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Philter's Award-Winning Potion
2 Playsin 6 hours
"In this game, you have to all believe in what you're trying to achieve.”
While no strangers to awards success, it’s fair to say the team at Philter enjoyed a night to remember at the 2025 Australian International Beer Awards, taking home four major trophies.
After a brief yet raucous chat with them on the night, we reconvened two weeks later for a more relaxed and wide-ranging catch-up with co-founders Mick Neil and Stef Constantoulas – mates who met when they moved in to the same Marrickville street a few years before launching their brewing company.
As well as reflecting on the impact of their recent success, they take us back to their pre-Philter days in the worlds of surfing gear and big beer, their first meetings with Sam Füss – the brewer behind many of their killer recipes we spoke to at her new home in Bali last year, the values driving the brand, the ongoing evolution of their multi-faceted venue, and their plans for the future.
The conversation touches upon many wider issues facing the beer and hospitality worlds too, from price pressures and market access to the need to keep fighting to bring consumers into the world of local, indie beer.
This week’s show features the debut of another mini-series supported by Mogwai Labs. Breaking Down Beer Styles kicks off with a look at dry Irish stouts for which Mogwai founder Josh Allen joined by Jared Palu and Lincoln Gibbs from Felons.
In the intro, Will and James reflect on Gage Roads turning 20 this week, as well as on the closure after 17 years of Seven Sheds in Tasmania. Look out for an upcoming episode featuring that brewery’s founders: beer writer Willie Simpson and partner Catherine Stark.
In the week they celebrate the launch of their brewery, Will also puts Barbarian Brewing Co in Melbourne’s west forward as a potential Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month; read about them via the link below.
Start of segments:
- 13:47 – Philter Part 1
- 40:00 – Breaking Down Beer Styles with Mogwai Labs
- 51:12 – Philter Part 2
Relevant links:
- Australian International Beer Awards 2025
- Philter Brewing
- Building A Brewery In Bali ft Sam Füss
- Gage Roads at 20
- Mogwai Labs
- Barbarian Brewing Co
- Nominate a Brewery of the Month
- Nominate a Good Beer Citizen
- Midlands Insurance
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. have you been, Will? I have been great. And it was a pleasure, James, to read a rare article written by yourself on the Crafty Pint this week.
00:00:16
Speaker
ah don't think it's been that rare. I think i think around about the time of Pint of Origin, I think I had nine articles in a row written by me on the website whilst running one of the country's biggest beer festivals. Admittedly, before that, I reckon it'd been quite some time before my name had had graced an article, um something I hope to remedy now that Pint of Origin and is mostly out of the way for the time being.
Gage Roads Brewing History
00:00:37
Speaker
um Yeah, it was it was a sort of um Gave Rhodes turned 20 at the weekend. um And yeah, I think first we got aware of it, Guy sent something through about the new bearded release, Huey, the...
00:00:50
Speaker
clear glass bottle i'm like oh it'd be good to have a chat with those guys that's a pretty um we've done that this story a few times in the past but pretty unique tale and i think for a lot of people that came to sort of craft beer even in the last 10 12 years or whatever you sort of look at it and go oh but you know gage rose they were tied with woolworths for a while they put out hundreds of thousands of cases of you know not craft beer whilst in on in a much smaller way sort of doing some craftier beers, had no venue for a while, um then ah obviously listed on the Stock Exchange for a while. like There's a lot of things there that other no other sort of craft brewery has really done as part of their journey. But at the same time, you know they've now grown to the to be the fourth largest brewing company in Australia. They have pouring rights at Perth Stadium and other places. They have these you know
00:01:33
Speaker
major partnerships. um They've had some trophy major trophy winning beers over the years and you know are doing their bit to I guess, get people drinking non-mainstream beer as well.
00:01:44
Speaker
um So I was keen have a chat with Aaron Heary and John Hodemaker, two their, well, John and his brother Bill were two of the founders and Aaron came in from from day one as the but brewer there um just to try and elicit some stuff, you know, aside from the main the main talking points from over the years. So, you know, Aaron was talking about the days that he'd go at 5am, him and Bill would take their boat across to Rottnest Island and go diving for crayfish before they started brewing. And think it's kind of nice to hear that, have have that sort of more... and human side to things when for years, you know, we'd talked to people at Gage Rose, but essentially everything was coming out through ASX announcements or whatever. And so just to try and now that they're delisted, is trying to elicit a bit more of the the human side of the business.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, was fascinating. Right. I definitely, I mean, my entry into Craft Beer was around that time when they were moving away from Woolworths and when they bought those shares back. So it was, it is, I know nothing about from before then until reading that article. So it was interesting to learn all that too.
00:02:41
Speaker
Well, I thought the most interesting thing actually was from John himself. He goes, you have to realise that you know when we started, yes, there were, you know, Ferrell would have started it by then. There would have been nail in WA plus, you know, bootleg down in the southwest. You know, Holgate were in the early days or what have you.
00:02:55
Speaker
But they, and you know, Bill and one of the other founders, they've been working on a very small scale set up at Southern Anchor. But they were looking at little creatures and going, well, this is what, you know, breweries is what we're looking at. and they were looking at, you know, New Belgium and and bigger breweries in the States.
00:03:10
Speaker
um And they were kind of, that's what we want to be and not sort of thinking that potentially 100, 200, 400, 500, 600 smaller breweries were going to come along. And, you know, they they opened, you know, with with a large brewery, 35 heck, not huge these days, but certainly would have been way bigger than almost anyone getting into beer in the time, you know, that that sort of period or just afterwards. So, yeah, it was kind of like, oh, you know, if you if you put your head in that mindset 21, 22 years ago,
00:03:36
Speaker
it would have been pretty different. you know and that's And I guess you know they saw opportunities to be able to grow in the way they did. um And then, yeah, it's it's just it has been a very unique tale in the way that you know the the choices they've made and and and where they are now and then still but still putting out a clear glass bottle, 3.8% lager as their 20th anniversary beer.
00:03:57
Speaker
um But I think, you know for them, they just see that as going, as being, how can we possibly make the step up from having got to the fourth biggest um Australian brewing company, and which I guess would have been Stone & Wood, you know, Stone & Wood's position prior to their sale.
00:04:10
Speaker
How do we then step up? Because Coopers is the only, is the next one in in your sights, and then you're looking way up to CB and Lyon. So, um yeah, absolutely. Yeah, really nice chat to try and elicit some of that more human stuff out of them. So it's good.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah.
Upcoming Episode Plans
00:04:25
Speaker
And speaking of birthdays, it must be about something in the middle of the year that it encourages breweries to start up because Hargraves Hill are turning 21, one of the very early Victorian craft breweries and that another one, Bridge Road, turning 20 as well. And Ben Spoke in Canberra too, turning 11.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yes, and if people are wondering why, you know, having done a story on Gage Road at 20, there's nothing on Bridge Road at 20, we've been chatting to Ben and trying to line up a time to speak to Ben and his wife Maria um for a podcast episode on their 20th anniversary.
00:04:54
Speaker
We tried to do it around the symposium, um but, you know, as you can imagine, the symposium and festival on wasn't really... the ideal time to get the two two of the organisers in the same place, but we're going to be joining them in Beechworth beachworth and a couple of weeks time for a chat. So we'll we'll have miss technically missed the actual date of the 20th anniversary, but yeah, you'll be able to hear from Ben and Maria, and I guess all the way back to when they first met in Austria. But I think, you know, did Ben go over to make wine originally and came back a brewer and here they are now. Yeah,
Closure of Seven Sheds Brewery
00:05:24
Speaker
great, great. And on a so much sadder note, Seven Sheds has announced that they're closing.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, um I remember when I was, we've got someone down in Tassie at the minute who's been sort of touring around ah the north of the state and Launceston, ah visiting a lot of breweries and venues for us for some travel pieces that are coming up soon. And when he sent the original list, i'm like, ah you know, you yeah don't have seven sheds on there. And I checked in with our mate, John.
00:05:46
Speaker
Burridge at Yakima Chief Hops, ah just saying, you know, i just want to do a bit of a sense check on which of these places we should visit, anything else we might have missed we'll but out while Benny's down there. And he did mention that he goes, ah, um yeah, Seven Sheds is sort of winding down. And they they put a message out last Friday just saying they're calling calling it quits. um and The brewery had been on the market, I think, for...
00:06:07
Speaker
For a few years. But yeah, I mean, for those that don't know Seven Sheds, they probably will know of of Willie Simpson, um who founded it with his partner, Catherine Stark. um He was the country's leading beer writer for a number of years. He had a regular column in the Sydney Morning Herald.
00:06:23
Speaker
ah for a long period of time, wrote a number of books and when I was first getting into it I'd yeah know get some of his books to to read through to learn where the breweries were and and a bit of a history of beer in Australia before he headed down there.
00:06:35
Speaker
um When they first started it there was an equal focus on mead as there was on beer and brewing and he's grown his own hops down there the whole time as well. ah The name Seven Sheds comes from the fact there are Seven Sheds down there and he's used done smoking and various other things down there as well.
00:06:50
Speaker
um And yeah, just a really fascinating guy who know who's been around the beer industry a long, long time. um You know, sort of not only written the articles, written the books, but, you know, just that sort treasure trove of information.
00:07:04
Speaker
don't know, it was a few years ago now, but I ended up going into Tassie when I was still writing stuff for the age to do a sort of travel piece that was sort of based around this Northwest tasting trail that Willie and Catherine had been instrumental and in and getting off the ground and spent a couple of days driving around the Northwest of Tasmania in his company. And it was just fascinating. it was like it felt just just absorbing as much as I possibly could, you know, and not just about the history of beer in Australia and and you know what Willie knew but also he took me to visit some real fascinating quirky places in Tasmania it reminds you know I guess we get so focused on beer because there's so much out there that we need to be covering but there were so many just amazing unique little producers of other stuff out there as well that we got to meet some real real characters yeah yeah he's a he's a talker like no one else as well I remember interviewing him and
00:07:55
Speaker
I think the I assume the article is about beer because I'm not sure why else I would have been interviewing him. But somehow we spent a very long time talking about cats and you yeah cats sort of domesticate people and, um you know, trick them into caring for them and that kind of thing. It was a very lovely conversation.
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, I have flicked William Catherine message. So touch wood, we'll having a chat with them on the podcast. soon. If not, just yeah wish the to you all the best and in your sort of retirement or whatever you might be doing next.
00:08:24
Speaker
um And yeah, thanks for all the beers over the years.
Filter Brewing Interview
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. And on to this week's guests. So, are Filter, Mick Neal and Steph Constantoulis. Yes. It was great to have them on. Probably no surprises to why we might have had them on at the moment because at the AIBAs, they walked away with four different trophies. We did talk to them briefly on the night. Well, you sort of yelled at each other briefly. In a very loud room, but we really wanted to get them on to talk about what that meant for them and also what's been going on at Filter recently. Obviously, Sam Fuss left the business a little while ago. he's still a shareholder and we've had her on the podcast as well. So it was great to chat to the two of them about what's been going on at Filter, what's been going on the inner west of Sydney and their tap room as well, which now has sort of three different elements to it.
00:09:13
Speaker
And yeah, it's really great conversation. Yeah, well, I think that we talked about their backgrounds prior to beer as well, how they actually met their neighbours. It sounds like this. Well, we won't get into the details of the story, but they obviously bonded as friends. And then the conversation around beer came a lot later.
00:09:30
Speaker
um but because the you know the backgrounds in marketing and in big beer and whatever the conversation actually goes I think sort deeper and broader than I was necessarily expecting. Some more sort of insightful stuff on, you know, the wider industry and and, you know, and brand building and all that kind of stuff as well.
00:09:44
Speaker
um And, you know, their thoughts yeah on on the inner West and what lies ahead. And as as seems to be a common thread in in our chat, the need for some sort of government support or major change to help the industry um to be competitive. um But yeah, really really, really good chat with those guys but in the front of the bar up there.
00:10:02
Speaker
the latest the the sports bar addition to their um venue with its hall of fame and hall of shame if it anyone it's not not been there yet and if you do watch this on youtube they were uh sort of i guess marketing minded enough to make sure the trophies were behind them yes at one stage i thought maybe because it was quite small when we' were talking on the screen originally i thought maybe they got mock-ups of the trophies that they were hanging off the decals of the beer of the like the taps um that that related to. And then I was like, oh, no, they've actually just put the put the trophies there in in between them. So, and yes, the marketing background, the branding background definitely came through.
00:10:36
Speaker
But yes, that's up after the break. um We've also got a ah start of a new segment this week with Mogwire Labs, and producers of liquid yeast based in on the south coast of ah New South Wales. So um Craig has a chat with Josh, the founder of Mogwai Labs, and also with Jared and Lincoln from Felons Brewing.
00:10:57
Speaker
Focus i specifically this week around dry Irish stouts, Guinness, and sort of, i guess, what's being brewed locally, how how to how to make them, the ah they a bit of history, of the style, what have you. So um we'll have a few of those coming up over the the coming weeks.
00:11:11
Speaker
um I guess aside from that, you know don't forget to get your nominations in for your favorite breweries for the Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month, craftypint.com slash
New Brewery Openings in Melbourne
00:11:21
Speaker
bluestone and also to nominate some good beer citizens in the Rallings, have you done a Rallings competition? So craftypint.com slash Rallings. um Before we get into it, I might i might throw out a brewery of the month on my own because last week I had the pleasure of calling into a new brewery in Melbourne, which is very rare at the moment. Pre-COVID, I felt like I was visiting a new Melbourne brewery every week but i popped into the barbarian brewing in uh kingsville in the inner west suburb just just past footscray it was a great they had the doors open for a little while and have been brewing their beer at watts river but the after some electrical issues they finally got the brew house
00:11:56
Speaker
up and running, electrical issues with the site, not with the brew house, just ah just to clarify that. But it was just great to call in and being a new brewery, they've found some locals that love them. Every 30 seconds, it felt like more couples were coming in and just saying hi to Pete and Zoe, the owners. It was a very good experience to to be back in that sort of sense that you know there's new things happening in the industry. It's not all about closures and mergers and brewery celebrating two decades and things like that yeah yeah there's something in between something more forward looking as well um yeah and you'll be we'll have a listing for barbarian with a full story and their beers and stuff on the site very soon as well and their brew house launch is this weekend so on saturday if you wanted to pop in i'm sure that would be stoked excellent nice stuff all right well um great so you so after the break we're back with mick and steph from filter before then will make sure you like subscribe and leave us a review cheers cheers
00:12:56
Speaker
When comes to choosing the right insurance for your brewery, the best decision you'll make is to talk to the team at Midland Insurance. Midland are the experts in insuring Australian breweries and have developed an insurance program tailored specifically to the brewing industry.
00:13:12
Speaker
Midland covers stock losses resulting from spoilage, leakage or contamination. They provide cover for food service, bar service, tastings and brewery tours. Midland has a dedicated claims department to manage any claims and they also offer highly competitive rates for all brewery customers.
00:13:30
Speaker
So if you're looking for a new insurance policy tailored to meet your needs, talk to Midland Insurance today. Visit midlandinsurance.com.au or give Damien a call on 1300 306 571. Mick and Steph, thanks so much for joining us
00:13:48
Speaker
mick and staff thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Thanks for having us. Thank you, guys. Now, we did speak to you immediately after winning those four trophies at the Abers, but couple weeks on, how's the feeling?
00:14:01
Speaker
Well, I listened back to that podcast and i think we were slightly excited. The excitement level is still there, though. It's still a bit of a picture moment, I think.
00:14:12
Speaker
Just the night went so quick, but, you know, we're still wrapped for the team and what they were able to achieve um on the night. It's still, you know, an extraordinary achievement from our point of view anyway for what the guys have been able to do.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, and look, that guys, it's it's it's an amazing feeling, right? Like for years and years we've been like, oh, it'd be great one day to win that award or win the win the best of the best award or whatever you want to call it, the best in show.
00:14:38
Speaker
But um that was really exciting and a shock. I mean, you saw our faces. We didn't really know what to say. It's kind of embarrassing getting up there for the fourth time sometimes, but You know, it's it's um it's been so good for the team.
00:14:52
Speaker
Like it's the exuberance and the motivation and just a positivity that's come back into the business around things like that. It's so good. It's just so hard not to recognize that.
00:15:04
Speaker
You're no strangers to awards. like You pretty much kick kicked off with a CBI, what was as it was back in the day with the XPA, but you've never had this level of you know yeah repeat visits to the stage and then the Champion Brewery as well. So that must have been pretty satisfying, especially I think in that mid-season,
00:15:21
Speaker
medium-sized category is probably the most competitive as well. um You know, we're sort looking, we're trying to wait, well, if they won Best Victorian, that means they were better than Hawkers, but they still didn't win medium. It's like that's probably the most competitive, um you know, brery brewery trophy as well to win.
00:15:37
Speaker
It wasn't the first time I've sat at the ah the table and and I'm pretty sure Guy does the same thing from Stomping Ground, just trying to count down back and go, did we get more than him? LAUGHTER
00:15:49
Speaker
Oh, so you sit there, do you, with a bit of going, oh, well, that's a gold, gold, gold. We've all, you know, we've seen that. It's like, okay, I've got this many gold. We've got a couple of trophies. We might be in for a shot here. So, but yeah, it's always, it's great to kind of be recognised with those guys and in that level because there are so many good breweries that, you know, in that medium and good independent Australian breweries there. So, you know, pretty chuffed with that one and,
00:16:15
Speaker
You know, I also think we would just to take that inaugural um Australian independent one was was also just something we'll always, I think, really be proud of wherever the business goes or wherever it goes to.
00:16:27
Speaker
I think being able to take that first one that they've done was just something really special. And and And yeah, just just to take a step back, we have won won awards in the past and I must admit that every time the Australian parallel comes on, we get really nervous. you do You don't really want to be sitting at our table because it's almost because of that first trophy we won, it's become this expectation, right?
00:16:51
Speaker
And it's it's been hard to shake that expectation, right? We're always like, where's the XBA going to get? Where's the XBA going to get? Because that's obviously the the backbone of the business and where we started. and And, yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
And that's Sam's fault because she used to put so much bloody pressure on her and make her so nervous. So we carry that into every awards. But I actually think it's better now. You know, when she was still with the brewery, it was I used to like call her after every judging day. I was like, so Sam, ah so Sam, how was it? How was it? Did you recognize anything you tasted? and I saw you guys having a bit of a laugh with her at the awards. Like just does she still sort of feel some sort of attachment to how how you guys do given so many of her recipes will still be part of the business?
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. stem Sam's not working in the business day to day. She's doing her thing now, which, you know, she sounds like she's having a great time, but she's still a shareholder.
00:17:47
Speaker
yeah So she's got a vested interest in in the success of the brand, right? so And of course she does. I mean, she's very proud of those recipes and we're very proud of them as well.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yeah, and so she should be, you know, there and you're you're right, like those recipes are You know, the ones we're winning big trophies for are her recipes. And, know, think it's a credit to what she's done um in terms of the people that she trained that are still running the brewery today.
00:18:13
Speaker
you know, those guys are all still we' all still here when Sam was here that they've carried on her legacy. So, you know, she should feel massively proud, like we are, you know, proud of the the recipe she originally created and the legacy she's passed on.
00:18:25
Speaker
ah you You talked about some the impact for yourselves and for the team, you know real sort positive boost for the business. has Has there been any impact sort of externally in terms of people getting in touch going, hey, we want to get more of your beer? Because that's something we sort look at with awards. Is there much sort of interest either ah afterwards from consumers or from retailers or whatever? Has there been people knocking back on the door and going, and hey, we need some more your haze or whatever?
00:18:50
Speaker
um We've had a... So from a bar perspective, we literally the weekend after we we pulled in a record Saturday. So if that's a good um indication that I think people were coming here, we can't 100% correlate it, but I'd say there's a little bit on that.
00:19:05
Speaker
um From the sales perspective, um you know, still still early days, but I think, you know, just generally talking to the guys, I think there, you know, there's been a lot of congrats out there. And I think,
00:19:16
Speaker
You know, it gives us a little bit more confidence, I think, from a sales perspective to be able to go into these venues, to sell our new MPDs in, to ask for extended ranging, knowing that, you know, we do have, you know, a little bit of more credibility behind us.
00:19:30
Speaker
um But yeah, that's it's also how how we support it and tell the story. I think in ah in the past, it's kind of like, oh, right, you get this kind of like honeymoon period.
00:19:41
Speaker
where it's like two to three weeks, you can talk about it. But when you're talking about some of the awards we've won in this time, and it's 2025, we're going to talk about it for the rest of the year. because it's like We'll talk about the inaugural champions.
00:19:56
Speaker
and They're the only ever winners of. and that's It's almost like that thing where, you know, like if someone wins world's best something, like ah there was a gelato place in Newtown that won world's best gelato.
00:20:10
Speaker
And everyone went there. No one knew of the place until it came up. And then there was lines down the street. Not saying that's going to happen here. But the reality is if we talk about it and we utilize that press, it's going to benefit us.
00:20:24
Speaker
It's just really hard to measure, as you know. And is that is that driven home more because of XBA and it being such an important beer in terms of what filter is? Yeah, I think so. Like, ah it's still our staple. It still keeps the lights on. It's what we're most proud of.
00:20:40
Speaker
um You know, it's the beer that's in the national ranging. Well, sorry, the you know, the bigger boys ranging. And and that's the one that's, you know, we really push to everyone. So to have that backup of the trophy, and I think also off the back of, you know, what we were pretty stoked with our Gabs result this year as well, you know, jumping into the top 10 for the first time. yeah.
00:21:00
Speaker
You know, ah the momentum on the XBA is is is really good at the moment. um We're not giving you numbers, but it's good. That skew doing what we, you know, what the high expectations we have for it, um you know, it's doing really well.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah. Now, we sort touched upon this on the phone a bit yesterday, Mick, in terms of, you know, the sort of, I guess the last few years of sort of refocused on what you are as filter, but did you have sort an ethos behind what you wanted filter beers to be from the start?
00:21:30
Speaker
And is you is that something you sort of carried through in terms going, this is what we are in terms of the liquid we're going to put out? Yeah, absolutely. um Absolutely, James. like we I think the good thing about what Steph and I put together in our original brand concept was a lot about keeping it simple, being very focused on good, strong core values around the brand, and above all, making sure it's really good product. and And look, we lucked out by meeting Sam. She's probably one of the best
00:22:05
Speaker
brewers and creative brewers in the industry of creating recipes and and when you give her the time to really create something, she does a lot lot of things no one else has ever done um in in terms of what we know as and and just and And then the other piece is that that kind of philosophy we have around how the liquid fits with the packaging and how we communicate that to consumers, that's all really key. So the philosophy never changed in those times.
00:22:35
Speaker
What we realized is we don't need to be something we're not, right? So we it's very easy for brands to go, oh let's try this and let's do this and let's do that. And what we realized is We actually, that core of the business is drives, you know, the old 80-20 rule.
00:22:55
Speaker
and And that's what we really need to focus on. Because if you get too distracted and you walk away from that brand ethos, sometimes you lose lose yourself a bit um as a business. So um we just, in the last year, we've really refocused, um pulled together what we're really good at, made sure the liquid was just spot on. Mm-hmm.
00:23:16
Speaker
um and made sure that the brewers were very clear on the expectations of the business um and also the sales team and how, like, you know, there's and when times are tough, as you guys know,
00:23:29
Speaker
it's It's easy for people to race to the bottom, right? It's a really easy solution. For us, it's not about that. It's about really good value product at a good price for the consumer without having to discount, without having to go too sharp, without doing what a lot of, unfortunately, the industry industry's forced to do, to move product.
00:23:48
Speaker
um So for us, it's just really good product, really good quality. Yeah. Probably the sort question we might normally have left to the end, but as we're talking about the beers, I know you know there's this sort of the favourite child kind of thing.
00:23:59
Speaker
I guess the XPA is always going to hold a special place in your heart because you know it's built the brand and one of these awards and stuff. But of all the beers you've released over the years, are there any personal favourites or standouts? Whether it's in the limited release schedule and you look forward to one coming out every year or is it just XPA all the way?
00:24:17
Speaker
ah's For me, it's hard to go away from XPA. In all fairness, if and the the good answer to this is, you know, we've got 12 beers on tap. What beer do I go to?
00:24:27
Speaker
i go to the XVA. That's what I like to drink. And that's just my personal preference. um And that's what happened when built it, right? Between Sammy, Steph, and myself, it's like, well, what beer do we like to drink? And we all found that same profile. Yeah.
00:24:44
Speaker
And she built the product to that, what we like. Unfortunately, lot of other people like it as well. In terms of like those limiteds, because there are still limiteds that we love to do. You know, the haze is always up there. When that comes out, you know, it's, you know, I'm always straight to the canning line because I want to try it as soon as it comes off to see how that batch has come out.
00:25:04
Speaker
think the double IPA has always been, you know, a real big favorite of ours. um And also this year, we're really excited to bring back the Caribbean stout. yeah that's one that i will always keep an eye out for it's yeah just a really yeah delicious it was beautiful to have that back and i think almost not having it for a couple of years because i think given the cost of living and beer that big and the and the price you know i think it was good to give it a bit of a break for a couple of years but when we re-released it this year it just went crazy and went you know we pretty much sold out on it and um and to try it again and we had it on nitro i here at the brewery and it's
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's pretty popular. yeah I remember when I was first sent samples when the first batch came out, and like, what the hell is a Caribbean stout? And then I tried it and it's just delicious. it doesn't It doesn't really matter what it is. It's just really bloody lovely.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a really beautiful beer. That was an exciting one this year. But in terms of newness, and I actually was going to say the same as Steph, but newness in this year, I actually am really excited about that. we In February, we released an American Palo.
00:26:07
Speaker
ah which we've only really done as super limited kind of runs um and not a different recipe, slightly adjusted. But that was that thing was amazing. like Yeah. And it's it's sold really – like it's sold out and it's ah had really good wrap from, from um you know, consumers and and and the market. So ah it's good to see some new stuff coming through that I'm like, we've got to do that again one day.
00:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. So – I think everyone loves it when a more old school classic APA comes along with a bit more malt character in those older school hops. It's like, oh, yeah, that's what that's what got me into this thing, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:46
Speaker
Do you think that in terms of limiteds and where you sort of stand at the moment and this cost of living crisis is that sort of a path you've been thinking about a little bit more like going back into that classic kind of because that is a very classic craft beer style and sort of maybe throwing a bit down to nostalgia a little more i think from our perspective you know we've really last 12 to 18 months in terms of our limited programs have really focused on what we thought A, we think we do a style really well. I think, you know, we've touched on it. We do sessionable beers.
00:27:17
Speaker
I think we do them really well. So to focus on that in a time when consumers are also looking for value on shelf. So, you know, I think a lot, we've done four different versions of XBA over the last, you know, 18 months.
00:27:31
Speaker
yeah And that's, they've all been very successful for us. And and taking us back to those, you know, the times, the pre-COVID times of, you releasing a beer and having the the the the luxury of having it sold out before it even is out of tank, that's that's where we've seen it. and I think the the price point is driving that a little bit as well.
00:27:51
Speaker
I think um you know if you're doing a triple or something like that, it's it's going to be a lot harder to to pre-sell a tank. um particularly when our tanks aren't that small either, to kind of go down that path. So that has driven, I think, our ethos of yeah you know our MPD innovation.
00:28:07
Speaker
In saying that, you know we still like to have know some bigger beers. We were fortunate enough with our mates at Batch, we did a um ah triple IPA collab with those guys. So we're always looking at ways that we can kind of still show the consumer what I think we can still do in those bigger categories, things like always having the haze out,
00:28:27
Speaker
It's great having the awards, though. you've got an excuse to brew them and the double. This week, sorry, next week, we've got our double red being re-released as well, which is just a cracking beer. So, you know, but we're just doing them in those smaller numbers. And I think because of the momentum we've had with the pre-sales of our, um you know, the the more sessionable beers, we're now seeing these batches also being sold out, which is just great.
00:28:51
Speaker
um But, you know, just being realistic of you don't have to sell, you know, a thousand cartons of something that's massive, you know, just sell what you think you can get to the market. And, you know, we're quite content with that at the moment, I think, that mentality.
00:29:05
Speaker
That's great. And then stepping aside from the the beers, um you're sat at the bar in, I guess, part three of the the filter venue expansion. And for, you know, people that might be newer or not, know, the history of filter, you know,
00:29:20
Speaker
started out as a brewery without a brewery, ah you know, brewing company, you know, brewing under license. Then you went to a brewery with a venue. And I guess the brewery is kind of in that first venue as well. It's kind of like it's cut down the middle. It's quite sort of old school, you know, venue on one side, then the brewery. Then you added Maritville Springs, you know, sort the cocktail venue. And now this and was that always part of the plan that it was going to be this sort of evolution through the venue or has that sort of developed over time?
00:29:47
Speaker
um Yeah, look, the the to to start from the beginning, i think that we were really cautious about building a brewery before a brand. So we wanted the brand before the brewery, right?
00:30:00
Speaker
So that was kind of step one. um We didn't expect to have success so quickly, to be honest. I mean, I think it was a great surprise.
00:30:10
Speaker
And riding on that success, at what became a real factor is that um we had incredible What became a real factor was that we kept growing. So the volumes kept getting bigger, the demand kept getting and the the brewery size went, just kept going up.
00:30:27
Speaker
Right. Until we finally stuck on where we're at. The idea was about future proofing that. um And then literally we signed the lease, we've got everything going, ordered it all. got the financing, did everything we needed to do as a brand and and ourselves.
00:30:42
Speaker
And what what became of it was COVID about two months later. And, you know, all of a sudden, as as some of you ah you guys know, and some listeners know, like we ended up having to build the brewery or Sam built the brewery on on on Zoom, which was, you know, really exciting at the time because no one knew what Zoom was.
00:31:01
Speaker
um But it's um It's what's come out of it is the venue we realized was always a necessity. It keeps the lights on week to week. But what became out out of that is we had a lot more room to grow into um and we couldn't do it all at the one time. and We know that sometimes hospitality is about creating newness and stories, so away from the brand side. And and those releases of the sports bar in the Marrickville Springs at the time did amazing things for Serges because we released, we opened them the first bar in the first
00:31:37
Speaker
lockdown yeah It was one four metre square rule rule or something. Yeah, there was a lot of restrictions. There was a lot of restrictions. And after the next COVID lockdown, we released the rooftop. And now we've got this 350 capacity venue, which is it's amazing.
00:31:54
Speaker
You know, it's like it's there's three different zones. um it's it's it's's We're so happy of where it's come to. yeah And it's really... really the byproduct of a lot of hard work and and taking opportunities when they came without overextending ourselves um and opening up multiple venues we're like we've got a lot of footprint here let's maximize this and we wanted different experiences for consumers to to have and we're we're really fortunate that our business partner simon he's um you know he's got a really strong hospitality background and he's built venues in the past
00:32:30
Speaker
and And you can certainly see his influence and and in, you know, in the space. The decision-making. Yeah, like I know the Maripal Springs, if you've been here, our rooftop bar, that was not a rooftop bar. And when he said we're taking the roof off, we were like, sorry.
00:32:48
Speaker
But, you know, you you see that influence that someone who's been, had the experience. And it's even small things about, you know, it's, you know, how to set your bar up properly, how much space you need to have, like having people that know those exact things, I think really has helped us not make mistakes and make it a really nice environment to be in, to work in, make sure the flow to the bar is great. And these are the things that, you know, Mick and I clearly he had no idea about.
00:33:15
Speaker
We know how to drink in a bar, but we don't really know the the inside running. So I think that's really paid off, I think, in terms of um the experience that we can we can give to to people here at Filter.
00:33:26
Speaker
I was going to say, for people that are sort of listening in and not watching or haven't been before, how how would you describe like the vibe and the you know the the look and feel of of the the venue overall, but I guess the individual parts as well?
00:33:38
Speaker
when When you come into Filter, you know the main bar when you walk in or the main brewery space, we wanted it to be really inviting. um We wanted to try and create a classic. australiana pub vibe so you know we've got some really nice kind of subway style tiles on the bar um we're really fortunate that simon had um access to one of australia's oldest bars bar top so actually bart top our wooden bar top has come out of one of australia's oldest bars and you know there's a lot of history in that piece of timber which we've been able to bring in so we've tried to create that really nice feel but also we wanted it open to the brewery
00:34:13
Speaker
You know, we're loud and proud about what we do here. And, you know, if you come into filter and you're downstairs, during the day, you can come in here, you can watch the guys, you know, create Australia's best beers. There you go.
00:34:26
Speaker
And but at night, we turn the lights off. There's just the really nice hues off the the tanks. And then you've got a classic pub style. um We then created Maracle Springs, which you might want to Yeah, yeah. And that that was the concept development was about Okay, well, what are the different personalities of filter?
00:34:45
Speaker
You know, and and the first personality is that classic Australian pub vibe, really homely, really comfortable. Upstairs is more about, okay, well, what's filter when you filter goes out and parties a bit and it's on the rooftop. So it's got a very different vibe.
00:35:02
Speaker
but still the same brand, that brand connection. It's like Palm Springs inspired. Yeah, Palm Springs, but Marrickville by the sea kind of thing. And it's it's the idea behind that was there was no one else with a rooftop in Marrickville. So why the hell not, right? yeah um It was an opportunity. And then the the final bit around the sports bar probably has developed as the brand has developed. So when we started off,
00:35:27
Speaker
um We were very focused on on music, culture, um you know, and and from a sports point of view, it's probably more like surfing and skateboarding. We did collaborations. And and then as we grew into Merrickville and having this home, we started partnerships with different teams from the area. And I think that supporting community through local partnerships has been so important, whether it's a band whether it's ah you know a shop opening, whether it's a gallery, whether it's the local sporting team.
00:35:58
Speaker
And the sports bar just became a natural connection. So it's 1980s, RSL-inspired, old um kind of office-style ceilings, um timber, lots of you know classic nostalgia and memorabilia on the wall.
00:36:14
Speaker
Which was really fun to source, just FYI. It's like being a kid in a candy shop. So are we literally rolling into, you know, antique shops or deceased?
00:36:27
Speaker
We've got some amazing pieces. Like there's a Bradman signed bat. There's, you know, Swans premiership winning jerseys. We've got our mighty Newtown Jets that we support. You know, really they've donated some beautiful pieces here.
00:36:41
Speaker
um yeah we we We found this guy that had a man cave. He was crazy. And he was in the south of Sydney, been a collector for 40 years. um And he was selling all this stuff like ah Sydney 2000 signed pictures of um ah the of ahll all different tickets framed, everything. It's like we found some really great stuff. It was pretty fun.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah, it was really fun. It was like, you know, the thing your wife will never let you have. Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
And we've got three rooms here. it's Sorry. that We've got the Hall of Fame, which is nostalgia. Yeah. And then we've got the Hall of Shame, which is the one you see with all the nudie runners and the streakers. The most famous nudie runs from around the world. They're all ah displayed in our pool room. Nice.
00:37:30
Speaker
Well worth a look. Great. and And just saying we've all had our bar, I think we forgot to mention, we are we do have our own restaurant as well. and I think that's also really helped because, you know, we've got the same consistent food offering week in, week out.
00:37:43
Speaker
And that's across but the three venues that we have here, at the same menu. Yeah. And how do you find it? I mean, you know, you're in the middle of Marrickville. It's the most brewery-dense, I don't know, part of the world or whatever the Inner West marketing is saying at the moment. The capital of the world.
00:37:57
Speaker
yeah ah Is it? um How do you sort of define yourselves in that? Because there's so many people going around to breweries in the area. Yeah, I think, um you know, we're really proud to be part of, you know, the craft beer capital of Australia.
00:38:11
Speaker
um I think the great thing about what we all do here is we're all different. um You know, it's great for people to know to come to Marrickville for a new town for craft beer, but they can also come to each brewery and get a really different experience. I think that's what we've really done well as a collective is each brewery you can go to and it's completely different.
00:38:36
Speaker
um And that's, I think the great thing about people coming and going and seeing a lot of different things is you just not get the same experience. It's always different wherever you go. Still room for a few more? I'm sure there is. I'm sure there will be. I'd say there probably will be. yeah So long as there's, like Steph said, that differentiation,
00:38:58
Speaker
um ah don't think there's anything wrong with more good brands and provide actually bringing out great beers to the area. yeah But I think differentiation in brand and the kind of product you bring out is really important. Like Bracket came to the area and and and we know their beers are great. that They have a particular focus on what kind of beer styles. it And to be honest, there's there's a few in the area that do it, but not many. So it was a welcome option, to be honest, you know, for that real crafty consumer.
00:39:33
Speaker
um While when Hawks came to the area, they did something completely different to everyone else. So I think differentiation and standing out and being clear on your brand is, if you do that, you're going to be successful.
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah, great. Well, I'd love come back and have have a chat about the start of the filter brand as well. um This might be a good time to take a little break and then we'll come back and sort of go go back to the very start of the story. Cool. Okay.
00:39:56
Speaker
Great.
00:40:01
Speaker
And now we're breaking down beer styles with Mogwai Labs. Mogwai has one of the most diverse yeast collections available for brewers and other beverage makers in Australia. If you're looking for the perfect pitch, visit Mogwai Labs, that's M-O-G-W-A-I-L-A-B-S dot com dot A-U today.
00:40:21
Speaker
All right, guys, it's Craig here and we're talking styles, breaking down your favorite beer styles with Josh from the legends at Mogwai Labs. Today, I'm joined by Josh, but also with our special guests, Jared and Lincoln from Felons Brewing.
00:40:35
Speaker
And we're talking all about one of my favorite styles, the Irish stout. um Guys, welcome to the podcast. Hey, how are we doing? Yeah, thanks for having us. Josh, um mate, we'll start with you Tell me all about the Irish Stout. What's the kind of, give me some examples of it. What's that style all about in a nutshell? um Yeah, right. Well, um I guess leading with um with some um classic Irish examples, like where we're thinking Guinness Draft, Murphy's, Beamish, O'Hara's.
00:41:11
Speaker
But I mean, our brain goes straight to Guinness Draft every time, you know, like um it's it's a big, you know, it's it is the biggest dark beer in the world.
00:41:25
Speaker
um It's, you know, like ah the Irish identity is attached to this beer style. um And the the history around this style is, you know absolutely fascinating. And I guess like some more classic Australian examples of the style, we look at ah Cooper's Best Extra Stout, Southwark Sheaf,
00:41:49
Speaker
um ah Yeah, so there's some domestic examples. And then um I guess like looking at the um this style in a nutshell without delving too much into like the ingredient breakdown.
00:42:02
Speaker
um It's a... it's It's a low ABV beer, 4%, 4.5% appearance. It's a dock dark black beer where you expect ah a bit of a tan in the head.
00:42:13
Speaker
Flavor-wise, you're expecting a dry finish in the beer, which will help with the style for for drinkability.
00:42:24
Speaker
um And that sort of leads into the aromas where you should expect, you know, like a good level of roast with real subtle fruit from the yeast profile. And it ah it drinks really well and it's popularly served on nitro.
00:42:38
Speaker
And I've got to say, Josh, it's probably um a beer that's had a massive resurgence in
Resurgence of Irish Stouts
00:42:44
Speaker
popularity of late. I mean, you mentioned Guinness, but their whole split the G campaign. And I feel like it's a beer that's been around for hundreds of years, but is all of a sudden now one of the coolest beers out there again.
00:42:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we're we're definitely seeing a resurgence with um local independent brewers like Felons ah that are trying to replicate the style. Yeah, nice. and And we'll come to Felons in a sec, but tell me from, you you know, you guys make amazing liquid yeast. You've got, I believe, a ah strain specifically specifically designed for Irish stout.
00:43:19
Speaker
How do you come up with that? Like what what does that mean from a yeast maker's perspective? What are you looking for in that yeast? Yeah, look, ah um our um Irish strain is branded MOG 003 Swagger.
00:43:34
Speaker
um And the key parameters that we've selected for this yeast is, so it's a it's strain with moderate attenuation. So it sits in between that 70%
00:43:48
Speaker
6% range. It's a good flocculator, which is key for this beer style where you want to be able to create a really clean beer to to expose that malt profile.
00:43:59
Speaker
um More into that flavour profile. um So again, it can create a it does create a relatively clean beer, but it gives you like really subtle esters that is like the yeast design to to really sit in the background for this beer.
00:44:16
Speaker
Ester types, you know, ethyl hexamate style esters. So pear, apple are the the classic ones that it can throw. But depending on the the temperature range or other brewing parameters that you use for creating these beers, um you can get you can get more complex fruity profiles to it. but ah And that leads on to the real superpower um of this yeast is its ability to enhance the malt profile in this beer.
00:44:47
Speaker
And all this stuff, this is where you delve into the history of the style and these strains. It arose from these Irish breweries creating these styles back in the 1700s where breweries like Guinness were choosing strains that produced desired flavour and fermentation characteristics.
00:45:08
Speaker
And the yeast evolved through these generations of selective reuse to be highly adaptive, ah to these dark Irish styles. um That means that this strain can deal with roasted malts better.
00:45:23
Speaker
um Roasted malts are not a yeast best friend. ah to And as we touched on before, it has the ability to create these low ester profiles that enhance the perception of malt sweetness in these beers, just like fruit can enhance the the chocolate in ah in a chocolate dessert.
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And now we'll go to the felons guys. Jared, tell me, you guys have just brewed a take on the Irish Stout. um What I guess was your approach to that? Like, how how did that kind of work?
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and Josh sort of keying on it there, with the Irish Ale, that 4, 4.5% thing, you kind of think of it as this clean sort of dry beer.
00:46:11
Speaker
And as a brewer, sometimes I'm a bit like, well, maybe we shouldn't overcomplicate it. Maybe we should just stick to like a clean, easy of yeast and not bother um and just keep it simple. But I think choosing to use that Irish ale is actually really key to getting something a bit more full and round.
00:46:28
Speaker
I think, you know, there are those like subtle esters that Josh is talking about. And, you know, most people don't pick apart the beer like that to most people though. It is like a bit of an intangible. Like I think if you just used USO5 or like a clean ale yeast strain,
00:46:46
Speaker
you know, a dry, dark beer like that would feel really hollow on the back end because, you know, it's not heaps of business. It's just a little bit of roasty character there. It's not very sweet. It kind of would be a bit lacking.
00:46:58
Speaker
And I think you really do need those subtle esters coming through off that Irish ale to lift that beer. Yeah. and And just add body, as you say, like it's, you want every element of that to add body and flavor.
00:47:13
Speaker
And it it doesn't actually add body, but it adds this perceived body. and And that was like Josh was saying at the end of what he said there. I think it's really, really important. I think another funny thing we found with this Josh's mog swagger, it actually throws out quite a lot of esters early on in fermentation.
00:47:33
Speaker
And I will say we were a little worried. at the beginning but it um it conditions out really nicely like you know when we were first sort of on chill starting to condition we're like for this this is a spicy boy we've got some stuff going on and you know it was still a nice beer but probably was starting to feel a bit bit more intense yeah yeah But, you know, a bit of conditioning time, it's actually mellowed out. Everything's integrated really nicely.
00:48:01
Speaker
And the yeast has done exactly what Josh has said, where it sort of, it started very forefront when we were first on chill and just through conditioning. Now it's just mellowed in, it sits in the background and it sort of does its job in rounding out the whole product.
00:48:16
Speaker
and and Lincoln I mean we you're the head brewer at Felons we can't let Jared take all the credit for for this beer uh any kind of i guess learnings that you've picked up over the years in in dealing with this style like what do you what do you what can you pass on to our listeners uh look I've got to say um I've, I've grew a few, grew a few stouts, um, in my time. and I've always chosen to do it with an Irish yeast. I feel like they, Irish yeast just brings in this, uh, we've already discussed the, the, the Esther profile and that really helps to bring together all the, the roasty malt characters, um,
00:48:58
Speaker
and gives you just this great great perception of a well-integrated beer. An Irish style yeast as well is really good for the
00:49:09
Speaker
all kinds of alcohol production. So we've we've used the same yeast for our Imperial Stout up to 10.5%. It's very versatile. um And once again, it gives great and ah great level of best, ah great mouth feel and a very clean palate.
00:49:29
Speaker
So you've got great aroma, but the actual finished product is a really clean drinking beer. And I've got to say that it's great to have an Australian source, um you know, to have that now available ah rather than having to try and import it and and grow up a pitch and all that sort of stuff. but ah Having it available through Mogwai is amazing. 100%. And and my guys, when is this new stout out?
00:49:57
Speaker
So our nitro Irish stout called Split the F is out on the 5th of June. It's next Thursday, from over whenever this goes out, I guess. yeah And then our Imperial Stout, same yeast, will be released on the 27th of July, solstice. Yeah.
00:50:18
Speaker
No? No, it's the 19th of June. 19th of June. Way off. So far off. Amazing. um And that'll actually be released with last year's barrel-aged stout, which will also be on Mog, which has been conditioned in Cape Byron whiskey and Mac barrels.
00:50:37
Speaker
Very nice. Well, i can't wait to to split the F and and hopefully see a few more Irish stouts coming out around the country. Thank you so much, guys. Appreciate these insights. Thanks, Josh. Thanks, Jared. Thanks, Lincoln.
00:50:49
Speaker
Cheers. Thank you. Thanks, Craig. Cheers. Mogwai Labs can help your brewery create custom yeast strains for your beers, with biobanking services to help keep your house culture safe and supply a fresh pitch whenever you need.
00:51:02
Speaker
Check them out at Mogwai Labs, that's M-O-G-W-A-I-L-A-B-S dot com dot au.
00:51:12
Speaker
I welcome back, guys. and I guess there will be many people listening to this or watching this who don't know filter and haven't tried your beers. But there might be a fair few people out there don't know. And I guess your background before filter. So you know, what but what were you guys doing before conceiving the brand? and You know, how did you guys become mates or start working together?
00:51:34
Speaker
You can start, mate. Assuming you are mates. No, no, no. Fortunately, we're still mates. um No, so it's a pretty – it's probably a pretty common story.
00:51:46
Speaker
um but So Steph and I actually um met each other as neighbours. um We both lived at macfield the lost a in in the West for the last – 15 years um and we lived across the road from each other and actually um met him literally on the first day he moved in because I moved in maybe six or 12 months before across the road. He was rummaging through the stuff that the people didn't take before me. so They left all this stuff out on the road and I was like, what's that? What's that? You know, it was kind of a few artifacts there.
00:52:19
Speaker
um So early days of marketplace. I was just trying to make some money on the site. think it was called Gumtree back then, wasn't it? But yeah, so we met and then got to know each other and and we spent way too many, um you know, Saturday nights watching the footy down the pub.
00:52:37
Speaker
Yep. Just, you know, for a little break from small children and and and our ah better halves probably. but Kids are all similar ages, same primary school. Yeah, same primary school. yeah And then cut a long story short, um we started talking about beer.
00:52:53
Speaker
um I was – my background – um in kind of brand marketing, but probably more on business development side of brand and marketing.
00:53:04
Speaker
And I worked in the surf industry for many years ah for O'Neill, which is, you know, probably know that one of the biggest surf brands and wetsuit brand in the world. and then um And that was in ah in ah in a big role, a global role early on. and And then um i I worked and overseas for a long time.
00:53:23
Speaker
um so I kind of ah knew a lot about brand and I saw an opportunity personally. um Looking at what for the guys like Young Henry's and Batch had done in the local area.
00:53:34
Speaker
In terms of craft beer and why did I make the switch, when I was traveling, spent a lot of time going to California. I lived in Holland. I spent a lot of time going to breweries in Holland and Europe and particularly down into Belgium.
00:53:49
Speaker
A little bit of fun, you know, early kids, my wife ah my wife and I do little tro drives and go down the Trappist beers around Antwerp and stuff like that, ah the Trappist breweries. And then we when I traveled to the States, I really got to know craft beer, particularly Northern California and and Southern California.
00:54:07
Speaker
um there was just like it was blowing up in the mid-2000s. um And I got to know what beer was about and sort of the thing that attracted me to it is that beer is probably the only category you can build a brand that has a lot of character.
00:54:24
Speaker
It's hard to do so in wine because of, you know, the way the categories developed over the year. But with craft beer, it was almost there was a lot of personality. And I found that really appealing from brand point of view. And Steph and I started talking about what would work to a Sydney or ah an Australian consumer that we felt was missing at the time because craft beer was all about, it was either mainstream beer down here low ABV quite, you know, boring, quote unquote. um
00:54:59
Speaker
But actually the craft beers were more, focused on much higher ABV product and that upper end of IPAs and big beers. And we were like, well, what's in the middle? And, of course, a couple of other people thought the same, you know, Stone & Wood, for example, and finding that what do Australian consumers really want?
00:55:21
Speaker
And that's where it started, right? Yeah. um it's It's what we wanted. We wanted to create. We wanted to not just take people seriously We were drinking craft beer. We wanted to help grow the pie.
00:55:33
Speaker
You know, this is a great industry. And I think trying to bring people into this category. And I think when you look at that, that easy drinking style like Stoneham Woods, Pacific Ale, Coopers, you know, in in what they've achieved, little creatures back in the day, um you know, with that first introduction, that's where we kind of wanted to go down the path of having a really accessible craft beer, um you know.
00:55:56
Speaker
um And then from a branding perspective, we really just wanted something that, you know, would stand out on the shelf really had that nice modern, you know, 90s, kind of 80s nostalgia, Australiana um kind of feel to it.
00:56:10
Speaker
We kind of call it modern retro. Yeah. Yeah, yeah what was it about that? Because that um that sort of design has come a bit more in, I think, recently, whether it's cafes or bars, sort of in the last few years, was there something that you felt, you know, a groundswell of people getting getting into that sort of nostalgia or trying to get a certain Gen Z?
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. And just just a a quick step back. So my background has always been beer. So um I ah started at Lion a long time ago. I've worked on brands when, worked on k craft when i actually thought I was being demoted.
00:56:46
Speaker
I went from Tuohy's to work on Squires and I was like, what the hell is this? oh You know, and I've worked in innovation Lion. I've worked across some of the great brands in the country and I did a couple of years of theme as well. So It all in branding, marketing, sales roles. So in terms of the the design ethos, what we came up with, we really wanted something that, you know, simplicity to us was key.
00:57:09
Speaker
um Being really true to the ah keep it simple, mate, which is one of our, you know, our brand ah core values. The modern nostalgia piece was, I think, if you look at the brands when we started, there were great brands like Converse.
00:57:24
Speaker
I think having their re-dates. These brands are timeless. yeah you know They may be an old-looking brand. They don't need to go through a refresh every two to three years. I think if you can create something that's simple, striking,
00:57:37
Speaker
slightly polarizing um on purpose because I think polarization is always a great way for people to recognize and talk about your brand. I think I've mentioned this quite a few times when I've talked about some people just, it's always about,
00:57:54
Speaker
one in probably 20 that hates our brand because it thinks it looks like some kind of American thing. But then that one person who says something, there's 19 other people that come and defend us. And then you've got 20 people talking about your brand.
00:58:07
Speaker
yeah you but So you're actually paying this one in 20 people to go around and annoy people just to get them all wet in their mouth. but But in saying that, you do want to stand on shelf. And when we entered, there was so much craft. And you looked at we looked at America. We looked at the UK as those future markets where we might be.
00:58:25
Speaker
You were just knew what was going to happen in Dan's was going to happen, for example, where you just – it's a sea of craft. So if you can't find what you want or your brand that you're looking for, filter XBA on shelf by just scanning, there it is.
00:58:40
Speaker
you might pick up something else. And thats that was a key thing for us to just really make it you know striking and appealing. And did you have the name Filter before um another brand that sounds reasonably similar, now part of the Asahi empire came along?
00:58:55
Speaker
yeah it's It's a really good question. da Well, no. Did we connect that probably about six months after we launched? we were like, oh. There's quite a few brands that have come out or are making their way that have TER on the end of it. i'll but But was it something that we – no. it was That was the hardest thing. It was the hardest thing. The name was the hardest. We had the the like the the whole mapping of the brand positioning – where we want it to be, the styles, everything done before the name.
00:59:30
Speaker
And I think it was the night before we had to get this off to our designer. Yeah. And we had a list of, what, about three or four favorites. Yeah. And, um you know, in the end it was like – He just said – what he say? He said, i actually think it's – let me just design it and we'll see if it works. And when it came back, it was like slam dunk. it was perfect. You know what mean?
00:59:51
Speaker
And we like the simplicity in the name. So the simplicity was always perfect. And I think I always go back to this when I explain it to people is some of the great brands that have existed in the country, things like Tuis in beer, people don't know what Tuis is. is but they will know what a Toowee's beer is.
01:00:10
Speaker
So for a filter, we just needed it to be nice and easy to say, I'll have a couple of filters, thanks. um I'll have two filters. But there's always a nice hidden story behind, um you know, the brand and what it is.
01:00:21
Speaker
And I'm sure we're happy to to say that to you guys. So um a filter is a ah medieval love potion. Oh, okay. but So if you gave someone in there in the you know the medieval times, if you you gave wanted someone to fall in love with you, you would give them a filter.
01:00:37
Speaker
um so hence where seductively beer came from ah what we put into our product we want you to fall in love with us so that's um that's the brand story but again it's something we'll always hold hold dear to us down the bottom and for the lucky people are listening to this, they'll know what it is. But I think it's some... It's a golden nugget on the brand story.
01:00:58
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic fantastic to hear that. um That's great. and And in terms of like, know yeah you know, your background was in beer, your background was in branding, marketing side of things or I guess both had common grade marketing.
01:01:11
Speaker
How have you sort of divided the labor within foot filter now? then i mean, obviously you've got the brewing team handling that. you' got sales guys out on the road. In terms of the two of you? Yeah, it's ah like... Since day one, we've kind of... was pretty clear, right? Like, I don't believe that one person can just create the what Like, you know, like Steve Jobs, he didn't do it all himself, right? Let's be clear. He got good people to do it. And when Steph and I, when we first built the business case around it, we're like, okay, well, we're going to use my skill sets, which are in the operational, generalist, finance, forecasting, budgeting, all that, you know, Steph's skill sets in product positioning, brand sales,
01:01:59
Speaker
channel development, all that kind of stuff. sims Sam came in as a specialist in creating product. and meeting the recipe brief. Simon in terms of the hospitality side. So we we kind of had skill sets in the business that drove it and we built down from those pillars of business.
01:02:19
Speaker
So what we do now is no different to what started then. Sure, Steph has learned a lot about the finance side of the business, which he may not have learned in the past. How to spend money. i spend money and You've got to read a P&L and a balance sheet properly and all that kind of stuff. While I've learned a lot more about the, you synchrosities of selling through wholesalers and what you need to do and price points and allowances and like all this world of retail and merchandising, which he knows everything about, which is key.
01:02:50
Speaker
to be successful in in building a brand and in this market. and And what about your first contact with Sammy? Was she a neighbour as well? Is that how it came about? She actually lived around the corner just randomly. So when we would we first, you know, it was over a a schooner at the Golden Barley Hotel, the mighty Golden Barley in Edinburgh.
01:03:11
Speaker
One of Sydney's great yeah Art Deco pubs, right? It's a beautiful building. It's our local community. And the publicans good friends of ours. So um we're in there having a scooter and we um we decided, great, let's do this brand, right? So we went home, went to the wives, said we're going to create a craft brand. They laughed at us.
01:03:29
Speaker
um Anyway, we we are actually quite serious. um We were really fortunate to find Simon, someone who believes, I think, in the vision that we had on board. And and he you know believed in what we were trying to create and jumped on board pretty much straight away.
01:03:43
Speaker
and then, We like, great. Well, now we need his beer. We need beer. yeah That's the one thing we we couldn't do. So we kind of looked at a bit of a a hit list of who we thought was was out there and available. And, you know, it was just great. we We met with Sam withy at the Union, wasn't it? Yeah, the Union Hotel. and Union Hotel, another great venue. Yeah.
01:04:04
Speaker
met there and just had a great chat. And I think the thing we've always said about that meeting was it didn't feel like we were you doing an interview or doing anything like that. just felt like a chat with a mate. And I think that was part of, I think, the success story that, you know, led to what we did.
01:04:18
Speaker
um And yes, you did literally live around the corner. So our first office was in the city. So we used to drive the three of us in our little iLoad um in there every morning. On the bed seat? Yes. so who Who got the drive was the the key, so you didn't have to go like this. You talked before about how how the two of you had an idea of the beer you wanted to drink, ah thus create, and we spoke to Sammy last year on the podcast, a beautiful place in Bali, and she was talking about how she tried a similar beer with old salt or whatever.
01:04:52
Speaker
so There must have been quite a nice sort synchronicity there that she had this idea for a beer that she believed was going to work in Australia. And you guys but you know he liked a similar sort of thing. So did that sort of help, I guess, things progress that you were all homing in on a similar sort of product?
01:05:10
Speaker
Absolutely. I think in this game, you have to all believe in what you're trying to achieve. Yeah. you know You all have to be on the same path. Otherwise... you know, you're bound to get stuck and go different directions. And, you know, you can see, I think, from the beer that was created and,
01:05:26
Speaker
You know, it was the beer we all wanted. Yeah. um And it was, I think we originally did a blind tasting of all beers at Mix House with Sammy of what we thought we all wanted.
01:05:38
Speaker
um I won't mention what her views were of my homebrew that I snuck in tasting. I've yet to do a homebrew since then. um But, yeah, we all kind of nailed on the same three top beers.
01:05:52
Speaker
Yeah. and and And Sam clearly had that recipe, you know, in here ready to go. And I think it was just fortunate that we all were on that same path and that's where we wanted to be.
01:06:03
Speaker
And I think just to be ah clear on it as well, because we've talked about this a lot since even when when Sam was still here, the the philosophy we built around the product was very clear that we wanted a modern pale ale, right? So nostalgic packaging, modern pale ale.
01:06:23
Speaker
We sometimes look back and go, if we had brought out a classic Aussie Palo, would we have the same success? Well, we wouldn't have won the awards probably. But, um you know, it's it's the that's what's so – the right ingredients in products is always so key.
01:06:39
Speaker
And the fact that that beer, when you pour it into a glass, tastes like a very classic modern beer, which was driven around that change that guys like Really, Cooper started in the beginning, but but Stone and Wood took to the next forefront.
01:06:54
Speaker
Like, that that was what became the true modern Australian pale ale style. ah That Pacific Ale stroke, you know, Volta XBA stroke, Filter XBA. That's what, the you know, and we're really proud of that. I think that that's such a key thing for your listeners to...
01:07:11
Speaker
Product mix is not just about the packaging and the beer separate. it It has to all fit together so that when people drink it and they look at it, they get it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they certainly have. You know, as it certainly has struck a chord from the start and and has and stayed there all the way through. um And I guess...
01:07:29
Speaker
yeah we touched upon little bit earlier, yeah i guess, you know, with COVID and the lockdowns and what have you, have you sort of navigated those challenges over the last five years? I'm assuming XPA has probably been, you know, core to sort of get, you know, navigating and surviving the challenge the last few years. But if you had to,
01:07:45
Speaker
change the business in any way? sounds like you you had a very strong values it and you ideas for the brand, but has that evolved over the last few years, you due to cost of living, due to COVID, due to another, you know, 20 breweries ah opening within 5Ks of you?
01:08:00
Speaker
I think the biggest change that we had to do was was the pack format change. I think that's the the best example, I think. So we we were originally in a six pack, a 24 pack for the XBA, but, you know, the clear demand for, know,
01:08:15
Speaker
you know, a product that was more value driven, affordable. um That was probably the biggest and hardest change we've done as a business. Because you've also established yourself in that pack format, but having to then change it,
01:08:26
Speaker
and And we did hold off for a long time because I think we were one of the last ones to kind of almost make the move yeah um to that format because clearly Bolter were doing it really well. so um And, you know, you've got to look to to what others are doing. So that's a great example, I think, of how we've had to adapt.
01:08:42
Speaker
I think the rationale, though, was also based on a financial one for us. Oh, 100%. Yeah. because you know like and no discredit to anyone else, but our beer is at the same price point as other competitors with an Australian pale ale in the market or that kind of pale ale.
01:08:58
Speaker
And we have a lot more value in it, you know, like in that beer in terms of ingredients. And for us to maintain that price point in on shelf for a ah six pack meant we would have gone above $26, $27, $28 by now. And for 4.2% beer,
01:09:13
Speaker
twenty eight dollars by now and for a four point two percent yeah That's really hard to swallow. and There's a real mental ceiling of beer, isn't there? That I don't think maybe exists with some other products. like I don't think people might be willing to go higher with spirits or wine, but beer very much, it's very hard to push that $20.
01:09:34
Speaker
Yeah. yeah you've got on well I think the fact that the craft beer, independent craft beer anyway, is still like sitting at 5% of the total. beer sold in this country is a good indication.
01:09:45
Speaker
Yeah. You know, we're clearly the best beers in this country are coming out of independent craft brewers, but it doesn't represent the other 95% of beers sold in the country. Price definitely pays plays a massive factor in this, you know, and and I don't want to harp on it, but that's why I think the great advocacy work that the industry is doing just needs to continue because,
01:10:08
Speaker
That's how we're going to get bigger as an industry is just make our beer more accessible to to to consumers. and But price is just such a ah massive factor when you know beer is a massive pastime in this country and people want to buy a slab a week. But there's a big difference when you can get 30 cans versus 16 for a similar price point.
01:10:29
Speaker
And that's helped that we need people. Clearly we need government intervention, I think in that to kind of help bridge that gap. So, um, and also the consumer awareness.
01:10:40
Speaker
It was a big conversation piece for you when you did the crowd fund, right? It was something we're really proud of. Do you want to tell us a bit more about it and how you sort of conceived of it?
01:10:53
Speaker
Yeah. So, so the the, the, the, at the time, you know, when we raised the capital and we did the crowd fund, it was it came at a time when the the the winds of change were truly happening in the industry.
01:11:06
Speaker
You know, we came off that post-COVID bubble of everyone going out and everyone spending money and people still have money from all the government grants that were going around and and and and income protection and all that kind of stuff. and And it really, that that next winter of 2020,
01:11:24
Speaker
of twenty 23, really slid off the cliff, the whole market. Everyone felt it. and um And I think what we realized is we needed we actually went through that pack change we talked about.
01:11:39
Speaker
And what we realized is for us to really succeed in the future, we needed to also build up, like a lot of other breweries, build up our mix of sales because we were so heavily defended dependent on wholesale as a part of the business. So the The crowdfund came along and and also those winds of change were coming through.
01:11:59
Speaker
We felt it was a really pertinent and important story to tell. right so And we also felt that that the because so much had changed in during COVID and just before COVID, we've you know, Asahi and Lion, um sorry, CUB and Lion being bought by Japanese manufacturers. And I think a lot of the market just didn't even know it happened. As much as we can harp about it, most people... They still don't. still don't know, yeah right?
01:12:27
Speaker
And to them, it's like, you know, if you tell them that Nestle is from Switzerland, they're like, what? So what? It's chocolate. um So it's... Don't tell them that their VB is from... Yeah. That that that gets... I almost got into a punch-up in Melbourne once on that. Yeah.
01:12:43
Speaker
So so that I think my the point of my story is having the opportunity to tell that story as well, was it was great timing because it just wasn't about us. actually wanting to raise money for us or the brand it was about telling the industry or telling the market that there was massive changes going on and you should support indie beer and fortunately don't believe that was a massive part of the success of our race the fact of the matter is we have so many people that love our beer and they actually want keep drinking and they love to the idea of knowing that their investment goes into something
01:13:19
Speaker
that keeps the business and takes it to the next level.
Challenges in Craft Beer Accessibility
01:13:21
Speaker
And we use the predominant amount of that on building more of a venue here and investing in the brewery from an efficiency point of view so that we can continue making really good beer yeah and having a great place that people can experience filter in our products.
01:13:35
Speaker
You talked about making craft beer more accessible, and I guess um you know there's the price point element to that. Something we talked about, ah but I guess, before hitting record earlier today, you guys down in Melbourne for the Avers and got to experience bit of Pine of Origin. You were raving about sort of you know the HOSPO culture and seeing that there is still around here in Melbourne that maybe isn't the same in Sydney.
01:13:57
Speaker
and you thought Have you found that something that's changed in recent years in terms of finding it harder to access taps and stuff? as that you as belts have become tightened has their but you know have have you retail venue chains or have the big breweries sort of made it harder for you you to maintain or find taps around sydney as well because yeah from our perspective like sydney does look like the kind of place where it is becoming one ah one or two sort of hospital operator town almost to a degree yeah there there are a lot of those big groups and
01:14:28
Speaker
and And they are really challenging. You know, we're not in lot of those groups. They're really hard to get in because, you know, and coming from the other side of the fence, you know, I know how hard the big boys go for those contracts.
01:14:41
Speaker
And they will freeze us out of it. that That's the reality. You can say it's illegal or whatever you want to do, but the reality is that's our situation. We have to deal with it. um The good thing is I think I see the winds of change happening at the moment.
01:14:54
Speaker
Yeah. I see it in Sydney. i kind of seeing it in Melbourne too. And I think being down there for Line of Origin, like you said, was great. There are pubs that I think are tightening, you know, they're feeling the cost of living.
01:15:07
Speaker
But I can also see there's other venues where we're starting to get a bit more release. And I think a lot of it's on timings of when those tap contracts are up and down and what position those businesses are in.
01:15:19
Speaker
Some businesses, if they're struggling, are sure they're going to take the money that's on offer and you're probably going to lose that 50% that was available is now 80% is, you know, no longer available. That's the reality. But then I think on the flip side, there's other venues that the contracts finishing.
01:15:34
Speaker
And they're deciding not to go with those guys because they're in a better position because seeing more, you know, progression. So I think that's normal. we're going to see ups and downs in that. I think it's just making sure that we're always driving that conversation, you know, that craft is relevant. And I think that's up to the consumer as well, because we can go into a pub and say, hey, put filter XBA on tap.
01:15:56
Speaker
But unless the consumer is in there drinking craft beer, pub's going to put on what is selling. So yeah we've got ah we've got a job to do, like I said, to continually raise awareness um as an industry, make sure people want to drink craft.
01:16:11
Speaker
And I think the like the great thing that I saw in Melbourne is, and like hats off to you guys, and don't mean to float your boat because it's a podcast, but you guys are doing a great job in bringing consumers to those venues and creating not only a reason but ah a really fun reason and a massive bandwidth of great beer from around the world.
01:16:35
Speaker
Like it's really, it was really, i think. We had a great time. We had an awesome time. It's been such a long time since I've been to a pub and gone, I'll try that double um picked red IPA. We were being those people were like, well, can we just have a try of that one?
01:16:50
Speaker
it stick for that one And the people were just like, these people are going buy beer. But, you know, like that that has, you know, five years ago in Sydney, that market was here. COVID really quashed it out.
01:17:02
Speaker
Changes independent, um independent those independents, like the classic ones were either sold on and changed hands and And unfortunately, there's a chosen few left, which we have great relationships with a lot of them.
01:17:17
Speaker
But then a lot of them are also situated around the Craft Beer capital of of of Sydney, and they they struggle to really support the local breweries and I understand why because if I put myself in their context they don't want the same thing that you can get in five different pubs around here they'll probably support the smaller brews or they'll bring the interstate stuff but I actually think that's really healthy right because let's When you go to these awards, whether it's the Indies or the Avers or whatever, there's great beers coming out of WA. There's amazing breweries and beers coming out of Victoria, South Australia, like everywhere else as well.
01:17:58
Speaker
And those destinations are so important to allow the culture to thrive. And, yeah in all honesty, there's a chosen few, but I think, you know, there's a few of the guys like – you know who are kind of trying to pioneer with bringing Sydney beer weed back and and and I think we've actually gone okay we want to really support those guys because even if we don't get much of a look in because people know us it's important for the industry that we start to create that buzz back in Sydney and and give more venues the opportunity and encourage them to support independent beers
01:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, plenty of positivity coming through in what you're saying. I mean, hopefully we can maintain that
Filter Brewing's Future Focus
01:18:43
Speaker
throughout the whole industry. But I guess looking ahead, sort of what is next for filter? You've had a fairly, um you know, steady story of evolution and change over the years. Like if you if you were to look ahead for, you know, what you want to see filter for filter over the next six months or five years, whatever what are your sort of key goals now?
01:19:00
Speaker
i think it's just being true to what we've continued to do. um you won't see anything weird and wacky. You know, I don't think we're, we want to go off course of what we've been achieving, particularly in our last, you know, 18 month goal is pretty set that we, we just want to continue those strides.
01:19:17
Speaker
I think being realistic is, is really key for us. You know, we know the industry we're in and just being, you know, happy, but also slightly cautious is the right approach um and making sure we're just doing things that consumers still want, you know, but,
01:19:33
Speaker
making great beers, getting people into the venue. um Yeah. Yeah. It's just ticking boxes. I know it sounds a bit, you know, not as fun as exciting, but I think that's what's held us really well so far.
01:19:47
Speaker
So to deviate off that would probably be the wrong path. Yeah. And I think that to, to what's, you know, Steph said that we do have a three, three to five year plan on what we want, where we want to see filter to do And it's, there's, of course there's growth in that plan because everyone likes to see success, but success is not only based on growth, right?
01:20:11
Speaker
That, that's like, that's very corporate and we're not a publicly listed company and, Like what for us, stability and really good product. we The byproduct of that is actually you sell more beer because people like it and they rely on it.
01:20:27
Speaker
um And I think for filter in terms of our personality, still being true to the values we have, making sure our employees are treated fairly and right and and they enjoy coming to work every day and they have clear clear focus on where their career is going to go. And I think that starts to shine yeah in product.
01:20:46
Speaker
You know, people are happy. you're going to make good products. So, mate, I hope that answers your question, but it's um it's a classic, yeah, we want to be here for the long term. So,
01:20:57
Speaker
yeah it's It's a solid way to approach it. Fantastic. Well, we ah we best wrap up. We've got three questions we often like to finish. i feel like we could have wrapped up just then, but we'll still knock them out anyway. So, I mean. Any thanks, people just cut this whole section and just finish there anyway. anyway hey If you could give a bit of a advice to yourself going back in time, you know, what what's something you would have loved to have known when you started out?
01:21:23
Speaker
yeah I can go first. You can go because I haven't thought of it this way. I think this advice hopefully shines through to anyone who has a brewery and they're they're they're kind of on their early journey or, you know, they're trying to figure out strategically where they're going to go.
01:21:40
Speaker
I think the biggest thing in this environment, if I wish I'd kind of look back on at the time and and listen to my gut feeling a bit, is being really clear on what you want to be and what's the most important channel for you between wholesale and retail. So when we started, there was a lot more optimism about the building of brand. There was 450 breweries in Australia. There was a burgeoning market. Now, there's 750 brands.
01:22:10
Speaker
now you knows ah seven hundred and fifty odd brands There's businesses. um and And really, with that, particularly that the way the market's structured from an excise point of view, like that building ah a hospitality and a retail business is actually a really important part of survival in this game.
01:22:31
Speaker
And if you haven't done that right, doesn't matter how what the size is, it's it's it's such an important understanding when you go out.
01:22:42
Speaker
It's not about just making... building a brewery and the people will come anymore. It's about how good is your retail offering and what that whole experience is.
01:22:53
Speaker
Because, you know, people want more than just beer. They want, you know, if they bring their wife, they want a cocktail, they want this, they want good food, they want this. Like it it becomes a hospitality experience.
01:23:04
Speaker
And I think it's it's important for me if I look back I wish that no we did it right and it took time, but I wish in the beginning we were really clear about that because it it probably would have would have allevi alleviated some early heartache and and headache in terms of building the business.
01:23:24
Speaker
Yeah, think that almost answered the second question about advice for someone getting into the business now. Maybe we can skip skip straight to the last one, which is your one hope for beer in Australia in the future.
Growth and Opportunities in Australian Craft Beer Industry
01:23:37
Speaker
ah hope it keeps growing. I hope it keeps growing and hope independent craft beer keeps growing. um Like I said, I just think there's so many great beers that we produce that, you know, are not getting into enough people's hands. So I still think we're really young, you know, as ah as a category where we're still to me in its infancy, you know, and I see a shining light.
01:24:04
Speaker
shining light um design like shot line um for the industry over the next you know three to five years. I think it'll it'll come back really strong. so um yeah Yeah, I guess a lot of the lessons probably learned or forced to be learned over the last few years will prove very handy when things do take a turn for the better, hopefully.
01:24:25
Speaker
Correct. Yeah, I agree. like That's the most important thing, that that that independent beer really gets a fair play. um and we start to see the powers that be really recognize how important it is in the same way they did with the wine industry back in the 1980s, we need to see some support to the level that independent beer gets a leg up and not keep getting pushed down um because it is it is very challenging now.
01:24:57
Speaker
um I think the reality of but building a brewery is that, you know, and building beer and a business in beer. It's hard to grow. It's hard to grow. And also from a wholesale, you've got to be doing some pretty serious volume volume for it to be very profitable, the wholesale side. It's got to be very, very big.
01:25:16
Speaker
And those days are gone because the market is not big. It's 25 million people. Like LA's got more people than Australia does. So, So I hate to rein the context, but the only way we can actually change it is by everyday people out there spending more time getting to know independent beer and drinking more of it.
01:25:37
Speaker
Wonderful. What a perfect way to end the conversation on. Mick, Steph, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us on, guys. Cheers.
01:25:50
Speaker
Are you a supplier to the craft beer industry? Are you looking for more customers? Chat to the team at The Crafty Pint today. Across our website, email newsletters and weekly podcast, we reach more industry decision makers than any other media platform.
01:26:04
Speaker
Whatever your objectives, we can help you create engaging advertising campaigns, podcast segments or ad reads that cut through. Chat to Craig, that's me, today.
01:26:14
Speaker
Hit me up at craig at craftypint.com.
01:26:20
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
01:26:34
Speaker
We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
01:26:50
Speaker
And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink the beer.