Transcript
Speaker: I just want little black boys, little black girls, little Asian boys, little Asian girls to just be able to look up at swimming and think it is something that they can do and that they can achieve. And I'm not even talking on like an Olympic medal stage. It can just be 25 meters learning to swim. And I just really think visibility is key for that in making people aware that it is open to them, that it's not closed off because of their race or because they might not see anybody who does it that looks like them.
Speaker: This is season three of the Charity CEO podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. I'm Livio Connor, and I never imagined that this show that I started as an experiment during the pandemic would turn into a number one ranked global podcast with thousands of listeners all across the world. It is truly humbling to know that the show's content is valued by so many.
Speaker: And, thanks to our Season 3 sponsor, Eden Tree, I will continue to bring you inspirational and engaging conversations with a host of leaders who are all truly driving change in the non -profit space. Eden Tree themselves are owned by a charity, and have led the way in responsible and sustainable investing for over three decades. Thank you to Eden Tree. Now, on with the show.
Speaker: As we kick off season three of the podcast, I have a real treat in store for you. Today, I have not just one, but two fabulous guests on the show. Alice Steering, the first black female swimmer to represent Team GB at an Olympic Games, recently returned from Tokyo, and Danielle Obey, co -founder and chair of the Black Swimming Association.
Speaker: Amongst other things, they are here to talk about water safety as well as representation and role modelling for black, Asian and minority ethnic communities in aquatics. One of the things that shocked me when I was doing my research for this show is the finding by Swim England that black children are three times more likely to drown than white children.
Speaker: Swimming is a vital life skill and, from dealing with controversy at the Tokyo Olympics, to tackling stereotypes and myths about swimming in the community, the Black Swimming Association is leading the charge to diversify the world of aquatics through education, advocacy, support and research. This is their story.
Speaker: Alice, Danielle, welcome to the show. This is the first time I've had two guests on the show at the same time and you are both such pioneering women and such hugely impressive role models. I'm really delighted to welcome you on. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks for having us. I'm really delighted to be with you today, Divya. Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker: Well, my pleasure. And the show traditionally starts off with an icebreaker round. And I normally ask my guests five questions, but as there are two of you today, I'm going to go with three questions each.
Speaker: So Alice, perhaps we'll come to you first. Question one, as a child, what did you dream of being when you grew up? My big thing was I wanted to be a lawyer. My mum used to watch Ally McBeal. Is that right? Ally McBeal. Yeah, Ally McBeal. I was a big boy. My mum used to watch that. I just used to always think it was really cool and really exciting. So yeah, I always wanted to be a lawyer and then I got older and realised it was a lot of work and it wasn't as glamorous as
Speaker: american soap opera is made out so yeah i went off that and danielle how about you i wanted to be a pilot when i grew up and then i changed my mind i thought i'll be a medical doctor and then i changed my mind again i thought i'll be a neurosurgeon and then here i am today i'm a management consultant and i'm a co -founder and inventor so
Speaker: Yeah, there you go. Wow. Question two, if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing in the world right now, what would that be? I'd stop people from hating one another. There's a lot of hate out there. Sorry to sound so negative, but you know, there's a lot of unnecessary dislike of people for whatever reason. I just like people to just be happy with one another. So yeah, I'd stop hate if possible.
Speaker: Danielle. Well, this again may sound a bit out there, but I will take away COVID and I will have the world as it was during COVID, especially with the first lockdown where you had human nature at its best, or you had younger people looking out for older ones in the community, and the world really came together as one to see what we could do.
Speaker: to fight a common enemy called COVID and also the time that families had to spend together. For some families that was brilliant, for others it wasn't so great. But yes, I think that togetherness, that sense of purpose and that sense of together we will achieve more, yeah, that's what I'll do.
Speaker: Indeed, for a brief moment, perhaps we did stop hate during those early days and all really pull together. Yes. And the final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? I can only think of Madiba Nelson Mandela. Yes. And I really ask him about the power of hope
Speaker: and how he held on to that for as long as it took until he stood as a voice of peace to the world. And it's really to understand how he was able to be a bridge, a bridge for hope, a bridge for reconciliation. Really, a bridge changed the world, how one man could have that much impact. I guess that's the question I'm asking, more of a conversation, not really a question, I guess.
Speaker: I can't think, I can't think. I'm leaning towards like asking like one of my favourite pop stars or something, but then I can't even think what I'd ask them. This is such a hard question. Oh my God. Can we maybe come back to meet the end?
Speaker: Let's then start talking about your experience. I know that you have just come back from participating in the Tokyo Olympics as the first black female swimmer to represent Team GB and I'm really excited to hear about your Olympic experience. Tell us about it.
Speaker: Yeah oh it was good, it was really cool. You're told like the Olympics are on like another level to anything that you've ever done or any of the competitions you've ever been to and I was always kind of like it's going to be a step up but I didn't anticipate how much of a step up it was like how incredible it is to be around like all of these amazing athletes.
Speaker: in the olympic village and really living in a dream and in a bubble world so it was really cool and there were certain things we couldn't do sadly because of covid restrictions so there was no sightseeing it was quite difficult to go and see or spectate other sports and other events and it was like masks everywhere you went but
Speaker: I was just grateful it went ahead. I was so grateful that the IOC and the Japanese authorities really pulled through and made these dreams happen for so many athletes, because it's been a crazy 18 months for everybody, not just athletes, and to have had this goal to work towards and not have had everything derailed. I was just honestly so grateful. So my experience was great. I wasn't happy with my performance, but everything outside of that was fantastic.
Speaker: I remember when the Olympics came to London in 2012 and what an incredible buzz it was across the city and across the nation. And I did feel a little sad for the Japanese people to have sort of missed out on that experience, but then still really great that the games went ahead, as you say. And so tell us a bit more about your race, Alice, the 10K marathon swim. I mean, what a huge moment for you as an individual and for what you represent in the sport. What was that like for you?
Speaker: Oh, I really just wanted to get an enjoyment. I actually felt quite relaxed on the day. I felt ready for it. Obviously I was very nervous. This is the biggest moment of my life so far. I had worked so hard towards it. It was a very early start, 6 .30 in the morning diving. So I was up at 3 .30, I think, and at the race venue about 4 .20. And it was a buzz. Everything was going on. There's not many athletes. There's only 25 of us in the race.
Speaker: or 24 I can't remember which but not many compared to what we're used to but like standing on the start line and just being like okay this is the Olympic final this is the moment that you've daydreamed about for God since I was nine but then over the past year it's all I've kind of thought about like every day I wake up and I'm just like it's one day closer to the Olympics it's one day closer and
Speaker: you get in and this is what you train for, for this opportunity. So to have had that moment and had that chance and came away with what I know is quite a disappointing result for myself but just to have had that opportunity is incredible and it's only given me more fire and more experience for hopefully my next opportunity which I'm looking towards Paris for.
Speaker: I think it's really interesting that women first started participating in Olympic swimming back in the summer Olympics in 1912 and that it has taken 109 years for there to be a black female swimmer representing Britain in the Olympic Games. So Alice, you know, really well done and congratulations on that. Thanks.
Speaker: I really love your motto of striving for excellence in and out of the water. And I understand that one of the things that is really important to you is to be the voice of diversity in elite competitive swimming. And on that note, tell us about the Black Swimming Association, the charity that you co -founded along with Danielle and to others. And Danielle, perhaps I can bring you in here as well.
Speaker: The Black History Association is something that I've always known has been needed, but to be
Speaker: One of the people helped co -found that and helped set it up and take it from some daydreams that I had in my head to the amazing work that Danielle and the team is doing. It's just so exciting and Danielle will explain it a lot better, but we're just looking to make swimming accessible to everybody regardless of their background and break down these myths and these stereotypes which have kept black people out of swimming for decades. And we've ended up at a place now where 95 % of black adults
Speaker: and 80 % of black children in England don't swim regularly.
Speaker: And we don't even know the numbers of how many can't swim. So there's a lot of work to be done and to be the group of people looking to help make that change is just so exciting. And I know my younger self, my little nine -year -old self who was looking at the sport of swimming and having all these hopes and dreams and excitements over what's to come would be so excited by the Black Swimming Association setup to just open up swimming to everybody.
Speaker: Indeed. And I know that 78 % of Asian children don't swim as well. And the statement that really shocked me when I was looking at the statistics and findings by Swim England was that black children are three times more likely to drown than white children. And with that context, Danielle, as the chair of the Black Swimming Association, can you tell us more about the vision and mission of the organization and its work?
Speaker: Absolutely. Again, truly honored to be here. I will answer your question, but I just couldn't pass on the opportunity to say what a fantastic, fantastic day it was for my family, for the BSA, and for a lot of us in the community, the day that Alice raced. The fact that she was there and that she got into the water, it was quite surreal. I was quite tearful as well to have thought that
Speaker: My goodness, I could see myself. My daughter could see herself. Other young children could be inspired by that moment of an Olympic dream. I know that Alice always says that she wanted to do so much better, but I'm thinking she was 19th in the world. About 7 billion plus people. Yes, incredible. She was getting in and they're all walking through.
Speaker: My little girl said, Mommy, look, that's Alice. Do you know what? She's the only black woman in the entire race. I didn't even notice that. She's eight. I thought, oh my goodness. I think for me, it's quite selfish because I think she'd already rewritten history, literally rewritten history.
Speaker: And so each time she says, no, she could have done better, I'm just thinking, my goodness girl, you did fantastic. It's truly an honor to be on this podcast with you. And it is an honor to stand with you. And Seren Jones and Etta Cura co -founding the Black Summer Association. The Black Summer Association really is the first charity of its kind in the UK. And it has been set up to tackle the inherent inequalities that we have.
Speaker: systemic, institutional and otherwise within the aquatic sector as a whole. It's been set up to ensure that everyone takes up swimming as a life skill. Swimming not just as a sport or as an activity, but swimming from a water safety perspective. So we want to really highlight the value of swimming as a life skill everyone should have. We also want to showcase the aquatic benefits.
Speaker: We also want to ensure that we have the drowning prevention and lifesaving intervention.
Speaker: that our community so desperately needs. Now, Alice has already stated in 95 % of Black adults do not swim in England and 80 % of Black children do not swim as well. That's similar statistics, 73 % of Asian adults, again, in England, do not swim and 78 % of Asian children in England do not swim. When we think about statistics like that from the Canal and Rivers Trust, 19 %
Speaker: of people living within one kilometer of waterways, so whether they be canals, rivers, reservoirs. Waterways in general are from African Caribbean and Asian communities, above the national average of 14%. And 61 % of families, again, living within one kilometer of waterways are from low social backgrounds.
Speaker: It really brings it home because as a community, we are quite low or lacking in water safety awareness and intervention and the education that's available.
Speaker: but we are also the ones that live within that proximity. So that's really why the ESA was set up. Our target audience, African Caribbean and Asian communities in the UK and in Ireland, but we've not been set up to exclude any community. But what we want to do is to tackle these figures, the statistics that we have within our community. And we're hoping that if we use the 19%, we certainly can change the dial for the 61%.
Speaker: I really commend you for taking on this challenge. And I understand, Danielle, that you are launching a research study aimed at tackling inequalities and barriers that preclude African, Caribbean and Asian communities from engaging in aquatics. Tell us more about the study and what you hope it will achieve.
Speaker: Now, when Alice was racing again, I know I keep going back to her race, but we were on the media and several times questions were asked. If I had a pound for each time this question was asked, I'll be a multimillionaire, what are the barriers that preclude African Caribbean and Asian communities from engaging more or participating in aquatics as a whole? That's exactly what it is. It's a question. Now, there are lived experiences we're aware of. There are also some stereotypes that we've heard.
Speaker: for a long time but this research is set to really do one thing and one thing well and it's also the first industry partner in research of its kind to understand the aquatic behaviours and attitudes of African Caribbean and Asian communities and also to ensure that we're able to understand what the barriers actually are and work to address and remove this as best we can. So we wouldn't really be having anecdotal evidence, we'll be having actual
Speaker: academic, scientific and social evidence into what these issues are and how we can best tackle them. So I was actually going to ask that very same question Danielle about what are some of the barriers that you see which prevent more representation of these communities in competitive swimming and aquatics but perhaps Alice I'll shift it slightly and ask you how did you get into swimming yourself? So I started learning to swim when I was about four or five years old and
Speaker: As I was going through my lessons when I was about eight years old, my mum saw the notice board for the local swimming club at the pool that I was just learning to swim at. Me and my brother, he was obviously a few stages above me. He's five years older than me. So I was eight. He was 13. And yes, she just put us in for sessions with the swimming club, Oldby's Swimming Club.
Speaker: It was great. We absolutely loved it. I think we went along two or three times a week. Honestly, I did ask her, why did you do it? She was like, I was just kind of on a whim. I wanted you to do a sport. I could see that you both enjoyed swimming. The lessons that we did were only half an hour a week. It was never really enough.
Speaker: Yes, just get in and then, I mean, if we didn't like it within the first month, we wouldn't have carried on with it. But we both absolutely fell in love with it and got really into it. So it just kind of happened on a whim. And just it's amazing where things end up where you just think, okay, I'll go give it a go.
Speaker: That's such a brilliant story. I love that. I have always loved swimming myself ever since I was a child, although I must admit I haven't been to a pool in over a year because of COVID. But I really do enjoy swimming. And as an Indian woman with thick wavy hair, one thing I can't ignore when going swimming is hair care. Now, Danielle, I understand that you might have the answer to our swimming hair woes and that you have invented a waterproof scarf to help protect hair in the pool.
Speaker: Tell us about Nemez. Well, so Nemez, the inspiration behind Nemez is my eight -year -old daughter. Well, at the time, she was just over three. I had absolutely loved the water, nothing elite like Alice. Water was just my go -to. My teens and my young adolescents, I had major surgery, so I actually couldn't take part in any intense sport. Whether it was tennis or athletics, I just couldn't do any of those.
Speaker: My go -to really was the water and my dad took me in there several times more like aqua therapy. From the mental and physical perspective, that was for me life as it were. Fast forward, starting my career as a young adult, I had to choose between my hair and the water, especially having quite a client -facing role as management consultant. I stood out of the water. I would get in occasionally when we go on holiday. Obviously, no one would be
Speaker: watching my hair, watching me as a whole. I wouldn't really need to have to care about that since I didn't have any meetings. I'll go in snorkeling, I'll go in diving, I'll go in water sports, but I never did that as a normal day -to -day around me. So I stayed out of the water for almost 18 years and fast forward having three children of my own and my middle daughter who had to swim. Because for us, swimming was water safety. As soon as our children could hold their necks up after a three and a half months, we got them into the water.
Speaker: But that middle child syndrome, she always really had a big fuss around having to care for her hair before she went to school and when she got out, have to wash the chlorine out of her hair and condition it. And so I made her a promise. I said to her, you know what, you've got to keep swimming. We're going to find a swimming cap that works. I mean, what do you say to a three and a half year old who says to you, mommy, why do I have to wear a cap that will not keep my hair dry and you're still going to shampoo my hair?
Speaker: that I don't like and it just was never fun. When I said to her, look, you've got to keep wearing this. We will find something. If we don't find one, we'll invent one. She kept reminding me. So the waterproof scarf really was invented. It's a really simple solution. It's a wrap -around. I remember the day I had this very strange look on my husband's face when he saw latex delivered at the front door. He was thinking, I wonder what she's cooking up now.
Speaker: Little did he know at the time I was thinking, well, a waterproof scarf, the only waterproof scarf I can think about is the waterproof fabric would be latex, and that's what some swim caps are made from. I ordered some when it was delivered. I went down to my knees and started cutting it in different shapes and wrapping it around her actual hat. That's how I started working on the Nemez and the Nemez was born. Yes, it's in development right now, but it was really a tool for inclusion that has been developed to
Speaker: tackle the age -long issue of water and chemical damage to our hair and hairstyles in and around the water. And it's a versatile piece. It's not just for swimming. It's also for the shower. If you were out on the walk and you wanted to keep your hair dry, or you were cycling, and yeah, so it's just a waterproof wraparound.
Speaker: Well, I look forward to being able to try it out when it is available commercially. But tell us about the name Nemez. What's behind the name? Nemez is Egyptian and it is the name of the headgear that the pharaohs wore over their crowns. Yes. So the inspiration behind that is that our hair is that crown in glory. And so the Nemez covers and protects our crowns. So that's really what it is, the name of the headgear.
Speaker: at a famous war. Oh, I love that, the hair as our crowning glory. And talking about swim gear for the hair, I'd also like to talk about Soulcap and the recent controversy surrounding it as it was banned at the Tokyo Olympics. And Alice, as a brand ambassador for Soulcap, how did that make you feel?
Speaker: Yeah, this was like a very interesting and difficult time for this story to come out actually. Yeah, it was such a shame that something like this had happened. Myself and Solcap and obviously the Black Swimming Association working so hard to make sure swimming is visible and accessible.
Speaker: and that people know that they are wanted and that they can do it. So to have a cap which is literally just made to fit more hair in, it's as simple as that. To have that disallowed from international competitions and the main one that was coming up at the time was the Olympics. So that happened and it was obviously a big shock to the media and to the public and to see something like this still happening in 2021 was
Speaker: Yeah, it was such a shame. And myself, honestly, I just kind of had to step back from it. Whilst I am the brand ambassador, I didn't feel I was in a position to represent this story, to be honest, I just qualified and I'd done all of the media and all of the press off of qualifying. And then
Speaker: was kind of getting asked by basically every major publication and news outlet in the world like to speak on this matter and I'm not gonna lie I didn't have the energy. These are difficult and heavy conversations to have and to talk about race and racism and then something as powerful as this story was a difficult one so
Speaker: I'm really hopeful that things are moving forward. I spoke to the FINA president after my race, actually. He approached me and basically apologized for it and for everything. And like I said, he hopes I'm okay.
Speaker: sounds like things are hopefully going to be moving forward and I like to think there's going to be a happy ending at the end of this and I guess the final thing I'll just like to add to this is that there's like different ways of being educated and I think everybody needs to be educated on something at some point and I don't think, I'm not speaking for Fina here, but I don't think Fina
Speaker: Meant it in this way and then the way it came out they're looking to protect the sport of swimming in the sense of they don't want people creating swimming caps which could give an amazing streamlined slash aerodynamic advantage and In their minds they could see the potential that this cap would have
Speaker: the caps not invented for that don't get me wrong gets invented for her but i think that was the argument that they put forward and education happened and it happened in a very public way a lot of major news outlets picked up on this it was a huge discussion on twitter on an instagram and sometimes education happens in a very private way where
Speaker: it's someone pulling someone aside and being like, actually, no, maybe we should look at this from a different angle or let's change our perspective and understand why something has been approached in this way.
Speaker: And sometimes it's extremely public where you get the whole world looking at an issue like this. So it was a crazy time, honestly. And I really hope that it gets resolved and the soul cap, the mess, like all of these caps and gear, which people are inventing. And it's so exciting, inventing to just make people's lives easier. I'm pretty certain, hopefully soon. Just in my mind, I can't see why it wouldn't be accepted, but you know, maybe I'm just so optimistic.
Speaker: It's really interesting to hear your perspectives on this story, Alice, and talking about bringing about a change in perspectives. What do you think needs to happen in order to make the sport more inclusive?
Speaker: I just think visibility is so key. I just want little black boys, little black girls, little Asian boys, little Asian girls to just be able to look up at swimming and think it's something that they can do and that they can achieve. And I'm not even talking on like an Olympic medal stage. It can just be 25 meters learning to swim. And I just really think visibility is key for that in making people aware that it is open to them.
Speaker: that it's not closed off because of their race or because they might not see anybody who does it that looks like them. And I suppose that's the key is that you look at an Olympic final on track and the likelihood is you will have an inclusive mix of people, you know, you'll have people from all over the world, from different backgrounds, different races.
Speaker: Whereas in swimming, that same mix just isn't there yet and isn't there at the moment. But I'm really hopeful that these coming next Olympics, there will be a change. You can already see it now. It's starting to come through as we've grown up and society's broadened its horizons around inclusivity.
Speaker: just visibility right now is key and then when we find out from this research what the issues are that we need to tackle for the black community we can start working on those and then that's going to put these numbers up even more and really one day I hope eventually that
Speaker: All of these conversations will be irrelevant because we'll be like, well, we don't need anyone. We don't need to talk about this. Everybody's got equal opportunity to get in the water. There's a diverse and inclusive mix within the elite swimming scene as well as grassroots. So yeah, I really hope one day it will just be like, oh, they did their work and now we can just chill.
Speaker: Absolutely. I think representation and role modeling is so key in all walks of life. And Alice, I really commend you for having broken through that barrier. And I really look forward to watching your career as you go from strength to strength on your journey.
Speaker: Thank you. And talking about career journeys and leadership, Danielle, I'd love to hear about your own background and your career journey to date. I mean, what has inspired you and driven you to where you are today? My background is in management consulting, organizational development, and program management. In my many years of working in the financial industry, insurance, we worked on the Refugitsu and the Olympics 2012 at the time, their back office systems.
Speaker: Nothing could quite have prepared me for taking on the role of the chair of the BSA and that's because it brings it all together. When you have purpose and you have expertise in the field but more importantly when you have a certain view and my view really what inspires me every day as we tackle these issues. The vision of the BSA is to work towards ethical
Speaker: diversity and aquatics and our mission is to ensure that everyone African Caribbean and Asian communities have got equal access to feel included and have a safe and quality experience in on and around the water. I heard you ask Alice about the sport. Yeah swimming is a sport but by and large in its simplest form it also is a water safety tool. It also is about saving lives and that's why we set up the PSA.
Speaker: My background is management consulting, but I use everything that I've ever done in my career. I use it every day at the BSA. And I think of myself more as a leader, finding ways to inspire and foster change in the sector through people. The BSA is set up as a bridge, a bridge, building bridges into disenfranchised and disengaged communities. And I think I've said that several times, even when we have the issue of FINA that we are
Speaker: We're a bridge, we're not a whip. We want to see how we can work together because we believe that our greatest strength lies in working together as a sector, as a people, to tackle these issues that affect our communities. And the only way we can do that is being relational. The only way we can do that is to sit down and have dialogues to really understand what these issues are and how best we can work together. Because when we take
Speaker: The Fener challenge that we had, for instance, it's clearly evident and I echo what Alice said. I don't think in any way Fener intended to make the sport not as inclusive as it could be. I think Fener was not aware that hair is a significant barrier for certain communities. And so to foster representation and participation and inclusion
Speaker: you had to tackle what these barriers are. And one of them is hair. And if there are any tools that have been invented or created or redesigned to ensure that we tackle the issue of hair, then that is a tool for inclusion that should be promoted. It should be a gear that should be available. Because I think the loud outcry that we had with the community was the community saying, we want to have options. We want to have options.
Speaker: to pick whether we choose to wear a speeder or an arena hat or a soul cap or anything else in between. We want to have the option. We want to have the same. We don't want you to dictate to us because these are our lived experiences that you haven't had yet. But if you're looking to drive that inclusion and representation poolside, especially then you want to be tackling some of these issues. And so I see my role, my present role as just that, that leader that brings the sector together.
Speaker: and really gets us talking and coming up with solutions, co -creating.
Speaker: with disenfranchised communities, solutions that adapted to them to ensure that we're able to change the dial where it really, really matters. I love how you described that, Danielle, in terms of the BSA being set up as a bridge to enable you to have dialogue and work together with FINA and the communities and indeed to increase education and awareness that is ultimately going to lead to greater inclusion and indeed
Speaker: greater awareness around water safety. And Alice, coming back to you, I mean, what's next for you? And we obviously are delighted and wish you well for all of your training and preparation for the Paris Olympics. But what are your aspirations between now and 2024? And where do you derive your day -to -day inspiration from?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm going to go through a few life changes between now and Paris. I'm finishing my dissertation in about three weeks time. I've got my hand in. And yeah, I will be the first time that I'll be out of education since going into education for preschool slash reception. So as long as I've been a swimmer, I've been in education basically in some form. So yeah, I'll be going to be in a full -time athlete, which I'm actually really excited by. It gives me just a lot more free time, a lot more time to focus on.
Speaker: swimming, my career, both in and out of the water. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And then the key one next season is, for me anyway, is the Commonwealth Games.
Speaker: I really want to qualify for that. It's in Birmingham. I'm from Birmingham. The pool is literally like a mile away from the house that I lived in my whole time whilst I was there and it's really exciting to have something like that on my doorstep and the potential legacy that this is setting up for the children and adults of Birmingham is just so exciting and I want to be a part of that. There is some difficulty with that in terms of my event because
Speaker: there's no open water event at the Commonwealth Games. So I have to move back to pool swimming and do hopefully the 400 and 800 metres freestyle, which both me and my coach are aware of the challenge, but both think it's achievable, hopefully. So that's what I'm aiming for. And then year after that, the 22 slash 23 season, that's already the qualification for the Olympic Games. They're already picking from the World Championships that year, so
Speaker: before I know it, it's back into the Olympic focus mindset. So honestly, yeah, it's going to be a very quick three years leading into Paris. And yeah, I just want to make sure my name's on that playing ticket. I'm going to Paris and hopefully a second time Olympian. I'll know what I'm up against and I'm not going to leave any stone unturned in the next three years. So I'm just looking forward to that opportunity again.
Speaker: Well, best of luck for the Paris Olympics and of course for the Commonwealth Games. I'm sure Birmingham will bring you lots of hometown love to carry you through for that. And one last question to you both. I mean, it's been an absolute honor and privilege talking with you both today. And I just wanted to ask if you had any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? Thank you, Divya, for having us.
Speaker: On this, it's also been a good time just really talking alongside Alice and listening to you speak to us and ask us these really, some of them hard questions. What would I like listeners to take away? It's really the focus on working together to achieve more. We will continue doing what we've set the BSA up to do, unite the sector and disenfranchise communities, African Caribbean and Asian communities.
Speaker: and the work that we're set up to do, we want to take down those figures of 95 and 93 of 80 and 78. But to drive those down, when we drive those down, we'll then build up. We'll see a lot more Alice D 'Erings in the pool, because right now it's really about water safety, it's about water confidence, and also it's about being practical opportunities that are available.
Speaker: but people can't embrace opportunities if they first did not feel safe and have a quality experience in on and around the water. And so with the research underway and a few local delivery pilots in London, which will be followed by Birmingham,
Speaker: and Leeds and Manchester eventually, we want to do just that. We want to start looking at how we get people into the water safely, how we work with communities, how we co -create with them, because this work is really about legacy and impact and relevance for our community. Thank you, Danielle and Alice. I'd like people to take away that you might think something in life isn't for you, or you don't see many people who look like you in that.
Speaker: field or that career or that sport or that instrument I don't know whatever it is I just want people to know like if you want to go do it just go do it go find a way to do it and if you enjoy it great if not at least you tried something new and gave it a shot and yeah sorry I just put this in now because I remembered I haven't answered one of the questions from the start so
Speaker: I'm sorry that it ended up waiting this long for it but I really couldn't think of anything but I'm a massive fan of Doja Cat and I'd probably ask if I could be in one of her music videos and I know that's not an interview question but I think I'd still chance it and I don't know if she'd say yes she'd probably say no or we'll see what we can do and it wouldn't happen but you know at least at least I've asked yeah
Speaker: Well, if anybody who knows Doja Cat is listening to this podcast, get in touch with Alice Dearing. She wants to be in your next music video. Got to shoot you short. Brilliant. Alice, Danielle, thank you so much. That was so inspiring. Thank you for being guests on the show. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having us.
Speaker: What an honour it was to speak with Olympian Alice Dearing, future swimming gold medal winner, I'm sure, and Danielle Obey, co -founder and chair of the Black Swimming Association. It was so inspiring to hear about the BSA's focus on working together to achieve more, specifically around education and awareness about safety in the water, as well as representation and inclusion.
Speaker: And I think Alice's message of just give it a shot applies to all aspects of life. Whether you are looking to start a business, launch a podcast, run a marathon, or learn how to swim, just take that first step. Go for that run, jump in that pool, and you never know, you might just end up becoming an Olympic champion.
Speaker: I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Charity CEO podcast. A show that, thanks to you, our listeners, has repeatedly reached the number one spot in Apple's non -profit podcast category. If you found this conversation valuable, please help spread the word. Share or tag us on Twitter or LinkedIn or Instagram, and make sure you subscribe to the show by clicking the subscribe button on your podcast app.
Speaker: And if you're feeling inspired or uplifted by what you have just heard, please share the joy by leaving us a five -star review. Visit our website, thecharityceo .com, for full show details, information on past season guests, and to submit ideas for future guests. Thanks again to our Season 3 sponsor, Eden Tree, and thank you for continuing to listen.
