Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
A Family Affair: 30 Years Of Bintani
395 Plays21 days ago
“People’s tastes won’t go back to where they were before. So, whatever shape it takes in the next few years, we’re still going to see better beer in Australia.”
For 30 years and counting, Bintani have played a key role supplying the beer industry with essential ingredients. But more than that, they’ve also been a key pillar of support for brewers and industry events – and an important sounding board for ideas too.
For this episode of The Crafty Pint Podcast, James and Will were fortunate enough to be joined by Pete, Phil and Dale Meddings at Bintani HQ in Melbourne.
Pete founded Bintani in 1995 when he secured a distribution deal with DCL Yeast, which later became known as Fermentis, after taking still-at-school son Phil along for moral support.
He built the business to supply homebrew shops but, in the decades since, Bintani has grown with, and become a major player in, the craft beer industry. As a result, Phil and Dale are now co-CEOs of a much larger business responsible for putting products from a number of major brands into the hands of Aussie and Kiwi brewers, while still supporting all facets of the industry.
Before the main interview (and a detour into country music), Will and James chat about their recent jam-packed road trip, the former’s Beer By Design story on rebrands, the slick new Prospect Hotel & Cellars in Adelaide, and the addition of Kick Back Brewing to the Crafty directory.
As ever, we're always on the lookout for more Have You Done A Rallings? and Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month nominations, as well as listener feedback on the show so far. And if you're enjoying the show, feel free to like, subscribe, rate and comment!
Start of segments:
- 7:54 – Bintani Part 1
- 26:38 – Roxset
- 29:57 – Bintani Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Canberra Highlights
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and Will, yeah back on terra firma after last week's ah adventures. Yeah, it's ah great to be back home, but it was also wonderful check out some of the breweries of Canberra and wherever else we went. It was such a trip that I can't even remember now.
00:00:26
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was it was pretty full on. I enjoyed our little detour on the way back. We got to throw some snowballs at trees, much to my kids' disappointment that they weren't there for that. a Big drive down that rather steep hill where you were startled by a grizzly bear.
Upcoming Changes & Beer Branding News
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, it turned out to be a cow, actually. yeah So yeah, we we took the Brindies from Canberra to Tumut, which was a bit of a detour, but incredible. Basically, you go straight up and straight down and you get to see, we got to see snow. It wasn't quite straight, but it was a nice little warm up for what's lying ahead for me.
00:01:00
Speaker
um And this will be the last time but we record one of these in person together for a while. I guess we're going to say why, but I guess people will... discover why over the over
Controversy in Beer Rebranding
00:01:08
Speaker
the next few weeks. So um yeah, we should make the most make this a ah great classic intro before we have to start doing them remotely for for a few weeks Yeah, well, of course, and there's plenty of news to talk about, fortunately.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yeah, ah well, let's let's start with ah your article, one of them you've been working on for a while, um seems to be getting a good reaction already on socials, spiking a bit of discussion, um part of our Beer by Design series that we um kicked off with OnPak as part of our innovation section on the website.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, rebrands, they're always controversial. I think that there's always going to be haters and people who really don't like changes. So it was good to talk to a few people who are behind
Organic Growth in Brewery Design
00:01:46
Speaker
them. I generally, I think they're pretty good as well breweries. And it was interesting to talk to graphic designers. So thanks to Jared from Zendoke.
00:01:53
Speaker
and Vincent Casey, uh, for their insights on it. It's, um, yeah, sometimes you look at rebrands, I'm like, are they just sort of simplifying the can? Is that all this is? And and where's the end goal? Are we just going to end up with all these white cans that have nothing on them? At some point it sort of has to go that way, doesn't it?
00:02:10
Speaker
But it's really interesting to hear the insights of sort of how graphic designers cut away a lot of stuff and how breweries often, you know, find themselves in that situation. So I spoke to Doug from Shed Shaker where they organically should sort of grow and your core range comes in and things drop out and all of a sudden you look at your lineup of beers yeah and they all look very different.
Brewery Design Series & AI Collaboration
00:02:32
Speaker
Shambolic was the word Doug used to describe it.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. um oh I think he was saying that he'd actually been involved in lot of that side of things, but he has so many other things going on in the business outside of the business to to focus on. So I guess you're bringing someone in. But um yeah, so that we'll have a link to that in the the show notes there.
00:02:49
Speaker
um Still some more um stories to come in that series, um focusing on the design, you know the look beers. the way they land in your hand on in shelves and fridges that kind of thing. It's very nice to work on these with Mick, our writer Mick Woost. So we're sort of taking it one by one. And I think we bring our different approaches to it. But it's nice sort of going back and forth on him with ideas and yeah bring our own spin to them as well. It's yeah been a project I've really enjoyed.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think we've come with a few more ideas to sort of extend the series as well.
Adelaide Breweries & Mark Huber's Ventures
00:03:19
Speaker
Not a couple. So this may go on forever. Yes. And maybe one touching upon the impact of AI as well, which is a little bit on the internet in the last 24 hours.
00:03:29
Speaker
um Aside from that, we've had a bit of a, I guess, SA Adelaide sort of focus on on some things this week. So we put the listing live for Kickback Brewing, brew pub based operation in, I'm to Old Dinger, hoping that's the way you pronounce it, Beachside, just sort of south of Adelaide. I called in there with the family a few years ago.
00:03:48
Speaker
Really nice. It's that that sort of classic beer. or come one, come all sort community-focused brew pub. um And yeah, that they they've developed a good reputation within SA. Bryony from Flavor Logic put that listing together for us a while ago.
00:04:03
Speaker
you can check that out. We'll put the show notes there. um And also I spoke to Mark Huber, who a bunch of people will know from. he He's been involved in hospitalbo for a number of years. he was He was one of the people involved in Adelaide Beer and Barbecue Festival. um In the early days, he was one of the founders of Mismatch as well, which he stuck around with until last year.
00:04:22
Speaker
So he's got into partnership with a couple of other HOSPO mates of his. He used to sell stuff to them and now they've got into partnership together. And at a time when, you know, I guess more things are closing than opening, think there's a bit of a buzz around Prospect Hotel and Sellers. It's in the Adelaide suburb of Prospect where there hadn't been a pub for 100 years. um And I think part of it is that Mark's lived there for 20 years. He's like, I really wish I had a local pub. And he realized he was to have to open one.
Royal Adelaide Beer and Cider Awards
00:04:50
Speaker
They opened it in a building that wasn't a pub. um And if you look at it, it's very um sort of sleek looking venue, but supporting craft beer. And he he sort of chats about, I think he's still looking at the wives of Adelaide picture and go a lot of people who are opening in the city as a struggling and anything so that suburban venues that have that sort of appeal to families.
00:05:10
Speaker
It's not just a drinking pub, it's it says 60% of their, their takings are for food. And just talk sort of talking about how, um you know, the evolution of HOSPO and that side of things as well.
00:05:21
Speaker
um And then the I guess the the final Adelaide element, it's the Royal Adelaide and Beer and Cider Rewards. The winners will be announced on Thursday. so I guess the day that this
Bintani's 30-Year Legacy
00:05:32
Speaker
podcast goes out. So look out for those results hitting the website um before the weekend.
00:05:37
Speaker
Great. And then on to this week's guests. It was wonderful to have the three, I guess, steering personalities behind. I you were to the three amigos and do a little sort of, you know, give us a little dance there. But no, you're holding back. um well Pete, Phil and Dale Meddings from Bintani. Yeah, it would be kind of appropriate as well because Pete was ah even wearing like a wide brim sort of cowboy hat for the chat. Anyway, sorry, moving on. Yeah, oh obviously many in the industry will know, well, they will know Bintani and that they'll have met at least Phil and Dale. Pete stepped back from the business more recently, but he founded it 30 years ago. so it was great to have all three of them to talk about all things Bintani.
00:06:18
Speaker
yeah there's obviously we go into the backstory and you know the rather humorous first meeting he had with his his first person he was going to start you know importing yeast from but i think you know it's pretty visionary what he did back then you know starting bin tarl with that you the first um dry yeast coming in um and i guess helping in his own way sort of change perceptions around that sort of side the of the industry and obviously it's grown into ah something of a behemoth um and but but being very much a family business as well and it's not just phil and dale that and who and our joint ceos have been part of the business mean dale ever since he left university phil for you know probably about 15 years back in the business now but you know pete's wife margaret and you know the other members of the family have worked in the business as well um and yeah it's just i think
00:07:08
Speaker
Just a great chat to to hear how how they've developed that business over the years, but also how they've sort of managed the last few years in particular. um They'll be one of the biggest suppliers to the craft brewing industry. um They will obviously have suffered through VAs and closures, that kind of thing.
00:07:22
Speaker
Still seem
Family Business Evolution & Craft Beer Growth
00:07:23
Speaker
pretty positive about it. And i'm talking about how it's all about relationships, maintaining relationships with people, because, you know, if people are going to make it through, you want to, you know, continue working with them. So that was that was great to get some insight on on that as well.
00:07:36
Speaker
um And also a bit of a chat about Pete's root sort of retirement project, about he which he seems even more enthused than than the the beer industry. Yeah, again, anyone who's ah met any of the Meddings will know that they're united not just by blood, but by a love for country music. So if you listen all the way to the end, you get some treats on, you get to hear one of the best ways to listen to country music in Australia leo at the moment, or anywhere in the world. you can this is This is quite quite the promo there. Yeah, I think Pete would quite happily have done a full hour long chat just about and classic country.
00:08:09
Speaker
um So yeah, that's coming up after the break. um Really fun chat. And then yeah beyond that, we've got but another sort of seven or eight chats in the bag from last week as well. um So yeah, that's up after the break. Before then, um we've still got the podcast listener survey live at the minute. We'll include a link to that as well.
00:08:30
Speaker
Love to get your feedback on what you're enjoying about the show, what you maybe not enjoying as much, what you'd love to see more of, any guests you'd like us to get on. um So yeah, the more feedback we get get on that, the better. um And also don't forget to get in your nominations for the country's Good Beer Citizens in our Have You Done a Rallying campaign and also nominate your favourite breweries for the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month.
00:08:51
Speaker
um With that being said, um farewell from our in-person intros for now, Will. See you from the other side soon um before we head to the main show.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yes. Just to be clear, James is going on holiday rather than rather than disappearing into another dimension or something like that or or just walking off this mortal coil. ah So enjoy the show. And if you do, make sure you like and subscribe.
00:09:16
Speaker
Cheers. Cheers.
00:09:21
Speaker
For over 30 years, Cryer Malt has supported the craft beer revolution, supplying top quality malt, hops and yeast to brewers across Australia and New Zealand. They offer world-class ingredients, including premium malts by Barrett Burstyn, Best Malts and more.
00:09:38
Speaker
and top-tier hops from Yakima Chief Hops, as well as yeast from AB Biotech. With a passionate on-the-ground team, Cryer Malt is the trusted partner for brewers ready to break the mold.
00:09:51
Speaker
Discover how they can help elevate your brewing journey at cryermalt.com.
Supplier Relationships & Industry Innovation
00:10:01
Speaker
Pete, Phil and Dale, thank you so much for joining us. Fine. Thanks. Good to you fellas here. Yes. It's great to be here at the warehouse. and Outside of trade day. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a wonderful day in case anyone hasn't been a little ad for next year's trade day.
00:10:15
Speaker
It'll be on again. We're celebrating 30 years of Bintani. How's it feel? Yeah, 30 years. It feels just like 30 years. It's pretty good, really.
00:10:26
Speaker
I think the 30-year party that boys had here the other week was excellent. So it's it's it's showing that the business is going well still.
00:10:39
Speaker
and from when we started it like 30 years ago from just well from scratch so um so to to get through the 30 years i think it's been a wonderful achievement not not just for myself, but also the boys that are taking over and running it nowadays.
00:10:58
Speaker
So I think it's a wonderful achievement that Bintani in general has has made over 30 years. and what What age would you guys have been when Pete started the business? I guess you'd have been all going through school and uni or whatever, and it's just what Dad did, I'm assuming?
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, I was like three years old. He hasn't done but yeah'm gone far ahead or either. No, no, we were we were we we we' still at school.
00:11:24
Speaker
um we had I had first meeting with Fermentus when I was at high school. um We didn't have an office then. No. Yeah, I was in school uniform probably.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah, so that's a long time. Yeah, yeah it helps pretty much. Yeah, I think was studying for exams, but um yeah, we had a bit of a meeting in a hotel foyer and That was um my first yeah exposure to the business.
00:11:48
Speaker
you know That was pretty, when you look back, that was pretty exciting really because I met the guy that was the general manager of Fermentus, but in those days it was called DCL Yeast.
00:12:05
Speaker
and he came out and he wanted to meet me as a and we were because I was asking to be a distributor of the yeast and so he he came to Melbourne to meet me and I didn't have an office or anything like
Challenges in Craft Beer Industry
00:12:21
Speaker
that and so I said to him oh best I really meet you at at your hotel. I think that would work better for all of us.
00:12:29
Speaker
So then i and I then took Phil along with me because at that particular time I was wondering whether he really would give it the yeah distribution rights to me without um having some backup. So I took Phil along.
00:12:51
Speaker
ah He was the oldest of course. Phil used to. Your teenage son. And he yeah and f Phil became that we were I was in this business for the long haul, not just for a quick buck and then get out of it.
00:13:07
Speaker
so and and the general manager, he was a very, a really nice person, one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. And so we got on very well with him and he thought it was wonderful Phil coming along and so that's how that one happened.
00:13:25
Speaker
and yeah And just going back and sort of a stage, you know what was the i guess the spark that sent you down that road going, oh, there's an opportunity for me here to do this?
Community Support & Good Beer Week
00:13:34
Speaker
like ah It was a very different industry back then, obviously.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah, well... What happened before I started but Bintani, um I worked for a company that made malt extract and they also produced cans of concentrate for the for the home brew market and that's where I started.
00:13:55
Speaker
That's where I met DCL yeast or fermenters nowadays. ah and so But that then finished in 1990, that business finished.
00:14:06
Speaker
And so I stuck around for a couple of years and then decided in 1995 that I would a open up my own business and Prior to that I'd met these DCL guys and we that's when we got the relationship going and were able to open up ah distribution rights with them.
00:14:28
Speaker
And so that's how it came about. And so and and just still to home brewers predominantly then? Very much so. Very much so. I guess you count the number of craft brewers on you know one hand and they would have been so small. and Exactly. yeah Lord Nelson. like Yeah. no many yeah And there's really the the the hard thing about it was that everybody knew what a dried yeast was.
00:14:55
Speaker
and they all knew that they were making bread and they just could not get it through their head that these were a new type of yeast that would make beer and so it was a really hard sell and a hard slog there for the first few years and really speaking what sort of started of the whole ball rolling was the Wigan Pen in Canberra at that time.
00:15:22
Speaker
They were the very first people to take our 500 gram packs of yeast. The rest of them were 11.5 that were going into that were going into into the home brew shops.
00:15:35
Speaker
But that's how... that ah and And then, of course, it grew from there, ah but it was hard work. There's no doubt about it. Amazing how ah crucial the wig and pen seems to have been. We spoke to Willie Simpson and Catherine Stark for and this week's
Economic Strategies & Industry Adaptation
00:15:51
Speaker
previous podcast episode and Willie was keen to point out how much of a mentor Richard Watkins had been in his wig and pen days for him being off the ground. Seeing that primitive brew house as well and kind of going, oh, I could also do this potentially. It was the drinkers too. it was such a unique place. Like, Rich could produce these beers, but
00:16:10
Speaker
the crowd of people who were in there loving them, that was like a real eye opener. They was such an educated sort of um group of drinkers. Yeah. They're still all there as well. yeah like everybody Yeah. And I think that the that that Rich really made ah excellent beer, whereas some of the craft brewers that were getting off the ground at the time were really sort of making some pretty ordinary beer.
00:16:38
Speaker
but which right from day one made really beer. You've made some ordinary beer yourself. Oh, no. I've made it. We've been subject to that. When we were growing up, they had um like we didn't have grass in the backyard because he but you started brewing in like 200 litre batches or something yeah and had to dump some and it killed the grass. Good weed killer.
00:16:58
Speaker
but but I remember early days, even like 15 years on from when you started Bintani, some of the breweries I went to visit around Victoria when my wife and I first moved here and decided we were going to you know, I was going to launch the Crafty Pint. We'd pick up a bottle everything from every brewery we went and sometimes you come back and open them and go, yeah that's just the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth. And you're selling that to people over that your own bar at your place. it so It's amazing how far things have come yeah you when you look at in that way. Oh, definitely.
00:17:27
Speaker
And when we started, like there was only there was only yeah probably you could count them on one hand. how many craft brewers, well, ah that were around at that particular time.
00:17:41
Speaker
So it it it we were really in in the business right from the, yeah jump with the with the craft industry anyway. And what were your recollections sort back then? Were you used purely as like, you know, a prompt to seal the first deal? Here's all my employees. Don't worry. Don't look at their licences. Don't worry about how old they are. Or was it was there follow-on, you know, instantly from that? Or was it like, right, you've done your job, get back to school?
00:18:08
Speaker
yeah Yeah, like I left school, did university, and ah my first paycheck would have been in 2002, 2003, somewhere around there.
00:18:21
Speaker
And at that point, it was a still a very small business with a pretty limited pool of customers. But a lot of those guys are still around now. or Some have gone by the wayside, but it's um it's interesting to see who's
Family Bond & Business Management
00:18:34
Speaker
stuck around and been there for that entire journey and like you said the development of the beer styles, the quality of beer, the quality of equipment and ingredients, it's just been such a fast ride from from that point to where we are now. It's been incredible.
00:18:50
Speaker
and So did you come straight into the business from uni then? You were you know straight back into the the family fold? Yes, yes. I always say I've never never had a job interview. Yeah. And what what we what were you doing sort of back then when you when you first came in as sort of Pete's right hand man? Yeah, that we there was Pete, mum and myself. They weren't doing much. And we weren't doing much. No, no, we we'd go out for lunch and we'd close the business. and We had a good time.
00:19:16
Speaker
they weren't making any money they designed a really good belt buckle okay yeah it's probably the crowning glory of that first 10 years of the belt buckle yeah and you were off um doing you know yeah well yeah so i think when you were starting anyway in the early days of bintani i was doing university and um and we'd always just talk about the business but out of university i got a job um i did a commerce degree and then got a got a job with a with an accounting and finance aid firm and so you you were funding the family's belt buckle side projects exactly so yeah yeah yeah but i sort of got stuck in that for um for nearly 10 years and so i left i finished with those guys 2009 and then started at the start of 2010 with bintani um but it was still like at the time it looked like there was a lot happening in craft beer and there was but
00:20:08
Speaker
The business in the industry was still really small in 2010. I think we had six, I was number six in our business and the other um four of the other five were family members.
00:20:19
Speaker
Was it mum and sister? Mum, uncle, Dale, Pete and Brent actually. Brent was in the business and he ended up, he's still brewing over at Firestone Walker. So he was yeah he was the first non-family employee.
00:20:33
Speaker
so yeah so Yeah, and this has changed so much since then. But but like going back to the original start with Fermentus, like we're we're still that's a 30-year relation. That's a more more more than 30 years. Because it actually started prior to us starting the business.
00:20:51
Speaker
And and that's like when you look at the 30 years, that that relationship, amongst others, but um the length of that and the strength of that relationship is kind of one of the best parts of being involved in the business, which is, you know,
00:21:03
Speaker
Yeah, because Joe White would be another early That was early too, on really early. yeah yeah Yeah, that was early, but it kind of it did come along later. Yeah. Around 2004, I think. Yeah, would would have been. would have been But it's always been, up until today anyway, it's always been a family business.
00:21:22
Speaker
ah the The family have been really, um really involved in, and particularly in the early days then but where where there was just my wife and and met them myself,
00:21:32
Speaker
and then Dale came along. and so and then But Phil, ah as ah as we said earlier, he actually, before we even got the business off the ground, he was there at the meeting with the DCL one.
00:21:47
Speaker
So he's always been involved, although he worked elsewhere, He's had just as much as he... I didn't get paid. That was a hard day when we had to start paying him. I'll tell you. And in terms of the roles, I remember the first time met you, you'd been doing trial batches for an early Bentani trade day. I came to, you like you would like...
00:22:09
Speaker
and I guess showcasing some of the products. has it been a case of sort of in the early days, it was like you do what needs to be be done and now you have sort of defined roles in the business or how has it Because you are, I mean, the two of you, Dale and Phil, are co-CEOs.
00:22:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It would be an interesting division still potentially. But ah the only way to, and well, the way I describe that is to say that when, when it was, when it was just us and the business was smaller, everybody does a bit of everything, knows what's going on and just, you just do what needs to be done. So it could be like we all unloaded containers together or you need to do a price for a customer or whatever. and We could all do it.
00:22:46
Speaker
um As time's gone on, we've probably sort of, it's evolved into things Dale looks after, things I look after. um But we do just pretty much crossover, try to keep as much crossover as possible. I don't know what Pete did for Coalab.
00:23:03
Speaker
I did a lot, actually. I'm still trying to figure that out. But what happened was ah when COVID struck, ah the first thing they did, these pair, the first thing they did was send Marg and I home.
00:23:19
Speaker
We were worried about them. were worried about us. It's an opportunity. They knew they couldn't manage without us. So we'd better send them home, look after them, cuddle them up and look after them. It's like siloing the team, isn't it? It was risk.
00:23:35
Speaker
But the the further the longer we were at home, the less we had to do with the business. Because if you weren't here daily to see the daily run of the business, it it was it became difficult.
00:23:48
Speaker
ah So ah I don't have a lot to do with it now. It's mainly just i think every second day I get a readout of figures and I study them pretty hard.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. So I keep an eye on them through a piece of paper, A4 sheet of paper with a lot of figures on it. We just send in the NASDAQ.
00:24:13
Speaker
Just a random number generator on the internet. it is It is, I'm pretty sure. And what's the size and scope of the business now? It's obviously stepped up considerably in the last 15 years and we can just see the names and brands behind you. What is the scope of the business now in terms of numbers and reach and partners you're working with?
00:24:35
Speaker
We sit about 30 employees at the moment. We have warehouses in Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, obviously, and employee in New Zealand.
00:24:46
Speaker
couple of warehouses. i two Two warehouses in New Zealand. It's like it's grown to the point where um we do have defined roles and we do have people specialising in areas, which is quite nice. And it means that you can really know hire some very, very talented people, which we've been able to do, and that's um that's been a massive boon for us.
00:25:13
Speaker
But the 30 employees, to think that we've got here, it's ah it's you know it's interesting and it's kind of, we never probably thought we'd hit this point, um but it's great. and it's But as we always say, we're just a complete reflection of where the industry's at.
00:25:32
Speaker
so our our size and scale is just an absolute mirror of of where the craft beer industries are. Has that surprised you a lot? um You know, supplying homebrewers in the early days and the fact that most of your customers would be professional brewers or distillers now, or you hoped it would go that way?
00:25:51
Speaker
I don't know really. How much is the homebrew business No, homebrew is still strong. But it is I think we'd always we always knew that what was coming because you keep a close eye on what was happening in the US and you could see the ah craft beer wave that was breaking across that country.
00:26:07
Speaker
So we always had a little bit of forewarning of what the potential was here. So i think we always had a little bit of confidence that there was you know still more to come in this industry and more more growth and more excitement.
00:26:22
Speaker
Yeah. And still case. And know you you start off with yeast, obviously now there's hops and malt and nu guess other elements of business as well. out What's the sort of split there? is it you know Is yeast still the biggest side of the business or has hops become a... No, malt's the biggest side, but yeast and hops are still strong.
00:26:41
Speaker
hops has been a bit of a fun, like hops is just a, an incredible product. It's a, it's all over the shop all the time, whether it's brewer demand or seasonal variation or variety changes. but um,
00:26:53
Speaker
So the hops have kind of gone up and down at the moment. Lagers are popular, so there's less hops going into beer. But I think they're still the most exciting product that people sort of get passionate about. It's the easiest one, think, to lure new drinkers in because it's most obvious character to pick up or describe in a beer, I think. Yeah.
00:27:12
Speaker
So it's pretty it's it's a pretty even split. um we We definitely do more malt. But, I mean, it's other things too, like fruit and process aids. Like all of those are... they don't get much um space on the banner, but um but some of those things are pretty... um Yeah, fruit definitely had a moment in the sun when fruited sows were popular and grapefruit IPAs. That caught us a little bit by surprise, I guess. but And now you're the terpenes, the abstract. Is that that i going well? Yeah, it is. I mean, it's some it's been the most probably the most trialed new product we've
00:27:45
Speaker
ever bought in or, you know, put on the shelf, but, um, it's still growing. Like it's, you know, they're, they're highly concentrated. You don't use a lot of them, but they're, they're pretty interesting. There's, we've got a new one on there. So we've got a new one coming out soon, which is like a mood.
00:27:59
Speaker
That's like food, like the functional, functional beverages, like, ah okay um, mood enhancer. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. yeah It's interesting. i think you I think brewers have had to get used to using them as well because if you use them too much, it's too dominant or like even with some of the liquid products as well, it can get a bit plasticky, I'd sort of say. But yeah some of the most fascinating beers I've had over the last year or two, but when when people have used some of those certain terpenes really well yeah to add something, you know whether it's like a sort of weedy type, you know yeah characters are top note on an otherwise fruity IPA or whatever. It's been pretty...
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's been pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean, the guys that started that business came out of cannabis oil extraction and like the they're kind of like, oh, I won't say what was going to say, but they're really good fellas, but they've got such expertise in in that like in the chemistry side of things and the cannabis industry is huge over there. So they've been able to perfect their art and it's pretty cool what they're what they're putting in bottles.
00:28:57
Speaker
So that's fun. I mean, that's that's what we like is products that are that are interesting. I do agree with you. Like, restraint is the key with the mind of the time because, Jesus, some of them have blown your head off. Yeah, for sure. And is that what keeps you excited? Like, the fact that you do get access to new products and sort of building those newer relationships as well as the old ones? I would say, Will, one of the greatest things, I think, has helped Bintani in general from day one is we it was it was my first thing we had to do was to so pay our supplier we never ever ah held back on paying our suppliers and with that word gets around
00:29:43
Speaker
They talk to another manufacturer, ah particularly overseas, whereas and you get you you build up good reputation as being a good payer. And that's why a lot of new products have come to us more so than us follow following up chasing them.
00:30:01
Speaker
So I think that... Is this true? or Is it's its that his belief? it just He's no idea what you guys are going to do. No, it actually is true. But I think there's a subtle message there too, Pete, that um you know it's good to pay your suppliers. We'll get to that. yeah Yeah, when we talk about radio. yeah Advertising.
00:30:20
Speaker
But no, I think that the that has been an important part also of the business. is looking after the supplier as well as he will look after you then so when times were tough as far as supply like when hops were hard to get we could always get hops you know ah they may be expensive but we could get the hop so all those sort of things they go towards
00:30:52
Speaker
running a good business. and maintaining likeships Getting back to your question, but the new products are definitely the the thing that keep everyone interested. And the the innovation in flavour is, that's the key. like do I mean, that's why everyone sort of fell in love with craft beer was that flavour development and just people's minds got opened up to what you could be.
00:31:16
Speaker
And that's not stopping. So that's that's what we're still following. Yeah. Love to come back and like talk about the wider industry. in a bit Before we get to that, any sort of standout moments or highlights you know from the 30 years to date that have sort of been personal you know highlight moments for you or really defined Bintani as a business?
00:31:37
Speaker
How many times is that has Seamus seen in Nashville paid? I think I'll just keep those to myself. ah I think there has been some highlights and um majority of them have been around what we've done ourselves, like as far as building the business.
00:31:58
Speaker
I think they the they're the biggest highlights. But there's been some funny things happen too as far as, you know, like...
00:32:09
Speaker
Some brewers have different ideas of how how things should work or shouldn't work. And so there's a lot of stories you could tell, but maybe not today. Maybe over a beer one day, eh? Fair enough.
00:32:24
Speaker
The highlights, I reckon, um I mean, the business has been great. The industry has been just phenomenal to watch it grow and the people that we work with and seeing um how much passion they put into making beer and pouring beers for people. It's just...
00:32:38
Speaker
good to work with people like that but kind of outside of the business for us i reckon one of the best things was in 2015 we were um sort of sitting around and We kind of looked at our calendars a week out and and saw that we had a gap.
00:32:51
Speaker
um And because we've always loved the country music. oh yes Willie has a 4th of July picnic, Willie Nelson each year. And about a week out, we thought, oh, hang on, we can probably we could probably get over there. and We got on the Qantas website, we could get a cheap flight. And um the three of us headed over to Austin for a week. And like that was like that was so good.
00:33:11
Speaker
this is what This is why you're in in your own business is because you can just over and watch music for a week so that was that's probably it's a major highlight and it's not really business related but it's yeah but that was that was that was uh unbelievable to uh to get to that concert and uh and then and not having to book holiday just you know yeah that's all that i see in a week's time and then we spent it we we have spent uh up until covert anyway And we spent you know quite a few trips into Nashville ah for the music.
00:33:48
Speaker
and so You almost bought a house there, isn't that right? Yeah, yeah well we we looked at it. It got kiboshed. That's still a sore point. It is sore point. what What was the was the the selling point?
00:33:59
Speaker
wait was a three-bedroom apartment. Lee said it had full-size painting of a guitar or something in there. In the lounge room. Oh, it looked magnificent. Oh, good. It was above Red's Barbershop, one street off the, well, two blocks off Broadway, and it was, what, 210,000 US?
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah. No, no, yeah, it was something like that anyway. It was bugger all. But it was when when the housing was at its lowest in the in in the US, s you know? Yeah. It would a million and a half now, I reckon. Oh, it would be. Yeah, yeah. Who put the kibosh on there?
00:34:31
Speaker
Mainly our wives. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. And what about so looking ahead, yeah future future plans, or either sort of imminent stuff for Bintani or or even 10, 20, 30 years down the line? Well, might as well leave. um ah I think at the moment, looking forward is...
00:34:54
Speaker
probably more challenging than it's ever been because but this point in the in the industry is not one we've come up against before with the challenges in beer volumes, costs, profit margins and VAs and all the other associated nonsense that's going on.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, so it's it's difficult to predict where it'll go at the moment. There's not a great deal of um you know, crystal balling going on that's got any accuracy, I don't think. But probably the the one thing you can be really sure of is that people's tastes won't go back to what they were before. So I think whatever shape it takes in the next few years, we're still going to see better beer in Australia and continued innovation in flavour. Like that's that's probably the thing that keeps everyone going is that, you know,
00:35:48
Speaker
the when you walk into a pub now and you get you get bolter xpa or you find a wolf of the willows or hargraves hill it's it's just know it's it's amazing that we're at that point where you expect that now um where it wasn't that long ago that it was a real anomaly yeah but now it's the norm and i don't think that'll go away i mean our strength is in kind of working with people that create products and we've got um you know ah a warehouse full of different ingredients that suit their needs. So we've just got to keep um keep in touch with where beverage is going.
00:36:23
Speaker
And, you know, the craft beer... It's all terpenes. Yeah, the craft beer growth was never going to be in perpetuity. It was always going to come off and it's stabilising now and people ah everyone's working hard to try and try and stabilize their business with a new and you sort of growth or non-growth environment. um but But you can see it every day in bars and it what you read in the paper that people are innovating and consumers are drinking different beverages and
00:36:59
Speaker
um our customer base a portion will go ah um by the wayside and then a portion of them will innovate and move with the new trends and you know our job is to sort of make sure we've got the products that that suit them and we've like our team everybody's really good at talking to people who are creating products so um i guess that's where we'll head the it's fragmented and things will diversify even further hard solo kind of you know took over the world for a while and now there's you can see niches developing and um it's it's just interesting to watch so and i don't think anyone's got a
00:37:36
Speaker
because we're all kind of maybe a little older, um everyone's guessing what the 20 year olds and in 10 years time, the 30 year olds, what they'll be sort of spending their dollars on and what they'll be consuming, any alcohol, no alcohol. like So um we've got to kind of keep aware of that.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah, and for sure. Now, we'd love to come back and talk more about the wider industry and but we'll take a short break now and come back after that. Very good.
00:38:04
Speaker
Hey brewers, how much time do you spend thinking about flooring? If the answer is even a moment, it's too much. Solve your flooring issues for good with a hard-wearing, hygienic and safe epoxy floor coating from Roxette.
00:38:16
Speaker
For busy brewery environments, an epoxy coating is the perfect solution. Slip resistant surfaces help avoid injuries due to spills or liquid escapes. making the brew deck a safer place for staff, suppliers and visitors.
00:38:29
Speaker
Epoxy is also super long lasting and is renowned for its durability and resistance to heavy foot traffic, impacts and chemical spills. With proper installation and maintenance, epoxy flooring can last for many years, reducing the need for frequent replacements and associated costs, which often results in valuable downtime.
00:38:48
Speaker
It can also provide great aesthetic appeal as you can add colours to match your unique branding or blend different blocks of colour to suit your brewery theme and vibe. Importantly, epoxy floors are easy to keep clean.
00:39:02
Speaker
It's non-porous and the seamless smooth surface doesn't harbour bacteria, the enemy of brewing great beer. A well-installed epoxy floor makes end-of-day cleaning a breeze, saving time and money in the process.
00:39:16
Speaker
Your brewery floor shouldn't be causing you headaches when you want to focus on making your amazing beer. Talk to the team at Roxette about an epoxy solution. Visit roxette.com.au.
00:39:28
Speaker
That's R-O-X-S-E-T dot com dot A-U today.
00:39:38
Speaker
Welcome back. um One thing I'd love to talk about, you've always been great supporters of industry events. ah Good Beer Week, when it was in its heyday, you yeah the two of you were co-founders, Dale and Phil. You still call yourselves that, I think. I'd say instigators. It was those two that raised, that you you originally raised the idea of doing some sort of event with Barney and Mirror, didn't you, at Beer Deluxe? We wanted a calendar around the Abers. Yeah.
00:40:04
Speaker
yeah And geez, it became something, didn't it? It really it really was. Is it on record where the name came from? Good Beer Week? Are going to claim it? or
00:40:16
Speaker
I should. You wouldn't let me. because you two were chatting were chatting inside Beardlocks. I was in the beer garden, and I think either Mero or Barney came out, because I'd just launched Crafty Pint, I think. yeah And they were like, oh, we're having a chat with these guys inside about this.
00:40:30
Speaker
to do an event and can you help support it and get the word out? And then I reckon like three months later we had about 50 odd events and everything. And then you and Kate Patterson went all hyperactive on that. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. It did go to be nuts. But it's not just been that. I mean, you've been a supporter of every, you know, major, whether it's a, you know conference, awards, a whole bunch of other stuff, you know, so you see your name on that other podcasts, know, all that could like. Yeah. The radio show.
00:40:57
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah radio uh there's no money though yeah um mean you you got to make sure people know about your brand so there's a marketing um element to it but um i think that falls quite secondary to actually just trying to grow the industry. Good Beer Week was about getting more people to know about flavoursome beers.
00:41:21
Speaker
So there was a real, that needed to happen. The more bars that were pushing these beers, the more drinkers were aware of them. And so that was, well I think the success of that was a complete indication of the need for it. It just blew up.
00:41:36
Speaker
yeah no No one was expecting it to go quite as it did. It would only play catch-up for the first few years. yeah yeah um And then in terms of the industry thing, I think if you're – you've got a – you do have a responsibility to – um to you know carry your share of the load in in supporting an industry. And ah this one's built on um a lot of small businesses, a lot of people that are not just working for a paycheck. so And it's there is that long term, people go into it with long term ambitions. They come out of a corporate career, they start a brewery, they're not they're not going back. so
00:42:14
Speaker
um And I think that's how we look at sort of supporting the industry is make sure it's as strong as possible within what we what we can do. And I think with the with the IBA, like we're really aware of how lucky we are to have um to have that organisation and to have Kylie. And um there's always alternative views on how well an organisation's doing or um what they should be sort of what cause they should be fighting. But when you look at the budget and what is done, um so we're we're so supportive of that.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. It's industry that often punches above its weight in terms of what it delivers for amount money sort of swirling swirling around in there. yeah um And is it something that you sort of set aside and go like this this is how much of our you know but business needs to be allocated to supporting other stuff? Or is it case by case basis going, you know, there's new awards come along, whatever, we should be part of this, you know we'll get involved in this level. Or is it you know it's it's almost like written into yeah the business DNA?
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely a budget, but there's also definitely the case by case sort of evaluation of what's coming up. And for the most part, they're really fun events, so they're hard to say no to.
00:43:29
Speaker
That's probably our biggest downfall is we like to attend most of them. Yeah, so brewing events are typically not boring, so they're they're easy to support. Yeah.
00:43:40
Speaker
But things like Beer Australia, I'm not sure where that campaign will get to, but um there's no monetary return or maybe in the long term if if it thrives, but we want us we'd like to see that become strong. So we put some money aside for that wasn't originally in the budget, but it's something we believe in. So um there is the case by case element.
00:44:01
Speaker
But philosophically, we, we want to see um people doing things for the industry supported. You can't support everybody and you can't, it's not like there's a, we don't have a blank check with things that there's a budget, but um but yeah, you've got to kind of want to do it.
00:44:16
Speaker
Well, and then talking fun events, I know when you've done the trade day that we mentioned and before, you always try to I guess incorporate some entertainment within that as well. i remember James the Cherry Bar being in Vitalongs, I guess, one of the first ones I came to and he you know he gave a really great sort of inspiring talk, even though he wasn't from the industry, yeah but but he had had, I guess, but a lot of sort cross-pollination of ideas and ethos that was relevant to the audience. And is that seems to be something that you, yes, technically it's a day of trade presentations or networking, but there's always bit of sort of entertainment involved as well.
00:44:49
Speaker
We'd like to do more of that. I mean, we've always sort of found that when you have a conversation with someone in in our industry, they're pretty switched on. um And we're not we're not just pumping out commodities. like it's it's there's a real um So when we do a trade day, we want to have make it interesting and have everybody actually intellectually engaged as well as... um as well as having a beer. So, yeah, we'd like to sort of keep doing that and do more of it.
00:45:18
Speaker
I think the first one we had a guy that we went to school with that had run 52 marathons in 52 weeks. That's right. I was thinking of him. Yeah, Tristan. And he gave us a speech on just how we managed to do that. And it was just really about, I don't know,
00:45:32
Speaker
setting goals and so that was... We haven't had a marathon runner back since. Well, everyone's doing it now. his's his His record's been surpassed. So, yeah, but, um yeah, we'll do more of that, I think.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think is at when they when they do ah an inspirational talk from that That person, from his point of view, what whatever he's doing, or it there's parts of it that will flow through to your business.
00:46:01
Speaker
And I think that's what really makes those things work, is that somebody always gets something out of whatever the talk is, although they may not be a ah road runner or whatever, but they do get some inspiration out of it.
00:46:16
Speaker
And have you had your invite from any running groups yet to go and give an inspirational talk about what you do yet, Pete, whether that's the the country music or the ingredients supply? i think in about five minutes time we'll do that.
00:46:28
Speaker
And in terms of tying in a couple of those things, like, ah you know, Good Beer Week was about promoting beer really hard. Do you think we're doing enough at the moment? You know, we've got these nerves around younger people or and I don't think we could do Good Beer Week again, necessarily. I don't know. Maybe it's time has passed a little bit. um But where do you think we can sort of promote that in a way?
00:46:52
Speaker
It's an interesting one, trying to reach that but younger generation that seemed to be actively ignoring alcohol. um which And socialising in a different way. Socialising in a completely different way. It's such a it's such a shift from all the generations that went before it, I don't think people have got their head wrapped around it yet. And the conversations about the future of beer festivals and all that sort of thing, it's, we haven't got the answer for that. I wish we did, but we'll keep trying to find it because i don't think um there's a better way to socialise than over a beer.
00:47:31
Speaker
That's the message that, that's the angle I think that would be great to see more of is just that beer is a, um it ah is a versatile, socially responsible yeah um drink to that.
00:47:44
Speaker
But when our industry did get quite complicated and um and kind of boastful in a way like, you know, the beer styles became. ah tt Yeah. Yeah. And so it's maybe there's a bit of a reset where um where the new messaging's kind of going to emerge. But people like having a having a beer and it is a great it's a great product. It doesn't survive in Belgium and in Europe like it has and be sort of revered and actually respected like it is over there without
00:48:17
Speaker
there being substance to the product. so We've had a good chat with a couple of yeah really great publicans over the last few months on the podcast as well. well And think putting that focus on how great and how how crucial pubs are you know within society and within communities as well and how how tap rooms and and brewery venues are becoming that thing as well.
00:48:37
Speaker
you know, where and anyone's welcome and generally there's you it' it is a ah sort of more communal vibe. I think getting that message, the beer, beer is this a social lubricant, but also these venues serving beer are often great places for everyone to come together. Yeah. yeah Well, there was The Economist article a couple of weeks ago came out saying that the the birth rate would be a lot lower if it wasn't for um for beer and there'd be a lot less innovation and and that's The Economist, so it's worth checking that out. Yeah.
00:49:08
Speaker
yeah there There aren't actually that many. When you look around the community, there aren't too many spaces where you can get together with people and and that are all inclusive yeah and all welcoming and tap rooms and pubs. They're one of the few remaining, you know, really crucial community spots.
00:49:26
Speaker
Or go to on your own as well and meet someone and all that kind stuff. I remember when I was up at Noosa Hinterland Brewing couple of months ago with my folks and were chatting John and Cara, the founders there, and we were talking about that sort of side of things. There's one older regular that comes in, he often sits over there and he'll just maybe come and have a beer, read the paper, and then he'll just fall asleep in the chair. Everyone goes, oh, there's whatever his name is. And it's fine. We're happy for him to come in and this to be his lounge room from his lounge room whatever because he's become part of the fabric of the place. I guess return to something we touched upon briefly earlier, you're one of the industry's biggest suppliers. So at a time like the last few years where there has been a huge number of
00:50:12
Speaker
voluntary administrations, there's been some liquidations, there's been sales, there's just been less money going around the the economy and certainly within beer. um we you know We spoke probably almost two years ago, Phil, about you know the impact on suppliers of this.
00:50:26
Speaker
and How have you sort of navigated that as a business? and know have Are things still as tough as they were? you know yeah i don't think you navigate it, you weather it but yeah it. We've got two two main approaches. One is to um is to reduce the exposure to, you know, ah accounts payable for breweries or our accounts receivable.
00:50:54
Speaker
But the second is to make sure that we're not sort of having a hard and fast rule. It means we don't work with the business because You can't generate revenue if you can't brew beer. so um So there's a lot of case-by-case work. It's taken heaps more resource on our end to work through orders that come in where accounts are long.
00:51:17
Speaker
um But pretty much the whole industry understands it. And I think there's been a real kind of understanding and therefore a real impact where people the debt has come down.
00:51:29
Speaker
So whereas maybe there was a whole lot of people at 60 days, now most people are really trying not to have anything overdue. And it's helping. It's a gradual process. Has it slowed you in terms of like, you know, looking to either expand or to bring in new products or whatever? We need to put this on on on a hold or is it just more a case of...
00:51:48
Speaker
is it's its own thing that needs to be fixed. Because I guess ultimately you talked about relationships in a different sense earlier. I guess it's relationships, isn't it? It's going, we want this business to survive and still work with us down the line. It's almost like trying to thread the needle, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. and and But it's it's not, it hasn't stopped us with bringing new products in or any on that side of things. It is its own thing. But um the awareness in the broader industry of the challenges because every piece in the chain is seeing exactly the same challenge. Like we're not on our own. You put it back here early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But everyone's sort of battling with this at different points along the chain. So it's...
00:52:29
Speaker
It's a whole industry problem. yeah it's It's hard if you don't have contact with your customer, if you don't know who they are or what they're like or what their story is and there's no communication, it's really hard. But that would be like 1%.
00:52:42
Speaker
Like for us, we... you know We know what their business is like and we know what they're going through we know what they and um and we just work with them through it. but it's yeah You probably see the fluctuating orders from year to year. and yeah do You probably keep an eye on that one. yeah that one There's a lot more smaller orders now, people ordering you know smaller things.
00:53:03
Speaker
Just in time, all the time. Yeah, it's harder. But the other thing, just what you were speaking about there few seconds ago was it hasn't stopped bringing in new products because if you actually stop ah bringing in new products, you're really putting a damper on your business.
00:53:25
Speaker
So you've got to keep... Well, wouldn't say reinventing yourself, but they reinvent beers all the time. So you've got to have these new products there.
00:53:36
Speaker
So if if you stop bringing those in, well, yeah you you there's a hole in the market then that that needs fulfilling because brewers want to keep experimenting and bringing in a developing new beers.
00:53:52
Speaker
So I think yeah you've got to you've got to keep up with bringing in new product irrespective of how hard or tough times are because hopefully one of them will stick.
00:54:04
Speaker
um I guess we're a few years in now to this you know downturn. um i know you're saying it's hard to do any sort of crystal ball gazing on a wider scale like I guess how the interest is to turn out.
00:54:17
Speaker
Do you ever feel what the ongoing impact of you know what's happened could be?
00:54:24
Speaker
think we've got a few more years of tough trading. A lot of the VAs have resulted in deed of company arrangements where the the ah the business keeps going pretty much as it was just with a less excise debt and less supply debt.
00:54:44
Speaker
But that doesn't necessarily fix underlying problems. So there'll be less breweries, you'd think. So so that's going to take a while to work through, probably couple of years.
00:54:54
Speaker
Is it about sort of right sizing things? Because there was just so much growth in the lead up to COVID that probably... But it's got tougher for the breweries too. like its There was a lot of them producing beer, but then you know there's all these structural factors that are impacting and...
00:55:11
Speaker
making it really hard to have run a profitable brewery so you know you contain a deposit scheme we all know about the excise regime that's a barrier to growth for for breweries and um and our distilling customers as well um and then you've got things like you know asahi um and lion guys doing you know consolidating and buying craft brands and um that's had a big impact on available distribution so yeah yeah for us i think one of the changes we're seeing is on a an ingredient side where people are looking to trim costs wherever they can um and one of the starkest sort of indicators for us is the the move from imported malts to domestic products and which makes complete sense but
00:56:03
Speaker
The sort of negative downside of that is there's going to be a bit of ah an homogenisation of the beers that are available as people reduce the breadth of their ingredient palate. So that that what that's one that I don't love seeing happen, but I completely understand it. But I think... um I'd like to see us get to the other side of things where people really start to open up that um ingredient list again, because that's what to me is one of the biggest advertisements for craft beer is that that variation and that.
00:56:34
Speaker
Yeah. I think everyone's happy to innovate and and introduce new sustainability programs and stuff like that until maybe the bottom line gets a yeah little bit more bottomed out, so to speak. And it's like, oh, you know what?
00:56:46
Speaker
That's maybe something that can wait for the but glory days to return. And the the market has to reward the product as well. like the The market has to demand and the niche product. And this you know there's definitely been a movement towards lagers and straight flow car, simpler beers. It is harder for the smaller breweries to compete in that yeah area though because the big breweries do them so well. yeah But it won't last. you It won't go forever that way because people kind of always, there's this wave of movement yeah between styles and trends. so Reflecting on, I guess, some of the challenges that still around now, you know what are the the main things you think needs change, whether it's systemic or an industry sort the level ah get to improve the improve the lot for everybody?
00:57:28
Speaker
Container deposit scheme for me is a disaster. Particularly for breweries because of the number of- Yeah, the cost imposition and just the just the nonsensical duplication of cost administration structures across states it's just a it's just a uh hidden tax on on the beer drinker and it's ridiculous i don't know how in a modern economy such poor planning decisions can be made in in implementing what might be a good idea to, I mean everyone wants to reduce yeah waste but um yeah this is a ridiculous way to do it.
00:58:05
Speaker
There are some people benefiting from it though. There are exactly. I guess it's one of those things that really um it's a big imposition on the smaller more innovative producers. It's almost like trying to tamp down innovation and creativity isn't it?
00:58:18
Speaker
yeah yeah Some of the labelling things are pretty bad too, to the nutrition panel. they just you know It's just over over the compliance costs just become crazy. So that does that hurts smaller businesses and innovation.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah The taxation is a big issue and that's that's a problem. big, broad discussion across a lot of industries. But that's one that I think and until that's resolved and made fairer, I think we're going to have ongoing problems because just sticking band-aids on top of a ah broken system won't fix it.
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, that they those sort of discussions, not all the Containing Deposit Scheme, but that one's been around longer than I've been doing what I've been doing at Crafty Pine. And no one seems to have taken it by the scruff of the neck and gone, okay, this is actually what needs to be done, just simplify it and make it yeah fair fair. Yeah, because the political will's kind of missing or the...
00:59:22
Speaker
that That will follows um um votes. So yeah it's it's a tough one for them to to fix, but ah it's going to hurt in the long term because we'll just lose that, you know,
00:59:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's making it harder and harder for small businesses to innovate and compete. um There's already a lot of advantages for for scale and size. So, yeah, hopefully that can there can be some, you know, yeah.
00:59:47
Speaker
There seems to be a bit of political well-leading, you know, or at least coverage for it in leading up to the last election. I guess the solutions that were offered weren't necessarily ones people wanted, but I guess... It's a case of maintaining momentum in that area, I guess.
01:00:01
Speaker
yeah and I think that's the that's the the the value of Kylie and the IBA and what they're doing. like I think then but a lot of that momentum came directly from Kylie. So the the value there is enormous.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yeah, you saw a lot of phrasing similar phrasing across news articles and TV coverings. like That's been ah very carefully you know and pushed message. Message, yeah.
01:00:26
Speaker
Well, we can't let you guys leave without talking about music a little bit. I don't know who wants to start off. Pete, do you do you want to put in a little bit of an ad for your radio station? Yes. I think everyone should have www.classiccountry.au on their computer.
01:00:45
Speaker
I just bookmarked it. and And then listen in particularly on a Sunday night from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. ah where I do your presentation of of of ah ahvia three hours of Pete's country.
01:01:01
Speaker
So, um But other than that, ah the station is us basically a streaming station, so it runs 24 hours a day with the country music that that that I've picked out and and put on it. sort of a playlist, you would you'd probably call it. Is it something you can do ads on?
01:01:23
Speaker
It is something you can do ads on. Let's talk about that, Neil and Dale. um So, yeah. yeah um the advertising can can take a big part of it, that's for sure.
01:01:40
Speaker
Are your son's listeners? do you listen to Pete's country every week? I never miss a minute. which yeah um i mean For listeners who don't know, where where does the love of country come from? other It comes from um my my dad. he He was a great country music follower, um where he, and he liked American country music and Canadian country music, and like that was basically now, you know, like getting on towards 100 years ago.
01:02:17
Speaker
yeah So I really got no idea where his love came for country music, um apart from being, we were bred and born in the country, but I don't know where he's... And then, course, that was passed down to to the family, which we, being one of them, it it stuck with me.
01:02:42
Speaker
And, course, then it's been passed on to the rest of the family. the boys as well now. was going to say, so if if you were taken along as a prop for that first meeting, how how young were you when you were taken on to your first gigs to sort of give Pete a bit of, you know, cred?
01:02:56
Speaker
Slim Dusty. Slim Dusty was probably the first ones the kids went to and they were basically babies. We had to carry them in the arms at that and that That was at the Melbourne Connolly. That's because you were too tired to pay your ticket. I was 12. You were on a sharp day on the minute. Just put this dummy in and be quiet.
01:03:19
Speaker
Darling middle boy. But, uh, but No, but it yeah, it's been part of the family for for for three generations that I know of. you reckon it's helped having that bond outside of the business to you know to help ah definitely the family business run as it has? yeah Yeah, and within the business too, because if you don't listen to it here, you're not going to last long.
01:03:41
Speaker
no I've heard some complaints. for but Let me know. You're bigger office space now. You can sort of segment it a little bit, you know. It's all pipe through.
01:03:54
Speaker
But, yeah, country music is is is is really part of, it's a very big part of my life and it always has been. But it goes well with beer too. Oh, yeah. Because there's a lot of beer, there's of drinking songs in country music. Oh, there's a lot of them. Great taste. It crosses all areas of life.
01:04:11
Speaker
Yeah. So no, it's very good. And Pete's country is is is the political is gaining momentum every week. we get I get new listeners that fill in a yeah questionnaire thing on the on the thing to become a subscriber. And and then, yeah, so i I'm happy with it.
01:04:32
Speaker
ah There's still a long way to go. I want to do live broadcasting too, but that's probably six months down the track. There go never never Never been busy. This is why wasn't doing it. He couldn't tell what he was doing in the business. He was working out his future career as a country music DJ.
01:04:50
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it was good. It's good, though. It's well appreciated in the whole industry. You go to any country gig in Melbourne, it's like a... an industry reunion. It is, isn't it? It's a bit of a sales rep and brewers meeting happening.
01:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And we also like beer. like All our country people like beer, so we're still looking after the industry. That's great.
01:05:14
Speaker
Great. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you much. It's a pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Cheers.
01:05:24
Speaker
When it comes to choosing the right insurance for your brewery, the best decision you'll make is to talk to the team at Midland Insurance. Midland are the experts in insuring Australian breweries and have developed an insurance program tailored specifically to the brewing industry.
01:05:39
Speaker
Midland covers stock losses resulting from spoilage, leakage or contamination. They provide cover for food service, bar service, tastings and brewery tours. Midland has a dedicated claims department to manage any claims and they also offer highly competitive rates for all brewery customers.
01:05:57
Speaker
So if you're looking for a new insurance policy tailored to meet your needs, talk to Midland Insurance today. visit midlandinsurance.com.au or give Damien a call on 1300 306 571.
01:06:10
Speaker
three zero c five
01:06:16
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:06:30
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:06:45
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.
01:07:05
Speaker
you