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Burnout as Betrayal: Breaking Free from People Pleasing and Perfectionism to Reclaim Your Energy - with Lora Cheadle (Taking Care of Yourself #3)
69 Plays8 days ago
What if burnout isn’t just exhaustion, but a form of betrayal? In this episode, attorney-turned-coach and TEDx speaker, Lora Cheadle, shares how years of people pleasing, perfectionism, and prioritizing everyone else’s needs over her own left her depleted, and how she discovered that the deepest betrayal wasn’t her husband’s long-term infidelity, but the ways she had abandoned her own needs. Lora reframes burnout as a wake-up call to stop self-sacrificing and start honoring your worth. She offers a powerful framework for identifying unmet needs, moving beyond resentment, and building resilience. This conversation will challenge how you see burnout, and it will inspire you to reclaim your authenticity and self-trust.
Get Lora’s Betrayal Recovery Guide and learn more about her Betrayal Recovery method on her website.
Start at the beginning of the journey.
Listen to The Mindset Shifts Every Executive Mom Needs to Balance Ambition and Well-Being, and Empowering Executive Moms to Recognize Your Own Needs Without Guilt, the first and second episodes of the Taking Care of Yourself series.
Full transcript available here.
Connect with Leanna here.
Strong leadership starts with strong foundations. The Executive Mom Reset Foundations begins October 21. Join us to gain the tools, strategies, and support you need to thrive at work and at home without burning out.
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Transcript
Introduction to Executive Coach for Moms
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Executive Coach for Moms podcast, where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home.
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm your host, Leanna Lasky-McGrath, former tech exec turned full-time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach.
Introducing Laura Cheadle and the 'Taking Care of Yourself' Series
00:00:27
Speaker
Hi, everybody. So as I was mapping out my plan for this Taking Care of Yourself series that we're having this fall, I decided I wanted to share my conversation with Laura as the third episode, because the past two weeks we've talked about putting everybody else's needs above our own.
00:00:47
Speaker
And Laura has a really powerful story to share about how she burned out of two careers by doing just this. She talks about her journey of returning to herself and learning to honor her needs and prioritize them.
00:01:02
Speaker
And I just wanted you to hear this conversation because while I've been doing some teaching on this the past two weeks, I really think that hearing this message in the version of a story will help to pull these ideas together.
00:01:17
Speaker
And just a reminder before we jump in that the Executive Mom Reset Foundations course will be starting October 21st. And I would love to have you join us to dive deeper into practical tools that you can use to get out of stress, overwhelm, and autopilot and really start loving your life.
00:01:35
Speaker
Visit coachleana.com for more details and to get signed up. And now hope you enjoyed this conversation with Laura as much as I did.
Laura Cheadle's Background and Burnout Journey
00:01:52
Speaker
can't wait to announce today's guest and introduce you to her. Her name is Laura Cheadle and she is an attorney, a TEDx speaker and leadership and wellness coach specializing in burnout and betrayal recovery.
00:02:05
Speaker
She helps burned out professionals, teams and organizations reframe burnout as betrayal uncover its root causes, and create lasting engagement, productivity, and fulfillment.
00:02:16
Speaker
As the creator of the Fuel Up Burnout Recovery Method, Laura goes beyond surface-level burnout solutions, guiding individuals and organizations to resolve the deeper betrayals that lead to exhaustion and disengagement.
00:02:30
Speaker
She also leads Step Into Your Moxie, Speak Up and Influence Corporate Workshops, empowering professionals to advocate confidently for themselves, their companies and their most important ideas. I love it. Welcome, Laura.
00:02:44
Speaker
Thank you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. Me too. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to talk with you. i was just binging some of your content and your TED talk, and I just can't wait for everyone to hear from you.
00:02:57
Speaker
So maybe if you could start off and tell us your story in your own words. Yeah, absolutely. um I started off as a corporate attorney. I practiced law for about 10 years.
00:03:08
Speaker
And i hit a place of, i didn't call it burnout at the time because burnout kind of wasn't a buzzword. But I had two kids in 22 months. My husband traveled and was gone two weeks out of every month.
00:03:23
Speaker
And then three out of four of my grandparents were in various stages of dying, cancer, emphysema, hospice. And it was just too much. It was absolutely too much to handle.
00:03:37
Speaker
So I walked away. I left my corporate job and I thought, you know what? I've always been so interested in wellness. I've always taught fitness. I'm gonna go back to school. I'm gonna learn hypnotherapy. I'm gonna do mindfulness meditation.
00:03:52
Speaker
I'm gonna create this amazing you know wellness space, especially for high achieving moms and women because I know what it's like and we're not supported. Well, I did and I created a great part-time company.
00:04:06
Speaker
And then guess what? I burned out again. And I kind of thought, how can I be burning out when I'm doing everything right? How can I burn out when I'm teaching yoga, I'm doing fitness, I'm meditating? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
00:04:21
Speaker
But as a mom, I just kept leaning in. You know, didn't take care of myself. I took care of everybody else. I just did more. I slept less. I made my life more and more perfect on the outside.
00:04:35
Speaker
I hit adrenal fatigue at one point, had to step back a little bit. Then when my youngest was about to graduate from high school,
00:04:47
Speaker
I thought, this is it. I have finally made it through. i can start taking care of myself. I can start having fun and enjoying my life. And that's when I found out my husband had been cheating on me for 15 years.
Impact of Infidelity and Self-Prioritization
00:05:05
Speaker
oh my gosh. Wow. It was awful. And it shattered me. I mean, it shattered my heart, my soul, my my life, everything. Mm-hmm.
00:05:18
Speaker
And it was that experience of that where I thought, I'm not going to be able to get through this. This is finally it. I'm not going to be able to recover. Well, fast forward, it ended up being probably one of the best things that has ever happened because it really stripped away all of those external expectations.
00:05:38
Speaker
It forced me to come back home to myself, to see all the ways i had been betraying myself along the way by taking care of everybody else and everything and not myself.
00:05:52
Speaker
yeah My husband and i shockingly, ended up getting back together too because he started doing a lot of the deep work as well. I rebuilt myself, he rebuilt himself, we rebuilt ourselves.
00:06:06
Speaker
And that's led me to where i am today. today Wow. I have so many questions. And so i that so many things that are interesting. The biggest things that stand out to me are like the idea that we all have of like, when this happens, then I can start taking care of myself, right? Like when my, when my children are off to college, then I'll start taking care of myself. And I know a lot of listeners on this show have young children. So probably the thought of that is like, oh, my God, how am I going to make it until then? And also, like, is that how I want to spend the next, you know, 10 or 15 years? Right. But I think that's something that we so often do is we kind of put our like taking care of ourselves and.
00:06:50
Speaker
focusing on ourselves before really at all. You know, usually it's just like, we'll take care of everyone else. And then if there's anything left over, then that's what we get. And so I think that is so common, especially for high achieving women. That's how we're socialized, right? What do you chalk that up to?
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. ah We are socialized that way. It is this belief that I have to be perfect. I have to take care of everybody else. And that whole belief that the self-sacrificing woman, that we will get praised for that.
00:07:21
Speaker
You know, that everybody will love us and be like, oh my gosh, you gave everything for your kids. yeah Really? You gave everything for your kids to the point that you died, to the point that you had adrenal fatigue, to the point that, you know, so yes, that is the story in our head.
00:07:39
Speaker
That's how our mothers, our grandmothers, society, that's what we've been conditioned to think about. And I also think there's something really interesting around just the concept of
Selflessness vs. Selfishness in Women
00:07:49
Speaker
being selfish.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah. You know, Okay, we're not supposed to be selfish. You're not supposed to be self-centered. But at the same time, shouldn't we fill ourselves up with ourselves?
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Isn't the biggest gift to my family, to my friends, to my loved ones, to everybody, being completely me, expressing myself fully so you can really get to know me?
00:08:16
Speaker
And maybe I can be blazing a trail that you want to follow. Or maybe just the trail that I'm blazing is i am uninhibited and unabashedly myself. And that's what I want for you too.
00:08:28
Speaker
and Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me of like namaste, right? Like the light in me recognizes the light in you and then you're inspired by that. Yeah. and And also it's not like it's the conspiracy theory of the patriarchy, but it does keep us from reaching our full potential.
00:08:46
Speaker
we are just a service in service to other people, we can never be fully who we are. Yeah. It brings everybody down. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that idea of selfish being a negative word, right? Like it's an insult in our society. And I remember few years back, my mother-in-law, who I love dearly,
00:09:09
Speaker
got me a um pillow for Mother's Day. And it had like a word for each, like mother down vertically and then, you know, like a word. And one of the words was selfless. And I was like, I think you mean that as a compliment, but that's not how I interpret it. Because, you know, if the opposite of selfish is selfless, like not having myself, so then I'd rather be selfish, you know? Yeah.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Because it's this underlying belief that who you are would be abusive, would be damaging to other people. And it's like, no, when I am fully myself, I am more loving, I am more kind, i am more inclusive.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah. I don't want to be selfless. I want to bring myself in because who I am creates oneness and unity and joy and growth and power and peace and all the good things. So let's bring more of ourselves in.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah. So how did you get from where you were to being excited and able to focus on you and be quote unquote selfish and taking care of yourself instead of everybody else? Like what did that journey look like for you?
00:10:17
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's it's It was a process. Sure. And it's one of those things that, you know, to be completely honest, I will still find myself falling into that mode of taking care of people and putting myself last.
00:10:30
Speaker
And I will still consciously have to remind myself, no, Laura,
Embracing True Self through Burlesque
00:10:34
Speaker
you don't have to stand up and go bring your adult son a glass of water because he asks if you don't really want to. If you're really in the middle of something and you don't want to, even if you just don't want to, you can choose that for yourself.
00:10:48
Speaker
So it's a process. What I did personally for myself, I am very into the somatic movement. I need to embody things physically in order to have it become me.
00:11:03
Speaker
I can't just think my way into it. I need to do it. okay This is a whole other thing out of left field. At age 44, I started dancing burlesque. Oh, okay. yeah burlesque is it's a parody but it's the removing of layers it's not dripping to entice it is the removing of layers to reveal what is underneath is underneath is authenticity what is underneath is heart what is underneath is joy And as I would start removing those layers physically, i would start tying it to the symbolic layers of what I'm releasing.
00:11:41
Speaker
I'm releasing judgment. I'm releasing perfection. I'm releasing the image of what a mom and a corporate attorney and a wife should look like. So for me, I had to move through that. I had to dance through that.
00:11:56
Speaker
And then to almost test the waters and feel, what does it feel like to move embodied and free and fully me? And where am I wanting to mask up?
00:12:09
Speaker
Where am I wanting to hide and protect? And then i would tie the intellect in to start unpacking that. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it was a complete body, mind, spirit journey. It wasn't just like, I decided to do that on Wednesday. Absolutely.
00:12:26
Speaker
I always love hearing about people's healing journeys because i think there are so many different ways to get there, right? It's not like you have to go to therapy this many times. You can't be written a prescription. It's really up to everybody individually to kind of write their own healing, you know, their own healing prescription. And it sounds like for you,
00:12:49
Speaker
you know, movement is that. And so while that may not work for someone else, that works for you, right? Yeah. I mean, whatever it is, it's some sort of creativity, whether it's painting, whether it's singing, whether it's gardening, whether it's cooking, it's that flow state of being in an activity that you love where your mind can just process and release.
00:13:12
Speaker
All of those stories, all of those inhibitions, all of those layers of expectancy. Yeah, so you talked about how you burnt out in two different careers, which I think is so not surprising because so often, like we take our same brain with us, our same reactions, our same default settings. If we don't do the work, right? This is what I always tell people because they're like, well, I can just change jobs and find you know a better job. And it's like,
00:13:41
Speaker
Sure, you can do that. And that might help in some ways. And it might help temporarily. But at the end of the day, like you're going to find a way to continue to repeat your same patterns, which it sounds like you found as well, even while working in the wellness space. So I am curious about that experience for you. And then kind of how you talk about burnout as betrayal and how you link that together. Yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I'll start with that. When you talk about what is burnout, yeah burnout is having too much work to do over an extended period of time.
00:14:16
Speaker
So it is I have too much to do And that is a real thing. You can be given too much at work. There can be not enough support at home. All of that. Burnout is that too much to do.
00:14:28
Speaker
Betrayal is defined as the breaking of an expectation t that you have relied on that then ruptures your view, either of yourself the world or your career.
00:14:41
Speaker
And when you really start thinking about what are those expectations, I expected to be promoted after so many years. I expected my company to value me.
00:14:53
Speaker
I expected my partner to really be doing 50-50 of the work at home. I expected kids that wouldn't have needs. I expected them just to be like, yes, and they would do things.
00:15:05
Speaker
I mean, how often have we said, this isn't what I signed up for? Mm-hmm. That's a broken expectation. I think that's what a lot of moms in America, especially working moms, are thinking. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Because we grow up with those beliefs that if we just schedule, if we just plan, if we just get help, it'll be easy. And it just isn't. So when you have that broken expectation, what happens is we tend to internalize. I'm it I'm doing it wrong.
00:15:35
Speaker
I'm a failure as a mom. My house is a problem and I'm a failure at meal prep. I'm a failure at, you know what I mean, organization. I thought I was going to be a good in my career. I'm a failure. We internalize and we think we're doing it wrong when really it's the system.
00:15:54
Speaker
It's an expectation that was an unrealistic expectation. ah we don't break that down. Yeah. Interesting. And I see that so much in in my coaching, right? That women are thinking that if, you know, everything's not in perfect order, then it means something's wrong with me. I think the story we tell ourselves a lot of times is like everyone else, like how can everyone else do this? I remember when I first became a mom, that was something I kept thinking was like, how is everyone doing this?
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah. This is so hard. What that implies is like everyone else knows how to do it, but I don't. Yeah. And there's something wrong with me because I don't know, there must be something wrong. And I just need to like try harder, push harder, give more.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah. Sleep less, like you said. yeah Yeah. And the simple things, sometimes, sometimes our kids drive us bonkers. We don't want to be with them. We're not having fun. Mm-hmm. But oh my God, to say that out loud, what's wrong with you?
00:16:52
Speaker
you know, same thing with a career. We see people succeeding and then we think, I haven't gotten a raise in three years. This is not what I expected. I expected to go in and whatever it is, get the corner office, get the promotions, run the company. And then a same thing, we think something's wrong with me. I'm in the wrong career. I'm doing things wrong. Really, we're not.
00:17:17
Speaker
But growing up, that's not the narrative we're given. We don't have the narrative that life is hard. There are going to be times you don't like your kids or you don't like your spouse or your aging parents are wearing you out and you don't want to give one more inch.
00:17:33
Speaker
There will be times your company will fire you for, you know, no reason or they'll go out of business and you will be left and you can't find a job for the next year and a half. And it's normal. Nothing is wrong with you.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah. So when you talk about betrayal, so you're saying that like all of those things are betrayals because we believed it shouldn't be this way. That's kind of like the story that we tell ourselves in that moment.
00:17:57
Speaker
um Yes and no.
Understanding Burnout and Betrayal
00:17:59
Speaker
Okay. We absolutely can be betrayed by life, by our company, things like that. But I think more importantly is the feeling of betrayal.
00:18:09
Speaker
We don't identify the feeling of betrayal very often. Okay. For example, after COVID, so many people, you know, work from home. Then they're told to come back into the office and people are thinking, but I liked working at home. It was easier.
00:18:24
Speaker
And it's the sense of betrayal that you betrayed me, company, by making me come back to work. There was no exception. express promise. There was no actual betrayal, but it's that feeling, that expectation that we created in our mind.
00:18:40
Speaker
They should see me. They should see how much better I'm doing. They should see how much more productive I am and how much easier it is on me and my family So it feels like a betrayal.
00:18:52
Speaker
It's not, but our brain, our body, our psyche interprets it as a betrayal. So then we get resentful. Then we get bitter. Then we start being like, well, yeah, if you're going to do that to me, I'm going to do this to you.
00:19:05
Speaker
And it starts this whole negative spiral. Interesting. With burnout, it's like we keep doing all of the things and expecting to be okay and we're not. Like how that creates the feeling of betrayal.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah. ah Sometimes with burnout, there's too much work to do. You go in and you say, i i need new assistant. There's too much work to do. Somebody gets you the assistant, you have less work to do. Bang, you feel fine.
00:19:34
Speaker
That's a burnout solution. If you think about the solutions to burnout, let's get a better scheduling system. Let's get you an assistant. Let's take a break. Let's have a long weekend.
00:19:44
Speaker
Those are the remedies, the solutions to having too much to do. When you have the solution to a burnout problem, but it's not really burnout, you don't feel better.
00:19:56
Speaker
So if you have a chronic sense of betrayal that things are not turning out the way I thought they should. My employer didn't give me a raise that I thought I should get, even though I never communicated it.
00:20:09
Speaker
I was told to come back into the office after COVID and it feels like a betrayal. I'm not having the kind of life and marriage and kids that I thought I should get and it feels like a betrayal. What is the solution to that?
00:20:24
Speaker
Time off isn't the solution to that. Getting a better scheduling system isn't the solution to that. So then the betrayals compound. I've done all the things and I still don't feel right.
00:20:37
Speaker
Okay, self-care doesn't work. Okay, meditation doesn't work. Yoga doesn't work. So it exacerbates and compounds the feelings of betrayal, which is really...
00:20:49
Speaker
We're saying in our brain, well, it's just burnout. It's not burnout. It's betrayal. You need a different remedy to tackle the feelings of betrayal And what is that? Because I know everyone's wondering, what solution? What remedy?
00:21:03
Speaker
Tell me. Exactly.
Communicating Expectations and Resolving Betrayal
00:21:05
Speaker
First of all, it's identifying what it is you're feeling to actually step back and uncover. I talk about the fuel up method and the you and fuel up is uncover what's really going on.
00:21:19
Speaker
Do you really have too much work going on? Is what's really going on a bad marriage? Is what's really going on a sense of betrayal? Uncover what really is the problem. And the way that I have people do this, and you can, listeners, you can do this now, you can do this later.
00:21:35
Speaker
Give yourself a quiet moment and write down a sentence, my problem is I'm burned out. Or my problem is I'm not happy in my marriage. Or my problem is, whatever it is, write it down.
00:21:48
Speaker
Then under those words, whatever that problem word is, like burnout, I want you to think a synonym for that word. So instead of burnout, you might say frustration.
00:22:00
Speaker
And then I want you to go down one more level. What's kind of a synonym for frustration? And I don't want you to do the headspace synonym. I want you to do the heart space. What is the thing that comes out from frustration?
00:22:11
Speaker
burnout, frustration, then maybe exhaustion. That third level down is quite often what the problem is. The problem is exhaustion. It's not burnout, it's exhaustion.
00:22:23
Speaker
Notice what that is for you. Uncover the root of what's really going on. That's the first place, is identifying what's really going on. Because then you can ask yourself, what is the solution to exhaustion?
00:22:39
Speaker
It might be sleep. It might be nutrition. It might be, you know, all of these different things. It's a different solution to the different problem. So that is the first place to do.
00:22:52
Speaker
And then once you have done that, it's identifying what are the expectations around that. What are my expectations that have been broken? I was expecting always be able to get a full night's sleep.
00:23:05
Speaker
I was expecting not have to get up all the time with kids, with dogs. I was expecting not to take work home every evening.
00:23:16
Speaker
So identifying those expectations around what it is that you're feeling And then communicating those expectations to the relevant person. Maybe it's communicating it to a partner.
00:23:29
Speaker
I was expecting to to be able to get a better night's sleep. This is my problem. How can we solve this? Two nights a week, maybe I don't get up. Two weeks a night, maybe you don't get up. How can we do this?
00:23:41
Speaker
Communicating to your employer. This was an expectation that I had when I first got this job. This expectation has not been met. Is this realistic of me to think that I should get raise every year or do I need to start exploring different careers?
00:24:00
Speaker
So it's identifying, communicating, and then learning how to advocate on behalf of that expectation. How can you speak your truth?
00:24:11
Speaker
What are the solutions that you can come up with, which is more than just venting or complaining or telling the story about how bad and unfair things are. How can you really advocate for a solution to those expectations?
00:24:25
Speaker
I love that. So it's a really clear framework to, sounds like, like dig a couple levels deeper. Because I think a lot of times, nonviolent communication, we have these needs and the words that we say don't always actually adequately reflect the needs or the behaviors that we do or that we see from others.
00:24:46
Speaker
Really, it's just like, what's that underlying need? So that's kind of what I hear you saying is like identifying, getting to What do I need? Yeah. And the surface level, what I need isn't rarely what that real deep need is.
00:25:02
Speaker
and And sometimes it's like that, just the need to be seen at work, just the need to be appreciated. And when you're advocating for that, it can be totally different than i need ah bigger raise or I need an office. What you really need is to be seen.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah. So now kind of looking back because, you know, you're in a different headspace now, if you could go back and like tell yourself when, when you were raising your kids and trying to be a corporate attorney and be a professional wellness coach, do all the things and have two kids, what would you tell yourself?
00:25:41
Speaker
What would you advise your younger version of yourself? I love that question. but I would really tell myself it's okay to get help.
00:25:52
Speaker
You're worth it. Because I kept leaning in. I wanted time with my kids. I really honestly did. But I had 24-7 with them, especially with a partner who was traveling full-time.
00:26:05
Speaker
And that was too much. That was way too much. and I kept thinking, well, since I'm pretty much staying at home now, my wellness career is only part-time, I should be able to cook and clean and shop and do everything with the kids and get no help.
00:26:21
Speaker
Oh my God, I killed myself. I absolutely killed myself. And I would really tell myself it, you are worth the money spent to get help. You are worth that. yeah You deserve just to sit on the couch sometimes or to take a walk. Yeah.
00:26:36
Speaker
I love that. i think so often. So I also did a big change in my career ah when my daughter was two, i left my corporate executive position and took a little bit of time I'm doing air quotes because it was not time off. It was much, much harder being with a two-year-old and then relaunched my coaching business.
00:26:57
Speaker
But I see that a lot where women who are full-time mothers think that they have to do everything. And I experienced it too. I mean, I didn't think I had to do everything because I think in my mind, i was taking my nanny's job.
00:27:12
Speaker
So I had to like everything that she did only. yeah And then we could we could split the rest. So I didn't feel that, but I did feel this pressure of like, now that I have this time,
00:27:26
Speaker
I'd better maximize it. I bought a curriculum for my two-year-old and I like planned activities every day because i I felt like I didn't have that time before. i had to like double down and make up for it and and make sure that I'm giving her like this amazing experience and that I'm fully present. I felt so guilty about not being able to be fully present all the time because I was working all the time.
00:27:47
Speaker
And so in my mind, I was like, well, now to be able to. so For me, from my experience, it was very much like I need to be like on all the time. And I know for so many women, i have coached women who are like, I think I have to do all of the laundry and cleaning and everything, even though I'm an executive at a company. So I i love that idea that things can be outsourced and and that you're worth it.
00:28:16
Speaker
And also, even if you do take a career pause or change careers or have conversations, more time that isn't at an office, it doesn't mean that somehow you could just take on everything.
00:28:27
Speaker
Right. It doesn't have to get to a crisis level. And I think that was one of those things I kept thinking, well, when it gets worse, when it gets worse, you don't have to wait until everything falls apart.
00:28:39
Speaker
Get help proactively. What do you think that's about? Because I remember covering this in therapy where I was like, I have to get myself to the point where I have to like throw up my hands and say, I can't do it anymore.
00:28:52
Speaker
And then like that is the time that I can actually rest, that I feel like it's appropriate for me to take a break, but not a second before that. Exactly. It's crazy.
00:29:02
Speaker
I think there's that huge cultural component. Yeah. You know, it's this rugged independence. It's this grit. We have grit. And there's just so much pride in that. And it is hard to back away from that. yeah And then I also think part of it is as women, you know historically we have been underneath men. We have been second class. We have to prove our worth.
00:29:28
Speaker
Are women allowed in the workplace? Should they be allowed in the workplace? Can they do what a man does? And that ancestral piece is hard to break away from.
00:29:38
Speaker
you know We know, yes, the answer is yes. But it's hard to break away from, oh I'm just going to sit back and do what I need to do. We still feel like we have to prove our worth.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's like that proving energy. Yeah, well, speaking of that, tell me more about your TED Talk. For those who haven't watched it, bye if you haven't watched it, definitely go watch it. But if you haven't watched it yet, can you just give us like an overview?
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's about bias in the workplace around women's sexuality. And it's fascinating to me because it's it's a lot around the male gaze.
00:30:15
Speaker
dress code for women, the way women look. We don't care how we look, but we are constantly managing what other people think about us. And what it was born from a story. The very first time i tried a case, I won.
00:30:31
Speaker
I won like in the first five minutes. I did a great job. I was a young student attorney, won my first case. The judge pointed his gavel at me and said, I want to see you in my chambers.
00:30:42
Speaker
And I thought, oh, he's gonna tell me how amazing I am. How could a student win this case? This was great. When he brought me into his office, he criticized the way I looked. asked me if I had considered wearing my hair up instead of down, because I have long hair.
00:31:00
Speaker
He said my legs were too nice and i should consider wearing pants because my legs could be a distraction. he said, i smiled too much.
00:31:11
Speaker
And I internalized that. I internalized that, that I should not be practicing a law. I needed to look totally different. I needed to cover my body. Not once at age 25 did it dawn on me, he is judging me based on his interpretation of who I am based on how I look.
00:31:30
Speaker
And there's so much bias around women's sexuality. And it's this whole virgin whore dichotomy. And we feel it too. you know Do I spend enough time on my hair and makeup? Do I spend too much time on my hair and makeup?
00:31:46
Speaker
Do I wear clothes that are attractive, but is this too tight? Should I pull my shirt up? Is this too much cleavage? There is so much wasted energy everything. on Women's sexuality based on how people perceive us.
00:32:01
Speaker
And it's insane. And that's what my TED Talk is about. It's about identifying that, supporting women to be and to look and to do however they want to be and look and do.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, that story infuriates me. And also, we've all had some version of that in our careers, right? Which is yeah even more infuriating that probably the majority of women who are listening to this relate or are going to say, well, that never happened to me, so there must be something wrong with me that someone didn't say my legs were too nice.
00:32:32
Speaker
There's no winning. I had Dr. Amy Deal on here who did research and found that for like 32 different measures, a woman was either too much or not enough.
00:32:43
Speaker
There's no perfect, like there's no perfect age where a woman is like the right age to be employed. She's either too young and she's probably gonna have babies, you know, and leave, or she's too old and too set in her ways and she's gonna be stubborn
Bias Against Women's Sexuality in the Workplace
00:32:58
Speaker
and not trainable.
00:33:00
Speaker
There's no like, oh, here's the right age you can be. So that kind of reminds me of that, of what you're talking about. It's like, how do I walk that tightrope? And it is exhausting. It is draining how much energy we have to put into that. And I think the other thing that I find really interesting about that story, because as I was listening to it, where my mind went was, how do i set my daughter up so that if she has an experience like this, she can look at it critically in a way of like separating this other person's thoughts and opinions about her
00:33:38
Speaker
rather than internalizing them. Because at 25, I was internalizing them too, right? We all are. And so it's like, how do we set up our kids, our daughters and our sons not to do it, to not internalize those kinds of comments?
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a lot around judgment yeah and just being aware of what is that judgment and knowing yourself. Because when I know myself, you can judge me any way you want and it doesn't change me.
00:34:06
Speaker
You know, you can judge my voice, my looks, my choices, you know, and that's why I love bringing up the whole concept of burlesque. For me, taking burlesque classes,
00:34:17
Speaker
was empowering and it was liberating and it connected a lot of dots for me. Are you judging me for that? Did you, when you heard me say that, where did your mind go?
00:34:27
Speaker
Did it go, oh my God, she was a stripper. Does like, where does it go? That's a judgment piece and that is a reflection of your learning, not mine.
00:34:39
Speaker
yeah It doesn't make me not a good mom. It doesn't make me not a good person. And I just love pointing that out because I have judgments too. We all have judgments, but it's noticing.
00:34:51
Speaker
When I took my first burlesque dance class, that's where I went. Well, I'm not going to strip. I'm not about stripping. This is not about, it's an art form. And I had to break away from my own judgments.
00:35:02
Speaker
And if people judge, it says things about them. It doesn't say anything about me. Your judgment doesn't change me. So I think raising our kids to be very aware of judgment and where are you letting yourself get dented by other people's judgments? Where are you taking on that judgment?
00:35:21
Speaker
And it's not about being defensive because sometimes there is some truth in judgments, but how can you look at that critically and be like, no, I know who I am. Yeah. But it's also like, how do we also do that? Wow. I feel like there's so many, like I'm picturing like all these things coming at us we're just like shielding, you know, ourselves because it's like,
00:35:40
Speaker
What about all the people pleasing that, you know, women are expected to do to make sure that everyone else likes them and how much we are taught to value and to put so much weight on other people's opinions of us? And do they like me or not? You know, do these, even as women leaders, you know, women leaders have to work a lot harder to be likable. Whereas if a man is a leader, then it's more like, well, it's, Do we respect him?
00:36:08
Speaker
And we don't have to worry about, you know, it's not even a question. It doesn't matter if we like him or not. Yeah. For me, I think one of the biggest ways through that is by giving to other people what we want other people to give to us.
00:36:24
Speaker
And start noticing all the ways, I mean, we all do it when we judge other women. Well, she looked a little, you know, bitchy. Or, God, did you see what she wore? oh, I can't stand that screech.
00:36:37
Speaker
Whatever it is that we're judging, start being aware of that. Like, why am I extending that judgment, even if it's just in my brain? And how can I extend something different?
00:36:49
Speaker
Compassion, respect, respect. Whatever it is that I wish people would give to me, how can I now give that to the people that I'm judging? Because I think that's the only systemic way to start breaking that down, uniting us together so we can all move forward.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah. Curiosity. Yeah. That all makes a lot of sense. And I think that so many women who are listening can relate to kind of this experience. I was thinking about the other thing that really stuck out whenever you initially i wrote down a couple of things and we've covered all of them except for one is the idea of forgiveness.
00:37:26
Speaker
Because you said, my husband cheated on me for 15 years. It was a huge betrayal. We've talked about betrayal in, you know, throughout this conversation.
00:37:37
Speaker
That's a really big one, like earth shattering, like you said. How did you move past that and move forward? Because there might be people, you know, who are experiencing this kind of betrayal. So tell me more about that.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah. Many layers there as well. And we've talked on some of them too. yeah Okay. His cheating was not about me. It was about him. And for me, moving into the understanding and the untangling was more important than forgiveness. I think so often forgiveness is just this happy little bypass story.
00:38:11
Speaker
He cheated and i didn't know about it. He cheated because he was in pain. He cheated because he was severely abused, neglected, huge trauma passed, and he wasn't processing his trauma or acknowledging his trauma or getting help with his trauma.
00:38:28
Speaker
That said nothing about me. It said everything about him. Cheating for him was a coping mechanism. He was trying to get validation. He was losing his hair. He was gaining weight. His career wasn't going as well as he wanted.
00:38:41
Speaker
He was using that as a coping mechanism. And it had nothing to do with me. So that was that first piece. Why? Why are you cheating? You acted happy in our marriage.
00:38:53
Speaker
We had this great relationship. I thought, what is this subversive underground behavior? It's not about me. So depersonalizing it helped. Curiosity.
00:39:05
Speaker
What was that about? Why did you do that? That curiosity thing, but it had nothing to do with me. Now, the second phase of that is once this came to light, once I figured it out, things obviously had to change.
00:39:22
Speaker
I'm not staying in a relationship with somebody who is so wounded that they are resorting to this kind of harmful behavior. That was the turning point for him too, where all of a sudden for the first time, he's going to acknowledge, yes, I had severe trauma.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yes, I kept trying to push it down and never dealing with it. Yes, I need to start dealing with things and changing. yeah We needed to get couples therapy. We needed to learn more communication skills.
00:39:48
Speaker
All of these different things had to change. We separated for a while. i did a lot of my work. He did a lot of his work. He is now showing up as a completely different human in the relationship.
00:40:01
Speaker
From that place of untangling, from each doing our own work, now it's like, yeah, we're I can have a relationship with you. i have compassion and understanding for what you went through, for why you actually thought that would be a good idea.
00:40:18
Speaker
It makes sense to me why you thought that would be a good idea. It has nothing to do with me. And now you're showing up completely different and we've built a new relationship. So it's not even really so much about forgiveness.
00:40:32
Speaker
As it is about understanding, realizing that it's not about me, and seeing a different person in front of me. and So do you feel like you trust this person?
00:40:44
Speaker
Yes, and. And there's an important and there. yeah Do I trust him? Yes, because he is doing things differently. Because he is communicating differently. He's identifying his feelings differently.
00:40:57
Speaker
He is doing his own healing. He's seeing a counselor differently. Every week, he probably will for the rest of his life. He's doing, he's leaned into spirituality. He's doing energy work. He's doing channeling. He's doing like all of these different things.
00:41:11
Speaker
So he is back connected to who he is. He was a very good person. Hurt people hurt people. He was a good person. i knew he was a good person. He separated from himself and now he is back to being himself, but even more so.
00:41:25
Speaker
So yes, I trust him. And i trust myself. And I think that's where the magic is. I'm not abandoning myself anymore. I'm not sacrificing my sleep, my time, my energy.
00:41:39
Speaker
I'm not people pleasing anymore. I'm not going to put up with things that I put up with before. i am totally different and I am more self-centered in the best way. This is my life and things do need to revolve around me.
00:41:53
Speaker
Not at your expense, but I'm putting myself first. I'm taking care of myself first. If I need help now, I'm going to get help. If I need time, I'm going to give myself time.
00:42:04
Speaker
So I trust myself more. So in a way, it's not that I don't care what he does, but it's like, I don't care of what you do because I've got me. And because I've got me, anything around me can fall apart or not.
00:42:17
Speaker
And I'm going to be fine. I love that. Thank you. Yeah, this is fascinating to me. Because I think as you were talking in your initial story, whenever you got to the part that you're back together, thought, oh, we got to jump into that. yeah yeah Well, I have loved hearing about your story and learning from you. Is there anything else that I haven't asked you or that we haven't touched upon that you feel like, oh, want to make sure that everyone hears this or that you know that that you've learned along the way that you want to share? I think the biggest thing is being aware that we have this idea of this is how my life is going to play out.
00:42:57
Speaker
And when it doesn't play out that way, which it won't, that it's not wrong. And I think breaking away from the idea that this went wrong. My marriage went wrong. My career went wrong.
00:43:09
Speaker
This went wrong when I had kids with Down syndrome, whatever it is. None of those things are wrong. It's the expectation that was off.
00:43:20
Speaker
Everything is as it should be. You can manage and flow and create something that works for you, but nothing is going wrong. Trust that above all else.
00:43:32
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. it reminds me, i do these meditative walks in the mornings. It's been one of my favorite practices lately this summer. And one of the Instructors, one of the things she says is look around at everything and and try not to judge it as good or bad or challenging or helpful. It's just it's just all terrain. It's just all part of it.
00:43:54
Speaker
And I like looking at things sometimes whenever i you know, my daughter has screamed mama for the 57,000th time of the day or is um asking me a million questions or when I have emails piled up that I need to respond to or whatever is going on.
00:44:11
Speaker
I try and like breathe into it and remind myself, this is just all terrain. Yeah. Not right or wrong, not good or bad. just terrain. I love that word because it is. I could, because in my mind, I've thought, you know, it's like I've gone through this deep, dark valley.
00:44:24
Speaker
yeah It's just a deep, dark valley. You know, there's light on the other side. That's right. There's mountains, there's the oceans, there's all these things. so i love the word terrain. Thank you for that. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And where can people find you and tell us about like your services and what would people reach out to you for?
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. First and foremost, if anybody is going through an infidelity or a betrayal type situation, in any regard, your marriage, your career, your body, like the sense of betrayal, when when I went through menopause, I'm like, that felt like a betrayal. Let me tell you. all of the things. Reach out to me whenever you feel that sense of betrayal and you're like, I need help unpacking this, identifying it, figure out the tools to move through it because I need an actual solution.
00:45:11
Speaker
So we can coach once, we can coach three times, we can coach as needed. Whatever you need, i am here. Couple of different places that you can find me. My website is lauracheetle.com and my name is L-O-R-A. It's a slightly different spelling of Laura.
00:45:28
Speaker
O-R-A-C-H-E-A-D-L-E.com. But I've also got a Betrayal Recovery Guide, and it's just a simple five-step guide with a meditation, with some somatic tools, and you can get that at BetrayalRecoveryGuide.com.
00:45:44
Speaker
Okay, wonderful. And we'll link everything in the show notes so everyone can easily find Laura. So Laura, thank you so, so much. I've loved this conversation and I'm just so grateful to you for willing, like, I feel like, you know, whenever we go through a big thing in our lives, we have options of what we do with it. And you have obviously turned it into a way to help support people in a way to connect and put out more positive things into the world. So thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you Thank you for the conversation, for the depth and the understanding.
00:46:22
Speaker
Yeah, wonderful. Well, thank you everyone so much for tuning in and we will see you all next week. Bye-bye. um If you're loving what you're learning on this podcast, I want to invite you to come join me for the Executive Mom Reset.
00:46:36
Speaker
We offer both one-on-one and group coaching formats, and our next group is starting in October 2025. I created the Executive Mom Reset to help high-achieving moms feel less anxious, more confident, and more in control of their lives.
00:46:51
Speaker
Instead of feeling like you're being pulled in a hundred different directions, you'll learn how to pause, reset, and approach challenges with clarity and confidence. You'll stop running on autopilot, stop second guessing yourself all the time, and stop letting stress, guilt, and overwhelm dictate your day.
00:47:09
Speaker
You'll walk away with the tools and the confidence that you can use every day to feel stronger, more empowered, and more in alignment with the life you want to be living. head on over to coachleana.com to learn more and to get signed up.
00:47:23
Speaker
I really hope to see you there.