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Outsource your editing and get your life back - Nathan Holritz
95 Plays4 years ago
Today I dropped my 10th episode!!! Woohoo!
Calling all wedding photographers that want to take their life back because time-freedom is everything! In this episode we deep dive into why and how you should start outsourcing editing. If you want days of the week in your life back, you want to listen.
Nathan Holritz from the Bokeh Podcast is in the house. He owns Photographer's Edit - Custom editing for the professional photographer, giving photogs time to focus on what matters. He is the man and and has helped thousands of photographers with his business and wealth of knowledge.
I was on Nathan's podcast 2 months ago and I loved it so much. I got the podcast bug and started mine own. He's helped me so much along my journey. I talked about the "Dreaded Sales Call" on his podcast. We are both hopeless romantics and he shares his love story with Jill. He always talks a lot about how empathy helps him be a better business owner and parent.
You can find Nathan Holritz and Photographer's Edit here.
https://www.instagram.com/photogsedit/
https://www.photographersedit.com/
https://www.instagram.com/nathanholritz/
You can find our chat here.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bokeh-the-photography-podcast/id1140118526?i=1000527228074
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Transcript
Introduction and Outsourcing Editing
00:00:00
Speaker
Today in this episode, I chat with Nathan Holritz, host of Boca Podcast and owner of Photographers Edit. The Boca Podcast is my favorite photography podcast and he has over 500 episodes. His voice is gold. Today we chat about tips on how to start outsourcing your editing and get your life back. Enjoy!
Carissa's Journey in Photography
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host, Carissa, and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all. I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle, mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story,
00:00:50
Speaker
time hacks because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey. I hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon!
Technical Challenges and Podcasting
00:01:13
Speaker
Hey guys, I'm here with my friend Nathan from the Boca podcast and I'm so excited to chat with him. He also owns photographers edits. He helps thousands of photographers outsource their editing and he just eliminates all that stress from them. We're going to talk a little bit more about how you get started with outsourcing your editing, but welcome Nathan. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. We made it happen. We made it happen. We had some technical difficulties.
Inspiration Behind Boca Podcast
00:01:40
Speaker
Um, I was on his podcast about a month ago.
00:01:42
Speaker
And yeah, I talked about the dreaded sales call and we had so much fun. And after that call, I actually got the, the podcast bug and here I am today with you. I'm so proud of myself. Roll is a reverse full circle. We're making it happen. Yeah. And I'm proud of you too. Way to just go for it. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I've been listening to your podcast for, for forever. And my friend's been telling me, Hey, um, listen to the book of podcasts is so good. And I was like, nah, like,
00:02:10
Speaker
I'm into like business podcasts. I'm good. Like I don't need to know more about photography. And as soon as I listened to your podcast and I heard your radio soothing voice, Oh my God, I was hooked from the first episode and I have listened to your episodes, like probably like hundreds of episodes. And I think now you're on like 520 episodes. Is that correct? Something like that. Yep. That's crazy.
Building a Unique Podcast Brand
00:02:34
Speaker
Okay. I'm not going to even like ask you any, um, serious questions, but I actually, I'm curious to know like,
00:02:40
Speaker
Do you have any recommendations for me for starting out a podcast like how to promote myself and how to keep the passion going?
00:02:47
Speaker
Wow, that's interesting. Okay, so I guess the first thing that comes to mind is that podcasting now, very much like blogging, say five, 10 years ago, is the thing to do, right? So there are, at last I heard something like, well, certainly over a million blogs, maybe 1.1 million blog or podcasts, rather, there are just a lot of podcasts. It's the thing for everybody's just kind of rushing to the platform. And so to that end, it's super important to differentiate yourself.
00:03:16
Speaker
Now I say this, you've actually already done it. So I'm really setting you up because I love, I love that you have, I know that we're going to talk about outsourcing today, but your premise, the premise for your podcast is figuring out how to get clients to say yes. Right? How to most effectively convert clients.
00:03:33
Speaker
So you're doing this right from the get-go in that you have a very distinct brand position. We talk a lot about brand position on the Bokeh podcast. You have very distinct brand position for your podcast, niching down, specializing in a very crowded space is more important than ever. I mean, this is true as a photographer. This is certainly true as a podcaster. So
00:03:52
Speaker
Um, I, again, I had the big caveat that you're already doing this, but I think that's probably the most important thing right now is, but number one, certainly to come out with a very distinct brand position. And then the second thing you also do this, which is to bring energy to the conversation. The last thing that when people are listening to conversation and they hear like monotone, monotonous people just kind of rambling on and on and on.
00:04:14
Speaker
They're gonna fall asleep. So bringing energy to the conversation and this is not just an act but ultimately genuine interest and excitement in the conversation and the people that you're talking to. That's gonna translate to the end listener and it'll make a big impact all the way around.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. You gave me that amazing advice yesterday on our call and you just said, you, you told me that I gave great energy to the podcast and I really want to take that away because sometimes I have really good energy and sometimes I'm tired. So I just need to like, you know, drink that coffee before the episode.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think one of the best ways to do this, certainly take some extra caffeine and I do it the same thing, but put yourself in the listener's shoes. And we need to do this, I think this is an applicable concept too as photographers, right? We need to, in fact, it would even be a good thing occasionally to be on the other side of the lens to experience what our clients experience. But put ourselves in the shoes of the person who is consuming the service or consuming the product or in your case, consuming the content.
Nathan's Photography Business Origins
00:05:14
Speaker
and think about what it is that they're looking for what they like what they don't like i think about the podcast that i've heard that are so disorganized and that the host doesn't really seem to have a grasp on what it is that he's talking about and the information and the way he's presenting the content it's it is disorganized it's kind of haphazard and you're like what what are we actually getting to and so i think about the things that i dislike
00:05:36
Speaker
And as a listener, as a consumer, and then I take that to the way that I create and present content on the podcast. Again, this principle is very applicable to running a photography business as well. Yeah. I mean, are you still passionate after all these episodes about speaking to different photographers?
00:05:53
Speaker
Ultimately, yes. Very honestly speaking, there are times where let's say I do five, six episodes in the span of two weeks. That's a lot of content because there is a level of intensity that I do try to bring to the podcast. I'm sure similar to the way that you do, right? You're kind of upping the ante. You're bringing the energy level up just a little bit higher. The focus level is higher. So it's surprisingly exhausting at times.
00:06:16
Speaker
So if I do five, six episodes in the span of a week and a half to two weeks, that's a lot. And I feel a little bit burnout at the end of that. So it's good occasionally to take a break, two, three, four days off and then go back to it so that the energy that I bring is comparable. I want to bring great energy. I also don't want to become robotic.
00:06:34
Speaker
in the content that i'm producing a part of that it's easy a lot of times i've done over five hundred episodes you're saying. It's easy to fall into a pattern of saying some of the same words and same phrases and again the end consumer if they're even halfway paying attention they'll catch on to that. And they may check out as a result so i wanna be very intentional even in the words that i'm saying the phrases that i'm using that i'm not doing so robotically that i'm being super intentional in that content that i'm producing.
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I sent my pot, your podcast to a bunch of my friends and one of my friends says, whoa, his voice is money. I actually had a listener to tell me that, that they're not only does she enjoy listening, but her kids enjoy, I guess the tone of my voice. So they'll actually turn the podcasts on in the car and they kind of just chill, chill out listening to the podcast. It's kind of fun. Yeah. You're like a Nathan lullaby.
00:07:26
Speaker
You should take over a baby shark. Yeah. So yesterday you, before my internet crapped out, um, you were telling me about how you started with your wedding photography business. And then ultimately your, uh, photographers edit where you help photographers outsource their
Benefits of Outsourcing Editing
00:07:44
Speaker
editing. So tell me a little bit about like how you got started with wedding photography, where you're even located. I know where you're located, uh, but tell the listeners and yeah, how you got started with your amazing business, helping thousands of photographers.
00:07:57
Speaker
Well, I started shooting weddings in 2001. Okay. And I was shooting as many as 30 to 40 weddings a year. And we started in film, but ultimately transitioned to digital. And so when you're shooting 30 to 40 weddings a year digitally, you've got a lot of images that need to be processed. And at that time, the idea of outsourcing editing wasn't as commonplace, which is kind of weird because I come from the film world where you shot the film, you take it to the lab, you drop it off, you go pick up the finished product. That was the norm, right?
00:08:23
Speaker
So then we go to digital and I mean part of it I think is that the industry just hadn't established reliable workflows and those workflows that were ultimately affordable to photographers. And photographers like the idea, still to this day really, like the idea of control, right? They shoot the image. They don't have to take it to a lab. They can look at that image immediately and then they can go into Lightroom or Photoshop and apply a look and feel to it. And they like that. They like that control.
00:08:47
Speaker
Well, it was overwhelming to me, like to take all of these images from, you know, hundreds of weddings into Lightroom to process myself, that concept was just ultimately overwhelming. It was stressful to me. So I needed a solution. I also saw at the time that there were only, as far as I remember it, I think three other companies that were trying to offer editing services, but they were complicated.
00:09:10
Speaker
They were expensive, and we're talking like $600 to $800 to outsource the processing of a wedding, which wasn't realistic for really any wedding photographer, most wedding photographers. So I saw an opportunity as a business owner as well, as an entrepreneur. So I needed a solution. I also saw an opportunity, and I didn't want to just copy what everybody else was doing. We needed to come up with a service that was simpler.
00:09:32
Speaker
And that was more affordable to a wider range of photographers. So photographers that it was driven by not only a personal need, but also an opportunity that I saw in the industry to differentiate ourselves from the existing services. And that was 2008, when I launched that company. And it took probably, I will say between two and three years to really get it off the ground to refine the workflows and get to a place where we were, we had kind of a rhythm. But we've had the opportunity to work with thousands of photographers, not only in the US, but ultimately around the world as well.
00:10:02
Speaker
Wow, that's amazing. It's very impressive. And just for the listeners, photographers edit, everyone in all over the place knows who you guys are, and they always say great things about you. If they need a tweak, or they have some problems, or they need someone to help them, they said you guys have the best customer service. So you guys are killing it. And yeah, I'm so proud of you, Nathan. That's so amazing.
00:10:26
Speaker
Thank you. Well, and I have to give major, major props to my team because I can talk about starting this company, but the reality is it wouldn't have gone anywhere, literally gone anywhere had it not been for the team that largely functions behind the scenes. But our production team, our customer service team, our marketing team, now they're beginnings of a marketing team.
00:10:46
Speaker
I just have to give major props to them because we wouldn't be what we are today, certainly without that team. You talk about customer service and I have, I mean, there are a couple of members of our team have been on board basically from the get-go for years and years and years. And they treat our company with a level of commitment and ultimately ownership, despite being employees, and ownership that is just humbling, ultimately. So yeah, major props to our team. That's how we make it happen. But
00:11:10
Speaker
What we're bringing to the industry, yes, it's custom editing. We specialize in matching the photographer's style. But at the end of the day, what we're doing is providing what I needed when I was a photographer, which is more freedom, more flexibility. As sole proprietors, post-production is probably the most time-consuming element of running a photography business. And not only does it keep us from focusing on things that actually generate more revenue, but it also keeps us from spending time with the important people in our life, family, friends, partners, or otherwise.
00:11:40
Speaker
what we are doing ultimately is giving photographers their lives back because they're able to hand over that editing work. They can focus on the things in their business that will generate more revenue. And they can also have, they can focus, they can give time to the relationships, the important relationships in their life. And you can't get that back. You know, I'm, I have two kids and I'm kind of faced, I'm in this stage of my life where I, despite the fact that in my head I'm 14, I'm 42.
00:12:06
Speaker
And I feel like, man, wow, time goes so quickly. And there is only so much time that I get with my kids and certainly with friends and family. The last thing that I want is busy work sitting in front of the computer, playing with Lightroom presets and Photoshop actions and whatever else. It's fun. I don't want to take away from that, but it ultimately is interfering with me having a life. And I want a life that goes beyond sitting in front of a computer.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, editing a wedding could take like eight to 10 hours for me easily. That's conservative. Yeah, totally. That's without the Photoshop. And when I saw your Instagram and I saw that you had two grown kids, I was surprised because you look really young.
00:12:41
Speaker
Oh, thank you. In my head, I'm seriously like in my head, I'd probably think like a 14 year old. I mean, I just, I, I have a curiosity about life and an enjoyment for life. And I think that's part of honestly what drives it too. The last thing that I want is to be like this, this corporate guy who sits behind a computer and lives a boring life that is driven primarily by work, right? I have my kids and my girlfriend and family and friends and, and industry contacts, like all these incredible relationships with my life. I want to invest.
00:13:11
Speaker
there. And then I want again, I want to do things that are ultimately enabling me to build my brands, my companies, because I am involved in other companies as well. And so I also much like a photographer needs to delegate their editing, I'm learning to more effectively delegate to my team. And it's just a win win in the end.
00:13:29
Speaker
That's awesome. I wanted to ask you, this is for your photographer's edit company. What would you say your biggest struggle of the business was? I know it's been since like 2007, but the struggle of the business and then what would be your woo factor? Like what, how do you stand out?
00:13:43
Speaker
that's great. Okay, so stand out our brand position. And again, this is something we talk a lot about in the book of podcasts, because I think it's important for photographers, but our position, which is unique to the industry is that we offer custom image editing. So there was a there's a turning point probably five years, six years or so ago, where the industry and the post production industry in the photography industry
00:14:05
Speaker
went more the direction of like cheap monthly subscription, right? So the level of service came down. Certainly the price point came down. But photographers who actually want great, not only great customer service, but ultimately image editing that doesn't have to cut corners and ultimately matches their editing style. We know how important that is to so many photographers. And so we specialize in everything we specialize in custom image editing for the professional photographer, wedding photographer, professional photographer, or excuse me, portrait photographer, but ultimately professional photographer.
00:14:35
Speaker
And that is our brand position. That is our Woo Factor, if you will. That's our specialty. The biggest challenge at the end of the day? That's a great question.
Managing Expectations in Editing
00:14:44
Speaker
So consistency as a production company, consistency is always our biggest, probably internal challenge, making sure that we're consistently matching that customer's editing style.
00:14:55
Speaker
But I think the other side of it, and maybe just as challenging, is managing expectations. So a photographer is like, oh, I want to outsource editing. And that's a great idea. And we love that they're thinking about that. But there's an assumption I think a lot of times that photographers have that when they go to outsource editing, they can just kind of dump the images in our lap and expect to get these great images back that match their editing style. And the reality is, it's a relationship. It's a working relationship.
00:15:19
Speaker
Much like, for example, I went and worked at Baskin Robbins. That was my first retail job when I was a kid, right? And so when I went and worked for Baskin Robbins, the guy who hired me didn't just say, okay, go work, right? Naturally, any corporate job that you go work, you get training upfront and then you get ongoing feedback.
00:15:37
Speaker
Well photographers are hiring photographers at it as their employees so creating the expectation for them that this is a is a long term working relationship where first of all we expect them to communicate what it is that they want to us and then on an ongoing basis give us feedback so we can produce the best possible results for them.
00:15:54
Speaker
That's a really big challenge and we're continuing to refine the process of creating and managing expectations for photographers so that they understand going into it. It takes more than just simply dumping images in our lap. It takes communication, proactive communication, and that we want an ongoing communicative relationship. That's going to produce the best results in the end.
00:16:14
Speaker
What would your favorite communication book be that you've read? Because I feel like you give a shout out to your team, but you're the CEO of your company, and you had to create this amazing culture and amazing team. Was there a certain book or a mentor or podcast that you'd like to listen to or read to kind of gain knowledge about how to communicate to your team?
00:16:38
Speaker
Wow, that's also a really great question. When it comes to communication specifically, honestly, there's not a particular book that comes to mind. I think a lot of it for me is being the listener, being the consumer of information, and thinking about how I process information.
00:16:55
Speaker
And where I've had poor experiences on the other side of somebody, I think about how I can do better than that experience, if that makes sense. I know that's a bit simplistic, but that's a lot of it is just, if I have a bad or negative personal experience in communication, I want to, I then apply that to not only my personal life and the way that I interact with somebody individually, but also to the way that we communicate with other people. A lot of it centers around empathy.
00:17:19
Speaker
And so, you know, we talk about energy, right? If I was, if I was droning on in a monotone right now, not only would you be kind of falling asleep and wondering what's going on, like, does he care? Is he interested? But then the listeners also would be kind of wondering the same thing. If you hear, and people are paying close, even if it's subconscious, people are paying close attention, not only to the tone of her voice, but if we have the opportunity to engage
00:17:42
Speaker
either over video chat or in person. They're paying attention to expression, eye contact, what's happening with his eyes, where's he looking? And we read emotion through the eyes. So that level of empathy, understanding that's how people communicate and how they receive communication has been a really important part of our company's effort at developing our communication with clients. So I've had
00:18:04
Speaker
ongoing conversations with our customer service team in particular over the years, which is, hey, you know what? Add an extra couple of exclamation points to the end of that sentence. Throw a little emotion in. Add the little smiley face if you need to, but throw some emotion into the communication because people feel that. They feel like you care, like you're engaged, and that's a really big part of it. So I guess that would be the two things. One,
00:18:25
Speaker
Pay attention to what you don't like in communication with other people and fix that for the sake of your engagement with others. But then two, show a lot of empathy and do that particularly through emotion and it'll come back multifold. People will really appreciate that.
00:18:39
Speaker
I love that. Okay, two questions before we jump into our hot topic about how to get started with outsourcing your editing. But is there a way that you taught your children empathy or have you always been an empathetic person? We have a canvas of what we call the whole roots rules for life. This was a kind of a list that I came up with a number of years ago with my kids kind of collectively.
00:19:02
Speaker
of what I felt like were the most important principles that I wanted them to learn and ultimately apply in life. And literally the first item on that list has to do with empathy. I think part of the reason that that is number one is because it hasn't always come natural for me, honestly. And so this has been a work in progress for me over the years. And ultimately what I'm learning about that topic
00:19:25
Speaker
I'm trying to teach my kids as well. So, man, it's a good question. How have I effectively taught that? I think a lot of it is just in the conversation, the style of conversation that I have with them, acknowledging
00:19:42
Speaker
Acknowledging what it is that they say verbally. Acknowledging their emotions verbally. Acknowledging what they might be thinking even. And there's a little bit of projection that happens as a result. But I think, oh man, if I was in that situation, I might be thinking this way or feeling this way. And so I acknowledge those things to them.
00:20:01
Speaker
as a way to empathize with them in that conversation, especially if it's a tough conversation, right? Yeah, I love that. So I think a lot of it just comes from demonstrating it in my interaction with them. And then as a result, encouraging them through that. Yeah, you're communicating, you're validating their feelings. I really like that. And I'm, I'm asking like, generally, because I have, you know, four year old and two year old and the four year old's like,
00:20:23
Speaker
four year old going on 16. So very sensitive, you know, like us, we'll talk about our favorite rom coms later. But yeah, I just want to know how to kind of promote empathy. But that's, that's crazy. That's, that's a really good advice. Okay, so one more question before we go into our hot topic, what is your biggest accomplishment in business
00:20:45
Speaker
I think one of the things that I'm most proud of certainly in the last few years is the consistency in which we produce content for the Boca Podcast.
Consistency in Podcasting
00:20:53
Speaker
And part of that is because we're effectively adding value to the industry and we get to hear feedback from people about how it's making a difference in their lives. But also part of that is that I haven't always been the most consistent individual. I'm a very emotional guy. And emotional in the sense that I let my emotions kind of lead the way in many cases as opposed to
00:21:14
Speaker
intentionally, logically making decisions. And that's hurt me personally, it's also hurt me professionally. Okay. And a number of years ago, I made a very concerted decision, a proactive decision that, you know what, I need to show up consistently for the sake of creating this podcast. If I'm going to do this, I need to actually show up. And I was largely motivated by Gary Vaynerchuk. Oh, wow.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I mean he creates just an insane endless amount of content but he was talking about the importance of consistency in showing up and I took that to heart and I applied it and now here we are over 500 podcasts and you know five years later. So that that's exciting for me and really largely because of the values associated with that one to add value to the industry and two to show up consistently as a human being as an individual and so I think that's probably what I'm most proud of.
00:22:05
Speaker
Yeah, today, like, you know, yesterday, me and you had some internet issues. And then, you know, I dreamt about it all night, like kind of stressed. And then I like my dad, we tested the internet, everything. And as soon as I got there, you know, I had all the stuff in the morning. As soon as I got there, he's like, my speaker blew out. And then I was like, what? And I was like, oh, should I go home? I had the two kids. And then luckily my in-laws live close by. So I'm like speeding over here, like trying to figure this out.
00:22:35
Speaker
And in my head, I was like, I kind of want to give up, like, what, what am I doing? Because you're, you know, you're so, like, important to me, our conversation. And but I remember telling you on our last podcast, I was like, something about me, like, I never give up. And you know, every Wednesday, I'm going to publish that podcast, no matter what, it could be for five years or 10 years, but I'm going to do it no matter what, like, if I have to,
00:23:01
Speaker
you know, go to a random stranger, knock on the door, like, I'm gonna record this freaking podcast. So yeah, thank you for saying that. Cool, cool. I'm glad that we got to get a chance to at least know you a little bit better. But what is our hot topic today?
00:23:19
Speaker
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00:23:46
Speaker
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Carissa's Outsourcing Experience
00:24:02
Speaker
I think we're going to talk a little bit about how to get started with outsourcing, right? I mean, it's kind of an overwhelming concept. I think for a lot of photographers, what's your experience been with it? I have outsourced my editing for a long time with this lady in the Philippines. So I get a really good rate. And I think I literally like feed her family.
00:24:22
Speaker
that's really cool yeah so it's hard to leave her but there are some downfalls to her because she is only one person it's not a team so if something happens with her um then you know i don't hear from her for a while and i get really scared because you know obviously this is our livelihoods and i get a little anxious if i
00:24:42
Speaker
Can't get ahold of her, but she knows my style for sure. Um, and she's been with me for over like seven years. So yeah, that's amazing. That's really cool though, that you can develop a relationship like that where you know, you're making a difference in somebody's life too. I think that's brilliant.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah. And she's like, Oh, how's like COVID over there? And I'm like, how's COVID over there? And we kind of paint the picture and it just, we're living two different worlds. Um, like she's sleeping when I'm awake and vice versa. So it's been unique and all I see, I never, you know, talk to her on zoom or anything. We just, uh, chat on Facebook messenger and yeah, we have a nice little relationship. That's super cool. That's really cool. I know she's awesome. And she's the only person I don't like refer to people because it's like,
00:25:25
Speaker
She already doesn't have enough time for me. So I don't think I should refer other photographers. So I refer everyone to you.
00:25:32
Speaker
I really appreciate that. So I'm curious because I'm going to share some suggestions, some ideas about how to get started. And for those that are listening in, how to effectively get started and then continue outsourcing editing, right? Because there is a certain level of commitment that it is a process. But I'm curious from you, Chris, like what, what was the biggest challenge for you getting started? And then what do you think has enabled you to continue this for this many years? It's really impressive.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's like you never get it right the first time, second time, third time. It's definitely a learning curve. People get scared when they have to learn how to do off-camera flash, and then they get scared if they have to make a smart preview in Lightroom. And just everything's so scary because you never did it before. But you have to do it three to five times to get the hang of it. And that was always tough. And just finding our right style that matches.
00:26:29
Speaker
And yeah, it's like once you build that relationship, it just gets better and better because she understands like what I want for the reception shots and the party shots and then what I want for the family shots. So, you know, my reception shots are a little bit more contrasting and then my romantic photos are a little softer. So it's just kind of understanding what to do in different lighting situations and that trust. Like once you build that trust, it's just, um,
00:26:57
Speaker
Like you won't really want to go with anyone else because you've already went through so much together. Yeah. But I'm glad that you actually highlight, and this is a great segue if you don't mind me sharing my first point, which is very simply, and it probably sounds even a little bit cliche, but understanding this as a process and you highlighted that very fact.
00:27:17
Speaker
your willingness to give it a try, not once, not twice, not three times, not four, maybe even five times before it really got dialed in. It speaks to your open-mindedness, number one. Number two, your willingness to commit to a process, which is really, I think, what's important for photographers to realize going in. Because we do live in a day and age where this kind of immediate satisfaction, the quick transaction is the normal thing. We kind of expect that. I do too, so I totally get it.
00:27:46
Speaker
but the reality is that there are some relationships that take a little bit longer to develop and this is one of those now here's the thing we have a super talented editing team and the number of times that i've heard from photographers over the last thirteen years that all my word your editing team can edit better than i even i can like i got these back and i'm absolutely amazed this is the first time that they're getting back in the world.
00:28:07
Speaker
So that is, like we have a super talented editing team, but there are cases, as you described, where maybe it takes two or three times to send an order in, to get the order back, give some feedback to our team, go in, maybe we would tweak some settings, make some adjustments in the way that that order was processed, or maybe make some additional notes in that photographer's profile, their account, and then we process the next order for them. Maybe we dial in a little bit further at that time, and by the third time,
00:28:34
Speaker
we're good to go and then consistently we can move forward from there. But that takes a little bit of commitment to the process. And so I think that's the most important thing. Number one, not even the most important thing, but it's the first step in the process is to acknowledge this isn't just one and done, like dump the images and hope that they turn out really well for committing to a long-term working relationship. And that's super important. And I love that you highlight that. Yeah, thank you. I mean, you got to just
00:28:59
Speaker
It's kind of like that video with like the tortoise and the hare. Like just, you gotta be that kind of like slow but steady in the beginning. But then you kind of win the race. It's very true. But I also don't want to overdramatize it either because again, as long as you are, and this really takes me to my second point, which is to be clear about what you want. You and any other photographer, if you're going to delegate editing to somebody else, and actually for that matter, if you're going to delegate anything,
00:29:25
Speaker
And i've been reminded over and over again as a company owner even the last six eight months year the significance of being extremely clear in the communication process if if you go to hit if you had something to somebody and you wanted to do it for you and you don't even know what it is that you're about to ask what you're asking for.
00:29:46
Speaker
you're going to be pissed off and frustrated for an endless amount of time. Because now there's confusion. You don't quite know what you want. When you communicate to them, now they don't quite know what you want. And then there's just going to be this continued clashing, right? So it's super important. It may seem obvious, but it's super important for us anytime we're delegating something, certainly when it comes to image editing, to be super clear about what it is that we actually want. And what that means in this case is, do you know your editing style?
00:30:12
Speaker
Do you know it well enough that you can actually apply it to your own images to the extent that you can then explain that to somebody else? A lot of times photographers will come to us and they're like, I don't quite know what I'm looking for. I'm wondering if maybe you can kind of come up with something for me. And I appreciate that very much. In fact, we even offered a service for a little while where we would design custom presets.
00:30:32
Speaker
The reality is that a lot of times, if the photographer isn't, in fact, most cases, if a photographer isn't clear about what it is that they want, and they can communicate that to us, there's gonna be some frustration on their part. And unfortunately, their lack of clarity leads to a bad impression about photographer's edit, not because we can't provide a really great service, but they weren't clear about what they wanted to begin with, so they couldn't communicate that to us. And as a result, the finished product didn't match what they were expecting, because actually, they weren't even clear about what they were expecting.
00:31:00
Speaker
Does that make sense? Yeah, no, totally. I think we talked about this on when I was on your podcast, I was telling you, I feel like you always have to understand yourself, what you're doing before you outsource it. Like, I had to learn how to make reels, use attorney music, you know, put the captions, all that jazz, do the transitions before I actually outsource it. Because what if I'm like, what, I don't like this real, like, why did I pay $40 for this, but then
00:31:28
Speaker
you know you don't know how to communicate that and then it goes back and forth and the editor is like well this is not even worth my $40 you know so it just goes on like you are like the engineer like you have to I mean you're not the engineer but like you are like the mastermind like you're the CEO of your business and you have to be able to communicate everything to
00:31:46
Speaker
You guys, photographers edit, and anyone that you're outsourcing with. Awesome. And that's really it. So we start first with the understanding that this is a process you're committing to. It really is. It's a long-term working relationship. But step number two, as long as you're clear about what it is that you're looking for,
00:32:03
Speaker
Literally from the beginning that relationship can be really incredible certainly with a company like photographers who has great systems established and we're ready to take on that information you're sharing with us. But here's number three. Not only do you need to clearly understand what it is that you want but you also need to understand it well enough to the extent that you can communicate it clearly because it's one thing for us to communicate to ourselves inside our head in order to process in Lightroom or whatever it is that we're doing.
00:32:28
Speaker
But it's another thing to take that information inside our head and communicate that to somebody else in a language that is clear enough that is simple enough that they can understand it as well and again this is applicable not just with editing but anytime you hand I could literally say something to me I could hand something to my kid and ask them to do it. I can't just it's funny how I think a lot of times as humans I've been guilty of this over and over.
00:32:51
Speaker
where we ask somebody to do something and then we just kind of expect them to read our mind, subconsciously expect them to read our mind without clearly communicating that thing. So very simply, number three is to communicate what you want simply and clearly. And in order to do so,
00:33:07
Speaker
We talked about the importance of knowing what you want but you need to know what you want in great detail in order to be able to effectively communicate that very simply and clearly and what i've talked about with my team. At photographers that is the importance of understanding something to the extent that.
00:33:23
Speaker
you can communicate on the level of like a third grader can understand or fifth grader can understand that's the level to which we need to understand something in order to be able to communicate effectively to somebody else that's important for anybody delegating it's really really important so that's number three communicate with what you want but do so clearly and simply if you have to write a multiple paragraphs to communicate this
00:33:44
Speaker
you don't understand it well enough because you're not able then to communicate it clearly enough. Yeah, I like that phrase, like keep it simple, stupid or something like that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's totally true, but it's true. We live in 2021 where there's just a lot of noise everywhere.
00:34:00
Speaker
Yeah, actual like audible noise, digital noise, we're scrolling Instagram and Facebook and websites and getting emails and text messages. We just said we're consuming a lot of information. So if you then aren't able to kind of sift through that noise and communicate what it is you want very clearly and simply, it's just going to get lost in that noise to the person that you're communicating to.
00:34:22
Speaker
And again, that relationship becomes more complicated as a result. So it's really important that not only we are willing to take the time to communicate that thing clear, to understand it for ourselves well enough, but then to be able to communicate that clearly and simply. That's number three. That's really, really important. Yeah. What would the example be? Just like, Hey, can you make this more contrasty? And then they make it more like vivid and you're like, no contrasty. Or like, if they say, Oh, I'm more colorful. And you're like, no, like more muted.
00:34:49
Speaker
That's and that's literally it. So it's a perfect example, in fact, because if you say, hey, I like images with high contrast.
00:34:57
Speaker
that phrase could literally mean a hundred different things to a hundred different photographers, right? We perceive that word for ourselves individually, subjectively, we perceive that one way. The person, the photographer next to us perceives it a different way, not only because of how we understand that word, but also because of the way that our eyes see is gonna be different than that person next to us, the way that our brain is processing that information. It's highly subjective. So what we do as part of the process at Photographers Edit when we're asking you to share your editing style,
00:35:24
Speaker
is not only to verbally communicate it, but to give us examples. Here are your images straight out of the camera, just so we see what the baseline is, and then process those same images the way that you would normally process them with your Lightroom preset and adjusting contrast and brightness and white balance like you would, and then upload those same images. So now we have a visual representation.
00:35:45
Speaker
Because if we just stick with those words, words are so subjective in their meaning and ultimately it creates confusion. So we pair the words with the visual examples and that really makes a big difference. Oh, that's crazy. Oh my God. That gives me chills. It's kind of like a science experiment. That's so cool. Okay. Take it away with.
00:36:01
Speaker
Tip number four and five, pretty quick, I won't interrupt you because I really want to ask you some fun rapid-fire questions. Okay, fair enough. So I'm going to continue this theme of communication. It's really what, at the center of a good experience, delegating your editing to somebody else, communication is key. So you've communicated what you want clearly and simply. You share that editing style. We process your order for you. We send it back to you, get it back. If you love it, awesome. If you notice there are a few areas that need to be tweaked, it's important now to also proactively give feedback.
00:36:29
Speaker
It's one thing to communicate your style upfront. That's good. But you get that order back and you see opportunity for improvement there. A lot of photographers, it's funny. I mean, in fact, the number of photographers that have told me over the years that they're afraid or nervous to give us constructive criticism is incredible. They get nervous. They don't want to make us feel bad or whatever the reasoning. I appreciate that. But at the end of the day, the relationship gets better.
00:36:49
Speaker
I mean, certainly even in personal relationships, right? When there is room to give feedback. So give feedback. That's number four. Make sure that you give feedback after each order. Positive feedback, great. Some constructive criticism, awesome. We get better for it, and the long-term working relationship improves as a result. And then I think the last thing, and this is just kind of a general concept to keep in mind.
00:37:09
Speaker
because a lot of photographers, they think about outsourcing editing. Some of them are like, you know what, I don't like to process my own images. It's frustrating, it's stressful, I have too many images, whatever the reason, but they don't want to process themselves. So it comes more natural for those photographers to outsource their editing. But one of the arguments that is made in this context of outsourcing or delegating work a lot of times in our photography industry is,
00:37:33
Speaker
If you like that thing, hold on to it. If you don't like that thing, outsource it. And I think it's a broken logic because I could make a million different arguments here or give a million different examples. But I could say, hey, you know what? I love watching Netflix. So because I love watching Netflix, I'm going to literally do that 24 seven all the time. I'm just going to eat cereal and watch Netflix because I like doing that.
00:37:57
Speaker
The notion that we're going to make an argument based on personal preference, something that we like doing, and that's going to literally drive what our decisions that we make in our business is really, really broken. And it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to see that. So what I would argue in this context, because a lot of photographers say, I like editing my images, so I don't want to delegate that.
00:38:18
Speaker
Editing is just very simply the most time consuming element of running a photography business. What that's interfering with is the two things I mentioned earlier. One, focusing on the things that will actually grow your business. Editing images doesn't help you increase revenue or book more clients. And number two, it's interfering with what is really most important in life, which is the relationships in your life.
00:38:38
Speaker
So I would encourage you to give up the notion that you just hold on to the things that you like, because in many cases it's probably going to interfere with your overarching goals as a business owner, as a human being. Go ahead and delegate that editing.
Advice on Delegating Tasks
00:38:49
Speaker
The cool thing is it's not mutually exclusive. You don't have to give it all up. If you want to process a few images for social media or the blog, great, go ahead and do that. But then give up the majority of that busy work so that it frees you up to focus on the things that will not only grow your business, but ultimately improve your relationships as well.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And once you outsource it, you'll never look back. And I've heard that from so many different photographers. And like you said, I do the same thing. Like I edit the sneak peeks and I actually like to see what I shot because it helps me improve and see what I did right and see what I did wrong. And then, you know, I'm not going to edit 800, 900 photos. That's going to take me all day. I could be spending that day at the beach with
00:39:25
Speaker
my kiddos and my family. But yeah, this is a great, all those points were so amazing. So we're going to do some rapid fire questions. So, you know, I'm a hopeless romantic. So how did you and Jill get together? And you could tell a little backstory about like how she works with you and stuff.
00:39:46
Speaker
Yeah, well, okay, so Jill does. So Jill is my girlfriend. She works with me now. She's heading up our digital marketing at Photographers Edit and the associated brands. But we actually met originally back in high school. So we went to the same high school. This is years and years ago. And we never dated at the time. We were friends. There was a little bit of something there, but nothing ever happened from it. And our lives went separate directions. She got married, had a couple of kids. I did the same thing. And then those relationships ended and
00:40:15
Speaker
I actually, it's been eight years, almost to the day, August 23rd of 2013. And I have the screenshot. I just sent it to her yesterday. She sent me a Facebook message and all it said was, it said, happy birthday. I hope you're well or something to that effect. Just very simple message.
00:40:31
Speaker
I clicked on her profile. I looked around a little bit. I was like, hmm. So I sent her a message and asked her if she wanted to get coffee. We ended up having dinner and the rest really is kind of history to keep it simple. Awesome. So what does she do for your company? What's her role?
00:40:48
Speaker
She's heading up digital marketing. She produces really anything that is forward facing for the sake of the brand and ultimately building the brand on the marketing front, including our podcast. She is overseeing that. Social media production of the podcast, social media advertising,
00:41:04
Speaker
a lot of the work that we're doing for SEO on the front end of our website. Frankly, it's a lot of work and she's been super gracious to take that on. She came from the education world. So this has also been a massive shift for her, but she's just like head down all in and it's just doing a really, really great job. And by the way, our numbers are up insane amounts at this point. So it's pretty exciting too. Wow. Yeah. You guys make a super cute couple and I could just feel like, so we have to have,
00:41:32
Speaker
you and Jill on the podcast and we have to talk about like working with your significant other. Oh, I love that. I would love that. It's been a wild experience. It was actually one of our biggest apprehensions going into the working relationship that started about six months ago. And you know, I'll say and yeah, let's talk about on the podcast sometime, but I'll say briefly that it's actually played out really, really well. And we've been super intentional in the way that we've approached it, but it's played out awesome.
00:41:55
Speaker
Cool. Cool. Yeah. I'm so excited to have you guys on. Okay. So next question. Um, what is your favorite rom-com? You asked me this question on your podcast. Oh man. That's tough. Okay. So my favorite, my favorite movie kind of all time is Goodwill hunting. And you could kind of put that in rom-com territory, like some elements of it. So I probably have to say Goodwill hunting.
00:42:16
Speaker
Yes, I love it. Okay, what is something that we don't know about you that you don't post on social media, you go to Planet Fitness, Jill's your girlfriend, you have a motorcycle, you're into fitness. What other things that we don't know about you?
00:42:33
Speaker
Hmm, something random. Okay. I played, I played clarinet up into college. I was actually a clarinet performance minor going into college and clarinet, you know, clarinets that band instrument that you play in grade school and you squeak and make terrible noises. And then you stop and you never do anything with it again.
00:42:49
Speaker
I wanted to go all in professional and clarinet is a classical instrument traditionally or a band instrument. I wanted to go pop with it. I heard Kenny G, but when I was growing up, Kenny G was a thing. I was like, I want to do Kenny G, but I want to do it with a clarinet. Needless to say, that didn't happen.
00:43:06
Speaker
I played that up into college and I still like playing every once in a while. It's a lot of fun. My son has now kind of picked up that ball and run with it. He's a jazz saxophone major at University of Tennessee in Knoxville. And he also is playing a little bit of clarinet along with that. Yeah. My husband played like the flute or something. Okay. Or something. So who was your favorite guest on your podcast?
00:43:30
Speaker
Honestly, I don't have an answer to it. I've done so many episodes. What I will say is that, man, that's so tough, because every once in a while there's this one that like the chemistry is really good with the gas. And my, of course, my biggest priority, I think we talked about this before is it's just value add, even if it's
00:43:47
Speaker
We're not talking, it doesn't have to be earth-shattering information. Just as long as it's actionable, practical content for business owners that can go and take and apply to their life and to their business, I'm happy. So those are the episodes where I feel like not only chemistry was good, the conversation flowed much like ours has today, but then also that they have something they can take away and go do something with. So they're not just kind of, I mean, I appreciate podcasts for entertainment, but I want to give them something they can do
00:44:11
Speaker
the go act on. And when that happens, I feel really good about that, especially when you hear from from the listeners are like, Oh my goodness, this this made a big impact, or this really helped me out my business that that's the most fulfilling.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, I just listened to that Bourgeois girl. I forget her name, but that was really good. She makes a killing. Do you remember her name? With IPS. Yes, IPS. I had a lot of takeaways from that episode and you were just like, you know, she had like a bazillion, bazillion action items to do. But yeah, all of your episodes are very like action oriented. So yeah, go on.
00:44:47
Speaker
I was going to say that, I mean, that really is, that really is the biggest thing. So, I mean, the one, the one that we did, you're talking about IPS for Boudoir photography. It's episode 5 17 with Sarah Andrew, um, that we just published recently. Yes. Oh yeah. Okay. There I'll link her in the notes. Okay. I want to come up with one more question and then we'll tell people like where to find you. Um, let's see, what can I ask you? Do you want to ask me a question? I actually, yeah. So how did, do you have a significant other in your life? Yes.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yes, he's a cop. Okay. So how did you guys meet? Like what's, what's that initial connection? What did that look like? Same with you. Like we were, went to high school together and then, um, we went off to college and we weren't friends, but same, same Asian group. And then I think a couple of years after college, we just started seeing each other in like Hermosa beach. I'm from, um, like LA area. And then, yeah, we just kinda were like, Oh, you're single. I'm single. And,
00:45:47
Speaker
Like, yeah, we got together that single that day and then engaged in a year married in the next year and then baby the next year and then another baby. So we were on the fast track. Okay. So I have to ask a more specific question then. What is like, what's the thing that if you just stop for a second and think about him, that just like gets your heart, like melts your heart, the thing that just like draws you to him. Oh yeah. He has a really good face.
00:46:16
Speaker
Yeah. Um, really good smile and like a very, very good stature. So he's just, yeah, just like you look at him and he just has a nice face. Okay. Okay. And it kind of warms your heart. He just always smiling. Oh, see that's nice. Yeah. I, as much as like the world has become kind of a cynical place, it's so refreshing to actually engage with somebody who is genuinely happy. I think that's awesome. Yeah. He's super simple. Um, can I just ask you that same question and then we'll,
00:46:45
Speaker
tell people where to find you. Yeah. You know, I've learned so much from Jill in the realm of we talked about consistency earlier. Mm hmm. Somebody who with like minimal drama just shows up day after day after day and just is who she is. Mm hmm. That is that is super. It was kind of an anomaly to me. Honestly, I wasn't used to that in the context of a romantic relationship.
00:47:11
Speaker
And I wasn't exhibiting that in my life personally. So it's not only been super, I mean, it's just been wonderful for the sake of developing a relationship with her.
Reflections on Personal Influence
00:47:21
Speaker
But it's also been ultimately a spotlight that's been kind of not because she was trying to do it, but just I'm seeing her behavior. I'm like, Oh, shoot, like I am super inconsistent on these different levels. I need out my game. And so it's ultimately pushed me to be a better human too. So that that's the big thing that sticks out to me. I wish we could go more deeper into that. But
00:47:40
Speaker
Tell people where to find you, Nathan Holritz, and then your lasting words to photographers. So the easiest way to kind of see everything that I'm doing is if you just go to Nathan Holritz, so it's N-A-T-H-A-N, Holritz, H-O-L-R-I-T-Z.com, and that will literally take you to every single business adventure that I'm associated with. Photographers edit and book a podcast certainly that we've talked about today. So NathanHolritz.com, same thing on Instagram and Facebook, Nathan Holritz. Please don't hesitate to DM me if you want to chat about anything.
00:48:10
Speaker
the last note, the last comment, I would say, and I actually have this on my Facebook, the banner on my Facebook profile, it's what you make of it. I think there's a tendency in our culture these days to kind of, whether it's conscious or subconscious, just kind of give responsibility for the life that we're living to other people or other things or our past or how we feel or whatever.
00:48:38
Speaker
At the end of the day, we have this cool thing called choice. I actually have a tattoo on the inside of my wrist and we have the ability to choose to make the life that we want. And so it's what you make of it in the end. Own that. And it's amazing how your life will shift dramatically, almost instantaneously. Oh, I love that. Thank you, Nathan. We did it. We did it.
00:49:04
Speaker
Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine. See you next time, wedding pros.