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214: Double Murder in Peru
65 Plays12 days ago
Welcome back for part 2 of our Peruvian true crime episode, this weeks segment features a complex case involving the deaths of 2 people, each of their stories cannot be told without the other.
Sebastian Woodroffe had spent much of his life searching for spiritualism before he found deep connection with Indigenous culture and their plant based medicines. He spent years watching Indigenous healers and learning more about himself by ingesting ayahuasca, he now hoped to help his family members as well.
Maestro Olivia Arevalo Lomas was loved by her community, a highly respected and recognized shaman in the Peruvian Amazon, her family hosted many ayahuasca retreats in Peru and had been helping Sebastian on his journey.
Things take a drastic turn after their relationship turns sour and a public confrontation leads to both of their deaths. Follow along as we discuss what happens when mob mentality takes over, and what does it truly mean to get justice for the murder of a loved one?
The world is a very complex place, not everything, and especially not true crime, is always black or white, or as simple as good guy and bad guy. As we said in the ep, our hearts are with both of the victims families.
Thanks for listening, we love you all and please take care of yourselves. Until next time keep it cryptic!
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Transcript
Cassie's Return
00:00:01
Speaker
We're back! Hello.
00:00:23
Speaker
and
00:00:27
Speaker
and and Cassie's back, back again. He's back of the box now. Cece's
00:00:37
Speaker
Telefriend. ah How do we... Oh no. I'm already foreseeing editing out the Gordo mouthing off.
00:00:54
Speaker
Oh my god.
00:00:57
Speaker
Anyway. Anyway.
Experiences with Nature Documentaries
00:01:00
Speaker
these little cries remind me we were just, Pat was like, oh, i'm remember this old movie, like, The Bear. but it's so but least it's like a real bear and that little bear cub and stuff. And it had these little cries that were like, ah!
00:01:13
Speaker
And I was like, oh, it sounds so pathetic. And I was like, oh my God. It's like when you're like, Watching a nature documentary.
00:01:25
Speaker
This is great until, oh no now somebody's got to get eaten and this sucks again. You're i feel're like, I was rooting for both of you. And you're like, one of them's about to eat the other one. No.
00:01:37
Speaker
Especially the ones where the polar bears are like polar bearing. And I'm like, I love you, but then you're going to go on and try to eat a seal. And then I'm going to have to hate you again. oh man. Yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, be warned that that movie has some bear it bare violence. I was like, what is happening?
Challenges in Podcast Scheduling
00:02:03
Speaker
Anyway, we're back to record on a Sunday. Yeah, we don't normally record on Sundays. ah Yeah, recording's been all over the place and then posting's been kind of a little bit wonky too. I've just been like, we we get it out and do it when we can and then like this one.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, your your case was quite extensive and like then so I was like, I need more time with my notes and things are complex and it's like, oh my goodness.
Episode Editing and Length Decisions
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
shit happens and then you're like oh no it's a part two or whatever yeah and I think it's always better to um like take more time to do an episode and release it than it is to like rush through it I I know like with my case there's a lot of stuff that I cut out um I kept everything that was like pretty important but there was like a lot of stuff for like the trial and like all that kind of stuff that I left out. Um, but that was more so not related to the victim or so like, right.
00:03:26
Speaker
you talk for the perpetrator. yeah And that kind of stuff. So it was like, I don't think we need to dwell on that unless somebody wants to do like a deeper dive on the case and read more about it themselves.
00:03:39
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Mine was already like an hour and a half.
00:03:45
Speaker
ah Yeah, I don't think i really had to cut much or did cut much. Oh, perfect.
Episode Creation Process
00:03:53
Speaker
These days we're kind of like, okay, let's see if we said something at the beginning that was, you know, just us chatting or whatever and then...
00:04:00
Speaker
And then for the most part, I could just, you know, kind of look through and skim through and it's like oh yeah, its just us talking. oh Yeah. Professionals that we are. No, but oh yeah Mine also had some like layers and things.
00:04:18
Speaker
So yeah, super but we're still counting this one. Like I still counted as the part of the same episode because it's still the Peru true crime episode. And we know what we're covering next time and we'll let you guys know at the end. So you'll have to stick around.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah. We'll keep you on your toes. You never know what's going to happen.
Evolution of Texting Language
00:04:42
Speaker
was like, by then, Kelsey will probably remember what we're covering next.
00:04:46
Speaker
I won't. I don't have the list in front of me. Oh, my good old handy dandy notebook. That's what I'm like. Who is it? I think I might know, but.
00:04:59
Speaker
I don't want to say anything in case I'm wrong. So, so yeah, I guess we'll. I'm excited. I'm ready.
00:05:11
Speaker
I mean.
00:05:15
Speaker
I'm sad. I'm seated. Tangents. what are they What are the kids saying nowadays? I'm seated. I'm sad. i don't know. might Something like that.
00:05:27
Speaker
I don't know. I have to try and translate Rain's text. So it's full of a lot of acronyms.
00:05:41
Speaker
I was like, wait, just to confirm, OFC just means of course, right? Because for a while I was like, if all the letters mean something, then it means of fucking course, right? And both would fit. So when I'd see it like on the internet, I'd be like, I can't really tell.
00:05:55
Speaker
yeah So, no, it's, I believe it's safe for work because I, ah yeah. It's a drain. Oh, I did see someone use it in the work chat. So that makes sense.
00:06:07
Speaker
ah I used to have one of those posters that had all like the texting lingo, but it was like back in the time of T9 word. yeah.
00:06:19
Speaker
Oh, wow. It made more sense to abbreviate because, you know, you were having to a push the same button multiple times to get to each letter. So it made sense to shorten it. You didn't have a full keyboard to utilize when sending a message. So it had all these abbreviations and it started with the shortest ones. And then some of them were just really crazy. And I was like, I've never seen somebody who that. But then they just kept getting longer and longer. so by the end, they were like, sometimes like 15 letters long, and it would have like this crazy thing. So I feel like the first half of the poster was relevant. And then the second half, they're just like, this would be hilarious to put on here or something.
00:07:06
Speaker
So I was like, I've never seen anybody use these. It'd
Ethical True Crime Research
00:07:11
Speaker
be crazy. no. almost defeats the purpose but I feel like we've almost come back around to that because you have some really long ones like the the acronym that's well it ironically it literally stands for if you know you know I why whatever it's got all those k's in it and you're like do we really have to abbreviate ah whole weird phrase yeah And why do we have to say it's so so pointless to say something like, if you know, you know, well, obviously. And if we don't, we don't. You know, I was like, shut up.
00:07:47
Speaker
and I also don't think I've ever like text somebody that. So no, you see it more like I feel like, yeah, it's kind of like in hashtags and those kind of.
00:07:59
Speaker
places yeah yeah for sure yeah well so true crime again we go uh but this one did catch my eye i was like you know what you've got google you're like searching for you know true crime cases or like yeah like whatever, Peru, you have to put like cases or stories or like something
Crafting True Crime Titles
00:08:28
Speaker
in there. So you don't just get like, here are some stats. Yes. Statistics and crime reports.
00:08:37
Speaker
Right. But you're trying not to make it sound something totally disrespectful, like craziest, kookiest murder. You know what I mean? Like you're trying to like, you just ah get some good results. So yeah, you know how it goes. And there was, I think there was one that was like,
00:08:54
Speaker
the Perus most wanted something or other. And I was like, okay. But that was YouTube video. And so scrolled past. Yeah. I've never thought to actually type that in but that's probably no idea a pretty, yeah.
00:09:15
Speaker
No, i I didn't. I didn't do that. I i was like, eh, I could do that. Or, and then I scrolled further down and then there was one that had a more enticing title to me a different article so that's a case for another day i don't know okay yeah i was like ah you're just like some extortionist or something i don't know here i'm gonna try and move my mic just gonna try and do everything because we're always was saying to kelsey i know we're kind of sound
00:09:51
Speaker
quiet that little equipment compared to some
Audio Equipment Considerations
00:09:56
Speaker
podcasts. So let us know and we'll try and upgrade.
00:10:02
Speaker
would love to upgrade our equipment. Um, any who's it, I had never heard of this. And as it so happens, it ended up involving, uh, a ah man born in Canada. So I was gonna cover ah The story of Sebastian Woodruff.
00:10:24
Speaker
pretty sure that's how you say it. Oh, okay. Does it ring any bells? No.
00:10:35
Speaker
It didn't to me either. And it was one of those where like, yeah, when you go looking for sources, a lot of them are just like in in petty crimes and stuff. It's like Oh, from the day it happened, from the week it happened. And then it's really sometimes hard to find a detailed update. Follow up.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah. But eventually I did find another, like an article that I was like, Oh, a CBC article. I thought I had read that one already. And then no, that one was giving me all the more context. So shout out Canadian Broadcasting Company as well. But anyway,
00:11:16
Speaker
It does focus a lot on some problems say within Peru. So that's good because that's the place we were trying to highlight, obviously. Anyway, that's all. And to get into it so yes, I might reference to an article because a portion of my notes was not pulling up properly.
00:11:41
Speaker
i blame technology. So, yeah, let's get into it. to it Um, so Sebastian Woodruff was born in, um, oh, sorry. He was living in BC, but he was born in a ah different part of Canada in October of 76.
00:12:01
Speaker
Um, but I think he was born in like Ontario. Anyway, already I'm like annoyed at myself. Okay. But uh, this like story doesn't get into until ah quite a bit later but there is some uh background on him that I thought was helpful um about how like he kind of lived his life and because it is kind of funny because I was like oh he lives in on Vancouver Island um which you know west coast can it can be known for like some very like expensive yeah like it's very expensive to buy real estate there but like you can also kind of get this like
00:12:48
Speaker
crunchy sort of hippie, eco-conscious type of stereotype of a person, I guess. yeah so there one his stepbrother, Richard Dockrell, described him as like saying he had a strong philosophy that went against mainstream lifestyle. He opposed consumerism, materialism, and technology.
00:13:12
Speaker
was like, okay. And like, he definitely was kind of more the working odd jobs type of person than like a highly driven okay career.
00:13:26
Speaker
Ambitious, like I'm ambitious in this career or whatever. Like he worked on a sea urchin diving boat. And I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. I didn't know that.
00:13:37
Speaker
Sounds like something Gordon Ramsay. did um like he goes all these different places and he's like yeah and then we're gonna go dive for some merchants and then i'm gonna cook some up and you're gonna cook some up and we're gonna see if who likes who's better and i'm like you're crazy gordon sounds so weird
00:13:53
Speaker
right but like fancy restaurants yeah i guess so eat all kinds of sea stuff yeah it's true um his father, Gary Woodruff said he was kind and generous. He would give you the search shirt off his back, his last dollar. If you needed help, he'd always be there for you.
00:14:15
Speaker
Um, and, uh, yeah, only the, from what I read, the CBC article mentioned that he had a son in his early thirties, uh, to which she co-parented with, uh, you know, the mother after they split up and he enjoyed like,
00:14:33
Speaker
taking him on these all these outdoorsy type of trips. They would go to Comox. Nice. Which I think is on the mainland. I don't know. Whatever. i've I know it's in BC. I think I've only been been on Vancouver Island maybe twice in my life.
00:14:53
Speaker
Just like... Yeah. Yeah, it's not like the big... Like Vancouver Island is just Victorian. There's like maybe one other midsize city. i get Yeah. yeah I can't really recall, but it's beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. um Yeah. They'd go to Comox, like I think camping, but they definitely said they were swimming in the Puntledge river and he loved teaching him about plants and they went foraging for mushrooms. So he was really into like herbology and kind getting into plants and stuff.
00:15:32
Speaker
Ask my BC boy. Pat's from mainland BC.
00:15:39
Speaker
So ah he also started getting into, like as an adult, into indigenous culture, everything would say, and kind of like attending some of the, like there was an annual Sundance ceremony, it was called, practiced by some indigenous peoples of the North American Plains. Oh, okay.
00:16:00
Speaker
I think I'd heard of that. I haven't. If not that, then Sundance is definitely a film festival or something like that too. Cause it's like, I'm like, I've heard the word Sundance. um But like this one, it's the ceremony involves ah the person first fasting, praying.
00:16:19
Speaker
and then there's a, think I tried to write physically, but it looks like I spelled it more like psychically. Nevermind. Physically like sacrifice of one's body. yeah,
00:16:31
Speaker
in a kind of symbolic way where they like do this kind of piercing of the skin and hanging of oneself off of like the side of a tree and stuff. And that was like, that sounds pretty intense. I've never heard of that before.
00:16:47
Speaker
i can't say I've heard that that's specific practice. Yeah. I'm not sure, but, um, yeah, sounds rough. You gotta to be like really into it. Wow.
00:17:01
Speaker
I know they do, like... I would say, so... Yeah, there's a lot of different, like, meals and dances and, like, probably but know more about that and, like, traditional clothing and all those kind of things than I've heard about.
00:17:23
Speaker
Like, yeah, that kind of stuff. That's different.
00:17:29
Speaker
I know. you I think you see more of, like, the traditional dances and that kind of stuff, which I always enjoy that. There's a guy that would come up on my tech talk and a few of them and they'd be like, Ooh, look, they're all in there like ceremonial stuff. And it's really cool.
00:17:48
Speaker
Um, but, uh, some people described it in a less, pleasant manner i believe this was his former co-worker possibly from the boat uh mike kelly sort of an acquaintance said that he was one of those white kids searching for any kind of spiritual connection he could find i just take that as you will with grain of salt ah i was like is he a white kid is he or is he just white passing but has like indigenous family uh do we know
00:18:24
Speaker
I can't believe he's Caucasian. Yeah, he looks. But then, yeah, it could be, you know what I mean? I couldn't know if maybe he was, it didn't say he had any native heritage. Yeah, it's hard.
00:18:40
Speaker
It's hard to know. It's like, even in my family, like my lord dad's cousin, like um their family was and everything.
00:18:54
Speaker
So I'm sure like but ah a certain percentage and like... you're biracial. Yeah, it's hard to tell. But it's just, yeah, it's hard to know. And then with like everything that's gone a lot of records, I'm sure like disappeared and all that kind of stuff. So...
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah, I don't actually know on that account, but... Either way, it's he seemed to bring him some comfort. And so, don't know. This was the only person that kind of really said anything bad about it so far. I think a lot of people like you learning.
00:19:41
Speaker
Like, I enjoy learning about different cultures and practices and everything. and i We're, like, living on their land. I feel like as long as you... are doing it respectfully and from a place of like empathy and like openness learning and everything that that's really important.
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think if at any point anything starts to feel really cringy, then you're like, Hmm, maybe I am adventuring into the, cultural appropriation territory. Yeah, play by ear. Yeah, you have to be willing that if somebody tells you that you like crossed the line or shouldn't participate in an aspect of it or anything, then you have to respect that, obviously. yeah,
00:20:41
Speaker
but yeah I think empathy and yeah just wanting to learn more about the world and different people and what makes us like different but not being a bad way I think that's always good think it's nice oh no I think you know exactly you can tell exactly where this is kind of going um because you're like were yeah kind of hitting on some Gordo has pinned my arm arm he's laying I'm trapped help me
00:21:17
Speaker
Fenrir's trying to shed the enough fur to make a small shih tzu i got to uh it's just like i gotta brush gordo again gotta yeah i did it a couple days ago but yeah you need another good brushing oh yeah
00:21:37
Speaker
yeah my man's got a matted butt um yeah And okay. So ah then his brother-in-law or it's, it's, it's said Steve elli Ellis, ex-brother-in-law. So don't know.
00:21:59
Speaker
It's complicated. No, I don't know. But he had told him about his life, life-changing experience with ayahuasca when he experimented with it.
00:22:11
Speaker
Okay. And he was like, cool, bro. i wast I'm into quantum theory and all this stuff. And it was like mind opening. And I'm sure. don't know. That one I have heard I feel like it's very. ah
00:22:29
Speaker
It's talked about. Yeah. And it's used in different like movies and TV shows. I don't want to say it's like. Yeah. Like a stereotypical. Yeah.
00:22:41
Speaker
scene if you're gonna feature indigenous people um in a show that or a movie that isn't yeah like actually about like indigenous people as the main focal point it's very much like oh let's drink this and now we're gonna hallucinate in a hut and wo somebody's gonna communicate with me from ancestral plane yeah certain like celebrities talking about it like oh so trendy or whatever like not that they say that but like basically that's what i feel like it almost comes down to sometimes where we're like yeah let us try or i don't know yeah you know but um so yeah
00:23:30
Speaker
That got him curious. So then in 2013, Sebastian was ready to embark on his own spiritual journey and hoping to find sort of enlightenment as well, if he could. And he also ah felt strongly about helping others.
00:23:50
Speaker
Um, find healing. okay And I do recall that it said he had a, a family member, a relative that struggled with, um, like alcohol addiction, I believe. And I think that hit him pretty hard. So I think a lot of it had to do with, you know, so that this is like maybe me now why he feels like this is kind of maybe his calling or something, you know?
00:24:15
Speaker
Um,
00:24:17
Speaker
So definitely that was, I think, important in his life. And then he he began a crowdfunding campaign on a website to raise money. He said he was going to go down to South America and to see a special plant healer, ah ah sort of a shaman, they sometimes call it.
00:24:39
Speaker
And I also should have looked up the pronunciation. You know, it looks pretty straightforward. I think it's Shipibo people. It's like Shipibo.
00:24:53
Speaker
Shipibo. I'm sorry. I'm not sure. I'm not as familiar. Indigenous to Peru. I'm not as familiar as like, um yeah, with like South American or even, um yeah, like different indigenous groups in the U.S.,
00:25:12
Speaker
just not as familiar with the names because they just don't hear them as often oh yeah no i'd never heard it um can i have my arm back just to okay so phonetically they spell it Shipibo. Okay. okay Shipibo people.
00:25:37
Speaker
Come on. It looks like the lady from my story. Shipibo. And okay. He was supposed to go with this campaign money for a three month training session with a man, he said came from a long line of healers going back into the mists of time.
00:25:55
Speaker
So that was part of this post and or the campaign whatever. His goal was $10,000 for expenses and cetera.
00:26:07
Speaker
And he reached ah almost a quarter of it, $2,261. And then he said, kind of like, fuck it. I'm just going to go. Fair. Gordo, you're going to knock over the mic. We already did this once.
00:26:19
Speaker
Okay. You're good. Just got not be here like this.
00:26:26
Speaker
its just Don't be bad luck. We've had enough Gordo. I'm trying to remember all the parts of my story, making sure I'm not going to miss anything. Okay.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah. But anyway, so it's like he heads to this. Oh yeah. Another one. Pacalpa region of Peru. believe is how you say it.
00:26:52
Speaker
It is a capital region with a population of about 200,000 people. um And the indigenous peoples of the area are pretty poor and marginalized, unfortunately, but not surprisingly. And they have had many of their resources of the area pillaged by oil mining and logging companies. And they also leave behind a lot of pollution. Yeah.
00:27:16
Speaker
So. Yeah. So it's like, then it's so good when the tourism to the region starts in freecing in recent decades due to this kind of resurgence or interest in um like ayahuasca and stuff like that so it does seem like it's positive you know it has a positive effect yeah it it can but i'm sure yeah i'm sure it's just with a lot of places that
00:27:50
Speaker
um one of the most like fundamental aspects of like income has to rely on tourism. I feel like any place that's like that, there is also like a I don't know if it would be like resentment or something.
00:28:06
Speaker
That like you have to rely on the tourism. It's a weird relationship, yeah. Yeah, especially if you have like and you the added layer of...
00:28:17
Speaker
like you said, the pollution and everything that was left behind, as opposed to maybe a place that just deals with, like, tourism and doesn't also have to contend with that. Yeah.
00:28:30
Speaker
Have all their resources being, um like, ravaged and taken, and and then, yeah, they can't just... you know, have a resort town. It's like, oh no, now we have to have people coming here for like drug tourism and stuff. I don't know what to call it, you know? but Yeah. But yeah, it's,
00:28:54
Speaker
it's certainly something. And I knew it was going to spark some ah discussion. This whole yeah case ends up being like, ah, controversial. I don't know what to say. Complicated for sure. Okay.
00:29:09
Speaker
um oh a
00:29:14
Speaker
Put it this way, Pat asked me halfway through if if that was the bad guy I was looking at on the screen I was like, well, it depends who you ask. And I was kind of like leaning one way and now at the end of it I'm like, I'm not even sure. I'm leaning every which way I'm wobbling. like it's Yeah. Yeah, it was like it's kind of ironic given how it said Christian colonizers tried to outlaw the practices of the people here long ago.
00:29:37
Speaker
So, you know, now it's like, now we're trying to crowdfund $10,000 so we can, so we can learn how to do it and we can do it ourselves.
00:29:50
Speaker
I mean, I'm fine with that. I got no problem with him doing that. He's, he's like being upfront about it and not being like, I'm scamming you saying I have cancer. It's just like, ah can I scam you? And you know, you're getting scared and I get to go do this. Okay. Thanks. you know like Or at least whatever. Okay. So to, yeah, to get into it, if you yeah especially if anybody doesn't know that it's ah hallucinogenic and the locals believe the visions it brings can help heal your body and your mind.
00:30:25
Speaker
And I added like, of course, when done like correctly and safely and whatnot. Um, and it's kind of cool and interesting how they make, uh, it makes a dark tea and it's a combination of, uh, two plants because one alone does not get you high. ah The, so the leaf.
00:30:49
Speaker
which I believe the Latin is like like so little psyatria or p psychotria viridis, taken by itself is benign and won't affect you because the stomach and enzymes that you have just neutralize its... Okay.
00:31:06
Speaker
Like, whatever. Yeah. It's things. But if you boil the leaf with the ayahuasca vine, it blocks the enzymes, making a potent psychotropic brew. Damn.
00:31:18
Speaker
the more you know. Now get cooking. I'm just kidding. um Strict rules for this practice ah or, you know, journey, whatever you want to call it, apply. It's so physically and mentally taxing and demanding on the body um that it's just like, yeah, people are like, you got to go just do a whole week. You have to like commit. It's like a gonna say like a retreat but you know what i mean like it's like a whole thing yeah so and then they do fasting which in this case helps prevent vomiting um that's as the start of the ritual involves smoking a strong tobacco yeah yeah that's what i remember what it is like fasting the tea yeah
00:32:12
Speaker
Makes sense. Like i remember when I first started smoking and it's like, yeah, you don't want to like get too much, take too much tobacco and then you could be throwing up and yeah, it's a little black. Oh yeah. It's not good. It's gross.
00:32:29
Speaker
um Yeah. So they smoke this strong tobacco called Mapacho. mepacho ah Typically you lie down on a mat in some sort of like a darkened place and go into a a very dreamlike state.
00:32:42
Speaker
then the person running the show, the healer or whatever would sing some traditional, um think like prayer songs, they were called Ikaros.
00:32:54
Speaker
um And then of course it can have all sorts of effects and it can bring up deep rooted traumas, which I think they've used it to try and treat like PTSD and stuff and had some success as well.
00:33:06
Speaker
But I mean, we'll have a little bit on that. like There was a CBC nature of things, which is lovely long running Canadian documentary show. Yeah. And they had an episode following Dr. Arthur Gabber mate go to Peru to explore the use of ayahuasca and treating drug addiction, um, in his work with homeless people in downtown Vancouver. And he said in the right context with the right support system, ayahuasca can be remarkably therapeutic. And that's what's drawn Westerners down to the Amazon basin.
00:33:40
Speaker
Um, um, yeah. And just another side note set, like ah a two week experience trip, whatever could cost several thousand dollars. So it is a good source of income.
00:33:54
Speaker
Um, so, um, one person that really has to come into the story that Sebastian became really interested in was, uh, one of the elders.
00:34:08
Speaker
It's like, yeah It can't be maestro, but it was spelled something like maestro. am so sorry. It's, it's, it's was Spanish and it was like a name for the, the elder, the healer.
00:34:25
Speaker
um And her name was Olivia Arevalo Lomas, one of the most well-known and respected plant healers. One of the most like recognizable, I guess, probably like Google and she's probably one of the first ones to come up.
00:34:38
Speaker
And Yeah, she was well known there kindness, like for her kindness, her quickness to laugh and, and giggle and stuff almost like she was childlike, even though she looks like, you know, like, so like old looking, like, oh you' just a little lady.
00:34:56
Speaker
Um, and she had an extensive knowledge of the plants, probably 500 to 6,000 plants and their meip medicinal properties. Um, So he really would be interested in seeing her. But first, Sebastian went to a place called Beres Betza, a retreat in Iquitos, I believe. managed ah Happened to be managed by Olivia's cousin.
00:35:19
Speaker
yeah his title was maestro. I think hers must have been the feminine with that. Maybe I got a typo wrong. It was probably like, what the hell are you talking about? Google doesn't always know the other language words.
00:35:33
Speaker
um But this is her cousin, yeah Guillermo Arevalo. And his trip to there went well. and Sebastian thought it felt it was good. And he like came back to Canada feeling all refreshed and inspired. um But he's also like so jazzed that he couldn't seem to i' wait to want to go back to do it again.
00:35:53
Speaker
I mean, if I had just been in Peru doing anything, i don't think I'd want to come back to fucking Canada. True. you it That post-vacation. Yeah, even if it is that.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, or wherever. you Like, take me somewhere where I don't see snow. Well,
00:36:19
Speaker
all I don't get a lot in that. Yeah, anyway. But yeah, I know. It's like, of course he wants to go back. um And he couldn't wait. He would arrange trips. I guess you could like fly in a shaman to do a ceremony. So he would do that in Comox.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I've heard of that too. I feel like I've heard of celebrities not like, oh, I tried it or like, but they didn't always take a whole trip down there. They're like, maybe they were in LA and they...
00:36:47
Speaker
That seems a little... Get it done there. That's a little weird for me. Why? Somebody. Yeah.
00:36:58
Speaker
Anything that like only celebrities can typically afford to do is a little weird to me. Like, and then I took a cold plunge and i'm like, ew.
00:37:10
Speaker
But I don't know. I do kind of get it. And I just't hate to like Not to like make fun of him, of course. um It's complex. So as time went on, it does seem like Sebastian's behavior became a bit more unstable and just less like himself. And I don't know. I want to use the word like aggressive because. Okay.
00:37:37
Speaker
It did seem to get weird enough that he was told. As you kind of almost foreshadowed, he was told by one of the healers to sit out of the ceremony and not partake of the tea. So.
00:37:53
Speaker
They said, no high tea for you. Okay. um I'll see myself out. i'm Disgusting. ah So, yeah, it did seem to become problematic.
00:38:04
Speaker
This is the sort of context that most articles will not... mention okay um yeah so okay i'm trying to get to it he became obsessed with plant-based dieting uh he still wants to do the ceremonies he's becoming a bit more despondent depressed kind of distant from his family they said his dad was like he should maybe get some help like go see someone go talk to someone um
00:38:41
Speaker
but didn't really want to listen. I guess he took off again, without telling his family where he was going. And then by like July of 2017, he was back in BC and he was posting like kind of sad. was like, anyone like to see me feeling low reaching out? And he was like posting that on Facebook. okay
00:39:04
Speaker
Later that summer, he was back in Peru. He was spotted in Puc Pakelpa in a coffee shop and he was also overheard asking kind of a weird question. He was like asking if he could, if there was somewhere where he could get ah his hands on a gun. Oh, damn.
00:39:22
Speaker
So. It's concerning. Yeah, that would be a little yeah strange and like suddenly or not so suddenly, I guess.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah. Especially for somebody that seems... Yeah, like they were
00:39:44
Speaker
pretty steady, I guess, before. like Trying to get to a better like mental state. and Yeah. Right, help themselves, help others.
00:39:55
Speaker
Doing this, yeah, so that they could help somebody. that yeah it seems to be not getting a gun, but... okay
00:40:08
Speaker
It's getting ominous. It's getting so, so ominous. And you're like, where is this going? at least I was just like, what? The story keeps like unfolding in weird ways. And I was getting twisted and turned.
00:40:25
Speaker
um Okay. We are getting into it. So still in Peru 2017. fall of twenty seventeen Because in September, Sebastian called his old employers, I think the boat people. I was going to say, has he had a job in like, I think the last year you mentioned was like 2012 or 2013. That was years ago.
00:40:53
Speaker
Probably not a steady one, no. um He asked them for a loan he called that Mike Kelly guy and asked him also, He told him his wallet was stolen and then he was back in BC about a month later.
00:41:09
Speaker
So things are getting weird. By December, he's back to the Nanaimo airport in BC to board a plane back to Lima. He arrived on December 15th and then he reports his passport stolen almost immediately again. And then like gets in a weird fender bender, minor car crash situation.
00:41:33
Speaker
so I don't know what's going on. And they allegedly, when he was like using the translation app on his phone to talk to the other driver involved, he, ah asked him about getting a gun. But the guy was like, what? This guy must be lost in translation. Like not saying the right thing.
00:41:53
Speaker
Um, and guys just like, what? Like, And arriving in the Pucalpa region itself or whatever, he asks a taxi driver to take him to um ah Olivia Arevalo Loma's place. So the the shaman that he really wants to see. And first he finds the taxi driver who helped him before, kind of helped translate and stuff. And his name was Herbert Reveglio. So he had helped him.
00:42:29
Speaker
in the previous times we've been there. um He helped Sebastian find Olivia's address where he got to her and he asked her if she could help fix his family and cure them.
00:42:43
Speaker
And she said yes if you have faith. that's That's sweet but like, ugh, he sounds so desperate. Yeah.
00:42:56
Speaker
And there was this thing he had like about a fixation or whatever about like fixing his family. Cause I remember there was another quote, which I possibly had in my other notes where, yeah, I have something on like, I want to like fix my family and make stuff better. And I was like, oh, okay.
00:43:14
Speaker
But yeah. instead of being there with his family, he just keeps going off. That's the thing, yeah. Is sometimes people just need somebody to talk to instead of somebody trying to fix it. Sometimes they just need somebody to help them get back on their feet or somebody to believe in them or somebody to talk to.
00:43:42
Speaker
And... Yeah, and I'm sure part of this, the whole life-changing experience of doing something that can open up your mind and make you see things different or make you experience what people call ego death, where you're like, oh my god, I'm just one part of this tiny little universe. You want to share that with other people. Part of it all.
00:44:04
Speaker
Right. But at the same time, yeah, it just you have to like... kind of give it the respect it's due and realize it's not a ah quick fix. yes like Especially something like a miracle miracle. Especially something like drug addiction or alcoholism or um like trauma or anything that. That's not one cure all one and done thing.
00:44:31
Speaker
And you'll be fine. You have to work at it. it's cool that I can help people with some mental trauma yeah for sure. But it definitely doesn't seem like it it was helping him. So yeah, it's weird.
00:44:48
Speaker
Um, he said he would speak to his family in return. okay Um, but yeah, then I guess he returned later on like later another day or that later that day.
00:45:05
Speaker
And he asked her if she would take ayahuasca with him, but she just said, no, I don't do that anymore. And like politely declined. Yeah. She'd be like, I don't know you very well. like
00:45:20
Speaker
Yeah. Oh guys, I'm so sorry. So we do know that later the mayor the mayor of the area, Like the particular village is called Victoria Gracia.
00:45:33
Speaker
And the mayor, Becky Lianes, said he wasn't a normal person. She said he was strange and that some neighbors found him prowling around there in the darkness. What was he trying to do? Oh, that's creepy. network quote
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah, it gets dark, obviously.
00:45:53
Speaker
But yeah, I didn't. Oh, I don't know. i didn't know where it was going. So one night he came to the hamlet where Olivia was doing a ceremony and he was like menacingly carrying a large club, apparently. um I guess the man on guard at the door turned him away, but he allegedly struck the man and then left the lodge, but tried to sneak back later.
00:46:17
Speaker
They said they'd taken him to the police station at this point. And the... Locals alleged that this had happened like three times, but apparently there's not really police records to verify this. So it's very frustrating for me to know what to think of a lot of this case.
00:46:40
Speaker
Um, Christmas and new year's come around that year and no one's really heard from Sebastian. They try reaching out via Facebook, asking if anyone knows his whereabouts and they are worried. Uh,
00:46:51
Speaker
So two days later, he posts simply, I'm alive. Okay.
00:46:57
Speaker
Ouch. He left in early January with, apparently without any resolving any of his issues with the Arevalo family. ah And there were also rumors of a possible deal with her son. like that he was going to give the son money to do a ceremony or to possibly buy a piece of land to like do his own ceremonies. Like there was some weird rumors like that.
00:47:26
Speaker
Again, it's just this one source. But then he was apparently living back in BC in his RV or motor home or whatever you guys want to call it. um Posts in February of 2018, looking for a job, house, basically a life.
00:47:43
Speaker
on like facebook
00:47:48
Speaker
i know it's bleak and his dad said that each trip to per peru seemed to close him off to us he wouldn't talk about what he did on the trips and he wouldn't talk about a lot of things that went on i implored him i asked him many times hey let's sit down talk about this see where you're going see what you want to do And he would put it off.
00:48:09
Speaker
Um... Internal conflict. Woodruff seemed to be, like... Not sure if he was going to go back again. He's like, who's going to Peru? I have a lot of Peruvian money to sell.
00:48:21
Speaker
Just, like, why do people always just post their shit online? Yeah, that's so weird to me. is like Yeah, he keeps saying, like, he wants to fix his family, but then he's not talking to his family.
00:48:37
Speaker
And he's like... Or seemingly spending time with them. Yeah, that's what's sticking out to me in all this. It's like, yeah, you ask for help from somebody and then you're like harassing them and sneaking around at night. It's like, was that going to make them likely to help you?
00:49:01
Speaker
just sounds like he's really confused about like... oh Yeah, what's going on or like something that happened.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, clearly there's some problems he's having mentally.
00:49:22
Speaker
Sorry, I feel like mine is so much where was like you were having to give so much context to and i was like, I feel like ah ah but my notes were all together then I wasn't bearing the lead so much but we're getting to the final days.
00:49:37
Speaker
So he decided he needed to go back. Again, this is early 2018. On March 11th, he wrote this disjointed post. i am off. and it's like, I am dot off to jungle dot to dot do some sold surgeon and find the mine.
00:49:56
Speaker
See you whence I am healed. FML part four. More dots in there. Okay. That's it's a very weird. I don't
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. Unhinged? Yeah, a little odd sounding. He became more distanced from his family. They did try and tell him to stay home and get some help, as I mentioned before, but he he went back to Peru and he was back in Pucalpa by March 14th.
00:50:29
Speaker
um Olivia Arevalo's cousin, Guillermo Arevalo, said that Woodroff contacted him before returning to Peru, asking if they could meet up at his center in Lima. They never did. Sorry, this is a quote from the article as well. this The rest, this paragraph. Guillermo also said Woodruff told him he was bipolar and that he wanted help. Okay.
00:50:49
Speaker
Woodruff's family and friends had their suspicions that this was becoming a mental health issue, but he had never shared that with them. Oh, I wonder how he received the diagnosis.
00:51:02
Speaker
Or if he just believes he is, yeah.
00:51:06
Speaker
Like, he's just like self-diagnosing. me Yeah, because Yeah, but it can be really complicated with a lot of like mood swings and everything, but it... Yeah.
00:51:23
Speaker
Actually, he might have been diagnosed with something because i believe they found some medication on his things after that was like for schizophrenic or something.
00:51:34
Speaker
o And like all these 13 days after all these flights have to be like super expensive too that he's taking all the time like all these years and everything. That's true.
00:51:49
Speaker
Flights aren't. Yeah. Between Canada and Peru all the time. I feel like that's crazy.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah, I can't afford it. i I'd be in Machu Picchu by now. Although there are only so many people allowed to visit there, I think, a year. oh He did make a post about two weeks after arriving. I'm feeling better day by day in Peru, so thankful be sitting with good peeps.
00:52:16
Speaker
But he also added in a reply that I'm leaving the place I am at due to a tribal disagreement. Okay. Yeah.
00:52:29
Speaker
The morning of March 30th, he goes, this is very strange, ah he goes to a police station to try and buy a gun. I don't know why you would go there.
00:52:40
Speaker
it does seem like it's a bit different. Does he they're like corrupt or something that they'll just give him a gun?
00:52:50
Speaker
It could be a lot different there. Yeah. I don't know. like hey i hear you you know our Our gun laws are very strict compared to a lot of countries. Right.
00:53:02
Speaker
um And the police officer on duty who was talking to him about it he said he wanted it for protection. from animals, like he was going on a trip into the jungle, whatever, whatever. I mean, this is jungle area. And apparently that officer, a young man, a 25-year-old named Glocko Utea, sold him his personal 9mm Taurus that he owned. So, like, as a favor, he just sold him a gun. Okay.
00:53:34
Speaker
And... I do try not to judge, but it did seem very strange to me as a Canadian that that would happen at a police station. Yeah. I don't know.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, we'll just keep to ourselves and allegedly, allegedly and hope nobody comes for me. Yeah, that's a little... I'm scared. Colombia, Peru. I don't know. That's a little weird. So she could go down, down there.
00:54:06
Speaker
hi Gordo. Gordo came back for some pets for the third time. Gordo. you need You're going to need an emotional support animal. I have one now. um Okay.
00:54:23
Speaker
Okay, so it's all going to come. So this is March 30th and April is... It's all when all the bad things happen. We talked about this actually.
00:54:34
Speaker
he says he He had said to his family or his cousins or whatever, was going stay sober on this trip, and but he was following some sort of plant, I don't know, I don't want to plant-based diet, that just sounds like vegetarian, but specific diet, possibly some white sage involved. ah possibly but he was suffering a lack of nutrition some that can lead to problems malnutrition for sure and then certain plants
00:55:06
Speaker
ah yeah need to be eaten or prepared in a certain way to be safe and not interact with other things you're eating in a certain way
00:55:21
Speaker
hence his post about eating street meat in Peru up to this point has been no problem until now shitting in jungle day three. Okay. Well, oh no. um yeah Just stay where you are. Shitting is the least of your problems.
00:55:43
Speaker
Oh boy. Yeah, ah he then was couple days later renting a room from a family outside Pucalpa. And a member of the family there agreed to loan him a Zongshen motorcycle in exchange for paying the insurance about 90 souls, Peruvian, whatever.
00:56:03
Speaker
So that's um basically how then he ends up April april nineteenth arriving in victoria gracia just before midday stopped outside of olivia arevolo's house um the quote from the article continues witnesses say woodruff called out for julian arevolo so her son okay woodruff shot the gun into the air julian arevolo allegedly ran out the back of the house around the same time olivia came out to speak to woodruff um
00:56:38
Speaker
Then it said Carlos Vilcahuaman, that's a long one, the district prosecutor leading the investigation into the deaths, said his team believes Arevalo and Woodruff came face to face at the side of the house and Arevalo started yelling at him for firing the gun.
00:56:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah. The pressure, the conflict being yelled at, Vilcahuaman said, sorry, I can't say it. Yeah. um Itemizing the possible reasons for Woodruff's alarm, he points the gun and shoots her twice. Damn.
00:57:14
Speaker
And like, it sounded like she agreed to help him. He just wasn't getting his family. Gordo, we've already gone over this. Can you just go? She...
00:57:28
Speaker
she
00:57:31
Speaker
Yeah, there's no way she would have had any particular beef with him. Yeah.
00:57:38
Speaker
Sounds like but she had like, spiraling. Yeah, a number of things to, like, try and set boundaries and, like, ah was still, um,
00:57:56
Speaker
I don't know, like, professional or like courteous towards him being like hey i'll still help you or oh yeah whatever it sounded like even with this other stuff going on so yeah
00:58:15
Speaker
no i agree it sounds like it just spiraled completely out of control yeah and he kind of didn't yeah take the responsibility to not do it. But before I had read that article, I wasn't getting a lot of that context and everybody was just focusing on this next part, which is almost immediate.
00:58:38
Speaker
Them, uh, people being judge, jury and executioner. So going to take you through how that happened. So like,
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, the accounts vary. some Some say that her son wasn't there. but however it happened, she was the eight she's the 81-year-old and she's dead on the ground. Villagers are around. It's like broad daylight. Her oh a butletta her like daughter, I guess, whose name was Virginia. like my mom like ah came and was laying on her body because apparently Olivia like cried out, they've killed me before she collapsed. Damn.
00:59:19
Speaker
oh awful. And so they're like now surrounding her just trying to like. Yeah. Call the police in from the bigger area. Yeah. And waiting and whatever. And like a mob is forming. They're already suspecting Sebastian was the shooter.
00:59:43
Speaker
I mean, there's probably. Whether. don't know. If it was the middle of the day. Yeah.
00:59:50
Speaker
Yeah, it seems to be like a bit unclear, but there's definitely witnesses for the next part. Soon after this, a homemade poster was circulated again on Facebook, and it was a Spanish wanted poster with Sebastian's face.
01:00:08
Speaker
ah It said, please, brothers, help pass this on Facebook. This is the man who killed our teacher, Olivia Arevalo, after making her sing Anaikaro. He found her alone, asked her to sing, and then killed her. This happened in the colony of Victoria Gracia, Ucali, Peru.
01:00:30
Speaker
alleged that he wanted her to sing a healing chant, Anaikaro, and then she wouldn't, and that's why he shot her. Okay. oh
01:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, and then they put that poster out and then it's like reward, ah blah, blah, blah. And immediately like a mob forms. And um the next thing we know, there's video online of um footage of a white man, Sebastian, being drugged on the ground with a rope around his neck while a group stands around watching him being like lynched to death. Yeah.
01:01:12
Speaker
And it's like, what? And that's the part that most of the story, like the first news articles were like Canadian man lynched for the shooting of this healer, this elder. And like, but none of the...
01:01:34
Speaker
why he might have done it or any of this lead up to it so it was very very confusing or i was just yeah i don't like like you're like why would they lynch this guy like what the fuck yeah i don't like that that's not good reporting
01:01:53
Speaker
yeah if you don't have the context then yeah like maybe just try to give the straight facts it was hard yeah it was hard until i read the other article to be like oh like there's a lot more to this than just he was down there being like ah i want to be a white guy doing your ceremony and they didn't just like but because only this only the part of his killing is on camera i don't know you're like what yeah so yeah it that's how cops were first alerted to it was footage
01:02:30
Speaker
It went viral. He's on the ground. He's in a puddle. it's awful. It sounded like he was begging and there's like children around and everyone's just and I was just like, oh my god, this is horrible. What century are we in? like Yeah, it's the mob mob mentality.
01:02:48
Speaker
We talked about that in different... The madness of crowds. Different circumstances that happen. been and Yeah, it's not always...
01:02:59
Speaker
with like um like somebody dying or anything like that but um like you covered in I can't remember where it was the mobs where all those women were like assaulted and everything like oh I believe it was mainly Egypt like just that kind of like ah a form of violence that can take place when There's like a handful of people perpetrating, but then like so many spectators and then it just like, it can escalate because there's a crowd and doesn't matter whether it's like a death or anything like that. Right. Like it just, yeah, it leads to a different. Yeah. They just need to get riled up about something. And it just, yeah, it's different than what you see when there isn't a crowd or
01:03:59
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. I just find it unusual. All the witch trials. It's very... Yeah. Well, it's like, oh, we started this. We can't change our mind. We can't back down now Like, we gotta follow through. come on guys. look Oh, no. ah Yeah, wouldn't you rather have had, like, your loved one have a proper investigation than you just get immediate revenge? I don't know.
01:04:26
Speaker
But... it's It was horrible. Like, both both deaths are horrible. And yeah I think a lot of the sentiment that came out afterwards was locals being like, you you're literally only here because, like, a white guy died, too. That's not a local. Or wasn't, like, a poor person. So there was a lot of still, like, anti-whatever media cops. Like, you guys only come out when, yeah whatever, someone else gets killed. And it's like, ah
01:04:57
Speaker
Ugh. That's probably more true. Especially if they're not like, um yeah, they're only telling part of the story or whatever, or only interested in part of the story. Right. They're not there to like find out what was happening.
01:05:15
Speaker
Then. I could see two very different, like net, like doc, like I was gonna say Netflix, but like documentaries coming out about this, like one on one side, one on the other, just being like, we were totally warranted or.
01:05:27
Speaker
He was crazy. like I don't know. But the evidence ah from what it said afterwards was bullet casings that seemed to match the gun he had purchased.
01:05:41
Speaker
So there is that. um However, they didn't find his body until two days after. It was buried in a shallow grave. And so the gun, what is it? Gunpowder residue testing?
01:05:55
Speaker
It seems really... Suspicious to me because they were like we didn't find anything. And then it seemed like then later they were like, we did. was like, um, okay.
01:06:10
Speaker
And it's like really hard to go back now and like find any evidence when he was buried immediately. i don't know. Gun was found near the cemetery.
01:06:22
Speaker
where they were or where she was buried and then they found the motorcycle he had bought and it was dismantled and in pieces like near him or something and
01:06:35
Speaker
like yeah yeah i've tried to find more in the aftermath there was at least two guys that were like arrested in conjunction with Sebastian's death a bit of a a kind of it's really not satisfying cover up or something or tampering with evidence
01:06:54
Speaker
It does feel like there could be definite corruption and I hate to say that, but like, I don't know. It's just so muddied. I'm like, what else did they say?
01:07:08
Speaker
Like the evidence, there's not a lot of evidence of like what happened before she died and what would have prompted him to. Yeah.
01:07:19
Speaker
shoot her because his family is like he he's not violent that he wouldn't do that and like he's not here to tell the story now right he can't get his day in court and that's one of the worst parts know two people are dead she was 81 he was 41 like it was seemingly good people right yeah and then like yeah for her her family too like the evidence that could have proven that he was the one that killed her is also gone in them trying to cover up maybe that they killed him in response. Like, you also kind of botched any justice she could have received because all that evidence was tampered with, right? Because you maybe tried to hide it or whatever, or it just didn't get
01:08:16
Speaker
you couldn't wait yeah and that's a good point too because they had mentioned at one point uh that she was not the first um spiritual healer to have been killed there in the recent years before that okay that could have played into like they're like oh here's another one and you said she was like quite famous or like well known too like that would have been yeah that would have been really bad
01:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, there wasn't, I don't remember if there were specifics on the other a case where a healer had been killed, unfortunately, but there was at least another case where, yeah, two guys had been doing ayahuasca down there and one man allegedly came after the other with a knife and then that man got stabbed to death by the other man.
01:09:12
Speaker
And there was also a Canadian involved and I was like, damn, like, yeah, this is dangerous. This is not like, that's at least two or three, you know, instances where healers or someone, you know, connected to the healing ceremony community have been killed.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't know what to think or do with that. So it was like, oh my God, you guys, I really need to like, try and get these notes together and try and give the best unbiased account that I can from what I could find about these two murders.
01:09:51
Speaker
I think you did a really good job. I mean, i can see, i can see both sides like so, so much like her side.
01:10:01
Speaker
i mean, yeah. If I worked at a job where, somebody was coming in and you know you want to help them whatever but then some weird stuff starts happening and maybe they're skulking around at night like whatever and who but they're still yeah and but they're still asking for help and you are a person that believes in helping people
01:10:35
Speaker
so and you think this person just needs help and so you keep agreeing to try and help them in some way and it's just not working and you you don't expect something like that to happen you don't think it's gonna be violent or whatever and then tragically it is and then no yeah right and then his son You should to have the right to politely refuse to keep or to treat someone or to do a ceremony or a drug with or a you know an experience that you no longer do. You're like, no, that's not in my wheelhouse. And you have every right as whatever doctor, kind of doctor you might be. or like That's what I think of it as, like a doctor. Yeah, like you're an expert.
01:11:26
Speaker
Medical practitioner. Yeah, and then his side just being... Like I kind of said, like so desperate that that's the thing that's going to fix your family.
01:11:38
Speaker
and just like not being able to let go of that and like being fixated on it or something that like for years you're going back and forth. But like everything else is falling apart around you Like your family is just asking for you to get help, but you think you're helping your family or like something right he feels like he's coming from a place of good intentions i feel like none of it came from a bad place yeah but it's just uh yeah if people say like maybe you should get help you should listen to your friends and family that's a good lesson here yeah it's just a perfect storm of like i guess yeah the bad bad situations like a perfect storm of
01:12:30
Speaker
All the bad pieces falling into place as as often happens with true crime, especially if like, yeah, i'm like a potential mental illness or something is involved that's... Yeah. Yeah, being untreated or somebody
01:12:50
Speaker
is treating it on incorrectly. Because you never know what's going to be emotive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or the trigger or something that can just like... cause someone's mental break or psychosis or instability to have very dire consequences. Yeah.
01:13:09
Speaker
Yeah. So sad. so very sad. Yeah. Damn. Damn. hope I hope we do something nice next week. It was a real bummer. I know. i was like, just continue winding these notes. Yeah. You're sucked. down I did not. Well, I did not see yours coming at all. It was not what I expected. I've never heard of it.
01:13:34
Speaker
And I think it's a really like, I didn't know how to frame it it's yeah It's a very complicated case because I can see like, damn, if it was my family member and you shot them, I'd be out there and I would be hitting you with anything I could. And you would not be walking away if I had any say in it. Because, like, fuck you.
01:14:01
Speaker
You shoot a family. Oh, yeah. No, you're done. Like, i don't give a shit. That's a natural reaction. like, I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it would be hard not to be like that. So I can see how, yeah,
01:14:17
Speaker
that kind of things happen. But obviously, understanding that... in the grand scheme of things that's not how you want to react but of course that's how almost anybody would react right because you're trying to protect your family and your community and everything right oh yeah you'd probably jump in front of that bullet if you could but then when you're too late like maybe it's just that that i empathize with the rage response um
01:14:50
Speaker
But yeah, and I didn't know how to tell it. And I was like, oh, I they think I said to Pat that I didn't know. If you ask him, maybe he's the bad guy, but I don't know. And that was halfway through the case and then doing the rest of it. I'm like, oh, now I don't know. and And I think he said Mr. Ball uncovered And i was like, I wonder how he did. Because if you start with her murder and then move back, you're like, you're going to really sympathize with, like,
01:15:12
Speaker
I don't know. Like, you're gonna be like, well, damn, yeah, lynched that guy. But then you're like, oh, I don't know. This is everybody. so This all sucks. It just all sucks. You're just like, he needed help. And he didn't listen when people said he did. Yeah.
01:15:28
Speaker
And he didn't help himself. And Other people tried, but like he he, you know, he was past the point of being helped maybe at that point. Yeah. Who's to say, i mean, mental illness and mental health can be such a tricky thing and it can have very serious consequences for some people. yeah,
01:15:54
Speaker
yeah there's still so much that like, unless you have a degree in it and like, dedicate your life to like study yeah studying it and yeah focusing it on so much I think it's really hard for average person to have like a complex understanding of it that like times like this when you're faced with like a case like this you don't necessarily know how to process it because you just don't understand it right
01:16:30
Speaker
I don't know why, but that, yeah, it's like the lack of um clear evidence made me think of like, yeah, look at how we fare when we're on these um dame game type social experiments where they're like, yes, like traitors or mafia where like,
01:16:48
Speaker
You know what? We know one group is bad, but we don't know why. And we're not going to get any good clues. So then we're just going point out every little behavior where they were like, will you scratch your nose when they said the word trainer so clearly? You're like, and people just jump on the weirdest things. And it's just like bizarre how like the mind works that way. Yeah. Where you're like, what? That's nothing.
01:17:08
Speaker
But when you have nothing to go on you just don't know what to think. yeah I have a lot of empathy for. Like, yeah, her and her family and him and his family. Like, I can see if... Oh, yeah.
01:17:23
Speaker
Right. Yeah, from both sides. Like, if my loved one was shot and killed in this matter, would be, like, devastated and super, super angry. And then if I had a family member that was killed in that way, that this, I would be, like, so heartbroken. And I would be also angry that like...
01:17:46
Speaker
yeah they're both killed yeah it was basically there was crazy kids had to witness this it was videotaped people saw like yeah it just yeah we're like we we don't do this anymore we used to do public hangings but now we kind of think that's a bit um over the top it's a bit grotesque yeah it's like oh my god yeah but damn then again we just like some violence and we just they're like
01:18:17
Speaker
oh yeah just gun violence just another day yeah and then something like this stops us in our tracks and we're like whoa fucking violence man it's it's violence it's fucking someone dies it's it's always life-changing like and there's there's no coming back from it oh the fuck exactly
01:18:41
Speaker
Yeah, anywho, how do we end that shit? don't know if you can see, but I got my ah hair dyed to a more brown I thought It's kind of hard.
01:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's the lighting in here is not great, but I was like, maybe I do need highlights. And she was like, girl, yes, let's do something other than this red. I'm so excited. And I was like, okay. nice
01:19:09
Speaker
Yes, we're We're in our hot girl era, aren't we all? Yes, let's do it. yeah
01:19:18
Speaker
40 is the new 30.
01:19:23
Speaker
Oh my God. Oh, we went to, um here, i'll I'll tell you something fun. I remember on your, this was your 30th birthday and we went to the place with the the food, but they also had the games yes and a lot of games. raroom Arcade games.
01:19:37
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that record. That was fun. And I wish I had stayed for more of the games. But yeah, Pat and I did end up going to this like pin ball convention thing today. That was actually kind of fun. Oh, really? That his, yeah, like a childhood friend of his or whatever was in town doing it, parts of it. And it's like, there's pinball championship. And excuse me, there was some, you know, you could just go and play on
01:20:08
Speaker
some of the machines or go watch the champions doing their champions. I'm like, Oh my God, this is so intense. It's like ready player one where there's like a screen of like the person on the pinball machine. And like, it was, it was actually pretty fun. I was like, Oh, I like this. This was like, you know, like when we wandered around beer fest and there's just different little booths and you know, it's just kind of a good time. I wonder if my dad knew about that. Cause there's a,
01:20:36
Speaker
my My parents have a pinball machine. They used to be obsessed with pinball machines. So growing up, yeah, we had one in our basement and they had, on oh wow they are at some point had like reprogrammed it so you didn't need to put money in it.
01:20:58
Speaker
um oh But there is... wo bla Yeah, but it stopped working a number of years ago. So when they moved, they took it with them. ah But there's some parts my dad's been able to fix and he took it all apart and like cleaned out everything.
01:21:15
Speaker
But some part of it still, make off still not quite working. I can't remember what isn't, but yeah. Oh, right. It's like that car that needs one more part. Yeah, there the problem is that he's finding is just like,
01:21:32
Speaker
not a lot of people understand pinball machines or like how to fix them and that kind of stuff. That was the problem he was running into. um and like part, apparently there's quite a community. i don't know. I was surprised. interesting So that's interesting. What is the, the theme of the machine are like, what is the name of it? Oh, i can't even remember. It's like, cause they had like,
01:22:00
Speaker
metallica lord of the ring you know they have like yeah this one's got like when people on it i can't remember if they're like dancing or what but okay okay maybe more of it's like some of them were a little bit more generic like lady luck or something think i saw i'll uh have to take a picture of it or something next time if i remember pay more attention to it yes because yeah there is like I did not know. that Yeah, my whole childhood sat in our basement.
01:22:33
Speaker
And it worked when I was a kid. um I remember he would plug it in and we would play on it every once in a while. blank I kept thinking he was taking me to a foosball thing because I couldn't remember the difference.
01:22:47
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that's the one with the little soccer guys with the one leg or the whatever. And he's just like, no, no, it's not. Anyway. anyway ha They'd be like offended by that.
01:23:00
Speaker
In fact, there's like one lady kind of gave me like a stank eye when I got too close to the Metallica one because I was like, oh, I'm sorry. it's It's a tournament one. I definitely won't spill anything on it. just wanted to get a closer look.
01:23:15
Speaker
Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, they were into it. No, it was cute. And then his friend said they've made, like, there's been, like, special edition ones they've made, like, lately. Like, they had done a, somebody had done a Stranger Things one, a John Wick one. Oh, that's cool. That's, like, really popular IP to base it on. Yeah, I figured I'd do it. yeah Do it off a big franchise. May as well. Yeah.
01:23:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:46
Speaker
Well, anywho, I know what we're talking about next time, and it had to do with cryptids. and you Maybe they're underground. I think you kind of picked it. was like, I think I remember.
01:24:02
Speaker
Underground. Yeah, I was like, I can work with underground. Underground, some hidden, maybe. in What's that movie? Tremors. Whatever.
01:24:14
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that one. And then I was gonna say Twister, but that's literally tornadoes. Nope, never mind. Yeah.
01:24:25
Speaker
I'm dumb now. Anyway. Anyway, sorry about the shitty, shitty true crime cases, but y'all know what you're coming here for.
01:24:39
Speaker
We have to, we have to tell the stories. The people had to live it, so we have to bear witness, you guys. Yeah. And then we tell some funny stories to make it better. oh and, well, did we have a funny one on Patreon?
01:24:53
Speaker
Maybe it wasn't the funniest. Sometimes they're much more lighthearted over there, though. it's If you want a different vibe episode, we have some very, like, good ones. Our most recent one, I don't think, was that was our missing persons one. I know my case was not.
01:25:10
Speaker
It was more true crime-y. Yeah. ah Yeah. Yeah. But... Or, like, it was unexplained. Yes, mine. Still ongoing cold case. Those are always feel good to cover.
01:25:27
Speaker
I like the other ones we do with, like... Sorry, I was gonna say the Reddit and the robots. Yeah, those ones are much more light-hearted. The robots, yes. Just sending each other little, like, reels and...
01:25:41
Speaker
memes and pictures. The robot fails are the best. Yeah. Yeah. You, you always pick the good ones. I think I sent you one where it was like a robot marathon. Yeah. They're all trying to run on this track.
01:25:55
Speaker
It's hilarious results. They're just like face planning and veering off to the side. They always just look like drunken toddlers. Yeah. All those robots that are to take over the world. Yeah.
01:26:07
Speaker
They're like, if they can keep on their feet. I would love a robot in my house that just could do the dishes. oh yeah. I mean, I just hate. okay. We need a. Because I don't have a dishwasher.
01:26:22
Speaker
A Roomba for the dishes. so I just want one to stand at the sink. Yeah. I put a dish in the sink. It quickly washes it, puts it to dry and then shuts off again. That's all I want. Like.
01:26:34
Speaker
You can get a dog. They are good rinsers. Yeah. you run i hardly ever have to scrape a plate yeah then you have to wash it after still but it's true once we got our dishwasher fish fixed fished i was like hallelujah yeah i'm like let's have all the dinners at my house again because i'm good let's go yeah yeah we'll have to do another one where we do like some snacks and stuff like we did on patreon yeah like We did some sangrias and stuff. That was really fun. Yeah.
01:27:11
Speaker
Yes. summer year summer people have you Something something. Yes. yeah Something summery. We'll do it.
01:27:23
Speaker
Don't you threaten us with a good time. I was going to say that sounded like a threat. We'll do it. We'll do it, guys. We'll do Don't think we won't because we won't. Oh my God.
01:27:35
Speaker
Having to talk to the public on the phones at work, one lady is like, I caught your threatening emails. It's like, we're just reminding you, you might need to renew your registration yeah and you haven't been able to.
01:27:46
Speaker
damn But I'm so sorry. It's threatening. It tells you you might have to come in. Well, no. Damn. I hope this email finds you shitty.
01:27:59
Speaker
ah I yeah you're just gonna go on like um there's a whole subreddit called tales from the call center where I'm just like oh my god yes why do people lose their shit when they're on the phone uh yeah I do not miss emails I don't have to send any at my current job um but the amount of times I used to have to say like as per my last email Did you fucking read it? Because you sure responded to one out of ten points in it. Right.
01:28:32
Speaker
Like... The bitchiest opening line ever. No, but it is, though. It's like, come on! People don't read things, though. Absolutely, they don't.
01:28:43
Speaker
Nope. Anyway. Um... Yeah. yeah Yeah, we'll catch you next week, I guess. Bye-bye! Oh, cue Gordo.
01:28:56
Speaker
He's entered the room again. Hello. This cat, man. Like, fucking... Stay over there. i think, yeah, you could hear his little, jingle-jangle. And then you just looked up at me like, hi!
01:29:13
Speaker
All right.
01:29:16
Speaker
All right, we've got to let Kelsey go the poor girl. i have to work at 7 a.m. tomorrow. Have a good night. I'll die. Bye. Bye. Bye. my
01:29:50
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Castles Encrypteds. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate, and download. Our music is by Kobe Off Air and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia.
01:30:03
Speaker
We are also a proud member of DirkCast Network where you can find the best and spookiest of all indie podcasts. Follow us on social media where we are at Castles Encrypteds on mostly all of the things, now including TikTok. Check out our bonus content on Patreon cryptid clashes, video minisodes of your hosts making asses of themselves, ask me anything, quizzes, other special episodes, and more. Starting at just $2 a month, you can get one to two extra episodes, depending on your level.
01:30:36
Speaker
We produce, edit, and research everything ourselves, and any support you can lend helps us to keep it cryptic.