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Ep 8. Paul Evans, CEO Leadership Through Sport & Business: Youth unemployment and the risky business of changing the world
61 Plays4 years ago
“Our core purpose as charities isn’t to manage risk assessment and excel sheets ... our core purpose is to change the world, is to make change happen. That’s what we’re here for.”
Paul Evans is CEO of Leadership Through Sport & Business, a social mobility charity that prepares and supports bright young people from disadvantaged backgrounds into roles with major firms.
In this episode Paul delves into the situation for young people in Britain today and their ‘stolen future’, arising from the current crisis in youth unemployment. He highlights how the pandemic has laid bare social inequalities and how his organisation is creating meaningful opportunities for disadvantaged young people - ensuring that those at risk of under-employment find careers equal to their ambition and ability.
We talk about the habits of discipline as key to a successful and happy life. We also discuss attitudes to risk in the charity sector; and Paul reflects on how in an increasingly risky world, charities need to remain true to their core purpose: which isn’t just to manage risk, but to change the world.
Recorded October 2020, via Skype.
Guest Biography
Paul Evans joined Leadership Through Sport & Business in April 2020. Previously he was Managing Director at the award winning Street League and CEO of the national education charity, UFA (University of the First Age). Paul has a strong background in education, youth services, homelessness and mental health. He is passionate about social mobility, inclusion and creating real and lasting change in society. Paul is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts and full member of the Chartered Management Institute. He is also a Trustee at learning disability charity, REACH.
Links
www.leadershipthroughsport.org
Paul Evans is CEO of Leadership Through Sport & Business, a social mobility charity that prepares and supports bright young people from disadvantaged backgrounds into roles with major firms.
In this episode Paul delves into the situation for young people in Britain today and their ‘stolen future’, arising from the current crisis in youth unemployment. He highlights how the pandemic has laid bare social inequalities and how his organisation is creating meaningful opportunities for disadvantaged young people - ensuring that those at risk of under-employment find careers equal to their ambition and ability.
We talk about the habits of discipline as key to a successful and happy life. We also discuss attitudes to risk in the charity sector; and Paul reflects on how in an increasingly risky world, charities need to remain true to their core purpose: which isn’t just to manage risk, but to change the world.
Recorded October 2020, via Skype.
Guest Biography
Paul Evans joined Leadership Through Sport & Business in April 2020. Previously he was Managing Director at the award winning Street League and CEO of the national education charity, UFA (University of the First Age). Paul has a strong background in education, youth services, homelessness and mental health. He is passionate about social mobility, inclusion and creating real and lasting change in society. Paul is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts and full member of the Chartered Management Institute. He is also a Trustee at learning disability charity, REACH.
Links
www.leadershipthroughsport.org
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Transcript
Introduction to The Charity CEO Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders, with candid, meaningful conversations that really get beneath the surface of issues. This show aims to inspire, inform and deliver practical insights on the challenges facing charity leaders today, for the benefit of leaders across the sector and for those who care about the important work of charities.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm your host, Divya O'Connor, and each episode I will be interviewing a charity chief executive who will share with us their insights, knowledge and expert opinion on a particular topic or area of expertise.
Impact of Youth Unemployment and Social Inequalities
00:00:45
Speaker
My guest today is Paul Evans, CEO of Leadership Through Sport and Business, a social mobility charity. Paul delves into the situation for young people today and their stolen future arising from the current crisis in youth unemployment. He highlights how the pandemic has laid bare social inequalities and how his organization is creating meaningful opportunities for disadvantaged young people.
00:01:09
Speaker
We talk about the habits of discipline as key to a successful and happy life. And Paul reflects on how in an increasingly risky world, charities need to remain true to their core purpose, which isn't just to manage risk, but to change the world. I hope you enjoy the show.
Personal Insights and Professional Superpowers
00:01:30
Speaker
Hi, Paul. Welcome to the show. It's great to have you with us this morning. Hi there. Thank you very much for having me. Really looking forward to this.
00:01:37
Speaker
So I know that you are a listener of the podcast. And so you will know that we always start the show with an ice break around, which is just some lighthearted personal questions. And this is for our listeners to get to know you a little bit. So I have five questions for you. And if you're ready, we can kick off. Okay, let's go slightly nervous, but let's do it. Question one, as a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? Superman or a doctor?
00:02:05
Speaker
Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? The ability to build rapport with people. And what is the superpower you wish you had? The ability to build rapport with people better. Question four, tell us one thing that you learnt about yourself or a new skill that you learnt during lockdown.
00:02:30
Speaker
Well, I got back into playing piano more, so I kind of shelved that a little bit and it ended up being quite a place to meditate and de-stress and think things through and I used the piano to do that. Yes, I heard a little clip that you put up on social media and it's absolutely beautiful, so yeah, well done. Thank you. And our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world, Dead or Alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them?
00:02:59
Speaker
Wow. I would probably interview my great, great, great grandfather who came from Ireland as my mother's side did because I've got no idea who he is or what he did. So I'd like to know. I'd like to know who my family were about then.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, lovely. I love that. So moving on to our main discussion for today.
Mission of Leadership Through Sport and Business
00:03:24
Speaker
Paul, you are the CEO of the Social Mobility Charity, leadership through sport and business. And I'd like to start off by hearing a little bit about your organization. And I know that you actually started there as the new CEO during lockdown. So do also tell us how that transition was for you.
00:03:43
Speaker
Okay, well, thank you. I'll tell you a little bit about the organization first, then. So you're right, we are a social mobility charity. And our purpose really is to connect young people from disadvantaged backgrounds with meaningful careers with major firms. And these are young people who probably don't have social capital or the networks, or the ability to connect with the people and places that we can support them to connect with.
00:04:09
Speaker
It's a meaningful piece for us, we absolutely believe that in order to turn your life truly around you need meaningful employment that pays you fairly, that offers you prospects and that matches your talents.
00:04:20
Speaker
and aspirations and just wants and needs. So we are about connecting those young people to those opportunities and we've been going since 2012 started by and founded by a great guy called David Pynchon to recognize that need to connect bright young people with opportunities that can really enhance their lives and lead them to flourish. Now I joined the organization on April the 1st so you are quite right in lockdown
00:04:46
Speaker
which I now refer to as locked in, because that's how it's felt for many of us, hasn't it? Unusual time to join an organization. If you think about the way I'm meeting you, that's the way I've met most of my colleagues. And of course, that's quite difficult in many ways. We've lost the ability to connect physically and have many of the ways we would communicate and build relationships taken away from us. So we've had to do it differently. And it's been an interesting challenge for me.
00:05:13
Speaker
but made a lot easier because of the great way and lovely way that my colleagues have welcomed me into the organisation and put the time and effort into making me feel part of it and get up to speed with the organisation.
00:05:27
Speaker
Excellent. So if we go now to think about the current context of what's happening in the world, we are currently facing unprecedented levels of unemployment and in particular youth unemployment.
Challenges in Youth Employment During the Pandemic
00:05:40
Speaker
So recent research suggests that up to 1 million young people in the UK are facing significant barriers to finding work. And in fact, just this week, there was the BBC Panorama programme talking about Generation COVID, which highlighted that young people
00:05:56
Speaker
particularly those from deprived backgrounds have had their earnings and job prospects hit hardest by the pandemic. So can you tell us a little bit more about how leadership through sport and business helps these young people and what programs do you offer? Sure. Well, firstly, just to comment on the context, it's a dreadful situation for young people right now who feel like their future has been stolen. And in many ways, it has.
00:06:25
Speaker
And young people have been largely affected through industries that are closing down of which young people are overrepresented in. They have their whole education debacle around exam results. Covid hits. It's difficult for them already. And if you're a disadvantaged young person or a person from a disadvantaged background or community which is underserved, you were finding it hard before. And you're going to find it even harder now with this pandemic, which has laid bare also the inequalities that exist within our society.
00:06:55
Speaker
So it's a really difficult time. More young people than ever are claiming employment benefits. It's gone up 150 percent between March and September. So really difficult. And of course, with that comes the scarring effects, whether that through wage scarring, that if you're not working or employed early on in your career, you can struggle to get back on the career ladder later on. You earn less later on. That affects disadvantaged people more than others.
00:07:22
Speaker
Of course, the health consequences of long term unemployment, your mental health suffers, your physical health suffers. So all of these scarring effects are long term consequences.
Preparing Youth for the Workforce: LTSB's Approach
00:07:34
Speaker
So what do we do then? So we are the bridge between where young people are now and formal apprenticeship opportunities offered by businesses.
00:07:43
Speaker
So if a business thinks we want to become more diverse, more inclusive, more representative of the communities they serve, we need to reach a different type of young person, then that's where we come in. So through our pre-apprenticeship boot camps, our personal, social development and technical boot camps, we recruit, prepare and support young people through these several weeks of boot camps, so they're able to contribute to the organization from day one. But in that time,
00:08:11
Speaker
have engaged with mentors, external audiences, corporates. They've had corporate inside days, had qualifications, built their CV, and really increased their confidence, their skills and abilities so that they're ready for the world of work. And that preparation, that few weeks of preparation, before they move into a full-time apprenticeship, is like Goldust really, because they're ready to flourish and thrive. Now, along that bootcamp, we are also working with the employers
00:08:40
Speaker
to help them be ready to welcome in the young people into their organization. Because what we've found is it's not good enough to just place a young person into an opportunity. You have to help that organization adjust their working coaches, adjust their practice, adjust their recruitment practice.
00:08:57
Speaker
And I often use the line that if you're an organization that recruits a Mohammed and ask him to act like an Oliver, you might have an issue. If your way of building teams or team building is Friday night at the pub, you're probably excluding a large part of the workforce. And there are all these simple measures that, you know, people don't think about these things and how you might be excluding people or how you're not including them. So we help young people. We prepare them for work and then we prepare work for the young people.
00:09:27
Speaker
So I completely agree with you that the COVID pandemic has really laid bare social inequalities. And sort of the phrase that comes to mind that I've heard is that we are all in the same storm, but not everyone is in the same boat. That's a really great way of saying it. I didn't make that up.
00:09:47
Speaker
I don't know who said it, but yes, I do like it. I can't attribute it to a particular source, but I think it's a great way of summing up the situation. Paul, what more can the government be doing to help? And as a leader of an organization that serves young people, what would you like to see from government?
00:10:07
Speaker
I think it's worth recognizing the lengths the government has gone through to try and support here. We're seeing the kickstart scheme, the lifetime skills guarantee, apprenticeships. All of the usual things are there and increased investment has been made and to try to support young people. But when you dig beneath the surface of some of these programs and some of this support,
Government Actions for Youth Employment
00:10:27
Speaker
it is often short-term support. It's programs not meaningful employment.
00:10:33
Speaker
So it's job readiness programs and it's some incentives for businesses that, to be quite frank, the incentives offered to businesses aren't often enough. They think, you know, the work we have to go through to take on an apprentice and to train and to spend on that young person, the £1,500 we get is not that much of an incentive. So I think there are a couple of things that the government can do here. They can set about creating meaningful opportunities
00:11:01
Speaker
and an opportunity guarantee for young people that said, you know, if you're 16 to 24 and you're more than six months unemployed, we're going to guarantee you an opportunity that's living wage, you know, minimum. I think the government can devolve powers and funding to local councils to say, you know what's best in your communities, you know your communities. Here's some powers to actually fulfill your statutory responsibility and do what's needed in your communities. I think that's really important.
00:11:31
Speaker
I think there are ways that the government can support local businesses to encourage them to take on more employees. It might be things like waving national insurance contributions for the first year. It might be wage subsidies. They could be linked to sustainment rates. If you have a young person join your organization and they're still with you in 12 months, you might unlock some further funding.
00:11:54
Speaker
If they have a year to employment with you, you might unlock a further wage subsidy. So incentives to retain and train young people. So I think there are kind of two or three ways that I think the government can do more. So that's really interesting Paul. And in your experience, how open are businesses to engaging in this way?
00:12:14
Speaker
Well, I feel like we're very lucky here at LTSB. We've got a brilliant network of organizations that reached out to us during COVID and locked down and said, how can we help you? Whether that be funding or opportunities for young people, virtual work experience placements. I mean, quite a new concept really, but a number of our young people have gone into work experience placements virtually. So in and around us, we found organizations really willing to help. And I think that is the case, you know, businesses want to help.
00:12:44
Speaker
But there are often a number of barriers in their way, whether it be cost or length of time, or they can't access the groups of young people or groups of just general employees that they want to be able to access. And I think that's where meaningful cross-sector collaboration comes in. If you're struggling as a business to find difference, to encourage difference to join your organization, to adjust your practices, work with experts, work with charities. We do it every day.
00:13:11
Speaker
Let's link together and create something meaningful and offer opportunities together. Yes, so just delving a bit more on this point of meaningful engagement. What are your thoughts on how charities and charity leaders can meaningfully engage with young people? And what might that look like? Well, I think firstly, you've got to engage with each other as organisations. And one of the ways you do that is by leaving brands and leave an ego at the door. Right. These are the things that get in the way
00:13:41
Speaker
Most things in life by the way, especially ego. It's the biggest killer of relationships is that it gets in the way of business success So if you can drop your ego operate with low ego forget your brand whatever your call to think How do our organizations fit together in an ecosystem of what is benefiting young people? Let's start with that. What can we do together?
00:14:03
Speaker
part the funding conversation who needs what and where we're getting it because that's always going to be difficult we're always going to be in a race of funding we're always going to need it but right now if you can park some of that stuff and think how can we come together to best affect your people you got to start with that and then it's about how do we reach young people how do we communicate with them how do we engage them
00:14:23
Speaker
in creating the services that they want to need. How do we ensure that they're not just passive recipients of programs and services but rather they co-create them with us. So I think we need to set up structures and there are organizations that do this brilliantly by the way I think but there are some that don't.
00:14:40
Speaker
Probably one of those organizations is the government. I don't think they engage with young people enough in producing and co-producing and creating some of these schemes and ideas. And we need to, because do you know what? We learn so much every day at LTSB from young people. They are bright, they're innovative, they're thinking on their feet. There's no reason we shouldn't be engaging them to create our whole organizations, really. So we need to do more in that space.
00:15:08
Speaker
I love what you said there, Paul, about egos, and actually I was listening to a podcast called the Purposely podcast by Mark Longbottom, and he used a very similar phrase about leaving logos and egos at the door. There's definitely something in that.
00:15:24
Speaker
I'd like to come on now to talk about risk and specifically looking at the context of risk and failure. Because I think on the one hand, the pandemic has really served as a catalyst for change and many organizations have had to pivot and pivot fast. But change isn't without risk and inherent in every change is really a risk of failure. And traditionally, the charity sector has been seen to be quite risk averse.
00:15:51
Speaker
But Paul, do you think the pandemic has changed attitudes to risk both within the sector and crucially in how the public view us?
Charities, Risk Aversion, and Innovation
00:16:01
Speaker
Possibly, yes. And I'll step back and pick a couple of things of what you said there, because they're really important. So our charities seem to be risk averse. Probably, yes. But let's look at the reasons for that. We attract to scrutiny in this sector.
00:16:17
Speaker
that many sectors don't. We scrutinize over pay, over conditions, over how much of the pound reaches the front line, how we construct ourselves, how we work with trustees, all of these things. There's scrutiny over and over. And it's not that it shouldn't be there, but what it can do is stifle creativity, stifle innovation, stifle attempts to take risk. So we might be seen as risk averse, but we don't
00:16:46
Speaker
play by the same rules as the private sector, for example. If we take a risk and we fail, we don't write a book about it and say how we failed. If you're in the private sector and you go bankrupt, you can write a book and say, how my business went bankrupt three times. Look at me now, I'm on Dragon's Den. We're not awarded the same level.
00:17:06
Speaker
We're not gifted that option really to fail in the charity sector and in many ways that's public scrutiny and in many ways that's our own fault. We don't even give each other the grace to fail and try new things sometimes within the sector. So I think yes we're probably risk averse but we've needed to be and of course
00:17:25
Speaker
If we take risks and they do fail, we're often impacting on people's lives because that's why we're here. If everything was okay, there wouldn't be charities. So we do have to consider risk differently. Of course we do. But our core purpose as charities isn't to manage risk assessment Excel sheets. Our core purpose is to change the world, is to make change happen. That's what we're here for. It isn't just to manage risk. So
00:17:55
Speaker
We've got to also understand that with that, there's a recognition that if we try something, we might fail. But that kind of should be okay. Because as long as we're testing things, piloting things, putting risk plans around things, then it also should be okay that not everything's going to work. And even internally in an organisation, that's a hard enough conversation to have.
00:18:18
Speaker
It should we do that should we be spending that money should we be doing it and should we be doing it now never mind your trustees never mind the general public so but I think we should act like entrepreneurs we should act like change makers because that's why we're in this sector that's what we are responsible for creating change and we just do it in a measured way but let's be innovators why not.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yes. So when we were talking earlier, you said that change during this pandemic has been a bit like changing the wheels on a car while it's still moving, which I thought was a great way of describing things. So how have you personally coped with risk and change within your own organization? Well, this organization was set up to already work remotely. So we don't have offices. We don't spend our money on offices. We don't have that.
00:19:08
Speaker
and a level of cost. So the organisation was already used to working remotely, to linking in with each other remotely through Zoom in different ways. But what we did have to do is pivot to delivering our programmes to young people remotely and virtually. And we did that at some speed and all testament to a great team here at LTSB who
00:19:31
Speaker
who just who did that so with such willingness and optimism that we just kind of got on with it you know so a lot what we did here is we just kind of got on with it because what choice did we have we had to pivot we had to think about how we look after each other how we link in with each other a little bit more how do we still build relationships not stress each other out when we're about to launch a massive new contract as we did with netwest group that was launched in lockdown so i was joining
00:20:01
Speaker
So lots of things was happening, but what we had was a sense of purpose. You know, that's what I should have said all along. I'm rambling here. So purpose is what this is about. We had this idea that it's not about us. It's about young people. They are needing us to deliver these programs well, to help them find an opportunity in what was a disastrous climate for youth and employment. We knew what we needed to do. We worked back from a sense of that purpose.
00:20:27
Speaker
And here we are. And we're still finding a feat, you know, like many organisations, we're still getting bits wrong. We still need to train ourselves to do some things better. But we're working back from a sense of vision and purpose, which is to solve youth unemployment.
00:20:40
Speaker
I think all of us as charity leaders really need to focus on sort of the here and now, keeping mission and purpose, as you say, central to everything that we're doing and using that lens when making some tough decisions. I think that's how we as leaders and keep ourselves and our organizations on track.
00:21:00
Speaker
So in the context of talking about risk and failure, what advice do you have for charity leaders with respect to navigating this new virtual landscape that we all find ourselves in that you talked about there? I think you should reach out to your own networks. And that doesn't have to be internally or your trustees, reach out to other leaders, put yourself out there, talk honestly and authentically about what you might be struggling with.
00:21:27
Speaker
Ask people how are they doing it? How are they doing it well? What are we learning? And there are great groups out there that bring charity leaders together. So I think talk to your peer groups. I would also say ask your beneficiaries. How do they think you should go about this changing to a virtual remote world? Because we might just change to it. It doesn't mean they're benefiting from it. It doesn't mean they're not struggling in it.
00:21:51
Speaker
And just because they're beneficiaries, it doesn't mean they shouldn't have a say or a view in how you shape things moving forward. So ask the people you're there to serve, ask your networks, and then look inside the organization, including your boards, your staff. You know, how are we doing? What can we do more of? It's the classic plan new review kind of circle, isn't it? You know, you just must always be looking to learn and again, accepting
00:22:17
Speaker
that you are not going to get it all right. But nobody wakes up on Monday thinking, how can I make my job harder and annoy everybody and get it wrong? You don't do that. You wake up and you think, how can we be amazing? Recognizing that by Friday, you've probably made seven mistakes, but it doesn't matter if you've done 15 brilliant things. So give yourself a sense of kind of space with it. Are we too hard on yourself? And because we're all finding our way through this, because we haven't done it before. And I'll just say something.
00:22:47
Speaker
You see people popping up with these courses and training courses leading through these pandemics, consulting through a pandemic. And I think I don't know where these courses are coming from. None of us have done it. You know, we're doing it on the move. So let's not spend a thousand pounds on a course telling me how to lead through a pandemic. Let's just do it.
00:23:05
Speaker
So Paul, we've talked a lot about sort of risk and failure, but hopefully it's not all doom and gloom. What positives would you take from this crisis? Tell us about some of the inspirational and positive things that you've come across.
Virtual World Connectivity and Relationship Building
00:23:18
Speaker
Okay. There are many. So let's stop. Well, let's start with what we're doing here. Okay. We haven't connected before.
00:23:24
Speaker
So this virtual world has given us access to people that probably would have taken ages to pin people down physically to set up meetings. Right now we're zooming all the time and yes there is a zoom fatigue but let's look at the pluses here. We're able to talk to people, rapidly connect with people, people want to. So I think that has been brilliant, that has been a massive plus. I think we've been able to build relationships with our stakeholders and funders
00:23:51
Speaker
more closely more intimately or authentically in this way because we're not just restricted to this if i can find you for an hour in london and you can fit me in vice versa then we'll do it you know we have all this opportunity i think it's been a real level you know from a staff and a hierarchical point of view we are inviting each other into our homes
00:24:14
Speaker
Entire environments are looking at yours. You're looking at mine here. You know when on earth or that would happen So you'll get a sense of who I am unlike wise and that's happening with our staff teams So we're having these conversations and there's a dog in the background knocking over of ours and there's someone's child that wants to join in on zoom probably has a lots of good stuff to say by the way, but it's happening and so
00:24:37
Speaker
All this talk over the years about bringing yourselves to work and work-life balance, this has forced us to think about it and it's forced us to see it. It's in front of us and we're recognising that we are human beings and that the structure, the hierarchical structure is so much more less important than actually building this relationship, checking in with each other. So it's been a leveller, it's been a humaniser from a stakeholder point of view, from a staff point of view, I would say.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's also helping people think about what they want from life differently, how they spend their time. Would I go back to the same career? Am I happy with that commute for three hours a day? I have a different sense of what purpose means to me, what wellbeing means for me. I'm in touch with the kids more, you know, you're in touch with your partner more, you probably have a chance to tend to some hobbies. I don't know, if you look, you know, you look online and you see this coming through,
00:25:33
Speaker
various documentaries in the news and things like that, people are finding themselves again in different ways. Yes, it's been tough, but people are finding themselves and planning differently, thinking differently, and that has to be a plus.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yes, I agree with you. I'm not a fan of a long commute. And so I certainly prefer sort of some virtual engagements. And sometimes, as you say, it's easier to link up diaries and have meetings virtually. But it was interesting, one of my previous guests on this podcast was saying, actually, she really missed commuting. This is Charlotte Hill. And one of the things that it gave her when she was traveling in between meetings was actually time to reflect
00:26:14
Speaker
and prepare and sort of get out of one mindset and get into another. Have you found that's affected your thinking abilities or abilities to kind of switch off and switch on again? Absolutely. I think we've all gone into this new way of working in a way that has blurred the boundaries. So yes to the plus sides of not the commute, depending how you look at it and your perspective on that, but there is also a blurring. You can just
00:26:41
Speaker
open your laptop straight away and you're at work and you're doing it from your wake up in bed and you're not even out your dressing gown and your laptop's on as long as you've had your first coffee. So I was only saying the other day actually to my partner, Rihanna, I was saying, I don't feel like I know what's going on in the news. So my commute would be Radio 4 would be on, right, for an hour or whatever, Radio 4. If it's on the train, I'm reading the news or subscribed to The Economist and there are other good newspapers out there, by the way.
00:27:09
Speaker
But that's kind of gone because it's kind of wake up, open the laptop and you're onto it. So what I'm thinking here is it's about discipline. Things have changed. So you need to enforce a new sense of discipline in your life. And if it's about reading, because you need to read your material, if it's the news, or if it's space to reflect and think, if it's programming in your calendar, reading time or thinking time,
00:27:37
Speaker
then it's all right. I think you've got to role model it so that other people know it's all right. I was speaking to a colleague of mine the other day who was saying, there's so much reading material here, all the new policy stuff going out in youth employment, in the youth sector, in all the sectors we're involved with. When do we get time to read it? Let's put it in our calendar. It's discipline and discipline equals freedom. If you want financial freedom, you've got to be disciplined.
00:28:02
Speaker
If you want health and fitness freedom, you've got to be disciplined. If you want time to read the news and do what you need to do, you've got to be disciplined. It all comes down to that. Yes, success habits are critical and having a morning ritual and certainly habituating various tasks and things that are important to us. As you say, that's what leads to ultimately success and happiness. Yeah. So Paul, I'd like for you now to reflect a bit more on
00:28:32
Speaker
your role as CEO of leadership through sport and business. What is the best thing of leading that organization and what do you think as a sector we can learn from young people? I think the best thing is that you are charged with the responsibility of creating meaningful impact and you are often the kind of vocal piece for that.
00:28:56
Speaker
You don't call cats like this i get the privilege of talking about our organization representing the organization but if we weren't creating any impact if i didn't have such a great team if there wasn't such a good founder to begin with that set this thing up in a previously over goes to here.
00:29:13
Speaker
then I wouldn't have anything to talk about. It'd just be me and I'm not that interesting. So the privilege of my role is being able to do that and to set the tone, to set the pace, to set the direction of where we're heading. And of course I do that with others because it's my style, but ultimately it forced me to set that direction. And that's a real privilege. And I've just forgot the other bit you asked me. Sorry.
00:29:36
Speaker
Well, it was more specifically around what we as leaders can learn from young people. And I completely agree with you, by the way, being a charity chief exec is an absolute privilege and working for our beneficiary service users and really having that purpose and mission, which, I mean, I personally derive so much inspiration and energy from, and I'm sure, you know, there's lots that we can learn from young people. And I just wanted to crystallize your thoughts on that.
00:30:04
Speaker
Absolutely. So, when I say we are learning from young people every day, I absolutely mean it. The young people we're working with, I have a six-year-old stepdaughter, by the way, and I'm learning from her all the time. What I don't know about Minecraft, I forgot more than what most people know on that now. What we are seeing as young people being resilient, right, being optimistic, that they have just shifted. We make more of a fuss of this pivoting than young people have. They just
00:30:30
Speaker
do it. The young people in our programs, they say, yeah, long as I've got the kit, you know, in a bit of space, I'll join the program. They just, because they're already engaged in on screen and digital and tech, it's not a new, not such a new thing for them. Now, of course, we're working with some young people that don't have much space, probably can't afford the kit. You know, they're probably caregivers, their older siblings are living in cramped households. So I look at these young people and I think you're turned up today for Tutor Group.
00:31:00
Speaker
I've led a couple of Tuesday groups and it's brilliant. Oh, you're on the program today. And I know you've had to battle to get space on that kitchen table away from the rest of the family. But you haven't labored it. You're just getting on and doing it. When you're having a bit of a bad time yourself, I think we're working with hundreds of young people that are just getting on. And they must be reading all this news like us.
00:31:24
Speaker
The reports of increased loneliness amongst young people, that fear of a stolen future, that lower aspiration now or thoughts of never going to get back on the career ladder, and yet you meet them and you wouldn't know it. It gives you perspective on what you're dealing with and you think, my goodness, if the future of our world is in their hands, we're going to be all right, because those qualities and attributes, if they've got them now in the most difficult of times,
00:31:53
Speaker
we're absolutely going to be fine and that's why our responsibility is to support them to get there. We need to get them further, we need to get them the opportunities because they are the future and it always sounds a cliche but they really are.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yes, it's interesting. It's almost like we as adults are the ones that have nostalgia for how things were and have a difficult time sometimes letting go. Whereas kids don't necessarily remember or care much about how it was before. They only look at what it is, how things are right now and how things can be better in the future and where to go from there. So yeah, there's lots we can learn from young people in terms of focusing on the future. But they will remember
00:32:35
Speaker
how we treated them, what we did for them.
Highlighting Youth Positivity and Support
00:32:39
Speaker
You're quite right. We think about how things were, and they think about how things are, but there'll come a time when they will think about how things were, and then they will think about what support was there for them, how were we treated, how were we talked about. And that's why we don't want to talk about young people so much as victims all the time, although we should highlight the difficulties that they're facing, because we need to do something about it. We also need to equally highlight
00:33:05
Speaker
the great stuff they are doing, you know, the optimism they're coming out with, that resilience they're showing, the way they are being kind to others. Even virtually, we see that all the time in our programs. They're kind to each other, looking to help each other with bits they're struggling with. It's amazing. So we've got to make sure we talk about that too. Yes. So Paul, coming back to think of your own leadership journey now, what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a chief executive?
00:33:35
Speaker
Oh, wow. I knew there's going to be one of these questions that I'm going to think I should have read a book or something. So I've got something more intelligent to say. Just talk from the heart. Yeah. Okay. What I would say is it's it. Listen, you will go in. If you're a bit like me and you like reading and people, other people check your things to read.
00:33:56
Speaker
You kind of, you can get a little bit paralysis by analysis, right? So you read these first hundred day books and you should do this as CEO and how to build your team and all these things. And reading is important. There are nuggets of gold and all of these things, but there's something about trusting yourself. You're there for a reason, right? So you've been brought in for a reason, whether that be track record, which more likely it is, and then you're demonstrating your capabilities through interview, et cetera. You're there for a reason.
00:34:23
Speaker
What you don't want to do is turn up on day one saying, I've done all this before and there's the books I've read and I know what to do because you absolutely don't because you haven't spoke to anybody. So what you think you need to do is going to be very different from what you find out you need to do week one, month one, month three even. So you have a very small window by the way before your inbox is full and you are in it.
00:34:48
Speaker
you are accountable for it so on day one as much time as you dare and can take listen take the space don't get into stuff too quickly that's what i would say now covered for me by the way i'm saying all this lockdown contracted the time that i feel i was able to take some of that space and learning but
00:35:10
Speaker
I'm fortunate that I had a great previous CEO who stayed on actually in a different role that gave me lots of talking time, you know, same with the chairman, same with my staff, lots of opportunity to talk and discuss and virtual situation helped that. But anyway, listen, take space. Don't think you know what to do on day one, because it won't. What you think it is won't be the same as week three and month three.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yes, and this is coming back to your earlier point about ego and really not coming in with a mindset of, oh, I know what I'm talking about, but really being open and listening to hearing what others have to say and acknowledging the expertise and the assets that exist within the organization, I think is absolutely key. Yeah.
00:35:55
Speaker
So Paul, we've come now to the end of our conversation. So do you have any final thoughts or reflections? What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? I guess it does come back to that thing for me of trusting yourself. There's so much to be said for gut instinct, which is a combination of experience and learning anyway. It's not this kind of thing that floats around that sounds soft, you know, trusting your gut.
00:36:24
Speaker
It's massively important to trust yourself, trust your track record, trust who you are and that voice inside of you, you know, whatever it is for you, you've got to trust. And if you start from that kind of confidence.
Leadership: Trusting Oneself and Focusing on Vision
00:36:40
Speaker
then everything else is just stuff. Everything else is just things to learn, people to talk to, things to get on with. And none of it's that complicated when you're running organisations. You want to stay solvent and you want to deliver on your vision and mission. That's it. It's no more complicated than that and have a great team around you. But trusting yourself, that's what I boil it down to. I love that. Paul, it has been a delight to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. It's been lovely to talk to you.
00:37:10
Speaker
And that's it folks, the end of season one of the Charity CEO podcast. We are going to take a break over the Christmas period and we'll be back with more guests and interviews early in the new year, starting off with the fabulous Julie Bentley, who has recently taken the helm as CEO of Samaritans. Until then, to all of our listeners out there, stay safe and happy holidays. I'm Divya O'Connor, and it's been a pleasure to bring you the Charity CEO podcast.
00:37:38
Speaker
Meanwhile, if you enjoyed the show, please click the subscribe button on your podcast app and consider leaving us a five-star review. It will only take a few seconds and reviews really help make a difference to increase the visibility of the podcast and help spread the word. Visit the charityceo.com website for full show details and to submit questions for future guests. Thank you for listening.