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The Final Dissection - Dissecting Worm In Review
317 Plays1 month ago
This story isn’t intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass.
Complete list of potential triggers: here
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Dissecting Worm: The sister podcast to Brockton Bay Book Club where our hosts Jacob and Allan discuss adapting Worm for television.
Episode Description: It's the final episode of Dissecting Worm! Allan and Jacob present their television adaptation of Worm. The rest of the Brockton Bay Book Club join as the dissecting team go over the major changes they made to Worm.
Get in contact with us @brocktonbaybc
A big thank you from all of us here at The Brockton Bay Book Club for all the love and support! We had a great time creating this hypothetical Worm television story and are so grateful for those who joined us!
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Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast:
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Timestamps: (00:00) - Introduction
(01:10) - Dissecting Begins
Recommended
Transcript
Launch of Merchandise
00:00:00
Speaker
Exciting announcement. We now have Brockton Bay Book Club merch. We've got our Brockton Bay Book Club t-shirt as well as the Brockton Bay's sweatshirt.
00:00:10
Speaker
They look sweet. Hannah designed them and they're amazing. so if you're interested in that, link will be in the description and shout out to Hannah for all the sweet designs.
00:00:21
Speaker
Thanks so much for your guys' support and go check it out.
Introduction to Worm
00:00:25
Speaker
Worm is a web serial by JC McRae, also known as Wildbow. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans.wordpress.com or donate to Wildbow's Patreon at patreon.com slash wildbow.
00:00:39
Speaker
This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
Reflecting on Five Seasons
00:01:34
Speaker
Take that, you worms. Hey. back for the last time. Revisiting Worm. Let's go.
00:01:46
Speaker
Let's go. We are here for the final episode of Dissecting Worms. at least in terms of Worm proper, ah the story.
00:01:59
Speaker
We're going to look back over our full five-season show that we have constructed or outlined or framed or whiteboarded or conceptualized. That's about as far as we've come. We're going to look over each season, review some of the major changes we've made, major things we've left the same, and talk about it.
00:02:23
Speaker
with our, with our whole crew here. We got the whole gang. Got, you got Nick and Hannah joining from the book club. You can all see our lovely faces for this one.
00:02:37
Speaker
Weird, huh? Weird. Like, who are people? It is bit weird.
00:02:42
Speaker
Let's, let's get some initial thoughts, mostly from Alan and Michael, who wants to chime in as well, I'm sure. Um, would we We did it.
00:02:55
Speaker
We did all 30 arcs and the epilogues. We, ah beginning to end, put it all together, outlined it all. How do you think we did? how How do we think we did?
00:03:10
Speaker
i think we did well. Yeah. I think in retrospect, I think we batted probably 75-25.
Adapting Challenges and Respect for Scriptwriters
00:03:22
Speaker
For draft, it was good.
00:03:25
Speaker
I think we covered most of our discrepancies in next like season or at least the next two seasons going back over this. There's a lot of like, okay, okay, okay, back up. We need to fix this.
00:03:44
Speaker
And it smooths a lot of stuff out.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was really interesting. i mean, having read the series already and getting to kind of go back through it and reread it and put it together, it was interesting how much I remembered that I definitely wanted to keep unchanged and then how much that I had kind of forgotten about so that as we made the little tweaks and changes...
00:04:12
Speaker
and then read more. It was like, well, okay, we've got to think about that. Got to go back and work that again. There's lot of little things like that that was kind of kind of interesting. yeah I've said it before.
00:04:27
Speaker
I'll say it again. Doing little fun projects like this is such a great way of like... gaining respect for professional script writers.
00:04:38
Speaker
And and it after like obviously, trying to pull five seasons out of this is would be a daunting task for anybody. and But like the amount of work that you have to put into this, we met like once every two weeks to cover a few chapters at a time.
00:04:55
Speaker
And it was exhausting. just like To think like, like this, what what we did over the course of the last year-ish is like what a writing team would have knocked out in a day, you know? Like, first day, get in the room, here's the whiteboard, let's outline it.
00:05:14
Speaker
You know maybe a week if we're being generous. It's just, it's ridiculous to me what the professionals are capable of. Mm-hmm. It's true.
Hope for a Screen Adaptation
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm even impressed with you guys for having just stuck with this, gone through everything and really trying to think through everything. I've always enjoyed our recap episodes. I think they're fun. so ah I enjoy them as long as I don't get mad.
00:05:38
Speaker
You guys make me mad. like I'm not enjoying this anymore. yeah I Nick. You guys have really done really well. It's exciting to think about this becoming something.
00:05:51
Speaker
like i know that this is just a fun little passion project, but like We love this book. And it would be lovely to see it on the screen one day. That would be really fun. Yeah. Be cool. For sure.
00:06:03
Speaker
Still waiting. Holding out hope. Wild Bo. Wild Bo. Putting our faith in you. Never know. Yeah. But until then, we'll entertain this fun little what if.
Season 1 Adaptation and Character Focus
00:06:19
Speaker
So let's ah want to dive in. Yeah. Ellie, want to kick us off? Yeah. So for season one, um major POV would be Taylor and a lot of our cold open and close our interview interludes.
00:06:36
Speaker
um
00:06:38
Speaker
ah The arc would focus on becoming the villain. um So a couple of major points that we changed ah Taylor and Danny talk more.
00:06:51
Speaker
um I think we mirror what is going on in her villain life. what's going on at home for a lot of this arc. um Piggott is shown to have a deputy director, Thomas Calvert, ah off right off the bat. um Lisa and Faultline ah fight Bakkita together um while the other teams fight Oney, Lee, and Long.
00:07:15
Speaker
So a separate fight that happens at the same time, but um we have Faultline and Lisa And that was an idea brought to us from some Redditors.
00:07:27
Speaker
I think it's a really fun one because we wanted to have that Bakuda fight, but yeah you know there wasn't really a good place for it. In this case, you'd have like Lisa disarming a bomb while having playful banter with her nemesis, Faultline.
00:07:43
Speaker
um ah Lisa taking credit for leaking the information about Empire 88 and um sort of just passively being the mastermind behind a lot of this.
00:07:57
Speaker
ah Lung taking the lead on the Leviathan fight um as an alternate point of view. um and and's not just Taylor the entire time.
00:08:09
Speaker
We get a little bit of background on him. Lisa recruiting Taylor at the very end, only to reveal finally who their employer, the secret employer was.
00:08:23
Speaker
Um, and then Lisa during the season would also be spouting off percentages of how things would work. Um, and Dinah would only be shown to be kidnapped by the travelers, uh, during the like bank heist scene, like as a closer or something like that.
00:08:45
Speaker
Um, and yeah and it never explained why we cut to that, like why she got kidnapped. You'd have stuff in the background, maybe like on newspapers. But um after that, Lisa would start talking, you know, in percentages of things working.
00:09:01
Speaker
Cool. So those are those are like all the big changes you guys made,
Key Scenes and Character Motivations
00:09:05
Speaker
right? Those are the big big changes. Yeah, okay. Exactly. i remember you guys... I'm so sorry, Nick. No, please i' go ahead. No, no, you first.
00:09:14
Speaker
I was going to say, I think and initially you guys had not had like taken out the Baguido fight altogether. And I remember being very upset about that. I remember that being my first big excuse me.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I loved that fight. That fight's great. So i'm i I didn't remember you guys... I mean, if you did, as we know, Hannah has terrible memory. ah But like, I didn't remember you guys having put that back in with Faultline. There'll a decent amount of stuff that you haven't heard before because we've been changing as we go. Excellent. I love that. That's very fun. Okay, cool. I'm glad you kept that in and and just kind of changed the perspective a little bit because I i love the Tattletail Faultline.
00:10:00
Speaker
thing i think that's very funny and feel like the book could harp on it a little bit more so the idea of having that i'm very content uh i think i'm just off the top of my head this sounds like a sleepy stapler thing so i'm going to shout out to reddit user sleepy stapler because that's not directly them they also had a bunch of really good insights into extra stuff alternate takes um big shout out to them yeah for sure That's cool. um i The more I've thought about it too, the more I think I do like ah waiting for Taylor to be officially recruited at the end after the Leviathan fight.
00:10:37
Speaker
um I think that narratively having having that ah having that be kind of her big motivation of like, look, I'm so close to finding out who employs the Undersiders.
00:10:49
Speaker
Just give me a chance, Arms Master. I can be a good guy. I swear I'm doing the right thing. um to that being like a question of is she genuinely joining them or is she still faking it?
Narrative Impact and Cliffhangers
00:11:02
Speaker
I think that's kind of a cool way to leave that lingering um at the end of a season. And then meeting Coil at the end too would be good as a good like, ah okay, so this is the boss.
00:11:12
Speaker
But you don't get to really meet him until season two, which I think is a nice nice change. Yeah, that's the idea. A retroactive thought on that is at the end you know, we talked about, it's literally like the last scene, you know, they're meeting in the grave or in the memorial.
00:11:31
Speaker
She's like, so, you know, you in and Taylor's like, I don't know. And then she, you know, cuts to her walking in the distance. Lisa turns around, whips out the cell phone and just goes, she's in And then a person hangs up at a desk in a dark layer and it's coil, you know, steepled fingers behind the desk pulls out, cut the end.
00:11:52
Speaker
Cool. I like it. What if we didn't do Coil? What if we just straight up did Thomas Calvert? And just made the reveal at the end of the season?
00:12:04
Speaker
Because here's... Well, we have met Coil is the question. ah we met We meet him briefly at the the gathering of the villains. Yeah. It'll feel like Lisa works for the good guys. so So therein lies why you would do it.
00:12:24
Speaker
that Lisa, who we've assumed is, ah you know, is a masterminding. A lot of this turns out she's working for somebody. She's working for the PRT.
00:12:35
Speaker
Well, this is all speculation because you don't know what's going on. Right. you so She's working for the PRT guy, but that's not the head person. Like that's the second in command.
00:12:46
Speaker
Hmm. So like, is it a, like, you clearly know that he's maybe double dirty. Which means also is like, is she playing double dirty? Is this like a like a thing where she's because she's... Because Taylor, they've also given Taylor a lot of shit for being a snitch.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. but You know? i think it would depend on how you portray Coil and Calvert in season two. So maybe you should give us the recap for season two and then I'll tell you what I think.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. but yeah i think Keep that in mind that if we did do that, that big point would be to like we've We've given Taylor a lot of contention, and that was a big thing is we've we've also pushed the Dyna stuff back.
00:13:30
Speaker
yeah um Yeah. I think though, he's one I think my my issue with that in one regard is simply that with this change, one of Taylor's big things has been she still wants to be a good guy and the assumption is that the PRT are the good guys.
00:13:47
Speaker
So obviously this would throw some doubt on that. But i I wonder if, because then the revelation would be Thomas Calvert is Coyle, not Coyle is Thomas Calvert.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah. So I almost wonder, though, if that would lessen the impact of that revelation. I think that would be kind of the tricky thing to balance. Because then if when you find out that Coil's leading things, it's like, okay, another villain's in charge, which is cool.
00:14:13
Speaker
But then you find out he's part of the PRT. He's been manipulating the PRT the whole time, and it makes you realize, oh... maybe the good guys aren't good guys after all. It's kind of another hit on that theme, which I think Armsmaster does a good job of too, just because he's an asshole.
00:14:27
Speaker
But ah I think having that revelation as well and flipping it, I don't know. i don't know. I feel like it would have to take a bigger rewrite for season two, I guess, to flip it that way.
Season 2 Plans and Character Arcs
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. i think Only because they they meet with Coyle so many times. And so it would be like switching the meeting to being with Thomas Calvert, but then it adds in this like I don't know. I feel like... like if the audience already knows something, like it seems weird are to like have us know for so long and Taylor not know that Coyle is Calvert.
00:15:00
Speaker
It's like like we know going in into season two, like, oh, Coyle and Calvert are the same person. And Taylor's interacting with them with Coyle. And it's like, we're getting all this cool stuff. It's like... like there like This feels weird that we... I don't know. i like the idea. I think that just builds tension.
00:15:18
Speaker
if you were going to do it, ah you know, it's the difference between, oh this is a very normal, uh, you know, we'll, we'll do a monster scene. You have a story because you, where, um, there is a character and ultimately they're revealed to be, ah you know, a serial killer, um, at the end when they start killing people or you reveal that they are a serial killer immediately.
00:15:48
Speaker
And every scene with them has the possibility for them to kill your main character. were like The tension is there. are they you know As the main character discovers that they don't let that other person know, like you build the tension through you knowing and feeling the danger for your character, even though they might not realize that they're in danger.
00:16:12
Speaker
um I think the potential there is that you raise the tension on ah you know your viewing end of like every time you see Thomas Calvert, he's innocuous, but your eyes are like glued on him in a scene because you're like, what are what is he up to?
00:16:32
Speaker
like Because you don't know what he's up to, even though you know he's up to something and it feels sinister because you know this how we portrayed him. Like you don't know.
00:16:43
Speaker
um And also i think you could ah major rewrites. I think you could really bring into question whether or not ah written well, whether or not Taylor is still in on a sting operation with the PRT with Lisa.
00:17:01
Speaker
Like the idea that like, Oh, they're like Lisa was also in on the whole thing. thing. like They took down Empire 88. That wasn't a random thing. That was the PRT playing dirty through villains.
00:17:19
Speaker
um I feel like the only issue is I foresee this unnecessarily complicating things. Yep. i one think And i think that that I think that's the risk you run. I think the idea is interesting.
00:17:33
Speaker
I think the the risk you run is that And again, I know you've rewritten. It's already complicated? Yeah, it's already bit complicated. Especially in a script where we tried to simplify everything. Yeah, I feel like this is adding an unnecessary layer for complication, especially given the fact that...
Complex Narratives and Character Dynamics
00:17:51
Speaker
Mostly just especially given the fact that they meet so much with Coil, at least in Wyrm, where having that flip somehow, don't know, it seems really difficult to pull off without major rewrites.
00:18:06
Speaker
It also, selfishly, I did really like the way we initially did the reveal that Coyle and Calvert were the same person using the flashback of them yeah at fighting... What's his face?
00:18:18
Speaker
No Bog. No Bog, thank you. um Right. Which I think was fun. Yeah. so but But fun idea. like the idea there. Fun stuff to work with.
00:18:32
Speaker
ah The only other big change from season one that I know we got a lot of pushback on that we haven't adjusted was putting Lung into the Leviathan fight. yeah Admittedly, this was just a selfish change I wanted to do because it sounded cool.
00:18:47
Speaker
And I wanted Lung and Leviathan to fight. And we really have no reason to go and rewatch for any reason the um ah fight they had in Japan.
00:18:58
Speaker
ah just didn't fit into the story at all to show that for any reason. yeah um So here was a little way of getting them to fight. But got a lot of pushback on that one. So an eternal asterisk on that.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah. We've left it in for now. Yeah, I could definitely see it being a sort of that, you know not to jump ahead, but sort of like you guys do eventually with Gold Mourning.
00:19:24
Speaker
ah How like, oh, we beat Jack, but it's only episode three. Uh-oh. yeah know Kind of that with Lung where it's like, okay, cool. We caught Lung. he's like He's the main antagonist of season one, right?
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. Right? in so I could see it working either way. I i mean, I i like Lung as a character, so I wouldn't be mad to see more of him. um I guess the question would be like narratively if it would make sense for him to still be sent to the birdcage after helping with the Leviathan fight.
00:19:57
Speaker
That was the big ah pushback a lot of a lot of fans gave was that it it's sort of invalidated the the kind of code that they have where... um And if we did ah we did address that being like, well, it wasn't a decision. It was actually Arms Master himself who went ah went you know over over everyone's head and and did it.
00:20:22
Speaker
ah kind of behind their backs to let Lung out so that he could manipulate the scene to try to defeat Leviathan himself. um But again, that kind of goes back into that kind of overcomplicating yeah things a bit. so ah yeah i pleasure for Plus then it doesn't let doesn't let Arms Master have as much of a highlight in that fight as well, it feels like maybe.
00:20:44
Speaker
yeah know The narrative for here would be that ah while Taylor is running around ah helping, she is not she is observing fights most of the time. And if we use Lung as essentially our POV for the fighting, the action part, um we get that part.
00:21:03
Speaker
um And then ultimately where the two come together would be Taylor observing Arms Master betray Lung in order to fight Leviathan.
00:21:14
Speaker
Like, she's the witness to it. she She's the witness to it. And that way you also get a a singular explanation as to what Armsmaster did as opposed to he manipulated the entirety of the system. so Yeah, all the armbands. Villains kept getting in the way instead of heroes to, like, take the damage, and which is what he did. Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, I could kind of see it either way where... you you start hearing names dropping and they're names of people we recognize. Because like Kaiser falls in the fight, right?
00:21:51
Speaker
So you can be like, wait, yeah Kaiser just died? like And then you keep hearing names and Taylor's hit it hearing them like, oh wait, that's a villain. That's a villain. like You could have it either way, I think. It just depends on adding lung complicates it while also simplifying it.
00:22:06
Speaker
So it's kind of a, you know it could go either way, catch 22, so to speak. Yeah. I like having Lung in the fight. I think it's fun. yeah I like Lung. I like the idea of having him more in the season.
00:22:18
Speaker
i think The big change that we did with this one was we kept him alive at the end instead of letting him go out. Like, I wanted to kill him. Yeah. yeah well yeah i think you guys had made it ambiguous and then there was like one little teaser thing that was like, oh!
00:22:33
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Little twitch of the... What is it? The Michael Bay leg twitch? You're like... yeah What? It's a tail twitch. It's not... The tail isn't attached. The tail like... The tail like... Or like yeah flicks in the water.
00:22:50
Speaker
the The one other thing that i I do try to justify the inclusion with is just for Lung's character and his power specifically is really cool.
00:23:00
Speaker
And it sort of has this ah unknown limit or potential that's kind of reached by the very end. Like he goes toe-to-toe with Scion for a minute or two.
00:23:11
Speaker
which is crazy. And like to jump from street-level Thug to 1v1-ing Scion with no scaling in between is' kind of wild.
00:23:23
Speaker
So throwing in like a, well, he did take on Leviathan and kind of had the upper hand for a minute could help sort of just narratively bridge that yeah power scaling. But that's thinking like... Yeah. and law I think it's complicated either way and we're just choosing which kind of complicated.
00:23:40
Speaker
That's very true. oh And I like the long part. so yeah Other than that, we didn't really do much with season one. Season one, we kind of left. It's a solid storyline. line Yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
I mean, you look at all the threads online. It's uncomplicated. Yeah. Everyone, is anytime you see a thread that's like, if this was a show, you know, what would you do? Everyone agrees that like movie one or season one is beginning to Leviathan. Like it's just such a clean ah cut of arcs.
00:24:09
Speaker
So it works very well. It does indeed.
00:24:15
Speaker
On to season two. you me narrate that too? do you want to yeah so the POV for this would be Taylor Amy weld and fault line the arc focus would be protecting people I know that's odd compared to what we would normally say but you know last one like I says building up the villain this one is protecting territory protecting people you're with all that jazz
00:24:49
Speaker
Um, Hey birdie. Um, uh, so for this one, the big changes that we would follow the palanquin team or fault lines crew, uh, while they hunt down cauldron leads.
00:25:03
Speaker
Um, the slaughterhouse nine arriving in town is a murder mystery, um, that reveals that they are in town or who they are, ah that they are in town, uh,
00:25:17
Speaker
recruiting and then finding out who was being recruited, um, being your big mysteries in that, um, coil, of course, as we said, is finally revealed to be the employer from the last time, uh, the numbers that the undersiders and travelers started using in season one, ah they continue to kind of use in season two, like Lisa, stood you know, throws out those numbers.
00:25:43
Speaker
And it ultimately outs them at the meeting of the heroes and villains as the Dinah kidnappers. um Which yeah yeah is why they have to leave. um And that's also when Taylor learns that they did that. um She didn't know that before. She didn't know where those numbers came from.
00:26:04
Speaker
And Weld puts that together because he's such a smart boy. Detective Weld. I know, Detective Weld. Uh, Piggott is, ah more Amanda Waller than usual.
00:26:15
Speaker
Um, and, uh, Victoria does not get slimed, uh, and spiked like a beach ball in this arc.
00:26:27
Speaker
Um, but Amy does still have a bunch of, you know, feelings, uh, maybe does her little, um, brain tap thing um, Victoria and also learns who her dad is in this.
00:26:42
Speaker
Um, all while she's like being recruited and struggling with being a hero, kind of getting turned into a villain, uh, dealing with her place in the world.
00:26:53
Speaker
And then another big thing is we do not reveal yet that dragon is an AI that also gets pushed back. Right. To the audience. Yeah. Yeah. don't know that yet.
00:27:05
Speaker
yeah like you said When you said slimed and spiked like a beach ball, but
00:27:16
Speaker
do you mean when she gets put in the egg weird egg thing and then is also like turned into the monster? No, I mean how she got turned into that was that she gets headbutted and spiked like a beach ball and then because that breaks her force field,
00:27:33
Speaker
crawler spits acid all over her and that's what deforms her. Then she gets taken away and turned into the swan neck creature and the crystal. So it fascinating.
00:27:46
Speaker
Forgot about that. Yeah. As a point of clarification, she does get she gets spit on first and is like, this doesn't bother me. I'm immune. And then she gets headbutted. Okay. but So I did write it. Never question me.
00:27:59
Speaker
I put slimed and spiked like a beach ball. First thing you got to know, I'm never wrong. true i can't believe he would but I can't believe the viewers would ever question me. The viewers were questioning me for a second and they should be ashamed of their themselves. I'm always right.
00:28:17
Speaker
Oh my gosh. So humble. God damn. Also, Birdie just absolutely came by and crop dusted me. My goodness. Talks about getting slimed and spiked like a beach. But my name is o but Birdies are cat, by the way. for People who don't know who she is. yeah ah People can arrive from contact. Not to be confused with your bird, Catty.
00:28:39
Speaker
yeah you're Right. or Or our dog, Giraffe. And wait till you find out what our giraffe is. Oh my god. Okay, background topic, please. Okay, so it kind of sounds like um and okay so it kind of sounds like major changes here, of course, is the delay of Taylor knowing about Dinah, ah knowing that they kidnapped Dinah. Because at this point, at this point, and forgive me if I'm wrong with Worm too, but at this point, she's still kind of thinking she wants to be... No, in Worm, she's kind of abandoned the whole hero idea. She's like, I'm just going to be a good person and do it my own way.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah. you Screw the PRT. um And are we kind of going in the same direction here? We're realizing Arms Master's been ah douche the whole time. We haven't changed the at the hospital scene at the end of season one. yeah which ah Some minor little tweaks. I remember i remember talking about that, yeah.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's staying. So Taylor's like disgust with Armsmaster. Disillusioned with the whole hero project. and yeah yeah And Coyle off the bat um in season two would be having that conversation with her. Yeah.
00:29:51
Speaker
about ah what do you want? And she's like, I want you to improve the city. And he's like, how about this? I give you territory and you do it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.
00:30:04
Speaker
yeah okay cool yeah Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like that. I was just trying to remember how it was structured and I'm, I'm, you know, the worm knees just hitting me again where I can't remember where things he though man never never stops. Her meeting the employer, which is like episode three, I think right before. Is that?
00:30:21
Speaker
before after the bank heist i think it's after the bank i so end of episode arc three yeah um we've bumped that all the way to probably the end of episode three or arc three of season two okay um yeah it's kind of after they do i think that's their raid on the prt building yeah right after that so after they yeah that's like episode two i take it back it's like one or two okay it's early on yeah episode one. um It doesn't matter. doesian field It would be revealed. Oh, Hey, let's take a ride. i know what everybody else wants out of this villain team.
00:30:56
Speaker
And they're mostly altruistic reasons as we've kind of gathered. Um, but what do you want? And she's like, I want you to improve the city. I think that PRT is corrupt and terrible. And if I'm going to be with a corrupt and terrible group, I'm going to go with somebody who's actually like can do it.
00:31:11
Speaker
You know? Yeah. Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, that's fine. um i So i think I think delaying the Dinah thing as well is a neat little revelation ah kind of tucked in there as well. Now, like because I think too what that does for Taylor in this rewrite is it she's been working with the villains, kind of justifying it to herself as like, but we're actually doing good things. We're making the city better.
00:31:35
Speaker
Like sure, they're labeled the bad guys, but they're not that bad. And then she finds out, oh, they kidnapped a child. Oh, no. Yeah. Things go downhill. Yeah. And as we talked about earlier, you know, going over all this, you learn about that.
00:31:48
Speaker
What, uh, you know, near, uh, the end of season one. And then while it's on her mind, does not get addressed for a whole other season because they're busy with the slaughterhouse nine so much.
00:32:02
Speaker
And, you know, then you go into season three, finally to deal with that. And i think delaying it, for season just so that we can end the season with like, okay, I've learned about this and I need this.
00:32:15
Speaker
I need to deal with this being the leading question into the next season. yeah Yeah. And you can also build you can build suspicion with Taylor throughout the season. You know, where you getting all these stats and numbers? you know Maybe she spots Dinah in the corner one time at the base. little thing you can You can sprinkle in the doubts and the questions for a season until it finally sort of dawns on her.
00:32:42
Speaker
And she puts two and two together and is yeah just horrified, you know? Yeah, for sure. Also, Barty being the cutest, most curious little kitty. She's like, o Mike?
00:32:56
Speaker
That also, as I'm as i'm saying it out loud, that also does kind of tie into like a secondary theme for season two we have, which is just general ah mystery vibes.
00:33:07
Speaker
And we're doing a lot of that. We've got Detective Coil. We've got Slaughterhouse-Nine going. on Like everything is... well ah Sorry, Weld. I said Coil. So I just want to make sure... Detective Weld. Look, there's a lot of four-letter...
00:33:21
Speaker
words in a series. And Weld and Coils are both metal. Yeah. do like the murder mystery vibes because I think the investigation, you know, because we have that scene in Actual Worm where i do like the the murder mystery vibes because i think you the the investigation you know because we have that scene in actual worm where Weld and team are investigating some murders and the travelers are there as well.
00:33:46
Speaker
Yeah. Which I kind of like that false ending too, where you almost think they catch the travelers at one of the murder sites and they're like, it's been you guys. And we think like maybe it's the audience. Oh no, these are the people Taylor's working with.
00:33:59
Speaker
And then they go, no, this isn't us, you know, kind of yeah implying to somebody worse. So I do like that murder mystery, you know, the false leads and the murder mystery vibes and, ah you know Not finding all the grotesque bodies at once, but like you know spreading those out a bit more. Sprinkling them out little bit around Brockton Bay.
00:34:19
Speaker
Sprinkling. sprang Yeah. i I remember specifically, i don't read Reddit comments anymore because i get my feelings hurt. But even if they're not about me, doesn't matter. i get my feelings hurt. I remember the one that, the reason I i was like, okay, I think I'm done because I was reading back old stuff and someone like went off on Reddit about us having Detective Weld and how they thought that was the dumbest, stupid, they hated it. They just hated it.
00:34:46
Speaker
And all the comments underneath it were like, who do these people think?
00:34:52
Speaker
It makes me so sad. I can't help it. I love Detective Weld. i think I think he's such a Boy Scout. He's so great. i love him to death. I think little Detective Weld with his notebook, like...
00:35:06
Speaker
I'm here for it's my favorite change one of my favorite changes for the screen adaption I love Detective Weld and I know people are going to be upset about it this little blues clues ass notebook that he like flips out and he's like wait a minute he's like crayon he uses a crayon because he can't because his pen would like melt into his hand so he legitimately has a crayon he like looks and he goes Dinah Alcott and everybody's like what are you talking about he's like Dinah Alcott.
00:35:37
Speaker
That's where the numbers are coming from. Nobody else would talk about percentages of things of outcomes like that. They kidnapped a kid and you're like, Whoa, he's right. You know, he's out of line, but he's right.
00:35:48
Speaker
You know? yeah And I think, I think him like looking at a board and going, that's three dead bodies. What do you want to bet that we're about to hear about another three dead bodies?
00:36:00
Speaker
And they're like, what? He's like, look, chains like burn. What not? Yeah. Y'all know who the Slaughterhouse Nine are, right? I love it. like I think so fun. I'll bet you we get two more sets of three.
00:36:12
Speaker
like I mean, it it's that storytelling. like I don't think it's an archetype, but it's like the storytelling method that you have like you know the apprentice, so they're constantly learning something. Or like the detective, it's like they're figuring things out and they're explaining what they've figured out to not just the other people in the cast, but like to us as the viewer. I love that so much. I think that's so much fun.
00:36:34
Speaker
Also, if we have him, which we do for a little bit, have him as the like focus POV character. Like he comes in.
00:36:45
Speaker
yeah And we kind of talk about how smart he is in the helicopter. but he said and and And he does off a lot of the people interaction. But he is.
00:36:57
Speaker
ah you know, he's not only brawn, but he's brains. What a peach. That is something that make makes Weld a really good character in World, is he's like, he's a, you know, a very hero's hero.
00:37:10
Speaker
he doesnt i mean, he's young, so he doesn't have all the, like, nitty gritty stuff down but on paper he's he's really good like he's he's smart he can figure things out and he's like super good with his powers and like coordinating a team of people the one thing that he just wasn't good at was like coming in and kind of like taking everybody's feelings and whatnot into account today Did I, did we talk, i had and I had this idea for the opening scene for Weld.
00:37:38
Speaker
i don't know if we talked about it initially, um but it just makes so much sense in my mind. It's because he's he's flown in, right, from out of town. And the small little change we made is that in Worm, right, and from Boston. He's got a Boston accent, don't forget.
00:37:53
Speaker
He's got a Boston accent. I love that. We did change that he... He's not... He was not present for Leviathan. In in Worm, he was. He's mentioned that he fought with Leviathan.
00:38:07
Speaker
We changed it that he didn't just to make him more distant from the rest of the team. um So he's flown in from Boston. and so ah Opening scene, him flying in, looking out the window. His plane is empty.
00:38:19
Speaker
you know looking over the destruction of Brockton Bay. could see that from his point of view. Lands at an empty airport, ah walking through an empty airport, which, for comedic effect, loud echoing stomps of his giant metal feet throughout an empty airport. Metal detectors go off. love it. Metal detectors go off. completely empty. He gets to the end, like the bad baggage claim, and there's Thomas Calvert with like a little sign, Weld, like waiting for him. but Smiling, like grinning. And then when he shakes his hand, Weld accidentally pulls off his watch because it sticks to him.
00:38:58
Speaker
I love that. Kind of just illustrating his little limitations of his powers. Yeah. I feel like Weld wears gloves. He probably does. it's so it's Look at it. It's a small little plot point. But their plot plot hole.
00:39:10
Speaker
But, yeah you know, whatever reason he didn't wear it on the trip. Just more weld. That's what I, just give me more weld. Yeah. Also in my mind, just to throw it out there, ah just because I'm stuck watching so much Severance right now because it's incredible.
00:39:26
Speaker
But I forget Tramiel Tillman, I think, the actor who plays ah Mr. Milchak. brilliant actor. That's my, that's my coil slash Thomas Calvert in my mind.
00:39:39
Speaker
Um, just has that haunting evil smile. I love him. I love it. Also in my head, the type like, uh, you know, the show was so-and-so, but there is a, like an anime, I think done by the same person who did full metal alchemist about a, uh, human gun. That is a detective, like a noir detective.
00:40:03
Speaker
okay Okay, alright. You got me. i got my hook You did start with anime. I should have yeah Yep, ah No Guns Life. And i um he wears his trench coat.
00:40:15
Speaker
It's a gun that wears a trench coat? Yep. Yep, alright. And that is that is kind of what I imagined the Weld vibe being. Stop. Yeah.
00:40:27
Speaker
Okay, but the art style for some of this is giving me like Saga? This is fantastic. What the heck?
00:40:38
Speaker
Wait, this actually looks really good. Interesting. No guns life. That's great. What the heck? I can tell the art style does the art style is very reminiscent of Full Metal Alchemist, so I can totally see that.
00:40:56
Speaker
Anyways, bringing it back. All right.
00:40:59
Speaker
um yeah Yeah, those are pretty much all the big changes season two. giving We're giving a lot more ah breath to some of our secondary characters just to let them do more.
00:41:11
Speaker
ah Yeah. yeah yeah Grow the world. I like that. and like that They're good characters. um you know Obviously not good people, but... Oh. up I think lost we just lost Michael. We Michael. That's no good.
00:41:25
Speaker
oh Oh, no. We'll just wait here patiently. are you believe the most last I will say we are at 40 minutes and we've only done two seasons.
00:41:37
Speaker
Out of how many again? Five. Okay, thought there were eight, so that's probably five. I'm looking at the time. Season five like no change. Jacob, have some pointless movie facts for no change so all right ah yeah jacob i have some pointless movie facts for you you you hit me, you know I love these.
00:42:01
Speaker
Marty McFly never makes it back to his original timeline in any of the Back to the Future movies and finishes his life in an alternate. Okay, so...
00:42:13
Speaker
This is a bit of a pedestal for me. That is incorrect, although it's a really good fan theory. But he absolutely makes it back to his original timeline because it's a paradox.
00:42:25
Speaker
It's a paradox film. If it was alternate timelines, he would not begin disappearing if the future was not is not correct. So it can't be alternate timelines, which means it's the original timeline, which is a paradox and shouldn't work.
00:42:40
Speaker
But that's the film. So we're going with the what's one timeline. All right. Sigourney Weaver has played basketball in outer space in two different movies involving aliens and neither of them were Space Jam or its sequel.
00:42:56
Speaker
Okay, I mean, ah alien. ah and like What was the other movie? I don't know what i was doing. Avatar. Oh, it's got right. She did play a little basketball in Avatar, didn't she? Yeah, absolutely Avatar. Avatar, yeah. alien an avatar You're going to be that tall, you're going to play basketball. Obviously. Okay, that's right.
00:43:16
Speaker
When What's-His-Face first wakes up and he goes outside, she's playing basketball. I saw that movie way too many times in high school because it was my dad's favorite movie. If you remove all of the Millie Bobby Brown scenes from Kong vs. Godzilla, there is no impact on the movie at all.
00:43:35
Speaker
I believe that. 100%. Yep. That checks out. Oh, no. Another couple others added. um Mary Steenbergen has a tendency to s seduce time travelers.
00:43:50
Speaker
um Jacob, you and I had the same bet. We both text Michael. Yep. At the same time. Mine sent right after I saw yours come in.
00:44:00
Speaker
her funny I don't know who that is, but I'm assuming that she plays the mom in Marty McFly, like the young mom, and then probably also plays like the wife and like the time travel, uh, that's the Kurt Vonnegut movie.
00:44:14
Speaker
I don't know if that's true. I'm just going on vibes. Uh, I'm curious. Um, got one more.
00:44:26
Speaker
um ah got one more ah Oh, no, I've got a couple more in here. ah When Captain America travels to the past by himself to save his life, he completely ignores that the fact that Bucky is being tortured somewhere.
00:44:40
Speaker
or he could have prevented JFK's assassination. I want to say either the Rousseau brothers or somebody else came out and said, no. no no When he went back, he fixed everything. Don't worry.
00:44:54
Speaker
Alternate timeline. I thought it was they was it went back and said he did nothing. He he said, I'm going to die here in this house. um You only live twice as the only James Bond film where 007 never drives a car.
00:45:09
Speaker
Oh, that's a good one. That's fun. Oh, couple extra fun facts watching one of the VFX artists react. The guy who worked on the Astartes 40k fan film.
00:45:22
Speaker
did work on the 40k secret level episode. Oh, good. Good for him. i look He was one of the like choreographers in the credits. Totally deserves it. Nice. nice so i was like i mean it It looked and and felt like it for a lot of the running and stuff like that. was like yeah and michael It had hints hints of him. yeah Oh, no. yeah His internet went out.
00:45:47
Speaker
And then the other one was they're watching um Megalopolis. And at one point in time in the movie, he's like, and like they're doing like they're talking about like phone stuff.
00:46:02
Speaker
Surely there's got to be a phone in this movie. like They're like, yeah, of course, there's got to be one in there. ah was They have QR codes for an auction. and they're like the auction there's no There's no phones in this movie, is there? and it's like No, they have QR codes. There has to be phones.
00:46:16
Speaker
They're like, you're right, you're right. and then it Quick editor's note, there are no phones in that movie. There is like everything about phones. there's like and like But they talk into an old-timey radio at one point in time. like That's the only teller tellular communication you get That's funny.
00:46:37
Speaker
um
00:46:40
Speaker
In the Spanish version of Terminator, he doesn't say hasta la vista, baby. Instead, he says sayonara, baby. yeah That's good.
00:46:51
Speaker
That's a good one
00:47:00
Speaker
In Straight Outta Compton, O'Shea Jackson Jr. plays his father, Ice Cube. At one point in time in the film... Ice Cube and his wife have a baby who was seen on screen, the baby is most likely O'Shea Jackson Jr.
00:47:17
Speaker
um
00:47:21
Speaker
Sir Patrick Stewart, James McAvoy, Sir Ian McKellen, and Michael Fassbender, who all play you know Xavier and Magneto, have also all played in the title role of different movie adaptations of Macbeth.
00:47:33
Speaker
Oh, I did know that one. That's a good one. That's funny.
00:47:40
Speaker
Alright, moving on to Season 3. Season 3. The POV for this would be Taylor, Travelers, obviously, and Weld.
00:47:51
Speaker
So, in this season, ah the big arc here would be unraveling all the conspiracies. um Lisa would be working ah closer with Coyle, almost like his right-hand man,
00:48:11
Speaker
Taylor plots to overthrow Coil. um And ah free Dinah. Piggott is ah compromised by being exposed to ah Regent.
00:48:26
Speaker
um So that's why she's out and Thomas steps in. um Because of this, there's no Mare scene. There's none of that. um We just go straight to Thomas Calvert directly taking over.
00:48:41
Speaker
uh, because that's how the chain of command works. Um, PRT heroes are somewhat divided mostly between the wards and the actual protectorate over, uh, what's going on within the PRT.
00:49:00
Speaker
ah and then weld and the wards discover that Thomas's coil ultimately, ah Dinah is not sent back home until after the echidna fight.
00:49:14
Speaker
and Victoria is now wounded by echidna and burned and whatnot, which is when Amy breaks down and does all of her shtick. um and And Lisa coordinates the reveal of Cauldron with Faultline and Weld's investigations all kind of coming together.
00:49:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:38
Speaker
I realize I went through that really fast, but... Any thoughts? honest it not not not's A few changes, not as many, but actually, looking back over it that I was remembering.
00:49:50
Speaker
so
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, it seems pretty straightforward. We're still dealing with the delayed payoff of Dyna. um But again, I don't necessarily mind that. I think that's fine. um Yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
Yeah, seems cool to me. I didn't really... catch anything I was like oh yeah that was weird Dinah would actually play a big role in the entirety of this because for the first half she would be the impetus for ah Taylor to kind of rescue her and get her out from false control and then the second half she would be using her to defeat Echidna and also kind of succumbing to the temptation of literally just becoming coil again and keeping Dinah around that's right that's right
00:50:41
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah the the we played around a lot with that. ah the The change being really emphasizing Taylor's like, not slip because she doesn't go that far, but that she kind of she has that moment where it becomes really alluring to go full villain. Like, oh man, I could really do everything I wanted to do if I just committed to doing it all the wrong things for the right reasons, you know, um, kind of plant that idea little early on. Also, there's a moment where she turns away from the, you know, dealing with all the bullshit of a case 53s and cauldron being broken out wide for everybody to see where i think it would be.
00:51:33
Speaker
There's a feeling in her where she's like, I could take advantage of this situation. Everybody's broken. if anything, I could probably step up and break the PRT completely and get all, you know, I could do some real damage here. And instead she just chooses like, you know what? No, I'm we're not doing that. That's not the focus. That's not why I got into this about breaking things. It was about fixing things ultimately.
00:51:57
Speaker
Right. Um, and so she takes Dinah home and, you know, does the don't thank me. And Dinah gives her the two pieces of paper. Then, um, cut all ties and I'm sorry.
00:52:11
Speaker
And I think that's like, that is a perfect lead into what Taylor then does in season four.
00:52:20
Speaker
Once again, you're not waiting around because of the format. You're not immediately moving to the next dark and having deal with that. Or like this does where you get it at the end of season two or sorry, not the end of season two.
00:52:34
Speaker
Um, you get it midway through the, and then you just kind of have it lingering in the background for a long time. and kind of yeah yeah yeah it just lingers in the background for a lot as opposed to you end one season with it and then you start the next season which in real time a year would have passed for us so it's a great you know time would have also passed in that world you know of her doing that thinking about it mulling over what does that mean for me what should I do
00:53:05
Speaker
It's worth noting as well, of course, we didn't mention it because it's nothing. We didn't change it. We're leaving it as is. um But season two introduces the end of the world prophecy that sort of serves as the and overarching catalyst for the rest of the story.
00:53:21
Speaker
um Yeah. It's also why they really want to get Jack Slash. I mean, right. Right. And all all that, yeah, all that sort of stays as is. So continuing with that, ah with Dinah leading into the end of season three, ah little bit of revelation on the paper.
00:53:38
Speaker
It's just sort of that final, or not final, but it it brings the that plot element back for the audience. Be like, oh yeah, that's right. Don't forget, world's ending.
00:53:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I like that. I think that makes sense. And I think like with Taylor's obsession over Dinah, which I think is dragged out for too long in the in this original story, I think transferring the obsession with the end of the world, um, starting in season two when she hears that.
00:54:16
Speaker
And then, you know, kind of for a short time is like, we got to get Dinah out of there. We got to like fix this. But ah that really does kick off the obsession is the end of the world and that lasts for, you know, three full seasons, kind of.
00:54:29
Speaker
Especially the last two. That is the laser focus.
00:54:38
Speaker
Yeah, and the only other big change we really had was season three. Like, the biggest one is probably changing Coil's whole plan and the and the mayoral race and the ah fake death and all that kind of stuff.
00:54:52
Speaker
um we We pretty much cut all of that in favor of just simplifying ah coil slash calverts taking over of the PRT, which works a lot more naturally if he's already deputy director.
00:55:05
Speaker
um So he just sort of, and he he's the one that implicates Piggott as being unfit for service due to being, you know, associated with Regent for too long, yada, yada.
00:55:18
Speaker
Got to send her a way to get checked out. I can take over. It just works a little bit simpler and kind of eliminates the whole ah fake out death scene. The only thing, my question with that is,
00:55:32
Speaker
I don't know you said this already. Taylor's deafness comes from the explosion. Oh, yeah. At the mayoral election thing. So if you take it out, is there another way she goes deaf or are we just not having her deaf? You mean blind?
00:55:46
Speaker
Blind. That's what it is. Not deaf. Yeah. um Yes. We still have her getting ambushed. Yeah, we still have the ambush. In all honesty, that is probably something that would need to be revised a bit.
00:55:59
Speaker
um We even put a ton of thought into it. It is a weird element that if your main character is suddenly blind, like, having the story told through their eyes is a little tough.
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah. Not to say you can't do it, because obviously, Daredevil. Yeah. um And other shows that show that ah well, but...
00:56:22
Speaker
um Yeah. I mean, I always really enjoyed that element of the story. did That she realized she's forced to rely on her swarm. So I was just wondering.
00:56:34
Speaker
I want to say it was one of our patrons. It was either someone on Reddit, but I believe it was one of our patrons who yeah had the idea who had the idea to use this ah moment as a way of illustrating more visually how her swarm sense might work.
00:56:53
Speaker
which you could then tie into Gold Morning and utilize the same visuals that you would implement here to everybody else to sort of give a better visual connection to her control over people during Gold Morning.
00:57:08
Speaker
um So it's kind of more of ah of a thought experiment as opposed to like ah a concrete idea. But I do like that. I like being able to have an opportunity to change the way the audience sees her power for a minute.
00:57:22
Speaker
um is kind of fun. It offers some variety to the power. yeah Once again, in retrospect, it would be really fun to just make her permanently blind here.
00:57:37
Speaker
Because for all intents and purposes, just ramping up her, like embracing the power and relying more and more on her power and less... like Because she grows...
00:57:48
Speaker
I mean, even Gollum mentions that she's she's more and more disconnected, not from humanity like Glastig is, but like she's so single-minded in the end of the world and focusing on that, that She just drives everyone else up a wall. She's blind to everything else.
00:58:05
Speaker
Blind everything else. ah straight yeah and and i think i think Symbolism. That would be a Donks. um ah I think that would be... like Not only would that be a really fun writing exercise of like... She already throws bugs on everything. So unless something doesn't have any bugs...
00:58:27
Speaker
like Which would then be a fun problem to write out of of like, oh, all of my bugs are dead, I can't see. um Like, you can have a lot of fun with that. And then ultimately, when she goes full Kepri, like, she could be just essentially sensing through everybody else's senses. so Yeah.
00:58:44
Speaker
Yeah. I think, again, it presents that writing problem that could be interesting, but could also be like, oh wait, this was an important moment she only would have known about if she could have seen it happen. She fucking drives a car for the first time blind. yeah like I don't think riding anything else is going to top that. like yeah Especially when when she, like you know very soon after this, she spends a lot of time essentially blind.
00:59:14
Speaker
When she is with ah the entire time she's in the PRT headquarters after this, she is just sitting there. the entire arc is her sensing through her bugs, everything that's going on.
00:59:26
Speaker
um So like, and I think about multiple instances where that is how she is ah effectively working. is She is, all her senses are going out. She is taking in the information and then relaying it, you know, in some cases, uh, you know, she could send master half this shit. If her range was far enough or she could just sit in a room and yeah. Yeah.
00:59:57
Speaker
The only thing with making her blind forever it is, um if this was live action, it would be,
01:00:11
Speaker
potentially limiting the ah amount of emotion you can convey on your face. If you're, it's just, it's one of your senses and a lot of your be like subconscious communication is in the eyes that it does. It's just a lot to consider.
01:00:31
Speaker
i will say that, um, it, that would mostly only apply. I think if, We saw every literally everything from Taylor's perspective. Right. But if not, so ah my wife and I, we watched a show called In the Dark, which is kind of a, it's an okay show. it It kind of, it's one of those shows that like starts off with a cool premise and kind of drops off at the end. But the main character is blind.
01:00:56
Speaker
um And she stumbles across the body of a friend in an alleyway. And so it's this whole murder mystery thing where she's trying to figure it all out while being blind. It's this really interesting like how she overcomes her limitations.
01:01:11
Speaker
But ah she is's she's a great actress. She does a great job of emoting but without actually like looking at people which is a really fun little detail to notice.
01:01:21
Speaker
um So I think you could still do a lot with Taylor even if she was blind. You would only miss it if it was literally from her perspective, right? Because then she wouldn't get to see facial and you know It'd be more like outlines or vague impressions of what's going on. But you'd probably only want to do that visually every once in a while because otherwise it'd be pretty hard to watch, I think.
01:01:42
Speaker
It would feel very much like Daredevil. But it would be... was going to say it feel very much like Taylor. Taylor already, we know, has a thing where she subconsciously doesn't look at stuff.
01:01:53
Speaker
She already is generally stone cold. True. um Other than getting frustrated, which is a very easy emotion to show. like Her not looking and then maybe turning vaguely in the direction of the person to like look, but not you know like not to look directly at them.
01:02:12
Speaker
And you wouldn't even have to... I don't even think you'd have to like do anything weird with the eyes. like We know she's blind. like We don't have to milky them up. Just have her kind of like not look directly at the person. Look at you know right look in the general direction, not necessarily... you know that is That's such a Taylor... Although... i think that would just enhance Taylor's character to act out of how like creepy alien she is. as Yeah.
01:02:38
Speaker
Because the thing is, she can still see. She's just seeing through her bugs now. So she can't see... facial expressions because she doesn't have bugs sitting on people's faces, but she knows where they are. She knows their body movement. She can sense when their shoulders tense because she's got bugs on them.
01:02:52
Speaker
She knows where they're standing. even the idea of like her not looking directly at people, she can still look directly at somebody. She knows exactly where they are. It's just she can't she just can't read like the facial expression. shes Basically, she's bitch.
01:03:09
Speaker
Except she can tell tone and stuff. Like she's not... Well, yeah. I think it would just, in terms of her movements and her acting, I think it would be really fun.
01:03:22
Speaker
It is fun. It is interesting. I'm not sure I love it, but I don't exactly know why. yeah I think either way, i mean ah either way if you if you kept it in and used that as ah an an extra storytelling thing with Taylor, I think it would work.
01:03:40
Speaker
If you also left it out and you didn't have it, I think that would also be fine. Because in the in the same way, like Taylor uses her bugs to get around anyways. This is just a slightly different variation on that.
01:03:52
Speaker
So like, I think you could very taste yeah you could tastefully just do it for a scene. There's an explosion, whatever they whatever it is rocks her, she loses her sight, she's scared, she doesn't know what she's doing, calms herself down, realizes she can use her swarm, utilizes it. We actually already have that scene.
01:04:14
Speaker
yeah we we we She both does it in the story slightly and we enhanced a little. It's the merchant fight where they are all oh yeah yeah crowd together.
01:04:25
Speaker
yeah There's something i forget if she gets something thrown in her face or whatnot, but she essentially just senses out where the guy is and then busts him in the kneecap. She closes her eyes, right? Because she's like, ah she's too, it's too much. I'm overstimulated. Isn't it like because Labyrinth is there and she's like making the world look wonky and it's like, or or getting vertigo and stuff. Yeah, she's getting vertigo. So instead she just closes her eyes.
01:04:51
Speaker
Is that what it is? you're right I feel like that you're right that might be right. She vibes it out. I know. It's the guy who's like running at her with a broken bottle or a knife. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. yeah um So we have that shown. um Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:05
Speaker
and And this her being blind is one of my favorite like sequences. i've really enjoyed Yeah. that ah the you didn't tell me she was fucking blind is like so good it's a great line it's such a good line that it's that it almost makes up for we're done with that very like relatively quick sequence yeah scapegoat it's scapegoat yeah scapegoat yeah I really love that delivery.
01:05:39
Speaker
really love the whole sequence. I'm actually kind of upset that it ends so early. I thought that was going to be like, oh, she's blind now. ah you know and then the heals are before the end of the arc and you're like, ah, shucks. We'll figure it out. wellll we'll We'll keep it in.
01:05:56
Speaker
and so Let us know in the comments. Yeah. Comments are just going to be full of no detective. Well, yeah I also, a small adjustment here that I think would work with a fault line weld and ah Taylor's plots, both the, like the mystery of cauldron and coil and PRT all coming together would be ultimately that ah number one, we we've said that PRT is quite like cauldron.
01:06:29
Speaker
um but more specifically maybe we could even have that coil ah like it's hinted at that he's not well not directly is kind of influenced by cauldron's economic power and whatnot to like be the experiment of heroes running the city so like what if we just made that a direct connection um where coil just is an agent of cauldron Oh, yeah we had we had talked about that.
01:07:04
Speaker
um and i Part of the reason they would get Dinah is because and the Cauldron wants Dinah to help run numbers. That's why has Yeah.
01:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I remember because I had thought, I had misread it thinking that's what it was. i thought he was an agent of Cauldron. I did too. Yeah. Because they talk about him in regards to like Accord as well. Yeah. like right a Accord yeah isn't an agent of Cauldron, but he is ah essentially buying all the stuff from them and, you know, very in tied into them.
01:07:42
Speaker
and Coil is his friend who he knows was kind of placed by um or set up to succeed by Cauldron, but he is not aware that he was doing Cauldron's plan. Yeah.
01:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. yeah yeah
01:08:07
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah. Fun things you can play with. Season four? Season four. yeah right. POV for this would be Taylor, Dragon, and to Amy.
01:08:19
Speaker
um Big thing in this is that Dragon's point of view would be mainly fighting ah Taylor on one side and then her superiors the entire other time.
01:08:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Defiant would be there, but the way we would see Defiant's character would kind of be from over the shoulder of Dragon and not the other way around.
01:08:43
Speaker
um Piggott is cleared for service and comes back with a vengeance. So no ah Bitch McGee, whatever his name was, that didn't even matter because Tagged?
01:08:55
Speaker
yeah so tag who lasts one more day than Coyle did. yeah b r um The end of the world is talked about a lot more and it becomes the Taylor-Dyna obsession instead of Dyna herself.
01:09:11
Speaker
Dragon convinces Taylor to join her by revealing herself to be a robot at the you know on the rooftop ah reminding her that like she believes in her.
01:09:22
Speaker
She believes that the end of the world is coming. ah you know, Defiant changed. Taylor can change. We can do this together. There is this ultimate goal we can work towards. We just have to cooperate.
01:09:35
Speaker
um And ah we cut down on Taylor's heroing once she's in the PRT and make her closer to what she was doing on loan for Dragon Defiant, where she's kind of like a PRT-directed weapon like Dragon. And not, not too much, but just a little bit.
01:09:59
Speaker
Um, and then Amy, all of her scenes are the prison scenes that we would have had with lung and marquee before, but we also add in a little more glass dig, uh, have them with their little fun discussions and Amy, you know, doing her more of her bitchy soul searching also put together specifically with glass dig and herself.
01:10:22
Speaker
kind of what is going on with passengers and the shards they don't necessarily know what's going on with the entities but they they figure out shards and passengers maybe okay also ah no Cody coming back with the young bond fuck that shit yeah sorry Cody You gone?
01:10:44
Speaker
Oh, that was a small change we didn't touch on, but we did decide that in however want to do the Traveler's flashbacks, ah that um ah ah Trickster just yeah kills Cody at the end there instead of beating Cody. We do a parallel where the team essentially votes we have to get rid of Cody, Trickster kills him.
01:11:06
Speaker
And then at the end, there's essentially they put it to a vote. You know, do we kill... echidna and they they come to the conclusion and then all of them do you know their thing one after another and you know finish her off right all right i did like that yeah uh and then we also i think we also talked about dealing with trickster there as well um oh right because in the Yeah, because he gets away, right? They hunt him down a minute. No, he goes to the bird. He gets away, they catch him really quick, and they send him to the front page. But he's helping Echidna. He is helping Echidna during the fight. And I think having them vote to essentially... Because they even say, you can take him, we don't want him when they walk through the portal.
01:11:53
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Have them vote to kill Echidna the same way that they voted to get rid of Cody. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:03
Speaker
yeah um Cool.
01:12:09
Speaker
Well, sorry. and Yeah, I mean, this one this was fair this one was fairly straightforward as well. We didn't we didn't have too many big changes other than, um yeah, this was more minor changes.
01:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think the reality is, and I think Wildbo's even alluded to this, Taylor's heroine with the PRT and with the wards and everything, that alone could be its own arc and thus its own season even. yeah And so I think that either...
01:12:36
Speaker
you know he would need to throw that in as at least a major arc in a season, if not a whole season, ah to give it sufficient time to breathe and build those relationships. Or, like you guys said, just cut it down to, okay, bare essentials, PRT's using her, she's you know doing good, but maybe not the way she wants to, and her and Dragon kind of have a parallel arc of pushing up against authority, pushing up against that, and I think that that works really well.
01:13:05
Speaker
um As long as we do need to get some golem in there, though. um Yeah. they got They got to go running together. they they't just Make sure that they've got a bunch of scenes together, of course, to set that up. got so that One of the big things here would be that it the further we pull Taylor back, and I think there's good reason to do it, that you could find like a lot of this is, uh, I forgot if I said the arc.
01:13:31
Speaker
and I don't think I didn't say the arc here, but the arc for this is preparing for the end where Taylor's, you know, we open on Taylor looking at cut all ties. I'm sorry.
01:13:43
Speaker
you know, the notes and thinking about them and prepare, you know we have the whole arc of her preparing her team and then she leaves them. And the reason she leaves is because she needs the resources that the PRT has in order to, ah to help stop the end of the world. Like that is the obsessive focus here.
01:14:07
Speaker
Right. And what pisses her off is she goes to help once again. And Piggott is not having it. She's having a, we don't negotiate with terrorists. And Taylor's like,
01:14:18
Speaker
This isn't a negotiation. like Just use me to fight the bad guys. You don't have to go over my people. Or after my people. you know And she's like, nah. like Now that you're here, you know we're going to go after them twice as hard because we know you're not with them.
01:14:34
Speaker
um I have a question. I just realized something. yeah we got We got rid of Tag. yeah So she just murders Alexander?
01:14:47
Speaker
So that would be, uh, I mean, we could get rid of Piggott at this point in time. We put her out just not doing it. Yeah, I think we kept Piggott alive at the end of the day. We did talk about.
01:14:59
Speaker
mean, you can put her in the hospital. I think that's something you guys had mentioned. I i i' i know we did talk about this. I don't remember what was. She doesn't ah need to die like Alexandria does.
01:15:11
Speaker
However, i am in favor of killing her because we've had five. big get We've had four full seasons or ah three and a half full seasons of her.
01:15:22
Speaker
um She's been the antagonist. like No. Yeah, three full and a half seasons. And she's been the antagonist or antagonistic towards our main character for one, two, yeah at two and a half of them.
01:15:38
Speaker
yeah Well, almost three of them because she's only gone for like half of the coil one. So like, She's proven herself to be Amanda Waller. We just, that's why I say we make her a little bit worse.
01:15:51
Speaker
Yeah. um And just like, by the time we get to this, it's been building that she's put up with Taylor's shit for long enough. Like this is the consequences of Taylor's actions.
01:16:04
Speaker
Yeah. And Piggott who we've shown to firebomb a city. Like, is finally dropping the hammer, especially after the PRT is showing to be weak.
01:16:15
Speaker
She's like, we need to put up a strong front. I've called people from the outside. I've called in people that I don't like. I've called in favors. We are putting a stop to this here and now because, like they said, we can't have villains owning a city. Right. And I think if you have it just as a consistent character, like, you can kill her now.
01:16:33
Speaker
Yeah. um You've had three, four seasons of it. Yeah. we I think... grown to love hate her. Yeah. I think because Alexandria's death is in the book off page like it's Like, it happens, but it doesn't happen in the room.
01:16:52
Speaker
But Tag's death is right there. It's literally two feet away from her. Like, I feel like visually that's important for it to happen right there. And so i like the idea of someone in that room with her needs to die.
01:17:08
Speaker
ah yeah More for the story, less about who it is, to be honest. And pig if if it's Piggott, that makes sense. she's Like you said, she's been the antagonist, you know, and it makes sense to to kill her off.
01:17:24
Speaker
I just like the the the visceralness of that scene so much and like having it happen there in the room. yeah But like Taylor is Taylor is passing out and she's setting her bugs in motion. She's white hot anger and like,
01:17:43
Speaker
And doesn't doesn't Tag like try to fight her too in a way? He tries to get up and do stuff. so i think look I think he tries to choke her out or whatnot. He tries to choke her, yeah. Or he like picks her up and slams her down or something. Something yeah and it's something physical.
01:17:59
Speaker
I was going to and it's also fuck with that it shows that Taylor is very intentional in this because it's not... a mass swarm that's biting and stinging everybody because other people are in the room. Like, isn't it Miss Belisha eventually knocks her out?
01:18:14
Speaker
So... um Her lawyer is there and isn't her dad also there? Her dad's there too. Yeah, Danny's there. yeah So it's very much a controlled and targeted attack, which yeah is intent. It's like, that's murder. That's not just like I lost my emotions and the bugs went crazy.
01:18:30
Speaker
Yeah. That's a little premeditation. So... Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I... And what I was going to say with that too is I think having that final physical confrontation with Piggott would be a lot more cathartic than with a random tag.
01:18:45
Speaker
Yeah. or yeah like it's it's a good and It doesn't last day. It's a good ending to her arc, I think, to Piggott's arc in this version of Wyrm, right? Right.
01:18:56
Speaker
right In the real version of Wyrm, I like the way Pigott goes to end up being a supporter of Taylor. But that's only because she was gone for all of this time, right? Like, she's gone when Calvert takes over. She's gone when Tag takes over.
01:19:10
Speaker
She's not in power anymore. And then she's like, you know what, actually? This girl may have had something right. But bringing her back and bringing putting her back in that power seat, I do think I kind of like her. She gets, you know, yeeted up.
01:19:23
Speaker
She gets a conclusion. Yeah, exactly. She doesn't get like a knife thrown up in the air and land in her back in the middle of a are you know in middle of an arc that you know just happens.
01:19:36
Speaker
Is that how she died? She doesn't die there. No, she gets knife in the mayor thing. The mayor. i be stabbed and then That's right. That's right. Yeah. Circus. Yeah, does the whole like she's crawling on the ground. I'm so proud of myself that I am able to pull these names right out of the end. The knife just a little loopy. Yeah.
01:19:56
Speaker
but Love it. Oh my God. I'm trying to think there's anything else specific going on there.
01:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think losing Cody makes sense. It's a small thing, but... Yeah, yeah yeah that's fine. oh it's cool It's cool from the worm story because you're allowed to leave those little seeds in books and then build them up later for little moments like that, but in a show, I think it'd be hard to... Yeah, it'd be so hard to justify.
01:20:23
Speaker
Just let it let it go. then give Give a chance for new characters to shine. Yeah, yeah. A couple, ah one of the scenes I think about with, you know, her heroing sequences, and we talk about it, people are losing morale. Some people actually buy into the end of the world. Others don't. There's the splits and factions between like, cauldron people and PRT people and how they're feeling about, you know, oh, potentially your teammates were cauldron.
01:20:52
Speaker
um That one of the reasons she is sent with a dragon craft and maybe some people, uh, to pick up pretender or whatnot.
01:21:05
Speaker
Uh, if we did that sequence would be that, um, dragon or whoever doesn't trust, uh, the people picking them up, but they do trust Taylor.
01:21:17
Speaker
Um, um yeah because Taylor was part of the group that kind of outed Cauldron and they're like look we don't know who on the inside is bad so we're going to send you in there yeah to be like oh we're testing testing your heroism when in reality we know you'll do what's necessary if there's a mole right yeah I like that um And of course, then she can have the like, she comes back and like, this was a setup. You wanted me to kill like, like one of the PRT like people and do what we did with Piggott all over again, where we like, oh, they were bad. Whoopsie daisy.
01:21:53
Speaker
We had this person who felt like, oh, here I go killing again. and then you could go like, oh man, we really wish they hadn't killed them. But she used to be a villain. That's what they do.
01:22:07
Speaker
Right. Um, you know, but ultimately they get away or whatnot. And, but yeah, you could have her do some sequences like that of like, Hey, can we trust you? Here's an assignment, you know, and, and it's not to be on a team in this case, it would be to just show that like their first assignment, can she follow orders? Can she be, useful as a tool?
01:22:33
Speaker
Yeah. Um, ah Which leads into season five. Season five. Season five. Let's do it. Big two perspectives. Taylor and Theo.
01:22:45
Speaker
yeah um The arc. Doing whatever it takes. um First off. No time skip. We just have progressed over two years. Or however long.
01:22:57
Speaker
We want the end of the world to be imminent to. by the time we get here, none of this, the entire, so you know, first half part of the story takes ah course over like three months. None of that
Season Five Structure and Format Debate
01:23:08
Speaker
bullshit.
01:23:08
Speaker
It is two years by the time we get here. And it is and steady pace of two years, the entire time. Um, you know, every season, six months, if you want to do that, something like that.
01:23:20
Speaker
Um, that works. Yeah. Or, you know, you do the first two or like, Or you just show the passage of time you don't have to be clear about how much time has passed. I'm very okay with ambiguous passage of time. They do day.
01:23:34
Speaker
In my ideal world, I thought about this far too long. um In my ideal world, the entire series is shot at the same time um all at once and then is edited and released forever.
01:23:46
Speaker
appropriately instead of two, three years between seasons. Because for whatever fucking reason, that's the standard now. um And if you were to do it that way, you could release a season every six months and just have it happening in real time.
01:24:00
Speaker
Oh, that would be cool. You could have like and the end of the world introduced in season two. By the time you get to season five, it's like two and a half years later. That's when the end of the world is supposed to happen. You have to have all your funding up front. Yeah. would have Just as as if I win the lottery. Right, of course. yeah And just as a sidebar too, that would be the issue with doing this live action over animation, right? Where it's like... right Because like it's the Stranger Things problem where you've got these child actors who are not children anymore. They grow up. They grow up. And they've spent so much time between seasons, you kind of notice it and you're like, wait a second.
01:24:35
Speaker
Yeah. Teenagers grow fast too. Yeah. Teenagers grow so fast. Like one year. Yeah. And although you could probably get like...
01:24:46
Speaker
You could get somebody in their early 20s to play Taylor as a high schooler, maybe. And like some of the other undersiders, I do feel like that would be a risk, right? Is it's like, ah, yes, these six, you know, you run into like the, what is the famous, like Grease with John Travolta, where it's like, I guess all of these 40-year-old high schoolers. Right.
01:25:11
Speaker
It's like 21 Jump Street. They're clearly yeah shouldn't be in high school and yet... yeah Tell me about the wars. Any of them. any of them So anyways, and i do I do agree with you, Jacob. I dislike that that is for some reason the standard now is so long between seasons. yeah make sense my head it Or they put one season out and then it get cancel gets cancelled. I'm ready.
01:25:36
Speaker
yeah i'm right In my head, it's animated the whole time. Yeah, I think I've always kind of assumed it it would be animated. We've talked about, i think we all agree, I think animation probably makes the most sense for an adaptation.
01:25:50
Speaker
I push for live action simply because it's more fun to think about actors doing the characters. Yeah. And it's a little bit more... It shouldn't be, but the way the world works, it is more prestige do a live action show than animation. It's more easily watched. I know people who would not watch it if it was animated. If you were making the show bring worm to more people, you've got to go live action.
01:26:18
Speaker
That's true. like
Animation vs Live-Action Considerations
01:26:19
Speaker
like I don't know, though. i mean Is it prestige? like I've seen The Flash on The CW. Yeah. Oh, man. yeah In my... real hoy spots and that in In my, like, perfect world of prestige television, this is done by, you know, pick your, you know, oligarch streaming overlord, whoever you want, to invest a billion dollars into it, make it look good.
01:26:43
Speaker
Get your award-winning career. It's Apple. It's Apple. It's 100% Apple. It's got to like Apple or Amazon, right? Yeah. But Amazon is...
01:26:53
Speaker
Amazon is good. Not Amazon. It depends. on like They did so good with Fallout, though. Fallout was really fun. If one of these people pick us up and then they're like, oh, wait, they trashed us. so let's Like, Hulu picks it up and they're like, oh, wait, actually, in episode, you know, whatever, when they were doing recap, they basically trashed. To all of money.
01:27:14
Speaker
to all those with lots of money but i already won I do a CW version of this. I don't give a fuck. And I think a lot people would watch it. like People watch The Flash. You're going to get on board with it. I think that the strength of this show is not the powers.
01:27:32
Speaker
There are some powers that are visually cool, but sure for a lot of them, I think you can kind of, gender and and I don't mean this in like a you don't show it at all, but you can kind of imply the powers because a the the strength of this show the the oh it's they It's the it's the ah face. It's the constipation face means yeah you have powers, right? doing powers.
01:27:56
Speaker
um But i think I think you could do a lot with the ah low budget, ah just cool tricks, and um you all the goofing and laughing. I can't.
01:28:10
Speaker
It's throwing me so off. Basically, it doesn't matter. Even with a low budget, you could make it work, is your point. yes The strength is the characters yeah and their interaction, not the power. It's character-driven. Yes, absolutely. 100%. The strength is that you get both, in my opinion. yeah mean I really, really like that it's such a good story without the powers, and then the powers just make it freaking sweet. Very cool. yeah I don't think for me the Undersiders are a... I was just going to say with a low-budget thing. Sorry.
01:28:43
Speaker
What? but board with a low With a lower budget thing, the scope would be what I think would be difficult, right? um That's where, like... yeah like so i think the Flash, like, season one of The Flash is fine. It's a pretty good show.
01:28:55
Speaker
It's when they tried to get, like, really big plot lines, right? And really big stuff involved. It started to get... Is that writing, though? Or is that, like, budget execution? I think it's kind of all of it. I mean, to be fair, they didn't get many rights from DC to use many of the good characters. Pfft.
01:29:13
Speaker
so That'll cripple you. know And when you're when your only villain is reverse Flash, and so the way you beat reverse Flash is by running faster. And every season, he just has to run a little faster. Gotta go faster.
01:29:26
Speaker
run a little faster. I don't know. All that to say, though, like I think generally... early stuff like in green arrow as well like the first bits of green arrow are really good right narrow it's when they they try to broaden the scope out to be really huge that you end up with like okay something like there was a disconnect hokey budget you know bad cgi uh ah and it just yeah For me, at least, it would take me out of it.
01:29:53
Speaker
And that would be where I'd be concerned with Worm. like like First season, everybody's like, man, this was great up until the Leviathan fight, and then everything fell apart. And that's not where you want it to fall apart, right? yeah right That's why in my head it's animated, but you know, yeah yeah live action is cool too. yeah And then there's a whole bunch of other stuff. You get Fortiche to do it. i'm No objections, you know?
01:30:13
Speaker
yeah yeah Alan, what were you going to say? I was going to say, i don't see the Undersiders being a ah ah so stylized that like into the spider verse like that's not their it's not the world they're in jam um I mean I take it I could see that their team but maybe not the world they're in being that stylized ah I think Fortiche would be stylized enough while still being pretty
01:30:44
Speaker
like gritty, if you will. he has A more darker world. you know i'm i'm I'm going to say i think it could even go like super weird extreme animation. like You could get ah um what's the name of the studio? I've got to find them. Science Saru. They that they did Devilman Crybaby.
01:31:04
Speaker
let's get some Let's get some wacky animation out there. Make it like really unique artistically. i think Why stop there? Get Laika on here. Stop motion the whole thing. It'll look amazing. don't know. superhero story. I am waiting for my stop motion superhero story. I do need it. but yeah hear me out Hear me out.
01:31:26
Speaker
It's animated. It's animated, but every frame is a wood engraving with ink that gets pressed into paper. And so you have like per episode, a million wood engravings that get. mycycl Now let's remember. Five fucking seasons. Jesus.
01:31:47
Speaker
you for Our production team will hate us by the end of season one. ah just watch all in I just watched a video about how Hayao Miyazaki spent three and a half years on four seconds of, uh, of, I forget what film it was.
01:32:01
Speaker
Um, i don't think it was Spirited Away. was one of them for like the a crowd scene and was just like the animators were just weeping when he said it. Yep. It was like, yep, this is good. And all the animators are just like, finally.
01:32:13
Speaker
just Holy crap. Okay. but But you look at those crowd scenes in those movies and they're all so good. Everyone is doing something different. Every yeah person has a different story.
01:32:24
Speaker
Oh, they're amazing. Yeah. wow It's really impressive. Okay. bring it Bring it back. Season five. Season five. We're so
Season Five Plot and Character Development
01:32:31
Speaker
close. five So that's the ah skip. ah so no time skip.
01:32:35
Speaker
Taylor as her ah Slaughterhouse Nine kill squad with dragon's teeth, ah potentially Dinah, maybe Golem, Defiant and Dragon, fuck it, maybe Scrub, who knows.
01:32:50
Speaker
um And they we have the like blacked out Weaver outfit with their dragon's teeth landing in the craft in Killington, and they are here to do two things, and they're all out of bubblegum.
01:33:02
Speaker
yeah
01:33:05
Speaker
Nice. We're here to kill God and save the world and we're all out of world. We're all out of world. That ain't the tagline. Yeah. Nice.
01:33:20
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I think we've hinted at this before. Golem picks up on the like, i you know, i he essentially goes like, I want to request leaving for my team. We don't show this, but like, it's implied like he buys into the end of the world, especially since Jack is so integral to his shtick that he has to be there.
01:33:43
Speaker
ah Dinah, you know, reaches out and is like, hey, I'll essentially play Lisa for you. in this, ah guiding you to, you know, when you need me, give me the call.
01:33:55
Speaker
They'll help you figure out how to, you know, kill him and stop the end of the world because it's getting close. And then, of course, Dragon Defiant being the one that kind of sponsor all of them to do this.
01:34:10
Speaker
um Any notes there? No, I like that. All right, that's cool. ah Instead of the Slaughterhouse 9000, which is a lot of people and very interesting. Uh, we just make them, these are all slaughterhouse nine new recruits that we are encountering.
01:34:29
Speaker
Um, but our house nine has been, you know, uh, recruiting people. And these are the people that they have. And so they're new faces.
01:34:40
Speaker
Uh, but they're not, we can spend time with each one of these without it being an overwhelming number. Um, yeah. Sure.
01:34:51
Speaker
i can't remember if we talked about this last time we recorded because we we did just recap season five last episode. So it's fresh. But I don't remember if we said because you have all these new faces.
01:35:05
Speaker
Are we giving Greyboy like this? No, but he's from Jack's past. Or is he also a new face? We played around with... weed yeah I was going to say, why don't we didn't we we entertained both ideas.
01:35:21
Speaker
um We kind of went with... It would make sense to... if you're going to keep one clone and bring back one clone, it would be Greyboy. like That's who you would do.
01:35:32
Speaker
um You just have to work in how to exposit his connection to Jack. a little bit cleaner. but You could certainly do that. It's not impossible, but it's just another one of those like, hey, it's a complex story. How complex you want it to be?
01:35:48
Speaker
Like that whole thing. um But again, yeah, if there was if there was the one character to do with, it's Greyboy and keep him as the clone. Yeah. We could do ah you know, if we really wanted to do an original Greyboy, Greyboy got caught.
01:36:03
Speaker
The way he got caught is they essentially stuck him in a ball And because he can't see anybody and he can't make ah anything outside of the ball itself, the ball's not going anywhere. His power is essentially useless.
01:36:15
Speaker
He can keep himself alive, but he's just in a metal ball container. And then you just have Bonesaw via hacking, you know, some other again backing some other human people. Bonesaw and Jack break him out.
01:36:32
Speaker
That's the... Yeah, I could see that. I did. ah My idea for that too was instead of doing the 9,000, just have her make one clone of each of the old members. Yeah. um so it could just be like Slaughterhouse-9 Legacy is kind of like their their idea.
01:36:48
Speaker
kind of that. We've got all the Legacy members back. That does sound like the bad spinoff show. Yeah. But no, that works too. do like that. S-9 Legacy. Yeah. ah do like legacy yeah yeah But ah either either way, I think would be fine. I mean, most of those fights happen so quickly. The only other one I forgot about last time when we were doing season five, that is more of an interesting thing and could be changed as Harbinger because Harbinger is the number man.
01:37:20
Speaker
And so having... having har like either I think you'd have to eliminate Harbinger from the list of new faces. Solely because otherwise it would just be confusing.
01:37:33
Speaker
Um, or go with the other idea of like, we have one clone of each of the legacy members and somehow you find out, harp you know, the number man was Harbinger. But again, it's one of those, like, is that such a minute story detail that doesn't really pay off that it's not worth including, right?
01:37:53
Speaker
Uh, Contessa and them already show up to, ah kill some of the, uh, slaughterhouse nine yeah but um you
Final Showdown and Endgame Strategies
01:38:04
Speaker
know they're trying to avoid them you just literally have a moment like jack and like harbinger and they're like whoa he like teleports away and you're like whoa who the fuck is the number man the fuck who's that yeah i do love the idea of those co-workers yeah yeah of the number man fighting like a harbinger clone have you all seen equilibrium with Chris oh you know the the final fight scene it's it's too cheesy but I love it it' to death and they're like the gun combat and it's all like gun katah with the gramaton clerics like that's how I imagine number man fighting with a clone of himself is just like joe does barely dodging bullets just yeah perfectly timed maneuvers time to watch equilibrium again
01:38:52
Speaker
It is always time. but washington such a I have every single fight action sequence from that movie like cut or ripped from a DVD and like put somewhere. I don't think I've actually seen him flying through the door into the dark room.
01:39:07
Speaker
It's firing everywhere. lewis was a ranch thing in my mind. Hannah and I are going to watch this. Will we watch it this week? We'll watch it this week. It's good. To me, Equilibrium is like, christian but it's it's the best of those movies that came post-Matrix that all tried and to be the Matrix. what I'm just kidding. Yeah. ah And Equilibrium got the closest to Touching the Sun, yeah which was...
01:39:33
Speaker
about a 40% of Rotten Tomatoes, but you know.
01:39:37
Speaker
Oh no. might be a little generous actually. don't know what it got. It's still, you know, I still think it's really clever. It's got a bunch of fun stuff. It's good. It's got, it's a really good. But it does feel like a, a, a, a rip off of a lot of other movies, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:55
Speaker
Yeah. he's got a It's got a great cast, though. It does. It's well acted. I feel like it's just it's just fun. It's just fun to watch. like It's a good, no-thinky kind of movie. I promise I did not look this up.
01:40:10
Speaker
I promise. Is it 40%? It has an exact 40%. Nice. I mean, there's one thing Jacob knows. no he's right Not surprised. Although that is the critics. Audiences gave it an 81.
01:40:23
Speaker
So, there you go. and i think yeah it's it it's It's a popcorn movie. yeah know that's great It's great for what it is. It's a popcorn movie that thinks it's Plato's Cave, but it's just a comic anyway book. Anyway, back to Worm.
01:40:41
Speaker
ah Taylor in this does not futz around Teacher of the Yongban or Recruiting the Simurg or any of that. It is straight to the fight it is ah sequence of collecting bodies and throwing them at scion okay
01:41:00
Speaker
yeah yeah we can swing by and grab those people but we are grabbing them we are not having a drag out fight with any of this shit yeah that makes sense i mean there's so much happening that like I mean, I felt like the whole conversation with the teacher was like useless to me.
01:41:18
Speaker
i mean, fuck teacher. So I think I think the thing i would say, remind me if you guys still have the Simurg and Leviathan joining in the fight anyway, or like the other inbringers joining in in the fight.
01:41:30
Speaker
I don't remember if you did not. We didn't, uh, we didn't really put it in there. We didn't, yeah, we didn't really ah discuss it. You certainly could. you couldn't take it or leave it.
01:41:40
Speaker
I think we have them kind of going dormant after Eidolon uh, only, only because i think as an idea, as an idea, if you wanted to put this in there, so we have behemoth killed by Scion, right?
01:41:56
Speaker
Yeah. Um, then in this fight we see Eidolon fighting almost succeeding against Sion but then just seeming like he's about to but then getting obliterated I think an easy way to show that Eidolon was connected to the Endbringers is when he dies you have a flash to the Simurg and the Leviathan and it's like something activates in them when he dies
01:42:27
Speaker
So you flash to them and they kind of turn and then you see them moving towards the fight as well. So it's not so much that, oh, Tattletail figured out that you can control the Simurg if you ask her nicely enough.
01:42:40
Speaker
you know It's more like ah his death triggered something in them that made them want to fight Sion. so we Switch teams, if you will. yeah so but And would be a better explanation instead of us talking ah the entire time about like, oh, Eidolon definitely...
01:42:58
Speaker
was connected, you don't say it, those just turn and we leave it up to the audience that they were connected somehow. and And what I like about that too is that because for Taylor to get to the point where she's willing to mind control everybody, i mean, she's been pushed to the limit already, but I think that having that one last thing of, wow, the Simurg, Leviathan, they're fighting Scion.
01:43:21
Speaker
yeah They're losing. you know yeah like i think that last moment of like, our our gods can't beat this creature, right we need to do something different. I think could be a good way to have that one last, like another like last push over the edge.
01:43:36
Speaker
Plus, I don't know. I like him. like like think we don't we don't introduce Tohu, Bohu, and Kansu. Oh, yeah. I forgot. Those are cut. Yeah, we don't. Oh, did? Yeah, they're yeah they and And I totally get that because I'm like, you know, they're in there so briefly. They're horrifying, sure, but like they're just filler kind of.
01:43:58
Speaker
They kind of are though. but like I feel like most of their attacks are. Yeah, but because at this point we've had the the Leviathan fight, we have the big behemoth fight where he dies and we have the flashbacks with the Simurg and the Travelers.
01:44:12
Speaker
I think bringing the two living ones back would be cool. That's all. Yeah, that's my vibe. I like it. No, that you know what? That works.
01:44:23
Speaker
I'm going to put a note in. Draft two. Try to dress. Glassdig is a little bit more antagonistic towards humanity in this fight.
01:44:39
Speaker
um We talk about her potentially just standing there and watching Eidolon get blown away um and kind of have it more referenced that like, yeah, she is...
01:44:49
Speaker
ah she is a human that happens to be ah the high priestess for Sion. Like, when she's collecting souls, the ultimate goal is, and we never say this, but she's collecting souls and she's either offering them up to Sion or she becomes the new partner and they fly off together because she's collected so many shards.
01:45:12
Speaker
So, um we have her be like very much like, oh, she's she's there. Um... um but she's not necessarily on a human humanity side.
01:45:24
Speaker
and she doesn't do anything until Taylor starts doing her God tier shit and directly is going after, uh, Sion and classic is like, Nope, Nope, I'm not. No, that is a big, that's going to ruin a lot of stuff. So we're going to try and get in your way.
01:45:46
Speaker
and ultimately Taylor takes her over. Um, we have a little, essentially a sub boss. She fights, yeah she goes to fight scion glass to get to the way we have the start of a good fight there.
01:45:59
Speaker
And then she shuts her down and then we have big boy fight. Hmm.
01:46:06
Speaker
Make sense. Yeah. whos Good. Um, yeah. Last change would be the, uh, it is a little bit more ambiguous about humanity working together slash being forced ah during the ultimate God killing incident.
01:46:25
Speaker
um We just kind of leave it ambiguous whether or not Taylor has controlled everybody, including the Tinkers, if they broke out and then, you know, did it themselves.
01:46:36
Speaker
If she lost all of her power and everybody just came together at the end to kill the God, you know to what degree ah did they put themselves in range of her power to, you know, activate and finish him off. But yeah, essentially the killing blow would be left ambiguous as to whether Taylor's ideology of forcing everybody to work together worked or humanity banding together for the greater good works out. Yeah.
01:47:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's good. And then ah leaving the ending with Contessa ambiguous as well. I remember, was it? Yeah. A little bit more ambiguous, maybe.
01:47:20
Speaker
um Yeah. I mean, yeah, I remember since this one's more fresh, I remember generally liking yeah more specific details and thinking it was done well. um I think kind of truncating the fight with Scion, or the timeline with Scion, rather, where it's not so much like okay, we've had a couple of days. He's on a different earth.
01:47:40
Speaker
We're just, you know, i think the truncating it makes sense for a show. ah Just yeah having that big climax in it and it'd be pretty cool. There would be ah growing frustration that we've already had of like people not working together. Yeah. And we would accentuate that not by like having, oh, teachers doing this. Oh, the young biner doing this and showing them, but maybe talking about that, talking about people leaving the fight to go pursue personal vendettas. Ultimately, oh, somebody saint, we'd start off saint screws us over.
01:48:10
Speaker
So like, and dragon who has been ah point of view character from our last thing hurts a lot more. Yeah. Um, with dragon gone. So, uh, dragon's gone. We now have to deal with the consequences of that from the last season we have, or no, uh, from this season.
01:48:30
Speaker
So ah sorry. The first, blurty other yeah fine it's okay. yeah um deal with that. And then we have to deal with the, uh, Las Vegas capes. And
Fan Engagement and Series Impact
01:48:41
Speaker
when we go into,
01:48:44
Speaker
um cauldron, when they're being invaded by the case 53s, we would have Theo take one of the groups at like the, the case 53s. And we would have Taylor and her crew take on the Las Vegas capes. And then they would reconvene down at Eden.
01:49:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:49:09
Speaker
um Yeah, split some of the more mundane stuff up between Theo and Taylor.
01:49:16
Speaker
who Yep. And that's it. and We got it. All the changes. Pretty simple. If you think, you know, yeah I barely have any notes here. Ain't but a thing.
01:49:28
Speaker
We couldn't go through every detail from the whole story. We just covered all the details that we've changed, just in case you're very confused. I know it's at the end of the podcast, but hopefully you got that the whole time.
01:49:41
Speaker
yeah These are the big changes. yeah and i i think I think generally you guys have done a good job with it. um I think we've you know we've given our critiques in you know playing the role of the fans, which is fun.
01:49:55
Speaker
um Yeah. It's been a good and a good journey. You've been better than that. You didn't spit on me. well that's you know Well, Alan, answer of the house. I can if you want, Alan. Alan, if i that's something wow something you're into, Alan.
01:50:11
Speaker
Pinky. No, we've said it many times, but um we know any any sort of discussion like this is bound to split a fan base, especially one as ah passionate as Worm fans tend to be. And loyal. Yeah.
01:50:32
Speaker
Yeah, and loyal. So you're going to have fans that, like any type of adaptation at all, absolutely off the table, not a chance. And we love you. You are respected and valid. This podcast just isn't for you.
01:50:45
Speaker
And I'm sorry. I wish there wish we could. That's fine. um Some people more open to it, but very hesitant. We love you all. And then, of course, you know people that are fully on board with this as well. So you're just you're going to get a range of Opinions and fans. and And we love all of them.
01:51:04
Speaker
They're all valid. We've talked about it before. But the biggest engagement that Wyrm has. I think. Is through its fan fiction community. h Which. yeah yet has the Some of the most bonkers. premise i've ever Premises I've ever heard. In my life. um And. ah you know if you want this is just worm speculation and fan fiction.
01:51:33
Speaker
it is And all adaptations are fan fictions. ah yeah Unless, of course, the original author is doing it. Wild Bo should get involved, obviously. of course. yeah But if you didn't hear me out. is Is not all literature fan fiction at its core, right? yeah that's right think i mean Yeah. It's all just the hero's journey, right? It all goes back to the hero's journey. And somehow Twilight.
01:51:59
Speaker
yeah' twilight I did just rewatch all of those movies like four days ago. So. Yep. Okay. Hear me out. But what if they're like hot.
01:52:11
Speaker
Furry. Oh, no. no you lost me I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, I can't. I'm not a furry person. Sorry. I did watch like an actual a bad joke. there
01:52:24
Speaker
You didn't like the Lion King. I did watch it as a whole, like, talking about um vampires and in modern cinema now because Nosferatu is all the all the rage, which is excellent. and And, like, seriously talking about Twilight being a major player in, like, modern vampire scene and you're like, damn it.
01:52:42
Speaker
It is. You got to talk about it. It is. you had i mean you have to and it it's It's amazing how like wildly influential it was on so many different things, right just culturally.
01:52:53
Speaker
um like Not only how much literature is literally connected to it, um but I actually found out ah that um one of, and going deep nerd for a second, one of Magic the Gathering's favorite places that they visited in the world is a gothic horror plane.
01:53:12
Speaker
And when they were pitching it to the R&D team, one of the things they said was like, you know, it Twilight's pretty popular now. and It's like like, oh, like even it just it goes so deep into our cultural roots ah between like music and books and, you know.
01:53:31
Speaker
Now, yeah romance novels, although I guess people have moved on to hockey players I hear now. Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. Apparently, hockey player romance is the big one. Hockey player romances are huge. I don't know i don't know what cultural footprint that will leave. but ah I mean, think about how big of whole... Reverse harem, let me tell you. That's what it is.
01:53:50
Speaker
It's a reverse harem. ah um Think about how much it's a word. It's just twilight. It's a common word. ah Michael, we'll get out. I'll get you out of here. now It's such a common word, but it because it's in our cultural zeitgeist, like you can't say twilight and not have most people think vampires.
01:54:12
Speaker
yeah after like You can't say marvel without like people assuming that you're not using the word as it's, you know, regular, like, Oh yeah. I'm marveled at something like they're going to assume it's superhero related. Yeah. yeah And you can't hear, I can't hear worm in any context without he's assuming.
01:54:34
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, you know, humans buy wild bow. um Yep. Yeah. Soon the rest of the universe will... I can't hear a Shape of Water without thinking of Sexy Fish. like It's just ingrained in the mind. you know you know it's For me, it's the phrase, let it go, has been ruined. Oh, no.
01:54:53
Speaker
See, I just ruined it for all of you, too. It's not ruined, exactly. It's just cemented in my mind a specific way. Shall we bow on this episode? Please.
01:55:08
Speaker
Put a bow on this season. Put a bow on the season. Put a bow on the series. We're done on the show. There's no more dissecting worm after this. No more dissecting worm. The final dissection is what I named this room that we're in right now.
01:55:22
Speaker
recording like should Just to clarify, well it's because only Alan has read Ward, so ah we can't exactly dissect that which we have not read.
01:55:33
Speaker
ah So it'd be a little hard. Trust me, there's tons to fix. Yeah, maybe it's down the line. yeah maybe maybe afi down the line come back to it. Honestly, our book club could probably and the talk a little bit just about shoring some writing up.
01:55:48
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, sure all that to say, this has been such a fun project. We've all had a blast. I know I can speak for the whole group here when I say that.
01:56:00
Speaker
It's been An absolute delight. We have loved reading all the comments and inputs and critiques and praises and ideas and storyboarding and all this kind of stuff has been has been so, so much fun.
01:56:14
Speaker
um I know off podcast, Alan and I will probably continue to talk about adapting Wyrm in many forms for a while. And who knows? Maybe if you're a patron, you might get some bonus dissecting content in the future.
01:56:28
Speaker
I can't promise it, but I can't can't not promise it. You never know. Patrons get a lot of special things. We can't guarantee what that might be, you know?
01:56:39
Speaker
If you have enjoyed listening to us and you've listened to us for this long, ah consider joining the patron h Patreon. ah bunch of different tiers starting at just a dollar. We got merch. We got bonus content.
01:56:51
Speaker
ah We have a lot of really fun ideas for Beyond Worm here as we move into other Wild Boat stories and sequels and other things. So ah stay tuned for the patrons. It's be a lot of fun.
01:57:05
Speaker
ah Thanks so much to Michael for putting this all together, making us sound good, making us look all nice and pretty. And
Series Reflection and Future Prospects
01:57:11
Speaker
to Nick and Hannah for joining us in these special recaps. It's always fun to hear you guys. Absolutely.
01:57:16
Speaker
You guys' inputs and ideas. And with that, I think ah think we'll give one final to all of you.
01:57:28
Speaker
You're a bunch of worms, so you... Take that, you worms. Hey.
01:57:37
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening. Read along with us at parahumans.wordpress.com. We'd love to hear your thoughts. What did you love? What did you hate? Anything you think we missed, etc., as long as it's kind.
01:58:01
Speaker
you