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Trail Running Series: Racing, Adventures and FKTs
13.5k Plays1 year ago
We are beginning a new educational series focused on trail running. Uphill Athlete has long coached and supported trail runners, but we are dedicating even more time and attention to this ever growing sport. Along with this podcast, we are also launching a trail running training group in June led by coaches Alexa Hasman, Brian Passenti and Alyssa Clark. We are revamping our training plans and have many experienced trail running coaches on staff available for one on one coaching.
In this episode, Brian and Alyssa discuss the history of trail running along with the wide variety of races and adventures out there for mountain athletes. They touch on mountain safety, the culture of trail running and why this community is so special to many. Come join in on the trail running fun and be welcomed with open arms to this growing but tight knit space.
Visit us at www.uphillathlete.com or drop us a note at [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to Uphill Athlete Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the uphill athlete podcast. Our mission is to elevate and inspire all mountain athletes through education and celebration. My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today.
New Series & Training Group Launch
00:00:11
Speaker
We are beginning a new educational series focused on trail running.
00:00:25
Speaker
Uphill athlete has long coached and supported trail runners, but we are dedicating even more time and attention to this ever-growing sport. Along with this podcast, we're also launching a trail running training group in June led by coaches, Alexa Hasman, Brian Pecente, and myself. We are re-ramping our training plans and have many experienced trail running coaches on staff available for one-on-one coaching.
Brian Pecente's Endurance Journey
00:00:50
Speaker
We are thrilled to bring on Brian to kick off our first episode in the series covering trail running. Brian has been involved with endurance sports for over 40 years and has years of coaching experience from one mile to 240.
00:01:05
Speaker
He has seven Leadville 100 finishes, two Moab 240 finishes, and many, many other ultras under his belt. Brian coaches a wide variety of athletes from high school track stars to first time 200 miler runners. Thanks for being on the show, Brian. Thanks for having me, Alyssa. I'm happy to be here.
00:01:26
Speaker
It's so fun because I think the first time that we met in person, we, well, I was told by Steve that, Hey, there's this other guy that we're planning to bring on as a coach and huh, funny. He happens to be doing Moab 240 at the same time that you are. So we met at the end of Moab 240 on the last day as we were cheering in the other competitors. And I was like, Oh, this guy.
00:01:53
Speaker
He knows what's up. He's a good dude. And I think we shared some pizza together. You brought me some blankets because I was freezing cold. And it's awesome to be on the same team as you today.
From Track to Ultra-Distances
00:02:05
Speaker
So how did you get your start in endurance events and coaching? And what brought you to a Pill Athlete? Thanks, Alyssa. Hey, I've been running since elementary school. I started as a...
00:02:20
Speaker
a track star, moved into cross country, and I've been in the endurance sports spot ever since, all through the military and into my adult years.
00:02:33
Speaker
I dabbled in Iron Man distance triathlons for a bit and kind of landed in ultra distance in 2009.
Evolution of Trail Running
00:02:43
Speaker
I've just kind of always lived in that space and really enjoyed it. I came aboard just actually right while we were in conversation at the finish line of OAB 240 in October. Steve and I were talking about a spot on the team for me and so it worked out and
00:03:02
Speaker
happy to be here ever since. And it's been a great experience. That's awesome. Yeah, there was a coaches, a bunch of coaches meetings that were happening right after Moab. And I just remember being on the call thinking, why am I doing this? I can't keep my eyes open.
00:03:19
Speaker
It's also it's so cool because you started in 2009. A lot of us are much more in the mid the mid 10s. But so you really saw a lot of the evolution of the sport. It's grown so much. But you knew some of the G's. And I guess go ahead, Brian.
00:03:39
Speaker
Oh yeah, I think I just read Born a Run quicker than anyone else did. I must have had one of the first copies. I feel like I had one of the first copies. I think that's how I got my start just quicker than you guys did.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. For me, it was ultra marathon, ma'am. I was like, this guy's nuts, but let's do it. This sounds great. I think it was like 10 years old when I read that. Um, so I'd love to hear what is trail running to you.
Trail Running's Mainstream Growth
00:04:03
Speaker
And then if you could give us some history, especially as we were just talking about the growth in the last 10 to 20 years, it's just insane. I'd love to hear your perspective on that.
00:04:15
Speaker
So I think trail running is new. I mean, it doesn't feel new. There's nothing new about running on a trail, but I think this ultra endurance world, ultra distance running is fairly new to the scene. I just had some athletes run the Boston Marathon and that was at 127th annual Boston Marathon. So when we put it into perspective, I want to say that
00:04:44
Speaker
Western States was in 1974 with Gordy Ainslie, the Western States 100 endurance run. Leadville was started in 1983, the Leadville 100, and the Vermont 100 was started in 1989. So when we think of the Boston Marathon and its longevity, it's over 125 years old. And our signature races, races that are big time in our world, in the ultra running world, aren't that old, quite honestly.
00:05:12
Speaker
40, almost 50 years I guess at this point for western states. So not in comparison to road running or the marathon and I think it's just really, really expanded since 2009.
00:05:33
Speaker
A quick short story is that I actually signed up for the 2010 Leadville Trail 100 and I'm almost certain I mailed in a check and there was no waitlist, there was no nothing. I think I mailed in a check in February, like fairly late in the season, not late in the season, but I was training to see if it was possible and then I mailed in my check.
00:05:58
Speaker
Again, we don't even do that anymore. I mailed in a check and got mailed back a letter saying I was invited to the event because I paid. The space has grown. I think there's some statistic that it's like 300% year over year or something along those lines. Now we have lotteries. The big races are filling up super quickly. You've got to be on
00:06:20
Speaker
Ultra sign up super fast to get into some of these events. And it's great. It's great for the sport. It's great for our community. It's great to be part of it and to see it. There's races that I have athletes asking if they should put them on the calendar or not that I haven't even heard of sometimes.
00:06:40
Speaker
Because the the weekends are full. I mean if you go to ultra sign up, there's probably 10 races this weekend There's 10 races next weekend and so on and so forth. So so the space is really just Exponentially growing faster than we could ever have imagined from my point of view from 2009
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's insane to me, with the growth of races per weekend, like I started back in 2015. And you'd be lucky if there was one in your area every month, maybe. And now it's like, oh my gosh, there's races every weekend. And I'm sure you felt this too, to a much greater extent than I did. When I said I was an ultra marathon runner, people had no idea what I was talking about. They were like, I'm sorry, what?
00:07:25
Speaker
Classic, I don't even want to drive my car that far. I'm like, I don't either, which is why I run. And so people just had no idea what it was. And now it's mainstream. And everyone has a brother, a sister, themselves, a friend who does ultra marathons. Like truly, I mean, Candace coined the term of 200 is the new 100, but 50K to 50 miler is the new marathon. Almost 100 miler is the new marathon, which is a little bit scary.
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There is definitely something to be said for that.
00:08:03
Speaker
In the 2000s, I think the marathon was the staple. And I feel like, oh, five to 10 or even 15, maybe there was a little shift to Ironman triathlon. That's true. Long course triathlon for a little bit. And then quickly it went to ultra running. And initially, again, the same thing that you just said, nobody knew what an ultra was. And now there's the six degrees of separation. Somebody knows somebody.
00:08:29
Speaker
that you know when when i say i'm an ultra runner this oh do you know you know my cousin he he he did western states and i'm like i don't know your cousin i've never done western states but but so we all know somebody in that space now that has done you know the 100k or 100 miler or or greater
00:08:47
Speaker
Definitely. It's kind of like, Oh, your cousin lives in Chicago. Oh, you must know such and such. And you're like, it's small. It's a small community, but it is growing quickly. And then you look them up and they know five people that you know, and you're like, Oh, okay. It's still about that big. Um, for sure. Yeah, I, it's, it's crazy to me too, because I truly think of 2020 in many ways as kind of the, I called it the year of
Types of Trail Races
00:09:15
Speaker
ultra running because I think
00:09:17
Speaker
When the pandemic happened, people felt that there wasn't as much of a barrier to entry. I think there was a lot of intimidation behind entering a race, cutoffs, etc., and the fear of not finishing. And when the pandemic happened, people A, had more time to train because they were working from home.
00:09:36
Speaker
you know, doing something outside it all of a sudden it wasn't so much about a race as a personal adventure, which I think that's truly the core of ultra running is it really is a personal adventure. These are not distances where you just go out and say, ah, you know, I decided on a whim on Saturday, I'd go run 510 miles, which is a long distance.
00:09:56
Speaker
It's something you really have to work up to. And so I think actually by not having races, it lowered the barrier of entry and people started doing the David Goggins challenge, they did all these things and realized, oh, I just did a 50k or oh, I'm an ultra marathon runner now. And that
00:10:12
Speaker
opened the space to allow people to get into races to do all these personal adventures. And I think that it's a beautiful thing that happened out of that time period is people just realized they were capable of a lot more than they thought they were. Definitely. And I see that, like you touched on, I think the 2020 pandemic lockdown needing to get some outside space.
00:10:43
Speaker
created that space where it doesn't have to be a race. It doesn't have to be an event. I don't have to pay 150 bucks up to 1000 bucks to go and go to a starting line with other runners. I can create it in my backyard. I can create it near my neighborhood. I can create it in the trails near my house. And all those are acceptable. It really kind of lowered that barrier, entry barrier like you mentioned, yeah.
00:11:10
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think, as I mentioned, it goes to the core of ultra running, which when we get in these races, yes, you know, maybe at the highest 5% to 10% are racing each other. But truly, it is yourself against the distance with these other people to help you. I mean, one of the most beautiful things I think of when I think of ultra running is that there is a clause in almost every race that says you must help someone who is in need.
00:11:40
Speaker
you are your race is never more important than helping someone through an injury through whatever they need. And it is your responsibility to stop and help them. And I think that truly to me has always defined the ultra running spirit. And I've seen it in racing all the time, where you offer someone food, you offer someone water, it's like, it's not about your individual accomplishment. It's about how do we collectively move through these
00:12:10
Speaker
these places and move through these distances that people for a long time didn't think was even possible. The Trio running community is not selfish at all. They're completely giving and their crews, their support teams are all completely giving as well. I've gotten aid and service, you know, in an appropriate spot at appropriate aid stations from other crews though. Yeah, just to put that in there.
00:12:37
Speaker
But from other crews that don't know me and are just, you know, I think we all have the general idea that we want to be better than we were yesterday. And that means like, let's help everyone get to the finish line. I may not be racing you, Alyssa, but we're racing our former selves and our crews can help each other accomplish that goal.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I see it so often my husband, he wants to become a professional crewer, which we're working on that. And
00:13:12
Speaker
he so many times I finish a race and he's best friends with everyone at the finish line and then someone else crosses and gives him a big hug and it's like he's been helping them the entire race and giving advice and giving them food and you're just like what a cool time this is what a cool community and and people are there because they want to be there not because there's financial gain because there really is not much at all if any
00:13:38
Speaker
And so it's so fun to see that, especially I mean, pacing itself is such a selfless act, too. And that's, we're getting really far into the weeds and we'll get there. But yeah, it's just it's an amazing group of people and the willingness to step outside of yourself is such an important part of it. Yeah, but okay, let's get back to back to it.
00:14:06
Speaker
I guess one thing that I'd love to hear from you, because I think that to reduce some of that intimidation factor, do all trail runs have
Trail Race Distances & Measurement
00:14:15
Speaker
to be ultras? We so often put them together. But what are some standard distances that we have? Are there different lengths of events at races? I'd love to hear you're so knowledgeable. How do we think about trail running?
00:14:29
Speaker
So I guess we should just back up one step and define what an ultra is. An ultra event in the running world, in the running community, is an event that's longer than 26.2 miles. And 26.2 is the benchmark for a marathon. And so that's by definition what an ultra distance is.
00:14:52
Speaker
I always joke that if you are late to a marathon and you run to the start, you run an ultra, you're done. If you're running from the porta potty line to the starting line, you're over.
00:15:05
Speaker
Exactly. So that's the definition, but trail running doesn't have to be ultras. There are all sorts of distances. The standard ones that we see are the 10 kilometers, a trail, half marathon, which is 13.1, the full marathon.
00:15:25
Speaker
at the 50 kilometer distance, 50 miles, 100 kilometers, and 100 miles are the standard ones. We are starting to see a little more of the 200s gaining momentum as well. And those are the standards, I should say, but gosh, every... So many variations. But there are so many variations. There are so many races that fall between those standards. They'll say, hey, we got an 8K this weekend, or we have a 22K, or
00:15:54
Speaker
They just, you know, they come close. And I think that that's another quick point is that the distances are, are vague at best. I don't think there's a, I don't think that you could start your watch and expect to land at the finish line at 22k. If they say it's 22k. That's such a great point. It's usually pretty vague. It's, you know, it's a little short, it's a little long. So
00:16:23
Speaker
So be graceful with the race organization and know that it's not a standard distance. I think your road marathons, your Boston marathons is like a certified course and that's 26.2 miles. I mean, that's certified. There's somebody out there with a wheel that's walking it and doing all the tangents and figuring it out. But when we get into trail running, it's a vague description of the length of the course.
00:16:49
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Especially, I'm not trying to call out the European side of things, but but the European side of things toward a genre I always say is like 250 miles at minimum and everyone's like, No, it's 220 30 miles. I'm like, No, when I hit 100 miles, I, they I was like 20
00:17:11
Speaker
like 150 miles, I was 20 miles longer than they said. And I was like, Nope, that is this is almost a full marathon difference of what you've said. And I'm barely halfway. So yeah, it's that it's we just call it bonus miles. It's just more fun. So I think that's actually a really great tip within that is never be so caught up on the distance that you don't have a little bit more to give because chances are it's going to be incorrect. And that's okay.
00:17:42
Speaker
And that's the difference in trail running. It's a little more vague. It's a little harder to get out there and walk the course and know what the distances are. And then the GPS technology is a little bit different for everyone's watch, whatever they're using to calculate that distance is always a little bit off as well. You and I can run the exact same course to the mailbox impact for my house and it'll come out different on both of our watches. So we just know that and accept it as is.
00:18:10
Speaker
Absolutely, just more for your money. The other thing I just want to point out because to those who are newer to those distances, it's very interesting. We kind of vacillate between distant points of using kilometers and miles. I think that shows how global ultra running is and kind of the roots of it. But
00:18:31
Speaker
When we say a 50K, that's approximately 32-ish miles. When we say a 100K, that's approximately 62 miles. So it is really interesting how we go back and forth in those two. And as an ultramarine, you get really good at converting kilometers to miles. It's probably one of the only things I'm good at math in.
00:18:52
Speaker
and shock people with my skills, as opposed to trying to calculate tips on my fingers. But yeah, that's, there's a lot of going back and forth between kilometers and miles. So if you're, if you're seeing actually 100 miler, so like UTMB, for example, is about 105 miles, and that's approximately 170 kilometers ish.
00:19:16
Speaker
right around there. I'm looking at you, Brian, as I just bragged about it. But yeah. And I'm shaking my head because I'm not exactly sure what BTMB course is claiming to be their kilometer distance. Yeah. 100 miles is approximately 160-ish kilometers is kind of the conversion. So if you're seeing that, that's what we're thinking about. But yeah, there's a lot of back and forth. And truly, distance is just a figment of our imagination. So really, it doesn't matter. That's right.
00:19:45
Speaker
So we've talked about distances, but within, man, there's so much. What are the different kinds of races that are available?
Exploring Trail Race Formats
00:19:55
Speaker
We think like the traditional mountainous, you know, UTMB or any of that, but what are some other types of racing that we can do?
00:20:06
Speaker
Gosh, yeah, there's the standard or the typical starting line, the big race, everyone goes, and we all finish when we get there. Inside of that, there's point to point, which means you start at one
00:20:26
Speaker
one side and you run the distance of the event to another finish line somewhere else so there's navigational challenges for getting to the starting line and or getting back to the getting to the finish line your vehicle and dropping cars off and all that kind of stuff and the race usually has a good explanation of how to do that whether it's a shuttle bus or if they have
00:20:49
Speaker
some sort of way of transporting it back and forth. There's looped courses. So I'll use a 5K as an example, a 5K loop course. And it's just one example. There's many different variations of... You can have a 240-mile looped course too. Oh, that's true. That's true, actually. You're totally right.
00:21:10
Speaker
So yes, you can do a looped course where you, so actually it's Candace's a little bit of claim to fame in Moab is that it's a looped course and so none of it is repetitive. And exactly what that means is you're going to go out on yourself and come back on a different route and never get on the same course again.
00:21:30
Speaker
or a piece of course that you've been on already. There's no outbacks, there's no turnarounds, you're just running in a complete loop and you come back into the finish line from the starting line that you went out prior to however many days ago that was. So there's a loop course in that way but I was also thinking of a loop course of like a 5k loop and you run continuous loops of that.
00:21:57
Speaker
That's actually fairly common these days. And it's actually great training runs, I think. Some sort of loop course. You have eight every 5K. You have your vehicle potentially at the start finish line of that 5K. So you can have your night gear and your day gear and your sunscreen and your refills and all those things that you would need out on a course. But you're never too far away from the vehicle on a looped course.
00:22:25
Speaker
Oh gosh, there is relay events of eight to four participants or even greater or less than of those numbers. They tend to be point to point in your leapfrogging a vehicle and running at the same time. So one participant would run, you would run like one, I'll listen and I would run like two and then we'd have a participant run like three, a teammate.
00:22:50
Speaker
And they seem to be fun and a lot of camaraderie, a lot of team building in that type of event. There's hourly timed events. So there's six hours, 12 hours, 18 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours. Gosh, I bet you there's 72 hours. There are, there's 72, there's six day.
00:23:10
Speaker
So if I dug deep enough, I bet you on UltraSignup, you could find any type of hourly event you're looking for or near what you're looking for. And they typically run on a looped course. And so you run, back to my example, you run your 5K for six hours and you try to log as many miles and or laps as you can in that timeframe.
Understanding Last Man Standing Races
00:23:32
Speaker
The one I didn't touch on just yet, which was a little bit tougher to explain is the last band standing.
00:23:38
Speaker
And this format or the origins of this format is that it was a four point, you're going to have to correct me here, a 4.12. 16667. If we did exactly 24 hours, it would be 100 miles is the 4.16667.
00:24:02
Speaker
a 4.16667 mile loop in one hour. And you continue that every hour for 24 hours. And like Alyssa explained it, the math comes out to be 100 miles in 24 hours. So you have a full hour to cover the 4.1
00:24:23
Speaker
roughly two miles to get there but you can't start before the next hour and you have to finish within the previous hour or the current hour I guess I should say and if you don't then you're cut off and you can't start the next lap.
00:24:41
Speaker
and so each hour is almost a race a mini race in itself and there's no winner of each lap but in order to move on you have to complete in the time period of the one hour and be back to the starting line ready to start your next lap at the top of the hour. That was the standard or the origins of it but there are variations of that now
00:25:05
Speaker
a little bit shorter, 30 minutes, whatever it might be. There's different plays on that as well. And so that last man standing only leaves one finisher who is inevitably the winner and everyone else is a DNF. It did not finish.
00:25:23
Speaker
in that regard. So you may run for 26 hours but the inevitable winner may run for 32 hours and finish 32 laps of whatever the distance is that the race dictates. So those are some of just some and I think I probably missed a few. I took some notes. Those are the notes I took and I'm not sure if Alyssa had any more that I might have missed but
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, the only ones, well, yeah, there's so many variations. Other ones I can think of are out and backs. Um, so you're doing just a big old run out 50 miles and run back 50 miles, which is what Leadville is. Um, it can be really fun in many ways because you get to see people along the way. I've always really enjoyed that. Um, you can have like hurt is an out and back loop.
00:26:14
Speaker
which is kind of wild you do these kind of like spider legs so you'll go out you'll it's a loop but it's like an out in the back and out in the back on the loop and then crisscrossing and yeah so it can be kind of all over the place um yeah I mean they're the only thing I can
00:26:35
Speaker
Also think of, and there's tons, there's stage racing. Um, so that's where you run a certain distance during a day and then you camp out, spend the night somewhere. Um, that's, and for some of the stage racing, you carry everything you need on your back. And then for other stage racing, um, they, the company, whatever the race is brings your stuff with you. So you just have what you need for running.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I guess if you're thinking of stage racing, stage racing is similar to like the Tour de France. You have a race a day and then the rest of the afternoon and or evening you're off, recovering.
00:27:21
Speaker
In trail running, we usually see that you're camping at the start finish line for the next day. Race management can either cart some belongings to the next finish line for you, or depending on the event, you'd have to carry your own gear. But the next day would be a different race. You get a cumulative time, and they usually award each day's stage winner, as well as an overall winner of the whole event of, say, six stages.
00:27:49
Speaker
the six stage overall winner, and then each stage has its own specific winner of each event. So yeah, and one of the most, I would say probably the one that going back, I don't, I mean, people know of it, but I don't think it's actually quite as famous as it used to be, but the marathon dissolve is probably one of the most famous stage races out there. And that's where you're, you're not carrying your temp, but you're carrying all of your food,
00:28:18
Speaker
Gear and all that which that is a wild set of logistics when you are trying to figure out food Management because as we all know with running it gets you really hungry and so if you mismanage your calories that can be really
00:28:34
Speaker
really tough. So stage racing is that with each of these, there's huge levels of logistics that go into it. And it all just kind of depends on what appeals to you. The only one I was going to add is there are within those hourly events often done on a track. And so you can have people doing track timed events. So they're running around
00:28:58
Speaker
and they have aid anytime they want. But that can also be detrimental because you can waste a lot of time picking up aid as well. So yeah, there's pretty much like for everyone.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great point, Alyssa. You know, I think the reason that the track timed events, like the track 24 hours or 36 hours, 48 hours, whatever it might be, fall into the trail running realm is because it's still considered a soft surface. The track is, it has that rubber track and it's not so hard on your feet as like asphalt or something like that. But a quarter mile at a time is a lot of laps to cover in 24 hours.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yes, yes, I just tried to do a timed event on a two mile route and got to 50 km was like, well, I'm good for the day. I'm I want to be out in the mountains running in a single direction for two miles. So have my hats off to those who do the timed events and the looping.
00:30:04
Speaker
I think definitely, though, there's a space for everyone. I mean, you and I both enjoy the mountains and ups and downs and trail. And neither is here nor there, but I think there's a space for everyone in ultra running to figure out what they enjoy and where they might find an event.
00:30:25
Speaker
Exactly. And I think that I mean, that's why we're talking about this, but it truly is what inspires you to get out there, what motivates you to challenge yourself in a way you've never challenged yourself before. And for us, we find mountains to be that thing that lights our souls on fire. For other people, it's how fast can I cover this distance? And for others, you know, having the
00:30:51
Speaker
Safety of an aid station right there of coming back to your family of having that community that's really appealing especially maybe if you're newer to it or have kids or something like that so it really comes down to what inspires you to get out there and motivates you to challenge yourself.
00:31:13
Speaker
So we're going to tap into one other aspect of, um, well, there's so many other aspects, but another type of running slash moving through space that isn't technically a race and you get to do it anytime you want.
The Rise of FKTs during COVID
00:31:32
Speaker
So Brian, what is an FKT?
00:31:37
Speaker
And FKT is a fastest known time. It's the acronym for fastest known time. And a fastest known time is, it's not an event. It's a process where an athlete takes on a known route that has been established by GPS, a starting point, a finish point, and then a route within that,
00:32:06
Speaker
within those confines of the starting line and finish line. And you're trying to do it as quickly as possible. Go ahead.
00:32:18
Speaker
No, I was just gonna say, think of like the John Muir Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, the Appalachian Trail, those are really long versions of it. The Grand Canyon, rim to rim to rim. So trails that actually a lot of people would know, but you're trying to do it the fastest known time. So that's kind of been the differentiating factor is that there might have been times that were faster, but they weren't recorded, they weren't, you know,
00:32:48
Speaker
know and about. So now it's like it's essentially a world record for that specific trail space distance route the route for sure. I think that we saw fastest known times have been around for for a decent amount of time. I think they got their origins as well back in 2010 2012 ish area. There's a website dedicated to it. I think buzz buzz Braille still
00:33:18
Speaker
managing a part of that or at least has his name on it as one of the founders of it. There's definitely more and more routes getting established in those confines.
00:33:35
Speaker
I think for the everyday person looking to get in the trail running, even for myself, FKTs aren't a space that I'm going to go do, but like I'm not going to go try to get the fastest known time on a particular route. But it's great to go in there and check out some of the routes and see what other people are doing and capable of. And then I actually like to go out and go run.
00:33:59
Speaker
a route knowing it's not going to be the fastest. And then going back and looking to see what the fastest was and being completely awe-inspired that the fastest known time is literally twice as fast as I ran it on my good day. So I think there's something to that. A fastest known time allows for
00:34:23
Speaker
The athlete to wait for like a weather window, that's perfect. You don't have to race next Sunday and not know what the weather's going to be. You don't have to, your race might have been canceled or something else. You might have a ton of fitness and you could just go test yourself on an FKT.
00:34:43
Speaker
and give it a test if you don't do well at it or if you don't claim the FKT you can go back tomorrow and try it again or you could go back next week and try it again so there's I think there's a couple like supported and unsupported as well which is like splitting hairs there but maybe you could touch on that.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say I'm happy to talk about that too. Brian, do you have any FKTs or ever? No. Oh, okay. All right. Got to change that at some point soon. Personally, I love FKTs. They really actually exploded, I think, again in 2020 when there weren't racing opportunities. We saw some of the
00:35:25
Speaker
the hardest most competitive routes just be I mean, fought after like a race, which was really fun. So there's three different ways that you can do an FKT. I love FKT is I have a couple of them. One on a particularly long trail and one on a particularly technical trail. And so an FKT, you can do the
00:35:55
Speaker
The most race like is supported. So a supported FKT means that you can use any kind of aid anywhere you want. People can literally like I've had people hand me Oreos outside of a car. So you don't have to carry anything. You can have your
00:36:18
Speaker
your pacers carry or pack for you as long as they don't push you forward, or they you know, they don't do anything where like they're actively moving you in a direction. It's super fun, because you really can put down very fast times with a full support, which in races, often there's much more limiting factors about what you can do. So that's fully supported, then they're self supported, which means that you do not have someone who is with you, but you can
00:36:48
Speaker
Say leave a package for yourself you can go into a grocery store you can do anything that anyone else could do without someone else doing it for you so for example i've done.
00:37:04
Speaker
an FKT on the Penhodi Trail, which is a 350 mile trail. The first time I attempted it, I did it self supported. And I mailed packages just like a through hiker, a through hiker would be considered a self supported adventure. So I mailed packages, I was planning to stop in stores, all of that fair game, anything anyone else could do, or have access to,
00:37:28
Speaker
You're good. The third version, which I think is super hardcore, is unsupported, which means that the only thing that you can take is you can get water out of a stream or I think a public fountain.
00:37:44
Speaker
Like a spigot which that's even if you're I don't that's been like a part that I don't fully understand but essentially you have to carry every single thing on your back that you're going to use for the For the event and the only thing you could do is if you cross the water stream, you could fill up your water. Hopefully you are Using a filtration system. That's a whole other story. But yeah, so unsupported is really hardcore and
00:38:13
Speaker
You can't have any outside help. You're not even supposed to have people like you shouldn't have anyone coming out and meeting you, even if it's moral support, because that's considered actual support. Um, yeah. So I, the FKTs are super fun. They're a great way to challenge yourself. There are some athletes that don't race at all. They just do FKTs and that is, um, enough for them. And then the fun thing about,
00:38:41
Speaker
FKTs is that they can start combining other sports, other adventures. So for example, there's FKTs on Mount Rainier. There's FKTs on Hood. There's FKTs in places that races can't go. And part of it is that requires a lot of skill to be able to do these FKTs. So you do have to be conscientious of the fact that there is not necessarily a safety backup for you if things go wrong, but it can also, especially as we have a lot of, um,
00:39:11
Speaker
multi-sport mountain athletes in this area can be really fun. For example, I've done an FKTM Mount Whitney where I ran from Lone Pine. So it was a road run, 12 miles. Picked up my mountaineering stuff and then soloed up the mountaineers route to the top of Whitney where I had to have an ice axe. I had pretty beefy micro spikes on. Definitely consequential. And then ran back down.
00:39:40
Speaker
put my road running shoes on and ran all the way back into town. So it's just really fun. You can mix and match what you love doing in the mountains. Yeah, that's a great explanation. I think that clears up even some questions I had. I guess I didn't know there was a third category. I only thought there was two. But I think that there is
00:40:06
Speaker
There was a huge boom in FKTs during COVID. Everything was getting crushed left and right. It was great to see. It was fun. People were getting outside and doing things. And I think there is...
00:40:19
Speaker
a lot of merit to go into places where we can't hold events with large amounts of people. And not because of any type of pandemic, but just because of the impact that we have in that space. Like the Grand Canyon, we're not going to get 1,000 people to run rim to rim to rim in an event with a starting line and a finish line and aid stations like you would see at a normal event. But to do it self-supported or even with some support
00:40:49
Speaker
is capable and still gives you some credit and the ability to go out there and do those things in spaces where we can't have those events. Absolutely. And one of the things that I see FKT is opening up a space and I'm hopeful
00:41:07
Speaker
Kind of the, not to be negative, but the downside of this explosion of trail running is we do see a number of people and we've seen it in really sad circumstances of people who take on these mountain
Mountain Safety & Skills
00:41:19
Speaker
events. And when you're in a race, you feel like there's the safety blanket around you. And so often people are not
00:41:27
Speaker
not procuring the mountain skills they need to do mountain trail races. And so if you're doing the Watts at Wasatch 100, even the hurt 100, you know, if you're doing hard rock, etc, all of these, these are high mountain
00:41:43
Speaker
sports with consequences, if a storm comes in, if a, uh, lighting happens, if snow, snow, huge variations in temperature, wildlife, et cetera. And so something I really hope to continue to emphasize in the space in this works in the FKT world. It works in the trail running world is that we should be good mountain safe athletes. When we are doing these races, we should not be relying on the racing teams.
00:42:13
Speaker
to save us to be our rescue anytime yes they're there as a framework and support but we should also have the survival skills to be able to manage ourselves in the mountains we see that we have a lot of races now having required gear oftentimes an emergency blanket and extra jacket extra calories
00:42:36
Speaker
And I think it's also on us as runners, as mountain athletes that we need to be procuring those skills as well. And I'm curious too, with your clients, how you manage that.
00:42:49
Speaker
That's a great question. I think the required list is starting to get more common at these starting lines. And rightfully so for those reasons that we need to be self-reliant out there on the trail. And of course, someone might help you out, but we can never expect that. I don't think that should be the expectation is that someone's going to bail you out. When I tap out and I say I'm done,
00:43:16
Speaker
I still have to get myself to a safe spot and get myself out. No one's going to fly in and pick me up and get me out. I think the other caveat is that
00:43:29
Speaker
we as a community need to know how to use those safety items as well. So not just packing them in the pack and never deploying your emergency bivvy, never figuring out if you can light your candle or not. Whatever your safety items are on the required list, I think we need to know how to use them and when to use them.
00:43:56
Speaker
before triggering an emergency alert system of search and rescue to come out in the middle of nowhere to come and get you. I think we have to take a lot of that responsibility on ourselves. And to go back to my athletes, I think I just explained that as well. I'm trying to get them to know what they have in their pack and how to use it properly. I think that's the general census of my theory on that.
00:44:25
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, same. I always say practice with your gear. Use what you're going to use for the race. Make sure you know how to use it. Absolutely. And I think one of the most common misconceptions, you probably see it all the time in Colorado, is that people think you hit a rescue button, you hit an SOS button, and someone just shows up. That is not how it works. It can be hours and hours. It can be an entire night.
00:44:52
Speaker
where you are cuz you are in a remote space there's a storm happening and these are people who are not some of them are sitting waiting for the call but most of them are not and it takes a long time. To get a search and rescue crew out to you so you have to be able to take care of yourself the amount of time i think i love the.
00:45:15
Speaker
advance what we've made in helping people in the backcountry, but I also think that it can sometimes be a crutch for people to think, well, I just press a button and in 30 minutes, I'll be picked up by a helicopter. And that is just not how it works. I would recommend that people actually look into how these services are deployed and the steps of, okay, what happens when that first call goes off? How does it then trigger everything to understand
00:45:43
Speaker
how long and how much of a process it is because it is pretty eye-opening.
00:45:49
Speaker
The other, along that same lines, I would say we have to think of it as a process. Like if you were to go to the emergency room, most of us have insurance and we get a huge deduction in our bill because we pay insurance and that's what insurance is for. And there's not a similar, I mean, you can get, you know, mountain insurance. But when I think of an athlete pushing the SOS button, I always,
00:46:19
Speaker
I always wanted them to envision what that is doing to somebody else's life. They're taking time out of their kid's softball game or baseball game to jump in that
00:46:31
Speaker
the ambulance to get to the trailhead, to put on the pack and the boots, to get a mapping system. You're deploying 10 people and changing their lives in order to come and rescue you. And there's definitely cases where you need to push the SOS button and you need to be rescued. But before you do that, just make sure that it's an actual emergency and that you can't self rescue yourself. I think that kind of just says it all. I mean, there's a huge consequences to all of it.
00:47:01
Speaker
Absolutely. And yeah, well, we've got down rival, but I think it's important. I've been on search and rescue team. My husband's been on the search and rescue team. He's done a lot more rescues than I have. But it is it is I mean, yeah, you are pulling people from their lives that you are. It's a big use of resources and that mistakes and accidents happen. And that's absolutely why it's there.
00:47:26
Speaker
but also having the skill set to rely on getting yourself out self extraction and all of that. You're bettering the community around you if you have the skill set. And again,
00:47:38
Speaker
you break your leg, if something like that happens, that is not your fault. Like rocks, rock slides happen, avalanches that you know, of course, not putting yourself in the position, but there are just accidents happen. So we're not saying don't ever use that or that it's your fault. If you need a call, we're just saying that the more that you can prepare yourself to have the right gear, have the right nutrition, have the right skill set, the more your outdoor community will thank you.
00:48:08
Speaker
Totally. So wow, well, we went down that
Trail Running Community & Camaraderie
00:48:12
Speaker
tangent. But let's go back to kind of the essence of trail running. And we talked about this a little bit. But to you, Brian, what brings you into the trail running community? What makes you want to go to the Moab 240 to help other people to really be centering your career around this?
00:48:33
Speaker
You know, I think we touched on it briefly already, but for me, the trail running community is completely welcoming and supportive.
00:48:42
Speaker
I think we don't see barriers. I really feel that way, that the trail running community doesn't see any barriers to entry. If you don't have the right gear on or if you don't look the part, no one's judging you. I feel like you belong there, you signed up, hopefully you've done all the work to get there, and we will help you as best as we can. And that's me saying that from
00:49:09
Speaker
to a starting line of 100 people and I might only be crewing you, Alyssa. So, you know, if I get to mile 10 and you're not there yet, but there's another runner that needs help, by all means, I'm going to help them out, give them some water, get them some food, try to fix their feet if they need some, you know, feet work done or whatever it might be to get them moving because we are fully supportive of each other. And it's different than other communities I've been in as far as like bicycle racing or triathlon.
00:49:38
Speaker
It's really welcoming in that regard. I don't think there's... I just think we just give and give and give as much as we can to the community and I've never looked back because of that. I think that's what I saw when I came in and that's why I'm still here.
00:49:58
Speaker
Totally. I mean, I saw it. I mentioned the whole thing of helping others, but at the second race I ever did, when I first moved to Hawaii, I was running along and the two guys I was running with, first of all, you get to know people so well when you spend, that's one of my favorite parts of racing is hooking up with someone, um, and just running hours with them and you just get to know them. Like they're your best friend. Cause how many times in our society do we have
00:50:28
Speaker
an uninterrupted space of time just to get to talk and know someone. And they started pulling out like gummy bears and all this stuff. And they were like, Hey, do you want some gummy bears need some food? Do you need anything just like so willing to offer me anything that they had like, you know, if I'd said, I'm really
00:50:48
Speaker
You need some extra shade they would have been like here take my shirt you don't make a hat out of it or something it is just that to me was so it's so clear what this community is that we're all there to help each other and within that race i didn't see it cuz i was.
00:51:03
Speaker
just not in on the course where they were. But two people completely halted their races to help someone who'd broken their leg in a fall. And it was just like, of course, that's what you do. And and they were all part of the the rescued process of helping this person who just had a really unfortunate fall. And I was like, oh, wow, I think I just learned some of the most fundamental aspects of this community just in that that second race that I'd ever done. And that, to me, just made it very clear
00:51:33
Speaker
How special the community is. Yeah, I found friendships along the trail either in training and or racing.
00:51:46
Speaker
in places I never thought I would. And you just say, hey, how's your day going to the participant next to you. And six hours later, you're waiting for them at the aid station. Like, oh, what are you leaving? Because I'm going to leave with you. We're going to keep talking or we're going to continue this friendship. And so sometimes you kind of halt your main plan by like, hey, I made a friend and I'm going to continue with this friend because we're having a great time and we're having fun. We're passing time. I think you also touched on this.
00:52:16
Speaker
when it's just you in the trail and you're moving, there's some aspect of moving that helps you become really social. But I also think that like we take away all the current barriers we have like this laptop that we are both sitting on talking to each other through and the social media and the phone, everything is in my pockets and I'm just one-on-one having an
00:52:40
Speaker
conversation with another human being and learning about them and they're listening to me, hopefully, and it works out. I've made more friends than not in trail running. I can't tell you that I don't have any friends or didn't have a great time on the trail meeting somebody new. We may not even see eye to eye on a lot of things in the world, but we're out there in the trail together sharing a moment and that's special.
Volunteering & Community Spirit
00:53:06
Speaker
It's way more special than you can believe.
00:53:10
Speaker
If you're listening to this and you're thinking of dabbling into the ultra running world or you're thinking that, oh, I'm a little bit on the fence still, I think a great idea would be is to find a local race, an ultra, and volunteer. The races are always looking for volunteers. Hand out water, give gummy bears.
00:53:33
Speaker
you'll be you'll you will see what we are talking about right here in this podcast what we're describing as this community you'll see it firsthand it'll inspire you and and you'll you'll you'll find your spot you'll you'll figure out if this is the space you want to begin or not pretty quickly and i guarantee you you'll enjoy it
00:53:52
Speaker
If I'm not running a race, I'm usually volunteering. I volunteered at Moab for like four days to run an aid station, which is a really long aid station, right? And I've paced people for, you know, miles, 60, 70 miles sometimes as a pacer, running with another runner that's in the event, and I'm just their support crew as a pacer. So I think any aspect of that is a really great way to
00:54:19
Speaker
figure out if this is the space you want to be in or not. And, um, and I bet you, you'll be surprised. I love that. And I love the point to bring up the volunteer because you get to see the inner workings, you get to understand how it is, and I guarantee you will leave inspired.
00:54:36
Speaker
And it's inspiring from the person who might be going after the course record to the person who is chasing cutoffs, like equally as such, because you see the sacrifice, you see the love, you see the determination, the hours that athlete has spent to get to that point. And it is incredible. I, um,
00:55:04
Speaker
I tease, I've been to Leadville a couple of times. You mentioned on the intro and every year I bring a crew there. The following time I go back, I wind up losing half that crew because they're so inspired. They wind up signing up for other events themselves or, or Leadville themselves. And, and so I always, you know, cycle in new crew. It's really not that big of a deal, but I always pretend to complain about it, but I would say, well, if you're going to pace me this year, you know, be ready to write it next year, because you're going to be pretty inspired. So, and I think that,
00:55:34
Speaker
really plays the point that I've done it myself where I'll say I never do that distance or I would never do that race because it's too hard. It's too long. It's too whatever. And then
00:55:48
Speaker
A couple years later, you're standing on that start line like, what the heck? I didn't think that was going to happen. And I now never when someone asked me, would you ever do that race? I know better than to say no. I always say, it's maybe not next year, but you never know. And I think, yeah, I think that's just such a beautiful part of it is that
00:56:12
Speaker
a lot of I think people come in with the limitations that they feel society has given them or that they feel they've written about themselves and ultra running I think just gives us I almost think of it. I've written about this where you get to pretend to be a superhero for a day for a couple days. And you put on your pack and it's your cape and gives you everything you need to survive and
00:56:41
Speaker
And it's just a glimpse of if we didn't believe that there were limitations on ourselves, what could we be? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And then you finished the race and you get to live in that moment for a little bit. And then you keep going on ultra sign up and keep finding. And then you fall into the natural progression, right?
Commitment & Sacrifices of Trail Runners
00:57:07
Speaker
I mean, yeah, you start to say, well,
00:57:10
Speaker
I've done the 50K, so maybe I could do a 50 mile. Maybe it doesn't seem that far. I think that's how I got my start at Moab. As a matter of fact, I thought Moab was brand new in 2017. And I thought, gosh, 240 miles just seems forever. And so I said, well, I'll just volunteer. So I paced a guy for 70 miles at the original one. And I was hooked. I was like, oh, I'll be back here.
00:57:38
Speaker
It cracks me up with Moab in particular, is that the pacing sections are ultras in themselves. I mean, insane ultras, not just like, I read a 50K, it's like, no, I read 70 miles. You're like, that's 30 miles less than 100 miles. That is nuts. Yeah, I needed a 100K belt buckle of some sort. Yes.
00:58:01
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, I had a piece or piece me 55 miles. It was like 55 miles, 12, 15, then like 27, 37, and like 40. And you're, that's probably not the right math. I'm telling you math pants. Um, it's wild. I'm like, you all almost ran, you all except one person
00:58:27
Speaker
ran over a marathon with me, which to have that basis of people who A, can do that, it's insane, and B, are willing to do that, nuts. And all of my paces after that, except my husband were like, when can I do Moab myself? He's still not convinced. You know, I think there's a little bit
00:58:55
Speaker
To say about the crowd at any ultra race or the participant list, I think if you were outside looking in, you may think that it's just these uber elite athletes that are all skinny and wiry and they're all gunning for the fastest time or they're gunning for each other. But really, when you get to the starting line,
00:59:17
Speaker
There are Alyssa's, one of them actually, one of those top tier athletes at the starting lines. They make up 5% of the starting line usually at most races. And the mid-pack that
00:59:34
Speaker
I'm going to get it done. It's going to take me a while, make up the majority of most ultra events. So I just want to clarify that so that participants listening, thinking about it,
00:59:48
Speaker
maybe thinking about trying to get into an ultra or just trying to conquer the distance but have that notion in their head that it's all uber fit athletes that are gunning for the win and they're duking it out at the fastest time ever. No, that's usually not the case at most of these races. I mean, Western states has a huge pro field and some of these races do have
01:00:12
Speaker
a fair amount of pro athletes at them. But when we say a fair amount, we're talking like 20 people. Yeah. And you're talking 200 to 300 participants. So if not five to 10% at a maximum is this ultra elite field. The rest of the participants are everyday jokes. They go to work, they strap on their shoes,
01:00:37
Speaker
You know, they got kids they're running the soccer practice. I'm I'm writing that mix. I'm running the dance practice. I'm running the guitar lessons I'm running to piano lessons And and we live life in running isn't all-encompassing and so I want to just clarify that That it's it's it's not what you envision it to be as being all elite athletes absolutely not but there is a
01:01:05
Speaker
like I find that more inspiring than when you know, it's like, I've been incredibly fortunate to be able to mold much of my life around being a competitive ultra runner. But when I see my clients when I see you like, when I see all these other athletes, and I you're also a very, very good runner. So I'm
01:01:28
Speaker
I don't love the elite kind of it's it because because the funny thing in ultras is that if you play your cards right and you are dealt a great day. It's like you never know who's going to be there at the top. So that's why I'm not a big fan of the whole like elite language and all of that.
01:01:45
Speaker
But it is so inspired to be like this person got up at 4am every single day to go run two hours, they ran at 10pm at night, they got on the treadmill, they did their weight training, you know, all of that to stay at the start line and do their best and put their best foot forward. And so that to me is more inspiring than anything else. And I think that's the beautiful thing about Ultras is that
01:02:16
Speaker
It really is something that tips people from being like you can't be halfway in. And that I think so much of our lives have such a short attention span that we just don't have to focus and you cannot short attention span and ultra. That's not how it works.
01:02:35
Speaker
And I think you can't fake it. Yeah, you can't fake
Race Schedules & Training Importance
01:02:38
Speaker
it. It's you know, no one's gonna give you no one in the moment of your darkest moment when it is the hardest is going to give you the fast way to do it the easy button that does not exist. It is in your head. It's in your mind. It's in the training you've done. That's what's going to get you through. Totally. Yeah.
01:03:00
Speaker
Oh, Brian, we could talk about this all day. It's been so fun. Wow. Yeah, well, I guess you're for those of you who are interested in signing up for the trail running group. This is just a small taste of what you will get in. In the lectures, I have a feeling I will promise to keep them to an hour. I have a feeling if you ever wanted to stay longer,
01:03:25
Speaker
The three of us could really just when Alexa comes on, talk nonstop because as you can tell, Brian and I are really passionate about the sport. We love the people. We love the community and we just want to help. We want to help people feel the way that we felt.
01:03:42
Speaker
That's totally right. I, um, I feel fortunate to be in this space and to be able to share. Um, and if you get me talking about running, it's hard to get me to stop. Same. I know when people start asking me questions about running, I'm like, are you ready? You really want, when I was a teacher, uh, I could always tell them my students really didn't want to learn anything. Cause they started asking me about running because they knew that I would not shut up about it. They learned that tactic really well.
01:04:14
Speaker
Awesome. Well, Brian, anything you, well, actually I'd love to ask, what are you up to this year for your racing schedule? Oh, a fun one. That's loaded. You know the answer. Um, but I will share that I do have four 100 milers on the calendar. Um, I will start in June with the Bighorn, um, Bighorn 100 in Wyoming. Um, in July, I'll be in URE for the URE 100.
01:04:41
Speaker
In August I'll be in Leadville for the Leadville 100 and in September I'll be in Steamboat Springs, Colorado for the Run Rabbit Run 100 miler. They're all about five weeks apart from each other. Roughly one might be six weeks apart. So it's going to be a huge challenge. My training currently I'm
01:05:02
Speaker
at the end of April right now is really coming along well. So I'm happy with where I'm at currently and just looking forward to a great summer being in the mountains. There are all Rocky Mountain events in the Rocky Mountains where I live in Colorado.
01:05:18
Speaker
Big Horn Mountains are in the range of the Rocky Mountains here. So I'm excited to just challenge myself and try to do this grand slam of Rocky Mountain events that I've created for myself. That's awesome. And you, Alyssa?
01:05:38
Speaker
Well, I just want to caveat one thing that Brian has been racing and running for a long time. He knows himself, he knows his body, he knows his training. And so yes, this is a challenge for him, but this is not out of the realm of possibility. And so I just want to make sure that we, those who are coming in the sport, you do not need to go run nor should you go run 500 or 400 milers within that time span.
01:06:03
Speaker
Trail running is something that takes a lot of progression. It takes a lot of skill. It takes a lot of years. Brian's super trained act like really well experienced runner. Um, so this is well within his capability, but just to make sure we emphasize you, everyone has their own journey and you never get to take back those distances. Um, so your first 50 K embrace it, love it. You don't have to go run a hundred miles right away. Um,
01:06:33
Speaker
I think I explained it to an athlete just the other day who was trying to load up their calendar with a little too much and I wanted to have that conversation with them.
01:06:47
Speaker
Yes, we should put events on our calendars, or we should have those dangly carrots out there that scare us, but are achievable and are within inside of our wheelhouse. And just like you explained, four 100s does seem absurd, but if you went back and looked at my history, it's well within my wheelhouse. It does scare me. It's good to have that good fear of the summer events that I planned for myself and challenged myself.
01:07:17
Speaker
But it's not, it's completely doable as well for the space I'm in right now. Absolutely. And you'll crush it. I'm excited to see it.
01:07:28
Speaker
Uh, for me, uh, it's been, uh, so I did the hurt 100 in January, which I keep having to tell myself was actually the start of my season, not a part of 2022. And I will be doing actually after this podcast or this podcast will come out, um,
01:07:51
Speaker
after I race. I will be doing some distance at Canyons. I'm sure when. Please don't follow this pattern. This is not usual. You should know what distance you're doing far in advance, but sometimes you just got to go with the flow. I'll say I'm at the fitness level to do something between the 100k to 100 mile distance. We'll see what the
01:08:10
Speaker
trail running ultra gods have in store for me. Um, then I will, I'm doing a fine turning 30 this year. We'll do a fun birthday adventure, 30 miles, 30 V points of rock climbing. And, uh, I'm thinking Murph maybe like that. I thought of that the other day, cause it's right around Memorial day. And I was like, that could be a really, I've always wanted to do it. And I was like, that could be a really awful way to end a very long day.
01:08:40
Speaker
So that's kind of my 30th birthday adventure. I'll be doing a race Val d'Arain. I say it wrong every time at UTMB.
01:08:52
Speaker
race over in the Pyrenees. And then I'll be doing the dragons backstage race in Wales, which is an unmarked six day gnarly race. I'm super excited for it. And a fun wrap up adventure of epic five in Hawaii, which is not a race, just a great excuse to go back to Hawaii where I lived for a few years. So yeah, it'll be fun. It's always exciting to follow you, Alyssa. You definitely
01:09:23
Speaker
put challenging events on your calendar and are thoughtful in your process to load that calendar properly with the training that you have and not overdo it.
Appreciation & Resources for Trail Runners
01:09:32
Speaker
Always exciting and I'm sure you'll crush it as well. Thanks, Brian. Yeah, and I will say it was a process because back
01:09:40
Speaker
in 2019. And before that, I just wanted to race race race and especially if race didn't go well, I thought I had to put another race on to make up for it to make myself feel better in a way. And the way to self soothe is not to sign up for more races, it is to give yourself the space to recover, assess and choose with a clear mind and open heart. That's what I'll say.
01:10:07
Speaker
Yeah. Don't make my mistakes. So we're here for it. Brian and I are to slowly try to, you'll make your own mistakes, but we're just going to try to keep holding you up as best we can.
01:10:21
Speaker
If we could teach you and you can learn from our mistakes, you'll be in a better spot and have learned it quicker than we may have. Exactly.
Closing & Call to Action
01:10:32
Speaker
Awesome. Well, Brian, thank you so much. This was such a fun conversation. I believe we have you on the schedule to come back for another one of the Trail Running Series podcasts. So that will be super fun. You'll be a part of the
01:10:45
Speaker
trail running group we have starting in June, and I am sure you'd be happy or you're open to working with one to one athletes. So if there's anyone out there looking for an amazing coach who has a lot of experience in a wide range of distances, Brian's your guy. Yeah, so thank you much for having me and I appreciate
01:11:11
Speaker
Always talking about trail riding. I always enjoy our conversations. Alyssa, we can talk for hours and have a great time doing it. So that's fun as well. So I'm looking forward to the group, the training groups. Really excited to jump in there and kind of share in a different group setting. But yeah, totally open to one on one coaching and uphillathlete.com has all the information on where to reach us at. Definitely.
01:11:39
Speaker
All right. Thank you for listening to the uphill athlete podcast. If you could rate, review, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, that really helps us to become more visible, to reach more mountain athletes. And as always, it's not just one, but a community. We are uphill athlete.