Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Aussie Hops Series: Ella - Presented By HPA
2 Playsin 1 hour
“Incredible. Sticky, glistening, super-intense resin and fruit goodness…”
In partnership with HPA, Australia's leading hop grower, we've created a series of podcast episodes – an Aussie Hop Series – looking closely at some of the country's most recognised and impactful hop varieties.
Over the course of the series, we're speaking with leading brewers from across Australia and abroad, as well as experts from HPA, discussing their experience with these iconic hops, what they've learned along the way, as well as some technical tips and tricks to maximise the impact of these hops in their beers.
For the third episode, we chatted to Jeremy Moynier, from iconic Californian brewery Stone, and Chris Swersey from HPA, about Ella, including Jeremy's first encounter with the hop at HPA's farm back in 2015.
For more information on HPA and their range of hops, visit hops.com.au.
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Aussie Hops and Ella
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey guys, it's Craig from The Crafty Pint here back with another episode of our Aussie Hops series presented by HPA. Over this series, we've been talking with brewers both in Australia and around the world about some of our most iconic Australian hops. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Chris Swersey from HPA and Jeremy Moynier from Stone Brewing over in the US. s ah Guys, great to have you on the show. Chris, good to see you again. Thanks a million.
00:00:34
Speaker
And Jeremy, welcome to the Craft Pint Podcast. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Characteristics and History of Ella
00:00:40
Speaker
Great. Guys, today we're talking about Ella, um one of my favorite Australian hops as well. I've got a few I've got to say, but this is a good one.
00:00:48
Speaker
um Chris, give me the give me the intro first. What's Ella all about? What are you looking for in that hop? How long has it been on the on the market and so on? Yeah, sure. Ella's just a beautiful delicate hop. She's kind of like the you know the quiet sister in the corner of of our six ah six proprietary hops.
00:01:11
Speaker
It was bred in 2001 and released 10 years later in 2011. So you know by our by our standards, that's relatively fast. 10 years is pretty quick to get a hop out the door.
00:01:26
Speaker
It was originally released as Stella. I think many brewers you know who've been around for 15 or more years probably remember that. It started out as Stella.
00:01:37
Speaker
i I haven't gotten the story yet from Simon about why why the name changed, but it was renamed later on to Ella. And it was across its pedigree as a high-alpha Australian male and um German spalter. So it's a you know beautiful...
00:01:55
Speaker
um you know, German, German landrace, very delicate, some spice, some floral in, in Spalter. And and those attributes really, they really unfold, you know, in in Ella um as ah as a triploid, the oil count is, is much higher than, you know, than it would be as a diploid.
00:02:18
Speaker
And of all of our, you know, of all of, all of our varieties, Ella is the one that, that hues, I suppose, most like that kind of, but make no mistake. It's, it's, um, it's much bigger than a, than a German land raised hop in terms of the shadow it throws and the complexity of its, um, you know, it's, it's, it's overall aroma problem. It has some sweet fruit. It's got some tropical, it's got some other things going on as well.
00:02:42
Speaker
Um, and I guess, um, You know, when I think of when i think of iconic U.S. brewers, i think of I think of Stone.
Ella's Role in Stone Brewing's Recipes
00:02:52
Speaker
Jeremy and I worked together for, gosh, nearly 20 years when I was at the Brewers Association, especially in the in the hop industry. and And, you know, when I started working for HPA, I had no idea that Ello was in Stone IPA, which is just an ah an eponymous you know craft craft brand. it's It's a flagship brand that's been around for so long and it's a beer I've admired and I i chase it down when I can find it. So anyway, what ah what a treat to be um sharing the room today with with Jeremy.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. And and Jeremy, you know I'm aware of Stone Brewing and and as Chris said, it's it's a very ah well-known name in in the United States craft beer scene, but i you know, we're an Australian podcast, a lot of Australian listeners. Give me the the Stone story in a nutshell.
00:03:43
Speaker
Yeah. um So Stone started in 1996. So a few years ago, we're we're creeping up on 30 next year. um And obviously the craft, uh, Craft World was a little different back in the 90s.
00:03:57
Speaker
Sierra Nevada obviously was was around and both our owners, um Steve Wagner and Gray Cook, were inspired by you know beers like Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale, also by this little brewery up in Temecula called ah ru um Blind Pig.
00:04:17
Speaker
And and yeah Also, Swami's, you know, out of Pizza Port. And so Southern California beers are really attractive to these guys and they decided they wanted to do something, kind of mark out and do their own brewery.
00:04:30
Speaker
um They landed here in Northern San Diego and San Marcos and started making bold, aggressive for the time, very aggressive beers and especially IPAs.
00:04:41
Speaker
um I came to Stone in 2004. four um and we were just kind of busting at the seams. that Crafts was just starting to really take off and I got to join at the perfect time and it was go, go, go and expand, expand, expand through many years.
00:05:00
Speaker
um Obviously things are slowed down a little bit, but Stone's really established himself at a nice level. um you know We're we available throughout the country and and overseas as well, but really our,
00:05:14
Speaker
are thing has always been balance. Our beers, you know although they were thought to be aggressive at the time, ah they've always been very balanced. And hops has always been our thing.
00:05:25
Speaker
um Mitch Steele was our brewmaster for a while and really kind of upped the game when he came to Stone and really started to dive into more of an array of hops as more varieties became available.
Discovery and Impact of Australian Hops
00:05:37
Speaker
and And was that, i guess, the the first experience you had with Australian hops and Ella in particular, that sort of broadening the the list of ingredients you were looking at?
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah, we we were just fascinated by hops, ah different varieties, but also different areas, especially the terroir of an area. and obviously, Australia has its own terroir and climate, as does New Zealand.
00:06:04
Speaker
um And so we were really just attracted by that. And these, you know, for the Australian hops at the time, Galaxy really blew us away. um And I was real fortunate to go over in 2015 and, you know, see the HPA facilities and have been lucky and fortunate to have been back there a few times to see how it's progressed.
00:06:25
Speaker
um And I actually found a note here on Ella from that first trip And it says incredible, sticky, glistening, super intense resin and fruit goodness.
00:06:37
Speaker
And I go, well, that's that's pretty good. That kind of sums up what i what how I feel about ah about Ellen. I love it. I love it. Chris, you got to put that on the on the sales sheet.
00:06:48
Speaker
Yeah, you got you got to send me that, Jeremy. That's that's magic. I will. I will. um But yeah, you know, and just besides using different hops, it's it's really about visiting these areas and getting to know the area and getting to know the growers and the people behind it.
00:07:05
Speaker
um And that just makes the connection all all the more valuable and really special. And and so I have a lot of have a lot of good good vibes around Australia, for sure.
00:07:18
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, tell me sort of what what beers, Chris minson mentioned the um iconic Stone IPA, what other beers are you using Ella in or is it primarily the IPA and and what are you kind of looking for from that hop in in all of those beers?
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, you know, in 2015, we were really stoked about Ella, Vic's Secret and Galaxy and we decided to make our ah Anniversary beer that year, which is usually a double IPA um with those three hops and pretty heavy Vic Secret and Ella on the dry hop side.
00:07:55
Speaker
And it really inspired us to what else can we do with these hops? You know, what what other beers can we kind of put those in? And about the same time, Greg had challenged us with redoing Stone IPA.
00:08:08
Speaker
And we thought, are you crazy, man? This is like iconic beer. Why screw with it? and This quote always sticks out in my mind. It's like, well, just because you've done something really well, does that mean you can't do it better? And so it was just kind of a challenge to see if we could update that recipe and and not go radically away from it, but add some dimension and complexity to it.
00:08:31
Speaker
And that's really where the the Ella and also Vic's Secret came into play. We didn't want to change all the goodness we were getting out of that, you know, out of the Centennial and the Chinook that are in that beer.
00:08:43
Speaker
and so known for that beer. But we were looking at trying to layer it and just kind of throw some more maybe floral and tropical notes and make it more complex. And that's where the the L and the Vic really came in.
00:08:57
Speaker
Fantastic. And um I guess, how would you describe Ella in terms of, i guess, point of difference to other hops out there? And it sounds like, you know, you're using a lot of US hops, maybe some European hops, New Zealand
Brewing Techniques and Partnerships with HPA
00:09:10
Speaker
hops.
00:09:10
Speaker
What, what, what stands out to you with, with Ella in particular? Yeah, I just think it's a really nice, it's mostly tropical, at least when you use ah a fair amount of it um and, and has,
00:09:24
Speaker
You get these mango and kind of papaya notes along with pineapple, but also there's a nice little citrus kind of back in as well. um We have a really cool single hop program that we do, and we've been using this same recipe for years to test our hops when we just want to do a single hop.
00:09:44
Speaker
um And what's cool is that we can share that information with the grower. So the first time we did Ella, we did send it overseas to HPA and we sent them are sensory and our charts for everything that we found in it.
00:09:57
Speaker
And ah both ah me and my and Steve Gonzales that I work with in innovation, we were just really blown away by this hop on its own. ah We actually wanted to come out with a single hop with it because we thought it was really cool.
00:10:11
Speaker
um And we actually did a while back when we had a single hop series, we did put it out a production released beer just on its own. And it got a lot of good response. um I think it's just it's a really powerful hop on its own. And I'm surprised that more folks aren't using it that way.
00:10:29
Speaker
But so having said that, it's really good as a combo. And Stone IPA is a great example that I think you can layer it in and it'll give you some complexities that are really cool.
00:10:41
Speaker
yeah I don't know if that answered your question. No, that's that's great. And I love the fact that you're, um, taking that approach to, I guess, really trialing each new hop in a, in a single hop beer for your own research and your own knowledge and, it and sharing that knowledge back with HBA. It sounds like it's a real partnership between you guys. Chris, is that, is that sort of a a process that you'd like? that Yeah, look, we're always, we're always looking to, um, you know, to gain insights from, from brewers, right?
00:11:10
Speaker
Um, you know, we, we, we sell hop, we grow and sell hops brewers, brewers, you know make the magic happen and, and make drinkers really happy people. So we, you know, we don't, we can't, we can't sell hops without brewers telling us that they, you know, that they love, they love what we're doing. And so, um, you know, we're always, we're always asking for sensory feedback. Um, and, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's an important part of, um, you know, for example, when we're,
00:11:41
Speaker
you know, thinking of commercializing a new variety. We're always looking for feedback from Brewer Stone. and Stone's been working with us recently on and some of those kinds of ah projects, which has has been great.
00:11:51
Speaker
um Jeremy, i was goingnna I was going to ask, just thinking about Ella, you do you see a difference in the attributes that you get between a, let's say a hot side, like a whirlpool edition and a cold side edition of Ella? Do you see different attributes come forward with that?
00:12:09
Speaker
we've used it We've usually layered it in on both sides. um So I don't know that I've seen a difference from hot side to cold side, because I think we've used it in tandem both times.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah. But I will say on IPA, it's only used on the dry dry hop side. So i I think that's where we're really getting kind of that nice tropical kind of additive punch to, you know, all the citrus that we're getting from from the use of Centennial.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, got it. And Jerry... I have heard that kind of the lower the lower level use of it, you can get some floral and spice. And i don't I don't think we've ever used it that ah that low on that kind of side.
00:12:54
Speaker
Jeremy, on that, I guess um one thing we've been asking each of the brewers in this series is sort of any technical tips or tricks that you might have picked up along the way to help you get the most bang for your buck out of these hops. Like anything you can share with with other brewers out there?
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I would I would talk about our single hop recipe that is just simple. um And always go back to just keep it simple. You know, just use some two row and use the yeast that you can depend on. We have a great house yeast.
00:13:28
Speaker
um And, you know, we actually will use Magnum as a bittering hop for our single hop. And we do that to take out the variable of the bittering side. And then we'll put the hop you know a fair amount in the whirlpool and then the dry hop side um so it's a real simple recipe but it's real repeatable and you get good when you just repeat something like that and so you have a nice consistent recipe um so that's kind of a general you know just about kind of testing hops um and i would i would carry that on to to our our beers as well that we release um
00:14:07
Speaker
You know, i mean, ingredients are amazing and you can use a lot of different things. um But if you want to let hops shine, i don't think you have to get too crazy. um You can really do kind of a basic recipe um and just look for ways to to make the hops shine.
00:14:23
Speaker
And then look at, you can learn from those single hop recipes and that can kind of inform you to what you're going to do on the combo side. So you might see Ella, for example, like we did, and we had done Vic and we said,
00:14:37
Speaker
well, let's try to put these two together. We think they would be a good combo and we love that combo. And that informed us when we decided to use that in our Stone IPA recipe. Yeah, nice one.
00:14:50
Speaker
Speaking of those kind of combinations, are there any particular hop combinations that that work really well with Ella in particular that you can talk about as well?
Successful Hop Combinations and Conclusion
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mentioned that anniversary beer that we did. It was called Thunderstruck. And we actually repeated it in 2023, called it Down Under Struck. So we bought brought it back, which we were really excited about.
00:15:12
Speaker
um And that's Galaxy Vic and Ella. And I think that's a great trio. Those hops really play off of each other nicely. And there's different intensities and different kind of tropical and citrus attributes.
00:15:27
Speaker
um Those three together are really great. We have used Ella with Citra as well. And I think there's another example of kind of taking that citrus side and then marrying it with more of the tropical side.
00:15:40
Speaker
So that's another combo that we've really been happy with. Jeremy, that's fantastic. and And guys, thank you both again for joining me on this Aussie Hops series presented by the legends at HPA.
00:15:51
Speaker
You can watch the full series on the Crafty Pint podcast channel on YouTube. I do recommend the video versions. We will be releasing audio as well. um And if you'd like more information about Australian hops and the all the glory that they can provide to your beer, head to www.hops.com.au. Thanks so much, guys. Cheers.
00:16:12
Speaker
Thanks. Cheers.