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Staying Independent, Innovative & Relevant For Two Decades
427 Plays4 days ago
“These large multinationals aren’t really interested in a diverse portfolio of beer. They would love it to be only two products but their hand is forced by independents."
Bridge Road Brewers’ story is one of the great stories of the craft beer era. It’s centred around a family-founded (and now partially employee-owned) business and features everything from a cross-hemisphere love story, global collaborations and inspired innovation to major events and even the creation of an independent micronation.
As they celebrate two decades of beers, we joined founders Ben and Maria Kraus at their ever-expanding brewery venue in Beechworth for a trip through the years – right back to the days when Maria was a ski instructor singing in a blues band in the Austrian mountains and Ben was washing glasses in a bar while learning how to make wine.
While much of the chat focuses on the evolution of Bridge Road Brewers and the manner in which they’ve pushed the story of independence as well as anyone in Australia, we also discuss their successful move into non-alc beers, beer tourism, their 20th birthday celebrations, and delicious drunken cows.
Before the main interview, Will and James cover the success of relative newcomer Eclectic Brewing at last week’s Royal Adelaide Beer & Cider Awards, the launch of our new Creating A Venue series, our Who Brews…? feature on fledgling Sydney operation Blackwattle Bar + Brewery, and the IBA’s call for submissions in support of their work around market access for indie brewers.
Start of segments:
- 11:01 – Ben & Maria Part 1
- 37:22 – Bintani Brewery Boosters
- 41:35 – Ben & Maria Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Travel Plans
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. How are you doing there, Will? I'm great. I'm here in Melbourne. Where are you, James? i Pretty random. It's a place called Mulga Camp. I think it's some sort of fort is's some sort of defense land or whatever. We had to fill in a form to in case we get checked for being here. It's basically on the side of the Stuart Highway heading north.
00:00:27
Speaker
towards Coober Pedy.
Beginning of the Adventure
00:00:28
Speaker
We've just been bombing it along um along since we left Melbourne um Saturday. I'm just covering as much ground as we can. Well, I did put call in to see um Brad and Nicole at the Overland Corner Hotel yesterday. So we had a bit of a chat with them that will be in a future podcast. um And now it's a case of just sort of dashing up to meet some friends in Coober Pedy, then carry on north. So may the adventures begin.
00:00:53
Speaker
Great. What a holiday you're having, eh? And here to Talk about the week's news while on leave. Well, yeah, it's semi-leave.
Work and Travel Balance
00:01:02
Speaker
My wife, thankfully, has been ah doing a lot of the the Ks behind the wheel so I can sit there having thrown a few dollars at Elon Musk, of all people, to stay online while we're driving. So it's actually been a very efficient way to catch up on my email by having it out of office whilst actually working the whole time on the way up. So we'll see how it goes.
Awards and Brewing Achievements
00:01:21
Speaker
Well, continuing the theme of SA, although you won't be there for much longer, that there was the awards over the week though. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. and Royal Adelaide Beer and Cider Awards um had been taking place for few years, part of Beer and Barbecue, run as a standalone event this year.
00:01:35
Speaker
um And I guess the the big takeaway there was um Eclectic Brewing, who um I guess and they picked up an award last year. Was it for Best New Exhibit? um And this year that they've taken out, was it Most Outstanding Beer and Show and Champion IPA for one of their beers? And we had to do a bit of sort of hunting around to work out who was behind Eclectic Brewing.
00:01:54
Speaker
I found some delightful old homebrew articles and some you know amazing stuff online and about Chris. And I know you've been in touch since since the awards. Yeah, I just shot the team an email and they got back to me. So I'm just sort of trying to arrange time to chat to them to find out more because they are a relatively new brewery. Somewhat, I think, unusually in the modern era, they don't have a tap room at the moment.
00:02:17
Speaker
So it'd be great to hear about it. But, you know, it's good to see a DDH double IPA win a beer and show. Yeah, yeah. And I think some people were just saying they're like the quiet achievers of the South Australian beer scene. So, um you know, we'll do our best not to ruin that. Too much for him when we chat to him and and get Chris's story.
Opening a New Venue with Steve Jeffers
00:02:35
Speaker
um Now, since we hit the road, Will, you've launched a new series, um Creating a Venue, which is something that you'd sort of first put forward a few weeks ago. um i guess a bit of a sort of insight, picking the brains of someone who knows a thing or two about building beer businesses.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Steve Jeffers. So I guess a bit of background on this is my thinking was, you know, often when someone announces a venue, we might do a story and then maybe when a venue or maybe when a venue is just opened or about to open, we might chat about what's going on.
00:03:07
Speaker
And in this case, I kind of thought, well, why don't we talk to Steve while he's opening the venue ah to sort of maybe try to piece together a bit more background on what's going on. Yeah.
00:03:17
Speaker
No, we did one ah many moons ago now with Matt at Boat Rocket when he was moving from being, you know, i guess contract brewing his beers to building a brewery. And that was ah and a series that garnered a lot of interest. So it'd be really interesting to hear what Steve has to say. It was interesting even in part one that he says a lot of the principles he took to, he's taking to Happy Camper are ones that he's always stood by, despite the fact it's a very different sort of landscape
Evolving Venues and Traditional Elements
00:03:42
Speaker
now. And it sort of ah reminds me of some of the stuff we've discussed maybe, you know, the last five, 10 years that,
00:03:46
Speaker
It's probably harder to maintain the success of a very pointy and hardcore beer or any sort of venue, whereas good pubs, good venues, they've been around for over a thousand years. And, you know, I guess a lot of the things that make a good pub or a good inn as they would have been or a tavern over the years work are still there. And I guess, you know, it's evolving that with and cut current tastes.
00:04:06
Speaker
So, yeah, be really interesting to see how Steve translates that into another business in an area that hasn't got too much in the way of craft beer and also what he's doing aside from craft beer.
Venue Design and Future Stories
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um So he's hoping to open by November. he' Really fingers crossed there. So we think maybe there might be, and ah you know, one more in a month and a half, another just before opening, hopefully, and we'll get like a nice sort of yarn about what's going on and and what his challenges have been and, you know, what is difficult at the moment. One of the things I like as well is He talks a lot about working with Studio Y, who are a pretty impressive architecture design firm. So Stomping Ground was their first venue. And um as we'll hear from one of today's guests, they are they highly rate Stomping Grounds opening as a quite a moment in craft beer and sort of really pushing hospitality in a brewery further than had been for a long time.
00:04:59
Speaker
And Studio Y, they've also worked with Bridge Road in Brunswick East, another reference for later on. or You've already seen the title. And also Brick Lane's place in Queen Vic Market, Starwood, and and some other great um pubs like ah Fifth Province in St Kilda. So it's good to sort of ah look at that as well. We'll have to do a story on Studio Y because they're making very impressive venues at the moment.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
Blackwater's Craft Beer Scene
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. um And also you put another article live today by Jason, who's i'm doing but a lot of stuff for us from the Sydney scene at the minute on Blackwater Brewery and Bar. Yeah, absolutely. So Blackwattle opened late last year in the suburb of Alexandra.
00:05:38
Speaker
um i don't think they're technically allowed to be in the Inner West Ale Trail, maybe. They might not quite be in the local council area, but I think Sydneysiders would call it Inner West, Inner South. ah's So they are in their inner city. They actually, if Bracket Brewing was still there, they would be a block over from Bracket Brewing. Of course, they've moved to Marrickville.
00:05:57
Speaker
now, but they're also Blackbottle, they're quite close to two halves as well. so So um that would be a nice little trailer of three, but it's a trailer of two. And it's an impressive venue having not been there. But um I love their focus on live music having opened it, but building a stage and they seem to be getting a really good crowd in as well.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yeah.
Market Access Challenges for Breweries
00:06:19
Speaker
um And something that we saw go out for the Independent Brewers Association this week, ah you know, they've obviously made a lot of ah progress and a lot of noise and got gotten a lot of support from the media and consumers and brewers around um the issues like excise tax issues, tax reform issues leading up to the election. Now they're, I guess, putting more of a focus onto market access, like tap contracts, that side of things. that I know sort about, you know, best part of 10 years ago, the ACCC concluded,
00:06:44
Speaker
It wasn't anti-competitive, but you know there's more money going into the ACCC from ah the re-elected Labour government. I think they're hope hopeful to get some some motion there. So I think they're they're seeking submissions, is that right, from breweries and who who are keen to have their voices heard about the challenges that independent brewers are facing in a sort of very closed-off market.
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it it it looks to be a very simple form to fill out. Like um with these things, I know it's always a challenge to get people to fill in forms, but if you've got a moment, you know, this is really important if you want to let people know, the people that matter know, you know, how you feel you've been excluded from the market, how how you feel you can't get access, those
Community Engagement and Nominations
00:07:21
Speaker
kinds of things. I think all these stories do build up, but it does require people to do a, um really what is a skerrick of work, I think.
00:07:29
Speaker
will take you mere moments. Well, talking of letting people know how you feel and skerricks of work, we've got three other ways you could do do that. ah The Crafty Pint podcast survey is is still available if anyone wants to let us know what they think of the first almost year of the Crafty Pint podcast. We'll include the link to that in the show notes.
00:07:47
Speaker
um As ever, we're seeking yeah your your nominations for Good Beer Citizens of Australia in our Have You Done a Rallings and campaign. That's craftypint.com slash rallings. And if you'd like to shout out a brewery that you love, you can of of course nominate them for Bluestone Yeats Brewery of the Month. That's at craftypint.com slash bluestone.
Brewing Journey of Ben and Maria
00:08:07
Speaker
Excellent. um And I guess on to this week's guests, two people who probably don't need much of an introduction, but we I guess we'll give them one anyway, um who met you know when one of them was singing in a blues band in a and a bar in the in the mountains of Austria and the other one was over supposedly learning how to make wine.
00:08:22
Speaker
Actually, James, I'm not sure Ben Maria have ever been introduced quite like that. But that was a bit more like, you know, this sort of um so some sort of TV dating show from the 80s, wasn't it really, as opposed to beer podcast. But, you know, there you go.
00:08:38
Speaker
Or a late Monty Python ski sketch. Right. Yeah, it was great to have Ben Maria on, but great to have both of them on together. um This was the start of our sort of road trip we took the other week. Obviously, we start off the chat reflecting on 20 years and how they've managed to do it. I think anyone who's heard Ben talk will know how passionate he is about independence and also growing sustainably, growing organically, which they absolutely have do. You hear both him and Maria talk about that and how they've managed to...
00:09:08
Speaker
not overcapitalise, not overinvest and sort of build a very strong brewery that hasn't grown as rapidly as some others, but has ah remained independent, remained always um the cutting edge, I think, of a lot of brewery trends. that They're always quick to do it. The first Australian Saison you drank would have been from Bridge Road.
00:09:29
Speaker
Surely James? Oh, yeah, it would have been them or Temple. I'd imagine it would have been Bridge Road. It was definitely one of the early ones. But, you know, they they were doing international collaborations pretty much before anyone else and doing amazing collaborations, always trying, you know, new. They were the first people to do a hop series over here celebrating Australian hops. Just, you know, were always innovators. But I think one of the... but yeah the One of the um terms that we're listening back to the chat was baby steps.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I was thought about using that in the title of the podcast and then we didn't, but they talk about how it's always been, an ah you know, slow, steady, um manageable growth from, you know, um yeah once they decided to do what they did um and it seems to be going well for them.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So i enjoy the chat. And if you do enjoy it, make sure you like and subscribe and leave us a review. Cheers. Cheers.
00:10:16
Speaker
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00:10:26
Speaker
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00:10:41
Speaker
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00:10:52
Speaker
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00:11:02
Speaker
Ben Maria, thank you so much for joining us. No worries. Thanks for coming up to Cold Beachwork. It's not that cold today. He's only come across from cold bright. It was pretty cold in Melbourne this morning as well, so all good.
00:11:14
Speaker
I think we should start with the anniversary. So how does it feel to have made 20 years running your independent family-run brewery? Ah, it makes me feel old. Really?
Challenges and Milestones
00:11:25
Speaker
20 years, a long time. Yeah.
00:11:27
Speaker
Half, nearly, more than half my adult life, but yeah, yeah all of my adult life almost. Same with me. It makes me realise how long I've been in Australia, half of my life or yeah more. yeah And the celebrations were obviously another MAC-2 bomber and a party up here.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, we we released B2 Mac 15. So we do that every anniversary. I think since our fifth birthday, we've been releasing anniversary beers inspired by Murray's anniversary ale. They used to have an anniversary beer, sort of gave the idea to do that.
00:12:05
Speaker
And we had a community party really. We just had fire pits at the brewery. um Some friends, a friend who's a music musician came along and played. um Amanda who's been working for us for 16 years. yeah She's the longest employee. yeah She made us ah a cake.
00:12:22
Speaker
um Yeah, we just had a bit of ah a party outside. Michael Ryan from Providence made a cocktail with B2 Bomber called Green Bomber Jacket. He makes his own chartreuse called In The Weeds. So it was that and gin.
00:12:38
Speaker
um And then Wild Pies are a new local company and they made a pie with B2 Bomber as well. So we had pies and cocktails and beers and fires. That's all nice you need.
00:12:49
Speaker
Still relatively small scale compared to some of the events you put on here, though. so Yeah, yeah. it's more of a celebration. we We reached out to all the community groups that we've had something to do with and invited them to come along schools and yeah kindergarten. Just the locals who come and drink here. We just, you know. right just It's nice. That's what we like, just an intimate, yeah smaller.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah. It felt really nice. was good. It was good. Yeah, nice. Did you ever think you'd, you know, make it to 20 or is it like running business? Is it just week at a time, year at a time? Like, how's sort of feel to have that milestone?
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah, i didn't ah didn't I don't think it was ever part of the plan to not make it to 20 or make it to 20. It just sort of There was a plan though. yeah Yeah, there ah there was a plan to to start ah a business and make it successful. But yeah, 20 just came around just like five did and 10 did after that.
00:13:41
Speaker
so um We don't really have a plan. We just sort of hope for the best. But I actually i have to say... When we first started, I thought, what the heck, this is not going to, like, I never thought we were going to survive for, like, I just thought, he's crazy. But I'll marry him anyway. yeah Because, you know, it was really his dream and i sort of tagged along and I really questioned it quite hard at the start. Still questioning righting it Sometimes. yeah I'm more the critical person the side. What were you doing and back home before moving over here then but and getting involved in this business? I came here quite young. Okay.
00:14:19
Speaker
So just before I came here, I was a skiing instructor. So quite, you know, living the party life. But I did study. I was a kindergarten teacher and social worker. So that's my background. That's good for managing people coming into a brewery. Yeah, yeah. So I'm a social worker in the brewery, you know, managing staff. And, know, it's...
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Comes handy. Well, going back to the start then, I mean, we've written about it before. lot of people know sort of you guys came to be doing this, but take us back there anyway. You went to Europe to learn to make wine, didn't you originally? Or you were a winemaker that went learn make beer? Yeah, yeah, grew up here in Beechworth and then ended up doing some work in a local winery and getting interested in wine.
00:14:59
Speaker
I didn't do well enough at school to get into, I wanted to get into industrial design in Melbourne. I didn't didn't make that cut. Ended up going to Dookie Ag College to study viticulture and some wine making. So once that was all said and done,
00:15:15
Speaker
As soon as it was done, like a week later, I shipped off to with a mate to um Germany to wine vintage and we you know did the Euro trip, Oktoberfest, travelled around. He after vintage, I think we went to Ireland for a couple of weeks to spend all the money we earned.
00:15:30
Speaker
um He came back to Australia and I stayed on to sort of do a winter season in Austria and then do further wine vintages in Europe. um So that sort of that kicked off ah an interest in beer. I was wanting to do something in wine to begin with, and it was great to see all the different you know angles of wine in Europe. And I came home in between to do vintages back here.
00:15:54
Speaker
ah since it's a fairly extended period. Yeah, over a four year four year period. why And university as well, so eight year period or something. i was in uni at 17. I think I started school when I was young or something. I skipped a year. I up not getting into uni. Yeah. Yeah. Got to use that next year. Yeah. So they and then eventually fell into beer because coming home, I was less impressed with the the beer than I had been when I was at university and realized that there there was something going on and and there was an opportunity to do something.
00:16:28
Speaker
other than what was available here, particularly in regional Victoria.
Early Brewing Challenges and Influences
00:16:32
Speaker
you know, stale, full or stale white beer essentially it was what the quality of beer and just the diversity was lacking. Who was making beer anywhere in this wider region back then? Was it just Buffalo, Bohannon? Yeah, Bohannon was there. And yeah, there was... Pride started.
00:16:49
Speaker
A year after us. and right sorry but then They were one year. yeah but And then no, before that there was in, yeah, I think you you mentioned it before there was someone in Rutherglen who started around the same time. yeah um I think they became O'Brien's maybe in the long run. There was there was ah was definitely a Vintana or something. Yeah, Vintana. Yeah, that was in Rutherglen.
00:17:09
Speaker
They're long gone now. It's the worst thing I've ever put in mind. And yeah, their Bremen Brewery was a small brewery like not far from here at Wangaratta. The best Lams ever.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah. ah They were part of the original original High Country Brewery Trail back in the day. Yeah. But yeah, there wasn't much. We um but eventually convinced Maria to come back to Australia for a trip and we travelled from here to do a vintage in Western Australia and ah worked at Howard Park Wines and Bootleg Brewery were down the road and we'd been to Little Creatures in f Frio and that was sort of the inspiration to something similar here back home. yeah But did did you learn to make beer in Europe as well? Is that right? you went yeah so the the last winter season vintage I did, Maria lined up work for me in Sudsirol. So poanno yeah yeah, so Italy, but Austrian speaking part of Italy. you'd met on the slopes, had you? or
00:18:06
Speaker
What did you Did you meet on the slopes? Is that how you... Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. yeah um Actually, no, you were the bartender, the glass washer in my bar. I was drinking and you cleared my table. No, some mutual friends, but yeah in the ski area. Maria was singing in ah in a band, I think, when we first met. Yeah, a long time ago.
00:18:28
Speaker
um In a blues band in ah in a town down the road from from where we both worked. Okay. Yeah, so that that, yeah, Maria came back to Australia and then we did a road trip over to WA. Yeah, you forgot to say where you learned to brew beer in Austria.
00:18:47
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:18:53
Speaker
holes in the memory now. 20 years of abusing beer. Yeah, so we did a wine vintage in Sudsarol and then returned for a winter season in a place called Beer Himmel, which means beer heaven, and it was an upstairs live music venue that had beers of the world, so it had...
00:19:12
Speaker
I think Francis Karner was the wheat beer on tap in small kegs to make sure it stayed hazy. And we had Budvar at a Czech was there as well. It had really good, good quality beer.
00:19:24
Speaker
um So that was interesting for me just to work in ah in a, you know, it was live music venue too. um And then i worked because it was interesting beer. I enrolled in a postgraduate diploma through uni Ballarat while i was living in Austria.
00:19:37
Speaker
And then was doing that in my free time and um I had one day a week off, which is Tuesday, and I went and worked for free at um to roll a beer. Remember the name at a um a little industrial estate in Innsbruck.
00:19:52
Speaker
So they're still there now. um A really small, maybe a ten heck brew kit with some fermenters making traditional Merzen and and ah maybe a Pilsner and a Hefeweizen. Austrian beer scene is pretty boring. it is still It's changing now. It's changed slowly. They're very behind, really conservative.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yeah, but, you know, what's that? We'd be in Lager. That's probably it, you know? And Maria, what was it like moving? So you would have moved to Margaret River first and then Beechworth, that would have been words apart from Margaret River. Yes. I came here first. first Okay, right. I still remember was Ben's sister's wedding.
00:20:28
Speaker
So was my first outing coming here to this wedding and I was very ah overwhelmed with the whole and Beechworth, I'm from a small mountain town, so I don't mind small towns. It's nice, you know, but um i I think I told the story a few times, but I thought in my head, Beechworth is at the beach. It's like, what's going on? So I was a little bit disappointed. Yeah.
00:20:53
Speaker
20 years later. Yeah. Still. No. ah love be now I No. Yeah. For people don't know, the brewery wasn't always here. and I know it was say i'll be the other place for a short period of time. draw tip Tell people what it was like, know, the very early days of Bridge Road when the first... Yeah, it's ah it was a short time. It was a long time it took us. ah um We were originally established the brewery in the sherre shed or garage next to my parents' house a few hundred meters from here.
00:21:19
Speaker
um And that was both of us had jobs working in a local restaurant and I also worked in vineyards um and we sort of did it in our
Bridge Road's Growth and Community Impact
00:21:30
Speaker
spare time. So we spent a year renovating the shed, buying equipment, which I bought from a brewery that had already been established but closed down and from Panola in South Australia.
00:21:40
Speaker
um yeah and then it was a year of getting that all up and commissioned uh battling council for for the whole year because it was in a residential zone this took a long time to get it it was going to be the end of the world and it turned out they approved it and it wasn't who who would have thought um and it was quite controversial the local planning department recommended it not be approved and we canvassed the local um councillors who overruled the planning department and let it happen.
00:22:09
Speaker
um So yeah, every permit from there on has been a ah good challenge. You get the long memories. When you get the, oh, not so much anymore, but back back then it was a bit of a struggle. But then um I guess they they the local planning weren't keen on seeing something like that in a residential zone.
00:22:29
Speaker
um ah But and and then within 12 months, we realized we needed more space. um We had originally wanted this location, but it wasn't available. But then the ownership changed hands and were offered the opportunity to move into half of the space we're in now. So we so we made that step after one year.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah. So it was. It was a bar like the one behind me but with wheels here. Bottling wheeled the bar out of the way. Did you know this side? Was it just that side of the building originally? In the original but in the... Back in the shed. It was really small. Everything was mobile. The bottling line was on wheels. We sort of wheeled the bar out side, set up for bottling and then finished bottling, clean up and then set up the bar. The little grain mill, you know. Yeah, had to carry it outside. A couple steps up. tip it in and catching on it on the bottom and yeah and also remember we had a couple of cows back in the day steers and sometimes it happened some of the brews didn't go that well i remember i was usually just a yeast yeast which was okay no anyway no you know there's something yeah whatever so the cows got lot of
00:23:38
Speaker
lot of booze. I remember one of the cows, I remember, couldn't stand up. Like, how's that trying? I was right in the middle of town, too. It seems like I had no one's... Drunk in the party. The meat was so good, hey? Yeah. We claim it because they had so much booze that the meat was already marinated. and and So it could be the next, you know, the Beechworth Wagyu is basically just like get cows pissed. Yeah.
00:24:04
Speaker
Nice. And then you moved away and you had, like what where did you get the gear from? because You had the old wood clad. Yeah, that was that was from Panola. Lawrence Victor Estate was the name of the, it was a winery company that set up this brewery. They'd obviously seen the idea of having craft breweries in a town and tried it in Panola, but it just didn't make money and and they didn't see value in it. So they sold the equipment.
00:24:28
Speaker
So yeah I went there with Dad and tandem trailer and picked everything up. And then the brewer came. Yeah, he kind of did the first, put down the first beer with us. yeah yeah but And then steady, I guess, growth and everything. When was it you did the big sort of upgrade in terms of the brewery here? That's a fair while ago now, isn't it? Never. yeah But you put the bigger brewery in. Yeah, it's always been baby steps. So we took over this side of the building. The guy here used to run a secondhand store is still here every week. He's our customer. So we were brewing in where the main bar is to my right and we had grain storage in here and then the brewing equipment that's sitting behind me, we commissioned that.
00:25:13
Speaker
i don't I don't know when, but that was when we stepped up scale. yeah um And then we decommissioned the old brewery and that was purchased by um New England Brewing. And they've just decommissioned it. I think sent it, sold it on someone else. so and And before it came to Panola, it was in New Zealand. So it had done life in New Zealand. Panola, Beechworth, Yooralla and then wherever it wherever it is now. So stainless ah has has one think good life. Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
um So it's pumped out some beer and then you know the the subsequent steps here have been you know when money's available we've reinvested in different different equipment. You've kept moving back and back haven't you? yeah Potentially there's no much further you can go. Yeah, we have space. I'm going warehouse on the next block over. But it but it's it's always been an ideal to have production in the venue and make sure that brewers feel connection to the people that they serve beer to and that people who come here understand that this is a place that makes beer. So rather than it's been, it would have been easier to go to an industrial shed and set everything up. But it's quite nice to be able to continue expanding and take on the challenge of fitting into the space we have.
00:26:29
Speaker
And guess you're pretty central to the people coming to the town, like the appeal, the attraction of Beechworth itself, and I guess even the wider region did as well. I guess is that something you hope to see and that I guess the locals are pretty happy with to have this sort of, you know, flagship sort of you business within town?
00:26:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's been nice to be able to build it and see people, you know, but with friends who've told us that part of the reason they they moved to town was because there was a nice place like this to come to, so that's kind of nice.
00:26:56
Speaker
um And it's always about trying to make somewhere that maybe we'd like to go to when we visit somewhere, but make that in our hometown and make it available to everyone. Yeah. Yeah, we are definitely a community meeting point, you know, like, don't know if we've had wags here, we had, you know, not many weddings, but we had a few. yeah um But yeah, that people seem to like to meet here or if, yeah, it's nice to be that center.
00:27:22
Speaker
Well, I guess there's always been, a long while there's been a focus on the food as well, which I guess is important for create that sort of hub as well. Yeah, that's something we saw as a point of difference, even though it was pizza and beer, we we tried to elevate the offering and we have a pretty you know wide menu and and we try to make sure that the food is um as interesting as the beer.
00:27:43
Speaker
You know, that's part of what we do here and in Brunswick as well. Yeah. yeah And are there any big highlights like back on the 20 years, like anything that really stands out? I'm not sure. it's sir I think for us personally, our highlight would have been or for me definitely was being able to set up the business that we could take a year out when we went to live in Austria for a
Work-Life Balance and Non-Alcoholic Beers
00:28:04
Speaker
year. for so Obviously, COVID fucked that up. But until I mean, it didn't matter what you were doing at that time, yeah your good time was going to end yeah um regardless of what it was unless you were, i don't know, selling PPE or something. um yeah so that was probably a highlight to be able to get the business up to speed um business was running profitably without us uh being able to take that that time out and do that plan that we had set out was was probably for me that was a highlight to be able to do it and then come back and find our way back into the business again
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah, because I think a lot of brewery owners would potentially be jealous of that, that idea of being able to step outside of the business. And also Ben, you seem to spend a lot of time sort of on the business and sort of on the grander vision rather than potentially in the day to day. I don't know, maybe you are in the brewery.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah, it ebbs and flows. i'm not I'm not in the brewery on the tools. I like to to be aware of um and be part of any developments we do in beer, beer cross, like in my opinion, even when it's not welcome.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, and being able to, time's are a little bit harder at the moment, so probably a little bit more in the day-to-day in managing things, but but generally, um you know, being able to set strategy and be able to um find space and headspace to to deal with the market at the moment is important as well. So I'm lucky that, ah you know, I don't think I could define my role very well, but I do lots different things. man, I would say, maybe. yeah i'm the I'm still the kitchen bitch. Still banging out the pretzels. No, but also I can step away if it's great. But if it's if it's holidays, it's game on. you know I'm still in there. and
00:29:47
Speaker
ah When this place gets busy, it gets busy. Yeah, then you're just all hands on deck. Yeah, yeah. um ah I know didn't put it in sort of the suggested question, but guess in terms of highlights, you got your first Avers Trophy just a few weeks ago. um you know Congratulations on that. But I guess the other with that was it was for one of your free time beers. You've actually released a a fair number of non-alcoholic beers now. I mean, is that something that...
00:30:12
Speaker
sort of came to be because of the success of free time, which is, I mean, you're looking at the market going, this is where things are heading and we should you know specialize in that. Cause you've done sours, you've done fresh hop, you've done non-alcoholic IPAs, done a fair number of beers there now.
00:30:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, we we held back on on doing a wider range of beer non-alc space for for quite a while, withre you know considering how we normally yeah and our industry is pretty prolific in re releasing new versions of things um because we really had a long way go to go into penetrating the market with free time.
00:30:43
Speaker
um We still got a long way to go to to make it ah an everyday item for for bottle shops or even in supermarkets. We're in Woolworths with free time at the moment. um But yeah, we we had a plan to have a release and extend the the range for quite some time. And this year we we sort of brought it to fruition with at the IPA we released, the Wet Hop free time as well.
00:31:06
Speaker
um And then we've developed a Stout and a Sour as well. And we've got a program of of launching them. And I think part of doing that is to bolster the position of the original free time and showing people that we're we're doing these other things. But don't forget, we've got this original one that is really great.
00:31:23
Speaker
And it's what we do with pale ale as well. We do a whole lot of different things, but but essentially want people taking Beachworth pale. And, you know, that's that's where we drive people free time and pale ale.
00:31:34
Speaker
So I think, you know, that we've we've been part of a lot of new things in craft beer, new as in, you know, Australian market yeah um and and free time as part of it the newer world of non-alcoholic beer and we're continuing to do that. so So we're releasing, by the time I think this goes live, we'll we'll have free time stout, which was canned last week. It just gets checked off.
00:32:00
Speaker
for stability before we release it to the public. So that should happen in the next day or two. What about a free time Hefeweizen? That would be a thing to do, huh? Yeah, way too. Popular in, you know, obviously Germany and Austria. That's actually one will Australia lags behind or just come come comes now. They had the alcohol free beers for a long time.
00:32:19
Speaker
yeah i'm Very popular. Yeah. I'm going to see a European Cup game many years ago. i was living in Munich. and yeah every Every other game you went to, was soccer, football, in Germany, you could drink alcohol because it was a European game and yeah the Brits were so but bad. Even though it was a game between Bayern Munich and Barcelona, you still couldn't have alcoholic beer.
00:32:40
Speaker
So I bought my first ever non-alc beer and i was like, are sure this is not alcoholic? Yeah, it takes me back. There you go. yeah But um yeah, it was all because the Brits, like, you know, several countries away were so badly behaved that yeah no one across Europe could have any alcohol yeah within like five Ks of the ground and on those nights. um And where we in terms of making those beers, have there been like new learnings you've had to make to like make good non-alcoholic beer? Because we did a feature not long ago. People won't give you their tips on how they make it. Everyone has their sort of own different ways. Yeah, I think it was that, you know,
00:33:13
Speaker
ah When we made the decision to create a non-alcoholic beer, i was living in Austria and I'd seen a proliferation of the beer there and i also worked at a brewery and had access to some pretty good lab equipment. and So look at what the makeup of all those good beers were or the ones that I liked. Shouldn't say good, the ones that I preferred.
00:33:31
Speaker
um So was able to to get that information also from brewers in Europe. um And then i think, you know, given the way the market is in Australia, when you have a niche um at the moment, you really want to hold on to it. So there's probably as much as people will share some info, they they probably want to keep some cards close to their chest because, you know, if you have an advantage, you need to hold on to it for as long as you can.
00:33:57
Speaker
But but move brewers move around and quite a few brewers who who have worked here that don't work here anymore since we've made it. And you're going, oh, they're making lot of coffee beer now. And when you say in Germany, because you went you did a bit of work at breweries when you were doing your year away from bridge Bridge Road, didn't you? Is that right? It was more once COVID really screwed everything over and we weren't able to travel back to Australia. It was quite frustrating. Business was struggling, needed something to do. And there was an opportunity to work at a brewery that was just opening. So i've got a commission a brewery and some guys there.
00:34:31
Speaker
um So yeah, that was a good way to can get my mind off of it. I'd love to go back and have a chat about sort of the family side of the business, independence.
Success Factors and Market Adaptation
00:34:41
Speaker
Before we get there, um anything you think has been key and in getting you to 20 years? Because there's been a lot of breweries have opened and closed since you guys poured your force first beers. So what's been sort of key to keep getting Bridge Road to this point?
00:34:55
Speaker
I think, I think having, since we opened, we, so the, the first weekend we opened, we had a retail experience. We also wholesale our beer and you could buy a beer online in 2005. Wow. Um, so having that, those things always available, yeah um, you know, this was something that, that is key. So that diversity of market, um, well, I think also the fact that we,
00:35:24
Speaker
you didn't seek outside investment for a long time, allowed us to be in control of things and and probably um controlling our debt and yeah and making sure we've had we've had some really good management. So I must mention our staff that work really hard for us, um that you know have helped us make some really good decisions, particularly in that COVID period and post COVID. um being tight and putting money away and making sure our tax dollars weren't spent. um We'd see there's plenty of plenty of examples ah of people not accounting for their tax and and that's where their debt lies. So um we've we've always managed to even when things are really, really, really tight. More recently, we've always managed to put our tax dollars aside.
00:36:11
Speaker
Um, one thing I bang on about all the time is we charge the right amount for our beer, um, which makes it seem expensive, but I can assure you we're, we're not, we're not, uh, we're not raking in the margins to Sahi or Kiran are raking in.
00:36:26
Speaker
Um, yeah. And I think that, you know, that, That's something that's really in the last years, being able to to maintain some margin and not be sucked into the race to the bottom yeah is really important because we can pay our tax bill, you know. Be extravagant with your events and your beer styles, but be very sensible when it comes to running the business. yeah yeah But I agree on that. Yeah, we just had a really organic grow, you know, like at the start too. You can see some businesses that open up and it's everything is sparkling and they've got 20 employees straight away. we At the start, it was just me and Ben and then slowly we maybe had
00:36:58
Speaker
one apprentice and, you know, very slow growth, wasn't it? And we did probably have an income for the first five years. So all all of that, you know, I think that all adds up and then slowly rather than, I mean, unless you have money, but you didn't have money.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah. Great. Well, let's take a quick break. Cool. Cheers. Sounds good. Cheers.
00:37:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another Bintani Brewery Booster. I'm joined by Sam, Technical Sales Specialist at Bintani. Thanks Will. Thanks for joining us again, Sam. We're here to chat about recipe reevaluation and continually improving your beers. So a brewery's got an award-winning beer, why would they change something that's a good thing?
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's important as as brewers, we generally want to put out a consistent beer and certainly our customers want to have a consistent experience when they're enjoying our products. We've got to keep in mind we have seasonal ingredients, not just hops, which everyone's aware of, but certainly malt year to year and also varietal change that happens with malt.
00:37:59
Speaker
So it's important to be looking at our beers year on, year out and make sure they're still delivering what we hope to achieve from them. And also in another way, the market as well will change over time. So the same beer that we've had two or three years ago might be perceived differently through consumers' ah responses in different times.
00:38:15
Speaker
And certainly sometimes you notice in competition where the beer you've had that's been, you know, either winning gold medals or silver medals and then sort of drops out and you're saying, I'm brewing it the same, but what's going on? There's yeah certainly a reason to to look into that.
00:38:26
Speaker
Right, Sam, I imagine it's not all about just more hops all the time. Like, where do you think breweries should look at recipe development? Or is that the answer? Yeah, no, as much as yeah we we, you know, wish in the sales sort of worlds of of our jobs, you know, more and more and more. But um that's not the reality for for brewers and also what what our customers are looking for.
00:38:44
Speaker
In some instances, in in a flavor shift, it might be ah a change in hop lot or sourcing. So you might have a profile that changes year on year and want to be using from a different area or different growing region.
00:38:56
Speaker
Sometimes on ah a pricing basis, there's different pressures as well. Something we're seeing a lot at the moment is in a base malt for customers where there might have been a larger range in the past to be more consolidative in their use of base malt and also a bit more domestically focused, particularly on you know a high cost, high use ingredient to make sure you're understanding what you're using consistently and making sure your bottom line's in order.
00:39:19
Speaker
And Sam, do you see breweries often trip up in certain places when they are working on their recipe? ah Trip up maybe not so much, but we do notice sometimes that they're often within particularly craft beer industry, sometimes there's restlessness to change things for the purpose or just for, you know, things have been the same for so long, wanting to just change things up and keep them keep them interesting, which can work, but sometimes, you know, can throw throw a bit of a spanner in the works.
00:39:42
Speaker
And the other time also is when breweries will change on a cost exclusive basis, looking to understandably in some ways reduce costs in different ways, but how that impacts the beer that they've been working on can have a different effect on the beer output and how they're perceived, you know, or how those beers are perceived by their customers and that sort of thing.
00:40:00
Speaker
It's important, like most things, to look holistically at any of these changes and I guess work out what the intent of these changes is and your starting point, finishing point, and yeah, what you're hoping to achieve. Yeah and are you seeing any sort of wider trends in terms of breweries that are looking to re-evaluate or develop their recipes in different ways? what What's sort of happening out there?
00:40:19
Speaker
So a couple of ones we're sort of seeing more broadly is certainly um hop usage and profile changing. ah As there's more sellers on the market and more diversification of of growers, are brewers looking to change and get much more in tune with the hop profiles they're looking for.
00:40:34
Speaker
That's also not always about using more. There's some great great knowledge in that area of hops that can be used at a lower rate but with similar outcomes and that sort of thing. Also, as we have now in books more advanced hop products be to about a tweak and change profiles of hops, delivering yield and also reducing cost of the beers on that sort of front.
00:40:54
Speaker
um Finding also as well breweries now reassessing their ranges in core range, being a little bit less hands on heart potentially to those beers that have worked for them forever and looking where those calls are needed to make the hard call, reduce the beer from the range, change it into a seasonal, change it with something else out, keeping the messaging on strong for the whole brand but making sure that the range is working for everywhere it needs to work for those breweries.
00:41:18
Speaker
Fantastic. Sam, if people wanted to contact you, how do they find you? Hit us up, sales at bintani.com.au and ah me or one of the team will be happy to be in touch. Great. Thanks for joining us again, Sam.
00:41:28
Speaker
Thanks, Will.
00:41:34
Speaker
Welcome back. Let's talk about independence. Ben, you've been definitely one of the most vocal people to talk about independence, I think, in Australian beer. Do you think it's cutting through it all where do you see it?
00:41:47
Speaker
um but i don't know if it is is cutting through. It has cut through and and I think depending on... I don't know what it would be financial availability of people making decisions.
00:41:58
Speaker
It continues to cut through. I think it's a an ideal that most people align to that the idea of supporting local or an independent business over over a multinational business um that that's sending its its profits anywhere or hiding them and not paying tax maybe or sending them overseas or or sending them to Australian shareholders. But I think people are genuinely interested in being able to to divert their dollars in whenever possible to independent business or a small business when they can.
00:42:28
Speaker
um But I think that's also depends on their financial standing at the time. So often the the larger multinational companies either have a cheaper offering or they have a better sounding offering so that that's goes the same for hoteliers and and wholesale customers um you know ideally they'd be liking to have lots of independent beer on tap but sometimes the larger corporations are allowed to make things look very attractive by giving money or or rebates and things of which make that ideal harder to reach, I guess. And I was thinking that about like things like sustainability in breweries and, you know, there's a new technology or ideas coming through for the beer industry now.
00:43:08
Speaker
They've probably probably been developed by other businesses outside of beer during the good times. And now they're trying to sell it into an industry that's going, i can't even pay my stuff. You know what I mean? It's probably that kind of thing. oh i really want to support that local brewery. But for now, I've got to wait till, you know, a mortgage comes down or whatever. Yeah. yeah And accept the contract of five years because it'll, it'll help me in the next, next six six months or something.
00:43:30
Speaker
But I think I'm also really strong in that independent space on a macro level, because the reason I started making beer was because the market was dominated by a juopoly in Australia and they had no competition and no need to, to do anything new and interesting apart from cold filtered lager or whatever
Independence and Innovation in Brewing
00:43:50
Speaker
it was at the time. Yeah.
00:43:51
Speaker
you know, whatever the next summer's greatest hit was going to be. Yeah. So in terms of the quality and diversity, there was there was no one pushing it. and And it came about in Australia because of independent craft brewers.
00:44:04
Speaker
They challenged them. And I still maintain these large multinationals. aren't really interested in a diverse portfolio of beer, they would love it to be only two products. yeah But they're forced their hand is forced by independence. And if it was only a duopoly, I'm sure we wouldn't see a a wide range of flavor profiles or color of beer or yeast strains used. It all become more linear. Well, we're seeing something similar, I think, with retail at the minute. Endeavour and Coles were all over the Indies for a while.
00:44:31
Speaker
And now that things have changed and spending patterns are changing, they're deranging a lot of people. And it's like, oh, we'll sing this glorious song about how much we love local independent businesses. But since it's not working for them on the bottom line, see you later.
00:44:47
Speaker
And and it it goes across the food industry, you know, every industry, I think. So, you know, it's that that decision of if you're interested in diverse food and beverage offering and you and you have the money to to choose something that, you know, is local or independent or alternative to a chain store, i think people would love to do it. Sometimes it's convenience and sometimes it's it's money. um Yeah, so um we we keep keep on you know banging banging the drum for independence. But ah you know it isn't on everything we do, but we make sure people know about it and we do encourage people to buy independent. And you know when someone mentions CUB, I mention Asahi. i really don't like people to come down to the individual brands because I think it's important to have the conversation and say, well, it's you know Stone and Wood did this project for the for the environment. And it's like, well, is that Asahi now? Is that Lion by? like you know well is yeah is kieran doing that across the board or are they just doing it for a little brand to make it look like they're doing it if they are great but you know i always bring it back to the the top of the tree because that's that's real that's that's what it is it isn't any of the sub brands it's the top brand and in terms of selling the message like as we were talking about indie beer but just staff's t-shirt they used to say family owned and now i think they all say family
00:46:08
Speaker
and employee owned is it about changing that or making sure it's what you want to be telling yeah but this there's only so much room to on ah on a can or a bottle to to share information so we use the independent seal on that um and then family owned but then it's employee owned as well and we also have um we did our um share raise as well so we have shareholders as well so it's a way of trying how do you tell all this information and at the same time. um Independence is a good one. And yeah, we are family and employee owned, but we have shareholders as well. Yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
And in terms of the the different methods you use it aside from putting stuff on the labels and stuff we talked about there, you've done, I guess, some more high profile, you know, ways of getting the message across. um How's the micro nation going? Yeah, we haven't done, haven't done, haven't exercised our rights for national independence, but Who knows, we might have to defend ourselves soon with the uber current current things that are going around. yeah but it But what have the stunts or sort of the the campaigns done over the years?
00:47:12
Speaker
Have you found that some have worked really well, that you know that may be transferable to other people trying to get the message across to their consumers? I think it's just consistent consistently you know telling that story and being able to talk about it when you get asked a question around it and when having initiatives that that that make people aware, um whether it's an ownership thing like Crafty Pine have done with their ownership of beer. it doesn't it It might get some coverage and it doesn't end up on everyone's fridge or back of the toilet door, but they've seen it at some point.
00:47:43
Speaker
And it's the same as branding and anything. You just want to keep repeating that message until people can understand it and hopefully see value in... And get your daughter selling food at your festival as well. Yeah. For the kids front and centre. Child labour.
00:47:57
Speaker
What about what's your take on how the beer industry has developed? Does it surprise you or do you think, you know, I know you've gone to America a lot and looked over there, like is it stronger, fuel breweries more? Like like what's your take on the sort of growth of the market here?
Rise of Neighborhood Breweries
00:48:12
Speaker
um I still remember. Can I just – because I'm not the beer person here. I'm the pretzel person. But I just remember that that the starting days when we started. Do you remember there was the federation – Federation's Great Showcase. Do you remember that too?
00:48:27
Speaker
And I think there was like, we went down to that and there was maybe 15 breweries or something like that. yeah So that's, so going from there to you how many are out there today? Victoria alone is well over a hundred. you know yeah yeah That's been within 20 years, I guess. That's the growth. So that's quite explosive.
00:48:47
Speaker
in other words because that that was like That was the but highlight, that was the way you went to learn and who was doing what. Yeah, that was good. You kind of knew everyone. I don't know actually. I don't even know what's out there. Too much. yeah um Yeah, and I think ah from those days too, that we opened with the hospitality offering and we drove that hospitality offering.
00:49:08
Speaker
And even though there was a proliferation for a decade of of craft breweries, I don't think we didn't see the the hospitality model that you see commonly as a brew pub in the US. um Little creatures kicked it off from in my mind. That's what I saw this, you know, big industrial craft brewery that had a hospitality offering as well.
00:49:30
Speaker
um But I think that seems rather slow to kick off in Melbourne. Now there there are lots of brew pub models that have production and um and a bar. And then I think the most surprising for me thing for me recently is to see how many neighborhood breweries have have taken off. And I probably wasn't across that so well. We've been to America a few times to do Firestone Walker Festival as a family, and I've been there for judging the World Cup and seeing little isolated pockets. But we haven't done a brewery tour of the states or anything where it's to wholly focused we sort of try to do some family time do the the weekend of brewing activity and then move on and of course we if there's brewery going to check it out but it's not the purpose of that the journey um so i think yeah seeing that um proliferation of neighborhood breweries also um the fact that
00:50:22
Speaker
ah Recently, it seems to be the model of selling on site, but even um interestingly, the um the smallest brewery still making beer for wholesale. I wonder how that model, um I'm surprised with that model because the margins on on wholesale beer, particularly in keg. It's super low, Melbourne really low.
00:50:43
Speaker
um And I wonder, you know, there's excise breaks in there for small brewers. But I wonder about the model of someone with really small production cap capacity servicing a wholesale market with new kegs.
00:50:54
Speaker
that That's, you know, it's tough at our scale and we're not massive by any means, but at small scale, must be really tough to to make money out of that. man In terms of neighbourhood operations, I guess you're part of one of the busiest neighbourhoods in Melbourne now with the opening of Bridge Road in Brunswick.
00:51:11
Speaker
um I guess your own neighbourhood brew pub. And that I was out last Friday, the Friday before, we about wandering around that part. You can walk to a new brewery within 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes like for all all night in Brunswick now. So how how are you finding that?
00:51:27
Speaker
and And I guess and also... Was that always the plan to have a Melbourne Outpost and how did it come about? um so That's a new bit. Melbourne Outpost was something I've been thinking about for a long time and and was but we could see how successful we were here, you know struggling to keep up when we when we were open and up and running and doing really well. And as I said, I was surprised the model we had probably until...
00:51:56
Speaker
you know, the the one that I saw really kicked off a great hospitality brewery offering was when stomping ground, you know, they hit the nail on the head with that. um And it's something I'd been thinking about forever. Wow. If I could tell if it's so busy here in Beechworth, what we offer to take that to Melbourne where there wasn't a full, you know, food and and and beverage offering. It didn't feel like there was. Temple had sort of done a little bit of it.
00:52:18
Speaker
um There was an opportunity. And then well i just didn't have the money or the time or anything or the headspace do it and then but we had been looking at it for a long time and we finally said yes to going ahead with it yeah um so yeah and and yeah it is there's so many breweries in in brunswick and east brunswick um and you can walk between them now uh pint of origin was great by the way we had a great um may that was really i think that that It sort of was enough to get people who knew about our place to actually stop in. So I've been meaning to go there. Now I've got a reason I'm going there. um So that was really good. And I'm sure we'll see business kick on from that. Not every week, but people say, oh, yeah, when there was a good time, and going back there. it's some my But you were pretty early into that development as well. Like this development still taking shape. Yeah, it's still under construction.
00:53:09
Speaker
Will loves it because he loves the cinema there. So he gets cook it to yours, have a pizza, have a couple of beers. Tuesday night, $10 movie, chips. It's the greatest. Yeah. It is. It's really good. When you don't have kids in front of it. Well, when we go there, we send kids to the cinema or we go ourselves. So yeah, it is. It's a really convenient location. I think it does have a nice feel to it too. Yeah.
00:53:36
Speaker
and And it's got a very different feel to here though. Was that deliberate? You wanted to have something that was really contrasted with the more rustic you know i feel here? Yeah, I don't like the idea of insert ye olde Beechworth in a brand new building. it could have been done. yeah um But this place is like it because we've got some wooden posts and put them to prop up the floor. Yeah, look up, you know. Yeah, yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
But the team above us has been there for 120 150 years. yeah that did you know It just is it is what it is. and And when we were moving into a new location, it's like, okay, let's embrace that and do something a lot of new. yeah um Maybe, you know, I see how much um people seem to yearn for seventy the ideal or this idea of a 70s pub.
00:54:25
Speaker
I'm sure if they walked into a 70s pub, they would be changing their mind pretty quickly. The smell would get you pretty quick. You forgot your mouth guard. Stuck to the floor. hey Yeah. um and Yeah. But and and it's quite a contrast to to, you know, the older Melbourne pub scene. But we're we're not trying to be a pub. We're trying to, you know, be a brewery venue that makes its own beers. We also have Beechworth beers. um And we have a pretty different menu, I would say, than what people might expect when we go to brewery.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah. um But yeah, it's it's still going well.
Bridge Road's Expansion and Community Integration
00:54:58
Speaker
we're We're working on community engagement is our number one driver. That's how we built this place through support from the community. So and that's been more of a challenge down there because we're new to the community and the construction is new to the existing community. You know, there's that it's next to houses and it's a it's a massive development. So that's that's a big adjustment for local community. You know, there might be not so positive to towards a development like that being built in your neighbourhoods.
00:55:27
Speaker
I did notice you went in and pretty quickly and pulled together collab brew between the other breweries that had been there a while. yeah Anyway, it was like, you we're going to be all together.
00:55:37
Speaker
Run club and ride club and we've done a few clean up Merry Creeks and trying to show people that we can be a positive part of sponsoring primary schools, all that sort of stuff. It's what we do here. Yeah. um And we want people to use this as a social meeting place.
00:55:51
Speaker
um So we just try and build our reputation to show that we can bring some ne net benefit to the community. Yeah. Well, I guess the fact you have done it here means you've got runs on the board. It's not like you are a new business going, hey, we're just doing this for show. Yeah. I just go and check out what we've been doing for two decades, you know, yeah with the real deal.
00:56:07
Speaker
yeah So you've gone from what sort of 18 years, your homes in Beechworth, then you've got Melbourne and now you've got two as well because you've got the airport. Like, so it's been a pretty rapid development, hasn't it, of expanding the hospitality footprint? but Yeah, I think so. that the The airport came through, um,
00:56:23
Speaker
through a deal with Delaware North who, um, stomping ground and the tap house deal with in in the airport as well. And we'd been pitching to them to, um, to set up, uh, at the tennis St. Andrews beach, where we, uh, won that, won that pitch. We, we made a pitch to that.
00:56:40
Speaker
And on the back of that pitch, we sort of built a relationship with Delaware North and and the opportunity came up for the airport. But I think it's on the back of us progressing and doing things. So we were here and and then we developed Brunswick and then, you know, people say that we're doing good things. The Delaware North guys came and checked out what we'd done and and gave us the opportunity to set something up at the airport as well. Is the airport more a case of just providing the beer or? or Yeah, so so so designing the place, branding it, and then and then wholesaling the beer, training the staff. I'm sure the staff transitioned a bit, but we had all the staff.
00:57:16
Speaker
We had staff here in Beechworth and we also hosted them in Brunswick to teach them what we're all about and then stop in when we can down there. so And plans for any more venues, whether in Victoria or further afield? Maybe Austria.
00:57:29
Speaker
yeah intro was austria We did brew a beer over there. We had a mentioned it we had a um long time ago. We yeah did a brew over there in one of the traditions. yeah we We set up a Lost Valley Brewing Company and we did ah ah a beer release throughout Europe, a pale ale in a brewery that was...
00:57:49
Speaker
I don't know. Over 500 years old and they're never brewed in ale. So you can imagine this guy comes in there and probably thought, what the heck is going on? But you've actually done a whole bunch of pretty cool collaborations as well. Like, you know, you've you yeah well my introduction to ah ban at Struz. Oh, yeah, that was crazy. You did the beer with him. You did the and beautiful old...
00:58:10
Speaker
twin set of India Saisons with Ketel when he was at Nogna. Another one, the Italian guy. Yeah, Bira del Borgo. Yeah, that was amazing. Two collaborations with them. a Really good experience there.
00:58:24
Speaker
Stone Brewing in the States, we did a collab with as well. Oh, yeah, that's right. um It was really good being part of those festivals and events. So, Birra del Borgo, we went to, did we go twice? Once to their festival, once just to Rome.
00:58:37
Speaker
And they have an amazing festival or they did, I don't know if it still happens. There was probably some of the highlights too in the last 10 years to go and visit those places. like there was I never forget those you know yeah experiences.
00:58:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's a pretty not
International Collaborations and Future Plans
00:58:51
Speaker
part of your plan. You're like you you focused on your beer, your business, your hospital, not the fact that this beer you're making could take you to a brewery in in Italy or whatever. Yeah, and I think there there was also that opportunity because we often travelled to Europe um to see Maria's family and then I'd look for if you know work opportunities at the same time and the chance to travel and and experience different beers.
00:59:15
Speaker
yeah i Yeah, I need to make sure I call into a few breweries on our upcoming road trip. Oh, there's brewery next to the Friday. That's work expensive. Last trip, we went to the Oktoberfest, for example. All deductible. All lessons. Go on here. How many liters are a tax deductible on one day? That's the question. The kids had to guide us home. We sent the kids off the you know the house. that Have you guys been to the Oktoberfest? I've done Shtart Beer Fest, which takes you down a bit quicker. But they've got despair. It's like her like the Melbourne show you know it's like a fit so we just gave the kids some money or the credit card and say no cash no concession yeah all the rights and we were just in the tents you know and what about i mean what's you know what do you Fridge Road looks like in the next 20 years or 10 or two or two weeks you actually haven't had the conversation have you no i mean you know the the current climate
01:00:08
Speaker
can be negative, but there's also lots of positives to be taken out of it. So just sort of taking on any financial financial challenges as they come, um continuing to develop brand is something we work on, work on culture and communications within the team. That's really important as well.
01:00:25
Speaker
That's part of of what we you know work hard at and that's what we've been working on in in recent times. um continuing to develop the events we do we sort of bought high country hops to a record number last year after a quite few quieter years um and that's a lot of work to get at so far um yeah but i think you know get building up the the business financially that we can reinvest in things. There's lots of things we'd like to do here. Some some things are are wearing out a little bit over time. so
01:00:56
Speaker
no not Not you two though. i' Still full of beans. Yeah, so so, you know, just trying to make life more comfortable for everyone, I think. That's probably important to us. Our kids are growing up as well. and We need to make sure we've got time for them. yeah um Get Maria out of the kitchen as much as we can. Yeah.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, I think, you know, generally we don't we don't have any big project on the cards at the moment, apart from, you know, budget time at the moment, like every year trying to make sure we're set up for success, um developing brand and strategy, doing events.
01:01:31
Speaker
ah you know, pushing the things that are performing. So free time, as we mentioned before, free time stout, which is coming out. um Yeah, and then maybe a little bit of new product development was recently at the craft brewers conference in the States, and saw a few things, not trends that exist, but just got a few ideas. So I'm going to try out some, some different things later in the year, find different angle.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, for me, I would love to do more of those trips, you know, like visiting more of those unique breweries and having a good time. Yeah, come Ben. Make some more collaboration beers. Connections.
01:02:08
Speaker
um Yeah, and just consolidating things. Maria's been running, she just works works a little bit on the side as a cooking teacher at the primary local primary school yeah and we've been running competitions with the primary school and getting kids to come up with recipes for pizzas. Yeah, awesome.
01:02:25
Speaker
Just had the prize winners last week. Oh, is that the one that was on you walk in? Yeah, just community engagement. Yeah, yeah. um Oh, well, we'll wrap up pretty soon, I think. But before we do what's um one thing you really wish you knew back when you started for Drag all those years ago? That I'd be doing it for 20 years.
01:02:47
Speaker
That's a win, shall we?
Lessons and Advice for New Brewers
01:02:50
Speaker
Oh, there's no one thing. There's so many things. um Yeah, there's just lessons along the way. Maybe things you do differently, but you probably would have brewed the alcohol free beer a year earlier. Yeah, it's the market. um i don't I don't think I don't think there's there's not one thing I look back and think, i if only I've done this, you know, we'd be sitting pretty at the moment.
01:03:14
Speaker
um There's plenty of small things, I think, that that we could do differently, but You know, I don't know. You don't get hindsight. So it wouldn't have gone overseas if you would have known about COVID. I don't know.
01:03:25
Speaker
Maybe just a little bit earlier. Yeah. landed I don't know if I wanted to be here during that time. It didn't sound like a good time. We might have been as being in the Austrian mountains without a job isn't a bad place to be when you're not allowed to do much. Fair enough. What about Maria probably would have never, never let me start.
01:03:46
Speaker
what If you had known what it would be like 20 years. It's not that bad. But, yeah, sometimes I'm up, oh, what are we doing? You know, you get rollercoaster of time. That might be the case, whatever you were doing. Yeah, yeah. yeah That's life, you know. Yeah, yeah. So yeah it's been all right, I reckon.
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah. yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's always, you know, some things that could have been different or done differently. Perceiving trends, that I don't know, seeing, and even now it's really hard. People talk about ah when things return to normal.
01:04:21
Speaker
They're not returning. This is normal. Today is normal. Tomorrow is normal. um So I think yeah just being being able to stay nimble is important. um yeah And it's too hard to think back on what you could have done differently because you're going to deal with what you're doing today. Looking at a different way, if someone was looking to open a brewery, brew pub in in a similar town to Beechworth, somewhere else in the country today, what would be your one word of advice or warning to them?
01:04:47
Speaker
Depending on the model, there's there's lots of advice to to give. I think being aware of how much how much work goes into it. i think I think people are more aware of that than maybe in the past.
01:04:58
Speaker
um So be ready for lots of work would be my advice. For me, it's look after your community. Yeah. For me, that's all. If it's a small place, yeah you want to be friends with the locals. Like that's the key to success, I reckon. Because for for us, sure, in the tourist season, you know, we've got all the tourists, but then you have to open for the rest of the year. yeah So, andla yeah, I think it's really important too yeah to look after the community and offer things for them, you know, not just beer, also other.
01:05:26
Speaker
yeah So, you know, for for us too, like we learn quite quickly. If you want to get people in, you you have to have another offer as well, you know, some coffee maybe or some, you know, just to get people in and yeah offer some like we do the round club or something outside the pier, maybe even the place to go. And I think the play the play area slash death, death, death. Actually, that's the top tip for me. Kids playground. Yeah. Um, and ah whenever I don't get it as often, but I used to get calls from people who are saying, Hey, I'm can have some some your time I'm looking at setting up a ah brewery. um
01:06:02
Speaker
I would ask that person if they're passionate about beer, are you into beer? What beer do you drink? Are you looking at the next beer that's coming out? Because I think if you're not passionate about beer, just open a bar, don't open a brewery, beer you know, you need to really care about beer and be inspired by beer and be passionate about Because I think there's probably too many breweries that think opening a a brewery is enough to draw people in. that But it's not it's not the brewery that draws people in. It's the things that Maria touched on in this community or making a great product. You've really got to be passionate. If you're going to make beer, you have to be passionate about it beer.
01:06:37
Speaker
You can't just do it because you're passionate about business. yeah well There'll be a few outliers that succeeded where there their passion was money and business, but unless you're passionate about beer, I don't think it's a smart decision. I think people can generally tell as well. I think people work out pretty quickly if someone's new and the passion isn't there because the beer quality might not be there or it gets stale pretty quickly or the focus isn't quite right. It feels a bit off to the beer drinker now because they know what's going on.
01:07:01
Speaker
yeah There's so much competition out there. If you're not up there, then people are not going to go somewhere else, I guess. i And if you had one wish or dream for independent beer in Australia or for Bridge Road?
Fair Market Access for Independent Brewers
01:07:14
Speaker
Well, for independent beer in Australia, i think I think fair market access would be my um well my thing, you know, access to stadiums and and major events that that we pay for through our tax contribution to the government that that props up these things. I think um consumers and producers should have better access to the market, i think.
01:07:34
Speaker
if if that If that happened, if if we didn't allow um large companies to sell up 90% of the market, then it would be a happier place for our brewers and for consumers would be better off as well. yeah um you know that the The way the ACCC looks at things doesn't really look at the greater picture of you know yeah diversity and... Real choice rather than the illusion of choice. Yes, exactly. yeah For me still, I think sometimes it's not clear what's what, you know, like I just know my friends, they say, they still think, you know, I don't know, pirate life or whatever, oh, this this is independent, but, you know, more clear, like clearly a red light, all right, this is independent. An alarm goes off when you reach into the fridge. Whatever, electric shock, you know. yeahran ge that's That's our second podcast in three weeks. We've talked about shocking people, electric shocking people.
01:08:27
Speaker
Well, fantastic. We best finish there. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks guys. yeah Thanks for the support from Crafty Pint. And get in on Pint of Origin next year from the South of East.
01:08:41
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:08:55
Speaker
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01:09:11
Speaker
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