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Ep 10. Mark Longbottom, CEO Heart Kids New Zealand: People, Purpose and Podcasting!
54 Plays4 years ago
“Less about egos and logos and let’s think more about mission and (those) whose lives we are trying to help and change... People first, Mission always.”
With 12 babies every week born with Congenital Heart Defects in New Zealand and just one specialist hospital in the entire country that can provide treatment, Heart Kids New Zealand provides a lifeline of vital care and support for children, young people and families affected by these incurable conditions.
Mark Longbottom is CEO of Heart Kids New Zealand by day and podcast host of the Purposely Podcast by night.
Mark lived in the UK and worked in the UK voluntary sector for nearly 20 years before moving back to his home country of New Zealand in 2019. In this episode we talk about the differences between the charity sectors in New Zealand and the UK, the work of Heart Kids, and of course Jacinda Arden!
We share our experiences podcasting and why we think its a good idea for charities to consider launching their own podcasts.
Recorded December 2020.
Guest Biography
Mark has 25 years of nonprofit experience both in the UK and New Zealand, leading fundraising, events, service delivery, community engagement, and commercial functions in well-known charities such as The Prince's Trust, MS Society, Terrence Higgins Trust, Auckland City Mission, New Zealand Aids Foundation and Auckland Foundation.
Mark is currently Chief Executive of Heart Kids New Zealand, a charity providing lifelong care and support to children, young people and families impacted by childhood heart defects or CHDs.
Previous to that he was Head of the St. James's Place Charitable Foundation for over a decade. The Foundation is the seventh largest corporate foundation in the UK and it is the charitable arm of St. James’s Place Wealth Management.
Mark is also the Founder of the Purposely Podcast, interviewing inspirational people. Purposely was set up to amplify the stories of founders and leaders of nonprofits, charities, for-purpose businesses, as well as social entrepreneurs.
Mark’s hope is that Purposely will inspire other people to make a positive and lasting difference to the lives of people living in our communities and those who need the help the most.
Links
https://heartkids.org.nz/
https://www.purposelypodcast.com/
With 12 babies every week born with Congenital Heart Defects in New Zealand and just one specialist hospital in the entire country that can provide treatment, Heart Kids New Zealand provides a lifeline of vital care and support for children, young people and families affected by these incurable conditions.
Mark Longbottom is CEO of Heart Kids New Zealand by day and podcast host of the Purposely Podcast by night.
Mark lived in the UK and worked in the UK voluntary sector for nearly 20 years before moving back to his home country of New Zealand in 2019. In this episode we talk about the differences between the charity sectors in New Zealand and the UK, the work of Heart Kids, and of course Jacinda Arden!
We share our experiences podcasting and why we think its a good idea for charities to consider launching their own podcasts.
Recorded December 2020.
Guest Biography
Mark has 25 years of nonprofit experience both in the UK and New Zealand, leading fundraising, events, service delivery, community engagement, and commercial functions in well-known charities such as The Prince's Trust, MS Society, Terrence Higgins Trust, Auckland City Mission, New Zealand Aids Foundation and Auckland Foundation.
Mark is currently Chief Executive of Heart Kids New Zealand, a charity providing lifelong care and support to children, young people and families impacted by childhood heart defects or CHDs.
Previous to that he was Head of the St. James's Place Charitable Foundation for over a decade. The Foundation is the seventh largest corporate foundation in the UK and it is the charitable arm of St. James’s Place Wealth Management.
Mark is also the Founder of the Purposely Podcast, interviewing inspirational people. Purposely was set up to amplify the stories of founders and leaders of nonprofits, charities, for-purpose businesses, as well as social entrepreneurs.
Mark’s hope is that Purposely will inspire other people to make a positive and lasting difference to the lives of people living in our communities and those who need the help the most.
Links
https://heartkids.org.nz/
https://www.purposelypodcast.com/
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Transcript
Charity Mission vs Personal Branding
00:00:00
Speaker
Let's about egos and logos and let's think more about mission and who's life we're trying to help and change and if we're not helping them change the life of we're not making an impact on that particular course then stop.
Season 2 Introduction & Host
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm Olivia O'Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.
00:00:55
Speaker
Today, I have a very special guest all the way from Auckland in New Zealand. Kiwi Mark Longbottom is the CEO of HeartKids New Zealand by Day and podcast hosts of the Purposely podcast by Night.
Guest Introduction: Mark Longbottom
00:01:08
Speaker
With 12 babies every week born with congenital heart defects in New Zealand and just one specialist hospital in the entire country that can provide treatment, HeartKids New Zealand provides a lifeline of vital care and support for children and families affected by this incurable condition.
00:01:26
Speaker
Mark lived in the UK and worked in the UK voluntary sector for nearly 20 years before moving back to his home country of New Zealand. In this episode, we talk about the differences between the charity sectors in New Zealand and the UK, the work of heart kids, and of course, just into our turn. We share our own experiences podcasting and why we think it's a good idea for charities to launch their own podcasts. I hope you enjoy the show.
Mark's First Job in Charity
00:01:54
Speaker
Hi Mark, welcome to the show. So great to have you with us. Yeah, really good to be on the show and excited about our conversation. Yes, I must admit, I'm really excited to be interviewing a fellow podcaster. And you have the added honour of being the first international guest on the Charity CEO podcast calling in all the way from Auckland in New Zealand. Yeah, 12,000 miles away and opposite ends of the day.
00:02:19
Speaker
I know, I know that we managed to sort of get it in sensible times, sort of early morning for you and late night for me, so it's not too bad. Yeah. So Mark, I think you know that I like to start the show with an icebreaker round of some get to know your questions. So if you're ready, let's get going. Sure.
Childhood Dreams and Family Convictions
00:02:39
Speaker
Question one, what was your first job?
00:02:42
Speaker
First job for me was Australian Outer Beauty, working for the Auckland City Mission, which was a welfare charity. And I joined them to work with children, which didn't quite get off the ground and ended up doing some other stuff for them. But a really good first job for a great charity, helping people in poverty, those who are homeless, and a real learning curve for me personally.
00:03:08
Speaker
Wow. And I know you've sort of taken that through then in terms of the rest of your career as well. So anyway, let's go on with the icebreaker round. Question two, as a child, what did you dream of becoming when you grew up? This is a really easy one for me. I absolutely 100% wanted to be a pro footballer and dreamed of, yeah, I dreamed of being, or playing a goal for Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane.
00:03:36
Speaker
And in fact, I remember this primary school teacher allowing us an hour a week to do what we dreamed of and what we want to do when we're older. So me and a friend just played football for an hour and he shot goals at me because I was the goalkeeper. So yeah, I didn't quite make it. In fact, in my school yearbook,
00:03:54
Speaker
later in life when I was at high school. If you looked up the yearbook, you can see a slightly embarrassing dream to play for Tottenham. What's the reality? We'll move to London and get a season ticket. And that was very future-proof, that prediction. So, yeah, a footballer. Well, that part of your dream did come true because you did move to London and presumably you did get a season ticket to see Tottenham.
00:04:18
Speaker
I did get that season ticket, although because of children, I'll blame four children, but I only did that for one single season, but I got to enough games to sort of be happy. Excellent. So talking about school, the next question is, what was the naughtiest thing you did at school?
00:04:36
Speaker
I was actually really good. So I went to, for a period of time, went to all boys Catholic school where, um, this will shock our younger listeners, but they would cane or strap people who did things wrong. And I managed to go through the whole of those four years without getting either caned or strapped.
00:04:54
Speaker
And then as naughty as it got, I might have blocked up the slide and ended up in the headmaster's office for blocking out the slide and letting people down. But it still doesn't stay, actually. I don't particularly like getting in trouble. It doesn't mean I don't live life on the edge sometimes, because I do. But as long as I don't get in trouble, that's fine. I love that. So killer question for you now, Mark. New Zealand or the UK?
00:05:20
Speaker
That's the hardest question. That is so, so difficult. I mean, it feels like right now, New Zealand's a really easy answer, sadly. And I look back to the UK with the pandemic and think, really hoping it's going to turn around there. For family, this is a long answer, but for family, absolutely. New Zealand for the laid-back lifestyle, for, you know, jandals, shorts, beaches, chillaxing, just hanging.
00:05:46
Speaker
it's definitely New Zealand and in the UK for the kind of intensity of life, access to Europe, the football, of course, they're just the kind of culture I love. And yeah, I'm kind of split between two. Yeah, you're giving a very balanced and diplomatic answer. I tried to convince my parents to immigrate to New Zealand when I was 18. But they didn't really give me much time on that. So I just thought, you know what, I'll just do it myself.
Interviewing a Deceased Friend (Q)
00:06:13
Speaker
So yeah, love both countries.
00:06:16
Speaker
Excellent. So our final icebreaker question. If you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? Bit of a serious answer, I'm afraid, but a very close friend of mine when I was 18, a guy called Jason Capner sadly took his own life. And
00:06:36
Speaker
If I had, you know, that power and I could interview anybody, it would be probably less of an interview, more of a chat, but it would be to touch base with Jason and say kind of why. And, you know, which I know is probably the most serious answer you've had to this question. But, you know, it's not until people have gone and that's very permanent loss and death and a great opportunity would be to speak to him one more time. So,
HeartKids Mission & Challenges
00:07:04
Speaker
yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I really feel that. And actually on that serious note, let's now turn to talking about your day job as the CEO of HeartKids New Zealand, because it's certainly an organization that has a very serious and important cause at its heart, so to speak. Tell us about your organization. What's its mission in Papras? Yeah, so I haven't been in a role too long. So coming up seven months and that's been absolutely fantastic and I feel it's a real privilege to be the chief executive.
00:07:35
Speaker
In terms of mission and vision, the mission is to support all people living with congenital heart defects in New Zealand, not only support, but also to help inform them and their father or family. And another aim is to help to connect them with people who have also had the same lived experience. So we have this really unusual scenario where we actually help people of all ages, even though it's called heart kits,
00:08:03
Speaker
Anyone with a congenital heart defect, we will support when they need it and need our support the most. So in New Zealand, one in every 100 babies is born with congenital heart defects and there's 40 known types of heart defects. So it's really complicated. And each year there's over 500 major surgeries in New Zealand. So, you know, our work is intense and full on and now the need for us is
00:08:32
Speaker
100% there, so what we do is we don't do the medical piece, we don't do the research piece, but we focus on supporting that psychosocial element. You know, people are really run over by congenital heart defects and that affects all elements of their life.
00:08:47
Speaker
And we've got a team of about 40 people operating all around New Zealand, along with some really dedicated volunteers across the country and offering that support to those people in and out of hospital. Because in New Zealand, there's only one major pediatric intensive care unit. There's only one major pediatric surgery hospital, which is in Auckland, which is not the capital, but it's the largest city. There's only one in the whole country. One hospital that can do those
00:09:18
Speaker
pediatric operations, those cardiac operations, exactly. So families, if you can picture the scenario, you might be a family who are diagnosed at the bottom end of the South Island, because these two islands, I'm in the North, and that hospital's in the North. And they have to come up to Auckland for
00:09:36
Speaker
for treatment, for checkups, for those operations. It's usually disturbing to those families. And what we do very simply is we support them in their region, in their town, but also when they're in Auckland. So we bridge those two things for them and help them with the practical things in life as well as some of the emotional things in life.
00:09:55
Speaker
Yes, such an important cause. And I understand, Mark, that you actually have a real personal connection to the charity and its cause. And I'm referring here to the story about your cousin, Kylie. So tell us about Kylie and then how that led to you getting first involved with HeartKids. Yeah. So, you know, first of all, it was a great challenge professionally and
00:10:18
Speaker
You know, on a professional level, I feel like I really understand service delivery charities, which we are. But from a personal level, my cousin Kylie, Kylie Henderson, she was born just after me in the early seventies. And thankfully she was born then and she wasn't born in the sixties because of surgery advances. It gave her a bigger opportunity of surviving. And that's what she has done, survive, which is fantastic. Growing up, I just remember her being different.
00:10:47
Speaker
And I remember her being really celebrated by our family. So it's my sister's brother's child, Kylie, and first cousin. And she had two things that were visible to me. So she had a really large scar on her chest, which was visible to us when we were swimming. So that was really different. And she also had a different sounding voice, which was for when she was born, her brain was starved of oxygen.
00:11:15
Speaker
She had two major surgeries, which I wasn't cognizant of the time, but learned about later. But as a kid growing up, I was just being quite intrigued by it. And then here we go, you know, many, many years later, her and I recently met for lunch and for a coffee, which she had booked, I paid for. And she was giving me a hard time about
00:11:37
Speaker
what I need to do for her now. I'm CEO of Harkins New Zealand in support of her and her life. And she's gone on to a really successful career and overcome doing childcare and overcome some of those difficulties around the brain injury, which kind of just affects her memory. You know, she's very switched on woman, but she has challenges in life.
00:11:59
Speaker
Real serendipity for me, I guess it feels really good to be making a difference to people's lives when I've had that kind of close experience with a cousin and Kylie is going to keep me honest in my role. I love that she was giving you a hard time. She really was and she'll continue to give you a hard time actually. I think the challenge we've got is
00:12:20
Speaker
With children and families, it's the majority of our work and the majority of our focus. And for adults, it's sometimes more complicated. So, you know, these employment issues, housing issues, emotional issues, connecting with other people who have been through the same thing. So some of that stuff. And, you know, we've got like a lot of charities, we've got limited resources.
00:12:40
Speaker
but she will keep me honest, that's for sure. For me, being very selfish, it helps me feel much more connected to the cause because I've been around it for so long and I know what her family went through. Because there's no cure to CHD. Throughout life, there's huge ups and downs and actually real trauma attached to it because you build up to operations and people have to have transplants and whether they're going to find a donor,
00:13:08
Speaker
what's going to happen during the operation and these kind of limitations in life as well. And Kylie definitely had some limitations on sports and other activities. And it Kylie helps me feel connected. So I'm grateful for that. And I am going to do right by her. That's the aim.
COVID-19 Response in New Zealand
00:13:25
Speaker
Excellent. I mean, that's certainly important as the chief exec of any organization. And Mark, thinking a bit more now about the global context, even that you're in New Zealand, I have to say that your prime minister, Jacinta Ardern, has really been hailed as a leader who has handled the whole COVID-19 pandemic really, really well, and without wanting to get too political in terms of comparisons, given that London is currently in lockdown restrictions.
00:13:52
Speaker
I'm really curious to know how things are right now in New Zealand with respect to the virus and social restrictions, and also how the pandemic has impacted heart kids. Yeah, sure. On a New Zealand context, we are very grateful that Jacinda Oderda is our Prime Minister.
00:14:12
Speaker
We had very clear communication from her from the very beginning of the pandemic. And I think that wasn't for me, that was sort of illustrated by my children often knowing more than I did about the restrictions we had when we were in lockdown, but just that.
00:14:27
Speaker
feeling of reassurance that they had and feeling of safe. So she's done an incredible job. She's a very modern, young prime minister and she has used, you know, she's used TikTok, Twitter, all those social media things to get her messages across. But I think one of the reasons why New Zealand's fared well is, apart from the obvious isolation, small population,
00:14:51
Speaker
is growing up, we have a real sense and it's part of our curriculum at school around responding to disasters. So we have a load of earthquakes, which famously in Christchurch killed a whole lot of people, but we have a whole lot of volcanoes, volcanic incidents, and it's just part of your curriculum at school and kind of jumping under death. So I think when these kind of
00:15:17
Speaker
The pandemic response kicked in and they talked about these different levels and we moved in and out these levels. It all felt really kind of racially normal for New Zealanders, I think. In terms of the impact on hot kids, there's no doubt, like our income is down 30%, but this is where the government kicked in.
00:15:34
Speaker
and made a real difference. They made capital available to businesses and including charities very, very swiftly, almost instantaneously. We went into this really strict lockdown for about seven weeks in the end. We didn't think it was going to be seven weeks, but it was, to the point where you could only go to the supermarket and you could only walk a mile or two from your house. At the time, there was that real
00:15:57
Speaker
a team of five million people in New Zealand, you really feel like you're part of something. The plan all along was to go hard, which was quite a New Zealand saying, go hard and nail it. Annihilation of the pandemic was where we went for. That was March time and then fast forward to August. Psychologically, that was harder because we had another outbreak in Auckland because people are still coming into the
00:16:22
Speaker
Country even though they're isolating so the virus jumped out of the border into the community and we had we didn't have a lot down i think psychologically that was probably more difficult to help kids what's been really tough is interrupted.
00:16:36
Speaker
operation schedules. So those families I talked about that are isolated at other parts of New Zealand, you know, suddenly had their either surgery or appointment with the cardiologist stopped or delayed. So that was really tough. And hands up to Starship Hospital, which is one just at the moment we're really close relationship with, they made sure that didn't happen and locked down to and planned really well for that. But you know, with children, when you've got your, your mum and the father, you've got
00:17:04
Speaker
three or four kids, you've got a kid with a congenital heart defect, they've got lowered immunity, you've got other children to concern yourself with. It's been really tough for our families and a lot of uncertainty about what they can and can't do. So to wrap it up, really, New Zealand being the decision we are right today, which is very normal existence, you know, people are going to watch all blacks and stadiums, these crowded bars, life is
00:17:31
Speaker
almost normal. You get a reminder you're walking down the streets of Auckland and you'll come across a COVID hotel and that's what that is it's a two-week isolation period when returning Kiwis are coming back because they're still coming back in their droves and doing a two-week isolation and you get a reminder then that life's not completely normal and then also on public transport we're wearing masks as well as a precaution but yeah we feel very lucky we've got family and Fano in England and my in-laws live there
00:18:01
Speaker
My brother-in-law's just had COVID recently, and feel desperately sad for the fact that they've locked down for six or seven months now. My law, especially I think in the 60s, both had cancer recently, and they feel very isolated at times, and also they just can't wait to break out of that restriction.
Comparing Charity Sectors: NZ vs UK
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, hopefully that answers your question.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yes, I know coming from the cancer sector myself that there's so many people whose cancer diagnoses and treatments etc are being delayed. Cancer Research UK here is predicting something like 3 million people have had delays and that we're going to see more than 200,000 deaths actually due to delays in accessing healthcare.
00:18:50
Speaker
So I think potentially things are going to get worse. But it's really interesting to hear that actually in New Zealand, the culture played a big role in everybody pulling together. And as you said, Mark, this whole concept of we're one team and go hard to nail it.
00:19:07
Speaker
has really helped you, which I don't think here there's really that sense of a cohesive effort either for various reasons, and I don't think that the government has been great in actually pulling everybody together anyway, but not to dwell on that too much. I'd like to continue more on this theme of New Zealand versus UK, but more in the charity sector context, because I think you're actually very uniquely placed to talk about this.
00:19:34
Speaker
You're back in New Zealand now, but you've actually spent about 20 years working in the charity sector in the UK. And I'm curious to know about what differences you have seen with respect to the charity sector in both countries. Are attitudes to philanthropy and charity different in New Zealand versus the UK? What's your perspective on that?
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, good, good point. There's sort of probably three different ways I could discuss it. So on the attitude to charity, if you just took it sort of attitude, I think that Britain is incredibly generous. And it's, you know, if you look at the history of Britain with sort of parish
00:20:11
Speaker
set up and that's looking after people within their parishes and then broadly out to huge support for good causes and charities. So it's a really developed sector in the UK. New Zealand, there's more of a I'll do it myself mentality. So we've got 27,000 charities in New Zealand and a population of 5 million people, which is an incredible number. Wow. And I think there's a sort of attitude in New Zealand where like,
00:20:38
Speaker
I can do this better myself. This is a slight, I don't know, bloody mindedness or pigheadedness or just she'll be right mate, I'll sort this. A lot of charities, which means for really limited resources that spread quite thinly, and that's been a shock coming back. I've worked here before, I've had held, as I mentioned earlier, all considered missions for four years and I've worked for a New Zealand AIDS Foundation for a year. In terms of resources,
00:21:07
Speaker
It's a lot of here. There's a lot less trust and foundations, a lot less accessible funding. You have to work really hard for it. A lot of focus on community fundraising events. So that would be one element to it. Where I have seen more sophistication in New Zealand so far is this realisation in the probably last
00:21:28
Speaker
four or five years that traditional program design to enact some sort of change on someone's life or support someone to make a difference to their lives. That sort of top-down approach where a charity design something rolls it out and then hopes for good has been kind of ripped up here a little bit and I think that's probably helped by the fact that it's a relatively small country and things can
00:21:49
Speaker
you know, when we fail, we fail fast, we can rip things up and start again relatively easily. So the word I'm thinking of really on that talk about that is, I call it kind of co design, where or participatory design, you know, really fully involving stakeholders in the design of the charitable program. And this, this is kind of motivated by New Zealand, surprisingly, even though it's, you know, clean green, beautiful, huge tourism until COVID. But
00:22:19
Speaker
got really high stats around teen suicide. In fact, highest in the OECD countries has got really high stats when it comes to obesity, illiteracy, and educational attainment, which is really shocking. And it's kind of meant that the sector, like if you took the New Zealand charity sector as a kind of whole, is really trying to do things differently and be really innovative. And then it can be summarised by the fact that they are
00:22:45
Speaker
going to the groups of people who are struggling the most and they're saying, right, we've got this wrong. What's the problem and help us design the solution? And I think New Zealand feels a bit more ahead there. In terms of where it's a bit behind, I would say would be I've mentioned money and then also, you know, there's possibly not the talent pool here. So, you know, like there's a huge amounts of experience and knowledge in the UK around
00:23:12
Speaker
management, people doing frontline delivery stuff. But I think that's probably going to change because we've had a huge influx of chemists coming back who've had overseas experience. So that will also impact on the charity sector.
Purposely Podcast Inspiration
00:23:24
Speaker
But yeah, those sort of differences, I would say, were evident to me when I came back recently.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that, Mark, in terms of applying principles of design thinking to solving society's big problems. And as you say, given that the country is smaller, that perhaps there is the ability to enact change faster. And that sounds really promising and looks like you are certainly making headway in that area.
00:23:54
Speaker
Now, Mark, we absolutely have to come on to talk about podcasts. And given that we both have podcast shows, yours is the Purposely podcast. And I love your strapline interviewing inspirational people doing good. And I think it's quite apt that I'm now interviewing you as an inspirational person who is doing good in the world. That's too kind. I don't feel like one.
00:24:17
Speaker
No, you absolutely are. But I'm curious to hear, Mark, tell us about your inspiration for the show itself and how did you get started? Yeah, I love talking about my podcast. Go for it. For a long time now.
00:24:33
Speaker
I don't know, the same as the case for you, but I've been listening. I love running. Someone years ago, this is really starting at the beginning, but years ago, someone laughed at me. I was working for the Terrett-Siggins Trust and wasn't in the best shape. I probably hit the London nightlife too hard. We had marathon runners and someone said, I said I was going to do the London marathon. They laughed and I was like, ah.
00:24:55
Speaker
I'll show you so that started I didn't do it and that started a huge love affair running so running then met listening to stuff and music I like but I prefer listening to people speak more so an obsession with podcasting or podcasts which actually is relatively new phenomenon actually so
00:25:16
Speaker
I remember having to sync my iPod with whatever stuff I was downloading and that being difficult. But I listened to a lot of entrepreneurial podcasts and it had a slight obsession with people who had overcome challenges to really smash it in life and create a company, sell it for a lot of money or just turn their lives around. And then when I came back from the UK recently, I had a time to reflect certainly during COVID, which is around how could I
00:25:46
Speaker
do two things, which is shine a light on all those inspirational startup stories, but in our sector, the charity sector, you know, for purpose, not for profit, but also on a really selfish level. How could I kind of re-enact my conversations I used to have? So my most recent role in the UK was head of foundation for the St James's Place Charitable Foundation. And I would go to London and have four or five
00:26:13
Speaker
fantastic conversations with inspirational people. When I got back to New Zealand and reflected on those stories and who they were, I was like, wow, that's some great content there. Those people are incredible.
00:26:27
Speaker
Dr. Sarah Fain, who ran a charity that connected Hertfordshire and Afghanistan, or Mark Johnson, who was going to end recidivism, all these incredible stories. I realized that for me on a personal level, I could connect the UK and me back up again. It would be purposeful, so that's where the name came from. The conversation would be purposeful.
00:26:53
Speaker
you know, like, I can't keep all these amazing stories for myself. So let's share them. And then you sort of go on that exploration journey around how do you do this? Because being technology aren't necessarily friends, which is kind of an unusual thing for a podcast to say, but it's a constant challenge for me. But hey, the one thing I'm really enjoying is the conversations and just kind of put those charity
00:27:15
Speaker
founders or leaders on the same platform as the digital tech people or the entrepreneurs that get a lot of the limelight. Really loving it. I'm 25, 26 episodes in. My wife's been incredibly
00:27:31
Speaker
patient and our life is crazy some CEO by day for children mid-evening and then from sort of nine to one in the morning it's podcast a mark and it's recording marketing but yeah but really enjoying it.
00:27:46
Speaker
That's just brilliant. I must admit, I'm a relative newcomer to the world of podcasting, but I really love the medium of podcasts. And as you say there, Mark, it really enables you to essentially bottle the inspiration from a conversation that you had and then spread that message.
00:28:01
Speaker
to a much, much wider audience. That was certainly my motivation for starting this podcast, the Charity CEO podcast, was to have conversations with inspirational charity leaders like yourself and spread messages of best practice, of overcoming challenge to other leaders in the sector. I think it's a brilliant way to communicate with and really engage with an audience. Just on that, I don't know if you find this and you probably do,
00:28:30
Speaker
Because it's often quite long, aren't they? So, you know, mine is sort of 45 minutes long, but I would run for an hour and I'd really connect like and I, I'm a strange individual in that I'm quite a visual person, but at the same time I read on audio, I really connect with the person and there's a much deeper connection than say, watching a video for me. And yeah, congratulations on your podcast, because I think
00:28:56
Speaker
No, thank you. I think both you and I have probably been on some journeys around technology, but what is possible because of modern day technology is quite phenomenal. I was producing the early episodes just with an iPhone effectively and a pair of headphones. It's got a bit more complicated, and that's including publishing, which is phenomenal that we can do that in this modern age and not predicted by me 20 years ago.
Podcasting for Charities
00:29:21
Speaker
I think it's Tim Ferriss who said that there is always an audience for long form and podcasts is certainly sort of a deep dive long form. And I find it the medium that is most easy to consume. As you say, you can do it when you're running, you're out and about, you can stop, you can go fast, you can go slow. And it's intimate because the person, most people listen with headphones or earphones and sort of you feel like you're having a really intimate conversation.
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, you feel like you're part of it, don't you? Just run last thing and not be quiet about podcasts. But if you asked me the question, what would be my advice for people wishing to take this up, this don't value sleep, I would say probably a good thing if you've got a day job. I would say also do something authentic, do something that really, a topic that you love, people that you love speaking to if it's an interview format, but you've got to love doing it.
00:30:13
Speaker
and you've got to love the subject matter, I think, and that will come through. And kind of something that you, for me, it got to the conversation that I realized I knew a little bit, which helped me with it. And I think that's crucial too. Yeah, absolutely, Mark. And on that point of launching your own podcast, do you think more charities should look at launching their own podcast in order to get their impact stories out there and in order to engage with their supporters more?
Advice for New Charity CEOs (Q)
00:30:40
Speaker
I absolutely think so. I think the only thing I would say with that is
00:30:43
Speaker
try and go with entertainment in mind, or, you know, also engagement in mind. Because my early sort of episodes, I kind of went with facts more, and then realised, I think, that people were more interested in the story.
00:30:58
Speaker
So I think I would have 100%. In fact, we're doing that at HeartCAD, so not surprisingly. Not surprisingly, we are working on a series at the moment, not with me being the interviewer. I'm going to step aside, but I'll certainly help with production. Our podcast, and I think this is going to be hugely vital, valuable to our members, our service users, but it's going to be focused on adults who would, you know, form a CHD,
00:31:26
Speaker
They've overcome, like Kylie, hurdles with their life and of doing something awesome. They've got a career, they're maybe still doing sport. They've had a child where they didn't think that was possible. So yeah, watch the space, but Hot Kids New Zealanders are producing one of those at the moment.
00:31:44
Speaker
I think with that, you just need to be really careful that when you're interviewing people, if that's your format because not everyone does interviewing, that person's got to be comfortable because you're not trying to be an investigative journalist. You're just trying to share their story and you're going to be comfortable that you're going to share their story. That's the difference between, I think, a charity doing it, being right or doing right by their services or the clients or their members.
00:32:08
Speaker
Yes, I think it's really important to be respectful of the stories. And in any context, not just in a podcast context, but even when we are creating case studies that talk about the impact of a charity's work, I think it's really important that the beneficiary or services story is told in the way that they're comfortable with and respects their journey.
00:32:29
Speaker
Absolutely. The podcast we've done recently, which is kind of people talking about the experience, but sort of being very clear that that's just their experience and it's not necessary represented to fall and would be something to keep in mind. But yeah, I think a great thing for charities to do. Yes. And talking about journeys, Mark, I'd like to now come back to think about your own leadership journey. And what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO?
00:32:57
Speaker
I think it's possibly not to say too much, not to make quick decisions, to buy your time, take your time, listen and learn. A lot of people will say the same thing around your first 100 days, which charity CEOs or any CEO of anything or boss of anything would say they get that time.
00:33:19
Speaker
Because you've got to really see it from your perspective and understand what's going on. You've also, I think, got to build relationships with people. There might be things that you make quick decisions on. Don't bow to the pressure, maybe, of the trustees who've hired you to do something quickly. Because ultimately, whatever decisions you've made, they've got to be your decisions, like the buck stops with you. And that's challenging. I think it's a relatively lonely, it's probably
00:33:47
Speaker
a well-used term, but it's a relatively lonely thing being a charity CEO. Lonely because you've been hired by a board, but they're not your peers. You have your team that's working for you, but ultimately, you're their boss. You have typically relatively limited resources.
00:34:09
Speaker
So, you know, to do business as usual, to do change, to do development is tricky. You often don't have big departments of people to help you. Like in my previous role, I was sort of one foot in the corporate sector, one foot in the charity sector. And we didn't, you know, I had resources, I had a human resources team, I had an IT team, or my computer failed and go down and get it sorted. And often in the charity sector, we just don't have those luxuries. So I think to counter that,
00:34:37
Speaker
It's really important to get really good people around you. Even if they don't work for the organization, maybe they're doing a pro bono and really work on building that support network and all resources support would make a real difference.
00:34:55
Speaker
It's been a real, it's been brilliant. I've only been, as I said, in a relatively short space of time, but we have a CEO support network where we meet five times a year, and we talk through issues, and it's Chatham House Rules, and everything sits in the room, stays in the room, but I think those are really important when it's kind of a relatively lonely role. I'll pause for a minute, but one piece of advice I got from my mother-in-law, Claudia McVie, who
00:35:23
Speaker
was CEO of a charity called Ten of Us in Wales, a cancer charity. She did this and she basically instructed me to do it.
00:35:32
Speaker
A note from the CEO every Friday. Now it sounds ridiculously simple, but I found it hugely beneficial and really valuable because it's informal. It's a chance for your team or your stakeholders. Like I've got my board on my distribution list. I've got the employees. I've got volunteers and it's whatever's happened that week, whatever's, and it mixes between strategic stuff.
00:35:58
Speaker
service delivery stuff, what's happening in the funding space, but a practical tech would be always to do some form of communication that is real and authentic and is about you. And you can kind of, you can, you can gain real value in that and people see you as a human beings. I think that's one of the things with the pandemic and all of us from home working.
00:36:18
Speaker
leaders are suddenly seen as very human all of a sudden, because you see the backdrop of their bedroom, you see what the wear is, not always formal. And I really like that. And hopefully my emails, I think it's been well received. I've had some great feedback from it.
00:36:33
Speaker
Yes, I know what you mean. I mean, I used to do a Monday morning pulse with, you know, gather everybody together who was in the office and just have an informal chat about what was coming up for the week. And obviously sort of in the pandemic situation where everybody's working from home, that's not really possible anymore. So a Friday afternoon note from the CEO that then goes out to everybody in the organization, I think is a great way.
00:36:57
Speaker
to connect with everybody. And certainly on social media, we've seen a lot of charity CEOs be a lot more prolific and a lot more open about sharing different things. And that's been great to see. And I absolutely agree in terms of it's important to have a network and collaboration in the UK. We have Akivo, which is the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organizations that I think is great and sort of facilitates a lot of this collaborative working
00:37:25
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's really refreshing and pleasing to know that actually in New Zealand, in the sector, you also have that kind of support and collaboration. Yeah, hugely important, I think. Because, you know, CEOs are human too.
00:37:40
Speaker
Absolutely. I like that. The CEO is a human being too. So Mark, we've come now to the end of the podcast and I just want to ask if you have any final thoughts or reflections? I mean, what is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? I think we have a wonderful sector. I've loved looking from afar and I love the
00:38:05
Speaker
never more needed campaign. I've loved what people are doing. I think people are being more open, they've been more collaborative. And I've used this before, and it's probably fits in with my own personality. But yeah, let's think more or less about egos and logos.
00:38:24
Speaker
I know you've very kindly shared that on one of your previous podcasts, but let's think about egos and logos and let's think more about mission and whose life we're trying to help and change. If we're not helping them change their life and we're not making an impact on that particular cause, then stop. I remember coming across a charity that had a defined stop date. Their mission was going to be over.
00:38:48
Speaker
really analyzing why we're doing it, how we're doing it, and are we delivering on our mission is crucial. That's certainly something I'll live by. People first mission always is something I'm trying to live by, and it's a constant battle, right? Because people issues everywhere, and we're only as good as our teams, but the mission has to be the most important thing, and for us that's
00:39:14
Speaker
our CHD members, our CHD community, and in five years, ten years, their lives are better because of our support, and they feel more informed, they feel more connected, they have hope for the future, maybe through research or other things. So yeah, that would be my thoughts, just to summarise.
00:39:32
Speaker
I love that. Let's put aside logos and egos and focus on delivering the mission for all the beneficiaries and service users who the charity is really there to serve. Mark, this has been such a great conversation and that's such a great note to end on. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. My pleasure. Thank you.
00:39:55
Speaker
What a great conversation with Mark Longbottom, CEO of HeartKids New Zealand. It was so interesting to hear his Kiwi perspective on the UK charity sector and so much more. I love the New Zealand go hard spirit and Mark's focus on purpose, not profit. If only we could bottle up inspiration to spread around the world. Well, with this podcast and with Mark's purposely podcast, I hope we managed to do just that.
00:40:22
Speaker
My next guest is the amazing Deborah Alcock Tyler, CEO of the Directory of Social Change. Deborah's interview will drop on 15th February. Hit that subscribe button now and the episode will automatically download when released.
00:40:36
Speaker
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00:41:01
Speaker
Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details and to submit suggestions or questions for future guests. Thank you for listening.