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Mailbag: How active will the Sounders be this summer?
89 Plays5 months ago
In our constant effort to right-size our offerings, we’ve decided to start doing monthly mailbag episodes. This is the first of those episodes. Among the topics we tackle are expectations for the summer transfer window, explore the usefulness of G+ and try to explain why there were so few MLS-era players at the 50th Anniversary celebration.
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Transcript
Introduction from Seattle Sounders Players
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to NOS Arietes. This episode of NOS Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of NOS Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters.
Sponsorship by Full Pull Wines
00:00:20
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:28
Speaker
A.O. Shen! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win! Here come three years through the middle to crown it the vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations. It's the Sounders' MLS Cup! Niko Liddo leaves out!
00:01:12
Speaker
Is that what you young people call twerking?
00:01:28
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of NOS Adietes.
Mailbag Episode Introduction and Schedule Explanation
00:01:32
Speaker
I am Jeremiah O'Shan. This is the mailbag for the week of I guess July 1st, we'll call it. And I'm joined by Aaron Campo. We're recording this mailbag a little earlier than we had planned because we looked at the schedule and realized there's a lot of games coming up. And if we're going to do a mailbag episode, we should just go ahead and do it now. So.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, I guess we're doing it. We're doing it. You want to just jump right in, Aaron? Let's do it, yeah. Thanks to everyone for adapting to our new mailbag format.
Addressing Locker Room Tensions
00:02:11
Speaker
We'll change it if it doesn't work, but I'm cautiously optimistic this is going to be a good way to go about things. The first question is from Ian Mitchell.
00:02:19
Speaker
Is there a sense of whether there is general increasing locker room tension, or is it localized to Raoul right now? This question is from June 25th. So we know it's not just Raoul, I guess, at this point. Yeah, it's not just Raoul. New Who apparently was upset. And I've heard some rumors that there's a little bit of a faction. I don't know how
00:02:44
Speaker
really in, like, dug in these guys are. But supposedly, like, Yeymar was a little bit upset with some things, and Leo Chuu apparently feels like a little aggrieved. But best I can tell, it's mainly about playing time, and it's not, which is sort of, and I guess with Yeymar, maybe it's not so much playing time. Yeymar, it sounds like he maybe feels like he's been singled out a couple times for criticism.
00:03:12
Speaker
But I don't know.
Debate on Raoul's Future with the Sounders
00:03:14
Speaker
I don't I don't get the sense that the players are sort of going at each other. I think it's more the players versus coaches, which is, I don't know, I guess a reasonably healthy, you know, as far as those things go, there's always going to be some tension. There's always going to be some degree of players not happy with their playing time if everyone was happy with their playing time.
00:03:36
Speaker
something's wrong, I suppose. So I don't know. I don't I don't get the sense that there's like widespread unrest. And we're not really seeing signs of it at training or anywhere else. So, you know, I think, from what I understand, at least with Raul, it does sound like he had a chance to cool off and take a step back. And I think he does realize that whether or not
00:04:00
Speaker
He thinks his long-term future is in Seattle. I think he appreciates that the best thing he can do is play well and either make himself attractive to other teams or make it so he's playing so well he needs to get more minutes. That's the way out of this. He's not going to pout his way out of this situation.
00:04:24
Speaker
And I think he
Player Dynamics and Role Comparisons
00:04:25
Speaker
realizes that, the sounders realize that I don't, I still don't really see a scenario where the sounders buy him out. I could see him maybe being traded or someone offering to take him off the sounders hands, but I just don't, I don't think the sounders are inclined to buy them out for one reason or another. I mean, whether it's budget, whether it's culture, whatever it is, I just, I just really don't think it's going to happen. Yeah, I definitely, um,
00:04:52
Speaker
I think that that much is clear at this point. I think if it was going to happen, I feel like after the suspension probably would have been the time for it to happen most likely. And yeah, it's and I think a lot of people were really upset with Raul in the wake of all that stuff. And I totally get it. It's it's an unpleasant thing. But I do think Raul is a guy who loves
00:05:16
Speaker
you know, loves the team, loves the fans, doesn't want to be- Loves his teammates at the very least. Yeah, loves his teammates. Is probably pissed at Brian right now, obviously, and maybe the front office, who knows, but this feels like a salvageable situation. I think a really good outcome would be him accepting a reduced role where he's at least being counted on to do important things. I think he's looked really good as a sub.
00:05:42
Speaker
When he's, you know, come on, I agree. Um, and he looks a lot like his old self, right? And it was kind of a similar situation with Nico last year where Nico accepted a reduced role and he wasn't happy about it, but he played his ass off when he got the opportunities too. And you know, in that reduced role was a pretty effective player. And I think that's a, uh, the best outcome right now. And I think probably the most plausible one as well.
00:06:13
Speaker
As an observer, I think the person I'm a little more frustrated in that situation is new who because it does feel a little bit like he just sort of like me to this whole thing where he is like, yeah, Raul's mad. I'm mad too. And he's, you know, here's a guy he gets pulled out in the 70. You know, we don't have to go through this whole thing, but yeah, pulled out in the 73rd minute. Souther scored three goals after he came off the field, like maybe have a little bit of self-awareness. Right. And like chill, but whatever. We don't need to re litigate this.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, I will say that if I'm...
00:06:43
Speaker
All right. So the next one is from Twimberly23.
Sounders' Formation Discussion
00:06:45
Speaker
He says, do you think the 3, 4, 2, 1 is a formation we will be primarily using by the end of the year? Some of Brian's comments make me think you've used that as the best formation for when De La Vega is healthy. It'll be interesting to see. I don't think you can really play that formation with Reebak or Whiting a left back. I think that's a tricky or left whatever.
00:07:07
Speaker
Um, whatever it is, left center back or left wing? Certainly not left center back. Um, I guess he can play at left wing back, but then you're, you're losing some offense there, I think. So, um, because you're, you know, you're ostensibly dropping Leo Chu, I think in that situation. So, um, I think that makes it tougher, but I do think new who is probably going to get a starting back job back pretty quickly. I think it's one we'll see more often, but I really do think the nomenclature is.
00:07:34
Speaker
very subtle. I think the Sounders have a system that they play and depending on the guys that are in it, they tweak some things that they do. But functionally, it's going to play one way in defense and one way in attack. And who's getting forward, who's
Youth Contracts and Future Moves
00:07:51
Speaker
staying back, that's going to change based on the personnel available. But ultimately, it's a really similar system, I think most of the time.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that's always tough when you're talking about like the center should switch to a three back formation. And it's tough because what you're then talking about doing is effectively taking a left winger off for a left wing back. Right.
00:08:17
Speaker
And I don't know if that really makes them more dangerous. Right. Right. I think, I mean, in a world where Leo Chu gets sold potentially, maybe that makes a lot of sense, but I don't know how, how likely that actually is. Yeah. Um, next one is from Ken W. Who is our most, our next currently rostered player to be signed to a U22 contract?
00:08:41
Speaker
So the good news, I suppose, if you want to look at it that way is, yeah, I mean, there's no reason to not look at it this way, is anyone who is up for that type of contract is already signed pretty long term. I don't have it right in front of me, but both Vargas and Reed Baker Whiting are players who I think theoretically could be do big raises like that.
00:09:07
Speaker
Vargas is probably the one who's closer to a big raise, but it looks like, you know, from my understanding is there's a lot of interest in him in league at Mackie's and that could be something that results in a pretty significant transfer sooner than later. Maybe not this summer, but I wouldn't, I definitely wouldn't rule that out. I think there's a distinct possibility that he moves this summer or at least he's sold the summer. Maybe they can convince the buying team to let them finish out the year in Seattle, but
00:09:37
Speaker
You know, he would be the person that I would expect to be there. And then I guess Reid Baker Whiting is the next one who's the candidate. But again, you know, he, here's a player who signed at least I think through 2027. And, you know, if he continues, if he can stay healthy and he can progress the way that a lot of people think he's going to progress, I wouldn't be surprised if next summer he's, he's sold.
00:10:01
Speaker
And, you know, I don't know why you would feel like you need to sign him to an extension before then.
00:10:07
Speaker
you know, I don't get the sense that he's, you know, the extensions are sort of like, you have a player like a Josh attention, who it makes a lot of sense for, because he was out of con or he was due to be out of contract. And he probably had some negotiating ability, you know, get him paid. He's a little old, but he's also three years older than than those guys. Yeah. So I don't know that there's anyone else in that that range, maybe Danny Leyva, theoretically,
00:10:38
Speaker
But I would be a little like Danny Lee would have to start playing a lot better than he's been, or he's had to be getting a lot more minutes, I should say. Yeah, I suppose you could make the argument that extending somebody you're planning on selling makes it
00:10:56
Speaker
It gives you some additional bargaining power, right? A better bargaining position, I guess. But if it's already on long-term contracts, that's... Right. And I think just in MLS, I think part of the reason
00:11:13
Speaker
players get sold from MLS is because teams are not trying to drive as hard
Absence from the 50th Match
00:11:18
Speaker
to bargain a lot of the time. I mean, it's, it's trying to establish itself as a selling league, at least to some degree. I think the Sounders, I don't want to say are desperate to sell players, but I think they'd like to start making a bit of a profit on their Academy. So it's kind of a cross purposes there. Like you're not, you know, you're not trying to wring every last penny out of, out of your Academy players. Um,
00:11:39
Speaker
So yeah, yeah, Vargas is signed, guaranteed through 2025. So I suppose he might be kind of a candidate for that next year. If he was, if he's still here next year, I think he's probably a candidate for it. Baker Whiting, I guess Baker Whiting's contract is only through
00:11:56
Speaker
He's only guaranteed through this year. So he might actually get a new contract. Like if he's back, okay, so I guess I should revise what I'm saying. Looking at this, I actually think there's a decent chance that Baker Whiting will be the next player on this contract if he is still with the Sounders at the end of this year. And that even if it's just to get him to next summer, it would probably make sense. He's, you know, he's got an option for 2025. The Sounders will exercise that I'm sure, but then they'll probably want to
00:12:24
Speaker
work on a longer term deal there. So yeah, there's your answer. I overestimated how long they were signed for. Good question. Good question. Maybe you looked this up, Ken. Yeah. It is technically your turn in the rotation, but I'm going to ask this one because it's- Okay.
00:12:39
Speaker
Sure. Better suited for you. Uh, it's from love. Excellent comment without sharing anything. Very good name. Without sharing anything that's too confidential or dirty laundry. Could you please provide us with an update on the players who did not attend the 50th match ideally category categorized by was too busy slash conflict. Just didn't care. Not happy with the team. Not invited for X reason have descended into a bottomless MAGA hole or Eddie Johnson, et cetera.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, well, there's there were a lot of players, a lot of players who did not attend. So I can't pretend to have an answer for all of them. But I think it does sort of broadly fall into a few categories. The first of which is and I don't know. I don't know if we actually went through this, but I'll I'll I'll do it again, even if we did.
00:13:27
Speaker
Uh, I think the first category is, you know, fair to say these guys are busy or they had some kind of conflict. And I think you can look, you can put players like a Michael Spurning or a, uh, I think like Steve Zachwani, Marcus Hahnemann.
00:13:44
Speaker
You know, guys like that, guys that are still involved in the game or are young or Will Bruin, another player, you know, that's that's a good one. Will Bruin. I do know why, you know, his his apparently his father-in-law or one of his in-laws got sick. And so he had to he had to stay with his family. He was planning on coming out. He ended up not making the trip. So there you go with with him.
00:14:10
Speaker
Chad Marshall was another one who you know, I guess his daughter had a he's the coach of his daughter's team and your basketball or soccer team and they were in the playoffs or something like that so he couldn't come like there was a like a lot of players who you would have otherwise expected to be here like that weren't here for you know, perfectly legitimate they have lives type of reasons and then
00:14:38
Speaker
then there's a whole lot of players who I think probably fall into the didn't care category, especially players who are like in Europe, like a Christian Tiffert or a Blaze Kufo or
Cody Baker and Danny Leyva's Roles
00:14:48
Speaker
a, you know, like you can kind of run down the list. A lot of players who just are no longer engaged with the club for one reason or another.
00:15:00
Speaker
I don't know how much effort the Sounders went into recruiting a lot of these guys. I will say one of the, like the Sounders did pay the airfare for a handful of players. I think they offered, I think they offered most people accommodations, but a lot of, for a lot of players, it was on their own dime. It wasn't their own time. So it wasn't like the Sounders were offering everyone first-class travel in a hotel. It was like, Hey, if you'd like to come out for a happy hour,
00:15:30
Speaker
We would love to see you. And, you know, so players who are local, that's, you know, that's why they want to come. You know, then you have a player like a, like a, my understanding is, you know, like Zach Scott isn't super thrilled with the sounders right now. Supposedly Casey Keller, I think is also not super thrilled with the sounders for one reason or another. They're, those guys are local, but I guess they weren't inclined to
00:15:56
Speaker
come. If I'm wrong about that, I would love it if those guys reached out to me and set me straight and tell me why they aren't there. But that was my understanding. A few guys like that. And then. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't have a lot more to add to that. I don't like I said, I don't have a exhaustive list of why the hundreds of players who have suited up for the founders at one point weren't there. But I did think it was interesting that the MLS era was the least represented era
00:16:27
Speaker
in that whole thing, but I think a big part of that is like the U.S.L. guys are a lot of locals and they are a little older. And so they have, they're not quite at the, we're taking care of our young children part of their lives. Yeah. It would have been really funny if place could have showed up.
00:16:45
Speaker
It would have been hilarious. Or Eddie. There was a tiny, tiny slipper of me that was hoping maybe they had buried the hatchet with Eddie and he would be there. I mean, I don't know. It's possible. He's probably friends with a lot of guys. David Estrada. There was another one. David Estrada had wanted to come, but he had, you know, he was, I think he had responsibilities with New Mexico, with New Mexico United, I think. Yeah. So anyway. There you go.
00:17:12
Speaker
Hope that answers your question. This is from the list. He says, what happened to Cody and Danny Leyva? Do they have a future with the Sounders? I think I mean, Cody has been around the team. This question was both around the team. Yeah. Well, Cody's been playing a little a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely gotten some minutes. But I think that Cody Baker's future in MLS is a guy that's going to get a few minutes here or there, most likely. He certainly.
00:17:39
Speaker
isn't so old that he couldn't turn a big corner and change that trajectory, but he's just going to be a guy that kicks around and picks up spot starts and late minutes and things like that. That's totally fine. I think that's his future with the Sounders. Danny Leyva is a trickier one. Yeah.
00:17:59
Speaker
It's I like Danny Leyva a lot. I feel like he should probably be getting a few more minutes, but at the same time, I feel like there's probably a reason he's not and that I'm not seeing. You know, I think he means and he's also you got to look at who he's not getting. Who's playing in front of him, right? That's Josh attention. Obed Vargas, Joe Paulo. Yeah, that too, that too. And I think, you know, he
00:18:28
Speaker
He's had a lot of opportunities and I don't think he's blown them,
Contracts and Player Movements
00:18:34
Speaker
but I also don't think he's like the ideal outcome for a guy in a Danny Leyva situation is you get your opportunity and you pull a Paul Rothrock, right? Right. Makes it happen and you force.
00:18:48
Speaker
the coach to play you and he just hasn't done that. Um, you know, he, he just hasn't, he hasn't asserted himself enough to, to be getting those minutes, getting, getting regular minutes. I think the open cup is a big chance for him. Maybe league's cup too. I don't know what the.
00:19:03
Speaker
plan is for rotation there. But yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if he gets some League's Cup minutes. I mean, I would I I'm expecting him to start in in the Open Cup. I think that's a good, you know, him and Josh Atencio potentially are a nice little partnership, especially while you're playing in Sacramento Republic, who is not is not a bad team by any stretch, but they're not, you know, they're not MLS quality. You know, you got to be if you can't
00:19:30
Speaker
rely on Danny Leyva and Josh Atencio to deliver that. It says that's a problem. I think Danny Leyva still has a future. The thing is, Danny Leyva, we're talking about contract extensions. Danny Leyva is still signed through 2020. He's guaranteed through 2026. He is not someone who is going anywhere unless it's a loan. He's got time. He's 21 years old.
00:20:00
Speaker
Right. He's 21 years old. He's still got time. I think he's probably got a little higher upside than Cody Baker at this point. But Cody Baker, I think is going to be a pro for a long time and there's no shame in that. I think Cody Baker is going to be around. I think he's going to be a useful player. He might not ever be a MLS All-Star.
00:20:23
Speaker
But, you know, he'll be around. Cody Baker also signed through 2026, guaranteed through 2026 with, you know, so neither one of these guys are going anywhere. And nor should they. I mean, they're, you know, the day where Danny Leyva is a, you know, $2 million sale might have passed. Right. Right. But, you know, and I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how he develops too.
00:20:50
Speaker
He's still, I still like him as a player. Yeah, I like his game a lot. And I think there are going to be minutes next year to go around. Yeah. Especially, especially if, if Obed gets old. Yes.
Sounders' Spending Strategy and DPs
00:21:02
Speaker
All right. Next one is from Maro the Tank. If we're not going to get a roll buyout, as Jeremiah has said, he's currently hearing it. It would help the fans to hear that they have a plan to bring in two new DPs in the winter. Do you think we might at least get that?
00:21:15
Speaker
I think we'll get at least one because I don't see how you would justify not signing at least one. Take this for whatever it's worth, but there is a way to justify only signing one, and that's because these new MLS rules say if you only have two senior DPs or two full DPs,
00:21:41
Speaker
Then you get $2 million extra in allocation money. And I could see that being a useful tool that the sounders would want to use. I realize that's not going to fill anyone with excitement right now, but $2 million of Gamm should get you a really good player. It won't get you a DP.
00:22:07
Speaker
Yeah, my expectation is they're going to sign at least one new designated player. I have not had the opportunity. I have not gotten that level of detail to be able to tell you authoritatively that they're going to go out and sign to, but I think they will make some significant additions in the, in the winter. Hopefully.
00:22:27
Speaker
They do something this summer. They should, they have cap space. So they should do something. Yeah. But I don't, I don't have a good sense of what that's going to be. I wish I had better news for you, but I don't right now.
00:22:41
Speaker
I think that the game versus extra DP question is really interesting and I don't have the one thing I'm sure about is that everybody that is positive that one solution is better than the other is full of it. I think that it's going to be situational based on the teams themselves, the players involved.
00:23:03
Speaker
And I would tend to think that with the way the Sounders like to build their rosters, that they're more likely to want to take that extra game. And I think they have a pretty good track record of making those sort of not quite elite, but really good player signings like Shaw Apollo, Gustav Svensson, guys like that who take a good team and make them a great team with the right DPs.
00:23:31
Speaker
You know, you're also, I'm not going to tell you you're crazy if you want them to sign two DPs. I think that there's really an upside to both of those. Yeah. I mean, I guess one of the things that's worth asking yourself is would you rather get two DPs or one DP and two or three TAM level players? Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
And unless you're going to really blow it out and sign two kind of mega DP type players, which I don't really see in the cards, I think spreading your money out might make more sense. I think too, if you look at the teams that sign the two mega DP players,
00:24:14
Speaker
for every inner Miami who have the best player to ever live on their team. Um, you've got a Toronto FC or Chicago fire, um, that, you know, is just not getting their money's worth from those players. So, yeah, I mean, not to like, I have it in front of me, so I'll just kind of go through real quickly, like.
00:24:38
Speaker
Atlanta has Tiago or started. They actually don't even have all these players right now, but Atlanta had name. And then I only have two of these players, but they started the year with Omata and Giamakis. And then I don't even know who Stan Gregerson is, but apparently he's their third DP. Should I know? I probably should know who that is, but I don't. Well, isn't that that one guy? He's that one guy. Yeah, like he's probably good. Like, I don't know. Like, is that the is that like the Polish
00:25:08
Speaker
the defensive midfielder that they signed maybe that's who that is Norwegian yeah but he has a defensive midfielder yeah okay so that's maybe okay so that guy is apparently pretty good oh I do know this guy yeah okay played for Gordo
00:25:24
Speaker
But like, okay, so Austin had Sebastian, Drew C Emiliano, Rigoni, and then Alex Ring was filling a did like, okay, that's nothing. Charlotte. I'm not going to go through this whole thing, but you get the idea. Yeah. Abada, Capetti, not with the team. So Dursky, not with the team. You know, it's just like, there's not a lot of teams here that are.
00:25:48
Speaker
Chicago, Hugo Kuipers, obviously a big player, Shaqiri, he's on his way out, and then Gaston Jimenez, who I think is probably one of the biggest DP busts. But okay, Cincinnati, here's a team that knows what they're doing, right? Luciana Acosta, Aaron Bupenza, who is probably not with the team anymore, and Abina, no,
00:26:13
Speaker
I'm sure he's a good player. I can't tell you who he is off the top of my head, though. There's just not a lot of teams that have three high-priced DPs. I don't want to ascribe anything to Mario the Tank or anyone else, but I think that there was an era in MLS where you, because of the roster rules, because of the restrictions,
00:26:39
Speaker
You kind of needed three DPs to really be taken seriously. Right. And I think people- Because there was such a big gap between your DPs and everyone else. Right. And I think people have kind of anchored to that as the minimum expectation. And I think a lot of that is because at times in the past when the sounders were frustrating, it was because
00:27:00
Speaker
they didn't have a DP spot filled. And people said, you know, you got to sign somebody, it doesn't matter who, then they end up signing Nico Lodero because they waited. Then they end up signing Raul Ruideas because they waited, right? But there was that period of panic because they didn't have all three spots filled. And I just think the league has changed so much for, I think, for the better. The play has just gotten so much better since 2014 to 2015 because that money has spread around.
00:27:30
Speaker
But I'm willing to believe also that you hit a point where, okay, we've spread enough money around. Now let's put some more back into the front end of the rosters, but I just don't know that we're there yet. Yeah. Well, and just to kind of close out my thought, cause I'll talk about two other teams that are, I think good comparisons because this is sort of like where the Sounders should be aspiring to be, but Columbus spent big on Kucho Hernandez, spent big on Diogo Rossi. Then they have Darlington Nagby.
00:27:57
Speaker
uh, who is a good player, but he is not spent. He's not a super expensive player. LAFC only has two DPs. One of them is Danny Bwanga, obviously great. The other is Edward at Tuesta, who is a good player, but is not like.
00:28:13
Speaker
He's not necessarily the kind of big spending DP. One of the exceptions is the LA Galaxy. They got Ricky Puj, Gabriel Peck, and Joey Pansill. But that's like one of the only teams that's actually spending big on all three spots. And LAFC is about to add Jared. And I know people are frustrated about that. Is he not?
00:28:36
Speaker
I don't know. I didn't know if he was. I thought I assumed he wasn't, but maybe he is. If he's not, then they're pulling some girth bailshipping. But I just we'll see how that goes, I guess. I don't know. They also have Kai Kamara on a supple on their supplemental roster, which he just got to love. But anyway, I love. All right. This is from.
00:29:07
Speaker
nimbletti interested in your thoughts on g plus as a metric and reactions to the following the best 11 according to g plus according to folks with very limited minutes excluding folks very limited minutes
00:29:23
Speaker
Oh, this is on the Sounders. I was gonna say, what is this? There's still a lot of guys on the Sounders, but it's just from the Sounders. Okay, so it's Andy Thomas, Cody Baker, Jackson Reagan, Gomez Andrade, Alex Roldan, Jal Paolo, Josh Atencio, Paul Rothrock, Danny Leyva, Danny Masovsky, and Jordan Morris. And then, Georgie Menungu would be the impact offensive sub, which maybe speaks, if Menungu is that good at G+, he's played two games, guys.
00:29:53
Speaker
I would say that's very limited minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how he breaks in with the limited minutes, but then rolled. He says Christian Rodan and Rusnak are both lower than he'd expect. Obed Burgas, Nuhu and Leochu are pretty low. Ruigias is absolutely terrible. We've actually talked about that before. But anyway, yeah, what do you what do you make of that? What do you make of G plus? How do you feel about G?
00:30:21
Speaker
I am not... Do we explain what G Plus is? Do people know what G Plus is? I think that people... Goals added. I guess it's actually technically called goals added. I don't know why I called it G Plus.
00:30:36
Speaker
Is it fair to say that it is the soccer, soccer equivalent of like runs above replacement and baseball? Yeah, it's attempting. It is absolutely attempting to be that. Right. That's what it's trying to capture is that it's trying to synthesize everything that happens on the soccer pitch that you can quantify. And turning that into an all inclusive metric that theoretically
00:31:04
Speaker
explains what you do that helps teams score, and what you do that helps teams helps you keep other teams from scoring. And you end up with this goals added metric that supposed to
00:31:19
Speaker
account for all this stuff, and there is some intuitiveness to it. If you go into this stat, you'll see that there is some level of intuitiveness. There are players that we all recognize as being very good who are ranked very highly, but you also have a lot of players who, forwards, as an example, tend to be ranked really low in this metric.
00:31:49
Speaker
But go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's really useful context. I think that there goals added to me is a promising idea that I am not putting a lot of stock in at this point in time. I fully support the effort to try to get there.
00:32:14
Speaker
I just, I'm, you, there's nothing you can say or show me that will convince me that Alex Roldon is the best right back on this team. Uh, or that Danny Mysovsky is one of the best midfielders on this team. Right. And I just, I, I'm just not buying it. Um, and, and I think that.
00:32:37
Speaker
The whole idea of it to me, like, I think that, um, something like wins above replacement in baseball. You have all of these discrete events that makes it really easy to have a statistic like that. That is sort of an all up thing. Um, especially now that the defensive data is better, I would say goals added reminds me of something like range factor where there's just enough stuff that just does not pass the sniff test.
00:33:06
Speaker
for me to really put a whole lot of stock in it as anything definitive. I'm not saying it's useless. I'm not saying it doesn't have any value at all. There's just enough weird stuff there that makes me question putting too much stock into it.
00:33:22
Speaker
Yeah.
G+ Metric Evaluation
00:33:23
Speaker
So if I were picking the lineup, this isn't the lineup I would pick, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be playing Danny Musofsky yet on the wing. I probably would not be starting Paul Rothrock of all the, of all the other players. I think too, soccer is not an individual sport. It is a collective sport. And so.
00:33:44
Speaker
This lineup just isn't going to work, I don't think, more than anything, right? It does seem like goals added puts a lot of emphasis on midfield play. It's almost like it's correcting for not wanting to weight goals and assist too heavily or goal contributions too heavily, maybe.
00:34:03
Speaker
I don't know. I, I don't think a team with Rothrock and Misovsky on the wings and Leyva at the 10 and Alex rolled on it right back is gonna set the league on fire, I guess. Yeah. At the same time, I do think, I do think Andy Thomas has been the best goalkeeper on the team and some of the other, you know, some of the other selections are, I think pretty, pretty clear as well. So. Yeah. Yeah. Um.
00:34:30
Speaker
I don't have much more to add to that. I think it's an interesting stat. I think there's things that it sometimes highlights that are worth highlighting. But at the same time, and like I will say, so this is the top of the of the list. I'll just read the top 10. Luciano Acosta, reigning MVP. Fair enough. Christian Benton techie. Not surprising. Danny Bewonga, Ricky pooge.
00:34:57
Speaker
Bernadeschi, Deski, Messi is, you know, like the six best player by goals added, despite playing, you know, not that many minutes. So that's probably, you know, give you an, like, I'm embarrassed. I don't know who Luca Oriana is. He's a Cincinnati fullback, but he's ranked very highly. Cuccio Hernandez, Andres Gomez, Almada. I mean, that's, that's a pretty solid,
00:35:24
Speaker
top 10. So I'm not gonna say that it's a worthless stat, but I don't know. I'm definitely skeptical of this to some degree, but what are you gonna do? It's not crazy. It's not the craziest. No, it's not. It's got promise. It's got promise.
00:35:50
Speaker
All right, next one is from another, another good name here flock of seagulls. Uh, can you explain the quote attacking phase of play unquote criteria for the AR review? As I understand it, the AR can only check for fouls in the buildup or attacking phase prior to your goal, regardless of whether or not Russ next touch was a handball. Was this why Morris is winning goal against Dallas stood because a Dallas player touched the ball before Obed won it back and made that gorgeous pass.
00:36:15
Speaker
You know, this would have been a great question to for me as the pool reporters to submit. But I was a little busy and that that ended up being effectively the last play of the game made it tough to get that question in because the reality is we don't know why.
00:36:36
Speaker
that play was not reviewed. It might have been that the AR looked at it and said, it doesn't look like a clear and obvious error. Albert Rosenach didn't handle it or it's not obvious enough that he handled it and we're not going to review it because of that. But it's just as equally possible.
00:36:55
Speaker
that they, because the ball, because Dallas got possession of the ball between Rusnak's touch and Obed Vargas's pass, that they didn't even consider it part of the attacking phase and so therefore was not reviewable. So we don't have a good answer there. My gut tells me that
00:37:18
Speaker
it wasn't reviewable. Because the Dallas player didn't just touch the ball, he possessed the ball and he passed it. Like to me that changes the attacking that makes it no longer part of the attacking pace. And so my assumption is that that was not reviewable. I suppose I could have maybe this was addressed on
00:37:43
Speaker
on instant replay. I didn't watch it last week. Maybe I should have done that in preparation for this. But yeah, that's my assumption. Yeah. Makes sense to me. Yeah. This is from Scott True Pack. He says, given the level of player that we are likely to get in the transfer window, just how much would it actually improve our best 11 or even our best 15? If we go based on the amount of caps face the sounders currently have,
00:38:12
Speaker
what they could add like a 500 ish thousand dollar player somewhere 500 to 800,000 something like that. So, uh, I don't know. I mean, it depends. Can you upgrade on Leo chew for that? Maybe.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, like, I don't know, a player that I this is kind of came out of a conversation that we had on Discord, where I sort of threw out the name Johnny Russell, not because I have any great insight into the sounders pursuit of
Mid-Season Signings and Impact
00:38:45
Speaker
Johnny Russell. But this was a kind of player who I look at and say, I could see Kansas City agreeing to part ways with Russell for a marginal return.
00:38:58
Speaker
He doesn't take up a designated player spot. He's making about a million dollars this year. You could figure out a way to fit him into the cap if Kansas City's willing to keep some of his salary on their books. And he's a player who, I think he's got three goals and two assists, something like that. So he's not exactly lighting it up, but that's why he's available. And I don't know, do you think a Johnny, let's just use him as an example. Does Johnny Russell to you raise the sounders level? No, not at all.
00:39:28
Speaker
Not to me. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's fair. That said, I really do. I mean this entirely sincerely. I know in the past I have argued against making a signing for the sake of assigning. I do think it's different right now. Yeah. I for sure agree with that. Yeah. And I, and I, and it's like, if you find, if you tell me Johnny Russell is the best player that sounders can get, I'm willing to accept that.
00:39:54
Speaker
I don't love that move, but I do think that's better than literally doing nothing because I think doing nothing cannot be seen as a realistic option for this team. I think part of the front office's job is to inspire fan interest and inspire players to have to compete better.
00:40:17
Speaker
And I think if you just stand pat and just say, look, we don't have enough money to do what we want to do. So we're just going to do nothing. I think you risk just being just not like failing the basic level of like giving your fans and your teammate your players some like tangible evidence that you are trying to improve the roster.
00:40:43
Speaker
I 100% agree with all of that. However, if the best player you can get in the summer transfer window with a bunch of guys out of contract is Johnny Russell, what are you doing? I think about a player like Gustav Svensson, who was a free agent mid-season signing, if I recall correctly.
00:41:07
Speaker
I think he was in the off season, but he was a free agent and yeah, because like, because Sweden has the similar. Oh, right, right, right. Um, but I, I would imagine a player of that caliber, like he was a great find and I think undervalued from the start. But if you can get a, you know, a winger who's 80% of that level.
00:41:33
Speaker
I think that that's a pretty, pretty big upgrade from what the Sounders have right now. I mean, he's going to end up taking Paul Rothrock's minutes, most likely, if that's the guy you signed. So yeah, I mean, I think if they've got their eyes on guys, if they've been doing their due diligence, scouting free agents and things like that, then I think that there are guys that could make a decent impact on the first team.
00:42:02
Speaker
I think if they're in a situation where they're going to have to do something within the league.
00:42:08
Speaker
I think the advantage of signing a guy like Johnny Russell is he is a veteran who's going to help shake up the locker room and compete in training and all that stuff. And that stuff is less tangible, but I think important. And I agree with you that they have to do something, but if they end up having to fill that spot with somebody in the league, unless they give up a lot of value going the other way, um, I think it's probably going to be more of a vibes type addition than on the field.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't, I think there's hope that they can upgrade, I guess to get to the root of the question. I do think there's reasonable hope that they can upgrade their top 15. I, given the current limitations, my expectations are not that they're going to improve. They're not going to bring in someone who's an automatic starter. Let's put it that way. Yeah. And partly because if they're healthy, I, I think there's reason to think that
00:43:04
Speaker
Like, that would have to be a really good player. But I don't think that's the standard they should be holding themselves to. I don't think they should sit there and say, if we don't feel like we can sign a starter, we're not going to sign someone. I just think that's a complete failure. Like, it's just a total capitulation to the... Like, you can't... I just don't think you can do it. You're not even saving money. It's not your money.
00:43:26
Speaker
Right, exactly. Exactly. It's free real estate, man. You got to do something with it. I think that that is the argument in favor of if it comes down to it doing something like trading for Johnny Russell or whatever. Don't let that money go to waste.
00:43:48
Speaker
Who was the player they signed in 2013? Adam Moffat. Adam Moffat, yeah. You called, if I remember correctly, you called Johnny Russell and Adam Moffat ass signing. Yeah. I mean, he's probably better than Adam Moffat was.
00:44:04
Speaker
He's definitely better than Adam Moffat was, but I can see there is a vague similarity in the, like Adam Moffat was to 2013, what maybe Johnny Russell is to. They also, I had forgotten they had to give up Cervando Carrasco to get him. They did. That ended up being a really bad move. Yeah. I mean, you know, Cervando Carrasco didn't go on to like an all-star career, but he was a sort of useful player. Really bad trade.
00:44:34
Speaker
All right. Uh, next one is from Bill Jones. TRPT is Pedro de la Vega, the new blaze Kufo, or are we eventually going to see this guy play a reasonable quantity of minutes in rave green?
De La Vega's Contributions
00:44:44
Speaker
If he was starting most games, would we still be talking about needing another attacker? I mean, I don't, I don't think he's in any danger of being the next blaze Kufo blaze Kufo was effectively playing out his last contract. I don't think like worst case scenario, my expectation is that de la Vega were to
00:45:03
Speaker
come back next year and be a legitimate player. But this was admittedly submitted before the last game. And so we hadn't actually seen De La Vega take the field again. Who knows how many games he ends up playing. My expectation is De La Vega
00:45:22
Speaker
at this point is going to be like ramp up slowly. And hopefully he's starting games on a regular, you know, like he's a starter by the league's cup is what my expectation would be. Maybe he starts that LAFC game. That's that's before the last game before the league's cup. I think that's a reasonable hope. And, you know, he didn't exactly blow the doors off.
00:45:43
Speaker
in the 15 minutes that he played against the Chicago Fire. But you can see like even when he's not playing well, he's still doing stuff that you can like, right? Like he put the fire under a lot of pressure, even though he wasn't clean. You know, he had this great move that I actually I wrote a story about today.
00:46:03
Speaker
or I used as a as an anecdote in the story I wrote today about how he he spun his defender and instead of taking it to the corner and just kind of wasting time he took it into the box owners were winning I think you could have like I've watched that play now 10 times I still think it's probably a penalty yeah
00:46:23
Speaker
There's not a great angle of it on the broadcast, so I can't say for certain, but it's like, I appreciate the mindset that goes into that. Similarly, like the last play of the game, you know, he, Christian Roldan's driving into the box and he makes himself available. Roldan shoots. He crashes the far post.
00:46:40
Speaker
inches away from poking in the rebound but the defender gets there first like I love the instincts that he's showing I love the aggressiveness he is a downhill player he is gonna attack he's gonna you know he's got seven successful dribbles in like a hundred and
00:46:57
Speaker
20 minutes. That's an astounding rate. That's double the rate, I think, of anyone else on the Sounders. He's going to make stuff happen. I'm reasonably optimistic that we'll see enough of him this year that it will feel like
00:47:17
Speaker
It wasn't a completely wasted sign. Yeah. He, to me, um, he's not exactly analogous to Raul Rui Diaz or Nico Cladero when they came in. Both because he came in at the beginning of the season and it's just been hurt, but also he's at a different phase in his career. And I don't think having that level of expectation is healthy, but he seems to be playing in a similar way where he understands that there's a lot of pressure on him to.
00:47:43
Speaker
be a step, be a cut above, right? And to elevate the level of the team. And he seems to be extremely willing to take on that
Preference for Winning the Open Cup
00:47:51
Speaker
challenge. Like he doesn't seem too good for that pressure, which I think is a really positive sign.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, this is from Sounders Monkey. It's a good one for you. Would you rather win the League's Cup or the Open Cup? I'm really glad this one came to me. Open Cup and it's not even close. Not even a question for me. I'm sure that the League's Cup is more financially beneficial and I'm sure
00:48:15
Speaker
There are all sorts of arguments to be made in its favor, and I'm not going to tell anybody they're wrong for being convinced by any of them, but the League's Cup is nothing to me. Open Cup all the way. I'll go one step farther. If the Sounders winning Open Cup meant that the Sounders failed to advance out of their group in League's Cup, I would take that trade.
00:48:43
Speaker
every day and twice on Sunday. Absolutely. I would so much rather... It is a false choice because doing well in Open Cup does not mean you don't have to... League's Cup is... The way they've structured it is you don't really sacrifice anything other than playing a few extra games to be in League's Cup. It's not concurrent with the league, it's not concurrent with Open Cup. It's not like there's a direct trade-off.
00:49:13
Speaker
I think I'll care about League's Cup if the Sounders get to the semifinals and a trophy is on the line. Sure, I'd like to win trophies. It's a lot of fun. But until they get deep into this tournament, I don't really care about it.
00:49:30
Speaker
And that said, they should, they should get out of the, their group. They're in a group in case you didn't remember this, they're in a group with Minnesota United, who is not looking so hot these days. And Niekaksa, who is not a very good league at Mackey's team. So they should get out of it. But I would take that, that said, I would say like, if I can, I want the open cup more than.
00:49:50
Speaker
Like I would sacrifice some playoff positioning even for open cup. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder too, if there's really a case to be made that not playing more games would be good for the team. But I think all that depends on how the season is going, right? Like if they go into league's cup hot, it would kind of suck if they, you know.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah, bomb out. Yeah, of course. Like, I want, I mean, I wouldn't mind them doing well in Link's Cup, but if you're asking me to choose between the Open Cup and Link's Cup, that's a no-brainer. Next one is from Jack Smith. What happened to the March to the match? There used to
March to the Match Event Changes
00:50:26
Speaker
be entertainment, music, and giveaways trying to motivate the fans. Now it's dead. Just a few March. We used to hang out there before every game.
00:50:33
Speaker
Uh, you know, I've been wondering about this. I, I didn't know that the March to the match had been sort of diminished. Um, I suspected that that was the case. I, I, I think they still, like, I know I saw that they did it for the 50th anniversary match because Kellen Roe and, uh, and Eric Freiburg and. I think Brad Evans were there carrying trophies, but I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
00:51:03
Speaker
I haven't walked, I used to walk through there a lot on the way to the game. Uh, I haven't done that in a while. So yeah, I don't, I guess it's something I can look into, but you know, it's been, it's the, the March is a, is a fraught event in some ways because it was obviously started by ECS and it was their thing. And then when.
00:51:29
Speaker
When the Sounders came into MLS, they kind of latched onto it and sort of made it their thing. And then it's sort of been this push and pull with ECS ever since then. And, you know, and so I think the taunt essentially was that the Sounders would sort of do a rally, you know, sort of rally before the game, but then essentially allow ECS to lead the March.
Improving Game Day Experience
00:51:54
Speaker
And it just seems like I would imagine maybe ECS is
00:52:00
Speaker
passion for leading the March has gone down. I don't know. I can't really speak to it that much because I haven't seen it with my own eyes and I don't have a good answer. I will say the March, as far as I know, there is some additional context. This is an okay example of in the Discord, in the questions thread, we normally don't want people to chime in, but I think this is useful context.
00:52:20
Speaker
Mindy says that ECS is still running the March. That's been my experience as well. I still see the March happen. Okay. Now, I haven't been to every game or even a ton of games this year, but I've been to several and the March has happened before every game. But it's definitely not what it was, right? It seems pretty exclusively an ECS thing at this point, which I think does sort of speak to the club just
00:52:50
Speaker
not really having any involvement in doing anything pretty much. Right, so it does sound like the the sounders did sort of cut back on their pre-March festivities. Yeah, and I think that the two just sort of got
00:53:10
Speaker
And I think intentionally probably on the part of the club sort of conflated where it was like, yeah, we do stuff before the March and before the game. And that's also the March as part of that, even though officially it wasn't, but kind of, um, yeah. And, uh, and yeah, I just, we've talked about this a bunch. It's a bummer. I don't want to talk about it again, but, uh,
00:53:32
Speaker
It sucks how much less exciting game day seems than it used to. And I think this is another example. The March is still cool to watch. I mean, it's once it's underway, it's not as big as it was maybe at its biggest, but it's still the same thing, but. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know, I guess maybe in some ways it's.
00:53:53
Speaker
You could make an argument, I suppose that it, and I don't know, we're going to get too deep into this if we want to, but I suppose there's an argument to be made that it's better in a organic way for the club to not
00:54:11
Speaker
be so involved in it, because then it allows ECS it to be an ECS thing. And it's an organic thing. And if, you know, it's popular as ECS wants to, you know, as ECS members want to make it, it's less inclusive that way, it feels less like a big event that way. But I don't know, I do think that the sounders sort of at some point need to recapture a
00:54:35
Speaker
the pump and the event. It used to feel like a big event whenever the sounders play and it doesn't feel that way anymore. And I think the sounders probably need to figure out a way to find the right balance there. And it doesn't feel like they're finding that right now. It definitely feels like a lot of stuff since the pandemic where stuff just never came back as good as it was.
00:55:00
Speaker
And people, whether it was just complacency or budget cuts or whatever it was, stuff just sucks a little more than it used to. I think that's another example of that.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, which is not an excuse. Uh, I'm, I'm really sick of it. Uh, and I wish people would put some more effort into things again. Anyway. Uh, last one of the night is from Cascadian Con Vic.
Impact of 5-sub Rule on Strategy
00:55:22
Speaker
Uh, one through line with Rudy as new who and choose anger seems to be over substitutions or not starting, but I wonder if some of this really comes back to the change to five subs per game. You're likely not switching keeper slash center backs and maybe keeping one sub in your pocket for injuries, but that means four out of eight upfield players will get subbed fully 50%.
00:55:41
Speaker
And coaches also have a lot more certainty that they'll be able to sub on a set of players for a planned purpose rather than just to backfill an emergency. Do players need to change their mentality to recognize that being subbed or being put in at 60 minutes might mean something different now than it did three years ago with the old rule?
00:55:57
Speaker
I think I think this is a good observation and I would be curious to know if there is sort of a general like I don't know how you would measure this but it would be curious to know if there is sort of this general sense that players are there are there must be less there must be fewer 90 minute players than there used to be because there's more subs like it makes there's that's just a math thing but no I don't I don't I don't know if it's on players to readjust their desire to play 90 minutes though
00:56:27
Speaker
You know, I, I can understand like this explains why there are more subs. It doesn't necessarily like no player is going to say like, Oh, that's a great point. Like I used to be unsubbable because we only had three subs, but now I am subbable because we have forced because we have two extra subs, right? No professional athlete is going to take that. And I think sometimes as fans, especially
00:56:55
Speaker
And as media members, as people that observe these things, I think it's uncomfortable when players get mad when, you know, when we see Leo Chiu coming off the field and he's, he's, he's like all up in his feelings and he's, he's, he's yelling and he's upset. It's not easy to watch, but on some level, we just have to
00:57:21
Speaker
hope that the coaches can manage that because that's their job. Yeah. And yeah, you can, you can try to logic Leo Chu into understanding that when we have five subs, it's we would be dumb not to use them. And you're going to be one of the guys that comes off. Sorry, Leo. Right.
00:57:41
Speaker
But I also want Leo Chiu to want to play 90 minutes. I want Raul Rui Diaz to want to start. I want Nuhu to believe that he is a 90 minute player. I think that's what we want from players. And yeah, it's going to be uncomfortable and there's going to be fights.
00:57:59
Speaker
But like, good teams figure that out. And if the Sounders are a good team, if Brian Schmincher is a good coach, he's going to figure out how to manage this thing. And if he's not, it's going to blow up. And there's no, we can't logic them and logic it into working, right? Yeah. So I think it's honestly, I think I guess that's my way of saying I think it's more on fans to calibrate our
00:58:28
Speaker
our tolerance for this stuff. And if you really don't like it, that like, I don't blame you for not wanting to see your players upset and to see them fighting. But I think you also have to sort of understand that that's kind of the, that's the deal. Yeah. It's the nature of the beast. For sure. But, um, anyway, I thought it was a good question. Yeah. And thanks to everyone who submitted these, just as a reminder, uh, we take these questions over discord.
00:58:58
Speaker
We think we've built a really great community over there. It keeps growing and growing and we keep bringing more and more people and we keep adapting and finding new ways to do things. And if you are in our Discord community and you have suggestions for things that we could be doing better there, share them. But we also love getting your questions. This was, you know, we got a lot of them today. So I feel like that's a good sign. All that said,
00:59:26
Speaker
I guess we should be getting out of here. Thank you, of course, to our subscribers, especially those of you that are in the Discord. This has been a lot of fun. I'm Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lick It. This is No Study At This, and we will catch you next time.
01:00:42
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!