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Seven Sheds & Countless Stories
490 Plays29 days ago
“I think Seven Sheds was a bit like the Velvet Underground. It’s been said about the Velvet Underground that they didn’t sell many records, but every second person who bought a record went off and started their own band. And I think we were a bit influential… to our own detriment.”
Less than a year on from the first episode of The Crafty Pint Podcast, we’ve reached our 50th show, and mark the occasion with suitably distinguished guests.
While many who first discovered craft beer in recent years may never have encountered Seven Sheds, or indeed co-founder and head brewer Willie Simpson, those who have enjoyed their beers or read Willie’s words will be well aware of the vital role he played in bringing beer – and respect for it – to a wider audience.
A few weeks ago, Willie and partner Catherine Stark bade farewell to cellar door customers for the last time, bringing to a close 17 years of brewing and pouring at their home in Railton, all while helping build the region’s tourism infrastructure.
They joined us for a broad-ranging chat that covers Willie’s homebrewing days in Sydney and lengthy career as a freelance drinks writer, their decision to open a tiny residential brewery, meadery, hop garden and cellar door in Railton, the bureaucracy crushing small businesses, brewing beers with home-smoked peat bought from a guy called Pete, the beauty of open fermenters, the toilet tax and more.
The start of the episode sees Will and James discussing the week’s news, although once again doing so a few hours before we could confirm Rocky Ridge were the buyers of Fox Friday’s Perth outpost.
In non-Mountain Culture-related news, there was our Brew & A with Tim Howard – the head brewer at double AIBA trophy-winners Merino Brewery, a feature on the man behind the beers at Bicheno Brewing on the Tasmanian East Coast, and a heads-up for three upcoming Crafty Pint events at BentSpoke, KAIJU! and Slipstream, each with discounts for our beer club members.
We reveal the identity of the latest “good beer citizen” in our Have You Done A Rallings? campaign and, given we’ve racked up 50 episodes, we’re also keen for feedback from listeners / viewers and have launched a survey so you can tell us what you think of the show.
Start of segments:
- 10:41 – Willie & Catherine Part 1
- 36:19 – Have You Done A Rallings?
- 38:32 – Willie & Catherine Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Mountain Culture Updates
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint Podcast. I'm Will. I'm James. And welcome to another weekly update on what Mountain Culture is either buying or selling. Are you suggesting we should rename this from the Crafty Pint Podcast to the the Mountain Culture Weekly? um Yeah, no, certainly there's there's plenty going on there. um as As we discussed when when we first talked about the news of them buying for Ox Friday, ah we figured they, you know, they might be...
Speculations on Burswood Site Acquisition
00:00:30
Speaker
doing certain things with the brand and splitting things up and that seems to be happening. Obviously, you know, we've spoken to the Carwinds about them taking back Carwind sellers. um But now they've, I guess, confirmed more of their plans.
00:00:41
Speaker
um Not specifically around WA. All they've said is that a sort of, you know, um amazing WA indie brewery will be taking over the site in Burswood. So but we're still waiting to find out what the identity of that brewery is. We think we've narrowed it down quite tightly. There's been a lot of other texts and phone calls and emails going out the last couple of days.
00:01:00
Speaker
The story might even be out by the time this comes out, but our understanding is there's a few sort of I's to be dotted and T's to be crossed before they can actually confirm
Mountain Culture vs Less Known Brands
00:01:08
Speaker
it. So we've just got to sort of hold tight on that. Yeah. But aside from that, I mean, they' you know the the Fox Friday Richmond venue in Brewer will become a mountain culture venue.
00:01:17
Speaker
They're going to do the same with the taproom in Tassie and they're going to keep running the Muna hotels and cellars as it is. um so I guess technically the the only bit they're shedding, so to speak, would be you know the Fox Friday brand, um carbon cellars and the Perth pur and venue.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. ah Not that shocking. I think Mountain Culture is a very big name in craft beer. People love the brand and radiate towards it. ah Fox Friday was sort of not as well known nationally, I think anyway, and did have this remarkable rise, but but people really know and love Mountain Culture and what DJ and Harriet are about as well. And the whole team.
00:01:51
Speaker
And I feel less bad that I did say well in the intro when we first discussed this.
Spotlight on Marino Brewery
00:01:55
Speaker
I'm pretty sure if I was a betting man, Fox Friday would be no more. So you should have placed that bet for the odds were probably pretty short. Yeah, very true. Very true.
00:02:03
Speaker
um Aside from that, in sort of non mountain cultural related news, and you had a chat to one of the guys at Marino brewery this week, um small brewery in the southwest of Sydney, who've been kicking goals on the awards front. And it's been a very well received articles on our social since it went live.
Tasmanian Breweries Coverage and Events
00:02:20
Speaker
So clearly,
00:02:21
Speaker
you know they're they're making waves within their within their world yeah tim howard is the head brewer and has been since the the start of the brewery in 2022 it's always good when run a story like that one to see people sort of applauding the person but it was nice that a lot of people who studied with him at new south wales day were really quick to say love studying with him and even richard adamson one of his uh former teachers was uh said how proud he was so it's yeah it's nice to see that when uh a student like that has is sort of gone and and done remarkable things in the beer world. Yeah, yeah. And showing how well we plan our editorial content. It's one of two sort of brewer features we've run this week.
00:02:57
Speaker
The other one we've had one of our writers, Benny, has been down in Tassie for a while. think heading back there later in the year and he caught into Bishno Brewing, caught up with Chris the head brewer there. um So yeah, look out for I guess a bit more coverage from Tasmania over the coming weeks and months as well.
Celebrating the 50th Episode
00:03:12
Speaker
um Links to both of those articles in the show notes, obviously. um And again, i guess, you know, you talk about some London buses, you wait one for age, like then three come along at once.
00:03:23
Speaker
We've got three new crafty sort of related events coming up as well. One of them you've put together, Will. Yeah, so on July 5th, it's an event with Kaiju called the Lager Lovefest.
00:03:34
Speaker
I've wanted to do this event for about a year, just like, uh, as listeners will know, we ran a story about, uh, Nat's, uh, fascination with this lager yeast and how it's won them multiple Avers trophies. And, um, I'll be hanging out with him and Cal and we'll be chatting all things lager and diving into it. Uh, it's, it's really nice to be able to,
00:03:53
Speaker
write a story and then hopefully bring some people together to drink the beer and sort of do that whole holistic approach to editorial. It's a yeah nice feeling. So yeah for sure July 5th. Yeah, we'll include links to that details that
Interview with Willie Simpson and Catherine Stark
00:04:04
Speaker
event. There's also a discount for our Crafty Copal Beer Club members as there is for our event we're doing next week in Canberra.
00:04:10
Speaker
Will and hitting the road. and where you're You'll be in Bright even before I hit the road early on Monday morning next week. We're whizzing around the country to record a few more um upcoming episodes. And while we're in Canberra, we'll be doing an event with the team at Bentspoke.
00:04:24
Speaker
So a bit of a blind tasting, also a bit of a Q&A. Richard's intention, Richard Watkins, the sort of co-founder and head brewer there, his intention seems to be to interview us for his... uh guests as opposed the other way around so we'll we'll see how that goes um so yes the tickets for that are available um via bent spoke and for archibald members as well and one that we haven't actually got on the website yet but it will be there very very soon uh that mick uh our write-up in queensland has organized and doing a bit bit of a um masterclass with the team at Slipstream Brewing who've picked up a few awards this year.
00:04:56
Speaker
um He's always been a big fan of their beers, especially their IPAs. So we're doing a masterclass with them also next month and also with a discount for our beer club members. So have a look in the show notes or our calendar slash events on the Crafty Point website for details of all of those.
00:05:12
Speaker
And sticking with some internal news, this is actually our 50th episode. Yes. And as a little treat for ourselves, we've ah we've put together a survey because we're very keen to hear what people think of the podcast. Yeah, well, it feels like only yesterday we sat down in here to do the first one of these, and it's been less than a year, but yeah, 50 main episodes plus
Challenges for Small Breweries
00:05:32
Speaker
a few episodes.
00:05:33
Speaker
sort of spin offs as well. um But yeah, we just figured it'd be good to get some feedback, what people are enjoying, what they might not be enjoying, what they'd love to hear more of, if anyone has a guest they want to hear. um Yeah, so there'll be a link to that in the show notes. And we'll have that open for a couple of weeks and do our best to respond to ah to the feedback we get. um And importantly on that, if you ever want any guests on, on I feel like we said this a lot at start of the show, but maybe haven't as much, just email us, podcast at craftypint.com or will at craftypint.com. Just let us know you think we should have on the show because yet we're we're always eager to hear who people think should be put forward.
00:06:09
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, for sure. um Anyway, on to this week's show, and um I feel there's kind of appropriate guests for a milestone like a 50th episode. um Admittedly, there's
Seven Sheds' Community Impact
00:06:20
Speaker
probably a fair few people out there um in the beer world who got into craft beer over the last maybe five or ten years who may have no idea what Seven Sheds is or was because it closed recently and may not have heard of Willie Simpson, um but like...
00:06:34
Speaker
in terms of people who've, I guess, been part of the fabrics and helped guide beer in Australia over many decades. um Willie Simpson was first involved as a home brewer, running a home brew store in Sydney, from which a number of craft brewers have come several decades ago.
00:06:50
Speaker
He was a freelance writer writing about beer and other drinks for a number of years. He had a regular column in the Sydney Morning Herald. um And yeah, he's been a beer judge, just done pretty much everything in beer over a number of years, moved down to Tasmania about two decades ago, where he met his partner, Catherine Stark. um They opened Seven Sheds Brewery. It was only the fourth brewery in Tasmania at the time, which seems kind of nuts when there's like 30 or 40 of them now.
00:07:12
Speaker
Very unique setup, um as as we discussed. It's like it's it's an internal block in a residential area in a small town. known for its topiary veggies. um And just making, I guess, was like that archetypal early modern craft beer setup, just making the beers he wanted to make. he was He's been growing his own hops, a small hop farm there the whole time as well.
00:07:35
Speaker
Just a cellar door operation. and I guess as as a writer, he often tells stories through his beers. And they've been, both him and Catherine, have played really crucial roles in building the tourism um trail in that part of Tasmania as well.
00:07:47
Speaker
um They finally closed the cellar door for the last time just a couple of weeks ago. um Having said that, Willie says he was just kind of operating as it as a gentleman brewer for a while anyway, doing a grand total of 16 1,000 litre batches a year for the last few years.
00:08:01
Speaker
um But yeah, he offers some great insights
Beer Market Changes and Sustainability
00:08:04
Speaker
on, I guess, this that broad broad perspective, a broad period of craft beer, but also the challenges faced by really small breweries. yeah And just small business owners as well. I think he really touches on a number of things when he talks about craft they could have gone on and kept running seven sheds forever potentially but the sort of restrictions around them and and the changes made that um impossible and um which is a shame particularly as we touched on a bit for a place like tasmania that likes to pride itself with small producers and things like that as well Yeah, there's sort of the quirks of the container deposit scheme in Tassie that hurt them. And Catherine talks about the the the toilet tax that sort of hit them really unfairly. but there's some great stories about some of the beers they've made. i particularly enjoyed the one about um his 100% smoking, smoked malt, smoking bad pipes, peated malt.
00:08:48
Speaker
You know, they're getting the peat from a guy called Pete. um So just, yeah, he's, he's, you know, someone who, like say, has been very much part of the fabric of the beer industry. And those that do know him will will be of aware, you know, I guess, aside from the the newspaper columns, he wrote a number of books as well on beer.
00:09:02
Speaker
um And yeah, just really helped educate people way before the craft beer revolution, whatever you want to call it.
Legacy and Future of Seven Sheds
00:09:10
Speaker
um Came along. So yeah that comes up after the break. And in the middle of the show, you'll hear another Have You Done a Rallying section where we champion the good beer citizens of the beer world. And if you'd also like to champion some wonderful breweries that you love, make sure you get your nominations in for Bluestone's Brewer of the Month. Which is craftypint.com.
00:09:27
Speaker
tom slash bluestone um anyway we should get to the main chat with uh willie and katherine um at home in railton before we do make sure you like and subscribe podcast if you're enjoying it and uh get in on that survey cheers
00:09:48
Speaker
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00:10:03
Speaker
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00:10:21
Speaker
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00:10:34
Speaker
three zero six
00:10:42
Speaker
Willie, Catherine, thank you for joining us on the show. Hi, thank you for having us. Happy to be here. Excellent. um Now, i guess maybe we start at the end or whatever you want to call it. and The decision to finally sort of close the doors for the like the last time at Seven Sheds after 17 years recently.
00:11:01
Speaker
want to tell us a little bit about, I guess, what led to that decision? And I guess, you know, how you feel ah about the 17 years and bringing bringing it to a close? Yeah, long question and probably a long answer. but and And you've already, you know, it is the long goodbye because Crafty Pint's already written about us five years ago when we were on the market. Selling up.
00:11:25
Speaker
And obviously that didn't happen. um So, yeah, I mean, we've basically been flying around in slower, ever-decreasing circles. um and And, look, I've we I think we would have been quite happy to keep going at a very...
00:11:43
Speaker
modest output but you know outside forces sort of forced our hand um and look you know look it had to come had to happen sooner or later um i i feel quite good about it i feel quite um liberated actually think we've shut this off the door little bit sad about other things but yeah look it's been a long time coming but um yes we finally announced that we've shut No more production. We still have bit of stock, but that's sort of flying out the door that everyone knows we're shut.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's always the way. And when you say you were sort of flying in it or moving ever decreasing circles, like what was the operation, you know, towards the end? you know Had you wound it right down? Yeah, well, so the last year, I think we produced 16 batches of beer, which would be about 1,000 litres.
00:12:34
Speaker
Per batch. Per batch. um So, you know, I described myself as a gentleman brewer. You know, every month or so I'd go out to the brewery and with our assistant brewer <unk> brewer, production brewer, who's been with us for 12 years, we'd knock out a batch of beer and then we'd sell it.
00:12:54
Speaker
But, you know,
00:12:57
Speaker
we we had tried, we'd had a...
00:13:02
Speaker
taken on a distributor for the last 12 months just to see where we can get into venues in Launceston Hobart. And that was quite an illuminating exercise because I went round in trade half a dozen times and my God, the market has changed.
00:13:18
Speaker
It's price sensitive, it's very conservative, it's tight. It was like a game of whack-a-mole to me. If if if we managed to get a ah keg of beer on tap somewhere in one of these handful of outlets, we were basically knocking off another Tati Craft brewer.
00:13:35
Speaker
And once our keg was empty, we'd be knocked off and someone else would come along. So it told me how competitive and price sensitive and crowded the market was.
00:13:47
Speaker
And so so, I mean, that that's impacting even Tasmania. And I guess you do have a ah huge number of breweries per capita, even though ah get the impression a lot of them are on a smaller scale, sort of a lot of over their own counter to retail. But I guess they're still chasing what few taps might be spare.
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. and and And we try to do that. and And obviously in the early days, we did a lot of festivals, a lot of big festivals, and that was very successful. But Once the competition arrived, that you know there was more of us slicing the cake into ever smaller slices.
00:14:22
Speaker
that That's life. That's the market. That's what happened in our lifetime, our career. um And here we are. In terms of outside forces, was there anything else? Like there's that competitive size of it and the number of breweries, but sort of other factors that you went, no, we just can't do this anymore?
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah. and Do you want to get in here? Definitely. um So changing markets and um particularly post-COVID? ah we saw a really big change in the visitor profile that was coming to us.
00:14:59
Speaker
So um the whole, what I call the mortgage bill, the probably the 35 to 50 year old, they've got a mortgage and even the younger people than that, that are just getting into the mortgage early on. and um And they've been really squeezed in the last few years. They've bought real estate at high prices.
00:15:21
Speaker
They've, committed to mortgages at high interest rates. Well, interest rates went up. Yeah, and interest rates went up. And um we just lost this whole demographic. They just disappeared.
00:15:33
Speaker
And we've had an increase, I think, in the over-60s who are retiring, you know, the 65 to 70-year-olds particularly. And they're really cashed up, but they don't drink as much.
00:15:47
Speaker
And, to you know, that's just how they are in their life cycle. um and And the young ones that are coming up behind them are not drinking at all.
00:15:58
Speaker
That seems to be what's happening in our observation. We're not we're not getting that market at all. So, yes, there's been a big shift in the market and there's been a shift in how they spend their money.
00:16:11
Speaker
yeah and you And you mentioned as well the other day a number of sort of other costs that were coming in that were sort of punitive for an operation of your size as well. that you know was it was really a matter of...
00:16:23
Speaker
um
00:16:26
Speaker
the The container refund scheme, even though we're, this crazy, this is this is the catch-22, even though we're exempt from the scheme, because we've been under 20,000 units a year for a long time, we still had to comply with labels and barcodes and do all the reporting and paperwork.
00:16:44
Speaker
um So the cost of you know, producing enough labels get us through, say, the next two years would have been something like $10,000. More than that. More than that. The state government offered us $1,000 to cover our extra costs. Sorry, I'm the bean counter. Labels and barcodes would have cost us around about $35,000 if we kept the full range that we were producing 18 months ago, shall we And...
00:17:11
Speaker
yeah shall we say yeah and And yeah, so that level of compliance on top of some other compliance issues that came up, which were um so what I call the toilet tax.
00:17:25
Speaker
We suddenly had to start paying for extra toilets because we were running a bar for nine hours a week. Right, yeah. Even though you'd done it for 17 years and everyone had been fine. Yeah, and it was all approved. Everything was fine for 17 years. We'd actually had Tazwater come in in 2018 or 2019 and everything was fine at that stage. And then they've come back and done an audit in the last 12 months and said, no, no, no.
00:17:51
Speaker
and And the toilets was probably a bit longer than that. It was probably two years ago or so. So that effectively doubled what we were paying for our water and sewage, particularly sewage.
00:18:03
Speaker
And then the trade waste went up as well, which wasn't as much as the toilet tax, to be perfectly honest. but But they wanted us to spend... 20 grand to be compliant uh they didn't say you have to spend this money but they had said you have to do this stuff and so when you look at how much it's going to cost to do that stuff that's 20 grand and we're sort of at this stage of our lives it's like you know we spend 50 grand on trade waste and labels or we can spend that on shut the door other things so yeah yeah
00:18:37
Speaker
I mean, the bottom line is 17 years ago when we started, we were really just dealing with our local council yeah and the tax office yeah for excise.
00:18:47
Speaker
And suddenly we're being we're paying trade waste tariff, which was doubled, and then they're saying you got to do this, this, and this. And we said, well, hang on, we're just a little artisan producer.
00:19:01
Speaker
We're 16 food in the last I reckon average... you know, family household with a couple of teenagers, we're putting more down in the way of trade waste in a year than we are.
00:19:12
Speaker
But they they don't see that. They see us as food manufacturers, category two brewers. So it's a gouge for small business. Were you surprised...
00:19:25
Speaker
by that at all i mean obviously tasmania part of the tasmania story is small artisan producers it's kind of nature and beautiful world and then artisan producers is is why people go to tasmania like do you see a different way through that or how it sort of comes well no that's that's a lovely thought um in in reality doesn't happen. I mean, the other thing we've had to deal with, by the way, we just reclaimed weekends because the last 17 years we've been running a cellar door and either Catherine or myself or both of us have been there. And a lot of that's about penalty rates.
00:20:01
Speaker
Like can we pay someone to be there on a Sunday, it's prohibitive. If we have a production day on a public holiday, it's prohibitive. But, um you know, is when you go into a shop on Friday afternoon or the bank and everyone says, have a great weekend.
00:20:16
Speaker
And I go, well, yeah, right. wait We're going to be working. what are you what are you doing? We're in hospitality. um And in fact, you know, we've had a stall of the farmer's market in Launceston for the last 12 years. So I get up at 5.15, drive off and run that and come back and ran a cellar door.
00:20:34
Speaker
It's busiest day of the year. That's not a week. That's not a week left. So things have changed. I mean, 17 years ago, landscape was a lot simpler. and yeah but we're basically operating in a residential area.
00:20:48
Speaker
I don't think we would be allowed now to start a craft brewery in a shed in our backyard. surrounded by 12 residential neighbours. So, look, we were lucky we did it.
00:21:00
Speaker
But, you know, we live in a different world now and it's highly compliant. It's a nanny state and it's making it very hard for small business, let alone craft brewers. So, you look, I'm happy to put my feet up and not have to worry about that. Is it something that you're seeing or hearing from some other of your...
00:21:21
Speaker
Tasmanian peers as well, that they're there, you know, at the smaller end of the scale. Yeah, look, a couple of our friends who've got very small artisan soft drink companies are getting hammered by this container a refund scheme.
00:21:36
Speaker
And for them, it's, you know, it's, I can imagine it's just a huge extra cost. And it's just, it's not the cost. It's, you have to do this reporting of movements. And even though you're exempt, you still have you have to sort to spend money on labels and on do all the reporting and do a small business. Yes, that's time is money.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah. um So I don't know how they're going, but I feel for them. And it may tip them over the edge, don't know. And so, well, it may maybe even go further back in 17 years. So, um you know, many people, but probably most people that be listening to this so or reading the Crafty Bible will know of your sort of life before Brewing Willie. but you know what but What were the two two of you doing leading up to just, you know,
00:22:22
Speaker
Moving to Tassie, starting Seven Sheds. Yeah, well, you're talking about you another lifetime, James. So I was a freelance writer specialising in writing about beer, but also spirits, most other alcoholic beverages other than wine.
00:22:39
Speaker
I wrote four books about beer. And then I started a craft brewery. We started a craft brewery, but I kept writing and even writing a weekly column for the City Morning Herald for the first four years of seven shares.
00:22:56
Speaker
And Catherine was working full time. Yeah, so I was ah developing a career in tourism and regional development. So at my last job before I um decided to support the brewery when it was going off and we were at the end of every day having tears, to be perfectly honest, because there was so much going on in the brewery and Willie needed support and I had a fairly responsible job as well. But,
00:23:23
Speaker
um Yeah, so I was the economic development manager in our local government council and I resigned from that position, and well, three years into it, but I say four years because there was a year of developing and setting the business up before we actually opened. So we opened in 2008.
00:23:46
Speaker
I resigned from my full-time job in January 2011, soon after we'd been flooded, and and the floods certainly tipped me over the edge. That was just another um factor in not working full-time while trying to support what was going on at home.
00:24:05
Speaker
yeah and And just so people, I guess, understand, when you say about sort of the residential area, it kind of surprised me even 15 years ago, whenever it was I first visited, you do sort of walk past these houses and go down the long driveway and then there's the seven sheds and the cellar door. um And and you you live on the property as well. If people who haven't been, used so you come down cellar door on the left-hand side, hops growing straight ahead, a smattering of sheds and then the residence off to the right, isn't it? So very, very much a home brewery.
00:24:34
Speaker
so And it's an internal it's an internal block. yeah So we actually have 11 adjacent neighbors. And that was, I mean, part of the thing we'd never we wouldn't have been allowed to, but we weren't interested in running a bar or anything after six o'clock.
00:24:52
Speaker
So we really had this model that was based on like a regional winery cellar door where people would come in, paste our beers, sit down in a very peaceful, quiet environment, look at the hops growing when they were growing and hopefully but listen to the bird life and hopefully buy some beer to take away.
00:25:16
Speaker
and And that model worked well. pretty well for for for a while. Yep. For a long time. Yep. And then I know you did a lot work in the tourism area.
00:25:28
Speaker
I guess the first extended period we had spending time together, Willie, was when we drove around for a couple of days, not long after we launched the Northwest, is it Tasting Trail or coast to you know Cradle to Coast Trail? Yes. With you guys involved, a number other small artisan um producers. but is that something that was...
00:25:45
Speaker
you know was you always envisaged being part of Seven Sheds. And I guess looking ahead, is is back up to now, is that something that is being impacted negatively with the sort the changes as well? Or is tourism kind of still proceeding as it always has been?
00:26:01
Speaker
Oh, look, from my point of view, I had no idea what it was like to be a tourist operator or tourism operator. But yes, we very quickly became part of a region. In the early days, we were the only craft brewery in the Northwest. So when we went to tourism forums, we sponsored it.
00:26:18
Speaker
but again We sponsored the you know the cocktail dinner and the dinner and stuff. And that was great for networking and stuff initially. But it also made you understand that you were part of a greater region and anything could bring, know, we got a,
00:26:36
Speaker
regional tourism grant to build our cellar door. And that was based on the fact that we could generate two equivalent of two full time jobs in a small regional town in Tasmania. And we did that.
00:26:48
Speaker
And what it made me appreciate, you know, we were bringing people into this town of Railton who might one in 10 or 20 might fill up with petrol at the petrol station. They might get a takeaway. They might spend money in the post office. And that's what we're part of. We're part of a region And if you look at it, you know, someone might say we were clinically insane to open a craft brewery in a small regional town in Tasmania, but we made it work.
00:27:15
Speaker
And Catherine Rotorio, we don't have debts. We didn't borrow money. where We're not hanging up the pool queue because we're insolvent. Do you want to say something more about that?
00:27:29
Speaker
Oh, look, I mean, part of the story in the background, I suppose, is that I was already ah Bachelor of Business in Tourism, studying regional development policy, blah, blah, blah. But um I did the number crunching when Billy came home one day and said, let's put a brewery in that shed we already had the big shed and um I think he he had um a bit of a an idea that he'd been passionate well not passionate about but had been thinking about since he was a young man and he saw the opportunity but he came home one day and said what do you think about putting a brewery in that back shed and uh I did some number crunching like I'm a bachelor of business that was my first degree so I know how to to do the figures and um
00:28:16
Speaker
a I put together some projections and took them to the accountant and the accountant said go for it. So it wasn't just a blind silly idea that we just started doing. We actually did do some research in the background and I was working in tourism and ah knew ah bit about the visitor flows in the region and so on. So um It wasn't hard to predict what might happen in those early days.
00:28:39
Speaker
And soon after we set up, ah we had very early conversations with people that were interested in developing a tasting trail and that started to gain some momentum 2011 was when it really started to actually happen, but we'd been talking um for some time before then.
00:29:03
Speaker
And we were involved with that right from the very early inception of the idea and right through to, I think I resigned from the chair position and from the committee around about a year ago, a year or 18 months ago, something like that.
00:29:18
Speaker
um But on that committee right from the start was either myself or Willie. That was up until just a short time ago. So maybe 12 years or so of Seven Sheds being involved in that process.
00:29:31
Speaker
um and And also other events and things that we were involved in that Toast of the North West. so So we were involved in organising a one day event for this region for food and drink and again, well I was on the committee and president for many years until my doctor talked about my blood pressure i Get back on the kayak, Willie look like and A lot of that was very fulfilling because it was doing stuff that and was voluntary, it was a lot of hours, a lot of hard work, but
00:30:06
Speaker
um Ultimately, you're putting on event making, locals were turning up and having a great time. it was a free entry event.
00:30:16
Speaker
That's one of the things, one of the more fulfilling things we did outside Seven Shares, which I hadn't ever envisaged you would get to be part of that. So it's not just operating your brewery, you become part of the community, the region,
00:30:32
Speaker
and like-minded producers. And same thing with with the farmers market in Launceston. We've had a stall there for 12 years and I feel more affinity, I think, with a lot of the stallholders there than necessarily craft brewers because they're all Similar people to us, couples mainly who have got a passion or a manic obsession with something.
00:30:56
Speaker
Most have got personality disorders, which means you're obsessed with the producing some very niche product and not making much money out of it. But they're great people and they're they're equally passionate um people.
00:31:10
Speaker
in In terms of looking back at the moment, does anything else sort of stand out that was particularly fulfilling or you feel satisfied with as you close this chapter?
00:31:21
Speaker
Oh, look, I think we've made a lot of people happy over 17 years. um You know, few people have gone overboard and made other people unhappy by their enthusiasm. That's a very p polite way of putting it.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah, but it's, yeah you know, the... the you know We've made a lot of friends with fellow producers, not necessarily brewers, winemakers, other producers.
00:31:46
Speaker
We've made a lot of friends with loyal local customers. um And that's been a fantastic thing. But we've sacrificed a lot, I think. We've sacrificed. social life and weekends.
00:31:59
Speaker
um But, you know, you weigh all that up and you think, would do it again? Yeah, I would do it, absolutely. And just to clarify, I mean, like yeah you were involved, you were a home brewer, you you were involved in the home brewing sort of scene and Sydney several decades ago. So I guess you were always making beer while you were writing about beer. And so was that...
00:32:18
Speaker
you know Was it always part of a long-term goal or did you get to the point where you could see something was growing? You know you were a reporting on something that was happening and it was like, I want to be part of this, or was it just... i have I can brew and I need to satisfy this side of me.
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah, look, ah there was all of that element, James. And yes, I came from a homebrewing club in eastern suburbs of Sydney yeah and a shop that I managed. And there's six or seven or eight people who homebrewers there had gone out to work as craft brewers. So that was quite a crucible of early development.
00:32:52
Speaker
you know, the green shoots of the craft room thing and the writing about it. And I guess, you know, there there were a few people sawing me on from the sidelines and you mentioned them, you like Brad Rogers, but particularly Richard Watkins from Wigan Pen.
00:33:10
Speaker
And I went, you know, visited him, did a couple of brews there. And I saw how basic their setup was to make, and he was making... bloody good beer. I thought, well, don't need, you know, Chinese manufactured equipment.
00:33:28
Speaker
You can do it. And so we ended up, we ended up putting a brewery together with reused dairy equipment. We can talk about that later on. But he was a great mentor. to us and we flew him down a couple of times to help us set up brew. The first couple of brews.
00:33:42
Speaker
And he was always at the end of the phone, you know, it might have been twice a day and then it was twice a week and then it was twice a month and that was once a year, you know, but he was great as a supporter. And I think you need that because really we were flying by the seat of our pants.
00:33:58
Speaker
And it was great to have those relationships and all those people have gone on and had bigger and better careers in the craft brewing industry. and
00:34:08
Speaker
I keep going back to musical analogies and i I think we were like, you know, I think Seven Sheds, with our open fermenters and and non-automated equipment, you know, we're a bit like the vinyl end of the music industry.
00:34:27
Speaker
And there are people who would argue that sound quality didn't actually improve beyond vinyl. It just became more convenient and digitised. And I also think Seven Sheds was a bit like the Velvet Underground.
00:34:41
Speaker
And it's been said about the Velvet Underground, they didn't sell many records, but every second person who bought a record went off and started their own band. And I think we were a bit influential to our own detriment, by the way, that people saw what we were doing out of pretty basic equipment and thought, we can have a go.
00:35:01
Speaker
And just like the Velvet Underground, some of our people who work for us, and you know, principally Evan, evan Hunter have gone on and had successful careers. like he So he's a bit like a Lou Reed.
00:35:14
Speaker
He was in the Velvet Underground, now he's gone and done his own stuff twice. People love that analogy, Evan. other people like that. So you know if everyone if anyone remembers the Velvet Underground, But what we were like.
00:35:26
Speaker
but Well, I think what say to you mentioned, Evan, is that you know he's now at Bendigo Brewing and they've got, you know I guess, a more modern brewery. But he is still fastidious about use it using you know traditional techniques, ingredients, brewing the hard way, I guess, ah maybe trying to recreate that vinyl, the vinyl scratch.
00:35:44
Speaker
but and what I've got from, have tasted some of his beers, but i've seen what he's doing. I think he is following his own heart. He's not just doing what everyone else is doing with the cookie cutter list of beers. So I think that's what we did.
00:35:58
Speaker
And it's nice to think that other people have picked that up and run with it. Yeah. And while I was going back and talk a bit more about the beers, the meads, the hops, that and kind of stuff, um maybe take a short break now and then we'll come back and focus a bit more on, I guess, the personality of Seven Sheds and the products.
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
And look at us, we're back here to celebrate the good beer citizens of the beer world with Have You Done a Rowling's campaign, celebrating all the great people in beer that make the community what it is. James, you've got a wonderful, honorable mention.
00:36:31
Speaker
Yes, the honouration this month is for Darrell Cook from Sunshine Brewing. um Darrell is a massive advocate for the independent breweries of the Sunshine Coast. He's at every event, IBA meet up and local conference and works hard to communicate messaging about brewery ownership and independence in their taproom.
00:36:49
Speaker
Pretty sure when I called in, they would have heard the printout of who owns your beer? hanging on the wall um a few years ago. Daryl's also recently started planning a local independent beer day with tour buses traveling between various breweries on the Sunshine Coast.
00:37:02
Speaker
The nomination ends with a legend of the biz. So, you know, who who won what wouldn't want to be called a legend of the biz? um However, um this this week's or this month's winner, I should say, someone you spoke to a few few weeks ago, um i guess who's enjoyed some pretty amazing success of their own and now wanting to pass that on to someone else.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah, well, Australia is the brewer behind Australia's champion beer, uh, Pete Macca McDonald from Wedgedale Brewing. We were talking, was like, oh, that's right. I need to nominate none other than Steve Hendo Henderson from Rockstar Brewer Academy.
00:37:35
Speaker
A lot of people will know Hendo from his long time in the beer industry, but the work he does, um, is, is really important, I think. And, uh, so does Maka. He says that they've been working with Hendo for around four years and his knowledge and experience of the brewing industry is amazing.
00:37:49
Speaker
He's always ready to help out on any questions around brewing, get in contact with the Hendo and see what he has to offer. Yeah, there you go. well A real character as well. Someone who's been around the industry in many roles for a number of years and I'm sure there'll be many other breweries around the country who yeah, that I agree with everything Pete says.
00:38:07
Speaker
So congratulations um to those guys. you but Both nominee and the winner will receive a voucher from Rallings labels and stickers. So if you'd like to nominate a good beer citizen from your part of the world, all you have to do is jump online at craftypint.com slash Rallings and we'll be back with another winner next month.
00:38:25
Speaker
And now back to the show. Cheers.
00:38:34
Speaker
Welcome back. um Willie, Catherine, what about, let's talk about some of the beers and also maybe starting with mead because I know that's always been a big passion project as well and it's not an alcoholic drink we see much of in Australia.
00:38:48
Speaker
Well, no, it's not. And, and you know, God, here we go. So, you know, my life has been the road less travelled. So for a while, I thought I was going to open a meadery in where we are now. And, and but you know, i thought, well, that's a bit...
00:39:05
Speaker
to niche However, we had been making mead on a semi-commercial basis, if 100 litres is semi-commercial. So when we actually got the grant for the federal tourism grant, that wasn't supposed to be for startup breweries.
00:39:20
Speaker
But because Kath managed to massage the application to suggest we've been making mead for a couple of years, which we had, and we um we were an existing business.
00:39:32
Speaker
So the mead, I've always made mead, but it's always been a very smart small part of what we do.
00:39:39
Speaker
But, you know, I'm still making it and it still fascinates me. I'll probably right off in the sunset still making mead and still making beer probably on home brew basis.
00:39:50
Speaker
What was it that fascinated in particular about mead then? I mean, we've there that there are a handful mead makers around the country. i think they're all fairly interesting characters. I'm sort of intrigued know. Yeah, funny I just think because it it was the it was the drink that history forgot.
00:40:05
Speaker
If you you read the history, it was it was older than, mead is older than wine or beer. It's not the oldest alcoholic drink, by the way. I was telling people that. But the Tasmanian Aborigines were consuming fermented cider gum 50,000 years ago. So get that.
00:40:24
Speaker
maybe like Anyway, your fascinating. When I moved to Tasmania, this is you know this is the epicentre of honey. It's the epicentre of all sorts of... honeys from leatherwood to other ones. So yeah, that sort of got me. But you know, then then we started a craft brewery and beer just took off.
00:40:42
Speaker
So that was on the back burner, as it were. What would you say was your approach to, but when you started the brewery, your approach to beers? I mean, obviously there was, I guess, more traditional English style ales in there.
00:40:57
Speaker
well yeah Yeah, and you say that, and I know you've accused you've accused us of being Anglophiles and... Was it wantonly uncool, James? you i um I may have used such a... I would have used it as a compliment, I'm sure.
00:41:12
Speaker
have one yeah i took it as a backhanded compliment. Then I took it as a full compliment. That's what I was intending. Yeah, so very much brewing beers we wanted to make and drink.
00:41:24
Speaker
And that was that was in the early stage when we had this business plan and we both had full-time jobs. It was like, okay, we'll make a beer, which was Kentish. And Kentish is the area, is the local government body we live in. One of the hops was from Kent.
00:41:39
Speaker
But anyway. um and And look, if it didn't sell, we didn't have a business. We were going to drink it all ourselves and that wouldn't matter. So that was our business plan. But very quickly, we had to keep making it to keep up with production. Then we made other beers.
00:41:56
Speaker
um And, you know, there was a funny thing when I went around and told a few of the local craft brewers here that we were shutting down, sort of, you know, told them informally.
00:42:08
Speaker
And a couple of them said, have you got any smoking bagpipes left? You know, which is the most extreme beer we make, a peat-smoked Scotch ale. which again was Evan Hunter's contribution, but now one my favourite. Working title, Evan's Folly, back in the day. It was.
00:42:25
Speaker
One of my favourite beers. And I thought, well, okay, no, we haven't got any left. And where have you guys been for the last couple of years? Because if you'd been supporting us, we would still be making it but That is one of the the beers that came from left field.
00:42:40
Speaker
um I peat smoked the grain over four days with Tasmanian peat. It's a very extreme version of a Scotch ale. And I love the fact, and i tell people that the regular consumers of smoking bagpipes at Seven Sheds were by far the most interesting consumers we ever had.
00:43:00
Speaker
They tended to have very extreme hobbies and recreational activities. um So, you know, there you go. That was smoking bagpipes. It wasn't just a peat-smoked malt-based beer. was 100% peat-smoked, wasn't it? There was no other- Mostly, altered yeah. yeah yeah
00:43:22
Speaker
And Tasmanian peat. So, you know, we'd get the peat from bloke called Pete, by the way. LAUGHTER I love that connection and it was hard work and, you know, to make 700, well, 800 litres of beer would take me four days to peat smoke the stuff.
00:43:41
Speaker
No one would do that. And he always made it in the depths of winter when it was still and foggy and the smoke would just kind of permeate the fog that was hanging around the town and you'd kind of smell it.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I'd actually make a point of a bit of personal information here, but I'd wear the same clothes for four days because I'd be so reeking of peat smoke at the end.
00:44:07
Speaker
There was no point in washing between. There's people at the other side of Railton going, Willie's making his bagpipes again, Kev. I hope he knows.
00:44:19
Speaker
But look, and this is how the market has changed for me. So in the very early days, we made a Belgian double Trapper style vehicle elephant's trunk. 7% based on roughly on Chimay.
00:44:32
Speaker
And we made Chimay Blue. um And we were putting it in 50 litre kegs for a single outlet in Hobart. and people were drinking it.
00:44:43
Speaker
and This was 12, 13 years ago. and in the last year, when we've taken on a distributor, and I've gone around the trade down there and seen how conservative and price sensitive it is. And I said, well, what about a better Belgian Dublin? And they've gone, nah, wouldn't work.
00:45:01
Speaker
So that was amazing to me that back then people were, they were happy to drink stuff like that and take it on. I mean, what's happened? what way Why, you know, was that a, shot in the dark or whatever.
00:45:14
Speaker
well't um um so making We kind of hope it's a temporary thing with you know time to tied to the mortgage belt not coming out. you know Hopefully it's a temporary thing that yeah you know there's less money flowing around and therefore the venues are getting more conservative at what they pour and maybe brewers are adapting to that.
00:45:32
Speaker
um What's been interesting as well yeah is that I think there has been a movement because maybe it could be done more cost effectively back to so yeah more of the beer styles that you have been making and championing as well.
00:45:45
Speaker
you know Not so crazily want you know OTT hops and more about subtleties of malt and balance and that kind of thing. We seem to be, so for certain parts of the market, we've we've certainly covered it a couple of times in that in the last couple of years, people moving back to that more, I guess, traditional styles of brewing as well.
00:46:03
Speaker
Yeah, look, I mean, I think that was just the journey we went on. I got quite obsessed about making a pilsamer in the last few years. I said we'd never, someone quoted back to me, I said we'd never make a lager as long as my backside pointed south.
00:46:16
Speaker
But we did. it became of a bit of a mission for me. Oh, didn't you go source the the purest water on the planet? You you even did did it with water from... That's where it started. So it was basically the purest rainwater on the planet.
00:46:32
Speaker
So we yeah we made a Pilsner. And then I thought, OK, well, let's just's keep making this. um But the other thing that I guess this brings in is the fact that because... our fermenters or our whole brewery is dairy equipment our fermenters were open fermenters so they're quite shallow um they're not pressurized and you know it's bit nerve-wracking in the early days so well you know is what's going to happen here we're going to get infection or whatever but but when you think about it that was the way beer was made for don't know what do we know six thousand years before stainless steel really came along in the and
00:47:10
Speaker
and The more I thought about it, we did stir that out of necessity because it was cheap. But I think that was our house flavour. And the fact that I was able to go in the day after we brewed and lift the dust lid on a fermenter and look at this heaving, seething mass of live yeast crawls and happening and smell it and hear it.
00:47:35
Speaker
um you know, it was a very vigorous fermentation. and And so more recently, I got interested in looking at the difference between open fermentation and the classic unit tank, which is the industry standard.
00:47:49
Speaker
And when you think about it, you know we are making 1,000 litre batches of beer. If you look at a 1,000 litre unit tank, the surface area on the tank, on our open fermenter is almost doubled.
00:48:03
Speaker
So the yeast, you I want to get too technical, but the yeast is under less pressure. It ferments very vigorously. It loves that freedom and it creates all sort of um interesting complexities, fruity all sorts of complexities. And we had the opportunity,
00:48:23
Speaker
um we we outsourced some of our beers to Morrison's Brewery because we were dipping our toe in putting our beer in cans and doing stuff.
00:48:34
Speaker
And it was interesting because what we found was the Pilsner that we brewed at Morrison's was far better. It was much cleaner, much crisper. That seemed to work, temperature control.
00:48:47
Speaker
The Kentish Ale didn't really have the depth of character that our house beer did. And the IPA that we did, we only did one of them at Morrison's, it just didn't work.
00:48:58
Speaker
It didn't didn't have the balance. It didn't have all sorts of things. And I'm putting that down, and i can I'm not a scientist, not a physicist, not anything, but, um well, I'm a craft brewer, but I'm not even that anymore.
00:49:13
Speaker
um What I thought was... The geometry of the equipment affects the final flavor. And I wish someone would actually do some more research on this because I really think if you're trying to make the very best IPA or pale ale, I'd be looking at open fermentation because you're going to get far more complexity in there.
00:49:36
Speaker
All the unitanks, if you look at the history, I'm going to go off on a tangent here if you don't stop me. um Dr. Leopold Nathan, who basically invented the unitank,
00:49:48
Speaker
at the same time that rolled stainless steel came out. It was all about trying to brew a beer in tropical conditions so you could circulate, keep the beer cool. But of course, those narrow vessels are very space efficient.
00:50:03
Speaker
So big breweries loved it because they were controlling the temperature when they were mass producing lager and you get a lot more tanks in a floor space. Well, you know, if if you are... Look at open fermentation.
00:50:15
Speaker
Come back. it my It's the next frontier. Well, if you're not brewing, you know, 16 times a year anymore, that's 16 days that you've got, plus bottling, you know, to to ah further your studies.
00:50:29
Speaker
You could be Dr. Willie by the time we next speak. Yeah. But who would employ me, James? Who would pay to get esoteric knowledge?
00:50:40
Speaker
I'd probably have to be in book form, maybe scroll form or something like that. I don't know. Maybe. Well, there's and there's been a but lot of beers over the years. Catherine, any particular favorites of yours or beers where you've contributed the idea, the the concept or anything like that? i mean, I always kind of think you never left the storytelling behind with Seven Sheds and the Bass Strait IPA, you know sending the beer back and forth. There was always storytelling involved in so many of the beers. And I just wonder whether there were any that were really close to your heart, Catherine?
00:51:11
Speaker
So, I mean, a couple of things spring to mind and and particularly our first two brews, which actually were Willie's home brews back in the day when I first met him in Hobart in the early two thousand He would brew what is Kentish Ale essentially now. it hasn't changed very much since then in his 20-litre homebrew kit.
00:51:33
Speaker
And that was his summer beer. And he would brew Willie Warmer as his winter beer. So they were beers he was already brewing and they are still on the list now. So they've lasted through that whole period.
00:51:46
Speaker
craft brewing period. They're still around. They're still popular beers. um And I guess the other one for me that has a stronger story for me, oh, there's lots of good stories, but for me, obviously Stark Raven because my surname is Stark.
00:52:00
Speaker
But I wanted I wanted oatmeal stout. i wanted a notemeal stout And I was pretty keen to have a fairly heavy stout, I suppose. so um So the back story there is that I'd been lobbying for stout some time. Willie wasn't enthused with that idea. We had Willie Walker already and he thought that was enough.
00:52:21
Speaker
um And Evan was our assistant brewer. I think he was still a assistant brewer at that stage. and And he was a bit interested. And so they did get to the point where they were starting to to taste some stouts.
00:52:36
Speaker
um when they were having brew days. And one day I was driving home from my job 10 minutes up the road and and I came around a sharp corner and was thinking, what could we call our stout, even though there hadn't been permission to make a stout at that stage?
00:52:53
Speaker
You already advanced the process in your mind. That kind of conversation in my head. I don't know why that afternoon, but I was driving home from work Thinking about that, and I came around a sharp corner and there were a couple of ravens pecking at a wallaby carcass and I almost um took them out, which is unusual for ravens um down here. They roadkill all the time, but they're pretty wary of cars.
00:53:16
Speaker
And um anyway, it popped into my head, you have to be stark raving mad to have your supper in that spot. And I ah got home and Willie had been having a bit of a bad hair day. I told him the story and he said, well, you'd have to be stark raving mad to build a brewery in your backyard.
00:53:32
Speaker
So the name stuck. and the beer didn't eventuate for a little while after that, but Stark Raving obviously became Stark Raven. Yeah. um The Ravens being black, Stark being strong, 6.7% missed out.
00:53:47
Speaker
and mean And that's a good story because I thought it was only going to be a seasonal beer, but it very quickly emerged got some very enthusiastic regular customers yeah and when we when we ran out over summer they got very grumpy so we ended up brewing it all year round and um in fact you know we have four regular black beers i don't any other brewery that has that but and And I guess the other thing, a lot of people said to us, why do your beers taste so good?
00:54:22
Speaker
Well, not everyone, but a few people. And I think, you know, there's there's a few reasons. One is the open fermentation. One is we don't filter, we don't take anything out of it. um But we brewed a stout. So to me, a stout has to have strength.
00:54:35
Speaker
So stout Raven is 6.7% alcohol. It was originally sort of based on a little bit of a Cooper's stout, but I thought it had to have oats.
00:54:47
Speaker
um And a few people over the years have said, you a lot of your beers are... high octane they're very high strength as well no we're actually brewing into style that that to me is to style so to me a stout it is a stout porter it should have the alcohol and and it's not the alcohol is not there to get you drunk the alcohol is there to balance all the other big flavors that are there and um yeah so it's not right i mean that that's one that Probably when we announced we were shutting the brewery, the saddest customers, other than the smoking bagpipes, were the Stark Raven people because they're pretty rusted on.
00:55:26
Speaker
and and And equally interesting people, by the way. Yeah. yeah And the the Kendi Shale as well with that group. Stark Raven and Kendi Shale seems to appeal to the same um bunch of people.
00:55:38
Speaker
So Kendi Shale is their light beer, 5.2%. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And what about, I guess, and you know, that it was it was brewery, meadery, hop garden. So the future of the hop garden, will that do with that and can feed into some home brews? Yeah, so what I've done, i've with the hop garden is one of those things that seems like a really good idea and and you put a lot of effort into.
00:56:02
Speaker
And, i mean, honestly, we can buy hops cheaper than we can grow them. But um iye We've reduced the hop garden. and I'm going to keep some going and I'm going to offer it to some of the local craft brewers here to do a fresh hop beer because that'll give me something to do, if nothing else.
00:56:20
Speaker
um And it is kind of nice to see that seasonal rotation of the shoots coming up in an early spring and having put the strings up and go through the whole six month growing season. And it was great for our customers when they were sitting out on the deck observing all that.
00:56:38
Speaker
But it wasn't always easy work, like growing anything as its challenges. But, yeah, I'm going to at least keep one variety going and see who might be interested in making a fresh hot beer out of it. Which varieties are you still growing at the minute? There was Lagos? Cascade.
00:56:55
Speaker
ah caska Okay, yeah. And what what about the local scene? I mean, you were the only craft brewery in the northwest of Tasmania when you started. You would have been one of the very few in the state. Though, obviously, there's the big one up north and the big one down south.
00:57:08
Speaker
But two metre tall, Moo would have been start. Moo Brew and Iron House started up like a year before us or two. So we call ourselves number four. And for enter two or three years, that was the case. And then the...
00:57:23
Speaker
Then the cavalry arrived and most of it was in the greater Hobart. And for us, I mean, that was um about half a dozen of our customers, people who were buying our beer, either to put on tap in their breweries or buy bottles for various things, the start of their own breweries.
00:57:43
Speaker
So that tells you where the industry was going. Our customers were becoming competitors. And that was just good that's just the market force of the nature of the industry. um And then people were getting beers brewed under contract and putting it on tap in their pubs under their own label.
00:58:04
Speaker
And that's still happening. um So, look, the universe has changed. It really has.
00:58:12
Speaker
I don't know where it's going to go. I'm not going to make any predictions on that. Oh, damn it. We're going to try and pin you down. I mean, as someone who you has been writing, brewing,
00:58:24
Speaker
homebrewing, supplying homebrewers, et cetera, et cetera, farmers markets for you know a number of decades now. you know As an observer, like you know what what have you made, especially if maybe the last five, 10 years and and and where of things are? I mean, we're in a very convoluted state now for all manner of reasons, but you know have you watched on, yeah i guess you would have been surprised maybe how it's gone. Have you watched on with fascination? Has it been morbid fascination, just like going, what the hell's going on? like What has it been like?
00:58:51
Speaker
Well, and first of all, we're we're a bit isolated here in northwest Tasmania. But, you know, when I was reading Crafty Pint every week pre-COVID, you know, it was just astounding about all these breweries that were doubling, tripling, quadrupling their production. And I thought, well, what is happening here? This is just...
00:59:13
Speaker
as I've told you, an industry that is on a turbocharged bender. And it didn't sound like it was sustainable, and it obviously wasn't. And you know the real worry for me is that when when we started up, locals supported us, and so did a lot of their kids.
00:59:34
Speaker
yeah There were kids who were going to uni who were drinking our beer and drinking it in Hobart and doing all this. But they're now middle-aged and we haven't seen that next generation come along.
00:59:45
Speaker
So I'm always talking about this lost generation that haven't actually taken up craft beer and cast daughters at sort of age, and late 20s, and i I sort of see what her and her drink and I have to look the other way.
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah. If they drink at all. If they drink at all. And they're not and they're not socialising like we did. i mean, people aren't going out to nightclubs to meet partners they're doing it all on social media i mean you you guys know all this um so so the the world has changed incredibly and incredibly quickly um i don't know like any predictions maybe maybe there's been sort of a reaction against us being you know but our generation or generations being you know a bit more social you know socializing a bit more harshly should we say and there's been that reaction maybe maybe their kids are like why look
01:00:36
Speaker
Why are they not going out? are they not having fun? And we just need to, you know, bide our time until the next generation rebels against the the sensible seltzer drinking. but And that that may happen. and and And when the economy goes up too, that might happen because, you know, I think that's important to think that when when we were, I mean, we we were in peak beer 10 years ago, 2015.
01:00:57
Speaker
two thousand That was the year we reduced the most beer. We had huge events. We sold untold amount of beer. People were spending because interest rates were low. People were positive.
01:01:08
Speaker
Economy was up. Now, everything goes in cycles. So I think that'll happen again. But obviously, seven sheds won't be around for that much swing. But I hope... Other people will keep doing the thing right and keep making beer that ah that they want to make that has some authentic connection.
01:01:32
Speaker
um And eventually that younger market might come back to it. But um I'm not about to say how it's going to happen or if it's going to happen. I hope it happens. Have there been changes, you know, or evolutions that you've noticed over the last, you know, whether it's 10, 20, 30 years within beer or hospitality that you have looked and gone, that is good, that's better than how things were, you know, earlier on?
01:01:58
Speaker
I think women have been included as beer consumers. That that wasn't the case when we started. you know It was very much a bloke's universe. So I'm happy that that's happened, but probably not as much as Catherine would hope that's happened.
01:02:13
Speaker
um Yeah, look, I don't know what else. you know There's a lot of things going here from a small business perspective perspective.
01:02:26
Speaker
It's not, you know, I don't know whether I'd be wanting open a small business at this stage of any description, given what you've got to jump through compared to what we had to jump through. yeah So people who might want to follow their dreams, which is basically what we did on a wing and a prayer and an oily rag, I don't think that's possible anymore.
01:02:46
Speaker
And that's a bit sad. um But, that's life, as they say. And what about if you know you you sort look at you know what you have achieved, you know i guess focusing specifically on maybe the last couple of decades, not just with the the brewery, but the tourism side of things.
01:03:03
Speaker
If you were to sort of look and go, well, that you know these are the things that we're really, yeah we're we're really happy that we did, with you know or that you'd like to think you know people outside would go but That's what Seven Shares, that's what the you know the tourism trail, that's what these guys brought to the area, that's what they stood for.
01:03:20
Speaker
So from a legacy perspective, if you like, is that what you're sort of thinking? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. but The tasting trail, absolutely. And we we both have been very much engaged in that process and are very proud of what has been achieved there.
01:03:35
Speaker
um So that's it started off as the Cradle to Coast Tasting Trail. It's now Tasting Trail Tasmania, but it's very much focused on our region, northwest Tasmania. um ah In the early days, when we actually put together our first um grant application, when we first set up the brewery, um there was a ah piece of um policy, if you like, around or not policy, but a document around called From Source to Sensation, which was about everything that you could um need for a five course meal grows in North West Tasmania or is produced in North West Tasmania out of local produce. And it is, it's a beautiful region and and we're very proud to live here and and be a part of that.
01:04:18
Speaker
And And so the Tasting Trail certainly is a legacy that we're proud to leave behind. um Obviously other people running that now, but it's something that we helped to create.
01:04:30
Speaker
um Taste of the North West, I'm not sure where that's going. that that is ah um Again, that's been an event that was running from 2009, I think, through to current.
01:04:42
Speaker
So we were very much involved with setting that up. We were involved with... um setting up the um procedures so that people could carry on after we like I was involved with that as well but not for as long as really was but yeah so helping to make that event that local community event which is broader than just local community but very much focused on being free to the public and about um the regional produce so very much focused on our northwest region of Tasmania so
01:05:16
Speaker
um we've We've done a lot of work that's um basically volunteer work. like um i don't think that we've necessarily gotten back any generated income consistent with what the effort that we've put into those projects. But the what has been beautiful about all of those projects is just the networks and the people that we've met and worked with along the way. So arms I hope that we'll be remembered for those things as well as for producing amazing beer, which I think that we have done right from the start. And we've changed a lot of locals' perceptions and other people's perceptions, but the locals are the ones that we see and hear from the most.
01:06:00
Speaker
um about, you know, what their experience of beer Yeah, and I think even maybe almost well whether it was going happen anyway or maybe on the back of, you know, COVID stopping people travelling or people, you know, umm having less money, stay more local, is that, you know, lot of small breweries as they have sort of become...
01:06:19
Speaker
tight you tighten the bells or whatever have become more locals and community focused this this is my sort of hope you know the the good that will come from this era as people have had to shrink or you know um sure what's the not broaden their horizons whatever the opposite broaden their horizons tighten their horizons is that they're a greater focus on your own local community your own few suburbs or whatever will hopefully you know foster a stronger um and deeper engagement with local breweries. You won't just be going, oh, that's the cool IPA. I'm going to go and chase now.
01:06:50
Speaker
It's like, I've got this local brewery. I understand what this industry is about. I know the people there. And hopefully that, you know, you talk about community and local a lot and networks. I think that is something that beer is still very good at, even if it's struggling in other areas.
01:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's not the person that comes and buys one because they want to try the new beer that has kept us afloat for 17 years. Yeah. it's It's the people that come and buy carton, you know, every two or three months, whatever.
01:07:18
Speaker
um it's It's the people that come and sit in our cellar door and they don't have that opportunity anymore. But it's those people that have kept us alive. It's not the chasing the new beer, taste it, rate it, whatever.
01:07:31
Speaker
what What have you been doing with your weekend since finally closing the door after 17 years? You just sat there, sort of, you know, automatically go out there, turn the key and go, hang on, I don't need to do this.
01:07:43
Speaker
Yeah, well, I haven't taken up golf, but um I am still getting up at 5.15. I need to go to the Lodzistan Harvest Market as long as we've got stock. of Look, I'm finding things to do. Thanks for asking, James.
01:07:58
Speaker
We actually went to Guatemala for the first time. Well, I won't know what that is. I know you won't, but yeah look it up. But it is, um yeah, we've reclaimed a weekend that we didn't have.
01:08:11
Speaker
But look, um it's going back to that point about the local market. I think one of the most fulfilling things we're seeing, and and before COVID, we always relied on a on on the tourist season. We got a real...
01:08:23
Speaker
you know, that two months around Christmas and beyond, we used to get a surge of people coming in and that that was a huge cash flow. But since COVID, we haven't seen it. and its It's not just COVID, it's economic turndown stuff. But one of the most fulfilling things was to see some of our local regulars engaging with you know international visitors from Singapore on our debt, saying, oh, you know why did you come to Seven Chats?
01:08:49
Speaker
And that was a lovely thing to see our local regular customers engaging with international tourists and and basically selling our product for us. So it's been an interesting journey.
01:09:02
Speaker
You know, it's been a lot of highlights and a lot of fulfilments and very few regrets, I have to say. Yep. Excellent. yeah You've never never come across as people who have regret regretted anything you're doing. i You sort of found found the right place and found under the way to do things that, you you know, you wanted to do with your time.
01:09:23
Speaker
I think so. And someone said it me other day, and I, you know, someone said, you've done it your own way. And like, well, have we? Yeah, I guess we have. You know, we didn't we distributed our own products for the first 16 years. We did try a distributor for a year, the last year, just to see how that went.
01:09:41
Speaker
um But to me, that was just obvious. And, you know. ringing endorsement for a distributor is what you're saying. Oh, look, I don't think that was a combination of things. I think it just reinforced to me how tough the market is, yeah how tough the the whole hospitality industry is at this stage. So that was an eye-opener.
01:10:03
Speaker
Look, I think you' find a good distributor, fine. But I think it was important the early days for us to go and, when I was going and picking up empty kegs from venues, to actually meet the the managers and people who were working behind the bar because they were the people that were selling your beer.
01:10:20
Speaker
And I thought that was very important. A distributor, they're not going to love your product as much as you do. um and And I so you know i thought that was that was an important part of what we did.
01:10:32
Speaker
It became less important when the competition arrived. and And I guess, and and and talking of loving what you do, this might it might be a nice one to sign off with. yeah ah yeah You're talking about selling through the last of your product.
01:10:45
Speaker
What's will you be keeping at home that isn't going to be sold? What are the beers that there's going to few cases stashed away that... Well, unfortunately, Catherine's going through the Stark Raven start pretty quickly. There will be some, you know, unfortunately, the slow sellers. So the cherry sour, the barrel aged stuff.
01:11:06
Speaker
um The last bottle of smoking bagpipes went today. I had the last bottle of smoking bagpipes before this interview. so And it was bloody delicious.
01:11:17
Speaker
be The thing is, you can always still make all these beers. if I can on a homebrew basis. You're quite right. And i am be that's the challenge before me.
01:11:29
Speaker
And I don't think I can, you know, um it's in my DNA. I can't not make stuff. So I think that's... That's what I'll be doing out in the shed in a very small scale just for our consumption.
01:11:41
Speaker
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Willie and Catherine. This has been great. It's been pleasure. Welcome. Cheers. Cheers.
01:11:56
Speaker
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01:12:10
Speaker
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01:12:25
Speaker
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01:12:39
Speaker
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01:12:54
Speaker
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