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Where do we go from here?
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We wanted a test and we got one. Unfortunately, it’s hard to escape the reality that hte Sounders failed it pretty badly, falling 3-0 to LAFC on Saturday.
I think the scoreline was probably a little unfair as the Sounders generated several good scoring chances, had a legit penalty shout waved off and gave up two goals they shouldn’t have, but they were very obviously second best either way.
The Sounders are now 0-5-5 against the six teams ahead of them in the West, which certainly suggests they have a ways to go before they measure up to those teams.
Mark Kastner joins Jeremiah to discuss how the Sounders move on from the loss and head into Leagues Cup.
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"Diversions", "Observed without knowing" audio provided by Sounder at Heart subscriber Lars; find more of their music: https://despatchesfromseattle.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Will Bruin's Podcast Involvement
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network.
Sponsorship and Support for Nos Arietes
00:00:11
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Fullpool Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Fullpool was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:00:36
Speaker
Let's go!
Seattle Sounders MLS Cup Victory Celebration
00:00:39
Speaker
A save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup winners! They've come three years through the middle to crown it for Seattle! And now they truly can't start the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Michael Adero leads out to the Reno Dump! The Sounders win!
00:01:36
Speaker
This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome.
00:01:42
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of NOS Adietes, sponsored by Full Poll Wines and the Sound Rit Heart subscribers. We're recording on Tuesday, July 23rd, 2024. I am Jeremiah Shan. I'm joined by my co-host, my special co-host Mark Kastner, as well as our engineer, Lickett.
Sounders' Defeat by LAFC: Performance Gaps
00:01:58
Speaker
Well, we wanted a test and we got one. Unfortunately, it's hard to escape the reality that the Sounders failed it pretty badly, falling 3-0 to LAFC on Saturday. I think the score line was probably a little unfair as the Sounders generated several good scoring chances, had a legit penalty shot, waved off, and gave up two goals they probably shouldn't have, but they were very obviously second best either way.
00:02:20
Speaker
The Sounders are now 0-5 against the six teams ahead of them in the West, which certainly suggests they have a ways to go before they measure up to those teams. Still, they are in seventh as we head into the league's cup.
Sounders' Standing and Areas for Improvement
00:02:32
Speaker
I still don't know if we have answers to a lot of our big questions, Mark, but how would you assess the overall picture as we sort of take a breath here and restock everything that's been going on?
Analysis of Sounders vs LAFC Performance
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think I feel a little bit calmer about everything than I would say probably a majority of our listeners and the readers on the site. But I also I like completely understand and then even relate to a lot of the frustration I'm seeing. You know, I think we all want like, like you started off with we wanted to see this soundest team up against the test. And
00:03:12
Speaker
Contextually speaking, there's not a bigger test that the Sounders can face right now in LAFC, especially an LAFC team that's coming off being embarrassed a week ago on their on their home field against the team that beat him in the MLS Cup finals. So Columbus crew.
00:03:29
Speaker
Uh, so yeah, you know, I, I admittedly, I was feeling like pretty positive heading into this match. And, uh, you know, that kind of went away in the first 10 minutes, uh, with that pet or 50, I guess it was probably like first 15 minutes. Yeah. With the, with the penalty. Um,
00:03:52
Speaker
And I just kind of feel like that that just sort of set the tone for the rest of the match. There was a lot of confusion and blame to go around on a penalty. And then if you look at how the Sounders played after that, there was a lot of confusion and finger pointing and sort of yelling at each other. And you just look at a passing map from the 90 minutes of the game. And it was just the Sounders team that didn't have any idea of what to do.
00:04:19
Speaker
And yeah, luck, luck is definitely part of it. Um, I'm sure we'll kind of end up talking about that, but you also make your own luck and they didn't. So yeah, I don't like everything I feel about the rest of the season, nothing changes. I think that this is a, this is a team that is capable of producing special moments. I don't think they're an elite team.
00:04:43
Speaker
I don't think they're going to go on a pace from here on out that's like support or shield level winning talent or team or anything. But I think that they're a team that can potentially produce really special moments.
00:04:59
Speaker
We've seen it happen so far this season. They've had comebacks, and they've had solid wins and whatnot. They're in a semifinal of a competition, which doesn't happen without being able to create moments. So I think ultimately, we learned a lot about what they're not, maybe. And then, yeah, I'm just kind of like, well,
00:05:25
Speaker
You gotta kind of dust yourself off and see where you are. Because a game in July hopefully doesn't define the season.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, you'd like to think that it doesn't define the season, but it is worth digging into it. I think what's really frustrating about this game is A, I think two things can be true, right? Or maybe multiple things can be true. One, that 3-0 score line, I think is unfair. I didn't think this read as a 3-0 loss to me. You know, if they had gotten one of those goals, they had a bunch of great chances at the end of the game. If one of those goes in, 3-1 feels somehow more indicative of what we actually saw.
00:06:02
Speaker
But put that aside, I think you have to look, I think either way, they were not as good as LAFC. They certainly weren't as good as LAFC in the big moments. And that's really what has defined, as you've pointed out repeatedly, what's defined this team this year is how they perform in these big moments.
00:06:22
Speaker
But I think the bigger picture is they haven't beaten LAFC in their last eight games now. And none of those, like not a lot of those eight games where the sounders dominated, but there's a pretty clear pattern at this point that LAFC just seems to know how to beat the sounders. And, you know, hopefully that changes in the open cup, but then I don't even know if that's how much that we can really take away from that, even if they do.
00:06:48
Speaker
But there's just something that LAFC is doing to the sounders and that really coincides pretty much with Steve Trundleau taking over the team that the sounders have not figured out at all.
Comparing Sounders and LAFC Roster Strategies
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't, I'm like, I'm so hesitant to say it's one thing, but really you got to kind of, I think, I think there's a lens to look through and it's what they've done with their roster since
00:07:19
Speaker
All of those games have happened. The sounders have done practically nothing. And LAFC have been incredibly resourceful and creative with their signings. Like, Carlos Vela is not on the team anymore, which is a huge deal. Obviously, Nicole Slatero is not on the team anymore with the sounders, which is also a huge deal.
00:07:42
Speaker
They don't really miss Carlos Vela at all, because they have Denny Belonga on their team, and there was a crossover in their existence. And then they've just gotten creative with their signings. The LAFC team that The Sound has played on Saturday night was missing probably four or five starters.
00:08:07
Speaker
here, there, you know, they changed up their formation and stuff. And like Kai Kamara comes off the bench for them. And the sounders could have conceivably gotten Kai Kamara as like a stopgap. Sure. But it doesn't matter. Like what's happening is LAFC is just kind of like plugging gaps here as they go, you know. Well, yeah, I was gonna say, I think a stat that sort of illustrates the difference between these two teams.
00:08:37
Speaker
pretty effectively is, you know, you go back to 2018, that's the year that LAFC came into the league.
00:08:44
Speaker
they have zero players left over from that roster build. And let's depend on how you count Edward at Tuesso who left and came back. Yeah. But they've had no players that have been with them continuously in that time. The Sounders have six players on, on their team. And I think that speaks somewhat to the philosophy differences of the Sounders and LFC. Whereas LFC is more than happy to churn through players. Whereas the Sounders are a little bit more stable. And I'm not saying that those are,
00:09:12
Speaker
one of those is correct and one of those is wrong, but it does fairly illustrate, like the sounders have been a pretty, and I think if you go back to 2022, like the beginning of this stretch of games that we're talking about where the sounders haven't beaten LAFC, I think you're going to find even starker differences. I guess I could have done the research on that, but the sounders have not changed their roster almost at all.
00:09:39
Speaker
Whereas LAFC is constantly adding pieces, letting pieces go, making tough decisions. You know, in some degree, they, you know, like, they let Chicha Arango go, they sold them for a decent amount of money. But that was, you know, maybe that was the wrong choice, maybe it was the right choice, but it's more fits into a broader, systemic way that they, they deal with their roster. And I,
00:10:05
Speaker
Like I don't, I don't think I want to see the sounders changing over quite that much, but somewhere in the middle would be, would be nice. Yeah. Like any changeover would be nice. I mean, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like, it's, it's definitely somewhere in between. It's definitely.
00:10:28
Speaker
At the very, at the very least, LAFC is proactive about their roster and the sounders aren't any active. They're not even reactive. Right. Yeah. It's yeah, they, you know, they made some moves this off season. The only real significant one was Pedro de la
Disorganization in Sounders' Gameplay
00:10:45
Speaker
Vega. He was the only.
00:10:47
Speaker
play or I guess Masovsky also played in this game. So they had two guys that they signed this offseason that at least got on the field in this game. But something else you mentioned that won't necessarily make for good radio or podcasting, but I did want to bring it up because I'm looking at it right now. You mentioned the Sounders passing map from this game. And I think it does illustrate sort of the struggles that they had pretty well. It is so narrow and bunched up. It's essentially everyone is
00:11:14
Speaker
you know, ultimate, like basically on top of each other in the center midfield. You know, the centers did a good job, I thought, of pressing, of creating a high line, of being proactive defensively. And they really dominated the pitch. Like, they dominated every part of the pitch, except for the area right in front of the LAFC goal, which is sort of how you imagine. But LAFC controlled, yet it seemed like LAFC wasn't in control of the game.
00:11:40
Speaker
Like they were able to get out of pressure when they really needed to. They were able to, you know, they only took six shots, but four of those shots were really dangerous shots. You know, one of them, Stephen Fry came up on a big save.
00:11:55
Speaker
But they just seem to play their game. The game plan just worked out just about perfectly for them. And it all stems, I think, from that early penalty where the Sounders get unbalanced. They end up creating sort of a... LAFC is able to create some chaos. And then, you know, Nuhu gets a fair amount of blame. I think he deserves a fair amount of blame. He did flop on the ball for unknown reasons. But...
00:12:23
Speaker
It's a penalty nonetheless. And that really set the, you know, I don't want
Debate on Penalty Call Against Sounders
00:12:27
Speaker
to say the game was unwinnable at that point, but it certainly put the Sounders behind the eight ball and it allowed LAFC to essentially dictate the terms of the game.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, the, the thing that it did, the thing that the penalty did was allow LFC exactly what they want was they didn't, they didn't want the ball. They wanted to kind of sit in their shell. And basically their entire thing was we've gotten this like really, really good fast guy in Denny Belonga and hopefully he can kind of do something. And.
00:13:01
Speaker
pretty much on all three goals, he was like deeply involved in that aspect. So even even with that shot that went that their second goal
00:13:14
Speaker
with the Stephen Fry thing, he was kind of involved there. But L.E.F.C. is kind of coming off a really tricky schedule, just like kind of the sounders are in a similar sense, where they've had two games a week, pretty much since the beginning of July, just like the sounders have. And last week they got beat.
00:13:36
Speaker
pretty handily at home against Columbus, which was like embarrassing, you know, their fans booed them off the field and stuff like that. And then, you know, I don't want, you know, I don't want to say anything that'll get me in trouble, but LAFC fans are.
00:13:52
Speaker
I hear you. Yeah. And then they played they played RSL
LAFC's Efficient Schedule Management
00:13:56
Speaker
in the middle of the week, got a one one draw, and then they had to travel to Seattle, which we as a kind of a sounders biased podcast would like to think it's a difficult place to travel to. And they got four points out of those three games, which
00:14:12
Speaker
they probably didn't get those points in the order that they wanted them, but they got them. And that's, that's what you do when you're a good team and you have a hard week is you just get the points. So, um, and, and they also are dealing with like international absences and injuries and stuff. So they wanted to come into this game and basically be like the kind of a classic, Oh, we'll play for a draw. Right. And the sounders
00:14:36
Speaker
effectively gifted them a two goal lead before halftime. Oh, and it's just like, Okay, cool. Great. Now you guys go figure out what you want to do. We're just going to hang out back here. Right. And that's exactly what happened. Well, I'll tell you, do you how much does this impact your confidence? No, this is a month away. Now a lot can change. But does the LFC does the open cup semi final?
00:15:06
Speaker
Does this impact your confidence of that game? And do you feel like regardless of what happens in that game, it will change anything in terms of how you feel about the Sounders ability to match up with LAFC? I don't know. I really don't know. What I definitely know is I don't want the Sounders to really put way too much into
00:15:36
Speaker
The League's Cup at this point, because at the at like right on the other side of the League's Cup is a game against Minnesota, which is now like you're you're now back. You're in the conversation of battling Minnesota for playoff position. So even though that game's on the road,
00:15:56
Speaker
and it's right before the semifinal, you have to take that really seriously. And then also LAFC is probably one of the teams that are gonna do something in League's Cup, like their group situation is fairly easy. And then they hold all the cards in the situation. And what I wanted from Saturday Night's Game was I wanted to show them
00:16:21
Speaker
something like, yeah, like a boxer going round by round. Yeah, we showed them nothing. We were just like instant knockout. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a, like I said, I don't think there's a three zero gap between us using the Sounders and LAFC, but nothing that we that the Sounders did in that game.
00:16:45
Speaker
makes LAFC second-guests themselves at all. And you're right. I think, like to me, I guess maybe this maybe transitions into our discussion about League's Cup and kind of the next month, what we want to see. But personally, I think the almost ideal situation for the Sounders is they win their group-sage games because you want to win group-sage games. Maybe you win your round of 32 game
00:17:15
Speaker
And then I'm fine. Like if you get knocked out of the round of 16, that's totally fine. Like I probably won't love it in real time, but it would give the sounders four chances to try to figure out their best 11, which I think is going to be a pretty important thing for them to start figuring out soon.
00:17:37
Speaker
in which, by the way, the LAFC gave us zero idea of what it is.
Sounders' Lineup and Fitness Concerns
00:17:44
Speaker
But they'd also get some time to rest and maybe take a little bit of R&R and come back rested and ready to go for what is gonna be a pretty busy stretch run. They have at least 10 games, maybe 11 games to play over the last couple months of the season.
00:18:05
Speaker
And it's gonna be a slog a little bit. And I think they need to put everything they can in to open cup. Yeah, I agree. I think last year is such a spooky mirror of the situation. It's a pretty foggy mirror because it's not necessarily the same. But the vibes last summer around the sounders weren't incredible.
00:18:31
Speaker
they're awful. Yeah, but but they are like if you kind of like go and compare. They were better statistically than where they're at right now, right? But they were in the middle of a bad slump. Yeah, where like I think this this team has come and come out of a slump. They go into League's Cup last year and. Would have been better to forfeit both of those games?
00:19:00
Speaker
than to do what they did in both of those games. Right. Which is insane to say because like, who cares about League's Cup, really? But they somehow managed to go into League's Cup with like the ability to like break out of a bad slump and they made it worse. The team doesn't play for three weeks and then they make it even worse with a performance against Atlanta.
00:19:29
Speaker
All of that to say is like, I want them to at least learn from what happened last year that week's cup can actually seemingly like your, your performance in, in that competition can make your vibes worse. So just don't do that. And whatever not doing that is, that's the acceptable bar I have for this competition. Um, like especially don't do.
00:19:57
Speaker
Don't go too up against Monterey and then lose 4-2. That's what happened, right? Something like that. And don't get like red cards and stuff because that's just confusing.
Critique of Sounders' Tactical Setup
00:20:10
Speaker
But do like really kind of use this as like a mid-season friendly tournament to make like make some really hard decisions. Like if everybody's healthy, should certain players be starting?
00:20:27
Speaker
And I think like you gotta start looking at, and I know Josh Atencio is not, isn't physically gonna be here, but you gotta figure out like, what's the midfield pairing behind Rusnak? What's the position of the winger? Like who's playing what winger position and who's playing fullback? You have like six positions you gotta figure out in order to figure out your best 11.
00:20:56
Speaker
And I don't know if you, I don't know if you can do that between now and let's do my final against LAFC.
00:21:05
Speaker
It's going to be complicated. Just for the sake of closing the loop on this, I looked at the Sounders position at league's cup break last year. They had played one fewer games, but they were in fourth. So they were on 36 points through 24 games with a plus six goal difference. This year they're on 37 points through 25 games with a plus five goal difference.
00:21:28
Speaker
Maybe a little better, but pretty remarkable how similar. But they're in seventh, right? But they're in seventh. Yeah, they're in seventh, but they're only, you know, they're pretty close to, well, I guess now they are, they're four points out of fourth. So, and RSL, or Carl Attero has also played an extra game, but whatever. You know what they didn't do last summer? They didn't sign anybody.
00:21:53
Speaker
They didn't. It sure would be nice if they went out and signed somebody. I will say this, the centers have scored five more goals at this point in the season than they had last year. So that's, we'll take that. Sure. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's, um, there are big questions, I think about the starting lineup and I liked, I will say this, I.
00:22:17
Speaker
appreciated the thought process that went into the starting lineup against LSE because I think it was designed around the idea of how do we get the most dynamic players on our team on the field together in a way that makes some sense.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I think it made sense to try to pair up Christian Roldan and Pedro de la Vega on the right. It didn't work. I'll be really honest. It was that was maybe the biggest disaster there was. I think it makes some sense to try to put new who and read Baker Whiting on the left hand side. And the rest of it, I think all sort of kind of decides it's like it was all the rest was basically chalk, for lack of a better term. But I
00:23:05
Speaker
I think one of the things that was exposed in this game is Christian Roldon is a dynamic player going forward, but he is not as technically and defensively sound as Alex at right back. That was pretty apparent, I thought, on the first goal where he got turned basically twice.
00:23:27
Speaker
you know,
Defensive Issues Under Pressure for Sounders
00:23:28
Speaker
ends up looking like a bit of a mess. And then he wasn't really able to get as involved as you need him to be going forward to sort of offset his defensive deficiencies. Yeah, he did. He like he got roasted as the kids say on the first goal. But that doesn't end up being a goal if like the players around Stephen Fry, who in particular just like lets the goalkeeper use his hands to pick up the ball. Yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like the initial shot was a little like funky and weird. It was the aftermath of the shot that caused the calamity that happened. Thank you for listening to the Sound Rit Heart Podcast Network, which now includes No Sonietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and The Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023.
00:24:18
Speaker
need your support to make sure it continues. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support. Memberships start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen, but also gets you access to everything we produce. If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks
00:24:41
Speaker
most notably entry into our members only discord where the smartest funniest and most engaged commenters share their thoughts and ideas to find out more just visit center at heart.com and click the subscribe button in the top right corner thanks for listening so um yeah like i i suppose i should be careful with what i say but uh
Impact of LAFC's Lineup Changes on Sounders
00:25:12
Speaker
Like, I like really kind of disagree with some of the thought processes that went into the lineup. I could have like, I'm going to sound like a smart ass, but I could have told you LAFC was going to come in with a back five. I don't think the sounders were prepared for that.
00:25:34
Speaker
quite frankly, I think they were sort of like, Oh, it's LAFC. They're, they're going to do what they always do. They're going to play their four, three, three. I could have told you that given the week that they were having, they were going to kind of completely rip up the playbook and tried. I mean, I should add here, they have only played a back five one other time this season.
00:25:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So I don't think it's I don't think it's entirely fair to say it was quite that obvious. And the other time they used it wasn't even on a short week. Okay, again, like I said, I already called myself out on this, but they seemed so unprepared for that. They did. Yeah. And even but even kind of setting that aside, I don't I don't think you should you should have
00:26:27
Speaker
I would have swapped the, I would have played, I would have played musical chairs with the three positions you just talked about. I would have put, I thought Pedro should have played on the left and Pedro de la Vega should have been the one that paired with Nuhu because you effectively absolve Nuhu of offensive responsibility, which is a really good thing to do. And you then give Pedro,
00:26:52
Speaker
De La Vega has so much freedom to go be impactful, especially because Jordan Morris wants to pull off to the left as he always does when he plays striker. So you kind of put a dynamic triangle on that side of the field between Rusnak Morris and De La Vega. And then you just kind of like, I think you play rolled on at right mid and Big Baker Whiting at right back. And that's a decent thought. You have like a very structured right side.
00:27:22
Speaker
there. All of that to say, I, of course, sound like a genius because they lost three zero and the right side is what falls apart. But that's kind of like, besides the entire point I'm trying to make it which is like, you still don't really know where all some of your best races should play. And that's like really frustrating to watch. And then is like, should
00:27:53
Speaker
Should we even be considering like Pedro de la Vega's fitness at this point? Because it's like, it looks like a problem at this point where like it, or is that just kind of, was that smetchers kind of covered be like, it's two zero at halftime. We're not winning this game. We got to yank them anyways.
00:28:11
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think it's, they are being, I think what the situation with, with Pedro's fitness, I think is relatively straight forward. Although that doesn't mean it's not concerning. I think they are so worried about what happened during the first few months of the season where he got hurt and then got hurt and they got hurt and they got hurt.
00:28:36
Speaker
that they are being they're practicing an extreme level of caution in terms of allowing him to exert himself and i this is what i said at halftime i thought he was going to get pulled because the game was being played at a much more dynamic pace than i think they had like he had you know in a perfect world he would have played probably 60 65 minutes but i think he had
00:29:02
Speaker
done enough exertion. He had covered enough ground that they, I could just tell by watching it, that they weren't going to let him come out in the second half because he probably only had five or 10 minutes left him. And at that point it's like, what's why bother risking it. And so it's a concern, I think to the degree that man, you would like your young designated player to be able to play 90 minutes at this point. But, you know, I would think, you know, ideal world healed. That's where he'll be when they come out of league's cup.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think my, I think my point wasn't necessarily like so much squared on his shoulders and like his fitness, which I know a lot of people want to talk about, like, Oh, he spent all this money on this guy. How can we can play it? Like given the context.
00:29:47
Speaker
which this exists in, like it makes sense, but it's the options that you have to go to if he can't play. Right. And that's the main thing where I'm like, how have we like not done something around here? Like Paul, Paul Rothrock is an exciting player and it's like maybe one of the only bright spots this season, but like,
00:30:10
Speaker
really, or is that who we want to be relying on in these moments? And Leo, too, doesn't even like play. He doesn't play in this game. He literally didn't play. And they and they didn't even use all their subs. So it's it's like they use they did use all their subs. They I thought they only use four subs. Well, I don't want to I don't want to trip you up. I will. I will fact check this, but OK, sorry. Maybe they used all their windows. I'm not sure, but
00:30:41
Speaker
It's it's like it's this like broader thing where like we have we have these we end up having these conversations about all these players this season. Alex Rodin, Jal Paulo's partner and now maybe we're actually going to have a conversation about Jal Paulo as like a community. I don't know. We're having these conversations about
00:31:02
Speaker
Pedro de la Vega's injury, Raul Rui-Diaz, Nuhu, whatever. But it's like the alternatives on this roster just aren't providing much confidence to kind of shield some of these players from the criticisms they're getting. So that's the problem. By the way, you were 100% right. Not only did they leave a sub, but they actually had a sub window. So Leochu's...
00:31:30
Speaker
non, not being used is even more glaring, I suppose, than it would otherwise be. But yeah, I mean, it was, you know, and I guess, I guess if I'm into daily, they looked okay, I thought in the second half, like overall, I think the second half they were playing at their pace, I think that the game opened up a little bit, especially in the first 20 minutes of the second half, and it did look like there was a chance for them to get back into the game, which, frankly,
00:32:00
Speaker
came around the same time that the Paul Rothrock penalty or non penalty happened. I just watched Andrew Webe's take on this on on instant replay. And I think I basically agree with it, which is there was contact. And I actually had a chance to ask Alan Chapman that exact question. I basically said there was contact. Why was there no penalty? And he said he didn't think there was enough contact and he embellished the foul.
00:32:28
Speaker
Personally, what frustrates me about that situation is not that it would have changed the result, although who knows what happens if they get that penalty and they convert into one with 30 minutes left or whatever. But what frustrates me more is that we have seen that called in a Sounders game on VAR when that was the almost the exact same play that Albert Rusnak got a penalty for against Montreal.
Inconsistent Penalty Calls and Referee Decisions
00:32:51
Speaker
which I think everyone agreed was a stone cold penalty. I don't really see how a defender is allowed to kick a attacking player, completely miss the ball and then not have to face a penalty for it. I don't quite get that. I don't understand why that the VAR didn't check it. If I'm VAR, I flag it immediately. I say, you should do this.
00:33:13
Speaker
This should be reviewed for a penalty. And at that point, if Alan Chapman really wants to stick it, you know, if he wants to stick by his, uh, that's not a, that's not enough contact for a penalty. That's. He has that option, but at the very least he needs to resend that yellow card because. Yeah, I think that's ridiculous. I think he got.
00:33:35
Speaker
completely biffed that moment. Personally, I think it's penalty should be awarded. But to like, set the precedent in that situation that we have to prove he doesn't dive, which is like an insane thing, and then also prove that the defender had, you know, committed enough contact for a foul. I think from the VIS perspective, it's like, well, I
00:34:04
Speaker
he's like really staunchly dug in, dug himself in all the way over here. It's kind of one of those situations where I feel like if after the game, those two guys talk to each other, it's gonna be like, ooh, yeah, that's probably a mistake. And who knows, maybe Pro will actually admit something like that. But I think it's because Chapman was so convinced right away that it was embellishment that to walk all that back
00:34:33
Speaker
is, is hard for them to do. Not actually, but yeah, from a practice from a front. Yeah. Yeah, ego management perspective. I see what you're saying. And then yeah, and then that like, like it would throw it would like throw Alan Chapman's brain for a loop, which maybe that should happen. But he thought he saw something he made a decision.
00:35:00
Speaker
hopefully the VAR tried to convince him otherwise, but I don't know. I just feel like if he's not so convinced that Rothrock dove, then we're having a different conversation. And I also think we're having a different conversation if the sounders had a better head on their shoulders the entire game, especially around that first penalty.
00:35:24
Speaker
I think Alan Chapman's referring a context that he thinks one of the teams is like insane. He was referring that game thinking that the Sounders have lost their head and I have to pay attention to that. Yeah, you know, that's an interesting piece of context there because I think there was A, the penalty that he called, which I think in real time to me, looks like a stone cold penalty. And so that there's arguments, I mean, there's always going to be arguments, but I think
00:35:55
Speaker
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure why it was reviewed. I am actually genuinely curious to see what the inside video review, which is Pro's video, which usually talks about plays that were reviewed. So this play will hopefully be talked about in that video. I'm still confused as to why VAR recommended a review there. I don't know if it was because it was potentially a red card, which I would have frankly not liked, but
00:36:25
Speaker
probably could have understood or if they were saying he didn't touch it, which I think is wrong. He very clearly touched it with his hand or be like the other possibility is that maybe they thought that knew who was knocked over. And so maybe that would have absolved that, you know, that would have absolved the penalty. I meant originally I had a question that I was had submitted to ask about that, but I thought better of it because it was ultimately immaterial. I thought,
00:36:53
Speaker
because I thought ultimately the right choice was made. But that's context for the Sounders then tried to get a, like they were doing the whole like raising, they really seemed dead set on trying to get a penalty. There was a couple of plays in the first half where there were close calls on handballs, one of which did hit Chinou's hand, which is kind of funny. Yeah.
00:37:17
Speaker
I think it was a fairly waved off, but there was one instance where it did hit his hand, but there was a couple other instances like that. And then weirdly, I think should know winning that tackle on Morris also influences Chapman's willingness to call the next penalty. Yeah. Cause he's not like Rothrock's not an unnecessarily dangerous area. It's not like.
00:37:42
Speaker
he can, from that position, like maybe he gets a cross off. And I, I'm having a really hard time remembering what's happening anywhere else. So I don't even think there's a, I don't even think there's a runner to get the ball to cause Morris had been just been tackled. So maybe he, like the only thing that Rothrock can do there is win a penalty. I think he does, but maybe Chapman's like,
00:38:13
Speaker
like sick of these guys. I do actually think that is, I do think there is an element of that, that he was sort of like, Hey guys, I'm not bailing you out of this one. Yeah. And like, and
00:38:32
Speaker
It is not helpful to talk about it in these scenarios, but if it's like one-one, maybe he thinks differently. But I definitely think from the context of the match, the Sounders were incredibly whiny up until that point. Maybe you are a person that thinks that's coming from a place of injustice and they deserve to be whiny, and maybe you just hate all referees.
00:38:57
Speaker
I can kind of understand, I guess I'm just ultimately not that bothered that that wasn't called a penalty. I just kind of really wish the yellow card for embellishment wasn't part of the conversation because that just feels very like, come on, man. Right. Yeah, that definitely felt like a little insult to injury type of situation.
00:39:19
Speaker
But, uh, you know, I guess that, that sort of does, you know, the other, the other thing that you, you mentioned as an open question that I think was fairly. That that's, that I think is fair to wonder about, especially after this game is gel palos place in the starting lineup. And when, you know, up until, you know, what's funny is like, I had been basically working on a story that was talking about how he's had this resurgence. I'm glad I hadn't written it yet. Cause I think it definitely has a different angle now.
00:39:49
Speaker
But he had been so good for like the last six weeks. Yeah. He looked like his old self, but then he was basically invisible in this game. And he sort of reminded us of how he looked at the beginning of the season when he was really struggling for fitness. And he was just generally not the player that he w we're used to. And I think that's the problem right now with Joe Paulo is that he is capable of
00:40:17
Speaker
of being his old self, but he's not reliably capable of being his old self. You never know when he's going to be that player. And you kind of need to manage. You ideally would want to manage that situation so that you could decide like.
00:40:36
Speaker
We need you to be your old self against LAFC. You don't need to be your old self in the three games before that. St. Louis. Yeah. Well, he came off. But, but yeah, but like.
00:40:49
Speaker
he was like great against Austin, I thought. So it's like, do you really need Jau Paulo to be great against, to win 1-0 against Austin FC? Probably, well, ideally no, but this particular team does need that. So it's just kind of like,
00:41:08
Speaker
These are almost the same exact conversations we had about the end of Ozzy's time here. Very similar. Completely different types of players. They wear the same number though. Similar, vaguely similar roles too. Same position. They play it differently. They wear the same number. They will go down in history as Sounders Legends. All of that's the same. But it's kind of like
00:41:37
Speaker
we had Gustav Svensson when Ozzy's decline was happening. So it's kind of like, that was managed way better. There's just nothing there in mid, like Danny Wabla.
Sounders' Midfield Partnership Challenges
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think they have, you know, I think both Josh and, and
00:41:57
Speaker
Obed are very good partners for JP. They have not yet shown that they're great partners for each other. And that's worrisome. That is worrisome that there's a problem there. I suppose maybe Christian Roldan could fit in there. But he is another player who I think is, you know, I think you could you could argue that Leyva Rusnak Roldan
00:42:20
Speaker
Vargas and attention are all perfectly capable to very good central midfielders, but none of them are really sixes. And they all sort of need someone else to be the six to be their best. And, uh, and so I, I, I almost wonder if the sounder's biggest priority, whether it be now or in the off season might be going out and getting a six. I would love to bring JP back as long as you could bring them back sort of as a.
00:42:50
Speaker
You know, a part-time player and you're not paying them to be a, a, a, an automatic starter, but
00:42:57
Speaker
Uh, that does lead into the next big question, which is over the next month, in addition to the league's cup, this is the only, this is the center's last real chance to add any talent.
Sounders' Transfer Window Strategy
00:43:08
Speaker
I have reported on this quite a bit, but all indications that I've gotten is that they aren't going to make a big signing. They might make a notable signing, but they're not going to sign a DP level player. They would, to do that, they would probably have to buy out Raul Rui Diaz. There's no indication that I've gotten that they're thinking about doing that.
00:43:27
Speaker
They tried to sign this guy from Croatia that fell through because he wanted too much money and they didn't have the caps, the cap space to get him under the cap. But that sort of left them.
00:43:44
Speaker
trying to figure out what they're going to do. What do you, like, are you, I guess what's philosophically, where do you fall? I want them to sign someone because I feel like they just can't sit out a third straight summer transfer window. And there is like an optical element to that. And they need to find someone that is worth signing. I just, I just don't, I feel like they, they have to start with, we need to sign someone and then the chips fall where they fall.
00:44:13
Speaker
but I don't know necessarily which position they most need. Where do you fall on that? Would you be okay with them sending this out if they really feel like they can't improve the top end of the roster? No, I wouldn't be okay with that because I think you can improve the
00:44:29
Speaker
the middle tier of the roster with the available kind of budget they have. And ideally they would be doing that at some point anyways. So you kind of, you're getting a lot of answers about players who are not going to be playing on your team next year. Maybe Leochu, hopefully, like maybe something's happening there. So there's two positions where it's like,
00:44:57
Speaker
the guy that we're going to be using in this role, not as now don't necessarily think about like Raul Rui Diaz DP number nine. It's
00:45:07
Speaker
back-up striker is the role that Raul Rudy Diaz is playing, which is a waste of resource, but, hey, it's where we're at. So it's like, okay, we've gotten an answer about Jordan Morris. Playing him in his best position is really good, and we should probably, if we're gonna have Jordan Morris on the roster, plan to have him in this position. So we need a sort of like a dynamic
00:45:35
Speaker
option behind him so maybe go find that or you have you have kind of like beneath your starting wingers outside of Reed Baker Whiting you have
00:45:48
Speaker
not a whole lot to work with there. So maybe you target like a Tam Victor Rodriguez type player that can start in certain games or come off the bench and do there. Or you also can, like you said, target the midfield. Like number sixes aren't that expensive in this league, comparative to other places in the roster. So maybe you'd go and find that like,
00:46:15
Speaker
that Gustav Svensson, again. Maybe not literally him, because he's probably not very good anymore. But you have so many options, and you're at a point where you're putting together a new puzzle, you got to start somewhere. You have to. And you can start in a certain quadrant if you want to, if those are the pieces that are in front of you.
00:46:44
Speaker
And I'm a little like I'm hesitant to be annoyed at this point because I don't know what the end result is going to be. Yeah. But you look at other teams around them in the Western Conference, they had a signing or multiple signings done before the window opened.
00:47:01
Speaker
or at least we're ready to announce as soon as the window open yeah and like austin fc's perfect example they had like two guys that they debuted before the game that the sounders played there that was like a week before the window opened right so it's like and i i don't i don't know anything about those guys they might be the worst players in mls history i don't know but it was still kind of the like
00:47:21
Speaker
The thought that counts, I guess. So maybe they're holding out for somebody towards the end of this window. But if you kind of look what's going on, European teams are already starting their training camps. They're starting their preseason tours. Their rosters are getting pretty much set.
00:47:41
Speaker
Further down the list, you've got teams already playing in European qualifiers, like the Europa League and in Conference League. And so the level of player that they can get at the budget that they're at from those types of teams, it's going to be harder and harder because they're already planning for their season. And it seems like it would have been easier to do this two months ago.
00:48:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I know that there's some issues about figuring out their budget and what they're willing to spend out of pocket. And I think that's creating some of the problems, but I agree with you. It feels like they should have had something lined up and ready to go. I don't know exactly why that wasn't the case. I would imagine it's not for lack of effort.
Roster Enhancement Challenges for Sounders
00:48:28
Speaker
But you're right. I think that once you're, you're getting to the point now where if you're signing someone from Europe, you're talking about someone who has very few options and that's not exactly the kind of player you expect to be a difference maker in MLS in 2024. I do. I agree with you that a Victor Rodriguez hype is probably the ceiling of what they can try to do. And that would be, I would love, I mean, that's sort of what I was hoping Dario, Dario Spicich was going to be, which was sort of a,
00:48:58
Speaker
you know, a player who isn't maybe an automatic starter, but is someone who you are going to consider starting in a big game. And, you know, that's, I don't, I don't know how likely that is to happen at this point. I I'm holding out hope. I don't want to be too harsh until we see what actually happens, but it is immensely, immensely frustrating to be looking at a transfer window.
00:49:25
Speaker
that might close without the sounders making any real move. And we know they have some salary cap flexibility. I don't necessarily want to call it salary cap space because I'm sure on paper they can fill up all their space, but they have the ability to sign someone. And it would be really frustrating for them not to do it. I know that they're probably looking at trades within MLS. We'll see. Yeah.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we've, I think, like, a month and a half ago, we had this conversation. Maybe even the last time I was on but right. It was it's just kind of like,
00:50:07
Speaker
it's not clear what plan A is. So you have no idea what the fallback plans are. And I know that they're very protective about kind of the perception of what's going on in terms of like transfers. So they're not necessarily going to be like some other teams in MLS that put out the targets that they want through Tom Boger and then like fall through and their fans get mad about that.
00:50:36
Speaker
Well, maybe maybe that's a thing that should be revisited because like, right? We got it. We don't know what's going on. And it's the unease of like, well, yes, I agree. Like, we you're like, they are putting out information that they are active. But it's been so long. We don't know what that means. And is that just like,
00:51:02
Speaker
Uh, I'm going to kind of go out in left field here and say, like, here's, here's my base level of acceptable move for where they're at right now. And that's trading for Jeremy above.
00:51:14
Speaker
I think that's something that they could do. And that's my level of acceptable for this window. And if you were to ask me if that's something I think the sounders will do, I don't think they will. And that's frustrating to me.
00:51:35
Speaker
I think you would file him under sort of distressed asset right now, a player who once was pretty good, who has some upside, uh, but who has not been very, who's sort of snakebit this year, you know,
00:51:47
Speaker
I think the pessimists could argue, well, you're just getting a, you're slightly upgrading over Danny Misofsky at this point. But, you know, I do think it would at least show some intent to be getting better. And I, as a baseline of acceptability, I could talk myself into that one. It is something. He can play three positions that you need him to play. Maybe not super well, but he's better than Danny Misofsky.
00:52:16
Speaker
He also can kind of change some dynamics of relationships with other players, which I think is really important because I think you could play him with Raul Rui Dias and it'd be more interesting than any combination of player that Raul Rui Dias can play with currently.
00:52:32
Speaker
And yeah, he's on maybe the worst team in MLS history. And he used to play for Portland, so I think it'd be kind of fun if he scored against them for us. Yeah, there you go. That's good. Well, I think we've exhausted what I had to talk about.
00:52:51
Speaker
I am sort of looking forward to League's Cup only in the sense that it gives me a little bit of a mental break. Like, I don't feel like I am as emotionally invested in the Sounders' performance in these two games. Of course, I said that about the last League's Cup, and then I ended up getting really frustrated about how that went. So, you know, it's all relative. But, Mark, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. At some point, we're gonna have Aaron back on, but, you know,
00:53:21
Speaker
In the meantime, I'll have what you take. We'll take you. In the meantime, you just get exhausted by talking to me, which is what you just said. I don't think I said that. No, I'm just teasing you. I got it. I got it. Well, thank you so much. I will say we're closing in on our one-year anniversary for Senator Hart.
00:53:47
Speaker
And I just wanted to remind everyone that's listening to this that if you haven't checked up on your subscription status, now is a good time to do that. Also make sure that you have a good credit card in the system so that if you want to renew automatically, it will actually go through.
00:54:08
Speaker
And yeah, we've the first year has been amazing on zone at heart. We had over 5000 members, about half of those members are paying members. It's been really successful. We've been able to produce a lot of great content. And I hope everyone is as thrilled about it as I am. And they want to continue to support this because without your support,
00:54:30
Speaker
We don't work. So I just wanted to put that out there into the world and say both thank you and ask you humbly to resubscribe as well.
Closing Remarks and Call for Support
00:54:44
Speaker
But with all that said, I wanted to thank our sponsor, Deadpool Wines, as well as our producer, Lickit. Of course, Mark Kastner. I am Jeremiah Shan. This is No Sadietis. Remember, you'll never get alone.
00:55:56
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!