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Ep 29. Shirah Mansaray, Founder & CEO I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier: Being part of the solution
50 Plays3 years ago
“Technology has an incredible role to play in helping us deal with the challenges of children not being able to access education … but its (impact) is only in how we harness that technology and ensure that it’s grounded in local contexts and local needs.”
Shirah Mansaray is the Founder and CEO of the charity, I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier.
Having recently joined the Board of Amnesty International UK, Shirah talks about how from a young age she has felt compelled to address human rights issues and give children a voice.
I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier is dedicated to empowering and supporting former child soldiers and victims of war in Uganda, through education, rehabilitation and mental health initiatives.
Shirah also shares her experiences on often being the only black female leader in a boardroom; and provides practical advice on what organisations can do to genuinely embed change and champion true Equity, Diversity and Inclusion.
Recorded December 2021.
Guest Biography
Shirah Mansaray is the CEO and founding trustee of the international charity, I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier, which provides mental health support to former child victims of war in Uganda. Shirah has over 15 years’ experience working in the humanitarian field, with organisations ranging from the United Nations and the Human Rights and Economic Affairs Department at the Council of Europe, Strasbourg. Shirah is a Non-Executive Director and Trustee of Amnesty International UK.
Shirah is passionate about advocating for mental health as a fundamental human right for populations in the Global South and worldwide.
Shirah is currently a PhD scholar at University College London (UCL) conducting academic and industry research on healthcare policies and architectures that promote mental health through design responsibility and sustainable environmental design. She has a Master’s degree in Development, Technology and Innovation Policy from UCL, where her thesis interrogated the efficacy of the World Food Program’s Blockchain based digital identification system and the data privacy rights of refugees.
Shirah is a trained lawyer and is currently seconded to Bates Wells LLP where she advises charities, non-profits and civil society organisations in the UK and internationally on governance matters, commercial agreements, charity law and human rights law.
Links https://www.iamsomebodyschildsoldier.org/
This episode was sponsored by EdenTree Investment Management.
https://www.edentreeim.com/insights/edentree-sponsor-the-charity-ceo-podcast-season-3
Shirah Mansaray is the Founder and CEO of the charity, I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier.
Having recently joined the Board of Amnesty International UK, Shirah talks about how from a young age she has felt compelled to address human rights issues and give children a voice.
I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier is dedicated to empowering and supporting former child soldiers and victims of war in Uganda, through education, rehabilitation and mental health initiatives.
Shirah also shares her experiences on often being the only black female leader in a boardroom; and provides practical advice on what organisations can do to genuinely embed change and champion true Equity, Diversity and Inclusion.
Recorded December 2021.
Guest Biography
Shirah Mansaray is the CEO and founding trustee of the international charity, I Am Somebody’s Child Soldier, which provides mental health support to former child victims of war in Uganda. Shirah has over 15 years’ experience working in the humanitarian field, with organisations ranging from the United Nations and the Human Rights and Economic Affairs Department at the Council of Europe, Strasbourg. Shirah is a Non-Executive Director and Trustee of Amnesty International UK.
Shirah is passionate about advocating for mental health as a fundamental human right for populations in the Global South and worldwide.
Shirah is currently a PhD scholar at University College London (UCL) conducting academic and industry research on healthcare policies and architectures that promote mental health through design responsibility and sustainable environmental design. She has a Master’s degree in Development, Technology and Innovation Policy from UCL, where her thesis interrogated the efficacy of the World Food Program’s Blockchain based digital identification system and the data privacy rights of refugees.
Shirah is a trained lawyer and is currently seconded to Bates Wells LLP where she advises charities, non-profits and civil society organisations in the UK and internationally on governance matters, commercial agreements, charity law and human rights law.
Links https://www.iamsomebodyschildsoldier.org/
This episode was sponsored by EdenTree Investment Management.
https://www.edentreeim.com/insights/edentree-sponsor-the-charity-ceo-podcast-season-3
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Transcript
The Role of Technology in Education
00:00:00
Speaker
Ultimately, it's about ensuring that that gap with education is not widening. Technology has an incredible role to play in helping us deal with the challenges of children not being able to access education over the last 18 months, but it's only in how we harness that technology and ensure that it's grounded on local contexts and local needs.
Season 3 Kickoff with Divya O'Connor
00:00:29
Speaker
This is Season 3 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. I'm Divya O'Connor, and I never imagined that this show that I started as an experiment during the pandemic would turn into a number one ranked global podcast with thousands of listeners all across the world. It is truly humbling to know that the show's content is valued by so many.
00:00:52
Speaker
And, thanks to our Season 3 sponsor, Eden Tree, I will continue to bring you inspirational and engaging conversations with a host of leaders who are all truly driving change in the non-profit space. Eden Tree themselves are owned by a charity, and have led the way in responsible and sustainable investing for over three decades. Thank you to Eden Tree. Now, on with the show.
Shira Mansure's Human Rights Mission
00:01:15
Speaker
Shira Mansure is the founder and CEO of the charity I Am Somebody's Child Soldier. Having recently joined the board of Amnesty International UK, Shira talks about how from a young age she has been propelled to address human rights issues, and particularly to give children a voice.
00:01:32
Speaker
Her organization is dedicated to empowering and supporting former child soldiers and victims of war through education, rehabilitation and mental health initiatives. Shira also shares her experiences on sometimes being the only black female leader in a boardroom and provides some practical advice on what organizations can do to truly move the needle on embedding equity, diversity and inclusion. I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
00:02:02
Speaker
Hi Shera, welcome to the show. Great to have you on. Thank you very much for having me. It's really exciting to be on the show. I've seen the lineup of speakers you've had in the past, but I'm really privileged. Oh, well, you're very welcome and thank you for making the time. We always start the show with an ice break around, as you might know. So there are five questions and if you're ready, we can get started. Yes, definitely. So question one, what was your first job?
00:02:30
Speaker
My first job was as an Amnesty International fundraiser. Before university I was really keen to change the world, very idealistic, very passionate and I joined Amnesty to raise funds for their campaigns which at the time were
00:02:48
Speaker
to put an end to child soldiers in different countries all over the world and other really passionate campaigns. But I think that's a really good introduction into how I entered the charity sector.
Family Support During the Pandemic
00:03:00
Speaker
Brilliant. Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? Deep empathy, and I think that's a superpower. I know sometimes it could be viewed differently, but because of my ability to empathize,
00:03:16
Speaker
with everyone that I meet, whether it's fellow students, academics, the beneficiaries within the charity sector, I feel that that gives me a really good insight into how I could start to solve the challenges that we're working on as a charity, but also
00:03:33
Speaker
As a world, we're dealing with a lot of challenges and I feel that we need empathy. Absolutely. I think it's a very important quality with everybody and certainly with charity sector leaders like ourselves. So question three, what is something that you could not have survived the pandemic in the past almost two years now without? My children and my husband. I am so privileged to have incredible children. My son is four.
00:04:02
Speaker
my daughter Six and my husband, who actually met both of us doing Amnesty fundraising many years ago. They have been my rock and really helped me get through the ups and downs of lockdown. I see that your time in Amnesty has been a really core thread in your life and we'll come on to talk more
Balancing Leadership and Motherhood
00:04:20
Speaker
about Amnesty. But question four, if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing in the world right now, what would that be?
00:04:29
Speaker
Really interesting question. One thing in the world, I would give children a voice to speak up.
00:04:37
Speaker
and to elevate their campaigns and ideas and their love for a beautiful world to children the mic. I love that and I think you are doing that with your organization which we will come to in a second after our final icebreaker question. If you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them?
00:05:05
Speaker
Michelle Obama. She's a remarkable woman on so many accounts and for so many reasons. I would love to ask her how she continues to be such a powerhouse of a woman, but also a mom. Because I feel like where I am now and the journey that I'm on, I want to make sure I get it right as a mom and also as a powerful black female leader.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yes, I would love to hear her answer to that. I think it's so important to be able to balance and have all different aspects of your life in harmony. Yeah. Shira, coming on to the main discussion for our podcast today, you are the founder and chief executive of an incredible organization that I do believe gives children a voice called I Am Somebody's Child Soldier.
00:06:00
Speaker
Tell us the origin story of this organisation and what prompted you to start it.
Founding a Charity for Child Soldiers
00:06:05
Speaker
Yes, thank you. So I'm originally from Uganda and my husband's from Sierra Leone and as soon as we
00:06:13
Speaker
sort of finished our stint I call it a stint at Amnesty International but as fundraisers we were really passionate about making a difference in the world and I always knew I wanted to set up a charity but I wasn't necessarily sure which group of beneficiaries I would support so we went back to Uganda on our first visit ever to Uganda we noticed there was a large number of street children
00:06:35
Speaker
I'm being somebody who's very passionate about children and children's rights and having known the work of incredible organizations all over the world that empower children that's when it clicked for me and my husband to set up an organization that could benefit children.
00:06:50
Speaker
but also children that have been affected by conflict. Because having seen what conflict has done to different parts of Africa, especially, you know, Uganda, Sierra Leone, we wanted to set up a charity that could really work to support children to reintegrate into the community after they had been rescued from the war, but also support them with their mental wellbeing. So seven years ago when I set this charity up,
00:07:15
Speaker
It was very clear that our vision was to make sure that children who had faced trauma as a result of being in conflict or being born in conflict had an opportunity to overcome that trauma through concerted efforts, both from a health perspective, but also an integration perspective. And that's why we set up the charity. Wow. Can you tell us a bit more about the scale of the problem as well as perhaps elaborate more on your mission of what you're seeking to achieve?
00:07:44
Speaker
Yes, definitely. So in terms of the scale, we set up the charity seven years ago. And at the time, I must say that in Uganda, the main army commanders that were leading the Lord Resistant Army movement, they were not necessarily within the Gulu region, which is where our charity works with children. So at the time, we knew that we wanted to support children who had been rescued from the war to reintegrate. However, it's really challenging to get
00:08:11
Speaker
an idea of where to locate those children, especially if a majority of them are either street children or they have not had the opportunity to reconnect with their families. So we decided to partner with a local school in the region that supports children who are either born in conflict, who have endured injuries during conflict, and children who have either been active combatants or participated in the war.
00:08:36
Speaker
So through that very clear partnership and collaboration model, we were able to ensure that we have access to these children on a sort of continual basis, but also that we knew how large the scale was. So that school at the time we partnered with, it had 700 children attending. And each year when children were transitioning out of the primary school into the secondary school, more and more children were coming through. One of the youngest was four years old.
00:09:03
Speaker
Knowing that over the last 7 years we've been working with over 500 children on a yearly basis and more children are still coming up, it shows me the scale is big. I wouldn't necessarily be able to quantify it in terms of how it looks like now because of COVID, and I'm sure we'll probably come on to that, but there is a large number of children
00:09:25
Speaker
in northern Uganda who are struggling both from a mental health perspective, a lack of education perspective, poverty. There are a lot of different challenges that we're dealing with as a charity. But our mission is to ensure that every child that we're working with has some benefit from working with us as an organization. And by partnering with schools, we ensure that the children are safe.
00:09:47
Speaker
and that we can deliver our programs in an environment that's already pioneering children's rights.
Adapting Charity Work to Pandemic Challenges
00:09:53
Speaker
So I know that in Uganda schools have been closed for over 18 months except for exam years and of course children all over the world have had to adapt to remote and distance learning during the pandemic.
00:10:06
Speaker
But what are some of the specific challenges that the children that your organization serves face in the current context? I know you spoke there about mental well-being and being separated from families. How do you tackle those with them? Again, brilliant question. I think one of the first things we had to do as a charity when lockdown started was
00:10:29
Speaker
Reckon with the challenge of reaching our beneficiaries because we're registered here in the UK, but our beneficiaries are based in Northern Uganda. And knowing that schools were closed, that was our main way of reaching children. So all of a sudden we needed to think very creatively around how we ensure that children can still benefit from our organization.
00:10:48
Speaker
And because of that creative thinking, we're able to partner with an organization that supports children and their families, receive mental health support via a telephone line, so telepsychiatry. And by delivering telepsychiatry to very remote areas, children and their families could call into this helpline and get a volunteer social worker or psychotherapist, give them some
00:11:13
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily say canceling, but it's just that intervention in terms of we're all dealing with uncertainty. It's right at the peak of lockdown. These are the services within the community that you could reach out to if you're a young child or a mother or a caregiver, and if you need anyone else to talk to, this helpline is there for you. So that was one of our very first interventions. But through that intervention, we actually had a first-hand understanding of the challenges children and caregivers were dealing with.
00:11:41
Speaker
One of them being children were now in a space that was unsafe because the school does provide that safety. But back at home or back within the community, some children are living in child-led households, which means they are the caregiver as well as looking after their siblings and there's no adult there. So dealing with that level of trauma and uncertainty was very challenging for the children that were calling through on the helpline. Another challenge we quickly encountered was child marriages.
00:12:11
Speaker
where children were being forced into marriage because their caregivers couldn't afford to look after them, and they didn't know what was going to happen in terms of being able to get them back into education. That was another challenge. The third one was children being forced onto their farms, so child labour. All of a sudden, a child is no longer able to go to school, so a parent or caregiver is thinking, at least if you're at home,
00:12:36
Speaker
you can support with the household labour requirements. So it was a really challenging time to listen to all of these issues that very young children were dealing with. And now 18 months on, we still know that children are dealing with
00:12:52
Speaker
it and we still have the statistics and the data that shows children have been hit drastically by COVID and by schools still being closed in Uganda. I know it's such a huge global problem. I think the figures are there are 258 million children out of school globally and the pandemic has certainly exacerbated that and a lot of those children are at risk of not coming back into education and certainly for girls that is even more acute.
Empowering Former Child Soldiers
00:13:22
Speaker
But Shira, I was wondering as you were talking there, do you also engage with adults who were child soldiers in their younger years but have now grown up and no longer are of school age but are sort of adults? Are they engaged in some way in terms of being caregivers or being able to do outreach work or counselling with the school-aged children?
00:13:44
Speaker
We have in the past engaged with adults who had actively participated in the war. Interestingly, the school that we partnered with, some of the teachers
00:13:56
Speaker
soldiers. It's a very sensitive topic because former child soldiers would not readily identify as child soldiers because of the stigma that's still associated to being a former child soldier. And also there is that conflict between the perpetrator and the victim and knowing that some of these children did commit atrocities to local communities. So
00:14:21
Speaker
With the adults that we work with, we work with them predominantly on an upskilling and capacity building initiative, which is on our website, was working with women returnees, and these were women that were captured while still very young, and a majority of them were forced to be the wives of the army commanders and other active combatants within the war.
00:14:48
Speaker
organization partners specifically with a local grassroots level organization that empowers women to access business training initiatives and also support them with microloans and purchase their first set of equipment so that they can really
00:15:04
Speaker
make the most of the business training they've received and the microloans and generate that income for their family because we realized it's one thing supporting children who are attending the school but some of these children when they're going back home there isn't a structure in place all their parents and caregivers don't necessarily have the financial stability to be able to sustain
00:15:25
Speaker
So we work with these children and their parents and a majority of other adults within the local community to support them so that they can generate their own income. And ultimately, by them having the skills and knowledge to generate an income, it gives them that empowerment and that dignity to be able to sustain
00:15:45
Speaker
the already existing challenges of living within Northern Uganda. Well, it sounds like you're doing fantastic work, Shira, and I absolutely agree with you that the sustainability element is absolutely key for all such programmes. But tell us a bit more, what does the future hold for your organisation? What are your future plans?
00:16:04
Speaker
Excitingly, we're working with University College London, which is where I'm doing my PhD, on an initiative to support children to access education via online resources. So we're looking to set up an IT literacy hub.
00:16:22
Speaker
which will be based at the local school and children can, obviously once education is back up and running within Uganda, children can access this centre to, I would say, learn online, but it's not just as easy as learning online because there is that culture gap and there is that period of 18 odd months where children have not had any form of education.
Bridging Educational Gaps with Technology
00:16:44
Speaker
So all of a sudden for us to be able to build this initiative where we can have children coming to an it hub and access online resources include.
00:16:55
Speaker
other students over the world to deliver some of these workshops and online sessions and UCL has been a great partner in helping us to deliver and tailor this program so that it is grounded on the local context and what the children need but ultimately it's about ensuring that that gap with education is not widening.
00:17:15
Speaker
Technology has an incredible role to play in helping us deal with the challenges of children not being able to access education over the last eighteen months, but it's only in how we harness that technology and ensure that it's grounded on local context and local needs.
00:17:30
Speaker
So I am involved with two international education organizations as a trustee of Book Aid International and of course now as the CEO of United World Schools and I think the whole edtech conversation is really fascinating in terms of
00:17:45
Speaker
How do you really bridge that digital divide, especially when you're talking about children who are in remote or poor marginalized regions of the world? How have you found that journey for your own organization in terms of really trying to bridge that digital divide? What we have done in the past, we delivered a pilot project in partnership with Eton College, where we had the children in Gunu.
00:18:11
Speaker
participate in the pen pal initiative. I feel quite old saying pen pal initiative. Sounds like fun. I participated in the pen pal initiative many years ago. But the ethos behind this project was to ensure that children felt comfortable communicating online, and that they had the basic skills in letter writing. Because prior to our charity developing this pen pal initiative, majority of these children had never accessed a laptop or a computer. So this was
00:18:40
Speaker
almost a face for us to see, okay, what are the skills level of these children currently? And how comfortable do they feel engaging with other children online? And it brought about the element of global citizenship, because all of a sudden you had the Etonians who, for whatever stereotypes they have,
00:18:59
Speaker
were very compassionate and very empathetic and produced brilliant letters and were really supportive of the children in Uganda. But we also had the children in Uganda challenging and pushing back and saying, what does it feel like to have access to finances and playing football in the park? And I guess what I'm saying, the letters that were coming out of that pilot project were both inspiring, but also thought provoking. And that's
00:19:25
Speaker
The reason why we decided to have the IT project because we realized we wanted to make this level of communication open and accessible to the whole school, not just the 20 students who participated in the project. It's so insightful what you've just shared there Shira because I think you're absolutely right that sometimes we can
00:19:44
Speaker
intellectualise these debates but actually what we need to do is bring it back down to ground level and think about it from the context of that particular child in that particular school in a village and I think it's fascinating that they were having these conversations.
00:19:58
Speaker
And so Shira, I'd like to come on now to talk a little bit more about you.
From Law to Humanitarian Work
00:20:04
Speaker
You are a lawyer by training, you are doing a PhD currently, as you mentioned, and you have recently joined the board of Amnesty International UK. So congratulations on that.
00:20:16
Speaker
And I think it's really lovely that you've come full circle from being a fundraiser at Amnesty International as your first job. But tell us more about that background and how you've come to be where you are today and travelling that full circle.
00:20:29
Speaker
Yes, thank you very much. It's always interesting hearing people mention the different accolades that have built up over the years. Needless to say, I'm really passionate about the humanitarian sector and human rights in general. And my journey begins, not necessarily from Amnesty International actually, it begins when I went back to Uganda as a young teenager
00:20:50
Speaker
with my family and I got to experience what it's like to live in a country where poverty was, I would still say that I speak now, but at the time it was experiencing that having grown up here in the UK and knowing that I wanted to be part of the solution and the solution was more me speaking out and challenging the status quo. So when I came back to the UK, I was very adamant that I wanted to be a lawyer
00:21:18
Speaker
and I wanted to be a human rights lawyer. So because of that conviction and having done my law degree, I had the opportunity, really brilliant opportunity to intern at the Council of Europe in Strasbourg and the European Court of Human Rights. And that experience informed my decision to remain in the humanitarian sector, but more so to leverage my legal skills, which at the time I was still harnessing and I am still
00:21:46
Speaker
training as a lawyer, but it was more so understanding that the law has a unique way in helping people access justice and understand and appreciate their rights.
00:22:00
Speaker
So because of that, I am really passionate about how we can use the law to ensure that people access their human rights. But we are also able to challenge the status quo, because if you look at the history of law, it's because something has come up and we have decided this is not right.
00:22:17
Speaker
and some laws have been put in place to help us navigate that and it is a transition it's not to say that the laws that we have now what we need that's a whole different conversation but in terms of tracing my background and how i got here it's been a journey both from the legal sector and the humanitarian sector.
00:22:34
Speaker
But the most exciting part for me was becoming a board member of Amnesty International because I have always been enthralled by their work where the brand is strong, what they've done for children's rights over the last 30 years is remarkable. But now to be able to sit on the board and to, I guess, challenge. Challenge what's happening in the world.
00:22:58
Speaker
I know that as a board member, I have a responsibility to our beneficiaries, but also to the brand to ensure that we're challenging and we are continuously part of the solution. So I guess the board member appointment was great. The PhD, interestingly, that comes from a desire to understand our charity and somebody's child soldier and how I can continue to support the work that we do. So before I decided to
00:23:28
Speaker
go into the charity sector full-blown as a chief executive officer. I always knew there was a skills gap. I had the legal academic training, I had the academic training of a lawyer, and I was still yet to pursue the practical training of a solicitor.
00:23:44
Speaker
But I knew that a CEO who was going to work in northern Uganda or in any part of the global south on a campaign as big as mental health, where we still have so much stigma associated to it within the country, I needed to upskill. So that's when I decided
00:24:00
Speaker
I decided to go back and do a Masters at UCL on Development and Technology and after my Masters I was awarded a scholarship. I received a distinction in my Masters and that scholarship was to study mental health and architecture and how we can build spaces that promote the mental being of occupants and not just functional bricks and walls and mortar.
00:24:21
Speaker
That's my journey and my journey of wearing multiple hats. I saw a LinkedIn post that you shared where you described joining the board of amnesty as realizing a dream you never even knew you had. I feel like that sometimes as well, that becoming a charity CEO was a dream that I didn't even know I had. I genuinely think where I am right now, and it sounds like you're in the same space where your skills
00:24:47
Speaker
and sort of experience really merge with your passion. And finding that sweet spot in terms of a role or an organization is really the holy grail. And at United World Schools now, I do feel that way. Many, many years ago, I spent some time teaching in a little village school in Cambodia and sort of experience for myself the really transformative power of education and how that can really help lift people out of poverty. And so that's what the organization is looking to do in terms of
00:25:16
Speaker
building schools in poor and remote areas and enrolling children who are out of school into school and helping transform their lives that way. Coming back to your amazing journey, Shira, do you have any advice for aspiring leaders on how to become successful in the charity space and how people can really find that holy grail for themselves?
Defining the 'Why' in Charity Work
00:25:38
Speaker
I guess three things.
00:25:41
Speaker
I enter the childish sector relatively young. I have been on several boards and a majority of the time I have been perhaps the youngest, the only person of colour or female. So my advice would always be
00:25:57
Speaker
for anyone entering the charity sectors to know why you're doing it. It's one thing having the feel good factor of being part of the solution, being the change we want to be, but knowing your why and having something that is very close to your heart. So for me, children's rights and children's justice is very close to my heart. So by taking a route into the charity sector, it's knowing that I get to contribute to something that I'm very passionate about. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is
00:26:27
Speaker
to ask questions and again challenge the status quo because so often we're told things have to be done a certain way or this is how it's been done in the past so we should continue to do it this way. I understand being lawyer in training I know what it means to have to be compliant and to follow the charity commission guidelines and there's a whole wealth of different requirements to be in the charity sector as a leader and the responsibility is enormous as well
00:26:56
Speaker
not just for chief execs, but even trustees. So I guess it's making sure that we ask the right questions and that we bold in our requests for answers, because sometimes as leaders we're given information because that's what people think we want to hear or want to see. But if we don't ask those questions, then we end up relying on information that's not necessarily going to help us in the future. So I guess that's the second thing.
00:27:22
Speaker
The third thing is, have fun. Have fun. The charity sector for all the good that we do, some of the challenges are so big and if you get so engrossed in being part of the solution. For example, I work with very vulnerable children, marginalized. It's a very interesting and delicate topic to raise, especially in different rooms and conversations.
00:27:51
Speaker
But ultimately, being able to appreciate that at least we are part of the solution. We are in the charity sector. We are being the change we want to see. So there is an element of joy in being able to go home and sleep at night and say, you know what, I rock. I'm doing something that rock.
00:28:13
Speaker
Absolutely. Shira, that is such brilliant advice. I'm going to have to summarise it here. The number one is know your why and I'm going to add to that, follow your passion. Number two is ask questions and challenge the status quo. And I like what you said about actually be bold about the answers that you are seeking and don't allow yourself to be fobbed off essentially and be given information. That's not actually hitting directly at the answer that you're looking for. And thirdly, of course, have fun.
00:28:43
Speaker
Thank you. Looking back at your leadership journey, Sheryl, what advice would you give to yourself on day one of becoming a CEO and probably have fun, but is there anything else as well that looking back you might tell yourself given where you are now? I would advise myself to speak up and that comes with
00:29:05
Speaker
the weight of knowing that at the time I was young and idealistic and I thought I was going to change the world and I still believe I'm going to change the world. But I guess when you're entering the charity sector,
00:29:18
Speaker
and you're young and again I was a majority of the time the only black female in the room. I didn't know how to express myself in a way that added value so I would shy away from the difficult conversations and I'd let people steer me or the organization in a direction that I didn't necessarily feel we were supposed to be going in.
00:29:40
Speaker
So definitely advise myself to speak up and to add value to that space the fact that i'm in that room it means i'm ready my seat on that table so to trust that i have value to add to any conversation that i'm in.
00:29:55
Speaker
because of the mere fact that I'm part of that conversation. Yes, that's so true.
Genuine Diversity and Inclusion in Charities
00:30:01
Speaker
And Shira, I have to ask, do you think that the movements recently of Black Lives Matter and Charity So White, do you think they are really genuinely changing the conversation?
00:30:12
Speaker
because I know there's so much emphasis now in the sector around equality, diversity and inclusion. But how do you move it from being just a tick box to actually something that is genuinely integrated and how we all work and how all of our organisations include different voices?
00:30:29
Speaker
I am privileged because I have the lived experience of having come through different organisations and seeing how they've transitioned from being criticised for not having diversity and inclusive practices, but seeing what they're doing to embed that within their culture. So on the one hand,
00:30:51
Speaker
I feel that it's great that we're having these conversations and it's great that I can walk into a boardroom and challenge other board members on how they're being culturally sensitive, how they're considering the diversity and inclusion needs of others. Because seven years ago when I set up this charity and
00:31:09
Speaker
as a CEO, I wouldn't feel comfortable having this conversation. And yet I was the only person of color in those rooms. But now I had that confidence because everyone's talking about it. So that's the one aspect.
00:31:22
Speaker
However, what I would preface that with is just because the conversation is being had, it doesn't mean change is happening. Yes. And that's where as leaders, we need to be very, very careful to ensure that we're not just saying the right words or using the right slogans. It's an interesting conversation. So the three key things I would advise for anyone who is considering this journey or
00:31:47
Speaker
really keen to make sure that their organization transitions, is look at your recruitment, look at where your talent pipeline is coming from. There is a lot of conversation around, you know, charity so wide, and why is it that we have so many people within the charity sector that have inverted commas white savior syndrome?
00:32:06
Speaker
So challenge the recruitment pipeline and think creatively and outside the box on where your talent is coming from and how you can bring in talent, not using the traditional methods, perhaps reaching out to local recruiters or recruiters that are specifically targeting the audiences and employees that you'd like to have represented in your organization.
00:32:28
Speaker
Number two would be to ensure they are adequate practices and cultural shifts internally before you bring in people of color. Because one thing I'm pushing back on now in a lot of boardrooms that I'm participating in is we cannot bring vulnerable individuals into a space that is already rift with institutional racism or
00:32:51
Speaker
practices that are either consciously or subconsciously biased and demeaning or degrading. So we need to look internally to make sure that we're fixing the problem before we bring more people in to only suffer the same injustice or injustices that other people have suffered as a result of being within that organization.
00:33:11
Speaker
And the number three would be for leaders to take an active stance, especially senior management teams and board members. Because if we do not have people within those spaces that are representative of the people that are coming through,
00:33:27
Speaker
then it's going to look very challenging on how do I navigate this scene. I'm a young, passionate individual entering the charity sector for the first time, but this organization doesn't have any people of color or diversity or inclusive individuals within its board and senior management team. So how do I feel represented at a senior level and how do I navigate that? I guess it's more so knowing that when we have people representative in senior management and boards,
00:33:56
Speaker
They also have a duty to provide some sort of mentorship or open conversations with other individuals to ensure that the culture is shifting. Yeah, thank you, Shera. This has been such an insightful conversation and you've given, I think, such thoughtful practical advice on how we can start to shift the dialogue on so many of these key issues.
00:34:20
Speaker
And one final question as we come to a close now. Do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? To the young listeners as well as both the old and those who are actively looking to enter the charity sector,
Legacy and Impact of Charity Work
00:34:40
Speaker
It's more to understand that the work is challenging. It's got its ups and downs, but ultimately it's going back to that why. Why are you in the charity sector? What impact do you want to have? What's your legacy and how do you want to be seen in the world? Because for me, it's understanding that we could do so many things. I wear the hat of being a PhD student. I love being an academic. I wear the hat of being a lawyer in training and I love that. But the one thing that I truly love is being
00:35:10
Speaker
a CEO and trustee of charities and just seeing how everyone is so passionate about positive change and social justice. So for me, it's just keep holding the torch and be bold and have fun and have the courage it needs for us to shift the narrative. Thank you, Shira. I really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
00:35:41
Speaker
I so enjoyed my conversation with Shira Mansore, CEO of the charity I Am Somebody's Child Soldier and board member of Amnesty International. Shira is most definitely somebody with empathy as her superpower. And she's spot on in her insight that just because conversations are being had doesn't always mean that the right changes are being made. But we all need to continue to push for social change and continue to give our beneficiaries a voice.
00:36:10
Speaker
And I absolutely agree with her on another point too. Charity sector colleagues, we all frickin' rock.
00:36:19
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Charity CEO podcast. A show that, thanks to you, our listeners, has repeatedly reached the number one spot in Apple's non-profit podcast category. If you found this conversation valuable, please help spread the word. Share or tag us on Twitter or LinkedIn or Instagram, and make sure you subscribe to the show by clicking the subscribe button on your podcast app.
00:36:41
Speaker
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