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Has the Timbers win fixed everything?
90 Plays1 year ago
Look, we're not naive. We understand that one win -- no matter how good it felt -- doesn't fix every problem the Sounders have, but after failing to beat the Timbers in six straight meetings does feel awfully good and will hopefully provide some much-needed momentum.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to NOS Arietes. This episode of NOS Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of NOS Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:28
Speaker
A.O. Shen! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win! Here come three years through the middle to crown it the vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Niko Liddo leaves out!
00:01:12
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:29
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Fullpool Wines and our subscribers. We're recording on Tuesday, May 14, 2024. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our engineer, Lickit.
Sounders Break Winless Streak
00:01:44
Speaker
The long civic nightmare is finally over. The Sounders beat the Timbers on Sunday, ending a six-game winless run that stretched all the way back to 2021.
00:01:53
Speaker
I wouldn't say the Sounders did it in anything like high style, but it was a satisfying win nonetheless. After giving up the first goal, the Sounders came roaring back to tie the score on a somewhat speculative shot from Christian Roldan that took a favorable deflection and beat keeper Maxime Crapoe. The Sounders then pulled ahead on a masterful Raul Rui Diaz goal
00:02:12
Speaker
hitting a first time shot with his left foot from about 20 yards out that floated ever so gracefully over Crippo's head. From there, the Sounders kind of shut it down for the final 40 minutes, but for all the possession the Timbers had, they only managed four shots and never looked particularly dangerous. I don't think this is how the Sounders want to necessarily play, but we're not at a point where we can really be too choosy. Aaron, how encouraged were you by not just this game, but that they're now on a four game unbeaten run?
00:02:42
Speaker
I think that the four game unbeaten run is definitely the place to focus your positive energy, I would say. This game, I'm thrilled with the outcome in this game. I think that.
00:02:52
Speaker
games against the timbers are gonna be like this a lot of the time. For every game where the sounders get the doors blown off or they blow the doors off the timbers, you've got six or seven pretty much exactly like this that are tense, not a lot happens, and it's narrow margins or a draw. This was a pretty standard sounders timbers game.
00:03:12
Speaker
I do think that the Sounders going down early against the Timbers on the road and forcing their way back into the game and then just completely shutting down the Timbers from their own out. I think that's super encouraging. I think that the thing that I think I have and I think to some degree you as well, your big concern has been obviously the play.
00:03:34
Speaker
but the potential for a spiral, right? For pretty decent performances that could do some sharpening up in front of goal.
00:03:44
Speaker
getting guys back and healthy, that could, waiting for that could turn into just a total downward spiral, which kind of looked like it was coming in the Vancouver game, for example, right? And I think that we've gotten a lot of evidence and probably no evidence better than in this game that that hasn't happened yet. And maybe we're not really at risk of that happening anytime soon. And so I think that's encouraging for sure.
Defensive Strategy and Youth Trust
00:04:10
Speaker
Uh, and you know, the game state in this game, the Sounders didn't really have to do a whole lot after the second goal. And it would be great if they could have scored four or five. But I think they're in a situation now where if you're getting a good result on the road against arrival,
00:04:26
Speaker
The important thing is to try to see it out. Look for your opportunities, sure. But trust in your defense, which has been elite once again all year to get the job done. And they did. The tempers looked just completely toothless for 90% of this game. And you got to feel good about a win on the road.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think there is plenty of room for frustration over the way they played offensively. They didn't generate a lot of high quality chances, but they didn't really have to. And I think that's kind of one of the important notes here is that there is a, like you mentioned, there is a game state aspect of this, is that like when you're up to one, you don't need to be crashing the box and throwing numbers forward and doing all the kinds of things that we want the sounders to be doing.
00:05:15
Speaker
And it, you know, I think it was a sense, like, I think they played this game sensibly, you know, I liked, I was very encouraged. Like, I think maybe the most encouraging thing that we've seen these last couple of games is Schmetzer, Brian Schmetzer, who we have beat up a lot over his unwillingness to
00:05:35
Speaker
take out veterans and replace them with young guys, not just in a starting lineup, but like even in games. These last two games, the players he's turned to, to see games out or to try to pull out results have been young players and the guys that he's been taking off have been the veterans. You know, guys like Jow Paulo,
00:05:57
Speaker
Uh, Albert Rostenach even, you know, uh, Jordan Morris came off in this game, not, not too early, but you know, he's pulling, he's making moves that I think are at least getting closer to what we wanted to see. Right. Like he is trusting, putting some trust in, in younger players. And so I find that all.
00:06:17
Speaker
That's all encouraging to me. I think the other thing, just kind of more broadly speaking is like, this was the stretch where we were worried about the wheels sort of coming off because they, you know, they were entering this stretch of games where the games were just coming fast and furious, you know, between April 27th and May 29th, they're going to end up playing.
00:06:43
Speaker
they're gonna end up playing nine games I think and Because they they were just gonna be or no, they'll play ten games they were gonna play one more than that, but They they got the the June 1st game moved which ended up working out pretty well for them but you know, they're halfway through this this stretch and So far they're they're two one and two and
00:07:08
Speaker
I'll take it, you know, like this is, this is, this is looking like it could be a stretch of C of the season where rather than sinking the season, it sort of writes the ship and that's, you know, so like they've got a long way
Schedule Challenges and Young Energy
00:07:20
Speaker
to go. Don't get me wrong. Like the schedule does not get easier for these next few games. In fact, I think you can argue it. This is like the harder part of the schedule, but you know, I'm for the first time optimistic. They can get results.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I think one of the things that's really encouraging for me is that the Sounders defense has been elite all year, all of last season as well. They're not leaking goals. You know, they, they, they haven't had that problem really for, for quite a long time. So it's not like they're, they're chasing the game in every aspect. They know they've got a solid defense. They know it's going to be tough for teams to score on them. And when you've got a situation like going into RSL on Wednesday, where it's a very good team.
00:08:03
Speaker
But you feel confident you have experience knowing that you can keep good teams off the board. It just makes it a little easier than when you go in feeling like you're going to have to score a goal or two to take anything from the game. And that just gives you more of a platform to success and when you're able to get a couple of wins and reasonably quick succession.
00:08:23
Speaker
And not feel like you have to win every game to get back into the race. The Sounders are what, three points below the playoff line now. Most of the season left to play. It's not good. Like you said, there's still a lot of work to do. The schedule is still extremely daunting.
00:08:40
Speaker
But it doesn't feel just like a black hole and completely insurmountable now. It feels pretty achievable to get right back into the thick of the playoff race. And yeah, it's I wouldn't say the vibes are fixed by any stretch of the imagination, but things are really headed in the right direction. The team is hopefully going to start getting healthy soon.
00:09:02
Speaker
healthy or they're never going to be fully healthy. I think we can say that was pretty high level of confidence at this point, but you know, they're getting big pieces back, hopefully. And it is, you know, you talk about the younger kids getting more of a chance. I think that
00:09:18
Speaker
Schmetzer sometimes needs a proof of concept to feel comfortable doing things. I think against the Galaxy, he got that proof of concept where he sees the kids in training and they're not at the level that a lot of the regulars are because they're not expected to be yet. They're younger, they don't have the experience, but when he sees what their energy and their willingness to try things and their lack of
00:09:41
Speaker
frustration or whatever it is that's maybe holding some of the regulars back and sees that in practice in a game and sees how that can be beneficial, then things can start to snowball a little bit in a more positive direction with regards to usage patterns and things like that. And I think having that energy to come in late in the game to close things out is really nice. I mean, it's one of the things that made even some of the positive results this season
00:10:07
Speaker
not the most pleasant watching experiences was that when the kind of body language sucks. Well, and just the knife edge that everything felt like, right? Cause you have these players that had played like 180 minutes in a week, slogging through the last five minutes against the union, for example, where you're getting a result, but it just felt so hard and it didn't feel that way against Portland really at all.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. I thought that the energy like they were still fighting, they were still, you know, like all the all the markers that you want to see of a team that looks like they are kind of, they're up for it, for lack of a better term.
Home Game Concerns and Raul Rui Diaz's Role
00:10:47
Speaker
And, you know, while we're on the subject of things that that aren't quite fixed,
00:10:54
Speaker
We're going to get a good test against RSL, I think. And I and I and I don't necessarily think that the Sounders need to win this game. They might not even need to get a result in it. But I. I think it's an important game for them to show to continue to show the same type of energy. But this white, the White Gaps game on the weekend is is is a big test, right? Like they it is. That's you know, they got to start winning some home games.
00:11:23
Speaker
They've had a fair amount of success on the road, which has been good to see, but they also need to be able to carry that into home games. And I think for the vibes to really change, and I think if we're talking about getting fans sort of believing in this again,
00:11:38
Speaker
They got to show them something at home. And I think that's where you have a lot of and I'm hearing this a lot. And I think it's totally justified that the fan frustration is not it's not just that they are playing uninspiring soccer. It's that.
00:11:56
Speaker
at home, it's particularly dire. Like, I don't know, like, okay, so the Montreal game was fun. That's great. But on a week to week basis, there's just no, there's not I mean, it's, it's, you know, they've got outside of the outside of the Montreal game, I don't know that they've scored an open play goal.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, I don't I I don't think they have yeah because they scored a penalty against the rapids They didn't score against Austin. They didn't score against the galaxy And they didn't score against Vancouver Yeah, yeah, so that's that's the four other games that they've played at home and that's you know that that starts to beat folks down and Yeah And so that's really where this has to change that said
00:12:48
Speaker
from a practical perspective, they're now at a point where they don't have their heads above water, but they are at least sort of able to buy themselves. They appear to have bided them enough themselves some time to get Pedro de la Vega back, which presumably will inject some energy back into the team. And then if they can get, you know, if they can be around the playoff race in the summer and they actually make some signings,
00:13:16
Speaker
you know, maybe there can be a real paradigm, you know, between De La Vega coming back and you can kind of talk yourself into, okay, maybe there is something really here where we can, it's not just about making the playoffs. I mean, it should never just be about making the playoffs for this team, right? It should always be about aspiring to something bigger than just making the playoffs. And I think that there's reason to believe that that can happen.
00:13:52
Speaker
You know, one of the areas I did want to get into, and we're going to deal with some of this stuff in the second segment, too. But I want to focus in on Raul Rui Diaz in this game, where I think it was sort of a perfect encapsulation of the good and bad of Raul, where he scores an absolute goal also. And I guess, you know, we've talked a lot on the podcast or in the Discord about repeatable actions.
00:14:21
Speaker
And I think what I'm coming down is the goals themselves are not necessarily repeatable actions, but if he can consistently score. Golosos like, I don't know, maybe, maybe that's repeatable. Yeah. I don't, I think that Raoul is a player that scores great goals.
00:14:43
Speaker
And he always has been. And I feel like that is not the part of his game that has dropped off. So I think we get hung up on the XG or whatever of a single chance. Right. And and that. And so we see something as a low XG chance. And it's it's like, well, that doesn't count almost. But Raul has scored a fair number of low XG goals over the course of his career.
00:15:08
Speaker
I think the problem with Raul is not the good, like the great, impressive, low XG goals that he's been scoring. Certainly not the penalties either, because people also want to kind of discount his penalties. And I get that, right? It's not the same as scoring an open play goal. But it is pretty nice having a guy that is almost automatic from the penalty spot. That's not a bad thing to have on your team. But the problem is all of the other goals he's not scoring, right? Like he's not scoring inside the box.
00:15:37
Speaker
He's not making the runs inside the box. That's the thing that worries me, I think, is that he's not even making that run anymore. Yeah. And that is the thing that separated Prime Raoul from a very good MLS striker was he did all the things a very good MLS striker did and the other stuff that very few MLS strikers did.
00:16:02
Speaker
Now he's doing the things that very few MLS strikers do, but without the other part that makes up the bulk of your rage. It's just, it's the contribution isn't the same. And I think that obviously Raul's primary value, any, I don't want to say any striker, but Raul's primary value to this and any team is going to be his goal scoring and he's not doing that.
00:16:28
Speaker
But I don't think he's been bad in other phases of the game. Like I think he's much better this year than he was last year because he is scoring some goals. And he's doing a lot of hard work off the ball. And I think he's been pretty good defensively. He's pressing well. All that stuff is great, right? Like I don't think that.
00:16:46
Speaker
If you look at his performance as an isolation removed from the context of the team or his contract, I think he's been an above average player this year, but that's not who he is supposed to be. It's not who the team needs him to be, maybe more importantly than that. And yeah, and so I totally understand the frustration with him, but I do feel like sometimes that can lead to a tendency to sort of devalue the things that he is doing well and scoring goals like this.
00:17:15
Speaker
is something he's always done. And it's one of, I think, probably one of the last skills that's going to go, right? Because it's not about athleticism or explosiveness. It's as much. It's just about pure skill and vision and a willingness to try shit.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he's certainly willing to try it. It was one of the funny things I was looking at the stats from this game. And, you know, he tried for this second, you know, for the second time, he tried to chip the keeper from near midfield. It didn't come off. And I was just was kind of looking at the data around that. And I was shocked to see that it's unlike the.
00:17:55
Speaker
The previous one, which had different factors going into it, I think the big factor was it was the first touch directly off a turnover, which is always going to be a relatively high XG chance, no matter where you shoot it from, apparently. But this one was more of a, I'm going to have a go here, and it was worth .01 XG. But what was crazy is it was worth .54 XG OT, which
00:18:25
Speaker
seemed very counterintuitive. That means that if you get that shot, basically what it's saying is like, if you get this shot on frame, it's going to go in half the time. And to me, that seemed kind of wild. But I guess if you really think about it, if you're putting that shot on frame, chances are it's probably probably going to be a goal. He scuffed it and it didn't didn't come off, obviously. But
00:18:53
Speaker
I don't know. I just, I almost wonder if the Sounders feel like they've identified like a, a quirky thing where it's like, no, bro. Well, actually that's a good shot. Like there, you know, there used to be a saying, uh, back when I was playing basketball and sort of the, uh, the Loyola Mary mountain system was coming into vogue. There was this idea that is like, there was no, that the best time to shoot a three was on the break because.
00:19:17
Speaker
That was the best, your best chance to get a rebound from it was in that same situation. And it was sort of a counterintuitive idea. And I'm almost wondering if it's a similar idea here where it's like, no, actually chipping, trying to chip the goalkeeper is good. Like take that shot. If, if it could lead to a team as exciting as those loyal and air mount teams were, that would be, that would be great. I mean, that was as good as basketball ever was for me, but, uh,
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I have no problem with those speculative shots really because they're generally coming from a situation where there's not a lot going on in the attack.
00:19:51
Speaker
Um, I, I guess in this situation, maybe there, there was other stuff going on in the attacks and just could have stuffed out, but you know, it's, it's early, you're, you're at midfield. Um, there's no risk of it turning into something the other way. Quite the opposite. In fact, like your defense is never going to be better set up for it. And he's done it before and not just this season. I'm, I'm totally fine with those kinds of efforts. Um, it's the ones from.
00:20:18
Speaker
28 yards into 10 sets of legs that are maybe a little more frustrating for me. Yeah, and I will say the other thing about attempting those chips, and it's sort of like the same thing as when you keep trying panancas and they keep working, it sort of becomes this gamesmanship thing. And, you know, the part of the reason that chipping the goalkeeper is or even attempting that is useful is because you're basically forcing the goalkeeper to
00:20:44
Speaker
stay on and, you know, to be more conservative. And so he's not able to come out and play balls that he might otherwise play. And you get him thinking about that stuff. And so, you know, I guess these are my point. We've got a guy off track here, but I guess the reason I brought it up was just that I think, you know, Raul does seem to be doing some good things.
Physicality in Portland Game
00:21:06
Speaker
I don't know that he's a particularly great use of a DP. This is something we can talk about in the next segment, but I thought it was worth
00:21:13
Speaker
bringing up here. One of the other things I wanted to talk a little bit about and to focus on the Portland game was the way it was, how physical this game was. Like if you just look at the fouls, it wasn't, there weren't that many fouls, but I think anyone, there were only 18 fouls called in this game.
00:21:30
Speaker
But that's what this was one of the most physical games I've seen played. And at first, it was very frustrating the way that Alan Chapman was not calling fouls, but he was so consistent about it. Yeah. And that it was hard. It was like I almost and the game never did get out of control. And it and it was like the players because I.
00:21:53
Speaker
I actually thought he managed it okay and it gave it a different flavor than we're used to seeing. I don't know that I want to see every game played like that, but it worked. It kind of worked and I think the sounders really, it worked for the sounders especially I thought.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. I think that I'm with you and that if I had the ability to set the precedent for this is how we're going to call games, that's way too physical for my taste. Yeah. And I think it, I think it led to a lot of the caginess and a lot of the lack of fluidity and attack for both teams. Sure. Yeah. But my problem with the way these games usually get called when the idea at the outset is to
00:22:43
Speaker
let them play is that the referees let them play and let them play and let them play until they don't and it becomes really tightly called and it's almost as a rule going to be unevenly called at that point because
00:22:58
Speaker
one team is going to have the lead and so the other team is going to have more incentive to be a little more physical, blah, blah. Anyway, so if you're going to have that precedent, you're going to set the precedent, you've got to follow through. You've got to let it stay that way the whole game. You can't decide in the 80th minute, okay, now I'm going to start handing out cards. And yeah, I thought Chapman is not my favorite referee, but I do think he is generally pretty consistent and even with the calls.
00:23:26
Speaker
You know, I understand the inclination to say in a game like this, we are going to allow more to happen. And yeah, I don't have any complaints with the refereeing, which is, you know, not maybe normal for me, but.
00:23:42
Speaker
I'm hoping that the next one is maybe a little more tight though, because it was a little Scottish premiership type action at times. There were a couple instances where there was a tackle that it's like, oh no, that's going to be a fail. And then the other team had a very similar tackle. And you're used to seeing the second one get called almost every single time. And I will say it takes some time.
00:24:09
Speaker
It takes something for a referee to be like, nope, I just I just let that exact thing go. I'm going to let this one go to it. And I'm going to go that one's going to go to. Yep. Sure. Sure. Yeah. OK. Are you getting it yet? Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it can be. Those games are actually more fun for me to watch as a neutral.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, because you can definitely see and appreciate the calling it both ways a little more than when it's your guys getting crunchy, you know, yeah. But I really, yeah, I mean, I do. I do think he was he was he was quite neutral call it right down the middle. It was just quite agricultural out there, you know.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah, I at one point I remember saying to myself like Felipe Amora is not going to get a call like like that was like that's the the striker for the timbers and it just seemed like he never really adjusted to the way it was being called and I guess Christian was sort of the same way to where he kept getting he kept waiting like really expecting a call like there was a there was a play that was right around the time that that Rui Diaz attempted that chip where
00:25:20
Speaker
And it's like, it's one of these things where the guy gets the ball first, but he fully cleans hold on his legs out. And it's, I mean, you're going to see that called
00:25:33
Speaker
I mean, 90 out of 100 times, probably. I mean, it's that's called all the time now. And it was just like, there is no way that it's like, no, he got ball first. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it did seem like the team's kind of figured it out later on and they almost self-regulated. Like, they're like, it never got out of hand. It never, like,
00:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, because I think that where the escalation and the inclinations to be actually dangerous come into play is when you're like, why aren't we getting any of these calls? Yes, I agree with you. And as long as it's both ways, it's like, well, I don't want to, since he's not calling anything, I don't want to go and studs up and have the same thing happen to me, you know, five minutes later.
Morale Boost from Timbers Victory
00:26:20
Speaker
So yeah, it's a, you know, it's about all you can ask for, I guess.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah. And I, I guess I'll just reiterate that I thought the, like so many times in the last couple of years, it seems like the sounders have not been able to rise to the timbers intensity level. Like they just didn't quite grasp that the timbers were a desperate team and they needed to be too.
00:26:49
Speaker
And this was the game where I felt like the Sonders did. Like, they understood the... Like, I hesitate to use this analogy because I don't really like it, but I do think there's this element of trench warfare where it's not so much... It's just the idea that the ground that you're claiming matters, right? And so, Stephen Fry sort of talked about this in the postgame where
00:27:16
Speaker
you know you you clear the ball and you move your lineup five yards and then you clear and then and then you you win the ball back and you clear it and you move your lineup five yards more you know and you just keep forcing the timber the opposition to start their
00:27:33
Speaker
their possession sequence a little farther back, you force their, you know, frontline players to drop a little bit more. And you just create this space in front of your goal that gives you some cushion. And we saw, I mean, like the timbers had four, like I said, they had four shots over the last 40 minutes. All of them were from 22 yards out or farther. They were not, they were barely getting
00:27:57
Speaker
touches in deep in the Sounders end. And I think that was sort of that same, that, you know, mentality of like, we just got to push the game farther away from our goal. We don't need to hold that play. We don't need to necessarily play the game on their half, but we just got to make them push it farther out. And it's and it didn't. Like we said, it wasn't pretty soccer. It wasn't expansive soccer. I'm not. It's not an inspiring soccer. But right now,
00:28:27
Speaker
The sounders aren't in a position to be choosy about the way they're getting results and if this is how they got to get results. Especially against the tempers. Especially against the tempers, exactly. If there's something that can mentally turn things around, I think finally breaking the duck against the tempers after, what, three years now is the thing. If the team needed an emotional spark,
00:28:56
Speaker
That really feels like it could be it, you know, and yeah, they have to break their lockers, you know, I asked Adrian today if he got a bill from merit for the locker room and he just sort of laughed. He's like, I'm sure I'm going to get one. Yeah, I think that's probably okay. I think you can probably say you happily pay that inflated price, whatever it is.
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think I definitely I understand the desire to get back to fun attacking soccer. Yes. And I think we will at some point, but I do not think that this is a game where you can be upset that you didn't get it because I think even in the best of times, you frequently did not get it from this game.
00:29:43
Speaker
No, and if this was a 2-1 win over Minnesota United or pick a random Western Conference team at home, I think I'm a little more frustrated with the way they're playing. But this week, I'll take it. Absolutely. You know, this RSL game, if they want to grind out a 0-0 tie, I will not complain.
00:30:08
Speaker
will not complain at all. However they want to beat Vancouver, if they beat Vancouver, that's fine too. But at some point, I want to see better play. But for now, I'm satisfied with results. Unless they get a... The Phoenix Open Cup game result is fine. Yeah.
00:30:30
Speaker
Unless they get enough results that they rocket back into the top of the table, then I don't care. I just want to keep winning. There's a very narrow sliver where I actually care about good soccer. That's what we're learning. Fair enough. We've gone into this habit. We've started doing question segments as part of the normal episode.
00:30:55
Speaker
I guess we're going to do that again in the next segment. So come back, listen to our mini mailbag episode that we'll be doing in the second segment. This is Nosodietes.
00:31:17
Speaker
We'll go back to Nos Adiattes. So we are doing a little mailbag here. I'll just remind everyone. We field these questions from our Discord, if you want to get involved in the Discord, even if you just want to lurk.
00:31:32
Speaker
and see what people are talking about. You just have to become a sound or heart subscriber at the $75 a year level, or the supporter level is what we actually call it. And it's a good time in there. We have almost 600 people on our Discord down. That seems like a lot to me. That's a lot of people. Yeah. So, you know.
00:31:59
Speaker
Take that for what you will. But if you want to come, just shoot us an email. We'll get you all set up. And you can ask questions. So Aaron, what do you got for me?
00:32:10
Speaker
Alright, first one is from 3rd string star. Where are the Sounders with Leo Chu at this point? It's clear Brian isn't keen on playing him even though he always seems to contribute. Greg has brought in a more expensive option and beyond that, the staff has slid Chu down to 3rd choice with Jordan sliding over to left wing. What's the outlook for a player in this position? I can't help but feel like it's a major roadblock to this team. Should I be looking for a move this summer or are they just going to keep him in this limbo? Seems unsustainable.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, that's a, I mean, I think you make some fair observations. It does seem like he, he, he doesn't have a totally clear role. I think part of that is he's been dealing with injuries this year. And so it's been harder to assess where he really is on the depth chart. And I think there's a lot of moving pieces here. So I don't, I don't know if he is
00:33:06
Speaker
out of favor as much as he... I think you're right, though, that he doesn't have a clear role. And I don't know. I mean, if the sounders could find someone to buy him at this point, they'd probably take that. But I don't think it's... It's not dragging them down. I mean, he's not taking up a huge cap hit. They have an open U22 spot. So it's not really hurting the sounders to have him.
00:33:36
Speaker
Might not be his ideal setup, but... Yeah. I think the biggest frustration with Chu for me is that I like him. I like his game a lot.
Leo Chu's Role and Youth Impact
00:33:48
Speaker
I think that he has severe limitations that get overlooked. And I think that the... Real limitations, yeah.
00:33:56
Speaker
And I think that the hope when he was signed was this is a player we're going to be able to develop and make a profit on, right? Or at least break even on. He can be a contributor for a few years. And it just seems really unlikely that that's going to happen at this point. And whether that's just, it just didn't work out. Whether that speaks to the team not being able to develop a younger attacking player.
00:34:23
Speaker
whatever it is, bad luck, who knows. It's not a great outcome, I don't think. Yeah, I would agree with that. But I'm really hopeful that he can get healthy consistently the rest of the season and contribute. I mean, I think it feels to me, then this is based on nothing but observation. It feels to me like the odds of him being back next year are pretty low because he would be back in a much higher cap hit, right? Like he wouldn't come back. Well, I think if he's still
00:34:53
Speaker
Oh, well, let's look. If he has an option here, it would still he'd still count as a U-22. Well, in that case, that kind of changes things because he he still could definitely have a breakout year and either become a key part of the team or somebody that they can move. But yeah, I think he's going to get here on him.
00:35:16
Speaker
OK, well, that's good. That's good. I think he's going to get plenty of minutes down down the stretch, though, for the rest of the year. Like, I just think that there are too many games and.
00:35:28
Speaker
Obviously Pedro de la Vega is coming back soon, knock on wood, and we'll stay healthy, knock on wood. And so there's going to be competition, but I think he's going to get opportunities. I think he just has to really make a lot of them and people can say, well, he's scored a goal and he's contributed with assists and things like that.
00:35:50
Speaker
I mean, we have a longer history than just this year, just the time he's played this year. And there's just been a lack of consistency. And I think that if he can establish himself as somebody that can be dependent on and contribute game in and game out, that's going to do a lot for his chances to get significant minutes.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. This is from Oscar Paul. He says, can we talk about and take a moment to appreciate the ability that Andrew Thomas had to throw the ball nearly half the length of the field? I love fry, but that's clearly not something he has in his bag. Just curious if that added skill could help us become a more counter-attacking team and even lead to us actually scoring goals.
00:36:33
Speaker
I feel like Steph did used to actually have a better arm. I don't know if he could ever chuck at the whole half of the field. That was. I will just say that he's not exaggerating. Andrew Thomas. No. Through the ball to midfield on a fly. Yeah. I actually don't know why he bothers kicking the ball at this point. Right. He doesn't want to. Because his kicking is not very accurate. Yeah. He doesn't want to tear labrum or something. Yeah. Good point. It's impressive.
00:37:03
Speaker
I don't think that it's going to be like a Rory Dilap game breaking sort of thing that becomes a centerpiece of the Sounders attack, but I could see a situation in which, you know, that gets you out on the counter. And it's just cool. It's cool. It's a cool thing to be able to do. You know, I love it. I really like Andrew Thomas a lot.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, I was ecstatic when they resigned him because I was worried about losing him for nothing, you know, because Stefan Frez got another year on his deal. And I think Andrew Thomas has shown that he can start in this league.
00:37:43
Speaker
So yeah, I'm very glad that he's going to be around for a while, or at least if he's not, they're going to be able to get some real value in return. Because he's a lot of fun to watch. Yeah. And I think it makes the Open Cup a lot... It makes me really even more invested in the Sounder's success in the Open Cup because I want to see him play. And I think I said this somewhere.
00:38:08
Speaker
But my impression is that he's going to get the open cup as long as the sounders are in it. Which is great. And I think that's how it should be. And he deserves that chance. I enjoy watching him. He was a ton of that whole display. We don't need to relive this, but that whole penalty shootout display was unreal.
00:38:36
Speaker
It's an extremely alpha thing to do, just to just completely win the shootout single-handedly. And then the Tanti opposing team, like, what did they ever do to you, dude? It's definitely some energy that the sounders, I don't know if they've been missing, right? I don't want to say that it's been, that has been responsible for anything.
00:39:01
Speaker
Like as an entertainment product, right? Yeah, exactly. Like it was very Hanuman-esque. It just felt very like he, like I have to imagine, like Marcus was there and I have to imagine he was loving that. Yeah. As much as anyone. Definitely.
00:39:17
Speaker
All right, next one is from Sounder Pilot. Having watched the last three games, LAG Louisville, some teams south of Seattle, it seems like the youth on the team have been the ones bringing the fire and the drive to the game. While not always successful, they seem to be the ones pushing to do more and trying new things. Are we watching the rise of the next quarter of this team before our eyes?
00:39:35
Speaker
It feel, you know, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a, that's a, I think that's fair. That's a fair way of looking at it. And it'll be interesting to see how long, you know, an Obed Vargas sticks around. And, you know, I don't know if we've really had much time to talk about his transformation seemingly into more of an offensive piece here, but, and that's not necessarily one of the players he's talking about, but that's, you know, he's probably leading the charge. Then you, you have, you have guys like, uh,
00:40:05
Speaker
like Paul Rothrock, who's not really young, but brings that youthful energy. Dylantev is similar. Not necessarily young, but he brings sort of that youthfulness. Cody Baker may be a better example of a sort of a genuinely younger player who is also bringing kind of a level of tenacity and whatnot. And I think these are good things. Georgi Minungu is maybe another good example of a player like that. He played against LA.
00:40:35
Speaker
He probably is going to play tomorrow against RSL. So it's, it's good to see these players brought into the team and being allowed to play roles. And I have long said that the thing that has bothered me about the sounders use of their roster is not using enough of it. And this sort of, uh,
00:40:59
Speaker
this part of the schedule has forced Brian's hand a little bit. But I think my hope is that he's learned some real, he's kind of learning that, yeah, if you give these guys minutes and if you give these guys time, they can have a positive influence on things. So, yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think that if the, if your Academy, if you never are producing players that you're selling on for huge fees, but it's producing key players like Josh Tenzio and Obed Vargas, and it's producing most of the backend of your roster, right? The spots that used to go to.
Academy Success and Future Speculations
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
Nathan Surgis or who, you know, what have you. That's a good example. Sure. Yeah. Um, no, no offense to Stephen Surgis, but, uh, you know, if you can give those minutes, Pat Newton, even better example, what's he doing these days? Um,
00:41:59
Speaker
If you can give the minutes that those guys used to get to your youth players, it's cheap. You're not having to give up resources to get them, and one of them might turn into Jostententio. It's just such a huge upside of the Academy. I think a lot of the focus on MLS Academy is because MLS has designs on becoming a selling league.
00:42:21
Speaker
And it is really there in a lot of ways. The focus is so much on, are you selling players? Are you selling prospects to Europe and getting big fees? And obviously, that's great if you can do that. But what the Sounders have gotten out of their academy over the last few years has really been...
00:42:37
Speaker
I think great. I think exactly what you want to get from your company. No, I think if you can produce regularly produce one or two players that you trust to give real minutes to, you're, you're doing great. I think from that perspective. Absolutely.
00:42:54
Speaker
Alright, this is from Andrew. Assuming the Sounders don't move either Rui Diaz or Rusnak this summer, do you think they could or would bring in a player on a loan who is on TAM wages with an option or slash obligation to buy in the winter like the Galaxy did with Ibrahimovic or like Cincinnati seem to be doing with Kevin Kelsey? I suppose it's possible. I think with Ibrahimovic,
00:43:21
Speaker
I don't think it was that straightforward. These are two different categories. Yeah, I don't think Ibrahimovic's deal was that straightforward, but I think that the kind of move that's being envisioned here is plausible. I think maybe more plausible. I don't know. Maybe it's not more plausible.
00:43:40
Speaker
Another possible scenario would be the sounders giving Rosenak an extension and bringing him back. The extension makes him a tan player. He gets more ears guaranteed for more net value. I don't know if that's something they're interested in doing. I don't know if that's something Rosenak is interested in doing, but it's possible, I think. I wouldn't be opposed to it. I like Albert. I just don't like him as a DP.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I want to also put that out there and co-sign that. I really like Rusnak's game. I think he gets a lot of undue criticism, but I fully recognize that he is not producing numbers that you want a DP10 to be producing right now. He's got two assists, which is
00:44:36
Speaker
actually more than he's had before this year, but you want more than that from him. You want him scoring goals. You want him setting up more, you know, direct scoring opportunities. You want him playing like he did against Montreal, frankly, like he looked like a DP and against Montreal.
00:44:52
Speaker
Yeah. And if he can get to that level, great. But I don't think that's necessarily. Yeah. Also, I was just looking at Kevin Kelsey's sort of his his like the loan. I don't know that that doesn't necessarily strike me as a burgeoning DP situation. Like he's an interesting player, but he's 19. So I don't I don't know necessarily that.
00:45:17
Speaker
They could bring him in as a U-22 just as easily. My hope is that the Sounders sign at least a TAM and potentially a U-22 this summer. It seems like they would have that in the budget, in the salary cap space. Those are real players, right?
00:45:40
Speaker
So they should be able to do something real this summer. It would be nice. I think what this person is sort of alluding to is setting themselves up for a bigger move that they probably need to make this next off season. And this sort of lays the groundwork for that. I hope I would like it. There's probably a chance that they could do it. I don't know how much hope I'm holding out for it, but you know.
00:46:09
Speaker
Yeah, they'd have to find a situation where the selling team is incentivized to have a deal like that, right? Where the benefit of having them off their wage books is higher than the potential benefit of hanging onto them and selling them six months down the line, right? At the next window when the sounders would be obligated. Because if that player sets MLS on fire and their value goes up $5 million,
00:46:38
Speaker
The other club is not going to be thrilled with that potential outcome. You know, they're going to feel like they, so they're going to be. Maybe hesitant to make a deal like that. So yeah.
00:46:49
Speaker
The next one is from Joshua. How are these teams, Miami and LAFC specifically, I copied the wrong part of the question, but the rest of it should be fine. How are teams like Miami and LAFC able to afford these players with parity and roster constraints? Did they get offered something other than money? This is not just about sounders, but aside from Miami and LA, no one gets these types of players. How many or why? Is it frustrating to other teams?
Roster Constraints Frustration
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, I have to imagine that it's frustrating. You know, there's a player currently with Miami whose name is escaping me. He's a Paraguay international, they just signed him. And they, you know, he's a he's a player who probably a few years ago would have been a DP type of of player. And instead, he's, you know, in Miami has a roster full of these guys who
00:47:41
Speaker
seemingly are making a lot less than they could be making on the open market. I will say in the case of Olivier Giroud, he is a DP, so like there's no shenanigans there, but like a Gareth Bale, you know, that was another situation where I don't think he's going anywhere else other than maybe Miami or LA on a non-DP deal. And yeah, the Sounders aren't getting kind of those players, I don't think.
00:48:08
Speaker
I don't know how to feel about it. I guess it's annoying, but at this point, I just feel like I'm numb to it. Yeah, it's one of the things you have to deal with in MLS. The Sounders have benefited from it. LAFC, whoever the new shiny is, gets to benefit from it. It's not good, but it is what it is.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah, uh, enter Miami is probably going to win the sports shield. They're probably going to win the, I don't know about probably going to win the MLS cup, but they've got to be the odds on favorites, but messy or retire at some point. And it'll, you know, they'll lose the advantages just like LAFC did and just like Sanders did. I mean, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know,
00:48:59
Speaker
And they're running out of expansion spots, so how much longer can they keep doing shit like this, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
00:49:09
Speaker
I wish we had a better note to end on. And there's another question on here, but I think it's actually one that we had we already took care of last week. But, ah, damn, I want to answer it. Oh, well, did you have Oh, well, did you have thoughts on the sounder's haircut? Because I worked up a whole can of worms on this one last week. You used bad mouthing bold people. Well, they can't do anything about that.
00:49:38
Speaker
Most of the time, right? That's not nice. Why did you have something to add to this? Well, I think that my general theory about youth fashion is that older people think it looks stupid because they remember it going out of style. Oh, fair enough.
00:49:56
Speaker
And so I think a lot of like the haircuts that kids have now, like they have bowl cuts and stuff. And it looks crazy. The duck bill haircut. It looks crazy. Cause you know, you're, and I think you, you have the right to make fun of anything you also made fun of when you were that age, like, like Jankos and stuff. I thought that was stupid then. So I can still think it's stupid, but anything I like, I had a bowl cut for years. I can't make fun of a kid with a bowl cut. Right. What am I doing? You know, so that's all that's a,
00:50:27
Speaker
If I had known that, I would have picked a better one to end on.
00:50:31
Speaker
I should have done a better job of scouting, of editing. I should have listened to my own podcast. We can't all be perfect. I was traveling. That's my excuse. Well, thanks everyone for hanging out with us and us getting this ready before the RSL game. So hopefully you listened to it. And hopefully if you listening to this after the RSL game,
00:51:00
Speaker
everything we said didn't get completely blown up by whatever happened in that game. Unfortunately, this isn't the important one. The Vancouver one is more important. Yes, it is. Well, with all that, I want to
00:51:17
Speaker
say thank you to our sponsor, Football Wines. I want to say thank you to all the Sounder at Heart subscribers out there. I am finally getting finished up paying taxes from our first year in operation and I'm reminded that we had a lot of subscribers.
00:51:38
Speaker
Wait a positive spin on it. Yeah, that's I'm putting a positive spin on that. But with that said, I'm Jeremiah Shan, sending out for Aaron Campbell and Lickett. This is No Study Yet. Just and remember, you will never get alone.
00:52:50
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!