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Why you should niche down - Taylor de la Fuente
144 Plays3 years ago
Happy Friday! Today I have a bonus episode with Taylor from Lemon Tree Editorial. Today we dive deep on why you should niche down.
Taylor de la Fuente is a Copywriter For Wedding Pros Writing bold copy for badass wedding vendors. Fast, inclusive & done-for-you websites + more Ready to make fat stacks? 💵 Connect with Taylor lteditorial.com/instagram https://www.lteditorial.com/ https://www.instagram.com/lteditorial/ Connect with Carissa https://www.instagram.com/carissawoophotography https://www.instagram.com/carissawooRecommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome back to Get a Heck Yes with me your host, Carissa Wu. If you're loving my podcast, please subscribe and leave me a review. It's going to help me so much and help wedding professionals find out about the podcast. So today I have a very cool guest and her name is Taylor De La Fuente.
00:00:17
Speaker
and she writes bold copy for badass wedding vendors. It's fast, it's inclusive and dumb for you for your websites and more. And she's gonna give you guys amazing tips today on how to make your copy better. So enjoy!
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host, Carissa, and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all. I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle, mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story,
00:01:04
Speaker
time hacks because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly, self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey. I hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon!
Taylor's Personal and Professional Background
00:01:26
Speaker
Hey guys, it's Carissa Woo as you know and I'm here with Taylor De La Fuente. She is an award-winning writer,
00:01:34
Speaker
inclusive language educator, and the CEO of Lemon Tree Editorial. As a copywriter serving the wedding industry, Taylor writes persuasive and personality-packed websites, brochures, and other marketing materials for wedding pros who want to woo prospective couples. Ooh, I like that. Before starting Lemon Tree Editorial, she worked in journalism, SEO, and marketing. Welcome, Taylor!
00:01:58
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're going to woo us today on the Woo Show. Ma'am, that's how you know that this is going to be a good one. Yes. And I was just saying, I love your last name. And you said it's a new last name. Yeah, it's new. I've only had it for about a year, but it rhymes, you know, te de la pointe. It rhymes with my first name. So sometimes when people are like, how do you pronounce that? I'm like, it just rhyme it.
00:02:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, Jamee Tay, the day of one day. Yeah, it does like all of your time. Cool. So tell us like where you're from and a little bit more about you, like how you got started with copywriting. Totally. So I live in Dallas, Texas with my husband, David, where newlyweds, and I have been a writer my entire career. I have a journalism degree and I was a newspaper reporter. I worked in magazines. I worked
00:02:47
Speaker
running the content department of an SEO agency. I did in-house marketing for an energy company. I've done all kinds of stuff, written basically everything for everyone. And I've always had a little writing gig on the side. And a few years ago, I decided that I wanted to turn it into a business. And I did it part time with my full-time job for a while, like most of us start out. Yeah, exactly.
00:03:13
Speaker
COVID happened and I got laid off for my job and I was like, this is my chance. I've been building this thing up and it's been a struggle to maintain the two and give them both the attention. So it just kind of fell in my lap and I turned a sad thing into a happy thing and went full time into my business in very early 2020. So I've been full time for like
00:03:38
Speaker
two years now, which is kind of crazy. So we could call you a pandemic baby. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I started my company in early 2019, March 2019, but then yeah, like a year into it, pandemic happened and I was just like, okay, well, I've been hoping for this moment and here it is. So I'm just going to seize it and invest in this full time. And basically it like took off as soon as I had the time to give to it.
00:04:05
Speaker
Wow. Yeah.
Pandemic Wedding Experience and Business Growth
00:04:06
Speaker
Well, okay. I have so many things to ask you, but I'm going to back it up because I'm a hopeless romantic. So tell me about your wedding. How was it? It was good. I'll be the first person to say that it was not everything that I dreamed of. It was a COVID wedding. I'm a COVID bride. We were originally planning for a 50 person wedding and we ended up having 11 guests, so 13 with my husband and I. So it's not exactly...
00:04:34
Speaker
a Cinderella story, not totally what we were originally hoping for, but it was
00:04:39
Speaker
the design and the space and everything was everything that we ever wanted. And so it just, yeah, I'm again, not gonna lie. I wish that there were more people there and that we had shared that with more people, but it was a really beautiful day and it was really important to us that we didn't put it off just because other things were happening in the world. We wanted to move on with our lives. We had already been engaged for a year and a half. So we did it and there you go.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, you could always throw a party later. And there's always there's always the rest of your lives to throw more parties. So when things like if we ever get through COVID. Okay, so you said your businesses kind of took off pretty fast. And I see that because you're so on fire on Instagram. And I love your feed. And you're working with all the powerful people.
00:05:28
Speaker
We talked about what you were working with Megan Gillicam, and she's a powerhouse for wedding pros. But how did you how do you get your heck yes from your dream clients? Like what's your, what's your heck yes strategy?
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah. I have a few and one of them as you can probably tell already is just like being honest and just telling like being a straight shooter. I have been told from many clients after they hired me that was one of the reasons why was that I was just brave enough to say like here's my honest opinion. But the piece of advice that I give to other people when they ask me this question and I
00:06:07
Speaker
take it myself is to stop worrying so much about selling and just focus on serving and the sale will come naturally. Oh, because I know, Crystal, like basically you and I are both sales experts because you just you're really an expert at doing it on the phone or like in a sales call versus I'm an expert at doing it written. But we basically both are our job is to do the same thing, which is to help people sell. And so like,
00:06:33
Speaker
People always get nervous how I feel so weird about selling or I feel so like pushy or whatever And so I just if you focus on serving you have a problem. I might have a solution Can you tell me a little bit more about your problems? That way I can help you find a solution whether it's me or something else if you approach it from that perspective The sale it just takes the pressure off the sale the person on the other end feels relief you feel relief and it just comes easier and
00:06:59
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I think I learned that, you know, over the years, but I forget that.
Client Service Over Sales Strategy
00:07:04
Speaker
And I think you just saying that it kind of like takes a lot of stress off of my back because, you know, if coaching business is like, OK, just think about your just I'm serving like, yeah, they have their problems. I want to try to book weddings like I've have 12 years of experience. Maybe I could help and maybe I can't. So let's just have a conversation. So I love that.
00:07:27
Speaker
You don't have to know all the answers. You don't have to be 20 steps ahead of everybody. You just have to be three steps ahead of somebody else to be able to help them, to be honest. Yeah, I love that. The Leonardo DiCaprio, catch me if you can. He was always two steps ahead or something. Exactly. You just need to be a little bit ahead of where somebody else is to be able to offer them some help and some advice. You don't need to be president of the universe to be a good business coach.
00:07:54
Speaker
You just need a few years of experience and some clients under your belt and some practice to be able to say, Hey, I've been doing this for a while. I could help you. Like, and that's your whole business model right there. Dude, you make it so easy. Okay. So how we're going to talk all about niching down later in our hot topic, but how did you niche down to working with wedding pros? Yeah, this is, I get this question so often, honestly, from a lot of younger copywriters who will come and say like,
00:08:19
Speaker
Hey, I noticed your work and I really love what you're doing and I'm just wondering like how you got into this at all. So my story starts with a coach, not surprisingly because coaches are amazing and have so much value, but I had started like my last corporate job and the honeymoon phase had worn off. I was not loving it yet again, sitting there going, what is wrong with me that I keep getting these jobs that I think are going to be the thing and they're never the thing?
00:08:46
Speaker
So I emptied my savings account and I hired a career coach and together we did this process based off of a book called Designing Your Life that's written by these two Stanford University professors. Anyway, so through Designing Your Life, there's a lot of different techniques about how to sort of evaluate choices and make intentional design decisions when it comes to
00:09:15
Speaker
things like, in this case, choosing your career. And that's how I figured out that I wanted to own my own business. And then, you know, a little while later, when I was exhausted writing anything for anyone, I basically went through that same process again by myself without the coach and followed their method of figuring out like, who do I want to work with? What makes me happy? Which I am very happy to
00:09:38
Speaker
to go into that and share to your listeners like, what did that look like? But essentially, I made a list of all of the past clients that I had worked with, like my favorite projects. And I wrote down on a piece of paper the actual projects. And then I wrote down the things that I liked and really lit me up about the projects and maybe some of the things that I didn't like. And then I started to look for patterns.
00:10:02
Speaker
the biggest, easiest pattern to see is that they were all website projects and they were all for wedding businesses. And so I was like, well, this is it. I'm going to be the website girl for wedding pros. And here we are. Wow. And I think it ties in with you like getting married too, because you know, it's like the love, the emotion, the romance. It's just, it's very charming. And I see that like in your copy. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean,
00:10:27
Speaker
The thing about copywriting is that most copywriters are not trained to write in the way that I do.
Copywriting Approach and Niching Down
00:10:34
Speaker
because as a copywriter, I've been through that training. I know from experience, it's all about like either cold hard facts, like sort of a journalist's approach or strategy like SEO. And even if it's about the customer, it's always about like a tech company, like you're selling a piece of software or an app or whatever. And it's all very logical and straightforward, but weddings, they're not logical, they're emotional.
00:11:01
Speaker
very much a luxury purchase and you have to appeal to that sense of emotion coming from a buyer. And so the kind of writing that I do, copywriting that I do is focused on how do we
00:11:14
Speaker
talk to the head and the heart at the same time. Oh, interesting. So when you're working with this coach, which is interesting that you're working with, I never heard of like a career coach, but that's so cool. So was it kind of like you went through all these like processes of picking out your past clients that you love? And was it kind of like a ha moment? Like, I love wedding pros, or was it maybe like something always in the back of your head?
00:11:37
Speaker
I didn't know it was definitely an aha moment like I never really put that together. I had always known that I'm a very creative person and I like working with other creative people. But the wedding thing, it didn't I didn't really see it until I wrote it down on paper, which is why I really encourage people don't do it in your head like literally write it down on a piece of paper and you can see the words repeated over and over and you sit there and go
00:12:03
Speaker
Ding, ding, ding, this thing is there. But once I did that, I was able to go, okay, let's break this down. Why were these projects my favorite? Okay, the wedding piece is there. What are all the other pieces there? And then how can I sort of set myself up with almost a checklist of these are the things that I need to be happy at work.
00:12:22
Speaker
And so for me, creativity is one of those things. I need to work with creative people. I need to be given the space to be creative. And so that's why I don't do this work for lawyers or doctors who would probably pay more or tech bros who definitely pay more.
00:12:41
Speaker
is because it's missing that creativity element. And then the other two things for me are I need challenge and I need variety. And so I liked, for example, not choosing, I only write for wedding photographers. That's not enough variety for me. It's kind of the same thing. But if you work for all wedding pros, so I work for photographers, planners, florists, DJs, caterers, it's a similar thing through there.
00:13:08
Speaker
which makes it challenging, but also it's changing every time, so there's variety, and that's challenging. I totally agree with you because that's why I did my podcast for wedding pros and not just wedding photographers, because I get to talk to people like you, copywriters, website designers, DJs, florists, everyone. But we love weddings, so that's so interesting. So going back to your design in your life, I just love this topic because you really
00:13:36
Speaker
you really like took the path of like putting your life into your own hands and not letting like someone dictate like your happiness compared like a day like in the life of you and corporate miserable and maybe like a day in the life of your life now. Yeah, I mean, corporate world. So like my last technically my last job before going into this full time, I was I worked at a marketing agency specifically for interior designers. And you think that that would have been enough for me.
00:14:06
Speaker
like creatively, but it but it wasn't because there was just a lot of pieces. But really, I only had that job for a few months before COVID hit and I got laid off. So really the job that I that started the career coach and that sort of whole journey, I worked at a tech startup in energy space. And so I would come to work and the projects would vary from we're going to come up with a
00:14:33
Speaker
direct marketing campaign like AKA ads or we did a lot of stuff that went in the mail. So like we need something cute and quippy to go with this concept and come up with that and then work with the designer to come up with those things. And those projects really lit me up and I thought they were super fun. But then I would also
Virtual Co-Writing Sessions and Community Building
00:14:52
Speaker
have
00:14:55
Speaker
write this press release with our CEO about announcing how we're doing this thing, like super boring or ghost write this very technical article to be published in a newspaper front page or a magazine, but it's not actually by me, it's by one of our advisors from the company. So now I got to call that person and get their opinion and I have to write it and we tweak it back and forth. And it's things like that where
00:15:20
Speaker
just collectively was not doing it for me. And so I ended up being a really bad employee by the end and I just got my own business stuff on the side. Yeah, I love it, dude. Do you, girl? Every single day that I came in, I was like, oh my God, today's going to be the day that my boss looks over my shoulder and sees that I'm working on this other thing and says something to me.
00:15:43
Speaker
We all do it. I'm really fast. I don't know if anybody ever noticed, but they never cared because I never missed any deadlines or had any problems. Whether or not they noticed, I don't know, but nobody ever said anything to me.
00:15:56
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, you do seem fast because I follow you on Instagram and you're always like, you know, pushing out different content and you're always helping like the community. Like you're saying today you're doing like a co workspace, like virtual co workspace. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. Oh my gosh. That is a new thing. I just did it last month, like out of the blue because I was chatting with one of my past clients who was like, and this, I hear this a lot. Oh, I hate writing. I just hate, hate, hate it.
00:16:26
Speaker
And I have things that I need to get done, but I never get them done. And so I was like, girl, why don't we just get on like a Zoom call and we'll just do some co-working, but it'll just be for writing. And so then of course I was like, uh-huh, co-writing instead of co-working. And since I was already gonna do it for her, I just kind of opened it up for like anybody who follows me on Instagram. And much to my supreme shock, I got like 10 people who were like me, me, me, me. So I've just decided like,
00:16:55
Speaker
Okay well somebody out there liked that and found it helpful and I'm going to be sitting here writing anyway so I may as well do it. So now I've just decided that I'm going to do it the first Monday of every month. So is it like a Zoom session? Yeah I use Google Hangouts because I just think that it's easier but yeah it's basically an hour and a half split into two separate
Fears and Benefits of Niching Down
00:17:15
Speaker
chunks. You bring a project that you have been
00:17:18
Speaker
writing project that you have needing to be working on working on or maybe avoiding and We just everybody goes on mute and we just sit there and work together for 45 minutes So we check in then we do it again and that's it. Oh, that's so cool and you're building your community, too Yeah, I've thought for a long time about like do I want a podcast because I love love love going on other people So thank you for the invitation because I think it's super fun. I
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, you should. I have a girl that launches, she launched my podcast in a month from, I didn't, from idea to launch. So. Oh, okay. Yeah. It was so weird. Like I asked her to go on my podcast podcast and she said no. She's like, what would I talk about? I was like, Oh, podcasting. And she's probably not listening to it.
00:18:06
Speaker
Anyways, let's talk about our hot topic. Tell us about your hot topic and why you chose it. Yeah, so we are talking about niching down because I just really think at the end of the day, choosing a niche has the power to completely transform your business.
00:18:22
Speaker
I love that. That's the cut to the chase version. If your business is stuck or slow or you've lost motivation or whatever, the magic bullet, the secret pill, whatever euphemism you want to use is choosing a niche. Yes. You just said a lot of cool copywriting lingo. I can tell you're a copywriter.
00:18:49
Speaker
Okay, tell us more examples like why wedding photographers are so broad, why they would be so broad, and why would they be scared to niche down? Yeah, well, I'm so glad that you use that word, which is scared because that is the number one reason why people don't choose Anish. And there's really, if you're considering this for your business, there's really two ways to do it. One is
00:19:11
Speaker
in what you do and one is who you do it for. So for example, I am a copywriter. I could write anything for anyone. I chose to niche both what I do and who I do it for. So what I do, I could write anything but I specialize in websites and a few other sales pieces of copy like
00:19:33
Speaker
an email sales sequence or a sales brochure or things like that. But pretty much it's like 90% of what I do is websites and who I do it for is wedding professionals. But I could do websites for anybody. It could be broader than that. It could be smaller than that. And I know people who do both. But in any case, so you can niche down in both of those or just one of those. So if you're considering choosing a niche for your own business, you don't have to do both. You could just pick one.
00:20:03
Speaker
But in terms of, for example, a photographer, why would somebody say, I'm going to choose weddings? You know from your experience as a consumer that if you're looking for what would be something helpful.
00:20:21
Speaker
If you're looking to go out to dinner, there's a million and one restaurants in wherever you live. There's too many choices. You have to sit there and decide, what do I want for dinner? Do I want pizza? Do I want barbecue? Do I want sushi? That's a very relatable example. Everybody knows that. So nobody is ever
00:20:45
Speaker
It's very rare that you would just say, I want to go out to dinner and I'm just going to choose the first restaurant that we drive past or whatever. More often than not, you're going off of what kind of food do they serve? What are my preferences and what I'm looking for? What have other people said about them? And that right there, that whole experience is what your couples are doing when they're coming and looking for you.
00:21:08
Speaker
And it has layers, right? So they're looking for a photographer. They could hire any photographer, but it's probably better if they hire somebody who has experience doing weddings because that's a very unique thing. And then even within that, they can look at and go, well, I want somebody who is a photographer who has experience with weddings and who has experience with
00:21:28
Speaker
this location or this style or this type of ceremony, like a specific religion or whatever. So you can go layers deep. It's kind of like a cake tier. Exactly. Exactly. You can go layers and layers deeper. And the more specific you are, the more you become the obvious choice. But the flip side of that is the more specific you are, the more people you're turning away.
00:21:55
Speaker
the more people you're saying, actually, you know what, we're not a good fit because while I am a photographer and I am a wedding photographer and I am a light and airy wedding photographer, I live in Portland and you live in Indianapolis. And so I'm not an expert in your area and therefore like we're not a good fit.
00:22:14
Speaker
or whatever. There's a million ways that you can draw that scenario. But it's that side of looking at it. It's like the glass half empty version of looking at it and going, oh, there's all these people I'm turning away. What if they wanted to work with me? That would be money in my pocket. That's the part that scares people enough to not make a choice. Would you agree? Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to just apply everything to my business. And it was really hard for me because
00:22:44
Speaker
I just thought of like what I like to shoot most and it was like those downtown kind of industrial hip venues in LA, but then I would be turning down like the garden ones and the sunset beach ones. So I didn't know how to do it. But you know, I think if I had found you, you know, eight years ago,
00:23:05
Speaker
it would have been very helpful because we could have just sat down and brainstormed about what I like, like how you did with your coach and then wrote copy of like the LA photographer that lights like these these hip venues with colorful walls and stuff. And I think
00:23:21
Speaker
that could have been like my niche. So now like, I would say my niche is more like colorful, fun, little quirky, little fun. But as far as like venues, it's not very specific. So I definitely think niching down would would have been very helpful from the beginning. So if you're listening out there, like, and you're looking for a copywriter, this could be very, very helpful to your business and making more money because you know, attract and repel.
00:23:51
Speaker
Exactly, and we can use me as an example because again, I used to write anything for everyone. Then I switched to writing copy, specifically websites for wedding pros. Every single time I booked a new project, it was just more and more and more proof that I was good at that. Now I've got a portfolio full of websites for wedding pros. Now I've got testimonials and Google reviews full of comments from people.
00:24:18
Speaker
like that. So when I go out there and say, I am the website girl for wedding professionals, people like are getting that signal from every angle. They're not like it's all reinforcing one thing. And I become the obvious choice, which again, like you can you can translate that into a lot of things. The most important one being raise your frickin prices. Because
00:24:41
Speaker
I'm not going to pretend that I'm good at everything. I can't take every kind of photo you ever wanted. Here's what I'm really good at is weddings, elopements, whatever you're editing in a way that really highlights the color. Or if you are a beach wedding photographer, I get that there's tides, that the sun changes, that it's a queen, that it stands. All of these pieces, I'm an expert in this thing, and people will pay for expertise.
00:25:09
Speaker
Okay, so that would be tip number one or reason number one, we could do both. But I guess tip for niching down would be niche down as specific as possible and therefore you become the expert and therefore you could raise your prices. So yes, we could tie that into tip number one or reason number one. So I mean, I already told y'all like,
00:25:29
Speaker
pretty much my entire niching story, but just to recap, I was doing everything for everybody. I decided I'm exhausted. I'm not happy. This isn't solving my problem, which is I want to be happy when I go to work. So I chose a niche in both what I do and who I do it for. And pretty much overnight, everybody was like, well, you're the wedding expert. And I was like, oh, I am. I am the wedding expert. Yeah, that's good. And it feels good. You can do things like raise your prices. You can do things like
00:25:59
Speaker
you know, apply to speak on a podcast like this, there's probably a million copywriters out there who would kill for this opportunity. But you chose me because I'm the one who works in your industry.
Quality Over Quantity in Client Inquiries
00:26:09
Speaker
Yes, that's, that's an example right there, being the obvious choice. So the number of inquiries that you get are going to go down. But the quality of the inquiries that you get are going to go up.
00:26:21
Speaker
Again, the number of clients you have might reduce, might not, but the amount that you can charge them goes up. So now your profit is going up. It's all of those little pieces. By the way, this is helping me a lot because the Bokeh podcast, like Nathan, he talks a lot about value proposition and knowing how you stand out. But I think talking about niching down, it actually is easier for me to understand for some reason.
00:26:50
Speaker
Like it just literally like it's easy. Like do you like fairy tale weddings? Do you like boho weddings? Do you like garden weddings? Like what kind of couples do you like to work for? Do you like color? Do you like metatones? Like just write it all down. Exactly. And there's a there is a space out there for people who do everything. I just think that those people are making their lives so much harder when it comes to getting a heck yes during a sales call. Because
00:27:19
Speaker
There's a million choices, so they're in theory comparing you to everybody. It's like choosing an American restaurant versus choosing a sushi restaurant. Sushi is very niche, but the people who go there are willing to pay more for that experience, that food prepared in that way by people who know how to do it versus when you go to an American restaurant, you pay 10 bucks for a burger.
00:27:42
Speaker
my bill is going to be five times the amount of that at a sushi restaurant because it's a specialized thing. It's, it's like the exact same experience. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. I have to keep reminding my students like for the sales call, like talk about like your niche, what you specialize in because yeah, you're right. They're going to start comparing you. Hey, but this guy or this girl is giving me a deal for this. It's like, no, it doesn't matter. Like, like you're, you're buying this because of how, why I stand out from the rest.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah exactly and it's a lot easier for the. Perspective couple and for you as a business owner to have that conversation like the clearer it is the easier to sale is which again that's what all of this is for is like let's get a heck yes from all these people this is one easy way so like i know i said sort of tip number two is like the power of choosing a niche.
00:28:33
Speaker
Like this is the power of that right there. You're the obvious choice. You can raise your prices. People will start to come to you because they'll go, hey, I heard you're the expert the longer you've been in it. And that's so true.
00:28:47
Speaker
I just want to be like, yes, yes, yes, yes. You are preaching to the choir, but it's just so good to hear from like a copywriter expert, because you really reminding me like, just speak to like your, what you're good at, what
00:29:05
Speaker
not what everyone else is doing and can try to compare yourself because it's always a lose-lose situation in that sense. Yeah and I'm so glad you brought that up because that's again the shadow side of like the power of choosing a niche the glass half full there is the glass half empty version which is like
00:29:21
Speaker
Oh, there's these things that scare me about this. And so again, like being scared or fear is really the big word of like, Oh, what if I alienate the customers that I already had, who already reached out now that I'm making a change? Or what if somebody comes to me and they ask for an old service that I don't offer anymore because I changed my niche? Or what if they ask for an old price, but I raised my prices?
00:29:45
Speaker
and I have new prices, like all of these things, it's basically the same fear repeated over and over, which is you're afraid of being rejected by somebody. But I mean, all of us, if you've ever been in any kind of a romantic relationship, you can attest that there is somebody out there for everybody and there are people who are not the person for you and that doesn't make them a bad person. It just means that they're not the person for you. And that's fine. There's going to be plenty of people who are not the person for you.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, and leading from fear is just not a good place to be because you could come off as desperate. They could maybe sense it and try to nickel and dime you. And then once you get nickel and dime and you kind of obliged to it, it's just like a bad rabbit hole. They're going to ask for more. They're never going to be happy. They're going to keep trying to get more and more and more from you, like eat you alive until you're overwhelmed and just like resentful.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, exactly. So, I mean, that's like the biggest objection is like, I'm scared. I'm scared about turning away the business. I really need the money or I really need the work or I really need the experience or whatever. But the reality is, is like, if you could just buck up and be just a little bit brave, it would pay dividends. But it's kind of the concept of like, you have to spend money to make money. It's like spending, I don't know,
00:31:05
Speaker
emotional capital or something. You have to put yourself out there to get people to put themselves out there with you and bring it back to you.
00:31:13
Speaker
I got in the last like two or three days, 18 inquiries. What the heck? Hey guys, you all know me. I'm Carissa Wu and I'm a coach for wedding photographers. I've also been a wedding photographer for over a decade, so I've been through it all. I was a shy, awkward girl and I've come so far. I'm now beyond passionate about helping wedding photographers not struggle how I did for so many years.
Lead Generation and Authentic Branding
00:31:40
Speaker
It was six years into my business and I was so tired of being ghosted, nickel undimed, and hearing the dreaded words, we went a different direction. I also knew I needed to find a way to not rely on referrals or paying $350 a month for the knot to get my leads.
00:31:56
Speaker
I didn't want to have anxiety about when my next payday was going to come and I wanted to scale my business. Fast forward to now, I created my very own stack system to help wedding photographers get constant leads and master the dreaded sales call and get a heck yes in 24 hours or less.
00:32:13
Speaker
and charge more than 4, 5, 6K. No more waiting around, guys. This is our livelihood, our artistry, and our passion, and we deserve to be respected, valued, and paid for what we are worth. I've helped so many wedding photographers. Watch my 20-minute masterclass all about lead generation and closing the sale. The link is in the bio. You don't want to miss out on the wedding boom, and you don't want to miss out on booking your calendar for 2022.
00:32:40
Speaker
It's engagement season, guys. So you don't want to miss this. See you guys soon. But that's why they need you because you're like the North Star because if this good copy is on their website, like their potential clients could see that and then you could just speak to whatever is on your website if you forget.
00:32:58
Speaker
Who am I? Totally. That's definitely true, but I'll couch that with I tell people all the time, I am not a magician. Copywriting is an exercise in self-confidence because you've known you your whole life and you've known your business, your whole business. I've known you for an hour, a day, a week. There's no way that I'll ever know all the things that you know.
00:33:19
Speaker
So your job when you hired me is to come to me and say, here's what I want to put out there to the world. And then it's my job to really polish that up and make it sparkle. And I can deliver the sparkle, but the sparkle is going to come from the thing that you give me. And so it all circles back to I'm not a magician. I can make something amazing out of what you give me, but it's going to be based on what you give me.
00:33:45
Speaker
could you hire a copywriter and come to them and say, I'm thinking about changing my niche, what do you think? You could, but in reality, that really needs to come from you as the business owner to say, I think I want to make this change. And that's why, again, that happens to me too. A lot of people hire me because they rebrand and they go like, well, I figured out that I don't want to be the wedding photographer who does every wedding. I want to be the wedding photographer who does
00:34:10
Speaker
these types of weddings and can you help me make this switch? That's the perfect time to hire a copywriter is when you're ready to sort of rebrand or pivot a little bit.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah. What is it like to work with you? And what would you say your woo factor is? I know you gave so much about how you get your heck yes, which I'm sure it kind of ties into that, but your woo factor, your lemon tree factor. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this will probably not surprise you, but I call that my special sauce, but my woo factor is I'm brave.
00:34:41
Speaker
I'm willing, I put my big girl pants on and I'm willing to say, I am a good fit for you. I'm not a good fit for you. This is a boundary, please don't cross it or whatever. I am not afraid of losing the sale like we talked about, sort of that serving over selling. I'd rather help somebody solve their problem than get the business in the
00:35:01
Speaker
in the door because when you do that, it just comes back and pays in dividends. And so if you go to my website, you'll see a lot of curse words. You will see a lot of bold statements. In fact, I literally say on my homepage, please don't hire me.
00:35:18
Speaker
Like you have to have balls to be able to say something like that. But the reality is some people are going to read that and go, yikes, this person looks like a nightmare to work with and run the other way. And that's fine because I probably wouldn't like working with them if dropping the F bomb is enough to ruffle their feathers.
00:35:35
Speaker
because I curse like a sailor in real life. But I curse because I get a lot of people who come to me and go, oh my God, you are the breath of fresh air that I have been looking for. All of these things piss me off. And I'm so glad that somebody else is out here saying they pissed them off too.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, you keep it real for sure. And it doesn't have to mean like, if they don't cuss, they don't have to have cuss words in their copy, like you're just true to yourself. And you have to pick out what is true to them. And through that, like they have to come to you with like an open heart, they have to be vulnerable. They have to be able to share like who they truly are for you to, you know, do your magic. Like you said you're not a magician, but you kind of are.
00:36:17
Speaker
So you totally get it. You totally get it. Like, oh, thank you. Everything that you said is spot on spot on for sure. Cool. Well, yeah, everything you said is very inspirational to me, too, because I'm just like, you know, I get anxiety, too, sometimes like with the whole coaching thing. And I have to just realize or keep telling myself, like, serving, serving, serving like they might not be a good fit for me. And, you know, if I keep wanting to choose pick everyone like then I could be
00:36:46
Speaker
Burnt out and it just could be like this horrible experience for both of us. Yeah. Yeah, it's good to be choosy Yeah, I really I really I love when you said that anything else you want to say before we it's easy to compare to dating I'll just yeah, I love food like ordering out going to restaurant and dating are my two analogies that I always go back to because everybody has had an experience in those categories, but it's just like dating and
00:37:12
Speaker
You go on a first date with somebody because you found them. Maybe you met them online or at a party and you had a first interaction. You thought it was good, but then you go on a date and you figure out, I don't really know if I want to go on a date again. I know it sucks to tell the person, actually, I would not like to go out again.
00:37:31
Speaker
You're so much better served if you just have a little bit of courage to say, you know what? Actually, I don't really think this is a good fit for me. And it's not a good fit for you either because you deserve more than somebody who is actually going to help you and move your business forward. And I don't think I'm that person. But hey, I know some people who might be. Yeah. I love that. Oh my God. Okay. Anything else you want to add about niching down before we go into more fun questions?
00:38:00
Speaker
I would just say this is me putting my copywriter hat on, sort of like my last tip about like once you choose Anish and then you decide this is what I'm gonna do, like how, now what happens? My copywriter self would say put it everywhere, put it on the homepage of your website, rewrite your Instagram bio, change everything, because again, nobody, you're not gonna experience all the benefits of doing this if you don't ever tell anybody, hey, I made a change. So you gotta put it out there.
00:38:30
Speaker
You mean like if you are kind of changing from one niche to another niche or you'd never had a niche and you're changing to a different niche? Just kind of help them both. The both. Like here's an example, and again, I just did this on my own website, is your portfolio. Like you could have every wedding you ever shot. It has a gallery on your site and it lives there and you feel like, well, it shows that I'm super experienced because I've got a hundred photo galleries.
00:38:55
Speaker
But if somebody happened to be scrolling through that and they found like wedding number five that you did from 10 years ago and it like is nowhere close to the experience and the quality in the book that you're offering now, you're basically selling something that you
00:39:11
Speaker
Like you just made a sale for something that you don't even sell anymore. Yeah. And so have the heart to go back through all of your stuff and say like, this is what I'm about now. And if that means removing something from my portfolio, then I'm going to do it because I want everything to point in this direction, whatever that new direction is for you, whether you had a direction before or you're changing your direction or what.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, because if they look at that, you know, shitty wedding, they could maybe like, it takes away your value for sure. And it could make them seem like, Oh, well, you know, she puts this up on like her portfolio or her website, then, you know, how is she going to demonstrate my photos and
00:39:51
Speaker
Is it going to look like this or is it going to look like this? When there's confusion in any of your marketing or your portfolio, it's just a very confused buyer. Yeah. I like how you said that. It doesn't even have to be shitty. It could just be like you used to do any kind of wedding, including big giant ballroom weddings, but you decided you really love elopements and now you just want to be an elopement photographer.
00:40:12
Speaker
Don't tell the world via your portfolio that you still do 500 person ballroom weddings when you'd rather do a five person elopement That's so funny that you say that because I'm so not like a ballroom type Okay, so
00:40:33
Speaker
Fun questions.
Personal Stories and Future Goals
00:40:34
Speaker
What was your first date with your husband? OK, this is actually the first date is not a good story. The second date is but our our first date was the two days after Christmas in twenty seventeen and we went out for ramen. Oh, how did you meet on Bumble? Oh, cool.
00:40:53
Speaker
an app, which actually the person who developed that is an alumni of my husband's university. So that was kind of a fun first date conversation. I don't know her, but she was like two years ahead of me. Anyway. Yeah. What school was it? SMU, Southern Methodist University. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think I heard the story, but that's so cool that they're connected. Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker
But since you're a romantic, do you want to hear a date number two story? Yeah. Okay, so we started talking the day after Christmas. We had our first date two days after that. And our second date, he planned before we even had our first date, which was
00:41:37
Speaker
New Year's Eve at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., which is where we lived at the time, which is a big, fancy performing arts center. He bought us tickets to the symphony. And then they had like an after party in the lobby with like a band and balloons and whatever. And we saved our first kiss for midnight on New Year's Eve with all the balloons dropping from the ceiling. So that's... Oh my God. You have to write a book about this. I got like chills. Chills in my stomach too.
00:42:07
Speaker
Wow, it's so like the anticipation must have been like fireworks. Yeah, I actually I framed that ticket for that concert and it's hanging in our in our house. Oh, that's so special. Okay, coaching question. If you had a magic wand, where would you see your business in three months?
00:42:28
Speaker
90 days. Well, best case scenario is that I'm booked out three months in advance. I don't think that's going to happen because as fast as this business has grown, it's been a little slower than I would like as an impatient person. No, don't say that. You could do it. You could do it, especially with all this, your co-working space and everyone, those 10 people, that's going to multiply it to 20, 30, 40.
00:42:53
Speaker
You're killing it, girl. And you just started. You're a pandemic baby, just like I had a baby in pandemic. You had a baby in pandemic before you got married. Okay, so let's see. What question? Do you have a question for me? I mean, I was going to ask you about your niche, but obviously we already kind of talked about that, which is not us.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah, so my coaching niche is mastering the sales call. Yeah. But you know, before that you have to get leads. So it's all about lead generation.
00:43:29
Speaker
So how to get those leads and that's getting on the vendor list, which I'm pretty damn good at, I gotta say. And I was super shy and awkward for like a zillion years until I figured it out. And now I'm just like a freaking maniac. I'm like, hey, so where are you from? You know, like different things. How did you figure it out? Wait, wait, I need to know all your secrets. Like how did you go from shy and introverted to the like social butterfly that you are?
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I just saw all my, I was pretty good at photography. Like my blog was freaking awesome. So I would just blog all day, you know, in front of my computer, not talk to anyone, and then hopefully get business from that. But I saw my friends getting on vendor list. I was like, dude, what the hell? Like I'm the one that got us published. Like I got the dresses, like I had all the hookups and then now you're on the vendor list.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I just was like, I finally, you know, like you said, put on my big girl pants and became brave. And then I sent wafers chapel edible arrangements. And I got on my first one, I picked up a friggin phone call a phone and call like shaking like a chihuahua. And yeah, like literally sweating like so awkward, awkward, awkward, awkward.
00:44:38
Speaker
And then I did it. I got on and it was like, I literally cried. Like I won the lottery. And then after that, it's been about three, four years and I just got better and better at it. And my last wedding, I don't even want to get on the vendor list because I'm trying to get out of it, but I just, I'm trying to do it because it just tests things for my students. But you know, I made a connection in like less than five minutes, just going on the golf cart, like, Hey, like, you know, where are you from? How long are you doing this?
00:45:06
Speaker
Where's your background? What college you go to? And we found some sort of like common bond that we knew the same person. And then I said, Do you want team photos? And she does. And you know, that's like your way in stuff like that. And then I talked to this other venue. And
00:45:21
Speaker
I think they want people that like want to that are kind of aggressive because they want the business too. So they want to be around people that have that business like mine. So it was at Palos Verdes Art Center. And I was like, hey, like, you know, just talking to them, asking them questions. And they kind of knew what's up. So they're like, hey, yeah, like we do
00:45:45
Speaker
we do work for this Brewery West. It's in San Pedro. It's this brewery that I love. They're like, we do all the events there. We need photographers. I was like, dude, hello. And I would have never known that if I didn't ask. So it's interesting. So now I'm just
00:46:02
Speaker
you know, making friends, everyone, you get everyone a fist pump, you know, elbow because they don't shake hands anymore. And just saying everyone, like congratulating everyone, we're a team, we're a team, you know, we're doing this for the couple, like being really positive and nice. And, you know, a lot of vendors could be snarky, like they're just like stuck up and they don't want to talk to anyone. And they're all about, you know, them. So it's just creating this teamwork environment. Yeah, stuff like that.
00:46:27
Speaker
Yeah, well, and it's clearly, I mean, you're such a high energy person that it just like radiates off of you
Success Stories and Lasting Advice
00:46:33
Speaker
as soon as you show up. It's like the party has arrived. Yeah, woman is here and like everybody wants to be around somebody who's like that. Yeah, you're right. And some photographers are not like that. So it is kind of like, okay, once we ride, like shit's gonna happen. Like, yeah, exactly. I wish I was like that. I'm such an Eeyore.
00:46:57
Speaker
Hey, guys. No, you're not. You're so radiating and you're so beautiful. And I'm sure you look gorgeous in your wedding dress. Oh, thank you. But yeah, I guess tell everyone like your freebie and how to work with you. I know your prices are going up. So yeah, everyone. Yeah. How to work with you because you are going to escalate and elevate their business so they can raise their prices.
00:47:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so just just like I would encourage you to do as you niche down and get more expertise, whoever is listening to this, like I have done that and my business has grown because of it. And so my my prices are going up like all of us should should reevaluate that every so often. The last time I raised my prices was this time last year. So it's been a year at the current price level. I've helped so many wedding pros. I think I counted the other day and I'm at like 40 something for this year. And so many of them have been repeat
00:47:54
Speaker
customers this year and I get comments all the time of like so and so like newspaper in my town reached out to me because they found my website and they loved my website or this couple told me like
00:48:07
Speaker
they wish that there was more on my website because they read every single word and loved it. They couldn't wait to get on the phone with me. I've got clients who couples book them without ever seeing their work or tasting their food. I have a caterer who most caterers, you do a tasting and then you book them. But she was like, I get people to book me without ever tasting my stuff. That's really a good compliment. It's like you literally are putting words are like the taste.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's doing the selling for you. So if you've got phase one of selling, which is killer copy on your website, and then you've got phase two of selling, which is somebody like Carissa teaching you how to like nail it on the phone call and get somebody to sign and book it. And then you already know how to provide an amazing experience as a service provider, like slam dunk baby on business in the door, referrals, repeat customers, all that job. So anyway, I sell that to say my prices are going up.
00:49:05
Speaker
Cool. Okay, so I'll try to post this before your prices go up. So you could kind of tell me your drop dead date, like later, and then I'll post before and whoever like mentions my name could get your, you know, older prices. And yeah, so you better hop on that. And yeah, it was great to chat with you. You could tell everyone wedding pros your lasting advice and your Instagram handle.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yeah. So my Instagram handle is LT editorial, LT as in lemon tree. That's my business name. So that's an easy one. Um, in terms of lasting advice, I mean, be brave. It's that's really what this conversation came down to is be brave. And I know that you can do it, whoever's listening to this, because you already did it. Cause you already started a business and you put yourself out there. So I know you can do it. You have practice. Let's do it. Let's do it some more.
00:50:00
Speaker
Yay. Good job. Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine. See you next time, wedding pros.