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Emma Payne: Mobile Technology for People who Are Grieving
4 Plays2 years ago
Have you ever struggled on what to say to people who are grieving the death of a loved one? Worried that what you plan to say can trigger more emotional stress instead of alleviating the hurt and unintentionally cause a loved one pain?
Grieving is hard, but a strong support system in the form of family and friends can dramatically alter everything for the grieving person. Thankfully, getting and becoming a good support does not have to be hard.
This week's guest on the Glam Reaper Podcast, Emma Payne, will talk about how she used her expertise and passion for technology to give people the confidence and tools they need to cope with grief.
Take a listen as Jennifer and Emma talk about how providing support during a time of loss can be a profound experience. Support is just a text away!
LITTLE NUGGETS OF GOLD:
- What is ‘Grief Coach’ and what prompted Emma to launch it?
- How can people obtain a subscription to ‘Grief Coach?
- Emma’s thoughts on the fear of saying or doing something
- How does the subscription work?
- Was there a situation where the subscription went wrong?
- What are some ways that the industry still lacks expertise in several areas and is not updated with the current trends?
- Is ‘Grief Coach’ just available in Ireland or is it available globally?
- What are Emma’s thoughts on the future of the funeral business?
Connect with Emma Payne:
Note: Grief Coach is now Help Texts
Website - https://helptexts.com/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/helptexts
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/helptexts/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/help_texts
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/help.texts/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@helptexts
Vimeo - https://vimeo.com/helptexts
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper:
Facebook Page - Muldowney Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Facebook Page - Rainbow Bridge Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/rainbowbridgememorialsdotcom
Instagram - @muldowneymemorials & @jennifermuldowney
Twitter - @TheGlamReaper
Email us here: glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Glam Reaper Podcast and Grief Coach
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
00:00:03
Speaker
I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper herself and on today's episode we talk to the grief coach Emma and she's going to tell us how she uses technology and something that we use every day to help the bereaved.
00:00:18
Speaker
Let's get away.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney and today I have a lady called Emma Payne with me.
00:00:39
Speaker
Payne might be her last name but and I'm sure she's heard this before but she is working on easing that for others and so I'm very excited to welcome this guest Emma and she's doing lots of work actually in the UK and Ireland so I think she's going to be interesting to all our listeners on either side of the Atlantic.
00:00:57
Speaker
So welcome Emma.
Emma Payne's Personal Grief Journey
00:00:58
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:00:59
Speaker
Really pleased to be here.
00:01:01
Speaker
Great.
00:01:02
Speaker
So tell us a little bit about you.
00:01:06
Speaker
If nobody knows who you are or what grief coach is, tell us exactly what it is about.
00:01:12
Speaker
What on earth I'm up to?
00:01:14
Speaker
Exactly.
00:01:17
Speaker
That's actually really funny about the last name.
00:01:18
Speaker
In all the interviews I've done, no one said that, but you're right about that.
00:01:21
Speaker
That's funny.
00:01:22
Speaker
Wow.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:26
Speaker
I had thought about it because I have a friend, Katrina, who is doing work in green burials and also is quite well known in her work.
00:01:34
Speaker
And her last name is Spade.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:36
Speaker
She's in burials.
00:01:36
Speaker
So we have to joke about Katrina Spade and Emma Payne.
00:01:39
Speaker
But so, yes, let's see.
Inception and Functionality of Grief Coach
00:01:44
Speaker
I so.
00:01:46
Speaker
Six years ago now, my friend died and I was part of his sort of six-month terminal diagnosis was with him when he died and he had asked me to speak at his funeral.
00:01:59
Speaker
And I, of course, agreed to do that.
00:02:02
Speaker
But it was a difficult ask because he was the best friend and also the second cousin of my husband who had died a decade prior by suicide.
00:02:12
Speaker
So essentially what I had agreed to do was fly across the country and stand in front of hundreds of people, many of whom I hadn't seen or heard from in a long time since my husband had died.
00:02:24
Speaker
But it ended up being a really positive and quite profound experience because I essentially spent all the way through the pub night and everything else, essentially spent 72 hours with people saying,
00:02:36
Speaker
Oh my goodness, Emma, I'm so sorry I didn't reach out.
00:02:39
Speaker
I wanted to, but I wasn't sure what to say.
00:02:42
Speaker
I didn't know anybody who died before, this kind of thing.
00:02:45
Speaker
So I, and at that point in my career, I had spent about 20 years building web and mobile applications for things like suicide intervention work, getting young people registered to vote.
00:02:59
Speaker
So I believed very much in the power of mobile technology to help with behavior change.
00:03:05
Speaker
And so when I was flying back from the funeral, I just thought, this is ridiculous.
00:03:11
Speaker
I mean, I spent 10 years not hearing from the people I would have liked to hear from.
00:03:15
Speaker
And 100 people spent a decade genuinely feeling badly that they failed me, that they hadn't done what they wish, feeling awkward and embarrassed that they hadn't known what to do when their friend's husband died.
00:03:30
Speaker
So on my plane back to Seattle, I actually mapped out all of what Grief Coach would become, fully assuming that by the time the plane landed and I got on Wi-Fi, I would see that it already existed.
00:03:42
Speaker
But it didn't.
00:03:44
Speaker
So, yeah, I started building it off the side of my desk, quit my job in 2019, and I've been doing it full time.
00:03:51
Speaker
And so Grief Coach is a text messaging platform.
00:03:56
Speaker
We deliver direct expert grief support to people who are grieving customized based on all sorts of things, cause of death, age, relationship.
00:04:06
Speaker
So if your husband died in a car accident, different message than if your mom died of cancer and so on.
00:04:12
Speaker
But every subscription includes, um, gentle coaching tips, date reminders for friends and family who want to help and might not be sure how.
00:04:20
Speaker
And so that's why my sort of beginning story matters because,
00:04:26
Speaker
I'm certainly proud that we're giving great support to grievers, but I think the real magic is when we send those tips and reminders to the people who want to help and just don't know how.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah.
Personal Reflections on Grief and Community Support
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's what we're doing.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great service and it's not in some ways dissimilar to my own story because what the catalyst for me was getting into it was
00:04:51
Speaker
Two friends of mine who passed away and while they were my friends and I was dealing with more mortality, they were also siblings of my best friends.
00:04:59
Speaker
And so while I was dealing with my grief, I was dealing with also another form of grief, which was how to support.
00:05:05
Speaker
a best friend and be there.
00:05:07
Speaker
And I remember one of them, I put together a care package and I, you know, I drove halfway across, okay, the country in Ireland's not, that wasn't a huge deal.
00:05:17
Speaker
It's like driving from New York to not even Boston.
00:05:21
Speaker
But anyway, I drove halfway across the country with the package and, you know, it meant the world to my friend.
00:05:29
Speaker
And I guess in some ways I'm lucky insofar as I just,
00:05:34
Speaker
Obviously, because I now do what I do, but I had that gene or whatever we want to call it, that empathy.
00:05:41
Speaker
I just knew what to do at the right time.
00:05:43
Speaker
I'm lucky insofar as I didn't know what to do.
00:05:45
Speaker
I just went with what I felt was right and what they might have needed in the moment.
00:05:51
Speaker
So I definitely think there, you know.
00:05:53
Speaker
It's not just the immediate family that grieves.
00:05:56
Speaker
It's the wider community and they don't know.
00:06:00
Speaker
And I find with like on Instagram and a lot of the funeral accounts that I follow, you know, they'll say, don't say this.
00:06:09
Speaker
Don't say I'm sorry for your loss.
00:06:10
Speaker
Don't say, don't say, you know, all of don't, don't, don't.
00:06:14
Speaker
But there's not that many out there that are do, do.
00:06:17
Speaker
And this is encouraging.
00:06:18
Speaker
And this is.
00:06:19
Speaker
And some of them are great and some of them are, are,
00:06:22
Speaker
not so great um and I guess you have to apply them to your own personal situation but so how does the subscription work so say for example and my poor parents they get killed off in every podcast but anyway say for example I've lost my parents god love them um they are so very alive thank god but um say for example I've lost my parents do I subscribe is it gifted to me by maybe the funeral home or by a friend and how does that what's the logistics I guess
00:06:49
Speaker
Yes, it can work in all sorts of ways.
00:06:52
Speaker
So often it's that the funeral home or the hospice or an organization purchases it and passes it along to you and says, you know, here's something that can help you with your grief this year.
00:07:05
Speaker
But people also just buy them themselves on Instagram.
00:07:07
Speaker
And we do have gift subscriptions as well.
00:07:10
Speaker
So people also, you know, it's less than the price of a bouquet of flowers, really, to give someone a full year of support as a sympathy gift.
00:07:18
Speaker
So all three of those things happen.
00:07:20
Speaker
I love what you just said about the don't, don't, don't.
00:07:22
Speaker
That's my absolute pet peeve.
00:07:24
Speaker
I say it again and again to anyone that will listen.
Encouraging Supportive Actions in Grieving
00:07:27
Speaker
If we keep telling people what not to do, then it's our own fault if people are too afraid to say anything.
00:07:33
Speaker
They're just creating this fear that, oh my gosh, what if I say the wrong thing?
00:07:39
Speaker
That of course, the only wrong thing is to vanish.
00:07:42
Speaker
And all of this kind of fear-based thing, what if this and don't do that, I think is a real disservice.
00:07:48
Speaker
It's so much what we see each and every day is that people do want to help.
00:07:54
Speaker
And with a few simple nudgings and encouragements and reminders and specific suggestions, they're very pleased to do it.
00:08:03
Speaker
And it's, yeah, I think all the don't, don't, don'ts are great.
00:08:06
Speaker
a real problem at the moment yeah they're really they're just not helpful at all it's people will just don't do anything then exactly right then you just freeze because then you think oh my goodness what if I do say the wrong thing yeah well that's it and honestly I've yet to come across somebody grieving who was violently upset at somebody saying I'm sorry for your loss like if that's
00:08:28
Speaker
Even if in the moment, it's the only thing that comes to mind because it's the most generic thing there is out there.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's still as long as it's said with some sort of authenticity, then it's fine.
00:08:38
Speaker
So now hiding in the bushes.
00:08:40
Speaker
Yeah, I got to have that yet.
00:08:44
Speaker
So my next question, I guess, would be so.
00:08:47
Speaker
So say again, sorry, my dad.
00:08:48
Speaker
So say they passed away and say the funeral home has gifted me with this.
00:08:52
Speaker
How do my friends get involved or how does that work?
00:08:56
Speaker
So you add them in.
00:08:57
Speaker
So whoever the subscriber is, the griever, owns their subscription for the year and you can edit it and change it as you like.
00:09:04
Speaker
It takes five minutes to sign up.
00:09:05
Speaker
So you share as much as you're comfortable sharing.
00:09:08
Speaker
But as long as you tell us your name and the name of the person that's died and your birthday so that we just know that you're not a teenager or whatever, you will get a full 12 months of messages at least twice a week, extra ones on whichever holidays you tell us are important to you if you tell us
00:09:24
Speaker
that Easter and Christmas are important to you, then you'll get messages around those dates.
00:09:27
Speaker
If you choose to share the date that your mom died, you would get messages around that.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then you have a choice of adding in some friends who want to support you and then they will get texts as well.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
And anybody that anybody can stop and start whenever they want.
00:09:44
Speaker
They just text back, stop and start.
00:09:46
Speaker
So people can take a break if they want to.
00:09:49
Speaker
And yeah.
00:09:51
Speaker
And I have to ask, I'm hoping the answer is no, but I have to ask, has a text ever gone awry?
00:09:58
Speaker
Has it ever gone?
00:10:00
Speaker
you know, poorly or badly, or has there ever been a terrible story or, you know, where not necessarily your fault, but for whatever reason, something has gone.
00:10:10
Speaker
We're pretty obsessive.
00:10:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:13
Speaker
And we have a bereavement team that's looking carefully at, we see queued messages for the next day.
00:10:18
Speaker
So we're quite careful.
00:10:19
Speaker
We haven't had, we, I, um, early on when we were still sort of, you know, just had 40 or 50 subscribers and we were practicing, we had one where, um,
00:10:29
Speaker
Because we didn't origin, well, first of all, we launched the company in February 2019.
00:10:33
Speaker
And then a year later, a global pandemic began.
00:10:36
Speaker
So we had had to add a cause of death to the system, which we never really imagined doing.
00:10:42
Speaker
So we added this whole new cause of death, which meant that messages that had been tagged for certain causes of death needed to be re-tagged.
00:10:50
Speaker
And in that shuffle, we had, it was a stillbirth, stillbirths are very,
00:10:57
Speaker
tricky for us system-wise because you don't talk you could say your baby was stillborn as opposed to died or and so we had one where luckily it was a test account so it didn't go to a real person but you know there was a mix-up where it seemed as though the person had lived a life like share a favorite memory of your time with Susie right and Susie being still born yeah but luckily it didn't actually oh god yeah it's like I mean I
00:11:26
Speaker
the only fear I guess I would have with something like that, and it can happen to anything, anyone, any, you know, it doesn't necessarily apply to just text messages, is that, you know, working in this business, you know, somebody could pass away today and a text message could land in two weeks time and somebody else could have passed away on them or some other catastrophic, terrible thing.
00:11:51
Speaker
And suddenly you've got this text message and you're like,
00:11:56
Speaker
I mean, I try to live, I will tell you that the first year or so after I quit my job and we were sending the texts out, I would just lie in bed thinking, oh my gosh, like, you know, exactly, exactly those kinds of worries.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah.
Grief Coach's Mission and Global Reach
00:12:09
Speaker
But I've actually come around to a different thing, which is to live what I just said was we have to be based, we have to live driven by love and not fear.
00:12:19
Speaker
So if we help a thousand people and one person get something that wasn't spot on, well, so be it.
00:12:28
Speaker
And so sort of a year into the journey, I was able to make that adjustment to myself and just think,
00:12:33
Speaker
Emma, you sold your house, you quit your job, you're spending all your waking hours trying to support grieving people and the people around them.
00:12:40
Speaker
So if someone gets something that's not exactly right, you're going to forgive yourself that myth.
00:12:45
Speaker
It hasn't happened, though.
00:12:48
Speaker
But the other thing I'd say is that we started last September, we started surveying.
00:12:54
Speaker
So let's say a hospice or a funeral home buys a whole package of subscriptions, gives them out, then we can actually survey their users and ask them about their experience.
00:13:03
Speaker
And it's absolutely overwhelming.
00:13:05
Speaker
Like our average positive response rate is like 96% giving us a five out of five or four out of five for is it helpful?
00:13:12
Speaker
So in fact, not only have we not had the mistakes, such would, but it's generally a really positive experience because we remember all their important dates and we use the name of the person who's died and we're being very
00:13:25
Speaker
supportive and empathetic and practical and giving them resources specific to stillbirth if their child was stillborn.
00:13:31
Speaker
You know, it's very, it feels very personal for people, I think.
00:13:34
Speaker
It's great.
00:13:36
Speaker
It really is.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I was having a conversation with somebody just today where, you know, we were talking about how the industry, and I know some people, some of my listeners don't like me calling it an industry, but sorry, I'm going to keep calling it that, how they, you know,
00:13:54
Speaker
you know, when a family walks into a funeral home, they really are so dependent on the funeral director's expertise.
00:14:01
Speaker
And as we all know, you know, you're a human being, I'm a human being.
00:14:06
Speaker
We all have different capacities for expertise and we all have different areas that we shine in and things like that.
00:14:13
Speaker
And it's really just come to my attention that, you know, family comes in and they sit down and
00:14:18
Speaker
If, for example, you mentioned Katrina Spade and her, you know, natural decomposition and turning into soil, she, you know, if a funeral director is maybe extremely old school or doesn't sort of update on new trends and new, you know, disposal methods, they may never offer that.
00:14:39
Speaker
And that's that's where it kind of becomes a little bit more serious than just the person sitting in front of you not having the expertise.
00:14:46
Speaker
And I found that quite a lot.
00:14:48
Speaker
I've actually just did a celebrant service today, too, actually.
00:14:52
Speaker
And.
00:14:54
Speaker
It shocks me every day how few funeral homes here in the US know what a celebrant is.
00:15:00
Speaker
And to me, that's an old trend at this point.
00:15:03
Speaker
I'm kind of like, what?
00:15:05
Speaker
We're eons ahead talking about other things.
00:15:07
Speaker
So I am absolutely on a similar vein.
00:15:12
Speaker
It absolutely boggles my mind each time we speak to large mental health providers where they're
00:15:21
Speaker
Therapists have no bereavement experience, for example, at all.
00:15:24
Speaker
We had a launch meeting yesterday with a client that was actually, they operate multiple organ procurement organizations and tissue banks.
00:15:35
Speaker
So they want to provide grief support to their bereaved families, the people who are the families of the donor of the organ.
00:15:43
Speaker
But they have like one bereavement person in one state and thousands of deaths.
00:15:49
Speaker
There's no way that that person can speak all the languages that the families might want or have all the expertise in both suicide loss and accidents and traumatic loss and cancer loss.
00:16:01
Speaker
It's impossible.
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:04
Speaker
So, yeah, I agree.
00:16:06
Speaker
We have these.
00:16:07
Speaker
industries full of well-meaning, lovely people, but the scale of the need is large and also diverse, right?
00:16:17
Speaker
People are looking for support and can't find what they need.
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah, and that's it.
00:16:23
Speaker
And I mean, I guess with what you're doing, the fact that you're sending, which is where we all look these days is at our phones.
00:16:31
Speaker
And you're sending that those resources.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yes, the advice and the warm words, but equally the resources that somebody might need in that moment or can pass on to somebody else.
00:16:44
Speaker
I mean, it's the first place we turn to for anything these days is online.
00:16:47
Speaker
And even more so, we have online now in the palm of our hand.
00:16:52
Speaker
And in some ways, the world is getting, it's getting nearly even more fragmented, but it's getting more together in some respects, you know, like the internet is bringing us all together, but it's equally putting us in little pockets.
00:17:06
Speaker
So, you know, it's trying to, I can, you know, I'm not a funeral home, but I
00:17:12
Speaker
the old community that was once there is not.
00:17:15
Speaker
I mean, in New York City here, it's such a diverse city.
00:17:19
Speaker
It doesn't matter where you are, you can't physically speak to everybody in the community.
00:17:24
Speaker
It just doesn't work that way, whether it's language or culture or whatever that might be.
00:17:30
Speaker
Now, are you in the UK and Ireland as well?
00:17:32
Speaker
Are you global?
00:17:33
Speaker
We are.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yes, we're delivering text globally now.
00:17:39
Speaker
And I think we're in, so far we have subscribers in 18 countries and we're offering support in 14 languages so far.
00:17:48
Speaker
The UK is, you know, I think our third or fourth biggest location at the moment and growing.
00:17:56
Speaker
And yeah, there's been actually quite a lot more happening in Ireland.
00:18:00
Speaker
I think that really just word is spreading and people are hearing about what we're doing and discovering us wherever.
00:18:07
Speaker
wherever they are, which is really lovely.
00:18:09
Speaker
Well, and it's exactly, you know, what we just said about the world, you know, is so transient.
00:18:14
Speaker
We're moving around.
00:18:14
Speaker
So somebody who might have used your subscription service here in New York might move back home to Ireland.
00:18:20
Speaker
Not me.
00:18:21
Speaker
Or they add a supporter in.
00:18:23
Speaker
You could be in New York and grieving, but your auntie's in England and she wants to support you.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:28
Speaker
I think like the technology thing about it's,
00:18:32
Speaker
we're so low tech compared to all the technical things that are out there.
00:18:36
Speaker
You don't have to download anything.
00:18:38
Speaker
You don't even need an internet connection.
00:18:40
Speaker
Um, there's nothing to install.
00:18:43
Speaker
Um, which people are always surprised to hear that 15% of our subscribers are over 65.
00:18:51
Speaker
Um, because it's text.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:54
Speaker
It feels personal, private and easy and we don't really think of it as technology.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
It's the thing that we have and we use it to connect with each other.
00:19:03
Speaker
We have people that we had a one, a man this week who I think was in the UK,
00:19:08
Speaker
And he was like, oh my goodness, I've accidentally deleted all the texts you've sent me.
00:19:13
Speaker
Can you send them back to me?
00:19:15
Speaker
I want to keep them all.
00:19:16
Speaker
And we said, yeah, absolutely.
00:19:17
Speaker
We can go back in because people keep texts.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yes, they do.
00:19:22
Speaker
And think of them as personal.
00:19:23
Speaker
And because the text messages are written, you know, hi, Jennifer, we're sorry your mom has died.
00:19:28
Speaker
Now I'm sorry, mom.
00:19:32
Speaker
But because they feel personal because they have everybody's names in it and people hang on to them.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
That's amazing that you wanted them resend.
00:19:43
Speaker
That's brilliant.
00:19:43
Speaker
And you could.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah, it was lovely.
00:19:45
Speaker
That's really nice.
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was lovely.
00:19:47
Speaker
We said, well, sure, we can resend them back too.
00:19:49
Speaker
We had a girl named Renee who was 17 when her mum died early in the pandemic.
00:19:55
Speaker
And she said to me that she said, oh, I haven't deleted any of them.
00:19:59
Speaker
I wait until after a third period and I can go in my room and I'm more of an introvert.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I don't want to go in a support group or do another zoom meeting, but I like having my texts and I can be in my room and think about my mom and read the different tips and suggestions and think about her.
00:20:15
Speaker
Wow.
00:20:15
Speaker
That's really powerful.
00:20:16
Speaker
Nice.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:17
Speaker
It's really nice.
00:20:18
Speaker
It's great to know that you're impacting people that way.
00:20:21
Speaker
Um, that's why I tell people, um,
00:20:25
Speaker
People always, my mother, be like, oh, this job must be so depressing.
00:20:28
Speaker
And I said, no, it's the opposite, actually.
00:20:30
Speaker
It's very heartwarming, wonderful, rich work.
00:20:33
Speaker
And I'm sure you find the same when people feel supported in their grief, when they can talk about the experience they're having.
00:20:39
Speaker
It's actually very profound and uplifting.
00:20:42
Speaker
It really is.
00:20:43
Speaker
When my family say to me after a celebrant service or a memorial,
00:20:48
Speaker
The way I describe it is even if I'm devastated and crying myself in the moment for the loss that these people are suffering, it's weird because I feel like my heart grows bigger each time.
00:21:00
Speaker
It's just like I have a new family now that I've added in.
Innovations in the Funeral Industry
00:21:04
Speaker
It's like my little tree of life, like a new little branch because you're always a part, you're an intrinsic part of that family history forever because you were a part of that day.
00:21:14
Speaker
So, yeah, it's a really...
00:21:17
Speaker
Beautiful thing.
00:21:19
Speaker
Now, I do have a question before we sort of let you go or whatever.
00:21:24
Speaker
You mentioned about Katrina Spade and obviously all that she's doing and the fact that you're friends, maybe this will be biased, I don't know, but what are your thoughts on the future of the funeral business and whether it's disposition, whether it's funeral homes, you know, brick and mortar, all that sort of stuff.
00:21:44
Speaker
Have you any thoughts on that?
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:46
Speaker
So about...
00:21:48
Speaker
Three years ago now, Katrina and I and four other founders started a little Slack channel that was just for people who were doing startups in the end of life space.
00:22:00
Speaker
And at last count, three years later, there's about 450
00:22:03
Speaker
founders that we've brought into this.
00:22:05
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:22:07
Speaker
Wow.
00:22:07
Speaker
Some people are doing wills, home hospice, body disposition, direct cremation, turning bodies into diamonds.
00:22:16
Speaker
I mean, all of the, all of this incredible amount of innovation, but also deep care.
00:22:26
Speaker
and people coming back to death care, a lot of the founders are women.
00:22:31
Speaker
Um, I think going back to how death used to be treated and thought of and incorporated into our lives as opposed to being this separate, separate thing.
00:22:44
Speaker
Um, so palliative care in general, I just think that there's a massive amount of care and innovation happening.
00:22:50
Speaker
Um, and, uh,
00:22:53
Speaker
every single founder that I talk to is there because they didn't have a good experience for some reason, right?
00:23:01
Speaker
The home hospice wasn't able to come to the house, so they didn't know that the dad had a bed sore, so the something, something, or they didn't have the documents that they needed for their mom or whatever it might be.
00:23:16
Speaker
So people, it's, I think it's hard work.
00:23:19
Speaker
and well meant and people trying to find ways to improve the end of life experience for people and I what I'm seeing is that there are funeral directors that see that they can become more service oriented that they can educate themselves about all these other things that people are asking for and offering and making it a more I don't know you use the word industry and of course it is an industry but it doesn't
00:23:48
Speaker
want to feel like that in the moment for the family whose person has died.
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
We know it's an industry.
00:23:54
Speaker
We know that money is changing hands, but there just feels to me to be a lot of innovation and a lot of real heart entering the space and changing things quite drastically.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:04
Speaker
quite drastically yeah yeah no it's it's definitely it's one of those watch this space you know I think the next decade is going to really show its colors um and I think it'll be very interesting yet to see all of these innovations I mean I've been in it for now for a decade which is crazy but um there has been some innovation and some of them have faltered and fallen you know
00:24:32
Speaker
So that's where it's interesting is, you know, who has the longevity to stick it out.
00:24:37
Speaker
And that's what makes me a little sad.
00:24:40
Speaker
That's what makes me a little sad.
00:24:42
Speaker
I feel as if obviously not all of the 450 new companies are going to succeed.
00:24:46
Speaker
So let's say half of them do or whichever.
00:24:49
Speaker
It's such a volume of work and a shift in thinking about and it's impacting consumer desire.
00:24:59
Speaker
It just feels more and more and more.
00:25:02
Speaker
that people as consumers can start to think about what they want for their own death.
00:25:06
Speaker
Do I have my paperwork in order?
00:25:09
Speaker
Have I understood what these things will be?
00:25:10
Speaker
How would I want my body to be taken care of?
00:25:13
Speaker
So there does feel like there's a cultural shift and we're seeing it, I think, I don't know how many of last year's like Netflix hit series were all like death and grief, right?
00:25:23
Speaker
Everything from afterlife to fleabag to there's just more and more severance
00:25:31
Speaker
discussion of or awareness of the experience it seems.
00:25:36
Speaker
And so as consumer demand shifts, then the industry will have to.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:42
Speaker
It's the final taboo that's starting to be, you know, come out of the closet.
Special Offer for Podcast Listeners
00:25:47
Speaker
Thank you so much, Emma.
00:25:50
Speaker
It was wonderful speaking with you.
00:25:52
Speaker
And you do have a special gift for anybody listening, correct?
00:25:58
Speaker
Yes, we do.
00:25:58
Speaker
That's right.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:59
Speaker
Thanks for reminding me.
00:26:00
Speaker
There's $10 off full year subscriptions for your listeners.
00:26:04
Speaker
They just need to go to grief.coach slash TGR podcast.
00:26:10
Speaker
Perfect.
00:26:10
Speaker
Or actually they can just go to grief.coach and use the code.
00:26:13
Speaker
And yeah, so that will mean a full year of support for them.
00:26:16
Speaker
Plus they can add their supporters in for $89.
00:26:18
Speaker
Right.
00:26:20
Speaker
Well, thank you so much.
00:26:21
Speaker
We'll put all that information below and it was wonderful speaking with you.
00:26:26
Speaker
And thank you so much.
00:26:26
Speaker
Lovely chatting with you too, Jennifer.
00:26:28
Speaker
Thank you.
00:26:39
Speaker
So what are your thoughts on the grief coach texting technology?
00:26:44
Speaker
Would you use it?
00:26:45
Speaker
Do you know somebody who could?
00:26:47
Speaker
Shoot us an email, glamreaperpodcast at gmail.com.
00:26:50
Speaker
And as always, let us know your comments and thoughts in the comment box below.
00:26:54
Speaker
We'll talk to you soon.