Transcript
Speaker: Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
Speaker: You are listening to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. I'm your host, Alanna. And I'm Kelsey.
Speaker: And that was really weird because for some reason it didn't play the intro on my end. No! and i was like, I didn't want to say anything in case it was playing for you and it looked like it was. So I'm just sitting in silence like...
Speaker: ah um Here, going to give you the door shut. I hope. I didn't shut my door. Perfect. Thank you. Oh my god. That's happened to Tig on the Handsome Podcast.
Speaker: I was like, should I say anything? oh no gonna be like alana zi i was sure if it wasn't playing for you you would have said something because you can control it on your head but i'm just sitting in silence like and i'm over here just doing a weird shoulder shimmy as i wait for it to play taking a sip yeah oh my god well if for some reason the mic didn't pick it up and I only heard it in my head yeah then then we'll insert it don't worry oh yeah because we can always cut your your voice out in post if you're like wait what's happening oh dear well ah as always things are yeah things are off to a ah raucous start over here as usual we're discussing cats getting too close to candles and
Speaker: yeah bird mi difficulty yeah burning your face in the oven and yeah putting your face too close to the oven oh um how yeah what's ah what's new pussycat how's your sunday been good uh
Speaker: Not much. I have been on vacation. As I think we talked about in one of the episodes that I was going to be on vacation. I'm halfway through. It's fabulous.
Speaker: Just to have some time off for you is like, must be so nice. Yes. I'm so lucky to be able to take like unpaid time off from work and yeah relax a bit and catch up on some stuff I needed to. And one of the things I needed to do was take Gordo to the vet and he's all good.
Speaker: Health wise. They said he was, everything was good. Um, But i I almost forgot, i would have forgot ah to mention, ah but the vet actually, i I'm so bad with people's nationalities. I'm like the worst. um but the that Weird but right.
Speaker: yeah the vet that saw him weighed him and then was asking me oh like it did you guys were you trying to get gordo to lose a little bit of weight or whatever and was like oh they mentioned like a tiny bit like it wouldn't be a bad thing if he did but i haven't really like gone on my way to you they're like oh he lost like 50 grams or something like yeah that's like a couple pounds for a person isn't it or like I think so. like He's weighed in kilograms. So he's like eight point something kilograms. So it's like not nothing. yeah
Speaker: And then ah he just offhandedly and I didn't get into it at the moment, but offhandedly, he's like, oh, he pretty soon he won't deserve his name anymore.
Speaker: oh my god
Speaker: Gordo, the fat man. Right, right, right. thought it was funny. Yeah. He'll be El Skinny Mini or something. Yeah. yeah I was just like, oh, that's cute. And I didn't, it took me like a second to realize what he meant. was like, what do you mean he won't deserve his name?
Speaker: What is, do you think on his vet sheet, it's just Gordo or is it like his full um Gordon? It says Gordo. No, it says Gordo. so like but if the person didn't know that I knew el gordo means the fat man like what would they have been saying to me but I just thought it was funny because we were like well we get that reference yeah yeah but he's like you'll have to change it to something else or whatever he said I got a bit of a chuckle out of that I was just like oh cute yes oh my god he'll always be the fat man oh yeah
Speaker: there I've seen posts where people like do have a good time working at vet's offices and like yelling out different names. like yeah Sir Bigglesworth. Yeah, especially if you let kids name your pet.
Speaker: Oh, no. Yeah, that's true. heard some bad ones, have you? well I remember there being a few ones that when I worked at the, or when I was volunteering at the SPCA, um they would have like different intake animals in the back that like if they had their names that they had been brought in with or surrendered with or whatever. And there was some crazy ones where like, this is five names long. Like,
Speaker: Oh, yeah like yeah. And it's where it's food related. It'll be like chicken and waffles. You're like, yep, this cat's name is chicken and waffles because that makes sense. The food names. I don't know why they're so cute. But yeah. Just like in the night if like you're mad at this cat, you're just screaming me chicken and waffles. Yeah, because that's his full name and you know it. that's Government name. You have to government name them.
Speaker: 64 pet names oh pet names um but no I can't remember I heard some like podcast or someone joking about um like a pet having the like the full name of a like a serious actor like oh no I kind of oh no I can never remember who it is but someone was like like older like been a lot of like cop movies i'm like wait so then they can just be like um
Speaker: um like it was one of those guys that was like bad boys like donald glover or whatever it's like donald glover i don't know whatever stop rubbing your butt on the couch or whatever it was nice but it was that really old white actor with a lot of wrinkles on his forehead god what's his name anyway uh please let me cut all this out because my brain did i have no idea But it's just like the idea of like the full name of like an actor being called out when you're like, they're rubbing their butt on the carpet or something. How embarrassing. i don't know.
Speaker: Nice. That'd be pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: But anywho, it's been... the Yeah, I'm glad you've been enjoying your time off. You deserve it. It's... I have a a couple days off. I don't know if i managed to do anything. Yesterday, it felt like a really long day. I don't... Just from getting up to walk the dog to, like, then I was, like, working on notes. Like, you know, so almost felt like i was at work or something. You're like, okay, then I, like, put in a whole day at the office, like, working on, like, things. like Yeah. Various errands and paper, you know, like, all that shit. And then...
Speaker: cleaning out my i was really hot and then i was like but i gotta clean out this car and like sell it to cars for cash or something because i don't want this old shit oh did they i couldn't trade i couldn't get it lumped in with the trade-in thing basically so that i have to sell the sorrento Oh, okay. But, like, once they sell it, it'll have enough to just pay off its freaking loan. La-di-da. It's, like, less than, you know what I mean? It's still less than a couple grand or whatever left on that. So it's just kind of have a new car, have to remove the old car. Yeah.
Speaker: Do that transition. Then won't have to keep going. Oh, yeah, we'll just have to take your car because otherwise then we have to move my car so that he can get the Bronco out of the garage and blah, blah, blah, blah. blah Oh, like those people that have like too many old, um, cars parked in their driveway and along the street. And anyway, oh yeah we don't want to be one of those. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Just, uh, anyway, that's basically what took up my, some of my weekend. And then, I thought I was gonna be able to record and then i was like it's like oh shit is it D&D weekend because we usually do it every other weekend but then it's summer so schedules are kind of hectic you know how it goes yeah it's up in the air anyway so I felt like I've had a weekend but I had a lot to do too I don't know weird yeah yeah that's what's like i'm taking two weeks off because i'm gonna have one week of just craziness and then a week of sitting on my ass watching movies i hope i want to watch a bunch of movies oh yeah you've been watching some shit yeah yesterday what did i watch um for text what was the first one
Speaker: Oh, i was surprised you'd seen Backrooms already. or like, could wait, it just came out on streaming, guess. So that's, I guess that's. I've watched the most recent horror movies, which I was happiest to catch up on. oh so many good ones lately. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Love them. barooms Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. ah Yeah. I watched, ah I think it was ninety s I think it was very early ninety s I'd have to look at it. Packers.
Speaker: Angelina Jolie. That's not where i thought you were going. What's his name? i never forgot. i I never forget. I never remember his name. ah Talk about never remember his name. he played Tommy Lee Jones. Is that who I was thinking of? Anyway, it doesn't matter. don't know. He played sherlocks old Sherlock in elementary and then Matthew Lillard was in it as well. Just very over the top early ninety s um movie where they're like, we're hacking into the mainframe and then it's just a lot of keyboard clicking and weird. oh
Speaker: yeah yeah graphics happening for 45 minutes straight the mainframe that always gets me yeah no they've done um i yeah it was some over the top and cheesy and i was kind of obsessed i thought it was pretty funny i was like this is probably they thought they were this was like the shit in the 90s this is so cool Well, yeah, there was like a whole period.
Speaker: It's funny you say that, though, because like, remember I was fighting with ours. I was like, I got a VPN and stuff. And then it was like, for a while, it was one of the sponsors on like Critical Role. And then like Sam Regal would be doing their ads and he'd be like, putting putting them in gear. And yeah, they'd be all hacking into the mainframe. And they'd have these hokey looking like oh my keyboard things on their like...
Speaker: arms like it was early though you're referencing hackers i'm like i have not seen this movie i didn't really get it but oh damn it was on uh i think it was on prime or something but i had it on my list at some point saved and then they kept putting it in the part where you had to rent it or you had to like buy it it kept getting locked um and then yeah it kept getting locked off and on for like the last yeah like the last year or so so i hadn't watched it yet and then it just so happened i i saw it listed and it wasn't locked anymore and i was like oh i gotta quickly watch this before they put it behind the paywall again So stupid when it's that old. You're like, why are you keeping this behind the paywall?
Speaker: Who is clamoring for hackers? Is it all thanks to Critical Role? I'm just kidding. But I watched that and that was cheesy and yeah kind of just cringey and ah hilarious. but fun and campy. Kind of like, yeah, worth it.
Speaker: I think it's like when they like watch something on How Did This Get Made and they're like, oh, like it obviously it's terrible movie, but like is it worth watching? They ask at the end most of the time it's like, yeah. Almost always yes. Most movies are. Right. like Unless you're just like, this should have been over like 45 minutes ago or whatever. Then you're like, okay. Yeah. um And then after that I was like, oh, I want something...
Speaker: After i i yeah you said, oh, I can't record tonight, I was like, I need to watch something like more upbeat that's going to hold my interest more. And then also on my list was the second Mamma Mia movie.
Speaker: Okay. So that's what I ended up watching at 8pm last night. o That made the The second one. Yes, because they're also campy and...
Speaker: Oh, and isn't Sharon one of them? I mean, that's kind of, like, reasonable enough. She's in the second one. Okay, yeah. Come on, it's Meryl Streep. I do have to say I liked the first one better because of Meryl Streep in it and Oh, she's great. yeah um yeah But yeah, the cast in the second one was pretty good. I enjoyed all the little things, like,
Speaker: I might have watched the second one because of Cher. Yeah, I can't really remember now. But like, yeah, they seem like decent, fun, good times. I definitely like the first one more, though. But it's been a while since I watched it.
Speaker: Yeah. ah So it was a weird day yesterday. I was like, I mean, what am I doing? We like to, or Pat likes to rewatch The um the Accountant, and in particular The Accountant 2 with Ben Affleck and Jon Bernthal. And like, they do have a really good I have not seen that.
Speaker: Oh, okay. He's like, um, uh, high, hmm, autistic, sort of, but with the savant syndrome and then their brothers. So Ben Affleck, like, never calls his brother he's not great at social cues and stuff like that and then yeah i don't know they end up like they're really good at fighting whatever and they end up like kind of being on the hunt for each other yeah
Speaker: Maybe and my brother at some point was watching one of them and know I caught part of it or something. I'm probably underselling it because I can't explain the plot very well in a few sentences right now. um The first one has Anna Kendrick in it. I don't know. um then And stuff like that. And in the second one, Jon Bernthal's character is really up obsessed with getting a cat.
Speaker: And then that the other kid is holding the cat for too long. So so there's some sweet... Weird. Cat scenes, speaking of as we are. Yeah. Them so much, yeah. <unk> Trying to make sure Gordo stays ah calm and relaxed in his little box here beside me. So he's not all interrupt-y again.
Speaker: has interrupt us. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then my brother was saying he just listened to the last episode and he enjoyed the Kenyan folklore and like.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. He's a friend yeah fun. His friend Faith, I think he was saying, also knows a lot about Kenya. And he was kind of like, oh, I know some stuff already. And like you said. Oh, cool. Yeah. Something maybe took rain to a Senegalese restaurant. I was like, wait, what?
Speaker: And she's he's like, yeah, she tried something other than chicken fingers. i was like, oh, cool. Good for her. Yeah. That's the thing. If you. Yeah. like one of the easiest ways to get into like a different culture community or something is food like people just love you sharing their food and if you ask questions about food and stuff it's such a nice way to start a conversation with somebody is like oh hey like even in our lunchroom one the fastest ways to like
Speaker: connect with somebody would be like oh your food your lunch smells so good like what is oh yes yes yes yeah it's just so nice that's that's so much nicer to hear than like what is that that stinks buts staying so i couldn't eat all that or like people judging your food yeah it's so much nicer yeah yeah and it brings so many people together it's so nice that's what i enjoy about all those damn food podcasts i listened to yeah it's so great anyway yeah no that's cool yeah try new things
Speaker: oh man yep ma well well i guess we should crack into dive into yeah Dive in Get in get in why we're here today. Our last one was long. I was like, here's where our stuff starts after the chat. I think I put it in the show notes like that. 38 minutes in? No.
Speaker: Well, people like to send their comments on some shows sometimes. oh yeah. We're bad. oh Sometimes it's been a week or so since we talked because, you know, lives, you just get busy, whatever. and ah Yeah.
Speaker: You're just like here's everything that's happening. For some reason, yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, oh, right. And yeah, when you're like, are you going back to work tomorrow? And i was like, no, I'm off for another week. aly okay I was like, it's okay. I'll let her decide because I can do whatever.
Speaker: We are being, we've been a little overworked at work. That's all. Sorry. Oh, that's hard. Yeah. Hopefully you can have a ah proper vacation again soon.
Speaker: ah Yeah. Another three day weekend you actually get to enjoy. i too need to book some time off and make some. Yeah. Yeah, at least some long weekends it's here and there, if not a yeah ah full vacation plan yet.
Speaker: Yeah. Anyway. If anybody wants a crusty old 2015 Kia Sorento, no.
Speaker: By the time this goes out, it better be gone. Just kidding. She's done me pretty well, ah old Sophia, as as my mom named her. But it's time to go. Aww.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What? you guys don't name your cars? Yeah. but
Speaker: I guess my current one I never named. my oh My first car, I just called the Young Mobile because that's what my brother used to call because it was an Oldsmobile. and it was my grand it was our grandma's. So he used to say, oh, now that you're driving it, it better be the Young Mobile. oh boy. So just like stuck with that. Right. But other than that, I don't think I've ever named.
Speaker: I've never named one of my cars. i don't know Somewhere down the line, the one started out as the puke mobile because one of the one of was kids puked in. Damn. You just unlocked that memory, yeah.
Speaker: Right, the things you forget. my parents had a ah orange car um that is an unusual color before they yeah it was like very orange because they called it the pumpkin car and they still call it the pumpkin car so it was very very orange some of the oranges i kind of like like one was drawn my eye and i was like that's cute there's some ones that have the the gold like flecks like the pearl to them and they're yeah it can look really nice it's just yeah it's less pumpkin and more ah yeah yeah goldy there's like um make a huge difference between matte and like pearl finish on stuff this is true yeah
Speaker: And theirs was more of a mass finish. B-P-Y, yeah. Sometimes their the names are not invented for some of the cars. No. ah that's that to do my brother had a ah Jeep, an Orville Edition Jeep. Oh. And he called it Orvie.
Speaker: Just called it Orvie. and Well, um who can come up with the best name for my new um Escape? Ooh, is that what you have?
Speaker: Yeah. We could go with... You have an escapee? Escapee from Nemo? I don't think this one's as Italian. was thinking more like Ella Esche.
Speaker: Ella Esche. Oh, what do you got over there? Tessa Tucson? Tessa Tucson? Tucson. That's probably what I call it. I call it the Tucson. a In my head, I call it my Hyundai Tucson. The Tucson.
Speaker: The Tucson Carlson. Tucker Carlson. Nope, I can't. Anyway. The Tucson Tucson Tucson? I don't know.
Speaker: Oh my god, we've been in here so long, we've not gotten any content. I'm gonna have to pee before the cases even start. It's so bad. It's okay, mine is literally a page and a half. is Mine is so short. It's fine if we vamp. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker: I'm interested though, you mentioned something about bees. and so I was like, okay. Yeah. Because in my head, I was like, i need to make sure she's not covering my case. And I was like, in what realm would she have stumbled across this case? ah Because it was on... It's the ultimate podcast of fear. It was listicle.
Speaker: And I have to shout this listicle out because it was... ah vocal Vocal media um okay that had this nice little listicle and the headline was like six times animals help to solve a crime. okay. So you went like animal angles. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, unexpected heroes in criminal investigations. And then the one that really stuck out to me, because a few of them that were in the little listicle were ones we had already talked about last time when we did this. I think we talked about like a few birds and things like that.
Speaker: yeah, yeah. They kind of come up if you... Yeah, like ah and unsung heroes for cases or whatever. Unusual. Yeah. Detectives.
Speaker: um So this article, this is directly lifts it lifted off of that listicle. This is all the information they had. And using the victim's name, I tried to find out more about this case. And I could not at all find a single other reference to this case in any way, shape, or form.
Speaker: That's odd. Yeah. And I did determine that the name of the victim ah is also apparently a very famous ah like perpetrator of a different crime that was like...
Speaker: um like four person very violent bludgeoning that happened in the same state know around the same period so when I was trying to search um and's like trying to look for something that happened on like September 11th 2001 sorry but that just came up on like a case earlier we were watching used every combination of state city year, victim name, everything I could think of. And I could not find anything other than this other true crime case that had nothing to do with this. So this is literally all the information is this one...
Speaker: article from this listicle um that's three paragraphs long it's like where did they get their information yeah i even scrolled down and was like they didn't even list their sources so like come on right because you have a wikipedia article or something then you can like you can look at their sources yeah you're like okay and well here's something was like god damn i can't find anything about this well maybe it's so Yeah, well, we'll have to put a big allegedly on it or something. You know, it's like Yeah, so I did look up kind of like the expansion of it from...
Speaker: I don't know, the use of bees, as you kind of said, I told you it was about bees. So this is, yeah, it's from vocal media. And and this is what the little like three paragraph in the listicle said.
Speaker: it said, in a fascinating intersection of, I want to say, apiology and criminology,
Speaker: honeybees played a crucial role in solving a murder case in christiansburg virginia in 2008 and the case revolved around the death of ricky mccroskey whose body was found in a remote wooded area and the lack of physical evidence and witnesses was hampering the investigations and
Speaker: And the, yes, ah the breakthrough came from an unexpected source, honeybees. a beekeeper in the area reported that one of his hives had been disturbed around the time of the murder. And upon closer inspection, investigators found traces of blood on some of the bees. And also in the hive, which I didn't know was possible. i was like, oh, damn. I thought that was just an episode of Hannibal where they turn that guy into a human beehive. yeah oh
Speaker: i I must have blocked that out. ah Yeah. um Oh my god. Yeah, so they yeah the guy like reports, oh yeah, my...
Speaker: beehives were some of them were disturbed so they test it investigators find blood on some of the bees and the hive and a dna analysis on this blood confirmed that it belonged to the victim that ricky mccroskey wow like there was enough to yeah crazy right yeah uh yeah it wasn't the way i thought it was gonna go yeah neither did i And then that's why was like, oh, this is kind of fascinating because like I wouldn't have expected it at all.
Speaker: life Yeah. when you Like, well, just having ah the one hint of the word bees. I'm like, okay, so it's something to do with pollen or you know what I mean? Like some small trace of something like that that they brought on the yeah Yeah, normally it would be like a trace of an insect or an animal like on the victim's body that then leads them back to be like, this was the scene of the crime. the Very forensic files. Yeah, because they had the body and then the person was like, oh, yeah, this. Oh, his beehive was disturbed.
Speaker: Yeah. um So this discovery led investigators to theorize that the killer had stumbled into the beehive while while disposing of the body or fleeing the scene. And in defending their hive um from that um disturbance, the bees had inadvertently collected crucial DNA evidence.
Speaker: um This theory was supported by the presence of multiple bee stings on the prime suspect who had initially claimed to have been nowhere near the area at the time of the murder. wow Secondary proof. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So they were swarming him as he was... committing a crime or thing yeah uh-huh so they had noticed i guess when they um yeah because they said who would initially claim to have been nowhere near um yeah so when they were interviewing their prime suspect they must have like noted all of these things and be like hey why do you have so many because like that's unusual too people don't normally have a bunch of these things Hopefully not. youre else You're having a real bad day. Yeah, that would suck.
Speaker: um Yeah, this is the last bit they had. Sorry, I thought this was part of my other part. um The B evidence and other circumstantial proof were as essential or were instrumental in securing an indictment and a conviction.
Speaker: And this case highlighted ah the potential for insects, particularly bees, to act as an inadvertent evidence collector in outdoor crime scenes. um And it said that it also underscores the importance of considering all aspects of a crime scene, including the local flora and fauna in gathering forensic evidence. It's like, yeah, talked about that before and stuff, but like that yeah um like grasshoppers and stuff, I think. Yeah.
Speaker: Different bugs. They can play a big role in like, I don't know, collecting and and transferring evidence or whatever. yes stuff like that don't know not usually collecting like blood on them though this is so like I know I thought that was so weird I was like what do you mean there was blood on the bees and in the hive i was like does that mean there was blood in the honey and then I started don't really get it I was like ew don't want blood honey thank you oh no this is the winnie and Winnie the Pooh did you see that one the horror movie is like blood and honey Oh, it's, you know, she it's one of that's pretty terrible. Yeah.
Speaker: I, okay, I don't think I watched it, but I think one of the YouTube channels I like that does reactions, I think I watched them react to it because I thought that would be funnier than actually watching movies.
Speaker: Probably was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. but from what i recall It was funnier hearing other people talk about it, I think, than actually watching it.
Speaker: You're like, okay. It's not going to be any cocaine bear, because I actually did like co cocaine bear. That was a surprise. Sometimes there's a surprise hit, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. thought it was hilarious. I'm sorry, I might be the only one. thought it was fucking hilarious. I watched it multiple times. my God. That was like an Elizabeth Banks movie. Yeah, I think she directed it. Yeah.
Speaker: She funny. thought it was just hilarious from the from the first time I watched the trailer for it. I just thought it was going to be ridiculous and I loved it. Yeah. oppos yes um And that's just so because like I said, i couldn't find anything more about the case, actually, or can confirm any of these details. I decided to look a little bit more into how maybe they are using bees in like crime scene investigation. what what was the other case that kept coming up? Because I don't, I couldn't think of it from these details. I'll find it, I'll find it very quickly because like, it's the only thing that pops up when you Google this man, Ricky McCroskey, who's supposed to be the victim in this case. He's like the name of a perpetrator um in what's called the Farmville Murders.
Speaker: Farmville Murders. Well, clearly it's it's something we're goingnna have to follow up on then. Sometimes... There's weird connections like that. And you find another case to cover. You're like, wait.
Speaker: And it happened so recent to, like, my case. Because this says the Farmville murders occurred in Farmville, Virginia in September of 2009. And my case is ah christiansburg virginia in two thousand and eight And okay so it was just like it was too many like trigger words where it's like these are your keywords in your search and like it's just too much overlap. But it was a quadruple bludgeoning homicide of Mark.
Speaker: Niederbrock, Debra Kelly and their daughter Emma Niederbrock and their friend or their daughter Emma Niederbrock and friend Melanie Wells. Jesus.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. At first your algorithm's like do you want Farmville the game? You're like Yes, please, actually. Yeah, that's really fucking horrible. Yeah, but like no combination.
Speaker: Yeah. um Could I like get and I even was like, looking up, I was like, bees help solve murder case bees this bees that I couldn't find a single thing. Other than this, it kept linking back to this article. And I was like God damn it.
Speaker: That is frustrating. You're like, there's no way to know, but there's got to be someone who knows more. so Yeah. Like, to verify the one source. And then I felt really sad because I was like, well, this is a murder victim and, like, there's no record other than this one article that, like, you exist. Truly. I was like, that's also kind of shitty.
Speaker: Yeah. It's... Like... What is happening to the internet? oh No detail. It didn't even list. It didn't even say who the perpetrator was that killed them or like why it happened. Nothing.
Speaker: this His body was done. Yeah, that was kind of sad. I was like, oh, um yeah. So I looked up some other things. It's really hard to research some things. Yeah, like the internet is just a weird place nowadays. It's getting harder. Yeah.
Speaker: It's like so, yeah, it's just like backwards when you're trying to search something. It's like, Jesus Christ, like, yeah. Yeah, the first page might be a lot of other people covering a case and you're like, oh, it's kind of an echo chamber. Even then. yeah Like.
Speaker: No, that would have been nice in this case. Yeah, I would have loved other people to have even talked about this once. um Yeah, so I've ran across a couple articles that were talking about how they are using um bees and I think like apiaries and stuff.
Speaker: ah on like body farms which are where they um people can donate their bodies um to science after they die and then part of it could be like I think to body farms which are the ones that like criminal investigation or like forensic investigator um in training and stuff use in like different universities and stuff well that's cool yeah and it helps them study different the effects of different things for like determining timelines and how somebody could have died and like how different weather conditions affect the body and all that kind of stuff uh so there was couple just being buried for no you know purpose sort of yeah it's kind of helping people or maybe that sounds a little bit bad but you know what i mean yeah yeah it's cool
Speaker: Yeah, you can do something. I mean, it's not against your religion or whatever. um so this one there was a couple articles, they were basically saying the same things, but these were the information I got from them, that bees are being used as a way to help determine the local or the location of human remains, or even to help narrow down a search area. Oh, okay.
Speaker: Yeah. So body farms are helping investigators track the differences in decomposition from various environments, such as like soil type or the time of year.
Speaker: ah Like, is it cold conditions, hot conditions, spring, summer, winter, as well as what state the bodies are left in. Yeah.
Speaker: And different scenarios. So they do things like sometimes they'll um they'll wrap bodies up in like carpet or other materials and other ones they'll just leave more exposed and then they'll monitor.
Speaker: um Some stuff said like day by day or even multiple times a day and like take notes on everything. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, like they're just trying to help murder victims and victims of crime and everything like that, but collecting this information to help for future cases.
Speaker: And they've also, because of a few things that have happened, have started to introduce bees into part of their research. um So there's this Mary O'Toole.
Speaker: um O'Toole is a retired FBI agent and profiler. And she was quoted in a couple of these articles I read. And she works at one of the universities, kind of helping with one of these body farms. Okay. so these were some of the quotes ah saying if a human body is dumped outside and they begin to decompose and honey bees just by virtue of how they act in nature fly around and they land on flowers and other things and then they take that back to their hives um so when somebody goes missing investigators can contact beekeepers
Speaker: and actually test their beehives for body decomposition. And that if this ah like test comes back positive,
Speaker: ah they it can drastically narrow down search areas. un Wow. So Atul said, if the test is positive, we can then estimate that the body is likely within two to five miles of the hive.
Speaker: like that the the bees from um because they only normally travel a certain distance yeah yeah they won't be able make it back at night yeah yeah so if people like if investigators have no real search area and there's like multiple um like apiaries in the area they can contact them and like come in and test like the bees for decomposition and be like oh it should be within like this perimeter of this apiary and like narrow town search fields that's more for so like if the body's missing obviously as opposed to like you have the body and or
Speaker: trying to do the other way but yeah it was kind of interesting and that's that's pretty much ever everything I found unfortunately um I was like I'm just had of cool it's like unexpected thinking about that yeah yeah it kind of blows my little tiny mind yeah it's like right it blew mine too I had no idea they could do this or this was something that like they were working on and like figure it out i was like that's interesting i'm like it makes sense and i yeah i don't know who would' have thought of it but when you think about how specific um like agriculture is with regions and like winemaking and stuff and you're like oh well this comes from this very specific region or whatever and like
Speaker: yeah, why the hell wouldn't we know which like honey and bee comes from which area, but then it's also like, yeah, if you can specify that then yeah. Interesting to incorporate it into specifying. that So they're, still trying to understand the bees they're testing if the bees have been in areas where they have picked up on yeah some sort of decomposition in the,
Speaker: Yeah. Just like if they landed. Yeah. I think so. Like the soil, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. Like if it's fed into the soil. oh as like, yeah, just something or come in contact with the body.
Speaker: i didn't really know. And they didn't really explain like that aspect of it. um But it's interesting that they're actually able to like. figure that out i guess it's like damn i know i'm like am i high yeah it's like so that's the soil and then you get your soil and the soil feeds the plants and then the plants like you know the plants feed the i think so the pollinate everything and then you know you get the different honeys that taste like the plants that they're paul like the the bees are poly you know yeah
Speaker: using things for pollen whatever yeah don't know if they mean that or if it's just like that they landed on the body or oh yeah i don't know because it was never like explicitly stated and then i ran into something else that said oh yeah it's kind of like the concept of like um you know how they have like the um like sniffer dogs and everything like you can train dogs to sniff out bombs or train them to sniff for decomposition and stuff so it's like oh yeah guess so like the wine and crime gals when they joke about the one
Speaker: stupid scientific scam lady and she'd be like a chemical reaction or a chemical what is it a reaction occurs but then like yeah maybe it releases some sort of enzyme that we can't detect well yeah like there is oh yeah i think i saw something that said there's like 200 chemicals or something involved or that get released during decompositions it's like damn like my gosh all this stuff going on yeah they say once you smell it you can you always know the smell of a deep like a decomposing body like like you can smell it as a human right i mean not that we can't ever because they say that you once you smell it you know that smell like forever but i can see that because uh that's i'll never forget but the yeah
Speaker: uh in like our middle school we did okay i don't know if you ever would have had it they did like animal dissection but we had one of our yeah feel like i've only seen it on tv i don't know if we did okay yeah we didn't do it like hands-on our our One of our teachers in our school, he like works on a farm.
Speaker: And every years... That is very Alberta. Yeah. um Every few years when a calf or like tiny cow ah would die of like natural causes or even like a goat or anything, he would bring...
Speaker: the animal in and like all the science classes for half the day would sit in a thing and they would do like a dissection and i will never forget that smell um yeah yeah yeah uh that would be that wouldn't that would be rough but it was like very animal oh yeah yeah and it was only ever if they died of like natural causes for sure and everything like that um but yeah i kind of agree went to like it was like a few years later we went to like a hutterite colony and um i this is not my high school experience but then i skipped a lot of class so i don't know
Speaker: yeah um Yeah, they did like, they had chicken, like chickens there. And obviously like they do a lot of their own animal slaughtering and stuff like that. And it was like the same kind of like smell. And I just immediately got so nauseous and stuff. Like I just, yeah.
Speaker: So I can imagine like if you smelled a decomposing body, you would never forget. but yeah it's like yeah that's some of them would smell just more like fresh anyway i don't want to say that but you know yeah i'm sure there's a different smell between like a like a fresh animal carcass and so yeah off yeah oh yeah i don't want to think about one that's been sitting outside but oh no yeah no no i i like that i like like bees um
Speaker: yeah I thought it was cool that they were helping to solve helping solve crime now. I was like, oh, that's cool. That's true. And it i was like that fits in with the folklore, in my opinion, too, because they're always going, go tell the bees they're you're gone and you've got to keep them up to date on yeah who's dead and left and... Yeah. Married. Facebook keeps coming up with random things now that it's like about bees and all this stuff. And I'm like, did i do something that's now all these weird bee things are coming?
Speaker: Right. Getting ah the book recommendations. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure this story is about lesbians. so Lesbians. Lesbians. Lesbians.
Speaker: lesbian lesbian lesbian did you say i was ki um yeah i was like i don't know what's happening but i'm getting all these weird like be ads and all this stuff as be content is getting pushed yeah but it's not very related to bees oh no otherwise i would be interested Yes. Yeah. It notices if you hover over something too long. It's like, oh, yeah. my God.
Speaker: Reddit is like, because you've shown my interest in a community like this before. i'm like, okay. Fine. I accidentally clicked the link, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I'm only here for the articles. yeah all right. Should we take a quick break? Yeah. We'll be back.
Speaker: Ever hear a true crime case so wild you had to stop and ask, who does that? Same. And that's exactly why we made our podcast Stop.
Speaker: Who does that? We break down shocking cases, courtroom twists, and headline-making crimes you won't forget. If you're obsessed with true crime and love the details most people miss, come hang out with us on Stop. Who does that? Available on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker: there we go yay
Speaker: we're so good we're like professionals it's only been four years it's been four years at least like five think it's been yeah we started this before i got my sorrento so yeah anyway We probably haven't celebrated our podiversaries very much this last year. no we started like doing ah our hundred episode ones and like our 50 episode ones, I think.
Speaker: Yeah. It's easier to keep back of than a date. Yeah. They feel like big milestones for sure. i know. I can't believe we're in two hundreds.
Speaker: that's crazy that was crazy to me i was like jesus us i've done this 200 times over 200 and then some yeah and that's people are still listening i know i love and more than like two listens more than just your brother and sister and your mom oh they're fast forwarding now no i'm just kidding no
Speaker: No, it's crazy, though. And I was like, I know, especially I feel bad. like Strangers. sporadic. Yeah, well, yeah. And our schedules, we've dropped to doing the sort of bi-weekly. Yeah.
Speaker: That's been a bit easier for us. But I know yet like there's still podcasts I listen to that I'm like, oh, you guys started around the same time as us. And I didn't realize, like, I go listen back to them. and it's like, oh, no, they stopped and stuff. And you're like, oh, shit. Oh, damn. You know, some people gets to be too much between...
Speaker: that and their daily job so like good for us though ah truly yeah it's had its moments for sure i mean we're both working full-time and doing all things yeah family it can be a lot sometimes but it's we just just enjoy hanging out with each other and that's what makes it easier
Speaker: Also, I said to him, we were just talking about me being at the, I get my hair done the other day. And then I was like, oh, and then yeah once we get done chatting and catching up, then I go, boys. So I was like, I feel like we just recorded a fit free podcast or something. Because we just, we'd be like, we did we do catch up. And then it's like, oh, are you watching this thing? It's like, oh my God, girl. You know, and then we're off on the next day. Just like me and you. It's great. I'm like, oh, I love it.
Speaker: I'll lose so much. It's the best. Yeah, gotta have someone to shoot the show with. Anyway, we're we're glad you guys like to listen in. and sorry Sorry for the tangents, but you're welcome for the tangents.
Speaker: Yeah, if people are still here after 200 episodes of listening to us, clearly ah they have some sort of parasocial obsession.
Speaker: Clearly you're our besties, yes. yeah insert your name here we love you like I do other podcasters I'm like oh yeah that's just like these girls do or just like they said my friend the other day was telling me my friend from creeps and crimes yeah like I'm like my friend Amy I'm like Amy Poehler
Speaker: ah oh Anyway. um So this is okay. Well, mine is um I went more i I didn't want to go searching, even though I know we were doing cases solved by an unusual sort of detectives, if you will, or unusual suspects.
Speaker: I didn't look up specifically, like, kind of we'd said about, oh, we've maybe touched on, like, pets or kids or like, maybe you were going sort of in that direction. So I just sort of went more, you know, solved by normies, civilians, non-cops, and found more of a listicle of things. Oh,
Speaker: Yeah, there's, like, some that would like people help solve, like, cases, people on the internet helped solve it came up with that one like that documentary um don't fuck with cats where it was like that was yeah help that was solved by a population of internet sleuths um yeah that one scarred me for life i deeply regret ever watching that documentary because i oh in my opinion in my opinion the footage of
Speaker: The perpetrator, ah yeah like, torturing and killing the cats did not need to be shown without, like, a trigger warning like it was. and like the multiple times that it was and i would yeah it's not like super explicit like but yeah it's not like no it's shown like I literally watched him strangle a cat until it died and drown a cat until it died like that could have been described or stuff like yeah see you're right you're right you're right watch the video of you doing that in real time like it just didn't
Speaker: whereas if it was on the internet you might have got like a yeah something where you like want to click on this first before you see this content like yeah they didn't do anything to blur yeah it just came out of nowhere and i was like jesus christ that's true whereas like you're watching forensic files or something you're like i'm not gonna see like a bunch of blue pictures of a dead body or something yeah Or it all would be pictures. It wouldn't be the video with full sound and no... That's true. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like they could have described it or they could have, like, done other stuff I've seen them do in other documentaries. I thought the rest of the documentary and everything they did was fantastic. But, like, that was, I felt, really unnecessary.
Speaker: because it was like, oh, why do I feel like I went out of my way to like watch videos of animal cruelty now? like I could have gone the rest of my life having never seen this. like Did not want to see this.
Speaker: Yeah. But that did come up when I was looking up... I'm sorry. When I was looking up Solved by Animals and stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Solved by Animal Lovers, more like. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: The internet coming together and yeah figuring out based on the background of the videos and stuff that it was a man living in Canada. Yep. Fucker.
Speaker: Anyway, fuck that dude. Yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. I had a nerve. I won't take it up again. I hate that. It makes my skin crawl.
Speaker: Oh, totally. Yeah. There's some things that are very uncomfortable to watch. You're like, well, yep, that wasn't necessary. And watch o like probably anything else other than like having to do with kids or animals. Like, I don't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, this doesn't have that. but it does have things that are gonna make you mad still oh no don't want to be mad
Speaker: you might be familiar with this case i've heard it on a few podcasts um it didn't immediately come to mind when thinking of these cases but it is the story of abraham shakespeare
Speaker: Shakespeare. No, I don't know. i It does not ring any well. It's a very interesting name, but I did accidentally a couple times write or type it out. Abraham Simpson.
Speaker: No, I was... Grandpa on the Simpsons name is Abraham Simpson. Oh. And that's where the similarities end. So I just accidentally mistyped it and went, nope, that's not the one I want. It's Shakespeare. And then, but then if you like type something similarly to your problems, trying to clarify something, yeah what was the tip in the Shakespeare case or, or no, something, what was Abraham Shakespeare's siblings? And it was like,
Speaker: William Shakespeare had five siblings. I was like, oh, not that one. Especially the fucking ai like things. Oh, the AI overview is so dumb sometimes.
Speaker: I have mine set on Google. um If you have all, it shows up. But if you have your Like, you know how it says, like, um news, images, whatever, like your search functions at the top? If you use web, yeah, if you have it set to web, it it gets rid of all of the AI overviews. It doesn't list anything that's AI. It's kind of like what what Google search was a year and a half ago. It's kind of more like that if you use web.
Speaker: it like cuts all that out, which I like. um But every once in a while, it'll like boop back over into fucking all or having the AI overview. And I'm but like, no, what is this?
Speaker: Get out. can't imagine. Yeah. It must be like looking stuff up on your own Wikipedia being like, that's wrong. Cause you're like, that sounds weird. ah um Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. All right. So, yeah, it is a sad case. It is um this guy, Abraham Shakespeare. He was born in April, April 24th, 1966, mother, elizabeth Walker.
Speaker: there are a lot of last names don't know why they're not all shakespeare's but that's i i told you i tried to google what the siblings he had a brother named robert i believe robert brown but anyway they lived in lakeland florida so going to sunny sunny florida um ah Yeah, not a lot on his early life, but it's a lovely sounding place. It's in a part of Florida called Polk County, ah which is east of Tampa and southwest of Orlando, and gets his name from several lakes in the area, including Lake Morton downtown. And it's sometimes locally referred to by the nickname of Swan City due to its sizable populations of swans.
Speaker: um Fun fact, all of whom are descendants of two mute swans given to Lakeland by Queen Elizabeth the second in 1957. Damn. I thought thought that was kind of cool.
Speaker: It's all incest. All the swan babies are incest. they're all related well it's a two mute mute swans not that they're related they could have been a it's a couple maybe a maiden pair know but all swans that are there are descendants so like after the next generation royals do it They keep that family line tight. That family tree is.
Speaker: Very slim. With some of those fucking kings. Not even a not even even a third one. Just a shake up of the fucking chromosomes a little bit. my god.
Speaker: See, and i don't even remember if I told you, I was mentioning on one pod, I was watching the the ones in the eagle's nest that has a live feed to it in um California. And then like by the time I like edited that episode, I was like, they like flew the nest.
Speaker: The has happened. It's so cool. It was good. One of them accidentally kind of got ousted from the nest a little bit accidentally when their brother tried to take off. But then they landed. it was okay.
Speaker: They landed on Luna and whoever was fine. They landed on a branch below and and they were okay. I'm glad. I know. The tension was high. I like, what happened? I was hardly sleeping at night not knowing.
Speaker: It's like, what? It's like Ocean Gate Gate. No. or Tree Gate. Oh my god. Hi, gorddo Gordo. Gordo's back. The fat man's back.
Speaker: but Guess he was back, back again. Um, all right, stop me before I tangent again. Um, so Abraham and was working as a truck driver's sort of assistant, I think at this time in his life. Um, he would like help unload, ah trucks and things. I don't know. I didn't know really they that they had assistants, but like some, some reports,
Speaker: What is he doing? He was just headbutting me. Oh, no. Don't push buttons on the laptop, buddy. can't see his face.
Speaker: Every time. It's always, like, trying to push buttons. Hi, baby. You're so needy. But you're so very cute. there When my friend came over, we were going to go out last Saturday a week ago. Yeah.
Speaker: um she was taking when i was getting ready she was taking she's like i just did a whole photo shoot with your cat oh she showed me a bunch of pictures she kept holding up because she brought um coolers or whatever with her she kept holding up the cans like he was drinking of them
Speaker: oh we need a gordo calendar he's sponsored yeah it was like he was being sponsored by these cans she's like he's so photogenic he's so cute she's like i love this derpy little part and she's like don't take this wrong way but is he partially and i went cross-eyed yes and went okay he owns it i love his little derpy face i'm like yes it's how he gets away with being bad yeah just looks at me with those eyes
Speaker: yeah hey what were you guys going to do we went out to the bar jealous um we were out pretty late um we left i think we got there maybe around 9 30 10. oh god you're so young nine thirty ten ah my god you're so young I know. um and Going out to D&D at eight o'clock felt late last night.
Speaker: I was like, oh God. Yeah, it made me feel young. I got home. She's like, text me when you get home. And i was like, okay. And then the next morning, because I was not paying attention to the time, I looked at my text and i was like, I text her at like 2.15 a.m. being like, I'm home.
Speaker: Wow. Jesus Christ. I was like, I did not think we were out for like, yeah, basically. I was like, I can't believe we were out for four hours. We had lots of fun though.
Speaker: It was a really fun bar. It was kind of like low key and they had a really nice drink menu, like actually really good drinks, reasonably priced. And then the food there yeah was all the food we had was really, really good.
Speaker: um And like actual like different types of things and stuff. It was, yeah, we had lots of fun. Oh, that sounds like a good time.
Speaker: it's just It's just nice. Yeah. We've had so much rain here that somebody is just like, oh my God, get the hell out here and do something. yeah Yeah. That was the thing we were watching because they have like an outdoor area and that was kind of closed because it was, you know, lots of mosquitoes have been here and then it was kind of like overcast and a little bit, a little bit cooler that night. So yeah, it would have been cool to be outside, but it was just too gross that day.
Speaker: yeah They've been insane. The thunderstorms. Yeah. I know. was I really want to hit up like a meadery. Anyway. Yeah. That would be fun.
Speaker: Okay. So, sorry, just to back up. Most reports say he was working as a truck driver's assistant at the time, helping to unload, etc. And this was for a food distribution company called MBM.
Speaker: corporation um abraham liked the work yeah and he was getting along with his team he loved i was i don't know every minute of it no no who does that but but he liked it i love my job would do it for free i i know i'm like i never want to like speak for anybody but like yeah he seemed like to be like kind of a happy-go-lucky kind of guy i don't know that's nice Yeah, he'd pick up lucky pennies on the ground. i'm like, oh, my mom will do that. She'll collect dimes.
Speaker: ah but yeah like um So he and his co-worker one day are driving to Miami when they stop for snacks in a town called Frostproof, which is a fun Florida town name.
Speaker: Frostproof? Frostproof. Damn. Yeah, that's an interesting name. It's a humble brag. Okay, we get it. You're Florida. You're warm. feel like if we had a a place here called Never never Had Snow. like Never Had Snow.
Speaker: There is a thing in D&D called Never Winter. Never Winter Nights. Oh my god. We have some weird town names in Alberta too, mind you. We have a place called Tangent.
Speaker: And ah think there's a place just called Blue Sky. yeah you Yeah, a lot of us, a lot of our places here are like tied back to different indigenous names and stuff as well.
Speaker: So we're used to saying them. But yeah, sometimes when you hear ah that' trying to pronounce names and you're just like, some of them yeah. And yeah, just a few of them. You're just like, oh, you're like, I guess I've like grown up my whole life.
Speaker: Just like hearing these names and stuff that it's like, oh, I don't even that think true that. but Yeah. so I've lived here long enough that like. yeah to hear medicine hat and red deer i'm like yep those are places i don't first go oh fun yeah you know cool name yeah or like a hell of americans trying to or other people trying to pronounce things like bamf when we're like why does some of them say like banniff yeah yeah ah oh my god um
Speaker: Okay, so yes, they stop in Frostproof. Abraham and his co-worker Michael Ford, who he's, Ford goes into the store, asks if Abe, oh, I kept calling him Abe in my notes because it was shorter to type in.
Speaker: So I'm sorry if he doesn't like that. And you blinked it. Yeah. Abe Simpson. know um He asked if Abe wants a soda or anything, to which Abe replies, two lotto tickets, please. And he gets in the lotto tickets, and Abraham pays him his two bucks, and off they went.
Speaker: And that was the 15th of November 2006. And you win $10 million.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. You know this case. No, I don't. I don't. I promise. don't. There's just too many cases. i yeah i didn't.
Speaker: ah So when i told you, oh, yeah, we should do one that's like cursed, the movies, whatever, right up above that, I had lottery winners curse. Like literally inviting. And I almost suggested that instead of the movies one. So that's crazy. Yes.
Speaker: Oh, totally. It's like the curse of being suddenly rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's less of a curse and more. Yeah, humans suck.
Speaker: Yeah, family suddenly try to kill you. Some craziness. Little Gordo. Well, and it's most famous, yeah, like, you know, that's that's the top fear. You're like, well, who's going to be my actual...
Speaker: fucking friend or not um yeah so yeah yes and i can't hear how much do they win um it was technically 30 million like damn off two dollars ah right i right think that was if you took like the weekly amount because he ends up taking the lump sum and and uh okay seems to be a smaller yeah Yeah, you get taxed on that really, really heavily and then it's... Apparently.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a lot different. I don't know. I think I'd be a weekly person and then I'd be like, if I want something crazy, at least I have to think about it for multiple weeks.
Speaker: you know what? It sounds a lot safer. Yeah. Just after doing this research. Also, the numbers. This reminds me of Lost when they're like, remember the sequence of numbers? 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. 42. Oh, my God.
Speaker: oh my god and you but oh And I don't know if anyone else is watching From, but if that movie, if that show doesn't come to some fruition, I'm going to be like, why would that guy sign on again after Lost happened and then have a stupid show that says it's going to pay out and it doesn't. So I'm just really hoping stays. I haven't watched From yet, but I've heard it's good.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a lot of like, like Lost, I feel like there's a lot of um mysteries up in the air that I just need answers to. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker: i like those kinds of shows. they're just like mindless entertainment. they're stuck a town that they can't get out of. Yeah, and everybody just comes there by like, one way of getting lost in the highway, I guess. And then they just can't leave again.
Speaker: So it's like, what the fuck is that about? Yeah. Yeah. um so he correct oh my god i can't talk abraham had picked the correct sequence of numbers 6 12 13 34 42 and 52 i love that you knew the numbers by the way can hear the guy ingrained at 15 32 4 8 15 16 it's the way he said um like a little chant
Speaker: ah So he had won a cool $30 million, dollars but you bet your bottom dollar that this Ford guy that was his fun co-worker a minute ago was going to fight for a piece of that pie because he physically bought the tickets, remember?
Speaker: So he tried to say, can you give me $1 million? dollars and Out of 30? Yeah. Or like whatever he got left of us?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean... guess it's not a lot, but I don't think he's entitled to it. You know? And no, if they were going for, like, give me half or some shit, it'd be like, absolutely not.
Speaker: um And he didn't pay... if like Like, it's not like you bought them on ah he bought them on behalf of Shakespeare, but then Shakespeare gave him the $2. He still paid him for the tickets. Yeah.
Speaker: he wasn't just like oh here's your lotto it's on me yeah i'd have to know like how much yeah
Speaker: if he had just kept it chill my bro but then like abraham's like no hell no it's mine my money my winnings um oh yeah and one article it was like a link to like an old newspaper article And it said how he had given his last $3 to a homeless person that day after he bought the ticket. That was his last $5. He spent two at a lot of ticket games to a homeless person. Who deserves it more, I ask you?
Speaker: Instant karma. They're like, here's 30 million. Help 15 million homeless people. see He's more of the generous spirit, not this fucking greedy old Gus, this Ford guy.
Speaker: So, yeah Michael Ford tried to sue or sued Abraham Shakespeare. yeah Then it went to court where he tried to claim the tickets were stolen and he lost because the jury and them did not believe Ford. Yeah. He tried to say they were stolen.
Speaker: Just the first person that's going to be a dick about him getting rich. Yeah. Mm hmm. Um, so, now that that legal drama was settled, Abraham got to keep his payout, which ended up being, I guess after taxes, a lump sum of about 17 million.
Speaker: So, quite a... I mean, if somebody was giving me 17 million dollars, I'd be like, sure, I'll give you a million. Like, fuck. Giving you one seventeenth of my thing? Yeah!
Speaker: It's not crazy. The worst. But, like, I think you'll come to see that the problem is that everybody thinks that if they just get a little bit and yeah, it just, and then they just keep at him and asking him.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, And he was like so not the one to be all splashy and all buy all this shit. He's like, I read, oh, he bought a car for himself. It was like he bought a Nissan Altima. But then another thing said he bought it for his girlfriend. I was like, oh, it's not even a flashy car.
Speaker: It's kind of cute. you That's nice. he Yeah, he did like move. He bought a home in a gated community. So that cost about a million dollars. um Yeah, probably you have to. jesus Christ.
Speaker: yeah a little more secure right i know where he was living before but but he bought a rolex from a pawn shop so he was still being like frugal you know i feel like um but around this time he was still constantly being berated by people in his life asking for money from him so much to the point that he told his brother i'd have been better off broke damn yeah He mentioned ah another thing to a friend, a quote. He said, i thought all these people were my friends, but then I just realized all they want is just money.
Speaker: So it's kind of withdrawing from people. ah keep reaching out to him. Yeah. I mean, you would.
Speaker: Family was kind of noticing his distance. His texts seemed a little little off. But also they said he really wasn't that literate to begin with. So I'm not sure his um what his text usually would be like if he's not a big, like he can't read very well. I don't know.
Speaker: So, but by November 9th of 2009, he was actually reported missing by his family. so it's just a few years after.
Speaker: forget what I said, but yeah. Yeah. His mother happened to get in touch with the police to say she had had a phone call from her son, but she didn't think it sounded like her son. She thinks he's he sounded off.
Speaker: OK, they hadn't really like, yeah, they hadn't actually seen him. They'd been hoping he'd been living somewhere quietly by the beach. I don't know if that's something he'd like mentioned, but due to all the drama, like maybe.
Speaker: They thought he kind of got away for a bit.
Speaker: But like don't want to actually lay eyes on him and his family since about April of that year. So it's, it's been a few months and then they report him missing. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. So yeah Once his mom, Elizabeth gets that call and she informs police, like this was kind of the tip, the tipping point. They trace the strange call and they find that it came from a guy named Greg Smith.
Speaker: And he eventually admitted that he had called Elizabeth, Abraham's mom, on behalf of his friend, whose name was Didi. oh He said, I didn't feel right about it, but I thought I was helping Miss Walker because she's been worried about her son.
Speaker: So his friend Didi had coerced him to make this phone call pretending to be Abraham. That's really weird. Okay. Right? Right.
Speaker: I would ask maybe more questions. I don't know. But at least he yeah is admitting it now. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So this Dee Dee, otherwise known as Doris Donegan Moore, she had met Abraham Simpson in 2008 through his realtor. So perhaps when he's buying that house, I'm not sure.
Speaker: Nice. Oops. Yeah, she seemed nice. She took an interest in his story and said she wanted to write about his life, actually, like a ah a biography, rather, of his rags to riches tales sort of thing.
Speaker: Her words, I think. And that's sort of how she's to weasel her way in. Yeah, I don't know. That's about as much clarity as can find about how he met her and all that, but She, like, she was um quite, ah she had a pretty successful business, like this, I'm not sure if i have it later, but it was like this nurse nurse staffing business.
Speaker: Oh, weird. Yeah, she was doing pretty well, but she told, so maybe that's how she was able to say, to convince him, like, I can help you with your financial in so like not insecurities but burdens are you know how you're having to manage all these people and everything but well that's like the biggest thing you need to set yourself up or you will yeah not succeed like and you'll be worse off like right like get a real financial advisor maybe like a professional in that
Speaker: Because she's not in that field. for like Yeah. And then you also have to be really careful because even professionals give like wrong advice, that kind of stuff, too. Like, yeah, that's true.
Speaker: Yeah, i always i always so unfortunate I always think back because it's somebody, either somebody that one of my brother's friends knows or somebody my brother like works. Friend of a friend. to work with Like friends, something like that, that went a lot.
Speaker: a lot of money um in the lottery. Oh, damn. Like multiple, multiple, multiple millions, if not like so somewhere in the tens of millions because this guy bought, um it was like a new new development or something.
Speaker: um They were building like an entire subdivision. He bought all of the houses in like a cul-de-sac, but like, oh, like 11 houses or something like just 11 of them in the row And then he had one of the houses, I think one of the houses he had ah put in the basement, like a really, really nice like basement suite.
Speaker: And he decided he's living in the basement suite and he it like, All the houses were bought and then he rents them all out.
Speaker: um And the guy doesn't work anymore. But what he does at the beginning of every month is he literally just goes to all of the people on the street and are like, give me rent. And then he goes back into his basement suite and just plays like video games all day. But the guy's like a millionaire. But he's just like sitting on all of these properties. he would be like That's all he wanted. He's like, that's all I need. He's like, I don't need a whole house.
Speaker: I sit here. He's like, I can keep an eye on the whole block. These are all of my investments. I know what's going on. i am right here if something's wrong. Yeah. And then he's like, yeah, and like, real estate is one of the best investments you can do.
Speaker: So like, he got that on him. He didn't, he didn't do anything outlandish. Like, that you would know about like looking at him, he doesn't drive like a crazy car. He doesn't have a crazy, crazy house, but he owns like 11 properties. Yeah. Like, it's like like, that's crazy. But like, if you Yeah, it's like if you didn't know that, you wouldn't, looking at that street, know that, like, one person owns all these houses, right?
Speaker: No, you didn't want anybody to know that. Yeah. No, and, like, yeah, my brother never told me anything else about him, so, like, but I assume it's probably still working out for him because, like, yeah housing is still, even if the houses aren't worth anything property, like, of the actual, like,
Speaker: ground the lot is still worth money so yeah it seems a wise investment yeah i was like oh that's actually a really cool like and then he's like yeah he's always just like going on vacation doing whatever playing video games all day long like just goes around it's hard because yeah like you can do one purchase yeah like like um So you purchase a car outright or something. like it yeah It depreciates so much. yes Yeah. Not as good of an investment.
Speaker: No. And yeah, he my brother's like, yeah, he worked with like a financial advisor and like this is some of the recommendations they did, like keep it to like property and um make your money work for you. Don't do anything crazy that like you can't control and like all that kind of stuff. It's like, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I just thought that was fascinating. I was like, hmm, he actually seems like he figured that out decently. But it would be hard. It's hard. Yeah, i like you get rich and famous young or whatever, and you're like, ah, what do I do?
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, all that to say, he he did struggle with his windfall and managing all the requests and things. And so then i think that's probably why when this person kind of swoops in and says she can help him with some of that financial strain, because she's a successful business owner. yeah He said, sure. And they open up together or she gets him to open up the Abraham Shakespeare LLC. So essentially like a
Speaker: what What we would probably make this into if we were American podcasters actually making money. We would have an LLC. Because it's a limited liability company or something it stands for. I don't know.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. It's just like a small business sort of. Yeah.
Speaker: All that to say, we love you, but donate on Patreon. We'll get there. Yeah. Currently, I don't think we make it up. We have to report it to the tax man. No.
Speaker: We need to pay for our websites. yeah Oh, my God. I was just going to say, like, Patreon. Squarespace. Too much money.
Speaker: And it's just getting worse. Like, yeah. Sorry, guys. You can let us know if you... um we've talked about maybe getting rid of the website yeah because we can put pictures and stuff on socials yeah yeah like focus more on facebook for pictures instagram and that kind of stuff um yeah the reddit the website does get young people decent like views and hits but i mean we're paying almost like
Speaker: $300 a year now for the domain and it does everything. so Yeah, I don't think it instigates much new traffic. No, exactly.
Speaker: like when I Google us, I'm like, it's like the fourth thing that comes up. I'm like. oh Yeah. um So yeah, that's something we've talked about it. We are yeah keeping it in our back pocket that it might happen. We'll see. The website's paid for for another year. true Yeah.
Speaker: But it might be better used elsewhere to punch up some Patreon or some. Yes. Equipment and studio stuff like so we could do more stuff like that. that could Yeah.
Speaker: I think it would be beneficial to focus on that and yeah the website. Which sucks because like honestly ah so but there's been so many generous we've had so many generous paid patrons and stuff where I look and it'll show like all time how much you know like someone's much monthly contributions have actually donated to your show and you're like holy shit, you like invested like hundreds of dollars in us. I love you. like when you look at it like that, it makes you feel like, they like us. They really like us.
Speaker: ah Yeah, it was hard if we could redirect that yeah money like elsewhere. so if you have any ideas or anything like that, we would love to hear...
Speaker: Oh my God. Yeah. Does someone want to be a social media manager? and Like they've got one for work here to help just by talking about it on their pod. Anyway.
Speaker: Okay. Sorry. So back to this sad, sad case. so Yeah, how have we made this episode also almost two hours long? My case was a a page and a half.
Speaker: It took us 50 minutes. We were not going to have a problem.
Speaker: okay
Speaker: Okay. So sadly, after she, an ah Shakespeare helped set up the So named after him LLC. She then withdrew 1 million from the company, ah bought herself a Hummer, a Chevy Corvette, and a truck.
Speaker: So she didn't hold back. Damn. She then went on vacation. i believe all of which things she afterwards claimed were gifts to her.
Speaker: so Oh yes, because he didn't even seem to buy those things for himself. ah Yeah. He's hardly splashing out at all. I don't I've heard someone say like that.
Speaker: Yeah. So yeah, she's splurging on money that she didn't win. Yeah. Oh, yes. And then they got that weird tip off from the phone call to his mother. So now they search the house that this Dee Dee Moore lady is living in, which was actually Abraham's house. And they search it. Oh, OK.
Speaker: Yeah. And what did they find in the backyard? A relatively fresh concrete slab. Just poured out. Oh, my God. Little area there. so I'm putting in a hot tub. You yeah can just put it in a deck. You don't need concrete.
Speaker: Unfortunately, Abraham's remains were buried several feet under the slab. She'd been living in the house that he had owned, telling people he was alive and well, and texting his family and asking people to help her move his body all at the same time.
Speaker: Wow. She sucks. Real piece of work, this one. Yeah, especially like it sounds like she had a relatively successful business of her own. So yeah it's not like she's some sort of weird con artist scammer by trade. Like, what is this weird grift?
Speaker: It's like you could have been nicely successful yourself and not in fucking jail.
Speaker: Yes. on one hand, exactly that. She did not seem to be struggling and just, you know, like everyone around him seemed to get big greedy dollar sign eyes.
Speaker: I did look into her background. Oh no. i spoke too soon. a red flag. She's done this 30 times before.
Speaker: No, but at the time it's like she, there was, she did not need to, but yes. So they did look into Doris more. She'd been previously married, had a son um at one point, a successful business or no, I know. yeah I know she has a successful business. Sorry. That was the way I wrote the sentence, but she had a shady past.
Speaker: It included some insurance fraud charges that happened in 2001, followed by the vague falsely reporting a crime, which I didn't get too much more information on. Yeah, that got her one year of probation. Yeah. um Oh, so must have been a decent crime.
Speaker: Yeah. Like the, it was, yeah, it was either that or, or also the insurance fraud charges, i think together or whatever, like, but she got one year probation. Yeah. And then she quickly followed for, or filed for bankruptcy the following year in 2002. So those were some blips, um,
Speaker: Yeah, mean, fraud charges and stuff. Still. that'll That'll stop you from getting a job easy. yeah It's like, so then why if you've... Just what everybody is looking for on a resume. Fraud But it seems like you've crawled out of that at this point. If she was... Yeah.
Speaker: Money laundering. I don't know. ah Yeah. something Nursing staffing thing.
Speaker: Anyway, she apparently just flailed the whole time, like telling people that ah she, yeah, she was with Abraham, but then he went to Texas or he went to Jamaica or to Puerto Rico or Orlando or he was in the hospital.
Speaker: What? She really can't lie. Pick a story and stick to it. Yeah. Like all over the place. I'm like, I thought I was a bad liar. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so the tip came in like November of the year before. She's taken into custody finally in February of 2010 and held on a $1 million dollar bond.
Speaker: Yes, Dr. Evil would say. She showed police. Oh, she had recorded conversations of her with ah Shakespeare of them talking and pointed out that he was so frustrated. So he obviously just needed to skip town and that's what she had helped him do because was just so mad yeah i mean yeah obviously he was annoyed everyone asking for money from him but yeah she was using this as here let me give you all of it yeah yeah
Speaker: yeah she's like well obviously he's not here because he he couldn't deal with all these people asking him for money so i helped him leave anyway She claimed she'd helped Shakespeare leave town quietly, but quiet was not in her nature. She had spoken to multiple people several times about her helping her move a body like a week after remains were buried.
Speaker: Can you please help me move a body? hey guys uh any recommendations anybody just like on facebook when it's like the looking for recommendations help me move a body oh god some of those come up under the reddit entitled people body movers um i have six kids i was just wondering if anybody could help move all their body moving moving company discreet um low cost efficient yeah free because i'm hurting oh my god she is yeah she right out to lunch i tell you she apparently asked another person if they would just like she's like um if you could just take the blame i'll give you fifty thousand dollars
Speaker: $50,000 to take the blame for the rest of your life? No. You better be giving me like $10 million dollars to go to prison for you.
Speaker: Oh, God. $50,000 is like what get some people get paid in one year. You're asking me to fuck up the rest of my life. I'll give you one year of salary. No.
Speaker: No. Also, she doesn't have it. Yeah. Jesus. That's the worst. um Yeah, i was like, all this while living in his house and texting his relatives on his behalf.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah Did she even access the rest of his money? Probably not. So, like, what are you doing? Like, he doesn't have an account? Like, he doesn't have fucking bank accounts? Like, what can you access? It's 2010, you said?
Speaker: Do you even have online banking? on the phone Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mostly through the LLC they had formed, I believe. But I think she may have also been able to... I thought something said finagle like a like he was getting us a payout.
Speaker: But I was like, oh, I thought he got a like lump sum payout. So I'm not sure, but she may have managed to get access to some of the lottery funds. put like a fake fake people on payroll or something and embezzled the money out.
Speaker: a layer of deceit like that yeah some more fraud because she is yeah um oh yeah then she told cops that he was dead because of a ah drug deal like drug dealers drug deal gone wrong hu then it briefly said that a lawyer killed him and finally she blamed her own 14 year old son What?
Speaker: Oh my god. You think she can't suck anymore. Anybody. Any stranger she finds on the street killed this guy. She's just so dumb. i don't get it.
Speaker: What were you thinking? Everybody killed him. The whole world conspired to kill him. oh She's a victim too. so bad Wow.
Speaker: that's crazy gee i wonder why you're not with your husband anymore and no you sound you sound great you found very stable and like oh totally all so trustworthy my god yeah so this goes to trial thank god um And, ah oh, yes, the guy she got to help do the phone call, the Greg Smith guy, he testifies against her. He's totally cooperating with police. He felt really bad. Yeah. He says he didn't know that she had killed Shakespeare. Oh, okay.
Speaker: Hard to say, but like he obviously cooperated after that point, after making the false phone call. um And then all this actually did help to convict Doris Moore of first degree murder in December of 2012.
Speaker: So. Damn. Yeah. The judge said, you ma'am can fuck off life in prison, no parole, even though she's since tried to get parole like three times already. oh my God. Yeah.
Speaker: In an interview with 2020, she said, I feel there's a lot of ignorance in the world that does not understand that it was a one-sided trial.
Speaker: What? Despite her filing? What was your side? That you wanted $17 million? dollars was just like i don't know what to say to that. i'm just going to let that sit there.
Speaker: You're misinterpreting my what motive. don't like I know the only details I could find on the judge or the request kind of was like she had tried to file a motion for a new trial in 2023 due to adequate inadequate defense but she'd been denied.
Speaker: Yeah. like Who could defend any of that? I'm sorry. was her right to this man 17 million dollars.
Speaker: don't know. the hell she's so bad at all of it just like she'd never shut up just like help me move a body help me take the blame like ah what oh my god you're spinning out uh also yeah i don't know she deserves it and i'm and i didn't put any pictures in drive and i don't know that this matters but she's a stupid crazy white lady and he was a black guy and i'm glad like he kind of got justice that she got life without fucking parole because she sucks.
Speaker: Yeah. Seems like she had a weird history too. oh Yeah. What was her deal? He was only 40 something.
Speaker: so we go ah He seemed like a real good guy. He just wanted to live like a simple life. And then like, he was like, oh shit, want some money. And then like, didn't do anything too crazy splashy. And then, This snake in the grass comes out of nowhere and just like fucking preys on him at his most vulnerable time. It's just like really shitty that way. Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, she condemned herself. And then. oh yeah. It's called consequences. Yeah. Again, don't murder somebody. It's not that hard to not murder people. I don't know if anybody ever told you that. It's actually really easy not to kill people intentionally. It's the easiest thing I've ever done.
Speaker: And then, like, could not stop from, like, the texting and the, like, now call her and pretend you're him and he's still alive. Blah, blah, blah. Like, just spinning out. And you're like, dude. Anyway.
Speaker: Anyway. weird it makes me feel really shitty yes thanks i hate it i know money motivated crimes are so frustrating and just think that is is yeah it it never makes it worth it even 17 million dollars doesn't make it worth it and we've talked about crimes where people have murdered somebody for like a grand and been like it wasn't worth it but even 17 million yeah
Speaker: that they're like i'm gonna rob this person eight bucks yeah you're like fuck you yeah what did you think you idiot you ah oh yeah sorry right yeah it's crazy and like yeah that's how we you you guys know we're like have to tell it and then i have to make these horrible jokes because it's so hard to hear um also ah pat's character brutally murdered someone in dnd last night i will just say that i got back downstairs i was like wait he did what oh wait this guy's got some money on him
Speaker: Check his pockets. did it become the murder party? um For some reason, that made me think of that one scary movie.
Speaker: I can't remember which. this Is it the first one? i think it's the first one. oh the one like the scary movie parody movies? Yeah. Yeah. Where they make fun of um I Know What You Did Last Summer where that guy gets killed. Yeah. He was like, oh shit, check his pockets. And they're like, oh cool, I found his wallet. Before they dumped his body. It's like, yeah. Do the smart thing.
Speaker: I found eight bucks. Oh my god. Totally worth it. yeah Yeah. Oh my god. Oh
Speaker: Damn. You guys. True crime. why did we do it Why did we do this to ourselves? always always a wild one like come on oh yeah that's uh yeah yes there was one in the listicle where um uh someone on the internet was going through a depressed period and it was it was like the opposite where i was like oh Maybe I could have included the listicle part. But anyway, it's they somebody like put out almost like a cry for help. And one of their followers saw it on their social media and was able to alert the authorities in time to go help the person who they did. They wouldn't name the person because they were like underage, but they actually were able to stop them. They had attempted suicide, basically. And that's nice.
Speaker: yeah the the follower the person on the internet had figured this out and they were able to get authorities like there to intervene in time and i was like oh like a total opposite like like they were able to save a life yeah it's like nice you hear about the um Yeah, not too often you hear the benefits of social media anymore. or why yeah or the it of the internet sleuths kind of thing, as we call them. It's like, it can be used for bad, but but but for good sometimes, too. Just being able to like yeah figure someone else's location or something like that. Like some other information. You're like, wo scary. It can be scary. how what p give Yeah, people can figure out, like, god damn.
Speaker: don't you people yeah sorry Don't you people also have full-time jobs? Like, come on. I know. Some people are so good at it. Like the Christine from and That's Why We Drink. She's like, give me their first name. I'll figure out who you're talking about. Your crush. That's scary.
Speaker: Yeah. Thanks. she might have worked for a private investigator for a while well maybe you pick up some skills but no it's like that show we watch um we watch person of interest and in the intro it's like it's basically like yeah all the cctv like kind of supercomputer scary stuff it's like yeah you are being watched but they yeah he built a supercomputer to try and detect like more like the pre-crime sort of situation like as in Kind of like Minority Report, but it was like they built the supercomputer to try and detect acts of terrorism.
Speaker: But now it detects all crimes. Anyway. Victim or perpetrator, if your number comes up, they'll find you. very good.
Speaker: And the music is done by the same guy that does his soundtrack for Game of Thrones. So there you go. oh nice. Gordo's glaring at me. Sorry I pooped your ear while you were asleep.
Speaker: That's funny. I thought it would be funny at the time. I asked Pat who directed the account and he goes, I don't know. I don't follow directors. I go, yeah, I guess that's me and you's difference from Kelsey. We don't pay attention to that stuff. I might pay attention to the the soundtrack.
Speaker: but I don't normally pay attention to that. no, no. Sometimes you just like mention something about like a director or something and I'm like, oh, makes me yeah feel like more of a film buff if I know a director, but I don't always know the directors.
Speaker: Yeah. Anyway. It's all good. Everyone appreciates movies differently. Yeah. Even bad ones. Even cringy... ah over the top i one of the one of the reviews on letterboxd for hack hackers okay i was like what was the one you're talking about right hackers yeah it was like oh this movie wasn't great but you can always tell matthew lillard puts 110 into every role and i was like yeah you can because he was god in it
Speaker: i was like oh yeah i've never seen him in something i didn't enjoy yeah he's oh he just makes everything so funny did you see him in the stream seven yet or not really uh not that that it wasn't that good overall but he showed up not until it comes out and like streaming for free i don't hate paying for stuff now it's it's it's been out long enough that you know the whole spoilers i think we told you he doesn't really come back it's more like they're like oh it's someone using his face as ai and his character's not really alive and everybody wanted his character to still be alive even though he got a tv on his head and you know oh yeah yeah wow that's still fun to see him
Speaker: ah Yeah. I like him. I've always liked him. yeah. He's great. that Yeah. The Scooby-Doo. Yeah. Yep. That was probably the first thing I ever saw him in.
Speaker: I love him as Shaggy. Yeah. It's pretty good. oh Yeah. All right. Well, that's what's up with us. See you next time. We touched on what we were going to talk about. I think you foreshadowed it. Yeah.
Speaker: um yeah look we have what's our what's our patreon episode i forgot that one
Speaker: i just forgot i put it in my thing and then i hold on i have to open it i don't have my windows open so i think my list is messed up again I have African folktales written down and then cold cases next. I don't even have this one written.
Speaker: oh
Speaker: Yeah, our Patreon will be cold cases. And then our next regular episode is cursed media.
Speaker: okay. There we go. That's what it was Yeah. ah had all right I had to update my list. my tab Yeah. Okay. a new all Catch you guys then.
Speaker: Yes. Whatever that Thanks for hanging out.
Speaker: All right. Bye-bye. Bye.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to Castles and Cryptids. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate, and download. Our music is by Kobe Offair and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia.
Speaker: We are also a proud member of DirkCast Network, where you can find the best and spookiest of all indie podcasts. Follow us on social media, where we are at Castles Encrypted on mostly all of the things, now including TikTok. Check out our bonus content on Patreon.
Speaker: cryptid clashes, video mini-sodes of your hosts making asses of themselves, ask me anything, quizzes, other special episodes, and more. Starting at just $2 a month, you can get one to two extra episodes, depending on your level.
Speaker: We produce, edit, and research everything ourselves, and any support you can lend helps us to keep it cryptic.
