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Selling Beer & Indie Beer's Story
465 Plays26 days ago
“If you don't hustle you haemorrhage."
Will Ziebell visited Bright Brewery for their annual Darker Days festival and, while in the High Country town, sat down with their national business development and brand manager Evin Craney.
Evin joined the brewery six years ago following a career in sales that saw him move from bottleshop retail to a repping for number of Victorian breweries, and has since become chair of the Independent Brewers Association (IBA).The first half of the episode focuses on the IBA’s advocacy work both before and after the federal election, while the second half covers Evin’s role at Bright Brewery, the brewery’s recent growth and acquisition of a Melbourne pub, and what it takes to sell beer – and indie beer’s message – to the country’s retailers.
Before getting into the main interview, Will and James discuss the week’s news from Tumut, which they’d visited as part of a podcast-filled road trip. The main topic is UK-based Powder Monkey Group buying Akasha and Wayward, which will become part of an Australian portfolio that already includes Southern Highlands Brewing Company and Willie the Boatman, while we also announce June’s Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month.
*Start of segments:*
* 06:01 – Evin Craney Part 1
* 21:36 – Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month
* 23:52 – Evin Craney Part 2
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Road Trip
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. And where are we chatting today, Will? We're coming to you live from Tumit. Sort of live from Tumit. Recorded from Tumit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00:17
Speaker
um Yeah, we're on a bit of a road trip at the minute. We, I we were in Bright over the weekend for darker days. I left Melbourne at some stupid hour on Monday morning. We've called into...
00:00:29
Speaker
Bridge Road and Voyager, Tumut. And by the time you see this podcast, we'll have done a few recordings in Canberra as well. So if if if you sent me an email in the last three days and had a response, um that's why and we'll get to it at some point.
Brewery Acquisitions Update
00:00:43
Speaker
um But yes, Will, as ah ah this week's news, or guess the biggest news would have come in yesterday, which we were pulling into Tumut.
00:00:51
Speaker
Yes, Powder Monkey has bought Akasha and therefore Wayward because the two of those breweries came together in April this year. And if people aren't aware of the Powder Monkey name, I guess they first had a presence in Australia um when they um merged with Southern Highland Brewing um Co. based so just south of Sydney.
00:01:11
Speaker
um They've since acquired Willie the Boatman um and Willie the Boatman's St. Peter's Taproom have been operating, that I guess, a a joint taproom for the three brands. um Back in the UK, Powder Monkey, which only launched a couple of years ago, have also acquired a number of ah UK brands and breweries and basically on so some yeah a real sort of rapid acquisition ah growth strategy. um We don't know any too much detail about it yet. We're going to have a chat today from Akasha and ah Ben, who's leading all things Australia for Powder Monkey in the next week or two once the sale is finalized.
00:01:45
Speaker
um But
Sydney Brewing Scene and Crafty Crawl
00:01:46
Speaker
yes, it's it's pretty interesting. so It gives them four Sydney-based brands as well as the sort of Powder Monkey Australian um wing that seems like they're going a bit move brewing and brewing operations to Akasha.
00:01:58
Speaker
um So we'll see what that means for for staff um across the businesses as well. um But yes, certainly one of the more um intriguing developments, I would say. Yeah, it would be interesting to know more. um The sales kind of just been agreed to. So we have to wait until it's done before we can talk to the teams. But i think it was the shortest media release we've ever released yesterday.
00:02:18
Speaker
yeah ah Yes, absolutely. But yeah, it's it's an interesting play because of, um I guess, the concentration of New South Wales breweries and what their plan is. and um where we'll all go well and talking of concentration in new southwell breweries we also updated our marrickville and crafty crawl this week and now the brackets moved from alexandra was it alexander think into into Marriottville. So there's now 10 breweries in Marriottville as part of our crawl. We'll link it in the show notes as well.
00:02:49
Speaker
yeah We'll keep this pretty short because we do have to hit the road in a moment.
Guest Introduction: Evan Craney
00:02:52
Speaker
So apologies for that. yeah But yeah, we are traveling. So on straight to today's guest. Evan Craney, who is the, uh, the chair of the Independent Brewers Association.
00:03:02
Speaker
And he's also, he's been with Bright Brewery for, since 2019. He's now the national business development and brand manager. He's given himself a very fancy title there, isn't that That's a very Evan thing to do, I reckon. can Yeah. for yeah indie I was a young, young, young young um guns, young gun of the year. Uh, when it was in the awards held on the gold coast.
00:03:21
Speaker
and we I think we sponsored it that, that year. So I had to, uh, pretend to be this trophy as well. Uh, but he's got a long career sort of in sales, uh, both in retail and out on the road for breweries as well. Um, and then he's really sort of stepped up at brights and you sat down with him for a chat Monday morning. So yeah. Uh, so straight after dark days, which is a brilliant
IBA's Political Engagement and Excise Relief
00:03:39
Speaker
festival. And once again, was it really,
00:03:41
Speaker
Great pleasure to be there. It's a lovely combination of dark beers and music and cold, cold weather. Yeah. You didn't quite make it through to the headliners this year, did You said it got a bit chilly. yeah i Yeah. I had to go somewhere and warm up.
00:03:53
Speaker
i'm I'm a gentle city boy now, having grown up in the country. But yeah, it was really good to talk to Evan about what what the IBA's focus is, I guess, post election and where their priorities are. but then In the second half of the chat, we dive into his story selling beer and also what Bright's been doing. Obviously, they took over pub in Melbourne early in the year and um they've been on a pretty significant growth trajectory for the last half decade, really. Yeah, good stuff. um So yes, that'll be coming up after the break. In the middle of that chat, we'll also and also reveal the latest winner of our Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month.
00:04:26
Speaker
um if If you'd like to nominate your favorite brewery um for a bit of recognition and a zinc booster pack from Bluestone Yeast, then please do jump online at craftypint.com slash Bluestone.
00:04:38
Speaker
Um, and before we get to Evan, I guess we, uh, well, first a quick reminder to do the crafty pints serve the podcast survey, which is out at the moment. it will tell look I'm the worst self publicist going. i always forget but about our business itself, but yeah. Yeah. It will take you mere moments of your time and provide me with a lifetime of joy. So get that in now.
Challenges for Independent Brewers
00:04:58
Speaker
And if you enjoy the podcast, another way to let us know is to like subscribe and leave us a review. Cheers.
00:05:04
Speaker
Cheers.
00:05:12
Speaker
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00:05:22
Speaker
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00:05:37
Speaker
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00:06:02
Speaker
Evan, welcome to the Crafty Point podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me and Bright. What a wonderful town. I know. Well, I mean, thanks for coming here. It's a short trip, I'm sure. Yes. Now, before we get into the brewery itself, I wanted to pick your brains about all things IBA.
00:06:17
Speaker
ah We're post an election. How how the things look at the moment for the Independent Brewers Association? So was this conversation actually with a member on a Saturday night and forgive my slightly croaky voice.
00:06:27
Speaker
Will joined us for a music festival this weekend and I am still paying the penalty for singing my heart out to a childhood band. um but So I was having a conversation with someone here on Saturday as a member and I saying that We're definitely in a position now, I think that is the best footing we've had for quite some time.
00:06:46
Speaker
and Coming into the election, was a lot of noise being made, um obviously within the media, whether it be independent craft beer media or just the mainstream media around beer and um the economy being what it was, it's become a bit of a catch cry. So i think we had an opportunity there and we rode the wave really well. Momentum's difficult and this was a very long campaign. and I think Peter Dutton will be the first one to tell you that um yeah Time was not on his side for that, but we got some really big wins, I think, in terms of excise relief, and pausing of excise, even if it's just draft only.
00:07:17
Speaker
Coming from a position about 12 months ago where there was a lot of ah lot of worry that we just weren't being heard, yeah and there seemed to be a fairly... certain opinion that B didn't need that help. and I think, you know, we've got some great MPs locally, federally, um across all parties, to be honest with you, that members and directors of the IBA have connected with. but just trying to get it to a federal level and actually have cabinet here. It was getting increasingly more difficult. um And then thankfully, I think the the media picked it up and we were able to to run with that. and We ran a really strong campaign and got some really good wins in it. What we liked more, of course, I don't think anyone's going to sit it here and listen to it and not think that we could be in a better position.
00:07:56
Speaker
in saying that you know the Labor government have been given a pretty solid mandate to govern. and As i was again saying to this member on Saturday night, tax reform is not sexy. and no Nobody wants to go to an election with tax reform.
00:08:08
Speaker
and Whilst I think BU in and of itself has got a better narrative to tell people we're going to reform and to make it cheaper. It's also difficult and premise I think to sell. um so throwing the needle is pretty difficult in saying that the Labor government and the Albanese government seem to be a lot more aware of the situation. I think the lobbying we've done have really put us in stead.
00:08:25
Speaker
um It's hard to quantify from an association side of things, but um if you were to sort of compare us to the wine industry, you know, the IBA um is still young, the industry is still young in a lot of ways in comparison comparisons to wine or spirits even in this country.
00:08:39
Speaker
um So, trying to get ourselves to that next level was really what we've worked on. I think we're now, we're a voice in the room. Um, I'm pretty confident, um, based on what we hear, the conversations we're having and the amount that we were able to get our sort of political activations happening over the past 12 months.
00:08:53
Speaker
Um, and the last six months in particular with the election that going forward, there'll be more wins. What they look like, I don't know. Government doesn't move fast. It's the hardest part. You come in and you want to be a bull in a china shop and you realize that, uh, it's just not how it operates, unfortunately.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But I suppose, you know, and I've seen you out taking and MPs to local breweries and sort of explaining to it, like, That's had to happen really from scratch from my perspective, haven't it? Like MPs haven't, they've understood maybe there's breweries in their area, but don't really necessarily fully grasp the employment numbers at times and compared to wineries. if Because if you're a regional MP, you might have a wine region in your seat. So you sort of know everything about it, but breweries are sort of everywhere and a bit more difficult to understand. Yeah, I think the nature of it, and this is something that and was a big learning for me coming in as a director um onto the board. And I found that most of us sort of have the same thing.
00:09:45
Speaker
For anyone within the industry, you at times can forget how much you live and breathe it. So the issues are so prevalent to you because... It's essentially what you're discussing. And we are a small industry, so a tight industry. So I think in saying that, ah conversations tend to be quite insular.
00:09:58
Speaker
And then when you step out of that, you have a conversation with a federal MP or a state MP. They're not hearing that because they've got a million other things going on. It's not the world they live in. And that was one of those things that when I first, from my own experience, and started to engage with MPs and on both ah a Victorian state level and then a federal level where I could, it was really quickly apparent to me that there was a misconception of where we were, what was going on, the size the industry, but also the support of the industry.
00:10:23
Speaker
um Politicians are politicians, and and I do think there's
Economic Impact on Breweries
00:10:27
Speaker
some amazing ones out there, um so I don't want to sort of go on that, you can't trust the politicians thing. But to be honest with you when you have a conversation with them, you see the look in their eyes and you explain the difficulties, it does seem like they actually have a rationalisation and go, oh, I didn't know any of this.
00:10:39
Speaker
and And that became, know, as the economy had shifted and where we were as an industry association, um you know, some of the things that we were capable of doing and we were sort of looking at, you know, where we are currently, what our members need the most from us. We felt like going more political, um not necessarily tying ourselves to a ah party, but in saying that, you know, we need to make this noise was much more of a focus for us. and that's really what it's been it's about getting out there it's about explaining it and that's something that i've talked to a lot of members about is you just need to get out you need to have the conversation because there's a massive misconception and i mean we've battled the misconception i think a lot and crafty point would know this in market since you know james started in terms of what craft beer is what indie beer is
00:11:18
Speaker
you know, what's mainstream beer pretending to be indie beer, but these are conversations we we have. Then you take that out and then, you know, talking to a federal MP and explaining to them the level of employment, ah you know, what's the what's the annual GDP basically that we're bringing in, like what is the what is the financial benefit to the country for beer?
00:11:35
Speaker
And then when you start throwing these numbers out, and you we get quantifiable data and we actually have numbers to provide because again, it's a young industry. these are only more recent things that we've been able to get access to or had the support to find. um Then you start to turn that wheel a little bit faster. But, you know, wine, as i said before, it's um it's had so long to establish itself and it's done a really good job of working together.
00:11:55
Speaker
and I think in my time in beer, it's a startup industry. So what ends up happening is you have owners start businesses, they're usually a brewer as well, trying to get them to become a politically motivated person is a really difficult job, right?
00:12:07
Speaker
And then trying to have them connect to other breweries and create a bit of a campaign to go out and say, let's make some change. It's just not feasible. And that's where the IBA's importance, I think, comes in, because that's realistically what we're meant to do.
00:12:17
Speaker
We're meant to take what needs to be said, that these small businesses themselves just don't have the capacity. And and obviously, we we ask our members to get involved. And there's a level of reliance we have. And I, you know, i've I've been on many things in the past year, just shouting that there's power in numbers. And, um, that's the truth and the facts.
00:12:33
Speaker
The more of us that speak and the more we can engage, the higher we'll get, or the more we're going to be listened to. So. yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it does seem like a challenge at the moment. yet Obviously the IBA are losing members, whether it's because breweries are closing, losing finances because production size is down. So yeah the members are giving that money or people are deciding that they just can't afford it. like yeah They can't afford a membership, but it kind of seems like that.
00:12:56
Speaker
the more that do that, you sort of get quieter and quieter in a way, don't you? And kind of wonder if those breweries are necessarily shouting as as much as they could. it's It's tricky and, you know, it doesn't, it's not lost in ah the IPA, the directors or the exec team that, um,
00:13:12
Speaker
the the members are struggling and obviously that's really what we focused on in terms of why we've changed some of our thinking and and maybe our workflow. and You know, it's sort of twofold. it's It's how much resource and we have, but then it's also what's bang for buck, what do members need to see. And um honestly, it's it's a pretty difficult remit in some days. And um we've got massive differences between members. You know, you've got members that are brewing a very small amount and they're really focusing on local distribution or just their tap room to breweries that are, you know, doing tens of millions of leaders and they are focusing on trying to be a challenger brand.
00:13:42
Speaker
in a market that is pretty unfair a lot of the time, all the time really. and So, you know it's not lost in us the difficulties and and seeing members go is always a shame. And um you know we have a lot of ways that we try and help and support, and but at end the end of the if you're cutting costs because you need to, um you know that's that's just business. And we understand that. We hope that we can provide services for you anyway, and that we can be helpful and that you'll come back when times are better.
00:14:08
Speaker
And obviously, you know yeah we've gone through an economic downturn record VAs, but also volumes aren't what they were during COVID. So you've got a lot of breweries that have grown and and as part of our membership structure, it's, you know, the more you brew, essentially the more you pay. So it's it's trying to support the little ones, the bigger guys really help fund the little ones because
IBA's Strategic Focus
00:14:26
Speaker
we tried a lot less for the the less that you brew. and But as they start to drop down in volume because the market's not there as much anymore, obviously that has an impact on us.
00:14:34
Speaker
So it's It's hard and you know, we never want to see anyone go and obviously every dollar out of our pocket is a dollar we don't have to spend. And, um, you know, and we have an exec team. We have, uh, we have three amazing staff, an incredible CEO in Kylie, who honestly, I don't think there's been a second of the last couple hasn't worked. Um,
00:14:52
Speaker
It's just, you know, the insanity and the level that she runs at, I don't think people could ever really understand. and But then everyone else within the IBA, we are all, ah we're all donating our time, essentially. You know, there's nothing that comes from this, from a financial position. So this is directors in particular for us, you know, we're doing this because we love it. We want to see it going forward. And I know for myself, you know, this has been, for me, a way that I want to try and give back to the industry that's been really good to me and has allowed me to, you know, ah have a living and and support a family.
00:15:20
Speaker
um We hope times get better. I think times are getting better. Um, yeah, it's been a rough couple of years for sure, but, um, you know, we're hoping or on the other side of that hill at some point this year, I guess.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah. And one of the thorniest seems to be that, well, it's going up to a $500,000 excise limit. Um, you know, a lot of breweries want to seem to be like, well, can't that just keep going up with inflation and that's fine. Is that, is that fair to say that there is a bit of a divide at the moment with those smaller breweries who are like, we were just happy to say,
00:15:48
Speaker
ah below x size compared to maybe someone of bright size it's It's really tricky. And that, again, that goes right back to sort of that thread the needle where you've got disparity between members. And and I don't, it's unique to the taxation system that we have in place in this country that that's there. So, um, I that's a good thing.
00:16:05
Speaker
obviously we understand the smaller members that are you know exercise doesn't seem the battle they're having i guess you know what we say to them is you don't want to be a decision that if you can get there if business being successful that you're starting to make decisions that don't allow you to go past that because financially it's irresponsible and at the end of the day we want economic growth we want to go to support industry and the more beer we can make the more beer we can sell the better we're going to be for it.
00:16:24
Speaker
and But yeah, it's it's it's really tricky um because you've got members that are they're living different values. They have different preferences. um yeah Beer is a very interesting little category in terms of what everyone makes. you know for I work for Bright Brewery.
00:16:40
Speaker
We're you know more commercial in sort of that core range. And then we have you know a pretty beefy limited release range. But you know we make beer that we think a practical decision is to go to market because you know we are past XI's.
00:16:51
Speaker
we have a big production facility we have to pay off and there are limitations to us going under cap wouldn't actually make sense for us anymore but then i also understand that there are breweries within the region uh in the northeast that are making really high quality specialty product they probably isn't going to have mass market appeal excess probably isn't an issue for them because they're they're happy to run on a smaller volume And it's great because it allows us to have all of this interesting product in in beer and allows us to be such an individual category.
00:17:17
Speaker
um But to try and yeah balance the scales between what both need, the IBA will always be in that position. um What we try and do is take stock of it on the board of directors.
00:17:28
Speaker
We make decisions. It's a to democratically elected process. um You know, all members have been brought on. by other members and and we have a variety of bands. You know, we've got small, medium and large within the group and that helps essentially have a conversation of, well, I know what we need, but what does, you know, another brewery that might be smaller or might be larger than us and and how does that interact and is there ill effects and, um you know, flow on effects are difficult as well because you might pull one string and you might unravel something else without realising and that's one of the things that we're really considerate about every time, especially from a political situation, we're asked to
00:18:02
Speaker
sign on or adopt something or support something, and there's a lot of debate and to make sure that what we do doesn't have an ill effect to someone else, or if it's going to make some transitions or some changes, that the long term value of it will support members.
00:18:15
Speaker
But um again, you know, it's it's it's a different sort of little industry we have here and we're just trying what we can. Yeah. Great. and And is there anything, you know, new financial year or ahead of the next election, which is probably three years away. Uh, Labor's probably going to be in after then anyway, judging by the size of their majority, but you know, is there anything that you really think the RBA is focused on in particular at the moment or? Well, listen, um in over the next few months, there'll be a member survey that comes out. and We like to do that annually just to gauge the industry and see who where everyone is. and We do take member feedback directly. So, you know, for IBA members that are listening to that, genuinely, you know, it's a quick survey. I know everything takes time and and inboxes get flooded really quickly. But yeah the value to that is it's amountable from the sense that um we we do take that feedback. And once we have that feedback, we then we –
00:19:04
Speaker
We take our strategy day. We have a 10-year roadmap that was built about five years ago um for our long-term projections. And we sort of use that to go okay, well, this is where we saw the industry going or where industry to But here's
Evan Craney's Career Journey
00:19:15
Speaker
what members are telling us. Here's their clear focus. And we're given, much like the Labor government, clear mandate, I guess, in the sense of here are the major things you want to work on. So and that's something is a as a board. and We take...
00:19:27
Speaker
a lot of work from and a lot of planning from. Over the next 12 months, you know, without sort of knowing where the members will sort of push us. and I think we've got a really great system in this stage and we've got momentum politically, and which will mean continuing in that. And um I think I've probably done this on a Crafty Pant article at some point um a few months ago and I was at High Country Hop, a really awesome festival up here in the northeast, Thurbo Bridge Road, where James is willing enough to give me a microphone, I think, against his ah his own better judgment. But I said to the group there, there's power in numbers. I mentioned it just before.
00:19:58
Speaker
I asked members of the IBA and even punters that are listening to the podcast, like if this is something that matters to you, politicians work for you. And I think that can be lost track of. I know how hard sometimes it is to get a meeting with a politician, but I also know that you are legally allowed to email them as much as you like until maybe the police step in if you do you do some other things. Depends on what you say. Depends on what you say. But genuinely seek the meeting, have the conversation, push the narrative. um They've got to, like, again, but depending on where you are, there might have a million other things going on.
00:20:26
Speaker
But if we're not a voice in the room, no one's going to hear us. And the more we talk and the more of us that are talking, the louder we're going to be and the more we're going to be heard. We experienced that this year. We saw that. We saw momentum. We saw things moving.
00:20:37
Speaker
um So I think of the next 12 months, it'll be continuing engagement with members, asking them to support us. um And again, just sort of taking that feedback and seeing where we are. It's been an interesting couple of years. You know, we've we've gone through a pandemic, then we've hit an economic downturn.
00:20:51
Speaker
There's been such a variation of where the industry is from ah business, but also consumers and trying to get understanding of the playing field, i think is going to be really important for us this year post-election. And um I'm confident that we're on the right track. and I know it's hard for maybe some members to hear that and partners to hear that because they're not seeing things happen maybe as fast as they want. um Personally, I feel the same things aren't moving as fast as they want. It's not from lack of trying. It's not from the IBA not putting the effort in. It's purely just the wheels of Canberra seem to move slowly. Canberra is really cold.
00:21:21
Speaker
So maybe they just don't move that fast there. I don't know, but we are working towards progress and I think progress is happening. Great. Okay. Fantastic. Evan, let's take a quick break and then talk about Bright. Sweet. Cheers.
00:21:36
Speaker
Hello, welcome to another Bluestone Yeast Brewery of the Month. ah Will, you have a a sort of honorable mention to start with from WA, I believe. Yes, straight out of WA. This person wanted to nominate Freestyle Brewing for their quality in the range of styles that just get better and better.
00:21:52
Speaker
and this even though they're a super small brewery and this person also wanted to particularly shout out nick minute double ah hazy which was an amazing beer very very down with the kids act that kind of name is yeah what your style name everything they've got it freestyle i've only tried ah a couple of their beers over the years but they right right from the off, pushing that hazy IPA, hazy sort of space and clearly kicking goals.
00:22:15
Speaker
So yes, congratulations to the team at Freestyle Brewing. um But Will, who's our our winner of the Brewery of the Month title ah for June. So Rachel wanted to shout out a little unknown brewery called Young Henry's. Okay. You may not have heard of them, but they actually brew in the inner west of Sydney for the moment anyway. They may have to move, people will have seen the news.
00:22:36
Speaker
But yeah, what What Rachel wanted to say is that they really love Young Henry's and what particularly what they've done recently with Young Care charity. So Young Care is a national not for promit that works with young people experiencing disability to sort of help them live with more freedom, dignity and care. It's a really important charity.
00:22:53
Speaker
And Young Henry's, they collaborated on a special beer with a Young Care resident and released it It's called Brian's Brew and all proceeds went to the charity. So, um, yeah, very special, very special moment from Young Henry's. Very worthy winners. So, so and so what do they win other other than the, you know, the acknowledgement and the the glory of bit being named and shouted out on our podcast, what do what do they win?
00:23:15
Speaker
So thanks to Bluestone yeast, Young Henry's will get their hands on some Zinc Booster, which is a new product from Bluestone. ah It's a cold side addition of sterile zinc, which replaces the zinc lost in the boil. And as we all know, zinc is essential for optimal yeast health and performance. And if you didn't know, you do now. um That's great. there Thanks for the nomination there. yeah we'll We're always looking for more nominations, especially celebrating and great sort of of projects like this one.
00:23:40
Speaker
So jump online at craftypint.com slash bluestone and we're back with another winner in a month's time. Cheers. Now back to the show.
00:23:53
Speaker
Welcome back, Evan. Tell me about Bright Brewery. First of all, I'd like to know a little bit about your relationship with them. You've been here six years. yeah ah how How long were you repping before that?
00:24:04
Speaker
ah So i've I was repping about six years prior to that.
Bright Brewery's Growth and Strategy
00:24:08
Speaker
yeah So I was really lucky to get in early, pretty young. like I started repping when was 21. And which yeah have you worked in bars or bottle shops before them? Worked in bars and and and bottle shops. um I was discovered in a bottle shop by James of the Crafty Pine, actually. Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
he'll He'll still tell you about my days back in Lillardale in a little retail bottle shop. um Sort of stumbled into beer. I'd been a hospital kid ah since about 15. For legal reasons, I'll put a disclaimer on this, but I think I poured my first pint at an Irish pub when I was like six. My dad taught me how to pour his Guinness properly.
00:24:38
Speaker
So I've always sort of been around it, adjacent to it. don't know if I realised how much my life was on that track unknowingly for quite some time. And then finished high school, which was working in hospitality, was working some really good restaurants, and but sort of saw that the lifestyle probably wasn't really there for me as much anymore, you know, working till about 3am and um just sort of felt like yeah I wasn't capitalising and I was young and I just wanted to do something different. So Uh, ironically, I went back to a bottle shop and a lot of people told me don't do that. It's a really bad decision, but, uh, they were willing to pay me slightly more money and let me take nights off. So I was like, great.
00:25:12
Speaker
Um, couple weeks in, uh, Jeff Hanson, uh, industry storewood from, uh, from Melbourne happened to stumble upon our little store while he was working for a company called Phoenix beverages. He built Phoenix in Melbourne. Yeah. and And just one of the best portfolios of beer, especially in the ah the late 2000s. So yeah, just beer was interesting. I think within about 10 to 12 months, we'd sort of turn that store into a ah ah little location that had you know maybe 20 beers on offer to about 600. So we were really going hard on it. and Um, the biggest craft beer store in the, uh, east side of Melbourne, um, just, and I fell in love with it. I mean, that was the, don't want say the glory age, but it was that that fun period of time where beer was really starting to hit its stride and innovation was there. And, and everything was so new and, and particularly with like Phoenix and stuff that would bring breweries in there, you'd sort of read about on the internet. So it was really a different, yeah. It was like everything was, it was all discovery at the time. I think that's the way to put it. Like, you know, it was all new, as you said, but it was just, it was consistent. was constant and brews were popping up. And I think, you know, we were just starting to realize it was really fun. So from there um was offered ah a role to come in um as a rep and work for a business called Heron Tower. i think it's called Heron Beverages now, a great sort of import business that was doing some domestic things. So selling nail brewing from WA was one of the big things when I started. um
00:26:30
Speaker
Also, so Rodenbuck and Boone, I remember selling Rodenbach in 2013 and people were like, what is this? I think someone once said, is this a stomach bile on a can? And then I'll shout out to the Benz at Carwin Sellers because think they were the first ones to buy a pallet off me in 2014. And they probably just took all the rest of the country buy as well. To be honest with you, the tide turned and then all of a sudden I think, you know, sour beer became the cool thing. And so I kind of got to ride a really interesting bit of momentum selling a really old brand in a new market that was so distinctly different.
00:27:02
Speaker
And then from there sort of obviously grew back in the domestic scene, and was able to to join up with some startup and some established breweries on the road in Melbourne. And then 2019, I was able to I had a little sabbatical, um it' sort of, you know, done a fair few years on the road, um was sort of wondering when where I'd go next and a role for Bright popped up and just sort of knew straight away, I was like, that's what I want and and pressured my my boss who ended up employing me pretty heavily ah via email to get an interview. and There was just something about this place I'd visited before. and i don't know why, but I felt that but real alineation to it. And um yeah, I fought really hard for And then sort of the rest is history, I guess. I joined here in April of 2019 and haven't looked back.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. And, um, you know, Bright was one of those breweries that probably in those early Heron days, the beers were maybe popping up a little bit and and you could get stubborn rush and had a sort of a bit of a cult following behind it. No beer festival yet, but yeah it got there, but then it disappeared from Melbourne a little because the pilot brewery, oh, the brewery here got so busy. i yeah And then when you came on was after the production brewery coming in and that, that renewed, I guess, focus on Melbourne, right?
00:28:07
Speaker
So yeah, so the room we're actually sitting in now is the original brew house. So there was a pretty small kit and essentially the the venue to which we're also sitting in, um the volume the beer was making was essentially just going through our own doors, which is great. It was really good for business, but that was the reason for anyone who remembers that sort of timeline and and maybe some bright beers flowing into Melbourne.
00:28:25
Speaker
ah There just wasn't enough volume. And obviously logistically, we're we're not in the easiest place to come and go from. Sort of one way in, one way out, it's a fair distance. So I think when we looked at it at the time, it just wasn't practical. yeah In 2017, essentially, the team here saw an opportunity for wholesale, i had a really strong business in the venue side of things. The bright brand was strong and felt like it could grow bigger.
00:28:46
Speaker
So decided to buy an old dairy in Bright, um renovate it, turn it into a really nice production facility, easily the best brewery that I've ever worked in. um You tell this one was designed by engineers and designers, not by um brewers ah or people on a hamstring. and But yeah, then I came in early 2019, wholesale had sort of just started developing. It was still pretty new and finding its feet. And it's a business that had been going at that stage for 14 years. and The systems of processes were obviously really driven around the venue side of the hospitality side of things. so it was fortunate for me to come in, you know, better part, I guess there are decades of experience within the industry, um, from both sides to be able to drive that.
00:29:28
Speaker
Um, and you know, a lot changed since then. I, when I started 2019, we were in bottles still, um, which seems crazy to me that we ever sold bottles. Uh, you know, just our packaging was very different, uh, very small seasonal program, just, uh,
00:29:45
Speaker
a business that was going to establish itself. And we did really well for that sort of first, I'd say 12 months at the beginning in terms of just growing the brand. And one of the biggest difficulties we had, I think, was being an established brand that people knew but didn't expect to buy outside of Bright. Yeah. Meant that it was difficult for us to get a bit of wholesale traction. Actually sort of worked against us, the history, because the assumption was you couldn't get it, so you didn't search for it. um So it's breaking down that wall and, of course,
00:30:08
Speaker
we get to 2020 and you know the world shuts down but um i've often said that was sort of like the the much needed kick for us a little bit of steroids uh into the system to make some changes i think we all sort of knew we would in time and in terms of change our product lineup uh change our packaging went to cans but also just changed how we approached I think everything as well. And, um, since then we've grown every year annually in our volume and our sales, which is awesome. And, um, I think we're in the best position we've ever been now in 2025. So yeah. Yeah. And you went into the, what couple of like releases a month potentially, or well at least one a month new releases. And you seem to be one of the few potentially breweries who are still doing that.
00:30:45
Speaker
You haven't really slowed down in that, even though a lot of pullbacks since COVID. Yeah. It's funny. Like, I don't think we ever positioned ourselves as to be a prolific limited release brewery. Um, Personally, from my side of things, i really enjoy the limited release side of things. I'm still a beer nerd at heart. So and for me, I get a lot of pleasure out of it.
00:31:01
Speaker
ah But in saying that, I think, you know, beer is creative and we've got a really creative team. And um as much as, you know, I had brewer Lewis will tell you he wants to make lager every day. He'd like to make a bunch of lagers, not the same one. I saw him yesterday yesterday and he said the only thing he wants to do is he wants to go on a lager tour of the world. Yeah.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah. He loves a lager, which is great because it's, you know, we're making banging ones there. Our lager this year was voted best in the country. The Gab's out is 100. So there's my plug. and But ah yeah, we... During COVID everyone did it, right? Like that was part of it.
00:31:30
Speaker
and We were really quick to pivot into Cairns at COVID online, limited releases. You know, we're trying to find ways to get the product out there. um For those that don't know or or did know and did see me on the road for the better part of the year, I was doing home delivery six or seven days a week during lockdowns, trying to dodge curfews and doing growler fills at 4am in a um cold warehouse in Mulgrave to make sure you had fresh beer that day.
00:31:53
Speaker
um And that was all really just a about us trying to break into the market. We felt like, you know, limited releases would allow us to make a bit of noise, obviously flex a bit of muscle um in terms of what we could do, but we had to break some perceptions, I think, of who we were. And then post that, we've just got a really nice system now. So and think at a minimum, we do about 35 releases a year that are small or or we classify limited on top of our core range.
00:32:15
Speaker
um We have a system here where it's two a month that we we try and keep that pretty efficient. and Then every month it's like five because someone got excited and had an idea and then we send off for a can design and we think that's really cool and then all of a sudden we're like, ah okay, we've got more beer again. um But it's working really well for us. um It's allowed us, I think, to, again, as I said, change some perceptions of what we do um and maybe find a little bit of who we are and in that as well.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah. And, and where's it at now? Because you have reps in other cities as well, outside of Melbourne. So we, we do, we have a lot of partners, distribution partners. So that's a big thing that we've tried to do. The East coast is obviously our ah major part. Australia's a big country.
00:32:52
Speaker
Um, so at the moment, Victoria is our biggest base. Um, and then, you know, from there it's sort of ACT, uh, South Wales is really strong for us. We've got incredible partners in Queensland and we actually do a a lot down in Tasmania
Expansion and Market Integration
00:33:03
Speaker
too.
00:33:03
Speaker
Um, I don't know whether or not that's a little bit, again, of the self-serving nature of being in a brewery and and maybe having a bit of a passion job, but I've always been a big fan of the Tasmanian scene and the Brisbane scene, actually. The Hobart and and Brisbane scenes have always been really good. And I felt and that, especially maybe off the mainland, we get to Tassie, there wasn't always the focus for mainland breweries to go down there. And ah when I would do a sales trip down there, I always felt like there was a lot of appreciation. and They loved the product, but they just weren't getting it. and as someone who now lives in regional Victoria, who doesn't always get the product. um You know, it's really fun when someone does make the effort to try and get product down. So um yeah, we've been really good. We were pseudo national in the sense that it sort of ebbs and flows. We do send stock over to WA.
00:33:43
Speaker
um My apologies is South Australia. We do struggle to sort of get things in there. and But, uh, yeah, we know it's between here. It's sort of just skips. Yeah. Yeah. someone's in South Australia that, uh, you know, wants to take it on great. Um, I've been meaning to do it myself for a while, but I've got two small kids. I don't think my wife wants me to traveling to Adelaide with beers in the bag. So yeah.
00:34:03
Speaker
Okay, cool. And obviously the start of the year, you took over a pub in Melbourne. Yes. PAs or Prince Alfred. Prince Alfred. I'm used to the yeah initialism. because That's how we say it. Yeah. I used to drink there at uni, but what was the thinking there? I mean, it's, you've kind of taken over an old building and kept it with its history, yeah but also tried to make it, brightify it a little bit, I guess. like Yeah. Like why that approach? So, um, yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
Obviously, like every brewery, we've really been assessing the market the past couple of years and looking at where our strengths are and where our opportunities are. and This business is founded by the Branded family, um Scott and his wife Fiona, and they built a really great ah hospitality business. I mean, the venue we're sitting in now is is a testament to that.
00:34:43
Speaker
um We had for years considered it, I think even before it sort of became as part of the the natural brewery lexicon of let's get more venues. It was always something that sort of permeated in the background.
00:34:54
Speaker
and And then as time went on, we we obviously saw the market's hard. and You know, we're really fortunate we've been able to grow, but and it's a lot of hustle, it's lot hard work. And to be able to own your own taps is obviously a really beneficial part of the business. And um we saw other breweries doing it and thought, you know, that's something we should really assess. and And I guess we've sort of come at it maybe from a different model. and We wanted to look at what was available to us first and make the decisions based on what there was, a bit of a fact-finding mission.
00:35:21
Speaker
I don't think any of us thought we'd take a uni pub. um But when the opportunity came up, i remember we we drove down to Melbourne and we did the tour and we just thought, this is such an historical building. And as a brand, you know we really pride ourselves on authenticity and sort of that value and something a little bit different. And we felt like PAs, we had an opportunity to take on something that mattered, I think more than just like sort of an empty warehouse. We could we could fit out and put beer taps in. And then when it came to the servicing side and the branding side,
00:35:49
Speaker
We spoke to the staff that were there and we wanted to really integrate in. We didn't want to just slap our name on it and be like, right, Carlton. We didn't think that was appropriate. So um with PAs, it's all been about the heritage. You know, it's a 99 year old pub.
Market Challenges and Consumer Engagement
00:36:03
Speaker
It's going to be a hundred next year. To try and change that now is insane to us. um It's in Carlton. want to give it to locals. And like yourself, I mean, you know, you have stories of drinking there. It happens every day. Someone tells me a story about drinking there. My brothers went to Melbourne Uni. They've got stories about drinking there. I think my brother's a lecturer at Melbourne Uni the moment. and Probably he's still drinking there. Probably angry. He never got my staff discount. and But yeah, we wanted to do that and we wanted to bring Brighton to Melbourne, but um do it in ah an organic way, an authentic way. um
00:36:33
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of appetite to continue doing that. I think PAs will evolve still over the next 12 months. um but We, again, we didn't want to come in and shake it up too much. So we, we've changed a few things. I think we, we sort of put our, our name to it and, um, put our product through there and and sort of taking the things that we felt we could and build upon and maybe just improve on. Um, but with an eye to let it be itself for a little while, where we can make sure that we don't, we didn't want to come in and ruin someone's favorite pub. It's probably the easiest way to do it, right? Like we've all had someone buy a pub that we love and just like, I'm never going back there again. And this sucks.
00:37:03
Speaker
We did not want to be that brand. Um, so it's, it's really been focused on that. Yeah, it's a fair uni pubs are fascinating though, because obviously the people move on yeah at a certain attrition rate that's different to locals. So it's very interesting um ah approach you can have as well. I think.
00:37:17
Speaker
ah You know, I said this, I think in a media release that this is an opportunity for us also to speak to a new generation of consumers. Everybody's trying to figure out how to talk to the youth. and and You know, that's, that's hard, but to be next door to uni and then sort of know that, okay, well, they're probably going to come in here anyway. and it's it's It's oddly exciting, I think, at times to be like, okay, well, this might be the first time they drink craft beer. And they're going to come have it here. So we get that first point of entry with them.
00:37:43
Speaker
But also, you know, they do move on, but it's Carlton. You know, it's such a hotbed for tourism, but hospitality and and locals as well. So, you know, we got we have them. They might move out of Melbourne Uni, but they'll probably move into a share house later.
00:38:00
Speaker
and Brunswick. and So they're still probably coming to Carlton and drink. You get faculty members, you've got hospitality staff in the area, you've got hospital hospital staff in the area as well. So um it's a real big cross section. It is quite funny to look at when you go in the pub sometimes be like, that's a fresh 18 year old group coming in here because we have a DJ on tonight um and we're doing some sort of shot special, which is not what we do here in Bright. and But in the same stage, you know, we've got people that are more mature with professional careers that are drinking really high quality product and eating, you know, a steak and it's it's It's an interesting dichotomy when you sort of have both of those in the space and we've been mindful to try and give both of those a voice in a space within the business. um Again, why we didn't want to change it.
00:38:38
Speaker
It's always sort of been that way. um And we just wanted to make sure that we honored that in a lot of ways. Yeah. Okay. Right. And um what what, you know, you have been in the market for a long time, whether with your IBA or bright hat on, what what's your sense of things at the moment?
Future of Indie Beer Industry
00:38:53
Speaker
I christened this ah brought about two years ago, if you don't hustle your hemorrhage, with sort of the feeling, especially as a road salesperson, ah it's it's never been harder in in one sense in terms of, um you know, people are counting the dollars in their pockets a lot differently than that they have been in my experience from my time the industry. So,
00:39:12
Speaker
trying to get that from trying to get people to spend their money with you you know you've got to provide that and i think uh the industry's never been a better position quality wise too so really competitive you know those early days those discovery days i think we can all admit like some beers are great and some beers weren't great but that was part of the process as we were learning and now it's not just good enough to make good beer like the beer's got to be great like I think our industry has stepped up to a space where we should be, we should be looked at globally as a leader. I actually saw a post a couple of weeks ago from ah a brewery um over in America. It was coming out the Australian beer scene. And this comment was, you know, that 10 years behind. And I said, we're not 10 years behind anymore.
00:39:51
Speaker
I was in the States in 2019. I think you're behind us at this point. Learn to carbonate. um But, you know, we're just at that space. So i think the products at the best. The consumers are actually the most willing to purchase now as well. I mean, the time has really shifted.
00:40:06
Speaker
um Consumers sentiment towards category I think has never been better. and I take it anecdotally from my position in life, but and I've got Eastern European in-laws that had never seen a craft beer in their life.
00:40:18
Speaker
When I first started um dating my now wife, VB was the drink of choice in the house. um I never tried to push anything on them. They knew what i did for a living, but I, you know, it was a nice supply of free beer would come in the home, but VB was always consumed.
00:40:31
Speaker
And now I've got, you know, my mother-in-law who's in her mid 50s drinking double IPAs of her own accord. and she did She grew up in a village on the other side of the world. We're here. we've We've now made that jump.
00:40:42
Speaker
um But I think, you know, going back to the IBA side of things too, there's a lot of difficulty within the market in terms of what we have access to. That's that's the issue still. You're looking at 95% Tapper only across two major players from a different country that, you know, it's their legally right to supposedly. and i think there's some questions that we could post on that with the ACCC.
00:41:03
Speaker
and But that's really difficult for breweries to to grow because the space is minimised and you've got consumers obviously being mindful of their spend. So I do think we've... and i'm and not ah I'm not an economist, so please do not, you know, to fix your interest rates or anything with me after this. From what we're seeing from the general vibe, and I probably take it more from a Victorian sense because that's really where we we drive a our information from as a brand.
00:41:25
Speaker
um Things are getting better. Public can seem a little bit better. um I know we're in winter, so that might change in a couple of weeks. It doesn't tend to be a great period of time for sales. and for pubs, but um from what we're seeing, the mood has shifted a little bit. and you know there The reduction in interest rates, things of that nature are positive. and We look to, you know, I've made the comment yeah about American beer and us sort of being ahead of them, I think, you know, from a products, uh, quality standpoint, but I look at what they've done and from their Brewers Association side of things, and they've had 40 or so years and, um, they talk about consolidations. They essentially, if you look at what they went through, we're just going through our first rationalization of an industry and it's, it's really sad, but, um, what they'll tell you is after that you, you spike again, and
00:42:11
Speaker
So I'm confident we're going to go up again. And that's the nature of this industry and just industries in general. So in 12 months, we might be having a different conversation. Who knows? It's been a pretty crazy five years. I think every day, if any of us have Instagram or X or Facebook, we see Trump doing something that might change the global stage. But I do think realistically, we're starting to come out of the woods a little bit on it. and And those brews that are to hold strong, we'll see that that hopefully lightens a little bit. Um, I have been wrong in the past though, so please don't quote me too, too much on that one. Well, yeah you're um you're on record. I am on record. Yeah. So that's why i'm just putting the little asterisk there. Yeah.
00:42:47
Speaker
Great. Okay. Evan. Um, what about if you, if someone was coming in to do sales at the moment, would there be any advice or something you wish they knew? um yeah, you know, whether it's now or, uh, ever, I think anyone that wants getting to get sales, i yeah They'll tell you you have ah have a thick skin. You've got to have a thick skin. um You've got to understand as well. I think, you know, one of the things that we really take here is the approach of understanding what's happening in the business we're trying to sell to.
00:43:14
Speaker
um It's really easy to go in there with all of the justification of a great product and and all great service, things like that. But if you don't understand what a retailer or publican is going through, you're not working with them. yeah you are I often say that our sales team work for everyone else but us, they just sell our product.
00:43:30
Speaker
Like their job is to work for the public and to work for the retailers, to give them something that they can help their businesses because we need that business that flourish for us to be able to sell. um So I think it's that, and be good with isolation. and I've been told off by this from brewery owners in the past, but the first thing I'll tell anybody that's getting into sales, especially is beer sales.
00:43:50
Speaker
First couple months are pretty rough. You're sitting in a car alone a lot of the time. If you haven't got relationships, you tend to have some pretty quick, not always friendly conversations. And and I think that's a bit of a...
00:44:01
Speaker
a bit of a surprise. and But then, you know, even if you're just trying to break in, I think it's get involved. Like yeah everyone's in different life stages. So depending what that looks like for you, but if you can jump on, you can jump to a venue and get on the bar staff, or you can become part of a road crew that's maybe doing tastings or just get yourself known. i think um more often than not, what we look for are people that are really passionate, that care, um who understand the mission a little bit as well.
00:44:26
Speaker
um But putting your best foot forward, this isn't a suit and tie industry. um I've often been mocked for my amount of time I spent in thongs and shorts. um My brother has has to go to work in a suit and I often go to work in a t-shirt.
00:44:39
Speaker
and But that was the choice I made. And, and you know, but that's meant that um you had to sort of do it a little bit differently. And I think it's connecting with the business as a character of the industry. If you're really passionate about trying to get into it, you know, that's my advice.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. And do you have one wish or hope for indie beer? I mean, i just want to see us flourish, right? Like, um, i would love to see, ACCC take some action. um I don't think it's that hard to look at it and say this isn't an equitable playing field. We're sort of playing with the cards stacked against us a little bit. and So we'd love to see some shift there, just opening of that opportunity for us. As I said, beers have been better bees' been better. I want to see it in more places.
00:45:19
Speaker
I want to be able to go to a country pub, and whether it's in the northeast of Victoria and I'm getting Bright Brewery or Bridge Road or King River. or any incredible beer here, but I'd love to go to a you know a country pub in the middle of nowhere in different state and find you know crazy double IPAs or something sour or some of that because you know maybe 10 years ago that was wishful thinking, but um consumers want to try things. And even if it's just a really banging lager,
00:45:42
Speaker
um we're at that stage now where we can provide that. um But we need the market to allow us and and we need the you know the publicans and the retailers to be allowed to do it as well. So my wish IndieBeer is we keep growing, we get some change, we get some real reform. um I'm confident I'm working towards it along with ah an amazing team at the IBA. and So, you know, it's all systems go. We're never going to stop till we get
Supporting Crafty Pine Podcast
00:46:04
Speaker
it.
00:46:04
Speaker
um But that's really my wish. Fantastic, Evan. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, Will.
00:46:12
Speaker
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00:46:26
Speaker
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00:46:45
Speaker
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00:47:04
Speaker
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00:47:20
Speaker
And until next time, drink good beer.