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We’re all-in on Leagues Cup … for now
97 Plays3 months ago
Are the Sounders making us fall in love with Leagues Cup? No, not quite, but they have at least made us emotionally invested in this run they're on. The win over Pumas was a ton of fun and that comes on the heels of a solid performance against the Galaxy. Jeremiah and Aaron discuss the match while also expressing their frustration with the summer transfer window and the season-ticket fiasco.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Highlights
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network.
00:00:11
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Fullpool Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Fullpool was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Sounders' Recent Achievements
00:00:36
Speaker
Let's go! A save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup winners! They've come three years through the middle to crown it for Seattle! And now they truly can't start the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Michael Adero leads out to the Reno Dump! The Sounders win!
00:01:36
Speaker
This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome. This is an awesome.
00:01:42
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of NOS Adiatus, sponsored by Full Pull Wines and the subscribers on Sun Red Heart. We're recording on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. I am joined by my co-host, Aaron Campo, as well as our engineer, Likit. All right, let's see if I remember how to do this.
00:02:01
Speaker
The Sounders are through to the league's cup quarterfinals, which I guess is good. They're coming off a resounding 4-0 win over Pumas, UNIM, our good friends from Liguea and Meckes. They did it behind two goals from Jordan Morris, a goal from Intuassist from Albert Rusnak, and another goal from Paul Rothrock.
00:02:18
Speaker
It was a really fun game and for their efforts, they get to play LAFC again on Saturday. By the time you listen to this, the summer transfer window will be just about closing and the deadline to renew your season tickets will be quickly approaching. So, you know, just another normal one here in Sounders World.
00:02:35
Speaker
Aaron, let's start by talking about the Kupumas game first though. What did you make of that? What do you make of League's Cup so far? If I remember correctly, the last time you recorded without me and Mark, was the loss to Nacoxa? Yes, that is correct. Okay. Yeah. League's Cup, I think, I'll just get it out of the way. I still think it's a silly competition. I'd rather it not be happening.
00:03:04
Speaker
on the record with that, we're in the competition, and it's been a lot of fun, generally. The Galaxy game was great. The Pumas game was obviously great. The Minnesota game was pretty entertaining. The Coxie game, not as much, but it's been- Three out of four ain't bad. Yeah, three out of four ain't bad. And I think, too, in hindsight, we've seen the Galaxy performance. We've seen the Pumas performance.
00:03:30
Speaker
I feel comfortable saying that Noxoxa was a bad matchup, who got a couple of goals at really opportune times.
Team Performance and Strategy
00:03:39
Speaker
And we're just set up in a way that it was going to be really hard to come back from that. That's a flaw that the Sounders have that I think we're all aware of, right? They can have some trouble breaking down teams that are dug in. That's a flaw most teams have. It wasn't their night. The loss did not feel as disastrous, I think in hindsight, as it did maybe at the time.
00:04:01
Speaker
And I think if the only thing that comes out of this competition is the Sounders have a better sense of their identity, which it really seems like they do, they are playing in a way that I think shows that they have a cohesive idea of what they want to do. They have the ability to carry out that strategy and they have the horses to do it. And I think that that's really all you can hope for from a team is saying like, hey, this is who we are.
00:04:27
Speaker
We know what we need to do and we're capable of doing it. And they've done a great job of that. Uh, Jordan Morris looks fantastic. Obed Vargas has looked fantastic. Albert Rusnak is, I think, everything we have wanted to see from him as a DP. Uh, and I, and I will give you all the credit in the world for pointing out the last time we recorded a little over a month ago.
00:04:46
Speaker
when I was kind of more down on Rusnak, that, hey, when he plays as a 10, he's been really, really good historically for the Sounders. And I think that that is really showing itself to be true. So there's just a lot to like, you know, over these last two games especially. And if they can carry that back into the regular season, into the Open Cup semi-final,
00:05:09
Speaker
It's worth it, right? The tournament's worth it. If it can help them turn things around fully and get some confidence back and hit the stretch run running, then hey, who am I to criticize the League Cup?
Challenges and Competition
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah, the challenge is that this is sort of the point of the tournament where it gets a little tricky. Like I think up till now, this has gone about, maybe not perfectly, but I think the Sounders have gotten out of this tournament what they set out to get, which was to sort of settle on a lineup. They started the same lineup the last two games. There is some intrigue now about Andrew Thomas versus Stephen Fry, but we'll put that aside maybe for a later discussion.
00:05:51
Speaker
But it does look like they've settled on a on a outfield 10 where Jordan Morris is at the nine. Paul Rothrock is on the left. Christian Roldon is on the right. Rusnak in the middle. Jau Paulo, Obed Vargas, Alex Roldon, and Nuhu as the full backs and of course Yemar and Reagan as the center backs.
00:06:12
Speaker
Like that feels like a, for now, at least until Pedro de la Vega is fully fit and ready to go. That's the lineup they use the last two games. It feels like it's probably their best lineup, at least for now. I don't even know if what they do, like if they continue to play like this, Pedro de la Vega might just be a super sub at this point because Paul Rothrock is playing like a starter. He's doing everything you would want a starter to do, especially recently.
00:06:41
Speaker
But we moved down into a trickier part of the tournament. And by that I mean, so the Sounders are playing LAFC, which is a tough matchup. But if they beat them, chances are they're going to have to play Club America in LA. That's going to be a tough one.
00:06:59
Speaker
If they lose, if they beat LAFC and lose to Club America, now we're into sort of like worst case scenario territory because they would have to play the third place game. And frankly, I don't think if I'm the sounders, I want no part of the third place game.
00:07:17
Speaker
There is almost literally no upside to playing in the third place game. You have to move, you probably have to move the game against Minnesota United. So that's going to, the only open day you have is out in October, the second to last week of the season. That's kind of annoying. But then you're also creating fixture, like undo fixture congestion for the open cup semifinal where you have to play LAFC again.
00:07:41
Speaker
it gets tricky that's I mean of course I want to beat LAFC in this game because I think it would be important for the center psyche to win this game but it does feel like there's potential for a real pyrok victory in this one yeah it's I think that
00:07:58
Speaker
the right thing to do if you find yourself playing in a third place game is to play a first round of the open cup kind of lineup. Obviously, you know, you can't, you can't. Unironically, I totally agree. I don't even think that's a, I think that's 100%. No, I'm dead serious. I think there's a limit to whether or not you can, you know, you can't call guys in for it the way you can with early open cup
Tournament Priorities
00:08:19
Speaker
games, but as close to that lineup as you can get that, that's the lineup out there.
00:08:24
Speaker
Uh, and you know, I think if you do that, you can avoid some of the, the negative effects of that's a good fixture congestion. However, I don't know if branch Messer has that in him to do honestly, like, and that's not a criticism, right? That's not a criticism of Brian Schmetzer because he's, he's, he's the head coach, right? And to some degree it is his responsibility to balance priorities and stuff like that. But.
00:08:47
Speaker
I just think, you know, you're in this tournament, right? There is a Champions Cup spot on the line, which it's a harder sell, I think, to a coach that this competition isn't really worth fighting for this year with everything else we've got going on. It's just a level of pragmatism that I wouldn't blame him for not having, I guess is the point I'm making. But the Open Cup, man, it's...
00:09:13
Speaker
Like we're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but I will say that if I was to make the argument for your lineup, what I would tell Brian is, look, even if you lose, like if you lose this third place game.
00:09:27
Speaker
obviously you miss out on that champions cup spot but you still have a chance to make champions cup by winning the open cup you have a good chance like you're playing LFC at starfire if you win that game you are probably gonna there's a good chance you're gonna host the open cup final
00:09:44
Speaker
hosting the Open Cup final to me is itself a huge prize that is worth sacrificing a Champions Cup spot. Because next year, Champions Cup is barely something I want a part of, frankly, because the Club World Cup is going to take up so much time and energy. The Champions Cup next year has a real
00:10:08
Speaker
possibility of being a genuine distraction and a problem for a team like the Sounders who are already playing in the Club World Cup. We're clearly getting our head of ourselves here, but I don't know. Let's talk. Let's let's let's rewind this, though. Talk a little bit about more about what we liked from these Pumas and Galaxy games. I was speaking of they may have settled on a lineup. Yeah. Just feel like the lineup that you are OK with moving forward, at least for the time being.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's impossible to change it. I mean, I think that Stephen Fry is going to get his spot back when we move back into league play. I've liked Andrew Thomas a lot. I think he's done some really good things. He hasn't done anything that makes me think that he is not the keeper of the future. I think he's really shown himself to have the goods. He also hasn't done anything to make me think that he should be taking Stephen Fry's starting spot. I think that with a guy like Stephen Fry,
00:11:08
Speaker
The drop-off has to be a lot more than it's been, I guess I would say. That's just not a call I think Brian Schmetzer is going to or should be making. I was surprised that he started the Kuma's game though.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of was too, but I'm of the mind, and I know Brian Schmetzer said he wanted to get Fry a game in this competition, I believe. I'm kind of of the mind that if you give a cup competition to a keeper, that's his competition, right? That's my position on it. But, you know, the League's Cup is kind of a different thing, I suppose. But I, you know,
Key Players and Team Spirit
00:11:44
Speaker
if you had told me six weeks ago
00:11:48
Speaker
Are you happy with this lineup? Is this the lineup you'd be putting out there? I would have said no. And if you had told me six weeks ago, Pedro de la Vega is not going to be available, I still would have said no. I don't think this is a lineup, but it's impossible for me to criticize it at this point. I just, I don't see any better option anywhere on the field. Rothrock is...
00:12:13
Speaker
It's impossible for me to hand wave away what he's done. I mean, he's producing. He seems to be exactly the kind of player the Sounders needed to make the style of play work that they want to be playing. He makes stuff happen. He's growing into the game. He's showing off skills that I didn't think he had in him because he's gaining in confidence.
00:12:34
Speaker
He's, in the best possible way, a little bit of a dick. And I think that that's something the Sounders have kind of missed at times this year. Um, no better sign, you know, no better example of that than, than in the Pumas game where he was the first guy into every Frakas and he's not, he's not a big guy. Like, and some of the guys on that Pumas team are very big guys and he was not afraid of them. He was getting in their faces. It was clearly rattling them.
00:12:57
Speaker
And I think that attitude, that chip on the shoulder is an important thing for a team to have. And I think that's rubbing off on his teammates to some degree. We've talked about the mental fragility that this team has at times. And I think that standing up for themselves, not being afraid to mix it up,
00:13:14
Speaker
is helping their confidence quite a bit. And I think that a big part of that is just the way Rothrock plays the game. He's helped bring that into the team. Yeah, so I think he's absolutely earned his starting spot. I think if Pedro de la Vega is back and available, I don't think there's any rush to get him back into the starting lineup at this point, you know? Not when we find the way he is. Yeah, I mean, clearly, I think Pedro de la Vega is a better, more talented player than Paul Rothrock. And that's I don't think that that's
00:13:43
Speaker
unfair to Paul Rothrock to say, but I think you can figure out how to, with a guy who has had the kind of injury struggles he's had, you can figure out, okay, how are we going to have this team look with Pedro still getting Rothrock integrated, all that stuff, either when Paul Rothrock stops producing or in the off season, right? You can have those conversations then. For now, I'm just not really in any hurry. I think that
00:14:09
Speaker
what he's doing is working and it's helping the sounders in a lot of ways that I wouldn't have predicted, frankly, before this run. No, I mean, if you had told me that Paul Rothrock was starting games for the sounders in August.
00:14:24
Speaker
I like, if you'd told me that at the beginning of the season, I'd say that sellers are in deep, deep trouble. I think I've probably used that line before, but it's, it's remarkable the degree to which he has sort of taken this opportunity and grabbed it with both hands. He's got five goals across all competitions. And yet that feels like it's understating his contributions. Like he, he just brings this energy. You know, he, he, uh, he had a quote last,
00:14:52
Speaker
last night about how I've been reading all this stuff about how I'm not the newest technically proficient player and I hear I see you guys saying this stuff and you know he had another nutmeg of an opponent that's like that he's done that twice now in League's Cup where he just sort of like
00:15:09
Speaker
uh you know he's he doesn't have the best first touch but i do think there's an there is sort of like he's not the fastest or the strongest player but i do think he's technically fine yeah and he's but he does so much else that he's just tenacious and he's you know willing to just throw his body out there he he doesn't make big mistakes i think that's the other thing you know uh he you know he doesn't always make the perfect
00:15:38
Speaker
pass, but he usually makes the right run. Right. He makes the right read. He makes the right ideas are good. Yeah. He doesn't do anything at a level that's not acceptable for starting while you're in MLS. He does everything. Everything about his skillset is
00:15:59
Speaker
At least like at an acceptable level. Yeah. There's nothing he does that jumps off the page as being elite, like an elite skill until you watch him for enough games. And until it's all this little stuff, it's like, I'm not saying he's Chris Wanda. But it's the, it's the, oh, your movement is incredible with Wanda. Right. We're like.
00:16:23
Speaker
It's just stuff you have to see repeated to say like, Oh, he's doing this stuff on purpose. Like these are intentional decisions. He is influencing the game in a specific way. Um, and this is part of his skillset that it's just not the kind of stuff you notice, um, watching a guy for 30 minutes when he gets his parents or whatever. But when you watch them six, seven games, like, no, these are actually elite skills and that's why he's producing. They're just not the things that jump off the page at you necessarily.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah and sort of something you alluded to that I really liked from this game and that Paul was certainly part of was the you know we've seen like I don't want to I don't want to make it sound like the sounders have been
00:17:06
Speaker
pushovers for the last few months because they haven't been they've been pretty they've been a good team. They're like 14, four and five. Over the last 23 games across all competitions, even if you cut out the open cup games, they're still on a 2.0 points per game pace. They're still scoring like 1.7 goals per game. But you go back just to more recently, they're nine, two and one in their last
00:17:33
Speaker
well across all competitions. And they're scoring a ton in that time. So it's not like they've been bad. But what they haven't shown, I don't think is the kind of
00:17:47
Speaker
togetherness for lack of a better current that they showed against Pumas where every time something happened to one of their teammates, there was someone else that was jumping in and ready to kind of have their back. I thought the game really turned around when Christian Roldan got fouled. And then when he was on the ground, one of the Pumas players kicked the ball sort of at his chest.
00:18:09
Speaker
Rolled on pops up and is jawing at him ends up being a double yellow card and the Puma's player kind of comes away like smirking like I just baited him into a yellow card and a lot of times I feel like oh maybe up until this game
00:18:25
Speaker
that would have been a point where the game started to unravel where the sounders sort of like lost their heads and or they got in their own heads or whatever else. But instead three minutes later, they score the goal. And then from that point forward, it was pretty much one way traffic. They had the better play over the last 60 odd 60 minutes or so. And I thought it was that play that really turned it around.
00:18:50
Speaker
I absolutely love their reaction to when Jordan Morris got on that. It wasn't actually just the way they reacted to Jordan Morris' the foul on Jordan Morris at the end of the game. It was that they were even looking to score on that play. They were already up 3-0. And what's Christian Roldon look to do? He looks to play Jordan Morris in. That's what we need from this team.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, they wanted to inflict punishment on premise. Exactly. And that is that killer instinct, man. It's what separates, I think, the version of the sounders that was playing decently well, they'd kind of gotten things back on track at home.
00:19:31
Speaker
were, you know, tough to beat who were like, okay, this is like the upside version of this team. Yeah, that was the thing that was missing from that, that version of the team. And, you know, I think that if they can find that killer instinct, if they can maintain that level of intensity, I think that they're set up to make quite a bit of noise down the stretch.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, and there was a point in this season not so long ago where they would have got that Rothrock goal and sort of tried to just control the game, manage the game for the rest of the way. To their credit, they didn't do that. Now, I will say the caveat to all this is I think their last seven goals, so all seven goals against both Pumas and Galaxy have come off either throw-ins, free kicks, corner kicks, or penalties. Not all directly, but sort of like
00:20:25
Speaker
vaguely of the set piece variety. Right. I don't know if that's really if you can be that dangerous from those plays, that's not a problem. Yeah. And they are creating danger and I will like they are creating dangerous opportunities from open play. So it's like, it might be more of a quirk than a, a real, a real thing. But
00:20:47
Speaker
I suppose if you're inclined to be worried about these kinds of things, there's something to be said, I suppose, about that. But it's not like they're just lobbing crosses into the box and scoring headers. They're scoring in a variety of ways. I loved the way that Jordan Morris played throughout this whole game. I love the way Albert Rusnak was playing. Obed Vargas had some great moments. I loved the penalty that he drew.
00:21:14
Speaker
was in a that also actually came off a set piece. Yeah. There was just I don't think I had any negative notes, frankly, about the way the centers played in the game. It was it was it was the most encouraging game that they've played this year, I think.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, even I mean more than the more than the Montreal game, I think, because that game kind of felt like a fluke, even if I'm like, felt nice, but it didn't feel repeatable. And I don't think the Sounders are gonna be every opponent for nil, obviously. But there's something about this performance and the performance about the galaxy that does feel
00:21:49
Speaker
repeatable and feels like something that they can keep up. And I think, yeah, they're scoring off of set pieces when they've historically not been a great set piece team. But I think that the way they are attacking the game, they're being very aggressive in the attacking third when they don't have the ball, they're pressing much harder.
Tactics and Playing Style
00:22:11
Speaker
I mean, they're playing like a counter pressing team now. And when you play like that,
00:22:16
Speaker
you can create chaos from those set piece situations. Right. I think I think Morris is run a play goal, which is I think maybe one of the best goals he's ever scored, frankly. It was a great goal. Incredible, incredible goal. And just the presence of mind, the Rothrock keeping his man on keeping his man helping keep Jordan onside because because he had, you know, his man pinned back was also a smart play.
00:22:42
Speaker
But that's the kind of goal that you score when you play the way the sounders have been playing, right? Because you're not dropping back and saying, well, we don't want to get beat on the counter here. You're taking the game to the opposition and you're creating chaos and then attacking third and good things happen when you do that. And it's why I love that style of play so much, right? It's just, it's exciting and unpredictable and you can get a lot of goals that way. It's nice.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, well, let's turn ahead to LFC on Saturday. It looks like it just came out that the game is supposed to kick off at five o'clock on Saturday. Hey, I guess different is good, right? Yeah, I suppose. I think I don't know. I don't know. I'm curious what the thinking is behind that. I guess probably because America probably has the late the late game. Who are they playing? They're playing the rapids. They're playing the rapids. OK.
00:23:35
Speaker
one of the funnier matchups in in world history, I would say. Yeah, that's that's that is that is a funny one. But yeah, so that that game is at five o'clock. LFC is just just destroyed the earthquakes, beat them for one. I don't know. I guess maybe there was a point. I think it may have been tied one one at one point. But LFC, the runaway winners in that one,
00:24:03
Speaker
These two teams played, was it a month ago? I don't know, how long ago did they play? Two weeks ago, three weeks ago? The sounders in LFC? Yeah, they just play. It was like three weeks ago, right? Because it was right before the score. Do you feel any better going into this? I think I do, but I actually felt good going into that previous game. That's what's kind of a bummer. I did feel pretty good going into that game.
00:24:33
Speaker
I feel better going into this one. And I think part of that is the house money factor. The sounders know that they struggle against LAFC. I think it's pretty apparent. And it didn't really seem to have a hangover effect against Minnesota.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. You know, they've played exceptionally well in the face of that lost LAFC. Now, maybe part of that was something, you know, Brian Schmetzer said to the team after getting waxed at home against LAFC in a game they were really excited about. I don't know. But I just feel like unless they have a disastrous game to LAFC,
00:25:10
Speaker
I don't know how much psychic damage there's going to be if they lose. If they were to lose in a shootout or something like that. Yeah. Or if they lose like three, two, one, you know, something like that. Right. Like if it's a close game, competitive game, if it's not a three, another three, no. Or I think just as bad like a one, no. Right. Like if they can get a goal, they've got to get a score. They've got a score and either take a lead or tie the game. Like it can't just be them playing from behind all game. Yes.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah. But I think you're right. There's a way to not advance and not be psychically damning. Right. Yeah. And if you beat them, I think that's huge. Yeah. I think demonstrating that you can beat them, especially going into the open cup semifinal, if you go into the open cup semifinal, if you lose this game in an annoying way, or if you lose this game at all, right, and you go into the open cup semifinal and you win,
00:26:09
Speaker
Well, it happened at Starfire. There wasn't a league, you know, like we've got for sure, which is great. Like I'll still be ecstatic, but there are still questions, right? Are they actually capable of playing with LFC won't really be answered. Right. But if you beat them here and then you beat them again in the open cup.
00:26:28
Speaker
I know now the tables have turned. Yeah, yeah, it's the the series will be what 11 to 7 at that point. That's a little better. So yeah, hey. Yeah, so I think you know, I'm excited to play them. I don't
00:26:45
Speaker
I don't need the Sounders to be a better team than LAFC. If the Sounders lose to LAFC in the playoffs, but they have a good regular season, they make a good run at it. I mean, I can live with the Sounders not being the best team, but I don't want to keep going into games with LAFC feeling like, wait, they don't have a chance. And so having them demonstrate that they do in fact have a chance going into a game with LAFC, I think would be monumental, you know? But if they win this game,
00:27:15
Speaker
and they gotta win the next one. Yeah, because I really don't want that third place game. Yeah, it would be a real bummer to win this game and not win the semi-final because like we said, the third place game is sort of the worst case scenario to the point where we both think the center should effectively tank it. Yeah, it would be really funny to win the third place game while trying to tank.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah, I would accept that. Oh, it'd be great. It would be the funniest possible outcome. I would accept that outcome. Yeah. But yeah, it's... I don't know. I still don't know quite what to feel about League's Cup in general. I do like the broad... Like, there's something there. I feel like there's something that I could latch. Like, the game against Pumos was a reminder that League's Cup can be fun. Like, done right.
00:28:08
Speaker
Like that was maybe not the platonic ideal, but it was closer to the platonic ideal of what organizers imagined when they envisioned League's Cup is, you know, when Puma scored the goal that was ultimately ruled offside, the crowd was loud. And I thought that really added to the atmosphere a lot.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, it was. It just felt so much like the level of intensity on the field was so much higher than I was prepared for way higher. And and it really feels like the the Mexican teams are taking this thing super seriously. I mean, we've had a come over or not very good. No, well, of course not. They're not playing at home at all. Like they're staying on the road for a month and a half. Like they're not going to do well.
00:28:57
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it's any game where you've got guys swinging in each other, I can. There's something for me there. If you can figure out how to make the competition a little less of a joke, if you can have that level of intensity, you can get me on board. But.
00:29:14
Speaker
fully on board. I mean, I'm, I'm on board at this point. I'm invested in this thing. Well, this boy, yeah, you go this 40 may as well try to win the thing, right? Yeah. But I'm going to go back to not caring next year unless they can, you're going to have to buy, you have to convince me it's worth paying attention to every year, probably. And I don't know that there's any, like I was, you know, I, I don't know what the solution is to, to make this a better tournament other than to sort of make
00:29:41
Speaker
There's just too many dog games. I think that's the real problem is that there's too high of a percentage of the games are just feel like massive letdowns. Yeah. And frankly, every game that is or not every game, but most of the games that are between like League of Mickey's teams or between MLS teams just feel so. Blah, like it's like there are ways I think to tweak this thing a little bit, but
00:30:11
Speaker
That's going to be a consistent problem. I think until there are games in Mexico, it's not going to feel like a real tournament. Right. So I don't know. But we don't need to solve that today. Right now, we just got to focus on the next one, which is the Sounders facing LAFC on Saturday.
00:30:34
Speaker
And then we go from there, we see how it goes, but, uh, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk a little bit about the transfer window. That's about to close. And we both expect to be kind of disappointing, not kind of that's we expect to be disappointing. And we're also going to talk a little bit about this whole situation with Sunday season tickets, which does not seem like it's going well. Uh, best I can tell, but we'll, we'll talk a little bit about that. And, uh, yeah, you're listening to no Saudi at this and we will be right back.
00:31:04
Speaker
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00:31:30
Speaker
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00:31:55
Speaker
Welcome back to NOS Ariatess. So a couple subjects that I wanted to get into two things as has been our habit lately is segment one, we talk about the on the field stuff, segment two, we oftentimes talk about stuff that is going off the field. And oftentimes not a lot of positivity in these second segments. And today is no
00:32:18
Speaker
no different. We are going to be talking a little bit about the transfer window as well as season ticket renewals that the window is getting ready to close on.
Fan Engagement and Concerns
00:32:27
Speaker
We will... Well, why don't we start there? I wrote a story that came out this week that dug into sort of what I have been seeing, what I've been hearing from a lot of season ticket holders. I did a fair amount of research with... I talked to the sounders a fair amount to get their perspective on things. I don't have a great
00:32:49
Speaker
idea of how season ticket noodles are actually going. But I am hearing way more people telling me that they are either canceling their season tickets, that they are reducing the number of season tickets that they have, or they are seriously considering
00:33:07
Speaker
not renewing or this is like a last year kind of thing for them. Way more than I've ever heard before. Every year there are people that say these things, but it's never like the majority, the overwhelming majority of people that I'm hearing from. I would imagine the Sounders, like I know that I am hearing an inordinate number of complaints compared to like how many season ticket holders there are, but this looks bad. And I think a lot of it is frankly, the Sounders own making.
00:33:37
Speaker
And it really comes down to a few areas. The first one is they put out, they decided to do a pretty big increase this year. I think the average increase is somewhere around 15 to 20%. That by itself, that's pretty bad. You're going to have a fair number of people that are going to not renew based on that alone. But I think if you pull back, I still think value wise,
00:34:04
Speaker
When you compare it to around MLS, when you compare it to other professional sports in Seattle or frankly anywhere, it's not outrageously expensive. It might even actually be relatively cheap compared to those things.
00:34:18
Speaker
But where I think the centers really messed up is they tried to sell this price increase as like not really a price increase. And they tried to say that it's mainly the taxes that we are adding in this year that are at fault without sort of.
00:34:37
Speaker
owning that the taxes were always being paid. They are just now putting the entire onus on those taxes going to the season ticket holder, which I suppose is fine from a business perspective. But don't tell me you're not raising prices when you're raising prices.
00:34:57
Speaker
Yes, I think that there was actually a way where as much as a 15% season ticket price increase can never be a PR win. I think there was a way for it to kind of get into that ballpark.
00:35:13
Speaker
If the PR message from the very beginning had been, hey, so this is a big increase. We know it's a big increase. We know we've had some other big increases recently. We want to explain that in the past, we've more or less been covering all of these taxes. These taxes went up in 2021 because of the expiration of the, I know it was some kind of tax break on the events tax at Lumen that was based on the original blah, blah, blah.
00:35:41
Speaker
We've been covering that since 2021 because we know the pandemic was disruptive and blah, blah, blah, blah, but that's just not something we can do forever. Unfortunately, we have to start adding those fees back into your season ticket costs. That is honest about what's happening. It's getting out ahead of things. It's being transparent. People are going to be upset by it. You're going to lose some people over it.
00:36:11
Speaker
But I think most people who are being reasonable are going to look at that and say, hey, you know what? At least they are trying to communicate what's going on. They're not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Right. You know, they're and like that was kind of cool of them to cover those those that fee increase for as long as they did. So that's especially coming out of covid. Yeah. And whatever you could there was a way to pitch this. Right.
00:36:39
Speaker
where it felt good. Yeah, yeah. And instead, they did, I think the worst possible thing that they could have done, which is to gaslight people and say, well, no, your tickets aren't going up. Right? Well, it's like, well, clearly, they are. The taxes went up, not your tickets. And like, yes, the taxes did go up three years ago. Right. And like, I'm with you, I think that
00:37:07
Speaker
compared to what people are paying for entertainment.
00:37:11
Speaker
And whether or not that's a reasonable thing that entertainment costs have gotten as expensive as they are, if there's any moral justification, that's a whole separate subject. And you can probably guess where I fall on that one. But ultimately, the sounders are a business. And I think these increases are in line more or less with inflation in that sector of the economy, right? And they're going to operate like a business in that regard. And yeah, sounder season tickets are still a pretty good deal in that context.
00:37:40
Speaker
Um, but you know, you're, you're, I don't want to say that they were lying to people because I don't think that that's accurate, but they were definitely trying to spin this in a way where
00:37:57
Speaker
People weren't going to fall for it. I think people... That's the thing that is so weird. Did they really think people were going to look at their bills, see that they were paying more than they were paying last year, and just accept that it's taxes? Yeah. I didn't talk to any reps, but my understanding is that people were being told this is a new tax.
00:38:20
Speaker
Right. That's what I, that's what I heard too. At least at one point during this process, that was sort of the line is a new tax. And taxes are publicly available information. Like the government is not charging secret taxes, really. And so that was easy to debunk. And I just, it's insulting, I think to to your fan base. And
00:38:46
Speaker
When we're in this period of the economy is not great right now, I think for most people. And inflation has come under control, but
00:39:01
Speaker
It still has hit people really hard over the last few years. There's a lot of competition for entertainment dollars. The Sounders fan base is, frankly, is aging and probably has competing priorities for their money right now that they didn't have 10 years ago. Because the Sounders haven't done a great job of
00:39:21
Speaker
bringing in the new generation of fans, I think. They haven't, they haven't. And they've done a really piss poor job of keeping the value proposition up for their existing fans. I mean, we've talked about this before, but man, when I was paying, what, like $300 for my season ticket and every game felt like a party and the team was winning and they were investing money. Easiest money you spent ever, probably. Absolutely. And I did not have a lot of money back then, you know, but it was it was a no brainer for me.
00:39:50
Speaker
Um, and now like the games are still fun, but they're not, it doesn't feel like a part. I mean, you know, we've talked about this. It's the game day experience sucks compared to what it used to be. Um, the level of investment in the on-field product is not anything compared to what it used to be. Right. Um, relative to the rest of the league, obviously they're paying, you know, the salaries are higher and all that good stuff, but
00:40:16
Speaker
MLS is paying those. I don't know really how much that matters. It's not a good value proposition compared to what it used to be. At the very least, be honest about what you're doing in a situation like this. It's shocking to have handled it as poorly as they could. It feels like there's this trend of things where it's like,
00:40:42
Speaker
There's something that they're going to have to take a hit for some degree. And their attempts to mitigate it are the absolute worst thing they've done. And then they have to apologize. Right. And they say, well, we'll do better next time. Right. And then we started the cycle again.
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's just baffling from from an organization that used to seemingly have all of this stuff figured out to a degree that other clubs didn't. It's just that I don't know what changed. I don't know when it changed, really, but it's.
00:41:13
Speaker
It's really it's really disappointing to see it's it is disappointing. And I think the other thing that I'm hearing from a lot of fans and this sort of dovetails nicely into the end of the transfer window is that for all these rising costs, fans are having a really hard time.
00:41:29
Speaker
looking at the product and saying, so where's all the new money going? You know, you sold yourselves out for Providence, you have, they apparently are doing a great business in terms of like bringing in revenue outside of tickets, ticket prices are going up.
00:41:47
Speaker
So where's the money going? Because the answer can't be, well, it went to building long anchors or it went to investing in the rain. It has to be going like that. Those are nice things to do. Those are admirable things. Maybe they're even necessary for the business. But at some point, the money has to go back onto the field. And here we are sitting about 24 hours from the close of the transfer window.
00:42:15
Speaker
Everything I'm hearing is if the sounders make a move, it'll be a surprise. I'm not expecting them to make a move. I would love to find out that they made one. But at the very least, they're leaving it to the last minute.
00:42:31
Speaker
I know there's a
00:42:48
Speaker
They don't want to bring in someone just for the sake of bringing in someone, although I would argue that it would be worthwhile to bring in someone just for the sake of bringing in someone, but whatever. They don't want to bring in someone that is not an improvement over their current options, but fits in their salary cap. So they have roughly $680,000, call it $650,000, something like that, to spend on a player and to
00:43:14
Speaker
And that's what they can get with all in. That's not a huge amount of money. But it's enough to bring in someone. But they have to be better than the current options, which are guys like Paul Rothrock, Christian Roldan, Pedro de la Vega. We know who they have to be beating for minutes. I understand there's a challenge there. But they could also do something else if they were willing to spend a transfer fee, they could go out and sign to you 22s if they wanted to.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, and they would they would definitely fit under the salary cap. They would have to spend real money on transfer fees. But that would be clearly a sign that they were trying to do something. And instead, they're not going to do anything. I don't think it's it's such a bummer. And I think it absolutely
00:44:02
Speaker
absolutely feeds into the frustration that fans are getting, even as the team is playing better. That's the killer part to me. Yeah, I mean, to some degree, I don't want to say it makes it worse, but when the sounders looked like they were going to kind of limp into the playoffs and not make a whole lot of noise, and maybe this would be kind of a wasted year,
00:44:28
Speaker
I still wanted them to do something, but the position of why bother you do was like a little more understandable. Yeah, sure. I feel like a difference maker on this team right now that that can give them you know another option off the bench even or like whatever it is out of depth.
00:44:47
Speaker
cover for Joao Paulo, who has been great, but maybe not the healthiest guy, right? All of those things would make me feel better about this team's ability to go on a run in the playoffs.
00:45:00
Speaker
And it's just unconscionable to me that they're not going to do that. And it's like, you know, you look back at the, I think what is probably would be considered the, the halcyon days of this team from 2014 to 2021.
Financial Strategy and Future Investments
00:45:15
Speaker
They were active in every summer window. Um, they, they, you know, there was a run where they brought in Nico on here, Victor Rodriguez, the next Raul. They also brought in, um, uh, you know, I think like, uh,
00:45:33
Speaker
They were making moves, doing things to improve the team.
00:45:42
Speaker
And, you know, if they were doing similar things in the off season, right? Like if they were front way to another moves, that would be one thing. And like, I don't want to I don't want to shortchange the Pedro de la Vega signing. But it's like you're ostensibly replacing Nico Ledero with Pedro de la Vega, who, yeah, you paid a big transfer fee for him, but he's not making anywhere near what.
00:46:08
Speaker
No, in terms of if you compare 2016 dollars to 2024 dollars. Yeah. You know, the investment in Pedro de la Vega is like a 60 percent at best investment. Yes. Yeah. And then aside from that, you're you're bringing in Danny Musofsky, who I think for what his salary is and his sensible role on the team, I think is a perfectly good signing. And that's all you're doing. That's it. That's.
00:46:37
Speaker
That's just not, you can't continue like this. This is going to be what the third straight summer transfer window where the sounders aren't making a move, which I think is unprecedented in modern MLS.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah, if it's almost certainly unprecedented in the TAM era, it might be like, I don't know, I guess there was a point at which MLS teams weren't super active in the summer. So I'm sure at some point you can find teams that went three straight summers. But in terms of the MLS that the Sounders have existed in, this is so outside the norm.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's just it's it's unbelievable to me that this is being allowed to happen, that there's just no impetus at whatever level in the front office. There needs to be the impetus to make these things happen. There just doesn't seem to be any. Yeah. Any willingness to do it. And it's it's it's so frustrating because it just does feel like finally this group of players has kind of figured out
00:47:39
Speaker
how they want to approach games. They're starting to trust each other. They're starting to transform into something different and better and more exciting. And it really feels like if they could capitalize on this positive energy and this progress by making a signing that is going to be impactful down the stretch.
00:47:59
Speaker
Or at least it's the potential to be impactful. Yeah, that just shows that they're committed to doing something to improve this team. I think it could be huge and they're not going to do it. I do not understand it. It doesn't make any sense to me at all on any level that has the sporting success of the team being a priority. I'm sure you could make the case for this decision and the decision in the last couple of summer windows on a dollars and cents
00:48:30
Speaker
level, but three straight summers. No, no, no, like that's, that's the part where it becomes sort of like unconscionable almost. Yeah. And I understand there's a lot of frustration with Craig Weibel. And I don't I don't want to absolve him of responsibility, because I think he ultimately is the one who is
00:48:53
Speaker
that's charged with making the roster. But I do think the reality is that they're not being given budget to make bigger moves. I think that is hard to not recognize. If they had millions of dollars to go pay transfer fees,
00:49:12
Speaker
you got to figure they would go do it. If they had millions of dollars to replace Raul Rui Diaz, who like you might be able to make like we've talked about this so much, but I think you can make a sporting argument for keeping him on the roster. I guess, but you can't let that be the reason you don't do anything.
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, there's got to be a way to make something happen that doesn't involve trading away so much value that you hamstring your team in other areas or whatever it is. Like there just has to be a way for that to happen. Yeah, there it's it's it's it's it's just very it's I want to be excited about this team and I am excited about them on game day.
00:50:02
Speaker
I don't want to take away from that at all. The LAFC game has the potential to be a lot of fun. I don't want to take away from that at all. But I am getting to the point where I'm genuinely worried about the direction of the
00:50:20
Speaker
of the way that spending is, the way this team is being budgeted. And I, you know, I would have told you a few months ago that of course, like of course, of course, this summer, this winter, they'll go out or the whether or not it was this this summer or this coming winter, they would take the raw really ideas DP spot and make a big signing and maybe they'd even make two. Right.
00:50:46
Speaker
I don't know. I would I can't guarantee that at this point. I assume that they'll do something, but I don't I wouldn't I don't know what they're going to do. I really don't. I wish that's that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I would imagine they'll sign a DP, but is it going to be?
00:51:03
Speaker
You sure as hell would hope, I'll tell you that, but is it going to be the 2024 version of Raul Rudea's? I don't have any faith that that's going to be the case. No, I don't either. And like you said, like three months ago, I would have been appalled if somebody suggested that the sounders weren't going to have that level of ambition. Oh, I'm sure I've argued with people that have been that I thought were being so unnecessarily pessimistic about the
00:51:30
Speaker
their willingness to spend and. And I think based on the evidence we had at the time, that was the right position to take these things have very clearly changed. And I don't know. It's not tenable, man, it's just not because this roster that they have right now that's playing pretty well, these guys aren't going to be good forever. You've got to replace them. And yeah. And we can't go through another stretch like we did at the beginning of the season or the middle of last season, like we can't do this every year.
00:51:59
Speaker
It's yeah, it's frustrating man. Yeah, the other thing it's it is kind of I don't know It's it's both remarkable and frustrating when you look at this roster and how everyone was acquired They have almost everyone in this roster was either acquired on the very very cheap from with like a but like in terms of money that they actually paid transfer fees for and
00:52:27
Speaker
They have right now, they have Yemar, who they bought in 2020. They have Nuhu, I suppose you can argue because they did pay a transfer fee for him, but it was like a very minimal transfer fee. They have Zhao Paolo, who they bought in 2020 as well. They have Leo Chu, who they bought in 2021. And Pedro de la Vega, who they obviously just bought. And that's it. Yeah, that's it.
00:52:56
Speaker
everyone else, they have acquired either through the Academy system, through the draft, or as a free agent. And there might be a few guys in there, there's a few guys in there who they may have paid like, some marginal trade, they may have traded for something like that. But like, like Stephen Fry, I suppose they may have traded for Stephen Fry. But like most almost all these players on their roster are players they gave up
00:53:21
Speaker
What did I say, four, they count four or five players that they paid a transfer fee for. That's unbelievable. Yeah. And most like, we're not talking big transfer fees. Most of them were a long time ago. Yeah. Rolls was a big transfer fee.
00:53:38
Speaker
De La Vega's was sizable for transfer fees paid by the club in history. That's a pretty middle of the road transfer fee in MLS. Every team in MLS at this point is paying equivalent transfer fees.
00:53:52
Speaker
And I always want to stress, I don't believe that transfer spend has any correlation to winning, right? You have to spend something. Yes. You have to be willing to buy players. You don't have to spend the most, but you have to spend something. Yeah. And if you're not going to pay transfer fees, sign free agents.
00:54:12
Speaker
Like you can't talk about how that's where the real value is. When they don't, they haven't said no, none of the players on the roster right now are foreign free. None of them were signed on freeze from foreign teams. And think about all the players that have been
00:54:32
Speaker
key players for good sounders teams that they acquired that way. Gustav Svensson, Victor Rodriguez. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. Absolutely. Nelson Valdez, kind of. Eric Freiburg, right? Like lots of there's a bunch of. Yeah. Good players. That.
00:54:51
Speaker
you know, that would help a lot right now. If we could have the 2024 version of Andreas Evanchic on this team right now, I would be so happy. Oh, my God. It would help so much to have another guy like that on this team. Who's self-scented even, right? Like, you know, there's just no...
00:55:11
Speaker
they're just not willing to do it. And it's baffling. It's truly baffling. You know, Adrian gave an interview to me earlier this year that I would imagine most of you listened to. And I asked him about the whole thing where like, well, what do you like? Tell us about your your background. And he's like, I just sort of like throw away question like, how involved are you?
00:55:34
Speaker
And I am, I now think it's like, maybe he was telling us more than I realized at the time that he was, you know, like, I do think he is more involved in the transfer strategy than I realized. And I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. It feels like he's maybe micromanaging this more than
00:55:55
Speaker
I don't know. I don't feel great about the way that the front office is set up right now. I hope that they can get it together and that they can make some signings. And I would like to think that worst case, they figure this out by winter and we go into the preseason feeling good about the state of the roster and their willingness to spend. But where we sit right now, I don't feel great.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yeah, if if they go out and they, you know, spend 10 plus million on on a, you know, not necessarily a raw redis replacement, but an attacking DP. And, you know, they make a couple other like, even if they bring Rusnak back as a DP, I'm fine with that at this point, honestly. But they expect them to spend enough to to reliably upgrade over Rusnak. No.
00:56:51
Speaker
There's something to be said for some continuity, but they've got to turn over some of the other guys. I like this roster, but you can't convince me that there's not improvement to be had in the starting 11. They cannot go into another season being as reliant on 12 Hollow as they are right now. No. I would like to think there's a place for him on the roster, but he can't be an automatic starter next year. Just one time I would like them to move on from somebody too soon.
00:57:20
Speaker
Yeah, you know, like if that means trading a guy who's a who's a nailed on starter right now for for some value either down the line or flexibility or whatever. Whatever it is, but I just yeah, it's I'm I feel great about the present for this team. And I've never felt worse about the future for this team. And it's not a good way of putting it. Yeah, it's not not great.
00:57:46
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's on that on that wonderful note. I suppose we should wrap up. I will say we are doing a anniversary party next week on August 22nd at fast fashion. If you are a supporter or above of Senator Hart, you can get some free tickets.
00:58:15
Speaker
I would encourage you to look through your email to find information about that. If you want to go to this, we have also sent out emails about it. I would encourage you to go through your email and find out how to get tickets. And if you're just listening to this and you want to show up, I mean, I don't know. Do some enterprising and figure it out.
00:58:43
Speaker
We are going to celebrate. We're going to have a live show. We're going to hopefully just have a good time. We'll have a PA this time. We'll do what? We'll have a PA this time. Yeah, I bought a PA. So we won't repeat the foibles of our last live show. And I think mainly we just want to have a good time. I've been trying to curb my desire to what I always do is blow this up. And that's how Yacht-Con was born was basically
00:59:12
Speaker
like over planning a live episode. And I tried to make this not Yacht-Con. I don't want anyone to come into this with the expectation that it's going to be like Yacht-Con. It's just going to hopefully be like a low key fun event where hopefully I get to actually talk to people like my hope is that there's like
00:59:30
Speaker
not so many people there that I could actually talk to people. Like that would be cool. Yeah, it'd be nice. Like the last live show we did, I got to talk to a lot. Anyone who wanted to talk to me was able to talk to me. That was cool. I like that. I like meeting you all. Yeah. Nobody wanted to talk to me, but that's okay. Did no one talk to you? No, I don't think that's true. Oh, I was going to say, I don't think that's true. But, uh, I am really excited that we made it a year.
00:59:56
Speaker
So far, renewals seem to be going okay. We haven't quite hit the point where like the biggest portion of our annual subscribers are
Podcast Membership and Sustainability
01:00:07
Speaker
due. I think that's like in a week where a lot like all of a sudden, a lot of subscriptions are going to run out in a week. And so we're really going to find out how many people want to make this a sustainable thing. But so far so good. We like we haven't been inundated with early subscribers who were
01:00:26
Speaker
who are canceling. So that's good. We're tracking well. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been a fun ride. This has been kind of amazing. I don't, I don't know that I've fully like appreciated, like this is an amazing thing that we accomplished. I agree. Like, and I want to say thank you to our listeners. Like I've been able to do this. Like I made it a year basically. This was essentially my full-time job all year. Uh,
01:00:54
Speaker
And we've been able to pay a lot of our contractors. I haven't missed any paychecks. Yeah. None of it went into Jim Bankoff's pocket, so that's good. None of it went into Jim Bankoff's pocket. A lot of it went into the government's pocket though, man. Well, I had to pay some taxes.
01:01:15
Speaker
That's, you know, but as a big lefty, I suppose I should like own that, right? That should be proud. That's a civilization, right? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I should, I should love paying my taxes. I should, it's the best day of the year. But anyway, thank you to everyone for taking this ride with us. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Lickit.
01:01:38
Speaker
Uh, I hope you guys are still enjoying this. Oh, thank you to full pool wines. God, that's they, you know, it was crazy. Full pool wines has been sponsoring us since what? Oh, 2011 or something. 2012 something like that. And I asked him if they wanted to sport lobbing scorchers. They're like, yeah, I would, I would like to do that.
01:02:02
Speaker
That's cool. The doctor's office is sponsoring the cooler guild, which is the new rain podcast on the sounder podcast network. So it's been a lot of fun. I took a vacate. I took a vacate two vacations this year. Yeah. Yeah. When you never able to do that.
01:02:26
Speaker
No, I like, I didn't really, I don't know if I really a hundred percent logged off, but you know, I didn't record this podcast. Yeah. So that was cool. Yeah. That was a plus to, you know, get to, get to take a break. And I was like hanging out with Mark, you know, so. Yeah, exactly. He doesn't get anything out of it, but.
01:02:45
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I think it's paid. Oh, that's right. A little bit. You get paid a little bit. Aaron's like, what? Where's my paycheck? All right. Well, anyway, I guess that's a that's our sign off. Yeah, we had to we had to say something nice after. Yeah, exactly. I did. Yeah, exactly. You get it. They call it a shit sandwich, I think. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. They call it what you're not supposed to do, apparently. Like I.
01:03:15
Speaker
I was in a management with one of the last things, one of the things I did, not to, nothing on too far of a tangent. One of the last things I did when I was at SB Nation or at Vox, whatever you want to call it, I had to go through like a management. I was sort of in management there and I had to go through some classes. And one of the things they told us about giving feedback was that you shouldn't do a shit sandwich. Uh, where you, you, you see two nice things around one negative thing. People don't like that. And I was like, Hey.
01:03:46
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like people do like to hear good things, too. They do. They definitely do. And I would rather if I'm in a meeting with my boss or listening to a soccer podcast, which are pretty analogous to situations. Yeah. You know, I want to hear all the things I need to hear, whether they're good or bad. But it's nice to start on a pleasant note, and it's nice to end on a on a as well. So I have.
01:04:13
Speaker
that feels like a human desire yeah i mean it's like i don't want you to be like oh you did a really good job uh you know in that meeting the other day we're laying you off um also i like your shoes like obviously that's not great but otherwise you know i think it's fine
01:04:32
Speaker
I think feeding a shit sandwich to your subordinates is fine. You can clip that, put it on record. But yeah, that's the next promo. Aaron supports shit sandwiches. That's right.
01:04:49
Speaker
uh all right all right well that now that that really is a good place to end that uh i'm jeremiah oshan signing off for my coast erin campo and lick it this is no study at dis and remember you'll never get alone
01:06:02
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!