like my whole life.
00:14:24
Speaker
Let's see, I was born in Philadelphia and yes, I'm the youngest of six, but my dad had a previous marriage before my mom. So four of the children are older than my brother and I. So like 10 years older and more. And then it's just me and my brother that grew up in the house with my mom. He married my mom, 1978. They've been married 45 years, I think. So anyway, I did have siblings, but like they didn't, you know, they didn't grow up in our house. So it didn't sort of feel like it was just me and my brother, even though I knew
00:14:54
Speaker
my other siblings, we would see them just like, but not every single day. We grew up in like a really cultural Italian house and my brother was like, he didn't embrace that part of him. And then I think as a small child, I was like, oh, maybe I'm like, I don't fit in here or something. So I also don't want to say that anything happened to make me feel this way. I also think I arrived on the planet
00:15:18
Speaker
With this personality, I'm a big fan of the Enneagram. I'm a four, and I feel like the forest four of all time. That gave me a lot of comfort as I got older that I just showed up. I arrived like this with feeling like I had a missing piece or felt misunderstood.
00:15:35
Speaker
And my brother is the exact opposite. He's just felt like a whole person, always had a passion, always knew what he wanted, always was articulate, all this stuff. And since it was just me and him in the house, I would just compare myself to him, I think. And I would feel like I just had to work harder to fit in.
00:15:54
Speaker
Later on figured out that that had so much more to do with like I said how I showed up on earth and also being an alcoholic I feel like I've been sober now 11 years and everybody I go to meetings and everybody shares how they felt so Misunderstood uncomfortable in their skin like all these things are like common characteristics. So kind of giving you the broad story But this is also like real
00:16:17
Speaker
clunky because this is truth. I don't know what. We believe nature. We believe nurture. We believe all these things. We're trying to make sense of it all as we grow up. I've spent, I don't know, my whole life trying to figure it out. That's also a part of my personality that I just want to figure it out or I want to find the missing piece.
00:16:37
Speaker
When I heard that about my personality type that I will go searching for a missing piece that I would never actually missing, it's so tragic and so correct. Also, I'm a songwriter. All these things, everything makes sense for little me when I get older. Do you know what I mean? But for little me to be walking around on the planet,
00:16:57
Speaker
feeling uncomfortable in clothes or like fabrics or sounds or you know, all those things and then also like feeling a little bit funny in my own family because I wasn't as like shiny and loud and I just wasn't my big brother I just wanted to be him and then to also feel Misunderstood to feel so emo and like I listened to Selena or Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston I didn't in my bathroom and like cry over love that I never had like, you know, I'm like 11 and I'm just like heartbroken but like, you know
00:17:26
Speaker
And I also was obsessed with being
Emotional Support and Therapy
00:17:29
Speaker
in love. And what I also think is interesting, or maybe just to note, my household was really loving, I should say. My parents were really loving. My dad's from Italy, but real sweet. My mom is an angel, honestly, just so kind. She's a hairdresser and very nurturing and giving, and they were married. And we
00:17:49
Speaker
We just had this cute little life in the suburbs of Philadelphia. It was not on the outside looking in. For how much I struggled, I want to say. There were no real factors that were obvious to anyone.
00:18:05
Speaker
was hard for me because I knew it was in here. I knew it was within me. That awareness was too much, I think, for a kid to totally grasp. I remember my mom said to me recently, she's like, I put you in therapy because I wanted to support you and I didn't know how.
00:18:22
Speaker
And it was so interesting we had this talk recently because now that I'm a mom, I feel like I was emotionally detached from my parents around eight or nine. I felt kind of on my own, even though I was not. I mean, I was fully taken care of, but emotionally, and I've always talked about that in therapy. And my mom's like, well, you know, I did that because I just didn't know what to say. And I now know as a parent, that's an incredibly loving thing to do. But at the time, I was like, why aren't you talking to me? Why am I talking to this guy named Brian? You know what I mean?
00:18:51
Speaker
I didn't get it. You didn't want it from Brian. You wanted it from your mom, but your mom maybe felt like she didn't have the tools or she didn't have the ability. So she's like, I'm putting you with Brian. And now like, I don't have any ill feelings towards that. Cause I also know how hard parenting is, but even so, like when I first had Carmilla six years ago or, you know, or when I was pregnant, even I remember thinking about my mom and like my parents and.
00:19:14
Speaker
I actually can't believe how little they knew back then for how much we know now. It feels like it was not slow. It wasn't like an even growth. It feels like they didn't have any of these tools and then now we have all these tools. My mom, whose mom didn't even hug her one time, that was the generation of people who don't talk about anything.
00:19:36
Speaker
they're like the boomers or whatever yeah my mom didn't have one tool you know my my mom my grandmother's still alive she's 92 and my mom takes care of her you know she's like never once probably said to my mom well how does that make you feel i mean still you know i'm 68 yeah right so i'm obviously going into like the the deeper stuff with you because you know it's this is sort of like you know your specialty
00:20:02
Speaker
Yeah, I really picture you as you're describing yourself as a child, as this child who yeah, you have this loving home, these loving parents who don't just maybe don't understand how to help someone who is highly sensitive or who is deeply feeling like like you're describing yourself. And so your brother, I feel like had this like
00:20:18
Speaker
big external world. I have a brother like that too and I love him. But I have a brother that's very similar to him who's like, he was always like super popular. Everybody loved him. He's hilarious. He's so fun. And he still is like that. And I still love hanging out with him like he's the best. And I feel like you're describing yourself and you have like this deep emotional internal world and you're like,
00:20:40
Speaker
Do you think about thinking? Does anyone else think about thinking and think about these deep things? And I can relate to that because I was the kid journaling, like just journaling, journaling, journaling. Oh my God. Me too. And I thought I, well, I thought I liked writing songs when I'm a terrible singer, so that never worked out for me. So now.
00:20:56
Speaker
Now, I just write Instagram posts that make people cry and that's how I channel that energy. But I can picture that in myself too. You're just a deep processor, just processing things more deep. But then if your parents, thankfully for me, my dad is similar and I feel like he was able to have those conversations.
00:21:15
Speaker
Like you said, if your parents didn't have the tools to be like, well, what's it like to think about thinking and, and how does that work for you? Their parents didn't even ask them like, how are you feeling? Like just a basic question. It makes sense that then you're just going more and more internal. Yeah. So you're, I'm just picturing you, you're eight, you're having like these deep thoughts. Maybe you're journaling them out. When did you start thinking to yourself, Oh, maybe I could turn this into a song and start singing it. And maybe someone would want to listen.
00:21:41
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Well, all those things happened at different points. So I want to say I probably started journaling around eight because my therapist probably told me to do that. And I filled endless books. I remember when my parents were moving, they were like, what do we do with these 45 journals? And I was like, save them. Don't throw them out.
00:22:02
Speaker
But anyway, I truthfully didn't... Well, I didn't write a song till I was 15. So I want to say there's some pretty standout years for me, and one was eight for sure, and then one was 15, and maybe not the ones in between so much that stand out as far as just day-to-day stuff. But at 15, I remember falling in love with my first real, real boyfriend.
00:22:29
Speaker
And I mean, he was my boyfriend for like six years. I mean, I wrote jar of hearts about him, you know, so he's like the, he's the guy.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, I actually call him Jar, like me and my band. We all just call him Jar. I have a quick story about Jar of Hearts. I want to hear your story too. But I was telling... So Shannon is a psychotherapist who works for Nurtured First. And so I was telling her, I'm like, I'm interviewing Christina Perry. And she's like, Oh my goodness, you have to show her. So when she was in grade nine, Jar of Hearts came out.
00:23:00
Speaker
So she had this boy that she loved, but didn't notice her and didn't know who she was. Apparently all the girls, she was just telling me this literally an hour ago. She's like, all the girls in my class loved this guy. Like we all wanted to date him, but he didn't know that we all loved him and anything. Anyways, they had to do an art project and they were supposed to like write a meaningful quote. Anyway, she brought it. She still has it. So you can see it here. And in sligraphy,
00:23:28
Speaker
She wrote out all the lyrics to your song. Oh my god, she's my spirit animal. That was me in the ninth grade. Yeah, though that's what I'm thinking as you're saying it. And she says, she's like, I saved nothing from high school. Of course, she has no idea that eventually I'm going to have this conversation with you. I saved nothing from high school but this poster because I was so proud of it.
00:23:50
Speaker
And anyway, well, I love that. I love that. So, well, that was like around 14, right? I was 14 maybe, freshman year and 15, sophomore year. Yeah. So exactly. That's how that was me too. And so I think I started writing maybe poetry. Like I was a girl in high school. I was listening to The Beatles.
00:24:10
Speaker
I had braids in my hair. I went to Catholic school and I would wear like a tie-dye t-shirt under my school uniform. So like just the collar was, you know, like tie-dye. I would wear Birkenstocks, even though they weren't like the approved shoe. And then I would have like a corduroy school bag. Like I was, I was very much a little hippie. That's sort of like, that was my vibe.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, and it was The Beatles. I do often say at 13, I remember I discovered The Beatles, my aunt who was super cool. Everyone has a cool aunt. She gave me a Beatles album. First of all, I fell in love with it. It was Revolver and it was the CD. I remember going to the local music store called Pat's Music in my town.
00:24:55
Speaker
And I was like, do you have any more of these Beatles? And he was like, oh my God. And he actually, it's a funny story, he took the revolver from me and he said, you can't start with this. I said, well, I already did. And he was like, OK, well, forget that. And he took it and he gave me with the Beatles and he said, you're going to start here and every week come back. I'll give you the next Beatles album.
00:25:17
Speaker
And I was like, okay. And so at 13, I do credit a lot of this to my songwriting because it was almost like studying. So I was studying The Beatles without knowing, and I was studying the greatest love songwriters of all time in my opinion, but in a lot of people's opinions.
00:25:34
Speaker
So I think from 13 to 15, I was just studying music. I had yet to write my first song, but I would sit under a tree at school and write poetry at recess by myself. I was so dramatic. I was so dramatic. I still am, but I was back then even worse, and I would smoke cigarettes in the bathroom and not get caught anyway. It's so bad.
00:26:00
Speaker
But anyway, so I fell in love for the first time and then got heartbroken for the first time.
Songwriting and Emotional Healing
00:26:06
Speaker
So that was such a paramount moment in my life, in the timeline of my life. That was a catalyst for so many things because it really formed who I am, I feel like, because I was
00:26:21
Speaker
faced with these feelings that were absolutely too much. I had been super emotional and felt like everything was too much my whole life already. And then when I fell in love and then he cheated on me and I was heartbroken for the first time, I didn't know what to do.
00:26:38
Speaker
And I had my first experience where my feelings were so big, like a volcano, all I could do was write them down and that felt better. And then I sang them and that felt better. Do you know what I mean? It was like my first time having that release and that healing and then wanting that
00:26:55
Speaker
again and again and again. So it really did change my life. And I'm also really grateful for it. So I joke around about being grateful for this guy. But it really did set me on the path of my destiny in so many ways. And I'm grateful for it. So I wrote because I was just so overwhelmed. And I started to write and sing. And I taught myself how to play guitar so that I could write this song and all these songs. I mean, I started writing songs every day instead of poems.
00:27:22
Speaker
So I learned like three chords on the guitar so that I could do that. And then my brother was a signed musician at this point. He was 17. He got a record deal. He was touring the world in the rock and roll band. And everyone thought like he taught me how to play guitar because he's like the best guitar player I know. And the truth is he didn't. I like learned on a video watching like all these performers.
00:27:44
Speaker
And when he came home, I remember he would stop home ever so often and I'd say, oh, look what I could do. And then he'd be like, cool, here's a new chord. And he'd show me a B minor. And then I'd blow my mind and I'd write a song with the B minor. It was so instant and pure. I didn't take lessons. I was not very good. I just was good enough to write. And it was a tool for me. It was a healing tool. It was probably the most healing thing I did.
00:28:14
Speaker
At that point in my whole life, healing is a good word, but comforting. I didn't overeat as a child and I didn't drink or do drugs at 15. I wrote songs and it really, really helped me. I found my thing.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I have said this because I've spoken so many times, whether it's on stage or at schools or whatever, or even in my sober community, I speak often about being addicted to sadness. And so many people relate to that, even though I'm being a little bit dramatic, but not really because I think I was comforted by that because people always say with you that if that's all you know, then that's the thing that comforts you and finding joy then is hard.
00:28:56
Speaker
You can have it, but you don't hold on to it because it's easier to feel sad or because it's more familiar. Whatever our baseline feeling was is my familiar. So sad to me was crying in the bathroom listening to Mariah Carey. That was probably a version of comforting. And so this was my first tool for that sadness.
00:29:19
Speaker
And so I tell people all the time, like young people, or, you know, if I'm talking to someone about, and not probably my girls, I'm going to encourage them to find their things, like find your thing, whether it's basketball or crocheting or painting or music or writing or, you know what I mean? It doesn't, whatever it is, you know? My picture like you, like we were talking about you is like this deep feeling child. You had all these emotions and then you figure out, okay, well I can write poems. That kind of helps.
00:29:47
Speaker
Oh, okay. I can actually turn that into a song and then actually singing. It's like this release. You're like, okay, these are all the thoughts. Thinking that you're trying to explain to your mom, these are all the thoughts that are in my head that like no one is attending. And then you're singing and people are like resonating with it. And that must be all. Yeah. Right. Absolutely.
00:30:06
Speaker
totally, but I will say what's maybe a little bit unique for my story is I didn't perform. I would write these songs and show absolutely no one, and then I would show my mom, and then I had a best friend named Meghan McCandless in high school. I showed her because we loved Michelle Branch and Jason Mraz and Ashley Simpson and those albums I remember. So I was writing these really emo ballads. What's funny is a lot of people
00:30:34
Speaker
especially in high school, like play guitar at a party, you know, and they're like, you know, playing all these songs, everyone knows or whatever. I was the opposite, right? I was singing these like songs called tragedy, you know? I was like, so again, excuse my gut, my character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like no one's enjoying this at the party. I'm not gonna pull it out and be like, listen to my heartbreak, you know? And so I didn't share it as a performance piece. It was more so almost like a diary, you know what I mean? It was the same thing like a diary.
00:31:04
Speaker
Then I remember slowly, some friends have asked me to play something or whatever. Then I remember in high school, I played a show at the all-boys school because I went to an all-girls school. Then there was a talent night at the all-boys school and all my best friends that went there were from my grade school or whatever and they made me play. I played four songs and I ran in the bathroom after and cried my eyes out. I cried my eyes out. I still remember my mom and my aunt and everyone coming after me.
00:31:32
Speaker
If I tell you that I still do that, I don't know if you believe me, but there's something that happens from exposing your vulnerability for me that was exactly the same that day when I was 16 and still at 26.
00:31:48
Speaker
I don't know what it is, if it's the fact that I'm being so honest. I don't know if it's the fact that I have that missing piece and I don't think I'm good enough. I don't know if it's ADHD or some sensory issue and I don't like the feeling of people clapping. I think now sometimes that could be really overstimulating and
00:32:07
Speaker
I don't know. This is something I have yet to totally figure out. I'll tell you, I've been working on it for like 10 years, but I just find it interesting that I reacted the same way that first time as I still do when I perform, where I don't like the way I feel when I get off stage and I have to come back in my body and then I can enjoy whoever came to the show or maybe a great performance or whatever people are saying about it.
00:32:33
Speaker
The second it's over, I feel like most people would feel fulfilled or an extrovert would feel energized, whereas I'm such an introvert that I'm depleted of everything I have.
00:32:46
Speaker
You just get everything you have. You have to like, I guess. Yeah. So when, when that happened to me, when I was 16, I hated it. So I was like, Oh, well, I'm not going to be a performer. Like that's, that's obvious. That was awful. Like I'll never do that again. And what's so wild is from 16.
00:33:04
Speaker
to 23 when I became a professional musician, I probably played five shows in that time. I hated it. I was like, no, no, no. I think I'm a songwriter and I'm going to give my songs to another person. Because once I realized that that was a job, because I mean, I'm moving kind of forward here from 15 to 23. All I did was write songs, right? So that was like the thing. But you asked, your question was like, when did you play a song? And then no people wanted to hear it or whatever. And the truth is I didn't.
00:33:32
Speaker
And I didn't show people and I didn't enjoy that part of it. And so I thought that I would give my songs away. And I was like, that's a job. I found out you can be a songwriter for someone else. And so I moved to Los Angeles on my 21st birthday. My brother was here.
00:33:49
Speaker
And so what's interesting is I did take the steps forward to chasing this dream almost in spite of me, like anyway, as if like the universe was doing it for me. And I was just like, okay. You know what I mean? Like it was snow. Yeah. And I don't mean that in an ungrateful way. I certainly am grateful for this gift and all the gifts that I received from showing up and doing this. But the truth is it was not my first choice because I was so
00:34:18
Speaker
shy. I was so, you know, I love what you said about like my inner world. Like I was so deep in there that I couldn't barely get out of it and get out of my own way. You know, a lot of people say that about doing scary things, you know, to get out of your way. You're the only one that's telling you you can't do it. You know, I had a family that told me I could do it. I had friends that told me they loved my song. I had a best friend who was like my fairy godmother who begged me to play shows and told everyone about me and was my only
00:34:45
Speaker
viewer on YouTube, you know what I mean? Like I had this support and I was just like, no, no, no, no, no. And so the story, the short version of it is I just kept saying yes to things that started presenting themselves to me. Like my friend who was like, can you please play in my living room? My favorite song of yours while I dance because this guy I broke up with on match.com, like broke my heart and I lit all my candles and I was like, sure, fine. And so I'm like playing in her living room and then she put post that video on YouTube.
00:35:14
Speaker
And then some guy saw it, who happened to manage Jason Moraz, who was my favorite artist. And then he wrote me a message on Facebook and was like, do you have a manager? And I was like, no. And he was like, great, I'll be your manager. And I was like, okay. And then he was like, let's record a song. And I was like, okay, well, I have this song called Jar
Christina's Music Career Journey
00:35:31
Speaker
Full of Hearts.
00:35:31
Speaker
pretty cool and he's like great let's record it and so i've changed it from guitar to piano we called it jar of hearts i recorded the version that everybody hears now that was just the demo and never redid it and i'd never recorded my voice like that before i never harmonized five times with myself like it was the coolest day and i thought i was going to give it to someone else like i thought this demo was what
00:35:53
Speaker
that manager was going to then go and give to Kelly Clarkson, not me. Then I emailed my best friend, the demo of Jarve Hearts, the one who was my only follower and listener and fan, I should say. She emailed it. I said, don't show this to anyone. She emailed it to her friend that she grew up with who happened to be the choreographer on the show, so I think we can dance. Then Stacy Tukey played my version of Jarve Hearts on
00:36:22
Speaker
the TV shows, so you think you could dance at 8 p.m. on June 30th, 2010. I was a waitress. This was not what was supposed to happen. And it went number one. And I was like, what? And then I'm like, wait, wait, it's not supposed to be me. It's not supposed to be me. And then it was just me and it kept being me. And then I was performing on the CBS morning show and then I was performing on Jay Leno and then I was performing on
00:36:45
Speaker
So you think you can dance and then all of a sudden I'm on tour and then I have an album and I'm like, well, I have all these other songs and they're like, they're all really good. And I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, so that I'm obviously like summarizing, but it was wild. It was absolutely wild, but I also think it's so cool that like, first of all, that I was really afraid and I did it anyway. Like I was so sick to my stomach throwing up before every show
00:37:12
Speaker
didn't think it was supposed to be me, did it anyway. And I will say, something would happen where I would move out of the way and just enjoy it. And then I felt I was supposed to do it. I felt like it was supposed to be me at some point. I think when I wrote A Thousand Years, I was like, okay, I can't deny it anymore. If John Horst was my only thing,
00:37:33
Speaker
maybe I would have been like, oh, that was just luck or whatever. But the fact that 1,000 years was 10 times bigger than Jar of Hearts and then allowed me to travel the whole world like five times and that every single person got married to it between 2012 and now. Including Scott and I, we walked down the aisle too. Are you serious?
00:37:54
Speaker
I love it. Yeah, his sister is an amazing singer and she actually sung it for us at our wedding. I love that. I'm such a romantic that I do love that and I love how many people tell me that and I feel like I've been included in so many people's wedding days. It's like beyond an honor I can't even like
00:38:19
Speaker
can you wrap my head around it i will say that my two most favorite things are people obviously who got married to this song but also now that are having babies and then play my lullabies for their kids like now that means the world to me because i'm a mom but before i was a mom like obviously finding out that you know how many people included this song on their day and then their experiences like
00:38:41
Speaker
mind-blowing. I actually can't wrap my head around it fully. It's just crazy. It's crazy to be from, in my point of view, someone singing these words I wrote and it's just the best. So thank you. Thank you for doing that. Thanks for having me there that day.
00:38:56
Speaker
It was so good. I know that song is so special to us because of that day and because Scott's sister sang it and that was really beautiful. I know mine is such a smaller scale because I have my Insta page, but there's lots of families there. Do you ever just sit there sometimes and you're like, man, there's just a piece of me in so many different homes and it feels like you're almost spread out all over the world. I think of that and say, oh, I watched your stories.
00:39:24
Speaker
I'm taking your parenting course and I live in New Zealand or something like that. I'm just like, man. It's so cool. I feel similar to you. I just wonder how you must feel this way on such a bigger scale. Everybody knows Christina Perry and they know these songs. How did that feel for you as you're going from this very deeply sensitive child who's like,
00:39:43
Speaker
all thinking in your own world. And now you've like quickly rose to fame, but you're never expecting to be famous. You thought you'd kind of be like the sidelines. And now everybody knows your songs and you're playing in front of tens of thousands of people. Like, how are you feeling?
00:39:57
Speaker
Well, the first thing I want to say is it's not necessarily on a smaller scale. So your experience is probably similar to mine because we're having the same feelings. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter like the numbers. I've never even like thought too much about that, but, but you are right. It does. First of all, it feels amazing to like.
00:40:13
Speaker
Have this authenticity out in the world and maybe you can relate to this to like I have to be so grateful at the end of the day for this job because I'm I'm able to just be me right I was like so many people would say to me that like my songs made them feel better or you know first it was jar of hearts so that
00:40:31
Speaker
Everyone was telling me a really heartfelt, negative or sad story relating to Jar of Hearts. It got much better when people started loving a thousand years because it was more of a happy, positive, I got married to yourself. But Jar of Hearts was like, oh man, I've heard the worst stories on earth. But people were like, thank you for making me feel better. And I used to just say, thanks, but that song made me feel better.
00:40:54
Speaker
I wrote it so that I could heal from my heartbreak. So I love that I'm able to just be myself. I think that's helped me. So to answer your question, I didn't love it. I did not love the attention because it was so jarring and it was overnight and it was just all of a sudden I went from not being known to being known. But I found my way through it by almost
00:41:20
Speaker
navigating it in the way that works best for me, which is two things. One is I love that my music is more famous than necessarily me. So yes, a lot of people know my name or think they might know my name, but they definitely know my songs. And so a lot of times it makes me feel better to say, yeah, my songs are really famous. You know what I mean? But I can go to the beach in New Jersey every summer and have a great time with my family. And only one or two girls will come up to me on the beach. You know what I mean?
00:41:49
Speaker
So somehow I've created this like, I don't know, this is what works for me. And I don't judge anybody's experience with any kind of fame, but I feel like it's bizarre. Overall, it's kind of bizarre. And so in order to not think too much about it or change too much, because you could definitely get
00:42:11
Speaker
If you're me, I'm always in my head, so I can definitely overthink it and just kind of spiral out of all different things, the way I look, the way people feel about me.
00:42:21
Speaker
Something that's really interesting now as a mom and what I've been like sharing and putting out into the world the past five years has been received so lovingly because moms are so amazing and our community is so loving. Whereas when I was only putting out music, people were like, I don't like your hair. I don't like your outfit. I don't like your teeth. You know what I mean? Like I got, I used to get like hate as much as I, not as much, but as with the love, you know? Yeah, totally.
00:42:48
Speaker
But what's so fascinating now is I've been putting out lullabies and just sharing my experience with motherhood and grief and all these things, and it's only positive. I don't hate social media. So many people are like, I hate social media. I'm like, are you kidding? This has been so healing and loving and such an amazing tool for my recovery in so many ways. And then now I feel so lucky to share this side of my life. So I felt great about
00:43:17
Speaker
given songs to the world and that felt cool to help people. But I feel like the past five years has been much more fulfilling to me if I'm being really honest. You know what I mean? Because I'm a mom, so it means more to me. When a mom tells me she plays my songs so her child can sleep because I've been a sleep deprived mom.
00:43:36
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, I've had a child who won't sleep. Or, you know, when someone is in the hospital and they, you know, only want to watch my videos, like the animations that I did for all the lullabies, you know, someone's getting their tonsils out and my son will only watch your videos and he was so comforted by them. Like whatever, whatever the story is. And the truth is, like, I feel safer.
00:43:57
Speaker
you know, if I think about it. So I felt vulnerable when I was touring the world, playing shows and sharing about my heartbreak and relationships and all that stuff. Like, which again, I kind of couldn't have done it any other way. That's just sort of who I am. Like I said, like nothing's off the table. Like I'm very open. I've always been an overshare. I'm super interested in conversations of the heart, you know, just going like straight to it.
00:44:22
Speaker
But that left me very vulnerable and probably pretty scared, like overwhelmed and overstimulated and like on my tour bus every night, like, you know, reeling from the, from the vulnerability of it all, you know. You're basically singing your diary to thousands and thousands of people. That's very vulnerable. Yeah. But again, I have to say, like,
00:44:46
Speaker
was sing along. And I feel like that really helped me. We perceive artists, because I'm a fan first. I was not an artist first. I feel like I have all these artists that I love and admire and still just study, basically. I love continuing to be teachable.
00:45:06
Speaker
I feel like we look at our artists and sometimes celebrities as if they're not real people, where that's just not true. My experience is like, I wonder if the people that love my music and the people that have come to my shows and the people that have sang along could ever possibly know how much they were helping me. Because it probably looked like I was performing,
00:45:28
Speaker
And I got it together and I like come out and I'm dancing and singing and I'm just crushing it. I don't think people would realize that how broken sometimes I was inside and how I didn't think I could do it. And then I would just do it anyway, which is what I constantly teach Carmella, who's very sensitive and thinks, you know, she gets in her head and she doesn't want to go out and do the dance class or karate or, you know, whatever. And I'm teaching her, it's okay. It's okay that you're scared. Those feelings that, you know, nervous, I'm nervous all the time and I do it.
00:45:58
Speaker
you know, I try to do it anyway, whatever. And I think now about if everyone hadn't sang along every single word of Jar of Hearts while I'm singing it, I probably would have thrown up on stage, you know, because I was like throwing up before the show. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But like,
00:46:14
Speaker
Yeah, it really was a collaborative thing. And I think that, you know, not a lot of people share that part because we're supposed to just be so put together and cool.
Motherhood, Grief, and Advocacy
00:46:24
Speaker
It's just like never been my MO. I'm just like, well, not cool at all. I'm a Twilight fan. You know, I love puzzles and Legos. So like, I don't try to be cool, but I like.
00:46:35
Speaker
I think that the most fulfillment I've ever had from this job has been connecting, like full connection with someone who says like me too, like me too with my mom group, me too with grieving moms or with just postpartum depression or heartbreak or all the things that I'm not afraid to talk about or sing about now.
00:46:58
Speaker
It's like the heavy stuff and it's so fascinating because that was me at eight. I just didn't know how to handle it or carry it or process it or didn't have any of the tools to navigate it. But now that I'm older and I've spent so much time trying to understand myself and the world around me, I'm like, all right, let's go. If I can write about things, people are trying to figure out how they're feeling.
00:47:22
Speaker
I love it now. I think my very long answer is like, I didn't love it. I found a way to love it and found my little place in this world and in this industry that's pretty scary and can be really awful. I have found such a little nook that is so loving and so sweet, and I love it now.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like you found such a nice place and you have these amazing moms like every mom I know like plays your lullabies to their kids, right? Like I love that. Yeah. And we're just so connected together because we're all moms and we we can share these collective experiences. So whether you're Christina Perry and people, you know, look at you and as this famous singer, but like your mom and you've experienced sleep deprivation, you've experienced postpartum depression.
00:48:04
Speaker
and like you've gone through grief. I was literally sitting here like in this chair last night. We were kind of prepping for the podcast and my daughter was sitting on my lap and she was saying to me, she was like, mommy, what's the podcast about? Like what's the point of the podcast? I was telling her, cause again, they don't really know what we do. She sees a microphone, right? She's like, what do you do? What's a podcast? So I was telling her how every night before bed, she'll ask me to tell her a story of when I was a kid.
00:48:30
Speaker
And I was telling her, I was like, you know how you always ask me to tell you stories of when I was a kid and how sometimes those stories that I tell you are similar to things that you're going through. I said like, remember how I told you when I was when I was a kid and that there was a kid in my class who wasn't very nice to me and how that made me feel.
00:48:49
Speaker
and how you were actually, you had a kid in your class who wasn't being nice to you and that made you feel sad. And remember how when I told you that story, it just made you feel a little bit safer because you felt like mommy had gone through the same thing. And I said to her, I'm like, that's exactly what I want with the podcast. I said, mommy's going to talk to lots of different people. And the point is that we're going to all share stories. And when we hear other people's stories, then sometimes it makes us feel a little bit better in the same way.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a good answer. And I feel like that's so much of what your music is and like your most recent album too like Ever Gone balled my eyes out like I lost two of my grandmothers in the last couple years and when I listened to that song like
00:49:29
Speaker
It's a different story. It's a different experience, but it's both lost and we can understand those things. I think it brings us together. That's probably why you found this community now because moms, we can relate to each other all on this. Totally. I also feel like nothing levels you out or
00:49:46
Speaker
challenges you more than being a mom. And if that's what we have in common, then my love for every mother, it's so overwhelming sometimes to think, even if it's a stranger on the street, but they're holding a child, I'm going to go out of my way to help them. We are part of this club that is, I don't know, ancient.
00:50:06
Speaker
But it connects us so deeply. And I don't know what else is like that other than motherhood. It's just such an incredible... It's the tribe we all never had. We all actually have it. You know what I mean? I just feel lucky, first of all, to be a mom. I definitely, especially just the past couple of years, I know how hard it is sometimes even to get there. And so I wish the people that want to be moms, that they all get to be.
00:50:32
Speaker
I have changed so much on the inside. Like what you said about your daughter being your biggest critic. Like it's so funny now. Like I only care what Carmel thinks too. It helps me in every area of my life now to see it a different way. It has changed my perspective of myself mostly, right? So like, I don't care if I'm wearing the coolest outfit. I care if I'm doing a good job talking to Klar. You know what I mean? I care if I'm saying the right thing to her. I care if I'm supporting Pixie and
00:50:59
Speaker
She had a little OT thing and I was taking her like, I care so much about them that it just feels so much bigger than anything I ever did. Yes, I've had a cool job and I'm so grateful for that too. But I also feel like if no one was listening, I'd still do it. I feel like I'd still write those songs and I'd still put them in my journal or I still do journal by the way.
00:51:24
Speaker
feel that it's just such a cool part of me, but like the bigger part is mom. I just feel like that's the one that I like wear with the most pride. Like I'm so proud to be a mom, but you know, it's how we feel like when we make it through the newborn phase, you know, and we're like, Oh my God.
00:51:42
Speaker
you know, in the first birthday. Like we did it, you know, like taking almost one. Yeah. And, uh, but I remember Carmel's first birthday, like, Oh my God, like it's like traumatic, but wonderful, but you know, it's every, every emotion on earth. Yeah. And like, you know, and it's so nice to like, Hey, you don't even have to say it to other moms, right? We just get it. But I just love that. Like also that podcast, like what you are doing and your page, I was trying to think today, how I even found you.
00:52:08
Speaker
It had to have been someone posted something of yours or maybe even my explore page, but like, you know, I followed mostly moms now. So I'm sure someone reposted something you did. And then I just like randomly, you know what I mean? Like, I don't remember exactly. I remember that there was one day and this was like years ago. I think we've been following each other for quite a while. I just like happened to show up that Christina Perry's viewing my stories and I remember being like,
00:52:38
Speaker
It was Scott. Yeah, just like randomly. And I was like, she's saying her wedding. Yeah. It's the cool thing about social media. This is why I'm grateful.
00:52:48
Speaker
for it. And a lot of people have asked me, I don't know, tools for grief and tools for getting through just really hard things and still being sober and walking through my life in the past couple of years and keeping my sobriety and all these things. It's always connection. I feel like connection
00:53:06
Speaker
Is like constantly the thread in my life of how i get through anything right and that's sort of something that we learn as we get older and so the last thing to do when you are going through something difficult is to be alone i feel like that should be the last thing on your list because whether it's one person or if you're sharing for so many people it's really for both of us do you mean.
00:53:29
Speaker
so i like learn that a zillion times over and over again but like i feel like that's why social media is just so and again why i'm grateful i found this little look in it because it is really loving and wonderful and i wouldn't stop i mean i did take my girls off of.
00:53:48
Speaker
social media posting every day, I decided an experience where there's a million people following me and the world can be a tricky place. And so I felt when Carmela turned five, I was like, I feel like her body autonomy means a lot to me. We talk a lot about it. And if she decides she wants to be public one day, that's going to be her choice. But I also
00:54:12
Speaker
still make lullaby records. And so I actually did a photo shoot two days ago with the girls for Songs for Pixie because I made songs for Carmella, songs for my daughter Rosie, songs for Pixie. But I feel comfortable putting out pictures of them that I choose that are controlled. So I've decided I'll make sure to share them when it feels appropriate.
00:54:32
Speaker
But even so, that's also something I'm learning to navigate for how big the world is. My mom group is phenomenal and all the moms that follow me, I can still share what I'm going through and will continue to always share what I'm going through as I'm going through it because I'm just learning in real time. I never know what's next.
00:54:52
Speaker
I used to think like, oh, you know, Shirley, that's the craziest thing that will happen to us this year. And like, it isn't like life just keeps being wild and wonderful and hard. And so I feel like that is so back to my childhood. That is exactly how I've always been. Like, I'm going to write it down. I'm going to get it out for me. And then I'm going to share it probably very quietly, you know, in my own way. And then it might help some people. Then this is like this beautiful circle, you know, that just keeps me going.
00:55:21
Speaker
I wanted to talk a little bit. I know that there's this story of Carmella and I would love for you to share it after you lost Rosie. And you can talk about that too, if you'd like to. And I know that you're becoming this advocate for getting this blood test done and I wanted to give you a chance to talk about that too. It's just really important. So yeah, I wanted to give you a chance to talk about that as well.
00:55:40
Speaker
Okay. So well, here's what I'll say and thank you for this platform too, because I'm sure the listeners here hopefully either are already moms or if they want to continue being moms or our first time trying moms or even just mothers, grandmothers or friends that know women that want to be moms. Everyone is sort of included in people that should know this information. So I had a stillborn daughter named Rosie at 34 and a half weeks. I had
00:56:06
Speaker
miscarriage before her and 11 weeks, that felt a little bit more common. Whereas a first trimester miscarriage is one in four women. And I feel like when that happened, I didn't think anything was wrong necessarily. There were no red flags for me. But when I lost Rosie in the third trimester, I knew for sure something was going on. And so I began an investigation on my
00:56:29
Speaker
Self and my health and and went down this road trying to figure out what happened And also because I still very much wanted to give Carmela a sibling and wanted to have another child So I needed to figure out what was wrong and try to solve it in doing all that I realized that I had a blood clotting disease called anti phospholipid syndrome, but the advocacy part of this is
00:56:54
Speaker
I was not tested for this when I could have been because they don't test women unless they've had two or more, sometimes three or more losses. And so what I'm fighting for right now is to just test all women for this, just to get it out of the way in the prenatal screening. It's one blood test.
00:57:10
Speaker
and what it does is it counts your antibodies and it figures out if you have potential for a blood clot turns out both my miscarriages were due to a blood clot which had no signs whatsoever no warning signs i had no symptoms so it was easy to miss and not intentional nobody missed it on purpose i cared very much about my house and i.
00:57:30
Speaker
somehow didn't know when I'm very healthy. So I found out that the way to overcome this problem is just to take blood thinner, which is very cheap, very easy, has no side effects, and potentially could save your child's life.
00:57:45
Speaker
So when I found all this information out, one, it was very healing to me to understand what was wrong. Two, it was very upsetting to know I could have prevented it had I been tested. Three, I decided to spend the rest of my life in honor of Rosie helping other people and saving babies, which is a win-win for everybody.
00:58:05
Speaker
I've been speaking about it. I've been meeting with all different people all over the country. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists are like the people that change protocols for people. I'm trying to do it behind the scenes so women don't even have to worry about it. But the truth is, it's taking forever. And so I started sharing about it. So I was on Good Morning, America. I've spoken at People magazine. I'm trying to spread the word because moms are the best people to do that. There is no better community in the whole wide world.
00:58:33
Speaker
So I think that before it changes moms just have to advocate for themselves or for the people they know. So all you have to do is ask your doctor to test you for it. I personally think you need to refuse to let them say no. I think like, you know, if they're like, no, you probably don't have it. Like I would do it anyway, just to make sure because again, I had no signs of it. But I will say if you've had multiple miscarriages or, you know, even just one,
00:58:59
Speaker
I would take the test for sure to see if you can prevent having another loss. So overall, it's pretty sad story to have lost my daughter Rosie, but I do believe this was her purpose. I do believe that by changing this, we can save so many people and families and they don't have to go through the pain that my family went through because it really did affect me forever. My husband and Carmella, Carmella did therapy.
00:59:24
Speaker
for a whole year. Paul and I did therapy for a year solo together as a family. I mean, this affects so many, whereas someone could just say, oh yeah, if you have a couple losses, but those, each of those losses can be so traumatic that I just wish people didn't have to have any.
00:59:41
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like that's so easily dismissed. Oh, if you've had a few losses, then get it checked out. It's like, well, it's not just a few losses. Yeah, no. I'm trying to put a story to it. Yeah. And like the emotional part I bring when I walk in the room and talk to these people about it. So I'm doing the best I can to get this going. So it becomes just a non-issue.
01:00:04
Speaker
And the truth is like over time, women's health progresses and you have to have stories like this because I think the best analogy is the test for diabetes, right? At 26 weeks, we all get this test. No matter where we come from, where we live, who we are in our background, in our medical history, we all get the gestational diabetes test at 26 weeks. And so I've been using that as a model. Like why did that happen?
01:00:26
Speaker
Why did they add that protocol in for everyone and make it universal? So that's what I'm trying to do for everybody because more and more and more people are losing babies to blood clots and nobody's really talking about it. So I'm just starting the conversation, getting really loud, hoping women will fight for themselves and push against doctors that say they don't need it. Just do it. It's just one blood test.
01:00:49
Speaker
And it could save your baby's life and then save your whole family from going through this tragedy. And so Carmella, she knows about death. She knows a lot of things. I kind of wish she didn't. It might also go with how sensitive she is. And it's part of her story.
01:01:05
Speaker
affecting her and her upbringing, but hopefully it's making her even more sensitive and beautiful. And we have conversations that are just so incredible about life. And Rosie, we talked about Rosie every day. She knows that she is the big sister to Rosie and Pixie. She tells everyone about Rosie. Rosie's life is very present in our lives.
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah, and will always be and I think that there's also a community of people who for many many many years have been quiet about their stillborn children or you know i've just been told to keep it to themselves and i'm also trying to change that narrative and You know just include her in in our family, you know, like we would anybody else and so carmella is a piece of that and I share often about carmella's experience with it because you know, so many people have that experience as well, so
01:01:54
Speaker
Anyway, thank you for letting me share that and I hope everybody who listens will investigate. It's really up to them to look into it, but hopefully it gets to the right person and it can save a lot of people. Absolutely. I wanted to make sure that we had a chance to talk about that because I agree. If you don't know that this is a test that you can take, then you're not going to advocate for it, but I know that moms are the best advocates for themselves.
01:02:16
Speaker
Thank you for using your platform. I'm sure that brings healing to your journey too, to be like, I can have a meeting behind Rosie's story as well. Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to share with you too, you probably don't know this about me, but obviously I'm a therapist, but before I ran Nurtured First and I have a private practice, before I ran those full-time, I did work with perinatal moms. Around that time, I did, around the time where you lost Rosie, I was working with a lot of moms who had experienced loss as well.
01:02:45
Speaker
And just hearing you share your story really makes me think of my experience working with those moms because I remember them seeing your story in real time. And I remember how powerful it was for them that you were sharing your story and that you share Rosie's name so openly and that you talk about it because that was such a big thing for the perinatal moms I was working with is like, I want to share my child's name and I want to share their experience and I want to have them as a part of my life. Like I want to list off my kids and they're a part of them. And, and I think that's a big
01:03:14
Speaker
change that you're really helping make, like with your songs for Rosie and just the way that you talk so openly about her. I think that's really, really powerful. So I just wanted to say, from my clients and the people that I've worked with and people I know, thank you. I think it's making such a big difference.
01:03:31
Speaker
Thank you. I mean, like I said earlier, that's truthfully now the most fulfilling thing to me is just helping any mom in any way. And obviously singing to them is an honor, but I also think that this feels important and I feel a sense of purpose. I feel a sense of a new purpose and Rosie did give that to me. And so I feel like I remember one day I was walking on the treadmill and I'm crying and I'm just like,
01:04:00
Speaker
And then I just remember having this little voice in my head that was like, because you can do this, like you're strong enough for this. And so I do feel like I'm supposed to be this voice and maybe the openness, the sensitivity and the introspectiveness and all this stuff was a gift.
01:04:19
Speaker
so that I can speak about it. What you're doing is a gift to people all over who are struggling with their kids and what to do and say. If it's coming so naturally out of you, it is a gift and I think that I'm trying to do the same thing in my own little way. Thank you for saying that because that really does mean the most to me for sure.
Balancing Career and Motherhood
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah. I wanted you to know that because I see it on my side with the parents that I work with who really, that just means so much to them and especially the way that you name her and just
01:04:49
Speaker
have her as part of your family and you show that, that means a lot. So, yeah. Thank you. There's so many good things that we talked about today. I feel like we can probably sit down for like 12 hours and just talk and talk. For sure, for sure. We need to do this again. But yeah, I wanted to wrap up because I'm mindful of your time and I know you have a little pixie napping. Thank you. Yeah, I'm sure she's up now, actually.
01:05:14
Speaker
I saw that you have a new album coming out and I'm assuming it's coming for Pixie's first birthday, but I don't actually know. Well, we haven't announced it yet, but I know everyone. Well, not technically, but I've given hints all year.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yes, I'm definitely keeping up with my tradition for songs for Carmela, songs for Rosie, songs for Pixie, but then I have a surprise project that's coming out right after that that I've been working on too. So I can't say because I haven't announced it anywhere, but I'm looking forward to it and it's, yeah, I'm really, really excited about it. And then I also just put out a anniversary Love Strong. So Love Strong came out on vinyl for the first time. Atlantic Records is doing like this anniversary 75th year celebration and they picked all these
01:05:58
Speaker
albums to put out as vinyls and they picked Love Strong. So that's just come out too. And then I have a couple of really fun things for next year too. So I feel like I'm wrapping up a little bit on my mom-only day-to-day stuff and slowly peppering in some work stuff. So I feel like I'm going to maybe next year do a bunch of shows and whatever feels comfortable, right, and authentic.
01:06:22
Speaker
But I think it'll be really fun to bring the girls and have that new chapter of my life with them and see what that's like. But to continue to do what I do, you know, with the girls watching and learning from me and how to be, you know, I think it's important to show them how to be working, awesome, chase your dreams, brave, right? If I want them to be all those things and hope that for them, I just have to show them this is what I've learned, you know? And so that means a lot to me to teach them that.
01:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think I can totally understand that too. Like my baby is 17 months now too. So I feel like I'm also like, that's the podcast, right? I'm exiting this season of just like full blown motherhood diapers every single day. And now I'm also entering this stage of like, okay, I feel like I can maybe do the podcast I've been dreaming of for six years. Like maybe it's time to...
01:07:13
Speaker
And having to just watch you is so powerful. So I'm excited to see all the amazing things that you have coming up. I'm excited to hear that you're touring again. I hope that I can come see you. I just absolutely love this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on today. This has been great. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for asking me. And I hope if I play a show, you'll come and I can give you a big hug. Oh, I know. I actually, I wish you were in person. I feel like we need a hug after this. We should. We'll find each other for sure.
01:07:46
Speaker
Let's head over to coffee time where Scott and I share some of our reflections from this amazing conversation. I actually don't know this about you, but Christina was talking about how it was really hard for her to be a deeply feeling person in a world that didn't really understand feeling things really deeply.
01:08:06
Speaker
and how that made her kind of go internal. And I was wondering for you, did you feel like you kind of also had this deep internal world? Were you aware of your emotions and what you were feeling as a kid or was it more, it just came out in your behavior? I think it was both. Honestly, I think so when I was younger, like in grade school, the primary grades, I acted out a lot. So it came out in my behavior. I was sent to the principal's office often. I was kicked out of class.
01:08:31
Speaker
like multiple times a week. I was put into tension at least every week, sometimes for weeks at a time. I got into fights with other, other boys at school. I wouldn't say I acted very great to my peers or to the teachers. I had a very
01:08:47
Speaker
clear sense of judgment or justice. So if I felt another kid in class was getting unjustly punished for something, I would stand up for that kid and then I would usually get punished as well. So that's often why I ended up in detention was because I was standing up for other kids. Because you had a strong sense of justice, which is a really common thing for kids who are very sensitive. I think because you're so in tune with others emotions, you're like, wait, this person's being wronged. That's not okay. And then you feel like you have to stand up for them.
01:09:17
Speaker
Yeah. I remember one kid who like jumped in a puddle and got a detention because they jumped in a puddle right before we had to go in from recess. And I told the teacher that was stupid. And then I jumped in the puddle right in front of her and splashed her. So then I got, of course, a detention as well.
01:09:33
Speaker
I can picture that. I feel like our daughter would do the exact same thing. Something that you were saying I think should just be made note of. So you're coming from this home where you're not having the love that you need as a child. You're having a really difficult time at home. You go to school and now you're having challenging behavior at school.
01:09:51
Speaker
You're getting into fights. You're maybe not being kind to your peers. And the response to you as a child who's struggling at home, doesn't have a loving relationship has actually never learned how to communicate in effective ways is let's take away things like recess. Let's keep them in at school. Let's send them to the principal's office. Let's send them home back home to your family. And I think that that's still a really common response to the kids that we see who are struggling at school.
01:10:19
Speaker
Yep. And let me be clear, none of that worked. It did not stop that behavior. If anything, I had an even more strong sense of justice. So it's actually these people in authority trying to use their power to keep you in, it actually made you not respect them and not want to trust them.
01:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say the only teacher that I had a different experience with in grade school, like primary school specifically, was my grade seven teacher, Mr. Laverde. He seemed to truly care about all the students, including me. And if I ever had issues in his class, like he would take me out and sit next to me and be like, okay, what's going on, Scott? Like, you can't act like that in class.
Impact of Caring Relationships in Education
01:10:57
Speaker
So like what's going on? How can we resolve this together? And I would say he like very rarely was I punished for things in his class. It was more, come on, let's go have a discussion. I'm going to sit, I'm going to talk to you eye to eye and have a discussion with you. And I honestly think that he had a major impact on my life going forward from then.
01:11:17
Speaker
So it's like, oh, maybe some people actually do care, do have some interest in one of the children's lives. They're, they do things logically. They, I don't know. There's like, they have your best interest at heart.
01:11:30
Speaker
And there's actually research to back that up too, that children who are going through trauma or who are going through really difficult circumstances, if they have even one relationship where they feel cared for and they feel safe and they feel seen, they are more likely to have better outcomes later on in life. And so that relationship ideally can come from our parents and our trusted caregivers. But for you, if it even came from one teacher, like that could really change the way that you see things for the rest of your life.
01:11:56
Speaker
I think it's really important for teachers or aunts and uncles or other people in our lives to know that you can make a difference in a child's life, even if you just have a small role. Tell me now, then, because now you're a full grown adult, obviously, and you don't act in that way. You're a very loving father and you're calm. What do you think made the biggest change for you to go from that kid who is always in fights and struggling to who you are today? Because I think people would really want to know that.
01:12:22
Speaker
Well, I think the kind of inflection point was in high school, like early high school, and I wanted to fit in a little more than I did in grade school. So like, it was more of like I was preserving myself, self-preservation for myself. Like I remember.
01:12:38
Speaker
And I think it was grade nine. I realized that I would have like angry outbursts, whatever, pretty quickly. So one day I decided, and this was like every day, I decided to write on my palm SU, which stood for shut up, so that I wouldn't say anything. Even if I was annoyed or angry, I would just be quiet and say nothing.
01:12:56
Speaker
And that honestly made a pretty major impact on how I was able to then make more friends in high school and relate to people better. And that didn't solve the anger issues that I had in high school, but it made me fit in more. And then I started realizing, huh, this is interesting.
01:13:12
Speaker
I am talking less. I'm having fewer of these angry outbursts and people are starting to actually want to hang out with me now. And that kind of got the wheels turning and I started to think, okay, what other traits of mine do I need to work on? And that is when I would say I really started to like be more inwardly thinking and
01:13:32
Speaker
trying to understand myself, how I can improve, be able to relate to people
School Discipline and Personal Growth
01:13:37
Speaker
better. And then we started dating later in high school. And I would say that seeing you and your family made a huge impact on me too. Even this last week, I had a mom reach out to me and she said, Jess, my daughter is in, I think fourth grade. And there's a couple of kids in the class who are causing trouble. And the teacher's response is making the entire class stay in for every recess.
01:13:57
Speaker
I had that a few times too. Yeah. So for four or five kids in the class, now, not only are you responsible for your hurting other people with your behavior, which feels like a lot as a kid, you also are now responsible for your entire class being mad at you. Yeah. And instead of getting curious, oh, I wonder why they're having such a hard time. They're just handing out harsher and harsher punishments and it's impacting the entire class. So I think your story, yeah, that was a long time ago, but this is still happening in schools. And I think it's just really helpful that we can talk about it.
01:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. That's an interesting way to deal with that. It's pretty common. So we need to hear these stories from people who were those kids to help us understand that that's, that's not always helpful.
Reflection and Listener Engagement
01:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. Great. Well, I love this episode with Christina. I felt like we were old friends and her and I could have talked forever. She seemed very sweet.
01:14:44
Speaker
And I feel like you and I have talked about this episode so much ever since we recorded it. And I hope that everybody else loved this episode as much as we did. And we hope to have Christina back again someday. She is so genuine. I think I shared this in the episode, but we've been kind of chatting back and forth on Instagram for so long. It was nice to actually have that long forum to be able to really catch up with her.
01:15:08
Speaker
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We are glad that you are here. If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review. Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all. A five star rating helps us share our podcasts and get these important messages out there. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.